973: Kid’s Not Possessed, She Just Needs a Safe Nest | Feedback Friday

973: Kid's Not Possessed, She Just Needs a Safe Nest | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: This episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show is brought to you by Nissan. Nissan SUVs have the capabilities to take your adventure to the next level. Learn more at nissanusa.com.

[00:00:12] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the Eyebrow Scissors Trimming these Caterpillars of Life conundrum, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from arms traffickers, former jihadi, gold smugglers, astronauts, national security advisors or rocket scientists. This week we had Mustafa Suleyman, CEO of Microsoft AI on AI containment, the race with China and a whole lot more. I know AI has been kind of beaten to death in on every podcast, but there's actually some new stuff in here, and he is one of the guys in the forefront of AI. So I highly recommend this one, even if you're sort of AIed out like many of us might be by now. On Fridays though, we take listener letters, offer advice, tell stories from our weird travels, and mercilessly roast Gabe for his ridiculous apparel and self-care routine. Speaking of which, Gabe, you know how I can tell that you don't have kids and/or you possibly are holding, secretly holding a grudge against me?

[00:01:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: No. What? What are you talking about?

[00:01:22] Jordan Harbinger: You sent me a birthday cake. Thank you very much.

[00:01:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: You welcome.

[00:01:24] Jordan Harbinger: With coffee in it, to my house. And you let me feed it to my kids at like 9:00 PM. Nobody slept till three o'clock in the morning, basically.

[00:01:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, that's on you, bro. I didn't know that was going to happen. I just thought you guys would enjoy it.

[00:01:37] Jordan Harbinger: Well, we did. I guess that's revenge for all the Feedback Friday roast.

[00:01:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's what it is.

[00:01:41] Jordan Harbinger: Also when my dad found out, he lost it, of course, because he's like, "Oh, remember that time Gabriel drank 17 cups of coffee when I met him?". Because for those who are unaware, when Gabriel met my parents, like, I don't know, seven plus years ago, randomly when they were visiting California before they moved out here, you just kept ordering refills of coffee. Like you had — they just made a new pot of coffee and you drank the whole thing at the restaurant.

[00:02:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know why I did that. I was on a coffee kick or something, and we went out to breakfast and I just kept ordering refills on decaf coffee, but it was decaf.

[00:02:13] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:02:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like it doesn't do anything.

[00:02:15] Jordan Harbinger: But my dad was like, "How come he never goes to the bathroom?" Like, "What? What's going on?"

[00:02:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I just sat at the table for three hours.

[00:02:21] Jordan Harbinger: And then you sent a cake, and my dad's like, "Oh, what kind of cake is this?" "It's from Gabriel." "Oh, that's great. What kinda — what is it?" "It's coffee cake." "Well, of course it's a coffee cake. If it's from Gabriel, of course it's a coffee cake."

[00:02:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: What's funny about that is A, I don't drink coffee anymore.

[00:02:33] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:02:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: So this is so not my brand anymore.

[00:02:36] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:02:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: And B, your dad would not let me live that down for years.

[00:02:40] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:02:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Every time I saw him or you talked to him and you told me you talked, it would always be like, he would give me sh*t for the coffee.

[00:02:47] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He'd be like, "Oh, you want some coffee?"

[00:02:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: And then, the bit had died and I was like, "Cool, we've put that to bed."

[00:02:52] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:02:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: And now it's being revived. I don't know if I like it.

[00:02:55] Jordan Harbinger: I don't think guys who are in their 80s ever let anything like that go. They're just not sure when they're going to get another shot, you know?

[00:03:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway. So you are a little under the weather, my friend.

[00:03:04] Jordan Harbinger: I am.

[00:03:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: You just got back from Japan.

[00:03:06] Jordan Harbinger: And when I did the Charles Duhigg intro before Japan, I was like, "Hey, I kinda sound funny because it's four o'clock in the morning." No, I sound funny because I have whatever kind of black lung is going around.

[00:03:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. You got that Tokyo tuberculosis or something.

[00:03:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, that's right.

[00:03:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Besides your life-threatening illness, was it awesome?

[00:03:24] Jordan Harbinger: It was great. Yeah. I went snowboarding in Niseko, which is in Hokkaido.

[00:03:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:29] Jordan Harbinger: Which is all the way up north, basically near Siberia.

[00:03:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Supposed to be incredible from what I hear.

[00:03:32] Jordan Harbinger: It's incredible. I mean, the snow sports are great. But also it's just like, it's a different kind of cold, because it's mountain cold, but it's Siberian winds basically just blown over there to Japan.

[00:03:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh wow.

[00:03:43] Jordan Harbinger: And you just get the craziest snow and weather. And it's beautiful up there of course, too. And it's also really safe because it's Japan. So my friend lost his phone and he is like, "Well I'm never going to see that again." You know, you lose your phone at a ski place. Sure enough, you hear the lifts stop and they're like, "Oh ma, please come to lost and found for your phone."

[00:04:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:04:03] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm like, not only did they find it, they announced it to the whole resort so that if you're still here, you know where to go and get it.

[00:04:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: That is the most Japanese thing I've heard in a while.

[00:04:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:04:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, I love it. I love that country.

[00:04:15] Jordan Harbinger: You lose a phone on a resort in America, if it makes it to the lost and found, they're not going to like try and reach you.

[00:04:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:04:20] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:04:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Of course not. That's their phone now.

[00:04:22] Jordan Harbinger: Right. It's their phone. "We'll see if this dummy comes out."

[00:04:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: But how does that — the whole mountain stops to reconnect somebody with their Android? That's incredible.

[00:04:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, absolutely wild.

[00:04:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Amazing.

[00:04:31] Jordan Harbinger: But on the flight out to Tokyo, we're like halfway there, not even, and suddenly there's this like super strong Cheeto smell. I was like, "It's kind of like the Cheetos are spoiled." But how did Cheetos spoil, right? They can't. They're not like a food. Yeah, well —

[00:04:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Gross.

[00:04:46] Jordan Harbinger: And then it sort of graduated into like a real cheese smell, but not like, "Oh, brie." But a cheese where you're like —

[00:04:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like a stinky cheese?

[00:04:53] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Like who brought the — what French a hole brought Gruyère or whatever, like baked —

[00:04:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: To Tokyo.

[00:04:59] Jordan Harbinger: To Tokyo on a plane. And then is opening it, repeatedly opening it like behind me. I was like, Jen's gagging. And I'm like, "Relax." Because behind her is like this bulkhead. So I'm like, "It's not even close to us. It's got to be the guy next to us." And then he's looking around, and I sort of like secretly go over and almost sniff the guy just to see if he's a culprit. It turns out that he's like this really nice guy who also was like, "What is that?" And I was like, "I don't know." And then the row behind the bulkhead, I'm like looking at these guys, this like row of dudes and I'm like, "Okay, which one of these guys is eating this disgusting stuff?" So I'm looking at what they're eating and I'm looking to see if they, like, "What's going on?" Are they doing something weird? And then one of the guys on the end makes eye contact with me and I'm like, I do like the, "What is that smell?" look on my face. Like, "What is that?" And he looks at me and he just does this thing with his head and eyes. It's like really subtle.

[00:05:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:05:50] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm like, "Oh, he's pointing to the aisle." I look across the aisle, there's no one there. And he's like, "No." And he gives me this thing with — this is all like eye contact communication.

[00:05:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. This is incredible. Yeah.

[00:05:58] Jordan Harbinger: There's this thing with he's like, "No, like behind me. Behind." And I look and there's this really big white dude. I'm like, "Okay." And the guy who's making eye contact with me, surreptitiously reaches down really low to the floor and goes, psh psh and squirts this like deodorant that he had from his bag onto the man's feet.

[00:06:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: What?

[00:06:21] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm like, "Oh no."

[00:06:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hold on. There are two things going on here.

[00:06:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:06:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: So it's this guy's feet?

[00:06:26] Jordan Harbinger: It's this guy's feet.

[00:06:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that is so disgusting.

[00:06:30] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And I'm like, "No, that can't be it." Like I've — my dad or me, whatever. We've had our stinky feet days. There's no way this is feet because it's like three rows up.

[00:06:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is a medical problem.

[00:06:40] Jordan Harbinger: It's a medical problem. So I'm like, "No way."

[00:06:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hold on. I'm still processing the other piece of information. So this guy squirted deodorant on this guy's feet, 30,000 feet in the air.

[00:06:50] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Because we were like, "Why does it sometimes smell like coconut? And other times it smells like Cheetos." Like this is so confusing. So eventually I'm like, "Okay, I don't know what to do about that, but the problems probably solved because he sprayed deodorant on the guy's feet." It stops and I'm like, "Oh, thank God." And then I realize that it starts again. And then it stopped. And I went back and I talked to the guys and I'm like, "Okay, so what is that smell? Because it's like, 'Stop now.' Are you spraying it? But then how come I can't smell the coconut?" And he's like, "No, it's the guy behind me. He went to the bathroom." And right when he told me that, I start to smell it again, and I see this guy walking back up the aisle. He went to the bathroom wearing only socks. And I'm like, "My dude."

[00:07:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Stop it.

[00:07:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you went into an economy class, airline bathroom on an international flight in your socks. No wonder you got funky fungus feet, man. No wonder.

[00:07:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my god, this guy.

[00:07:38] Jordan Harbinger: And the whole cabin, like multiple rows away is like, "What the hell?"

[00:07:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Probably spreading it to the bathroom as well.

[00:07:43] Jordan Harbinger: Of course. So now —

[00:07:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that's so disgusting.

[00:07:44] Jordan Harbinger: Now if you're also a moron and you go to the bathroom in your socks, now you're getting Cheeto feet. And the kicker is the guy spraying the coconut deodorant on him. And it was, Oh God, it was so — it was one of the most disgust— So I told the flight attendant because nobody else had the guts to do it. I'm like, "Guys —"

[00:07:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: How do you tell the flight attendant this?

[00:08:01] Jordan Harbinger: I walk back into the galley and I go, "Okay, this is weird, but 39 C, the feet. are so bad. He took his shoes off. That three rows up, three rows across and three rows back, everybody's got their masks on. People are gagging when he goes to the bathroom. People like are gasping for air. There's a guy spraying deodorant on his feet." And they're like, "No." They're like, "Oh, stop." They're like, and I'm like, "It smells like Cheetos." And then the one flight attendant, he goes, "Just stop. Just stop. We're going to go — are you sure it's 39 C?" We're like, "Oh yeah, it's 39 C." And then one of the flight attendants walks up to do like a fly by and she comes back and she goes, "Oh, it's 39 C."

[00:08:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my gosh.

[00:08:33] Jordan Harbinger: She's like, "I didn't even have to get to 39 C to know it's 39 C."

