1306: Bipolar Confession Could End Soldier’s Pension | Feedback Friday

1306: Bipolar Confession Could End Soldier's Pension | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the chrysalis helping me turn these larvae of chaos and confusion into butterflies of insight and wisdom, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Ah, whimsical today. Like that.

Jordan Harbinger: You can tell by my voice I'm in a whimsical mood.

Yeah, I know that sounded like a description of someone's lower back tattoo, but you know, I get a lot of emails about listeners spreading their wings this week. I don't know. Made me kind of happy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dude, our show fam really do be metamorphosing. Am I right?

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. Liquefying into imaginal discs and reconstitute. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, Emmy nominated comedians, tech luminaries, music moguls, gold smugglers. This week we had Johnathan Walton, author of Anatomy of a Con Artist, [00:01:00] the 14 Red Flags to Spot Scammers, Grifters and Thieves.

Johnathan got scammed by a really close friend, went nuclear on her, put her in jail, and reverse engineered all the red flags he had missed along the way. Now he's sharing that wisdom with everyone else. We also did a Skeptical Sunday last Sunday on remote viewing some psychic ish. On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and apparently compare ourselves to miracles of nature.

Obviously you're welcome. Got a full dooze cruise today. Let's get right into it. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I work in the US military and I'm only a few years from retirement. At 39 years old, I didn't come from money and frankly, I don't enjoy being in the military.

I've stuck it out so I could have some level of financial security when I finally make it to the quote unquote real world. Recently, however, I was diagnosed with bipolar two.

Jordan Harbinger: So Gabe, for anyone who doesn't know, want to explain bipolar one versus bipolar two?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. So basically, bipolar one is defined by at least [00:02:00] one episode of mania, which is a severe period of elevated mood or irritable mood that can cause major impairment, hospitalization, even psychosis.

Bipolar two involves what's called hypomania. That's a milder form of elevated mood, and that lasts at least four days and does not cause severe impairment. So diagnosis for bipolar two requires at least one hypomanic episode and at least one major depressive episode.

Jordan Harbinger: So people with bipolar two have to experience major depressive episodes.

But in bipolar one, it's not required.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Not required for diagnosis, but depressions are still very common for people with bipolar one.

Jordan Harbinger: So hypomania is a milder and shorter form of mania. And mania is more extreme. Creates more problems.

Gabriel Mizrahi: More chaotic. More destabilizing. Exactly. So he goes on. I hit a mental breaking point this year.

I've tried therapy before, different therapists and full effort, and nothing seemed to work. It started to feel like whatever was wrong with me wasn't going to be fixed by insight alone. [00:03:00] I didn't want medication to be the answer, but I was running out of options. In a past depressive episode, I took a shotgun into the woods, dug a grave and lay in it.

The only thing that stopped me was thinking about traumatizing whoever might find me. I went home and started thinking about a cleaner method. Then a few days later, it was like a switch flipped. I felt completely fine. I couldn't understand how I had been that low. It was like waking up from a dream and wondering what the hell that was all about.

I didn't know at the time that I was dealing with bipolar disorder. During a more recent crash, I managed to order sodium pentobarbital online, a euthanasia drug. I got my affairs in order and waited for it to arrive, but by the time it did, I was already back in a hypomanic phase. I was suddenly outgoing, euphoric, and no longer suicidal.

Every time this happens, I assumed this was supposed to be the default setting. I threw the package away wondering why I had even ordered it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:00] Geez. Thank God they don't sell that stuff on Amazon Prime, huh?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Good thing UPS ground really drags ass on dark web purchases, huh? Yeah. Is there a Silk Road Prime?

Let's hope not.

Jordan Harbinger: What's interesting to me is he was going to kill himself, dug a grave late in it, had a shotgun, and was like, someone else is really going to suffer as a result of this. Let me find a better way to do this. Like, that's admirable somehow, right? Like you just, this is the darkest moment of your life, possibly the end of your life, and you're just thinking like, oh, someone's going to find this and it's going to make for a bad week.

I'm just, I don't want to do this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is actually a remarkable quality in him that he

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Can empathize with this future person who technically speaking, not his problem at that point, right? Yes. Yes,

Jordan Harbinger: exactly.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But doesn't want to upset them. Yeah, totally. So he goes on, I eventually leveled out and was exhausted.

I reached out to a nonprofit that provides anonymous psychiatric care for people in my line of work. After several sessions, the psychologist diagnosed me with bipolar two and strongly recommended medication. Here's the problem. In my job, certain [00:05:00] psychiatric diagnoses or medications can trigger medical review, affect security clearance and deployability, and lead to separation from service.

In other words, getting kicked out of the military, I cautiously brought a watered down version of this to the psychologists at work. I haven't disclosed the suicidal ideation, the grave or the drug purchase. They've been open to discussing treatment, but without the full picture, I am not sure they'll authorize what I probably need.

I feel stuck between two risks, disclose everything, potentially trigger career consequences, and possibly lose the retirement I have sacrificed my entire adult life for, or withhold the worst of it, protect my career, but risk not getting adequate treatment and maybe not surviving the next crash. I've been previously diagnosed with OCD without issue, but this feels far more extreme.

I'm exhausted. I need to make it a few more years. I don't know how I'll recover financially or professionally if I lose everything. I've worked [00:06:00] hard, but I also know white knuckling this without proper treatment isn't working. How do I approach disclosure inside a system where mental health treatment could have the ultimate career consequence?

How do I get what I need to stay alive without blowing up the only stability I've built? Signed a guy in uniform, caught in this firestorm.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah, man, this is a very intense story. First of all, I'm so very sorry that you've been struggling with this disorder, two disorders, bipolar disorder, and OCD. That's a lot to contend with.

Plus struggling with the suicidal thoughts and plans and where to get help with all this. I can hear how much pain you're in and I can hear what a number this mood stuff has done on you. And it just, it sucks that people in the military don't know where to turn to treat some of this stuff without experiencing blow.

That breaks my heart, honestly, and it seems extra hard. I'm also sorry that you don't love the military and you just want to get out. I don't, I don't think you're alone in that. I think a lot of people share that view, but that must be exhausting and isolating. I imagine The pension has been one huge motivation to stay alive.

I [00:07:00] also hear from your letter that you're needing more than money to motivate you and you deserve that. But listen, the fact that you stayed alive, that you have some big things to live for, including life on the other side of the military. That's incredible. I'm also really glad you wrote in because we'd love to help and we'd love to see you get better.

So we wanted to get an expert's opinion on all this. So we reached out to a licensed marriage and family therapist in California who currently works on a military base, and the first thing our expert said was, your concerns about career consequences are incredibly valid. She confirmed that the military system can absolutely impact things like command notification being put on limited duty security clearance, deployability, potentially a medical board.

So she completely understood why someone nearing retirement would feel terrified about potentially jeopardizing the benefits they've worked their entire adult life to earn. But, and she was very direct with us about this, she said that the suicidal risk you're describing, it's simply too high. She hears you that your goal is to make it through the next three years, secure the stability You've sacrificed so much for, deeply understandable, of course, but as she pointed [00:08:00] out, if you die before then, which you've come dangerously close to multiple times, which you seem to think is quite possible, then none of the benefits are really going to matter.

And she's speaking to a few parts of your letter, the consideration of multiple suicide methods, the obtaining of means, the self aborted attempts, the sense that your mood states are completely outside of your control. All of these, she said, are major warning signs. She said that what you're describing, it's very consistent with untreated bipolar two disorder.

In the depressive episodes in bipolar illness. They can carry serious suicide risk when not medically managed to quote her here. If this person were my client, every alarm bell I have as a clinician would be going off. So our expert wanted to share something specific with you. She wanted you to hear this very clearly.

You're right about one thing. You've worked far too hard in your life and you are far too valuable to keep going down the path that you've been heading. Powerful words, I gotta say, I wholeheartedly second those words that said how this plays out if you ask for help. Our experts said that that could [00:09:00] look a few different ways.

We don't know your branch of service, your command climate. But in her experience working around military populations, the responses to a service member asking for help, they vary widely. She's seen commands provide genuine support and prioritize rehabilitation. She's also seen situations move quickly toward a medical board.

But again, in her view, the greatest risk in your letter isn't career disruption. It's that you might actually end your life. So in her view, all of our views really safety and stabilization of your mood, that just has to be the priority.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, I fully agree. But look, let's just appreciate this bind that he's in because the stakes are high and it's very easy for us to sit here and say, well, your life is more important than potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe millions, I don't know, over a lifetime or 40, 50 years that you'll receive for the rest of your life.

I'm sure he's going, okay. Yeah, sure. But if I save my life by getting treatment and then get separated from service, how am I going to provide for that life?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I know.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So. It's a really [00:10:00] intense calculation to make no two ways around it. That said, we also ran your story by Colonel Christian, Magne pastor and army chaplain, and friend of the show, just to see if there might be another angle here.

And Christian came to the exact same conclusion that our first expert did disclose everything, get the help, risk being separated from the military. It is not worth living with untreated bipolar disorder, which could quite possibly kill you. But also Christian had some insight into what kind of money is actually at stake here.

And I thought this was really interesting. He said, yes, opening up about this does risk being kicked out, but how much money is actually on the line is actually kind of an interesting calculation. Now we don't know your rank, we don't know which retirement system you opted for. There are a variety of factors that go into the pension calculation, but since you're retiring at 39, you probably enlisted.

So we're going to just assume a couple things. Both Christian and I separately did some quick research on this, and it sounds like it'll be 50% of your current pay, which will probably come out to 30 to say [00:11:00] 40 to $50,000 a year, somewhere between say 20 $503,250 per month.

