1219: Redheads | Skeptical Sunday

1219: Redheads | Skeptical Sunday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I am here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though, we do Skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as Reiki, healing ear candling, self-help cults, bottled water, diet pills, and energy drinks.

And if you're new to the show or you wanna tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime, and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.

Just visit [00:01:00] jordanharbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. It's funny, uh, Jessica, we started, I think our very first skeptical Sunday was ear Candling and I thought, oh, here's something that some people do and it doesn't really do anything and it's kind of a scam, but no one's gonna get super upset about it.

I thought this is gonna be a relatively non-controversial start to skeptical Sunday. And what amazed me, but I guess shouldn't have and is now just played out over every episode of this show is people will die on the hill. That something that they believe in is not bs.

Jessica Wynn: How

dare you try and take away my ear candle?

Jordan Harbinger: And you would think ear candling like no one's, people are just gonna go, oh, oh, I've, I've been doing that for years. I guess it doesn't work. Silly me. Or like, I don't believe you. And they'll just keep doing it. No, I got vitriolic emails. The funniest ones were from like white blonde people who are like, "I'm one/ 7000th Cherokee."

And this goes way back to the tribe of, or whatever, you know, Indian tribe, native American tribe. And I remember I, it's funny 'cause of course we fact [00:02:00] check these episodes and we didn't do as much of that back then, but we do now. But then I was like, I better check this one. So I called, it was supposed to be like, oh, this goes back to the Sioux Indians.

So I called this Sioux tribe and I was like, this is so random, but I have a question. They had this historian person be like, yeah, no. That's just one of those, the many things where they say Native Americans thought of it and like dumb hippies buy it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with Native Americans.

And no, we don't do ear candling.

Jessica Wynn: Right. Where do these tales come from? You'll outta my dead cold ear. You'll take my candle.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. And so the, I just thought, how funny is it that this person's like, you're offending my Native American history and I call the authority at the tribe? And he is like, yeah, no.

First of all, we never do that and we don't do that. And if it's a BS and that's what you found, you're probably correct. And I remember something funny, he was like, look, we have a long and, and storied spiritual tradition. It's not really science. And I was just like, thank you for, I mean this guy, why don't you, you should host Skeptical Sunday.

Meanwhile some esthetician who's sells it to [00:03:00] her clients. And again, her great-great-grandfather was one 80th Cherokee is like so deeply offended that we got a one star review and a scathing Instagram dm. I just, it's kind of a common story with Skeptical Sunday actually.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I don't share all the messages I get from listeners of Skeptical Sunday, make my Sunday mornings start with a laugh.

For sure. So

Jordan Harbinger: people find you, even though we don't list your contact information and they're like, I just wanna tell you what, how wrong you are.

Jessica Wynn: Yes. Sometimes they're pleasant, but often it's, this is my understanding of it and your facts. Don't match my facts kind of

Jordan Harbinger: things. Yeah, yeah. Your facts that you got from research don't match the facts that I have, that I just know are true, even though I've done no research.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Oh, well, can like, I'm so interested to know and I'm wrong. Can you send me the citation and then you never hear from them again? Usually

Jordan Harbinger: citation. No. My buddy told me about it and he's really smart.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: When I took Iowa Huska, they had ear candles.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, yeah. So you're wrong. [00:04:00] Trump card research scientist.

Anyway, today we're talking about redheads. A group accused of everything from being temperamental to being tied to the devil, to not doing their research on Skeptical Sunday to my favorite being witches who turn into vampires when they die. Allegedly dermatologists stress over their sunburns. South Park mocks them, and yet they walk among us.

So is it just about red hair? Are they magical? Are they cursed, or are they just genetically spicy to color in the facts, I'm joined by a redhead and friend of the show writer and researcher, Jessica. So Jess, uh, how long have you been a witch?

Jessica Wynn: Well, I guess that depends on who you ask, but back in medieval Europe, it was absolutely believed that redheads are witches.

But modern sciences were just genetic oddballs.

Jordan Harbinger: So the redhead stereotype goes deeper than drinking whiskey neat. And having a bad temper.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I mean, there is that, but there's a lot of cultural curiosity. Redhead, ginger, take your pick [00:05:00] though. Not every redhead loves being called a ginger. It can feel like a slur depending how it's used.

But you and I, safe space,

Jordan Harbinger: right? Safe space. No name calling except we've all heard red heads are crazy soulless. Not me. South Park did a whole episode about it.

Eric Cartman: My speech is entitled Ginger Kids, children with red hair, light skin, and Freckles. We've all seen them on the playground at the store, walking on the streets.

They creep us out and make us feel sick to our stomachs. I'm talking of course about ginger kids. Oh, sick rose. Ginger kids are born with a disease which causes very light skin, red hair, and freckles. Ah, nasty. Yuck. This disease is called gingivitis, and it occurs because ginger kids have no souls. Kids who have gingivitis cannot be cured.

Rose. Yuck. Because their skin is so light. Ginger kids must avoid the sun. Not unlike vampires, some people have red hair, but not light skin and freckles. [00:06:00] These people are called day walkers like vampires. The ginger gene is a curse, and unless we work to rid the earth of that curse, the gingers could envelop our lives in blackness for all time.

It is time that we all admit to ourselves that gingers are vile and disgusting.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and that episode hilarious. Really funny. But then TikTok piles on that idea. Ginger hunting became an actual thing. People were filming themselves harassing redheads. Instagram accounts, mock redheads. There's entire Reddit threads debating whether gingers have souls.

It's, it's a whole thing,

Jordan Harbinger: but ginger hunting sounds less like teasing and more like a hay crime.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I mean, when, thank God there wasn't social media when I was a kid. I don't know if I would've survived, but when I was a kid, I got called Freckled Freak and the Devil's Spawn, and that was just in elementary school.

Now it's viral. I mean, I've been teased, spit on and hit on, don't get me started on the bad [00:07:00] pickup lines.

Jordan Harbinger: Which one do you prefer? No, are you, is said, are you a firecracker in bed? Oh god. Can I buy you a redheaded slut or, oh, it, no, it's for sure it's suit. Is the carpet match the, okay. Ding,

Jessica Wynn: ding, ding, ding, ding.

