1268: A Week After Hospice, Dad’s Got a New Mrs. | Feedback Friday

1268: A Week After Hospice, Dad's Got a New Mrs. | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday, number 409. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the multipurpose cleaner wiping down this dirty countertop of life drama, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Very clever. I'm

glad I'm not the generic brand, by the way.

Jordan Harbinger: The one that one's 30 cents less, but leaves weird streaks on your mirror? No, that ain't you, dog. You the premium cleaning solution.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, not the Rite Aid private label. That kind of doesn't work and smells like vinegar.

Jordan Harbinger: But they're all in the same factor.

It's the same thing. They just label it different. I'm convinced sometimes they do leave those streaks though, and you're like, uh, I should have, should have shelled out for 4 0 9.

I should have opted for the nice one. That's right.

On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, arms dealers, former jihadis, money laundering [00:01:00] experts, hostage negotiators. This week we had Dr. Rhonda Patrick on Brain Health, what you might be eating or not eating that is affecting your gray matter and some easy low hanging fruit To improve cognitive performance.

On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and compare Gabe to various consumer packaged goods Apparently. Before we jump into the letters, Gabe, funny story, last week we had a huge storm and the power went out, but we have these backup batteries that we bought and keep the fridge on and stuff, so I turn off everything to conserve energy.

Jen won't even let me use the office light. She's like, you know, open the window. It sounds like my dad in the eighties. Then I head into the living room and I look out the window and I see that she's using the battery backup, just roast a prime rib in the Bradley smoker. So I can't use the lights or the bidet.

I literally can't wash my ass,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but she's roasting a fricking prime rib. Okay, so I did hear about this in the company Slack, but didn't she say that you guys were hosting a huge dinner for like 22 people [00:02:00] that night? Yes,

Jordan Harbinger: we did, and it was delicious. Okay. I just thought it was funny that she was turning off everything in the house and she's we're on battery backup.

What are you doing? There's no hot water, for example,

Gabriel Mizrahi: which uses like what 0.005 kilowatt. She did also say that you had the lights on in your studio, but the blackout curtains closed, which. Is an unnecessary use of electricity.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I mean, we have LED bulbs. I guess I can remove the acoustic panels from my windows, and then light will come in from outside and then everyone can see my studio from the backyard, and I don't have that feeling.

Of being alone. When I work, I have kids like pressed up to the windows looking at me while I'm trying to do something.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That is a nice feeling. Yeah. Being alone. The

Jordan Harbinger: being alone part. Yeah. I just, I feel like my psychological wellbeing might deserve some backup electricity as well. Fair enough. I

Gabriel Mizrahi: don't know.

But you do love the Bradley smoker, so it's hard to say which one is more important. That's right.

Jordan Harbinger: Speaking of rumps, you can smoke yours in a Bradley smoker. That product is so good. So they only sponsored the show because we bought it and we were like, this is the best thing ever. And they're [00:03:00] like, oh, okay.

Well I heard you have a podcast, we should sponsor you. So they did, and it's such a cool product. It's a smoker that doesn't burn the little pellets. It just smokes them to the point where they get burned and then it switches automatically to another one. So you don't get the charcoal smoker taste. You just get whatever's in the wood like the cherry or whatever.

The meat that comes out of there is next level. If you're into that, which I know you're not. All right, Gabe, what's the first thing outta the mail bag? Dear Jordan and Gabe,

Gabriel Mizrahi: my stepmom has been mom to me since I was 10. My biological mother left when I was three years old. My dad and mom have been married for 44 years, built businesses together, traveled the world, and were best friends.

Then six years ago, my mom was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. My dad has been her full-time caregiver, and honestly, he was a saint. It has been a brutal, heartbreaking decline involving the inability to care for herself, anger and sadness, almost total loss of speech and total memory loss. I know that he suffered [00:04:00] greatly during those years.

Jordan Harbinger: Man, I'm so sorry to hear this. This is a really tough thing to go through for all of you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So sad.

Jordan Harbinger: Her poor dad, man. To lose your friend and your partner in every conceivable way after 44 years is so tragic, and her to just watch her mom fade away has just gotta be so hard to watch.

Gabriel Mizrahi: However, things have taken a dark and bizarre turn.

Three months ago, dad reconnected with Debbie, a woman he knew from his days in the Jim Rohn personal development industry in the seventies. Oh boy. Are you saying, oh boy, to Debbie or to the Jim Rohn

Jordan Harbinger: part? Mostly the Debbie thing. I don't know much about Jim Rohn. He was before my time. I think this was like before I was born, type of self-help, and I'm pretty sure he's not too controversial.

I think it's like sales

Gabriel Mizrahi: stuff, kind of like Dale Carnegie esque stuff.

Jordan Harbinger: I actually had some of his tapes and giant plastic binders when I was young from the nineties, and my dad got 'em from work or something. I don't remember anything about them really. Pre-internet nineties, audible. Yeah. Where you, you know what I'm talking about.

You have a trapper keeper full of [00:05:00] cassettes that were labeled like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Take them out one at a time. Put them in the machine. We are dating ourselves. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: And then flip it around and then the next one. And the next one. Exactly. Yeah. I would put 'em in the same category as Dale Carnegie, I suppose.

Very basic, solid advice, but solid. True. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing like, it's not culty or anything.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Suddenly he booked a cruise with Debbie for a break. He came back energized, claiming they were starting a caregiver support business and an AI platform together. Debbie started flying in to help quote pack up mom's things, unquote, to move her into a hospice facility.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow, Debbie, don't waste no time. That's not

Gabriel Mizrahi: appropriate. Four weeks ago, a room opened up and we moved mom into care. It was devastating to leave her there. One week later, literally seven days after moving his wife of 44 years out of the house, dad called to say that he and Debbie were getting married.

Jordan Harbinger: No.

Oh, ick. That's ridiculous. Come [00:06:00] on, man. Come on.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Not legally, of course, my lifelong agnostic father, who usually mocks religion suddenly accepted Jesus because Debbie wouldn't move in until they were married. In the eyes of God. They had an afic come to the living room and she moved in immediately. Dude, you know what this reminds, have you seen Team

Jordan Harbinger: America?

World Police? Yes, but I don't remember it very well. It's the dumbest movie in the world, but it's so ridiculous and funny. So there's a scene where it's all puppets, right? So like one of the female puppets is like, she says something like, promise me you'll never die and I'll have sex with you right now.

And then other puppet's like, I will never die. This is what it's like. Like, okay, my dad, who usually mocks religion suddenly accepted Jesus because Debbie wouldn't move in AKA sleep in the same bed as him until they were married in the eyes of God. So I can imagine her being like, I'm sorry, I just can't sleep with you until we're married in the eyes of God.

And he's like, you know what? Jesus guy. He I, God is this guy an offic? Where's that priest? Have him come over this afternoon. But in all seriousness, [00:07:00] this is wild and it's gross. It must be so unsettling to watch your own parent make such a huge 180 like this just outta nowhere

Gabriel Mizrahi: under the influence of a new person.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, exactly. Even if there's something real between him and Debbie, which, okay, maybe there is, it's still, it's so unsettling and it's dodgy, man. This is happening way too fast.

Gabriel Mizrahi: They're now planning a honeymoon while my mom sits alone in a facility. 15 minutes away, gross. Dad has visited exactly once, claiming, quote unquote, it's too hard, and quote, she doesn't know we're there anyway, unquote.

But she does know. My daughters and I visit weekly and mom lights up when we walk in. She hugs us, kisses us, and talks to us in her way. We want her to know she's not forgotten.

Jordan Harbinger: Of course. That is very touching and very sad, so he's just like, I'm done. I'm gonna pretend that it doesn't matter if I'm there anyway.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I'm going to Fiji with my old Jim Rohn batty.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I'm just gonna hit up the open bar on a Royal Caribbean cruise with my self-help

Gabriel Mizrahi: side piece. [00:08:00] Man. I'm so glad you guys still visit your mom. That's the right thing to do, and it's very sweet.

Jordan Harbinger: It is, and I can only imagine how much that means to her living in a facility like that.