[00:08:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Did they do anything about it? Can they do anything about that?

[00:08:39] Jordan Harbinger: They went up to him and they were like, "Can you please put your shoes on?"

[00:08:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, thank you.

[00:08:42] Jordan Harbinger: "Um, a lot of people can smell the odor of your feet." and he was so annoyed.

[00:08:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: He was annoyed?

[00:08:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And I'm like, you lack self-awareness to the point where you are a hazard to others.

[00:08:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wait, wait, wait. He was annoyed.

[00:08:55] Jordan Harbinger: He was all miffed that he had to put his shoes on and it's like, "Well, maybe, you need to take care of this."

[00:09:01] When we got off the plane, all the guys in the row were like, "Thank you and thank you. We didn't want to confront him." Because he was a really big dude. And this was like some kind of smaller dudes in the row and they were like, "We didn't want to confront him." I'm like, "I understand that. But I didn't confront him either. I just told the flight attendant to take care of business."

[00:09:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, it's so uncomfortable. It's so awkward. How do you turn to somebody and tell them, "Your feet are making us gag."?

[00:09:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:09:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like that's a hard chat.

[00:09:27] Jordan Harbinger: And the guys were like, "You know, you can just tell this guy lives like a lonely, isolated life. Because if you've ever had a girlfriend ever, unless she just can't smell —"

[00:09:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah. You would know.

[00:09:36] Jordan Harbinger: She would be like, "That's disgusting and I'm breaking up with you unless you fix it like right now."

[00:09:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: And also, how does he not smell it? Is he just so used to it?

[00:09:43] Jordan Harbinger: You're so used to it. When you live in your own filth, which this guy must do,

[00:09:46] he also had super disgusting BO, which is weird because he actually didn't look like a homeless guy. He just smelled like a homeless guy.

[00:09:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my god. That is so horrible, dude. This is like my nightmare flight.

[00:09:57] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, what was even more weird is when or slash gross is you go through security when you get to Japan and for some reason, you also have to take off your shoes. And he took off his shoes and he was doing the thing. And they were like, "Sir, we have to screen." And you could see the Japanese guys be like, "Nope, put on your shoes. Nope. Put 'em right back on. Put 'em right back on right now." It was so funny because he was like, "What?" Meanwhile, everyone else had their shoes off. Whoever was screening him was just like, "Hell no."

[00:10:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wait, is this before or after the flight? This is after the flight.

[00:10:24] Jordan Harbinger: It was after the flight. I don't know why we had to go through security again.

[00:10:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: So why is he surprised?

[00:10:28] Jordan Harbinger: He just thought the flight attendant was being mean to him or something and he had to put his shoes on.

[00:10:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my God. Bro, everybody is telling you to put your shoes back on.

[00:10:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:10:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: At some point you go, "I wonder if there's a problem."

[00:10:40] Jordan Harbinger: And burn them. Light them on fire. And then put your feet into sulfuric acid for at least 30 minutes, every day.

[00:10:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Correct. Go get your house tented and call exterminators because your feet are a public health hazard, sir.

[00:10:52] Jordan Harbinger: Literally.

[00:10:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: I am horrified by the story, but you know what I'm most disturbed by? The thought of this man walking around that pristine country and offending every Japanese person he comes across, and just giving them the impression that we Americans are just the worst.

[00:11:10] Jordan Harbinger: Stinky savages?

[00:11:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that's so terrible. Like, I'm just picturing him on the subway.

[00:11:14] Jordan Harbinger: The other thing is, it's Japan, the one country where you're literally taking your shoes off, like everywhere. Right? Like, "Oh, you want to eat at this restaurant? Shoes off. You want to eat, go in this hotel? Shoes off.? And then they're just like, "You know what? We have shoes for you that we're going to light on fire after your stay is over."

[00:11:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: That is so many tea ceremonies ruined. I can't even imagine.

[00:11:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. "Oh, I want to sit in the tatami mats and Neat barefoot."

[00:11:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:11:35] Jordan Harbinger: They're like, "Sorry, no. Can't do it."

[00:11:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: "Can't do it. We're all booked up today."

[00:11:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:11:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or he somehow manages to get in, takes off his shoes and —

[00:11:42] Jordan Harbinger: Clears the place up.

[00:11:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: They have to replace all the tatami mats. Yeah.

[00:11:44] Jordan Harbinger: Another funny thing before I — Some people hate these little asides, so write us if you're like, "I don't care about people's feet," and then we can disregard your email. But another funny thing is when I got back from Japan, I tried to buy the epic pass, which by the way, if you're a skier or a snowboarder, those are now on sale at the lowest price for the season. They're like, you got to upload your photo. And I upload a photo and it's like, "No, this photo's not going to work. This photo's not going to work." And I finally keep trying. And it's like, "You need to upload a photo only of yourself." And I'm like, "There's nobody else in the photo." So then I try a different way, like a mobile and everything, and I finally do it on desktop. And it's like, "You may not upload a photo of a celebrity." And I'm like, "Okay, what?" And then I realized that it says that every time, so I call the customer service line. They're like, "Sorry sir, this is a photo of a celebrity." And I'm like, "No, this is just me." And they're like, "It says it's a photo of a celebrity. You must look like a celebrity." And I was like, "What could this possibly mean?" And then it hit me. They think I'm a celebrity.

[00:12:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, you're famous. It's official. That's incredible.

[00:12:45] Jordan Harbinger: So I have to go into the office and prove that I'm

[00:12:48] me.

[00:12:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: You have to go in person? That's so funny.

[00:12:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. They want to make sure that it's actually me. It's just kind of funny because it's actually quite inconvenient. You know, everyone has a ski pass and they like won't issue the thing until I go to the office, which of course is in like Lake Tahoe, five hours away.

[00:13:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: But that means that no celebrity can get a ski pass.

[00:13:05] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I'm like, "So what happens when an actual celebrity needs a ski pass?" Like what happens when The Rock is like, "I'm going to take up snowboarding." Nope. Can't do it.

[00:13:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sorry, Ryan Gosling, you can't be on our mountain. Or you have to come in person and sit here for 45 minutes with all the normals.

[00:13:18] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Get in line like it's the DMV.

[00:13:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:13:21] Jordan Harbinger: And take a photo and yada. Yeah. It's so ridiculous.

[00:13:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: So how's the jet lag? When I came back, it was brutal.

[00:13:28] Jordan Harbinger: Brutal. Yeah. But I used FlyKitt. flykitt.com. Use code Jordan for 15 percent off. They're sponsor of the show. I use FlyKitt and it is awesome. It doesn't fix it a hundred percent, but I slept through every night. I wasn't getting up at like 4:00 AM and being like, "I want Shawarma or Ramen."

[00:13:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh wow.

[00:13:42] Jordan Harbinger: None of that. You sleep through the night, you're just kind of tired when you get up in the morning because it's like 4:00 AM Japan time or you know, 2:00 AM Japan time when you wake up. And at night you're like, "Okay, I'm ready for bed. It's 7:00 PM" but you're not like passing out in the middle of the day just because you can't take it.

[00:13:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: So cool.

[00:13:58] Jordan Harbinger: It's not perfect, but it works so well and it's got a little bit of supplements, but it's mostly — they say it's 50 percent supplements and like 50 percent it tells you when to sleep and when to eat. So you're doing that at kind of normal-ish times for when you land on the plane and the day after. It just keeps you from bloating up and being disgusting. Anyway, I highly recommend that and I highly recommend Japan. But I would say, you know this — we were so traumatized by Cheeto feet that we literally were like, "Can we look around the gate and make sure he's not on our return flight?" The odds are slim, of course, but let's make sure he is not on our return flight. And if he is, we were literally going to be like, "We can't sit near this guy. We have to change or even upgrade our tickets, because we can't sit near this guy." Jen was literally sick because of this. It was so disgusting.

[00:14:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my God.

[00:14:45] Jordan Harbinger: Anyway, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:14:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear, Jordan and Gabe, my 32-year-old sister has been an extreme alcoholic for the past 12 years, possibly longer. She's been in very emotionally and physically abusive relationships in her life, and the last one almost caused her her left eye and eyesight. She never made reports about any of her past relationships, so there's no record of what she's been through.

[00:15:08] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, that's so sad. 12 years, she must be in rough shape. That's almost like half your life at that age.

[00:15:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: She now has a new boyfriend, and he's the same way. About two and a half years ago, he assaulted her. And nine months later, she gave birth to a daughter, Nancy, who's now a year and eight months old.

[00:15:26] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. That's tragic, but okay.

[00:15:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: The following year, the same thing happened again, and my second niece, Stella, was born. Mm-mm.

[00:15:36] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so this is obviously very dark. You're poor sister. But I'm a little confused. How does she know these kids were the product of these assaults?

[00:15:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Unclear, and who knows exactly what the full story is. She seems to think that her sister got pregnant from rape. I think that's what she's saying, right? Twice.

[00:15:51] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah.

[00:15:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Maybe that's true, but also I would imagine hard to know for sure. Hard to say. What does seem clear is that this is an abusive relationship. So she goes on, because of the addiction, my sister doesn't remember a lot of the things her boyfriend does, so she often blows them off or doesn't believe them. She won't admit that she's an alcoholic and can stop whenever she wants, and she doesn't want to go to rehab. Then more recently, she started telling our sister that Nancy, the toddler, wants to kill her.

[00:16:20] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh.

[00:16:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: As she put it, quote, "Nancy's eyes go pure black, and there is a demon inside of her."

[00:16:26] Jordan Harbinger: What? Okay, so this is terrifying. Her alcoholic sister thinks her own baby is trying to kill her because there's a demon inside her? Holy smokes.

[00:16:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:16:35] Jordan Harbinger: Obviously, this brought us right back to the incredibly sad story we took a few weeks ago from the friend of that woman Emma, who killed her baby while experiencing postpartum psychosis. We weren't sure if that's exactly what's happening here. We'll get into that. But there's obviously some kind of hallucination and/or delusion here, and she's a new mom. That story really opened up our eyes to these postpartum risks. So this is all very concerning, of course,

[00:16:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: I've also come to learn that her drinking has increased as well. I'm not sure by how much because she hides it, but it's throughout the day instead of only during the nights. My family and I don't know what to do, how to get her help or how to help her get away from her abusive baby daddy. But we also don't want her to lose the kids and have their father get custody of them. Can we force my sister to go to rehab without losing the girls? What do you make of the whole demon thing? What would you recommend we do to save my sister? Signed, At a Loss Over My Sister's Dark Thoughts, Which Might or Might Not Be Due To the Sauce.

