1168: Cursed Family DNA Keeps Fatherhood Dreams Away | Feedback Friday

1168: Cursed Family DNA Keeps Fatherhood Dreams Away | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the organic deodorant, just barely holding it together on this sweltering day of life

Gabriel Mizrahi: advice. Gabriel Mizrahi. I actually take offense to that one because you know I make my own deodorant, right?

No, I did

Jordan Harbinger: not know that. How did I not know that? You make it. I not told you this one. Why would you hold out on me? And two, why would you make your own deodorant? You know that they have deodorant for sale. No, not like this. Dude. I

Gabriel Mizrahi: thought you knew this. This deodorant is better than anything I've ever found in stores.

Okay. It's a family recipe though. It's been passed down through Jen. No, it's, it came through my sister, actually, and it's the greatest.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. I just didn't realize how apt that opening would be. No.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Not apt, because her deodorant is fire, but this is 100% something you can make fun of me for. Okay. I just want to defend the integrity of the rant

Jordan Harbinger: when I come to visit you in Portugal.

I'm gonna have to give you a good sniff because it's gonna be [00:01:00] hot over there. It's Europe. I dunno. So wait, what is it made of? Like how do you I'm not, I

Gabriel Mizrahi: can't talk about that.

Jordan Harbinger: It's like grandma's famous tomato sauce. Like the secret ingredient. Exactly. Are you not talking about it because it's legitimately embarrassing or are you not talking about it because you don't wanna share the recipe?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I don't wanna share the recipe. It's like, oh, it's a bit privileged information. 'cause it's a closely guarded rahi family secret.

Jordan Harbinger: I have questions because I always want like, okay, you put corn starch in there and there's a little bit of baby powder. Nope.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Neither of those two things. Okay. That's all I'll say.

Alright. But it is pretty great and I have tried to buy a bunch of organic, you know, like paraben free or whatever doesn't work. They don't work. The ones you buy in the store, but this one does. It's incredible. But you also, you use something similar, the rock salt deodorant, right?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I mean, it's alum salt.

It's probably like, it has potentially, people like to say it's bad for you, but there's just no science that says that it is.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Salt is a crucial ingredient, but that's all I'll say.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, this is just a rock of salt. I don't use this stuff that's like wax, that also smells like, I don't know, your grandma's couch or whatever the hell.

They tried to put the, [00:02:00] the smell and then he let it melt in the car. Anyway, on The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turned their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from economic, hitmen, gold smugglers, Russian spies, and people who make deodorant in their house, in their Los Angeles apartment. On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and continue to discover more and more layers to Gabe's hippie dippy persona, apparently.

Mm-hmm. Before we kick off, several weeks ago, we took a letter from a listener whose neighbor was the victim of a romance scam and maybe slash probably lost all of his money as a result. And a few of you wrote us saying, Hey, I saw this elsewhere. I think I saw it on Reddit. Are you guys just stealing letters from Reddit now?

The answer is no, definitely not. We never do that. That listener had posted his story both in our Jordan Harbinger subreddit, which I welcome you to join [00:03:00] if you're on Reddit and in these scams subreddit asking for advice, and we encouraged him to send it to our inbox as well. So that is why you might have seen it in multiple places.

Also, sometimes we get emails going like, oh, your scam letters are fake. I heard other stories about people being scammed in the same way with the, almost the exact same details, which actually kind of makes me chuckle because that actually proves how pervasive. How scripted these scams are. These scammers use templates and scripts and they usually copy paste all day long because many of them don't actually speak English really.

They just kind of run it through a translator. They use the script, they know what works. So of course you've heard of another person whose neighbor got scammed by somebody who claimed to be an architect stuck in a hospital in Indonesia or Asia somewhere or whatever. There are literally tens of thousands of people running the same scam on hundreds of thousands of people at any given time.

The scale of this is just bonkers. So I just wanted to clarify that mostly. 'cause it kind of bugs me when people think that we're embellishing or straight up making up some of the stories on feedback Friday. [00:04:00] It's not our thing. We actually don't need to do that. The the inbox is crazy. Gabe's too busy to do that, and we actually find a lot of just great stuff in there already.

Y'all managed to deliver week after week, which we deeply appreciate. So yeah, the do's on this show, 100% certified organic. Gabe, you can put that in your deodorant.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, no added ingredients. Just straight tea and salt, right In all senses of the term.

Jordan Harbinger: Unadulterated conundrum. That's what we're about. All right, Gabe, what's the first thing outta the mailbag?

Gabriel Mizrahi: So, as you guys might remember, a couple months ago, a listener wrote in about her very challenging son. He had exhibited difficult behavior since he was a young kid. He acted out, he would lie constantly. He was eventually diagnosed with ODD. Dad wasn't in the picture. She ended up marrying a nice guy who adopted her son, and then later in life, her son falsely accused her of multiple terrible crimes, including rape and child abuse, and even murdering her husband, who tragically took his own life after his [00:05:00] own struggles with mental illness.

Wild story.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that was a wild story. Really, really sad. That was episode 1144.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Long story short, this kicked off a seven month long criminal investigation that did a real number on her and on her daughter. It messed with their lives and nearly destroyed the life of the woman writing in.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. And her theory was that the son and his wife made all of it up to gain access to her late husband's estate.

So basically just for money.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. The charges were ultimately dropped, but the whole experience was very painful, largely because she ended up losing contact with her grandson as a result. And they were super close.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And her question was, do I take steps to make myself available to my grandson?

Now that he's almost an adult, do I try to find him right? Should I just leave him in the past?

Gabriel Mizrahi: But she was also worried about opening that door because you know, what is this kid gonna be like after being raised by these parents?

Jordan Harbinger: Also, I remember her saying that severe mental illness runs through her daughter-in-law's family.

Mm-hmm. And I think some of them have even been, was it institutionalized or something? They were all men, so it was like, that's right. The genes are there.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So [00:06:00] obviously a fraught situation. A lot of unknowns. So shortly after we aired that letter, we got this one. Hi Jordan and Gabe. Recently my mom sent in a story about my deranged brother, who is a chronic manipulator and possible psychopath and accused her of raping him.

She was also thinking of reaching out again to her grandson after all these years. She and I both listened to your show on and off, and this week I heard her story not even knowing it was ours. My brother and I are eight years apart. He moved out of the home when I was only 10. I always looked up to him.

I never thought of him as a manipulator or troublemaker until he started telling all these lies about me and my mom. He was so charming and popular. Everyone liked him. My middle school teachers used to ask about him even eight years after he left their classrooms. I was always jealous that he walked through the world so easily.

Jordan Harbinger: I think the main problem here is that they only listen to the show on and off and I can't let that go.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Let's dwell on that, shall we? Let's dwell on that. What is going on in your family that you guys are not listening to? Feedback Friday every week?

Jordan Harbinger: Clearly this is a dysfunctional group of [00:07:00] people we

Gabriel Mizrahi: need to call DCF like right now.

Alright,

Jordan Harbinger: so he is, this guy's super charming. Mm-hmm. He's fascinating. I mean, that kind of does fit with a lot of personality disorders, dangerous quality in the wrong person. The world would be a much easier place if sociopaths and dangerous people were just clueless with their people skills. We could spot them and avoid them.

Instead, they tend to be charismatic and cool and fun, and everyone loves being around them, and then they can sink their hooks in and do real damage.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But unlike my mom, I have more complicated feelings about my brother even after all these years. It's true that my brother and I were at each other's throats until he left the house, but we became a lot closer after he left the military.

I have a lot of good memories with him. Obviously I knew he was a pathological liar, but when I was younger it felt like kid stuff. After all, kids make up stories. I felt like eventually he would grow up like the rest of us. That's why it blindsided me when he suddenly turned on my mom and me and why it hurts even now.

