146: How to Make Introductions Without Getting Burned | Feedback Friday

Transcript for How to Make Introductions Without Getting Burned - Feedback Friday (Episode 146)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday, I'm your host Jordan harbinger and I'm here with producer Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger Show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests and this week we had Shawn Achor, one of the world's foremost happiness researchers, which I thought was a bit silly until I started getting into his books. Him and I talk about how we achieve more with certain types of cooperation. We also discussed the actual science behind how we are better together and how by bringing others upward. We do the same for ourselves and we talked with Philip McKernan about finding alignment with the work that we do and why it's so important to know why we do what we do. Phil is an interesting guy who I've been friends with for a while and his message resonates really well with a ton of people, so I'm curious what you all think of it.

[00:00:43] Of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guests and our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of this show is to have conversations directly with you and that's what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Try to keep them concise if you can. It really does increase the chance that your question will get answered on the air. And I'm in London right now enjoying a little bit of cold weather and reshooting a lot of video. I'm actually taking a class, which I'd love to tell you guys about later on, which is a some military intelligence agency type of stuff. Had to go to the UK for it, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Kind of cool with a friend of mine and had some pretty exciting meetings. And also I'm reshooting our Six-Minute Networking course, which is pretty cool and exciting. So there's a lot of good stuff coming out of this trip as well, including some other surprises, which I can't wait to show and tell you guys all about. Jason, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:42] Dear Jordan and Jason, for the last decade I've worked in nonprofit marketing. I've been successful in my field and still enjoy it a great deal. However, recently I've decided that in my mid-thirties I'm ready to pursue new challenges and marketing in the healthcare sector. I've been told that the longer I wait to make a change, the more difficult it will be to land a job. While I'm confident my marketing skills will translate well to other industries, I'm finding that it's tough to get an interview without having healthcare industry experience. I have a great professional network, but most of it is concentrated in my current field. What advice do you have for someone trying to transition into a new industry after a long time in their current one? I would greatly appreciate any advice you have to offer. Thanks for everything you do. Sincerely, Need To Get My Foot In The Door.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:27] All right, so this is a really important question and this is why we always dig the well before we get thirsty and focus on growing broad as well as deep network ties. So broad is maybe, for example, me knowing people that work in the movie industry and the publicity industry and are also in manufacturing and also photography, that kind of stuff. So outside my industry, totally random seeming connections deep is me knowing every big podcaster, me knowing tons of broadcasters, me knowing how digital marketing works and the experts in that field so that's deep. Deep as your own industry or right adjacent, properly adjacent industries and broad is the seemingly random nodes that keep a network really diverse. So what I would say for you is you need to develop both broad and deep networks and that's crucial.

[00:03:21] Of course, we talk about that as well in Six-Minute Networking. What I would do first is I would do the layoff lifelines exercise. I recommend this a lot. It's in Six-Minute Networking, it's at jordanharbinger.com/course. Essentially what this exercise is in a nutshell is making a list of these relationships that you've lost touch with. So old bosses, old professors, maybe 10, 14 people that you would call now if you got laid off and then re-engaging those people right now before you need something, before you have something on your agenda and you know that's why it's awkward to reach out into the details are in Six-Minute Networking. I would also do the text re-engage drill every single day. It takes four minutes. That's also outlined in Six-Minute Networking. Re-engaging these weaker or dormant ties and doing layoff lifelines will help re-engage some of your connections that were maybe left to rot a little bit, and then more importantly, I would do informational interviews with someone in the industry, ideally via your network. If not, try your luck on LinkedIn.

[00:04:16] Here's how this process works. This is essentially the a secret tool that everyone should have in their back pocket. It's a hybrid of info gathering, maybe a little intelligence networking opportunities and partially maybe a job interview and it can give you or anyone looking for a job or pondering your career change a really good scoop on what you need to get your foot in the door. And of course, these opportunities, like informational interviews, they're not something you sign up for. They require a little bit of work on your end to make it happen, and in most cases, you're convincing a total stranger why they need to take time out of their day to help you in exchange for basically nothing. The good news is it's not as hard as it sounds. So start by making a list of companies you'd like to work at, make a list of job titles or positions you'd be interested in, people who fit on either list, the position, the job title, the company, whatever is good.

[00:05:08] Somebody who works for your dream company and has your dream role, that's where you're going to get the most bang for your buck though. And it's important to consider what the person does at the company and the size of the company. So you want to target people who are in, let's say an aspirational role, but aren't so high up the food chain that they're never going to have time to meet with you. If I want to talk to the CMO of a major company, I can probably learn more talking to the marketing director of a smaller company rather than chasing a CMO for two straight years to get a five minute meeting or a phone call from the secretary that says, “What the hell do you want?”