[00:17:34] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man. Well, this is obviously a very tragic story. There's a lot going on here. My heart breaks for your sister. She's clearly in a lot of pain. She's probably developed this addiction to cope with it. She chooses dangerous partners. She apparently doesn't see how bad her situation is, but my heart breaks for you and your other sister, too. I mean, in some ways even more because you have to watch your sister go through all this. You have to carry a lot of anxiety and sadness too. And unlike her, you understand and remember everything that she goes through. And I'm just very sorry about all this. I can only imagine how painful this must be. Gabe and I both have had severe addicts in our own families. We've seen firsthand how it impacts the addict's, loved ones, especially their siblings. It's just awful. We wanted to share your story with an expert, so we reached out to Dr. Juli Fraga, a therapist and educator specializing in postpartum depression and anxiety, maternal and childhood trauma and grief. And Dr. Fraga confirmed that this is a really tough situation in so many ways because first of all, and we talk about this all the time on the show, it is so hard, often impossible to force anyone to do anything including, and maybe especially going to rehab for a severe addiction. As Dr. Fraga put it, families and loved ones often put in 150 percent of their emotional and financial energy into getting a person they love the help they need, but if that person isn't willing to seek treatment, it can just be really tricky. The denial you're describing, it's almost always a defense that protects the addict from shame, guilt, anxiety, but obviously that also prevents them from seeing just how dangerous their situation really is. As long as your sister denies that she has this addiction and digs her heels in, there's probably not a ton you can do, and you'll probably have to come to terms with that eventually. But in a world where you do manage to get your sister treatment, Dr. Fraga said that, "No, going to rehab does not necessarily mean your sister would lose her kids." if anything, she pointed out that not addressing her addiction could make that more likely, especially if she's compromising her kids' safety by using substances and staying in an unsafe relationship, which is a really good point. In fact, Dr. Fraga said that that's an option you could consider — letting your sister know that she needs to address her addiction and go to rehab so that she doesn't potentially lose her children. Maybe that'll wake her up a little bit. I don't know. Now about the demon thing, obviously that's terrifying. We talked about on that Emma episode a few weeks back. With postpartum psychosis, a mother essentially experiences a break from reality. And Dr. Fraga explained to us that believing your child is a demon, that's clearly an example of a delusion, which is a belief that conflicts with reality. In saying that her daughter has black eyes, that might also suggest a hallucination. Dr. Fraga also explained that sufferers of postpartum psychosis might also experience paranoia and believe that other people, even loved ones, are out to get them or hurt them, which often makes helping them that much harder. And also, interesting side note, Dr. Fraga explained to us that in a good percentage of postpartum psychosis cases, underlying bipolar illness can play a role. But in a smaller percentage of cases, mothers can suffer from what's called isolated only psychosis, meaning there's no underlying mental illness. Apparently, hormonal shifts and sleep deprivation can also play a role in all this, but experts still aren't entirely sure what causes postpartum psychosis. In any event, Dr. Fraga said that what your sister shared about Nancy, well, it could mean a couple different things. If your sister started saying, "Nancy is a demon since her infancy," then Dr. Fraga would wonder about the possibility of a postpartum mood concern, even postpartum psychosis. Apparently, these mental illnesses can basically arise at any time in the first year after giving birth. Dr. Fraga said that these cases are a psychiatric emergency, of course, and require medical attention and treatment, but as she put it to us, with the right help, moms do get better. Now, because your sister's delusion started a bit later, it's also possible that your sister's alcoholism is impairing her judgment as alcohol tends to do. Dr. Fraga said that if she's drunk when she's saying this stuff, it's not necessarily indicative of psychosis. It could just be alcohol induced, especially if her alcohol use has increased, like you said. But sometimes these mental health concerns are comorbid, meaning there's more than one disorder that's contributing to the problem.

[00:21:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. These are all good theories, and I also wonder if the alcohol is possibly driving some of the delusions or hallucinations. I mean, I think sometimes drinking can get so bad that you actually do start hallucinating, but usually you hear about that with the DTs like when you are experiencing withdrawal, it can be really bad. But yes, there's clearly a lot going on here. So how do you help your sister? Well, the first step is to get her a medical and a psychiatric evaluation. And there are a few ways you could do this. Option one is, if she's open to help at all, you could help her find a therapist and go with her to her first appointment. Wait with her in the waiting room. Pick her up afterward. This would probably be the best case scenario in my mind because the therapist would be the most qualified to help your sister and hopefully connect her with the resources that she desperately needs. It also sounds like your sister has a lifetime of very intense stuff to work through, and it would be great if she could be talking to somebody right now if she's capable of that. Option two is, if you're worried about her safety, you could take her to the emergency room where presumably the staff at the hospital would request a psychiatric consult at a minimum. I'm assuming they would notice that she doesn't seem to be entirely in her right mind, and they could call a psychiatrist to come talk to her and check her out. Option three, if this ever becomes an imminent emergency, like if you get a sense that she's about to hurt herself or hurt one of her children, or her partner is about to hurt her, or she's just experiencing a complete break with reality and it's dangerous, you could call an ambulance. Dr. Fraga said that medical providers are trained to ask patients if they're being hurt by a partner, physically, emotionally, so that would be another way to help protect her from her boyfriend. Although of course, there's no guarantee that she would be forthright about any abuse. It does sound like your sister hides a great deal, or she just straight up forgets and doesn't register a lot of what she goes through, which is so sad and unfortunately, I don't have super high hopes there.

[00:23:32] Dr. Fraga's other concern is for your nieces who are being exposed to what sound like pretty traumatic situations. So if you ever learn that your nieces are in real danger, if they're being abused or neglected or exposed to dangerous people, there are drug use in the house, or sketchy people coming around, Dr. Fraga said that you might need to consider calling Child Protective Services or the equivalent agency in your state and filing a report. Now, as we all know, this is a very tough call to make. It could have some big impacts on your sister and on the kids, but if they're at serious risk, it's often the right thing to do.

[00:24:05] Dr. Fraga had one other interesting idea to get through to your sister, which was you could ask her what she would do if you were in a similar situation. You know, like, "What advice would you give me if I were in your shoes? What would you tell me to do to protect my kids? What would you want for them?" Dr. Fraga said that a question like that can sometimes help shift somebody's perspective. It can lower their defenses a little bit. It can get them to see things more objectively, hopefully allow them to let you in more.

[00:24:32] Jordan Harbinger: Again, a classic, "Can't read the label from inside the jar." situation.

[00:24:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. And no guarantees, of course. I mean, again, the big caveat to all of this is, is your sister even clear enough, loosen enough? Is she able to even have these conversations? But that could be the start of a more productive conversation with your sister.

[00:24:48] Jordan Harbinger: One last resource Dr. Fraga pointed us to Postpartum Support International. A great nonprofit focusing on pregnancy and postpartum issues. They offer resources for everything from finding support groups to helping a loved one going through postpartum challenges, to finding medical providers and experts to talk to. We'll link to the PSI website in the show notes for you. It'd be a great help right now. Again, I am so sorry that your sister's going through all this, that she's suffering. There are things you can do to help her and the kids. I definitely think you need to try, but I also think the unspoken theme of your letter is coming to terms with the limit of your influence here and bearing the sadness and the anger and the grief that that brings up. So in addition to helping your sister, I hope you find some support as well, whether it's going to therapy, reading books about addiction, trauma, family dynamics, or checking out a group like Al-Anon. I actually think Al-Anon would be an incredible place for you right now. We've talked about it on the show before. Al-Anon is a program for friends and family members of alcoholics. It's a very powerful community. Even if you just go to a few meetings, you can even attend them remotely, you'll pick up some really important gems and find a whole community of people who are going through what you're going through, and that can be really comforting and healing. We're sending you, your sister, and her kids a big hug and wishing you all the best. Big thanks to Dr. Fraga for her insight and wisdom here. You can learn more about her and her work at drjulifraga.com. That's D-R-J-U-L-Ifraga.com. You can also find her on Twitter @Dr_fraga. We'll link to both of those in the show notes of course, as well.

[00:26:19] You know what you're definitely not hallucinating though, folks, the eye watering deals and discounts on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:26:30] This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. How's your social battery these days? Running on E or still going strong? Now that the sun's making a grand comeback, there seems to be a collective sprint to cram our social calendars and you know, that could be fun. But what does your ideal socializing or amount of socializing even look like anymore? My main hangout buddies have suddenly become the under five crowd, thanks to the joy of parenting. A chat with BetterHelp is not just for the big scary life stuff or these massive crisis, it's actually quite perfect for figuring out how to sneak in a little me time or adult conversation without setting off a toddler meltdown. BetterHelp is therapy with a modern twist. It's totally online, utterly flexible, fits into the tiny slivers of free time you didn't even know you had. Pop in a quick survey, get matched with a licensed therapist tailored to your vibe, like I asked for somebody who has small kids because I don't want somebody who's like, "I'm an expert in parenting and have no kids." It's like, "No, you know nothing. Sit down." I want somebody who's got a poopy diaper in one hand and then therapy phone in the other. If you find the therapist and they're not the right fit, swap out with a tap. It's the kind of convenience that even the most overbooked parent can squeeze into their schedule.

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[00:27:39] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Quince. Jen's recent discovery — Quince has completely changed our approach to updating our closets without spending a fortune. Every piece we've gotten from there has been pretty awesome, including these amazing washable silk tanks, which are not mine, obviously, but she now owns them in multiple colors. Revitalize your wardrobe with high quality basics that are surprisingly affordable from the cozy comfort of wait for it — mongolian cashmere sweaters. Oh wait, crew necks, whatever. Same thing. Starting at — well, maybe not, but what do I know? Starting at about 50 bucks, too chic 100 percent leather jackets. They even have flowknit active wear. Quince is your destination for all the must-haves. How do they manage such reasonable prices? Like I said before, it's slave labor. No. They eliminate the middleman and partner directly with the best factories. In fact, they are very careful about eco-friendly manufacturing processes that are ethical and don't have slave labor. I probably should have said that earlier, otherwise I'm going to get in trouble. But here we go. Anyway, they eliminate the middleman, and they offer savings of 50 to 80 percent off, what you'd normally pay for items of comparable quality. It's the kind of shopping experience that makes you feel good, inside and out.

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[00:28:53] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here, although, once again, Gabriel is sitting in the dark. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you hear on the show so you can check out the sponsors for yourself, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.

[00:29:11] Now back to Feedback Friday.

[00:29:15] All right, what's next?

[00:29:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. Two months ago, I started a new job and my boss is this almost 70-year-old dude who's still rocking it because he loves what he does. He's a very kind man, has been true to his word and is trusting me to take over the company in the next few years. I feel valued and honored.

[00:29:34] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That is quite an endorsement of you, especially after two months. And I think I have more to say about that, but I'm not sure yet. Well done. Pretty quick to be handed over the reins, I think.

