The accidental discovery of your sister’s OnlyFans show has you worried it’s only a matter of time before the family finds out. Welcome to Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- The accidental discovery of your sister’s OnlyFans show has you worried it’s only a matter of time before the family finds out. What can you do to keep this from erupting into a full-blown scandal?
- When it threatens someone’s employment, how can a false report to the understaffed, overwhelmed, and overworked Department of Child Services be contested? [Thanks to attorney Corbin Payne for helping us with another sticky situation!]
- How can you gracefully leave a new job that makes you miserable without jeopardizing relationships with the friendly insiders who supported your hiring?
- How can you tell if a ghostwriter — who offers to pen the story of your life for a flat, up-front fee — is legitimate?
- How do you have the birds-and-the-bees talk with your kids when the message you want to convey differs from the “abstinence only” message their other parent favors? [Thanks, again, to Corbin Payne for giving us some guidance with this one!]
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi.
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
Please Scroll Down for Featured Resources and Transcript!
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If you want to learn how to debunk and dismantle conspiracy theories, make sure to listen to episode 363: Mick West | How to Debunk Conspiracy Theories here!
Resources from This Episode:
- Houthis in Yemen | Out of the Loop | Jordan Harbinger
- Ben Macintyre | Escaping from a Nazi Fortress Prison | Jordan Harbinger
- Support Your Favorite Creators | OnlyFans
- Seven Best Documentaries on Social Media Influencers and Creators | DIY Genius
- Corbin Payne | Twitter
- Help for Parents Falsely Accused of Child Abuse | Verywell Mind
- How to Quit Your Job the Right Way | Jordan Harbinger
- Signs You’re Not Well-Liked at Work (And What to Do about It) | Jordan Harbinger
- How to Avoid Ghostwriting Scams | Kevin Anderson & Associates
- What to Include in “The Talk” at Every Age | Parents Together
- Abstinence-Only Education is Ineffective and Unethical, Report Argues | Shots
936: Family Can’t Know About Sister’s OnlyFans Show | Feedback Friday
[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Ho, ho, ho. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your ho, ho host, Jordan Harbinger. That was cheesy, I'm going to admit it, but you know what? The thing is, the dumber the joke on this show, the more feedback I get about it, the more positive feedback. I should be clear.
[00:00:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: I, for one, loved it. I thought that was awesome. Great way to open the show this week.
[00:00:21] Jordan Harbinger: As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, a guy who's literally wearing a T-shirt today that says, "Pink Freud, the dark side of your mom."
[00:00:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: I am the original ho, ho, ho.
[00:00:32] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly, yes. Sigmund would be so proud. This is his legacy.
[00:00:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is it. He lives on in the T-shirts and the memes.
[00:00:38] Jordan Harbinger: I'm going to resist calling you my co ho, ho, host because it doesn't quite have the same ring to it. And by the way, I'm not even making fun of you for that shirt, Gabe. It's quite clever. I kind of wish I had that shirt.
[00:00:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know. It's amazing.
[00:00:50] Jordan Harbinger: On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, former jihadi, undercover, economic hitman, gold smugglers, Russian spies, astronauts, CEOs, and rocket scientists.
[00:01:14] This week we did an Out of the Loop episode about the Houthis in Yemen. If you don't know what's going on with the missiles hitting the transport ships and the shipping lanes, and the Yemen Civil War and the Saudi Arabia thing, this episode is for you. We definitely bring you back into the loop on that. This stuff isn't going away anytime soon. In fact, looks like the US might even now be getting involved over there. I guess we'll see.
[00:01:35] We also had Ben Macintyre. Something we never do on this podcast. I usually don't do episodes like this at all, but this was just purely history. We explored a Nazi prison castle that held POWs in World War II and had all kinds of insane escape attempts from tunnels to hang gliders and guys making Nazi uniforms out of soap bars so they could pose as the guards and escape. Really interesting stuff if you're into history and just a bit off of our usual beat.
[00:02:02] On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play increasingly absurd soundbites and mercilessly roast Gabe for his apparel choices except for today because again, objectively killing it with the Freud gear.
[00:02:15] Before we dive in, I've been getting some emails from people recently asking about the difference between Iranian and Persian, I guess because they're probably hearing a lot of Persian and Iranian people say, "Hey, we're not the same as the Theocrats over there in Ayatollah land." So basically, most people agree that Persian relates to a particular ethnicity and culture, and Iranian is acclaimed to a certain nationality slash country, the country of Iran.
[00:02:39] So the reason this matters, from what I can tell is that everything you've heard about Iran, especially from the US government or the media, it's largely negative, right? A lot of Persian people, they don't want to be associated with that. They are not their government, and in some cases it was, and obviously still is dangerous to be associated with the country of Iran.
[00:02:57] Either because the country you live in now doesn't like Iran or because the government of Iran doesn't like you, even though you're Iranian and you don't live in Iran and they try to kill you, a la the hit squad episode we did a few weeks ago. So a lot of Iranians prefer to refer to themselves as Persian to distance themselves from the current regime and the immensely poor reaction of their fellow citizens, usually in the West or the us, whatever.
[00:03:20] It's also worth noting that being Persian isn't limited to being Iranian. Actually, it took me a minute to sort of realize this. This is where things get kind of murky, but my understanding is that part of the concept of being Persian is also the culture and language rather than your family being from the exact borders of Iran, it's probably a lot like being Jewish in many ways, Gabriel, where you could be Persian.
[00:03:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.
[00:03:39] Jordan Harbinger: Even if you were born in Brooklyn.
[00:03:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:41] Jordan Harbinger: Or you can be Persian even if your family's from Azerbaijan or something like that and they were merchants and they ended up being headquartered there for three generations. You're still Persian, but you're also Azeri. In fact, we do have some friends of friends whose parents are Azeri in country of origin or Azerbaijani in country of origin, but still consider themselves Persian. They speak Farsi. They come from a Christian background, I think, which like adds another layer. Because you don't have to be Muslim to be Persian. Also the word Persian refers to the language. Farsi is just Persian in the Persian language. That's how you say Persian. So that can be confusing, but it shouldn't be.
[00:04:13] Anyway, just wanted to clarify that. I think it's interesting and also because it's an important distinction, especially given how many Iranians or Persians are spread across the world and given all the awful things done by the current Iranian regime, which is a separate thing from this very rich and beautiful culture whose food I tend to enjoy at least on a weekly basis.
[00:04:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is that The More You Know soundbite?
[00:04:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yes it is.
[00:04:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: The More You Know.
[00:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Good memory, man. I wonder how many people are like, "Well, I don't know why he just played that." Anyone over 40 knows what that is, '90s kids.
[00:04:44] Anyway, fun ones doozies. Let's dive in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
[00:04:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm about to propose to my girlfriend and she was recently asking about my older sister who is 33. She and I don't talk because we live on opposite coasts and the time difference and her routine don't allow for a lot of overlap and free time. She's been out there for more than a decade and never comes home to visit. I gave my girlfriend a copy of my sister's book of poetry under a pen name, and it took all of five minutes for her to find my sister's other names and Internet accounts, including an OnlyFans account.
