Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Jason DeFillippo (@jpdef) banter every week and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday!
If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org. Now, let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- Getting caught up? Make sure to check out our episodes from this week with Adam Carolla and Alex Kouts!
- You always take steps to improve your life with the best of intentions, but soon regress to old, bad habits. How can you break this pattern?
- Now that you’re a free agent after enduring a difficult and draining marriage, are you wasting mental energy better spent on your career by trying to get into another relationship?
- When you’ve been raised on the “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say it at all” philosophy, how do you get along with your in-laws who only seem to know how to complain about everything?
- How does an introvert get better at bantering with others and building social value?
- Is there a way to get your mean grandparents to treat your awesome mom more kindly without making it seem like you’re acting on her directive?
- Resource recommendations for people who want to develop sales skills (which are applicable to so much more than sales, by the way).
- What is the best purpose for having your own website without looking like you’re trying to find new opportunities?
- Advice for aspiring podcast hosts new to the job.
- Quick shoutouts to Loretta “The Aussie Pilgrim” Kreet and the kind fellow who sent Jordan and Jen the Best of the Bone bone broth!
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Jason on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks.
- Have Alexa and want flash briefings from The Jordan Harbinger Show? Go to jordanharbinger.com/alexa and enable the skill you’ll find there!
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!
Resources from This Episode:
- TJHS 69: Adam Carolla | Why You Should Stop Trading Time for Money
- TJHS 70: Alex Kouts | The Secrets You Don’t Know About Negotiation Part One
- Psychology Today’s Find a Therapist Search
- 5 Ways to (Subtly) Change the Topic of Conversation by Michelle Crouch, Real Simple
- How Do I Find a Local Improv Comedy Class?, Quora
- (How to) Remember Everyone’s Name by Jim Kwik, Kwik Brain
- “Did You See That Ludicrous Display Last Night?”, The IT Crowd
- To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth about Moving Others by Daniel H. Pink
- The Brutal Truth About Sales & Selling Podcast
- Dale Carnegie Course Finder
- VolunteerMatch Search
- Best of the Bone Organic Italian Herbs Beef Bone Broth
Transcript for How to Be an Introvert in an Extrovert’s World - Feedback Friday (Episode 71)
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. I'm here with producer, Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger Show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests, and this week we had Adam Carolla. Adam talked about, well coming up in comedy, some of the lessons you learned along the way, taking advantage of opportunity. There was a lot about staying relevant and compartmentalizing our knowledge and stay -- just really interesting guy. Obviously, a great storyteller, so be on the lookout for that, and we had Alex Kouts come back and just start an amazing masterclass on negotiation that is going to be three parts long. And it is next level negotiation stuff that you have not heard anywhere else for the most part, even if you've, yes, you've read all the books. He has innovated in this space as well. He's been teaching it for years and years, and has been doing it at very high levels as well. So it'd be on the lookout for the Alex Kouts episode as well, starting that masterclass on negotiation. Really, really solid deep dive from us here at The Jordan Harbinger Show.
[00:01:02] Of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guests wisdom and knowledge and experiences along with our knowledge, wisdom, and experiences to you. In other words, the real purpose of this show is to have those conversations directly with you wherever possible. And that's what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us firstname.lastname@example.org. try to keep them as short as you can while giving us enough to work with. That makes things a lot easier for us. Once things are like three paragraphs long, I just kind of have to skip it. It's too hard. It's too much.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:32] Your chances of getting on the show are much better if it's a short question.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:35] If there's anything below the fold that's not your email signature. We got problems. How's that? So, and we're old, so make sure you're not using eight point font single-spaced cause that just intimidates us, right? We get scared. All right.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:49] Some of us are blind in our old age.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:51] That's right. All right, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:53] Hi, Jordan and Jason. I'm a 28 year old working professional who doesn't have very much relationship experience. I've had two serious partners. The first was long distance while I was young and decided it was in my best interest to work on myself as opposed to nurturing a long distance relationship. The second lasted three years where I felt like I was the only one working on the relationship. It finally ended in her moving away to be with an old high school crush that reconnected with her, which left me dealing with my own emotions. It's been eight years since that breakup and I found it tough to approach women romantically. I seem to be able to create strong friendships with women I encounter, and I don't find myself attracted to them until they're romantically involved with someone else. Since the breakup, I've been involved in a rebound relationship in a devil's three-way, both of which I got emotionally connected and hurting the process. While I was completely unaware of what the outcome was going to be, I still put myself in a position to get hurt.