[00:29:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, let's come back to that. Let's see where this goes. So she goes on, but he tends to be old school. Kind of stubborn, slightly curmudgeonly and stuck in some of his ways. I try to roll with it and just keep writing my meetings down in the paper appointment book he insists we use while I simultaneously enter the appointments in my Outlook calendar.

[00:30:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's so annoying. I just can't with this kinda stuff, man.

[00:30:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:30:06] Jordan Harbinger: Fricking Seymour in his AT-A-GLANCE calendar from 1997. I know the dude is 70, but learn to use Google Calendar, Seymour. It is not that hard.

[00:30:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: If you're running your company on paper calendars in this day and age, I kind of feel like you're trying a little bit to be a dinosaur.

[00:30:21] Jordan Harbinger: This stuff has been widely available since the early aughts. I mean, I was working at a law firm in like 2004, whatever, and they were like well into the computerized age here.

[00:30:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Of course.

[00:30:31] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You're just going out of your way to be super inefficient. Frankly, you're just prioritizing what's easy for you over what's easy for literally everybody else in your entire business and your external clients for that matter too, right? "Can you send me a calendar invite?" "What do you mean? I wrote it in my calendar?" All right. Okay.

[00:30:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: You write it in your calendar and we'll both

[00:30:49] Jordan Harbinger: "You write it in yours."

[00:30:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's how it works. You line them up and we hope for the best.

[00:30:53] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe I'm underestimating how hard this stuff is for some folks. Maybe technology intimidates the guy. I don't know.

[00:30:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I think we know what our friend here's first move is going to be when she takes over this company.

[00:31:03] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. Throw out all the paper rolodexes, start a company outlook calendar, watch efficiency immediately jump 60 percent across the entire company overnight. I'm just shaking my damn head over here. Who knows what else? This is just one example. "Can you drive to the office and get a copy of those papers and fax 'em?" "Can't I just copy the PDF from my —" "No, I need the paper."

[00:31:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: "PD what?"

[00:31:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly.

[00:31:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: "Adobe who? Who's Adobe."

[00:31:27] So she goes on, then last week we had a lunch meeting with some potential new clients. I laid the groundwork myself and brought them in. My boss was genuinely impressed by my ability to establish this connection and recognize the substantial potential in landing them.

[00:31:41] Jordan Harbinger: Again, killing it. You're hungry, you're driven. I love it.

[00:31:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Five minutes into the meeting, while I'm making a great connection with these clients, he cuts me off and starts asking them rapid fire questions. He barely gives them a chance to respond before interjecting with remarks that implied that they lacked expertise and that he had superior knowledge. He kept talking and talking, even while he was chewing and fragments of food were flying out of his mouth.

[00:32:06] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my gosh. That is so gross. That's Cheeto feet, boss version.

[00:32:12] Why Seymour? Tell me. Why?

[00:32:16] Jordan Harbinger: First of all, client service 1 0 1, don't launch artichoke dip into the client's face.

[00:32:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Truly.

[00:32:23] Jordan Harbinger: Just disgusting.

[00:32:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on. She's having the same reaction. I was mortified.

[00:32:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:32:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was nauseating. I kept trying to interject and soften the blow. Eventually, he must have felt his sales pitch was finished because he finally stopped speaking long enough for me to get the conversation flowing again. I had to work extremely hard to turn things around and stop them from leaving with a bad taste in their mouth. Yeah, literally.

[00:32:47] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly. I was going to make a artichoke dip landing in your — ugh. This is only slightly less disgusting than the foot cheese smell on my flight to Japan.

[00:32:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, man. It's close competition, I would say. And you know Seymour is one of those people who go to the airplane bathroom and their socks too.

[00:33:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, of course. Like, ugh. No doubt. Dude, if I were a prospective client sitting across from a vendor who's spitting crab cake shrapnel at my face during the meeting — first of all, why are you eating during our meeting? Why? You don't have time for lunch? Am I your lunch hour?

[00:33:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it was a lunch meeting. That's the vibe I'm getting. They're at a restaurant.

[00:33:19] Jordan Harbinger: I see. They're all at a restaurant. Okay, fine.

[00:33:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: You thought they were in the conference room and he ordered like a five course meal.

[00:33:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And everyone else is like, "Hey man, do you need to do that right now?"

[00:33:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Maybe we shouldn't put it past him. I just pictured that they went to a lunch meeting, you know, restaurant. But maybe we're being too favorable. I don't know.

[00:33:35] Jordan Harbinger: Either way, if somebody accidentally spits something on me, I get it. If they're just unaware and blasting stuff at me, I'm out of there. I'm not signing with them. I don't want to ever have to do that again, so I'm not going to sign with them for that reason.

[00:33:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: After the meeting, my boss spoke as if the interaction had gone exceptionally well. I was dumbfounded. We finally heard back from the potential clients and they declined to work with us. I tried to get feedback, but they just gave me a generic answer.

[00:34:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:34:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well yeah. They're not going to say, "It was the crab cake shrapnel for me. Sorry." Since then, we also lost a very large client who my boss also offended. I was in that meeting too, and it was uncomfortable.

[00:34:15] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh. Interesting. So it's not just that this guy has bad table manners, it's that he's actually alienating people. And this is a real problem if you're losing clients. It's different if a client's like, "Can we deal with you and not Seymour. He is a little bit, yeah. Old fashioned." You're like, "I get it." This is like, "We want to remove our business from your business because we hate this guy. He's terrible."

[00:34:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: It does not get any clearer than that.

[00:34:37] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:34:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, I suggested to my boss that we create an online survey that current and potential clients can use to help us better understand how to serve them. He doesn't like the idea and said that he doesn't want to hear their complaining. Okay. That is telling, isn't it?

[00:34:53] Jordan Harbinger: "Feedback is for people who need help. We're perfect." Okay. Very defended, this guy. It sounds almost like narcissistic, but it's just a chronic lack of self-awareness on top of it. What a personality.

[00:35:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: It would be funny if there were an online survey that was like, "Hey, why don't you want to work with us?" And in the dropdown menu, it's like rapid fire questions, severe narcissism, crab cake shrapnel. Like all the options.

[00:35:14] Jordan Harbinger: Mansplaining, lack of attunement, failure to apply napkin to face.

[00:35:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And then the responses get automatically emailed to Seymour, so he has to read them.

[00:35:22] Jordan Harbinger: As if that guy knows how to read email, right? No thanks.

[00:35:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a good point. Well, I mean, maybe it'll hook it up to a fax machine or something.

[00:35:29] I don't know. If it's not fax.

[00:35:31] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, "I want all my email printed in case I have to look at them later. Can't look at email once you read it, right? That's it's gone forever."

[00:35:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: "Can you laminate them so I don't spill soup on them?"

[00:35:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. "I like eating soup while I read my emails."

[00:35:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Does SurveyMonkey send results by carrier pigeon? That might be the technology to go with here.

[00:35:49] Jordan Harbinger: Seymour uses hand addressed envelopes with all the reasons he's a dumpster fire, sealed with hot wax. That's his tech level.

[00:35:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: A raven from winterfell, listing all of his flaws.

[00:35:57] So letter goes on. Now I'm hesitant to bring in new clients until I have more control, but if I hold back, I'll miss out on opportunities to expand the company and earn bonuses. And despite his kindness, I find it hard to believe that somebody this set in his ways would be receptive to guidance from a younger and less experienced person like me. I've been excited about taking over this company in a few years, but now I'm not sure there will be a company left by then. How do I bring this up to him? What should I do? Signed, A Rising Star Wondering Whether To Try To Change a Boss Who Lets His Food Fly.

[00:36:30] Jordan Harbinger: What a conundrum. I really feel for you here. This is such a tough cringey boss to have. The paper calendar thing, eh, it's annoying, but you can work around that stuff. But the utter lack of self-awareness and the active avoidance of feedback. You know, if this guy were 20 and he was doing this, you could change him. 30, maybe. He's 70. He's not even — and he doesn't even have any interest in trying. "I don't want to hear their complaining." It's really tough. I think you have a few options here. Option one, you sit back, you don't bring new clients into the fold. You run out the clock till Seymour retires to his timeshare in Aruba, until you can take over. And you know, not spray empanada dust on the very people you're hoping will pay you to do work for them. The upside is, you don't burn any bridges with clients. You protect your reputation. You do things very differently when you take over. But man, the risk is, you don't bring in new business and demonstrate your value, there might not be any company to take over, which is a significant downside.

[00:37:23] Option two, you take a chance, you give Seymour some much needed feedback on how he's coming across the upside. He might change his ways at least a little bit. You might save the company and secure your future. The risk is he might just reject your feedback. He might get hurt or angry, and of course, turn that on you, and then your relationship might suffer. But honestly, I'm leaning towards option two for a few reasons. First, if what you're saying is all true, I'm genuinely worried that there's not going to be much of a company or any company to take over one day. If you're losing big clients, not closing clients and you can't give this guy any feedback, it's just not going to work. So by giving Seymour a little bit of feedback and you're just trying your hand at that, you're not just helping him, you're actually helping yourself, and it's kind of like your last chance to help yourself. I'm also concerned that the cost of not speaking up is higher than the risk of saying something. Look, Seymour's probably going to notice that you're not bringing in new business, right? He's going to notice there's no new client lunches on his Franklin Covey calendar from 1994, and he might be like, "Yo, what's the deal?" At which point, you're going to have to explain the old, "I ran out of mechanical pencil refills" is not going to — it's only going to hold up for so long. So this conversation might be coming anyway. But actually the most important thing here is learning to have a tough conversation like this. That's very much a part of becoming a great leader. And one day, hopefully soon, you'll have to give an employee some direct feedback or draw a boundary with a difficult client or fire a vendor. So this is an important muscle for you to build.

[00:38:51] Gabe, the question is, how does she frame this in a way that Seymour can actually understand? Because my fear is that she goes to him and and says, "Hey, look, clients aren't responding well to you," and he just can't even begin to take that in. And then he is like, "You are just jealous of my success." Or he is like, "You're just being mean to me for no reason." Because this is a guy who doesn't seem like, he's like, "Screw everybody. I don't care. I don't understand this meeting didn't go well." It's totally different than, "They seemed a little uptight. Screw 'em." You know? It was more like, "Oh, that went great." And then he is like, "What? They didn't sign? I don't get it." There's not even like a little seed in his head that he's the problem. That's my issue with this.

[00:39:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, the problem with a guy like Seymour is that hearing criticism is probably very distressing to him. Otherwise, he wouldn't be working this hard to avoid it.

[00:39:39] Jordan Harbinger: Or again, to be fair to him, he's so old and close to retirement that he's just out of f*cks to give and he is like, "I don't want to deal with these people's BS at my age. Pass." But I really do think that he's just — there's no seed in there planted.