[0:05:44] Also look for people who you have some sort of connection with if possible. If someone went to your college, you've got a shared connection, mutual friend, they're much more likely to want to meet with you. You can find these people on LinkedIn, if they don't respond there, try something like Email Hunter and we can link to that in the show notes, to get their direct email because it might get a better response, not look like LinkedIn spam. And then you phrase the ask in a way that lets them know you're not asking for a ton of time or for them to go out of their way. So example, I would say something like, “I'd love to buy you a quick coffee at or near your office anytime to ask about how you got your role and hear your perspective on the industry and what it's like to work in your company.” You do not say, I'm looking for a job. You do not say, I need help getting -- in my foot in the door, you don't say any of this. You personalize it for them. You make it as convenient for them as possible. And the quick coffee is important because then they're not like, “Oh crap, I've got to go out to lunch with this weirdo. It's going to take three hours.” You're like, “Look, I'll do it in your office so that you can leave 15 minutes later if you're bored or tired or don't care.”

[00:06:47] And when you reach out, obviously personalize it, not just with their name, but something about them specifically, such as I'm also an Indian female and I'd love to connect with you because I feel like I'm sometimes operating in a man's world here. I'd love to get your perspective on this. And you cap the time. You can say something like, “I can only imagine how busy you must get. So even 15 to 20 minutes would be super appreciated.” That lets them know this isn't going to take long. You didn't send this to 85 people. You require my perspective personally, which makes it much more likely that they're going to respond and again, make sure you don't seem like you're asking for a job. Even if you kind of sort of maybe are, if you sound like you're really just looking for a job, they will either push you to HR as well they should, or to the company's career pages or some other BS. Make it really clear that you want to talk to this person to learn about his or her career history and their perspective on the job or the industry and after you meet and make a great impression, then you can say, “Yeah, I'm looking for a job in this area. Obviously I don't expect to get one from you. I really appreciate any leads you might have, however, et cetera, et cetera.” This process seems intimidating. It really is not. Most people like helping others, they really never get asked to do this sort of thing generally. And so if you do it right, let me know how it goes because I have a feeling this is going to yield some pretty good results for you and that goes for everyone else as well. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:10] Dear Jordan and team, what's been a fantastic and supportive relationship over the years, we've been together for seven years, married for three, has seen a slight change in going out with my partner for events. I started to notice a few years ago when we had a year of a lot of weddings to attend where we would dress up, enjoy the dinner and the music, then start getting to the point where the nights over for most people. I want to go home, but my partner was to shut the party down. What typically happens in these situations is my partner starts actively avoiding me by doing things like going to talk to friends at the opposite side of the room and when I try to ask to get a gauge on when she'll want to go, I never get an exact time, but in my head I know it means we're not going until they shut the lights off and locked the door.

[00:08:52] The issue is more pressing now as we have an 11 month old baby home and have only tried an overnight babysitter a couple of times so we can go out. Going out, let alone together is an extremely rare event. This last event we attended was a dress up event with expensive tickets. In my head, this was a date night out with my partner. We attended the event and ran into some friends who invited us out after. As expected, we ended up out at the event followed by an after party for about seven and a half hours total. It around 1 a.m, I made the move of, “Okay, tonight's been fun. Maybe we should go home.” Once again, I was met with, “No, I think I'm going to stay out and you can go home.” I ended up walking home alone reflecting probably too much on what this all means. At some point in the night it goes from a date night and turns into just a group hang with friends where we are no longer out as a couple. Am I crazy to think that some of these events I would go with my partner and come home with my partner. Signed, Am I The Wet Blanket?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:48] So Wet Blanket, she's at home with the baby a lot I think, that's what it sounds like and she's possibly starving for social interaction and adult conversation instead of baby talk and dirty diapers all day. So I have a little bit of sympathy here for her. And when I got married, when Jen and I got married, and Jason, you were there. I don't know if you were there for this part or if you were outside or inside, but a close friend of ours, his wife, who also had, I think at the time, three kids that were all little. She had I think two drinks, but she was just lit.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:20] Oh, she was totally lit. I was there for that. Oh yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:23] Yeah. And she was like dancing and jumping around and playing with the sparklers and waving them around like running barefoot and it was funny. And she was -- he was a little embarrassed, but he's like, look, she's, you know she's on my -- and we're all friends. So it kind of was just like, it didn't matter too much. It was --

Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:42] And she was having a great time, it wasn’t a sloppy drunk.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:44] She was having a freaking blast. Yeah, she was having a blast and she wasn't hurting anyone basically, and that's kind of what I wanted for my wedding anyways. And so the whole thing, and everyone was like, “Oh my gosh.” And all of the older parents and women were like, “No, I totally get it.” She never gets out of the house. She never drinks. She's always responsible. She's got three little kids. She's at a party with a babysitter that goes until midnight, like let her do her thing.