Yes, yes. The the answers are no, no. And please just stop talking. You know, redheads are cocktails or kinks. The assumptions about redheads are wild. I've actually been asked more than once if redheads are allowed to donate blood. Side note. We are.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But just not during daylight or during the full moon.

Right, right, right,

Jessica Wynn: right. I mean, this folklore goes back centuries though. During the witch trial days, redheads were found, unlucky, untrustworthy, even demonic. The mentality was like, oh no, our crops failed. Clearly. The problem is the woman with the red locks burn her.

Jordan Harbinger: All hair colors still comes with personality stereotypes, though blondes are dumb, brunettes are smart.

Redheads are fiery. I don't know what blue [00:08:00] hair hate the government. I don't know

Jessica Wynn: pretty much, but gingers get teased relentlessly. What Jessica Rabbit did to my formative years is, I don't know. Yeah. In middle school I was given a nickname that stuck for years. Do you wanna hear it?

Jordan Harbinger: Uh, do I

Jessica Wynn: fire muff?

Jordan Harbinger: Well, there goes the explicit rating or the not explicit rating of this episode.

That's not a nickname. That's No, that's embarrassing. We're definitely not gonna call you that on the show from now on or anything. Um, wow. As a kid, huh? Yikes.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Try being 13 and explaining that to your mom.

Jordan Harbinger: Did she need it explained or did she just need to know what it was? Because I feel like it's self-explanatory.

Is it not?

Jessica Wynn: I get, I don't know. I mean, depends how

Jordan Harbinger: sheltered your mom is. Moms

Jessica Wynn: Moms like to, to spin everything. Yeah. So, oh, it's nice. Like, no, they're not, they're not being nice mom. But the teasing doesn't stop. It just hits different. As an adult, you'd be shocked at the number of times I've had. [00:09:00] Women in locker rooms comment on my pubic hair.

Like,

Jordan Harbinger: no,

Jessica Wynn: excuse me, I'm just here to throw on my gym clothes. Not do, show and tell honestly.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. I don't, so that's strange to me. I don't think guys would do that to each other. I'm trying to imagine how that even goes down. Hey man. Wow. Nice pubes on that Don there. Way too invasive. Way too invasive. I guess that answers for us.

The whole carpet matching the curtains thing you didn't want to talk about before. There's cultural trauma, but let's talk. I still can't believe women are that you, I figured y'all ignored each other. You can't believe it in there. Just like we do. I mean you talk with guys, but like the, it's sort of like, let's just all talk like we're not naked right now.

That's kind of what happens in a locker room.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. It'd be such an interesting observational study. The reality show to see the differe. Yeah. The difference in locker room. What is locker room talk.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. So, okay. Let's talk genetics. Why do redheads even exist? What makes a redhead a redhead?

Jessica Wynn: Well, it's about something.

Everyone has a gene called the melanocortin one receptor or the [00:10:00] MC one R. It tells your cells what kind of pigment to make for your hair, skin, and eyes. In redheads, the MC one R gene mutations reroute the signals and tell the cells to make very little pigment. That means red hair, pale skin, and tragic sunburns.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so redhead are mutants. Then

Jessica Wynn: I think the more polite term is rare.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah,

Jessica Wynn: and if you've got red hair and blue eyes, that's the rarest combo on Earth. According to evolutionary biologists, the odds are 0.17%. It's only about 13 million people out of the 8 billion on earth.

Jordan Harbinger: So what, what, what color are your eyes?

Jessica Wynn: Blue.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. You are really a freak then.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Yeah. Guilty.

Jordan Harbinger: So why is this combo so rare?

Jessica Wynn: Because both traits are recessive. Okay. So statistically it's just very unlikely. You need two sets of the redhead mutant gene. [00:11:00] One from each parent for the trait to show up, and then they each have to pass it down.

That's why two brunettes can still have a redheaded baby. They both just have to be carriers.

Jordan Harbinger: Uh, it's like a ginger lottery ticket.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, sort of. The pigmentation starts with melanin, the stuff that colors our skin and hair. There's cells called melanocytes that package pigment into melanosomes, which get delivered to your skin.

And hair cells, humans make two different kinds of melanin. You melanin, which is the darker pigments and melanin, which are the lighter ones. Redheads just crank out way more theo melanin,

Jordan Harbinger: which is why every redhead I know is either hiding under a parasol or SLA and or slathered in SPF 1000.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I mean, and for good reason, melanin isn't just your color.

It's like your UV bodyguard. It absorbs radiation, protects from cellular damage, and it's like a shock absorber of ultraviolet light. [00:12:00] So without enough yu melanin, you burn fast. The process is called apoptosis where your skin gets inflamed, blood vessels expand and boom sunburn. So the more theo melanin, the faster you burn.

And not only that, but this damage can lead to a lot of different skin cancers.

Jordan Harbinger: So now I guess I'm understanding the vampire comparison, but why is there such a wide spectrum of hair and skin tones? That's probably a dumb question, but whatever.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I mean, and as far as the vampire thing, it probably, you know, sunscreen's only been around since the seventies, so redheads probably did only come out at night, which, which sparked these rumors, right?

But the Mc one R gene, it's not acting alone. So research suggests there are at least eight other genes that influence the red hair expressions. So it's not just like one switch being flipped, it's like a whole genetic circuit board.

Jordan Harbinger: Is there any way to know what traits people are likely to pass down?

Jessica Wynn: There's no definitive way, but you can figure [00:13:00] out the probability using what's called a punt square. It's a diagram that maps possible gene combinations from two parents, and there's so many combinations. That's why siblings don't look alike. No, I had three siblings, but I'm the only redhead. My brother has brown hair, but a red beard.

Genes just express themselves in many different ways.

Jordan Harbinger: So I guess, uh, what do you guess, what would you say the drapes don't match the carpet or I don't know how that's, that's for him.

Jessica Wynn: It would it be, yeah. Yeah. So

Jordan Harbinger: you ca So gross. Sorry, Joe. Gross pickup line. So you can carry a genetic trait without showing it.

Okay. Yes, that makes sense. But does the whole thing with redheads go beyond skin and hair? I've actually heard redheads don't feel pain as much or something along those lines. Is that real? That sounds fake.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I mean, this is where it definitely gets weird. So the Mc one R gene isn't just about pigment.