[00:39:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, all of these are possible, but I really suspect that it's more than that. I mean, when you say something like, "I don't want to hear clients complaining." when you are literally in a client service business, you are not just avoiding stress and annoyance or being a little dense, I think you're avoiding something in you that gets triggered by feedback from people whose opinion, like it or not, really does matter.

[00:40:11] Jordan Harbinger: That's true.

[00:40:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: So you would be walking a tough line in this conversation, but you do have one really helpful thing here, which is these clients you brought in the old crab cake victims, they passed on working with you guys and you also just lost this other large client. And they're not saying why, but these client's decision is itself a form of feedback and that's dollars and cents. And that is something that Seymour hopefully should be able to understand. So if I were you, I would frame this conversation around those losses. Get his attention with the objective reality that you guys are losing business and try to pin as much of this feedback on these clients rather than on your perception of him. So you could say something like, "Look, Seymour, I love this company that you've built. I'm honored that you're trusting me to take over one day. I'm committed to setting this place up to succeed. I want to protect your legacy. As you know, we took a couple of Ls recently." You might have to explain what Ls means because I don't know if Seymour's going to get it. But, "Took a couple of Ls recently. And when that happens, I like to ask myself, why did that happen? Could we have done something different? How can we learn from this? So I've been turning those questions over. I have some ideas. I wanted to see if you might be open to hearing them so we can figure this out together." And then I would stop right there and I would check in with him. And if he's like, "Hell no. You know, if those yahoos don't want to work with us, screw 'em." Well then you have two moves. I think move number one is, you say, "Okay, I hear you. You want clients to take us or leave us. I have a different lens on that, but I respect your stance." And then you just drop it.

[00:41:36] Move number two is, you say, "Okay, I hear you and I know it's really annoying when clients turn us down or when they fire us. Dude, it hurts me too, honestly, but I think there's something for us to learn here and it could help us make even more money in the future. So are you sure you don't want to talk about it?" obviously, I'm a fan of move number two. I think you at least got to try. I also don't think you have a ton to lose. It's also possible that Seymour goes, "Okay, I'm listening." You know, like, "What do you mean we could have done something different?" You know, he opens the door, just a crack. Then you could say, "Well, what I'm noticing in these meetings is that some clients are responding to us in a way that we don't intend. For example, those clients who turned us down, I'm not sure if you realize this, but a few minutes into our conversation, you jumped in, you started hitting them with a lot of questions, and I'm sure that was your way of trying to engage them. You wanted them to know that we really know our stuff and I appreciate that. But I think it came across very differently. I think they felt overwhelmed and maybe a little slighted, like it was kind of the Seymour show, which I'm sure you would agree, is not the vibe we want to create. With that other big client, the one that just left us, you remember that meeting? You know, my sense was that they were a little offended by that story you told about the Geisha bar you visited in Tokyo." Whatever he said at that meeting to piss them off.

[00:42:50] Jordan Harbinger: You know, Seymour loves a good geisha bar.

[00:42:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, if he keeps his shoes on at least. Second only of course, to the early bird special at Marie Calendars. Just getting that vibe. But yeah, frame it that way. Like, "I know that was you shooting the breeze. You and I have a much looser style around the office. But other people, you know, they have different tastes, they have different expectations. And if I'm being totally honest, I know you didn't mean anything by it, but it was a little uncomfortable and I'm pretty confident that that's why we lost them. And since they're the clients, I think it's important that we adapt to them."

[00:43:20] Jordan Harbinger: So I really like that script, Gabe. Way to walk that line. But I am dying to hear your script for telling 'em about the crab cake fiasco.

[00:43:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: That one's tougher.

[00:43:28] Jordan Harbinger: It's so awkward. I mean, how do you tell someone that they're essentially a neanderthal and they have no manners?

[00:43:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. You're the one who went up to the flight attendant and told them about the Cheeto feet.

[00:43:36] Jordan Harbinger: That's true.

[00:43:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: You're the one who's better at this stuff. I don't know. I think our friend here has to decide if she's going to give Seymour the gift of her honesty. So maybe you just say, "Look, Seymour, you know you're a straight shooter."

[00:43:47] Jordan Harbinger: "You shot those crab cake fragments directly at the target from across the table."

[00:43:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. "You're a literal straight shooter in ways that we all wish you weren't." Maybe you leave that part out. But yeah, "You're a straight shooter. It's one of the things I like about you. I'm pretty sure I know why these clients turned us down. I feel I owe it to you. I feel I owe it to both of us, honestly, to tell you it's something that is so easy to fix and if we avoid this in the future, I think we'll bring in a lot more money."

[00:44:11] Jordan Harbinger: Solid start. I like it. I'm hearing a lot of diplomacy here, Gabe. Not a lot of your spitting crab cake in people's face, but I just — I know I'm harping on this. How on earth is she going to handle that?

[00:44:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: We got to give her some words. I know. Okay. Then I guess here's what you do. You say, "You probably didn't realize it, but while you were talking, you were also eating and it was a whole situation around your face. And unfortunately, between the rapid questions thing and the talking with your mouth open thing, I unfortunately do think that turned them off." that's what you say.

[00:44:42] Jordan Harbinger: Not bad. I mean, I know it sounds like I just keep like bringing up the same joke, not trying to kill the joke, but you have to bring up the fact that he spits food out when he talks and that's not bad. That's basically what this is. You can't talk and eat. It's something I learned when I'm five and you're 75 and here we are, you know. Better late than never.

[00:44:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: You don't have to tell him that he eats like a geriatric toddler. But you do have to be clear enough for him to realize that he made a major faux pas. Yes, I agree.

[00:45:07] Jordan Harbinger: Right. And somewhere in there I would also say, "I want to keep killing it for you. I want to keep bringing in clients, but I need to know that we're going to handle them respectfully, tactfully. So I just wanted to get on the same page about where we need to adjust so that we can all succeed."

[00:45:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: I love that. That's exactly right.

[00:45:23] Jordan Harbinger: So if you frame it the right way, he might be able to hear it. I hope he can. But I do worry that you're up against a lot here. Because even if he can hear you out in this conversation, there's no guarantee that he's going to reevaluate his whole personal style. At which point, the question becomes, "Do you stick around until he is gone or do you bounce because Seymour is sinking the ship?" And that's a tough one. I don't know this company's prospects. I don't know how badly you want to run the place, whether there are other exciting opportunities for you out there. I'd take some time to write out the upsides and downsides of staying. Talk to as many trusted people as you can about this game and out a little. The other thing to consider is, at your age, a few years is a really long time. I worry you're going to be twiddling your thumbs, waiting for this guy to step down and then the company folds or suddenly he decides not to retire Logan Roy style. And then you'll just have wasted three years, putting up with this jabroni and his flying food projectiles for nothing, which would be a shame.

[00:46:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's a good point. I also just want to call out, going back to the thing at the very beginning of the letter, I do find it a little strange that Seymour is talking about handing over the company to her after two months on the job. I mean, look, maybe she really is that good and more power to her. I love that. But also, is it possible that Seymour is kind of talking out of his ass here a little bit? Does he have a pattern of making empty promises or saying things he doesn't fully think through or doesn't mean everything he says? Is he kinda like that kind of sales guy will say anything to get the client and doesn't really mean everything, you know? So is he saying that to get her to stick around and bring more clients in? That's another question.

[00:46:52] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:46:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Maybe this is also part of his general carelessness that she's coming up against here.

[00:46:57] Jordan Harbinger: So that was the first thing that hit me. I also find this a little sus. I am just not sure how much stock she should put in the promises of a guy who is famously misattuned and unselfaware. In fact, just to be on the safe side, I kind of think you should remove the idea that you're definitely going to take over the company from your calculation here. Because what I don't want is for you to pull punches with Seymour and make big plans for your future based on what could honestly just be the ramblings of an increasingly reckless and questionable boss. So the best advice I can give you, keep building great relationships outside this company. Talk to great people in your field. Stay open to other opportunities. Keep reevaluating whether this is really the right place for you. Maybe it is, maybe you really will take over and crush it. Or maybe this is a stepping stone to a place that actually knows how to treat clients well and capitalize in your amazing salesmanship. Both are fair, but you won't know until you know. And the first test is going to be go have this chat with Seymour, that's going to tell you a lot about whether there's a way forward here. Keep up the great work. Seymour's lucky to have you. Let's hope he acts like it. And good luck.

[00:47:59] You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines that makes Gabe's job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your school is asking for your girlfriend's nudes, or your dog busted you for having morning sex with your partner, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:48:22] Alright, what's next?

[00:48:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 33 and I have a strained relationship with my dad. My mom always encouraged him to build more of a relationship with me, but he was never interested. He would tell her that I only needed my mom, that he didn't need to have a relationship with me. When I did reach out to him, I was often ignored or he would make fun of my interests, so I ultimately just shut down.

[00:48:46] Jordan Harbinger: That's a bummer. I hate saying bummer because it understates it, but I'm just sorry to hear that. That's crap.

[00:48:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: When my parents divorced when I was 19, he threw himself into a rather cult-like church. He met a woman there and they were engaged within two months. When my brother and I questioned him about whether he was rushing things, he blew up. A month later, they got married during a church service because it happened to fit in with the pastor's sermon.

[00:49:10] Jordan Harbinger: Cool. That's not impulsive at all. That all sounds very responsible. What a pair.

[00:49:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay.

[00:49:15] Jordan Harbinger: "Hey, by the way, I have a 15 minute gap in my sermon. Do y'all want to like get hitched or something? Because I noticed you're dating —"

[00:49:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Tie their knot forever.

[00:49:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's, "You want to make a commitment in front of God and the whole church?" "Sure. Yeah, I got time. What are you doing for lunch? Nothing? Alright. That's the reception then." So ridiculous. So since this is Feedback Friday, I can only assume stepmom now becomes a nightmare. Either slowly over time or immediately. I'm going to go with immediately. But let's see.

[00:49:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Since then, his wife has been trying to distance my brother and me from him.

[00:49:45] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, well there it is. Although with a dad like this, I'm not trying to make light of your situation, what does distancing from you from him even mean?

[00:49:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Truly.

[00:49:54] Jordan Harbinger: You're not allowed to talk to the father who doesn't ever want to talk to you anyway and never showed any interest.

[00:49:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, exactly. He's only making fun of your interest on Skype once a week from now on.

[00:50:03] Jordan Harbinger: And again, I know we're having a laugh, but this sucks. As a father, this other dad, if you can even call him that, grinds my gears. How do you bring a child into this world and you don't celebrate and support them? For me, it was instant and automatic. For most parents, it's instant and automatic. I know she feels bad about this and she's internalizing some of this, but this guy is defective. He's a defective human. He's a defective father. If you don't feel a bond with your children, maybe for the first few months, you get worried about that. I was worried about that. Other dads say they were worried about that. After that though, you know, you've got your 19-year-old daughter, if you're not attached to her, that's a "you" problem. That's not her. That has nothing to do with the kid. You — there's something wrong with your brain as a man. As a dad. That's a "you" problem. So I won't harp on that anymore.

