158: How to Save Someone from a Self-Help Cult | Feedback Friday

Transcript for How to Save Someone from a Self-Help Cult | Feedback Friday (Episode 158)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday, I'm your host Jordan Harbinger, and I'm here with producer Jason DeFilippo. Here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We love having conversations with our fascinating guests and this week we had Jaron Lanier, talking about how social media companies, well essentially take over our brain and our thought patterns by insidiously showing us things that they know we want to see and that will trigger us. We also had John Ruhlin, talking about gifting and getting inside people's brains in the positive way with things that they like that will surprise them instead of the negative way getting in their brain. So we kind of had two sides of the same coin here this week on the show. Also, I don't know how many people even know this. I write every so often on the blog. The latest blog post is actually about how to make friends as an adult. And I know that sounds kind of weird, but it's one of the most common questions that we have here. It's a totally different process than we had as kids.

[00:00:50] So of course that's on the blog on the website on jordanharbinger.com. So make sure you've had a look and to listen to all that good stuff this week. Of course, our primary mission is to pass along what our guests discuss, our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations directly with you and that's what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Concise means it'll get a better chance of getting on the air. And Jason, we've got some really interesting questions this week. So as always, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:01:21] Hi Jordan. How can I prove that my teacher is named grading essays without cheating on the paper? Signed, Is My Teacher Are Lazy Bones?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:28] So I had to look this up, but name grading. Did you know what this was, Jason? I didn't even know what this was.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:01:33] I've got no idea what this was. You know how many essays I've written. Come on.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:36] I can imagine. So essentially what it is, is when a teacher knows that certain kids in the class are smart and certain kids in the class or not, that she goes, “Oh, Jordan wrote this. Yeah, it's going to be A minus for sure, you know whatever.”

Jason DeFilippo: [00:01:49] Oh man, that's profiling, that’s student profiling.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:52] It is. I would imagine that teachers that do this probable, I'd like to think they're doing it and they are going, “Oh, it's the smart girl, Bryn. This is going to be an A whatever,” which is still a disservice because the person never gets a chance to improve. But it sucks because you know for sure they also do it to the kids they think are idiots and they're probably harder on them or easier on them, but they just go a C minus whatever. So nobody's really improving when this happened. So I didn't really know what that was, but I can see why this is a problem. So this is a trick that I got for something else, for a different problem, but it'll totally work here. It's called the elephant trick. And what you're doing when you're writing your elephant essays, interject the word elephant a few times in places where elephant, it clearly doesn't belong and don't do this on the first or second line. Do it elephant in the middle of the paper and make sure your paper is otherwise elephant of high quality. And then if the teacher circles the word elephant and puts a question mark on it, just say, “Oh my gosh, my dumb cousin was over and playing on my computer. I'm so sorry. Your teacher will probably laugh. You know, if you're in grade school, of course, even in college I've had stuff like this happen. They'll give you a regular grade because your paper was great and it just had the word elephant in there a few times and obvious places where you wouldn't have put that. Look, you might get marked down for not having checked that, but it's not going to be that much. And if that's worth it to you to figure out what this is, if your teacher's really named grading, then you certainly will. If your teacher says nothing, well now you know the truth. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:03:20] Hi guys, I'm a veteran and I don't know how to transition to civilian life. Do you have any resources or can you point me in any direction that will be helpful? Signed, Stuck In The Army.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:30] So this answer actually comes from the listener of the show that had sent it in and I thought, all right, I was about to do this, but look at this answer that magically appeared in my inbox. I just sort of reframed it here from Zack Criswell. I'm not sure how many people may have wrote to you that are ex-military looking for guidance into transitioning into a civilian life and professional or something similar. So very apropos, Zack, thank you. I figured with your huge following, you're bound to have some. In case, you're not too familiar about different resources to guide them to. Here are some that have really helped me out. So this is from personal experience, which is always key with any advice. The first is American Corporate Partners, they take transitioning veterans or reservists and pair them with volunteer mentors in or close to their preferred civilian sector.

[00:04:11] The mentors coach in resume building, link military skills to corporate settings, networking and linking to other relevant sources. It's a yearlong mentorship where they're constantly trying to help their mentees set goals, improve and create an easier transition. The program comes really highly reviewed and we'll link to that in the show notes because the URL and typical sort of military government fashion, really. Acp-usa.org. Acp-usa.org. We'll link to that in the show notes.

[00:04:38] The second resource is called Military MOJO. It's a career fair where all the companies attending are seeking out those with military experience. Huge companies in all career fields, Johnson and Johnson, Amazon, GM, tons more. They have events all over the country throughout the year and it's free if you sign up early enough. They also provide personal coaching, which is really important with each attendee that is meant to make them the most marketable to the companies of their choice.

So you're not just showing up to a random job fair with no guidance, and Zach didn't find his job through one of the career fairs. He was able to use the advice anyway on the resume, the company research and the interview techniques to get a position in pharmaceutical sales before he even had to attend the event. So great opportunity, militarymojo.org. We'll link to that in the show notes as well.

