The ex-wife turned your son against you because you called the cops when her daughter was caught on camera stealing from you. Welcome to Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- The ex-wife manipulated your son against you because you called the cops when her daughter was caught on camera stealing from you. Now he refuses to talk to you. What can you do?
- Is there a way to accept the job offer two states over that pays $60,000 more than you were making while sharing custody of your 16-year-old daughter who graduates in 18 months?
- Ever since you were young, networking and building relationships have made you uncomfortable, and you’ve always felt like you’re inconveniencing people by contacting them. You think it may have to do with time spent around a volatile, negative sister during your formative years. How can you overcome this?
- Dr. Carl Hart claims that drugs like heroin, crack cocaine, and crystal meth can, when used responsibly, enhance a person’s life in a variety of ways, such as helping married couples become closer. Well, in spite of losing your mother to heroin six years ago, you thought you might benefit from giving it a try — to disastrous results. While you’re currently in recovery, you wanted to share your story with others to spare them from making the same mistake based on this “expert’s” advice.
- Working at a large company, you’re sick of watching so many others around you get promoted while you continue to languish in the middle ranks. And ever since failing to pass a grueling interview gauntlet for a leadership position, your morale has been drained. How can you heal this emotional wound?
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi.
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
Please Scroll Down for Featured Resources and Transcript!
Please note that some of the links on this page (books, movies, music, etc.) lead to affiliate programs for which The Jordan Harbinger Show receives compensation. It’s just one of the ways we keep the lights on around here. Thank you for your support!
This Episode Is Sponsored By:
- Northern Knives: Go to northernknives.com and use code JORDAN for 10% off and free shipping
- CleanShot X: Mac users go to cleanshot.com and enter code JORDAN to save 10%
- WRKOUT: Go to community.wrkout.com/jordan to sign up with a virtual trainer
- Momentous: Go to livemomentous.com and use code JORDAN20 for 20% off your first order
- The Adam Carolla Show: Listen here or wherever you find fine podcasts!
Want to hear a conversation with an ex-royal/ex-SEAL who fights to end human trafficking and illegal organ harvesting? Check out episode 868 with Remi Adeleke!
Resources from This Episode:
- Zach Weinersmith | Out-of-This-World Hurdles to Colonizing Mars | Jordan Harbinger
- Stevie Wonder | Website
- Breaking Bad | Prime Video
- Six-Minute Networking
- Carl Hart | Wikipedia
- The Addiction Researcher Carl Hart Makes a Case for Legalizing Heroin | The New Yorker
- Chris DeArmitt | Rethinking Plastic’s Environmental Impact | Jordan Harbinger
- Siddharth Kara | How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives | Jordan Harbinger
945: Estranged from Son for What His Sister’s Done | Feedback Friday
This transcript is yet untouched by human hands. Please proceed with caution as we sort through what the robots have given us. We appreciate your patience!
[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback. Friday producer, the emotional support animal, keeping me calm on this turbulent flight of life advice. Gabriel Mizrahi, did you just call me your pet? Well, one of those really well-behaved ones with one of the little red vests.
[00:00:20] That say, don't pet me, I'm a service animal, even though you're not a service animal. And it's definitely just me trying to con my weight into bringing a dog on a plane.
[00:00:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Um, if you don't get me that vest for Christmas this year, I am quitting. That's all I can say. Let's see if they
[00:00:32] Jordan Harbinger: have ones that are bigger than like chihuahua sized.
[00:00:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: wear it on my arm, bro. I don't care. That's
[00:00:37] Jordan Harbinger: true. You could do that on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.
[00:00:51] And during the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from mafia enforcers, hostage negotiators, economic hitmen astronauts, national security advisors or tech luminaries. This week we had Zach Weiner Smith on Colonizing Space. Is it possible, should we be doing it? When is the right time to do it?
[00:01:10] What are the reasons that it might be kind of impossible or super, super difficult? What might kill humans over there on Mars or even the moon? Really fascinating conversation because. He brought receipts, like, can we even survive there? How are people gonna get born there? What about space, sex, all kinds of stuff like that.
[00:01:27] On Fridays though, we take listener letters, tell stories, do our best to both appreciate and have a laugh about the old human condition. Before we dive today, I just wanna share a little gem that turned out to be incredibly useful in my life. And that is the idea that if you have good habits, time becomes your ally.
[00:01:45] All you need is patience, right? And on a related note. There's a quote that I love. The best version of yourself is the version looking for a better version of yourself. And I know that's kind of corny, I admit that, but it's definitely been true for me. I feel the best when I'm not just, you know, going through the motions of something or thinking about going through the motions, but I'm actively learning new skills like working on my Chinese, or I'm in the process of becoming a better version of myself, not when I'm caught up in the fantasy of being that guy or telling myself I'm gonna do it later, or making plans to learn something in the near future.
[00:02:20] I love being in that and constantly evolving. And I think something in our brains as humans makes us feel better when we are working on ourselves. And again, that dovetails nicely with habits because if you're doing a little bit of something every day, then all you have to do is keep doing it. And time is your ally.
[00:02:36] All you really need is the patience and discipline to do it every day. Alright, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the
[00:02:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: mailbag? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I have three kids with my ex-wife, two boys who are close in age, and a girl who's a few years younger. We had an amicable divorce and share 50 50 custody, and for the first several years we had a very good relationship.
[00:02:56] We even went on family vacations together once or twice a year where I paid for everything. Sometimes even with her new husband and my new wife. We also used to meet up and do things together as a family well. Well, that's
[00:03:07] Jordan Harbinger: very sweet.
[00:03:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is. I love families like this. My family's kinda like this. I love it.
[00:03:11] So he goes on. Then two years ago during our last family vacation together, someone broke into my and my new wife's house and stole a number of things including jewelry and medication. This had happened twice before while we were on vacation, and both times I suspected my ex stepdaughter, my wife's daughter before we were married.
[00:03:31] She has a long history of substance abuse and has been in and out of rehab several times. While I was married to my ex-wife, she stole from me and pretty much everyone else in the house frequently. My ex-wife continually enabled her and this was the main reason we got a divorce.
[00:03:47] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. We hear these stories a lot and this is super sad.
[00:03:51] It must be Mm-Hmm. Really hard to have somebody in active addiction in your family. Stealing. Lying. Yeah.
[00:03:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, her addiction must be pretty severe. Mm-Hmm. If she's stealing jewelry and medication from the people she lives with or used to live with, it's rough. So he goes on. When I spoke with my ex-wife about the break-ins, she became very upset and turned on me.
[00:04:11] My ex-wife is manipulative and has a vindictive side that comes out in situations like this. Before the last break-in, I warned my ex stepdaughter that I had had enough, and that if she stole from us again, we would press charges. My ex-wife denied that it was her daughter who was breaking into our house and even said that we should absolutely press charges if we caught whoever was doing it.
[00:04:32] Mm-Hmm. So before we went on that last vacation together, we changed all the locks and security codes, secured all of the windows, and installed additional security cameras. My ex stepdaughter was invited to come with us on this vacation, but she couldn't get the time off of work. Right before we left, she was fired from her job for stealing.
[00:04:50] Oh boy. Here we go. On the second day of the trip, our pet sitter told us that someone had gone into our house between her visits. We checked the cameras and saw that it was, in fact, my ex stepdaughter. She used a key and the new security code that one of my kids gave to her. She disabled the visible cameras, but the hidden ones caught her stealing from us.
[00:05:11] This time we showed my ex the video of her daughter in our house. Instead of being remorseful, she started a fight with me and she and her husband flew home. The next day. My ex stepdaughter continued to deny breaking into our house even though we had video evidence. Wow. So there is a strong streak of denial in this family, at least on the mom's side.
[00:05:31] Jordan Harbinger: Just imagine how in denial you have to be. Or how clouded by drugs and seemingly immune from consequences. You have to think you are to look at literal camera footage of yourself or your own child stealing and go, Nope, that's not her, or that's not me. It actually reminds me of a, I guess you could say funny story, when I was in the law school and I was doing the legal clinic, which is basically where you're a lawyer for people who can't pay.
[00:05:58] I had this client who had robbed and I say allegedly robbed a convenience store, and they had him on video, of course, robbing the store, and we looked at him and we're like, you need to plead guilty. You know, you're on video. And he's like, no, it wasn't me. And I was like, really, bro? You're gonna pull the shaggy defense when you're on video robbing a convenience store with no mask on.
[00:06:18] It was just insane. And he, wow. Just thought, okay, well I'm gonna deny it. And I'm like, look man, I'm your lawyer in this case. You gotta plead guilty because otherwise you're gonna go through a trial. They're gonna find you guilty based on this video evidence, and they're gonna give you a harsher sentence.
[00:06:31] Right? This is kind of sad. He thought. No, you're part of the system. You're trying to trick me. Mm-Hmm. I don't trust the system. I'm gonna plead not guilty because then there's a chance I can convince the jury that it wasn't me. And I'm just like, I remember thinking, I know that you're a complete moron. I.
[00:06:47] But you're not going to convince anybody because even Stevie Wonder can see that this is you robbing a convenience store. You literally have to hope that nobody can see the video evidence and that we can suppress it, which we definitely can't
[00:07:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: do. Even that story makes more sense than what is happening here, because on some level he might have been like, yeah, it's me, but I don't wanna believe this lawyer who's part of the system that I don't trust.
[00:07:09] It's hard to imagine being at this level of denial, or maybe she's just so proud that she can't admit she was wrong. But that's gotta speak also to the severity of this daughter's addiction and how protective her mom must
[00:07:21] Jordan Harbinger: be of her. Yeah. I'm starting to see. How enabling this mom must have been like, oh, you got arrested for drugs for the 13th time.
[00:07:28] Well, she said it wasn't her, and I believe her. She's my daughter. Like, okay, you're just part of the problem now. Yeah, you're
[00:07:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: defensive. I mean, she's very defensive about the reality of her daughter's situation and that's gotta be very threatening. Delusional. Delusional as well. But it's probably because it's very threatening to her to admit that her daughter did this terrible thing.
[00:07:46] Right. So her only option, I guess, in her mind is to project that shame and sadness back onto her ex-husband by getting mad at him, which is very
[00:07:54] Jordan Harbinger: sad. Which also sounds like, like you said, why they got divorced. 'cause you can't reason with somebody like this.
