1288: Test Prep | Skeptical Sunday

1288: Test Prep | Skeptical Sunday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I am here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, We decode the story of secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though we do skeptical Sunday, we're a rotating guest co-host, and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as acupuncture, astrology, recycling, chem trails, GMOs, toothpaste, and more.

And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, we have starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation. Psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.

Just visit Jordan [00:01:00] harbinger.com/start, or you can search for us in your Spotify app and those should pop right up. Today we're talking about test prep, not just the books, everything people use to prepare for a standardized test, courses, tutors, apps, all of it. We're not debating whether studying actually helps.

Obviously it does. What we're asking is what prep materials actually do well, where do they cross the line into being overhyped or just outright predatory? And how much of this is genuine help versus manufactured anxiety for profit? How did a few study guides turn into a multi-billion dollar test prep economy?

Helping us cram the answers as writer and researcher Jessica Winn. So let's start with the obvious question here. Our test prep books and courses, are they actually helpful or is all this kind of just vibes?

Jessica Wynn: That's a great way to frame it. Look, they can be helpful. The question is helpful for what and helpful compared to what and helpful for whom.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so great. We're getting philosophical right out of the get. I [00:02:00] like it because I think what people really wanna know is if I drop $500 or $5,000 more like it on a book and a course or whatever, am I buying actual help and peace of mind or am I buying some really expensive anxiety ACC malts,

Jessica Wynn: sometimes all three.

And that's what makes this industry so fascinating and so problematic. Because there is value in some of these materials, but it's all wrapped up in fear inequality and marketing.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. But let's set the stage here. When did this become a thing? My parents did not buy me a $500 book to take the SATs. They were like, good luck.

Use a number two pencil. Try not to embarrass us. And I think like the gunner in our class was like, you gotta go to the Barnes and Noble and get this book. And it said Kaplan on it or something. And I was like, oh, okay. And it was a bunch of practice tests and it was like, Ooh, man, you're really taking this seriously.

You gotta book a practice test. Wow, okay. This guy knows what he's doing. That was the extent of it. Nobody was in a [00:03:00] class in the nineties.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. And nobody had tutors. I don't even think my parents realized I took the SATs. I actually took them twice because my first attempt. When I got out of the car, my graphing calculator fell in the parking lot and I stepped on it.

So I took the math section with just my brain that day.

Jordan Harbinger: That sucks. Brains are definitely substandard equipment these days, by the way. People are probably like, what's a graphing calculator? We either use those things anymore,

Jessica Wynn: I think so. It's probably just an app. I don't remember how big and clunky those things

Jordan Harbinger: were, but yeah, TI 82.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: Then in my school, which is ironic 'cause it was a bunch of like wealthy kids around me, a lot of them, they kept getting stolen and it was like, who's stealing these calculators? And you found out it was like a rich kid stealing all the calculators. And selling 'em. Born entrepreneur, I guess and slash to go to prison.

Yeah. And I remember those things, not that I ever did this, but you could make a file in there and you could save things in [00:04:00] that file. And then the teachers got wise to that. 'cause people would put little cheat sheets in the graphing calculator.

Jessica Wynn: Oh for sure. That's how I passed calculus.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. So then it was like, what if I make a file and the top part looks like I'm just working on a problem.

And then if you scroll down far enough, there's all the answers. And then it was like a game of cat and mouse. And then teachers were like, aha. And then it was like, oh, but there's this other screen that you can get to if you do this. It was just a whole thing. And I remember I got a different graphing calculator 'cause they didn't require you to have a TI I 82 or TI I 83.

I got some other brand and the teacher would just look at it and be like, I don't know how that thing works. Not me. Smart. Uh, some other guy had all of his cheat sheets in that thing and it was like, good luck figuring that out Mr. Hart. You're never gonna get there anyway.

Jessica Wynn: I wonder if it's harder or easier today.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, because you probably can't use your phone. That would be too easy, right? So it's like you gotta use this special thing, but then, I don't know. Look, kids are gonna find a way to cheat. We had a Japanese school that used to run on Sundays or Saturdays at our [00:05:00] school, and they would just use all the classrooms, Japanese.

'cause I guess all the auto suppliers from Japan were working Detroit at that time. And so they wanted their kids to learn more than they were learning in American school and also learn in Japanese. Every Monday you'd come in and you'd find the teeny, tiniest little piece of paper balled up in the little pencil trough on the desk, and you'd be like, ah, what's that?

And you would unroll it, and it would be this microscopic Japanese congee written down. And I remember taking one and showing it to the Japanese teacher and being like, what is this? I find this every Monday on this desk that I sit at, and she's like, this is a cheat sheet for an exam.

Jessica Wynn: Oh man, you jerk.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And I was like, oh, nevermind. And she's like, yeah, yeah. I don't care slash know who that is, so whatever. But yeah, it's like, Hey, bro, clean up your evidence after you're done. Throw this thing somewhere. Don't leave it in the pencil trough. Come on, man.

Jessica Wynn: Those Americans will never be able to read this

Jordan Harbinger: rookie mistake.

Yeah. But then it's like, what do you think this note is in Japanese that I find stashed away every day? Or you'd come back and you'd [00:06:00] open up the desk if you had one of those. And underneath there'd be congee written inside. And it's like, do Japanese people just not know how to look inside? This is the most obvious attempt at cheating.

These kids need to learn. These kids need to learn how to cheat for God's sake,

Jessica Wynn: just like cheating. It still exists, I'm sure, but the approach has evolved a lot. So standardized testing itself goes back decades. The SAT launched in 1926, but the test prep industry as we know it, that really exploded in the eighties and nineties.

You had the rise of companies like Princeton Review founded in 1981 and Kaplan, which started in the forties, but really grew during this period.

Jordan Harbinger: What changed? Why did it suddenly become this massive industry?

Jessica Wynn: I think a few things converged, so college admissions got more competitive. The baby boomer, like Echo meant more kids competing for the same number of spots.

And then there was this growing belief that these tests were coachable, that you could actually improve your score [00:07:00] significantly with the right preparation.

Jordan Harbinger: And someone saw that parental and student anxiety and went, Hey, I can monetize this. There's always somebody ready to sell you a map when you're scared.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, of course. And the pitch is kind of brilliant. Hey, these tests are high stakes. Your entire future depends on them, wouldn't you like some help Books in particular, they took off because they felt like the affordable option. Can't swing this $2,000 prep course. No problem. Here's a $50 book. Same information.

Probably

Jordan Harbinger: the word probably is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I remember when I took the LSAT. My German teacher was like, oh, you need to take a class. You can't just use a book for this. And I was like, ha, it's in a month. I'm not taking a class. Now. Those all started three months ago. Oh, and by the way, they're super expensive.

No, and I just took it with book prep. But yeah, when you get there and you find out everybody else has been in three months of intensive classes, you're like, I'm screwed.

Jessica Wynn: And you can just convince yourself to do bad. And there's also, with all the books, there's a huge range. [00:08:00] So some books are genuinely useful.

They break down the test format. They offer realistic practice questions and teach time management. But others, they don't do so much. Some of them are basically the same exact thing, repackaged over and over, like the same structure, the same advice, the same strategies. They just put a new cover and a slightly different promise on the front of it with like a different font.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh good. A new font. That's all incredibly frustrating, but also not surprising at all.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. And now you've got this whole corporate consolidation thing happening. A few companies own most of the test prep market, so sometimes the same company that makes the test is selling you the prep materials, which seems like a conflict of interest, but what do I know?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Well, so the same people who make the test are selling you the guide to pass the same test that they make. That's crazy. So yeah, we're gonna fail you, but for 200 bucks, we'll tell you why. Oh

Jessica Wynn: my kind of, I mean, it's even worse than that because it's not like everyone [00:09:00] takes the same test with standardized testing.

You've got this vertical integration where. Same corporate entity controls multiple parts of the ecosystem.

Jordan Harbinger: That's weird. 'cause it's called standardized testing. I just assumed that meant everyone takes the same test. Okay.

Jessica Wynn: Even how it's graded. When the essay portions were there, I worked for a CT briefly, and not that this was my position, but the same people who were.