[00:05:23] And this is one just a little tiny little thing we're trying to do to help some of the heroes coming back to the country and transitioning to civilian life. So that's really important for us and thanks to Zack Criswell for those resources as well. Another charity that I am fond of participating in is American Dream University, americandreamu.org, that's a great organization where guys like me, other entrepreneurs, business owners, we will go and speak to active duty military. So I was on Fort Lewis, we've been at Fort Bragg, I've been to a bunch of different events with American Dream U to help teach active duty guys, what they need to be thinking about right now. Essentially dig the well before they get thirsty. So we go in a couple of years before these guys get out and they get inspiration ideas, contacts, Americandreamu.org. Great resource there from Phil Randazzo, a good friend of mine as well. We'll link to that in the show notes too. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:06:17] First off, I want to thank you Jordan for an Instagram post to one of my 19 year old twins. She was over the moon when you replied to her on IG. We all listened to the podcast and talk about them frequently. What a great way to talk about life lessons with one's kids without having to pontificate or act like the parent. We are the pontificators I guess Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:34] Guess so.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:06:35] Onto my question. My former CIO wants to bring me on at his new company. I have a good position now and an excellent manager who I do like working for. Since the new position would be a significant step up in both compensation and opportunity, I'm going to take it if it materializes. I don't have an interest in negotiating for better at my current company. I feel it's a poor character to do so. At what point do I bring it up with my manager? Is it unfair of me not to give them a chance to get me to stay? PS, I listened to the Alex Coots podcasts again before acting on this opportunity and actually negotiated with a potential employer for the first time in my career. It was so uncomfortable for me to negotiate, but I stuck with it. If this job works out and I think it will, the difference to me is going to be over $250,000 by the time I retire. I'm also 58. I say this to all your listeners. The strategies and insights from the podcast can and will help throughout your lives if you put them into practice. Thanks guys. Sincerely, Never Too Old.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:32] You aren't required to negotiate to stay. I get it and I understand why you might think it's a little awkward, but I'm going to get to that in a second. It's actually a waste of their time for the most part. If you're just dead set on leaving to negotiate and I guess maybe that's why you have a little bit of a reservation here. If you're not going to stay, you're not going to stay. Here's why you might want to negotiate though. Right now you've got the most leverage you'll ever have other than when you have an offer from the other company and writing, you want to walk away and you're being poached by another company. If you negotiate with your current company, then if the other offer doesn't happen, you have a better package at your current job. I know you say you think this is in poor taste, but I'm not totally sure why. I mean I can hypothesize, but that's about it. Perhaps I'm missing some context here, but otherwise that's what I would do.

[00:08:20] That said, if you get the other offer, then you'd be leaving this current company even if they matched the other offer, right? If that's the case, your current company might be a bit surprised, but in the end I think everyone understands that people do what is best for them in a corporate context. Do not bring up leaving with your manager until you have another offer in writing. Otherwise the other job could never materialize and then you might get terminated, which is horrible. That's the worst case scenario. Ask for the offer in writing ASAP. Then give the appropriate notice to your manager and to the company. They may offer to match the offer got from the other company at which point you can either negotiate or just decline and say, no, you'd rather leave. Here's why. Always get everything in writing that you might rely on. Especially job offers. Salary increases, any sort of negotiation. Otherwise, these are vapor. Jason, I'm sure you've been screwed over at some point in the past with negotiations or leaving your company.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:09:15] Oh yeah. I've done this a couple times and I got burned because I did not do the thing that you just said, which was get it in writing. Everything was verbal and I'm like, “Oh man, this new company wants to bring me on. They're going to give me a 20K bump. This is going to be great.” I've got a couple more days of vacation a year. So I went back to my current company and I'm like, “Hey guys, these guys are trying to poach me and this is the offer I got.” And they're like, “Go with God.” And then the other offer didn't show up and I was back on the street because they were just like, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:46] I'm just going to keep showing up and hope you all don't notice, right?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:09:50] No, no, no. It was just like, okay, so we're going to assume this is your two week notice. And I'm like, “Ah, went to [indiscernible] Crap.” And that was it. So yeah, you can step on your own Willy if you jumped the gun on here and don't get things in writing first. So I mean, I was in my 20s when that happened, but yeah, I have the wisdom of experience now, and it sounds like never too old actually does as well because he's not a spring chicken.

[00:10:20] This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:23] This episode is sponsored by Better Help. And you all know I'm a huge proponent of therapy and that's why I love this sponsor. Better Help offers licensed professional counselors who are specialized in issues such as depression, stress, anxiety, relationships, sleeping, trauma, anger, family conflicts, LGBT matters, grief, self-esteem, and more. I know this is a long list, but honestly there's a lot of stuff that a lot of guys like you and me, guys and gals all over the world, we're sleeping on this. We think it's normal. We think we're the only one. We don't need to take hours out of our week to go see therapy. We're not Tony Soprano. I get it. Connect with your professional counselor in a safe and private online environment. Anything you share is confidential. It's convenient. You can now get help on your own time and at your own pace. You can schedule a secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist. It's like talking to an normal human, like a normal friend. If you're not happy with your counselor, you can request a new one at any time at no charge, Jason.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:11:23] In under five minutes, I filled out the questionnaire that was used to match me with a therapist who specialized in the areas that I needed to discuss. In about 90 minutes, I got my first message from my new therapist and we were talking on the website. It can take up to 24 hours to get you matched depending on your time zone and when you fill out the form, but better help has over 3,000 US licensed therapists in all 50 States. After I was assigned to my therapist, we started talking and set up our first video chat. Over the next several weeks, I'll be talking about my experience with better health as I worked through some of my issues and let's face it, we all have issues. Best of all, it's a truly affordable option and our listeners get 10 percent off your first month with discount code JORDAN, so why not get started today? Go to betterhealth.com/jordan. Simply fill out the questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get meshed with a counselor that you will love. Betterhealth.com/jordan for 10 percent off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/jordan.