[00:07:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: How do you reason with something? Yeah. That's breakdown of communication from the get-go.
[00:08:04] So the letter goes on, I've forgiven my ex stepdaughter numerous times and paid for half of her rehab programs even after the divorce. I've always just wanted her to get better. We even gave her a chance to just give everything back and stay out of our house. This time. We contacted the police, turned over the videos and pressed charges.
[00:08:23] This enraged. My ex-wife and our amicable relationship was pretty much over at that point. She blamed me for her daughter going to jail for a few months, although that was because she stole from some other people during pretrial and has been vindictive ever since then. Last summer, I took all of the kids to Europe for a month.
[00:08:42] Both my sons seemed very excited about the trip, but two days before we were supposed to leave, my ex-wife told me that my oldest son, who was 17 and has always been very close to her, no longer wanted to live with me and did not want to go on this trip. He wouldn't answer his phone or return my texts the next day.
[00:09:01] I asked him to please tell me what was going on and how I could fix things, but all he would say was, I want Mom over and over. Hmm. I knew my ex-wife was manipulating him. To say I was hurt is an understatement. I. So my middle son and daughter went on the trip without him. We had a great time, but I missed him and the trip felt a little empty without him there.
[00:09:24] A couple months later, my son agreed to meet with me if his younger brother was there. He couldn't explain why he felt the way he did or give any examples of what I did to upset him. My middle son pointed out that he was being ridiculous. My oldest son also dropped out of all sports and extracurriculars, decided not to attend his graduation and has stopped attending any of his siblings games or events.
[00:09:44] He won't answer his phone or return my texts. Since then, my middle son has told me that he would rather live at my house full-time instead of going back and forth between homes. My current wife is distraught and sometimes blames herself even though she did nothing to create the situation. She feels I should try to work things out with my oldest son as soon as possible and not let this drag on any longer.
[00:10:06] Meanwhile, his mother feels that I should continue to pay child support for him after he graduates from high school, even though he's not going to college. My business partner feels I should cut him off completely and no longer pay for his phone, car, insurance, gym, membership, et cetera. I intended to continue paying for these things until my kids get themselves established.
[00:10:24] I also saved money to pay for my kids' college expenses. If they don't go to college, I'll still give them the money as long as they're not just sitting on the couch playing video games and inebriating themselves. Do I continue trying to reach out to my oldest son or do I wait for him to come around if he's not talking to me, do I still support him or do I cut him off?
[00:10:46] Signed a pater, debating whether to cater or pull back and let this relationship crater because of my ex, a famous manipulator.
[00:10:54] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay. So there's a lot going on here. There sure is. Whew. It's so interesting how this letter started off with your ex stepdaughter stealing from you, and then it became about your oldest son pulling away.
[00:11:06] Mm-Hmm. But clearly the two are connected. Your ex is very protective of her daughter, in addition to being vindictive and manipulative. And that's kind of generous according to you. Right. And all this seems to be payback for confronting her with the evidence of her daughter stealing, which is well, incredibly petty, totally unnecessary, and just very, very sad for all of you.
[00:11:26] And by the way, I know that having your home broken into a super violating all the more because it was a family member. Mm-hmm. You've gone above and beyond in helping your stepdaughter try to get clean. I think you did the right thing by pressing charges. Honestly, at some point, she has to face the consequences of what sounds like a serious addiction.
[00:11:42] She stole from her own family, brazenly, unapologetically, multiple times, as well as her employer and these other people. And other people who've given her a chance. Right. It's just horrible. My heart goes out to her because substance abuse is a disease and she's obviously struggling, but it also sounds like she's hurting people and, and not doing much to help herself.
[00:12:03] So yeah, at some point the best thing you can do is go to prison and get clean and realize like you can't keep getting away with it. And Gabe, I can't help but think that mom has tried to protect and shield her from every possible consequence of her actions for her whole life. And that's why she's in this mess right now in the first place.
[00:12:19] Probably. I'm not blaming mom for her daughter getting addicted to drugs or something like that. That can happen for multiple reasons. Mm-hmm. But there's a reason she hasn't gone to prison as say a teenager or young adults and is just now finally getting the book thrown at her. And it's because mommy shielded her.
[00:12:36] And so she was like, great, my mom's just gonna hook it up. That's probably true. So look, I know we're only getting your version of events here, but it sounds to me like you love your children. You're a very generous and involved father. You've done a lot to keep your family together. Again, you might be spinning some facts or leaving certain things out, but you do seem to be the more responsible party here.
[00:12:56] The whole thing with your ex's daughter. Well, it's insane, but it does tell you a lot about your ex-wife's pressure points, how she must see herself. It sounds like, and I know this is overused, but it sounds like there's some narcissism there. Like her ego would just be so compromised if she acknowledged the truth about her daughter after lying to herself about her addiction for so long.
[00:13:17] Mm-Hmm. And that really tells you how difficult this person must be. Your ex-wife lives in a different reality of her own creation. Like I said before, I'm not sure you can have any sort of rational conversation with somebody like that, which brings us to your son. So again, we only have your version of events to go on here.
[00:13:34] Part of me does wonder if there might be other aspects of your relationship, things you did or said or didn't do or say or other events apart from the ones in your letter, something that would explain why he seems to have turned on you or why he was so easily influenced by his mom. But even your middle son was like, dude, just explain what your problem is with dad.
[00:13:53] And he just had nothing came up dry. Which, hello? You can't articulate one thing. I don't know, man. I don't wanna insult your son. He's young and easily manipulated. I guess I'll, I'll leave it there. It really does seem to paint a picture of a kid who's being guided, manipulated by mom. Parental alienation is a real thing.
[00:14:12] And this sounds like a textbook case of that.
[00:14:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: It sure does. I'm also concerned about why your older son is so easily manipulated that might speak to his mom's powers when it comes to him. But I'm also guessing that he doesn't quite think for himself and he's probably kind of scared. I mean, look, saying I want mom, I want mom, I want mom over and over again.
[00:14:33] At 17 years old in a relatively low stress situation. It's not like he was being attacked or something terrible was happening that also paints a picture. And it must be easier for him to just cut you off than to sit down and really talk this out. Right?
[00:14:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Well, talking this out would mean being vulnerable, right?
[00:14:51] And being willing to hear new information that might overwhelm him even further, and then having to admit that he was wrong. Yes.
[00:14:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is actually very interesting because that's precisely what his mother does, right? She can't acknowledge that she was wrong about her daughter and their oldest son might also find it hard to acknowledge that he was wrong about dad.
[00:15:09] I just think that's interesting.
[00:15:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, he did say that he's always been close with his mom, so that tells me he's probably much more identified with her. And so more easily persuaded.
[00:15:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: And they might have similar personalities as
[00:15:20] Jordan Harbinger: well, right? Yeah. Which means our friend hears up against a lot. Mm-Hmm. My hope is that with more time, more perspective, more maturity, your son looks at all this in a new way and he becomes more open to having a relationship with you again.
[00:15:33] He might be enthralled to his mother right now, especially because he's not going to college. He's not forming his own identity, which probably means he's lugging around at home, staying close with her. It seems like he's probably playing video games all day or something, and he needs to grow up a little more before he's ready to consider a new angle on you and his mom.
[00:15:51] So do you continue to reach out to your oldest son or do you wait for him to come around? Well, my advice is to keep the door open by periodically checking in on him, letting him know that you love him and that there's no pressure or timeline, but you're ready to talk whenever he is. My gut is telling me that you won't get very far by pressing the issue if he's not engaging whatsoever.
[00:16:11] You need to play the long game here. You need to create a relationship where he feels safe coming to you when he's ready to talk again and stay open to spending time with him, inviting him to dinner with the family, making small talk, you know, ease back into a relationship. Even if you guys don't resolve everything immediately.
[00:16:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's exactly right. And I'm extra concerned about him because he's dropping out of all these other parts of his life. You know, he didn't go to graduation. He is not gonna his siblings games. He is not participating in his life the way he used to, his extracurriculars, et cetera. That worries me too, because I don't think his mom, well, who knows what she's telling him or what she's doing, but it seems like his mom's agenda primarily is to alienate him from dad, not to encourage him to not participate in any area of his life.
[00:16:50] So does this speak to some depression in the sun or some withdrawing from life in general? I'm worried about that in some ways, even more than this. 'cause I feel like it all hangs together and paints another picture. So if you can keep him involved in his life in some way, that would also be really wonderful.
[00:17:06] Now, your wife's instinct to work things out with him as soon as possible, I'm sure that's well intentioned and I get it. I'm not sure that's very realistic. I mean, after all, your son has to be willing to work things out with you. Otherwise, this will just be a one-sided conversation, and it might even end up feeling like you are now pushing or manipulating him.
[00:17:23] And the last thing you want is to inadvertently recreate your ex's dynamic with him, even if you are the one who's right. So while I wish your wife's dream scenario played out, I don't know if it has that much bearing on the situation. It's not very likely your best option and, and really your only option in my opinion, is to continue to love and support him from afar in the way that Jordan is describing, and let him know that you are not going anywhere.
[00:17:45] And that might not feel like progress, but I actually think it's crucial.
[00:17:49] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. Over time, that'll seep in because in six months or a year, whenever this clicks for him, he might wake up one day and go, huh, okay. I can't really explain why I am so angry at dad, even though mom really wants me to be angry at dad.
[00:18:04] And she's always telling me what a bad guy he is. But he's texted me every single week for the last nine months saying that he loves me and he's available to hear me out. So maybe that says something. Maybe I should take him up on that. Especially if mom pulls some shit and he's like frustrated with her.
[00:18:17] Mm-hmm. And then he's like, oh, you know there's gonna be an epiphany at some point because your ex is with anyone who's the manipulator. She's gonna fumble this at some point. She's gonna do something weird to your son or turn on him somehow and he's gonna go. Oh, oh, this is what everyone's talking about.
[00:18:35] Hmm. Oh, okay. Right now, she's probably going way out of her way to stay on his good side. Here's a new PlayStation. Here's your favorite food. You can do whatever you want. Stay up late. You don't have to get a job. Take your time, find yourself. You don't have to go to school, but at some point that's gonna stop and she's gonna try and manipulate him into doing other things, and he's gonna bump up against it.