[00:02:45] Why am I attracted to self-destructive habits? While I tried to put myself out there, I find I get discouraged easily and I'm afraid of coming off as desperate or creepy. Historically, I tend to move from subject to subject, whether it be work, school interests, until I get bored of them and begin to self-destructive behaviors again. Cleaning the house will become a daily activity for me, where I wash my dishes regularly, throw things out, clean the washroom, make my bed, et cetera, but after a while I'll start leaving the cups out, wrappers on the table, clothes wherever I decided to take them off. I live alone so the mess doesn't bother me, but then I'll decide to be in the cleanup mode and just do it all in one day.
[00:03:21] I start waking up at six every day and go for a run, but again, it lasts for a few months. Then I fall into the snooze habits, setting the alarm at 6, and snoozing until 7. How can I break this habit of inconsistency in my life? I get fed up with it, decided to change, then get fed up with the change and decided to go back. Ultimately, I want to find a significant other, but how can I justify bringing someone into a life that I can't even keep consistent for myself? Thanks for taking the time to read this, Consistently Inconsistent.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:47] So this is a brilliantly insightful little piece of self-awareness. How can I justify getting a significant other when I can't even keep things consistent for myself? You do absolutely need to get your ducks in a row before you can bring in and keep someone of quality into your world. So here's the problem. A lot of people, and I've seen this with guys back when I was doing like dating coaching stuff a million years ago. We, as men often think -- as people, as humans, often think once I get a girlfriend things will change because I'll be happier, which means I'll be more motivated to get in shape, which means I'll be more motivated in my job, which means I'll clean the house because I'll have this girl. It's just not true. Okay, the people you get in your life, when you're a mess, there are people who are looking for a mess consciously or unconsciously.
[00:04:33] You don't want that, because then you have to stay a mess to keep them. How do you think that's going to work out for both of you? But of course, they're not really happy with the mess, it's just where they're comfortable. So then you're fighting all the time because you're a mess. But any efforts to become less so are going to make that person feel insecure and caused fights. Oops! Huge problem. So you're just not going to get great high quality people to stay with you if your own world is in disarray, so you have to get yourself together. It starts with baby steps. Habit change is one element we cover often on this show, so I'm not going to dive too deeply into that, but you're not really stuck there. I don't think you're really stuck there. Where you're stuck is the self-sabotaging behavior.
[00:05:12] At some level you don't believe you're worthy of living in a clean place. You don't believe you're worthy of taking care of yourself and being in shape. This might stem from that breakup that put you through the ringer, but it might also have roots earlier on that possibly even contributed to that breakup, and honestly it probably does. What I would do if I were you is start looking for those roots of this issue, the self-worth thing with a therapist. I really think you've got some issues here that you need to uncover with a professional. The good news here though is you already see the pattern, and we have a good idea of where the self-sabotage stems from. So what we need to do now is find the root cause and address that emotional damage, and the best -- and frankly the only way to do this is with a qualified therapist.
[00:06:01] Don't skimp on this. This is your life we're talking about here. There's no shame in going into the emotional barbershop for a trim up every now and again if you catch my drift. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by what you find in discussions with a good therapist, especially as you seem self-aware enough to point them in the right direction instead of spending three months on the couch stabbing in the dark. “Well, you know this is going on. That's going on.” I think if you say, “I'm not able to get my stuff together, but I think I need a significant other, but I think the root cause is probably this breakup and it seems like maybe there's a self-worth issue because I can't get motivated to take care of myself.” That's going to give them a lot to work with, and that their purpose is going to love you because they're going to go, “Oh, thank God. Somebody who's finally acknowledging, aware of and acknowledging the issue that we were going to have to eventually address.”