[00:50:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, when I lived with them for a couple months 10 years ago, she spent that time threatening me and when she wasn't threatening me, she was fighting with him. At one point, she cornered me in our garage to tell me that I should move out and that she would like to move in with me because since I'd been home, my father wasn't the same.

[00:51:05] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. This woman is all over the place. Does she like you or not? I'm super confused here.

[00:51:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's so confusing. Is she saying, "I would rather live with you because your dad sucks now?" Or is she saying, "I want to move in with you and ruin your life the way you've ruined mine?" I can't tell.

[00:51:20] Jordan Harbinger: It's a little some from column one, some from column two, probably. But it's unclear.

[00:51:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:51:23] Jordan Harbinger: What I do know is that no one should be living with this woman. My God. She sounds like a head case.

[00:51:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: When I told her I wouldn't be living with her, she told me that my dad gave her an STD before they were married. And that's why they rushed everything.

[00:51:37] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, talk about your oversshares. What? Why would she tell you that? Eww.

[00:51:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also not a great pitch for living together, is it?

[00:51:44] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:51:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: "Your dad gave me an STD. You want to share a toilet?" Like, what?

[00:51:47] Jordan Harbinger: Seriously, "I have "The clap." Can I borrow your loofah?" This woman sounds like she's just off her fricking rocker.

[00:51:54]

[00:51:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: When I confronted my dad about this, he told me I needed to grow up. "Lots of people have herpes," he said. And she was aware of that before they had sex.

[00:52:02] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Well, he's not wrong, and it's not even that big of a deal. For people who have herpes out there, I am not making light of your situation. I just think it's gross that you're talking about it with your stepmom and it's because your dad like why are you talking about this?

[00:52:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Why are they talking about this? That's right.

[00:52:18] Jordan Harbinger: This is between them. Once again, ew. Not you, herpes. Ew, dad and my stepmom banging and giving each other STDs. That's the gross part.

[00:52:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: I packed that night and moved out.

[00:52:28] Jordan Harbinger: I bet.

[00:52:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: And took my loofah with me. I'm just kidding. She didn't say that.

[00:52:33] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:52:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: His wife later lied to my brother about how I found out about the STD and constantly tried to cause fights between us all. Our relationship has been distant and rocky since. Then last year, I received an extremely long text out of the blue, letting me know that I'm not a good daughter and that I'm not a priority to him, but not in his usual language and spelling. I showed my brother and we both thought that his wife was probably up to her tricks again.

[00:52:57] Jordan Harbinger: Don't you love when you get a text that you just know somebody else wrote it?

[00:53:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, it's the best. Yeah. It's like your very own personal little ventriloquist show. Except the play in this case is about your childhood trauma.

[00:53:08] Jordan Harbinger: And just like ventriloquism, super creepy. I will say though, sometimes it's funny. Like one time I got a text that was written really well, and I was like, "That's weird." And then it was like, "This is mom using dad's phone." And I was like, "Oh, okay." Because my dad does not — once you see people write that you've known your whole life like your parents and you realize, "Oh, he doesn't know the difference between A-R-E and O-U-R." He says, "On are way." And I'm like, "That's — wait, what? Did you read that when you type — you type that." So this woman is using the dad as a pawn, right? Or she's putting words in his mouth or she's just grabbing his phone and sending it and she's like, "I'm going to make her — I'm going to hurt her feelings becaause she doesn't want to live with me."

[00:53:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: I guess. Yeah. That must be it. So this is all so petty. So she goes on, after my parents' divorce way back when, I started therapy and have continued on and off for most of my adult life. One thing every therapist I've seen has agreed on is having limited to no contact with my father. After this latest exchange, I went back to therapy and decided to go completely no contact. Several months later, my husband and I got pregnant and I decided to let him know.

[00:54:17] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, well, hey, congratulations. Sorry about your dad being a POS. But this pregnancy, super exciting and Mazel tov.

[00:54:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: He then texted my brother and me saying that he's had dementia for over two years, but that he hasn't been formally diagnosed. So my brother got my dad seen at the hospital where he works. In that appointment, we found out that he had strokes he didn't tell anyone about, and that he does in fact have Lewy body dementia, a type of dementia that affects movement and mental function, but that it hasn't been going on for as long as he claimed.

[00:54:46] Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. So he's hiding certain stuff from you and he might be playing up other stuff. This is all very sus.

[00:54:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: My brother is now healing his relationship with our dad — visiting him more, and helping with his care, and he feels that I'm going to regret not opening myself back up to him. But I simply do not feel the same desire as my brother to go out of my way for my dad.

[00:55:09] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Gee, I wonder why.

[00:55:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: He encouraged my dad to write me a letter. It listed some school accomplishments that he was proud of, a brief apology, and that was about it. I don't know how to respond, nor do I really want to. I know our relationship upsets my brother, but we ultimately had two different relationships with our father. Am I the bad guy for not writing back? How do I maintain my stance without upsetting the family balance? Signed, A Daughter Finding Her Way and Trying To Stay Above the Fray When Her Father Turned the Other Way, Which the Family Now Wants To Downplay.

[00:55:41] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man. Well, okay, as with so many Feedback Friday letters, there's a lot going on here. We could talk for hours about all this, I'm sure. But just to get to the heart of things here, no, I don't think you're the bad guy for not responding to this latest overture from your dad for maintaining your stance with him. Your dad, he wasn't a great dad to you. Not good. It doesn't sound like he even wanted to be a great dad to you, or maybe it's more fair to say that he couldn't. Either way, this is not a parent who's earned a ton of love and loyalty from you. When you tell your partner that your child only needs them, that you don't need to have much of a relationship with your child, and then you ignore your child, you straight up make fun of their interest, and then decades later when you have a chance to repair things, you write some lame ass notes. It's like, "I really liked your fifth grade book report about The Giving Tree. Sorry I didn't want to hang out with you very much. Maybe give me another chance?" When you fumble this relationship time and time again, what do you think is going to happen?

[00:56:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:56:38] Jordan Harbinger: It's super sad, right? But I'm afraid there just isn't much of a relationship here. It's not like you had a great relationship when you were young and then there was a divorce and he got distanced and yeah. No, there was just never anything. Now your brother clearly had a different relationship with your dad. Maybe they had a stronger connection, or maybe he just has a soft spot for him. Maybe he feels responsible for him somehow. Maybe he feels guilty. I don't know. Your dad is extremely lucky to have your brother's help, like with that doctor's appointment, and I'm glad your dad has that, I guess at least. But yeah, you and your brother, you had different dads kind of, right? At least you had different experiences of your dad. And if the dad you had was more hurtful, more distant, less safe than the dad your brother had, then it makes sense that your obligation to him would be different. So my feeling, it is entirely fair to maintain different boundaries with him, to have a different level of contact and all that. And it's entirely fair for your brother to go a different way with your dad if that's really what he wants to do. I think you guys can respect the different choices you each make when it comes to being there for him. But given the facts here, I'm sorry, but I just — I'm not feeling a ton of sympathy for this guy at all. And if I were you, I'd probably be making the exact same call.

[00:57:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree and I get it. But this is tough because even if she intellectually understands that, which I get the sense that she does, because she decided to go no contact with him in the past. I'm sure it's still pretty hard for her to watch her brother be so kind and so forgiving toward her father, given how he treated her over the years.

[00:58:03] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. I get that. I wouldn't be surprised if she's a little angry about it too. Like, "Why are you so accommodating to the guy who hurt me my whole life? What the hell?"

[00:58:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: And if so, part of her job is feeling that anger and that disappointment and that sadness, and finding ways to process those feelings on her own, and reminding herself that her brother's decision here is a reflection of her brother and his feelings about their dad, not of her, right? But to your point, I also feel that her brother needs to shift his perspective a little bit here too, and accept that our friend has some valid reasons for keeping her distance from dad. Her relationship with him upsets her brother. I think that speaks to his very different feelings about their dad. Clearly. It also probably speaks to his ability to tolerate a difference in opinion between him and his sister. And on that point, I do feel for her brother because he must feel that tension too himself. He probably has to go over there and he has to listen to his dad and stepmom, grumble about the sister. And it's uncomfortable to be in that situation. It's sad, it's stressful. So I get it. But I also suspect, and look, I'm going to — I'm speculating here a little bit, but I suspect that when our friend here says, "I'm sorry, but I'm not going to drop everything to go take care of a father who treated me pretty poorly my whole life," that might stir up some tough feelings in her brother, right? He might see that and he might go, "Mmm, should I feel dumb for helping dad?" You know, "Why can't I draw boundaries like that?" Or, "Why does it fall on me to take care of dad?" even if he does want to do it. "Can I still be close with my sister if we disagree about something this big?" You know, all sorts of thoughts and feelings. For all we know, her brother might be angry too. He might be confused. He might even envy our friend here a little bit for being able to take this stance on some level. And a lot of this is probably unconscious. But instead of recognizing those feelings and maybe sharing some of them with his sisters so they can talk about them, which is admittedly very hard to do. Instead of doing that, it sounds like his impulse is to want to end that difference and end that tension. So he goes to his sister and he says, "Hey, I think you're going to regret not opening yourself up to dad." And then he goes to his dad and he says, "Hey, you need to write her an apology letter and make this right."

[01:00:03] Jordan Harbinger: Right. He becomes the diplomat. He tries to patch things up.

[01:00:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is sweet in a certain way, and I'm sure it comes in part from a genuine desire on his part for harmony and their family, which is wonderful. But it might also come from an anxiety about finding himself on a very different page from his sister. So it's like, is he trying to meaningfully repair these relationships or is he trying to put a bandaid on these very real wounds so that he doesn't have to be on his own here or feel like he's caught in the middle?

[01:00:31] Jordan Harbinger: Which if that's something this family did a lot growing up, I could see how that would also be a part of why our friend is so angry. She might be going like, "Ugh, can you just listen? Can you just let me honor my totally valid feelings about our crappy dad?"

[01:00:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly right. So I completely agree that she can go her own way here and she probably should, especially if dad continues to be this way. But I don't think that there's a way to maintain her stance without upsetting the family balance as she put it. Because the way this family operates, the way many families operate, the family balance depends on her kind of ignoring these very real wounds, dishonoring her feelings about a parent who hurt her pretty badly and ultimately, compromising on what sound like very important boundaries for her.

[01:01:13] Jordan Harbinger: Right. And if upsetting the family balance is the cost of her having some integrity and protecting herself, then my feeling is okay, that's the cost.