[00:05:23] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I know that's like two soundbites within two minutes, but I'm pretty sure that one was warranted.
[00:05:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was warranted, but we're pushing the soundbite limit I think.
[00:05:30] Jordan Harbinger: I think so. I'm done for a minute.
[00:05:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was mortified. I knew my sister was into Internet culture, but I had no idea that she did OnlyFans.
[00:05:39] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm.
[00:05:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: My girlfriend described her as basically an anime character with giant boobs and a huge butt, clearly plastic surgery.
[00:05:48] Jordan Harbinger: I think I'm starting to understand why she never comes home to visit. Not that there's anything wrong if this is how she wants to look, it's her choice, but I'm guessing she's trying to hide all this from you guys, including her appearance. Because it's kind of hard to hide giant boobs and a massive butt and just be like, "Oh, I gained a little bit of weight." You know what? What's happening?
[00:06:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm baffled by why she would even think to do this. We're from a wealthy family and she gets all of her expenses paid for by my dad, rent, car, credit card, even a monthly allowance.
[00:06:14] Jordan Harbinger: Clearly, it's not just about the money. Attention, validation from strangers on the Internet would be the obvious reasons, but maybe the money's good too. Frankly, there's somebody to be said for a sense of independence gained by not having to totally rely on dad, even if she still does cash his checks.
[00:06:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Kind of having it both ways there. But I hear you. Yeah. You live life on your own terms or something. I don't know.
[00:06:35] He goes on, if this gets out, I already know it's going to cause massive drama. My soon-to-be wife's family are immigrants with traditional values and she already said that this can never reach them.
[00:06:47] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm. Okay. I mean, it's not really their business and it's not your fault, but I suppose I get your concern.
[00:06:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: My mom and dad would be devastated too. They never grasped the whole Internet celebrity concept. And my mom would always say, "As long as she doesn't do porn," or anything like that.
[00:07:03] So literally, mom's worst nightmare this, unless she's like, I don't know, it's unclear what the sister is actually doing on OnlyFans. She might be streaming herself playing video games partially naked or something. I don't know. Twerking while she plays League of Legends or whatever.
[00:07:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.
[00:07:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hard to say.
[00:07:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So it's unclear whether she's doing porn, but even if she's not in their view, it's probably, at least in the vicinity, I can just hear poor mom now, like "Naked League of Legends, my little baby playing Naked League of Legends. Where did we go wrong?" She should be playing naked Halo. It's got a much smoother learning curve.
[00:07:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh man.
[00:07:37] Okay, so he goes on. We're supposed to go see her soon for the holidays. My parents are going to ask questions about what she does for a living, and they're obviously going to know she had work done.
[00:07:46] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Well, she can't hide them, Sailor Moon like surgery enhanced cakes forever, but that's for her to deal with.
[00:07:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is exactly. I'm getting the sense that he feels somewhat responsible for his sister, or actually maybe more responsible for how she makes other people feel, their parents, his in-laws.
[00:08:03] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.
[00:08:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: But let's come back to that.
[00:08:05] So he goes on. A few days ago, I told my sister that I knew about her OnlyFans. She didn't really understand what was so wrong with it saying that none of it was formally explicit. aka nude.
[00:08:17] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so it's not porn.
[00:08:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:19] Jordan Harbinger: She's just like talking about her day and her booty shorts or whatever, but still, I guess it's over there.
[00:08:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: I pointed out that it's close enough to be controversial. She wants to produce music and be a singer, and I told her that almost all of these guys just see her as a sexual object and that record labels will not take her seriously. She agreed to ask the people she knows in the music industry for their opinion and gear, the content she makes to people who will stick around through her music career.
[00:08:45] Wow. Okay. I have to say that actually sounds like a really good conversation.
[00:08:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I mean, I agree. You told her you're concerned. She took him in, she said she'd seek out some counsel. She's open to being thoughtful about how she markets herself, what kinda audience she's building, all this. I mean, that sounds pretty encouraging.
[00:08:59] That said, if she really wants a career in music, has she not already consulted the people she knows in the industry? It seems like she should have done that first. Anyway—
[00:09:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: The next day I got a text from her saying that she had talked to people, taken my advice, and decided to shut down her Instagram with the content, admitting it was not the best look. I said that I want her to do things she's proud of and that her friends and family can openly share.
[00:09:24] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so she shut down the Instagram, but not the OnlyFans. I wouldn't necessarily have driven her to that conclusion, but if that's what she wants to do and that's the best thing for her brand, I'm all for it. Awesome.
[00:09:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: You mean not because you disagree with the outcome, but because it's not his place to tell his sister what to do with her career.
[00:09:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, but also it's probably a good move because if you're like, "I'm a producer," and someone's like, "Yo, this you?" And they're holding up you playing Naked League of Legends or in Lingerie, it's like, really?
[00:09:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Although that's also an interesting question. You know, what is controversial these days. I feel like if you build a following in some way — I don't know. Our culture is so weird right now. I can't really tell what's a liability and what's not. But wasn't Cardi B an exotic dancer and she has a huge rap career, but is being an exotic dancer, is that in a different league from being a kind of vaguely porny OnlyFans person? Maybe. Hard to say. Maybe because it lives on the Internet.
[00:10:16] Anyway, he goes on. But I'm still worried that this will be a giant skeleton in the closet and will very easily come out if she does make a name for herself. If my parents ask me what I know about my sister, do I tell them? Or is it best to keep quiet and deny it? And how do I handle this with my soon to be family-in-law? Signed, In a Tussle Over My Sister's Side Hustle.
[00:10:38] Jordan Harbinger: Fascinating. Oh, there's gotta be so many people in your shoes, especially post pandemic, who have friends and loved ones who do OnlyFans on the DL.
[00:10:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:47] Jordan Harbinger: It does raise some thorny questions and it probably makes a lot of Thanksgiving dinners pretty awkward when weird cousin Kenny immediately recognizes your girlfriend and won't shut up about her online Mario Kart skills over the green bean casserole. Like, "Ah, you're pretty good with toad, huh?" So, it's interesting. I'm having two very different reactions here. And I think they're compatible.
[00:11:08] But Gabe, help me unpack this. Let's see if this makes sense.
[00:11:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay.
[00:11:10] Jordan Harbinger: On one hand, your sister never coming home to visit, dramatically altering her appearance, using her body, marketing herself in a way that can really skew your view of the world and be terrible for your mental health. All of that concerns me, just like it concerns you.
[00:11:23] On the other hand, it's your sister's life. It's her career, it's her body, and if she wants to build her brand and make money in this way, I'm not saying it's the right brand or that's the best way to make money or that's worth it, long run, I don't know. But if that's what she wants to do, I also think it's important to respect that.