[00:06:46] I mean you just saved them three or four months of time. So in the end you got this, I wasn't much at age 28 like yourself, you know, it was through things like introspection, therapy, coaching, work experience that I came through the other side, just like I'm confident that you will as well. Just don't skimp on the therapist. Just get that handled. It's not worth trying to figure it out on your own. You're not going to be able to do it as well, and the one thing you can't get back is time. So the best and quickest way to do this is to find somebody who's done it before with other patients and clients. All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:18] Good day from Australia. I listened to your show before I sleep. Drive to work and at the gym as well. The content you deliver with critical questions in your interviews keeps me constantly engaged and I'm definitely addicted to listening to your podcast. Keep up the fantastic work Jordan and Jason as I look forward to listening to more fantastic interviews. I'm 23 years old living in the hustling city of Melbourne, who has been trying to discover a career to commit to. I worked many jobs from hairdressing with my mum, cabinet making with my dad, bartending, waitering, real estate salesman, charity person, karate instructor, et cetera. Now at this point in time, I'm working as a bell attendant in one of Melbourne's most reputable hotels and entertainment complexes. I married when I was 22, a girl I met here in Melbourne, and wanted to sponsor her citizenship, but things took a turn after two years, and now I'm single.
[00:08:05] I realized she was a psychopath, and I couldn't leave her earlier because she wouldn't let me by saying she would commit suicide. After two years had passed in our relationship, she finally had the courage to move on and we split paths. Now it's been eight months passed and I'm having trouble with getting out there dating. Every day I think about women and getting into a relationship or just one night of fun. I feel like I'm wasting my mental energy on such things. And should I really put my mental energy into these thoughts with finding myself a nice girl? Should I rather put this mental energy into my career? Totally confused and a little frustrated with where I'm putting my mental energy. Kind regards, Mental Roadmap Required.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:42] All right, well first of all, thanks so much for being a fan of the show and for the kind words, man. I totally get why one, you were hurt by the breakup, especially since the relationship sounds so awful and controlling. And two, why you might be having trouble getting back out there again. But here's the thing, you're not wasting your mental energy thinking about women, or going out and being social. You're 23, man! And you are married. So of course, you've got to get some things out of your system. You have growing to do. I know it seems a little remedial, after all, you've been married, so dating seems like this big step backwards, but it really isn't, especially not at your age. This is for you. It's an evolution. And the sooner you see yourself as evolving instead of trying to make up for lost time, the better off you're going to be.
[00:09:32] And when we first started the Jordan Harbinger Show from scratch, we initially felt like we needed to get back to the same size we were overnight, or we're just going backwards and look at all these things that we have to start over again. Now I, -- Jason, I think you're probably on the same page as me here. I look at the whole process as an evolution, and I think you can hear and see the difference in the shows we do now versus the shows we did in the past. This is really good for you. Even if it seems like a waste of time, or you feel guilty thinking about it, put the mental energy into your career, but don't use your career as an excuse to be antisocial. You need to keep growing in all of those areas, and when you do, you'll find that the dating issues start to solve themselves as you develop yourself both socially and in other aspects of your life, as long as you strike a balance, so don't be too hard on yourself, man. You're 23, you're ahead of your time. You've got a bunch of experience under your belt, good or bad. Don't be in such a rush to get to the destination. Just keep evolving and you'll get where you need to be when you need to be there.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:33] You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show, and this is Feedback Friday! Stick around and we'll get right back to the show after these important messages.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:40] This episode is sponsored in part by HostGator. You have to have your own home on the web. It really is that simple with the shifting landscape of social media, you don't want to have your first results on search engines be for social media if you can avoid it. You really just don't, because who knows what's going to happen. “Oh! Disable your ad blocker, if you want to see this person's profile.” “Oh! Want to see their full profile by this expanded thing, or you have to log in.” “Oh! you don't have an account here. Sorry, we're going to lock you.” I mean that's inevitable and already happens on a lot of websites, and that's why we recommend HostGator's website builder.
[00:11:13] You can easily create a professional looking website and there's no coding, there's no weird little errors that happen that make your site look like crap that you can't fix. It's mobile friendly. Your site's going to look good on tablets, phones, desktops, and you can throw a PayPal button in there. People can buy things from you, donate to you, whatever you got going. If it's a hobby site, there's search engine optimization stuff in there that you don't have to figure out, you don't have to hire a pro to do. And your site's guaranteed to be up. 99.9 percent of the time, help is available 247, 365, and they're giving us up to 62 percent off all the packages for new users. Jason, where can they get that?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:51] They got to go to hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. Yes, that's right! Hostgator.com/Jordan, and get that 62 percent off.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:59] This episode is sponsored in part by DesignCrowd. Crowdsourcing is how busy people get stuff done in the 21st century. Thanks to DesignCrowd, you can focus on running your business while you hand over the reins for your company's logo, the web design, the t-shirt, you name it. To a pool of over 600,000 pro designers from around the world. DesignCrowd done crowdsources custom work based on your specs and you pick the design you like best and you pay that designer. It's that simple.