Jordan Harbinger: So that money is meaningful.

Definitely a good cushion, but it's not like. I can buy a property and kick back for the next 40 years kind of money,

Gabriel Mizrahi: and that was Christian's point. Look, we understand that you don't come from money and it is super easy for us to just write off that amount and say get better. But as Christian put it, it isn't generational wealth, right?

In all likelihood, you would still need to work. So maybe that also lowers the potential sacrifice.

Jordan Harbinger: I think it does, although it's all relative. Also, Christian told us that even in a world where you are med boarded out, which again we don't know is for sure going to happen, but if you are, there might be some disability money you'd have access to something else to consider might lower the stakes even further.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So let's talk about where to seek treatment. In the past we've talked about MLCs, military family, and life counselors. They can be a great option for military folks who need to talk, but for someone with your level of risk. Probably not appropriate,

Jordan Harbinger: and generally speaking, MLCs [00:12:00] aren't the most rigorous from what we understand.

I'm pretty sure they don't have the same standards as a licensed therapist, which could, you know, that could be less than ideal.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. We've also talked about military One source in the past that's a free support service run by the DOD that connects service members to confidential off base therapy.

Supposedly a really great resource. Our first expert said that that could have been a very good option earlier in this process when you were first, you know, noticing these shifts in your mood. But she also told us that those providers generally can't prescribe medication. So there's that, although Christian did say that one advantage to talking to these folks and possibly also the va, they might be able to explain any potential disability benefits.

The ones Jordan was just referring to if you were to be separated from service. So maybe try to get that information in advance as much as possible because then you would also know how much am I really giving up and what could I still enjoy if I did happen to leave? Our expert, though, did talk about one great resource.

She highly recommended an organization called Homebase. So Homebase is completely free for [00:13:00] eligible veterans and their families. It's run by physicians and researchers from Massachusetts General Hospital, that's one of the teaching hospitals of Harvard Medical School. Apparently, they offer an intensive two week outpatient program that provides comprehensive care, including psychiatric treatment, and our expert actually had a client attend their program near the end of his career.

She said that it was life-changing for both him and his marriage. She said the program can even cover the cost of travel to attend and people can self-refer on their website. In fact, she told us that her former client received a return call from them within 24 hours. So. Home base is apparently very skilled at responding to referrals.

Jordan Harbinger: I'm really happy to learn about this organization. It sounds fantastic now, okay. The obvious question is that attending home base would likely require you to explain a two week absence to your command, and you'd still need a plan for ongoing medication management afterwards, which our expert believes would ultimately funnel back to the military treatment facility.

But she said programs like Home Base are very experienced in helping participants [00:14:00] navigate those next steps. Maybe they have resources and advice about how to have this conversation and hopefully protect your career.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. She said at a minimum, attending a program like this could remove you from your environment and siloed thinking just long enough to see your circumstance for what it is, which is concerning, yes, and in need of transparent help, but not worth white knuckling through, or, you know, worse.

Jordan Harbinger: But if that option doesn't work out, she feels that the path that most protects your life might be the one that feels the scariest, which is going to your military treatment facility and being fully honest. To quote her one last time here, that might actually be the bravest thing he's done in his entire military career.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And on that note, she also shared an interesting story with us about a retired army major general named Greg f Martin. So apparently this guy's very well known in military circles. I had never heard of him. But basically after a very decorated career, graduated from West Point 35 years in the army, senior leadership roles rose up to the rank of major general.

He started experiencing severe mania and this mania [00:15:00] developed eventually into psychosis. It gave way to profound depression, which he said nearly led to suicide. And he was eventually removed from his leadership position and had to take medical retirement, which I can only imagine must have been devastating.

But then he sought out help and he was diagnosed with bipolar one disorder and he started medication and he went into therapy and he took better care of himself and his mood stabilized. I guess he regained a sense of perspective. And after recovering, he decided to start speaking publicly about his illness, which as you know, well my friend is very rare for someone of his rank.

So I read up on the sky a little bit and his message is basically, you know, mental illness can affect anyone. Even high functioning leaders, bipolar disorder can hide for decades before a first manic episode. And leadership environments and high stress environments can amplify it. And most importantly, bipolar disorder ultimately ended his army career.

Yes. Treatment and recovery saved his life.

Jordan Harbinger: Amazing. Great model,

Gabriel Mizrahi: amazing model. And by the way, he wrote a memoir about the experience titled Bipolar [00:16:00] General, my Forever War With Mental Illness. We're going to link to that in the show notes. It sounds like it would be a really great read for you. Right now. Our expert feels that his story is a powerful reminder that even highly successful military leaders can struggle with this disorder and that getting treatment is essential.

Jordan Harbinger: I totally agree. The fact that you sought help, that you keep surviving these cycles that you wrote us, this letter that tells me you clearly want to live as our expert. Put it to us. You're a fighter through and through, and yeah, the stakes are high, but the stakes don't get any higher than your life.

Christian also made a great point. Life on the other side of the military, if you are treated, it can be a new and exciting career in your late thirties. You can be doing something you don't hate, which, you know, sounds pretty nice, doesn't it?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think our friend here is stuck in a very rigid narrative about his situation and about his future, which it's a narrative I completely understand, given the circumstances.

And he's in survival mode and he's just trying to get through this. And it seems like these are the two options. You know, he has to choose between the money and his mental health, and his only reliable stability is going to come from the military, [00:17:00] from this pension. And I believe that that feels very true to him.

But I also wonder what other narratives will start to become possible when he stabilizes his mood, when he is not just fighting to get through the day, not hurt himself. When he starts talking to somebody and he invites in some help, some new perspectives, something tells me that is going to open up so many new possibilities that he just can't see right now.

And I think that's what our expert was referring to when she talked about some of this siloed thinking. I would really love for him to get to that point a

Jordan Harbinger: hundred percent. And if he is separated from service, which I sincerely hope doesn't happen, but it could then he'd have to consider a new narrative, his life would pivot in some way.

I don't think that's a bad outcome either, but you're right, Gabe. This is an opportunity for him to consider the third path we often talk about where the binaries fall away and something new becomes possible. My hope for you is you find the support you need, take good care of yourself, embrace these new possibilities.

We're rooting for you, bud, sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. Big thanks to our fantastic new military LMFT, and to Christian Magne for his experience and wisdom. And now [00:18:00] for some products, you don't have to buy on the dark web with Bitcoin and probably won't kill you or your wallet.

We'll be right back.

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At Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to feedback Friday. All right, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm middle aged and more than 20 years ago, my former partner and I had a son. A couple of years into our relationship, I began noticing changes. She grew distant [00:21:00] and started lying about things small at first.

Then more significant. Around that time, I was asked to travel for work on very short notice. There were only two people in my department and the other employees suddenly became ill. I went home, explained the situation, and told her I needed to be on a flight early The next morning, I left all of the contact information on the kitchen table before heading to the airport.

The trip was scheduled for seven days. The project wrapped up two days early and I paid the change fee out of pocket so I could come home sooner. When I walked into our home, I found a pair of unfamiliar underwear on the bathroom floor.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. How does that happen? Not I, not that I don't believe him. I believe him.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, I believe him too, but I, I had the same thought. Like who leaves their fruit of the looms behind?

Jordan Harbinger: That's what I'm saying. Like if I, you know how like sometimes there's this whole thing in college where like a girl would leave like an earring on the nightstand and it's like, oh, nesting, or it's deliberate.

Or you're like, yeah, or we were just wasted and she forgot one of her earrings. Or like, you know, you have an eyelash stuck to the pillow. You know, those [00:22:00] days, this is different. When I am going commando, I know it. I am not like, oh, I forgot something. Oops. Guess I left my boxer briefs. On Charlize's floor,

Gabriel Mizrahi: it seems like a very deliberate oversight on both their parts.

Jordan Harbinger: Or he came home and he missed this guy by seconds or minutes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, I had not considered this possibility.

Jordan Harbinger: Like, oh my god, my husband's home early, and dude runs out of the shower and just like, jumps his pants on and goes out the back door and then doesn't have time to around with his, uh, dirty underwear.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. The old David Duchovny in

Jordan Harbinger: California

Gabriel Mizrahi: kitchen.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly. The old David Duchovny.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. So you think he came home early? She didn't know he was coming. They heard him coming in the door. The guy bolted out the back and just

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And left the thing behind.

Jordan Harbinger: Like he was either in the shower or in the wife.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, Jesus.

Jordan Harbinger: Sorry.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. Not, sorry. That's so intense. And this guy's over there cringing being like, oh, I wish I, uh,

Jordan Harbinger: keeping it real. Look, I, I assume this letter is not, we reconciled and everything's fine.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:23:00] No, no. We're safe there.

Jordan Harbinger: All right, good. Continue.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I picked them up. Put them on and they fit. Great. No, I'm just kidding.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I was like, wait a minute.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You touched them. I've, I've been wearing them for the last 20 years. No, I picked them up, put them aside, and paid close attention to our conversations over the next few days. That's so intense, dude. Imagine just sitting there eyeing your spouse knowing that they did this and they don't know that, you know?

Jordan Harbinger: Right. Oh, man.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Not long after she began mentioning a particular male friend more frequently. Eventually, I confronted her directly and asked whether the underwear belonged to him. She admitted that they did. She then told me there was nothing I could do about it, and said that if I tried to leave, she would make my life very difficult because we shared a child.

What does that mean exactly?

Jordan Harbinger: Uh, I'm not going to let you see your kids. Maybe

Gabriel Mizrahi: like, I'm going to say all these things and get custody.