I had never seen him lie like that. I thought he had learned to be a better person after he went to the military. I'm [00:08:00] still baffled by what happened to this day. To be clear, everything my mom said in her letter to you is true. I'm just coming to terms with the fact that I idolized my brother in a lot of ways.

I was too young to see the consequences of what he did when he was a kid, and we were never in the same school, so I never saw him at his worst. When he bullied me as a kid, it felt like he was only doing it because I was his annoying little sister. So I guess I always saw him differently than I would have if my parents had let me behind the curtain and told me what was going on.

I'm still trying to unravel that image of him, and unlike my mom, I'm not confident he made up these accusations for money. That's interesting. I wanna believe the answer is no. I guess I haven't really dealt with it completely. Sometimes I have a hard time separating my feelings about him from my mom's feelings because we've become so close.

We're now the closest family members. The other has most of the trauma that my mom talked about happened 12 or 13 years ago. I had to go through a lot of therapy to get through my brother's sudden turn and my dad's suicide, which happened within about a year of each [00:09:00] other. It's been over a decade and I'm still struggling with a deep well of rage, resentment, and grief toward both of them.

It feels like they both died. My brother is as much of a ghost to me as my dad, but he still leaves his mark.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I, that makes a lot of sense. The things you guys have been through, man, I'm so sorry.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm now 28 years old and I'm married to a wonderful woman. She wants to have kids. In the next three years we've been talking about having two kids, one biologically mine, one hers.

On some level I want kids, but on a deeper level, I'm scared. If I look at the objective evidence, my brother is basically a psychopath. My dad was deeply depressed, paranoid, and delusional, particularly in the last year of his life. I myself have struggled with depression and need antidepressants. I'm worried that any biological kid of mine could be like me, like my dad, or the absolute worst case scenario like my brother.

Maybe my kid will suddenly turn on a dime just like him. Essentially, you said on your podcast that people often turn [00:10:00] out like their family, and that's why my nephew should be left alone in a way. I agree. Is it reasonable to be afraid that any kid with my jeans will turn out like my family? Should I let my own genes die on the vine, or should I face my fears and trust and nurture over nature, signed tempt fate and procreate, or cut bait and dodge these traits?

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. What a fascinating letter. This is so much to talk about here. Okay? We're not doctors or geneticists or anything like that, so you're gonna have to take this as a personal perspective and not as a, any sort of medical advice. We're not able to counsel you on this, but man, Jen and I. We asked ourselves the exact same questions before we had kids.

'cause as you Oh yeah, yeah. Interesting. As, as many people probably know, there are some complicated people in my family. Mm-hmm. And there's a genetic component to some of that stuff. So we worried too, you know, we did some homework on the specific disorders that we were looking at, you know, like schizophrenia and things like that, and whatever else was going on in the family.

[00:11:00] We did some homework. We felt pretty comfortable with the stats on the disorders that we were worried about. But yeah, I really get it. I appreciate your thoughtfulness here. So thank you for listening, even though it's on and off. Thank you for sharing all this with us. Your mom's story is really one for the books, and yours is equally fascinating just hearing about all this from another person's perspective.

It's pretty rare even on feedback Friday. And I am very, very sorry that you and your mom went through all of this. What your brother put you through your dad's suicide. The whole thing is just very tragic. Now when you say that you feel a deep well of rage, resentment, and grief toward both of them, I was thinking, of course you do.

How could you not?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, seriously,

Jordan Harbinger: your dad and your brother in very different ways. They've left you guys with some very difficult feelings, and your brother is probably an ongoing wound, I'm sure. But I gotta say, as painful as it must be to hold these feelings, it sounds like you're really in touch with them.

You have a good grasp on them. Maybe because you did all that in therapy, I commend you for that, by the way. In some ways it's harder to be in touch with all that stuff, but it's better than [00:12:00] repressing those feelings and then letting them run your life by poking out in other ways. So you're asking a complex question here, should I have children when there might be some dark stuff in my jeans, stuff that I can't control?

I'm glad you wrote in about this because your mom's letter sparked a lively debate in our subreddit, which by the way, if anybody wants to chime in on episodes, I said it earlier, it's the Jordan Harbinger subreddits. A couple people took issue with some of what I said about how I have a challenging cousin.

My mom said, Hey, don't write her back. 'cause she wrote me on Facebook and my mom didn't want me to have contact with her because of her parents and her upbringing. I also said that your mom should be careful because who knows what her grandson inherited from his parents. The premise being he could be a bad seed, he doesn't deserve a chance because so much of this stuff is predetermined and fixed.

We didn't really get to explore that idea in much depth because of time. But also, again, I'm not a psychiatrist, uh, or a geneticist or a psychopathy expert by any means. So what do I know? But I'm glad to have a chance to clarify here. Is it reasonable to be afraid that a child with your genes will turn out like your family?

Yes, in a [00:13:00] way, I think it is reasonable. I think everyone should be curious about how their children are gonna turn out, what they might inherit from their family. Whether it's a gene for a particular disease or a mental health thing, or whatever it is. Most people don't, but they should at least consider it.

And somebody with your particular family history has some very good reasons to go. Hmm. Okay. How's this gonna play out? Now, does that mean that any child you have is guaranteed to turn out like your brother or father? Of course not. So the question is how afraid should you really be and how do you think about the game of chance that is having children, which is an objectively insane game to play.

It's a crapshoot in so many ways, but we all play it when we decide to procreate. Now, I wish I could tell you how likely it is that a child you have will turn out like your brother or your dad, but nobody can do that. At least not yet. Also, what happened to your brother, your dad, that might have been determined to some degree by genes we don't know.

I think it's also very likely that it was informed by other factors, environment, family systems, personality, formative experiences, various [00:14:00] influences, the level of support they had. It is impossible to know how much of this is truly hereditary. So as you can see, I'm about to give you a non-answer here because the nature versus nurture debate is so complicated, is so mysterious, and all parents have to face these fears to some degree or more often.

Just ignore them. What you do control, of course, is what kind of parent you are, how you love and nurture your child, how you attend to their needs, how you invest in them and support them, how you meet their particular challenges. And there will be challenges even if your child doesn't turn out like your brother or father.

And my feeling, and again, this is just a layman's opinion, if you talk to a psychiatrist or a geneticist or somebody like that, they might have a different view, but my feeling is that stuff generally matters more than what a child inherits because that stuff shapes what a child inherits. It determines how that inheritance plays out essentially.

Even if a child ends up experiencing, let's say, bipolar disorder, if they have a parent who meets their mood stuff with interest, with compassion, who [00:15:00] helps them understand their cycles, who takes them to therapy to a psychiatrist, if they're surrounded by friends, they have responsibilities that keep them grounded.

That diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean that they're gonna experience wild delusions or suicidal ideation. Whereas somebody without those pieces in place could easily have a very different experience of themselves and of life in general. And I mean, there have been guests on the show who are self-described narcissists, sociopaths.

I even interviewed one legit psychopath. They were all quite productive and high functioning and had families that were intact. So clearly nature matters quite a bit here.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I totally agree, and this is what makes her question so intense. I'm thinking about her mom's story and it sounds like her mom met her son with a lot of these qualities that you just mentioned, Jordan, all of these supports, and look how he still turned out.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's true.

Gabriel Mizrahi: By three years old, I think it was, he was displaying behavior problems and then soon after that, diagnosed with A-D-H-D-O-D-D. I mean, it's hard not to draw the conclusion sometimes that people can inherit some things that they can't overcome, even [00:16:00] though I totally agree that nurture probably matters way more.

Jordan Harbinger: No, I know. I'm not discounting that, but I'm also remembering that a huge piece of the son's backstory is that he didn't have his biological father around, and then later in life his bio dad helped him turn against the mom by telling her a bunch of. Nonsense. Right. So I also wonder how those facts played a role in his development.