[00:12:23] So here are the details. Visit designcrowd.com/jordan, you post a brief describing what you want from the art you need. DesignCrowd invites over 600,000 designers to respond. Within a few hours, you get your first designs over the course of three to 10 days. You might get around a hundred. I think, Jason, we got like 700 or 600 designs from designers all over the world. Yeah, it was nuts. We were told that our response rate was abnormally high. But still you're going to get 60 to a hundred designs. If you engage regular designers, you're going to get like three, you know? If you're lucky. You pick the design you like best, you approve payment to that designer and then they go to work on the final. And if you don't like anything, they offer a money back guarantee. So Jason, let them know how I can get that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:06] Checkout designcrowd.com/jordan. That's D-E-S-I-G-N-C-R-O-W-D.com/jordan for a special 100 dollars VIP offer for our listeners, or simply enter the discount code Jordan when posting a project on DesignCrowd.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:20] Do they have to yell the code like you did? Jordan!
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:22] Exactly! Jordan!
Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:24] They have to scream it into their computer.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:26] See that's how you get, that's how you get that six to 700 response rate. Jordan!
Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:30] The louder, the louder you say, Jordan, when you sign up for DesignCrowd, the more designs you get back. I'm pretty sure that's how the system works.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:37] Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:38] That’s right.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:38] Thank you for listening and supporting the Jordan Harbinger Show. To learn more about our sponsors, visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers, and don't forget to check out our Alexa Skill. Go to jordanharbinger.com/alexa, or search for Jordan Harbinger in the Alexa App. Now, let's get back to your questions here on Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:57] All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:59] Hey, Jordan and team. I have a little problem with my in-laws. I've been married to my wife for over a year, lived with her for over five years, and dated for over eight years. The only thing that I have in common with her family is our love for the Green Bay Packers and the lack of common interest is starting to irritate my wife. They love gulf, cooking shows, and watching other garbage reality TV that raises my blood pressure. I usually work 50 to 60 hours a week and love my job. When I'm not at work, I always have a side project like a car, motorcycle, or something in my garage. My wife works in the garage with me after work on her own stuff or learning and seems to enjoy it in our time together. When her family is around, she reverts back and watches TV with them all day.
[00:14:39] I get it. They live out of town and don't get to see them all that often, but I can't sit still. I've gotten better the older I've become, but it's still a problem. I can do it for a day, but not three straight days when we visited them. I've seen every museum or tourist attraction in their town. They have all relatively new things because they would rather update than maintain. The best trip was when it was snowing and they couldn't get their blower running, so I spent an hour fixing it than blowing their driveway. Now that says something, if somebody wants to like snow blows somebody's driveway. You've been in Michigan, you know what it’s like.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:10] Yeah, I don't really know why anybody would want to do that, but “Hey, go whatever you need to do.”
Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:14] Sets the stage, I think. What really gets me is the negativity. Nothing is good enough for them. For example, when we go to a restaurant and they order something, after they're done eating, they will say, “It was terrible. We shouldn't have gone here. It's been downhill for years.” “My steak was too well done, or not done enough, et cetera.” It drives me nuts. I've had plenty of meals I didn't care for. It doesn't mean the meal was bad. I just didn't care for it and I won't eat it again or go there again, but it does no good talking about it hours after we leave. We've been at busy restaurants, and it's taken over an hour for our food. Her family has asked for a check for our drinks and paid for them and left without the food or paying for it, just to go somewhere to get quote unquote “better service.”
[00:15:54] I've worked in restaurants and I understand they can get busy and short-staffed, and it blew my mind normal people would do that. My wife has now started telling me to let it go and quit poking the bear. She especially hates when I do this, when her brother is the one complaining and it's because it's usually him, because he gets angry very fast and says stuff like, “You just don't know good food or good service.” I've never heard my wife join in on the complaining, but she would rather just live with it. As the night goes on and complaining continues and it always does, I just shut down and don't say much, then get accused of being antisocial. I don't know if this is because I come from a lower middle class blue collar family and they are upper middle class white collar.