Jordan Harbinger: I don't know. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I told her I didn't deserve that treatment and left to stay with family for a few days. The next morning she filed for a restraining order. A neighbor claimed to have heard yelling the night I confronted her.

I did not dispute that there was yelling. I was [00:24:00] hurt, betrayed, and angry. There was never any physical violence despite denying any abuse. The court granted the restraining order for both her and my son.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

Gabriel Mizrahi: More than 20 years later, it remains in place. I've had zero contact with my child. I've missed birthdays, holidays, school milestones.

Essentially his entire life, not a single year has gone by that I haven't thought about him. The weight of that loss has taken a serious toll on my mental health. Financially, things have always been tight. I have a physical handicap that limits the type and amount of work I can do, but it doesn't qualify for disability benefits between ongoing financial obligations and limited earning capacity.

I haven't been able to repeatedly pursue lengthy court battles after all these years. I carry deep regret over the lost time and would give anything for the chance to rebuild even a small part of that relationship. But I don't even know where to begin. Is there any realistic path forward to clear my name, seek modification or removal [00:25:00] of the restraining order and attempt to reconnect with my now adult son signed, trying to reconnect with my lad after being painted as a cad.

Jordan Harbinger: This is one of those letters that is so sad that I, I hope it's,

Gabriel Mizrahi: he's leaving some crucial

Jordan Harbinger: detail

Gabriel Mizrahi: out or,

Jordan Harbinger: yes, he's leaving out some crucial detail like he got, you know, oh well he's a serial killer at the same time, like Right, right. Some something that Korea doesn't totally shatter. My image of the world is at least somewhat, maybe kind of fair sometimes.

Like this is just such a wildly unfair, terrible injustice. And it's not even just to him, like the kid grew up without a father because mom was like, I'm going to cheat on you and there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, how psychopathic is that? I'm very sorry. Things played out like this. Unfortunate isn't even, doesn't even cut it.

Obviously we don't know all the facts. We only have your letter to go on. It sounds like, okay, your wife cheated on you blatantly then took your son away from you and made it impossible for you to reach out. And maybe she had a reasons for that, whatever they were. I, I know there's always two sides to every story.

I'm hedging here. [00:26:00] I'm desperately hedging, but to take out a restraining order when according to you, you weren't even a genuine threat, it's just, it's disgusting. And I'm sure you carry a lot of sadness, a lot of anger, a lot of grief around your son. I'm just so sorry about all of it for both of you. As always to get a good handle on your legal options here.

We reached out to attorney in friend of the show, Corbin Payne,

and the first thing Corbin said was that he was actually a little confused by the restraining order thing I was as well. 'cause generally restraining orders are put in place for a set amount of time. Now a judge can extend a restraining order before it expires, and if your ex kept doing that, that could functionally turn it into one that's perpetual.

But usually it's not like you can just take out a restraining order against somebody for 20 years, in most cases anyway. Also, a restraining order that protects a juvenile. Corbin said that that usually expires as a matter of course when the juvenile turns 18. But again, the juvenile can then go to the court and ask that the order be extended.

So generally speaking, where a lifetime or a perpetual [00:27:00] order is put in place. Corbin said that the subject of the order you, in this case, you would've to be found to have engaged in repeated severe abuse or have been convicted of a felony or sexual assault or something like that. Now, maybe that happened and you didn't tell us.

Obviously there's nothing in your letter that suggests anything like that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Also in California, but I believe all states in the US the process to renew a restraining order typically includes serving the other party. That would be our friend here with copies of the request, the renewal request, and the hearing notice, and any temporary extension orders.

The methods of service, those can vary state by state. Some states allow alternatives if a person can't be served, like mail, email, leaving the papers at the residence, whatever it is. But that is the requirement in practice. So if the restraining order were renewed, presumably our friend here would've known about it.

Jordan Harbinger: Good point. This strikes me as odd. Maybe he knows something that we don't, but all that to say, Corbin's, not sure there is a valid restraining order in place at this point. To confirm, you'll need to call the clerk's office for the court that [00:28:00] issued the restraining order and ask them, is it active? Is it not active?

What's the deal? It might've lapsed. It might've been renewed if it has lapsed. Corbin said, you might have a right to reach out to your son. He's at least 20 years old now, an adult. You guys could theoretically begin a new relationship on your own terms if both of you so wished. That said Corbin would be cautious about reaching out to your ex for obvious reasons.

If it turns out the order has been renewed, then Corbin said, you should get the next court date for the hearing to renew. Show up and basically advocate for the order to be dropped. Corbin's general thought here is don't try to bring up everything that happened in the past. Talk about how this was over 20 years ago.

Talk about how you've worked consistently since then, how you've never been charged with anything since. Stuff like that. Basically demonstrate all the things that prove you're a stable person with a stable life and somebody who isn't going to turn around and go and hurt your ex or your son,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but your ability to challenge a restraining order that's very state specific.

So as always, Corbin would encourage you to consult with an attorney in your area, especially because of the potential consequences that come with violating a [00:29:00] court order, especially one like this. So his advice start by asking their opinion on whether the restraining order is even enforceable at this point, and then see if it's possible to challenge it under the circumstances.

He would start with a family law attorney. If you need a referral, reach out to your state or county Bar Association. As you know, that's always a great resource. He said a quick consultation like that 15 minutes, maybe 20 minutes should be very affordable.

Jordan Harbinger: And even if it doesn't result in a long detailed consultation, it could at least let you know if it's even possible to challenge an order like this before investing a ton of time or money into pursuing it

Gabriel Mizrahi: now about trying to reconnect with your son.

I feel like a letter would probably be your best bet. I would be honest. I would be vulnerable, but I would also be relatively brief. You know, maybe you tell him without going into too much detail, maybe leave out the, uh, Hanes on the floor of the bathroom at the time. Mm-hmm. But maybe you tell him a little bit about how things went down 20 years ago from your perspective, why you haven't reached out until now, in case he doesn't know, you, know, that you would appreciate the opportunity to get to know him, build a relationship if he's open to it, fill in the gaps in [00:30:00] the story.

And maybe most importantly, just say that you're eager to get to know him and hear about his experience and what the last 20 years have been like for him. And maybe say that you can begin with a brief phone call or a FaceTime and that whatever it takes, you're eager to put in the work to repair your relationship.

I think that would land well.

Jordan Harbinger: I like that. I feel like that would send all the right signals and hopefully open a door for the sun to safely walk through. Finally, as is his custom, Corbin wanted to encourage you to take care of yourself in other ways. Like we said, this is a big loss missing out on 20 years with your son.

So therapy support groups. Corbin pointed out that there are probably support groups out there for people who are estranged from a child. Definitely worth looking into. As you know, he's a big fan of talking about experiences like these to support other people going through something similar. Maybe even warn them, talking with people who might be going through it with an ex or dealing with the system in some way, helping them see that they're not alone.

Sharing what you've learned from this process, Corbin said that a lot of his clients talk about these experiences as being among the loneliest of their lives. They're often grateful to him [00:31:00] for being there for them through all of this, so you can imagine the impact this could have

Gabriel Mizrahi: just a word of caution here though.

If you do start telling your story more publicly, whatever that looks like, be thoughtful, be cautious, because if you're out there telling your story, how you were wronged, how much you love your son, Corbin said, that could actually be construed as you wanting to reach someone who's going to tell your son how much his dad misses him, and like how your ex did you dirty or whatever, and saying or implying that your ex lied about you, which directly contradicts some judge's findings at some point.

Corbin said that that could actually be considered harassing by many judges. Apparently he's seen it happen numerous times. It's a bit of a stretch, but in his experience, people are touchy about this stuff in the legal world. So just want to share that with you.

Jordan Harbinger: Corbin's last thought for you. Most people in the legal system, lawyers, judges, clerks, they're in it to ensure the system works as well as possible for the innocent and the good.

Sadly, though, that often doesn't happen. He hates it when the system fails as it seems to have done here. But that doesn't mean there aren't options and remedies to explore. So I hope we've given you a few of [00:32:00] those. Hope you and your son get a second shot. We're all rooting for you guys. Good luck, my friend.

You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise, use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier if you're raising a premature baby after losing your spouse, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall. Or a narcissistic Fairweather friend is demanding to move in with you to make his commute easier.

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Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 30-year-old [00:35:00] man, and my childhood dream was to become a police officer after college. That dream became a reality. I got on with a wonderful department and made lifelong friends with many of the people in my academy class and on work teams.

Two years later, I started dating a woman I had known for 10 years and even dated in the past. Things were going great. Her dream was to become a doctor, and I eventually moved to another state with her to support her through her medical program. We moved in together, got two cats. I graduated from the academy, received multiple awards and was very successful with the police department where we were living.

Two years after that, a friend from my previous department passed away at the age of 26. It hit me like a ton of bricks,

Jordan Harbinger: man. I'm sorry to hear that. 26. Geez. That is so young. I wonder if it was job related or what.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I realized that my career choice was not allowing me to be the person that I naturally am and want to be.

I wasn't able to see friends and family as much due to the schedules and when I was off work, I [00:36:00] was constantly scanning for threats.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. All the cops I know talk about that. It can be very draining.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So I made the choice to leave the department and went back to school for it and cybersecurity.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Big move.

I admire that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Impressive. About a week after I became a full-time student, I overheard my girlfriend talking to her friend about how she wants to be with a successful man who will financially take care of her. And if I wasn't going to do that. Then she would find someone else.