And I was just like, “Yeah, true story.” So I totally get her wanting to shut it down because maybe she gets to go out once a month and she's naturally pretty social and needs this, you know, maybe you're an introvert and she's an extrovert. I don't know. So I get it, I do. But there could be a deeper question here, a deeper issue here. You should ask her if she's happy, maybe you need a therapist for this type of thing to get some of these issues out in the open. Maybe she really wants more social interaction and isn't getting it and striving a little bit of a wedge. She knows you want to go because she's avoiding you, you mentioned that. It's very possible that she really needs this social interaction. It doesn't have to mean something deeper about your relationship or marriage, but it might. So you might want to just ask her and out what's going on.

[00:11:54] And here's the thing, you can go home alone. I get it. Date night is great, but maybe she wants some friends too. And Jen goes home without me all the time, she'll fall asleep at a friend's house and go sleep in the bedroom or she'll take off and go home and took me up the next day. If I crash on a couch, it's all good. Nobody judges. The only time this becomes a problem is if there's more to the story that hasn't been uncovered yet, so it's time for a talk. But I wouldn't draw any sort of conclusions from her behavior just yet. She might just be a mom that needs more social interaction to feel like she's still has a life and I get it, and I don't even have kids yet, and I get it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:32] Yeah. And I mean so go back to the story with your friend at the wedding. She was surrounded by friends just having fun, and I think that's what's going on with Wet Blanket here is they go out, his wife is surrounded by her friends and she just wants to cut loose. I think that there isn't more of a story here that she's just like probably got cabin fever and wants to get out, but yeah, have that talk but don't make it oppressive. Don't put pressure on her to do it because then there might be a problem after that is what I'm thinking. Just don't make a problem when there might not be one and just if she wants to go out and cut loose, go home and hang out with the kid. That's really, I think the crux of the story.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:09] Yeah, so I'd be concerned, if it was like, “Yeah, she gets super drunk and I have to carry her home every time we go out,” then I'd be like, “Oh man.” Or like, “Yeah, she keeps drinking and like she hangs out with all these other people who are just drinking.” I'd be like, “Oh my gosh!” If she's just talking with friends until late and you're tired, there's really not a big problem here.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:27] Yeah. He doesn't mention her drinking or anything like that at all in here, so I don't think that really is an issue. I think she's starved for social interaction.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:34] Me too. Me too. And I totally get it. I totally get it. I can imagine what -- I'm an introvert and I can imagine what it would be like if I was like watching Sesame Street all day and changing diapers and then doing laundry and then I would go nuts and so I get why, I get why she might as well.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:56] This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.

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[00:15:58] Look, it's a New Year in a new you, why not get a new website. Hostgator.com/jordan. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit Jordan harbinger.com/deals, and if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review on iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It helps us out and builds the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.

[00:16:26] Hi Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I'm 23, and a year and a half into my career and making my way in Chicago. Jason, we miss you. GOG gets me through my commutes. Thank you very much. That's very nice of you and we miss you too. Go get some pot bellies for me. In 2017, I graduated from a top university and already had a career lined up with one of the big four firms in my field of accounting. A year and a half in, I'm pretty sure I studied the wrong thing in college and I don't see myself in accounting in the future. I got into this career by following a path of least resistance of sorts and didn't really need to hustle to get this job. This terrifies me. I incurred loads of debt to obtain this degree, which more or less effortlessly let me obtain a good job with good but not great pay. I'd always done well in accounting class, held treasurer and CFO roles in various clubs and nonprofits and it received stellar reviews at work. I'm greatly unmotivated, burnt out in generally disinterested in my current job.

There are many days where I might not have an in person conversation at the office because I just need to grind through producing work. In the office, it's more or less silent except for the click of keyboards basically my nightmare.

[00:17:31] Furthermore, I haven't meshed great with the culture at the firm or the office, outside strong relationships with my colleagues on my immediate teams. I don't have a great network at the firm and don't love being one of thousands in an office where nobody knows each other. I know that I want to have a career that is more focused on relationships, communication, ideas and creativity, but don't know where to begin, who to have conversations with, what skills to develop or where to even begin thinking of what I might want to do. My options are somewhat limited is I have a debt load, but I also would probably be uninterested in something that pays less. I'm hoping to get some advice on where I can start looking and what I can start doing to make a smart and effective career transition. I know you were able to do this and move out of a law firm and I would like your thoughts on this. Furthermore, if I don't see myself as an accountant in the future, should I worry about pursuing the proper licenses and verification, for example, a CPA? Thank you for your advice and continuing the show. PS, I have a decent network. I have a system that records when I contact people and have guidelines on how often and how I want to contact people in my network so that well is constantly being dug. A combination of letters, texts, phone calls and in-person coffee and dinner funneled through a systematic approach has been a great way to develop and maintain my network. I want to thank you for always recommending to dig the well first. I hope that it will serve me well in the future. All the best, No More Spreadsheets.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:53] I'm so glad to hear you're putting the Six-Minute Networking stuff into practice and I'm really glad to hear you have systems that actually track their connections. That's where a lot of people leave off. They're like, “I don't need this,” and then by the time they do, they're like, “Oh, I don't want to put a thousand people into a database.” That will really pay dividends in the future, that's why I'm so big on it. And my new annoying catchphrase for 2019 is going to be something like your network is the compound interest of interpersonal relationships. I'm still working on that.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:20] Let's workshop that one over.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:21] Yeah, we might need to do that. Since you have debt, you should keep this job for a minute. You should also stay for another year or so because you don't want to have a problem with your resume. Keeping a job, and I know that there's been some advice online about this like, “Hey, if you don't love your job. Quit.” That's so stupid. Don't do that. I know these online influencer guys are telling you to do that. Don't listen to them. They don't have real jobs. Most of them don't even have the success, they purport to have online. If you keep a job, especially your first job for less than two to three years, that is a huge red flag. You may not like the work, that's fine for now. In your early 20s contrary to the loan of your seen on Instagram. You're not looking for purpose and deeper meaning in everything that you do for work. You're looking for skills and the opportunity to demonstrate that you can excel in a corporate environment without dropping the ball, getting fired, whatever. In the meantime, you should explore some other ideas of what you'd like to do. Ideas come from the following. One, volunteering. Nothing helps us find purpose better frankly than helping others and doing something that actually makes a difference. You may find that doing this helps make the rest of your day as much more tolerable because you're putting some of your energy towards something that is meaningful.