[00:18:55] And you wanna be nearby when that happens, because otherwise he's got nowhere else to go.
[00:18:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. Good point now about whether you should keep supporting him financially. That is a tricky one because if you keep supporting him, you might end up validating his treatment of you and you might indirectly validate his mother's manipulation of him.
[00:19:12] I do think it's interesting that your ex is pushing you to keep paying child support after he turns 18 when he doesn't seem to have any meaningful plans at the moment. Yeah.
[00:19:20] Jordan Harbinger: Look, I hate to say this, but I get the sense that she's taking some advantage of his generosity. Surprise, surprise, right? I mean, he took them on multiple vacations after the divorce, which like I said, super sweet, but he also paid for half of her daughter's rehab multiple times.
[00:19:37] He's spending a lot of money on his son who doesn't have a real plan. I don't know, just considering all these things together. Mm-Hmm. I worry that his ex is relying on him a little too much. He's juicing him is what I
[00:19:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: think I. It's a fair point, but on the other hand, if you cut your son off now you might send the signal that you're punishing him somehow, that you only support him if he plays by your rules.
[00:19:58] You know, like even maybe sending the signal that your love is conditional and that's no good either. So your best bet is probably to continue to help him out, if that feels fair, if that's sustainable. But I would be very thoughtful about the forms that that help ends up taking, because this is another really interesting aspect of your story, the ways in which you communicate your love.
[00:20:18] To Jordan's point, you are remarkably generous. These vacations, these experiences, the college money, the support, even if they don't go to college, all of this is incredibly kind and it's clearly helped bring you and your family together, which is wonderful. But I also wonder if that love language, if you wanna call it that, if that maybe came with any other messages.
[00:20:40] And look, I am speculating here. I know, but when Dad takes the whole family, including his ex-wife and her new husband on vacation. When he offers to pay for his kids' lifestyle, even if they're not in school or have a plan, all of that, is it possible that that made them think that dad only communicates through these gifts, or did it maybe send the message that he will happily spend money on them, but he isn't always able to be in deeper communication with them, including digging into any conflicts that come up like the one that is playing out in this very
[00:21:10] Jordan Harbinger: letter?
[00:21:11] That's an interesting theory. So you mean like, is dad. Buying their love, not intentionally or anything, but is that sort of like you said, the love language in the house? Mm, I
[00:21:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: don't know about buying their love. I don't really get the sense that that's what he's doing. I guess what I mean is there's clearly a theme here of spending a lot of money generously including on people who might not always deserve it, and people who might not be totally appropriate for him to support.
[00:21:35] Like his ex stepdaughter, you know, who has been to rehab multiple times and stolen from him sounds like three times. So, mm-hmm. I'm just wondering what spending money means to him. How does he use money to relate to his kids or create these experiences and have these amazing gifts become a kind of currency in his family, even if the money is this really beautiful thing in their lives.
[00:21:57] That's what I'm saying. I see.
[00:21:58] Jordan Harbinger: So has that currency shaped his relationship with his oldest son, or does it maybe make it hard for his son to come right out and tell him what's bothering him? I don't know
[00:22:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: exactly. Yes. Especially because he's asking, do I keep paying for my son's life? So this might be a nice opportunity to think about the specific ways you want to support your son and also your other children, and whether all of these ways of helping are really encouraging him to become the most successful person he can be, and also the most independent person he can be because becoming independent and thriving on his own, apart from mom, I actually think that that would be very, very helpful to him right now.
[00:22:32] And then he might be able to get some distance and not be beholden to one parent too much. That could actually be the thing that eventually brings you back together.
[00:22:40] Jordan Harbinger: Right. When he has a job in his own apartment, and he talks about this with people who don't have the same biases, he might suddenly go, oh, I might've picked the wrong parent here.
[00:22:49] Or at least, oh, I don't need to cut off one parent to make the other parent happy. That's unhealthy.
[00:22:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or, I have some feelings about dad that I need to work through, but I don't have to punish him or isolate myself in order to do that. Exactly
[00:23:01] Jordan Harbinger: right. But those thoughts are probably very hard to entertain when mom is taking up a lot of real estate.
[00:23:06] Yes. Psychological real estate in his life. Mm-Hmm. We should also differentiate between paying for your kids' necessities and paying your ex-wife for child support. Look, people have different opinions on this, but I think you have to be careful about withdrawing the first one, just because you've set the pattern of doing it in the past.
[00:23:23] The child support is way more sus because it sounds like your ex-wife might just be using him as a weapon to get you to foot the bill, right? He's an adult now. He's not going to college, so my feeling is he should get a job or find some kind of direction, and it sounds like she almost doesn't want him to do that because then he's more reliant on her, but then she's like, oh, but he's expensive.
[00:23:44] Let me see if I can manipulate dad or Force Dad into paying for me to be able to keep his son from him. That's what this sounds like, but I think if you stop paying for his cell phone and stuff like that, then it's almost like. Well, if you don't talk to me, I'm not paying for, you know, you don't want that vibe set up.
[00:24:01] I am sorry that you're going through this. Really. I am. I can only imagine how painful it must be to have a child not talk to you. I would be crushed if Jayden did that to me, and this might suck for a while. You might have to be patient. You'll have to bear the sadness of not being in touch with your son for a little while, really.
[00:24:16] And knowing that his mom is just pulling the strings and filling his head with all sorts of crap. It's awful. But there are a few bright spots here, namely your relationship with your middle son and your daughter. That all sounds really special. Another huge bright spot. Your current wife who sounds so different from your ex.
[00:24:35] All of this is a nice reminder to be even more grateful for that relationship. I mean, I am trying to imagine Gabriel going on a vacation and you bring your wife and she's like, yeah, we're gonna go to Europe. And you're like, yeah, I'm gonna bring my ex-wife and her new husband. Mm-Hmm. And your wife's just like, okay, I get it.
[00:24:52] It's about the kids. Amazing. Give that woman a a kiss, a fat kiss on the lips for putting
[00:24:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: up with that shit. I mean, all of them really. They all deserve credit for that. I think it's beautiful. Yeah, it
[00:25:02] Jordan Harbinger: really is. Also your ex-wife's husband. We didn't talk about that guy. He's just a footnote. But he's probably an okay guy.
[00:25:09] 'cause I don't know if I'd be like, yeah, you wanna go on vacation with your ex-husband and he's gonna pay for it. That's totally normal and cool. Let's do that. It might be awkward. He might feel emasculated because of that. Instead he's just like, I'm playing the game because of the family.
[00:25:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: How fun would it be though, to be a fly on the wall in their family vacation in the hotel room?
[00:25:27] Jordan Harbinger: I'm so curious if he's also being manipulated and run ragged by this manipulative
[00:25:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: ex-wife. Or is he like, oh, he wants to take us to Vienna for six weeks? Sure. Why
[00:25:36] Jordan Harbinger: not? Sure. I'm a freeloader. I'll do it. Yeah,
[00:25:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: it could go either way. Yeah, it makes you
[00:25:39] Jordan Harbinger: wonder. So look, keep investing in the parts of your life that are working really well.
[00:25:44] This situation with your older son, it will resolve at some point as long as you stand by. You keep yourself a safe place, a safe person. You keep that door wide open without too much anger or judgment. What you don't want is for him to have to come to the conclusion slash admit that he was stupid and screwed up.
[00:26:02] When he changes his mind and comes back, you want it to be okay for him to go, oh man, I kind of messed this up, but my dad's totally going to get it and not throw it in my face for the next 10 years. Mm-Hmm. If he gets that vibe, if that's the dynamic that's gonna make things a hundred times harder, this is like the advice we give when people are in a cult, right?
[00:26:20] Don't make it so that if they come back, you're gonna shame them. They have to be like, the cult was a bad idea and I'm an idiot, mom. Yes you are. I told you so. No, I told you. Sos just open arms. That's it. Sending you and your family a big hug and I hope that you and your son reconcile soon. And also that you've changed the security code on your house would be probably a A good idea.
[00:26:40] Yeah. And
[00:26:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: that your kids don't give it out anymore. I was gonna say we didn't touch on that. And how did that happen? It makes you wonder, although it also incriminates her even further. So
[00:26:48] Jordan Harbinger: manipulative nonsense. Right? The sister was probably like, oh, your dad, you know, just in case there's an emergency. Oh yeah.
[00:26:53] The code's 2, 7, 5 4. I mean, they're probably like 13 or 12. They don't know if
[00:26:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: I ever just wanna come over and maybe walk fluffy and check on the house and they're like, oh, that's nice of you. Wait a second. But they knew about the last two break-ins because they lived there presumably. Surely
[00:27:07] Jordan Harbinger: they did. So that's my reservation is like, how are you even anything older than
[00:27:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: like eight.
[00:27:12] Right? It's possible that they were much younger when those earlier break-ins happened. It's possible they were
[00:27:16] Jordan Harbinger: young and they also believed that the sister didn't do it, even though everybody, right. Maybe they didn't tell the kids, your junkie sister broke into the house. It could just be someone broke in.
[00:27:25] And we don't have proof and we're not admitting that Angela robbed us twice. Who knows. Speaking of using money to express your love, how about a word from our sponsors? We'll be right back.
[00:27:38] This episode is sponsored in part by Northern Knives. Now I usually, I, I don't think I've ever had a knife sponsor, but this company is so awesome. They're show fans and they've reached out and I thought, I love knives. Nothing beats a good blade. I know that sounds a little bit, maybe, uh, there should be a banjo playing in the background, but seriously, cutlery, axes, tools.
[00:27:56] I have like 15 knives. Now, this place is a treasure trove for anybody who appreciates quality and craftsmanship. They're a hundred percent Alaskan business through and through women owned. They have their own brand called Three Dog Knife, and these are really good knives. Like if you go on Reddit and you look in the knife forum, they're recommending this brand and this store.
[00:28:14] All the time. And they don't just sell knives. They have a full machine shop that can do it all. They can modify knives, they can s coat the blades, they can sharpen, of course they can re-file knives professionally. So basically if you have an old knife that's not great anymore, you should send it to them.