[00:12:17] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals, and if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:40] All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:12:42] Hey, triple J. Thanks for all you do. I'm in a relationship with an incredible young woman. We've been seeing each other for about a year and I made it official in the fall. She has all the core characteristics of someone I'd want in my life and is actively trying to be better herself and set herself up for success in the future. We don't see eye to eye on everything. She's more spiritual than I am and I'm significantly more practical, but we've done a good job of allowing ourselves to discuss our beliefs and not force thoughts on the other, i.e., she's a vegan, but I'm never giving up bacon, ever. Good on you, man. Recently she went on an awareness training that she was recommended to attend by a friend. It wasn't overnight or far away, but she went to this conference space for 36 hours over a four day span where from my understanding she met strangers, was taught to open up her emotions and was helped to adjust some of the things she sees his faults like in decisiveness or fear of embarrassment. She felt genuinely moved to better herself, see more clearly in succeed. All great. My problem being and what my initial concern was, she was essentially offered and convinced to attend around two, which costs $1,400 and requires her to take off work to attend 42 hours of workshops over five days. This is nonrefundable and to me seems like a sales scam that she was sold to better herself without any actual tangible takeaways. She doesn't have that much money to toss away and is in grad school with only a part time job. It's not my job to take care of her financially, but I don't see the worth and I'm worried there's some part three that she might get sold into and that'll put her into a hole. Am I reading too much into this? Is this a character flaw that I should be worried about? If this still makes her feel good afterwards? Should I just be happy for thanks for her. Thanks for the help. Really appreciate it, Not My Girlfriend’s Guru.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:27] All right, so here's the problem. I've taken some of these courses. I took one and I'm literally not even going to mention the name because this company is so litigious. They're famous for going after people who even mentioned them in some sort of supposedly negative light. This is this BS leadership class. It was really just culty bullcrap and I went to this based on a recommendation from another influencer who said it was a leadership class. And I show up there and it's just this garbage like, all designed to rip open emotional wounds on people that are highly suggestible. There was a lot of peer pressure. There was a lot of forced fake vulnerability. The problem is if you push her on this, she's going to get mad because a lot of these self-help things teach there -- I'm trying not to be insulting because it's like this like sheep mentality. They try to teach these people to remove yourself from anyone who doesn't support your path to enlightenment or to growth or some other BS. Basically isolate yourself. If somebody questions us, that's just a bad sign.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:15:30] It’s cult one-on-one.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:31] Yeah, cult one-on-one, and I think you should be supportive of her personal development, but instead of signing up for the next one right away, maybe you can suggest that she wait to save up. Meanwhile that self-help high that post-workshop high will wear off and they always do these hard sells at the end, where they have people literally running to sign up for the early discount in the back of the room and then they take them to another room a lot of the time. The problem is that you have to meet her where she is. So one, you've got to be supportive of growth, of self-help in general, and then two, you've got to kind of redirect this sort of like, “Hey, instead of going on that, why don't we do something together that isn't this. Something that where we can both benefit. We can both go learn a skill or something like that.” You can suggest that you do it together, or you can even get a little bit more aggressive with it. Just be careful by saying something like, “What tangible tools have you learned? What can you teach me without me having gone to the course?” She'll probably find that there's not a whole lot there. It's just about feelings. It's about all you had to be there. You had to, you had to do it this way and then ask her, “So how long have all the people who worked there been with the organization?” Because what you'll find is that all those volunteers or all those leaders that she's probably interfacing with. They took the program a week ago, two weeks ago, last month. Four, why is it so pricey? If everyone there is a volunteer, those rooms are not that expensive. They really aren't. Where's the money going? Oh, it's all going to the guy who's on the stage and to the organization, period. Five, why do you have to take the advanced course now instead of an a couple of months when you've saved up the money?