[00:20:33] You can also have a side hustle. We've talked about these on the show before. You can work five to 10 hours a week on something you want to do and scale it up from there. And three, other careers. Yeah, you can see what other people you know are doing, what other folks you've heard about are doing and you can even explore jobs or careers to see if they even exist in the first place. And once you start exploring these ideas, take the tactics from the informational interview piece we just discussed earlier and get to work. The good thing is since you're not in a rush here, again, you should keep your current position for at least another year or so. You've got tons of time to figure out what you want to do while building the skillset of working for a corporation, gaining experience and proving yourself and to others, frankly, that you're up to the task.

[00:21:18] Also, you're early enough to build other skills outside of work that make you more competitive for the rules you may want in the future. For example, if you find that you'd rather work overseas somewhere, or for companies that do a lot of business with let's say, Chinese manufacturing, you can start making headway on that language and culture, which gives you a leg up when it comes time to interview for those roles, and in the end it's all good. You're so early in your career, you're learning a ton just by having a corporate gig at all. Even if what you're learning is that you hate it. You hate accounting, you can't wait to do something else. It doesn't matter. I don't look at my time as a lawyer on Wall Street as a waste of time or a waste of energy. I look at it as an education that at the very least shows me that I was capable of making it in a cutthroat corporate environment but really didn't want to be there. There's actually a lot of value in that for you as well, even if you don't see it yet, so all right, keep in touch a little brother. Let me know how this goes. All right, what's next?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:16] Hi Jordan and Jason. Around two months ago I found out my girlfriend of four months was pregnant. We are both in love with each other and she's everything I want in a woman. The problem is I'm cognizant of the fact that we are in the honeymoon phase and we are both young at 23. She graduated from college and has a good paying job at around $40,000 and I make around the same amount doing property management. I'll be graduating in the spring right before the baby comes and then I can work on increasing my income through commissions as I'll also have my real estate license. This was unexpected as we took the proper precautions every time via birth control, but what happened is in the past. I don't want to marry her for the sake of getting married but think that I will eventually do it once we are a little further in the relationship as everything besides this hiccup is going very good. This may not be the traditional route, but deep down I want to marry her because I love her and not because of what society thinks I should do. I already have a plan of teaching my child to learn about whatever he or she is curious about. I want to make education fun and interesting. Well they're a child and incentivize it whenever possible. I read and listened to roughly 15 to 20 nonfiction books a year as well as podcasts such as yours to educate myself and apply the knowledge. I would like your honest opinion on what you guys would do in my situation. Thank you, Knocked Up But Not Out.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:31] Hey, Knocked Up But Not Out. That's funny. So this is a very mature and responsible way of looking at this situation. Let me get this out of the way. You're probably too young to have kids and you're definitely too young to get married, but now that you're having a kid and what's happening, let's move on. You'll be fine and you'll be a great dad. Hopefully you'll both be great parents as well. Now your youth has been cut a bit short, but from what I hear, the trade-offs are worth it and I can also tell you that a lot of what I did from age 25 to 30 was kind of just me being slow off the ball and immature and it's probably more like 25 to 35, but whatever.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:24:06] Maybe 38.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:07] Maybe 38, you won't have the luxury of being able to be a mature during this phase, which is great. Congratulations. I think that's what I'm trying to say here. Congratulations. I like that you're not feeling pressure to get married just because of society's expectations. That's good. There's some pressure from outside to get married simply because you have a child, but I'm here to tell you from my perspective that the pressure is not healthy. You're in a situation which binds you legally and ethically to your girlfriend and your yet unborn child. You do not need to complicate things by also being married. You can co-parent just fine without also being legally married. You should get a lawyer to outline your rights as parents and discuss the pros and cons of being married versus unmarried with a child. Now this is something that depends on what state you live in. So get a lawyer in your states, sit down with her and yourself with this lawyer. Outline any concerns.