I mean, I don't know much about what goes on in the brain of somebody who has dementia, but people in your life that you love live all over your brain. My grandma had dementia and I would walk in, she would call me Charlie, which is one of her sons. She still was like, it's a person I love that I haven't seen in a long time.

She wasn't like, who are you? Get outta here. That's different. I suppose if they literally think you're good worker at the place every time and they have no memory of you, but if they get your name wrong or they, they're like, oh, that's my son. They're still happy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, she's lighting up. That tells you everything basically.

Yeah, exactly. It gets worse. Dad and Debbie are now planning to buy a hundred acres in the Nevada desert to build a compound where we can all live rent free. He has become increasingly right wing and conspiracy minded, and he's pressuring me to join their new business venture. I visited my parents' house [00:09:00] recently to keep the peace and it was unbearable seeing this woman acting like the new wife in my mother's home.

Damn dude. This

Jordan Harbinger: is like a bad movie of the week. This is Hallmark Channel Lifetime

Gabriel Mizrahi: Movie Nonsense. Now he wants us all to come over for family get togethers. My daughters want nothing to do with him, and I feel like I'm watching a manic episode or a long con unfold in real time.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I hate to say it, but you might be.

It does sound like a manic episode or a long con.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't want to cut my dad off. He's been through hell as a caregiver, but couldn't he have waited even a few months at least? Mom is still here. My daughters and I can't stomach pretending this is normal. My brothers are stunned and dad hasn't told most of the family because he knows how it looks

Jordan Harbinger: interesting.

So on some level, at least he knows this isn't right. That could be useful,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think. How do I set boundaries with my dad without cutting him off completely, especially while my mom is still alive and still needs us? How do I navigate the situation in a way that protects my emotional [00:10:00] wellbeing without abandoning him and his grief and whatever this new dynamic is?

Signed trying to stop my audacious pops from opening up shop with a woman who made him drop, which might all be a twisted psyop

Jordan Harbinger: man. What a situation. I can only imagine what Christmas was like this past year. This is so uncomfortable, man. You think they went over there? It goes without saying that all this is very suss, very alarming.

I'm not sure what the worst part is, that he's pretending your mom doesn't recognize him, that he's fake remarried a new woman a week after moving her into a new facility at her suggestion and that he is changing so many of his beliefs in such a short amount of time. I think that's probably one of the biggest red flags, and he's got this cock made me plan to buy a compound and start an AI company.

I mean, it's hard to even put words to this. It is so bizarre. If this were my dad, I'd be going outta my mind right now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: In addition to being scary and hurtful, it also strikes me as very thoughtless. He's not attuned to how everyone else is gonna feel about this. He's not even [00:11:00] trying to explain to his own family why he's going through such a transformation, why he is getting involved with the new person.

In a way that's the most disturbing part.

Jordan Harbinger: The part of him that doesn't realize that's necessary. That might be the same part of him that is willing to do all this. The more I hear about this, the more I'm like, have you had your dad tested for cognitive decline too? 'cause this is weird as hell.

Interesting

Gabriel Mizrahi: question. Yeah. Or it might be the part of him that's vulnerable, which I think is what you're concerned about.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's hard to know which one it is. Is he carrying on with this other woman because he genuinely likes her and he wants to start a new life? Or is she moving in on him because she wants a piece of his life?

Honestly,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I cannot tell. Can't tell either. I suppose both could be true to some degree. It's just, it's so confusing. There's so much going on here. That said, there's obviously some reason your dad is doing all of this. Right? And the reason seems to be that the last six years, and who knows, maybe this began before your mom was diagnosed.

Those years were really tough on him. Like you said, he suffered greatly during that time, taking care of a spouse with dementia. I hear that it is a unique [00:12:00] heartbreak. Very challenging. You know this well. And I'm guessing that he's exhausted and he feels like he sacrificed a lot and he wants a different life now and or he feels okay this chapter's over time to start a new one.

Jordan Harbinger: As usual. You're way more compassionate and understanding than I am.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Just to be clear. I'm not excusing anything he's done. I mean, there's a reason you say like in sickness and in health, I think he's basically leaving his wife in a facility like it's not fair. I'm just trying to understand what might be going through this guy's mind.

Jordan Harbinger: No, I hear you. Even if he's 100% in the wrong here. There's some logic at work here. I think I can kind of understand it, this self-interested logic, but yeah, there's some logic to it. Fine. I'll cop to that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I also find it very worrisome that Debbie is willing to move so quickly. Fine, I'll concede

Jordan Harbinger: that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But I also find it very worrisome that this woman is willing to move so quickly without any concern for how it comes across.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's okay. That's one of the biggest red flags here. If I were the new woman in a situation like this, and if I were a normal person, [00:13:00] yeah, I would be going, okay, this is a very unusual situation. Let's slow things down. I gotta get to know your kids. Let me give them a chance to know me. 'cause obviously I wanna have a good relationship with them and the rest of your family.

And I wanna make them see that, I mean, we're a better fit right now and that I'm gonna help with your current wife or whatever. I'm not trying to take her place right away. And meanwhile, like that's not what's happening.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The fact that she's willing to act like the new wife in their family home without even trying to talk to the kids and make her case to them in some way, that is bizarre and disrespectful in my opinion.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. She's either as obtuse as their dad is, or she knows exactly how it all looks and she just doesn't care,

Gabriel Mizrahi: which it kind of casts the compound in Nevada in a potentially dangerous light. What is her game here? But then my first thought was that Debbie might be isolating the dad. Let's move far away from your kids and start this whole new life and then I can control our whole world.

But then our friend said that the dad wants them all to move in together and live rent free. So maybe that's not as [00:14:00] manipulative as it sounds.

Jordan Harbinger: I had the same thought, getting a mixed picture there. That might be more of a don't tread on me. I gotta have my own compound where I can be free of Uncle Sam type move.

It might be more that than a, I gotta isolate this guy from

Gabriel Mizrahi: his kids move still. It would be a very big change for all of them. If he moves, then I'm guessing he'll probably never visit his wife ever again.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah, yeah. So I'm getting the sense that they haven't really sat down as a family and talked to their dad about any of this, or at least about the compound and all this other stuff.

Yeah, it doesn't sound

Gabriel Mizrahi: like

Jordan Harbinger: it. I think one big formal conversation as a family is essential. I would get together with your brothers, any close family and friends you have, and come up with a plan, and I would sit down with your dad and say something to the effect of, dad, we know how hard the last six years have been for you.

We know it's been taxing and heartbreaking to watch Mom decline, and we're here to listen to you and support you however you need, but we have to tell you your behavior. Over the last few months, it's been extremely painful for us to watch. It's been confusing, it's been hurtful, and we [00:15:00] need to talk to you about it.

Reconnecting with Debbie, marrying her, moving in together, going on a honeymoon, wanting to buy property. Starting a company radically changing your beliefs religiously, politically, in such a short amount of time, and then not talking to us about any of it or giving us time to catch up to where you are.

It's alarming, it's rash, it's bizarre, and honestly, it's disrespectful to everyone involved, especially mom. We don't recognize our own father anymore. We wanna stay close with you, dad, but you're making it very difficult by making so many big plans and prioritizing Debbie over us. We don't understand any of this, so we wanted to have a conversation as a family and try to understand this better.

How are you making these decisions? Are you aware of how they're impacting us? Why is Debbie so compelling to you? Why the rush? We've noticed your beliefs are changing pretty dramatically. Can you tell us where that's coming from? You say Mom doesn't recognize any of us, but she lights up when we visit her, so what makes you think she doesn't care if you visit?

Why didn't you talk to us about all of this in advance? Those are just a few of the questions I would [00:16:00] ask, and I know this is gonna be hard, but I would start by asking those questions rather than chewing him out and punishing him from the get go, even though I think he largely deserves it now, my fear is that your dad, even if he wants to be with Debbie, even if he's actively making these decisions with her, my fear is that he is, to some degree being influenced by her and he's confused and he's caught up in what sounds like a kind of, you said manic.