Grading the essays at the A CT. We're also working down the street grading essays at the SAT, which are totally different rubrics. So the whole thing's messy.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. They try and standardize that too, but there's still a human being like, I don't like that point, or, that wasn't well done. And the other person, I just got married.

I love everyone. This is great. You get an A. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know, I just, I don't trust that stuff that it's too subjective, which is the opposite of the point of standardized testing. So they've created the problem and the solution.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Bingo.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. That's a lot of pressure for most of the people who dive into test prep, which are [00:10:00] high school kids and they've gotta prepare for SATs acts.

I had AP exams, and I know some people took PSATs. I don't even know what those are.

Jessica Wynn: I, yeah, I think that's a big money grab, but. The pressure is real. For all of these tests, though, like a narrative has been built, that these tests determine your future, how successful you're gonna be in life, you know, get a good score, go to a good college, get a good job, live happily ever after you get a bad score, you're gonna work at Dairy Queen forever, which is nonsense, but it's the story we tell,

Jordan Harbinger: and that's what prep companies are taking advantage of, the importance of that score.

So are the materials actually helping people with this or not?

Jessica Wynn: They can. For an overwhelmed student, a good prep course, along with its books and apps provides structure. It breaks down the exam sections, explains question types, and just teaches basic strategies. And honestly, just understanding the format of these [00:11:00] tests is huge.

Imagine walking into the SAT without ever seeing what it looks like,

Jordan Harbinger: right? You're like, what is this? The bubbles? What are these? What's all this? Geometry and stuff? Yeah, no thanks.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, exactly. So prep does serve a purpose. The problem is they're also teaching to the test. They're not necessarily making you smarter or better educated.

They're making you better at taking this specific test.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay, but isn't that the whole point? If you need to take the test to get into college, shouldn't you learn how to take the test? I don't need to get smarter, suddenly, I just need to learn how to ace this dumb thing.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, sure. I mean, but here's where it gets messy.

The SAT is supposed to be this objective measure of academic achievement, except study after study shows that high school GPA, regardless of what high school you went to, is actually a better predictor of college success than SAT scores.

Jordan Harbinger: Wait. So we are making everybody lose their mind over a test. And the test doesn't predict the [00:12:00] thing that it claims to predict

Jessica Wynn: pretty much.

And this is where the bias argument gets complicated. So some people say the SAT itself is biased. Others say the test isn't biased, but the system around it is

Jordan Harbinger: okay. But biased could mean a lot of things. What does that actually mean here? I remember they were saying that back when I was in high school.

They're like, it's biased towards wealthy white people. And it was like, why? And there are examples where there's questions about sailing. And the example they gave had nothing to do with sailing. It just had happened to have a sailboat and it, and I'm like, I don't think people who own a sailboat have an advantage.

I always feel like these bias arguments, 50% nonsense. But what does it mean here?

Jessica Wynn: Do you remember when they would say, you always say prefer not to answer on the race questions, whatever question you can, because that gives you a better advantage. It puts you in a different pile than if it was always like, really, that's that.

Anyway,

Jordan Harbinger: that's an easy hack. If that's a thing that sounds like maybe it's a different pile, but can't you just lie? They're not gonna be [00:13:00] like, prove. Well, you probably shouldn't do that either. But still the whole thing to me, I don't know. I know plenty of white, rich kids who bombed all of these SATs and standardized tests.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure, man.

Jessica Wynn: The official lied from the college board is that the test is rigorously reviewed to remove biased questions, and that score gaps mostly reflect unequal K through 12 education, not flaws in the test itself.

Jordan Harbinger: That sounds reasonable, but So who's actually scoring? Well then

Jessica Wynn: this is where the critics start poking holes first.

The SAT has a messy history. It grew out of early 20th century ideas about intelligence that weren't exactly inclusive. They were tied to eugenics IQ testing and the belief that aptitude was fixed and evenly distributed. Often along racial, ethnic, and class lines. And second, even today, wealthier students consistently score higher and not just because they're [00:14:00] smarter.

Jordan Harbinger: Because money buys prep.

Jessica Wynn: Exactly. Money buys, prep time, quiet places to study tutors, coaching, and someone tracking your progress. So the test might be standardized, but access to preparation isn't.

Jordan Harbinger: But there are free options, right?

Jessica Wynn: There are. The Khan Academy offers free SAT prep materials like videos, articles, and practice tests, and it's genuinely solid.

They even partnered with the college board to create it, but free only helps if you have the support to use it. A kid using Khan Academy needs self-discipline, a quiet space, and probably someone checking in on their progress,

Jordan Harbinger: which not every kid has for sure.

Jessica Wynn: And a kid with a $3,000 tutor has a personalized study plan.

Someone holding them accountable and adapting the approach to address their specific weaknesses. Also, families who can afford these prep courses like Barron's or Princeton Review, they just see bigger score [00:15:00] gains.

Jordan Harbinger: Why if the free content is good, why do the expensive options work better?

Jessica Wynn: Because it's not just about the content, it's about that structure and support.

Jordan Harbinger: So even if the test isn't rigged, the outcomes are kind of rigged.

Jessica Wynn: That's the heart of the criticism. And here's another issue. Some research suggests the SAT actually under predicts college performance for black and Hispanic students while slightly over predicting it for white students.

Jordan Harbinger: Sure. Sounds like a lot of the kids don't perform how the test predicts they're gonna perform.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Which raises the question if GPA does a better job predicting success and the test reflects unequal resources more than raw ability, what exactly are we measuring?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, privilege. I guess in some ways, and I hate that word for a lot of reasons, 'cause I think it's sort of overused, but we've created a system where you can buy a better score,

Jessica Wynn: you can buy preparation for a better score.

But yeah, the effect is the same kids born into the top 1% of [00:16:00] income have a one in four chance of getting into elite schools. Kids born in the bottom 20%. It goes to a one in 300 chance.

Jordan Harbinger: That's not a gap that is a chasm. Wow.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and test prep is just one piece of it. Rich parents also have legacy admissions, fancy extracurriculars and expensive sports.

My kid plays lacrosse at a private club with professional coaches. Your kid plays pickup basketball at the park. Guess whose extracurriculars look better on paper?

Jordan Harbinger: The lacrosse kid. So even though my kid might be more resourceful, more resilient, more everything that kid had Better prep. Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. It's just a whole ecosystem that rewards privilege.

Jordan Harbinger: The whole college system kind of rewards privilege, but Okay, so maybe test prep shouldn't be for sale at all? I don't know. That doesn't sound right either.

Jessica Wynn: That's the argument some people make though. And it's why a growing number of schools are going test optional, so they're recognizing that the entire system is skewed.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that makes some sense to me. In China, they tried to [00:17:00] do this, so for people who don't know, they had like afterschool English and afterschool everything. And it became this weird race where it wasn't like some kids who needed English help went to tutors. It was everybody went to tutors for every subject after school.

There was a multi-billion dollar industry in China that was just prep for everything, tutoring for everything. And it got so outta control because people who couldn't afford it, couldn't afford it, and people who could afford it, they were getting another 20 hours of school every week or something. It was just nuts, right?

So they were doing so much better. And so what the government did is just overnight went, Hey, these are illegal. So they just nuked this billion dollar industry or whatever in China. And I remember my Chinese lessons got super, super cheap after that because they were like, we now can hire 8,000 more teachers to do this.

So the supply went way up and their competition went way up because everybody who couldn't teach local Chinese [00:18:00] kids, which was every teacher in China. They were allowed to work on the internet to teach foreigners. And what do they do? What do they teach? Foreigners? Chinese. Chinese. Well, so it went from like a couple of companies teaching online Chinese to half of the teachers in China teaching Chinese online.

Yeah. I remember my company was like, if you renew now at your regular price, you get this. And I was like, can we negotiate? And they were like, honestly, yeah, they cut their prices way down. But anyway, that was good for me. But my point is the whole industry basically got nuked. 'cause it's an authoritarian regime that can say, this business is illegal now and nobody's gonna fight it.

And it was like overnight they just said, you can't do that. But here's the problem. All of those prep schools, they're shut down. So if you were sending your kid to after school, English after school, Chinese history, after school, whatever, those are gone. But if you actually have a lot of money, you hire that teacher that used to teach 20 kids after school and they just come to your class and teach privately, right?

