11: How to Deal with Conversational Narcissists | Feedback Friday

Transcript for How to Deal with Conversational Narcissists | Feedback Friday (Episode 11)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I’m your host, Jordan Harbinger. I’m here with producer Jason DeFillippo, and here on the Jordan Harbinger Show, as much as we love having conversations with our fascinating guests, our primary purpose is to pass along their and our experiences and insights along to you. So in other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations directly with you and that’s what we’re going to do today and every Friday here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us for this at friday@jordanharbinger.com. That’s where you reach our Friday inbox. A lot of people have been emailing me personally, jordan@jordanharbinger.com. I love hearing from you, but if you send me a Feedback Friday question to my personal inbox, then Jolie or Jen or whoever’s just going to forward it to the Feedback Friday inbox and it’s going to end up at the bottom of that list so you’re better off sending your Feedback Friday question to the right inbox. Just saying. I think a lot of people, Jason, are like, “Oh if I send it to him personally, he’ll get back to me personally,” and I can’t do that.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:01] Yeah. And I’ve been getting them on Facebook and Twitter and I’m just like, “Ah guys, friday@jordanharbinger.com, fastest way to get on the show.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:08] Yeah. Otherwise it’s hard for us to keep it straight and you know, we don’t want to incentivize people to send stuff to the wrong place because it kind of makes me think, “Are they just not paying attention or they’re trying to scan the system? They’re trying to cut in line.” And as we said in third grade, “No cuts, no buts, no coconuts.” Did you say that?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:26] No. Never heard that before.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:28] No cuts, no buts, no coconuts is what we used to say. That’s probably just in my school. I doubt that things went viral back then and I’ll think that’s how that worked. Yeah. I’m not sure as always we’ve got some fun ones and some doozies. I can’t wait to dive in. Jason, what is the first thing out of the old mailbag? The new mailbag, not the old one. This is the new one.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:48] Dear Jordan and Jason, I’m a junior at university and I’m taking a semester off for financial reasons. While I’m off, I moved back in with my mom who’s amazing and raised me by herself and she’s glad to have me back home for awhile. I left school to make some more money to keep up with my education and went back to my hometown because my friend said he could hook me up with a great job at his company. It’s a great job and I’d get to work with my friend. Sadly, they haven’t pulled the trigger and hired me yet. I’m running low on cash. I need help making a decision whether to jump ship and get another job or stick with my friend and wait it out. What if I get a job and his company makes an offer? How would that make me look if my friend went out on a limb for me and it took another gig? The other issue is my mom, she’s already got a lot of people in our house and I’m basically squatting out of a suitcase. It’s loud, dirty, and I just don’t fit anywhere and I’m stuck there since I don’t have a job. Do I just stay and suck it up until I go back to school or do I find another place to live? And if I move out, how do I tell my mom the reason. Signed, Unemployed And Restless.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:49] Well this sounds like a little mess for sure. A little bit. Yeah, man. Ugh. All right. So I understand being stuck between these jobs, you’re kind of in limbo, I know what that’s like very, very clearly. I know what that’s like. I would say first things first. Be honest with your friend that you need to know quickly. Time is of the essence. He probably can’t do anything about that, right? He probably can’t go, “All right, look, manager, you better make this off or pretty damn quick because my friend who really needs this job might find something else,” you have no leverage here. You have none. None. So let your friend know that so that he doesn’t look like a Schmo. He can pass that on and say, “Hey look, my friend would love to work here. He’s got these qualifications. I wanted to see if you did the dah, dah, dah because he’s already here and he’s got to get, you know he’s in a logistical situation.”

[00:03:36] People should understand that — whether they care, different story. Also let him know your alternative plans to find another job. If his company can’t come through, he should understand this, I would imagine. And it’s better than him being surprised by this, right? And his manager being surprised by this. If you find another job and your friends company comes through, you should be very careful about burning your new employer by leaving so quickly that could really bite you in the ass later down the line because they’ll know that you dumped them and then you could end up at this new company and your offer could evaporate or you could hate it or you could get canned or laid off or you could love it and you might still regret having done this to your current employer. It’s just really, really bad. Nobody likes to be treated as an option when they’re treating you as a priority.[00:04:29] Whether this is in professional relationships or whether this is an intimate relationship. Nobody likes to be treated like that and it always someone sticking their neck out for you in a job situation so that aside, your home life sounds pretty bad. You need to protect your sanity here and living out of a suitcase. There’s just something about it, Jason, if you don’t have a personal space, you don’t have a place to call home. I’ve been in this situation when travelling abroad where I was kind of with this host family and it was kind of temporary and then there are other exchange student came and he took the room and I was kind of sleeping on the living room but then the grandpa would get up at 4:00 AM so and I couldn’t keep my stuff in there because it was the family room. It was awful.[00:05:13] It was bad for my sleep. It was bad for my sanity and I really felt unsettled and it was a really uncomfortable place to be even for just a few days or a few weeks or however long this was, in my twenties and I didn’t have a job. I was just farting around. So I can imagine how it is if you have a job and you’ve got to be at peak performance and you’re living in a space that’s not your own. It’s just not good. Environment will influence how you eat. Environment will influence how you drink and you think, and you sleep. Self-care here is absolutely critical and if you’ve got a new job and you come in looking like crap or not performing at your top because you are living out of a suitcase and somebody walked in at 4:00 AM and kept you up the rest of the night — you’re not going to do well. And they’re not going to say, “Oh poor guy doesn’t have his own place.” They’re going to go, “This guy’s a loser.” You know, they’re not going to try and make excuses for you. So yes, you should leave and find a place of your own. Even with roommates, you need a place where you can be settled living out of that suitcase, not healthy emotionally and I can’t put my finger on exactly why, but it leaves something in your psyche unsettled in a way that’s just not good for you. Aside from the sleep and all that other stuff.Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:20] You don’t have roots. I’ve been in that situation and you don’t have roots and there’s that insecurity of, “Okay, maybe they’ll change their mind. What am I going to do?” You just don’t have that grounding so you can’t — everything, like you said, it’s uncertain and that will just like wear you down over time because you need certainty. You need to be able to come home at night after a day at work, go in your room, shut the door and relax. But if you’re at the whim of the house, you’ll never get that, you know, that peace and that calm and it’s a really tough feeling to get past, so I totally sympathize with what he’s going through with that and it’s really hard, especially if you have a job, for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:56] The other thing that caught me in this letter was the wording that he used. “How do I tell my mother I don’t want to live with her?” That’s so sick, you’re not telling her that. Don’t tell your mom that. Yeah, that is so not going to give you — that’s not going to work. The wording, the way you’re thinking about this is what’s causing you stress. You’ve got to tell her that you need to live in a place that’s your own home. Don’t make it about her at all. Reinforce that you love her. You think she’s incredible. You’re so grateful that she let you stay with her. You don’t even have to make it about the house. You don’t have to make it about the living arrangement. Make it exclusively about you taking care of yourself. And that’s really important. If you make it about you taking care of yourself, nobody can ever really argue with that and your mom would never argue with that.