[00:17:04] What's the actual hurry here, other than your excited about it? And of course, they program you for timing. They say things like, you've got to do it now. You've got momentum. You've got to do it while dah, dah, dah. You're open to this. You want to do it with your group of friends that you made at the first one, right? All of that is pressure for this sale. What's the hurry other than they're trying to get you jazzed up and warm up your buying temperature. You can gradually steer around this sort of thing. So she comes to her own conclusions. If you tell her all this, she's just going to go, “What? You're being resistant,” or whatever buzz word these companies have depends on the company, but it's always the same, depending on what buzzword they have for people. In fact, in Scientology, for example, they call it suppressive persons, right? They've got that whole thing. But every sort of little like this has words for people that are essentially the infidel, right?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:17:54] They always use strike while the iron is hot. Your right, you've got to keep that momentum up. You got to keep it going because they're banking on your high when you come out of these things to really get you to open up that checkbook and just keep going, keep going because you feel good right now. You've had a couple of drinks from the well and you think that the next one's going to be even better, but yeah, you pull her away from it as long as you can't go on a vacation for sure and just like wait and say, “Hey, let's take that money and go on a vacation together. I'll pay for half of it,” and then let her come down from that honeymoon phase because you and I, Jordan, have seen this over and over and over again, and you've got to separate her from the organization in a tactful way that doesn't make you look like the bad guy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:37] Exactly. You can ask her to hold off on this for a few weeks or months until the cash is in place. Maybe she's put the original teachings into practice. Of course, there are really, most of the time no original teachings. If you can get people to step back from these intro classes. Almost everything is a tearing open of a wound, forced vulnerability, like be authentic with your neighbor, pretend they're your mother or whatever. This is all designed to get people to feel certain feelings, and this way if you can get her to hold off for a week or two, even a couple of weeks is better than nothing. This way you're still being supportive of her, but you both get the benefit of time for the post-workshop high to wear off and I will say going to some of these courses, I was really, really impressed in a negative way at how manipulative a lot of these courses were slash are. It's fascinating to me. I almost wanted to do it again and take notes, but they actually don't allow any notes in the room for most of the courses that I did. Isn't that interesting?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:19:35] What?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:35] Oh, it's so valuable that you shouldn't write anything down. And of course their excuse is their excuses. “Oh, privacy.” And I'm like, well obviously I just won't write down things that are from other people. Oh well, any takeaway that you have, you'll remember because it'll be so important. It'll be life changing. It's like, “Hm, not everyone works like that. Maybe there's some stuff I want to take away. Oh, writing is a distraction from being present.” Is it really though? I don't think so. And also there's no water allowed in the room a lot of the time. You can't take bathroom breaks whenever you want to. You can't eat snacks and stuff like that. And I remember so many pressure tactics where they shamed people. There was one guy who was a surgeon and he was on call and his pager went off or whatever. Like his phone beep I guess, I don’t know, I think doctor stuff.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:20:20] They still use beepers. Yeah, they still use beepers.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:22] And he got in trouble and he's like, “Look, I'm on call, I'm a like a thoracic surgeon at the hospital.” And they were like, “You can't be on call while you're in class.” And he's like, “I literally don't have a choice.” Like this is a life and death situation. When this thing goes off. It's not like, “Hey bro, do you want pepperoni or mushrooms?” It's like it's a big deal. And they basically stood him up in front of the class and they were like, you can't have that in here. You're allowed to be on call, you have to be present. And he's like, “No, I have to rescue my patient's lives when they need liver transplants.” You know, like give me a break. And then they said you're being uncoachable. And he goes, “You know what? Fine.”

Jason DeFilippo: [00:21:01] Good for him.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:01] And when he left, a bunch of other people left and they actually chased a bunch of people out and sort of almost blocked to the door. And they were like, “You don't need to leave.” No, are you a doctor? No, he did other things that you all didn't see that were uncoachable and I was like, really? Because he was sitting next to me for like the entire day yesterday and today. And that guy never did anything. You're just lying. It was just BS, because they knew they had crossed the line because everybody understood that thoracic surgeon or whatever needed to have that and that they didn't care because they just wanted his money and they wanted the continuity. And there was another woman who stood up and was like, “Hey, you didn't let me go last night until 2 o'clock in the morning. I've got kids, I have to leave early,” and they were like, “You can't.” And she's like, “Yeah, I'm not abandoning my kids so you guys are idiots. I'm out.” It was just ridiculous.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:21:52] Yeah. It’s just ridiculous.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:53] But you know what? I thought at first, “Oh that's just mine.” I started comparing notes with a bunch of other people that were in these classes and people that took the next one and the next one and that had taken it before us, and they all have similar experiences to this. It's all high pressure. I remember even at the end, when they were having everybody run to the back of the room and then go to the other room and even the people who couldn't afford it had to sign a letter promising that they would go and they could go on credit and then they would have to pay later and all this stuff. And then there were like maybe 18 of us left who didn't want to register for the next thing. And the guy on stage goes, “Come here and sit up closer.” So in other words, instead of being in the back where we were, he's like moving closer and he made us all sit in the front two rows by getting compliance for us to move. And then he got down to our level and like got kind of leaned over us and was like, “Why are you all being resistant?” And I was like, “I don't like this.” And he's like, “Well, you should leave.” And I was like, “No, I'm going to finish it. I paid for it, I'm going to finish it.” And he's like, “We don't want resistant people here.” And I was like, “If you want me to sit in the back and not talk to anyone, that's fine, but I'm not leaving. I paid for this. Unless you want to refund my money.” And he was like, that was like garlic to the vampire. So he was like, “No, you can sit in the back.” Just don't ruin other people's experience. I was like, “Dude, I literally haven't said anything.” And there were other people who were sitting there and they were like, “Oh, there's other reasons I don't want to take it. I can't take it. I've got a funeral.” Like all these other excuses. And he tried to weasel and all these volunteer salespeople, they had this thing called the PhD program and all these volunteers, salespeople essentially were supposedly earning a quote unquote PhD. By the way, this is like at the YMCA, it's not an accredited, some crappy hotel somewhere near the airport. This is not a PhD. All it is, is those people get to learn how to sell for the organization. That's the PhD.