[00:16:31] I was always taught, if you can't say something nice, don't say it at all. I've tried taking up their interest in golf by learning the players, the sport, and even playing a little bit, and trying to watch cooking shows on my own, but I usually end up falling asleep. I love my wife and will do anything for her, but I really have no idea what to do and I can see this becoming a bigger problem. Thanks for the help. Signed, Trying Not To Hate The In-laws.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:54] Wow!
Jason DeFillippo: [00:16:54] Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:55] Yikes, man! I don't envy you at all. I love my in-laws. They're awesome. But I, you know, it's funny how the upper class folk think blue collar people are the ones that complain all the time and blah, blah, blah, and it's really, it's the opposite.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:11] Totally the opposite. Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:12] For these people, you just can't buy class. And unfortunately, negativity bias which is a lot of what we're seeing here, and just negative attitude in general. It's really class independent, you know, it happens to everybody no matter what their social status. I am seeing in your words here that your wife is playing out her family issues with you at home. So she probably grew up placating her older brother who is a crab apple and her parents, and playing peacemaker in the house all the time. I do think you should talk to her about it. I know you've already probably tried that, but it's not fair for her to call you antisocial just because you don't want to complain. It depends how you're shutting down. I don't know what's going on there, so it depends how you're shutting down.
[00:17:53] She just wants everyone to get along and she probably always has, but in my opinion, it doesn't mean you have to drive yourself insane doing it. In the end, it depends on how often you see your in-laws. You might find that it's better to just ignore their negativity while trying to shift the topics to things they actually like. Think of it as a game, trying to steer every negative conversation into something more positive gradually and skillfully, sort of to distract them, kind of like dealing with kids. “Oh! The kid's crying because the balloon popped.” “Oh look! A dinosaur. I have a dinosaur in the glove compartment.” Right? That kind of thing.
[00:18:27] These people sound unhappy, but I think they've probably spent the past few decades relating to one another by complaining. I get that, right? If you've got certain friends and your MO with them is to just complain about stuff, you'll do that. The problem is if you're around that all the time, it's all you can do. And Jen actually pointed out this pattern when I got together with my parents, she'd be like, why do you guys just complain about everything? You don't have to do that. You could talk about other things and I realized, “Oh! I'm usually pretty positive,” but for some reason when I go home what we do is like I complain to my dad, and my dad complains about stuff to me, and that's like how we relate. It's dumb but it's a habit. My family kind of did that too.
[00:19:06] What I found is that if we stay positive or my wife Jen forces me to stay positive, then my family just kind of follows suit. And this might be a game of frame control and whoever has the strongest frame wins. So the more you do this, the better you get at that skill, which will come in plenty handy later down the line as well. But I think one, talk to your wife, let her know what's going on. She probably already knows. I see her dilemma. And two, try to redirect the conversation. And look, if that doesn't work and you only see your in-laws three times a year, just let them complain and then your antisocial, the end. Oh well, right? I just feel bad for your wife because she's the one who's trying to make everybody happy but it's actually impossible, because her family doesn't want to be happy, they want to complain. So that's the dilemma, and go Packers! All right, what's next?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:56] Hello, Jordan and Jason and Jen. I'm a 31 year old architect and struggle with social interaction. I find small talk difficult and can barely get through the whole, “Hey, how are you stuff?” I'm a no BS straight to the matter kind of guy and an introspective person who values having time alone to think and work. I often get anxiety when I'm in social situations and know that my anxiety can be felt by those I'm conversing with. I wish I could just relax and shoot the breeze. What are some tips for bantering with others? I wish I had witty, interesting things to say. Additionally, a large portion of people that I know and work with are obsessed with college football and sports. I simply cannot garner enough shits about any given sport to even want to talk about it, or even worse spend time watching it.