It's involved in a bunch of biological processes, including pain processing. And studies show redheads, they do feel pain, but they [00:14:00] experience it differently than other people. So redheads produce lower levels of a protein called POMC, and that protein breaks down into two key hormones, one that boosts pain perception, and another that blocks it.

Redheads end up with more of the pain blocker and less of the pain booster. And there's even studies that show redheads tolerate more electric shocks and stabbing pains than those with different colored hair. But at the same time, redheads are, they're just, they're more sensitive to thermal pain, like heat and the cold.

Jordan Harbinger: That's so weird. So you'd shrug off a taser, but if somebody opens a window, you collapse.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, that's pretty accurate. That's what the research says. A lot of more research needs to go into the Mc one R gene. But that tracks with my behavior and it's anecdotal, but I am always cold. But you could stitch my finger without numbing me like I've done that.

So a University of Louisville [00:15:00] study suggests that Mc one R gene, it over activates temperature detecting cells. So when a redhead says they're cold, grab them a blanket, they're feeling cold. But the relationship between red hair and pain perception, it's complex and it's not fully understood. And not every redhead has the same response.

Right? So don't go punch your ginger friend for fun,

Jordan Harbinger: freaky, and I mean that in the best way possible

Jessica Wynn: Shop. Sure. And it doesn't stop there. Redhead's metabolism seems to work differently. Redheads appear to have a complicated relationship with anesthesia because the mc one R gene mutation, it messes with our opioid receptors that the MC one R gene carries.

Jordan Harbinger: I see. Wait, how are we figuring this out? Are researchers stabbing and shocking redheads? Are there ginger lab mice?

Jessica Wynn: Yes, there are redheaded mice. Wow. Used to experiments.

Jordan Harbinger: First of all, I demand a Pixar film Finding Ginger, A feel good story about a mouse with [00:16:00] self-esteem issues, who gets into the ibuprofen.

Jessica Wynn: I love it. I love it. Give them Scottish accents and kilts and I would definitely watch that

Jordan Harbinger: for sure.

Jessica Wynn: But these mice, like redheads have higher pain thresholds because of their mutated mc one R gene. And just like in people, the difference in pigment produced meant that redheaded mice produced more pain blockers and fewer pain boosters.

Jordan Harbinger: So it sounds like your pigment making cells are communicating with your nervous system somehow. Is that a thing?

Jessica Wynn: It seems to be, yeah. Wow. And studies find that gender also plays a role. There's a lot more studies with female redheads and women with red hair have a greater tolerance to pain than men with red hair.

Jordan Harbinger: But you said anesthesia affects redheads differently. Why is that?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, this research is a little messy. So back in 2004, there was a study that claimed redheaded women needed 19% more de fluorine, which is a general [00:17:00] anesthetic than other hair colors.

Jordan Harbinger: Does that mean if you pick up a drug habit, it'll be 19% more expensive?

'cause that's a bummer. Actually.

Jessica Wynn: I don't think so.

Jordan Harbinger: You're like a biological, choose your own adventure. That's so weird. Yeah. I

Jessica Wynn: mean, kind of the problem with that study though is that it was really, really tiny. Just 20 white women,

Jordan Harbinger: 20. That's not a study. That's a book club. And I know people are like, well, the only redheads that there are are white women.

And I, I hope we get into this, but that's not true. I've actually, my mom. Taught in a, a school that was mostly African American and she said there were tons of kids with red hair.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I mean, it's just a mutated gene. It happens for no matter how dark your your skin is, it can happen in your hair expression for sure.

Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's super cool actually. It's super cute on kids, as you might imagine. I know you get these little African American kids with like bright, bright red hair. Yeah, it's adorable. Um, but yeah, 20, a sample says of 20, basically your, to your point, not a lot going on there. That's kind of, yeah,

Jessica Wynn: not a lot.

And then researchers scaled up this study in [00:18:00] 2015 and they used over 6,000 patients, but that study found redhead showed no significant difference in anesthesia needed. So I was surprised myself by this because my whole life, I've believed anesthesia was tricky for us, and that that was just conventional wisdom.

But there's no scientific evidence. I definitely have had doctors tell me that, but I've only needed general anesthesia once.

Jordan Harbinger: So doctors told you that, but not anesthesiologists. Right. So the, the big anesthesia conspiracy is a ginger urban legend. I'm actually surprised by how often doctors don't know anything about anesthesia.

And I will tell you in their defense, I've got a buddy who's an anesthesiologist, close friend of mine. He also says, Hey, frankly, we don't actually know how all of this stuff works at every level.

Jessica Wynn: Anesthesia is so freaky. It really?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's

Jessica Wynn: terrifying. It's kind of like,

Jordan Harbinger: like, okay, so you're an expert on this and people with their lives in your hands.

And he is like, correct. I know how to administer it. I know how to solve problems with it. But once you [00:19:00] get into how it works deeply in the brain. At least your general everyday anesthesiologist at a hospital. He doesn't know how this stuff works. Like maybe people who are really big in the scientific research and can explain it better, but he's like, I'm pretty sure there's just a lot of like, we don't know exactly how this works when it comes to anesthesia.

Jessica Wynn: I think that's just everything with our medicine. Medicine, yeah. Especially our brains and genes and things. Yeah. But I mean the, the thing with these studies spec focusing on specifically redheads is that they're just inconclusive at best. There just hasn't been enough solid research though. The MC one R gene, it does mess with the body in interesting ways.

Jordan Harbinger: It sounds less like myth busting and it's myth mutating. Yeah,

Jessica Wynn: I think, I mean, for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: The mc one R gene and therefore redheads are still a big, weird mystery. There was a 2021 mouse study that even linked the redheaded gene to higher pain [00:20:00] thresholds and. The researchers concluded from that that the mc one R gene also influences how we process painkillers, drugs and alcohol.

Jordan Harbinger: South Park says Gingers don't have souls, but you know who does. The amazing sponsors who support this show, let's see what they got before we come back with more myths, mutants, and maybe even a little witchcraft. We'll be right back.