It's a manic, exuberant, it's a fantastical vision for his life, and he needs to feel understood and listened to in order to feel safe going, okay, I might be caught up here. I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm not doing right by mom. I made a mistake.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But once he answers your questions, if he answers your questions and you build some of that trust, then I do think you have license to say, dad, I know this might be hard to hear, but we feel that you're handling all of this the wrong way.

We're willing to forgive you and work through all of this, but you need to acknowledge some stuff and make things right. Mom does know when we visit, you are still married to her. You can't just turn your back on [00:17:00] her. She needs us. She deserves our love. Even if you think it's okay to start a new relationship, you are moving way too quickly with Debbie.

Debbie might have some interest here that you don't seem to be fully recognizing and you're hurting and scaring your family by doing this. So please slow way down and you need to be honest with yourself and you need to seriously reevaluate what you're doing here and on what timeline. Whatever it is you want him to know.

But I think Jordan is right. If you lead with that, I'm worried that he's gonna get defensive and shut down. You know, like nobody understands me. Only Debbie gets me. We're moving to Nevada, and then you won't have any line of communication with him.

Jordan Harbinger: Look, if her dad had come to them, like. Six months or a year after his wife went into the facility and said, listen, the last six years have been hell.

Mom's in a facility now. She's being well taken care of. She can barely speak. She doesn't even remember that I'm her husband or what. We were together. I'm still gonna go visit her. I'm still gonna be in her life, but the woman I married is gone and it breaks my heart, but I still have the rest of my [00:18:00] life to lead and I wanna start building a new one.

And if he hadn't already gotten involved with a secret girlfriend, crucial piece of data, yeah, that would be a different story. And I'd still say a slow down, dude, you took vows. You don't just get to ditch your wife when she has Alzheimer's. How would you like it if she did that to you?

Gabriel Mizrahi: But at least he would be doing this with some degree of integrity, some propriety.

Jordan Harbinger: I can at least understand that what he's doing here, starting a new relationship with a woman while his wife is declining, moving her into a facility

Gabriel Mizrahi: seemingly at his new girlfriend's insistence, which is just so messy.

Jordan Harbinger: Also a crucial fact. Yeah, exactly. It's like he was taking care of her at home and then it's new girlfriend's like, I can't have this woman in my house put her in a home.

It's just gross. And then he secretly makes all these decisions and plans with her and marries her in the living room, I guess popping up like surprise. I'm married to someone new and I've accepted Jesus and I have totally new beliefs and I'm moving to Nevada and Mom doesn't need me anymore. So it's all fine.

It's all too hard anyway. That

Gabriel Mizrahi: is not right.

Jordan Harbinger: No, especially this starting things up with Debbie part, so I feel your dad, [00:19:00] he needs to grasp that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And if he can't grasp that, then I think he needs to understand that not grasping. That is also a huge problem.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, there's a part of his brain missing, or his morality is compromised and he's alienating his family in the process.

I also wanna know more about this property in

Gabriel Mizrahi: Nevada.

Jordan Harbinger: Obviously, my mind is going to the worst possible scenario, which is that he's putting up the money and basically giving Debbie a house in Nevada. The fact that they're not legally married, that does help things a little bit. But what really matters is whose name is on the deed for a property, because again, an attorney in Nevada would be the best person to talk to about this.

But what that means is if his name and her name are on the title and then she's like, ah, I don't love you anymore. She gets half the house. Most likely, there's some nuance to it. It doesn't matter that he paid for it, it really doesn't if her name's on the title. Anyway, I would really help your dad look objectively at this and make sure that this relationship is real and not just about assets and a good time.

Gabriel Mizrahi: In terms of boundaries that allow you to walk this line, I think that really comes down to what values and feelings you wanna protect. Maybe you say, dad, we'll see you [00:20:00] one-on-one, but the girls and I can't come over and do family get togethers with Debbie. It's too weird. It's too soon. I'm not on board.

Sorry. Or maybe you say, dad, I still wanna be in your life, but I'm not interested in moving to Nevada and joining your new company, whatever that is, chat, GPT for Dementia Companions, or whatever. I'm not very unclear, so please don't bring that up again.

Jordan Harbinger: Or maybe you tell him, look, I'll entertain the possibility that it's time for you to move on if you come to the facility and visit mom with me and see how she responds.

I guess that's more of a deal than a boundary, but I think that's fair game as well. And my hope is that if he's confronted with evidence that your mom does recognize him on some level, it'll be way harder for him to pretend that she's not there so that he can go bang Debbie and look at Doomsday Compounds on Zillow.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Basically, I would ask yourself, what do I need to have a safe relationship with my dad right now? What does my mom deserve and how do I also keep the line of communication open so I can still have some influence in the situation? I think that's gonna guide you well.

Jordan Harbinger: Look, there's no guarantee that your dad [00:21:00] is gonna listen to you.

There's a timeline where he sticks with Debbie and believes that this is the right life for him because it's easier among other things, in which case, as we constantly find ourselves saying on the show, you're gonna have to accept that and decide what kind of relationship you want to have with your dad and how to take care of yourself, your mom, and your daughters.

That might mean making peace with your dad's decision and believing that he's doing what feels right for him, even if it's not right. And that might mean drawing stronger boundaries. That might mean channeling your anger and sadness into loving your mom while you still have her, which I do think is the most important thing, and the peace that you control the most.

Beyond that, I'm just not sure what else you can do. This is family. This is conflict. It's not always resolvable, but I do think you have a shot here and you gotta at least try. Crazy thing y'all are going through, sending you your mom and your daughters a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know it's a great addition to your underground desert bunker, Gabriel.

Find products and services that support this show. We'll be right [00:22:00] back. This episode is also sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Every January we act like we need to reinvent ourselves from scratch when really most of us just have a couple of internal software bugs. Therapy is basically like running the update that fixes the glitches so you can function without overheating.

I've been working through a few personal things myself, nothing I'm gonna overshare here, but I've been consistent with BetterHelp for a long time and having that neutral outside perspective has really been huge. And BetterHelp makes the whole process so easy. You take a short questionnaire, they match you with a licensed US therapist using over 12 years of matching experience and the fit isn't right.

Switch anytime. Zero drama. The platform is enormous. 30,000 plus therapists, over 5 million people served and live sessions average 4.9 outta five stars from 1.7 million reviews. That is not luck. That is a track record. So if you wanna start the year running a little smoother, not rebuilding yourself from the ground up better helps got your back.

Jen Harbinger: BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off at [00:23:00] betterhelp.com/jordan. That's betterhelp.com/jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Cape Co. We spend all this time trying to protect our privacy VPNs, incognito browsers, private messaging apps, but none of that fixes the biggest vulnerability, which is your mobile carrier.

All the big carriers have had breach after breach, and their business model often involves collecting and selling your data. That's why I've been looking into Cape. It's a secure mobile carrier built from the ground up with privacy and security first, but you still get premium cell service just like you'd expect.

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They also protect against sketchy network level attacks with enhanced signaling protection. Encrypt your voicemail, even keep payment private. With tokenized billing, if you care about privacy, cape is the missing layer. Most people ignore the sell network itself.

Jen Harbinger: Go to cape.co/jordan Harbinger and use promo code Jordan [00:24:00] 33 for 33% off for six months.

Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening to and supporting the show, your Supportive, our sponsors keeps the lights on around here. Actually, it doesn't keep the lights on all the time, but it keeps the smoker working in the backyard on busy days and maybe just, maybe I can wash my butt sometimes. Anyway, they're all searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now. Back to feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I first wrote you back in 2023. I was navigating a career transition from bedside nursing where I'd worked for 10 years into a role as a company manager of a mental health consulting company.

You helped me through multiple challenges, including setting me up with a wonderful style coach and negotiating for compensation that reflected my hard work and experience. I'm happy to say that I have finally achieved a career as a behavioral healthcare advocate for a major health insurance company.

It's a fully remote role, offering great hours, excellent [00:25:00] salary and benefits. And a strong team with great leadership. I've also made huge strides in my mental and physical health over the past few years. I was incredibly depressed for a time and relapsed badly into disordered eating. I've dealt with anorexia on and off since age 14.