[00:25:02] It may make sense to have your parents there if they get along and they're not just going to start throwing their opinions all over this and tell the lawyer, “Tell them to get married because you know that's what we want.” If you're not sure, go by yourselves because this is about you. It's not about what your parents are worried, their neighbors are going to think and you're very young. And I also think, look, you're very mature for age 23. I would not have been -- what I would do if I were in your shoes, is see the lawyer agree upon what you're going to do with legal custody, with the child's name, have these conversations now, have the child and then wait to get married until you're more developed in the relationship. Now, why do I suggest postponing being married? Being married has all sorts of legal obligations to one another that you simply do not need right now. You are already legally obligated to your child. There's no need for you to take on additional obligations to one another while you're so young. If something happens to the relationship, which is very common, and frankly more likely to happen in your early to mid-20s then later on down the line in your 30s. You can still be an awesome father. You can co-parent without also being divorced and having all the legal mess and expense that goes with that.

[00:26:12] Think about it. If something happens to your relationship and you get divorced, you have to funnel money towards that instead of towards your child. It's not worth it. I'm fully aware that not everyone's going to agree with me, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So I suggest you see one about this issue in your state, both alone ideally, so that they can advise you personally as well as get together with your girlfriend so they can outline your obligations to one another. And in the end, this is going to be a big life change for both of you and your future marriage. If you decide to do that, we'll be a lot stronger if you wait for the right time to do it instead of doing it when you feel like you need to because of circumstances or outside pressure, and a so keep in touch and don't forget to name your baby after me.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:55] Or me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:56] Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:56] Either one will work.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:57] Or both Jordan Jason.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:00] Not if it's a girl. You don't want to -- you don't want a girl named Jason.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:03] No, if it's a girl, just, just, just me.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:07] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:10] This episode is sponsored in part by Althletic Greens. I love this stuff. I've been taking it for a while and it's partly because I don't believe that vitamins really could have enough nutrients in them for what you need. I'm bad at eating vegetables. I mean I eat them, but I skip meals a lot so that's been kind of my big issue with these. And so Athletic Greens is great, especially for me traveling, airplane food, not a lot of veggies. Airport food, not a lot of veggies. Hotel food, not a lot of fresh stuff. And Tim Ferriss originally told me about this. I know Jason, you were taking this stuff for a minute as well back in the day. I don't know if you still are.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:45] Oh hell yeah. I love my Athletic Greens. They keep me going in the morning.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:49] Yeah. And I think that what's best about these is they come with travel packs. You can sort of divvy it up, you can take it every day. You've got the guy health stuff. It's a whole food sourced ingredients too. So they've got digestion, guy health, adaptogens, antioxidants, all those, all those buzz words are in there, and one scoop has the antioxidant equivalent of like 12 servings of fruits and vegetables, which is kind of a big deal and it doesn't taste like your front lawn, which I think is important and we have a special deal for our listeners where they're giving you 20 free travel packs valued at 79 bucks with your first purchase. Jason, tell them how to get it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:28:23] Getting into a daily routine with Athletic Greens really will be the single best thing you can do for your health and success this year. We can't stress this enough. Jump over to athleticgreens.com/jordan and claim your special offer today. That's athleticgreens.com/jordan or 20 free travel packs valued at $79 with your first purchase.

[00:28:43] Thanks for listening in supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what literally keeps us on the air to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals, and if you're listening to this and the Overcast player, please click the little star button next to the episode. It really helps us out. Back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:03] All right, what's next?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:05] Good day. I'm finally asking for feedback after being a long time listener and fan of your show. I've held the same position for over 13 years at my workplace. I've remained there so long because the pay and the benefits are great in a necessity to support my family. However, this is a low morale career field and even though I've taken on more responsibilities to add to my resume and keep my brain active, I continue down the road of burnout. The coping mechanisms I use to help alleviate the burnout or not keeping pace with the added stressors of the job. I don't have any one skill that I'm great at. I find myself more of a Jack of all trades. I've applied for dozens of over the past few years and made it to the final applicant interviews several times. I continue to tweak and improve my resume and interviewing skills, but still can't seem to land a new gig.

[00:29:51] The bigger issue is I don't know what job is perfect for me. There are many things I would like to do, but I don't really know if that career path would be perfect for me. I have to take care of my family first, which includes having health insurance at all times, so I just can't hop job to job hoping to finally find one that fits. How do I find what career is right for me before I finally become totally burnt out from my current job without having the ability to test the waters? Thank you. Stuck In A Career Rut.