[01:01:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Being true to herself here means that everybody involved — dad, brother, even stepmom, who is a whole other situation, they all then have to live with the feelings that her stance brings up. And that's not inherently bad, it's just hard.

[01:01:35] Jordan Harbinger: That's their job.

[01:01:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. It's their job. And hey, maybe this is something worth sharing with your brother, you know. Maybe you can help him understand why you feel the need to take the stance given the childhood that you had. And maybe you tell him, "Look, you and I feel differently about dad. That's kind of hard for me sometimes. I can see that it's hard for you two, but maybe we can start to accept that, you know? But you pressuring me to change my mind with him, saying that I'm going to regret it. I know you just want us all to be good, but that's not very helpful or appropriate to me right now, given what has played out here."

[01:02:04] Jordan Harbinger: Right. That could be a really good conversation for them. What I like about that is, she wouldn't necessarily be trying to change her brother's mind the way that he's been trying to change hers. She'd just be saying, "Hey, this is my experience. You have your experience. So maybe let's start by getting more comfortable embracing that and just still being cool."

[01:02:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[01:02:21] Jordan Harbinger: So there's our take. You are not the bad guy here, but you can always reconsider this boundary with your dad if the facts ever change. Like if he ever makes a meaningful apology and he wants to engage with you differently, or if your own feelings about him and what you feel like you owe him change, totally fair. Just keep being kind and compassionate while you're also firm about all this and you'll be okay. I'm so bummed and sorry that you had this dad. It sucks. There's no way around. It dems the breaks, I guess. And I think you're doing a lot right here by staying connected to what you need. And congrats again on the baby. That's super exciting. I'm sure, you know, you'll actually want to hang out with your child and somehow refrain from making fun of their interests as they grow up. I'm shaking my head at your dad's behavior, but you don't have to repeat any of those patterns. So congrats and good luck.

[01:03:06] Who needs a crazy stepmom when you've got these crazy good deals on the products and services that support this show? We'll be right back.

[01:03:16] This episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show is brought to you by Nissan. Ever wondered what's around that next corner, or what happens when you push further? Nissan SUVs have the capabilities to take your adventure to the next level. As my listeners know, I get a lot of joy on this show talking about what's next, dreaming big, pushing yourself further. That's why I'm excited once again to partner with Nissan because Nissan celebrates adventurers everywhere. Whether that next adventure for you is a cross-country road trip or just driving yourself 10 minutes down the road to try that local rock climbing gym, Nissan is there to support you as you chase your dreams. So take a Nissan Rogue, Nissan Pathfinder, or Nissan Armada and go find your next big adventure. With the 2024 Nissan Rogue, the class exclusive Google built-in is your always updating assistant to call on for almost anything. No need to connect your phone as Google Assistant, Google Maps, and Google Play Store are built right into the 12.3 inch HD touchscreen infotainment system of the 2024 Nissan Rogue. So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show and for the reminder to find your next big adventure and enjoy the ride along the way. Learn more at nissanusa.com.

[01:04:15] This episode is also sponsored by Conspirituality. We're living in a world absolutely saturated with information and some real nonsense, to put it politely, but there are folks out there doing the hard work to cut through the noise like this show and the folks on the Conspirituality Podcast. It's not a casual chat. You got a journalist who knows the ins and outs of fact checking. You got to cult researcher who goes down rabbit holes that you don't even want to know exist, and a philosophical skeptic to keep everybody in check. They're taking on everything from anti-vax, conspiracy theories, to the murky ideology followed by the Wagner Group. Remember the guy who got blown up by Putin in a plane? And they are pretty good at not just throwing opinions at you, they provide insights that make you go, "Okay, I'm going to think about that in a different way." and they're all on that good proven science, which I can get behind. They take on the wellness industry. There's an EMF and 5G episode. Chem trails. So if you like Skeptical Sunday, I think I've mentioned this before, then Conspirituality's a good show for you. Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[01:05:14] If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com/deals. Thank you for supporting those who support the show.

[01:05:32] Now back to Feedback Friday.

[01:05:34] Okay, next up.

[01:05:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 25-year-old first generation daughter to Indian immigrant parents and after a tough upbringing in middle Georgia, I'm getting sick and tired of this place. I eventually moved out of my parents' house and in with my best friend from college, which was a battle. It was the classic, "What are people going to think about you living with someone not Indian?" thing. My best friend is black and hearing things like, "You won't last a year and you'll be back home."

[01:06:02] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, these are tough parents, man. Bit of a theme on today's episode, apparently. This is more than just the whole like strict Asian parents thing. The rooting for you to fail part is probably the saddest, but the keeping up appearances thing and the not so casual racism, not really a great look either. So yeah, I'm sorry you're dealing with all this.

[01:06:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: So tough. So she goes on, I know my parents do love me and want the best for me in their own distorted way, but what they think is best for me is not what I think is best for me. My parents are very involved in their tight-knit community and religion, causing them to be very narrow-minded. Growing up, they often compared me to other people and commented on my skin color and weight every day without fail. They don't know the real me because every time I open up, I get shut down. I've tried talking to them about why a relationship is strained, but they turned things around on me saying, "How could you ever think that? Everything we've done is for you." Which means paying for everything and buying the nicest things, which I would trade for an actual relationship with them any day.

[01:07:02] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, that is so sad.

[01:07:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is incredibly sad. To be fair, they're immigrants to America. They probably worked insanely hard.

[01:07:08] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sacrificed a lot to give their daughter good life. So when they say something like that, I'm guessing they mean, "How could you be mad at us? All we do is try to make your life better."

[01:07:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:07:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: But their way of making her life better is so flawed and it's hurtful. And so their help comes with these big costs. These parents can't make room for both of those facts.

[01:07:26] Jordan Harbinger: So it's an interesting question how much to hold that against them.

[01:07:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[01:07:29] Jordan Harbinger: If their background makes it hard for them to do that. Like, what point do you stop saying, "Oh, you guys are just stereotypical Indian parents" and start going, "Okay, you guys are kind of a-h*les."

[01:07:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Yeah. Very confusing. I think she's in the process of figuring that out.

[01:07:44] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:07:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, my parents want me to marry a very specific Indian guy who is of the same religion, caste, level of wealth and respect status in the community. I have a bachelor's in biomedical engineering and a master's in electrical engineering. I'm financially stable. I think I'm pretty decent looking. I have a great personality, but none of that means anything to them because I don't meet the ideal beauty standard. So in their eyes, I need to settle for what I can.

[01:08:12] Jordan Harbinger: I do not like the sound of this at all.

[01:08:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: They once tried to pawn me off on the son of a wealthy family they didn't even want to do business with, and it took me one phone call to find out that he's abusive.

[01:08:25] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

[01:08:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: I went off on them and they haven't brought me another option since. I've always said that I'll marry whoever I want to marry, but they think it'll be somebody they expect.

[01:08:34] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, okay, I'm sorry, these parents are starting to really piss me off. I want to be empathetic with people with very different values, but this is bullsh*t, right?

[01:08:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[01:08:43] Jordan Harbinger: She's this super smart engineer scientist. She's financially solid, she's cute, she has an awesome personality and a healthy degree of confidence and self-worth from the sound of it. Which by the way, given these parents? Kind of a big accomplishment and a testament to her own resilience.

[01:08:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed.

[01:08:57] Jordan Harbinger: And they're like, "Sorry, you don't look like, I dunno, Priyanka Chopra or whatever. So you got to just take what you can get. And that basically means, whoever we tell you to marry. And yeah, he slapped his ex-girlfriend around a couple times, but whatever. Sometimes you got to do —" I mean, what are you talking about? This is messed up. Hashtag Feminism. Hashtag patriarchy. Hashtag insert cultural buzzword here. This is objectively wrong and hurtful. They are devaluing their daughter to her face, first of all, and putting her in danger. This is just not okay at all. Not okay.

[01:09:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then five years ago, I met a guy on Bumble. He worked in the British Army and he was stationed at an army base near me. Oh damn.

[01:09:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:09:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is going to be good. She's like our friend of yours got our very own Bridgerton over here.

[01:09:45] Jordan Harbinger: So I don't know what that is.

[01:09:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay.

[01:09:49] Jordan Harbinger: At all.

[01:09:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. It's not your gem whatsoever. Okay. So it's a show on Netflix that's based on these romance books. It's like a Victorian England period piece fantasy thing.

[01:09:59] Jordan Harbinger: I assume everyone listening right now is laughing at the fact that I don't know what Bridgerton is.

[01:10:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Probably, yeah.

[01:10:03] Jordan Harbinger: That nothing could be further from my areas of interest. Like, "No, It's a show on Netflix about romance novels that are set in old timey England." Like there's not one thing that overlaps with any shred of my interests.

[01:10:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Everybody listening right now is laughing at that, but while also fanning themselves, picturing our friend here secretly hooking up with a hot British soldier near her house.

[01:10:24] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, okay. I got it. Yeah, I'll probably give that a miss. Feedback Friday's all the romance novel nonsense that I really need. Also, if people from a former colony love one thing, I'm sure that it's going to be their daughter hooking up with a British soldier.

[01:10:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, man. I hadn't even thought about that. Hilarious. So, yeah. Okay, so she goes on, he eventually went back to the UK and we decided that we couldn't just be friends, so we made it official and have been doing a lot of traveling to make this relationship work. This has truly been one of the best things to happen to me. I love this guy. Beyond words. He's played a large part in my mental health journey. He's helped me see the world differently and understand myself better. He's kind, he's loving, funny, supportive, everything you would want in a partner. And his family is great.

[01:11:10] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my gosh. Marry this dude already. Have a bunch of adorable mixed race babies you actually love and listen to. And don't pawn off on creepy guys because they aren't Bollywood enough. Don't look back.

[01:11:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, okay. Well,

[01:11:20] I guess that's this letter answered.

[01:11:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:11:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Done.

[01:11:22] Jordan Harbinger: Next up. Obviously, I'm really on her side here. I'm like, "Go live that Bridgerton dream and don't look back." What is the issue here?

[01:11:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: But he's not Indian.

[01:11:32] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Okay.

[01:11:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's white, an atheist, in the military, not a respectable job to my family.

[01:11:37] Jordan Harbinger: Ah.

[01:11:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: And has a sleeve of tattoos.

[01:11:41] Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

[01:11:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Everything my parents would not want for me, but I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world.

[01:11:47] Jordan Harbinger: Well, now I'm fanning myself. Is this what Bridgerton is about?

[01:11:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is basically what Bridgerton is. Yes.

[01:11:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I'm adding that add to my list. Double thumbs up.

[01:11:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Click that plus. All right, so she goes on, my parents do not know about this relationship because they just might kill me or themselves. I'm joking, kind of.

[01:12:06] Jordan Harbinger: Oof.

[01:12:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know how seriously to take that. That is unsettling. And obviously, that raises the stakes on all of this.