I've managed to find an antidepressant that actually works as well as supportive friends and social support. Over the past few years, I've gained almost 45 pounds, so I'm now healthy instead of skeletal. Started dressing well and caring for my physical health, and built incredible muscle and stamina by doing indoor rowing and walking every day.

Jordan Harbinger: That's amazing. Well done my friend. That is a ton of growth In a relatively short amount of time, you should be really proud of yourself.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I've been single since 2012, and I truly believe that ship had sailed. I've never wanted kids and thought I wasn't capable of dating in addition to being completely undesirable.

Then this year, a good friend convinced me to get on Bumble and give it [00:26:00] a shot. Eventually I met Frank. Frank lives 45 minutes away in a small college town. I am miserable in suburbia. It's not the place for a child-free woman with pit bulls and a motorcycle, and I've been debating where to relocate for a long time.

Frank and I headed off and I'm really happy with him. We've now been dating for about four months. We see each other three to four times a week and text daily. We both deleted our dating apps a while back, and he met my family at Thanksgiving. It went great and my family likes him a lot. He's very supportive of my decision to remain child free, and he said he's perfectly content not having children himself.

The issue is, I don't know if he likes me, finds me attractive, cares about me, or really anything. We hug, kiss, cuddle. We've slept together a few times and he's physically affectionate, but he's never said anything about caring about me or if he thinks I'm remotely attractive. The way he talks feels like I'm just a [00:27:00] buddy.

There's no affection or emotion at all. I've tried expressing how I feel to him, and I even tried to talk to him about this when I brought it up. He quickly said, of course I like you and think you're attractive. Cuddled up and gave me a kiss and changed the subject so fast. I don't even know how he managed it.

Interesting. I'm just not confident that he really cares about me at all. My low self-esteem doesn't help. I feel like I'm an ugly tomboy, so why would anyone like me much less love me? Oh man, that's tough to hear,

Jordan Harbinger: but I hear you. These are the thoughts that come up and they're strong. We'll talk about it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: This sounds crazy, but he verbalizes more affection to my dogs than he does to me. He literally tells my dogs he loves them, but not me. He says how much he misses my dogs, but not me. If I send a picture of my dogs, he says how he wants to cuddle with them, but never anything about wanting to be close to me.

It's not like I'm jealous of my dogs, but why does he seem to have stronger feelings about them? I'm tempted to [00:28:00] just tell him that I like him a lot and I'm happy with him, but since he doesn't seem to feel the same way, maybe we should split up so he can find someone he feels more attracted to. This is all uncharted territory for me, and I'm tired of stressing and feeling awful about not being more attractive.

Maybe if I were, he wouldn't have an issue expressing himself, so what do I do? Make another attempt to talk to him except that he seems to want to date me despite not thinking I'm pretty or attractive or desirable. Or do I tell him we should split up since he doesn't seem to have any kind of feeling about our relationship.

Signed, taken aback, trying to bounce back and wondering if I need to backtrack in the absence of my boyfriend's feedback.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. Tough letter. Beautiful letter in so many ways. Like I said, it's absolutely incredible how far you've come, but I can hear that these feelings and ideas you have about yourself are very difficult, and I'm sure you're doing the math on how they've also informed.

The anorexia, the depression. I know healing has to [00:29:00] happen on many different levels and sometimes we make progress in one area, like with the mood or the physical health stuff, but a lot of the old stuff can linger. So I really appreciate you sharing so much with us. I know this is not easy to talk about, but your willingness to explore all this, I'm sure that's one big reason you've come such a long way.

So I kind of wanna come at this from a couple angles. Let's start with Frank. It sounds to me like Frank is really great in a lot of ways. He's supportive, he's kind, he's physically affectionate. Your family loves him. On the other hand, he's kind of a locked box. He's not very generous or loving with his words.

You feel like he treats you more like a friend and when you talk to him about it, he kind of shuts down, puts a bandaid on it, changes the subject, which first of all well done on bringing that up with him in the first place. It's an uncomfortable conversation to have. I commend you for wanting to talk to him about it, giving both of you a chance to understand that better and get some clarity.

Second, I'm sorry he responded like that. That clearly did not answer your question in a meaningful way. It sounds like he missed the opportunity to fully acknowledge [00:30:00] you, understand this problem better, and then either say you're right, we aren't on the same page here, or help you understand why he sends that signal when he actually does have strong feelings for you.

I don't know, Gabe, I'm getting sort of typical guy vibes from this dude. Yeah, whatever. Like I told her I liked her and I snuggled the dog and then I brought a cake. So like of course she knows I'm deeply in love with her. No, bro, she doesn't.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, so the fact that he responded that way, I think it might potentially be helpful in one big way, which is.

I'm kind of getting the sense that it's just really hard for this guy to be vulnerable. Yeah. It's good for her to know that

Jordan Harbinger: he sounds avoidant, he sounds blocked. He sounds like 80% of the men that you're gonna meet on Bumble or any app for that matter. And I'm guessing it's very hard for him to show you or tell you how he truly feels one way or the other for the same reasons that it was hard to even hang in that conversation with you when you brought it up, because it's probably very real and very exposing for him.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And for him to acknowledge how exposing this whole relationship is for her.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Back and forth. So look, I don't know what's in Frank's [00:31:00] heart. I can't tell you with a hundred percent certainty that he's head over heels for you in every single way, and he has no complaints and no reservations, and he is just shy or whatever.

I understand why you're confused about his inner world. It's hard for me to get a read on it too. However, I am not convinced that Frank thinks of you only as a friend or that he doesn't care about you because first of all. He's with you. You guys see each other four times a week. You text with each other every single day.

You guys are physically intimate, you're involved with each other. It's been four months. Do people stay with somebody they're not into for four months? Maybe it happens. He is avoidant, so maybe he's afraid to hurt you. But do people regularly stay with people they're not into for four months and hug and kiss and cuddle them and talk about how much time they wanna spend with their dogs and go to Thanksgiving together?

Probably not. I do find it a little curious that you've only slept together a few times as per the letter when you've been together for four months.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. That detail did stand out to me, but it's unclear what that's about. Is he not interested? Is [00:32:00] she not interested? Like what's going on there?

Jordan Harbinger: Right. We kind of don't know.

I know sex drives are different and personally, my hormones are through the roof. I'm 45, but this is a little unusual, right. If they're dating, they spend all this time together. If I am dating somebody and I'm seeing a woman four times a week, I'm trying to have sex like three times a week.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Look, if she's saying I don't want to have sex because I, I don't know, feel insecure or something, and he's going, okay, I understand.

That's one thing and that means that he is probably very genuinely interested in her because he's sticking around, right? If he's showing almost no interest in having sex, then maybe that paints a different picture, although it still doesn't automatically mean he isn't into her because that still means they aren't having sex and he still wants to hang out with her.

But it is an interesting data point in all of this.

Jordan Harbinger: Of course, everyone's needs and interest in sexuality are, they're different, so we can't know for sure, but despite all that, the sense I'm getting, Gabe, tell me if you agree. The sense I get is that Frank is just, he's just really bad at expressing himself in a variety of ways, and I think he finds it hard [00:33:00] to express himself verbally.

He struggles to open up. He's not being very generous or transparent about his feelings. Again, typical guy stuff.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And in that vacuum, her worst thoughts are running wild. So I do think now we need to take this from her angle.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. He doesn't tell her that he's into her, so she assumes she's unattractive. He doesn't tell her how much he cares about her.

So she assumes he doesn't love her. In fact, that she's unlovable. She's saying maybe if I were prettier, he wouldn't have a problem expressing himself. I do not think that is true. I doubt that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think one probably has very little, if anything, to do with the other, actually

Jordan Harbinger: same. I think it's very possible that he's terrified of telling her how much he likes her, how he feels, because it means opening up to her.

And it might not be that he's not into her whatsoever. It might be that he's into her too much and he doesn't feel like he can control it, that it's too much for him to know what to do with. So he is protecting himself. I used to be like that in college.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And then that's going through this very unique filter in her.

Jordan Harbinger: So our friend here has this preexisting narrative about her worthiness, her [00:34:00] attractiveness. This response from a partner would understandably lead to the worst possible thoughts.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Even the thing about the dog, she's saying he verbalizes more affection to my dogs than he does to me. Why does he seem to have stronger feelings about them?