[00:07:42] “Oh I need to take care of myself, mom. And it’s just not happening here and I want to go live with Rich.” “Okay, love you honey. Great. Hopefully you’ll be home for dinner a few times a week.” “Sure, I’ll show up for the food.” Right? You don’t make it about her house because you don’t want her to go, “Oh I’m going to tell one of our Airbnb people who’s paying the mortgage they can’t live here anymore because my son needs it.” And then your mom’s in a financial struggle and you’re in a financial struggle. You don’t need to do that. Don’t make it about her. Don’t make it about the house and make it about taking care of yourself. I almost guarantee you, depending on how she rolls, she’s not going to argue with that. All right, next up.Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:17] Hey guys, I just finished listening to the show from February 16th. Jason mentioned that he lied to his dad and his relationship suffered for 10 years as the trust was broken. As a father of a 15-year-old boy, what advice would you give to address lying when you know your son is lying? I want him to know that it’s not right, but I don’t want to have a ruined relationship for 10 years. Jason, what could your dad have done to make the issue less destructive to your relationship? Signed, Lost in Liar Limbo. Okay, so here’s what happened with me and my dad and this is something that I think you should definitely take to heart. Your son’s 15, I was a little bit older, I was about 17 when my thing happened, but I was treated as an adult because at that time I had been moved around and I’d been living with adults for a long time.

[00:09:03] So I was kind of seen as one of the adults. Your son is not an adult. He’s 15 years old. So treat him as a 15-year-old. And what my dad would’ve done to me what you should do to your son is say, “Hey, you lied to me. Let’s clear the air and let’s talk about it.” My dad was, he’s a very cold person. He doesn’t really like, he’s not very emotional. So it kind of just went in the refrigerator for 10 years and we never really talked about it until I got up the, you know, basically the courage to say, “Hey, let’s just clear the air and talk about this.” But if he would come to me and said, “Hey, I’m your father, you lied to me.” And laid down the law and given me a chance to state my case, he could state his case and we can talk it out.[00:09:44] We would’ve had that entire 10 years together. But you need to be the father, not the, you know, kind of pretending to be the older sibling, which is what my dad did and which I know a lot of people’s dads do. As their kids get into their teen years, they see them as, “Oh, they’re almost a man so they can, you know, need to act like a man and be treated like a man.” But as we know, the brain’s not even close to fully developing in the teenage years. You know, it doesn’t fit like finish developing until the early twenties so you still need to treat people like they’re your children and guide them and say, “Look, you lied to me. Let’s work this out and you shouldn’t do this in the future because I’m your father and I want you to talk to me and I’ll be here for you. But if you lie to me, it makes it difficult for me to help you become the man you want to be.” Does that make sense, Jordan?Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:31] It does. Yeah, it does make sense. And I would not have thought of that. So I’m glad that you had a personal experience with that. One thing that comes to mind is this kind of a non-sequitur, but back in the day, and I mean centuries and centuries ago, if not longer, when 15-year-olds had kids and stuff like that. Can you imagine the brain development, I mean, did the brain develop faster? Probably not. Or because we’re talking about evolved behavior and evolution and aging and stuff like that. So the majority of living men at that point were just morons. Like they were 15 years olds, 17 years olds. You know, they grew up faster because they had responsibility but their brains were still like doing dumb crap all the time probably, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:16] Yeah. I bet they had amazing survival skills and they could, you know, milk a cow and you know, farm a field and kill a bear and all that stuff. But emotionally they were just — they were still children. Because the emotional part is the part that really is, you know, what doesn’t get developed till your 20s but yeah, I’m sure that like, you know, the physical skills about going out and live in rough and making a way for your family at 15 back then was fine. But yeah, they probably did. They had no idea how to talk to their wife.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:42] Yeah, of course. No wonder…

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:45] 14 year old wife.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:46] I know, I’m not making excuses for this, but I’m saying, I get why people created all these laws that treated women as sort of like should be seen and not heard because that’s what they were comfortable with, man. They were probably like, “Oh crap, if I have to actually relate to this person on a day in day out, this is going to make my life impossible because now it’s all ready. It’s hard now.” Can you imagine what it must’ve been like back then when you’re like, “Well, you’re 13. It’s about high time you got married and popped out some kids.” I mean you just had no ability to do that.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:17] It’s an interesting thought experiment to think that most of you know, civilized society was, you know, built and written by people who were just completely and utterly immature and you kind of, I guess you can see the ripple effects on where we are today and trying to fix it all now that everybody’s kind of getting growed up.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:35] Oh yeah. My goodness. Well, let’s not go down that, but this is a conversation we should be having with some sort of scientists. This is probably a conversation we should be having with like Yuval Noah Harari who wrote Sapiens or something like that. Yeah, not exactly. Next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:51] Hello Jordan, Do you have any advice on dealing with a someone that’s a conversational narcissist? You know, that person that always diverts the subject back to him or herself, seems to lack interest in anything you have to say or one ups anything that has happened to you, good or bad. I find it extremely draining to spend any amount of time with a person that has this type of attitude. Therefore, I avoid them. But what if it’s a coworker, boss or family member, which you cannot avoid? Do you have any tips on dealing with these types of people? And lastly, would it ever be acceptable to call the person out on his or her behavior? Sincerely, Mr. Anonymous.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:29] Gee, what’s it like to deal with someone like that for a long period of time? Anyway, yeah, I think we’ve all had these people in our lives. Not just conversational narcissist, but narcissists of all kinds, but let’s limit it to conversational narcissism. Calling them out will not work. If they are a real narcissist, they won’t. It won’t work. Because if there are narcissists, they’re thinking, “Yeah, of course we’re talking about me. Why wouldn’t we be?” It’s a good start to call them out, I guess. But look, it won’t work. It can be a good start because then you can figure out if they’re a real narcissist or not. Some people might just go, “Oh crap, I was an only child. I haven’t even thought about the fact that I only talk about myself or I used to be shy and now I’m not. And you’re right. I’m outgoing, but I don’t have any subject matter other than myself because I’m not used to this.” That might be the case. Okay, so —

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:17] You’re also opening the door to keep talking about them even more.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:20] You kind of are. Yeah, feeding the fire on that. You could be or they could get the hint, but that’s unlikely. If you don’t mind them blaming you for feeling bad after you call them out, then go ahead. But oftentimes a real narcissist, they will get angry and they’ll either get angry in a way that’s to your face or more likely passive aggressive BS that you’re dealing with months later because you made them feel bad a long time ago and we dealt with this inside our business for awhile. I mean we saw this a lot in our relationships with certain people because that’s how this functions over time and it can be kind of nasty. It may also just get them to stop talking to you because they might feel awkward after you’ve said something. However, that works for me. I know this is weird, but if I don’t want to deal with someone like that, and I call them out and they go, “You know what?