[00:11:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:38] Jordan Harbinger: I think there's a lot of stigmatizing of this kind of work in a way that's not necessarily totally fair all the time.
[00:11:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think that's a fair point. Absolutely.
[00:11:46] Jordan Harbinger: So look, this work might be kind of unsavory to some people or unpalatable. It might go against your family's values. It might be beneath her or less than she's capable of in your mind or the minds of others, your parents. But I'm also not sure that imposing your expectations on her and especially your concerns about how all of this is going to look to your in-laws. I'm not sure that's entirely fair.
[00:12:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree with that. It's funny, part of this is her problem, what it's going to do to her career. And then part of it is his problem, what it's going to mean for his in-laws and, and that's not really her problem. So I agree with that and I think that is an important distinction, but that's why I love the conversation that they had.
[00:12:18] Jordan Harbinger: That was exactly the right thing to do.
[00:12:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Because he didn't go, "This is wrong. This is making my life harder. You should be ashamed of yourself. You need to shut it down right now for my benefit." And to her credit, she didn't go, "Okay. I am so sorry. Sorry, bro. Sorry, mom and dad. I'll do whatever you say. You guys are always right."
[00:12:33] He told her his concerns directly, respectfully. Many of them are legitimate. She listened. She said she would think about and talk to people, which is smart. She did that. She came back and said, "You know what? I see your point. I agree. I need to rethink this," and she made the call for herself.
[00:12:49] Honestly, I don't know about the morality of OnlyFans. I also have no problem with people doing sex work or something in that vicinity, in a safe way online, if that's what they want to do, or anything in that neighborhood. But I'm still a little confused about what she does, but on the level of their relationship, how they communicate as siblings, this all sounds pretty respectful and appropriate to me.
[00:13:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, for sure. Look, I'm a little biased towards our friend here for a couple reasons. First, I'm with you, Gabe. I have no ethical objection to people doing OnlyFans. I found out about it years before the pandemic, right? When it was sort of new and small and niche. Because there was a listener who was always like, "I love your podcast." And I was like, "Who is this guy?" And he had an OnlyFans link and I was like, "What is that? What is OnlyFans?" And he looked kind of a little porny in his photo. So I clicked on it and it was definitely some muscly dude, greasy oil, spray tanned. And I was like, oh, this is like soft core gay porn or whatever. And I was like, oh, all righty.
[00:13:46] So look, I have no ethical objection to people doing OnlyFans. There are people on their building, crazy big audiences, literally making millions of dollars and having fun. It's not all sex work. A lot of it is, but there's a spectrum here. So this isn't me being like some kind of prude or a moralist. But we also know that this kind of work can easily tank your mental health and it can damage your relationships in real life, and it can make you addicted to validation. And it can make you view your audience in a very narrow, utilitarian way, which is basically, how do I make money off you?
[00:14:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. And that is the problem. That is not healthy.
[00:14:18] Jordan Harbinger: No, it's not good. This is well documented. I didn't get this from a leaflet handed out to me outside of a church. Okay? There's research about this. This is not a puritanical talking point.
[00:14:28] So I'm not sitting here going, "Your sister's side hustle's despicable and she shouldn't be allowed to do this." I'm also not going, "More power to her. OnlyFans is a great way to present yourself to the world and make a living screw what everyone says," because you can make some good money, fine, but at what cost?
[00:14:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, especially because she has more to offer the world and she has bigger ambitions.
[00:14:46] Jordan Harbinger: Right. She's not just trying to be a camgirl for as long as she can, and that's where it ends for her. She's not doing this because she has no other outlet, source of income and she's gotta feed her kids. She wants to make music. She has an allowance from her parents. She could be a Walmart greeter if she wanted to, and then she could do her music career and this just might work against her.
[00:15:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:04] Jordan Harbinger: With the goal of ever doing anything else. So on a business level, it probably isn't the right move. The other reason I'm concerned, and again, this isn't coming from a judgmental place, but the plastic surgery thing is another red flag for me.
[00:15:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.
[00:15:16] Jordan Harbinger: Because she's 33. She's still so young and she's altering her appearance in some dramatic ways. I'm not saying anybody who's under the age of 50 shouldn't get plastic surgery. You want double eyelid, whatever, because you're Asian and you'll want, I can't even tell the difference honestly, but cool. If you want that. You know, do you, she's altering her appearance in some very dramatic ways and some probably irreversible ways. The writer said she looks like a cartoon because people on OnlyFans and specific Internet subcultures like that, and I do worry about what that says, about how she sees herself, how much she values herself.
[00:15:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: And again, to say nothing of what that means for her future career because she's locked into that look now.
[00:15:58] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Because now she's locked into some Sailor Moon, Cardi B mashup. It's a little scary, honestly.
[00:16:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, I agree with you there. For all these reasons. I do think our friend here was right to say something, but if she had dug her heels in, ugh, I probably also would've said, okay, you said your piece. Now you gotta respect whatever your sister wants to do. It's her life.
[00:16:15] So, okay, let's talk about the in-laws. What does he do there?
[00:16:19] Jordan Harbinger: All right, so my feeling there is I understand that it's uncomfortable for you to have a sister who looks and acts very differently from what your partner's family expects. Your sister feels like a liability to you, and maybe she is a liability. I get it. I really do. But like I said, she's not ultimately a reflection of you. None of her choices are your fault.
[00:16:41] And to Gabe's point, I think you might be carrying some sense of responsibility for her that's making all of this feel a lot riskier. And again, I get it. I think that's a normal response. But given that your sister has already done this, I do think that you now need to accept it. And to not conflate her choices with your image and your reputation.,
[00:17:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which also means accepting that your in-laws might find out about her one day and feels like such a remote possibility. But if they do, they're probably going to have some feelings about it. And that's their business. It's not really yours.
[00:17:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But I think his concern is it doesn't matter if that's how he feels, if his in-laws are the sort of people to hold something like that against him and the whole family.
[00:17:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Look, if they ever did find out, I'm trying to understand how they would, I'm guessing these people are not casually scrolling OnlyFans, and I doubt they're going to google your sister's pen name out of the blue. But if they ever did find out, he could tell them, "You know, look, guys, my sister is a very different person from me. She made some choices that I'm not a fan of. She ultimately agreed that they weren't the best decisions. She decided to change directions. I'm sorry that it makes you uncomfortable. Kind of made me uncomfortable too, but that's her life. I still love her. I know she's a good person, and I would ask that you separate your feelings about her from your opinion about me."
[00:17:54] To Jordan's point, they might or might not come around at your perspective, but that's where I think the better question actually is how do I make peace with other people's judgements about one of my family members? Like how do I let go of this identification with my sibling?
[00:18:09] Jordan Harbinger: That's exactly right. To me, that is the crux of his situation because look, he can't change his sister's appearance, right? And he can't magically wipe her digital slate clean and he can't completely control who knows what about her?