[00:20:37] People often attempt to strike up conversations with the assumption that I watched the big game last night, or how I feel about fill in the blanks performance. I come across as a downer when I declined my interest in sports and lose social value due to my disinterest. I frequently encounter that dreaded awkward silence, though I always think of the perfect thing that I could've said hours later. I struggle with being articulate when talking on the fly and much prefer to converse via email where I can preplan and edit every word. To further conversation issues, I struggled to find interest in what others are talking about, and regularly discover that my mind has quickly delved into deep thought and even the shortest interactions. My girlfriend correctly calls me out on this constantly, and I'm sure others noticed as well. Paired with that, I typically forget people's names upon introduction. How do I become interested in people and their conversations? How do I tastefully add to a conversation to keep it going and build social value? I know that I'm exhibiting self-centered behavior and feel guilty about it, especially when others notice that I'm not interested in what they're saying. Best regards, Without Words.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:37] So Without Words, from the sound of it, you're a classic introvert, which I get, right? The positive qualities of an introvert though outweigh the negative, if you can even say they're negative. We've talked about this before on the show. New science shows that introverts are actually in a way better at relationships, maybe not extroverted social situations, but relationships and relationship management because we think before we talk, we take other people's needs and feelings into consideration. We have deeper relationships because we have deeper conversations. There's a whole list here. It doesn't mean though that you can't learn some extrovert qualities or build extrovert skills. You don't have some sort of medical excuse for not being social because you're an introvert. I say this all the time, but you really can learn different skills, it's only a matter of that. It doesn't mean that you're going to feel like becoming an extrovert for the rest of your life most likely, because being introverted or extroverted, it has to do with how we relax. Do we relax at a party or do we relax with a book? That's sort of the main over-simplified difference here.
[00:22:41] Learning extrovert skills though is a must for any introvert. Just like learning introvert skills is a must for any extrovert. So what I would say for you, if you want to learn to attack the banter problem, take an improv class. This helps with banter, it helps with thinking on your feet. It's a really great for introverts because it's really uncomfortable and it really gets people out of their shell. It gets you thinking quickly. Otherwise, I don't think you should try to change your personality type. Remember, you're learning skills here, you're not trying to change who you are. You should, however, pay attention to people's names. There are some basics for this, like using it early in a conversation or mapping their name to an object or concept in your head. They're a little cheesy, but those work quite well. And you can Google stuff like that. I don't want to go over 10 cheesy ways to remember names here.
[00:23:26] But I'm not convinced that you're actually uninterested in people's conversations in general. I think you just don't give a crap about sports, but you're surrounded by it. I think that's normal. I'm the same way. I don't care about that stuff, but if you're in a culture where it's like, “Oh, did you see Manning the other day?” “No.” “Oh crap! I'm out of ideas on how to make small talk with Jim. Guess I just won't.” Right? And then Jim feels dumb and I feel dumb and so we avoid each other, right? That's kind of the phenomenon you're dealing with, because that was like my one, “Everybody saw that yesterday,” “Everybody da, da.” So when you're trying to get interested in people and subjects, the key isn't to think of something witty to say, to chime in and add value that way. The key is asking questions to keep them talking and steer the conversation to something that you are interested in, or that you both find more interesting.
[00:24:15] So no matter how fun or witty you are, people mostly enjoy talking about whatever they want to discuss anyway. So the pressure is off of you to be some kind of performer, but the pressure is on for you to ask questions that keep people talking. And the simplest way to do that is to become interested at least on a surface level about what they're talking about. You don't have to get interested in sports, but you can say, “What is it about football that keeps everyone here so engaged? I didn't grow up around it and I don't know – I just don't get it.” And they'll go, “Well, it's America, man! Everybody watches football.” And you go like, “Yeah, I guess what's American about it?” “Yes, it's an American sport, but what do you really like about it?” “Do you like watching it? Do you bet on it? Do you just like eating pizza and drinking? What is it that you like about it?” And they go, “Well, you know, it's really the only way I talked to my brother and my family because that's all they really liked to do.” I mean, you'll get into real conversations. You just got to scratch deeper than the surface of, “Did you see that crazy fourth quarter pass?” Right? Of course. It's also a good idea to make friends with people you actually like, but that's another topic for another show.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:18] People you actually like, what a concept!
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:19] I know!
Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:22] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday after these really short, but oh so necessary announcements.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:27] This episode is also sponsored by SimpliSafe. This is such a weird thing to get excited about, but I don't care. We were shopping, Jen and I for a security system, and everything was from the ‘90s, everything was janky old. Everyone had the same stuff too, because it's the big guy in the space. They're the manufacturer, and they haven't bothered to update anything. And I remember they offered us an option to have an app that we could use to control the system and it was 15 dollars a month to use the app and the app was like a button. The app was a button that showed up on your phone screen that was like arm disarm. Alarm is armed. I mean it was like a remote. It turns your phone into a really crappy low res remote that didn't work that much, and you had to rent it for 15 dollars a month. And I was like --
Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:08] Did they have like eight bit graphics, like Mario?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:10] It was so janky and disgust and I, and it would like crash and the button wouldn't work. And I thought like, “Who do I punch in the face for this?” It was just so ridiculous. SimpliSafe is a great security system updated for modern times. There's no drilling, there's no wiring, which is like, “Hello, it's 2018, you don't need wires running along the baseboards of your house to a key pad.” I mean, “How dare you?” Right? There's no tools. You plug in the base station, it looks like a freaking, you know, smart homes speaker. You place your sensors on doors and windows within a few minutes, your entire home is protected. They get these little key fobs. Everything is paired when it arrives at your place, or you can just sort of turn both of the things on. It's like, “Hey, is this your key fob? Is this your key chain? Is this your door sensor?” “Yes.” No contracts, which means that if you don't like them, you can just be done with them. And the system works even if you don't pay for the monitoring, it'll work. And if you have their monitoring, it'll call the cops and they'll monitor your house, but you don't have to have that to use the system.
[00:27:09] So there's no contracts, there's no gotchas, there's no hidden stuff. They've got multiple monitoring centers. So if there's another freaking earthquake, you're still covered. There's a battery in there. So if the power's out, you're protected. It doesn't use a phone line to call the cops if needed. It uses cellular, again, because they know nobody has a freaking landline. So Jason, tell them where they can get SimpliSafe.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:29] Yeah. SimpliSafe now protects over 2 million people. It's sweeping up editor's choice awards from places like CNET, PCMag, and Wirecutter. So to learn more, go to SimpliSafe.com/jordan. That SimpliSafe.com/jordan. S-I-M-P-L-I-S-A-F-E.com/jordan.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:47] This episode is sponsored in part by Indochino. So this is an interesting sponsor because they gave me a suit a long time ago and I thought, “Oh, I don't need a custom suit. I've already got a suit. It's fine.” How much different can a custom suit be and what kind of suit could I possibly get for 400 dollar retail, not even 400 dollar retail price? So I go to the store and I get measured, and I pick out all these different fabrics and I kind of liked what I picked out, and then I got the suit and I went like, “Oh man, I wish I'd picked a different color, da, da, da.” So I go back to the store and they just remade it. Super satisfaction oriented, and then they gave me this awesome suit that shockingly, it was awesome. And I went and I get a vest and I went and got a shirt and it was really just a such an interesting process.
[00:28:35] I'd never had a custom suit before that I had gotten made just for me because imagine, I wear suits so rarely that it didn't make any sense. These suits are about the same price as you'd pay for something off the rack, except it's fully custom and you pick everything. And I mean like the button color, the button lapel, embroidery, all this stuff was custom, and I just really appreciated what they were doing over at Indochino. They have showrooms, you can go in and look at everything. It's not something you just buy online. So I highly recommend this company whether you need shirts, or whether you need an entire suit.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:06] So they have to go to indochino.com. That’s I-N-D-O-C-H-I-N-O.com. Use the code Jordan for a 379 dollar suit from their premium suit collection. If you want to get your suit on the website, use code Jordan for 379 dollars, which is a prime deal from their premium suit collection.
[00:29:25] Thanks for listening and supporting the Jordan Harbinger Show. Your support keeps us on the air. For a list of all the from our amazing sponsors visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers, and if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out, and if you want some tips on how to do that, just head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.
[00:30:00] Hi, Jordan and Jason. Right now my mom has a really tough relationship with her mother and father. They're pretty old, in their ‘80s, and their health is declining, but are almost verbally abusive to my mother. The last time I saw her she was crying because of something mean they had said to her after she came to check in on them and bring them some food when they were under the weather. It's really tough for me to see her like this with people she loves. My mom is a tough cookie and doesn't cry over the little stuff. Right now, I have a pretty good relationship with my grandparents and feel like they would listen if I said something to them about treating my mother a bit kinder. I know the first thing they will try to do is blame my mom for complaining about the problem to me, but I feel like it would be worth sabotaging my relationship with them to get them to consider treating their daughter more kindly.