[00:15:11] Screw you, Jordan. I’m not talking to you anymore.” I feel like that’s problem solved.Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:15] Exactly. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. It’s like, “Oh yup, okay, see you later. Yeah, don’t call me. Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:22] Exactly. The problem is if you have to work together or something like that, you’ve got another problem. But if it’s just somebody you know and then they avoid you, great. But now that I think about it, the only downside is that you might offend them, but if you don’t like them anyway, it solves the problem. No matter what happens. Remember, you can’t change anyone else’s behavior, but what you can do is you can set boundaries for what you’ll put up with. That’s really it. You can’t really — you can’t make them change. You can draw attention to something you wish would change, and that would work if somebody said, “Hey Jordan, you only really talk about yourself.

[00:15:58] That’s the kind of thing where I would go, “Oh crap. Hey Jason, if I go down this, let me know. Hey Jen, if this happens, let me know because so-and-so told me this and yeah, you know, I didn’t want to say anything because we like you, but you only talk about yourself.” That is actually helpful for somebody who’s not a conversational narcissist but just has poor skills, social skills in that area or bad habits. And then they’ll want to change and then they won’t be as embarrassed or there’ll be a little embarrassed, but they can change. If somebody really doesn’t care about other people, they’re just going to move on to another target because they’re going to go, “Uh, Jason doesn’t understand that I’m brilliant. What an idiot. I’m going to go talk to somebody else.” And then you don’t have to deal with them anymore. Really.[00:16:37] They might be nasty to you behind your back, but you know, who cares? People aren’t going to put up with them very long either, so I think this is a problem that can solve itself if you’re willing to sort of draw a little bit of a line in the sand there — the conversational sand.Jason DeFillippo: [00:16:50] But how do they deal with it if it’s a coworker, boss or family member? And you’re stuck in the relationship. That’s really the meat of the question here.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:57] Then I would draw attention to it in a kind way and say, “Hey, you know what? I know you probably don’t do this on purpose, but I noticed that a lot of our conversations center around you and I noticed that it’s happened with other folks too and I was wondering if you noticed that or if you saw that as a problem and if not, maybe you know, maybe it’s just the few of us have noticed,” and but I have a feeling most people are going to be embarrassed. So don’t do this in front of a group.

[00:17:26] Do this privately. I think that probably goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway. Don’t call people out in front of eight people at lunch at work. That’s going to be rude. You just made an enemy. And other people might feel those social awkwardness and they’ll stand up for them even though they agree with you and then you just ruined an opportunity. If you do it privately and you go, “Hey, so I noticed this was happening,” and you can even say something like, “if this is even remotely true for you, I’m not a big liar. But you know, in this case it might help be more palatable. I noticed that I used to do this and what I did, I was turning these people off. And the reason I did it is because I was just inept and didn’t notice.[00:18:07] And you know, I used to be shy. So I talked a lot about myself in the beginning because I didn’t have other subjects and I just didn’t even notice those isolating other people or making it weird. And I wondered if that was coming through in your relationships because I kind of noticed it, but I’m more attuned to it because I used to do it.” Then they might say, “Gee, I didn’t really notice that, but thank you. You know, what should I do about that? Or geez, I am embarrassed.” And you can say, “Don’t be embarrassed. No, everyone loves you. It’s just that I noticed that a lot of times in our conversations it ends up getting turned back to you. And that’s fine. It just comes across like maybe you don’t want to hear about what’s going on in my life or other people’s lives.[00:18:48] And I would hate for other people to think that you don’t, because I feel like you’re a caring person.” If you handle it that way instead of, “God, you’re such a conversational narcissist. Talk about yourself much. Jesus, get out of my face.” That’s going to be a different type of conversation that’s not going to go as well. So you have to give them a way out, right? Oh, I used to do this. And you also have to do it in private and you also have to do it in a way that says, “Hey, I want to help you fix this if you want, but if you don’t want, yeah, maybe it’s just me, right? Because you know it’s not just you.” So let them suffer the consequences in that case. But I think most people want a change.Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:28] Now that works I think for coworkers and family. But what if it’s a boss, somebody who has like, you know, power over you to give you a raise or put you in a really bad position at work. Do you think that same approach would work?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:42] No, because if they turn out to be vindictive or passive aggressive, then you have to deal with that and they, like you said, have power over you and that can become a real problem and that is a big problem in the organization. But do you really want to become the target of that person and no, unfortunately, the truth is there’s all kinds of crap you can read. “Oh, you should file a thing at HR.” No. And the workplace, you are often just stuck dealing with this shit. You just are.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:11] What do you think about some conversational judo? Like every time they start talking about themselves, kind of direct the conversation to something about the upcoming projects or somebody else on the team, or you know, just kind of deflect the conversation to a place where everybody can talk about the same thing instead of them just talking about themselves. What do you think that might be, a strategy?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:30] So this is what I do. I don’t have a boss other than Jen.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:35] You totally have a boss and you’re married. You have a boss for life.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:38] Actually, it’s funny. Basically everyone who works here tells me what to do all day long, which is kind of how it has to be, now that I think about it. But you’re right, you can do, I don’t know if I’ll call a conversational judo — maybe you could — the way that I look at it is, I become an energy vacuum for topics that I don’t care about or that I don’t want to talk about. So if someone says, “Yeah, you know, I blah, blah, blah, this and I blah blah, blah,” that I would just go, I would let them just sort of exhaust it and then instead of saying, “Wow, that’s so interesting, your vacation does look really exciting.” I would go, “Oh yeah, it looks relaxing.” So the Milford case, the manufacturing on the mugs, all of the seams on the inside of the glass are off by a millimeter and they’d go, “Yeah, you know, and my wife, she really had a great time at this thing.