PS, I have a bachelor's degree and I continue to take classes. I love to learn and well respected by colleagues and managers at my workplace, however, I have never been considered for an interview for any permanent promotional internal opportunities. Although I was awarded a temporary promotion assignment and was told that I did a great job for the few months that I was there.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:37] Well, I applaud you being responsible to your family first. I think that's important, and not job hopping is good. You're showing stability in the workplace and a willingness to stick with something, and there's something else going on here. I was wondering why you hadn't made it to any of the new gigs for what you'd applied and that can always be just a matter of circumstance. That said, not even being promoted internally, it's a little weird. I don't know what's going on there. Definitely continue learning and growing. That's great. That's necessary for growth inside and outside of your career and definitely keep applying to other jobs and looking for new roles that interests you. What I see as crucial here is figuring out why you haven't been considered for different roles internally. If you weren't a fit for one, fine, but if you've had temporary promotions inside the company and haven't ever been considered for a permanent position, there's something else going on here. Either, one, you're so good at your current role, they can't afford to promote you because you're indispensable. Probably not the case, just being real here. People almost always get promoted internally unless they're in a highly technical role and then you know you're stuck like you're the only guy who knows how to use the whatever server that runs on cobalt or something, I don’t know.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:49] The widget eight or 5,000, he's the only one certified to run it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:52] Yeah, completely. Right. Then I get it and then it's like, “Oh man, we got to keep him there because otherwise nobody else is going to do it.” Or two, you're missing something and they're not telling you, but you have to get to the bottom of this. Ask the managers what the issues are and ask your colleagues as well. Maybe there's something people are afraid to tell you or maybe it's something intangible. You can also ask off the record if you know someone there well enough that they'd be able to tell you the absolute truth, knowing it wouldn't get back to them. Maybe someone there has it out for you or maybe you're lacking something that the company would get in trouble for telling you, I don't know. It doesn't matter what it is. You have to figure out what it is or it's going to weigh you down forever.

[00:32:32] And the good news is that once you find out the problem, you can actually fix it and move forward, and that's the key here. You can also apply things outside, but look, if there's something stopping you from getting promoted and from getting your job, you've got to track it down. You've got to figure out what it is. And you might be able to phrase this in a way that doesn't get people in trouble. Like, “Well I don't know why Jim, you're never getting promoted.” And it's like if you had to pick something that you thought maybe was the reason, but probably isn't, what would it be? And then you might get people saying, “Well, you know you do take long lunches and show up late.” But I don't think that that's a big deal. But maybe that's why, because then you know, they're not really on the record doing it, but they can quote unquote hypothesize and take a guess. Something's going on here and you need to figure out what it is.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:17] I also think that since he labels himself as a Jack of all trades, which is one of those things where like in the software companies I worked at, I was the Jack of all trades. I could do several different jobs, so I did several different jobs. Like when I left one of my companies, they hired four people to replace me because I did so many different things. But that also means he doesn't specialize, and not being a specialist in whatever field you're in can be a hindrance when you're trying to get a job. So you want to pick something that you really want to dive deep into and just really go deep on it because when you're out there interviewing for other jobs, I think you really need to have like some kind of specialized skillset. I know they say, you want to have a broad education nowadays, but for a lot of places they want people with deep knowledge on a specific topic to fill a role. And I think that might be one of your problems when you're going out to get a new job, that you do have this like broad Jack of all trades skillset which means they think you're just going to be mediocre at everything. Even though you might be really good at everything on a resume that just looks like you're mediocre at everything.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:20] Yeah, I agree. They probably need a Jack of all trades, but they don't need one as a manager, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:26] Right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:26] So it's like, “Why pay this guy if he's just going to do the same job as a manager as he's doing now? Why promote?” Good point, Jason. All right, what's next?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:34] Hey Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I've built up a broad, strong network of relationships and connections over the past few years in large part due to what I've learned from you. Naturally, that has led to lots of opportunities for providing value in the form of connecting people. I've been super eager to engage this. Every time I stumble across the possibility that I might be able to introduce to people with mutual benefit, I jump at the opportunity. I ask each person if they'd be interested in an intro. Nobody has ever said no, after one side said yes. I thank them for being willing, then send a thorough but concise intro over email or messenger or text. I usually include a next step if it's appropriate. At that point, my job is done and it's up to them to complete it. I've realized that a lot of the intros I've been doing have fallen through or been botched. In those cases, it seems like one person fails to engage altogether or scheduling issues lead to never scheduling or in the worst case, I had a friend tell me that the introed friend was inconsiderate or impolite. Now Jordan, we've got a bunch of questions here so we're going to hit these one at a time. You ready?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:36] Yep.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:36] I suspect this is a common set of problems. I know you must be giving many of these kinds of intros. So what causes people to botch intros? Should I judge them for it? I'd like to think I treat every intro I get from someone else is sacred. Someone is going out on a limb for me and I need to deliver, even if that just means having a conversation. So I tend to think very poorly of someone when I find out they failed to follow through, even though I had judged them to be of high quality even before the intro experience.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:03] Yeah. So the first thing you should do, this is highly unusual by the way. I'll address each of these because I think a lot of these tools, solutions to the problem that are tools that are in my arsenal here. Should you judge people who bought your intros? Yes. Yes, you should judge them for it. When someone doesn't engage after I introduce them to somebody else, even after they have opted in and said yes to the introduction, that looks very bad. And of course that partially reflects on me or on you. So anyone who does this is automatically not able to get new introductions from me, period. I also send them a note asking them why they ask for an introduction only to then ignore it, letting them know that it looks bad for both them and me, and it's rude. I'm pretty blunt about this, but I always offer a way out.