Look, I might be wrong, but I wonder if the dogs are like a proxy for her. What he can't express to her, he expresses to the dogs about the dogs. They might be a kind of safer object for him to love because you know they're dogs.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Interesting. That makes sense. Like they won't turn to him and go, okay, you rubbed my ears and gave me a treat, but do you really love me?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, exactly. Like you walked me for an hour and cuddled with me all afternoon while we binge watched the pit, but like, do you really think I'm cute? No, that's not gonna happen. It's funny, this reminds me of something that happened many, many years ago. This was right around the time I got Drake. I was seeing a girl, wonderful girl.

We had a really nice thing, but it was not the right fit at all. And one night she was over at my place and she was in the kitchen pouring a glass of water or something. I was standing in the doorway talking to her, and I was holding Drake. [00:35:00] And I can't remember exactly what happened. I think she stubbed her toe against the fridge.

She had a little meltdown about it. She was being kind of extra and instead of going over to her and asking her if she was okay, I reflexively kissed Drake on the head.

Jordan Harbinger: Ha,

Gabriel Mizrahi: that's funny. And she got mad at me. She was like, what the hell? Like maybe come be nice to me instead of kissing your cat.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

That's the funniest fight I've ever heard that. That's actually funnier than my smoker curtain fight that

Gabriel Mizrahi: I had over Christmas. I didn't even realize I had done it until she pointed it out. But I think looking back, it's so ridiculous. But I think Drake was like the easier one for me at that time in my life to comfort in that moment.

I was the frank and Drake was the pit bull. And for reasons, you know, that were partly about me and perhaps partly about the relationship or whatever, the pet sort of mediated an experience between us. And I think that might be what's going on here.

Jordan Harbinger: That's interesting. So you make a good point. Are the dogs the excuse?

Are they the safe territory for him to express his love for her? I could see that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it's possible. Okay. This is the [00:36:00] shape of the dynamic, right? Frank, avoiding and you seeking frank withholding and then you spiraling you looking for him even more, wanting to pin him down. Let him in on your experience of things.

And Frank fleeing reassuring, changing the subject, trying to make it okay,

Jordan Harbinger: and then the cycle perpetuates itself. Not an uncommon template for partners to fall into,

Gabriel Mizrahi: and probably taps into the origins of so many of these other challenges that she's been dealing with. So I do think it's worth making another attempt to talk to him, hopefully in a new way.

One way to do that would be to say, listen, Frank, I'm really enjoying my time with you. You're great in so many ways. I love sharing the dogs with you. I love bringing you around my family. I love our hangouts. I also have to tell you, and I tried to do this before, but I want to try to be clearer this time.

I want to tell you that the way you relate to me, the way you communicate, or perhaps don't, I find it confusing a lot of the time when you don't tell me in words how you feel about me. When you aren't super forthcoming with your affection or your emotions, [00:37:00] that leaves me wondering where we stand with each other, whether we're actually on the same page.

Now, I also know that I have some self-esteem issues. So when you withhold words or affection, that tends to confirm some fears that I have about myself. And I'm not putting that all on you, but I need you to know that that's what happens on my end when you act this way. So part of me is tempted to say like, should we break up so you can find somebody else?

But another part of me wants to give us a chance to try this in a new way, to give you a chance to tell me how you really feel to understand me better. And specifically, I really wanna understand if it's hard for you to be honest with me, whether that's about how much you like me, or that you might not want to be in this relationship anymore, if that's the case.

And is there anything I can do to make that easier for you? Because this kind of communicating is making it hard for me to fully enjoy our relationship without feeling a lot of stress and sadness.

Jordan Harbinger: I like that. But you're assuming that she's willing to hear something that might be hard to hear.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I am. I'm assuming that she's there.

I mean, look, Jordan, I'm with you. I think this guy [00:38:00] is definitely into her. I get the sense that he really does like being with her, but if this is not the guy for her, which there's a possibility, or if he's been withholding something big from her, I'm assuming that she would rather know that. Now

Jordan Harbinger: I get it and yeah, I agree.

I think he is into her, but we have to acknowledge there's a version where he isn't, or their feelings are mismatched or that something else will come out of this that she's just not expecting.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But that is also ultimately for the good. The whole point is that he's not being forthcoming, which is worse, hearing something painful in the short term or going through this agony all the time when she doesn't actually know what he feels

Jordan Harbinger: now.

For sure. I just want her to be ready for that conversation. 'cause that might be tough for both of them.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally agree. But I also feel like she can look at his behavior and factor that in as well. He might not be articulating every feeling he has, but I think he is showing her how he feels and look.

You might also wanna say, the last time we talked about this, it seemed to me that you quickly reassured me. Gave me a kiss, changed the subject. I appreciate that you wanted me to feel better, but that's not actually what I want. That's not ultimately very helpful,

Jordan Harbinger: right? What I [00:39:00] want is to understand how you truly feel and to communicate with each other better.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. And then see how he responds in an appropriate way. Don't let him off the hook too easily.

Jordan Harbinger: Right? If he reassures you and kisses your forehead and tries to hit play on the pit or whatever, you can say Thank you. I know you wanna be nice, but that's not really what I'm looking for.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And if he changes the subject, you can say, sorry, I know this isn't an easy conversation, but I'd really appreciate it if we can stick with what we're talking about

Jordan Harbinger: and look, you might not get the outcome you're hoping for.

Or actually, let me back up. Maybe it would be good to define what a good outcome for you would even be. To Gabe's point, I think a good outcome is any outcome that is honest, any outcome that leads to you guys being more open and trusting with each other.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally agree by that rubric. It's kind of hard to fail.

Jordan Harbinger: My hope is that he opens up to her about why it's so hard for him to be affectionate and validating and vulnerable with her. And then they keep working on it. He tries to be more generous. She learns to take that in and trust it. They just get better at communicating. It's also possible that he says some version of, of course, I'm [00:40:00] really into you.

I just don't know how to express that. I don't wanna work on it at all.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. In which case, I might say, you have to decide if you can live with that and maybe start to look at his behavior rather than his words to get a good read on how he truly feels about you. Like the fact that he wants to see you four times a week and text you every day.

I think that's kind of says a lot,

Jordan Harbinger: right? But it's also possible that nothing changes. In which case you're really gonna have to decide if this is a deal breaker. I can't tell you if it is for sure. That's up to you to decide.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But it's interesting because if it is a deal breaker, I wonder, is it a deal breaker because he's withholding or is it a deal breaker because he doesn't want to work on things, doesn't wanna listen to her, and wanna be in this process with her.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. There's something deeper here than just how often he says, you're hot. I like you. I value you. That's what they really need to talk about. And by the way, four months into a relationship, this is kind of when it happens. So you're right on schedule.

Gabriel Mizrahi: All that said, though, whether Frank changes or not, I do think this is an opportunity for you to notice the story, that you have these painful thoughts that come up when you don't have all the information you want.[00:41:00]

Figure out where exactly they came from, and learn to take better care of yourself because they obviously didn't originate with Frank. I'm not letting him off the hook for being avoidant and withholding. That's really challenging. But I think being with a person who is that way is putting you in touch with more of you, which is what all relationships do, and the gift of this painful situation might be the opportunity to notice what happens when you're in a relationship.

The mirror that another person holds up to us even when they're distant, even in their absence, and simultaneously work on that.

Jordan Harbinger: Totally agree, which is a great thing to do in therapy. I'm not sure if you're there. It sounds like you have a psychiatrist, but you're working for a company in the mental health space and they have great benefits.

So if you're not, now might be the time to start. You've been through a lot in the last couple years and the latest stuff with Frank. It's just such valuable stuff to explore with a professional. You're doing great. Keep up the amazing work and we're rooting for you. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com.

Please keep your emails concise. Try to [00:42:00] use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're trying to repair your relationship with your challenging family. Your close friend is spiraling after discovering her husband had an affair with a woman who probably poisoned her beloved dog.

Or you need to call out a creepy peer in your professional group who's thrown you for a loop without causing a scene, whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, wee bit wiser.