Jordan Harbinger: That's a brutal thing to overhear from a partner.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Very much the emotional equivalent of finding another dude's underwear on the bathroom floor. Yeah. Am I right?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Wow. He's lucky he heard that though, instead of just finding out the hard way.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, good point. This combined with the already heightened emotional state I was in from the loss of my friend really impacted me.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I bet that must have cut to the quick, sorry, man.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Not only had I uprooted my whole life, leaving behind my friends, family and coworkers, I loved to support her, but while she was in school, I had also been financially taking care of us [00:37:00] as I was the only one working at the time. I've never blamed her for these things.

They were my decision, and I decided early on that if I regretted doing this, it was my own doing. I've always been an empathetic person, and this lack of empathy coming from my partner made me feel that I didn't actually have a partner. But rather a manager who was only interested in output.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

Interesting detail here. I've never blamed her for these things. They were my decision and I decided early on that if I regretted doing it, it was my own doing. So Gabe, maybe I'm reading into this too much, but does that imply he had some reservations about supporting her back then as well?

Gabriel Mizrahi: It does sound that way, doesn't it?

But equally interesting to me is how quickly he takes responsibility for it. Like, you might regret doing this, but hey, if you do, that's on you. You chose to support her, which I guess, I mean, in a way it's admirable.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I feel like I do that, but it's not always. There's some wrinkles to this. Yeah, there's some wrinkles.

Yes. He's being a grownup. He's being a leader. He's not blaming her for what he chose to do.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But I think where you're going with this is if there's a part of your brain scratching at you going, um, [00:38:00] am I supporting the right person? Am I taking on too much? Does this feel fair? Is this like extreme ownership thing?

Almost a way to short circuit that doubt.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Just skip over it. Yeah, I can relate, man. I can't help but wonder if part of him back then was like, well, I'm not a hundred percent sure supporting her while she's in school is entirely right. Or fair or, or at least some version of, Hey, this is bringing up some stuff for me.

Instead of sitting with those questions or talking it out with her, which you know is hard or or other people and making sure it's fair and maybe looking at other solutions. He's like, well, I'll do it, but then I choose to do it and I can't complain if it blows up in my face.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. End of story.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's that he's right.

He is ultimately responsible and that might be his way and you know, maybe it's kind of like a cop's way of not having to confront some intense thoughts.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Let's come back to this because I wonder if it might be a theme in his story. So he goes on, we had regular conversations about how we were feeling, tried to stay in touch with each other and started going to couples therapy to work on this and other issues we were having.

Jordan Harbinger: That actually [00:39:00] does not sound avoidant or fast forwardy, so there's that. That's good.

Gabriel Mizrahi: About a year and a half later, we moved back to our previous state. Within two months we decided to end our five-year relationship. After moving back, I immediately found a job in it, and just one year later, I'm already up for promotion to become the team lead.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow, that's amazing. Okay. You sound like a rockstar. I hate that term. It's overused. You got me. But you know, this one fits. Congrats.

Gabriel Mizrahi: After our relationship ended, I realized how much I felt like a shell of my usual self, charismatic, energetic, caring, and generally a very happy person. I can feel my confidence coming back in many of these areas.

Jordan Harbinger: Really important data. Okay, so this tells me that this relationship probably had to end.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Something about the woman he was with or the way he was in that relationship. Kind of, uh, shut down parts of him. You know, that feeling of coming back to yourself after a big relationship or experience. Ah, so good, isn't it?

Yeah, exquisite. I would say

Jordan Harbinger: it's powerful. I feel like there's a Lizzo song playing in my [00:40:00] head, you know, feeling good as hell, you know? That's all

Gabriel Mizrahi: I do. That is so fun. I did not know you were a Lizzo fan.

Jordan Harbinger: This is

Gabriel Mizrahi: news to

Jordan Harbinger: me. Well, funnily enough, I was giving a keynote a few months ago at an event full of dentists that specialized in sleep apnea, crowded dentists that specialized in sleep apnea.

Doesn't sound like super excited, but they're awesome. Everybody was, it was actually like a really great crowd and they were like, what do you want your walk-on song to be the organizer of the event? And I didn't have one. So I had, this guy is a really cool dude, show fan by the way. I was like, just pick a walk-on song for me.

And he picked Lizzo, good as hell as my walk-on song. That's so fun.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And that was the first time you had ever heard

Jordan Harbinger: that song? Yeah, I was. I mean, it's not my usual jam, but it is catchy as hell. Anyway, that's the song that's playing during this part of the movie where he leaves his selfish ex, who definitely just used him to pay for school before moving back to their home state and uh, yeah, and he reclaims his life.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway, welcome back bud. So he goes on. The one area I'm still struggling with though is relationships. I'm hesitant to start dating again after the experience of knowing [00:41:00] someone for 10 years and being with them for five before discovering that the lengths I'd go to to support her would never be enough.

Whenever I see a woman I'm interested in, I find myself wanting to find the perfect thing to say, to capture her interest, but never can. And so I don't even approach them. How can I gain confidence in the dating environment again when I'm scared about feeling like I'll never be enough? Signed a former boy in blue looking for a clue to recover from the view that no matter what I do or how much I accrue, even if it's boku.

I'll never pursue live up to these dues or find the glue that creates connective tissue.

Jordan Harbinger: All right. That sign off was almost as long as this guy's last relationship.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I hopefully way less painful, but I'll take a, yeah,

Jordan Harbinger: debatable. Painful for who? So super interesting story. There's a lot of big stuff going on here.

Let me start by saying you have had quite a five years, my man, starting a career in law enforcement, entering a big relationship, moving with her to another state, getting another job. You lose your friend, which [00:42:00] sounds like it was kind of a formative event. Again, I'm sorry to hear about him. That is super sad.

Then you make a huge career change. Find out you guys are on different pages in a variety of ways. Break up, start over. That's a lot of life to live in half a decade. I mean, some of it's tragic, some of it's exciting, some of it's painful, some of it's joyful.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, it's a lot of change for one person to navigate.

Jordan Harbinger: It's a lot of change and change. That's life baby, I suppose. But you know, it can be quite intense in destabilizing for a person. So I'm not entirely surprised. You're grappling with some confidence stuff. Some Who am I in a relationship and what do I have to offer people stuff, you know? That all fits. And I actually think it's great that you're acknowledging this hesitation, the anxiety and the fear.

I, it's clearly trying to tell you something. It's clearly pointing to parts of your personality that need some attention, and it's very much the opposite of the shortcircuiting we were speculating about a moment ago. So I think that that's excellent. So I totally understand why this breakup did a number on you, given what you found out about how your girlfriend felt.

The math here is [00:43:00] very clean. She said something rather painful that hit you in a tender spot for two or three big reasons. Now you're going, huh? Are all women just going to be disappointed by me? Will I ever be enough for anyone? You're carrying this trauma forward into other relationships and it's informing how you view the world.

That's very common. That said, and I'm sure you're already onto this to some degree, but I'll say it anyway, I think this probably goes back a lot further than your ex, because for what she said and whatever else that came up in your relationship and couple's therapy for all that, to shake your confidence so profoundly, it would've to hit you in a particularly vulnerable spot.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You mean like might have chimed with something he already believed to be true of himself based on some earlier wound.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. And so the question becomes what exactly is that vulnerable spot and how did it get created?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that is the question. Well, like you said, it sounds like a few things. There might be some preexisting, I'm not enoughness.

That almost certainly goes back to childhood for most people. And by the way. I think every single human being has that [00:44:00] fear. To some degree that's not unique to him. This is like one of the defining features of human beings.

Jordan Harbinger: For sure. Am I enough? Am I worthy? Can I handle this? Yeah. That's universal.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And especially interesting quality in a cop though, because a lot of people drawn to law enforcement, not all of course, but many have a real desire to protect, to be of service, to be responsible for their fellow man.

And so even though he's left that field, it is an interesting question. Does this potential wound we're talking about partly explain the draw to a career, where to put it simply, you have to prove your value constantly. You know where you have to step up to the plate and put yourself in harm's way, and where sometimes you get to be the hero.

Jordan Harbinger: Maybe. That's really interesting. Especially 'cause that's also kind of what he did for his ex. He was the hero while she was in school. Logistically, financially. So in a similar way, I'm wondering like, was that also a response to this fear of not being enough? Is it possible that that's what he was getting, quote unquote out of that arrangement with his ex?

Was it a way to prove to himself and to her that he was enough?

Gabriel Mizrahi: And is that part of [00:45:00] why it was so devastating to find out that it still wasn't enough for her?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I mean that tracks for me. I also suspect that this played a role in the whole, well, I did this to myself so I can't regret it later thing.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hmm, interesting. Explain

Jordan Harbinger: again, reading between the lines. He can decide if this is true, but I have a feeling that the conscious part of his brain is going, uh, I have some reservations about supporting her fully and the largely unconscious part of his mind goes, I have to prove I'm enough. I have to do all of this to keep her happy and close.

To your point a moment ago, those two parts were in tension and he might've experienced that tension and gone well. I just have to decide and if I regret it later, I'll eat it. And that's on me.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. That makes a lot of sense to me. Let's remember that the other reason that comment hurt so much was his friend had just died.

Jordan Harbinger: He was grieving. Yeah. I'm sure that made everything hurt more.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Made everything hurt more, but also maybe brought up some very big existential questions. I mean, when your friend dies at 26 years old, I'm sure you look at that and you go, man, that that could happen to me. You know, life is not guaranteed so.

[00:46:00] How do I want to live my life? Whom do I want to live it with? What values do I really believe in and am I actually living up to them?