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We just booked our very first cruise with the kids, and we could not be more excited. Seriously, can spring break get here any faster? The kids are already bouncing off the walls. And honestly, I will too. Once I see those water slides and all the onboard activities, it's basically a floating adventure [00:22:00] playground, and it feels like the perfect mix of relaxation for us and exploration for them.

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It's called Wee Bit Wiser. It comes out just about every Wednesday. It's a very practical rubber meets the road bite from a past show. It's from us to you. It's a two minute read if that, and we love writing these things. Y'all love reading. You can always hit reply and we get a lot of engagement on these.

Would love to see you there. It's a great companion to the show. Jordan harbinger.com/news is where you can find it. Now, back to skeptical [00:23:00] Sunday. So this feels like evolution, having a bit of fun with this mc one R Gene almost. Yeah,

Jessica Wynn: I think so. I mean, tell me about it. Opioids, for instance, in redheads, they work too well.

They are more effective in redheads because smaller doses hit harder and less is needed to get the same relief for high than people with other hair types. Then the effect of that wears off quicker.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah, okay. So maybe the cheaper high that's also short-lived, cancels each other out. Disregard what I said above about saving 20% off your smack bill.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I don't know. Hopefully I won't have to find out. But I think redheads, they just have to get high more often.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That might actually explain why my redheaded friends slams this, you know, one white claw and goes from sober to karaoke in like 10 minutes.

Jessica Wynn: It hits 'em fast. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, there's evidence that redheads do get tipsy faster, but then they can drink for longer periods of time.

So personally, I once fell out of a dental chair because the gas hit [00:24:00] me so fast. But fun anesthesia that one time I had it, it took absolutely forever for me to wake up and back when I used to drink, I could have a six pack at the pre-party. Then go out for martinis. So anecdotally, I mean, redheads seem to metabolize things differently, but it just isn't widely studied.

Jordan Harbinger: So medicine doesn't know if redheads are superhuman or just badly wired, or maybe it's, maybe it's other things about you.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, I guess that's the debate, right? But uhhuh, the MC one R gene definitely affects pigment. It also definitely interacts with brain pathways for pain. Some scientists even argue the variants that affect pain aren't the same ones that make your hair red.

So we just know so little. But we do know something is up with this mc one R gene

Jordan Harbinger: translation being, you can't just look at a ginger and go, better double up the morphine doc.

Jessica Wynn: Right. And the medical consensus right now is don't treat redheads based on hair color alone. [00:25:00] So anesthesiologists will tailor the dose to each patient anyway based on vitals and monitoring during surgery.

It's just kind of another way redheads get the side eye.

Jordan Harbinger: I see. Okay. So you're like a super complicated lab rat. Exactly. Okay. But do redheads actually drink more than those without the recessive gene, or is that another Irish based stereotype kind of thing? I

Jessica Wynn: mean, the data points to redheads having a particular affinity for alcohol that others don't.

It seems to be related to metabolism and pain sensitivity and less severe hangover symptoms. Ultimately, it's just important to understand that while genetics do play a role, tolerance to alcohol is determined by a variety of factors, not just genes. So lifestyle and body chemistry matter too. The complex relationship between redheads and alcohol is still being sorted out, but heredity and the body's reaction to alcohol do seem to interact.

But it's not like AA meetings or redhead conventions, [00:26:00]

Jordan Harbinger: right? Yeah, that's true. So let me get this straight. Redheads might need more anesthesia, but less morphine can tolerate electric shocks, but freeze under a snowflake. Do medical schools actually teach this stuff? I have to assume that they do.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, they do.

Med students learn that redheads respond differently to certain drugs. So for example, topical or injectable anesthetics like lidocaine, they often work less effectively. So higher doses probably needed for your redheaded patients. Then there's that paradox that they need lower doses of opioid painkillers, like morphine.

Jordan Harbinger: So every anesthesiologist has some sort of secret ginger manual somewhere on their bookshelf?

Jessica Wynn: I think so. I mean, they should have a manual for every patient. But yeah, research shows the mc one R gene influences receptors all over the body, and because it's mutated redheads react oddly to so many substances, and by studying it, scientists [00:27:00] might actually unlock new pain treatments for everyone, regardless of hair color.

Jordan Harbinger: So redheads are saving the world one lidocaine shot at a time, I guess.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, and it's, it's not just humans, right? The mc one R mutation shows up across the animal kingdom like cats, for instance. Male ginger cats are far more common than female ones because the orange fur gene sits on the X chromosome.

Meaning males only need one copy, but the females need two.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah, I came for hair trivia and I'm staying for cat genetics. Yeah, I

Jessica Wynn: mean, female cats with the one orange gene, they're the ones that come out the patchy calico or tortoise shell coats. But the MC one R, it's kind of like the weird gene. So overall redheads have unusual reactions to numerous substances because that gene influences receptors all over our brain and it makes redheads unusual in a whole bunch of ways.

Jordan Harbinger: Like all the sunscreen y'all use. So if you have red hair, sunblock is absolutely necessary. Correct. Because of the [00:28:00] mc one R light pigment thing.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, absolutely. I call it armor. And like I said before, sunscreen only showed up in the seventies, so our redheaded ancestors were basically toast. And I feel for all my generations of redheads that came before sunscreen, that that could not have been pleasant.

But redheads have very little protective melanin, which is why they're at a higher risk for melanoma. Too much sun kills melanocytes, and once they're gone, the cancer risk goes way up.

Jordan Harbinger: So this shows how much the MC one R effects ripple out beyond hair color.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. And skin cancer risks may be one of the best known facts about redheads dermatology.

Studies show over and over that there's no question that red haired individuals are at a much higher risk for skin cancer than non redheaded individuals. Gingers are just more susceptible to damage from the sun and burning just happens.

Jordan Harbinger: Yep. Nature gave you flammable skin.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, pretty much it. It certainly gives redheads pale [00:29:00] skin freckles and sensitivity to the sun.

It's like the ginger starter pack.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So does that make redhead's age faster?

Jessica Wynn: Uh, weirdly, yes.

Jordan Harbinger: Bummer

Jessica Wynn: study in,

Jordan Harbinger: yeah.

Jessica Wynn: Current biology found that people with the MC one R gene mutation. Which means redheads, right appear at least two years older than people who don't have it.

Speaker 5: That's not bad, and

Jessica Wynn: it isn't from sun damage.