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Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm an investigative video journalist with 15 years in media, including solo regional Emmy nomination.

I sought out a data analytics professional certificate to pivot to data journalism and secure a remote role that better accommodated my life as a new military spouse, [00:43:00] which proved essential as we made four cross country moves in seven years.

Jordan Harbinger: Geez, that's a lot of change. Yeah. Super intense. Congrats on the Emmy nominations.

That's impressive.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I also live with severe and aggressive, deeply infiltrating endometriosis, making symptom management a constant challenge. I've had two surgeries with specialists and they had to remove multiple damaged organs.

Jordan Harbinger: Man, I'm so sorry. I've read about how painful endometriosis is, what a thing to deal with.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Despite my illness, my current work is high value. In the two years I've been with the company, I successfully advocated for a raise in promotion to elevate the company's exposure through video. Working from home, I've rarely missed work and haven't exceeded my company's standard. Sick leave. I was told that a second raise slash promotion would come if I could produce metrics, proving video's value.

I grew our sleepy and lackluster YouTube channel, getting it monetized to open a new revenue stream

Jordan Harbinger: again. Amazing. You sound like a super valuable employee.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Recently, I've been recovering from a severe e [00:44:00] coli infection, which because of my endometriosis, put me at high risk for complications that would cause further internal adhesions and organ damage.

I was placed on a doctor mandated six hour daily work restriction. After the recovery and the paperwork was approved and processed by hr, the restriction was meant to gimme more time to rest, recover, and set boundaries for the increasingly common requests that I get from other reporters. During that time, a major onsite conference, basically my company's Super Bowl, was set to take place.

I communicated to my bosses weeks before that I was not at a hundred percent. But didn't wanna miss the event because it offered so many video opportunities that would continue to drive our growth. I expressed that I would just take breaks and pace myself. The day before the conference, the senior manager who was supposed to lead our coverage announced that she wouldn't be attending as she had strep throat, leaving a mess of unmanaged and unfinished planning.

No one communicated my limited hours to the remaining team or delegated the manager's duties. Then one of the only two [00:45:00] remaining employees on the trip announced he had a cold and wouldn't be able to do as much. I realized despite my efforts to formally document my situation, I was now the assumed person to take over due to my coworker's acute illnesses that I have no reason to believe were officially recognized by a doctor.

When I asked the senior manager about navigating the schedule and duties with my restricted hours, she told me to quote unquote, nudge the coworker and quote, just do what you can, unquote, the stress of covering for a no-show manager, dealing with the haphazard planning and being personally criticized by the CEO.

Who felt that I didn't do a good enough job establishing our presence at the event. As it wasn't up to par with our quote unquote big dog energy caused a massive flare in my pain and symptoms. This was especially difficult as it was my first time meeting the CEO in person, and I had hoped to impress her to increase the chances of getting that second promotion.

I messaged my department head and received a vague two sentence apology with no [00:46:00] actionable items. Two hours later, when the CEO and a VP approached me with requests, I asked if they were aware that I was on medically reduced hours. They said they had no idea and appeared genuinely surprised and concerned.

To their credit, high level leaders did step in to help me with some basic tasks. I also received an apology email from the Chief people Officer confirming the communication failure and enforcing the six hour stop.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. That's good. I, I'm sorry it was a cluster, but it sounds like they finally understood the severity of the situation and did the right thing.

It really sounds like poor management and communication, plain and simple,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but the CEO's comments still felt patronizing, such as, remember you have no more hours. We have to get you right to your hotel room. I worked well past six hours with the travel set up and event logistics on the first day of the conference.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh, interesting. Hard to tell if there really was subtext to that

Gabriel Mizrahi: patronizing. Let's come back to that. Do I have any legal standing to pursue repercussions from this blatant failure to accommodate this [00:47:00] illness? Is it stupid to quit this salary job right now to become a full-time independent investigative data journalist?

Especially given that Gen AI is slashing editorial budgets signed, looking for remedies after my company, rather messily failed to accommodate this credibly, even though I notified the deputies on a day that incredibly. Was a recipe for handling this unsuccessfully,

Jordan Harbinger: man, what a tough situation. I'm very sorry.

You've struggled with all this health stuff. That is awful. The fact that you're performing at this level while also dealing with all of these challenges is incredible. You sound like a super driven person. Very dedicated, very tenacious, and I really admire that. And I'm sorry to hear that things went sideways at this big event.

That sucks, especially because it wasn't really your fault and then you got blamed for it. We wanted to run this by an expert, so we reached out to Joanna Tate, friend of the show and HR professional for over 20 years, and the first thing Joanna said was that in her opinion, overall corporate society in the US is not very skilled at handling disability and recuperation time.

In her view, [00:48:00] we're a nonstop productivity culture. Go, go, go to the point that when a team member becomes unable to assume full duty, people often just don't know how to accommodate that. Not just like from an HR policy perspective, but like how do we make sense of this? How do we empathize with somebody who's having health stuff and allow for them to operate at less than a hundred percent?

Joanna was very clear in her view. Your reduction in work hours should have been communicated to the entire group way before the event in an appropriate way. Joanna pointed out that if an NFL team wants to win a Super Bowl, the head coach doesn't go. Yeah. All right. Let's put the guy with the torn ACL and the diminished lung capacity on the starting lineup.

Somebody in the HR department or your manager should have communicated with the entire team that you would be at a reduced capacity. Duh. And the senior manager should have had a backup plan in place. It should have been something like Maxine's gonna be working six hours each day and no more if we need more work.

Jim and Nadine, you guys step in and there should have been a backup plan for Jim and Nadine too. You might have also needed a wingman through some of this. That said, Joanna said that your plan, attending the [00:49:00] event to jump on those good opportunities and taking breaks, pacing yourself, that was a good plan, but only if all of the other pieces of the plan did not fall apart if all the other team members didn't have any last minute crises.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dude, this is so frustrating.

Jordan Harbinger: It's so frustrating, especially since you documented all of this the right way and your doctor's literally like, yeah, she is temporarily disabled red parking pass hanging from the mirror. Whereas fricking Lorraine and Steve woke up on the morning of the Super Bowl and they're like, sorry, I have a cold.

Oh no. Which is extra uncool given they probably knew about your situation and how high the stakes were. I'm just imagining this dude being like, oh yeah, you have, what is it called? Deeply infiltrating endometriosis, and he is like, I have a sore throat, and she has a runny nose. So we're all at diminished capacity here.

Maxine, sorry to say. We're all gonna have to pick up the slack. It's just

Gabriel Mizrahi: like, give me a break, dude. Which does make me wonder about the culture of this place, but that's a whole other issue.

Jordan Harbinger: Same. And also, does our friend here care more about this job and [00:50:00] the event than everyone else does? Not a bad quality by any means, but it can create issues when everybody else is obviously just phoning it in.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a good point. Are they coasting because she cares so much and she's known for picking up the slack,

Jordan Harbinger: who knows? But the fact that the person with literal acute endometriosis, organ damage, and severe e coli infection. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: She's also an overachiever even when it comes to illnesses. Just wanna point that out.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. Yeah. Seriously, that employee was like, yeah, I'm still gonna be there. I just can't work as many hours and I need some support because otherwise I'm gonna go to the hospital and I have a note from a doctor, and then, yeah, Steve's got a runny nose and doesn't wanna wear a mask. You know? Look, I'm not saying they're necessarily wrong to have stayed home.

It's just interesting that they're taking a sick day on one of the biggest days of the year, and she's still going into battle.

Gabriel Mizrahi: These are the people who tend to get promotions. I mean, this woman is dedicated, but she might also not want to be seen as the sick one.

Jordan Harbinger: There are upsides and downsides to that.

Anyway, Joanna's feeling was the fact that they had unmanaged pieces of the plan the day [00:51:00] before the event, led her to believe that maybe the company did not have the right leader in place, but you also agreed to participate in a situation where you might not have been able to jump in as needed if anything fell through and it did fall through.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. So that might be the main takeaway here, how wanting to be a big dog and step in without the proper plans and protections in place. That came from a good place, but it also seems to have exposed you to the risk of criticism, by the way, big Dog. Such an annoying phrase. Thank you. I can't deal with it.