[00:21:25] Now I’m not saying don’t make personal small talk at work, but if somebody just cannot let it go, bear in mind, most people who do this, they’re not conversational narcissists. They’re freakin’ lonely. You know they are, boss or not. Maybe they don’t have anybody else to share this stuff with. Now I tend to just deal with those types of people, but if it’s negative, then I’ll steer it. Does that make sense? So I don’t want to hear somebody complain about their life all day, but if someone just wants to share their vacation with me, fine. Use it as an excuse to connect more deeply with that person. If they’re consistently doing this in a negative way, that’s bad for you. That’s when you need to draw the boundary. I should’ve probably said that earlier.Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:03] Yeah. If they’re coming in to work every day and talking about their bunions, you’re probably don’t want to have to deal with that every day.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:09] Yeah, and look, you’ll be lucky if it’s bunions, but if it’s something where you feel like, “Oh man, I hate working here because every day my boss comes in and talks about how we’re all going to get fired.”

[00:22:19] That sucks. And that’s a time at which you need to go. “Look, man, we can’t deal with this. It’s bad for the team.” And if he goes, “You know what? You’re fired!” You’re better off out of there anyway. I know that’s easy for me to say, but you really are. If you’ve got a leader like that, you really should look at leaving. Most of the time it will not go to that level. Most of the time, this is a friend or a family member that just doesn’t know. They don’t have the social skills to realize that people don’t care about their bunions or their problems or their vacation or this or that. And the other thing ad nauseum. I do want to warn people though that everyone has the right to share stuff. So this really better be somebody who only talks about themselves and not somebody who just wants to share something because they don’t have another outlet.Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:07] This episode is sponsored in part by HostGator. Everybody’s IIa brand nowadays — social media. t basically is impossible unless you’ve got a hell of a budget to get yourself noticed. And since the social media sites come and go, look at Kylie Jenner, man, destroying the Snapchat with a single tweet. Man, scary. So you need a place where you can send people no matter what, no matter what website is popular this week, no matter what you’re building in someone else’s walled garden. And this is why we recommend HostGator’s website builder. You can easily create a professional looking, feature-packed website, and the best part is there’s no coding, there’s no editing, all these little things manually and figuring out why the hell the page keeps trying to translate jordanharbinger.com into Danish. I don’t get it, but yeah, anyway, you can choose from over a hundred mobile friendly templates. Your site’s going to look great on any device — smartphone, tablet, desktop.

[00:23:58] You don’t have to figure out why it’s broken on one and not the other, and they’ve got a ton of add-ons. So you can have the SEO plugin, the PayPal plugin, people can buy stuff on a shopping cart on your website. You also get 99.9 percent uptime. The support team is great. They’re there 24/7 365 and they’re giving us up to 62 percent all of their packages for new users. So go to hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. That’s hostgator.com/jordan and look, I know we have a handful of sponsors here and people maybe they’re like, “Oh, I’ll fast forward through these,” right? In one ear and out the other. Now that we’re rebranding or rebuilding, we’ve really need you guys to use these codes. We really need you guys to check out these products and services. They’re all good. We don’t have sponsors that we don’t like.[00:24:42] That’s the one thing I won’t do. I will sooner skip a meal than have a sponsor that I don’t like. I will sooner cut Jason’s salary than have a sponsor that I don’t like.Jason DeFillippo: [00:24:55] Thanks for that one. I appreciate it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:56] You’re welcome. But the integrity is there, just as Jason’s bank account. If you want to give our sponsors a shot, that would be a huge help to us and them as we rebuild the Jordan Harbinger Show and that’s all I’m going to cram down your throat for now. Actually, I lied. This episode is also sponsored by SmartMouth, and I love this stuff and we’ve riffed on this a ton, but the horrors of bad breath are bad at work and they’re really bad in an intimate situation. Confidence is key. You don’t want to be worried about your breath. You want to have that on luck. You’ve got other things you’ve got to worry about. You’ve got other neuroses to attend to, right? First impressions matter, and people remember bad hygiene or at least is it just me, Jason? When I smell someone who has bad breath, I’m just like, “Oh my God, get me out of here.” I’m not even listening to what they’re saying. I know that sounds terrible.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:38] The funny thing is when you meet that person like at a conference and then you get an email from them later, like after the conference, you can almost smell their bad breath when their email pops up in your inbox.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:47] Right, and you’re just thinking, “Do something about it. Buy some SmartMouth.” Yeah. If you’re working on yourself every day you’re working out, you get a nice car, you get a great job, you’re fun to be around. It reminds me of that scene in Glengarry Glen Ross where he’s like, “Great dead, screw you! Go home and play with your kids.” Right? Yeah. You’re fun to be around. Nice car, great job working out. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got stank mouth, nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to deal with that. It’s embarrassing and it’s caused by volatile sulfur compounds. SmartMouth will eliminate those. Not only does it mintilly destroy bad breath, but it blocks the bacteria from creating the sulfur emissions in your mouth for a full 12 hours. No sulfur gas, no bad breath. So if you want to solve the problem, get the science and find SmartMouth at Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, Target, Amazon, wherever you shop or go to SmartMouth.com to get the scoop.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:35] Hello, so glad you guys are back on the air. Me too.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:39] Me too. Trust me.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:40] I had a question about networking at conferences that might help some of your other listeners. I’m going to a scientific conference this week and want to network with well-educated high level professionals to interview them for a book I’m writing and because I’m interested in how they think. I feel like they will judge me and not want to talk to me because I don’t have high level academic credentials. Just a garden variety Master’s Degree in an obscure, somewhat unrelated field to the theme of the conference. Oh hey, garden variety. Okay, so all right.

Jordan DeFillippo: [00:27:08] Oh geez. What a loser! Oh my goodness.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:12] Scientists can be snooty like that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:15] Yeah, apparently. Geez, I’ve never heard anybody talk like that about themselves. So strange.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:21] You talk a lot on the show about adding value to people’s lives and I genuinely want to do this, but I have no major accomplishments to speak of, haven’t been involved in research, et cetera. I have nothing to offer professionally and can’t think of any reason these scientists would want to associate with me. How can I network when I am in this position? Thanks in advance for your help. Friendly Volunteer With Low Self Esteem.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:45] Yeah, I notice a little self esteem thing. All right, so I’m going to cut past all of the counselor stuff about the self esteem here and just cut right to some practicals. So this is something that I call pre-shaping because it sounds better than stalking on LinkedIn. You can find out — this is such a weird thing but trust me, this works fairly well. So before going into a conference, I taught a bunch of scientists this a long time ago and it just crushed. Before you go to a conference because scientists are kind of snooty. It’s like, “Oh, I just have a Master’s,” or “Oh, I’m in the early stages of my PhD,” and this person’s had a PhD for 15-20 years. They’re the man, you know, I can’t even approach them. They don’t care about me. This you go on LinkedIn, social media. LinkedIn is really the best for scientists I’ve found.