[00:23:41] So they were all in our like, “Don't you want your life to improve?” And it's like, “Yeah, but this isn't necessarily the way that's going to happen.” I mean, there's just pressure, oppressor, shame, all the stuff that we had talked about in the room. You're letting other people down. You're letting your group down by not joining them for the event. I mean, it's just shameless and disgusting. And I looked up the organization and they'd been getting sued since the fricking ‘70s and ‘80s for this kind of stuff. They just keep rebranding. It's really ridiculous.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:24:10] Yeah, that is ridiculous. And you know, I mean, we don't want to beat the dead horse here, but yeah, we've seen it over and over again. And so things like this kind of get our hackles up.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:19] Yeah, I do. I get a little, yeah --

 

Jason DeFilippo: [00:24:22] A little emotional.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:23] I get a little amped up because it really is predatory. These people do not care about anybody and good luck talking to an actual employee. Everyone's a volunteer and as soon as they decide they don't want to be there anymore, they get thrown, kicked to the curb, and then somebody else -- when I went to these things, because I went to a few beginnings and with other friends and I've seen a bunch of different outfits of these, just out of curiosity, after that. The only person that works there is the guy on stage. I think there's like one assistant person who basically wrangles all these volunteers. That's it.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:24:58] And the accountant that takes all the money.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:59] Of course, but even the people who are like running credit cards, signing people up, getting the waiver sign, seeding, they're all volunteers, every last one of them. And they're like, look at all these volunteers. Everybody wants to just be a part of the mission. But then I talked to them more in depth. They're actually paying to be there. They're not volunteers. They're paying to give free labor to the organization as part of the quote unquote PhD program. So it's more insidious because it looks like everybody's just so keen on it, but they're all like three weeks in.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:25:28] Oh man.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:30] Like where's the people that have been volunteering for five years like any church or any other sort of organization that's not just pure per nation, right?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:25:38] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:38] There's none.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:25:39] It’s evil. Evil stuff.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:40] Yeah.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:25:43] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:45] This episode is sponsored in part by Capterra. Remember 1989? The year of the World Wide Web was invented. Well, there's more than it happen then, of course, but we've come a long way in 30 years. So why does it feel like the software you use every day at work is stuck in the past? Take a leap into the future by finding the right software for your business on capterra.com. Capterra is a leading free online resource to help you find the best software solution for your business and with over 700,000 reviews of products from real software users, discover everything you need to make an informed decision search more than 700 specific categories of software. Everything from project management, to email marketing, to yoga studio management software. That's a real thing by the way. No matter what kind of software your business needs, Capterra makes it easy to discover the right solution fast. Jen actually used this recently to find a bunch of stuff that we use. It's actually really useful review engine for software. So kind of a great sponsor to have because normally you just Google stuff and whatever's on top, you know with all that malware is what comes up. So Capterra is really useful for filtering that out and getting real user reviews of software that you need. Jason.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:26:50] Visit capterra.com/jordan for free today, to find the right tools to make 2019 the year for your business. Capterra.com/jordan. That's C-A-P-T-E-R-R-A.com/jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:03] This episode is sponsored in part by HostGator. What's your online presence worth to you? If you only make your presence known on social media, you're not really in control of how others see you. When someone anonymous bozo has it out for you on the Internet, happens to the best of us. They can easily assault your reputation all over social media from the comfort of their keyboard with little fear of consequence. But if you own your own website, you own your online reputation, it's as simple as that and simpler yet, if you let HostGator help. The cost of having control over your online base of operations is minimal. In fact, HostGator's plan started under $3 a month, but the value is priceless and that's why we recommend HostGator's website builder. Hundred mobile friendly templates. That site's going to look good on a phone, on a tablet, on a desktop. If you want to use WordPress for your site, there's a one click install there. There's tons of add-ons like PayPal, SEO for search engine visibility, 99.9 percent guaranteed uptime, 24/7, 365 support online via chat, and don't worry about all this breaking the bank. You're getting up to 62 percent off all packages for new users, and of course, a 45 day money back guarantee and you get unlimited email addresses. So you’re no longer going to looks shady with your Gmail or your AOL address for your business. So go to hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. That's hostgator.com/jordan.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:28:20] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Now back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:34] All right, next step.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:28:36] Hey J's. I'm a money conscious 27 year old and have thankfully never needed a lawyer in the past, but I'm looking to buy an apartment soon, and no, I need one at least for when I'm ready to close. My problem is that I have no idea where to get a good one. For this situation and any in the future. How do I find a lawyer that won't break the bank and actually get the job done? I don't really trust the lawyers that my parents have used in the past and most of my network either isn't at this point in their life or their my clientele who are significantly older and more wealthy than I am. Is there a way I can weed through online results? Is there an app that I should be searching through? Are they all kind of created equal when it comes to this and I'll just pick the cheapest. Appreciate the help, Legally Lost.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:17] So it's funny because it seems like an obvious question, but I get this a lot. How do I find a lawyer that's going to work for me? I didn't realize by the way that some States require lawyers at real estate closings.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:29:28] Really?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:28] It's actually kind of a good idea because I think it probably in theory could help people from getting taken for a ride or raked over the coals. The problem is the lawyer's sitting there and there's 18,000 pages and they're not reading them. So you basically, you might not be able to do it. It also could harm you because then you sign this thing that nobody read and they're like, “Well you had a lawyer there didn't you?” And you're like “Damn it.” But at least then the lawyers, malpractice insurance might stick up for you. I don’t know, six of one does than the other. But for any services, referrals are always the best. So who can you ask? Maybe other real estate agents, parents, friends or their friends. I would check reviews for sure. Yelp and avvo.com, A-V-V-O.com is great for attorney reviews. You can ask your wealthy clientele actually about their lawyers. I know you say you probably can't afford that, but those lawyers can either refer you to someone else. They can provide service at a lower rate if they have the capacity to do so and they like you, which is actually a great way to generate a relationship with someone like that. Or most attorneys who are too expensive, they have junior associates at their firm. Those guys will do the heavy lifting. They'll supervise and make sure they don't totally screwed the pooch for you. This is your best bet in my opinion, is making sure that you get a referral directly and it's also really good way to get to know somebody who's kind of a high powered attorney without actually paying high power attorney fees.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:30:47] Yeah, I would definitely talk to your real estate agent about that or your broker. Because my roommate's a broker and she deals with a lot of lawyers in California. You don't need a lawyer there. This is the first time I've heard of that, which is crazy because I'm surrounded by real estate 24/7, and there's never a lawyer there but she is in the business and has to deal with lawyers all the time. So I bet that your agent or their broker will definitely be a good starting point then go into the reviews process that Jordan outlined. Look for all the reviews about him. But I think for an initial starting point, a referral from the agent or the broker would be a good place to start.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:23] Yeah. Good call. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:31:26] Dear Jordan and Jason, I've decided that I want to make a career change from the medical field into tech. While I may have put a lot of work into getting my degree, I don't see myself being satisfied with doing this type of work long term. My plan for this year is to learn the skills that I would need to get a job in digital marketing while still working full time at my current job. Much to my surprise when talking to my parents about this plan, I learned that I have a distant cousin who has a high profile job in the digital marketing space. I was able to get a phone call with him and he sounded eager to help in any way he could. He seems to have a pretty large network of other people working in this space who also have high profile positions and would like to introduce me to some of them. I've been listening to you for over two years now and would be an idiot not to see the type of value this relationship could offer. The problem is that I'm just starting to learn the basics of the tech industry and have no idea how to handle this type of opportunity. What would be the best way to go about this relationship without wasting anyone's time? Thank you for your generosity with all the information you provide every week. It's been a catalyst for change in my life. Sincerely, Confused Leprechaun With A Pot Of Gold.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:29] Great. So the first thing is apply the Six-Minute Networking concepts as you've been studying them. So you should offer help for free to get your foot in the door and learn. You got to do it so that you're not a burden. So I would ask your cousin if you can intern for him or for someone he knows in this space for free remotely or in person if you can, so that you can learn the ropes. Working unpaid sucks, but treat this like school education. It costs money. That's just how it is. Perhaps you can work for free remotely, part time while working in the current job. Then once you're more useful, work for free or a heavy discount, full time for someone else in this space for a shorter period of time as well. You'll want to get very good at a certain type of skillset and specialize as quickly as possible. I never hire digital marketing. I hire conversion focused design, right? So I'll hire somebody who does branding and design for a specific web property or even specific software, and I don't even want that same person's company to make the site. I just want them to do the design.