Maybe he still would've struggled the same with a different upbringing, but he might have also struggled less or struggled differently.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, that was one of his accusations against his mom, that she kidnapped him from his father. Right. So you're right. That does suggest that that was a core wound for him, whether it's true or not.

And that's nurture, not nature, if that was even a legitimate wound though. Right, right, right. Remember, he might have just said that to mess with his mother for the money, potentially.

Jordan Harbinger: Of course. We don't know how he truly feels, and he's probably well, clearly mentally ill. Mm-hmm. But my point is, I think it's safe to say that not having a father in his life played some role in his development, probably a big one, and going to the military probably did too.

So can we really chalk all this up to genes? I'm [00:17:00] not sure. It's that interplay that makes the person, so we can't tell you whether you should let your own genes die on the vine. That is such a personal decision, and it's impossible to precisely calculate the risk that you're taking on here. What I can tell you is this.

If you decide not to have kids, I completely understand, and on some level, I might even respect that choice. Not saying that's what you should do whatsoever. Not saying you shouldn't have children. I just appreciate how thoughtful you're being about this. And if you were like, no, not worth the risk for me, I totally get it.

But if you do decide to have a biological child, I'm sure you'd be an excellent mother. You'd give them everything you can to help them thrive. And in that way, your family history can serve a different purpose. Not scaring you away from parenthood, but informing what kind of parent you'll be. Also, your wife can carry a child for you guys.

So it's not like you can't be a parent if you decide not to have a biological child of your own. Obviously, I don't know how important it is to you to have a child with your genes, but I'm confident that you would love a child. You guys have just as much, and yeah, you would sidestep this huge fear of yours if you decide that [00:18:00] it's too risky.

It's funny in a certain way, you're in a great position having a same sex partner. 'cause being a mother well doesn't fall entirely on you. So that's my take. Gabe, what say you,

Gabriel Mizrahi: oh, it's a tough one, man. I mean, I fully agree with everything you just said. There's just no way to know what a child will inherit or how that's gonna play out.

The unsettling fact is that she is rolling the dice, all parents roll the dice, as you pointed out, but the stakes are higher in certain families. A helpful question might be if you did have a biological child. It did turn out that they struggled with some of what your brother did, or they turned out like your father in some ways.

Would you regret having them or would you be able to make peace with it and know that it was worth the risk in order to have a biological child of your own? Again, that's a question only you can answer. It's a hard question to answer in the abstract. I know, and obviously it's very personal, but I think that is the question.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, but that's exactly what it comes down to. Ultimately.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Here's another thing. We've been talking about this mostly from her point of view. How would she respond to a potential child with these challenges? It's also important to look at this through another lens. How [00:19:00] would this potential child respond to these challenges if they ended up facing them?

Is it fair to bring a child into this world who might suffer from, say, psychopathy or extreme depression or psychosis? Good point. Again, I can't answer that for you, but something to consider because what you and your mom's stories really lay bare is yes, your brother and your father caused a lot of chaos and a lot of hurt in your lives, but to cause that much chaos and hurt.

You have to be in a lot of pain yourself. Right. Obviously it was awful to hear what your mom went through with your brother, but while we were hearing about it, I was also going, man, imagine being that guy, you know, someone who feels the need to falsely accuse his mother of all of this heinous stuff, who carries around all this anger and confusion who might have done all of this potentially for money.

I know there's some disagreement about that, but you know, how tragic is that? Yeah. To be the person who has to deal with all that.

Jordan Harbinger: Totally. So maybe she needs to move between those two perspectives. Hers. Her potential future child, although it's the same problem again, she doesn't know how that child will turn out or how they'd feel about it.

So she's still operating [00:20:00] on limited information

Gabriel Mizrahi: and probability. Right. Which is really all you have. I just wanna touch on one other really interesting thing in her letter, which is the difference between her experience of her brother and her mom's experience.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I'm glad you came back to that. She said she has more complicated feelings for her brother than her mom.

It's interesting,

Gabriel Mizrahi: someone in the subreddit recently asked why we always seem to take the side of the person writing in or assume that their version of events is the truth. Uhhuh, the answer is, well, first of all, we do not always do that.

Jordan Harbinger: No. If we disagree with them or if we have some questions, we usually say that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And in my view, that's what truly being on someone's side is about, you know, like gently challenging when appropriate.

Jordan Harbinger: But we also, you've said this before, Gabe, we only have the letter writer's facts to go on. That's the reality.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And everyone's the main character in their own story, right? Sure. So I think we often default to being on the letter writer's side because their experience is the main one that matters in that moment.

But. One of my favorite things is when we get to hear from the other party in a story, which doesn't happen all that often on the show, or when Jordan and I remember to stop and go, okay, like we're hearing these facts, but I wonder what someone else in this situation would say happened.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:00] Yeah, same here.

'cause you realize that there are multiple truths about any given situation and the truth. Truth is almost was for the old saying. It's somewhere in the middle. Somewhere in between. Yeah,

Gabriel Mizrahi: somewhere in between, right? Yeah. What's interesting to me about this letter is that our friend here hasn't quite arrived at the position her mom has.

She had a different relationship with her brother. She had a different experience of him. She didn't have to raise him. She wasn't his mom. She also doesn't fully believe that he made those accusations to get his mom's money,

Jordan Harbinger: but she also said that she quote wants to believe the answer is no. So maybe it's just too painful to admit that he did all this for money, and the answer is really that simple.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It's also possible that she has some fair questions about whether that theory is correct. I mean, he might have accused his mom of all that stuff because he's confused and angry and unstable, and he really believes it strangely enough.

Jordan Harbinger: But our friend here also said that she might not have really dealt with this completely, so it's hard to say.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, she's still very much in a process around her brother, but whatever her brother's reasons were. What's important about this is she and her mom have different feelings about her brother and [00:22:00] possibly different conclusions about him, which is fair. She has a hard time separating her feelings about him from her mom's feelings because they're so close.

I just think there's a lot for both of them to appreciate about that aspect of their relationship. What I'm hearing is that it can be really hard for our friend here to acknowledge her full feelings about her brother with her mom. Like if she were to say, mom, I totally share your view about brother and this, this and this way.

I am so angry. I'm so hurt just like you are. I also feel a little differently about him in this and that other way, and honestly, I don't know if I'm convinced that he did all of this for money. I'm still working that one out. Maybe he had other reasons for accusing you of all these terrible things, whatever the conversation would sound like.

I wonder how mom would hear that. I wonder what that would mean for their relationship. It sounds to me like because they're so close, there's kind of an implicit assumption that they have to be totally in sync about their feelings. Any difference between them would compromise that closeness, and it might even feel like a kind of betrayal,

Jordan Harbinger: right?

Because what they've been through together is so extreme, and the facts are so [00:23:00] stark. The villain is so clear that for her to have a different lens or come to a different conclusion, even a little Herman might hear that and go like, wait a minute, you're not totally on my side. Are you on his side? You know, what's the deal here?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. Because then what?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You know? Then maybe the fear is that they're not true partners in all this. Sure. Or they don't have the special connection that they think they have. They might be losing something precious. The thing that got them through these two huge tragedies was their relationship.

Right. But making room for each other's experiences of the same event. And acknowledging that they might sometimes disagree about certain points that is totally compatible with being very close. That is true closeness. So it doesn't have to be the disruption or the betrayal that it might feel like.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. They can have slightly different feelings about dad and brother and still love each other. Still be tight.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Ultimately, this is, we're coming back to that theme we come back to, which is like tolerating the tension of holding multiple perspectives.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And being willing to engage in some healthy conflict when there's modest disagreement.

Jordan Harbinger: For sure. Look, it would be one thing if mom were saying, your brother's a maniac. He's out of his mind. He's trying to [00:24:00] steal our money. And the daughter was saying, you're wrong. He's, he's a great guy. Mm-hmm. That would really put them on different pages. That's a conflict that would take a lot of work to repair.