Jordan Harbinger: One of those values for him seems to be empathy. He clearly values that quality in himself, so to feel he wasn't getting it from her, that was particularly devastating,

Gabriel Mizrahi: of course.

And feeling like your partner doesn't identify with you the same way you identify with them after sacrificing something big and supporting them in their dream. That probably touched every aspect of their relationship.

Jordan Harbinger: Totally. But by the way, as long as we're here, I just want to say. We're only hearing one side of the story, what we're hearing, it doesn't make her look very good.

And if it's true that he supported her through school and then she was like, ah, if he can't support me financially, I'm going to find me a man who will. I think most people listening are going, she sounds ungrateful and shallow, and maybe she is,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but your point is we don't really know.

Jordan Harbinger: We don't know. We don't know what other issues came up in their relationship.

He alluded to them, but he didn't say what they were. We don't know how our friend here is with finances in general. She might've been frustrated about something. She might've been scared, she might've been venting to [00:47:00] a friend in a difficult moment and just kind of popping off like

Gabriel Mizrahi: right

Jordan Harbinger: how, who hasn't said some dumb ish to their friend about.

A relationship they're in that they didn't mean like it happens.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, for all we know, she fill in the blank, right? Grew up in a home where money was an issue and after being in school for years and years without earning an income, and then watching her boyfriend leave one very stable field for a new one, without knowing how well he was going to do, I mean, that might have made her feel insecure or powerless.

And in that moment with her friend, you know, saying she would find a man who can support her, maybe that just made her feel better. I mean, just to name one example,

Jordan Harbinger: all possible, we just don't know. Speaking of, I'm reminded of, uh. You see that key and Peel sketch where they're like, yeah. And then I said, I said, bitch de.

And then they're like, oh, you said that, huh? You said that. And he's like, well

Gabriel Mizrahi: that's a classic.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah, that's so, that's so good. It's so funny. God, those guys are geniuses. Anyway, that has nothing to do with the question, but it does remind me, you know, sometimes you say something and it's like, oh, I didn't really do that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And then you tell the story to someone else and you sound amazing and awesome. Yes. And then it's like, [00:48:00] how did that play out? Oh, this was in my head only. Thank

Jordan Harbinger: you. So my point is we just don't know, and I want to acknowledge that. 'cause it's always an interesting challenge to imagine what the other party in a feedback Friday story might say about all this.

And to try to empathize with that person.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. But

Jordan Harbinger: yeah, she sounds like a gold digging brat though.

I kidding. It's kinda, I don't know. I make room for both, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Making room for both. That's a nice way to put it for sure. I, I, I take your point. Well, let's just say that she is maybe a little bit of a brat. Okay. Or let's take the judgment out of it. Let's just say that she wanted a successful man who would financially take care of her.

She's allowed to want that. I'm a little confused about why she went to medical school, which I presume is setting her up for a pretty good career if that's the case, but whatever, we can't know. But she's allowed to want that. It might not be the most compassionate stance to our friend here. It might speak to some needs of hers that are more primitive or whatever values that are more suspect, and it might have blinded her to the [00:49:00] generous sacrifices our friend here made when it really mattered or not.

Maybe she did value those sacrifices and she wanted something more. Whatever it is she's allowed to want that. He's allowed to value what he finds important, which seems to be empathy, hard work, evolving, whatever that is, which for what it's worth, I think are great values. So that's my bias, but ultimately that is really all that's under his control.

I do wonder though, if seeing those values more clearly because of this relationship and possibly also this friend's death, if maybe that is also contributing to his shaken confidence because now he knows what matters to him, right? He's a little older, he is 30, has this big relationship under his belt.

He knows that he needs these things in a relationship and maybe now he's a little worried that he's not going to get that from the next woman he meets, and that's going to really hurt.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I could see that and I do appreciate that fear. It's funny, as you get older, dating gets easier 'cause you know who you are and what you want from a partner.

But in a way it gets harder 'cause the target gets smaller, right? Who's going to meet all these very clear [00:50:00] needs and values that I have accumulated over the years? You know, it's tough. So here are my thoughts. You have this fear that you're going to get involved with someone and then find out that the lengths you'd go to support her will never be enough.

One way to approach that fear is it's either true or it's not true, but you won't know until you get involved with somebody and who you get involved with the values she holds, the capacities she has, that's what's largely going to determine whether it turns out to be true, right? So you might want to shift the way you're framing this anxiety rather than going, I'm afraid, I'm going to find out.

That'll never be enough. You might want to go, I gotta make sure that the person I choose values me in the ways that I want to be valued. I know that might sound like a cutesy little reframe. Maybe it is just partially semantics. But one of those is going to keep you stuck in a very abstract fear, and the other is going to help you assess your partners the right way.

That means paying attention to these signals both with the women you date, say and do, and also how they make you feel. I'm obviously still thinking about that if I regret this one day comment you made so that you don't overlook any important signals along [00:51:00] the way. It also means asking good questions, sussing these values out, observing the other person is objectively as you can, talking about what's coming up in your relationship with some trusted people.

All that, and in a take that will surprise no one. I do think one of those trusted people should probably be a therapist. I'm glad you were in couples therapy before. You have some experience, but since we're talking about some very old and deep stuff, fear, partnership, self-worth death, and since you're in the middle of a huge transition, I have a feeling that right now would probably be a really fruitful time to be seeing someone.

So just think about that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Amen to all of that. Jordan, I would also add half the equation is whom he picks as a partner, obviously. The other half is how he shows up in a relationship. He's saying, I don't want to find out that the lengths I would go to to support a woman won't be enough. But I think it's also fair to ask what should those lengths really be?

Right? How far should I go and how do I support the person I'm with? We keep coming back to this idea, but the way he related to his ex, the way he responded to her needs, [00:52:00] her anxieties or values, the way they talked about these problems in their relationship, the way he grieved his friend, the way he managed these big life changes.

There are just, there's so many variables here, but there is a world of information that we don't really know that is about him. Not just whom he chooses in the first place, but how he partners. The sense I'm getting from his letter, and I only have the general shape of this, but I'm getting the sense that this relationship might have shaken his understanding of how he relates in general.

Yeah. It might have surfaced this specific fear that he'll never be enough for someone, and that's very real. But equally significant are these questions like, what do I owe a partner? What does a partner really want and need from me? You know, how much of meeting those needs is my job, and how much of that is ultimately her job?

And how do we deal with our differences and how do we stay close while we go through conflict? Can I talk to you if I'm feeling overwhelmed when I'm supporting you and this and that way, or whatever. These are deep and universal questions for all humans. So my point is when he says, I'm hesitant to start dating [00:53:00] again because my confidence took a hit.

Maybe it's not just his confidence around his self-worth, but his confidence in his understanding of what makes a relationship successful at all. His confidence in which parts of him, like his empathy or wanting to be valued for more than his money. You know which parts he can safely bring to the table in a relationship and trust that they're going to be valued and cared for properly.

And so maybe he's going into dating now, a little humbled, you know, like, huh, I'm not sure exactly where I stand. I'm not sure how people are going to meet these qualities of mine. And now that I know which qualities are important to me, if they get rejected from the jump or if they get discounted by a partner down the line.

Then that's going to be even more hurtful and I don't even know how I'm going to respond to that.

Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. So what you're saying is he's protecting himself

Gabriel Mizrahi: in a word. Yeah. And for understandable reasons.

Jordan Harbinger: But it's interesting because the only way to work on this stuff is to, you know,

Gabriel Mizrahi: to be in a relationship, right?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. To actually like be in the arena. I, I mean, what we're talking about right now, what he'd talk about in therapy, [00:54:00] of course super valuable. But if he's going to heal this trauma from his past relationship, if he's going to hopefully rewrite this earlier wound around, around being enough, if he's going to get to discover that there are women who value the things he values, who appreciate him in the right way, it's only going to be by finding one.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right?

Jordan Harbinger: So my advice to you is keep dating and keep putting yourself out there. Lean into the fear and feel it and talk to people anyway, rather than trying to resolve it before you meet a lady. 'cause that's not going to work in any part of life. That's just a fantasy. Keep a close eye on these themes in your future relationships and keep working on them.

'cause I think this is probably going to be a lifelong process, just as it is for everyone.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And about is fear of approaching women now. What do you make of that?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Well, I guess I get to put my dating coach hat on again. Little cheesy. I know. But this stuff is important for men especially since generally speaking, we're the ones who have to take the risk and chatting people up just generally.

I have a strong hunch that working on all the other stuff we've been talking about, that's going to go a long way in reducing this fear. And the reason is the friendlier you become with these tender parts of yourself, [00:55:00] including this confusion, hesitation you have now, this humbling, Gabe just referred to the friendlier you get with all that, the less you're going to want to hide it, cramp around it, the easier it'll be to go up to somebody and say, Hey, I'm Greg.

I'm terrified to talk to you. I just had my heart broken. I just moved back to Colorado. But I know I'm going to kick myself later for not saying hi. So, hi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, nice dude. I can see why you did this stuff.

Jordan Harbinger: You could leave out the. I just had my heart broken thing. If you want like if, if you feel like that's too much too soon.

But yeah. And by the way, this stuff works especially well when you're a hunky ex-cop who knows his way around a gal's router, if you know what I'm saying.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, is that what they're calling it now?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. What do you call it?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that broadband baby. That

Jordan Harbinger: broadband. What's up girl? Give me your number and I'll tell you if Spectrum bringing fiber to your area,

Gabriel Mizrahi: taking back what I just said about you being a good dating

Jordan Harbinger: coach, but okay.

Yeah, maybe I'm a little rusty. My game is dial up now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You got that 56 KBPS.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's what you have.