Yes,

Jordan Harbinger: as you can tell, my eyes rolled so far. I had to rip my desk to avoid falling over. Companies love this stuff. Rockstar, big dog Alpha. If you guys are such big dogs, if you're trying to clinch your journalism, super Bowl ring or whatever, maybe Steve shouldn't be sleeping off his sinus infection at the Ramada just saying.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Joanna wanted to be clear. She's not blaming you. She's just saying this was a high risk move. If you're aiming to maintain a very strong perception of your work, let's talk about the CEO's comments, the ones that felt patronizing. Like I said, [00:52:00] I'm not a hundred percent sure that's what she intended. The sense I get is that the CEO was genuinely concerned both about her and about making sure that the company was doing right by this doctor Validated disability.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, same. It's also a legal liability, so the CEO's also a human being. She's not gonna be like, oh, you're deeply infiltrating endometriosis again. Steve had a sore throat this morning, so we're all playing with a arm tied behind our back.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Look, we weren't there. She might've said, now remember, we have to get Maxine back to her hotel because she just can't work very hard right now.

Jordan Harbinger: There might've been a look in her eye or whatever,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but my gut is telling me that our friend heard it that way, which someone who holds herself to very high standards, who doesn't wanna be seen as weak or difficult. Who, as she pointed out, worked well past the six hours she was supposed to be capped at to handle all the work on the first day.

A person like that, I think might be particularly primed to hear an innocent comment like that in a certain way.

Jordan Harbinger: I think that's exactly what happened, which is interesting for her to notice because this accommodation is also exactly what she wanted. Maybe not from the CEO herself, [00:53:00] but from her managers.

But then when it comes, it feels disempowering, condescending, maybe embarrassing. And I gotta think at least some of that is being informed by her own feelings about her limitations right now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, the stories we start to tell when raw information goes through the prism of our beliefs, our feelings, our fears, like it's just like the previous question, right?

It's an interesting theme today. Anyway, Joanna agreed. She said it sounded like the CEO was speaking out of genuine concern for you, but again, none of us were there, so we didn't hear the tone.

Jordan Harbinger: So to answer your question, only a lawyer can help you decide if you have a case here. But Joanna wanted to give you a couple things to think about.

First. Given what we just talked about, how your company definitely messed up, but you also put yourself in a situation where you took a hit. That might complicate the picture a little bit. What Joanna's encouraging you to see in the spirit of empowering you and helping you manage stuff like this better in the future is that there were a couple things you could have done to avoid this.

Communicating more explicitly with all the right parties, helping your team come up with a solid plan, maybe a backup plan for that plan, whatever else they needed. [00:54:00] So maybe it's not as simple as, well, my company, they were dicks and I'm gonna sue them. Her other thought for you was, if you decide to talk with a lawyer, you don't wanna leave your position just yet.

Your goal should be to understand what your protections and options might be here, and to find out if you have any legal standing on potential failure to accommodate your disability. Gabriel, I wasn't there. You weren't there. What is the lawsuit about?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Unclear to me.

Jordan Harbinger: I really hate to cheapen this 'cause she does have a terrible disease and they did fail to accommodate it in that way, but.

The damages are what I always think about in a lawsuit, and it's kinda like the CEO said something that indicated that maybe it was your fault in her opinion, but that's kind of the worst thing that happened. So it's not like they fired you because you blew it and it was actually somebody else's fault and they failed to accommodate your disability

Gabriel Mizrahi: or retaliated against her for taking sick leave or something.

Jordan Harbinger: Are you right to be angry at people in your company? Yeah, miffed for sure. But lawsuit is like nuclear option.

Gabriel Mizrahi: This is more [00:55:00] about a failure to do something because they dropped the ball as opposed to something malicious.

Jordan Harbinger: That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So I'm not saying don't talk to a lawyer or anything like that, but

Gabriel Mizrahi: why go there?

Jordan Harbinger: Are you angry enough to sue? Were you damaged enough to sue and can you prove that you were damaged enough? That's always the question. So if they said you're not getting the promotion because you blew it. Yeah, you should sue them for that if they fired you because the conference didn't go well, yeah, you should sue them for that or threatened to anyway and take a settlement.

Steve got a runny nose. Nadine didn't show up 'cause she got strep and the plan wasn't in place and so you had to pick up extra slack and couldn't and things didn't go well and everybody's moved on from that except for you. Now, I don't know if you should sue anybody for something like that, but again, maybe I'm missing something.

So I'll just say, document what happened surrounding the event. Then decide if you want to try to clean things up at your current company first, establishing better lines of communication, clarifying the delegation of duties, all that before you quit or [00:56:00] pursue a case. And I concur, man. I wouldn't quit to become a full-time independent journalist.

Certainly not because of this. Now, if you wanna strike out on your own for other good reasons, that's a different story. But as you pointed out, there are lots of pressures in your field right now. Gen AI being just one of them, and it sounds to me like you've worked really hard to rise up at this place.

You might even be up for another promotion soon. Plus you have this health stuff to get through, and I imagine having a salaried position with healthcare has gotta be kind of a major gift right now. So bottom line. Try not to only look at this through the lens of whose fault is it? Do I sue? Do I leave and try to take the lens of what did this situation teach me?

How can I use that to do even better work and avoid icebergs in the future? Even if you quit, even if you sue, that kind of thinking is still gonna do wonders for you. And most importantly, please keep taking care of yourself. You're dealing with some very serious health stuff and your ambition, your passion, your dedication, I love them, but they can't come at the expense of your body and mind.

Maybe learning how to put better plans in place for these events. Maybe that'll also [00:57:00] make it easier to accept those accommodations because you'll still be knocking it out of the park or taking it into the end zone, or whatever metaphor you alpha big dog rock stars like to use over there in corporate land.

Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know what's way more fun than a severe e coli infection ravaging your body. Taking advantage of the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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Jordan Harbinger: If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smarts and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.

All of the deals and discounts you hear on the show are searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. You're also welcome to email us for any codes. We're happy to surface those things for you because it is that important that you support those who support the show, and it's time for the recommendation of the week.

I guess I have to do it now, right? I am addicted to lip filler,

Gabriel Mizrahi: so I'm a big fan of writing thank you notes by hand. I find that they mean a lot to people, especially when you put some thought into it, and they're also just really fun to write. But what takes them to another level is writing them on custom stationary.

So. My recommendation of the week is just that investing in custom stationary with your name on it. Not a novel idea. I know, but [01:00:00] for years I put off ordering some because I thought it was just like a huge project, and I'd have to go to some stationary store and sit with somebody for 45 minutes and touch 30 different types of card stock and agonize over the nightmare and such a nightmare.

I'd rather

Jordan Harbinger: go to Bed Bath and Beyond, and many of you know

Gabriel Mizrahi: how I'd feel. Stab your eyes out with an eggbeater. Exactly, yeah. And just agonize over the font and it would be super expensive and blah, blah, blah. But there are a ton of design sites now where you can choose from a template or you create your own.

It's just so insanely easy. It's also very reasonably priced, and bam, a week later, you have 200 customized cards and envelopes ready to go. I went with a very simple design, just like a black box around the border of a thank you card sized. A stationary pack? That could be anything. Depends how thankful you

Jordan Harbinger: are.

It could be big, could be small.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I got different sizes depending on how much I actually like the person. Right. And name at the top black border. They look great. People constantly comment on them. They're like, oh, nice stationary with your name on it. And also only 75 or maybe a hundred dollars or something for the pack.

So [01:01:00] great investment. I used a website called zazzle zazzle.com, but there are tons of options out there. I don't know why I just started laughing 'cause it's a grown person saying zazzle.com.

Jordan Harbinger: I was gonna do something, but then I'm like, oh, I'm just interrupting again. But yeah. Oh, that's nice. zazzle.com. It sounds like a place that sells things that stick on to your vagina.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It sounds like a knockoff version of Etsy where you bedazzle your, your cat sweater, which probably they also sell those things too.