This is just about making a little more room for some nuance and difference between them and making it safe for them to share all of their feelings and conclusions, not just the ones that they've actually sort of together, Taly agreed. Are right and appropriate.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, exactly. It's a little scary to acknowledge that in close relationships, especially very old relationships, because you know so much gets cemented, right?

Especially with a parent. But if both parties are open and respectful and able to tolerate that tension, and I get the sense that these two are given how they've moved through these huge events in their lives, it is absolutely possible, and I think it would only strengthen their special relationship.

Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. So, all right. Wow, we went deep into this one, but yeah, so much to talk about. Again, I'm so very sorry for the things you and your mom have been through. It is deeply tragic. It's so unfair, but it's also put you guys in touch with a strength and clarity and set of skills that I think are extremely powerful.[00:25:00]

You're applying all of those to your decision now to have kids to your relationship with your mom, your stance with your brother, how you grieve, how you make sense of your dad. All of that is really commendable. So keep asking these questions. Keep talking about the kids' thing with your partner. Maybe bring all of it into therapy.

I know you're surprised that I would recommend therapy on this show. Well, I know, but I know you'll arrive at the right decision. Sending you and your mom a huge hug. And wishing you guys all the best and now we are passing down some psychotically good deals on the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back.

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Now back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 28-year-old woman, born and raised in Canada to Vietnamese immigrant parents, and I was recently accepted to the University of Texas at Austin to complete a master's in marketing.

Jordan Harbinger: Hey, congrats. Nicely done.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So awesome. I don't live in the same city as my parents and haven't for a while, so I'm not very close with them.

I also don't have a lot of friends in my city since they all moved all over after graduating university. And I can't picture myself settling down in Canada right now. The housing prices are nearly impossible. The weather has always been miserable, and I want to give myself the chance to explore living in other places and earn a salary in US dollars.

My 3-year-old boyfriend who I've been dating for three years has not spent a lot of time living away from his family. They live a 20 minute drive from us. We rent our apartment from his parents, and we see them regularly. He's excited about exploring somewhere new, but he isn't a hundred percent sure he can [00:29:00] see himself living so far from his family.

When we told his parents about the move, their response was lackluster at best. The current news cycle in Canada is very anti-US and anti-Trump, and his dad is deep in that rabbit hole. I tried to explain to them that I really care about them, that I view choosing your partner as a chance to choose your family, and I'm so glad that I chose them and that I just don't see a future for myself here in Canada.

They expressed concerns about this changing the dynamic of the family, that it wasn't the future that they saw for their son, that they thought it was a bad idea.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. That's a loaded statement. Put a pin circle, highlight that shit in red. That's not the future they saw for their son. Okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

We'll come back to that. Mm-hmm. They also propose that quote, maybe we can meet in Mexico because we're not stepping foot on American soil.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Wow. Okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: All the while they didn't look at me once it was incredibly [00:30:00] uncomfortable and upsetting.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's tough. Okay. They're clearly having a hard time with this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I've asked my boyfriend to speak with them after the dust settled because I felt like I was being painted as the bad guy coercing my boyfriend to do something he doesn't fully wanna do. He did, but they said that they didn't feel it was necessary for them to apologize to me or explain anything to me.

Then we spent Easter with his family and the whole evening, it felt like his side of the aisle was trying to avoid talking to me.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. These parents are getting harder and harder to sympathize with.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I really do want to get along with them, and I don't want our last few months in Canada to be riddled with tension and resentment.

I empathize with his parents for being worried about their son, but this sort of feels like a nightmare to me. I feel like I've been catering to a lot of other people's feelings throughout this process, and I haven't been able to attend to my own. How do I move forward with an amicable relationship with my boyfriend's family?

How can I make sure I'm honoring my own goals and feelings while not placing my boyfriend in the middle of this conflict? And what are some ways to maintain [00:31:00] my excitement about the move amidst this personal fallout and the current US administration stance on foreigners and Canadians? Signed feeling irate and carrying the freight for this family that hates that I'm taking their son from your 51st state.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Yeah. You're trying to alienate all the Canadian listeners here, Gabe. I see. Oh,

Gabriel Mizrahi: sorry. Is that what? Is that like controversial or something? Yeah. No, you're

Jordan Harbinger: right. I'm sure most Canadians love that joke. Just a little. It's a little annexation. Humor. NBD, to be

Gabriel Mizrahi: clear, that was a sign off written from the perspective of her in-laws Worst Fears not.

I see, you know, a subtle endorsement of Trump's foreign policy in case anyone listening right now is like connecting red string on a bulletin board of all our feedback Friday episodes, trying to figure out old Gabe's politics.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. John Nash style. Glad you clarified. Seeing as we never really talk about politics on the show, but yeah, before we continue, can you take off the MAGA hat?

The red is really, it's reflecting the light back into the lens of the camera.

Gabriel Mizrahi: My bad. Let me just put on my, uh, my Justin Trudeau shirtless on a moose sweater. I think I have that somewhere.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that looks nice. It's a nice fit. [00:32:00] Everyone north of the 49th Parallel can relax now. So congrats on getting into grad school.

Congrats on jumping feet first into this big move. It is super exciting. You have some very legit reasons for wanting to explore life in the us, personal, social, financial. I'm sure this chapter is gonna be very fruitful in so many ways. And I gotta say, I love that you're chasing this adventure. It takes a lot of courage.

Now, this is obviously more complicated news for your boyfriend's parents to hear. I get why all of this is making you feel sad, upset, uncomfortable. You're clearly a very caring person, maybe a little too caring. You are Canadian after all, and it sucks to know that you're hurting people you love just by wanting to live your best life.

I don't find that fair. But yeah, they're entitled to their feelings too, I suppose. I just wish they were communicating them better to you and not making things extra hard by icing you out. But let's talk about your boyfriend and his parents here for a minute. They obviously have a very close relationship.

I. Is it a little too close? Maybe hard to say, but look, he's 32 fully an adult. He [00:33:00] hasn't spent much time living away from his family. You guys live 20 minutes from them. You rent your apartment from them. You see them all the time. That is a lot of contact. He's excited about living somewhere else and that's a crucial fact because if that's true, then it doesn't sound like you're coercing him into moving.

But he does have some anxiety about living so far away from his family, which look, I can appreciate it. It's a big deal for him.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But does that also mean that this would be a good move for him too? Is there some healthy separation that needs to happen here? I think maybe,

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, I'm getting that sense.

Yeah, too. If there is a part of your boyfriend that needs to be pushed a little bit into the deep end and a doing the move, not forced, encouraged, I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. All of this does paint a picture of a family that's working hard to keep their baby boy close and that can only view this chapter through the lens of their own loss and also through the lens of the news they follow on TV in Canada.

And me personally, I think that's a shame 'cause it's his life and it's compatible with empathizing with them, which you're doing really [00:34:00] well by the way. I can only imagine how hard it is for parents to watch their kids move to another country. It's not like they aren't allowed to be sad or scared. Every time I moved to a new country and I didn't, I did not choose super chill countries, man.

I moved to Germany, okay, fine. But then I moved to Mexico, Israel, Ukraine, Panama, Serbia. My parents were like, what is, can you go to like Australia, man, if his parents can only make room for their own sadness, their own fear, if they're gonna make you the bad guy for taking their baby boy away, especially after you said all these heartfelt things about choosing them.