[00:33:33] I don't want somebody who does social. I want somebody who does high engagement video for Instagram, for example, right? I don't want a social media ninja like that is garbage that shows me that the person knows how to log into sites, make posts and use templates. I don't need that. I need somebody who just is aid an absolute sharp shooter in one distinct area and you can't do that with every platform. You can't. There's a reason that guys like Gary Vaynerchuk have 70 people working on their brand. There's probably a team for LinkedIn, a team for Quora, a team for Twitter. You get it. It's not just one person who does everything for all platforms. That's not what you need to be doing. That'll get you a job with the local hardware store doing their social, and you'll have 87 clients and make $12 a week. But if you can do something really well and it's very specific, then you'll be great at it. Even really good internet marketers, they're all asking me things. I've got friends who are in the Internet space, digital space, Internet marketing space, and they're like, “Hey, do you know somebody who can do traffic generation on Pinterest?” And like, “Oh, no, not off the top of my head.” These are guys that make tens of millions of dollars a year, a hundred million plus dollars a year in the space, and they're looking for somebody who's like the best in this particular platform and only in this particular space. That's what gets you paid.

[00:34:55] Eventually, you'll be at a point where your utility is high enough to get hired full time and this way you'll be able to keep getting paid at your current job for a while during what you'll be learning. You'll be transitioning. No need to go all in. I know influencers and Instagram wantrepreneur turds encourage you to drop everything. Go all in. This is terrible advice. I've said this before on the show. Transition slowly to mitigate risk and stay paid for as long as possible while you figure out what you want to focus on and then you build competency in that area. Congrats on the career change by the way. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:35:30] Hi Jordan, Jen, and Jason. I've been working for a Fortune 100 company for the past three and a half years. However, I'm not a direct employee of this company. I'm a contractor