The gene itself seems to influence pathways tied to sagging skin and facial aging. So the studies of the MC one R gene are the first genetic evidence for perceived age.

Jordan Harbinger: So you look older and then you get more sun damage, which makes you look even older. So if you do everything right, you only look two years older.

But if you do everything like a normal person, you look 12 years older.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. If you stay inside, you'll still look older.

Jordan Harbinger: Not a lot of upside to be in a ginger so far.

Jessica Wynn: Oh, well, on one bright side, there was a 2020 study that found redheads produce [00:30:00] vitamin D faster and at higher levels than those without red hair.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh good. Because you can't get vitamin D anywhere else. Right,

Speaker 3: right.

Jessica Wynn: Hey, give it to me.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's a hundred dollars for a 10 year supply of vitamin D, maybe less, I don't know,

Jessica Wynn: pale skin plus the SZ one R means redheads have evolved to naturally make up for what they lack. So the level of D three in someone also corresponds to how red the hair is.

The pale skin is actually an evolutionary advantage in cloudy places like where we associate red hair, Ireland and Scotland,

Jordan Harbinger: basically the redheaded body makes homemade natural supplements. Yeah. So like my kids' fruit loops, you're fortified with vitamin D. That's convenient.

Jessica Wynn: I, yeah, my am definitely, and there are more health works associated with red hair.

According to a large review study published in 2017, female redheads have a higher risk of gynecological cancers [00:31:00] like cervical uterine ovarian, and the redder the hair, the higher the risk. So one theory links it to prenatal estrogen exposure, but that hasn't been extensively tested. So of course, you know, I think the problem here is there's no one shade of red, and these studies rely on women's own rating of how red her hair is, which is just so subjective.

It's like. It's gotta be hard to measure degrees of red headedness.

Jordan Harbinger: So red hair might influence your biology before you're even born?

Jessica Wynn: I think so, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: This is all pretty heavy so far. Tell me something fun. Come on.

Jessica Wynn: Well, red hair affects blushing, so redhead's blush, easier and brighter.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: Evolutionary theory says redheads developed many abilities to survive where the sun rarely shines.

Jordan Harbinger: Uh, insert joke about sunburned butts here. I guess

Jessica Wynn: I know. Well, the, the parts of the world with low intensity UVB rays like central and [00:32:00] northern parts of Europe, redhead may be seen more.

Jordan Harbinger: I guess it makes sense that there's more redheads in Ireland and Scotland because it's just not that sunny there, like you said before.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, sure. But we, you know, as we know, redheads do pop up everywhere, and right now it's estimated that redheads make up about one to 2% of the world population. That may seem like a very low number, but. That's about 150 million redheads walking around the world. They're not all in Ireland, but you're right, that sections of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales have the highest concentration of redheads.

It's about 10% there, and there used to be a huge redhead gathering once a year in the uk, but it's stopped during the pandemic and it hasn't come back. However, in the last week of August of 2025, there was a redhead days festival in the Netherlands.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. So there really is a redhead festival. That's hilarious somehow.

How does something like that even start? You gotta wonder.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I mean, the one in the Dutch city of Tilburg has been happening for decades. In the [00:33:00] eighties, Dutch artist Bart Rowan Horst put out an ad in a local newspaper for 15 redheads for an art project, and he got 10 times the response he was expecting.

But he just had everyone who responded join in on his group photo. Now it's just turned into this free festival, open to all, with the exception of the scheduled official group photo that's restricted to natural redheads. The 2013 gathering of this set a Guinness World record for the largest gathering of people with natural red hair, with almost 2000 people posing for the one group photo.

Jordan Harbinger: Hilarious. Were you ever part of something like that?

Jessica Wynn: No. And in fact, I'll say I lived in Dublin for a year and I traveled all over the island. I was actually surprised at how few redheads I encountered. Really? Yeah. It just didn't seem to me to be overwhelming, but it appeared way more prevalent when I traveled around Scotland and Wales.

Jordan Harbinger: But redheads are not just restricted to Europeans, right? So where, like I mentioned before, there's African [00:34:00] Americans with red hair. So where did this freaky gene originate? Is it like a Viking thing?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I was convinced there was a Viking thing at one point too. But no, Vikings did not introduce red hair despite what every redhead Halloween costume has, you believe.

The redheaded gene mutation. It actually predates the Viking Age by like tens of thousands of years.

Jordan Harbinger: I liked the idea that every redhead has a little bit of Thor blood. I thought every ginger was a little bit of an angry Norse God in the first place. They, you all have that rep. I'm frankly a little disappointed.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Sorry to ruin the fantasy. But I mean, red hair is found among people of Viking descent, don't get me wrong, but it's not exclusive to them. Vikings. Were as genetically diverse as any society with early man buns in hair colors across the spectrum. Blonde, brown, red.

Jordan Harbinger: So where did the first redheads come from?

Like was there a, is there a Ginger Eve somewhere on the books?

Jessica Wynn: Not quite Eve, but yeah. Genetic mutation first popped up in Central Asia about 50,000 years [00:35:00] ago. Wow. And as humans migrated to Europe, they just carried the gene with them. And then in sun starved places like Ireland and Scotland, the pale skin and red hair, it helped with that Vitamin D production.

So that's what resulted in pockets of Gingers thriving in the fog.

Jordan Harbinger: I wonder how they even found that it popped up in Central Asia 50,000 years ago. Like I Are they doing an archeological dig and they're like, wow, look at this guy. The carpet matches the curtains, this fossil. It

Jessica Wynn: also seems like this information is somewhat new.

I mean, I think it's just, yeah, from how we can do genetic and DNA testing and fossils. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: So you mentioned that vitamin D production or early Vitamin D production resulted in pockets of gingers thriving in the fog. So this is like a pre sunscreen hack to battle the sun. So it's a useful mutation. It's kept you, what does vitamin D prevent again?

Is it rickets? There's a lot of hormone stuff related to it. I, 'cause I was deficient and I took it. Yeah,

Jessica Wynn: I think there's just a lot of, a lot of balancing of, yeah, I, I don't know [00:36:00] specifically, but. We definitely need it. That is for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Wow.