[00:28:26] And, and if you want a great new blade, you should definitely go to northern knives.com and check 'em out. I just love this place. I'm on this website like every day now. And I love the business so much. I requested a discount code. So go to northern knives.com. Use code Jordan for 10% off and free shipping.
[00:28:41] Support this amazing Alaskan knife. firstname.lastname@example.org code Jordan. This episode is also sponsored by Clean Shot X. I've got something really cool for all your Mac users out there. It's a productivity powerhouse that I use every single day. I give it to Jen 'cause I was like, look at this tool. It's called Clean Shot X.
[00:28:57] This tool totally simplifies screenshots, screen recording annotations and more. So basically look, you take a screenshot and right there you can tweak it by adding notes. You can circle stuff on it, you can highlight important stuff. And the best part is you can directly paste it into an email or a text message and you don't have to save it as a file first.
[00:29:14] And also that just scratches the surface. You can also upload stuff to the cloud and then just share a link. If you can't put the image directly in the thing, you can do videos, you can make it an animated gif. If you wanna do something that's not quite as formal as a video, I'm actually not even getting paid to tell you about Clean Shot X.
[00:29:27] I just love it. I wanted to reach out to them and snag a discount code for you guys because I put it on every machine in the house my whole family uses is use the code Jordan to get 10% off or give it a whirl risk free. They offer a 30 day money back guarantee. Trust me, you're gonna love this tool if you ever do anything on your computer that requires you to show other people stuff.
[00:29:43] Just go to clean shot.com. 10% off with code. Jordan, thank you for listening to and supporting this show. Your support of our advertisers does keep us going. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Or email me, I'll surface a code for you. It's that important.
[00:30:01] email@example.com. Alright, now back to feedback Friday. Alright, what's
[00:30:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I was laid off from my job after 14 years last year. After two months of applications, resume rewrites, interviews and networking, I finally got a job offer for $60,000 more than I was making, and a double step up for position level in the corporation with no other gainful employment and my last 2000 in the bank, I accepted the offer.
[00:30:31] All in all, a great move for me personally. Wow. That
[00:30:35] Jordan Harbinger: is amazing. Well, can you imagine the feeling when you have your last two grand in the bank and no other irons in the fire and someone's like, here's a job. Oh, and by the way, it pays 60 grand more than your last job. I hope that's okay
[00:30:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: with you. That must have been such a great day.
[00:30:49] That was the greatest.
[00:30:50] Jordan Harbinger: Going out to lunch after that phone call or, I like it for sure.
[00:30:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: In the history of, in the history of lunches? Correct. Wow. Good for you. But the offer is a couple states over and I have a 16-year-old daughter and I share custody with a less than involved mother.
[00:31:04] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, okay. Yeah, this
[00:31:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: is tough.
[00:31:07] At first, my daughter was excited to go, but worried how her mom would react. Since then, she's decided that she would rather graduate with her current school. Early on in my discussions with her, I told her that she was more important to me than a title or money, and she was safe to make a decision that's best for her.
[00:31:24] I haven't gotten any other offers, and I'm supposed to start with this new company next week. They said they were flexible and when I would have to be in state and that I could start remotely. I'm giving myself an ulcer. If I follow through and relocate, I'm effectively telling my daughter she isn't as important as money and I break my word to her.
[00:31:43] If I work but try to remain remote without intending to relocate, I feel I'll lose this opportunity and have a black spot on my resume. Although once my daughter graduates in 18 months, I would absolutely relocate. What's the best way to approach this with the company? Is there a chance I can salvage the job through regular travel and being super available remotely?
[00:32:02] How would I go about that conversation with my boss signed stuck between being her rock and a hard
[00:32:08] Jordan Harbinger: place? Ooh, yeah, good question. I totally get the binder you're in and I'm sorry you have to make this choice. This is a huge step up, 60 grand's, nothing to sneeze at, and it's extra compelling after this really tough period professionally, but then you have your daughter to think about.
[00:32:23] So. I think you're dead on that. If you accept the job and relocate, you're effectively telling your daughter she isn't as important as money. And you did go on record saying you're more important to me than a title or salary. So for you to take this job would then seem like maybe you're going back on your word and at her age, that could play a big role in her trust in you, her feelings about you, the quality of your relationship as a whole.
[00:32:47] So in a way, this decision is very simple. I think you gotta choose your daughter. And one way to assess this would be fast forward a couple years or you know, 30 years, and ask yourself, would I rather have that title in the extra 120 grand or what? I rather have two more years with my daughter. Given what you shared, I'm pretty sure you'd say your daughter, however.
[00:33:08] Before people get mad and send us emails, there's one big bright spot here. This whole start remotely and move out here when you can. Thing. Mm-Hmm. So here's what I would do. This is maybe a little professional dark Jordan coming out. Accept the offer. Tell your new company you need a couple months to sort things out at home and plan for the move because you got a kid and you gotta change schools and all that stuff.
[00:33:27] Then while you're working remotely, just slay it in your new job. Put in a lot of extra hours. Overdeliver in every conceivable way. Exceed your goals. Make a real effort to get to know your teammates and the higher ups. Build great relationships with them. Just knock it outta the freaking park. Then at the two month marker, whatever it is, ask for a few minutes with your boss and tell 'em that your circumstances have changed somewhat.
[00:33:54] Your daughter wants to stay. You thought she was gonna come with you. It was all signed and settled. And as a father who also loves his job and wants to be a great professional, you're just stuck. And at that point. I think this is gonna be a very different conversation. It's not gonna be, Hey, I'm a candidate who can't come out there.
[00:34:10] It's gonna be, look, if you kill it up until then, this company might be so psyched about you that they're willing to let you stay remote, or you fly out once a month, or you do two years of remote work and then you move. Or the prospect of you quitting and them having to interview a bunch more people and then hire a new person and train them.
[00:34:27] And they might not do as well as you, and they probably won't do as well as you. That's gonna be so onerous that they're just gonna go, okay, fine. Stay remote. Look, it's working out. Fly out for all hands meetings and major events. Let's revisit this in a year. Mm-Hmm. So that's what I would do. The job sounds amazing and if you really put in the work, you might just get everything you want here.
[00:34:48] Sometimes, man, the best move is just to say yes to the immediate next step and just trust that the later step will sort itself out. Or you're gonna find a clever way to change the equation somehow. I'm not saying con your way into something and lie, but I think you can cover this here. I
[00:35:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: totally agree.
[00:35:02] That is exactly what I would do too. Worst case scenario, I mean what they say? No, and he says, okay, I hear you. I'm really sorry, but I have to prioritize my daughter, which sucks, and it might be a gap on his resume that he needs to explain, but he has the perfect explanation. My daughter needed me. I mean, who's not gonna understand that?
[00:35:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, not just understand it, but maybe even like him more for that 'cause it, you know, it humanizes him. I agree. The
[00:35:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: only unusual thing that jumped out at me was when he said that at first his daughter was excited to move, but she was worried about how her mom would react her less than involved mom at that.
[00:35:34] And then later she decided that she wanted to stay. Okay. So I might be hypersensitive to this detail because of question one today, but I'm a little worried about whether his daughter is deciding to stay, to make her mom happy, or to avoid making her mom mad rather than choosing to live with the parents she really wants to be with.
[00:35:51] Now look, she's 16 years old. It can be so hard at that age to tell your own mother, sorry, I'm moving with dad to another state. Also, that's a huge move for anybody I can understand, wanting to stay in the same school with the same friends. I get it. And maybe she genuinely loves her mom probably does, and maybe her mom is great, even if she's not the most present parent.
[00:36:11] I'm not saying this woman is a villain or anything, but since this whole problem got created when the daughter changed her mind, and one way to solve it would be for the daughter to move with our friend here, I do think it's worth considering whether she made the right decision for the right reasons and not because you know, her mom is in her head or she's afraid to be honest with her.
[00:36:30] That's a good
[00:36:30] Jordan Harbinger: point. I could see that going either way. He did say you are safe to make the decision that's right for you. So maybe she really did. But if he's about to lose an amazing opportunity because his daughter feels beholden to her mother, especially when her mother isn't as involved in her life as he is.
[00:36:45] That would be a shame. It
[00:36:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: would. But then again, moving across the country at 16 years old or moving a few states over, even starting over like that is a big deal. And I would completely understand if she really didn't want to do that. Her mom aside.
[00:36:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, also true. So I say, take the job, knock it outta the park, then ask for more flexibility, and if they won't accommodate you, I would then pitch some creative solutions.
[00:37:07] Maybe you fly out once or twice a month, maybe you put in some FaceTime, or you stay out there for a week each month somehow, I don't know. Or you end up moving and use the extra 60 KA year to fly back regularly to see your daughter. Also, not a bad
[00:37:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: plan B, also totally doable given that it's only two states over.
[00:37:24] It's not across the country or across the ocean. I mean, it's probably a two hour flight. Totally. Yeah, it's not a
[00:37:29] Jordan Harbinger: big deal. You could book it the day before. It's probably gonna be like 200 bucks. Congrats on landing this amazing offer, man. I'm super pumped for you, but I'm even more pumped by the kind of dad that you seem to be.
[00:37:40] So good luck and congrats on the promotion. You can reach us firstname.lastname@example.org. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that does make our job a whole lot easier. If your shrink tried to hit on you, your vice principal's asking for your girlfriend's nudes, or you're wondering whether to come clean to your partner about all your affairs after going through a series of crises, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up email@example.com.
[00:38:03] We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, next up.
[00:38:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabriel, ever since I was young, networking and building relationships has made me uncomfortable and I've always felt like I was inconveniencing people by contacting them. Huh,
[00:38:19] Jordan Harbinger: interesting. I've met a lot of people over the years who struggle with the exact same thing.
[00:38:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: I believe this stems from growing up with a sister who was, to put it nicely, a handful. She and my mother would get into screaming matches over stupid things like my sister not liking what she got for Christmas, or my mom asking my sister to spray paint her school project in the garage and not in the house.
[00:38:41] That spray paint argument got so bad that my sister ran after my mother with scissors. I remember not being able to sleep that night because I was so worried about what my sister might do to her. Ugh. The stress in the house was so intense because we never knew if my sister was gonna be chill or go off the deep end.