Yes. And that's legal because, and also totally unenforceable, even if it weren't legal. So now it went from, [00:19:00] hey, the top 10% are getting extra tutoring to, hey, now the top 1% are getting private tutoring and everybody else can't get access.

Jessica Wynn: Do you think the universities there made any changes knowing all this?

Jordan Harbinger: I doubt it.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I don't think they did. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, what a perspicacious transition into capitalism. We'll be right back after a few words from the companies who promise not to make you lachrymose. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by HexClad. One day, Jen just decided we're done with mediocre pans and replaced basically all of our cookware with HexClad.

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Something that you can apply right away and it's something you can skim real easy on Wednesday morning, Jordan harbinger.com/news is where you can find it. Now, back to skeptical Sunday. Look, maybe they sort of are supposed to, but what are you gonna do? Not take the highest scoring students because maybe they got extra tutoring.

So that whole don't make it accessible. [00:22:00] One, it doesn't work. Two, it's just unenforceable. Even if you could get a law about it or regulation about it. So I think the test optional thing is probably the way to go. So how many schools are test optional now? And by the way, test optional means what? You didn't take the SATs, but you can still apply to Michigan and they don't say, Hey, where's your SAT score?

Jessica Wynn: They weigh it differently when they're looking at applications. I don't know the specifics, but yeah, you don't have to take the tests. So over 1,804 year colleges and universities in the US are test optional or test flexible, and that number grew significantly during COVID.

Jordan Harbinger: So did testing just move online during COVID?

How did they do that? I remember how strict they were with all the proctoring.

Jessica Wynn: Remember, no one knew what the hell to do. And I think standardized tests just weren't very high on people's list of concerns. But COVID was this massive disruption and testing centers closed. Students just couldn't take the SAT or a CT, they didn't have the capacity to move it all online.[00:23:00]

And you know what they found? They could still identify qualified students. Their freshman classes didn't suddenly become unqualified disasters

Jordan Harbinger: because they were using grades, which they found our better predictor anyway. Basically, the tests were never as essential as they always claimed to be for the last century.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Seems to be. And many schools liked the test optional policy because it increased applications. More applications means lower acceptance rates, which makes them look more selective, which improves their rankings, and

Jordan Harbinger: they charge application fees anyway. So if you're paying a hundred bucks to apply, yeah, okay, we got a thousand more applications.

Darn. We have to hire an extra person to go through it or start a week earlier. So revenue generators. Great. So it sounds like even the solution to the problem is driven by these weird incentives, though.

Jessica Wynn: I think that's just American higher education. Its incentives all the way down,

Jordan Harbinger: and the tests keep changing.

I feel like that's part of the scam. The SAT announces, Hey, we've updated the test and suddenly your older brother's prep book from last year is useless, and the [00:24:00] course login expired

Jessica Wynn: and the scoring is changing too. So you have to know what's new that you're prepping for. The a CT just announced they're broadening their score reporting, so they're going to keep the traditional 36 point scale.

Now students will also get scores on two new readiness indicators, which are career readiness and understanding complex texts.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh? What does that even mean? Probably a good idea, but are they asking 16 year olds how to file a W2? I don't get it.

Jessica Wynn: No. It's more like, can you interpret workplace documents? Can you analyze technical information?

But here's the thing, these changes require new prep materials, new books, new courses. The test evolves and the prep industry evolves with it. And everyone makes money

Jordan Harbinger: except the students. Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. The students pay money. Whether they make money later is unclear.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I remember I took, I think it was the A CT, or maybe this was even the lsat, I don't know.[00:25:00]

And they were like, Hey, your score will be ready in, I don't know, 10 weeks, but if you want it in three weeks or four weeks, you can pay $10 on a credit card and call this number. And I was like, I am not giving you $10 to get a score early that you already have that you're going to mail me. That means that you're waiting an extra month or two to mail me because you just want me to pay 10 bucks to get the score on your phone system.

So I absolutely refuse to do that. And I remember telling all the, my friends at law school that I was like, I didn't pay those suckers 10 extra dollars. And they were like, how did you sleep? Like I didn't sleep until I got that score, and you're just over here waiting for this letter in the mail. And I was like, the trick is, man, don't care.

Don't care. Didn't get into law school. No big deal. And then I got my score and I was like, it's fine. It's wild to think that the test changed that much, but the whole thing was a racket from the jump man.

Jessica Wynn: Oh, of course. Every little piece of it. And the SAT has gone through multiple revisions over the years and all the tests have, [00:26:00] but the SAT specifically removed the essay requirement.

They made the vocabulary less obscure. They added a no calculator math section, and every time they change it, there's this wave of panic. Like the test is different. You have to buy new materials.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. No more Lac ramoses and perspicacious. I studied those words.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Sorry. Unless you throw one of them in this conversation naturally and correctly, it was wasted effort.

Jordan Harbinger: That's a perspicacious observation.

Jessica Wynn: I'm not embarrassed to say I don't even know what that means.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. How remos indeed that you don't know what it means, but does it change that much? And if there are changes, do the prep materials stay up to date? How do you. Even choose between the 50 different brands of stuff for sale.

Is one really better than the others?

Jessica Wynn: There are real differences between brands, but the marketing makes it sound like choosing between them is a life or death situation, which really, it's more like choosing between a Fuji or a gala. Apple.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:00] So they're the same, but some people prefer one over the other.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, pretty much. Princeton Review is known for being strategy focused. They're all about test taking techniques, not knowledge. And Barron's is known for making practice questions way harder than the test. So the test will feel easy. So some students lose confidence studying with Barron's.

Jordan Harbinger: Wait, so they set kids up to feel like failures?

That's a, don't worry. It's for your own good.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Unintentionally, I hope. But then there's Kaplan, which is the middle ground, and the book is really just an introduction to their online courses and tutoring. Then there's new players like Prep Expert, which was founded by a guy who got a perfect SAT score, which his material mentions constantly

Jordan Harbinger: so annoying.

Hi, I'm Chad. I got a 1600 on the SAT. Let me tell you my secrets, which are not just getting lucky and having a photographic memory,

Jessica Wynn: don't date. But yeah, none of that would work for me. But all the prep offers strategy and some of it is [00:28:00] useful, but some of it seems to be just motivational speaking, disguised as prep.

Believe in yourself and you'll score high. My favorite strategy tip from a real prep book I saw is try not to cry during the math section. It smudges the Scantron.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Yeah. But that is good advice though. Although number two, pencil doesn't really smear that much with tears. Ask me how I know.

Jessica Wynn: Oh no, I'm sorry.

I mean, the best advice is only cry in the shower. I don't know. But as far as the books, the official college board and a CT books. They just give you real practice tests with no frills, usually from old expired tests. Those are actually valuable because you're practicing with real questions.

Jordan Harbinger: So that's what people should buy.

Jessica Wynn: It's a good place to start no matter what. You don't need to buy all of them. The companies want you to think you need multiple books, several courses in-app purchases and social media validation, but they're all basically sharing the same [00:29:00] strategies.

Jordan Harbinger: So what should people watch out for when choosing prep materials

Jessica Wynn: so much?

If a book or course promises to raise your score by 200 points, ask yourself how could they possibly guarantee that for every student, they can't. So don't fall for secret strategies. They're usually things like,

Jordan Harbinger: read

Jessica Wynn: the question carefully. New additions are usually the same from five years ago, but the cover says 2026 edition, and the price has gone up.

And if anything says to always guess c. If you don't know the answer, return it or throw it out because that is a myth.

Jordan Harbinger: So that's not true. I take it.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it never was. The tests are designed so that answer choices are distributed evenly, but this myth persists because it gives students a sense of control, but it's false control.

The good prep materials focus on actual skills and understanding the bad ones sell you shortcuts and hacks that don't work.

Jordan Harbinger: What a waste of money and study time and the test prep books are [00:30:00] marketed as some great equalizer. Like we said, can't afford a tutor buy a hundred dollars book,

Jessica Wynn: and the book only helps if you have time to use it, if you have parental support.

That quiet place, it just assumes a level of privilege that not all students have, and the bigger conversation is why are we putting so much weight on a four hour test taken on a Saturday morning when you're 17?