[00:28:28] I don’t know why. I mean, I guess just they’re just more pro. Find out which sports and weird random hobbies you might have in common. So I actually did this with a — this wasn’t a science thing, but it had to do with politics. And I found somebody who is really interested in North Korea and they were giving a talk and I reached out to them beforehand and I said, “Hey, I want to come to your talk on North Korea. I’ve actually been there, have you? I’d love to bring you some of my propaganda posters and stuff like that to check out.” And he went, “Oh my God, I would love to do that.” So of course he’s there giving a talk. There’s hundreds of people there and at the end everyone wants to talk with them. And I just cut up to the front and I said, “Hey, I wanted to let you know I’m Jordan, I’m just going to hang out in the back.[00:29:10] I’ll wait until you’re done with these folks. I did bring some propaganda posters if you want to check him out.” And he went, “Oh good, good, good. Yes. I’ll be done in a minute.” And he finished his conversation and there was a huge line of probably 30 people waiting to talk to them. And he went, “Look, I would love to talk to each and every one of you. Here’s my email address. I do have something I need to attend to.” And he walked right past me. He goes, “Let’s go to my office.” And he just pulled me away from everyone.Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:33] Way to cut the line. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:34] And I was like, I’m not even going to wait in this line. I already have an appointment. You know, I made this appointment on LinkedIn and another couple of the scientists that I was teaching this to a while back, these were students from, I want to say UCLA or something like this.

[00:29:48] They went to their relevant conferences and they had found, I gave them homework in the room and they’re like, “Oh, racquetball. Oh, cool. Underwater basket weaving, whatever.” And they wrote to these professors, these academics, these think tankers, and a lot of them reported later. “Oh yeah.” I scheduled a game of racquetball before his talk. I scheduled a game of squash. I figured out that they wanted to check out the best tacos in the area. Real example. And they made that happen. And these scientists giving talks were more than happy to take a few minutes and get some workout in. And now you’ve got one on one, one hour, two hours with this person in an environment that doesn’t have them going, “Tell me why I should be talking to you for more than five seconds,” right? They’re going, “No, let’s play squash.” They’re not thinking you only have a Master’s Degree.[00:30:38] Why are we associating with each other? You should be taking my class.” They’re thinking, “Great. Best two out of three? You’ve got time?” And the answer is, of course you do because you’re there to meet them, right? So that’s what we call pre-shaping, a.k.a stalking on LinkedIn. Find out which sports, hobbies, activities you have in common. Reach out beforehand, introduce yourself, then find them at the conference, get to know their work, of course, and discuss with them during the activity if you can. And then offer other introductions to people at the conference if they need them. So if you meet one professor who’s giving a talk about North Korea and he doesn’t know the other professor and she’s there for whatever other things, you can offer that introduction. You don’t even have to make it relevant. You can just say, “Hey Professor A, I am actually also meeting with Professor B tomorrow.[00:31:24] Do you know her?” “Mmm, no, actually I don’t.” “Would you like an intro? I don’t know what relevance it would have to your cause. But you know, having a bigger network is always useful.” And often they’ll say, “Yeah, sure, why not? You know, always great to meet the other speakers. Thanks for facilitating that.” Now you’ve got this social capital from having looked up their work from facilitating another intro. They kind of owe you one. They’ll answer your email in theory. And last but not least, this might not be appropriate in this context. This might be more appropriate in another type of context for networking. But I often at conferences will set up outside events. And what I mean by that is I’ll set up an escape room and I’ll invite a handful of people, other speakers — if I’m a speaker — to go and do this, they have to commit.[00:32:09] We ended up doing this fun activity. It ends up lasting an hour. Then we go out for tea afterwards, whatever. It’ll last a little while and it’s a great way to set this up. I also like mini golf because a lot of people will go, “Oh man, what are you going to do tomorrow? The whole day is beginner podcasting or something,” and I’ll go, “Let’s go play me golf.” I found a great place and five or six of us will take our wives, girlfriends, significant others, boyfriends, whatever, and we’ll go play mini golf and that’s something that people haven’t done for years and it’s fun.Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:37] You can’t go wrong with putt-putt.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:39] You can’t. No, and it’s safe. You don’t have to sweat, you don’t need to change the clothes. Nobody’s going to be like, “Oh gosh, I’m not good at this.”

[00:32:47] It’s not beach volleyball, right? You don’t have to worry about your performance, you can totally suck at it and then you’re just spend more time chatting, which is the point anyway. So I have a ton of stuff like that. We can get into more of that later, but I think this is a great way depreciating in the creating of opportunities at the event by creating the opportunity to meet them before the event is going to be key. Do not stand in line with the rest of the chumps. You’re just going to be another schmo with a master’s degree.Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:14] Now I think you might have buried the lead a little bit here because he’s there to do research for his book, which will get them publicity. Is there any way that he can leverage that to really kind of dig into, you know, get the meetings that he needs to get?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:27] Yeah, yeah. You can lead with that, but I would, well, let me rephrase that. You can put that in the second message while you’re talking with them about something they’re interested in, or you can put it in the first message but put it right after their interest because these people may also even still be the kind of people that are getting a ton of attention and they might not even care that you have a book unless you already have a publisher and et cetera. But if you lead with, “Hey, I heard your interest in North Korea. By the way, I’m also writing a book about things that you’re working on.” Now you’ve got a winning combination.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:01] Perfect. One, two, punch.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:04] Yes. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:05] Hey Jordan. I just recently graduated high school. It was a long road, but I did it. I’m a former introvert, but now I come off as fairly extroverted. I don’t like to talk about my past because it’s a very sensitive subject for me. However, I will give some brief details. When I was a child, my mother was an alcoholic. I had a physically abusive stepfather who would regularly beat my mother. I grew up in a ghetto neighborhood. We were homeless for a short while, but my mother got remarried to a great man who I used to consider my true non-biological father. I had problems as a kid. I was violent, hyper diagnosed with ADHD and bipolar. I had formal re-evaluations done years later and it turned out it was a misdiagnosis.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:47] Yeah, because you had a crazy home life, so of course you were acting out. No kidding. My God!

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:52] My mother overdosed me on prescriptions so I would enter a zombie zen-like state most of the time. I’ve spent a year in juvenile detention. We’ve had a few child protective services investigations done on my mother, especially after she went to prison, but nothing ever came out of it. I’ve been to seven different high schools. This is due to me moving around or essentially getting kicked out due to behavioral issues. Long story short, my mother sold my car and I got kicked out of my senior year of high school. I was so close to being homeless, but I had a great friend who let me stay with him for awhile. I now live with my cousin and work full time. I’ve gone through so much self-improvement. Life is great, but I can’t help but just feeling so many mixed emotions thinking of my past. I spent a year trying to get into the Air Force.