Yeah, I do find that to be unfair, and to me that's a sign that this trip might actually be healthy for both of you. At a minimum. I have a feeling your boyfriend would learn a lot about himself and his childhood and his relationship with his parents by getting just a little bit of distance. It sounds like he's entrenched in a very old dynamic with his family, and I'm frankly excited for him to find out what it's like to step out of that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I totally agree. It's gonna be jarring for him in some ways. Mm-hmm. I think it's also gonna be very [00:35:00] eye-opening and hopefully liberating, so, okay, that's your boyfriend. Let's come back to you. My feeling is you probably have to prepare for a timeline where your boyfriend's parents are never fully on board with this move.

And to Jordan's point, that is their right. Kind of sounds to me like they've made up their minds. But TBD on that, I suppose. How they feel about your plans obviously affects you, but it does not need to entirely dictate how you feel about your plans. You know, it can't stop you from pursuing your education, your career, the life you really want.

So in a world where you can't get them to come around, it does become your job to build up your capacity to bear their grief. And just like we were talking about in question one with the mother and daughter, to learn to tolerate the conflict of competing feelings in a very close family.

Jordan Harbinger: Literally the hardest thing for a Canadian to do.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The hardest. Yeah, yeah, totally. Her American education is beginning now, I

Jordan Harbinger: think. Yeah. They don't teach that at the University of Texas. That's a feedback Friday curriculum only. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Intro to Tolerating Tension 1 0 1.

Jordan Harbinger: Yep. Keep this up. You're gonna be a PhD in [00:36:00] ology in no time.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. A

Jordan Harbinger: pH dues. That's right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And yeah, continue to be kind to them. If you think that there's another conversation to be had, you could try again. You know, you're sad that this transition is so hard for them, but that it's also really exciting and very important for you.

Jordan Harbinger: I would also tell them that you guys are gonna find lots of ways to stay close.

'cause that's, look, this is their big fear. Mm-hmm. That they're not gonna be close with their son anymore at all forever. Now about not placing him in the middle of the conflict. I'm just not sure that that's possible. I'm also not sure that that's on you. You guys are a unit in this decision. He's choosing to move with you.

So he's gonna catch heat from his parents. Now, whether he sort of like blames it all on you to deflect, that might be another issue. 'cause that could be happening. I'm speculating here, but that could be happening and that's not gonna make things better. But once again, while it's sweet that you wanna protect him, I also think it's important to allow him to learn how to bear those difficult feelings we were just talking about as well, and learn how to assert his own interests when his parents disagree.

That's just gonna be a big part of his individuation here

Gabriel Mizrahi: in a way. Isn't that another [00:37:00] version of her being so concerned about everyone else's feelings that she's also trying to make sure her boyfriend doesn't have to deal with any difficult feelings? Yes. Like let's just let everybody have the experience they're having and see what happens.

But look, this thing about honoring your own goals and attending to your own feelings through all this, I think that is the most important part of your letter. This extreme closeness with your boyfriend's parents and perhaps your own family history may be also certain Canadian values. All of that is making you very concerned about everyone else's feelings here and making it hard for you to prioritize your own.

Now that impulse takes a while to rewrite. It probably goes back a very long way. Here's your opportunity to give it a go. See what happens when you tell yourself, yeah, I mean, it sucks. I'm sorry. These people are hurting. I feel for them. I really do, and I'm allowed to build my own life and I'm psyched to move to the US and I want to deepen my education, and I want to expand my world and my career, and I'm not gonna not live the life I want because I want protect everyone else.

Jordan Harbinger: She has to make room for both. And in her case, given this tendency, I would actually tilt slightly more to being quote unquote [00:38:00] selfish, to balance out her hyperactive empathy. What

Gabriel Mizrahi: might feel selfish to her would probably just be like appropriate self-interest.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. It's hard to advocate for yourself when you're overly involved in other people's feelings.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's fair. It's primarily their business to work through their grief. It's primarily your business to nurture your excitement.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. And that's compatible with caring about them, but also working through this grief that is their side of the process. I. That's not bad either. So as far as the current administration's stance on Canadians, foreigners in general, it's tough, it's frustrating.

I know it's impacting a lot of people right now. That might affect you. It might not, but it's not something I would fixate on. There's nothing you can do about it. Okay? And the news is, of course, magnifying certain viewpoints that you almost certainly won't encounter when you get here. No rational person here on the ground has done a total 180 on Canadians, just 'cause Trump took office.

And I doubt you're gonna encounter many people in Austin of all places who are gonna, you know, like chant 51st state in your face while you walk through the halls of ut. Your [00:39:00] friends might do that to troll you, but no one's going to seriously do that too. The politics of Austin are weird. They literally have bumper stickers that say, keep Austin weird.

There's a whole blue red mashup thing going on there. I'm not too worried about this, Gabe. I'm actually super excited for her and for her boyfriend. I know that the transition is bringing up a lot for them, but that is really part of what these big transitions do. Mm-hmm. In addition to building a life she wants, I think this healthy separation really does need to take place.

It's always painful.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: But it is so important.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It reminds me of the listener from a few weeks ago who was struggling with all that grief about her kids moving outta state, remember?

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. Interesting. Parallel there again, I get it. I'm probably gonna B, my eyes out the day Jayden and Juniper go off to college or start traveling or whatever they do.

How can you not? But like we talked about on that episode, it's a parent's job to bear that grief, right?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. To allow their children to flourish, even if it hurts. Absolutely.

Jordan Harbinger: Not to do everything in their power to keep them close and living, you know, upstairs or whatever. I know that that might be a bias of mine and the west.

Were pretty individualistic. I also tend to think this [00:40:00] individuation is a universal rite of passage. 'cause the opposite. Well, it's enmeshment, right? And caretaking and just kind of a smaller life in general.

Gabriel Mizrahi: There's this psychoanalyst, her name is Erna Furman, and she has this quote I really love, actually, she was quoting Anna Freud.

She said a mother's job is to be there, to be left.

Jordan Harbinger: I gotta think about that for a second. A mother's job is to be there. Uh, it's to be left. Okay. All right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. So the child can go away and come back over and over again.

Jordan Harbinger: Damn. Yeah. I mean, so much of parenting is that It is very bittersweet.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting for a child to master the developmental stage of leaving, which, you know, usually begins when they start going to nursery school.

But it happens over and over again, over the course of their life, even into adulthood, mothers and fathers too. But the mother has a unique role to play in all of this. They have to still be able to miss the child and to actually feel unneeded by the child and still be available when the child comes back.

If the mother clings or if she responds in a way that makes the child feel guilty [00:41:00] or conflicted about leaving, then the child will usually struggle in some way in life. It'll be hard for the child to develop true empathy for the mother, and they'll struggle to do what we're talking about, which is to grow away from the parent as they're supposed to do.

So, yeah, parents have to continually bear this very real grief, which is intense. Ideally not do what that listener from a few weeks ago was doing what this boyfriend's parents seemed to be doing, which is kind of hold it against their children and create guilt, create conflict, create a sense of obligation so that they can continue enjoying the benefits of playing a certain role in their children's lives.

Which is also a way of saying so that they don't have to feel that appropriate pain themselves.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Yeah. That's why I reacted so strongly to that line in her letter when his parents said, you can't leave. This will change the dynamic of the family. This wasn't the future we saw for our son. This is a bad idea because yeah.

What they're really saying is, how dare you leave me? You have to live the life that we planned for you because we sacrificed all this stuff for you. Mm-hmm. You have to live your life [00:42:00] for us so that we can feel, I don't know, whatever it is, loved, needed, secure. I just find that super limiting and unhealthy, but I also understand how hard that is being a parent, not for the faint of heart.

I mean, would it be great if Juniper and Jaden grew up and bought houses on this street and lived here? Yeah. Am I going to actually suggest that they do that and not take no for an answer? No. That's insane. That's actually crazy. I mean,

Gabriel Mizrahi: that's how it should be and that's wonderful. But I don't know how you parents do it, man.