Jordan Harbinger: And it's usually like be there at seven 30 and you're like, dude, my brain doesn't function.

And so you're giving an advantage to people who happen to be morning people, which very few teenagers are. It's really stupid. I always thought that, and I would get up super early and it's okay, I gotta drink coffee and stuff. It was just totally ridiculous. And then you find Adderall and you're like, oh, okay.

Now it all makes sense anyway, when you put it like that. This is all insane. All right, that's high school. But what about when you're trying to get into a grad school? You got the GRE, you got the gmat, the lsat, all that stuff.

Jessica Wynn: This is where things get more interesting because these tests are weird. Logic games, [00:31:00] data interpretation, argument analysis.

If you've never seen these formats before you take the exams, you're at a massive disadvantage.

Jordan Harbinger: I remember the LSAT Logic games. These are literally questions like, if Alice sits next to Bob, and Carol can't sit next to David, and Bob always sits next to both Frank and Alice, and you're like, yeah, dude, get a bigger table, but it's a million of those and you have to draw them, and things like that so that you can visualize it or it's just, yeah,

Jessica Wynn: it seems absurd.

But the thing is, these tests do measure something. So the Logic Games test your ability to work within complex rule sets and constraints, which is actually relevant to legal reasoning.

Jordan Harbinger: So these tests are more legitimate than the SAT,

Jessica Wynn: not necessarily more legitimate, but they're testing different, more specialized skills.

And because the formats are so unusual. Prep materials can genuinely help repeated exposure to the same logical forms, does improve performance, and good [00:32:00] materials are written by actual instructors who've taught thousands of students and know exactly where people struggle.

Jordan Harbinger: So there are good and bad options even at that higher level.

Jessica Wynn: Oh, absolutely. The good ones break down the logic behind each question type show you why answers are right and why the wrong answers are wrong, and they give you strategies that are based on understanding not tricks

Jordan Harbinger: and the bad books and courses. What do they do?

Jessica Wynn: They just make ridiculous promises. They go from one 50 to one 70 and four weeks, which just ignores that.

You can't build fundamental reading and analytical skills in a month, or they push pseudoscientific study systems. Use our left brain right brain method,

Jordan Harbinger: right? Total nonsense.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, complete nonsense. The whole left brain, right brain thing is a myth that's been debunked for decades, but it sounds scientific, so publishers still use it.

And then there's the bundling and upselling. The book is just a funnel to get you to buy their expensive online [00:33:00] courses. They're secret question banks or their coaching packages. There's all kinds of stuff like that.

Jordan Harbinger: It's kinda like a drug dealer. The first hit is cheap or free. But hey, if you want the good stuff, you know,

Jessica Wynn: that is the business model.

And for grad school tests, it works because the stakes are so high. You're not just trying to get into college, you're trying to get into law school or med school or business school, which directly impacts your career and earning potential.

Jordan Harbinger: At this level, each test has its own prep culture. There's more of a, you will fail without this specific prep material mentality.

Like I said, when I took the lsat, even professors were like, you have to take a class for this. You have to. And I was like, uh, oops.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. And the LSAT crowd is particularly intense. There's this whole Reddit community where people compare scores, they share strategies. They just obsess over which prep materials to use.

It's like a support group crossed with some insane competition.

Jordan Harbinger: That sounds right, [00:34:00] because it's lawyers.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: And so we are all hyper Michigan. Hyper competitive and people did crazy things. Apparently all like top tier schools are like this, where you'd go to the library and you'd go, I cannot find this reference material.

And the librarian would go, okay, let me find it. And she would go and go, oh, it's missing. And you're like, okay, when do you think you might find it? And she goes, what is this for? And you're like, it's for an exam that's due tomorrow. And she's like, Uhhuh, okay, who's the professor? And you're like, this person.

And then she has to call and go, some asshole took the test book that all of your students need and hid it. And you're like, how do you know they didn't? Just check it out. You're not allowed to. It's reference. It stays at this desk and I've been here for blah, blah, blah, which means somebody went and got it and stashed it.

And like it's a library, so there's no RFID. Now they probably have RFID or something, but like you have to look through the whole library and maybe they put it in their backpack. So like it's just gone. And so the professor has to [00:35:00] email and be like, the deadline is now Tuesday. You don't need this. I've copied the relevant thing, here it is.

And if I find out who did this, I'm going to kill you. And they never find who did it, because who's going to admit that they did that? How are you gonna find a book that somebody threw in the forest? Now you could probably look on camera, but back then you couldn't. Anyway, that's just an example of the type of crap that would go down at Michigan.

It was actually insane. Anyway. So what are the go-to materials for the LSAT these days?

Jessica Wynn: The gold standard is the official LSAT prep tests, which is published by lsat, the organization that makes the test. So these are actual retired LSATs. So you're practicing with the real questions. You've got Power score, Bibles, logic game, Bible, logical reasoning, Bible Reading, comprehension Bible that goes on and on.

My Bibles. Yeah, it's Fear Marketing at its finest, but students feel pressure to buy four or five different essential [00:36:00] books and courses per exam, and social media makes it worse. If you're not using what I'm using, are you even studying?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Again, even using the word Bible is ominous, but I suppose they're comprehensive.

That's the idea.

Jessica Wynn: Definitely. But the problem is they're dense. We're talking 500 plus pages per book, and you're supposed to work through all three. There is the online LSAT trainer, which is more streamlined, or Manhattan Prep, which focuses just on strategy, but students stress about choosing the right test prep.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It must be extra complicated choosing GRE prep because it's the test for so many different Master's degrees. It's just totally, it's one test for every graduate degree almost. It's crazy.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and the prep materials for the GRE are interesting because they try to be this one size fits all, so they end up not great for anyone specific, but I guess it gets the job done.

Practice tests are what preparing for the GRE is all about. Because the GRE tests, [00:37:00] verbal reasoning and quantitative reasoning and the vocab is brutal. Like for the GRE, you do need to know remos.

Jordan Harbinger: Ugh. Okay. Wait, I thought you said they took those words out of the SAT, but so the GRE still has all that crap.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Yeah. They took 'em outta the SAT, but the GRE loves them. So there are whole books dedicated just to GRE vocabulary. Students make flashcards, they use vocab apps like Magosh, and they spend months memorizing words they will never use again.

Jordan Harbinger: My GRE story is actually completely ridiculous. So what happens with the G, at least back in the day, and it's probably still like this.

If you did well in the beginning it would get harder and if you didn't do as well, it would get easier. So if you bombed a bunch of vocab words or they would get a little bit lighter, if you did well on a bunch of math, it would get a little bit harder. And for some reason I bombed the vocab, which is weird 'cause I have a decent vocab.

But you're right, I didn't have Lac Mose and whatever, all these other [00:38:00] words at the tip of my tongue because I thought, oh, I did well on verbal sections before, I'll be fine. Not how it works with the Jerry and with math, I was like, well, I'm not doing a math degree of any kind, so I just have to do not terrible.

Or maybe they don't even care about that. So I took the math section and I didn't really study for it and I'm not good at math okay at all. And I took the math section and I was like, oh crap, I didn't bring a special calculator for this. I don't really know how to solve any of this. And it's all multiple choice.

So I'm guessing my way through the math section and it's just getting more ridiculous. Like it's instead of just a parabola, now it's got these symbols I've never seen before and it's like, how is this happening? It went from algebra to way harder algebra and calculus to way harder calculus to way harder stuff that I don't even think is calculus.

'cause I've never seen it, even though I took calculus in college and I walked out of there just dizzy. And a couple weeks later I get my results and my mask score is [00:39:00] fire, like off the charts. Good. And I ended up getting a letter from MIT that was like, we'll fly you out here, put you up in a hotel. Or maybe it's a dorm.

I don't know. We want you to take another special proctored math test. And if you do as well in that test as you did on the GRE, we have a full or partial scholarship for you in one of our programs. So I guessed my way through the math section of the GRE so well that it caught the attention of MIT's mathematics program.