[00:38:58] When she eventually moved away, things seemed to get better just by her not being there. And my family never talked about any of these issues. I tried to maintain a relationship with my sister, but she would move between being really cool and bringing up things from the past. She was mad at me for, for example, she would constantly bring up the fact that I wasn't able to be her mate of honor because I had been accepted into the police academy during the wedding planning phase.
[00:39:22] The 16 month program was only offered twice a year. It required me to stay overnight without access to internet and limited access to the phone, and I was hired by my agency before my sister announced her wedding plans. I was still a bridesmaid in the wedding, but after the wedding, she told me I should have turned down the academy offer.
[00:39:39] She's also gotten angry about me not helping her take care of her kids enough. Going out with a friend one night while I was visiting her, even though she and her whole family were sick in bed and moving out of my home state six years ago because she thought it was selfish of me. Wow.
[00:39:55] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, okay. Again, we only have your side of things to go on here, but these facts are pretty stark.
[00:40:00] It sounds to me like your sister is ridiculously self-absorbed, quite petty, fairly unstable. She's hot and cold, she's unpredictable. She pops off at random moments and she doesn't seem very understanding of your goals, your needs. It's just a tough sibling to
[00:40:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: have. I mean, maybe there's another version, another side to these little anecdotes you shared, but getting mad at your sibling for moving out of the state to pursue her own life because it's not close to you anymore.
[00:40:27] I mean, I, I think that kind of tells you everything you need to know. Looney Tunes, I. Now, the only time she'll communicate with me is by posting a comment to my social media to criticize me for a choice I made. I have since blocked her. Well, that's unfortunate. But yeah, if your sister is picking fights with you in your Facebook comments publicly in front of all your friends about stuff she doesn't approve, that might be the right move.
[00:40:48] Ugh. Insane. She goes on. Because my sister was always so volatile, I tried my best to not create waves with my parents. I didn't bring up any problems I was having, and I handled them on my own because I didn't want to add to their stress load. They had enough to deal with already with her. As a result, I think that caused me to do the same with other people in my life.
[00:41:10] Yep. Bingo. For example, if I've had to reschedule with people because life got busy and I repeatedly attempted to make plans with them, eventually I would just stop trying because I didn't want to inconvenience them by adding more to their, to-do list. Oh man, that's, that's sad.
[00:41:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that is sad. It's a
[00:41:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: sad thing to hear.
[00:41:28] You feel like you're an item on their to-do list. This childhood definitely did a number on you and, yeah, we gotta talk about that. We'll get into it. She goes on. I have two friends I always get together with when I go home, but since I've moved, I don't feel like I've made any close friends. When I do attempt to get together with people who could be good friends, we always end up rescheduling over and over, and then I just give up trying after a while.
[00:41:53] Recently I started making more of an effort to keep in touch with past coworkers and friends, only to have plans canceled and later find that they've been in contact with each other. I feel forgotten and it hurts. What am I doing wrong? How do I work on this? Signed a conflicted connector fighting the specter of being a master deflector, which.
[00:42:14] She learned from her early protectors when all she wants is for people not to neglect her. Okay?
[00:42:20] Jordan Harbinger: I don't wanna comment on that one, but I'm starting to warm. But there's a comment forming in the nebula of the back of my brain here. Alright, another great question. And I love how clearly you see your childhood, this difficult dynamic with your sister.
[00:42:35] Mm-Hmm, your parents, the ways in which you denied your own needs in order to make things easier on them, and how all of this is affecting your relationships. Now you're halfway to solving this just by having a good grasp of the roots of this pattern. So first of all, I'm really sorry that you grew up having this tumultuous relationship with your sister, and my heart goes out to her too, because it sounds quite stressful to be your sister.
[00:42:59] So she obviously has some unresolved stuff herself and possibly some personality issues, and I would imagine that just must make all of her relationships very chaotic. Everything you described, everything makes perfect sense. You already know this, but let's just take a moment to appreciate that. The way you became the good child, the easy child, was by keeping your needs super minimal, solving as many problems as you could on your own, keeping things on an even keel with your parents because your sister was like a fly on the ointment to say the least You did this so you could spare them your inconvenient feelings.
[00:43:32] And I say inconvenient of course, in air quotes, so that you could secure their love and protection. All children do this to some degree. Some have to do it a lot more in certain families, especially ones where there's an extremely difficult and chaotic person in the house who takes up a lot of psychological space.
[00:43:48] You know what this reminds me of? Gabe? Did you ever see Breaking Bad? Of course. Yeah. Remember when Jesse goes home to his parents and he is got the little brother
[00:43:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: there? Oh yeah. What was the deal with him again? I don't remember. Is he like a good kid and really accomplished? Yeah,
[00:44:01] Jordan Harbinger: he was great. And he was like this good boy.
[00:44:03] And then later Jesse gets kicked outta the house because they find a joint in a plant or something. Right. And of course, it turns out to be the little brother's joint. Oh wow. And Jesse just takes the fall for it. Mm-Hmm. But they're having this conversation and the little brother's like. What do you mean all mom and dad ever talk about is you?
[00:44:19] Hmm. Because he's like, mom and dad don't love me. I'm the screw up. Right. And he's like, what are you talking about? All they ever talk about is you, and this kid clearly had like sort of formed his whole life around being the good boy because they only talk about how screwed up Jesse was. Interesting.
[00:44:31] That's what this kind of reminds me of. Mm-Hmm. In a different way. Yes. In a different way. Yeah. Just as far as how people restructure their lives around the other sibling to keep the balance in the house. Mm-Hmm. Look, the thing is it wasn't your job to spare your parents your feelings and there was nothing inconvenient about them.
[00:44:48] Children are supposed to be able to rely on their parents to hold their tension, their anxiety, their excitement, their frustration, even their anger at their siblings. Now, I don't know about your parents. Maybe they could have been there for you in that way. Maybe they weren't. But either way you intuited their needs and then you sacrificed your own.
[00:45:07] And when a child cuts off parts of themselves and then shape shifts to make mom and dad comfortable. They usually learn to do that with other family members. And then they do it with their teachers, and they do it with their friends. They do it with their colleagues and then their partners, and even random new people that they meet at the police academy or whatever, and they shut down aspects of their personality that feel intolerable or dangerous and sometimes even shameful because they were never validated and cared for.
[00:45:34] And that's basically how this whole template you're describing gets created. Again. It's very common and something that all adults have to resolve to some degree. It's just more of a thing for you. So here's what I do. First of all, your practice right now, both in your networking and in your life generally, is to start leaning into the experience of quote unquote inconveniencing people.
[00:45:57] And by that, I want you to start playing with the idea of pushing for what you want, pinning people down, expressing your needs and desires a little bit more, and gently speaking up when you're not happy with a certain result. So let's say you're trying to reschedule with one of these prospective friends.
[00:46:11] Maybe you send that third text where you say, sorry, I know we keep rescheduling. Life is crazy, but I'm still actually really excited to get to know you. Talk about work, let's make this happen. Or, Hey, look, I know this might seem weirdly persistent, but I'm really excited to chat. I know we have a ton to talk about.
[00:46:26] You wanna grab a coffee next week or whatever it is. I want you to do this for two reasons. First, being direct and vulnerable like that is generally very effective. And I think people, certainly the people you wanna be building relationships with, they're gonna respond pretty well to that. And if they don't.
[00:46:42] My feeling is they're not your people. Mm. And when you get some positive responses, that'll help you rewrite this fear that you're somehow an inconvenience, 'cause you'll have more data, and that data will show you that the response you fear is not always the response you're gonna get. My hope is that people respond in a new way to you being again, quote unquote, inconvenient.
[00:47:01] You'll find that it's just being secure and honest and appropriately ambitious. That what you're afraid to be in touch with is just your healthy and legitimate needs and interests. Mm-Hmm. Second, and more importantly, I want you to do this so you can find out what that whole inconvenient feeling is all about.
[00:47:17] You've worked so hard to avoid it for so long that it probably feels extremely vulnerable slash scary for you to push for what you want at all to speak up when you're unhappy. But again, what you perceive is too much. That's probably just right. It might not even be enough in some cases. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. I also want you to have the chance to feel what it's like to want something and express it to somebody else.
[00:47:40] Even if it's something as simple as an invitation to coffee and find out that that vulnerability, it's totally
[00:47:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: survivable. Yes. Not just survivable, but enlivening and necessary. I mean, you know, being in touch with these needs and acting on them, that is how we accomplish things and connect with people and, and grow as human beings.
[00:47:58] I also wonder whether this other thing, you're noticing that you end up rescheduling with people over and over, and then you just give up after a while. I wonder whether that might also be informed by the whole, you know, I don't want to be a burden to people thing, and I'm gonna reach here, but let's just play with this idea for a second and see if there's anything to it.
[00:48:15] I wonder, Jordan, if certain people are picking up on this quality in her from the very beginning of their relationship and that's unconsciously informing how they treat her. So for example, let's say you meet a new person, you're interested in being friends with them. You say something like, Hey, I'd love to grab a drink sometime, but you know, if you're super busy or you already have a ton of friends, no worries, I get it.
[00:48:35] I'm super low maintenance. You know, something like that. Or even if you don't actually say those words, but that idea creeps into your body language, your tone of voice, the way you text with people, how often you text them. They might get the subtle message that you are not somebody they should prioritize, because on some level you might not feel that you're someone they should prioritize.
[00:48:56] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, 100%. That is one of many ways that we often create the very outcome that we fear the most, even when we're trying very hard to avoid it. I used to see this all the time with my old coaching clients back in the day. This is the sort of thing that happens when unconscious material remains unconscious.
[00:49:13] We're not aware of it, so we don't know what's operating. So we also then don't realize how these templates are shaping our outcomes.
[00:49:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Now, I don't know if that's the only reason that these plans are getting canceled. There might be other reasons. Maybe you're trying to rekindle friendships with people who are just frankly, kinda lame and flaky and disrespectful, which would be a really, also, by the way, a really interesting thing to notice.
[00:49:34] Jordan Harbinger: potentially also part of this pattern too, right? If she's focusing her energy on people who aren't the most consistent or engaged or attuned to her, maybe that mimics her childhood too.
[00:49:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's a really good point. And also maybe you're approaching these friendships with a lot of expectations, or these people are interested in a different kind of relationship, like one that's kind of flaky and not that consistent, which is fine, but that might just mean that they are not your people.