Jordan Harbinger: I'm totally making that example up. There are a thousand ways to talk to a stranger. I mean, I remember just agonizing over what to say. The first thing, and uh, I [00:56:00] should not share this, but I'm going to, this is in my twenties, little asterisk.

Mm-hmm. But I was in a crowded bar. I met a girl that I dated for a minute doing this. I was in a crowded bar and there were four girls seated at a table. And in order to get to the bathroom and the bar and my friends, I had to scooch past these girls and I basically had my crotch, like right up against their back 'cause of the way the tables were laid out.

They kept looking up at me and then at one point, like the third time going by, I was like, can you give me a ballpark estimate of how many balls you've had on your shoulders this evening? And they just started laughing so hard and they were like, you're super fun. Sit down and talk with us. And that was the beginning.

And we stayed friends for years and I actually went out with one of the girls, like I said. And that's just like a dumb, probably had a few too many beers kind of opener. You don't have to be vulgar like that. I mean, it works fine when you're in your twenties, but I honestly feel like I could rock that one right now and it would work fine.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I was going to say that's kind of just like in the sweet spot for you. I also love for

Jordan Harbinger: me personally. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I also love stories of pickup Jordy. It's just a great earlier [00:57:00] iteration of my, of my cohost. It's so good.

Jordan Harbinger: It's just kinda like, Hey, people used to do that stuff without getting recorded in their career, getting trashed for it, so yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, but it's way different when it's an open joke and everyone's like, game for the laugh. You're not being creepy. Like, yeah,

Jordan Harbinger: like it would be, don't do it with your balls actually on her shoulder. I think that's the part that I have to highlight here.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it didn't need to be said, but definitely don't pick.

No to pick.

Jordan Harbinger: No.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It needs be said.

Jordan Harbinger: This is 2026.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, cool. Cut to this guy listening to this podcast at Trader Joe's tucking his balls back in his pants before he walks up to someone. Thank God they

Jordan Harbinger: said something Uhhuh. Exactly.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But you know, your earlier example is actually the first one. Uh, is actually nice.

'cause I think what you're getting at is if he gets friendly with this stuff, he might be able to start showing up just as the person he is right now, which is a little raw, right? I'm pretty open. Rather than doing what most of us do, which is hoping he can become someone else magically before he has to put himself out there.

Jordan Harbinger: And I think that's so important. And by the way, not just me, so many women I talk to about this say the same thing. There's something very [00:58:00] refreshing and inherently attractive about somebody who has the vulnerability to just be real and acknowledge how they're feeling in that moment from the get go.

It's humanizing and it's bonding.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I think what you're saying is that that's true confidence, right?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. I believe him that he's feeling insecure. I get it. But the moment he owns his insecurity, it becomes the opposite. And that's kind of the beauty here. And by the way, I just want to remind you, man, you have plenty to be confident about you were a cop, for God's sake.

Man, that already tells me you're capable, responsible, brave. You're selfless not to be reductive, but women are going to dig that

Gabriel Mizrahi: also. You made a huge pivot and invented a whole new career, a whole new life. So many great qualities required to just do that,

Jordan Harbinger: for sure. Plus his empathy, plus his availability, plus his openness and sharing all this with us.

I know we're gassing you up here, but you need to be fluffed a little bit, bro. I'm not telling you to ignore your insecurities. You also have to recognize your assets. And the last thing I'll say, and I know we've gone long here, but it's not every day I get to cosplay as my old self. The thing about wanting to find the perfect thing to say, to capture a woman's interest and then psyching [00:59:00] yourself out.

And by the way, this goes for women too. Very common, painfully common. We've all done that. People spend years not approaching people or talking because they're worried about that. My advice to you there is just let go of the idea that there's a perfect thing to say. 'cause there isn't usually, there's just something to say, oh, cosmic crisp apples, I love these.

You know, you're at the grocery store, you see somebody buy those appies, you blurt that out. It's so dumb, it's so mundane. But she's like, oh yeah, they're the best. Now you're talking it. The next thing you say, it's that much easier. Women aren't like this. Better be creative and funny. And if it's not, I'm rejecting you so hard that everyone's going to know about it.

Like, that's not the game you're playing here, right? It's just like, can I start a conversation at all? And if she's interested a little bit, she's going to sort of take that little bit of catnip and run with it. It's easy. I could go on, but you get the idea. The most important variable is how you behave. The vibe you give off the spirit in which you approach people, your posture, your smile, how you roll with it.

If the person doesn't happen to reciprocate. Yeah. Looks matter. People who tell you that are full of crap. Yeah. Your salary matters. [01:00:00] Don't be naive. I'm not naive, but talk to any woman. Any woman who wants to be hit on 9.5, out of 10 of 'em are going to tell you. They just want a dude who is friendly and funny and minimally confident to come up and talk to them who is not a creep or a weirdo or just fatally awkward or married already.

And that's fine. Like the bar is not that high for the beginning approach of a conversation here. So my homework for you is forget the perfect thing to say, idea. Just say something. Do that enough times and you'll find more and more interesting things to say. You'll see what kind of results you get. You will learn, you will adapt, and I promise it's going to feel way less scary.

This is not just a technique, by the way. This is about putting yourself in situations where you share all these parts of yourself and you see what you get back. That's really all you have to do.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Which I want to acknowledge though, is understandably scary for most people. I mean, strangers are scary.

Jordan Harbinger: It a hundred percent. It was scary for me, even when I was teaching this stuff, the stakes, they feel very high to men especially, and in a way they are. It's largely on us to initiate. There's all this [01:01:00] evolutionary biology at play. It can be intense. There's cultural stuff, but I learned early on, we guys are just really overthinking this stuff.

Women do too, but I think men experience rejection. Usually it's the anticipation of rejection in a unique way. It's just primal. It cuts deep. We allow that to get in our way. There's no easy solution to that. We just have to invite the fear in and act anyway. And when you get some success, I think that's also going to help with the all Never be enough thing too.

I know that fear goes much deeper than getting someone's phone number at Trader Joe's or whatever. That's just a bandaid. But I think when you take some more swings, you go through a few more relationships, you show up in those relationships in new ways with more of you, that's going to give you a lot more data about whether you are in fact enough.

And that's a huge piece of the healing that you're looking for. We went pretty deep into that one. We didn't even get to talk very much about the friend who died.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, yeah, I know. There's so much more to know about that. I feel like that's kind of in the background of his letter. Somehow I don't fully know how.

Jordan Harbinger: Same [01:02:00] look, grief, gratitude, a sense of vulnerability, all ultimately important things to be in touch with. I am very sorry you had to say goodbye, but I hope you're finding some meaningful stuff in this morning period, and I hope you carry those lessons forward. You sound like a really solid dude, man.

You're on a terrific path. I'm excited for you. Keep up the good work and good luck. Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes or you want to share your sick pickup lines for this listener right here.

Anyway, you can find all those discussions on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. You know what else is a real panty dropper. The deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do that is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. They're all searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. If something's not working for you or you can't remember the code, [01:03:00] definitely email us.

We'll dig up that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show now for the rest of feedback, Friday. Alright, time for the recommendation of the week. I

Lip Filla Clip: am addicted to Lit Fella,

Gabriel Mizrahi: so my mom, shout out to Robin. Love you mom. For the last few years and then especially in the last couple months, she's been dealing with some health stuff.

Nothing immediately, life threatening, but chronic stuff that could become a problem down the road. And she ended up in the ER a couple months ago and that kicked off this very urgent quest for answers. And suddenly I was helping her coordinate dozens of doctor's appointments across different departments and, you know, getting a bunch of lab tests all the time and ex trying to understand the results and getting multiple opinions from different doctors and staying on top of medications and corresponding with this doctor.

After we spoke with that doctor, you know how it's, it's quite a project so. I've been going with her to her appointments and taking very copious notes so we could track everything and refer back, and I wanted to share updates on the situation with my family. I also wanted to easily summarize [01:04:00] stuff for her doctor, so I started using chat GPT to track everything and to do research on terms and conditions I didn't know and organize my notes and to easy summaries and action items, stuff like that.

Now, I know there's a lot of controversy around using AI for health stuff. Obviously turning to AI for medical advice is dicey not something anyone should do without a medical expert's input. And I also understand that there are very real privacy concerns. I also know I'm going to get, I'm going to get emails from people raging about the data centers going up in their town so that my mom can write her endocrinologist an email about her calcium levels or whatever.

I hear you. I get it. I really do. I promise you can save us both the email

Jordan Harbinger: or just have chat GPT write it for you and make AI get mad at Gabe. Save a few minutes. Just saying

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. Then you're the asshole for putting up a data center. Also a great use case by the way, but um, using AI just for the admin part of managing a health problem, like research and notes and generating summaries and asking it to move between the details and the bigger picture of what's happening, that is a total game changer.

It has [01:05:00] been an incredible help. So that's my recommendation of the week, using AI to help you with the admin and the research layer of your healthcare. Having gone through this now with my mom, who by the way, is doing much better now, and we finally got some answers and some interventions we needed, which makes me very happy having dealt with all of this.

I know that the system and the language are very daunting, and as you get older, it gets harder to track the hundreds of details you need to track to get good healthcare, to get the answers you need and follow up with the right people. So this strikes me as also an excellent use case for ai. So just thought I would share that.

I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. I understand there are pros and cons, but if you need help with this stuff, I would give it a go. It has been a godsend.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. What's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe love the show. A while back on episode 1236, you guys offered some great insights on a letter from a guy whose younger millennial girlfriend didn't want to work weekends and was maybe sending the wrong signals to her gen ex-boss.