[00:35:36] I was working with a special operations recruiter and he gave me his word, he could get me in. I was denied last month because of my juvenile history. I was shattered. I plan on attending college classes this fall. Do you think it’s a bad thing? I withhold information about my past whenever I meet new people. I have a bad habit of telling lies about my childhood to make it sound like I had a normal life. Do you think I should eventually try and reconnect with my family? They’re stable now, but we always seem to have strong opposing views. I didn’t leave on good terms when I was kicked out, but it’s hard having nobody. It left me with nothing and I think it’s going to be very hard to ever forgive them. What’s some advice you’d give me for my freshman year of college? Love the show. Signed, Future Computer Engineer.Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:19] Wow. Holy moly. Okay. So first of all, sorry to hear all this. You don’t need my apology or my sympathy, but I admire you for working so hard on yourself. Future Computer Engineer. Let’s scroll up a minute. Alcoholic parents, abusive stepfather, kicked out of the house, spent a year in juvie, homelessness. I’m speechless. So props from going from homeless to college, just let that sink in for a bit. Be proud of yourself. Damn! Look for the military thing. I’m not sure about this. My gut says, well, I mean, we’re talking about the government, so screw my gut, but something inside me says there’s got to be a way around this for crying out loud. If I were you, I would try to make an appointment with your local Senator or House Representative. I know that sounds impossible. It’s not. I’ve done it.

[00:37:15] I did it when I was in Boy Scouts and Carl Levin hung out with us for like 90 minutes. It was awesome — which reminds me, Carl Leven has been in the Senate for a damn long time because that was so long ago and he’s still there. But you can make an appointment with somebody who’s an aide to that person. A House Representative would probably be easier as well. This might be a huge pain, but they might be really interested in helping you with this. Anyone out there who’s a military recruiter who can help out our boy here. I just refuse to believe that a good person who’s now in college is going to be disqualified entirely because they have a juvenile record. Don’t they seal those things? I don’t know. There’s got to be a way to get them to make an exception to this rule for the circumstances.[00:37:59] Think about how many people who are qualified and this driven want to get in. Why would you deny that? I just, I understand it’s a bureaucracy, but maybe there’s something that can be done anyway. Anyway, worst case, try to go to the military after college. Maybe you can do ROTC in school. They might really want you after you’ve got a degree or maybe you won’t even want to go after that. I don’t know. As for your family, I don’t know, man. Your family has done a lot to get themselves back on their feet, but I don’t get why they haven’t reached out to you. It’s kind of– you’re the son, right? What the hell? Why won’t the parents reach out? What’s your mom doing? It sounds like they seem like they’re rolling around in their own ish right now. You say they’re stable, but how stable is a mother that doesn’t even try to get in touch with her son?[00:38:44] That’s, I don’t know, man. I am not sure. I know you feel alone, but you are not. Your friends are the family that you get to choose. You mentioned a friend let you live with them so you could finish school when your own family kicked you out. I think you might need a few more years of stability so that you can form your own identity as a man before you go back and try to reconnect with the family. Because what I’m worried about here is you reconnect and then they start bringing you into their drama, and then there’s drama in your life and they derail you from what you’re doing now, which is finally getting started in the right direction. You know, you’ve got college, you’ve got all this stuff ahead of you. I don’t know, do you want to throw wild cards in there and say, “Hey, parents who kicked me out of the house, stir the pot a little bit more.”[00:39:31] I mean, you just don’t need the risk. What are they going to do for you? I know that that’s a selfish question, but you’ve got to be a little selfish right now. You’ve got to protect your mind right now. And as for the lies, I get it. Your past is embarrassing to you. But honestly, I think admitting to others and to yourself that you had a crazy past will not push other people away from you. I think it will draw people closer to you. If I had a friend that said, “Hey, by the way, I grew up in this insane, dysfunctional environment and now I’m the person that you know.” I don’t think I’d go, “Oh gee, now I don’t want to hang out with him.” I think I’d be like, “Damn, this person is impressive,” and I’d want to help you a lot more than I might want to help a normal friend who I thought was sliding off the rails a little because I would understand you at a deeper level.[00:40:14] I personally, I really admire where you’ve come from and what you’ve done to recover. I’m proud of you, man. You don’t have anything to lie about. The past is the past. Your future is really bright — so go to college, make tons of friends, study hard, don’t party too much. I mean that and get a part time job to keep you on the straight and narrow because that’ll keep you from partying too much. Focus on the future. You’ve got this, brother. I’m happy for you. I think this is great. I think this is a great start. I’m just worried about him falling off the wagon. Jason.Jason DeFillippo: [00:40:42] I don’t think I’m that worried about it. He seems like he’s got his head screwed on straight.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:46] Yeah, but if you get the people in your life and they’re all kind of all over the place, that’s, I worry about that.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:40:52] Well, he’s dealt with alcoholic mothers and abusive stepfathers in the past. I think he knows the deal. I think he’s a streetwise kid and he’s going to do okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:02] Well, I hope you’re right. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:41:05] Hey Jordan, I feel like I have the perfect life for who I want to be — beautiful, hardworking fiance who keeps the house looking amazing. Her preference, not mine. I’m not writing you from 1955, right?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:16] I was going to say, wow! Okay, we’re going to get some letters on that one. Go ahead.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:41:20] Great job that feels like it might be finally taking off, et cetera, but deep down, I kind of just want to play — get back on Tinder, drink beer, watch TV, et cetera. How do I enjoy embracing my inner grown up and getting fired up for this next chapter of my life? Hopefully one that includes kids, hard work, lots of sleep deprivation, et cetera. Yours, Kicking and Screaming in North Carolina.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:43] I’m going to tell you something I wish people told me before I got married, which was that we all have this. We all I have this. Whenever you look at “settling down,” you’re like, “Oh wait, did I do enough of this dumb thing? Did I do enough sad sacking around with a beer? Did I? I never did build that cool beer pong tables for my…” You know, you have all this and then you think about it and you go, “Eh, I’m good.” And he says, “deep down, I kind of just want to play.” I get that. But here’s what would happen if you did that. Here’s what would happen if you woke up tomorrow and you didn’t have your fiance and you didn’t have a good job. You do like a week of this and you’d go, “What the hell am I doing right now?