Jessica Wynn: But yeah, I mean, definitely you find redheads all over and it was the Celts who they started in central Europe, they seemed to have a big pocket of it, and they helped spread the gene all around because they had a nomadic lifestyle.

Now, Morocco, for example, has a much higher than average concentration of redheads. There's specific parts of Russia and even South America that have very high populations. Just redheads are found everywhere.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I've actually seen people from Yemen and Afghanistan with bright red hair in their beards.

Yeah. And it's so bright that I, you think that's fake, but then you realize that a 60-year-old Yemeni guy running a gas station is not dying. His beard red. Right. He's just, it doesn't look like the type. He's just

Jessica Wynn: a freak.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And, and you see it enough where you're like, there's one place I go to that has amazing frigging shawarma in Castroville.

It's like a rotten Robbie gas station with a falafel shawarma place in the [00:37:00] back that is epic. And it's run by Yemenis. And the dad has this bright red hair and he's the guy where I'm just like, yeah, that's not fake. This guy's not, this guy's not dying his beard and walking around this place like that.

Like he's not the guy. But it's very interesting to see that. And you see that in photos of people from Afghanistan. I, I've seen some Taliban photos where guys have bright red beard. Yeah, I've

Jessica Wynn: seen the Taliban photos too. My, oh, that's so that's why they're covering up their head

Jordan Harbinger: and you're thinking like, okay, the Taliban probably also not running to the pink.to get beard die.

Right. So it's probably real. So all these old myths, I guess my point here is that all these old myths are even weirder because if redheads are everywhere and they've been around for thousands and thousands of years, all over Central Asia and all over the continent of Europe. Why the superstitions? It's not that rare.

It's like being left-hand. Well, I guess if you're left-handed, we should do an episode on that. Oh yeah. Because they, I think also we have, there's superstitions that people who are left-handed are bad. Uh, in fact, I think you even say left in [00:38:00] Italian sinister, which is like sinister. Right. That's gotta be related to that.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I know in the Catholic religion, you couldn't be left-handed if you were studying at the church, you had to write with your Right. There was some kind of connection with the devil, which who knows where all these things come from.

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, maybe, I don't know. That's sort of, I could see that checking out, um, at least in my case.

But, but, uh,

Jessica Wynn: humans love to just demonize what's weird and rare

Jordan Harbinger: and rare. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The

Jessica Wynn: comedian Anisa Nand, she actually is a bit about how rare it is to see redheads and Uganda. It's hilarious.

Speaker 6: When I first came to Australia, I didn't know anything about you guys. Like when I saw my first redhead. I lost my shit because I didn't know that you guys came in this edition.

It's the first time I saw redhead. His name was Stewart, and I kept staring at him because in Uganda, redheads get kidnapped by witches and used for spells,[00:39:00]

and I think he looked down on me because I was black. He was like, you must be so happy that you don't live in Uganda. I was like, no, you must be so happy you don't leave Uganda.

Jessica Wynn: They'd fuck you up. So yeah, redhead's just collected some truly bizarre folklore everywhere. Some flattering, some really not.

Jordan Harbinger: So give us the flattering first.

Warm us up.

Jessica Wynn: Okay. Well, in 1886, a French doctor, Augustine Gallatin, he published a book declaring Redheads, were sexier smelling people. Hmm. Literally, he thought they emitted a unique, intoxicating body odor.

Jordan Harbinger: Not creepy at all. Perhaps that doctor was just, he maybe had a thing for redheads with Bo. Which I guess back then in 1886 in France, everyone had bo.

So whatever I, is that science or is that just the musings of a horny French guy?

Jessica Wynn: I don't know. I think [00:40:00] everyone's guess here is the latter.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's the kind of rigorous peer reviewed research we need more of on this podcast. Right.

Jessica Wynn: But his myth has carried on today. Some people still believe that because of specific skin biochemistry, redheads have a unique smell.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Gross. Anyway. Yeah, I don't believe that. I'm just,

Jessica Wynn: that is some people's belief.

Jordan Harbinger: I'm just not convinced that that's specific to redheads. But I'm no horny French scientist, so what do I know?

Jessica Wynn: I mean, I agree with you. It's just another theory out there, but there is actually attraction data. So attraction is a really difficult thing to define, but it's real.

And some people are just more attracted to redheads, like that's their type. And it seems people like Jason Momoa, they assume a lot of things about redheaded behavior.

Kid: Do you know a little Mermaid?

Jason Momoa: Oh,

Kelly Clarkson: that was her question in my office, and I was like, ask him.

Jason Momoa: Ariel Ariel's very sweet. She's very nice.

She's also a [00:41:00] redhead, so yeah. I'm gonna teach you about redhead someday. They're, they're very passionate, very passionate people.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, these little comments are so common, and they can make me feel pretty misunderstood.

Jordan Harbinger: Stick around. These deals are hotter than a Ginger's first sunburn. We'll be right back.

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All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Now for the rest of skeptical Sunday, but the burning question is, are redheads having more sex? That's what everybody wants to know. That's what horny French doctors wanna know.

Jessica Wynn: That's what the horny French doctors try to figure out. I [00:44:00] mean, studies show redheaded, women report more sexual activity and partners. There was a 2022 study that found redheads become sexually active at an earlier age and report higher sexual desires. There's a German dating app researcher that claims redheads average at least one more hookup per week than blondes or brunettes, however you figure that out.

I just, I wanna point out, these studies all suggest that redheaded women report more sexual activity and more sexual partners,

Jordan Harbinger: and it's because it's a fetish for some, those who are into redheads are just super into redheads and there's, I don't know, less supply maybe 'cause the rarity.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, maybe. I mean, I don't think that's exactly it.

So, researching this, I found a weird fact about redheads in the human body. So that 2022 study that looked at 110 women, 34% of them redheads, found that they scored higher on measures of sexual desire. They [00:45:00] reported more sexual activity and more partners than all the non redheaded participants. But these studies are somewhat ridiculous.

So it's not entirely clear why this is the case, and the authors of it speculate that it could be due to a partner's more frequent attempts to initiate sex rather than the women's desire. So perhaps it's like a exotic novelty factor. I'm not sure.

Jordan Harbinger: Or they just love getting down. Yeah. Redheaded sluts, Jessica

Jessica Wynn: Daddy chill.

But according to this study, the sex lives of women with red hair we're clearly more active than those with other hair colors, with more partners having sex more often than the average. And the figures revealed that typically. Redheads have intercourse at least one more time per week than the rest of the population.

Jordan Harbinger: So does, there's so many questions I wanna ask you, but here's the question I'm going to ask you. So does that mean redheads are having more babies as [00:46:00] well?

Jessica Wynn: These studies are also so bizarre because they actually show that redheaded women report more fertility issues, but also end up having more children.

Jordan Harbinger: So they're having more sex and having more babies and scientists are mystified. Okay. Maybe no surprise some of the science torks can't figure this one out. I can't figure this one out. I don't know.

Norman Osborn: You know. I'm something of a scientist myself.

Jordan Harbinger: At least I was back in the day. Hopefully I'm shaking that reputation by now.

Anyway.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, this all makes me a gold star redhead. I have red hair, blue eyes, and no babies, so could be biology or maybe something more psychological. It's not data that has been collected enough. But not only do redheads have fertility issues, it's also reported redheads have higher rates of depression and anxiety.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Redheads are high anxiety and high functioning. Maybe that's a reason some people are so into them. You, [00:47:00] you, sexy, aromatic, freckly, neurotic mess. Bring that pale ass over here.

Jessica Wynn: I will say, and I, I tried to find like actual research about this, but as far as the depression goes, you know, in therapy doctors like to throw you all kinds of medicine.

I was prescribed at one point in my life an SSRI, which is like Wellbutrin and those kind of things. It did the opposite. It did so much damage and I had to immediately be taken off of them. So when I was reading this, I thought is okay, if we've higher depression rates, is it because the medications don't work on redheads?

But I couldn't find any research. That's just my experience. But you know, there's definitely a cultural fetish. So yeah, some guys treat it like they're collecting rare Pokemon, like, oh, I've always wanted a redhead. Like it's not subtle. And I am not interested in being the shiny charizard. I don't know about my other redheaded sisters, but I don't wanna be somebody's sexual conquest.

[00:48:00] And there are really specific studies that actually look at the rates. Different hair colors get hit on.

Jordan Harbinger: Did you say Sha Ard? Is that a Pokemon, by the way?

Jessica Wynn: Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah, I guess I always thought that was Charizard, but you can tell I don't play Pokemon. Oh, because it looks like it's, that's the one that's spelled Charizard basically, right?

Yeah,

Jessica Wynn: like Lizard. But I think they say it. Ard Charizard. I mean, who knows? Kids. I'll take your word for it. You can tell me may my pronunciation might be off.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's gonna be the one thing everybody emails me about this episode. Nothing else is gonna be interesting. It's just gonna be all pronunciations of Charizard.

So tell me about the, you said different rates, hair colors get hit on. Say more about that. What color should we all be dying? Our hair?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I mean, well it depends on the kind of attention you want, but it's true. The studies look at straight women with different hair colors. They show blondes get the most male attention.

Redheads a little less so, but the same men interviewed later said, redheads seem less approachable. So these studies, you know, they're a bit [00:49:00] flimsy, and I'm sorry, to my redheaded brothers, I didn't come across any similar experiments with men and hair color.

Jordan Harbinger: So redheads are bullied and fetishized. That's peak humanity right there, I suppose.

Right? And bullied

Jessica Wynn: in the strangest ways. Just a couple weeks ago in Tucson. This guy went to a city council meeting and just went on this wild rant about how much he dislikes having gingers in town. How redheaded people shouldn't be allowed to have cameras. It's so wild.

Town Hall Weirdo: We gotta choke every ginger in town.

We can't have gingers run around Sara, Rita. You know, we can't have gingers. We can't have people with a camera. You put a ginger with a camera, we need to get 'em outta here. We can't have any of them gingers. And that's basically all I gotta say. All gingers should be thrown outta cda. Cita is not the place for gingers.

If we can throw out all the gingers and bring in more people like Chief Nolan, he knows what to do with gingers. We saw he knows how to handle gingers, [00:50:00] and that's how you gotta handle gingers, is you put 'em in a headlock and you throw 'em to the ground and you break their camera. He had a four. K camera.

None of us in Tucson can afford a 4K camera. We have to use 10 80 or seven 20. But he had a 4K camera. You gotta break that camera. You can't let anybody with nice cameras like that around, especially in the police department. So I thank you for what your chief did and we need more people like him. We need more people in sevy to, to choke out gingers.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Yeah, I saw that. I thought that, first of all, it looks like a scene outta Parks and Rec. We'll link it in the show notes. I thought it was a joke. I really thought that he was trolling because who the hell is so anti redhead that they speak at a town hall meeting? What the hell? I

Jessica Wynn: was so hoping it was a joke.

But this,

Jordan Harbinger: yeah, you

Jessica Wynn: know, I mean, one of

Jordan Harbinger: the odds that this 65, 70-year-old man is able to deliver something that dry and persuasive. And be ironic and not serious. Yeah, I'll

Jessica Wynn: definitely be avoiding the Tucson area. I mean, I just, [00:51:00] I feel so targeted this, this vitriol

Jordan Harbinger: tucson's in Arizona. There should be no redheads there anyway, given what you just told me about the sun.

Yeah,

Jessica Wynn: exactly. Yeah. I mean, obviously this is a very extreme example. I'd like to think most people do not feel this way.

Jordan Harbinger: No, but there's also an extinction myth I've heard. By the way, is it true that redheads are slowly disappearing over time and they'll eventually go extinct?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I have definitely heard that too.

But like it or not, you're stuck with this world. It's just total nonsense. Redheads could go extinct because the Mc one R gene, it's not going anywhere. There will always be some mutations. It's recessive. So even if no ginger babies show up for a while, it will appear maybe even generations later. So it's just a sneaky trait in the gene pool and it can pop up anytime, both parents or carriers

Jordan Harbinger: genetic roulette.

It's like a genetic dating app matching you with a partner that is 98% compatible to make a child that has red hair. Wow,

Jessica Wynn: you're [00:52:00] joking. But there are ginger only dating sites,

Jordan Harbinger: no surprise.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. One's called redhead dates.com. Clever.

Jordan Harbinger: Very clever.