Jordan Harbinger: It would be the vulva by the way. I know people are like the vagina is inside. I know

Gabriel Mizrahi: people

Jordan Harbinger: love pointing that out. They love doing that. Yes. All. Also, I had to say Vva. I don't know why that, you know what, that's fine.

It's a body part. Take it away. Gabriel.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You are on one today. Dude. I'm just picturing Patrick Bateman sliding his business card across the table and be like, field, that's bone from zazzle.com.

Jordan Harbinger: That sounds pretty good.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, I always pack a few of these when I'm traveling 'cause you never know when you're gonna wanna write someone a card.

Like maybe somebody invites you to a dinner party or something, or you wanna write something to [01:02:00] the person you're traveling with. That's a nice one. Whatever it is. And just having some in your bag inspires you to write something meaningful when you would otherwise let it go, because. You'd have to run to CVS and buy a card.

It's just too much work. So custom stationary, one of those small details that really makes a big impact.

Jordan Harbinger: Also, in case y'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you want to help me make fun of Gabriel's stationary habits, or you want to share your uh, zazzle.com templates with each other, if there's an episode you really like, an episode you really didn't like, you wanna share additional thoughts, learn more from other people in the show, fam, come join us on the subreddit.

I'm still there, even though I got banned from Reddit for calling someone a Muppet. I'm still there lurking. I just can't reply to things, which is fine. I still read everything and I can tell the team to reply to things if necessary, you can find us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Ironically, sons Jordan Harbinger.

All right, what's

Gabriel Mizrahi: next? Before we wrap up here, a few weeks back, we took a letter from a software engineer who had been laid off as a federal worker and was struggling to land a new job. She said she had applied to 600 positions and only [01:03:00] gotten a handful of interviews. That was not the only thing or even the main thing she was writing in about, but it was one of the big challenges that she was dealing with.

And one of our listeners had a very passionate take about this detail in her letter, so we wanted to share it with you. So he writes, firing up those fingers. I am so overhearing people, especially software engineers like me, whining about how they couldn't find a job after 600 applications. It's a disservice to these people to accept the assertion at face value.

Mashing the LinkedIn quick apply buttons 600 times and adding those companies to a list is the only realistic way I can imagine reaching such big numbers. When talking to people about finding a software job, I always advise that a LinkedIn quick apply or anything analogous to it counts as negative 0.25 x of a job application.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. That is such a software engineer way to say that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: For the morale cost of Ying, your hopes, and to avoid, you're better off doing nothing. When I hear [01:04:00] 600 applications sent, I interpret it as negative 150 applications sent the right way. You gotta dig yourself out of a spiritual hole just to be at zero if you catch someone's attention.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so pause. This is a hot take, but a very powerful one. What he's saying is those kinds of low friction job applications where you essentially just hit apply now and you don't have to do anything else, in addition to having a very low success rate, it actually puts you in the emotional red because it demoralizes you and it subtracts from your self-esteem and your will to keep on going.

I actually understand what this guy's saying, even though it's funny the way he explains it. 'cause I'm like, God, engineer brains are totally different,

Gabriel Mizrahi: right? Because you think I've applied to hundreds of places and nobody wants me.

Jordan Harbinger: What he's saying is you did that to yourself. Meanwhile, those jobs, they're not even reading your application.

I'm sure

Gabriel Mizrahi: that's right.

Jordan Harbinger: So I think he's a hundred percent right about this. I'm sure some people get interviews this way. Of course, it's possible the button wouldn't exist otherwise, so maybe there's some outside chance it could work in your [01:05:00] favor. Yeah, better than nothing. But if you're going to use that number to feed a narrative that you're undesirable as a candidate, or the market just sucks, then he has a point.

It could actually hurt more than help.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The strategy for getting a high paying job is nothing new. Find a contact who knows you by name. Build a reputation over time where they will vouch for you, confirm there's an actual opening aligned with what you bring to the table, and let the inside contact tell you how to proceed.

As someone who now hires software engineers myself, I'm not impressed with the brute force approaches or a lot of toil on the part of a job candidate if those were ever virtues to begin with. Now they're the virtues of ai. It was only ever an aberration slash frothy job market that turned software into something you could game algorithmically by taking an insanely large number of shots at it.

Now it's back to the traditional questions of, can I trust this person and can this person do the job we need them to do? Signed feeling compelled to [01:06:00] butt in on the topic of people who smash that button.

Jordan Harbinger: So I'm gonna count this as my Six Minute Networking plug for the week. I won't mention it again.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone's still to hear that, but honestly, I can't think of a better argument for relationship building than this. It was beautifully put, a little harsh. I like it. That's my style. But I think the harshness comes from a place of genuine passion for helping good people find the right jobs.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree. I think the AI point is absolutely spot on too. Ironically, the more that tech evolves, the more it seems that these more primitive systems trust, credibility, connection, empathy, like identifying with a candidate, wanting them to succeed. The more those things matter.

Jordan Harbinger: Such a great point. And I think that's true across the board actually, not just in job hunting.

I think the digital world has become so synthetic and self-interested and soulless that when people encounter a real human being, it means more than it did even a few years ago. So hopefully this helps some folks avoid a lot of wasted effort. I think sometimes people just, they think building relationships to get somewhere, it's inefficient, it's too much work, but it's [01:07:00] actually the opposite.

I think you'll get much further having, I dunno, eight or 10 solid relationships than you would sending 1200 applications to people who have no idea who you are. Could it work? Sure. Are you mostly banking on luck? Definitely. And are most of these applications gonna fail also? Yes. So it's, which one's really more inefficient?

It's interesting 'cause we hear from so many people who talk about applying for literally hundreds of jobs. And I always wonder like, how are you doing that? Are you really firing off 450 cover letters uniquely tailored to each position? Because. That is hundreds of hours on chat, GPT, even if you're using AI to help you.

Or are you just smashing the apply button somewhere? And also, is the market really that bad or are you sending your resume off into the ether because you just are not investing in your relationships? So I don't have a ton more to add here. I don't wanna shame people, by the way, who can't find a job.

That's not my intention here, right? We just wanted to feature this letter in case it helps anybody who is looking for a job right now or who might be looking in the future. [01:08:00] And I love when other people make this point for me so I don't have to insist on relationship stuff all the time. And I can go see a person who's hiring people agrees with me.

So if you don't believe me. Believe him and believe her that this is important stuff. Okay, so thank you for sharing this my friend, and good on you for valuing your relationships as much as you expect everyone else to value their relationships. I'm sure that makes you a great boss as well as a smart hiring manager.

Go back and check out the episode with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, if you haven't done so yet, show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, so consult a professional before implementing anything you hear on the show.

Ditto, Joanna Tate. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share [01:09:00] the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show. So you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.

What if we're not just close to building matrix level simulations? We may already be inside one. You're about to hear a preview of our episode with Rizwan Virk on clues we're living in a rendered world.

JHS Trailer: The simulation hypothesis is basically the idea that what we think of is the physical world. You know, like this table, this chair, that all the physical reality is actually part of a virtual world.

The simulation hypothesis, the subtitle is an MIT Computer scientist shows why ai, quantum physics and eastern mystics agree. We're in a video game. There have been a number of physicists who aren't looking at the world as information now, and so there's a whole branch of physics called digital physics.

And instead of looking at things like conservation of energy and conservation of momentum, you're looking at conservation of information. Does information get created or get destroyed? And some have even said that the world itself is [01:10:00] basically a quantum computer, if you think about it. And so that would be whatever computational substrate is being used to run the simulation would have to be a lot more advanced than what we think of as computers today.

I use the metaphor of video games that the world is the type of massively multiplayer online video game. 'cause that's sort of my background was in building video games in Silicon Valley. Now there's a lot of different flavors of simulation theory when you kind of delve deep into it. And probably the most popular expression of that in the media has been the film, the Matrix.

'cause you know, Neo thought he was in a real physical world, but turns out he was actually in a virtual world. But now AI is moving so fast that I think we'll get to that point much more quickly, and certainly within the next 50 years, a hundred years at the.

Jordan Harbinger: For the full conversation that will make you question every assumption you've ever held.

Check out episode 1239 of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Rizwan [01:11:00] Virk.