[00:49:58] That's my feeling when it comes to people like this. Now, here's what's really important. I hear you when you say that you feel forgotten. And it hurts when these people bail on plans and then you hear two weeks later that they were hanging out with each other. That's a real feeling and I imagine that it's also an old feeling for you and I totally get it, and it's really interesting that one detail, in addition to the whole story of your childhood, I.
[00:50:21] That really bonded me to you.
[00:50:23] Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah, me too. It, it's almost like when she takes a chance and opens up about how she really feels.
[00:50:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: She lets people in, right? Yeah.
[00:50:30] Jordan Harbinger: She lets people in and she gives them something to attach to. Yes. Something to relate to. And that's precisely what we're talking about, right?
[00:50:36] Getting more vulnerable, being more in touch with the parts of her that haven't always been available to other people. It's
[00:50:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: also just occurring to me that working as a police officer is a really interesting career to pick for somebody who is very good at suppressing her own needs and very good at reading other people's needs.
[00:50:53] Mm-hmm. And also somebody who's just probably like in general, very mature and controlled and often in charge. I don't wanna psychoanalyze her too much. I know that's kind of annoying, but I think it can be helpful sometimes to appreciate how our jobs often fulfill us in ways that we aren't fulfilled elsewhere.
[00:51:09] Or maybe like in this case, protect us from having experiences we don't want to have elsewhere. Yeah, good
[00:51:14] Jordan Harbinger: point. I bet she's a great cop. But yeah, cops maybe not always known for being super vulnerable and feelingsy, are they? I don't know. Not on the job anyway, but also off the clock
[00:51:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: too. And also, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
[00:51:27] I mean, it might be a superpower in your job, but in your personal life. Yeah, it's probably an obstacle to being fully available to other people. And that might also be playing a role in how these interactions are going. Anyway. Look, I know that this might be a lot to do on your own, so if you're not there already, I would also really encourage you to consider exploring this topic in therapy.
[00:51:46] I was
[00:51:46] Jordan Harbinger: wondering who was gonna bring up therapy first in this episode.
[00:51:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know it ain't a feedback Friday if it doesn't include at least one mention of therapy. Yeah, but look, with a professional, obviously you would have the chance to unpack this childhood, which was very meaningful, this complicated relationship with your sister, which sounds like an ongoing challenge, and again, how all of it is shaping your relationships now.
[00:52:06] But what I'm actually really excited about you going to therapy for is. If you went to therapy, you would get to have a relationship and you would get to have a space where it gets to be all about you and where you can show up to session angry or sad or inspired or needy, literally anything, and have your therapist receive those feelings and be in them with you.
[00:52:28] That is so powerful and it's precisely the opposite of how it was in your family growing up. You know, one of the main benefits of that therapeutic relationship is that you can learn a new kind of relating, and that's often how you rewrite these old patterns. So. Yeah, I would just love for you to have that experience
[00:52:44] Jordan Harbinger: and so would I.
[00:52:45] But look, let's also take stock of the great news here. You have close friends back home. You make a point to visit them. Two close friends as an adult actually is quite a gift. And there are great relationships waiting for you out there. And the fact that you want those friendships, that you're willing to resolve this childhood stuff so you can show up differently in your relationships, that's an amazing sign.
[00:53:05] That means you're ready. Yes. So give this a go. Treat it like a little experiment. Find out what happens when you risk being inconvenient or too much or whatever. You don't have to be a monster. You just have to be like 10% more proactive, 10% needier. Mm-Hmm. See what you get back. It's gonna be great. Good luck.
[00:53:22] You know who won't try to murder you with scissors. Gabriel define products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
[00:53:32] This episode is sponsored by workouts. I've been a fan of workout for years, not just because my friend Curtis founded the company, but because it is significantly impacted my health and fitness journey. They've recently launched something Innovative store by workout that's transforming the wellness industry for all you wellness professionals out there, whether you're a personal trainer, nutritionist, fitness instructor, life coach, any other specialist, you know, how often clients seek your advice on products.
[00:53:55] Store by workout is an amazing app that streamlines this process, enabling you to recommend an extensive range of health, fitness, wellness products directly from your phone. And the best part is you can earn cash for each sale with a 10 to 18% commission, which is far more than what most affiliate programs offer with over 1500 products, including high quality fitness equipment, vitamin supplements, accessories, apparel, store by workout does more than just facilitate recommendations.
[00:54:17] It enhances your client's experience. Simultaneously boost your revenue. Look, you've already been advising clients on what products to use. Now with store by workout, you get paid for it. It's the brilliant way to earn some semi-passive income while doing what you love, helping people achieve their goals.
[00:54:30] So if you're interested in expanding your influence and your growing business checkout store by workout, visit workout.com. That's WKOU t.com. This episode is sponsored in part by momentous Crucial for our wellbeing is quality. Sleep poor sleep's not just about feeling groggy, it actually impacts our lifespan.
[00:54:47] Learn more about this on episode 1 26 with sleep expert Matthew Walker Live. Momentous is a scientifically formulated blend of magnesium apogen altheine. These ingredients work together to help you fall asleep quicker, sleep deeper, wake up a little bit more refreshed. Magnesium three eight I've been taking for a while, targets your brain for relaxation.
[00:55:04] Agen comes critical cognitive areas for deeper rest. L-theanine promotes those soothing alpha brainwaves. I don't know much about brainwaves, but I, I feel, hey, the more, the better. What's great about momentous sleep is its purity. No band substances, no heavy metals, no unnecessary fillers. It's all certified, no Chinese sawdust in there.
[00:55:19] From my experience, it's making a difference in my sleep scores. So if you're looking to upgrade your sleep game, try out momentous sleep. No matter your goal or what you wanna achieve this year, momentous is on a relentless quest. To help you get there, go to live momentous.com and use Code Jordan 20.
[00:55:33] Start your new year with 20 person off sleep and all their best in class products. That's live momentous.com code Jordan 20 for 20% off. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.
[00:55:50] All the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Or like I said, you can email meJordan@jordanharbinger.com. If you're super lazy, I'll dig up the code for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?
[00:56:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. There's a doctor and neuroscientist named Carl Hart, who's a professor of psychology at Columbia University and has some very unconventional beliefs on recreational drug use. He's done tons of media given talks at big conferences, and gone on podcasts like Joe Rogan, where he claims that drugs, specifically heroin, crack cocaine, and crystal meth are actually not that dangerous.
[00:56:33] He claims that when used responsibly, these drugs can enhance a person's life in a variety of ways, such as helping married couples become closer. The claim that stuck out to me the most though, is that heroin withdrawal is largely overblown by the media and that it's more similar to the common cold.
[00:56:50] Having heard these beliefs, I felt it would be a good idea to try snorting heroin, which Dr. Hart claims he does on occasion with no negative effects. I figured it must have been an amazing feeling to make my mom, who was a heroin addict herself and died of an overdose six years ago, completely ignore my dad and me in search of it.
[00:57:11] But guess what? It doesn't feel that great. People say things like, it feels like a kiss from Jesus. No, it just feels mildly pleasurable. Well, I'm now a heroin addict just like my mother was. It's been nine months since I first tried it, and I've lost my job and I'm in the grip of addiction. I've tried to quit, and I can tell you that the withdrawal is the absolute worst physical and mental experience I have ever gone through.
[00:57:38] It feels like the worst flu you've ever had combined with panic attacks, constant full body shaking, and the feeling that you can't move outta the fetal position. This was definitely my fault, as I had convinced myself that the reason my mother's drug use was so severe was that she used Via iv, and Dr.
[00:57:55] Hart says the key is to snort it instead. I know I'm an idiot for believing that, but if someone like me could be persuaded to try a drug by this doctor at Columbia University, I'm sure many other young people could as well. I'm an advanced mechanical engineer, so I'm not intellectually weak, and I grew up seeing the horrors of heroin and crack use.
[00:58:16] I should be the last person to be convinced by these claims. I'm so deeply ashamed by this. The good news is that I'm in outpatient treatment and I'm on my way to sobriety. I really hope that my message can be shared so that other people don't think it's easy to quit. Like Dr. Hart claims signed, finding my way back home after taking some H to the dome.
[00:58:37] Oh wow. That is a wild story. Have you heard of this guy, Jordan? I
[00:58:43] Jordan Harbinger: have, yeah. I was gonna say something other than wild, but yeah, I have heard of this guy and I actually read the book or one of his books. I don't know if he has multiple a while back. And it wasn't that I didn't believe him, although all of my anecdotal experience looking at other people getting off drugs and using drugs didn't match with what he was saying.
[00:59:01] I thought, okay, he's the expert. But I didn't love the message, you know? It didn't seem like the idea that you can just snort heroin casually and do a bunch of cocaine all the time was a good thing to be using my platform for. Mm-Hmm. Like some people thought like, oh, you have this plastics guy on there that's bad.
[00:59:19] You had this, you know, anti Hamas or pro Hamas guy on there that was bad. Imagine a guy who's saying, Hey, just go and snort heroin. I mean, there are kids and young adults listening to this, right? Who I thought. Somebody might decide to try drugs. Mm-Hmm. And then something like this exact scenario that we are reading about in this letter might happen, except it'll be my fault for
[00:59:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: broadcasting this.
[00:59:38] Yeah. Well, it literally happened. I am so sorry that you lost your mom to heroin. Mm-Hmm. That must be so painful. And then that you went through this addiction yourself, which is just so. Incredibly tragic and bizarre. But I mean, I have to say, Jordan, I, I really admire his self-awareness, his accountability.
[00:59:55] Yeah, he sounds very impressive. I, this was not an easy thing to beat, and we don't know what his story is or what's in his family, but if his mother was an addict, you know, maybe he has the gene for it and maybe he's predisposed to being extra, you know, just predisposed to addiction really. And maybe doing heroin a handful of times is all he needed to tap into that predisposition.
[01:00:13] But I am thrilled to hear that you got treatment and that you are sober now. I think that is amazing.
[01:00:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. This kind of thing is tragic, but you know, there's an element of, oh, it must be so amazing if my mom ignored my dad and me as a child to go get heroin. Like, this must be epic, and if I can just snort it and get the benefits and I won't have all the drawbacks, let me go try it.