[00:18:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:21] Jordan Harbinger: The only thing he can control is how he makes sense of his sister, how he values himself, and how he handles these conversations when they arise.
[00:18:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: And a lot of that has to do with an inner boundary between him and his sister, and maybe between him and his parents, and between him and his in-laws. That boundary might not be as defined as it could be.
[00:18:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. And also maybe releasing his own judgments around his sister that he might've inherited from his family.
[00:18:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:47] Jordan Harbinger: Not that he's entirely wrong, in my opinion.
[00:18:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, no, that's a really good point. Because when he imagines how poorly his in-laws or his parents are going to react to his sister, he might be feeling that more acutely because he feels some of that judgment himself and maybe exploring whether those judgements are warranted, even if they're partly correct. Maybe that would help ease some of his anxiety.
[00:19:08] Jordan Harbinger: Now about how to handle this with your parents. I think everything we've been saying bears on that question too, but my take there is you can share as much as you want to share. You're allowed to pull back and not get too involved. I also think you're allowed to say, "Hey, you know, that would be a good question for her. I can't speak for my sister." Because even if you do know certain facts, that doesn't mean you have to be dragged into this.
[00:19:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, but also your sister embarked on this very public career knowing how it works. She understood that her friends and family might find out about what she does. I mean, she was also posting on Instagram, right? That's why she took it all down. So I don't know how much you need to keep your sister's secrets, because I'm not entirely sure that there really secrets at all.
[00:19:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Okay. But if you're unsure how to handle that, why not just ask her, "Hey sis, if mom and dad talk to me about your work or your appearance, what do you want me to say? You want me to tell them what I learned? Do you want me to stay out of it?" I think that's fair too.
[00:20:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: His idea to keep quiet and deny it is also interesting. It's a perfectly rational response, but I do wonder if playing dumb. Is yet another way to protect his parents and probably to protect himself. You know, like, "You guys can't possibly be hurt by this because I didn't even know." Or, "I'm going to play dumb here so you can't hold this against me." Just another possibility to consider.
[00:20:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's an interesting theory. That could be the case. So that's our take, man. This is unconventional, it's uncomfortable, it's confusing. I mean, we totally get it. Your instincts and your questions all make a lot of sense.
[00:20:31] But I think what your sister's life is really bringing up for you is the ways in which you identify with her, how you protect her, how you protect yourself, how you're now feeling some blowback from her choices in your own life. But a lot of that blowback might be in your head, or it might not feel as dangerous if you work through some of these ideas on your own first.
[00:20:51] I'm an only child, so I never had to deal with this myself, but my parents, they only had to be embarrassed by me and me alone. No one else had to do that. But I'm also fascinated by how siblings can sometimes share certain feelings, shame, judgment, fear, anxiety, how those experiences get distributed between them when really their only ones siblings to work through the one who made the choices in the first place. But that's family, baby.
[00:21:13] Trust that your sister can handle this in her own way and keep an eye on the healthy line between you and her. I promise that'll make all this easier. Good luck and I hope your future father-in-law doesn't like anime or League of Legends. So the topic of your sister's side hustle doesn't come up at the Christmas dinner table.
[00:21:28] Oh, if you like this advice, consider gifting Gabriel a premium subscription to your sister's OnlyFans. As you all know, pink Freud over here lives for some Naked League of Legends.
[00:21:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's me, dude. Huge video game guy. Famously.
[00:21:41] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Uh, I don't know. Maybe if she were live streaming herself reading civilization and its discontents or something, I would tune in. But if that exists, that's pretty niche.
[00:21:50] Jordan Harbinger: Something I did recently, there's an episode that's not out yet, but I did an episode about facial recognition technology with someone from the New York Times, and there was a guy in the book who his like kink was privacy stuff, which is a, you know, whatever kink be weird. What he did was he used facial recognition software to find OnlyFans people, and he would find them in real life. So he'd find like their high school yearbook photo or their college photos, and then find them on Facebook and find them on Instagram, which is like their personal account where they have like pictures of their kids—
[00:22:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh no.
[00:22:21] Jordan Harbinger: —at Disneyland, and then put them out online. His thing was like, "I know who you are."
[00:22:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh God.
[00:22:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He's like, "I never did anything with it," but I'm like, okay. But it's still super invasive. And also because you never did anything with it doesn't mean you're not telling other people about it.
[00:22:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:34] Jordan Harbinger: Or that other people who are way creepier—
[00:22:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.
[00:22:36] Jordan Harbinger: —aren't doing this. Basically, it's only a matter of time before somebody hacks OnlyFans gets all the creator content photos and they get scanned by facial recognition software, which the whole point of this software is to crawl every image everywhere of every person. That's the whole thing, right? So you're never going to get that out of the system when it's been put in there.
[00:22:56] So if you want to launch a music career without something like this haunting you, your time is limited, man. Get that stuff. I'm not saying this is fair. It's just the reality of the world now.
[00:23:05] You know what? You won't have to hide from your family at Christmas, Gabriel? The amazing products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
[00:23:14] This episode is sponsored in part by Jaspr. My friend Mike, inspired by his experience in home restoration following wildfire disasters, he developed Jaspr, which is a revolutionary indoor air purifier. He recognized that the standard home air purifiers, like the ones I already had, did not match the effectiveness of industrial models that he was using in commercial settings. And Mike innovated Jaspr to combine the best of both worlds. So this is like a high efficiency commercial air purifier that operates really quietly, looks like something you'd get at the Apple store, and notably Jaspr's superior performance. Has made it a popular choice in medical and dental offices. So in our house we've tested a lot of different brands, a ton, and Jaspr consistently surpasses others ine effectiveness. Now, I'm not running scientific tests in my house, but I can tell by the fact that stuff is getting caught in the filter and it's got an air quality monitor, which I have all over the house as well. So this thing swiftly adapts to increased air particulates enhancing its purifying capabilities. So in light of the increasing occurrences of wildfires near where I am, and just crappy air all over the place, in pretty much any city in America, owning an efficient air purifier like Jaspr is really essential. It's particularly effective. In capturing smoke particles, ensuring cleaner air. We had a fire across the street and man, that thing kicked up. We had all the windows and doors closed. Nothing kicked up. That's how I knew something was up because that thing kicked up. And then Jen called me. And those suffering from allergies or asthma, Jaspr will offer some significant relief by effectively trapping common allergens such as dust and pollen. A lot of people write in about that particular thing. It's one of my favorite items in the house. I highly recommend it. And right now, Mike is offering an exclusive deal just for our listeners. 25 percent off Jaspr Pro. That's the one I have. Just use code JORDAN at jaspr.co/jordan to claim the offer. Again, J-A-S-P-R.co/jordan.