It's just so much healthy, wonderful, appropriate but horrible grief. Yeah. At the same time, I just know that you have to do it. Otherwise you get a very difficult dynamic.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, I don't have a choice now, but the kids are born already to be there. To be left. Yep. That's a good one. Anyways, hey, congrats on getting into ut.

You should be super proud. I hope you have an incredible time in Texas. I'm sorry it's coming with some bumps, but given everything we're talking about, I don't know if those bumps are all bad, honestly, I think they're intense, but you gotta keep your eyes on the prize. Be loving as you go, and you're gonna do great.

Good luck. You can reach us [00:43:00] friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use a descriptive subject line that does make our job a whole lot easier. If you're sweating under the Doge sort of dam as your partner's having an affair with their BFF, or your ex-husband and his new wife are weaponizing the legal system against you and driving you away from your kids, whatever's got you staying up at night lately.

Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We are here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out the newsletter. Wee bit wiser. It's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you deliver to your inbox most Wednesdays. If you wanna keep up with the wisdom from a thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out.

You can sign up at Jordan harbinger.com/news. Alright, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. A few weeks ago, I received a suspicious email from a company called Credit Control LLC, suggesting that I had an outstanding debt with Verizon that they were wanting to settle up. I assumed it was a phishing scam and almost deleted it, but first forwarded it to a couple people who said it appeared legit.

I looked into it some more, [00:44:00] and credit control is a debt collection company. The email was addressed to someone with my same first and last name, but a mailing address in Arizona where I've never lived. I Googled the person's name and address. She has a different middle name from mine. We're different ages and we have entirely different phone numbers.

It's clear we're different people. I also haven't had a Verizon account in over a decade. Rather than clicking through any links in the email, I went directly to the credit control website and called their phone number. No one picked up and a recorded message said to leave my phone. I would get a call back to resolve things.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I did so several times. No one ever picks up and I have not gotten a call back. Of course, I also Googled the company and it seems this is a very common occurrence. They email you about the debt of someone who is not you. They're impossible to reach. They continue to spam you with threatening emails, and then it hits your credit score.

Their Better Business Bureau account has over 300 complaints in the last three years. This week I sent them an email telling them the problem and asking them to correct this error immediately, [00:45:00] and that if I keep receiving these erroneous emails, I will take legal action. I have one more month before they said it will escalate.

What are some dark Jordan tips for how to get ahead of this and protect myself so I don't have to deal with it after the fact? Signed. You got the wrong guy. See, but I still have to bend the knee spitefully. 'cause my credit score might be declining.

Jordan Harbinger: What? What? What was that? Declining

Gabriel Mizrahi: Your face, dude is so disappointed.

So we're just

Jordan Harbinger: making up new emphasis now. Just put the emphasis on whatever sable you want, dude. No big deal, dude. You try

Gabriel Mizrahi: doing these every week and let's see if you can keep it fresh, huh?

Jordan Harbinger: No thanks.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. That's what I thought. See how hard it is to innovate in this department.

Jordan Harbinger: Anyways, I'm angry over here.

This is so shady. Not your sign off. I have to sign off or, okay. So yes, credit control is a legitimate in air quotes, right, because they're a debt collection company based in Missouri. But you're right, they've received a ton of complaints from people who are going through the exact same thing that you are.

So this is not an out and out blatant scam. I'm trying [00:46:00] to figure out why this is happening. Either they're dabbling in scammy territory or they have an automated system that I'm guessing just inherits debt from big companies tries to triangulate information about people who owe money. By scraping the web, they often locate the wrong people, which really sucks 'cause these people have the potential to ding your credit score if you don't resolve this.

And there's no human involved in the process, most likely. So unfortunately, you have to approach any debt collection stuff with caution. There are a few things that you can do to protect yourself here. I cannot, unfortunately, in good conscience, and according to good ethics, pitch you dark Jordan ideas when your FCO score is on the line.

It's different if there's a sushi dumpster near your bakery, but this is gonna be something that's gonna affect you long term and have serious implications for your ability to buy a house in a car and stuff like that. So first, within 30 days of receiving a notice, confirm the legitimacy of the debt by sending what's called a debt validation letter.

I. There's a law called the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the F-D-C-P-A. And under that law you have the right to dispute a debt and request verification. [00:47:00] Send that request certified mail with a return receipt. This should force them to prove that you do, in fact, owe the debt that they are authorized to collect it and that the amount is correct.

Even if credit control doesn't respond, this letter's still gonna help 'cause it should trigger legal protections for you and it'll create a paper trail that can work in your favor. Also, our understanding is that if they ignore your debt validation letter, they cannot legally continue to collect until they validate the debt.

The F-D-C-P-A says that once you request validation in writing, within 30 days, the agency must stop all collection activity, including phone calls, letters, credit, reporting, until they provide proof. Failure to respond puts them in violation of federal law. And if they don't respond, send a follow up letter referencing their lack of response demand that they cease collection, and remove the item from your credit report.

That'll strengthen your position. Honestly, I would just ask chat GPT for templates for a debt validation letter or dispute to credit bureaus. That's gonna save you potentially hours, help you tap into some best practices. After that, track [00:48:00] all your communication with credit control in writing. Try not to communicate over the phone if you suspect an

Gabriel Mizrahi: issue.

Not even an option with these people. 'cause they won't even pick up the phone, but

Jordan Harbinger: yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, try not to talk to these people on the phone who don't actually have, don't wanna talk to do at all. Yep. Yeah. Save copies of all your correspondence, your mail receipts, emails, scan 'em in, throw 'em in Dropbox, whatever.

Google Drive. If you're forced to speak to someone on the phone, although it sounds like they don't wanna do that, take notes on the time, the date, everything you discuss on the call. And if you're in a two party state, you can Google this. If you're like in Las Vegas or something like that, you can record the call.

And if this ends up on your credit report, dispute the inaccuracy immediately with the credit bureau. That's Experian, Equifax, whatever it is. And dispute it with credit control. Send them all the proof, your documentation, payment records, fraud reports. These disputes should also be sent via certified mail if possible.

If credit control doesn't respond to the credit bureau dispute, the credit bureau may remove the item after 30 days. Apparently, this is especially effective when you [00:49:00] also send supporting documents that show, look, I don't owe this debt. It was somebody else's account. There was an identity mix up. My guess is that Experian or Equifax, they're gonna be much more responsive than credit control who has no incentive to handle this other than maybe some teeth in a federal law that may or may not be being enforced at all right now.

Another benefit to creating this paper trail, forcing this radio silence. Some people have apparently used that silence to win F-D-C-P-A damages against debt collection agencies, which includes statutory penalties of up to a thousand dollars plus legal fees. If you're not getting anywhere or you're facing aggressive collection tactics, you know they're calling you every day.

They're bugging you. There's this, you know, kind of sketchy people calling you. You might wanna consult with a consumer protection attorney. They can provide guidance on your rights and the appropriate steps to take. You can also file complaints with your state's attorney general's office, the Federal Trade Commission, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, although TBD on how much longer that's gonna even be a thing.

This is a case where if these agencies get a ton of complaints about the same company, they might actually do something about it. Beyond that, I would also follow [00:50:00] some general best practices. Monitor your credit reports regularly, check for unfamiliar accounts, weird credit checks. I would definitely enroll in a credit monitoring service for real-time alerts.

They're like 10 bucks a month. You can also lock your credit so that if there's a inquiry on it, it will not work. That's great 'cause it means people can't just open accounts without you knowing and unlocking it. Secure your personal information. Shred documents, use strong passwords. Avoid sharing sensitive information online and look for red flags from credit control and any other companies.

If they ever give you vague or incorrect information, if they threaten you with jail or legal action, which is often illegal by the way, if they pressure you to pay immediately or via unusual methods, like they want gift cards from Target or cryptocurrency. If they contact you about more debts that you don't recognize, especially if they can't produce any documentation that is either at best super shady or it is a straight up scam and you just don't have to engage further.

So that is your best bet for getting out in front of this. I'm so sorry that it's not easier, but that [00:51:00] is, you know, probably by design, these companies know what they're doing. They're so shady. People probably pay up all the time when it's like 40 bucks. It's like, oh, I'll just pay this other person's debt just 'cause I don't have time to deal with it.

They do that because it's easier than fighting them or they're scared, or they don't even realize the debt isn't theirs. They're like, oh, Jordan Harbinger in Alaska. Oh, it's probably me. I don't know. I just don't remember. I mean, this is awful, but this is probably how they make tens of millions of dollars a year doing this at scale.

So it sucks that you're gonna have to spend some time fighting this, but unfortunately, yeah, you have to protect your credit score. Keep fighting the good fight and good luck. And now you can help us pay our bills by checking out the amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Hammer Made.

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Use promo code Jordan. That's Hammer made.com/jordan promo code Jordan. This episode is sponsored in part by the defender. We all have those big goals that seem just outta reach, right? But the truth is that's what keeps us moving forward. For the people who embrace challenges and explore their way, there's the defender.

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This episode is sponsored in part by Audible. People always ask me how I managed to get through so much content, especially since I prep for every interview. I'm talking two to three books a week, and it's all thanks to Audible. I've got Audible in my ears while I'm getting my 10,000 steps in running errands, even doing stuff around the house.

I don't mess with physical books anymore at all. Audible's, just way more efficient. I listen on two or even three X speed, which lets me cover a lot of ground without [00:54:00] sacrificing quality. Right now, I'm listening to Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy. She's got this really down to earth way of talking about parenting that is not preachy.

And here's what a lot of people don't realize. Audible is not just audio books anymore. You get access to thousands of titles with your membership, podcasts, audible originals, and cool stuff like their words in music series where artists tell their stories in their own words. The variety makes the membership way more valuable, so you never run outta great stuff to check out.

One day. I'm deep in a parenting guide. The next, it's a podcast or a spy thriller. So whether you're into suspense, self-development, or you just wanna make traffic suck less audible's got you covered.

Jen Harbinger: Start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat. New members can try Audible now free for 30 days and dive into a world of new thrills.

Visit audible.com/jhs or text JHS to 500 500. That's audible.com/jhs, or text JHS to 500 500.

Jordan Harbinger: If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the [00:55:00] podcast are searchable and clickable over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

You can also email us if you can't find a code you're not sure if it works. We're happy to dig up codes for you because it is that important. It is that crucial that you support those who support the show. Now, back to feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I started my current job about five months ago while I was applying to law schools in my city.

I've now been accepted to one of them and am scheduled to start classes full-time in the fall.

Jordan Harbinger: Nice. Well done. Everybody be getting into grad school today.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I knew from the jump that I would leave this job if I were accepted, but the people I work with have been so kind and friendly. I've made a few friendships that go beyond the office.

They even threw me a surprise bridal shower before my wedding, so I haven't told anyone that I will be leaving in a few months. I was gonna keep it under wraps until about a month before I leave and then schedule a meeting with my boss to tell her the news. But my husband and I are taking our delayed honeymoon this summer, and between that and his work schedule, I only have two weeks at work [00:56:00] before leaving for good.

On top of that, my boss happened to mention the other day that our organization is anticipating budget cuts next year, and any position that's unfilled at that time will most likely be cut with few exceptions. Unfortunately, that will be right around the time I plan to leave, so it'll probably leave my department one person short and having to pick up my old responsibilities.

I know it's a job and it's normal for people to leave jobs, and the timing isn't always great, but the whole thing makes me feel guilty. Am I overthinking all of this? When should I let my bosses know that I'll be leaving? How should I handle this and maintain a good relationship with the people I work with after I leave signed?

Trying to be a student of how to be most prudent and help with this recruitment before I turned to jurisprudence.

Jordan Harbinger: Congrats on getting into law school. I remember how intense that process was. It is a big accomplishment. You should be proud. This is actually a good question. I appreciate that you're looking ahead.

You're trying to handle this as well as you can, so no, I don't think you're overthinking this. [00:57:00] How you handle these transitions, it does matter, especially given the unique facts here, but there's really only one thing you need to do, which is you need to tell your boss that you are leaving as soon as possible.

This conversation is not going to get easier. The longer you wait. Your guilt is only gonna get worse. The best thing you can do for them and for your relationship is to give them plenty of time to plan for this transition and find your replacement. If they are going to replace you, if you spring this on them two weeks before you leave, knowing that there are budget cuts coming and they could leave your team in a lurch, that's really the only thing that can truly compromise your relationship.

So I would book a meeting with your boss and say something like, listen, I have some news. This might be a bit of a bummer, but I wanted to tell you as soon as possible I got into law school. It's been my dream for some time, and sadly that means I'll have to leave the company to start classes in the fall, but I'm here to make the transition as seamless as possible.

I'm happy to help you train my replacement. I'll do everything I can to wrap up my work, hand it off to the right person, make sure the team keeps humming. My hope is [00:58:00] that this gives you enough time to fill my position before the budget cuts you mentioned, and that no one will have to scramble when I'm gone.

I'm sorry that my time here was relatively brief. Thank you for being so kind and awesome to me. I promise to do everything I can to make these last few months super productive. I'm so glad we got to work together and I hope we can stay close after I leave. It's really that simple. And then you and your boss can put a plan together.

Now, they might be thrown a little or disappointed at first. Change is always stressful for a boss, especially when they're running into something like this and they probably really like you. But don't let that drag you down. You're not doing anything wrong. You have a very good reason for leaving, and this conversation is gonna go a long way.

And then make good on your promise, follow through. Be helpful to your boss and colleagues until your last day. They will love you for it. If you do all that, you'll be doing everything in your power to maintain good relationships with them. And I love that you're thinking about this. But yeah, don't delay.

Have this conversation as soon as possible, definitely before you go on your honeymoon, but probably a few weeks or more before that. Get it outta the way and you'll be fine. And [00:59:00] hey, have fun at law school. It might be stressful, but it is also a great time to be around some super smart people and frankly, some bad shit, crazy people who are going to be doing interesting things in the future.

So try to enjoy it even when you're pulling one of those infamous all-nighters. Frankly, you sound more thoughtful than 90% of the lawyers I know. So something tells me you're gonna be one of the good ones. Good luck. Alright, and now it's time for the recommendation of the week.

Lip Filla Clip: I am addicted to lit filler.

Jordan Harbinger: My recommendation of the week is, and I got this from, I believe CH fans never dump medication in the toilet or in the sink. Don't throw drugs down the drain. It is so bad for the water supply. Gabe, have you ever heard that a lot of water, like urban water supplies, they have like birth control pee runoff and it can affect your hormones.

You ever heard this?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. I've also heard that in certain countries the, the runoff water is dangerously high levels of cocaine. Like they tested the water in London. No. And they were like, everyone here is doing cocaine.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Geez. Wow. Okay. Well, no, don't throw drugs [01:00:00] down the drain unless it's in your urine.

Unless it's cocaine. Unless it's That's you were about to say, in which case you probably, yeah. Unless it's cocaine, then you don't have a choice. But yeah, you can take drugs and medications to a pharmacy slash drugstore to dispose of properly. You can take it to hazardous waste for disposal. It's kinda the place where you put batteries.

Also for E-waste. This is an awesome hack for things like wires and little battery things and chargers or whatever, you know, you can't really recycle those and throwing 'em away as a waste. Take it to staples. They do it not only for free. Take it from you for free. They give you a $10 coupon, which you can spend on, I don't know, more e-waste for later, or get some, get you some Sharpies.

Those things cost a pretty penny. That's it. Quick and dirty this week. What's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and my future husband Gabriel.