[00:36:50] So it goes a little something like this. I know you must be really busy because you asked me for an introduction and then when I facilitated that you didn't reply. Is everything okay? This reflects poorly on both you and I, so I assume there must be something going on in your life that prevented you from doing what you said you were going to do. Is there any way I can help you get through this? We're friends after all, this isn't something I'm used to from you, so keep me posted on what's going on and I'll buy some time with the, you know, with whoever we introduced in the meantime. Now they should get the freaking hint after this and they'll probably send you something, some BS like, “Oh, I'm so sorry. Things are crazy at work. I was just about your reply this weekend. I'll do it now.” I'm sorry you're going to get stuff like that. And frankly, they're on my shit list for a while after that. You've got to protect your reputation. And if somebody says yes, introduced me to this person, after you ask them, then they don't bother to reply. They really don't value this and they're kind of a jackass. Sorry, but that's a dick move. It really is.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:37:45] So Jordan, does this apply equally to both parties in the introduction, if the person that was asking for the introduction drop the ball or the person who is getting the introduction dropped the ball.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:55] Yeah. So either party, basically you're doing a double opt in introduction here as per the Six-Minute Networking instruction. So you're saying, “Hey Jason, can I introduce you to Mike?” “Yeah.” “Mike, can I introduce you to Jason?” You get yeses from both. If one person doesn't reply, then yeah, you should check back in and say, “Hey, I know that you agreed to let me introduce you to so and so. And they said, they haven't heard from you what's going on? And you know, is everything okay?”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:38:19] Right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:20] Because they might be like, “Sorry, I had a medical emergency and I haven't checked my email.” Then you're like, “Oh, okay, I get it.” But if they're like, “Oh, I'm just really busy,” then you can be like, “Great, please get back to them when you get a chance because he is expecting to hear from you and I know we talked about this.” I'm pretty blunt. I'm not rude, but I'm kind of like you said this is going to happen. Is it going to happen? You know, because people shouldn't freak and say yes if they're not going to follow through. It's just, it's rude.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:38:45] Oh, I'm totally with you on that. Yeah. When I do that and somebody doesn't reply, I'm a Dick. He was like, look, I put my reputation on the line for you and you're not following through what gives, you know? And yes, they might have had a family emergency and then they get a little slack and then they get another chance. They get a do over car to get out of jail free card. But if it was just, “Eh, didn't get around to it.” Then yeah, you're cut out of my intro loop forever.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:08] Yeah, yeah. And I know that people are like, “Oh, who cares?” You will care, if you ask me for an introduction and now you're never getting one that sucks for you. And if I'm introducing you to people and they're valuable and you agree to it, and then you don't reply like I'm not just farming out intros, you should say no if you don't want those. And that's why during the double opt in you offer them the ability to say no, and people say no all the time and it's totally fine. So it could be because you're setting it up in properly where you're making people feel like they have to say yes and then they're hoping that you never do it. But if you're setting it up properly as per Six-Minute Networking, then this is on them.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:47] All right, moving on.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:48] Moving on.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:48] Do you have any tips for getting a feedback loop going for intros? I often don't know if an intro went well or poorly unless I directly ask someone. Sometimes that doesn't feel like an option because the people I introduced or busy acquaintances whom I don't want to task with, filling out my manual feedback loop research.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:05] Right. As for feedback, I use a tool called Boomerang and we'll link to that in the show notes. What it does is after, let's say a certain amount of time, like a week or two weeks, the email thread gets bumped back into your inbox using this tool Boomerang and the intro emails bounce back to me in about 30 days and then I follow up on both with, “Hey all, I'm just poking my head in here to see how this introduction went for everyone. Was it valuable? Sometimes I don't need to do that because I see them talking to each other and then they go, “Hey, we're taking Jordan out of the loop. Thanks Jordan, bye.” You know, that kind of thing? But it reminds people who made the intro. So it increases my social capital because of it, but it also moves the interaction forward if needed.