[00:42:25] This is too much. I don’t need this anymore.” You’d get it out of your system really fast. So my idea for you, and this is how I handle this, get permission from the wife/ fiance here and there and Jen calls this going to rage. She goes, “Oh, you want to go rage?” She can tell when I’m ready to go rage because I get a little antsy and we get an invite from friends and she’s like, “I don’t really want to go out. I know they’re going to stay out late. Do you want to go rage?’ And I’m like, “yeah.” She’s like, “Okay, I’ll pick you up in the morning or you know in two days or something.” Yeah, spend a weekend with friends, go to Vegas, do it once a quarter, something like that. You’ll be fine. If you’re anything like me, you just want to get this stuff out of your system and it feels like a need.[00:43:04] Like, “Oh I want to do this.” It really isn’t the lifestyle that you want though. You’ve already created the lifestyle that you want, I think, and you’re living it. You just missed the old days and that’s normal. The changes are a little scary because they feel so permanent. They feel so, “Oh my God, I’m getting married. There’s no going back from that. , You know, without a lot of loss and heartache.” So just dip your toes in the water, get a few hangovers. Realize that hangovers now last you three days instead of two hours and realize how much being a bachelor was fun but kind of empty for you. Not for everyone. Sorry Jason. Hey. Yeah, but remind yourself of this every three months by just going to rage. Go out with some other friends who need a guys trip to remind themselves of the same. And I really think that you want to do that before you make some sort of sweeping decision. Like, “I’m not supposed to be married. Sorry, fiance.”Jason DeFillippo: [00:43:54] Yeah. I have a personal story about this. A friend of mine, I was living with a friend of the show, Robert Fogarty, who does our show notes. We had a very good friend who was engaged to a beautiful, very smart woman who he loved to death. And as the date approached, he dumped her.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:13] No! Before the wedding? Oh, snap!

Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:15] Before the wedding. It wasn’t right before that, but it was like about two months before the wedding. Dumped her, moved out, moved into my house because he saw the life that we had and he had that same itch. He’s like, “I just want to sit around and drink beer and hang out with you guys.” This guy would drink a 24-pack of Corrs Light every day. Sat on my couch, farted up my house and missed the best possible life that he could have had because this woman was amazing.

[00:44:44] We all loved her and she was devastated and it was terrible. And to this day, this guy is just basically a nobody. He’s got nothing going on. I mean he really ruined his life by going like, “I just want to — I want to sow my wild oats one more time.” It’s like, “Okay, you can do that one more time, but you just spent 25 years being miserable because you made a really dumb decision.” And it pains me to this day because I mean, yes, we were the three amigos back in the day, but you know what, time to start adulting and move on. And if you want to be with somebody, be with them and get that out of your system. Yeah, go rage. Absolutely go rage. But don’t, just don’t give it all up because you want a little bit of fun here and there.[00:45:31] That’s just stupid. It really is just dumb. And I feel really bad about this guy because he was a friend and he put himself down a well and he realized what he did after it was too late and she wouldn’t take him back. And it’s just like, “Oh man, it just breaks my heart for him all the time.” But yeah, just you’ve got to go for the future. Look forward to those kids. Look for forward to that hard work, that sleep deprivation because it’s not going to last forever and you’re still going to have a great wife who does clean the house for you. Her preference, not yours. We know. So I say enjoy it and go whole hog into the future. Just don’t even think about the past.Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:08] I dig that and I think that your friend probably made that decision based out of fear and so, oh, what a mess. Yeah, there’s a cautionary tale if I’ve ever heard one. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:22] Howdy Jordan and Jason, congrats on the new show! It’s so good to have you both back after your brief hiatus. Amen to that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:27] Hiatus, good word for this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:32] I’ll dive right in is I know you’d like to get to business and hopefully you can throw out a bit of advice for Galloway over here on the East Coast. I’m a 45-year-old executive assistant for a thriving real estate development company. My position is certainly not the most mentally stimulating. I mean, as you can tell from my title, I’m essentially a glorified secretary. It has, however, allowed me to purchase a modest home of my own and though my budget is tight, it enables me to pay my few monthly obligations. I couldn’t ask for a better boss and I have an outstanding retirement plan offered through the company, which let’s face it, a woman my age definitely needs to be thinking about. The dilemma you ask,

[00:47:12] I am miserable for as long as I can remember. I have never known what I want to be when I grow up, but more recently the filling of the sands in my hourglass swiftly running out has become more chronic. What does someone my age do when it’s a bit too late in life to start investigating what you want to be in life? Where does one begin when they have never had a passion to pursue or an inkling of which path to turn down? I’m college educated and even that goal was achieved as an adult at the age of 30, primarily due to the fact that no spark fanned my career fire. I pride myself in the fact that I have always possessed a strong work ethic and I don’t just arbitrarily leave a job without a solid plan in place. I feel sad that the only plan I can see ahead of me is tucking my head down and trudging through my day to day because logically and financially, it makes sense to stay right where I am with no promise of inner fulfillment. Any words of wisdom would make my day. Signed, Middle Aged Woman in Misery.Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:11] Geez. Wow! I mean, “Oh, I’m 45. I’m so old I can’t do anything with my life.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:19] Uhrrm — I’m 46.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:20] Come on, but really, I see this a lot. People think they need to live their dreams. I got to follow my dreams. I got to live my purpose.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:31] Stop looking at Instagram. See inspirational photos and get your head on straight.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:35] So people feel lost. And this isn’t just a millennial thing, right? And a lot of people find that the internet exacerbates this. Social media exacerbates this. I’m not just going to be like, “Turn off Instagram. That’s the problem.” You don’t have to follow your passion in your career. I know it’s countered everything on the internet and all the self-help gurus just, you know, shrank down Alice in Wonderland-style because we just pulled the curtain back on their BS advice.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:49:04] Jordan, are you saying she shouldn’t get a Lambo?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:06] I’m saying you can get a Lambo, if that’s really what you want, but what I am saying is you don’t need to live your dream, bruh. Make a list of skills, make a list of things you want to learn. Take courses in each of those. Volunteer for different things that you find interesting. Volunteer with kids or animals.

[00:49:22] I don’t care. You’ll find tons of hobbies because you’ll also figure out what you don’t want to do. You need to try a ton of new things before you find your thing. So the classes and lists are a great place to start, you know, make a list of these things. Find classes, where they’re taught. Then though, let go of the idea that you have to become an Italian culinary genius just because you like noodles. Or that you have to become a skydiver because you did it once and now it’s your passion and you’re going to become a professional. You do not have to make your hobbies, your job. This is such a 2010 and beyond kind of thing. Have you noticed this, Jason? It’s like when I was younger, you didn’t have to make your hobby, your job, and now it’s like if you don’t, you’re some kind of loser.Jason DeFillippo: [00:50:02] Yeah. It’s just ridiculous.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:05] I mean, look, we did it, but it was an accident.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:50:06] Total accident.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:07] And I’ll tell you, turning your hobby into your job usually just freaking ruins it anyway. It just usually ruins the hobby. Yeah. Not always, but a lot of the time. So give yourself permission to be good at your job, but give yourself permission not to love every minute of it. You can find something else later if you really think you’re a glorified secretary. You know, you can work on other skills, you can build other skills while you’re there.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:50:31] I think she does like your job though. I mean, she says she has a great job and she, you know..