who has worked onsite with the same team the entire time. My position hasn't changed, but the company that contracts my work has been bought and sold three times in the past three years. What are your recommendations for listing this on my resume? How do I present my resume so it does not look like I've switched companies three times over the past three years? Thank you for taking the time to read this and I value your opinion. Sincerely, Restless Resume.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:01] All right. Easy one. On your resume, you can list the job as one entry with the current name of the company. In other words, if you worked for company A and that became company B, which then became company C, and it's currently company C, just put company C on the resume and show that, that job stretches out over three years. If it's going to be really obvious somehow that you didn't work at a company with that name during the early years, perhaps because it didn't exist back then. Just put a little asterisk next to it and note that the company has been acquired and changed names three times since you've been there. Normally, I'd say you could just explain this during interviews, but you'll want to note it on the resume itself in some form unless recruiters are placing for you, maybe even if they are, because you don't want a recruiter or HR hiring manager to say something like, “Oh, she must be lying. This company didn't exist in 2015, what else is a lie on here?” In the end though, this happens all the time. Hiring managers are familiar with this. It'll be something they gloss over. If you just make a quick note on the resume itself. Definitely do not list three different companies. You're right to be worried about that. If it looks like you're job hopping, that's a bad sign and it'll get you tossed out pretty quickly. Congrats on the job stability. All right, last but not least.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:37:10] Hi, Jordan and Jesse. I've been labeled Jesse now, I don't know why.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:14] Nice.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:37:14] but I'm in my mid-fifties and I've worked in the fashion design business for my whole adult life. It's a very tough career and I've been through several crazy jobs. My age makes me a dinosaur in this field and my salary has definitely hit its peak. I have very little debt and my mortgage is nearly paid off. Unfortunately, my retirement savings are minimal. I have an opportunity to open up my own retail franchise. It would be the first one in my state and I believe in the product and feel that it would be successful. I don't have retail business experience, but I know the franchisor is very helpful with the setup and necessities to run the store. I'm a hardworking, intelligent person so I believe I could make it work, but there's no guarantee it would earn enough to make more than I make now. Is it crazy to take out loans and a second mortgage to pursue something that could take years to make money? I support my daughter and her young daughter, so I don't have a lot of room to take risks, but I'm desperate to get out of a cubicle and soul crushing career. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated. Thank you, Desperate By Design.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:14] This is a tougher one because this could ruin you, especially if you have no experience. I think the field of business is just littered with franchisees that fail. Yes, the corporate office is helpful but they're not the ones taking the risk. You know this isn't McDonald's where they're going to evaluate the heck out of you and make sure you're fit for it. This is a different, a lot of franchises perfectly happy to let you fail and then take over. In fact, they probably have provisions in the agreement that allow them to take over the business. If you end up not doing well with it, so be careful. I don't know this as fact, but I know that franchises hate going out of business because it looks bad, especially once they've invested and helped you and all this stuff, there's a reason that McDonalds just don't go out of business. They will take over your stuff if you are not managing it the way that they want, so be very careful.

[00:39:05] I know you're wanting to escape what you're doing currently, but this could just be a recipe for disaster. The world is littered with people who have no experience in an industry who start a franchise and fail. My uncle started something, didn't know how to run the business, didn't know how to train the employees and it went under pretty quick and he has debt, had to declare bankruptcy. It's just a big mess. Big mess and you know he was a contractor. He's not a dumb guy. He just didn't know how to run a retail franchise and yes, there was tons of training but it didn't help. The management wasn't there. My tip and you won't like it at all. Work part time for a branch of that same business if you can, and I know you said you're going to be the only one in the area so you probably can't do that. But I would say get a second job working part time on weekends or something for another franchise owner in a similar niche, a similar business. Become a manager and see what this is all about.