Wow. And they were like dangling this scholarship in front of my face, which is actually hilarious because I didn't pass calculus and I had a tutor for algebra in college. Okay. Like a hardcore tutor in high school for math. It's not my thing. That's a test design issue. First of all, if I can do that. But the fact that the whole test makes somebody like me bomb the vocab section and ace the math section, that was all the info I needed to know that this was complete nonsense.

Jessica Wynn: What is that about? Yeah, it's the ultimate fake it till you [00:40:00] make it and jeez.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But it was also like, okay, this test doesn't do anything. Nothing that it's supposed to do anyway, so is the GMAT any different? That's the business school one, right?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. The GMATs for Business School, it's kind of its own special hell.

It has this section called Data Sufficiency that literally makes people cry.

Jordan Harbinger: We're unpacking how the test prep industry figured out how to monetize teenage panic. Let's take a quick break so we can monetize something slightly less soul crushing. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Wayfair.

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It's the neighborhood. If you got kids, it's also schools nearby parks, transportation options. That's why Homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers, the in-depth information they need to find the right home. It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in-depth information, I'm talking deep.

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Homes.com, we've done your homework. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here, keeps my kids flush with test prep books and courses. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals.

Now back to skeptical Sunday. What is data sufficiency?

Jessica Wynn: Well, it gives you a question and two statements, and you have to determine if the statements together give you enough information to answer the question, but you don't actually have to answer the question.

Jordan Harbinger: That actually sounds fun, if not a little confusing.

Jessica Wynn: It's definitely a little confusing, but it's really meta. So you're testing whether you can answer, not answering, and it breaks people's brains. The prep materials for the GMAT are [00:43:00] all about mastering this weird format. Manhattan Prep, Veritas, the official guide from GMAC. There's Instagram and Reddit groups about the gmat, and they're just people stressing so hard.

It's kind of entertaining to scroll through.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh God, I'm so glad I didn't have social media like that when I took the el. That must make things much worse because back then you'd go to your smart friends and go, oh my God, what do I do? And they go, did you buy a prep book? And you go, yeah. And they're like, okay, are you going through it?

And you're like, yeah. And they're like, you're gonna be fine. You're like, ah. But if you go on social media, it's, did you buy 17 prep books? And did you go through the online course and did you get the CD ROMs? You know that guy over here? He got a perfect score. So now they're changing the whole curve. This year.

I heard they're gonna give us less time. No, that's not true. How do you know? Like it's just that over and over,

Jessica Wynn: you're just wasting all this time.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. All your study time is you, or all your sleep time is you stressing about this and reading people on Reddit who are taking it and heard from their brother's, cousin's friend's, uncle who knows a guy that works at college board that they're gonna change the test this year.

And it's like, no, they're [00:44:00] not.

Jessica Wynn: Right. Yeah. Social media definitely makes things worse. There's discord servers, there's Facebook groups and they're just sharing their own personalized study plans. But there's just this constant comparison. I'm taking this course. What are you using? Almost like test shaming or something.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. So now they're competing over who has the most elaborate study set up?

Jessica Wynn: Right. And it creates this anxiety spiral. You see someone post. I just scored a 1 75 on my practice test using power score Bibles, and you think, oh no, I'm using something different. Maybe that's why I am not scoring as high,

Jordan Harbinger: even though correlation doesn't equal causation, et cetera.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and maybe that person was already good at standardized tests. Maybe they're naturally strong in logical reasoning, but your brain goes, they have more prep materials and they're doing better, so I need to buy more prep materials.

Jordan Harbinger: It couldn't be that they're just lying on the internet to make other people feel bad.

That never happens. It's the same [00:45:00] psychology as seeing someone's perfect Instagram life and thinking your own life is inadequate by comparison. And there's a part of you that's like, I don't think she lives on yachts and at fancy beachfront hotels, but I don't know. It sure looks like she does.

Jessica Wynn: Oh, his kitchen looks like Home Depot.

Yeah, but the prep companies love this because it drives sales and they don't have to advertise. So the students are advertising for them by posting about their materials online. And then there are really nerdy influencers, people who scored really high, and they now have YouTube channels or TikTok accounts where they share their study methods.

And some of it can be helpful. Sure. Some of it's just humble bragging, but they all have affiliate links. Use my code for 10% off this prep course. Everybody's just making money.

Jordan Harbinger: So now those people are profiting off of other fellow students' anxiety. And the Grif just goes deeper and deeper.

Jessica Wynn: Right? It really does.

And look, I'm not saying all these resources are bad. Some YouTube channels offer genuinely free, helpful [00:46:00] content, but it has become toxic in a lot of ways. Students feel like if they're not constantly consuming test prep content, they're falling behind. It's unhealthy and it's the worst in the MCAT world.

The MCAT is the medical school entrance exam, and it's part science test, part reading marathon part experiment in human endurance,

Jordan Harbinger: but it weeds out the week, right? The exam itself is like eight hours long, or seven and a half hours long. But I want my doctors to have high MCAT scores so that I know they can think under pressure for seven straight hours.

I think it maybe that should be advertised when looking for a doctor. But then again, it is a test and it's probably not a test of how good of a doctor you are.

Jessica Wynn: That's definitely why they hang their degrees on the wall. But studying for professional exams like MCAT, U-S-M-L-E boards and the bar are intimidating by design.

The sheer size of the book makes you feel like it must be comprehensive. It must have everything I need, but for something like the mcat. There is [00:47:00] useful content in there, and the MCAT covers an insane amount of material biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, psychology, on and on, and good prep materials can condense that into digestible summaries and highlight the high yield topics.

Jordan Harbinger: High yield sounds like med school speak for This will definitely be on the test.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and students become obsessed with finding the high yield content because they can't possibly study everything in depth. And here's where it gets dark. The industry has created this culture of you will fail without this material.

I saw a cover that really had printed on it in all caps. Everything you must know or you'll die and so will your patients.

Jordan Harbinger: That is terrifying. Buy this book or commit medical malpractice slash murder.

Jessica Wynn: It's fear marketing at its absolute finest. And for the MCAT alone, you might buy the Kaplan seven [00:48:00] book set the exam cracker set, and then add the Princeton review courses for good measure.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's not reasonable to think you're gonna go through all that prep

Jessica Wynn: and it's so expensive and nobody reads all of them. But there's this anxiety that if you don't buy them, you are not doing enough. Pre-med students are all over social media too, posting their study stacks on Reddit and pictures of just bookshelves full of materials.

If you're not using Kaplan and exam crackers and this other thing, are you even serious about med school? It's exhausting. And plus some of these are total scams.

Jordan Harbinger: Really at that level, people are getting scammed.

Jessica Wynn: Oh yeah. I mean, outdated material. Repackaged as a new addition with a higher price tag.

Materials that blatantly copy from each other. Question, banks that are poorly written and don't actually match the exam style. All of that can hurt your performance

Jordan Harbinger: so you can actually study the wrong way and end [00:49:00] up doing worse.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, absolutely. If you practice with bad questions or the wrong format, you're essentially training your brain incorrectly.

It's like practicing basketball on a hoop that's two feet too low, everything feels great in practice, and then you get to the real game and suddenly nothing works. There's actually a very public recent example of this. Kim Kardashian failed the bar exam and said it was because she had studied with chat GPT.

So someone with every resource at her fingertips and she now claims she failed because she was using the wrong preparation method.

Jordan Harbinger: So wait, first of all, chat. GPT gives bar exam study advice and people are actually taking it. I mean, that's a you problem dude,

Jessica Wynn: apparently. Which first of all, right? Bold choice.

And second, let's be clear, this was not a, she had no resources situation. I bet she absolutely had tutors, plural. Very expensive ones.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But as someone who like made the [00:50:00] test or something, I'm guessing they didn't wanna be in the Instagram post announcing the failure of their student who is either too dumb to have succeeded or didn't study.

Jessica Wynn: No tutor wants that credit. But the larger point stands, AI is not a substitute for actual test prep. It can hallucinate facts, give outdated information, misunderstand the format, or confidently explain the wrong answer. So it can be a tool, it's just not the only tool.

Jordan Harbinger: The big test prep companies must know this.

Come on,

Jessica Wynn: for sure. Kaplan Barber, all of them are already building their own AI systems, but those are being trained specifically on the test, the format, the scoring logic, not whatever the internet happened to cough up.