[01:12:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But also, is that just another form of manipulation? "Marry who we want or our lives are going to be over. Also, we might kill you so your life will be over." I don't know, man.

[01:12:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[01:12:22] Jordan Harbinger: These parents. I know this is fairly common, but the bind they've put their daughter in here, now she's hiding, she's constantly stressed. It's all just not okay. And I'm also really worried about the maybe kind of sorta of kidding about the honor killing, but maybe not. That's not cool at all.

[01:12:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know. It's not. It's actually very disturbing.

[01:12:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:12:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm planning on making a move to the UK by the end of this year. It's easier for me to move there. I love it there. And I'll do anything to leave this place. Do I tell my parents about my boyfriend before I leave or after I've left? And how honest should I be about the timeline of our relationship? Signed, Reveal My Secret Beau Before I Go or Take It Slow and Possibly Invite More Woe.

[01:13:03] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay. Well this is quite a tale my friend. A Bridgertines Feedback Friday romance for the ages. I think you can already tell how we feel about all this. Our take on this probably won't be a surprise.

[01:13:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Except for the part where you said you might start watching Bridgerton. I did not see that coming.

[01:13:19] Jordan Harbinger: Watch me get way too into the show and start live texting you reaction like, "She did not just besmirch Mr. Fillings worth's honor in the drawing room."

[01:13:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: That is so eerily close to what the show is and honestly, I would love that. And also, it would be a nice change of pace from our usual texts about North Korea documentaries and arms dealing.

[01:13:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, well, maybe I'll watch it at four o'clock in the morning while I get over crazy jet lag. Anyway, which I don't have because of FlyKitt by the way. I'm really happy and quite impressed that your question was not, "Hey, should I move to the uk or should I stay here with my controlling parents and do whatever they want for the rest of my life?" I kind of thought that's where this letter was going at first, but you're already past that. You are going. You know there's a whole other life, a whole other experience of yourself and the world waiting for you in the UK. And I just want to say, I really commend you for that. I think that also speaks to the confidence that I mentioned a moment ago. Your sense of self, courage, conviction, they are phenomenal. Another person in your shoes, she might have backed down, gone with the program, dismissed or overlooked a lot of people like your roommate, like this guy. And that would be really tragic. Now I realize that I'm coming at all this with the American values, so that's my bias. I'm sure your parents, if they heard this episode, they'd be horrified and angry and leave us 18 one star reviews saying that we've disrespected their culture and we're corrupting their youth or whatever. But from where I'm sitting, your goals, your values, your mindset, they're leading you toward greater freedom and authenticity and happiness, and away from parents who, despite their somewhat good intentions, do not seem to have your joy at heart at all. They seem to have their joy at heart. It's not even really true joy, it's just their need for a status? The opinion of other people in the community, their desire for control over you. It's not really about your fulfillment at all. And yeah, we can forgive them to some degree, I guess. They don't know better. But that doesn't mean that what they say and do is not hurtful and holding you back. So all that to say, I'm super pumped and proud to hear that you're going no matter what. So do you tell your parents about your boyfriend before you leave or after? Do you come clean about the timeline? Do you keep that a secret? Honestly, I don't know if there's a right answer there. At some point, you're going to have to tell them, obviously. If things progress, you move in together. If you ever get engaged, they're probably going to have to know, unless you plan to just cut them off or you don't care to have too much of a relationship with them, which I don't — it doesn't sound like that's necessary at this stage. So part of me is going, "Why not just get this out of the way. You're already going to upset him by moving to another country. Might as well get all the bad news out at once. Why drop two bombs when you can drop one big one?" Also, for your sake, I'm excited about the possibility of you being honest with your parents. It's going to be a really scary conversation, no doubt about it. But it might also feel really good. It might be a huge relief and very enlivening for you. And of course, I am of two minds, but Gabe, I assume you are also of two minds.

[01:16:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. But I see your point. She's been cramping around her parents for so long.

[01:16:11] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[01:16:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: And hiding parts of her life, parts of herself that are so important. That's exhausting and it's depressing. And I think, yes, it will be really powerful for her to one day say, "I know this is not what you want to hear, and I'm sorry that this hurts, but this is who I am. This is what I want."

[01:16:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, no joke. This is almost — it's almost like coming out of the closet, except she's coming out of the values and goals closet, and it's a really big deal.

[01:16:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: On the other hand, you're already doing a huge thing by moving to the UK and I'm sure that that conversation alone is going to cause a thermonuclear meltdown with your family. So if you're looking at all that and you're going, "Eh, maybe I'm going to hold off on telling them about this guy until I'm gone." you know, one bombshell at a time, I get that. I think that's totally fair. Also, it's easy for us to sit back and say, "You know, just do it all at once. Get it out of the way." You have to listen to your instincts here. You got to do what feels safest and most manageable to you. Maybe it's more important for you to break the news that you're moving first, and then when the dust settles, you can tell them, "Hey, so I met this guy. I actually met him back home and then I moved here to be with him." Just know that that might make your parents even angrier. Maybe they'll feel that you lied to them and maybe they'll feel even more betrayed than if you just tell them before you move.

[01:17:19] Jordan Harbinger: Although, how much of an issue is that really going to be at that point? The worst thing has already happened.

[01:17:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Yeah, that's true. So maybe that's not much of a risk.

[01:17:27] Jordan Harbinger: She could also move and then tell her parents she met 'em once she got there.

[01:17:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: She could, but then she would be creating another lie.

[01:17:33] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[01:17:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: And then they're going to have to keep up that lie.

[01:17:35] Jordan Harbinger: That's my thing. Which that's going to be stressful all over again. They're going to have to constantly remember the lie, manage the dates. Pretend they haven't been together for a half decade already.

[01:17:42] Tell the family, like, "My parents don't know we met on Bumble and that I've met you already. We have to act like we —" you know, that's just too much stress.

[01:17:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Multiple lies.

[01:17:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's kind of like why I was like, "Oh, just rip off the bandaid." But, I don't know.

[01:17:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Part of the upside of this conversation with her parents is finally coming clean and you know, like the kids say, "Stepping into her truth," that's what's so powerful, and that means dropping the lies and the inauthenticity. So I do worry that lying about the timeline will kind of deprive her of that gift.

[01:18:08] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. But again, I really get why she might have to delay that part of the conversation. If they're going to fricking come after her with a knife or have nervous breakdowns.

[01:18:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[01:18:18] Jordan Harbinger: I'm thinking about that comment you made about your parents killing themselves or killing you, which I — you said like, "Uh, joking maybe, but not really." It might be prudent to prioritize the, "I'm moving to the UK" part of the conversation. Punt on the, "I'm marrying a white atheist soldier with tattoos" conversation, and just get yourself out of there safely. Thinking about it, if these parents really are this controlling, I'm actually quite worried that they could do something to make it impossible for her to leave. Like maybe they steal her passport or something.

[01:18:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good point.

[01:18:46] Jordan Harbinger: I don't want that to happen. Make sure you've got all the travel documents you need, securely at your place and not just like in a drawer, because your parents, they might go there and be like, ransack the place while your roommate's there and take your stuff. So that's another good reason to hold off on telling them about your dude, in my opinion. And I'm actually now leaning towards that because none of this means anything if you can't move to the UK safely and arrive in one piece. But I'm with Gabe. At some point, hopefully soon, I would just come clean about all of it because that day is coming one way or another and it's not just a practical concern. I think it's going to be a huge milestone for you, personally. Again, really sorry that you had these parents. These are tough parents. I know they mean well. I do believe they love you in their own way, but you said it best. What they want for you is not what you want for you. And if that's the case, then you have an obligation to honor and pursue the life that lights you up. And apparently, that means living in, I don't know, Salisbury with a British soldier with a big heart and a full sleeve of John Wick style tats and a family that loves and accepts you. I think that's really sweet. The journey might be hard at first and your parents might be an ongoing challenge for you, but I think this is great because hey, this is your journey. Sending you and your Bridgerton dream guy a big hug and wishing you all the best.

[01:19:58] Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Don't forget to check out the episode with Mustafa Suleyman, the CEO of Microsoft AI. Again, even if you're sort of over the whole AI thing, lots of good knowledge and takeaways in this one. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, which is the circle of people that I know, like, and trust, and I'm teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself in our Six-Minute Networking course. It's a hundred percent free. It is not gross, it's not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. These drills take just a few minutes a day. This is the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. You can find it all at sixminutenetworking.com. Also, there's a subreddit for the show. I don't control it. There's some conversation there. You can go and find it. If you don't know what a subreddit is, forget what I just said. But if you do, that it's over there at Jordan Harbinger. That's the name of the sub.

[01:20:50] If you haven't signed up yet, our newsletter — Wee Bit Wiser. It's a little bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered right to your inbox once a week. If you want to keep up with the wisdom of our 900 plus episodes and apply to your life, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com/news, right there on the website. Show notes and transcripts on the website as well. Advertisers, deals, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm on Twitter and Instagram @JordanHarbinger. I'm also on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram @GabrielMizrahi, or on Twitter, @GabeMizrahi.

[01:21:21] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Dr. Fraga's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. Does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.

[01:22:04] You are about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Yass Alizadeh, who escaped Iran after the Islamic Revolution.

[01:22:11] Yass Alizadeh: This uprising is about 43 years of oppression. We have a corrupt regime, which is an Islamist regime and has been torturing people. It has been denying them the basics of human rights. As you see as corruption doesn't really begin and end with hijab. It's everything and anything. It's about the dignity of making a living. None of that exists in Iran. People are poor because of this regime. They work hard, but they don't earn as much. It's horrendous the way people have been suffering in Iran — mentally, politically, psychologically, and emotionally. I don't think an American can actually imagine what it is like to live in a country that is not just a dictatorship, not just an autocracy, but its theocracy. That's what Iran is. . This is different this time. The power of social media, the power of support by the worldwide community and how Iranians are not backing down. There is uprising and protests in universities across Iran every day. This is a revolution and it will end beautifully with a free Iran, free from the grips of ayatollahs and IRGC.

[01:23:28] Jordan Harbinger: For more on Iran and the recent protests, checkout episode 746 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[01:23:37] Thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Learn more nissanusa.com.

[01:23:43] Adam Carolla: Hey , it's Adam Carolla. Not sure if you heard, but I do a podcast. Monday through Thursday, wherever you listen to podcasts. I team up with the very best comedians in the world, plus critical thinkers and all around nut jobs and offer my personal insight on current events, the state of the nation, and the stories you may have missed. As the world gets crazier every day, you can stay fairly sane. I'll keep you there. I'll handle the crazy. Nuance is often lost on today's world, but you can find it right here. Available wherever you listen to finer podcast. I'm Adam Carolla and I approve of this message.