[00:39:58] This will take a while. You might not love it if so though, that's a damn good indication you shouldn't leverage your life savings and take on debt to join in that same business. Look, you might not love working for someone else, but you've got to evaluate whether or not you don't like working for someone else or whether or not you just don't like that business, because you need to know all of the dirty little things that suck doing it. Like you might think, “Oh, gas station is great.” High margins, and that customer's barely ever come in. They just drive through. They get gas and leave. I buy at this price and I sell at this price, but then you've got to realize like us, some of the people who come in at 2 a.m are stealing from you. Oh, you need to Bulletproof glass. Oh, someone's got to clean the bathroom. They'll all hire for that. Okay, well there goes some of your margins, like you need to know these ins and outs because you can either get robbed, blind or just fail. And look, if you do love it, you love working for that other person. You think it's great but you could do a better job. Now you've learned a ton about the business. You've made a ton of little mistakes. You've gotten a lot of training all on someone else's dime and you actually know what you're getting into. Jason, what do you think?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:41:02] I think you should call the other franchisees in the other states and talk to them about their experiences with corporate and if they would take the risk given his circumstances, like lay it out like, “Look, I'm this old, I don't have a lot of savings. How long did it take you to become profitable? Is this a company that you really want to work for?” Because franchisees usually are kind of a talkative bunch. They trade ideas, but they also like to gripe about corporate shafting them over with mandatory sales, like go back in the news and look at the subway outcry from the owners. I think this was like maybe a year, two ago when they were forced to bring back the $5 foot longs. That was a huge thing, but the franchisees had no choice. So I don't know what franchise he's going to open, but there are some times like you said that you know, corporate might not be your best friend. I would also do some competitive analysis in his area and the similar businesses that he will be competing with. I know that's what you said to go get a job at, which would be a great way to get competitive analysis to actually go work there and see if he can compete against them and then take them down if he does decide to do the franchise. And I mean that's really the only thing that I can think of, but I think that would be a good starting point.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:10] Yeah. You've got to do your research on this. You're just asking for trouble. If you don't, and not just Google research. You've got to live this for a couple of months at least. I've got a little pro tip. I fly using something called Clear, which doesn't require me to have ID when I fly, but it only works at certain airports. By the way, I've got some free three months if you want a referral to that. So just email me, jordan@jordanharbinger.com. It's great because it's super fast. They cut you to the front of the line. But here's the problem, I flew to Burbank and they don't have Clear there, but they have it at SFO and LAX and other airports. So I got to Burbank and I was like, “Oh my gosh, I forgot my wallet,” and then trying to fly home. I didn't have any way to prove who I was. They require two forms of identification and I realized, and the TSA guy told me this, he goes, “Do you have any prescriptions?” “No.” “Do you have any utility bills?” “No.” “Do you have any credit cards?” “No.” So now when I fly, I carry an old utility bill that as my current address on it and my name, and I also have an old prescription bottle that has that as well. And I have an emergency credit card, which I believe is expired but doesn't really matter because that will get you through TSA. And I know that coming up in October, every air traveler Jason is going to need a real ID.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:43:24] October 2020.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:25] Okay, so you know this, right? What's going on with that?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:43:28] Yeah, real ideas and new thing. Well actually it's not that new, but the TSA has required people to have quote unquote a real ID compliant license. Not all States have this yet, so it's one of those things where they're not going to take your electricity bill and your prescription to get on the plane. You need a real ID compliant license or another form of ID like your passport or I got a passport card when I renewed my passport, which is really cool because it just fits in your wallet and it was like another five bucks and it looks official but it is official so I can get on a plane with that. But because like one of the states that I was thinking of moving to did not have real ID compliant licenses. So you're going to want to look into that starting in October 1st, 2020, it's going to change. But until then definitely throw those old script bottles in your bag with your library card.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:22] Yeah. You're going to want that. Trust me, it's only a matter of time till someone loses a wallet, gets their wallet stolen and ends up at the airport or it's just buried somewhere and you don't know where it's in the pocket of a pants. It's folded deep in your luggage, organize or checked bag and you go, “Oh crap.” So when your carry on and one of those compartments that you never use have those two things just sitting there.

[00:44:40] Recommendation of the week. Jason, this one's all you.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:44:43] Conversations with a Killer, The Ted Bundy Tapes. Do you know much about Ted Bundy besides?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:48] He was like a really charming dude who then murdered a bunch of women, is a horrible person.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:44:53] Lots and lots of lots and lots of women. He was definitely a horrible person. This is a four part series on Netflix where they have tapes from two journalists who got to actually sit with Ted Bundy while he was, you know, basically a waiting to die on death row. So he could tell his story, and a lot of it is just Ted being Ted, which is a manipulative person. Not really saying that he did anything because he didn't really admit to anything until like, like a day and a half before he got fried in the chair. But the entire story has a lot of interviews behind the scenes that a lot of people haven't seen before because my roommate loves true crime stuff and she's like, this was really good. This showed me more about Ted Bundy than I've ever wanted to know. And me too. I would recommend not watching this before you go to bed because I had nightmares all night last night. But man, this guy was scary and charming and funny, but scary.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:46] I think that's how Joe, isn't that how Joe Navarro kind of got started with what he was doing? He ended up looking for one of the gals that Ted Bundy had killed and he thought if I had just known how to spot this guy, I could've got it.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:46:01] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:01] Yeah, yeah. Frightening, frightening dude. Really good thing. He is no longer with us. Not Joe Navarro. He's great. Ted Bundy, not so great.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:46:11] Joe’s great.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:12] I hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget, you can email us friday@jordanharbinger.com to get your questions answered on the air. We'll always keep you anonymous. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Go back and check out Jaron Lanier are talking about social media manipulation and John Ruhlin talking about gifting, and of course, check out the blog post on the website if you haven't yet.

[00:46:33] If you want to know how I managed to book all these great guests for the show and manage my relationships using these systems and tiny habits, check out our Six-Minute Networking course which is free over at jordanharbinger.com/course. The problem with kicking the can down the road, well you cannot make up for lost time when it comes to relationships and networking. The number one mistake I see people making is postponing this and not digging the well before they get thirsty. Once you need relationships, you are way too late. The drill is take a few minutes per day. That's the way I designed it. Ignore this stuff at your own peril. You can find all that at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm on Instagram and Twitter @JordanHarbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show. And jordanharbinger.com/youtube is where video interviews are on YouTube almost for every single show here. Jason.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:47:17] My personal website is at jpd.me and you can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks at gog.show or your podcast player of choice. And if you dug the Jaron Lanier stuff this week, you should definitely check out the show because we about that stuff all the time.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:30] This show is co-produced with Jen Harbinger and show notes by Robert Fogarty. Keeps sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We got a lot more in the pipe. Very excited for these upcoming shows and in the meantime do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:47:50] If you like our show, you're going to love Rob Has a Podcast on PodcastOne. Join the biggest reality TV podcast around, The Survivor’s Rob Cesternino covers the current season of Celebrity Big Brother and more. Download Rob Has a Podcast every week on PodcastOne or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.