Jordan Harbinger: Chad, GBT is like that one confident guy in class who won't shut up, but is clearly not done any of the reading.

I

Jessica Wynn: mean, yeah, there's always one of those guys. The takeaway here is that you can still fail if you prepare the [00:51:00] wrong way. So quality is what matters.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. So don't lose your mind if you can't afford every bit of material out there. This leads us to something I'm wondering about, just the mental health aspect of all this.

There's gotta be a lot of stories about this.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it's brutal and a massive problem that doesn't get talked about enough. So students feel like if they're not constantly engaging with the prep material, then they're slacking and it pushes already stress students into Gelt driven spending and over studying.

So burnout is real, and the books and courses themselves contribute to this. They're designed to make you feel like there's always more you could be doing.

Jordan Harbinger: Preparation for the tests alone is definitely its own source of stress,

Jessica Wynn: and we're seeing real consequences. So test anxiety is through the roof.

Students having panic attacks on test day, depression, burnout, imposter syndrome. Some students get so anxious they physically fall apart. There's reports of sudden [00:52:00] migraines, nausea, shaking hands, racing heart. That awful feeling like you can't quite get a full breath. It's all incredibly common.

Jordan Harbinger: People don't just get nervous though.

Their bodies straight up revolt. During my lsat, I remember you sit down and there's a guy next to you or something or a girl next to you and the girl on my right didn't want to talk at all. She was just really like focused and looking at notes and I was like, oh, don't talk to her. And the guy on my left was like, yeah, I'm already a lawyer.

And I don't know, I remember this being like tough. But I took the California bar and I passed and that guy left after like 20 minutes he just got up and left. And I remember thinking like, this is a long bathroom break. And then he just never came back.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I saw somebody walk out of the GRE like five minutes in and they were visibly shaking and I remember somebody barfing before it, people get freaked out and it messes with your brain too.

There are plenty of documented cases of students just blanking on material. They absolutely know. [00:53:00] Many reports staring at the page, unable to comprehend the test like it's written in another language. And others fixate so hard on the clock that they don't finish. And some people just shut down and it can get even more extreme.

There have been medical emergencies during high stakes exams, people fainting, people collapsing. None of this is uncommon.

Jordan Harbinger: My cousin told me about this bar exam story where somebody basically had a heart attack taking the New York bar and everyone was like, ah, still fucking question number 10. Like nobody did anything.

Obviously people were freaking out, but not really stopping the exam. You know about this.

Jessica Wynn: Was this at Hofstra?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I think so.

Jessica Wynn: I was going to bring this up. It was a young, healthy woman who had graduated law school. Yeah. And she collapsed and went into cardiac arrest.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, so I heard about this and I don't know if my cousin was there just telling me about this because every law student in the world heard about it at the time, but oh my gosh, [00:54:00] how terrible was she?

Okay. I would like to think she's okay.

Jessica Wynn: She was okay. She was rushed to the hospital like, but what shocked people wasn't just the medical emergency. It was that according to everybody there, you can verify this with your cousin, the exam wasn't stopped and students were told to just keep working while CPR was happening just a few feet away from them.

Jordan Harbinger: That's actually insane. Nothing says professional responsibility, like stepping over an ambulance gurney with a dying person on it to finish question 1 43. I know. That's so weird.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and the incident triggered outrage across the legal community, but it did force the New York State Board of Law Examiners to.

Say it was reviewing its procedures. I don't know if anything actually changed, but it fueled a lot of calls for test reform. The clock should stop argument asking whether any tests should continue when someone's life is on the line.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that [00:55:00] should not be up for debate. I don't know. Controversial take,

Jessica Wynn: but the pressure is immense.

There might be some people in the room who'd be pissed if the test was stopped, so it goes both ways, but severe test anxiety, it even qualifies as an actual anxiety disorder. And students with diagnosed anxiety, they can sometimes get accommodations like extra time or a separate testing room, more breaks if they have documentation from a psychiatrist.

Jordan Harbinger: But of course, getting that documentation also costs money.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. The evaluation itself can be hundreds of dollars. So once again, wealthier students have an advantage.

Jordan Harbinger: Of course they do, and it's students with healthcare, but in America, that means people who have. Money 'cause they have healthcare.

Jessica Wynn: The test prep industry doesn't help.

They sell materials full of this motivational content, but they don't actually address the root causes of the anxiety, which is the high stakes nature of the test itself and all this systemic pressure [00:56:00] around it.

Jordan Harbinger: So is there science on this?

Jessica Wynn: Oh yeah. There's tons of research and the evidence is pretty clear on what works.

Space repetition, active recall, and practice under test like conditions. Those are the big three, but everyone crams anyway. And the good prep methods, they all align with this.

Jordan Harbinger: Students taking these exams, they don't need cheerleaders. They need somebody to explain why the answer is B and not C.

Jessica Wynn: If the material has lots of realistic questions with detailed explanations, that's a green flag.

The courses should guide students to understand why things are right and wrong. If it spends more pages on branding and like proprietary systems than on actual practice, that's a big red flag.

Jordan Harbinger: How should someone actually use test prep effectively? Is there any wisdom to that that we can share?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, there's a lot of thoughts on it.

First, you don't wanna read any material like a novel, so don't start on page one and read straight through. You wanna [00:57:00] start with a practice test to identify your weak areas, then drill those sections specifically. Always track your progress, make notes on the types of questions you're getting wrong, and adjust your study plan based on data, not feelings.

The Feynman technique is great for complex topics

Jordan Harbinger: named after physicist Richard Feinman. So what is that exactly?

Jessica Wynn: So you explain a concept as if you're teaching it to a child. If you can explain it simply, you don't really understand it. So you identify gaps in your knowledge and go back and study those specific areas.

He was famous for being able to explain quantum mechanics in terms anyone could understand, and this process of simplifying complex ideas forces you to truly grasp them. There's also the pomodora technique for managing study time. You work in focused 25 minute blocks and then take a five minute break that prevents [00:58:00] burnout and keeps you from getting overwhelmed

Jordan Harbinger: so you're not staring at the screen for four hours straight and retaining nothing.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Right. And your brain can only focus and intensely for so long. So short, bursts with breaks are more effective than marathon sessions. And then there's interleaving, which means mixing up subjects instead of studying one thing for hours, forces your brain to work harder to distinguish between concepts, which strengthens your understanding.

So instead of doing 50 math problems in a row, you do 10 math, 10 reading, 10 science, then back to math and it feels harder, but the learning sticks better.

Jordan Harbinger: This is bringing up some of my personal trauma from taking the bar exam. My God,

Jessica Wynn: the bar exam is its own beast. And it's not just about knowing the law, it's about knowing how to answer bar exam questions, which is a completely different skill, as you know.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So the bar tests your ability to apply legal principles to fact patterns [00:59:00] under time pressure. So you could be a brilliant legal scholar and still in theory, fail the bar because you don't know the specific format and the strategy, or you just needed too much time because you take a lot of time to craft your arguments.

And I'm sure by the way, that that was Kim Kardashian's problem. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. She was so thorough that she ran out of time.

Jessica Wynn: You're so kind. But this is why good prep is essential. So most people take a bar prep course like Barbie, Theus, Kaplan. These courses cost three to four grand and they basically consume your life for two to three months.

Jordan Harbinger: We'll be back with more cheerful topics like inequality, manufactured scarcity, and teens crying in bathroom stalls at 6:00 AM but first ads we'll be right back.

And now for the rest of skeptical Sunday, I remember the lectures and the practice questions. And the simulated exams and the study schedules, they told me exactly what to do every single day. Today you're gonna watch four hours of lectures and do [01:00:00] 50 practice questions. It is exhausting, but it is structured and it's super expensive.

Whoever decided preparing for a test should cost as much of as a used car. It's that expensive. It's crazy to me.

Jessica Wynn: And there's a reason it got that insane Barb's parent company, west Publishing. They got hit with an antitrust class action.

Jordan Harbinger: I know all about this because they have insane policies and it was actually one of my buddies from my law school, he sued them.