[01:00:32] So it's incredibly irresponsible of this guy, even if he's sort of statistically, let's say he's statistically right, which I don't necessarily believe. It's kind of like saying, Hey, normally you can give kids loaded guns and they won't kill anyone or hurt themselves with it. Maybe that's true. Doesn't make it a good idea.
[01:00:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I just don't see this going well for most people. It's interesting. So I had never heard of Dr. Hart before this letter, but I did do some reading about him online and I have not read his book, so I'm not an expert in what he says. But he does seem to make some very fair policy points about the criminalization of drugs.
[01:01:06] Sure. And the criminalization of certain kinds of drugs over others, and just the failure of the war on drugs in general. Except he points out that the real benefit seems to have been to beef up prison budgets and policing budgets and to target certain segments of the population. And I think he's probably making some very fair points about that.
[01:01:22] But yes, his most famous claim is that the recreational use of these drugs is cool and super helpful if you do it the right way, quote unquote. That does seem controversial, potentially super dangerous. And I thought it was interesting. There was a New York Times review of his book. And in the review, the writer wrote Hart's argument that we need to drastically revise our current view of illegal drugs is both powerful and timely.
[01:01:43] But the question of addiction lingers in the background. Mm-Hmm. It is not one he attempts to resolve. In fact, he declares that his book is quote unquote, unapologetically not about addiction. And so when you hear a story like this, you think, okay, I think there's just a huge swath of this debate that he is sidestepping.
[01:02:00] Jordan Harbinger: This is kind of the problem that I had, and that's very clear. 2020 hindsight with one of the plastics episodes we did recently, which was Mm-Hmm. We talked about carbon footprint of replacing plastic things with metal or whatever. Mm-Hmm. And we're like, plastic's, the greenest thing. But then it was like, what about the trash problem?
[01:02:16] And it was, oh, you know, people litter. We can solve that with regulation. Let's move along. Mm-Hmm. And it's like, no, we still have a trash problem. And it's like, can you talk at all about drugs and drug policy without talking about addiction? Mm-Hmm. Can you talk about manufacturing things outta plastic and not talk about trash?
[01:02:33] Can you talk about green energy and not talk about the manufacturing cost of making solar panels or digging battery materials outta the ground in the Congo using child slave labor? You can't, right? You shouldn't. Yeah. You can't
[01:02:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: do it, how do you decide what to leave in and out of your argument because it's inconvenient or whatever, right?
[01:02:50] I mean, look, I think what is clear is that experimenting with drugs like heroin, even a little bit, even if you just snort it, is extremely risky, obviously. And it's especially risky for somebody who's predisposed to addiction. So even if Dr. Hart is right that some people can sometimes maybe enjoy certain drugs safely without becoming addicted, and he might be assuming by the way that everyone is like him, although, who's to say that he isn't addicted?
[01:03:12] I don't know. He could be in some way or hasn't been addicted in the past. I don't know. I don't know this guy. I don't know his history with drugs, but I can't quite myself, get on board with this message that easily because yes, it's dangerous and reckless, and I'm pretty sure that you can get through life quite well without casually snorting heroin to cope with, say, an anxiety disorder, which I think is what Dr.
[01:03:31] Hart says that he uses it for. So I wouldn't beat yourself up too much for that, but I do understand why you feel kind of ashamed, and I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I have to say, I. You are doing such a beautiful thing with that shame and that regret that you have, which is writing it to us and wanting to share this story with other people.
[01:03:49] I mean, what a brilliant way to turn your experience into something very different and very meaningful and we're happy to
[01:03:55] Jordan Harbinger: share it. I agree. I think it's a powerful story. It's sad, but yeah, you're not just sort of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself. You did something about it. This guy sounds awesome.
[01:04:04] Incredible. Anybody who gets off heroin kind of a superhero. 'cause you're not supposed to be able to do that, right? I mean that's a, that's a tricky thing to do. I agree. So anyway, it's next level stuff. I'm so happy you made it through this addiction. Okay. And that you avoided what happened to your mom, sending you a big hug.
[01:04:20] Keep up the incredible work man. And thank you again for sharing that with us. Alright, next up.
[01:04:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I work in IT at a large company and I've wanted to attain a leadership position for some time. Watching so many others around me rise up. Including my brother while I've ground away in my job, has been a Sisyphean task to say the least.
[01:04:40] Nice. Earlier this year, my boss told me that he was opening a leadership role in an adjacent area to mine and encouraged me to apply the role. Felt like it was made for me. I made it past the first round and they scheduled a grueling series of interviews, so I worked my ass off to prepare. It cut into my personal and family life, but I knew that this opportunity wouldn't come along again anytime soon.
[01:05:03] In some of the interviews, I did really well and the answers came easily. Others were a bit more challenging. When it got to the final presentation, I was surprised to see that half the panel wasn't even in attendance. The other half seemed disinterested and barely asked any questions. At the end, I knew something was wrong.
[01:05:21] Mm. I sent personal thank you notes that night to each of my interviewers and hoped for the best. The next morning, the recruiter told me that I had not passed the interviews and that the process had ended for me. I. I was crushed, and to some degree I'm still devastated. I definitely could have used the money, but if I'm being honest, a major part of it was to prove once and for all to myself and others that I really am at a higher level than people think I'm sick of watching.
[01:05:47] So many others around me rise while I continue to languish in the middle ranks. But I'm mostly upset with the way that they just threw me out without even so much as a personal message. Not one of them responded to my thank you notes with a quick, nice to have met you. They literally ceased all communication with me.
[01:06:04] Hmm. Now I feel like a failure and my morale is drained. Maybe it's time to apply for senior roles at startups or big tech, but I also have a huge parallel desire in the arts, writing, drawing, and photography. I'm considering going heads down on my manuscript and taking it to this writing festival next year to see if anyone is interested in it.
[01:06:24] How should I heal this emotional wound? What should I do? Signed spurned, burned, and wondering if I should turn. To another way to earn.
[01:06:33] Jordan Harbinger: Man, what an interesting letter. Thank you for being so vulnerable with us. I can absolutely understand why you feel so disillusioned and devastated right now. Yeah, you were genuinely pumped about this opportunity.
[01:06:44] Then you worked your ass off, got all prepped, and for reasons that are not entirely clear, just didn't go your way. And I think anyone in your shoes would feel really bummed. I'm bummed for you, man. I'm sorry this happened. It sucks. But here's the thing, your anger and disappointment, they're healthy, they're valid, they're appropriate.
[01:07:01] You saw an opportunity, you had a shot at landing it. You got invested as you should. That investment only grew, the harder you worked, and when it didn't go your way, it was a huge blow. What could be more normal than that? Right, right. This is so much of life chasing after things, getting our hopes up, risking the possibility of being disappointed and hurt.
[01:07:17] Mm-Hmm. And taking that risk, being vulnerable in that way. It's essential from dating to business, this uncomfortable feeling you have now. It's just the price you pay for pouring yourself into this dream for putting yourself out there. If you didn't wanna feel any of this, you could have sat this one out, let the promotion pass you by.
[01:07:35] You could have stayed safe, which by the way, is what so many people do, whether they realize it or not. And to return to that theme from question three, that's how a lot of people create the very outcome they say they don't want. They're just not willing to be as vulnerable as you were by chasing their goals.
[01:07:50] So they just never get to build the life they really want. But you didn't do that. You swung for the fricking fences, and I'm very proud of you for that. So this is not a total loss in my view. The true loss would've been just not going for it at all. Well said. Now that said, I have a few thoughts about how this all went down.
[01:08:06] First off, the way these higher ups treated you during the final presentation, how they went cold, didn't even hit you back with a simple thanks for presenting today. Good luck. Or sorry this didn't go your way, but nice work that just objectively sucks. Yeah, honestly, these people sound lame and disrespectful.
[01:08:21] They just don't care. They're totally checked out. On the other hand, it's possible that these folks couldn't engage with you as a candidate while they were making their decision. Maybe that's fair. Maybe there's a rule or some policy there. Something to consider. Now the fact that half the panel wasn't even in attendance and the other half seemed disengaged.
[01:08:39] I'm definitely connecting up some dots here. I could be wrong, but sure as hell sounds to me like they'd already made their decision and just had to go through the motions of hearing your presentation. Like we already hired the guy that we've been friends with for 10 years. Who are the other people whose time we wasted?
[01:08:52] Oh, one of these guys. All right, you go to the first one, we'll go to the second one, and then we'll all go out to lunch. And again, that totally sucks. It would've been way more respectful to cancel and not make you jump through the last hoop and stay up all night finalizing your PowerPoint or whatever than to carry on with this bullshit charade, if that's actually what happened.
[01:09:10] But if that's true. What felt so personal might have just been the way the cookie crumbled. It wasn't even about you. It was about them not wanting to lose an hour or two when it wasn't necessary at all. You were the only guy who didn't get the memo. I still think it's crappy. They didn't respond to your thank you notes, though I've been in the very same situation, and I know it stings when people don't meet you in the same spirit or set you up to fail.
[01:09:33] So there are a few explanations here and it's largely up to you to decide what you want to take away from this. It sounds to me like you're beating yourself up quite a bit. You feel like a failure. Your morale is drained. A I get it, but I'm also not so sure that that's the only takeaway you can have from this experience.
[01:09:50] 'cause look, just because you failed to get this promotion doesn't mean you're a failure. Hmm. It's really important to notice how those two concepts get linked. You can feel the wound of not succeeding in one way. Without telling yourself a whole big story about your value as an employee, how your company feels about you, what the rest of your career is gonna look like as a result of me talk about
[01:10:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: catastrophizing.
[01:10:11] Yes, I completely agree. Also, you don't know how this failed promotion bid is gonna serve you somehow down the road. That's where you're in the process of finding out right now. You know, you don't know if a better role is gonna open up in six months, and those same people who didn't think you were right for the other one or who had already given it to somebody else, they might turn around and go, oh, he's our guy.
[01:10:29] He's ready now. Or you sit with this for a couple months and you decide, you know what? These people do kind of suck. You know, they're not respectful, they're not supportive of me. Maybe this is my sign that it's time to find a place that does value me. And this huge disappointment inspires you to start interviewing and boom, fast forward a year and you're working in a job you love even more at Facebook or whatever.