Jordan Harbinger: Whoa. Okay. I'm not so sure he's your future husband. Did you not hear about the shoulder massage that had a couple weeks ago? Swing

Gabriel Mizrahi: Nice. Plus we already have a show together, so we're halfway there already. That's right. But yeah, [01:01:00] so the future member of our throuple goes on. My ex-husband Michael and I had a terrible relationship and that continues seven years after our divorce.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, the fourth member of our throuple sounds terrible.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Not on board with this guy. No. I gained full custody of my children six years ago. They were 11 and nine at the time after it was discovered that he was using meth.

Jordan Harbinger: Ooh. Yeah. So sad.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Good thing. I only do fentanyl, huh?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, for real.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Definitely an upgrade from Michael

Jordan Harbinger: Fenty, an element electrolyte packets cocktail of champions

Gabriel Mizrahi: that's gonna end up in the water runoff supply as well, I think.

Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: At that time, he was ordered to pay child support. Since then, his mother pays the child support and he supposedly pays her back. Today was the day child support was due, and she's outta town, so she texted me apologizing for not paying it on time and saying that she would get it to me over the weekend.

I responded by saying, well, it's Michael's responsibility, but okay. Snarky. When I told my mother what I [01:02:00] said, she said, that was rude and that I should have just said, thank you. Yeah. My mother and his mother are friends and sometimes spend time together also, I just learned the term justice sensitivity, and I 100% have this.

I get quite heated when my ex says or does something that I don't think is fair to my children. And also when I see injustice in the world, justice sensitivity, I think

Jordan Harbinger: I know what she might mean by that, but Is there a text? Yeah. You want me to explain? So what,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I have to look this one up too. So justice sensitivity is the tendency to be extra sensitive to noticing injustice.

Okay. That's exactly what it sounds like. But people who have this, I guess tend to react very emotionally to it. You kind of obsess over it and some people feel an urge to undo or fix it, which can either lead to like aggressive behavior or it can lead to pro-social behavior depending on the person, depending on the situation.

Okay. Got it. Makes sense. Do you think I should say thank you to a person who's paying for someone else's responsibility, signed a frustrated spouse prone to grouse about my unreliable ex-spouse? Is it fair to call his mom out [01:03:00] or should I be grateful to her for keeping us outta the alms house?

Jordan Harbinger: Interesting question. Okay. Look, I. You obviously have a great deal of anger towards your ex-husband, and you have some good reasons for that. The drug use, the failure to pay child support, what that says about his ability to provide for your children, which probably triggers that justice sensitivity that you mentioned, and probably a dozen other reasons around all that I can only imagine.

I am gonna guess that you feel disappointed in him left alone, angry on behalf of your kids. I also think that you have some feelings about his mom paying for his child support for him. It clearly does not sit right with you that she's stepping in and letting him off the hook for this very important responsibility.

Like why does this guy who had rather go do meth than be a good dad get to be saved by his mother? And yeah, I get it. Those are tough feelings to carry around as a single mom. I think when Michael's mom texted you that day, some of those feelings probably came up again and she was just the easiest audience for them.

And yeah, it just probably

Gabriel Mizrahi: kind of came out. I wonder if there was also a little [01:04:00] jab in there too, like, well, you raised them. Nice work lady. You know?

Jordan Harbinger: Uh, I could see that. I mean, her letter was short, but there are a lot of big feelings in between the lines. I'm not just talking about her marriage proposal to you, Gabe.

Oh, God. Uh, but here's the thing. Michael's mom, whatever her mistakes were, however you feel about her, wherever she went wrong, raising her drug addict kid, if she even did anything, you know, this woman is a godsend, okay? She is. The difference between you guys getting a child support check every month and being entirely on your own, and these are her grandchildren, I have to think she's helping out because she cares about them too.

So, yes, of course you should say thank you to her. She deserves your appreciation. I am quite sure that she also carries her own tough feelings about her son. I am sure that she knows that having to pay his child support, whether he pays her back eventually or not. And let's be honest, come on man. I know she knows that that's not ideal.

So to help you guys out and then get a text like the one you sent her, I'm sure that that cuts deep. It definitely doesn't do anything to strengthen your [01:05:00] relationship, and I gotta say that's it's an important relationship, not just for you, but also because she's friends with your mom and the grandmother of your kids.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Completely agree. Although that mom connection is interesting too, I'm guessing her mom was concerned about what that text would do to her relationship with Michael's mom. Yeah. So maybe that was also hard for our friend to feel that her mom might have been prioritizing herself and her friend over her daughter and her feelings.

Jordan Harbinger: I hear that. But both are fair and it doesn't change the fact that Michael's mom is still doing something really kind here.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, no, for sure. I agree to your point. Her feelings are probably very valid, but this is not the right person to work out these feelings through. It serves no purpose. So you have some work to do in getting a handle on these feelings and hopefully finding some ways of working through them or making peace with them.

I also think you need to learn to work with this justice sensitivity thing a little bit more. You know, to recognize that when you have an outsized reaction to something that is unfair, like for example, watching your ex be unreliable and then be saved by his mother, when your kids are the ones who might pay the price, you might need to tell yourself, okay, [01:06:00] this is my justice thing kicking in.

I'm not wrong, but it's not necessarily the full story. I need to adjust for that a little bit and cool down before I decide what to do or say,

Jordan Harbinger: or even better get to the roots of this justice sensitivity, why these perceived injustices are so triggering in the first place. 'cause I'm sure there are some formative experiences that have wired you that way.

Mm-hmm. But as a parent, I can confirm. I think all parents have some degree of justice sensitivity. It's hard not to get worked up when something unfair happens to your kids. So I really do get that. But yeah, it's only in your interest to have as productive and loving a relationship with your ex-mother-in-law as possible.

It doesn't sound like she's doing anything else egregious. She's just doing her best to try to take care of you guys that might be enabling her son or overlooking some messed up behavior on his part. But you know, that's their business. Your business is taking care of your feelings in the most productive way and meeting the person who's helping you with love and gratitude.

It's not always easy when emotions are running high, but just take a step [01:07:00] back, everything will become clearer and good luck. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself.

Build that same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course. The course is a hundred percent free. It's not gross. It's not schmoozy. It's free on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Folks. Build relationships before you need them. Keep them strong over years.

Just takes a few minutes a day. You can find it all@sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Insta at Gabriel Rahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Rahi.

This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing things that you hear on the show.

And [01:08:00] remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

You are about to hear a preview with James Patterson and what would make the bestselling author walk away at the top of his game?

JHS Clip: It's rare that I don't write. What I discovered was that I loved doing it, and then I started writing stories and I just loved it. I didn't know whether I was any good, but I loved doing it, and I would just write, write, write, write, write.

So when the first book came out, Thomas Berryman number gave Little Brown a blurb, and he said that I'm quite sure that James Patterson wrote a million words before he started this book. It was a great compliment. And then I decided I tried novel. I'm really happy with the way that turned out. One of the things you always like to do at the end of the chapter is they must turn that next page.

That's a strength. The weaknesses, I sometimes don't [01:09:00] go as deep as I should. Here's the secret. Hit 'em in the face with a cream pie. And while you have their attention, say something smart. That's it. No cream pie. They didn't even notice it. So forget about it. You're just talking to yourself. And if you don't say something smart, once you get their attention, it's irrelevant.

You surprise people, which I think is important for my kind of book. We need heroes. And one of the things about the military, and it's very true in this book, in American Heroes, but also walking my combat boots, the military is about we, not me. And one of the things I think we need to get back to a bit more is we, and it is hard to come by now, duty, honor, sacrifice.

It just has to be more. We rather than just me

Jordan Harbinger: to hear more. As James Patterson reveals the moment that changed his life and the unconventional process that's helped him sell over 400 million books. Check out episode 1100 of The Jordan Harbinger [01:10:00] Show.