You remember this one?

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. This is the woman who, when her boss was like, Hey, how's it going with our super important client that you are in [01:06:00] charge of on a Monday morning? She's like, well, I haven't heard back yet. But also I didn't check my email 'cause it was the weekend. You know, like boundaries.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's the one.

And she wanted to work from home, but her boyfriend was like, uh, I don't know how she phrased that request. It might have been more like I'm working from home and you have to deal with it

Jordan Harbinger: by, yeah. He was worried that his girlfriend might unintentionally be giving her bosses the sense that she didn't care.

So if I recall, our take was basically her sarcastic tone and overall vibe. Well, they kind of suggested that she doesn't take things very seriously at work.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And that not checking your email over the weekend, I mean, even not checking it in the elevator on the way up when you're in client service, that is not boundaries.

That's probably just not being good at your job.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. I know I'm a red-blooded American in the work department and our listeners in Portugal or France are, or whatever, they're probably like. Um, I don't know.

I dunno.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, low work is not Levy is the message that I got from a few of them,

Jordan Harbinger: but I'm sorry if you're not on top of basic stuff at [01:07:00] your job. Even if you can get away with it, I don't know. It just paints a picture of somebody who isn't very conscientious nor motivated. Certainly not somebody I wouldn entrust with more responsibility.

Gabe, I also, I know that Europeans have this like work week thing and you can't email someone after work. I just refuse to believe that. The high performers in those countries aren't checking their email the second they get to the office so that they are prepared for a Monday morning meeting. I just, they have to be,

Gabriel Mizrahi: no.

I've talked to a few of my friends in Europe and they're like, no, no, no. If you work in, in a corporate environment or if you're in banking or whatever, that you're not playing by that rule. That might be the law, but you're not doing that.

Jordan Harbinger: I see. So they just, just ignore that whole thing. Okay, that makes sense.

Gabriel Mizrahi: They're saying like the bosses can't make them. But if they don't do it, they know they won't be able to compete in that environment.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's right. I'm not going to make you do it, but Tom does it and we like Tom more than we like you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: For reasons that I can't put into writing,

Gabriel Mizrahi: so our friend goes on.

I think there are perspectives you might have overlooked in your response.

Jordan Harbinger: Great. Let's hear

Gabriel Mizrahi: for context, I'm from Gen Z.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. We're about to get cooked. We were about to get shredded. [01:08:00] I can tell

Gabriel Mizrahi: one of the things you suggested in your response was that this is not actually about a generational divide and that this was an issue with the specific worker's mindset.

Jordan Harbinger: Pretty sure I stand by that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know that worker and her values and it certainly seems to me that if her objective is to overperform and rise up at that firm, she may need to take a different approach.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, not May. Will.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Will indeed. But if you don't resonate with the perspective I want to share, maybe that does indicate a generational divide and therefore maybe a sense in which the perspective you shared isn't universal or objective

Jordan Harbinger: shots fired.

I suppose

Gabriel Mizrahi: in your response, you said there's an easy way to do this, meaning stay on top of stuff like client emails without sacrificing your whole weekend. That's true. If you only check one email, it's not true. If you set the expectation for your management and for your clients that you check email on the weekends, and the way to stop them from developing this expectation, taking over your weekends is, you guessed it through boundaries.

Whether or not you set that boundary around [01:09:00] responding to a few high priority messages or just not checking messages at all is up to you.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I just can't imagine not checking a few high priority messages over two or three days when you know, your boss might ask if everything is going okay on Monday morning.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. There's some jobs where this quote unquote boundary is not a boundary. It's neglecting the job description as far as I can tell,

Jordan Harbinger: for sure. And if she doesn't want to rise up at this place, that's fine. She doesn't have to. But then a person like that should not complain that they don't make enough money or that people don't entrust them with important projects,

Gabriel Mizrahi: or for that matter has to work from home.

But I digress.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, no, that's the other thing. You have to work from home when you're crushing it and you've proven to your boss that you're solid and the office is a formality, you don't need. You don't drop the ball on taking care of clients and then be like, yeah, I'm working from home the rest of the week.

'cause we know what you're doing. Hanging out at Trader Joe's.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Catch me on Slack. How about that?

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. I got, I just got a picture of entitlement slash unself [01:10:00] awareness there that just grinds my gears and I'm not even her boss.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So he goes on. You also suggested that a worker that communicates about things that they don't want to be responsible for has a quote unquote loser mentality.

Jordan Harbinger: I mean that does sound like something I would say, but I assume I qualified that somehow.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So he goes on another perspective could be that this worker is effectively prioritizing what she actually cares about, which could include lots of things besides work at that firm

Jordan Harbinger: maybe and hey, fair enough. But the boyfriend didn't mention that in his letter.

If he was like, she doesn't want to give her Saturdays to this firm 'cause she's getting certified and this other thing she's planning to pivot to. She's in a master's program. She wants to visit her sick mother. She wants to volunteer at her church. That would've been a completely different story. Then I'd be like, oh, okay.

She's being strategic. She's being disciplined.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Although I would still say she should think about how that might come across to her boss and the way that she's talking to him.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. This isn't like optics or politics or whatever. This is about the way she manages the different parts of her life and the way she expresses her interest and her dedication or [01:11:00] lack thereof.

Gabriel Mizrahi: He goes on. But this might also be a self-aware recognition of symptoms of burnout, where setting boundaries could be essential for maintaining good workplace performance. You could even see this as direct communication, which could help management or clients figure out how to prioritize their needs.

Jordan Harbinger: I see what you're getting at.

But I don't think that woman was being direct in her communication at all. She was being sarcastic and passive aggressive, like with the whole, you know, like boundaries. This wasn't a mature and productive conversation. She was just being annoying and entitled, and that's exactly how her boyfriend and the boss and everybody at work seems to have kind of taken this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think the letter writer should have asked other questions like, does she want to rise up in that firm? Does she want to look for other career strategies or other priorities in life? Is she experiencing symptoms of burnout? Is she happy with how things are going for her or does she want things to change?

Jordan Harbinger: So this I definitely agree with and I feel like we would've suggested this, but maybe we didn't. You're right. Whatever that [01:12:00] girlfriend's reasons for not wanting to work harder, they do reflect certain values and certain priorities. If those are the values and priorities she really believes in, then that's her choice.

Of course, for some people, rising up at work just is not important for other people. It's everything. And I get that. So maybe we should have encouraged the letter writer to get clear with her on those values before telling her what to do. Maybe she's made up her mind or maybe she hasn't really reflected much on this and just getting clear on what matters to her would shift her behavior without him having to say, yeah, you should check your email and stop talking to your boss that way.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So he goes on. I work as specialized IT and health software, a huge corporate environment, and talk to IT and leadership teams at our clients. I work with seven clients and work about 50 hours per week, even as I am simultaneously applying for graduate school.

Jordan Harbinger: Damn, that's a lot Good on you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I used to work more but realized that the large corporate environment would be willing to give me an essentially infinite amount of work unless I stopped getting it all done or communicated clearly that I thought I had had enough responsibilities [01:13:00] already.

This communication actually went over well, maybe because so much of my workplace consists of millennials and Gen Z, and my feedback since then has included that I am efficient, focus on the most important issues and delegate better.

Jordan Harbinger: Great. But also what you're saying to them is not, yeah, I didn't check this crucial email.

'cause boundaries, bro. That's the difference. This person, she already had this client, she was just neglecting them because it was the weekend. You're saying, I can't handle more clients 'cause I need to focus on the ones I have and I can't do a good job if I'm overstretched. That's a completely different thing.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, he's not falling below the minimal expectation for his job. Right. He's just saying, I can't take on infinitely more work above and beyond that than what you need from me right now. That's completely different.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I have another take, which is one good way to avoid being exploited is to go above and beyond.

Then ask to be compensated for it more pay, title, bump, whatever it is. And then if they say, yes, you're happy to do the work and you're not being taken advantage of, and if they say no, you can say, oh, okay, I understand, but I then I can't [01:14:00] keep doing all the additional work if it is additional work. Of course.

Or you look for another job and in your interviews you talk about how you went above and beyond in your current role and you get a better offer. That's the approach that I am a big fan of. I want, I don't know, Gabe, you kind of pioneered this as well, so I assume you you're into that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm a big fan.

Jordan Harbinger: To your point.

It is all about priorities.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Of course, this also allowed me to get more ambitious about what I really care about, including personal projects and applying for grad school.

Jordan Harbinger: I don't say this to be snarky, but you are making my point for me. That's what you care about. Great. She didn't have something else.

She cared about more than that job. She just wanted to have boozy brunches on Sundays and not be prepared for the Monday morning huddle because she didn't feel like checking her email. That's all

Gabriel Mizrahi: presumably. I mean, he didn't tell us, but

Jordan Harbinger: presumably,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but I think he would've mentioned if there was something else.

So our friend goes on. Perhaps the workplace has changed a lot since you've last been there.

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, I've had a real job for like five minutes, but yes, I age 20 years with that sentence. I am 46, dude, I am. I'm not retired. But look, I know law firms haven't [01:15:00] changed. I know people are still putting in 60 to 80 hour weeks in investment banking.

The Gen Zs I know in corporate right now, they are not faffing off and sassing their bosses for it. They're doing exactly what I was doing back then. They're just getting paid a quarter million dollars a year. So I don't even fully buy into the generational divide. I think people who just want to hire gunners, they hire gunners and they pay gunner more.

Gabriel Mizrahi: People's careers are a lot less linear now and far fewer people rise up within a corporate ladder. America has undergone corporate consolidation, increased income inequality, and a general hollowing out of the middle class. This has been informed by variables like changing technology and geopolitics, and has coincided with increased pressure that starts with our education system and can show as greater demands of workers that are attempting an upper middle class life.

I highly recommend Daniel Markowitz's book The Meritocracy Trap, which breaks down how human capital is the new variable that separates economic classes and how this affects work and culture. [01:16:00] Anyway, happy 400th episode. Signed a listener from the next generation full of ation, but in a bit of frustration.

By your take that chaining yourself to your workstation will really lead to more compensation or should even be the aspiration.

Jordan Harbinger: So that was fascinating. And I gotta say, even though I disagree on a lot of those points, I always appreciate getting emails like this. 'cause it is so interesting to hear how younger generations view work and communication and work life balance instead of just being like back in my day.

In fact, I am aware by taking the stance that I have, we are probably actually coming across the way our grandparents came across. You know, young kids don't know what hard work is. I had to assert whatever the uphill both ways. Braggy accomplishment here, putting in 60 hours a week and raising three kids or whatever.

But just to bottom line this. I don't care. Your circumstances, your goals, your age. There are people who hustle. There are people who do not hustle. There are people who are on top of it and there are people who are just not on top of it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And therefore there are people you can trust with stuff and there are people you [01:17:00] just can't trust.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You don't want to make your career the center of your life. Fine. That is a choice. That is a very legitimate choice. I don't think it's the wisest choice in this system and uh, it's not how I'm wired, but I can accept it obviously. But if you're in client service and you don't know what's up with your clients, when your boss asks on a Monday morning during a meeting, that's a problem.

I'm just thinking about his Scott Galloway, uh, famously a huge critic of what they would call work life balance. I'm quite sure many times. And he said, and I'm paraphrasing here. You want to have work life balance in your twenties and thirties, that's fine, but you are not going to have wealth later in life.

You are just not. So if you're okay with that, that's fine. Accumulating wealth isn't important to a lot of people. But then do not complain later when you can't afford boozy brunches and fancy clothes in a mortgage.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, to say nothing of all the other benefits of working hard, besides the wealth and the money and whatever power, I mean, there's being a meaningful part of things.

Having strong professional relationships, being able to take care of [01:18:00] yourself and other people. The empowerment

Jordan Harbinger: that comes

Gabriel Mizrahi: from that. Being effective, feeling effective. Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: I'm not saying anybody who doesn't give up their twenties and thirties is useless or something like that. I don't want to be taken that way, but it's basically like you're not going to get to the same level as somebody who did, and they're going to be compensated for that.

That's just how this works. And when you hold it alongside other facts in that letter, it painted a picture of a larger problem, a larger personality, a general lens on the world, and a general EQ that just strikes me as very limited and very self-oriented. If you want to chalk that up to generational differences.

Okay, fine.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Generational differences. I think that kind of glosses over a better question, which is, which set of values is actually better, which set of habits or practices is going to add to their organization and make things easier? And which one is going to subtract and make things harder? I think we know the answer.

Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. I'm pretty sure the person who takes 60 seconds to glance at an email on Monday morning instead of going, yeah, well actually I don't know what's up with the client. 'cause you know, boundaries. That person is making things harder for everyone

Gabriel Mizrahi: and [01:19:00] unnecessarily harder just to prove a point.

Which is the other thing that was hard.

Jordan Harbinger: Like you can't make me Yeah, exactly. That's the other thing. She was standing on some kind of vague principle and being snooty about it. That's a problem in a corporate environment.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I find his last argument kind of interesting. So basically he's saying people's careers are a lot less linear, far fewer people rise up in corporate life.

There's consolidation. And income. And equality and what else was there? Hollowing out of the middle class, technology, education, they've all made it harder to rise up and people who want to achieve this upper middle class life are being asked to do more and more and more. He's probably right about some of that.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, he definitely is. That's for sure.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm no expert, but it does fit with what we've been reading about for a while. Inequality is real. Our economy is changing. I don't disagree. But in that paradigm, I would say that the people who really show up and go the extra mile, that behavior matters even more Now,

Jordan Harbinger: of course, and here's the thing, Gabriel, the hollowing out of the middle class ai, it's harder to rise up.

The top 10% is taking the lion's share of the wealth. Man, that's a tough [01:20:00] economy. You know what though? It sure sounds like it's even more important in that environment to be a high performer and be in the top bracket. That sounds like a good idea, bro.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm not trying to be Pollyannish here. I understand that the world is getting harder.

I understand that in some environments, it doesn't matter how hard you work, you're going to hit a ceiling or you're going to tap out, or the people will take advantage of you or whatever. Although, to be honest, my experience is that hard work, conscientious work usually has a way of generating new opportunities and getting noticed.

But that's a whole other topic. In a system where generally speaking, people tend not to rise to the level of their potential, but fall to the level of expectations. The people who work hard and follow through, not necessarily because they want every last scent or they need to be in charge, but because it genuinely matters to them, those people only stand out more.

So it's interesting. You could look at all of these forces you mentioned and just throw your hands up and be like, well, there's no point. Or you could look at them and say, okay, which mindsets are going to maximize my chances of succeeding in this system? Maybe that makes me a [01:21:00] simp for capitalism or whatever, but to me, that's going to lead to much better outcomes for everyone involved.

It also just seems way more fun, but maybe that's just me.

Jordan Harbinger: Amen to all that. Could not agree more. The irony of all this is that our friend here sounds like a super hard worker, and he's clear on his priorities, which I have to say is kind of ironic given the book he recommended, which a lot of people actually say that.

That book, it blames people just like him for getting elite educations and making too much money. It's one of the main thrusts of the book, so he's very different from the girlfriend in that letter. It's in almost every way. Anyway, it's all super interesting. I like when you guys challenge our values and our way of thinking.

I guess the question I'm taking away from this is, is this a function of generational differences? Or is this a function of core values instead?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it's core values. And also a good question, is those values, are they relative to each person or are they absolute and timeless? I think they're absolute and timeless.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, obviously my bias is toward the latter, but maybe I'm just the old man shaking his fist at the sky. Anyway, thanks for writing [01:22:00] in. Congrats on managing your time and goals. So well. I hope you get into a great grad program, which you're going to get into 'cause you have a good work ethic and you're intentionally building a life based on productive values.

I might add And wishing you all the best, go back and check out our episode with Johnathan Walton and our Skeptical Sunday on remote viewing. If you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life have come through my network. The circle of people that I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build that for yourself in our Six Minute Networking course.

The course is free, no shenanigans. It's at Sixminutenetworking.com, the drills. Take a few minutes a day, dig the well before you get thirsty. Build relationships before you need them all. Free Sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe is on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and [01:23:00] opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer.

Consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Corbin Payne, our clinical expert's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance.

Ditto Christian Magnell. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

We're more connected than ever and somehow more vulnerable than we've ever been. Cyber Crisis author Eric Cole explains how AI driven attackers corporate scale scam operations and aging systems have turned everyday tech into an open door.

JHS Trailer: So you want to be a hundred percent secure. You want your family to be a hundred percent secure.

It's easy. Pack up your bags, sell everything. Move to Pennsylvania and become Amish. Because I'll tell [01:24:00] you, I hacked a lot of things in my life. I have not been able to hack a candle and a horse and buggy. If you have no functionality or no benefit, you can be a hundred percent secure. And to give you a more realistic example, my smartphone, as soon as you add any functionality, you're decreasing Security.

Security and functionality are inverse a hundred percent. Security is zero. Functionality. What is the value and benefit? What is the risk and exposure Is the value worth the risk? If the value and benefit is worth the risk, do it. If the value and benefit is not worth the risk, don't do it. And the reality is, and I always tell people, the most dangerous word on the internet is the F word, and it's not what you're thinking.

The F word is free. Free is not free because all the times when you have a free app, you're basically allowing them to access your microphone or your camera or your pictures. If they ask you and you say yes, and you give them permission, that's actually an authorized app that is allowed. And the reality is most people don't even realize when they [01:25:00] install these apps, they're hitting yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

And allowing access. If I want to make my smartphone a hundred percent secure, smash it, burn it, throw it in a ditch, turn it off, and it'll be a hundred percent secure. It's actually freaking scary of how much you're being monitored and tracked with your phones, then you don't even realize it.

Jordan Harbinger: Check out episode 1247 of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Eric Cole, and you'll start looking at your phone, your home, and even the power grid very differently.

This episode is sponsored in part by the Conspirituality Podcast. We're living in a world absolutely saturated with information, some real, a lot total nonsense, but there are folks out there doing the hard work to cut through the noise. Like the folks on the Conspirituality Podcast, this is not a casual chat.

You've got a journalist who knows the ins and outs of fact checking, AOC cult researcher, who's going down rabbit holes you didn't even know existed, a philosophical skeptic to keep everybody in check. They're taking on everything from RFK Junior's anti-vax talking points, which I mentioned on the show.

And many of you, uh, had strong feelings about that to the downright murky [01:26:00] ideology, followed by Yiv Guinea Prego and members of the Wagner Group, uh, the guy who just died in a very mysterious plane crash over in Russia. And they're not just throwing opinions at you, they're providing insights that make you go, huh, okay.

I've never thought about it that way. And the best part is they're guided by one principle we should all get behind, which is good. Proven science, you know, like Skeptical Sunday for example. Tons of interesting episodes like the one about the wellness industry or the episode on EMF at 5G and Chemtrails.

It is similar to Skeptical Sunday in a different format from exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape. The Conspirituality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics. Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.