[01:10:49] You just don't know
[01:10:50] Jordan Harbinger: exactly. It's like what we talked about on our end of year episode, right? Mm-Hmm. These setbacks, they're almost always blessings in disguise, right? But what makes them blessings is what we take away from them. Mm-Hmm. How we respond
[01:11:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: to them. Yes. And if your only takeaway from this is, I'm a failure and no one here supports me, and I guess I'm doomed to be stuck at this level forever, then your possibilities are gonna be a lot more limited.
[01:11:12] But if you open yourself up to some new meanings, if you look at this and you go. Huh, okay. Some of these people are not as pumped about me as I would like, but I am proud of myself for going after what I want, and now I know that I have that fire in me. And also I'm kind of bored here anyway, so maybe I should start talking to some people at other companies.
[01:11:30] Maybe I should tell them this story and see if there are any people in my court who can maybe help me out or pass my resume along. I mean, you can see how that is going to lead to very different outcomes. But there's another thing happening here, Jordan, that we have to talk about, which is how much he had writing on this promotion.
[01:11:47] It wasn't just the money, it wasn't just the title. It was this desire he had to prove once and for all to himself and to others that he really is at a higher level than people think.
[01:11:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He said he's sick of watching everyone else around him rise up while he languishes. Yes. Including his brother.
[01:12:04] Right, right. So
[01:12:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: interesting to your point, a moment ago, I mean, it's really hard to chase a big goal without getting emotionally attached to the result. Sure. I mean, how can you not? You apply for a new role, you prep really hard. You go through round, after round, of course, you're gonna start imagining your new paycheck, and you start fantasizing about how people will treat you, and you also start fantasizing about how you'll feel about yourself.
[01:12:25] That fantasy is part of the ambition, it's part of desire, and it's healthy to some degree, but it's also really important to catch yourself doing that and to stay grounded. And also just to appreciate how much you have writing on a certain outcome. Because I think what is so devastating about this setback is that you had your whole sense of self riding on the outcome, your confidence, your value as a person, your position in your family, potentially.
[01:12:50] All of that was on the line here. So when it didn't go your way, it wasn't just not getting the money or the title or the cred. It was not getting yourself the version of yourself you desperately want to be, which is just so interesting 'cause this thing you shared at the top of the episode today, Jordan was the best version of yourself is the version that's looking for a new version or some version of that.
[01:13:11] Some version of that version, the some version of that version or some version thereof. And there's nothing wrong with that version or wanting to become that person. I think it's wonderful. But your mistake was placing so many profound expectations on this one specific opportunity and kind of pinning all of your hopes for becoming that guy on whether these people approved of you.
[01:13:33] So when you say that you're devastated and that their indifference to you really hurt and that you're angry and your morale is drained, all of that makes so much sense to me. But underneath that, I do wonder if there's a great deal of shame and that shame might just be the embarrassment of not getting what you wanted this time.
[01:13:51] You know, kind of like, ugh, I feel, I feel silly. I feel exposed. I feel kind of like rejected. Maybe I'm dumb for thinking I could do this. Or it might be the shame of being rejected by people that you respected or, or people you now resent respecting. Mm-Hmm. Or it might just be the shame of being in touch with this very real longing.
[01:14:10] You have to rise up and to prove that you can achieve at a higher level than people think. And since you didn't get the win this time, you're left with the residual feeling of being, you know, I'm feeling kind of silly. I shouldn't have thought that I had a shot. Which by the way, you had to believe that.
[01:14:26] Mm-hmm. In order to do your best work. So while you lick your wounds and you plan your next move, I would also make some space to explore this possible shame piece and also this expectations thing. Why does rising up actually matter so much to you? You know, what are you really hoping to prove by climbing the ranks?
[01:14:44] Also, why do other people's opinions matter so much, and whose opinions are these actually? Are you looking to your company to validate certain parts of you that are not maybe being validated by yourself or in other parts of your life? Honestly, maybe most importantly, how far back do these feelings go?
[01:14:59] You know, have you felt this way before when you chased your goals in the past? How did these feelings get created? I think those questions will take you to some really important insights, and in a weird way, answering them right now might be why this promotion had to go the way
[01:15:14] Jordan Harbinger: it did. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
[01:15:16] Gabe sifting through this stuff after a failure. That's another way of finding the blessing in disguise, and I bet that'll prepare him to chase the next promotion or some job interviews in a whole new way. Mm-Hmm. As for your creative projects, the book you've been writing, I think it's awesome. Hey, I fully support you having meaningful pursuits outside of work, and if you wanna be a writer, more power to you.
[01:15:35] I just wouldn't make the same mistake Gabe was just alluding to by pinning all your hopes for happiness and fulfillment on getting a book deal, because a, well, that's not how life works. And B, now you're talking about a field that is far more unpredictable, unfair, and unfeeling than it. When I was a, a lawyer and I went to do a radio show in the podcast, people were kinda like.
[01:15:59] Wait a minute. You could either just stay here doing what people tell us to do, and you're gonna move up like this, or you can just take this other job with just no obvious path for upward mobility. Totally unpredictable. Usually like 99% of the people in it are just broke and never go anywhere in the top 1% rise.
[01:16:16] Like, why would you trade all this certainty for all this uncertainty for no reason?
[01:16:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's where my mind went when he shared that, at least in corporate life, as maddening as corporate life can be. Yeah, there's some logic, there's some coherence, but in the arts, uh, yeah, it's pure
[01:16:31] Jordan Harbinger: chaos. It is. Nothing makes sense.
[01:16:33] You can write Harry fricking Potter and 80 publishers are like, it's too zany. There's too many, it's too many words.
[01:16:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: So many, too many wands for my taste. Yeah, too
[01:16:41] Jordan Harbinger: many wands. Too many wands and words for that matter. So keep writing and drawing and taking pictures if you love doing it. And yeah, look, put yourself out there at this festival if you're passionate about it.
[01:16:50] But again, don't place too many expectations on that outcome. Do it because it's meaningful to you. Treat it like a process. As for the lingering emotional wound, that's gonna heal as you make new meaning outta the setback as you start to take some next steps and time always helps too. But here's what I know, that wound, honestly, it's a great sign.
[01:17:08] It means you had something on the line here. If you don't feel that way somewhat regularly, you're probably not living life to the fullest. So be proud of yourself for that. Keep on keeping on, you're exactly where you're supposed to be.
[01:17:23] Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in. Thank you so much for everybody who wrote in and all those who listen for that matter. Go back and check out Zach Wiener Smith if you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life in business have come through my network.
[01:17:35] The circle of people I know, like, and trust. And I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course. It's free. It's not gross, it's not schmoozy, it's not gonna make you, or the people you talk to look or feel bad. It's over on the Thinkific platform. It's six minute networking.com.
[01:17:49] These drills, they take a few minutes a day. That's it. This is the stuff I wish I knew 20, 30 years ago. Well, maybe not 30. I'm 42 for God's sake. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Build relationships before you need 'em again, six minute networking.com. Also, there's a subreddit for our show if you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes.
[01:18:08] I've never promoted it on the show, but there's a decent little small community in there talking sometimes. So if you're on Reddit, go ahead and join the Jordan Harbinger Show Subreddit. I don't moderate it, so it could go to shit, and like there's nothing I can do about it. But if there's an episode you really liked, an episode you really didn't like, or you wanna share some additional thoughts or learn more from other people in our show, fam, definitely check it out.
[01:18:27] Some cool conversations happening over there from time to time. reddit.com/r/jordan harbinger. And if you're on Reddit, you know how to find that kind of thing. I'd be remiss if I didn't promote our firstname.lastname@example.org slash news show notes and transcripts on the email@example.com.
[01:18:42] Advertisers discounts deals, ways to support the show. Also on the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn and you can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast one.
[01:19:00] My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Milly, OC Campo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.
[01:19:16] Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You are about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show about a guy who went from Nigerian royalty to the rugged streets of the Bronx.
[01:19:35] Remy Adele's life was thrown into chaos after a corrupt government stripped his family of their legacy, dive deep into his captivating journey from being surrounded by drugs and drive-bys to his inspiring pursuit to become a US Navy Seal, even though he didn't know how to swim. But that's not all.
[01:19:50] Remy's fight is far from over as he confronts the dark underworld of human trafficking and illegal organ harvesting. There's a saying in Nigeria every day is for the thief. Corruption was my dad's demise. They knew that my father would not stop fighting them. They killed my dad. It went from riches and wealth to the Bronx man, and it was really, really rough.
[01:20:14] Once you make the decision to join the Navy, in my opinion, you're giving up any fear of death. One day I got approached by another human trafficking nonprofit that actually employed former seals and former agency guys to go into other countries to rescue kids trapped in sex trafficking, but specifically kids who are being purchased by Americans.
[01:20:33] When I got down there, my eyes were just like open fully, and I just remember
[01:20:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: being appalled that
[01:20:41] Jordan Harbinger: parents would sell their daughters to traffickers in the north. I just remember being disgusted. It's such a global issue, but human trafficking is a blanket term under human trafficking. You have sex trafficking, you have organ harvesting, you have forced marriage, you have forced labor.
[01:20:56] You know, I made the film in order to be able to expose more people to this atrocity of organ harvesting, but the perception of these traffickers is that they're these scraggly, evil looking,
[01:21:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: uneducated,
[01:21:12] Jordan Harbinger: you know? On a corner type people. And the reality is the majority of people involved on the Oregon harvesting side of thing are highly educated, learned people.
[01:21:22] The truth needs to get out there. I. To uncover what drives the man who refuses to be defeated. Check out episode 8 68 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. Hey, it's Adam Corolla. Not
[01:21:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: sure if you heard, but I do a podcast Monday through Thursday, wherever you listen to podcasts. I team up with the very best comedians in the world, plus critical thinkers and all around nut jobs, and offer my personal insight on current events, the state of the nation, and the stories you may have missed.
[01:21:57] As the world gets crazier every day, you can stay fairly sane. I'll keep you there. I'll handle the crazy nuance is often lost on today's world, but you can find it right here available wherever you listen to Finer podcast. I'm Adam Corolla and I approve of this message.
Sign up to receive email updates
Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast.