974: Emotional Support Animals | Skeptical Sunday

974: Emotional Support Animals | Skeptical Sunday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger and this is Skeptical Sunday — a special edition of The Jordan Harbinger Show, where a rotating co-host and I break down a topic you might have never thought about, open things up and debunk common misconceptions. Topics such as why the Olympics are kind of a sham, why expiration dates on food are complete nonsense, why tipping makes no sense. Fast fashion, weddings, recycling, banned foods, toothpaste, chemtrails, and a whole lot more. Normally on The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people, and we help turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We have long form interviews and conversations with a variety of incredible people, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. If you're new to the show, our starter packs are a great place to begin. These are collections of our favorite episodes organized by topics that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Topics like persuasion, influence, China, North Korea, scams and conspiracy debunks, abnormal psychology, crime and cults, and more. Just visit jordanharbinger.com/start, or take a look in your Spotify app to get started.

[00:01:10] Today on this edition of Skeptical Sunday, it is undeniable that the number of emotional support animals has skyrocketed in recent years, but as the number increases, so does the skepticism around them. Emotional support animals are now part of the tapestry of American life. Animals are in restaurants. They're at the mall. They're up and down the aisles of supermarkets urinating on things. The growing presence of so many animals in these businesses has become an issue for a lot of people. Are all these emotional support animals really necessary? Are pet owners simply exploiting the privileges given to service animals? Well, today, comedian Michael Regilio is here to break down what is broken down with America's emotional support animal culture.

[00:01:52] Michael Regilio: Hello, Jordan.

[00:01:53] Jordan Harbinger: Hi.

[00:01:54] Michael Regilio: Tell me if this sounds familiar. You're sitting in a crowded restaurant, enjoying an overpriced hors d'oeuvre when you notice a dog at the next table. This is not a service dog. A service animal is a highly trained animal like a visually impaired person would have. What is sitting next to you is just an average pet. The sign out front clearly reads "No pets allowed," but not eight inches from your jalapeno poppers is a slobbering panting dog. Perhaps you're allergic to dogs. Perhaps you're afraid of dogs. Perhaps the smell and behavior of an animal is not the vibe you had in mind when you made the reservation. You might wonder, "How is this happening?" But if you've been in the United States of America in the last 10 years, you know the answer. This is an emotional support animal. And they're not just in restaurants, they're everywhere. They're on planes. They're on trains. They're at the gym, the doctor's office, the clothing store, the grocery store, the freaking miniature train specialty shop. Life in America today means sharing every imaginable space with people's emotional support animals.

[00:02:57] Jordan Harbinger: You can find them anywhere. And I wasn't joking at the top of the show. I have seen them at grocery stores pissing on things, growling in toddlers' faces, and scaring the crap out of them. Trying to tear open food with their mouths. I mean, these are not trained animals.

[00:03:12] Michael Regilio: Right. And I've witnessed the same thing. And the fact of the matter is no government institution actually keeps track of this stuff. But a study from the University of California showed a 1000 percent increase in the number of emotional support animals registered by animal control facilities in the state.

[00:03:28] Jordan Harbinger: California. Come for the beaches and stay for the emotional support lemurs or whatever.

[00:03:35] Michael Regilio: Right. And it's important to stress the difference between support animals and service animals. So let's define our terms. An easy way to think about the difference is, service animals do, and support animals are.

[00:03:49] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. What do you mean by that?

[00:03:50] Michael Regilio: Service animals do things that are a benefit to their handler. They guide the blind. Alert the deaf. Retrieve items for people with mobility issues. Warned about impending cardiac episodes or seizures, and help people with disabilities in a myriad of miraculous and impressive ways. These dogs are amazing. They make Lassie look like a crack addict, cleaning windshields with a dirty ragg at an intersection.

[00:04:14] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Alright. I get that you're impressed with service dogs. I think you're being a little rough on Lassie, but you know, that's just me.

[00:04:21] Michael Regilio: Look, all I'm trying to say is service animals are not magical. They require intensive training and certification by the state, not just to say they're trained to do your taxes or whatever, but they're trained to behave amongst the public. No one has to worry about a certified service animal becoming aggressive or loud or defecating in a shared space. It ain't going to happen. Conversely, support animals just are. They have no training. And very often, they just are the ordinary pets of people exploiting the rules.

[00:04:54] Jordan Harbinger: So that's a bold statement right there. There's no doubt that emotional support animals help some people. Maybe someone's going to have a panic attack, but their cat helps them calm down or something, right? Isn't there something to this?

[00:05:04] Michael Regilio: Actually, no. That's debatable and we'll get into that. The problem though, I'm talking about initially here, is the explosion of ordinary people taking advantage of the laws that govern service animals. Most of us know someone who just sent away for a certificate online and now brings their dog with them everywhere.

[00:05:24] Jordan Harbinger: I know a few people who fit that bill. I guess we all do. But if the law provides for it and they have the certification, what's the problem? What's the big deal?

[00:05:32] Michael Regilio: Alright, let's start with what the law actually allows. According to the Americans with Disabilities Act or ADA, a service dog can legally accompany their handlers almost anywhere. Emotional support animals don't have the same ADA protection. Congress passed the Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990 to provide disabled Americans with the dignity of not having to explain their service animal and their personal disability to every shopkeep and server. It made it illegal to ask a person what their disability is or to see the dog certification. And made it so the denial of a legitimate service animal, which can legally only be a dog, or in some cases a miniature horse, will land you a hundred thousand dollars fine by the DOJ.

[00:06:17] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay. A hundred grand in trouble with the DOJ. Doesn't sound worth the hassle. You know, I got to ask about the horse thing though.

[00:06:25] Michael Regilio: Okay. First, do yourself a favor and Google images of miniature service horses because they are beyond adorable. Second, service horses make perfect sense. Horses have been guiding humans for thousands of years. They might take a bit more time to train, but they do many things better than dogs. They have 350 degrees of peripheral vision.

[00:06:45] Jordan Harbinger: Really?

[00:06:45] Michael Regilio: Yeah. They're stronger than dogs, so they can carry things a dog can't. And they can pull a wheelchair. Plus, miniature horses have a much longer lifespan. So the $20,000 it costs to train a guide animal gives you more bang for your buck with a horse. On average, service dogs have a lifespan of about 12 years, while service horses can live anywhere from 30 to 40 years. And did I mention how f*cking adorable they are?

[00:07:11] Jordan Harbinger: How do you fly with a service horse? That's what I want to know.

[00:07:15] Michael Regilio: You know what? I mean, it is done. I've seen pictures, but I don't know. That is a tricky one.

[00:07:20] Jordan Harbinger: So instead of a seeing eye horse, are they called a seehorse? Anyone? No? Alright.

[00:07:26] Michael Regilio: There's someone out there that like that. I assure you.

[00:07:28] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe one person.

[00:07:29] Michael Regilio: Oh look, I liked it then. Okay. Look, the bottom line is, the law is there to protect disabled Americans. It's one big, "Don't mess with Americans with disabilities." it's a great thing. So when a person shows up with a dog at some establishment, the business owners and the employees have to weigh the consequences of engaging with them. Almost always, it's just easier to allow the animal in and hope the other patrons will be okay with their allergies or fears or my personal issue, having to look at your dog's assh*le as I'm trying to eat my a hundred dollars lunch.

[00:08:00] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. But maybe, maybe it's just you being the assh*le here. If the emotional support animals are helping, shouldn't you just be cool with it? Stop being such a wimp and enjoy the view while you're chowing down on your crawler donut.

[00:08:13] Michael Regilio: Look, unless it's a genuine service animal, no one should be cool with it. The law doesn't provide for bringing emotional support animals into restaurants. It just doesn't. Yet many websites selling certification letters blur the lines between service animal and emotional support animals and offer to certify your pet as an emotional support animal. But here's the thing, according to the Fair Housing Act, no certification or registration or formal training is required. It just takes a doctor's note to get an emotional support animal.

[00:08:45] Jordan Harbinger: Well, but the doctor's note doesn't turn a pet into a service animal, at least not in terms of making your pet suddenly stop scratching people or taking food off their plate or barking or peeing on the chair legs or trying to eat fruit at the grocery store, or whatever the hell. The doctor's note's not going to change the animal.

[00:09:00] Michael Regilio: Correct. Only extensive training turns a pet into a legally certified service animal. And here's the thing about emotional support animals. You can register as many emotional support animals as you want. There are no specific guidelines. If your therapist agrees that all your pets are there for your wellbeing, then you can have as many emotional support animals as you want.

[00:09:20] Jordan Harbinger: So are you saying then that there are no legal allowances for emotional support animals?

[00:09:25] Michael Regilio: The ADA doesn't acknowledge emotional support animals at all. However, the Fair Housing Act provides the right for an emotional support animal to live with its owner even if the housing doesn't allow pets. Until recently, the Federal Air Carrier Access Act included vague language that allowed people to manipulate the act and bring emotional support animals on planes. In 2020, the act was updated to specifically state that emotional support animals are not included in the definition of a service animal. Although a doctor's note is needed for a genuine emotional support animal to travel on some airlines, no legal certification exists. There is no legal certification. Anyone claiming otherwise is a scam artist. I. Even if you have a letter from your doctor, you still can't bring an animal into restaurants, theaters, or a freaking Ferris wheel.

[00:10:16] Jordan Harbinger: But companies are issuing these certificates. That's just a grift, yeah?

[00:10:20] Michael Regilio: Right. And people are buying them. I went to a few websites and these companies know they're being dishonest. From the get-go, they're sowing confusion about the difference between service dogs and emotional support animals. They offer official looking vests, letters, patches, very often with the claim that these accreditations, you can bring your animal almost anywhere. But if you read the small print, these sites, they all know that they're being tricky. They say, "This is not legally binding, but don't worry. Just show people this vest or this badge. They won't question you." They literally write it on the website. This is not legal, but it's great for bullsh*t and they're right most of the time. Like I said, the gatekeepers are usually reluctant to challenge people with animals.

[00:11:04] Jordan Harbinger: That is insane. So I understand the position the gatekeepers are in. I do. If somebody has an emotional support animal, they're telling you they have an emotional problem who wants to engage a stranger who's also your customer, potentially, on a personal issue like that. Especially if you might actually be in the wrong and then you get yourself fired or you get this big ass fine. It's just easier, most of the time, probably to let that person, that super annoying, entitled person, just have their way.

[00:11:30] Michael Regilio: Exactly. I mean, it puts clerks and restaurant workers in an impossible position and it's expensive. Those certification websites aren't cheap. There's the basic fee for a letter. So as long as you have 80 bucks and a couple minutes, you can get a certification letter from this non-government, non-official website. And if you want your pet in a no pets building or a dorm or something, that will cost you extra, and they set you up with a quote, "Mental health professional" who will give you a diagnosis. But again, the letter is just good for housing and some landlords are catching on and turning these bullsh*t letters down. They want your actual doctor to write you a letter. There's a new law in California that you have to have a doctor patient relationship established to get one of these letters.

[00:12:13] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, but there is a doctor involved in the certification, right?

[00:12:17] Michael Regilio: I mean, kind of. There are complaints stating that when people look up the accreditation of doctors from these sites, they don't even exist. They can't find these doctors. And with the emotional support certificates, you sometimes don't need to see a doctor. You just fill out this questionnaire online. And supposedly, a doctor looks at it and says, "Yeah, this counts." But sometimes you get a three-minute telehealth meeting on Zoom, that's going to cost you more,

[00:12:38] of course.

[00:12:38] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:39] Michael Regilio: And there are complaints after complaints about these sites and bogus certifications. I can't stress this enough. There are no legal certifications.

[00:12:47] Jordan Harbinger: You know what won't rip your face off on an airline, Michael, the sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:12:56] This episode is sponsored in part by SimpliSafe. Yes, spring. The magical time when flowers bloom, birds sing, and my SimpliSafe security system ensures the only thing sneaking into my house is all that pollen getting my allergies going. Honestly, the peace of mind SimpliSafe gives me lets me enjoy all those spring activities without worrying about my home safety. It's like having a vigilant albeit less furry guard dog that never sleeps. SimpliSafe has bagged best home security systems of 2024 by US News and World Report. Newsweek awarded it, "Best customer service and home security." It's not just about keeping the boogeyman at bay, the system is like a Swiss Army knife for home safety. Keeping an eye out for fires, floods and more. Because I know you're thinking like, "Oh, how often do people break in?" Actually, it's more like fires and floods and broken stuff that many of you're going to want to know about. They got an array of sensors and cameras. It actually is really nice to be able to let your cat sitter in and be like, "Is she doing anything weird in there?" Also for less than the price of a daily coffee, you get 24/7 professional monitoring that's going to scare off any intruder or errant cat sitter by talking to them through a camera, saying something along the lines of, "Smile, you're on camera and don't you insert that in my cat. How dare you." Plus, with no contracts and 60-day money-back guarantee, can't really beat it.

[00:13:58] Jen Harbinger: SimpliSafe has given us and many of our listeners real peace of mind. We want you to have it too. Get 20 percent off your system today when you sign up for Fast Protect monitoring at simplisafe.com/jordan. That's simplisafe.com/jordan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[00:14:14] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. How's that social battery feeling these days? You're running on empty, you fully powered up, you an introvert, extrovert. Does that stuff even exist? Does it really even matter? As the weather gets nicer, it seems like everyone's trying to max out their social calendars. What is the right amount of socializing? What does it look like? Are you about the crowd energy? You maybe want to cherish a little alone time? This is where therapy, especially the help BetterHelp provides comes into play. It's not only for tackling a major life crisis. Sure if you run into a big problem, get therapy obviously, but it's also about figuring out what you need socially, establishing boundaries, enforcing them, that's kind of the key to boundaries, finding the best ways to recharge. BetterHelp makes therapy accessible for the 21st century. It's all online. It's adaptable, designed to fit your schedule. This is — I've gotten so many positive emails from people that have used this and their life is not the same after therapy. And I know that they're sponsor and all that, but like therapy is the real deal, y'all. I mean, I've done it for a long time. I think it's super healthy and I think a lot of us usually go there when it's too late. So definitely dip your toes in the water over here with BetterHelp.

[00:15:12] Jen Harbinger: Find your social sweet spot with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan today to get 10 percent off your first month. That's betterH-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:15:21] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here and keeps my support peacock fed. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for the sponsors using the search box on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show.

[00:15:39] Now back to Skeptical Sunday.

[00:15:43] This seems to raise some ethical questions, to say the least. You know what it reminds me of? Remember back in the day before we had recreational marijuana use, we had the medical cards, and you could go on some website. You'd literally just go, "Hi, I'd like to see the doctor because I get headaches." and they would have a bank of doctors and cubicles that would jump on, essentially a Zoom or Skype queue and talk to you. And I was doing an article about this for an online magazine. This is years ago. And I go and wait in the queue. It takes like five minutes. I paid 50 bucks or something, and the guy goes, "Jordan Harbinger! Oh my God, I'm a big fan of your show." And I was like, "Cool." I was trying to do this on the low to write this article for, I think it was like Maxim or something like that. The guy who shows up, the doctor's like, "Oh, I listen to your podcast all the time." And I was like, "And cover is blown." Anyway, I get headaches and I eat weed. And he was like, "No problem." Ca-ching. And then I had a medical marijuana card that I could have used to buy marijuana, but I wasn't really doing that. I just wanted to see how easy it was and then write about it. It was ridiculous, all around, and kind of embarrassing at the end of the day.

[00:16:45] Michael Regilio: Yeah, I mean, I had a medical marijuana license back in the day as well, and I'm going to go — I'm going to be honest with you, Jordan, when I say that I did use it for the — to purchase marijuana. But it did — you're so right about how BS this was. For my form, when it said, "What ailment are you trying to cure with marijuana?" I said, "The anxious feeling of not being high," and the doctor signed it.

[00:17:07] Jordan Harbinger: Oh no, that's terrible. It sounds like you were both high at that point.

[00:17:12] Michael Regilio: Probably. Look, both parties in the emotional support animal transaction are there for selfish reasons, in my opinion. The healthcare practitioner is there because he has the desire to make a quick buck. The patient has the desire to take their incredibly average dog everywhere. Two assh*les. Actually, the dog's exposed butthole in a restaurant makes three, which gets me to my next point. The downside for everybody else stuck around a person's support dog.

[00:17:41] Jordan Harbinger: So I love dogs, even most other people's dogs. Look, I know not everyone does. Sometimes they have a good reason, aside from being allergic, or they're just not into dogs. Some people have trauma from being attacked by a dog, and it is different sitting next to somebody who's got an emotional support Yorkie, who's just kind of sleeping on their lap, versus somebody who's got a giant, massive dog. There's a person who goes to the park and lets their dog run around off leash. It's a big ass Rottweiler. And she's like, "He's fine. He would lick you to death before anything." And I'm like, "Well, I'm not going to take your word for it over the safety of all these toddlers playing in the baby area, or your dog who's off leash loves to run into because he's so friendly." it's like he could just kill someone before you can react because you're off 50 yards away. Why should we believe you? So I talked with her and now I'm like the park Karen. But after I said something, all these parents came up and they're like, "Thank you. She does this all the time. And we don't know how to handle this." because there a bunch of — there's a lot of immigrants in my neighborhood, Chinese, Indian, et cetera. And they're like, "We don't want to cause trouble." And I'm like, "No, you're not wrong. She's wrong for doing this." And all these kids are, a lot of 'em are terrified because there's a dog that's three times their weight chasing them. It's stuff like this that causes the problem. What is it? The bad apples spoils the whole bunch.

[00:18:56] Michael Regilio: This is what gets me personally, is that sense of entitlement like that almost all the people with emotional support dog — like my needs over yours, no matter what.

[00:19:06] Jordan Harbinger: It's not even needs, it's straight up convenience.

[00:19:08] Michael Regilio: Yeah.

[00:19:08] Jordan Harbinger: Like no one needs to have their pet there. They just want it. And everybody else gets to pay the price because I like my dog and I don't want to go somewhere without my dog. Period.

[00:19:16] Michael Regilio: Of course. But even if you took them at face value that this is a need, an emotional support need, it does put it above everyone else's needs.

[00:19:23] Jordan Harbinger: That's true.

[00:19:23] Michael Regilio: According to a 2019 Forbes article, the top complaints from airline passengers employees are about untrained dogs being dogs. It turns out travelers don't love the barking, growling, biting, urinating, defecating in airports and on planes. Airlines reported an 84 percent rise in dog related incidents from 2016 to 2018. On a Delta flight in 2017, a passenger's emotional support dog attacked another passenger, seriously injuring him.

[00:19:53] Jordan Harbinger: That's really scary. The dogs I've come across on planes are actually pretty docile. Most of the time they're sleeping. Worst thing I've experienced is a cat actually got loose once and I think snuggled some unsuspecting folks, and it is a little jarring to wake up from a nap because a cat is walking, you know, doing that thing with their tail around your legs. If you don't like cats or you're allergic, I suppose that would be really annoying. Another time I had to step over a sleeping dog on the way to the bathroom. I mean, you know, gasp. But this sounds bad though. What happened to that guy who got attacked? How did that happen?

[00:20:22] Michael Regilio: This guy sat in his cramped window seat. We've all been there. And the middle seat was occupied by a 50 pound dog.

[00:20:30] Jordan Harbinger: 50 pounds. Okay. That's like a Rottweiler or Beethoven or something like that. Maybe not quite.

[00:20:36] Michael Regilio: It's a big dog. I think this one was a pit bull mix, if I'm not mistaken. But before the plane even took off — yeah, they're big and they can be — when they get violent, and I know pit bulls get a bad reputation. I've known pit bulls. I've loved pit bulls. I know that it's not necessarily a trait of pit bulls when they get violent, but because of their massive jaws. When they do get violent, they're particularly dangerous. And before this plane even took off, the dog began growling at the man. When he complained, he was told nothing could be done. It was an emotional support dog. Before the plane even took off, the dog lunged at the man's face and mauled him. They rushed him to the hospital and it took 28 stitches to treat the gashes. The report states that there was so much blood, the entire row of seats had to be replaced.

[00:21:23] Jordan Harbinger: Man, I feel bad for the guy, but also I would be really pissed if my flight was delayed because of an untrained pet, but this is just one incident. It's not the norm. I do hope the resulting lawsuit taught everyone involved an expensive lesson because that's — I feel — God, can you imagine getting attacked like that? I've hoped he sued the sh*t out of the airline. I do.

[00:21:43] Michael Regilio: I'm pretty sure he did. And the story actually — I don't know why it's even more heartbreaking when you find out that the dog mauled the guy's face. They pulled the dog off of the guy and then the dog got away a second time and mauled him twice.

[00:21:57] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God.

[00:21:58] Michael Regilio: "Dude, when you get the dog off me, just keep it off me. Clearly it wants to eat my face." I don't know. It just sounds incredibly traumatic.

[00:22:05] Jordan Harbinger: Also, if you can't control the dog that you have, you can't go around with the dog that you have. This woman at the park, again, she was perfectly nice, but she, again, you know, entitled, she weighs maybe like 110 pounds. She's very small, so she has the dog for probably, there's a self-defense, you know, personal protection element there. But the problem is, if her giant dog that weighs more than her decides to attack a toddler, she can't do anything about it unless she's going to throw herself in between the dog and the toddler, and then also get — I mean, she can't control the dog. This dog is so strong that it yanks on the leash when she's walking it to the park, and she's jerking forward and barely holding on until she lets the dog off the leash. She has absolutely no control over this dog.

[00:22:49] Michael Regilio: The fact of the matter is these events are not that rare, as you've witnessed. The Washington Post reported an emotional support dog on a Southwest Airlines flight, bit a 6-year-old girl in the face during boarding.

[00:22:59] Jordan Harbinger: Oof.

[00:23:00] Michael Regilio: There's many examples like this document, and it's not just for dog bites. Another flight from LAX to Philly landed mid journey because an emotional support dog sh*t so much that they ran out of cleaning supplies, which caused some passengers to puke.

[00:23:15] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God.

[00:23:16] Michael Regilio: They made it as far as Kansas City before an emergency landing.

[00:23:19] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my god, that's really gross. I've been on some sh*t flights, but that's beyond acceptable. To be fair. Flying US Airways has made me want to puke as well, and that's before being locked in a flying aluminum tube with a diarrhea machine.

[00:23:34] Michael Regilio: By the way, if you actually suffer from anxiety, what is going to happen when your dog bites a stranger on a plane and you're forced to make an emergency landing? It's getting out of control. The really ironic thing is, for most of these people, they give the animal that's supposed to be curbing their anxiety, anxiety medication before the flight.

[00:23:53] Jordan Harbinger: Right, right. Like my emotional support animal needs an emotional support prescription. If your prescription for anxiety needs a prescription for anxiety, where does it end? I guess that's where I'm going with this.

[00:24:04] Michael Regilio: All these incidents led to the changes in 2020 when the Department of Transportation finally tightened the rules.

[00:24:11] Jordan Harbinger: I am starting to see why it's problematic that the animals themselves require no training. I hadn't really thought about it before. I thought, "Okay, you got your stupid certificate, fine. Bring it in Nordstrom. No big deal. If it pees, clean it up or tell someone and they'll clean it up." It sucks, but whatever. I mean, the grocery store stuff is annoying because they're damaging product and making it so that other people can't buy or use it. Well, first of all, I didn't know that they brought these on planes and they attacked people. That's terrible. And it just seems to be getting worse.

[00:24:36] Michael Regilio: And humans aren't the only victims. Service dogs, real service dogs are now exposed to untrained dogs everywhere they go. The Counseling Today journal records incidents of their study of the emotional support animal epidemic and reported that in 2017, an emotional support poodle bit an actual service dog that was calmly sitting next to its wheelchaired handler in the elevator of a pet restricted building.

[00:24:58] Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. So the dog wasn't even supposed to be there. The other person had a service dog because they needed it, and this dog is getting bit by this poodle, which makes it so I assume the service dog can't really do his job when he is being attacked by another animal that's not supposed to be there. Some of the service animals really are incredible. They say now that there are dogs that can detect seizures before they happen and give you warning. There are dogs — my aunt was hard of hearing. This dog would know when there's a fire. It could wake her up. It could tell her when someone was at the door. I mean, these are really, really incredible and incredibly well-trained animals that are kind of just a marvel, really. And so anything that interferes with that work is obviously terrible. Even some of them who walk around, helping visually impaired people have signs on them that say things like, "Don't pet me. I'm working." And it's kind of sad that they need that, but I also understand because they're also cute and you want to pet them and you forget that they're helping this person cross a busy intersection in Manhattan or something along those lines. So it starts to look like Americans with disabilities are the ones suffering the most from all of this. Because for me, it's like a minor inconvenience. For a shopkeeper, it's annoying. Possibly cost them a little bit of money. But for somebody who has a service dog with them, then it's kind of like there might as well be a hole in the road when you're driving. You can't go around this with the help that you have. That sucks.

[00:26:17] Michael Regilio: Right. And that's why disabled people are the biggest advocates to do something about the phony, emotional support animals everywhere. One woman interviewed by the New Yorker said, "I'm shocked by the number of people who go online and buy their pets vests meant for working dogs. These dogs snarl and go after my dog. They set me up for failure because people then assume my dog is going to act up."

[00:26:38] Jordan Harbinger: You know, I hadn't thought about that. So now you see a service dog that's guiding somebody who can't walk or is blind or has a real disability, and it's like, "Ah, and not another a-h*le bringing their dog into Whole Foods." that also sucks. I hadn't even thought about that. So it sounds like she's saying, so-called emotional support animals. Yeah. They tarnish the reputation of genuine service dogs that had not occurred to us, dude.

[00:26:58] Michael Regilio: Yeah. And these people that take their quote-unquote "emotional support animals" everywhere, they don't really have good reasons for it. They say they don't want to leave their pets home alone, or they don't want to hire a dog walker, or they don't want their pets to have to ride in a plane's cargo hold. None of these are a valid reason for an animal to accompany someone everywhere, and they give service animals a bad name. A disabled man on Twitter accounts for every time that his legitimate service animal is questioned or he's given grief about it and he's convinced it's because of all the fake service animals out there. And none of what we discussed, by the way, even gets at the real issue that you brought up earlier that I said I'd get back to. Do they work? Do emotional support animals actually do what some say?

[00:27:45] Jordan Harbinger: I've always heard that having a pet can reduce loneliness and make a person happier. So for me, it's not a stretch to think that they can also lower anxiety and help with other conditions. And I would imagine if you have real anxiety, like you have panic attacks or whatever, can your dog sense that or your cat sense that and then snuggle up with you and distract you from that? Isn't that — it seems logical to me, but again, I've done like zero research on this.

[00:28:09] Michael Regilio: Well, you know what? The evidence to support the notion that they do anything is surprisingly weak. In fact, there are mental health care professionals who feel that in some cases, emotional support animals are doing harm in treating a person. Molly Crossman, a psychology researcher at Yale, published a paper in which she says, "The clearest conclusion in the field is that we cannot yet draw clear conclusions."

[00:28:32] Jordan Harbinger: I got to love quotes like that.

[00:28:34] Michael Regilio: And mind you, this is all research on dogs. There is no research on support peacocks or snakes or African toads.

[00:28:42] Jordan Harbinger: You know what won't force your plane into an emergency landing because it causes uncontrollable diarrhea and vomiting? Well, no guarantees, but many of the products and services that support this show fit that bill. We'll be right back.

[00:28:57] This episode is sponsored in part by NetSuite. As a business owner, NetSuite's kind of a revelation. Instead of managing disparate systems for everything from accounting to HR, NetSuite consolidates essential business functions into one cloud-based platform, significantly reducing IT and system maintenance costs. NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one platform, one source of truth, merging all major business processes into a single platform, cuts down on manual efforts, minimizes errors, something every business owner dreams of, and the results, the improved operational harmony and a healthier bottom line. Over 37,000 companies have shifted to NetSuite. I've seen the benefits firsthand. We used NetSuite back in the day with one of my companies. It's about doing more with less. All that stuff in one place. You cannot overstate how amazing that actually is. I think it could be one of the smartest financial moves for businesses, especially if you've got a lot of moving parts, and I think every business kind of does.

[00:29:48] Jen Harbinger: Now through April 15th, NetSuite is offering a one of a kind flexible financing program. Head to netsuite.com/jordan. netsuite.com/jordan. netsuite.com/jordan.

[00:29:59] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Progressive. Hey, y'all. Whether you love true crime or comedies, celebrity interviews, news, or even motivational speakers, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue, right? And guess what? Now you can call the shots on your auto insurance too. Enter the Name Your Price Tool from Progressive. The Name Your Price Tool puts you in charge of your auto insurance by working just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance, they show you a variety of coverage that fit within your budget, giving you options. That's something you're going to want to press play on. I didn't write the copy, folks. It's easy to start a quote. You'll be able to choose the best option for you, fast. It's just one of many ways you can save with Progressive Insurance. Quote today at progressive.com to try the Name Your Price Tool for yourself and join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Pricing coverage match limited by state law.

[00:30:42] Thanks again for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support this podcast are at jordanharbinger.com/deals, or use the AI search bot on the website to search for any promo code anywhere, anytime on the show.

[00:30:55] Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday.

[00:30:59] So when we hear about emotional support hamsters and emus and porcupines or whatever, I mean, I'm being a little flippant here, but this is just people pushing the system to the edge. I mean, I've seen people who have snakes and things like that, that they bring around, and that's supposed to be emotional support. I've definitely seen the cat thing a zillion times. They're just making that sh*t up. Whole cloth.

[00:31:19] Michael Regilio: Absolutely. There's a great article in The New Yorker about this. The reporter received an emotional support certificate and used it to take a turtle into a museum, and alpaca on the bus, and a pig on a plane. All intentionally to prove employees and owners of businesses fear questioning the validity of a person's claim.

[00:31:38] Jordan Harbinger: Pigs on a plane sounds like a job for Samuel L. Jackson. Anyone?

[00:31:41] Michael Regilio: He's tired of them Pigs.

[00:31:42] Jordan Harbinger: Tired of all these pigs on this plane. People are pretty entitled about bringing their pets in. Animals are absolutely everywhere. Again, the grocery store thing, I can't get that out of my mind because I just thought like, "When are they going to kick this person out?" And they didn't do anything. They just started moping up pee and throwing away torn open bags and stuff that the animal bit that had to be pointed out by customers, because you're not going to notice small teeth marks in a banana or whatever. You're not just — you're just going to go home and go, "What the hell is this?" And eat it. It's gross.

[00:32:10] Michael Regilio: And they're everywhere. They're not just in the grocery store. So, this is a funny story. An emotional support dog rushed the stage during a Broadway performance of, can't make this stuff up, Cats.

[00:32:21] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. A dog rushing the stage during a performance of Cats is kind of cool. I would pay to see that. I also understand the dog logic involved. It's like, "What's, what is that up there? I got to go see that up close. That looks like a person, but it looks like a cat or something else that I want to shred into little pieces." That was probably kind of exciting.

[00:32:39] Michael Regilio: Yeah, like I said, I would probably pay to see that too. Okay, I got one for you. Let me read you a headline I came across. It will blow your mind. A lady and her service kangaroo got kicked out of a McDonald's in Wisconsin.

[00:32:55] Jordan Harbinger: That sounds like a Mad Libs. Well, first of all, you said service kangaroo. Are we talking about an emotional support kangaroo though?

[00:33:00] Michael Regilio: Yeah, it was. There's no service kangaroos anywhere.

[00:33:03] Jordan Harbinger: Right. So they got that wrong. But it sounds like a Mad Libs. Remember those? It's not even a headline, it's just fill in the gaps — place, ridiculous animal, fast food chain. I mean, if there's no good research backing up these treatments, why are psychologists prescribing them? Is this just the marijuana card thing all over again? Like, "Sure. Here you go. 50 bucks."

[00:33:23] Michael Regilio: I mean, that is, in my opinion, one of the reasons that these doctors, at least the ones that on the telehealth services and the websites are doing it, it's just a money grab. Why your personal doctor might prescribe you one, I would imagine would be a much more — it would be based on their knowledge of you and hopefully based on their understanding of these treatments. The fact of the matter is, in psychology, they don't actually license treatments. They just license providers. Once you're licensed, you can pretty much prescribe any treatment you want, which explains why my psychologist in high school prescribed me to get beat up one good time.

[00:33:58] Jordan Harbinger: Really, that can't be true. Just once? I feel like you'd need several decent beatings to get your sh*t together, Michael Regilio. All right. Just maybe even three. Just solid good beatings would've done you well. Okay, so you said emotional support animals can actually be harmful to the person getting, supposedly getting the support from the animal. What's going on there? How does that work?

[00:34:20] Michael Regilio: Well, the fact of the matter is, there are treatments for anxiety that work really well. They involve having people face their fears gradually. In the end, it is the individual who overcomes their fear and gains a feeling of empowerment. Some psychologists have found that the support animal becomes a crutch. The patient concludes that they can only face the fear with Mitzi in their purse or Rex at my side. The emotional support animal kind of becomes Dumbo's feather.

[00:34:45] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, okay. Or in the case of emotional support birds, dumbo's feathers.

[00:34:49] Michael Regilio: Yes. And like Dumbo and the feather, you don't need it, and neither does the animal. Being on a plane or in a loud bar can be stressful for an animal. And if someone is emotionally crippled without their pet, are we doing them any favors by allowing that crutch? Being overly attached to your pet is concerning. If someone cannot be apart from their pet, there might be something else going on there, and we're just allowing it to fester.

[00:35:14] Jordan Harbinger: So we're enablers in a way, I guess.

[00:35:16] Michael Regilio: I mean, we are. If someone came into a restaurant and said they needed to be cutting themselves in order to feel calm, we'd say, "I want no part of that and get help." But if someone says They can't be without their emotional support Python, we say, "Bring it on."

[00:35:29] Jordan Harbinger: Well, it seems normalized and also it seems harmless. Again, I came into this thinking like, "Oh, who cares if somebody brings a little dog in a plane or at the restaurant and sleeps in their lap?" But I was thinking of best case scenario. There are other scenarios, obviously.

[00:35:42] Michael Regilio: Right. And here's the amazing thing. Some studies do show that petting an animal can have a calming effect as measured by the cortisol levels, which is how they measure stress levels. But the studies also showed blankets stuffed animals, and in one study, cute robots have the exact same effect.

[00:36:00] Jordan Harbinger: I would take my emotional support robot everywhere. And I guess also it doesn't pee on anyone or attack anyone.

[00:36:05] Michael Regilio: You know what? I actually want to bring back blankies. I love that.

[00:36:09] Jordan Harbinger: I have seen plenty of young adults with stuffed animals on their backs. Blankets are not that far of a stretch. And also, doubles is something that can keep you warm, especially on a plane.

[00:36:17] Michael Regilio: Blankets. Take a second look at blankies, everybody. I mean, I live in Los Angeles and emotional support animal culture is everywhere. There's a guy in my neighborhood who walks his emotional support duck on a leash. The other day, again, this is getting back to you in the grocery store, I personally watched a guy's dog shit on the indoor track at the gym. This is totally true. The guy's walking around the gym inside with his emotional support dog. I turned — dog is full-blown pooping, and the guy just took a paper towel, picked it up and threw it in the trash next to the exercise bikes. Everyone on the exercise bikes quickly got up and went and did some other exercise. I mean, it was crazy. You said you saw it in a grocery store not long ago, I saw that too. I watched a woman's dog piss all over a display case of potato chips, except she didn't even know it was happening. She was just on her phone looking.

[00:37:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:37:12] Michael Regilio: Like I had to go tell the cashier and she barely seemed interested. I was asking her because I was already researching the show. I was like, "Do you guys have a policy about this? This is just a woman's pet. This is not —" and she said. "There's nothing we can do."

[00:37:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's really gross, right? A dog peeing on the food that's for sale. Ah, it's so annoying. It's dishonest people taking advantage of a system that wasn't set up for them and now it seems like they're winning. So what can be done? Is there anything being done? Does anybody care besides the amendment that they made to the law for the airplanes and whatnot?

[00:37:43] Michael Regilio: I mean, there is a movement happening. People pretty much have had enough. As I said, there are new rules in place to reclassify support animals as pets and restrict free air travel to service animals only. A new law in California requires a mental health practitioner to have at least a 30 day relationship with a client before being allowed to prescribe an emotional support animal.

[00:38:02] Jordan Harbinger: That's a good idea.

[00:38:03] Michael Regilio: Yeah. At Delta now requires a note from a veterinarian, confirming the animal is trained and can be around people.

[00:38:09] Jordan Harbinger: I bet they do after the $18 million face-ripped-off lawsuit because of the dog biting the guy on Delta Airlines. That's why they have that. Unfortunately, it took that guy's poor face to get here. But yeah, that makes sense.

[00:38:22] Michael Regilio: But the fact of the matter is, more than anything in the legal realm, we can affect an actual change in the social realm. The stigma around bringing your pet into a restaurant under the protection of a law meant for trained service animals needs to be the same as we have for someone parking in a handicap spot. When you show up for a lunch date and your perfectly emotionally stable friend wants to bring in their Yorkie, just tell 'em, "Dude, I'm not cool with this."

[00:38:45] Jordan Harbinger: But it seems like there's no stigma attached to bringing your dog everywhere. I feel, man, you would look like such an ass being like, "Get that dog out of here." that's behaving.

[00:38:53] Michael Regilio: Right. And it's a new phenomenon. Since the ADA was passed in 1990, the door has opened all this manipulation and scams society managed before the support animal craze. The signs didn't read, "Keep calm and carry your ferret everywhere." If we want to have a discussion about allowing dogs and animals into more of our daily lives in society, okay, that's fair. But the dishonesty of the emotional support animal community is just gross. The reporter from the New Yorker who brought turtles and alpacas into restaurants said her friends with emotional support animals were mad at her for writing the article because she was going to ruin the scam for everyone. One of her friends told her — he admitted that if his dog isn't allowed somewhere, he just lies and makes up a condition and says that without his dog, he will pass out and piss himself.

[00:39:45] Jordan Harbinger: That's really gross. Not just the pissing yourself apart, but it's so despicable to lie like that, just to get your way. That is peak entitlement. Speaking of people who could use one good beating, that guy sounds like a total a-h*le. But looking around the article, it didn't seem to ruin the scam. I mean, it just sort of fed our show material here, but obviously it didn't solve anything.

[00:40:07] Michael Regilio: No, it's still a battle. In fact, Corey Hudson, the CEO of Canine Companions for Independence, a nonprofit provider of trained assistance animals has declared war on fake assistance dogs. His organization submitted a petition to the Department of Justice, requesting that it consider setting up a registration like the Department of Motor Vehicles to test and certify all assistance dogs. The DOJ responded that they think the current law is adequate.

[00:40:33] Jordan Harbinger: People are so used to dogs being everywhere. I just — it might have to be the new way, but there's got to — you got to be able to do something about a dog growling at your kids when you're at a restaurant paying and the dog's not even fricking supposed to be there.

[00:40:44] Michael Regilio: I mean, it's a little bit like putting the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. Some universities are getting more strict about okaying emotional support animals in their dorms. At Northern Michigan University, Mike Rutledge meets with every student to ascertain whether they simply bought a certificate online or really have a relationship with a therapist, which he requires. The best part of this though, is Rutledge is a 22-year-old army veteran who has mobility issues and is assisted by a service animal.

[00:41:11] Jordan Harbinger: I would imagine it's hard to bullsh*t a guy like that, but you know what sucks is, this guy's got to waste his time, possibly even make this another part-time job on top of everything else he has to do, to verify that somebody's not just being an entitled prick. Then again, it's college. You probably need a small army of people to make sure that kids at that age are not being entitled pricks. I certainly was an entitled prick. I just hadn't thought to get a dog and make that my accomplice at the time, but I probably would've, now that I think about it.

[00:41:40] Michael Regilio: Right. But people could only buy what is sold. There needs to be a crackdown on these bullsh*t sites selling bullsh*t letters. But in the end, any laws regarding emotional support animals have to be enforced.

[00:41:52] Jordan Harbinger: Or we're all in the doghouse, aren't we?

[00:41:56] Michael Regilio: Indeed we are, Jordan.

[00:41:57] Jordan Harbinger: People thought they were going to get away with no puns. Nuh uh, not this time. Alright.

[00:42:04] You're about to hear a preview of my interview with a former FBI agent on how he gets people to reveal the truth.

[00:42:10] Jack Schafer: With elicitation, people don't realize that you're using elicitation techniques on them. You're just setting up a psychological environment that predisposes them to want to tell you information they wouldn't otherwise tell you.

[00:42:23] Typically, elicitation doesn't use questions. There's a human predisposition to correct others. If I want to get information from you, I will just give you what we call a "presumptive statement." You're going to corroborate and say, "Yes, that's true," or you're going to say, "No, that's not true. It's this." We'll tell our students, "See that person over there? Go get their pin numbers for their bank accounts." If I can get some stranger to like me, the brain automatically ascribes all the rights and privileges of a friendship that took maybe years to develop.

[00:42:54] Jordan Harbinger: For more on how you can use elicitation techniques used by the FBI to negotiate better salaries and more, check out episode 467 on The Jordan Harbinger Show with Jack Schafer.

[00:43:06] Michael Regilio, thank you so much. That was enlightening and a little annoying because now I feel like I have to be even more of the part Karen, but at least I know I'm right now and that she's wrong. That always feels good.

[00:43:17] Topic suggestions, jordan@jordanharbinger.com. This I think, was a fan suggested topic. If not, it was a darn good one, either way. Email us with your suggestions. We would love to consider it for the show. A link to the show notes for the episode with all our research sources can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts also in the show notes. I'm @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Michael Regilio is @MichaelRegilio on Instagram or at michaelregiliocomedy.com. Tour dates are up now as well. Since nobody can spell "Regilio", the link to that will be in the show notes as well.

[00:43:51] This show has created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who needs to hear it. Like somebody who puts up with other people's annoying emotional support animals because they feel like the law is going to make them do it. They need to know that that's not true. Or share it with somebody who has an emotional support animal so they can leave us a really, really nasty one star review on their favorite podcast app of choice.

[00:44:29] In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:44:39] Thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Learn more at nissanusa.com.

[00:44:45] Adam Carolla: Hey buddy.

[00:44:46] Dr. Drew Pinsky: Hey buddy.

[00:44:47] Adam Carolla: What's going on, man?

[00:44:48] Dr. Drew Pinsky: Hi guy.

[00:44:49] Adam Carolla: Yeah, yeah. The team Loveline, man. You guys remember us from back in the day? Well, we're doing a pod and we're doing it every day.

[00:44:57] Dr. Drew Pinsky: And we've been doing it for a while. And if you — if I hear one more time, people say, "God, I loved you and Adam together on Loveline." And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah. We're doing a podcast. Will you please just join us at The Adam and Dr. Drew Show, please? At adamdrdrewshow.com. It's a great show." Come on, now. Only on PodcastOne. That's us, Adam and Dr. Drew Show. Just like the old days. Doctor's orders. Oh, oh, man. You're funny.

[00:45:20] Adam Carolla: Yep. All right, let's go save some babies.

[00:45:21] Dr. Drew Pinsky: Let's do it.