[00:25:00] This episode is sponsored in part by DeleteMe. In this digital age, our personal info is floating around on so many data brokers sites. It's kind of scary. There are hundreds of data brokers that will collect and sell your personal data, making you at risk to identity theft, sneaky phishing scams. DeleteMe is a service that steps in to remove your info from hundreds of data broker websites. What I love about DeleteMe is how they do things quite differently. There's real people check in if your info's already with a data broker. That means they're not giving out your info by accident. It's not just for tech savvy folks. You can sign up your parents like I did, who are way more prone to all those scams out there. Very easy to sign up. You pop in your info online, they do the heavy lifting and they keep you in the loop and show you what they've been cleaning up.
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[00:26:03] Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
[00:26:19] Now back to Feedback Friday.
[00:26:22] Okay, next up.
[00:26:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, a few months ago, my school system hired this guy I will call Jim. We both worked in IT and he's a great person to work with and be around and he gets his tasks done. We've hung out with other coworkers after work for drinks and are part of a Dungeons and Dragons group. Then suddenly Jim stopped coming to work. A few weeks later, he told us that our HR department got a hit back on Jim's background check, and he had to be let go. Jim explained that years ago his sister was in an abusive marriage. Her husband would do everything he could to manipulate Jim's sister and would keep communication from supportive family members to a minimum. At some point, Jim told his sister that she should consider leaving the marriage due to the verbal and emotional abuse. Her husband found out about that and became upset. One day, his sister and two nieces visited him at his house. Jim had been out hunting earlier that day and took the opportunity to teach them about gun safety. The kids never handled or touched the gun themselves. When they returned home, his brother-in-law asked where they had been. When he found out about the gun part, he called the Department of Child Services and reported that Jim was waving guns around their kids and threatening them, basically made a false report. The local police did their due diligence, found no wrongdoing, and dropped their end of the case. DCS didn't pursue anything either, but unfortunately they didn't remove Jim from the potential child abuser list, which is why he was flagged on the background check by our school's HR. Since then, Jim has tried to contact every lawyer he could to see if there's anything he can do to clean a slate with DCS. All of the lawyers said the same. That DCS is understaffed, overwhelmed, and difficult to get ahold of. One of my friends who's a judge said that Jim will need a lawyer who can be aggressive in pursuing the information needed from DCS, but Jim hasn't found one who's both confident and affordable. What else can we do to help get Jim slate cleaned. Signed, Helping My Friend Clear His Name After This Dirty Game.
[00:28:28] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, what a cluster. I feel really bad for your boy. I guess this is a good reminder not to expose children to guns, especially if they're not your children, and especially if they're caught up in a contentious situation at home, that could lead to blowback for you. No pun intended. So this is really too bad because I think kids should learn gun safety.
[00:28:48] I learned gun safety as a kid multiple times in Boy Scouts, and it came in very handy over here living in America, especially Detroit, LA. But I know Jim's intentions were good. He just got really unlucky, poor guy.
[00:29:00] As per usual, we wanted to get a good handle on Jim's legal options here. So we reached out to defense attorney and friend of the show, Corbin Payne, and it was interesting timing because as it happens, Corbin just ran into this exact situation in real life with one of his cases.
[00:29:14] Apparently this sort of thing happens a lot, which shouldn't surprise me. I suppose there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of Jims across the country caught up in a bureaucratic nightmare like this.
[00:29:24] As Corbin put it to us. Jim's story sounds like a conspiracy theory or some lame as cover to explain away real abuse on his record. But it's not DCS keeps a list of accused abusers. Corbin said the list is super private. It typically only comes up when somebody's being considered as a foster parent or something like that. Theoretically, it's unlikely to impact Jim's life very much. It probably wouldn't have come up at all if it weren't for the fact that he was working in a school system.
[00:29:52] So Corbin said there are only really two options here. Option one is Jim can let it go unless he has a burning desire to foster or adopt a child or to work around kids. Corbin's opinion again is that this is unlikely to impact his life. If he's down to work in it for a bank or whatever, and he's fine with that. This could just be one of those things that linger in the background, but don't ever really hold him back in a big way.
[00:30:15] But this would mean that if something ever happened to any of his relatives and they left behind a child who needed to get placed with somebody, Jim's not going to be considered, which sucks, but probably and hopefully will never come up.
[00:30:26] Option two is Jim hires an attorney and sues DCS for injunctive relief. Injunctive relief is basically a type of lawsuit where you ask a judge to order another party to do a particular thing or not to do a particular thing. Now, Corbin said This is kind of a tricky thing to pull off because of child confidentiality laws. Only a judge can unseal those documents and take a look at them. Jim or even an attorney can't just call up DCS and negotiate his way off that list. DCS employees can't even pull this information unless they worked the case in the first place. And those employees aren't the ones who make decisions about who gets taken off that list.
[00:31:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. So a lawsuit sounds like the only way to right this wrong, although I have a bad feeling that Jim's going to have to prepare for a very, very long road ahead, which is so sad. What a headache. But look, I hear you that Jim is having a hard time finding an attorney who's affordable, and that's really tough.
[00:31:17] So you might want to encourage him to get creative and proactive here. Maybe if he tells his story to an attorney in a super compelling way, he can appeal to their sense of justice, maybe get them to work with him a little bit. Who knows? Maybe they lower their fee for him. Maybe they let him pay in installments. Whatever that looks like.
[00:31:35] You would be amazed what people are willing to do if your story is compelling and you just ask for help. If he still can't afford a good lawyer, I don't know, Jordan, I mean, I feel like at that point maybe he starts a GoFundMe and gets some help from family and friends, which now that I think about, it could be a good way to both get some financial support and also put his story out there publicly. You know, go on the record with the facts. "This is what happened. This is what my brother-in-law said. It is not true."
[00:31:59] Maybe that way he can control the narrative a little bit more, and people and prospective employers who come across it will know that he's not actually dangerous. I don't know, just an idea to kill two birds with one stone there, and even if he raises, you know, a third of the total cost of an attorney, I imagine that would still be a huge help.
[00:32:15] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's a nice idea. I mean, if he wants to go public with the whole thing, I like the storytelling aspect that could be therapeutic for him as well. I wish we had better news. To quote Corbin here, "This is a Kafkaesque dilemma that he's in. It's done to protect the kids. It's really causing problems here for Jim and people like him, and that's really unfortunate. It's not right."
[00:32:34] It does break my heart that this guy lost a good job because some maniac, a-h*le screwed him over, but I guess them's the brakes. Time to get creative and determined. Wishing Jim the best and hope the case goes his way.
[00:32:45] You can reach us firstname.lastname@example.org. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a lot easier. So if you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you're wrestling with PTSD after losing all your possessions in a house, fire. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up email@example.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.
[00:33:08] Okay, what's next?
[00:33:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, guys. Seven months ago I left a job that had become very toxic due to a merger. Luckily, I had some long-term friends slash colleagues working at a place that had an opening that aligned with my experience. Fast forward to now, though it's a terrible fit and I hate it. I am so miserable. I'm considering looking for a new role, but I feel a sense of obligation to stay here or else my personal relationships might be jeopardized. They posted the job and I went through the entire interview process, so it's not like they just saved me, but I still feel really bad about leaving, but I also need to do what's best for me. Help. What do I do? Signed, Peacing Out Without Damaging my Cloud.
[00:33:55] Jordan Harbinger: Good question. I appreciate that. You're being so thoughtful about this. The fact that you're concerned about how this might impact the people who got you here is pretty smart, and I'm sure that that's part of the reason you had this support system in place in advance. So kudos to you for that.
[00:34:07] All right. Look, if this is truly a terrible fit and you're miserable and this isn't a situation that can change by shifting your mindset or talking to your bosses or something like that, then you are well within your rights to look for a new role. If you'd only been there for two or three months, then I might say, "Hey man, you need to stick it out a little longer. Make sure it's really not growing pains, make sure it's really not a fit." But if you've been there for seven months, you probably have enough data to know whether this is the right place for you.
[00:34:35] You might consider sticking it out for a year just to avoid having a seven month stint on your resume. But honestly, that's usually only a liability if you have two or three of those short stints back to back. Because then it looks like you're the problem. And if you find another job, hopefully when you like and you want to stay at for a while, then it's very easy to tell the story of, 'Hey, I was at this place for seven months. I was recruited by this other place I was super excited to work at, so I made the jump. Not a huge deal."
[00:34:58] That said, I definitely think it's important to protect your relationships and do right by the people who helped you. You don't owe it to them to stick around in a miserable situation just because they helped you. But I also wouldn't quit and send your colleagues an email saying, "Hey, I got a new job. Peace," and like never talk to them. I would reach out to these people, especially the ones you consider friends. Take them to coffee. Tell them you're incredibly grateful for their support, that it meant a lot, that you were really excited to work at this place, but that it's just not working out the way you'd hoped. Or maybe that you want to do something different.
[00:35:29] I'll leave it to you to decide how much to tell them if they're fellow employees around your level. It might be okay to open up about why you're unhappy. They might feel it too. But if these friends are in management or they just love the company and they're super tight with all the higher ups, you did say they posted the job, so that makes me think they're a little bit influential there and or higher up. Then, I might keep it a little more vague. You don't need to give these folks the full story. You can just communicate the basic gist and be diplomatic. Otherwise, you might end up just venting or gossiping or telling them you're leaving prematurely.
[00:36:02] Either way, though, I probably wouldn't tell them until you're a hundred percent sure that you're quitting and or you have a firm offer in hand from another place. Whatever you do, be gracious. Be grateful. Put in the work to leave this job on a great note. Don't drop all your projects and let somebody else pick up your mess. That's how you look out for yourself and be gracious towards them. If you communicate this the right way, I have a feeling they'll understand, or at least they'll respect your decision.
[00:36:26] My only caveat is that if these difficult workplaces become a pattern, then I would try to figure out why you keep ending up in them. You did say your last company became toxic, so it sounds like that was outside your control. But then this office isn't great either, so that makes me wonder, you know, why aren't these places a good fit? What's going on here?
[00:36:44] Sometimes the pattern is just that we settle for questionable bosses or workplaces. Or that we interact with these workplaces in a certain way or that we don't have a strong enough set of boundaries to not let the usual workplace drama or be us get under our skin. Something doesn't have to be your fault for it to be something that you can control, and that's just another angle to consider as you make this decision. Good luck.
[00:37:06] You know what else is out of control, Gabriel? The recklessly good deals on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
[00:37:17] This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. In our family, holiday gifting is more about unwrapping the joy of experience and cherishing heartfelt moments rather than focusing on the traditional exchange of wrapped items. The kids get plenty of that crap throughout the year. During this festive season though, consider embracing a unique form of self-care therapy. BetterHelp offers a convenient way to start. It's like having access to a personal therapist without the need to venture outside your holiday retreat. With BetterHelp, you can embark on a journey of mental wellness right from the comfort of your home, possibly even in your matching festive pajamas. If you got that going on like we do. It's a chance to gain valuable insights and emotional support. All while avoiding the stress of long waiting times. So as you relax with a cup of high cocoa, why not explore what better help has to offer? Treat your mind to a holiday gift of wellbeing. BetterHelp operates entirely online, providing flexibility and convenience that aligns with your personal schedule. Just a simple questionnaire stands between you and being matched with a licensed professional therapist. And you always have the option to switch therapists at no extra charge.
[00:38:15] Jen Harbinger: In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan today to get 10 percent off your first month. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.
[00:38:25] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Wrkout. Wrkout was created by my good friend Curtis. I'm not going to say this is partially my idea, even though it was totally my idea. Wrkout is like the Airbnb of personal training with hundreds of world-class trainers available for in-person or virtual training. I've been using them for years now. I lost 40 pounds of flab. I'm looking better than I ever have in my entire life. You can search for a trainer based on location, specialty availability, training type for in-person or virtual. You can take a quick online quiz and then the Wrkout team will help match you with the perfect trainer. So I've been doing this, like I said, two years. I frigging have a six-pack just in time for Christmas, which I'm going to ruin with pie. This is one of the best decisions that I've ever made. Actually, Curtis kind of made me do it. I do it four times a week. Even my 81-year-old mother is hooked on Wrkout and does it twice a week now. I look forward to my sessions. Who the hell looks forward to workouts? This guy apparently never have I done that before in my life as well. My trainers, Chad and Kareem, who have the most personal trainer names ever have gotten to know me. They know how to push me. They know when I'm not feeling it. They know when to give me time off. I just frigging love Wrkout. So if you want to see what highly vetted world-class personal training can do for you virtually or in person. Check out workout.com/jordan to try it out. That's W-R-K-O-U-T.com/jordan. So it's workout without the first O. Tell them Jordan sent you. I guarantee this will change your life if you let it.
[00:39:49] If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. To learn more and get links to all the discounts you hear on the show, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also always search for a sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. You can also email me firstname.lastname@example.org. If you're super lazy, I will dig up the code for you. It's that important to use those codes. Thank you for supporting those who support us. It really keeps things going and makes it possible to continue creating these episodes week after week.
[00:40:21] Okay, back to Feedback Friday.
[00:40:25] What's next?
[00:40:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My wife was recently approached by a ghost writer wanting to ghost write a biographical book about her after seeing her deliver a keynote presentation at a major conference. The website has several testimonials and she's excited about the opportunity, but I am skeptical. It's not that I don't want her to write a book. I think she has a fantastic story between being a woman in tech sales and losing her mother to a 13-year battle with Alzheimer's. Our wedding actually made the news because of her mom and my wife has even been a featured speaker at Alzheimer's conferences and galas. The content is there. I'm just skeptical of the process. My wife would pay the ghost writer between $25,000 and $30,000, and in turn would get a book and marketing services and keep 100 percent of the royalties on the sales. But I worry that this guy's going to get 30K from us, and we'll just end up with a garage full of unsold books. I'm sure dozens of ghost writers have approached you. Is this legit? Is this something you would recommend? Signed, Protecting My Bride From Being Taken for a Ride By Some Dodgy Guy Who Might or Might Not Be on Her Side.
[00:41:38] Jordan Harbinger: Great question. First of all, your wife sounds like a badass. It definitely sounds like she has a great story to tell. I hope she finds a way to share it with as many people as possible. But I share your skepticism completely. I've interacted with my fair share of these ghost writers, both legit and otherwise. So here's my brutally honest take.
[00:41:55] This is a business for the ghost writer. Obviously he gets paid no matter what, and that's key. So remember that the reason he thinks there's a great book in everyone he approaches is that he doesn't actually care if there's a real book in anyone he approaches. Not that your wife doesn't have a great story. Sounds like she does. That's not even relevant to this guy because it doesn't matter to him if the book sells. All that matters is that he collects his fee. Think of it this way, if this guy thought the book would make more than 30K in royalties, he would be negotiating a share of those royalties, but he's not. This play for him is about collecting a risk-free upfront fee, and then moving on.
[00:42:35] That's fine for some people. That's a business model, and I understand there are people out there who are willing to drop 30K to have a book and they don't really care if it sells well. They just want to have a product to point to and share with people and pass down to their grandchildren or their employees or whatever. And so the arrangement works.
[00:42:51] But if you are a real aspiring author who wants to move real copies and use the book to create valuable opportunities, which it sounds like your wife wants to do, then I don't think this is the right route for her. Because so much of publishing is about marketing and these marketing services he's talking about it's probably meaningless. If this ghost writer could market books really well, he would do that, and then he would want to keep a share of the royalties from those efforts. Like I said earlier, keep in mind legit OG publishers, they choose books they think they can sell. Then they offer advances to the author to write the book. The publisher then markets the book in concert with the author.
[00:43:28] This guy is choosing books based on, I don't know who can pay $30,000 for him to write it. Once he's done writing the book — actually, scratch that. Once he has your money, what leverage do you have? Takes too long to deliver the product? Tough rocks. Don't like the book when it's done? Tough rocks. Book doesn't sell? Well, wait for it, tough rocks. He's got your money and yeah, you probably have a garage full of books.
[00:43:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, the technical work of writing and the more businessy work of marketing are so different. It's kind of hard for me to imagine that the same person can do both of those things really well.
[00:44:02] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, for sure. Marketing a book. It's hard. Trust me, I get a lot of pitches from authors, both random people who self-publish and proper PR people who work with big publishing houses, and it's really difficult to position a book and get a decent media person's attention and book the interview and make sure the interview converts into book sales.
[00:44:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.
[00:44:20] Jordan Harbinger: And it takes a lot more than that too, right? It takes building a following online, running a newsletter, communicating with readers. I mean, this marketing thing, this is a ton of work.
[00:44:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:28] Jordan Harbinger: If it were easy to market a book. Everyone would just self-publish their work, and publishers wouldn't have thousands of employees, many of whom are dedicated to marketing and sales.
[00:44:37] My bet is that this guy's marketing services are just a bunch of websites, blog posts, eBooks, tutorials, stuff like that, Zoom calls that are recorded, right? Basically a bunch of websites about how your wife can market her own book based on information from 2009. And sadly, they're probably not going to do anything for her.
[00:44:54] So my take is stay away from folks like this if your wife wants to write a good book and make a real impact with that book. At best, this ghost writer is a contractor with a narrow interest in your wife's story. At worst, he's a borderline scam artist. If your wife wants to be an author, I'd encourage her to really develop her story, work on her writing, start building her own marketing machine, which by the way, yes, it can take years and is worth the investment. Then, self-published successfully or pitch a publisher.
[00:45:23] If her story is that meaningful, and it sounds like it is, she and her future readers deserve a real book written by her and/or a ghost writer who is legit and genuinely dedicated to producing something amazing. Good luck.
[00:45:38] All right. What's next?
[00:45:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I have three boys. The middle one is a preteen and the oldest is a teenager. They both have had girlfriends for the past few years. The boy's mom and my girlfriend told me that I need to have the talk with them, and I agree.
[00:45:55] Jordan Harbinger: Yep. This is when it should happen. Probably sooner for the teenager, but better late than never.
[00:45:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: But I don't know how to go about it. I'm a first generation Latino male and my dad never had the talk with me.
[00:46:07] Jordan Harbinger: All the more reason to have the talk with your kids. This stuff shouldn't be shameful or off limits. You want open communication around this for sure.
[00:46:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: The boy's mom wants them to practice abstinence. I think it's important to be safe. My plan was to talk to them, provide them with protection, and tell them to always use it.
[00:46:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yep. Solid plan.
[00:46:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: And to call me if they ever don't use it so I can go and get them plan B.
[00:46:31] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh. Less solid plan. Plan B, my least favorite plan. Well, your intentions are good, but let's come back to that.
[00:46:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: My girlfriend is saying that it would be inappropriate for me as a parent to provide plan B for an underage boy to give to an underage girl in the event of an accident. Is it inappropriate? Is it immoral? Is it illegal? How do I have this conversation? Signed, A Pop Hoping to Stop a Disaster From Cropping Up.
[00:46:59] Jordan Harbinger: I'm really glad you're eager to have this talk with your children. It's absolutely the right decision. So the first thing we need to talk about is what your message is going to be. You want them to be safe when they start having sex. I completely agree. Your ex wants them to practice abstinence. Obviously, these are two very different philosophies, two very different messages to receive.
[00:47:20] So my first piece of advice is I would get on the same page with your boy's mom about what you're presenting to them. So they're not getting contradictory opinions from their parents and becoming confused or conflicted. Now, there's a world where you and your ex-wife have radically different opinions about how to raise your kids in this department. And if that's the case, then I think the stance you need to take is, "Mom feels this way. I feel a different way. So we're going to present you with our opinions and you get to decide, but here's why I think I'm right. And if you decide to have sex, this is the only responsible way to do it."
[00:47:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.
[00:47:51] Jordan Harbinger: And just to be clear about something, I'm not saying that abstinence isn't an option if that's your kids ultimately want to do, they're going to be adults soon, the teenager anyway. Where the abstinence philosophy gets dicey, in my opinion, is when young people feel ready to have sex, but they're getting a message that their sexuality is shameful or dangerous, then I think the whole "never have sex" thing can become weird. It can become repressive.
[00:48:15] Besides, we've all seen how well the abstinence movement has done for a lot of people. It's been a total failure in many ways based on the data that I've read. The research shows that educating kids about this is better than simply telling them not to do it at all.
[00:48:30] Now, about your plan, definitely talk to them, answer any and all questions they have, and try to approach this conversation with as much openness and non-judgment as you can. It's okay if it's a little awkward. You can even kick things off by acknowledging that like, "Hey, I know this is kind of weird to talk about with your dad and maybe there are certain things you don't want to talk about, but no one ever had this conversation with me. I wish they had, so I'm happy to talk to you about this."