Jessica Wynn: Oh, crazy.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And he got like a $60 million settlement. Because what they did is they agreed with other test prep companies, Hey, we are gonna handle the bar and other people can handle this other one. So there was no competition. So Kaplan was basically like, oh, we just won't have bar prep. We'll just let West do it.

And in Return West was probably, I can't remember the exact details, but West gave Kaplan, I don't know, the MCAT or something like that. So they said you guys we're gonna make more money if we don't compete and we just actually collude, which is illegal. And so [01:01:00] they carved at the market allocation, less competition, higher prices, et cetera.

And West paid into a settlement fund, but of course denied wrongdoing. Bunch of dicks. But they had other insane policies. Like for the bar to take the New York bar, you had to go to New York. Imagine being a student and you have to rent an apartment in Manhattan for three months so that you can go to lectures and then study in that apartment.

It's totally ridiculous. So this one enterprising gal in my class, what she did is she said, Hey, there's enough of us that wanna take the New York bar here at Michigan. Send us tapes of the lectures and we'll watch them. And they were like, oh, we have to be able to trust you. 'cause if you make copies of the tapes, we could lose money and blah, blah, blah.

So we all had to go and watch this tape in a classroom in Ann Arbor. So even people who lived in, I don't know, Alabama had to stay all summer in Ann Arbor, Michigan, paying Ann Arbor rent and food and study there instead of at home with their family or whatever, so that they could watch [01:02:00] two hours of VHS nonsense, take notes on it and go home and study every day.

And I did not wanna do that. And so I said, can't you just allow me to take these materials? I'm not gonna share them. I'll pay for it. And they were like, no. And I said, what if I can't watch the tapes for some reason? And they were like. You would need a really good reason for that. And I won't say too much about how he gave them a really good reason for that, but they can't ask you to prove that really good reason.

They tried, but then it was like, oh, and you also can't be in the continental United States, or I think in like Paris or Berlin or whatever, where they also offer New York prep exam prep things. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna be in a Caribbean island. And they were like, bs. I want a non-refundable airline ticket and a hotel booking.

So I went online and I bought a non-refundable ticket in a hotel and I went to the Caribbean and I studied for the bar on the beach with an iPod. And they did not want me to do that. They even sent me all these like documents you had to sign and all this crap. And then they were like, and by the way, if you plug this [01:03:00] iPod in, it's a special iPod that will call us and tell us that you're copying it and it'll destroy.

And I was like, let me stop you right there. Apple's not letting you do that. And we both know that that's bullshit. So f you and I'm going to copy this to another device and there's nothing you can do about it. And this company was crooked as hell and they charged you like extra to do it. And this is for disabled people.

These people deserved to be sued into oblivion. And that's what my friend did.

Jessica Wynn: And they still exist. Good on your friend and good for you. I mean, going to the Caribbean for a couple months, way cheaper than New York.

Jordan Harbinger: It was cheaper than staying in Ann Arbor to study. That's the most insane, ridiculous part is that's how much they're ripping you off everywhere.

One of the best parts of this sort of legacy from my buddy's lawsuit is that Kaplan is now forced to offer bar prep, and so they are forced to compete with one another. I don't exactly know how you enforce that because can't you both just now charge way too much, which is I'm sure what they do, but

Jessica Wynn: yeah, I don't know how much it costs now.

No wonder the pricing is so deranged. Plus, even [01:04:00] though one course provides all the materials, some people on top of these costs, they're buying extra books and courses because they're just so anxious about failing. And the advertising makes it seem like there's one piece of information inside that no other test prep has.

And the fact is the bar exam is hard and you need more than test prep to pass the pass rate for the bar. It varies by state, but it can be low as like 40% in some places.

Jordan Harbinger: Geez, that's terrifying. So you've already been through four years of college, three years of law school, and you might still fail. And if you fail.

You have to take it again and you have to pay again. Usually for the exam, usually the prep, they let you keep it 'cause you know you still have it. But then you gotta deal with the shame and anxiety. So, which by the way is not nothing because everyone knows I know what you're thinking. Oh, just don't tell people you failed.

It's not quite that simple because if you fail, usually you've got a job offer before that. And so there was a [01:05:00] woman at my law firm and another guy at my law firm, and our job started 'cause they got a job offer and the jobs, okay, what you're gonna do is study when you're not working and basically they just don't give those people any work.

So you realize like, oh, jts not on any projects. Oh yeah, he's studying for the bar and it's like, oh, he failed the bar because otherwise he would've taken it, you know, earlier, right before the job started. And then you get people who fail again and it's like, Hey, we've been working here for a year and you're just sitting in a room studying for the bar.

Getting paid, by the way, by the law firm, and that's kind of nice, but it also is totally counteracted by the fact that the entire office knows that you failed the bar exam two times.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, the resentment.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So it's tough and you feel bad because these are not dumb people at all. Okay? These are smart people who made it through law school.

Failed the standardized test. The reason I'm giving Kim Kardashian extra sweat is one, she's a billionaire and has resources to get a tutor. And two, I don't believe she went to law school. I think she's just taking the bar and being like, [01:06:00] I don't need law school. Which is not true apparently, given her first attempt was a giant mess.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. In California you just need a lawyer to sponsor you, right?

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. And if you're Kim Kardashian, you can just ask one of daddy's friends to say that you're good enough to practice law and ta-da. You're good enough to practice law as long as you pass the bar so people throw money at any resources.

That might help, I suppose, when it comes to this, to avoid the shame, the anxiety, and dealing with that. Is there anything in your $500 book that's not in a $4,000 course?

Jessica Wynn: Honestly, probably nothing, but it makes you feel like you're doing everything possible to pass and that peace of mind is worth something, even if the content is redundant.

Jordan Harbinger: So it's like emotional support materials.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and look, I don't wanna dismiss that entirely. If having that extra test prep reduces your anxiety and helps you feel more confident, that has value, the placebo effect is real. Even if it's a $500 placebo. [01:07:00]

Jordan Harbinger: Is it the same in other countries? Do international students who wanna study in the United States, do they have the same hoops to jump through?

I imagine they would.

Jessica Wynn: Oh man. Yeah. International students applying to US colleges or grad programs, they have to take all the same tests. S-A-T-G-R-E, GMAT plus English proficiency tests like tofu or ielts. They're taking more standardized tests. The prep materials for TOEFL are their own industry. You've got books, courses, apps, all designed to help non-native speakers improve their English skills.

Specifically for this one test,

Jordan Harbinger: is the TOEFL hard? That seems like it would be all that stuff seems like it would be hard.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I mean, it really depends on your English proficiency, but it's testing academic English, reading scholarly articles, listening to lectures, writing essays, and that's very different from conversational English.

So you can be fluent in everyday English and still struggle with the toefl.

Jordan Harbinger: So international students are, they're [01:08:00] at a disadvantage from the start?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, in many ways they are. And they're often paying international student tuition, which is significantly higher. So they're paying more money to face more barriers.

And the test prep materials assume a certain cultural knowledge that international students just might not have, like referencing American history or literature that's not familiar to students from other countries. So that's a subtle disadvantage that native students don't even have to think about.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, so it's not just language, it's cultural context, which is probably the argument for why the test used to be easier for white people. It's not just about sailing, it's about who knows. Other things that I didn't even notice because I don't know, I'm white, I don't know. Or that argument was bs. I don't know.

I'm open to both interpretations.

Jessica Wynn: No, I, I think there's something to that. And for wealthy international students, this is where the tutoring industry really thrives. In countries like China, like you mentioned before, and South Korea, there's a massive test prep industry [01:09:00] specifically for US college admissions.

Some families are spending a hundred thousand dollars or more just on tutoring and test prep. They get admissions consultants just to get their kid into an American university.

Jordan Harbinger: That's insane. So we've exported our inequality problem. You're welcome.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. The American Standardized testing system has just it.

It's a global industry.

Jordan Harbinger: So is teaching to the test inherently bad? Because part of me thinks, okay, students need to pass this stupid test to move forward in life. Shouldn't we teach 'em how to pass it? I know I kind of asked you earlier, but I'm still hung up on this.

Jessica Wynn: Well, on one hand, these tests are gatekeepers, right?