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:34] It sounds like it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:50:35] It gets you through the day. I think she’s just missing that spark is what it sounds like. That other thing that kind of, you know, something to look forward to after work is what I kind of think of it as. It’s like, “What am I going to do when I get home?” Instead of watch TV, have a Swanson, you know, meatloaf dinner and go to bed and eventually die.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:52] Yeah. I would say that a lot of people really put pressure on themselves because they feel like they have to make their hobby, their job. You can find another job later. In the meantime, don’t put that pressure on yourself to find the perfect vocation in line with your daydreams and make it your profession. I’d wager the pressure you’re putting on yourself combined with the false idea that you’re somehow running out of time. You’re 45, unless you want to become a professional athlete or have five kids just relax, dude. I think that’s what’s making you miserable. It’s the pressure. It’s not your circumstances. It’s that you feel like somehow you’re supposed to be different. Your circumstances are supposed to be different and that’s what’s making you feel like crap. So give it a rest. Make the list, take the classes and watch your FOMO — Fear of missing out, which is what I really think this is. Watch that melt away.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:51:43] And in misery. Look, I’m 46, I’m in the same boat as you. You know what I do? I do my job with this guy. We have to talk to you every day, but in the after hours, I do find the things that make me happy. I’m not trying to become the next, you know, Gordon Ramsey. I enjoy cooking, but I find little things — walked my dogs, play with my dogs. There are little things in life that make your life meaningful that you can really enjoy, that will take that little, that itch in the back of your head. I know that itch that you’re talking about because I’ve had it and there comes a point where you just go, life is life. Let’s just kind of go with the flow and find the things that make you happy. And like Jordan said, it will take a little bit of work to find those things if you haven’t been looking for them for a long time.

[00:52:27] But they’re out there. They are totally out there. I never thought that I was going to be a dog person until two years ago and these guys have changed my life completely. Now I have an entire new community that I go hang out with that never was on my radar two years ago and it’s completely changed my life. The little things that you don’t think you’re coming at you, are out there and you just kind of, you know, stick your head out and look every now and again and you’ll find something that will get rid of that and get rid of that FOMO because you’re not missing out. Life is out there. You just got to, you know, go find it.Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:59] That was deep, Jason.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:53:00] You know, I’m usually the shallow end of the pool, but sometimes..

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:06] Surprisingly deep. All right. Recommendation of the week, Darkest Hour. Did you watch this, Jason?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:53:13] Jordan, I recommended it to you. Well, yes, I have seen it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:16] That doesn’t answer the question. All right, so..

Jason DeFillippo: [00:53:18] Of course, as I have seen it. It’s fantastic.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:21] Yeah. This is a Winston Churchill. Is this Netflix? I think so, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:53:24] No, it’s not. Actually, you had to go to Sweden to get this because it is in Academy Screener. I saw it because I have friends in the Academy. You saw it because you’re a criminal. Right? But yes, it is a fantastic movie.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:36] Yes. Don’t talk to me about copyright. I’m creating stuff for free for everybody. That’s my moral license to steal it. Maybe I bought it. You never know. This movie parallels what pressure feels like for us a little bit now in a way that was just 10,000 times worse. It was so humbling and so inspiring to see what England and Churchill were going through and it was just, Oh, man! Jason, when he’s on the phone with the American president and the president’s like, “Yeah, we’re not sending the ships. Sorry.” And he’s just, “Do you have any horses? Do you have any horses?” Yeah. And he’s just thinking, I have 60,000 men and we’re going to die on a beach. What do you mean you’re not sending the fuel or whatever it is? It’s the one thing I will say though, damn, it’s hard to understand what the heck he was saying.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:54:21] Here’s the deal with that though, it doesn’t matter because that’s Gary Oldman playing Winston Churchill and when you’re watching it, if you’re a Gary Oldman fan like I am from the early days, and you watch him playing Churchill, you’re just– I’m getting goosebumps right now. Literally the hair on my arm is standing up just thinking about this movie because it was so damn good. But watching him play that part. “Yes, he knows the on the bases, on the land, on the landing strips.” You know, he gets full Churchill into it, but it is hard to understand sometimes, but that’s why they made subtitles.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:52] Yeah, I would say it sounds like that only it’s way less intelligible than what you just did, but anyway, the movie’s great. It’s not available on Netflix.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:55:00] It’s not available yet. There’ll be out on Blu-ray very soon.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:02] Yes. If you’re into that sort of thing and if you’re not, you can go to Sweden if you know what we’re saying. I hope you all enjoy that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don’t forget, you can email us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Notice the address change. No longer at The Art of Charm. Delete any contact you had for me, Jason, Friday, anything at Art of Charm. We had nothing to do with that one. We’re never going to see it, but if you email us at jordanharbinger.com, we’ll get your questions answered on the air. We’re happy to keep you anonymous of course. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com/podcast. Quick shout outs to Mark and Stephanie. They were these sweet old couple that lent us their place for Airbnb when I was in L.A. and they said, “What do you do?”

[00:55:46] And I said, “Oh, well, do you know what a podcast is?” And he goes, “Do I look that old? Of course I know what a podcast is.” And I said — all right, well you know he probably listens to Planet Money or something — I said, “Well I host this one, and, you know, it’s this new show and I used to host this other show.” And he goes, “Oh, I listen to the Jordan Harbinger Show.” And I said, “Are you kidding?” And I thought he was just being nice. And he goes, “Yeah, I just heard the one that you did about the nutrition with the Bread Head guy.” And I thought, “Wow, okay, you actually listen to the show,” which is pretty cool. So I want to give them a shout out. I couldn’t believe it. I mean, imagine, I used to have to explain to people what podcasts were and now I run an Airbnb in a new town and the dude is a fan, it’s unbelievable.[00:56:24] So awesome. And I also want to thank everyone from the old show who came to find us here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. Loads of support coming in from email to Instagram to Twitter. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. We got a long road ahead of us to rebuild the audience. We’re already about 10 percent of the way there. We really need you to help share, but it’s really cool to see the support come in and we read everything. I share it with the team. It’s really keeping us going right now. It’s really, really keeping us going. So thank you. I’m on Instagram and Twitter, @jordanharbinger. It’s a great way to engage with me and share some support or ask questions. Jason, you’re on the socials.Jason DeFillippo: [00:57:03] I am on the socials. I’m on Instagram, @JPD. And as always, you can check out my other podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks. We are on every podcast player you can possibly find or go to gog.show to find out mo'.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:14] All right, keep sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com and we’ll see you next time.