Jessica Wynn: There's a, there's a few others for people with that redhead fetish, which is just bizarre to me.

Jordan Harbinger: Ew.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Uh, I will say, at least in my experience, you know, people who are into redheads are like. Enthusiastically into redheads. I, I don't think you need a dating app. I think you just go to a bar probably, but mm-hmm. Any dating site that defines people based on a single physical trait is gross.

Jordan Harbinger: I tend to agree, I should probably go ahead and cancel my subscription to third nipples only.com.

But how do they, so you'd have to account for all the different shades of red hair, right? Like strawberry, blonde, fiery red. The variables seem almost impossible to control. And then it's like, oh, I only want natural redhead, so I filter by natural or d like, that's so weird.

Jessica Wynn: Right? And the, there's just so many different shades and that's [00:53:00] all about variations.

And the mc one R gene, and as I've aged my hair shade has definitely changed. It's, it used to be so crazy bright when I was little. Now it's, you know, a bit dulled down and however the pigment works, redheads skip the part of hair going gray and they just fade to bright white. There's other redheaded statistics that might surprise you, like.

Redheads are more likely to be in commercials.

Jordan Harbinger: What? That's a weird one, I suppose.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I know. But a, a 2014 report found that 30% of TV commercials during prime time featured redheads despite being only 2% of the population. And at one point CBS showed a redhead every 106 seconds.

Jordan Harbinger: You gotta wonder who measured that.

That is bananas. That's cra. Were you ever in a commercial?

Jessica Wynn: When I was a kid, I was.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh wow.

Jessica Wynn: Now that I work in the entertainment industry. I spend a lot of time on studio lots and I get a surprising amount of extra work thrown out to [00:54:00] me for someone not interested in being an actor. So I do pop up in the background on shows like, like that HBO show, the Pit I was in.

There's a lot of studio audience shots I get pulled into.

Jordan Harbinger: They pull you into it, so they're like, we're filming the audience, but everyone has dark hair. Go get Jessica.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. PAs will come and be like, Hey, do you wanna sit in on this for a minute? Just for these, you know, shows to pan across the audience.

Yeah. They pan across the audience, not in real time. So yeah, you get pulled into it. It's hilarious. There's a show called Platonic that recently wanted all the redheads around for a wedding reception scene because the male character was a redhead. So they wanted to make it seem like the whole family was redheads, which, not quite how it looks in the real world, but it was fun and, and it was cool to see on film, just a whole room full of redhead.

You

Jordan Harbinger: know, I wonder if there's something red hair does for our senses. Does Wendy even know the Wendy, the fast food logo? Does she have red hair to entice me to buy a frosty or a burger?

Jessica Wynn: I mean, red is associated with appetite, so a lot of [00:55:00] restaurant logos use the color red. That could explain the high rate of redheads in advertising.

But so many cultural characters, you know, think about it, the Little Mermaid, Merida, the main character from Braid, Wilma Flintstone and her baby were redheads. And then of course Jessica Rabbit, strawberry Shortcake. The list just goes on. It makes the characters stand out, at least the female ones.

Jordan Harbinger: Not sure if that one is offensive or not.

There's a lot of anime men with red hair. I think. You know, it doesn't have to all be women.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, for sure. People just seem to like it more in a female. I'm not sure why Prince Charming and Beauty and the Beast was a redhead though. So good thing for redhead guys is that it's shown that redheads are funnier.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, clowns do tend to have red hair.

Jessica Wynn: Know? I know. I actually, my nephew is a redhead. My sister and her husband, neither of them are redheads. And my [00:56:00] brother-in-law definitely was uncomfortable with the fact that his son was a redhead, like when he was little, just, oh, it'd be easier if it was a girl. I don't know why that stigma exists.

Jordan Harbinger: Weird.

Jessica Wynn: But yeah, clowns have red hair according to, um, professor Andrew Scott, who teaches the history of comedy at the University of Buffalo. We first began to see the circus clown as we know it, complete with face paint and brightly colored wigs in the early 19th century. The wigs needed to be bright so that they could be seen from the backs of these large theaters.

So red was just the obvious choice.

Jordan Harbinger: I see. It is easy to keep track of my redheaded friends and crowds. You ever go to a rave or something? You're like, how am I gonna find, oh, there he is.

Jessica Wynn: Oh yeah. People always, there's 3000

Jordan Harbinger: people. There's 10,000 people here. How am I gonna find him? Well, there's three redheads, so I've never

Jessica Wynn: been lost.

Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, we don't really blend in. Right. And as clowns evolved, red hair just became symbolic. It reflects the cultural image of the influx of [00:57:00] Irish immigrants in early American history. Because like Ronald McDonald for example, that's spelled the Irish Way, not the Scottish way.

Jordan Harbinger: So you're not a witch, you're just designed differently.

Redheads aren't cursed. They're supercharged mutants with vitamin D skills and pain quirks.

Jessica Wynn: Exactly. And maybe don't make fun of your redheaded coworker. She might live longer than you, but

Jordan Harbinger: look older.

Jessica Wynn: She might look older, but she might feel less pain. She might be better in bed. So just be nice. We can't help it.

And the research that has been done on the world's Gingers indicate that they do put up with a lot and could be considered genetic superheroes. So it might not be the type of thing Marvel would take an interest in, but the bodies of redheads are incredibly resilient as their altered genes give them different DNA and by extension, a host of other unique abilities.

And we don't need a radioactive animal bite. We're just born this way.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, to all my ginger friends out there, may your sunscreen be thick and your Mc one [00:58:00] r genes be proud. Thanks, Jess. Stay pasty. Thanks everyone for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to meJordan@jordanharbinger.com.

Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can find Jessica on her Substacks, plural, Between the Lines and Where Shadows Linger. We'll link to that in the show notes. I guess you can't have just one Substack, Jessica.

God forbid. This show has created an association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Tadas Sidlauskas, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and yes, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Of course, we try to get these episodes as right as we can.

Not everything is gospel, even if it might be fact checked. So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and wellbeing. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today.

Any redheaded friends or [00:59:00] family would be good candidates for this one, I think. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like podcast. What does it feel like to watch your house burn down, be attacked by an alligator, or learn that your spouse hired someone to kill you?

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