If you don't pass, you don't get into college or grad school or whatever. So pragmatically, yeah, students need to learn how to take them. But teaching to the test, it means you're optimizing just for test performance, not for actual learning or understanding. You're teaching students tricks and strategies instead of critical thinking and deep knowledge.

Jordan Harbinger: Is that [01:10:00] so bad if it gets them where they need to go

Jessica Wynn: in the short term, no. But long term, those skills might not transfer. You've learned how to game the SAT, but you haven't learned how to write clearly or think analytically. That'll probably come to bite you. Those are the skills you actually need in college and life.

Jordan Harbinger: So we're trading real education for test scores

Jessica Wynn: in many cases. Yes. And students, they pick up on this, they learn that school isn't about curiosity or understanding, it's just about performing well on tests.

Jordan Harbinger: That is depressing.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it is. And it kills intrinsic motivation. So students who might have loved learning, they become focused on grades and scores instead.

Ideally, we'd have assessments that actually measure critical thinking, creativity, problem solving. Those are hard to standardize and expensive to grade. So we default to these multiple choice tests that are easy to score, but limited in what they can [01:11:00] measure.

Jordan Harbinger: Is there any oversight for these prep companies?

Can they just claim whatever they want?

Jessica Wynn: Pretty much. There's no governing body that vets claims. It's basically the nutritional supplement industry of education, lots of marketing, little oversight, and when challenged, they hide behind disclaimers in tiny print, results may vary. Individual success depends on effort and aptitude or whatever they write,

Jordan Harbinger: so they can be as dishonest as they want because there's just no consequences.

Jessica Wynn: There's some market consequences, but they only come in the form of bad reviews and word of mouth. But legally, they're mostly untouchable. There should be oversight at minimum, requiring evidence for claims, like average score increases by so many points, but it's tricky because you get into free speech issues.

Can the government tell a publisher what they can and can't claim about their book?

Jordan Harbinger: So this is how people get scammed.

Jessica Wynn: Oh yeah. Scammers will call parents saying, your child requested [01:12:00] SAT prep materials through the college board. We just need your credit card. They have names, addresses, school information, even the date and location of the scheduled test.

So it all seems completely legitimate.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. So these are scammers that are getting this information as much as a company selling materials,

Jessica Wynn: right? Correct. The scammers are getting them from data breaches or purchase lists or just looking at social media, at kids talking about when they're taking the test.

So there's a whole underground market for student information and once they have it, they use it to seem credible.

Jordan Harbinger: That is evil. So they're preying on parents who are, are already stressed about their kids' futures. Of course, these bastards

Jessica Wynn: and parents fall for it because the caller has really specific information.

One parent told the Better Business Bureau. The guy who called knew my daughter's name, her school, her test date, everything. It seemed completely real and he gave his credit card information. So you just have to really be [01:13:00] weary of unsolicited calls. The real college board will never ask for credit card information over the phone.

The Better Business Bureau has received hundreds of complaints about this, and the emotional toll is huge. There's embarrassment in falling for a scam and the violation of trust, and it seems that these scammers never get caught.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I know. So is AI gonna disrupt this entire industry as well? You know, speaking of chat GPT?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, but it could be used for good AI could provide personalized study plans, adaptive practice questions that adjust to your skill level, instant feedback on essay writing. And it could be way cheaper than these traditional prep courses. You could just hire a real human tutor,

Jordan Harbinger: but I'm guessing the big companies will just charge the same amount and pocket the difference.

Or they'll create a new tier premium AI tutoring. Five grand.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. My money's on that outcome, unfortunately. But there's also a movement [01:14:00] toward reducing the importance of standardized testing overall, more schools going test optional, more focus on holistic admissions that consider essays and extracurriculars and letters of recommendation.

Jordan Harbinger: Do you think that's the future?

Jessica Wynn: I hope so, because at the end of the day, these tests are imperfect measures of very specific skills. They don't capture creativity or perseverance, leadership, emotional intelligence, any of the things that actually matter for success. But they are convenient for institutions and they're very profitable for companies that make them.

So whether they're good for students is a much bigger question. COVID gave us a real world experiment. Colleges went test optional. Admissions still worked, and surprise the sky did not fall.

Jordan Harbinger: So maybe we don't need them at all.

Jessica Wynn: Maybe not. Or maybe we just need to rethink what we're testing and how. But as long as these tests exist, [01:15:00] the prep industry will exist too.

Because fear plus confusion equals marketplace.

Jordan Harbinger: That that should be on a T-shirt.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, right. In the meantime, if you are prepping, just be smart about it. Look for materials that break things down by skill, not just by test section. You wanna see things like reading comprehension, main idea, not just section one, right?

Do lots of practice questions that have clear explanations. Make sure the difficulty in format, actually feel like the real test, not, you know, confidence inflating stuff. Just read reviews from real people on Reddit and College Confidential. There's all kinds of test prep forums, not just the marketing copy to look at, so you just start with those official practice tests.

They're often sheep Khan Academy is a great place to begin. YouTube also has genuinely excellent free content from experienced educators, especially for the high [01:16:00] stakes exams, so you don't have to spend a fortune. And if you do spend money, one good book or course used properly is better than five mediocre ones you never open.

Jordan Harbinger: Test prep doesn't get you into college or grad school. You do, and these materials are just tools and not all necessary ones. So if anything promises to get you into med school, law school, and Hogwarts, check the fine print. If test prep really worked the way it's advertised, nobody would ever take the test twice.

Thanks, Jess, for helping us make the grade. And thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday. Direct to me: Jordan@jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her substack Between the Lines and Where Shadows Linger. We'll link to those in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Tadas Sidlauskas, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and [01:17:00] opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer and man, you don't wanna see my LSAT score. Also, we try to get these as right as we can. Not everything is gospel, even if it is fact checked. So consult a qualified professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and wellbeing.

Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

Urologist Dr. Justin Houman reveals why fertility, testosterone, and erections can be your earliest warning signs of heart and metabolic disease and why most men miss the signal.

JHS Trailer: Our testosterone levels start to decline starting at the age of 30. We say one to 2% every year. The reproductive health is a snapshot of overall health, so if you do have low sperm counts, it's kind of a wake up call.

Hey, fix your overall health picture. I try to keep it simple. What's good for your heart is good for your testicles, it's good for your sperm, so [01:18:00] lifestyle is one of them. Within that, I talk about diet, exercise, sleep and stress. Optimize your diet, minimize your processed foods, vegetables, lean proteins, exercise wise, combination of cardio.

Heavy weightlifting. That's good for your hormonal health. We know you need good testosterone levels within the testicle in order to have good sperm health, testosterone replacement therapy that shuts down your testosterone. There's genetic aspect to sperm health. There's not much you can do from a genetic standpoint, and then supplements is something a lot of guys talk about.

So there's certain supplements within the fertility category that can help. That's how you optimize. There's no question about it. We're unhealthier, right? We're less healthy now than we were 20 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago. We're eating more processed foods and we wake up and we're sitting at a desk all day coming back watching Netflix all day and rinse and repeat.

That's the whole thing. It's unhealthy living really. It's poor food, poor exercise, we're consumed by screens, and all of that just ultimately leads to unhealthy life. Men really aren't engaging in the healthcare system, but at the end of the day, it's not so objective [01:19:00] as your cardiovascular health. We've been reproducing for however long as humans.

All you really gotta do is what's good for your heart health. Your overall health is good for your reproductive health.

Jordan Harbinger: Whether you are in your twenties, your forties, or facing infertility, episode 1254 of The Jordan Harbinger Show could change how you think about men's health. If you like this show, there's another podcast you should check out.

If you wanna stay informed about what's happening around the world without drowning and noise, check out The President's Daily Brief. It's built for people who want the big stories fast and clear. Think 20 minutes in the morning, then a quick 10 minute update in the afternoon. Just focused coverage of the developments shaping the world right now from the Middle East and Venezuela to China, Russia, and beyond, with an emphasis on what actually has real world consequences for the United States.

The show's hosted by Mike Baker, a veteran of the CIA with decades of firsthand experience. So you're getting smart analysis from somebody who's been inside the system. You get straightforward context to help you understand what's happening and why it matters. Follow The President's Daily Brief wherever you get your podcasts and stay ahead of the [01:20:00] curve.