[00:48:56] I like your idea of providing them with protection. I think especially with young men, if they're too embarrassed to buy a pack of Trojans from a 7-Eleven or whatever, that can be helpful, although I would help them get over that embarrassment because you want them to feel comfortable buying condoms for themselves. The message there is protection is a non-negotiable. Never engage in anything without these. This is your responsibility. So here you go.
[00:49:20] The plan B of it all. Oh man, I'm not too sure about that. I like your instinct to tell them that if they ever get into trouble, they can come to you. That's a really positive message, but I don't think offering to buy them plan B is the right move or even necessary. Because first of all, my understanding is that there are no age restrictions on plan B. So teenagers can buy it on their own from any pharmacy over the counter.
[00:49:42] But more importantly, I wouldn't put that on the table as an option, like, "Use condoms. But hey, if you ever don't have any or you don't feel like it, just call up your old man and he'll buy you some emergency contraceptives." N-O, bro. No. The message in my opinion, should be, "You always use protection condoms at a minimum," and if there happens to be an accident, like the condom breaks and you have this backup option, but the goal is to not have to use plan B.
[00:50:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:07] Jordan Harbinger: This is in case of emergencies, emergencies. If you're responsible, you'll probably never need it. So let's make a pact that you'll be mature and disciplined about this.
[00:50:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: That is absolutely correct. But if something ever did happen, he's asking a really interesting question. Is it appropriate to buy your child's partner plan B? I've never thought about that.
[00:50:25] Jordan Harbinger: Well, like I said, he probably wouldn't have to. They can do it themselves.
[00:50:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:29] Jordan Harbinger: And I don't know if it's immoral. That's for him to decide. My feeling is probably no, unless of course the girl doesn't want to take it. That's a different situation. I'm much more practical about this. This is about preventing an unwanted pregnancy. That's where my moral concern is. Although I can already hear the angry emails I'm going to receive about that, but whether it's illegal, that's an interesting question too.
[00:50:51] We actually ran that by our boy, Corbin Payne, quickly, and he said, well, it depends on the state, of course. Based on his understanding, birth control is usually considered healthcare. So his advice is to look at the healthcare laws in your state and see what, if anything, it has to say about making healthcare decisions for a minor who is not your child. In general, the more conservative the state, the bigger deal this would be.
[00:51:13] Again, I'm not sure why you would need to be directly involved. Any minor can buy plan B and they can make this decision alone or with their partner without ever involving a parent.
[00:51:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: My only other thought here is I would make a real effort to approach your kids in a spirit of openness and clarity and positivity. Because teaching them about the birds and the bees, that is obviously very important. But while you do that, while you explain to them condoms and birth control and sexual health and all of that. You're also going to be communicating a lot to your children about sexuality in general. You know what it means and how to behave and what place it holds in their life.
[00:51:50] So I would also take a moment to think about how you want them to embark on this new aspect of their lives. You know, what values do you want to instill in them? What messages do you want to pass on or not pass on? What mindsets do you want them to have when they engage with other people? Wrap it up every time so you don't end up at a CVS at two in the morning pointing at the plan B awkwardly in the locked cabinet.
[00:52:10] You know, that's good advice, but in my opinion, it's just as important and maybe more important to teach them that when they do feel ready to have sex, they should be respectful to their partners. They should be thoughtful people. They should be kind, you know, they should know that communication is everything. They should listen. They should be attuned to their partners. They should understand what consent is and how it works, all of that.
[00:52:32] So make some space for that conversation too. The basic facts your kids can get from a lot of places, and the truth is they probably know a lot of it already. But their attitudes towards sex and how they feel about this part of life and how they conduct themselves with other people, that is just so important. And I think that could be another really big gift that you give them in this conversation.
[00:52:52] Jordan Harbinger: Good point. Gabe. There are a few sub conversations in this sex conversation, and they're all important, but this is the one where he might make the most impact.
[00:53:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:00] Jordan Harbinger: And because no one had this conversation with him, it might be a conversation he needs to prepare for a little more. I love that you want to talk to your kids about this, and I'm glad they have a dad they can come to when they need guidance. Good luck.
[00:53:12] Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much.
[00:53:17] Don't forget to check out the episodes out of the loop with the Houthis in Yemen and Ben Macintyre on escaping from a Nazi prison castle. Again, nothing says the holidays quite like Nazi prison castles. And I hope y'all have a happy holiday, although we'll be back next week with a couple new episodes, so don't forget about those as well.
[00:53:34] The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people that I know, like, and trust, and I'm teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself in our Six-Minute Networking course. It's a hundred percent free. It's not gross, it's not schmoozey. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'd say makes a great gift, but it makes a terrible gift. Nobody wants you to give this to them, uh, but you should do it for yourself. The drills take a few minutes a day, dig the well before you're thirsty. Build relationships before you need them again at jordanharbinger.com/course.
[00:54:03] If you haven't signed up yet, our newsletter, Wee Bit Wiser, every Wednesday, a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you, deliver to your inbox once a week. If you want to keep up with the wisdom from our 900-plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com/news. Man, a lot of positive feedback on the newsletter from show fans and people who don't even listen to the show and just read the emails. So definitely check it out. Let me know what you think.
[00:54:26] Show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts, of course, are in the show notes. Advertisers discounts, and ways to support the show all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi or on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.
[00:54:43] This show is created an association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Corbin Payne. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.
[00:55:14] You are about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show about why people believe and want to believe conspiracy theories.
[00:55:21] Mick West: Pretty much anybody can fall for these theories. Pretty much anybody can start watching a YouTube video. And because a lot of these YouTube videos are very, very compelling, then they get sucked into it and they start believing one thing and then they start believing another thing. It becomes very understandable that they would believe these things. It's just regular people who have just kind of got sucked down a rabbit hole.
[00:55:44] It may seem ridiculous to everybody else. But from their perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're doing it because they think they're on the side of good. So that's one of the reasons why I debunk. I want people to focus on real issues and not on the fake issues. When people start to make significant life decisions based on their conspiracy theories is where it becomes a problem.
[00:56:04] Getting out of the rabbit hole isn't just like casting away all these false beliefs. It's kind of climbing up into a world that's composed of all these new real beliefs into the light, the actual real things that are going on, and you can see more clearly what's going on in these other areas because you've got the light of reality helping you there.
[00:56:23] There's harm done to the world, I think. If a significant number of people are making decisions based on things that are entirely false, things that are anti-science. My whole reason for doing this is based around increasing the amount of truth in the world, increasing the amount of facts and science in the world, that if things are left unchecked and if conspiracy theories continue to rise, there is this growing division within the country. Uh, so that could be a dangerous thing.
[00:56:52] Jordan Harbinger: To learn how to help our friends and family escape the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, check out episode 363 with Mick West on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
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