[00:40:45] Someone can reply and go, yeah, actually I replied and I never heard from you, Jason is it goes into your spam folder, maybe. Ha, ha, ha, like get off your ass and reply kind of thing. Or it gets feedback and it doesn't matter if people are busy, you did them a favor. The least they can do is shoot you a one liner saying, “Yeah, actually we did talk. We took you off the thread. Thanks again buddy.” That's all you need, right? You just use Boomerang. You reminds you to check back in. You're totally within your rights to ask if the introduction that you spent time creating worked for everyone. Even if one person sends one line, it's at least they can do.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:41:18] Next up. Is it appropriate to give people a deadline? For example, if I intro you, you need to respond to them within 48 hours. How do you say that without sounding demanding?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:27] Right. It's not appropriate to give people a deadline, not really. Anyway, what I do instead is, again, I use Boomerang and I Boomerang the intro email for about a week. If I don't see any activity at all, I write both people again and I say, “Hey, I didn't see any replies here. Did you guys reach out to one another independently? If so, I'd love to know that this introduction was valuable to both of you as you both had requested. I make it.” In other words, I'm on to you. I'm monitoring this, I'm paying attention. You both said you would do this and neither of you did. Get off your duff. That's kind of what I'm saying in this email, and you can also write to them individually if they don't reply to that like, “Hey, Jim, I sent an email reply to both of you. Neither of you got this. What's going on? You said yes to this introduction. Did I do something wrong or is there a problem?” And then you'll often find one person say something like, “Hey, I didn't know how to address this, but that person's been writing me nonstop and it's really irritating. I don't know how to handle it.” Or “Oh, sorry, we've both been really busy and I thought I would hear from him and dah, dah, dah.” And you just basically you get one person to get off their duff because sometimes you'll make an intro and then they're waiting for the other person to reply and then that person's waiting for them to reply because nobody wants to make the first move and it's irritating, it's stupid. This handles the deadline, it handles the follow-up and it improves the conversion rate for every introduction. So I hope that helps. And now that said, by the way, I almost never have to do any of this, so don't be like, “Oh my gosh, introductions are a ton of work.”

[00:42:55] I do this like once a quarter because most introductions work flawlessly. It's not a problem. That's why I'm wondering what's going on with your circle here. Most of the intros I make, really, I have the parties responding within hours or days, never longer. I almost never have to rattle them to make it work. So perhaps it's time to upgrade the circle you're in or perhaps there's something else going on here for which we don't have context that's actually worth exploring.

[00:43:21] Thanks for asking such a great question because I'm going to add this to the Six-Minute Networking Q&A now that we're reshooting this, and if you're not in Six-Minute Networking, I mentioned it earlier, jordanharbinger.com/course. It's free. Get after these skills. They are a game changer. Recommendation of the week. Jason, you got something new for us.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:43:39] I've been watching Murder Mountain on Netflix. It just came out a couple of days ago and binged it. It's only six episodes, but I've binged it in two days with my roommate and it was fascinating. It's about Humboldt County up in Northern California where a lot of illegal pot has grown and it's the missing capital person of California. Like a lot of people go up there for day work and then just either disappear or get killed. And there's a story about one guy in here that does get murdered and like the vigilantes that go after the guy that killed them, and it's a fascinating story.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:12] It's crazy.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:13] And it’s a lot of stuff. Yeah, it's, it's a pretty broad little documentary for six episodes, but highly recommended.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:20] I don't even know that we had that much going on up there. Like it's kind of rural-ish.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:25] Well the Redwoods cover a lot of plots. So a lot of people in the ‘60s went up there to grow pot because they were the cover of the Redwoods and it's very rural, you know, it's out in the middle of nowhere. So the pot grows, went up there in the ‘60s and just wanted to kind of be alone, left alone and grow their staple crops and just have their little hippie communes. But marijuana was one of their staple crops because you know hippies, and it just kind of grew from there. And with all of the stuff with legalization in California about how it's actually driving a lot of legitimate growers out of business, the people who want to pay the taxes and the fees, but the fees are so high, there's still a huge black market and this is having the actual, you know, wrong effect on what they were trying to do in California with how the pot industry's going. It's fascinating.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:12] That is fascinating. Wow. Murder Mountain on Netflix. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week and don't forget you can email us friday@jordanharbinger.com. We'll answer your question here on the air. Happy to keep you anonymous. Actually we always keep you anonymous. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shout out to Trevor Noah from the Daily Show who I found out recently actually listens to the show. I think I mentioned that in another episode but I wanted to give a proper shout out here as well and that goes for everyone sending me messages on Twitter and Instagram. I love interacting with you guys. They're too many to name. I do check those pretty much every day and for short notes, I really do appreciate it. You can also always email me jordan@jordanharbinger.com, and I'm JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. Jason, where can they find you?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:59] They can find me over at jpd.me, which is my personal website and always I'm over at Grumpy Old Geeks, which is my tech podcast that comes out twice a week. It's over a gog.show or your podcast player of choice.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:10] This show was co-produced with Jen Harbinger. Show notes for this episode, our by Robert Fogarty. Keep sending those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep them concise, it'll help us get your question answered and share the show with those you love and even those you don't. 2019 is shaping up to be great so far and we're excited to bring you some great stuff this year. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time.