[00:30:42] They see her almost every week and me maybe only three times a year. I look at everything she's done for them over the 25 years of my childhood and their obstinate responds to her warm actions and it's hard for me to just let it pass. The reason I hesitate though is because I genuinely wonder if I'm one of the last people in their life that they look forward to spending time with because they've alienated everyone else by being mean. They're also very fearful people in general and don't trust easily. They seem to talk bad about everyone else behind their backs. Maybe they do this about me too, and my family shields me from it. Who knows? But I feel like it's time for me to say something since it seems like they really value my relationship with them. So I hope they would listen. But in reality, the person they should be valuing is my mother and they just never see her as good enough no matter what she does. So I guess my question to you is not how to fix this, but if I say something to them about being nicer to their family, how might I phrase it in a way that leaves little to no blame on my mother? Honestly, if they just tell her they love her more often, that's all it would take. Thanks for your suggestions, Angry Old People Problems.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:44] Well this is a sad situation. I'm sorry to hear this. I think it's hard to get older folks to change their ways. I wish I had some sort of foolproof method for doing so. I think you can let them know you've seen the way they treat your mother firsthand. You can even say she's tough and she doesn't complain, but I see it. I see how deflated and sad she is when she comes back from visiting you, and that it seems like they treat her poorly and you know it. And it's damaging their relationship with you and your mom because you love your mom, and I think that needs to sink in. And I also think you can bring up the idea, and this should be done in person by the way, that this is how they're going to be remembered when they go, if they don't change their ways now. Even so, it's going to be how they remembered when they go.
[00:32:32] But is this how they want to be remembered when they go as difficult old people and then have your mom feel guilty that she feels good, that they're gone? I mean that's really what's going to happen. Or do they want to be remembered fondly? And other than some sort of sit down like that, it might be a lost cause. But I think you're right. A heart to heart is in order and yeah, you know what? Maybe they'll get mad at you. Maybe they'll even say mean things to your mom about how she supposedly complained to you about it. But is it going to be worse than it is now? I would say just -- you got to sit down and have that conversation with them because your other option is do nothing. And I think you already know the answer to this question. I don't have so much by way of tactics other than this should be done in person and done with the idea that you're doing this in a caring way, right?
[00:33:20] This isn't “How dare you?” This is, “Hey, I don't know if you know you're doing this, but this isn't right and this is going to cause problems and it is causing problems.” Let us know how it goes. I think there's sad people, and that's probably why they're acting out, but it doesn't make it okay. And I think that they can either work on it or you can facilitate this. But if this doesn't work, it just might be an old person thing when it comes to these grandparents. And that just might be it. And that's sad, but it's not the end of the world. It's a sad situation. So keep in touch and let us know how the talk goes with them. All right. Next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:01] Jordan, on one of the episodes you mentioned that you thought everyone should have some training in sales. As a geeky software developer, I've definitely seen where that lack has hurt in my own life. Can you recommend some good books or other resources for a crash course in sales for those of us who haven't developed those skills? Thank you. From, Software To Sales.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:18] There are a few good resources. I don't have a ton of books. One was Dan Pink, To Sell Is Human. I love that one. Jason, I know your dad was a salesman.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:27] Yeah. My dad's a lifelong salesperson, and he said this is the best book on sales that he's ever read. Yeah, so To Sell Is Human is definitely something to pick up.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:34] There's also a podcast done by a really good salesman, friend of mine. It's called the Brutal Truth About Sales and Selling. It's really good. There's a lot of good wisdom in there, from the trenches, not from some academic who studied sales academically in a business school and had spreadsheets to prove it. It's from a guy who does a lot of them in his car because he's selling things. And I did take the basic Dale Carnegie sales course. It wasn't amazing because I was already well versed in sales. But for people who had never sold anything, I think it was really good, and it was not expensive either. The best teacher of course, as always is experience even if you're selling something on the side. And so my idea for you here is to volunteer at a nonprofit where like on Saturday afternoons or something, where you solicit donations, or even a Thursday night, whatever it is, solicit donations from people.
[00:35:25] They'll train you a little, and that's selling. I know it doesn't seem like it because you're not getting someone to buy a product, but really you kind of are. You're selling goodwill for a charity, you're getting money in exchange, you're overcoming objections. And the good news is you don't have to be fantastic. They're not going to fire you, right? I'm sure they fire people who are terrible at soliciting donations. But if you're going into it with the idea of getting good at this, you'll learn from the other people who are in the office doing the sales, doing the training. You're a volunteer, you're not going to -- they're not going to go, “All right, it's Friday who hit their quota?” “All right, Sandy, you're fired. Get your crap and leave.” Right? As long as you do your best and work hard, they're going to be glad to have you. And it's a really good way to ease into it, because I do think everyone should have some training in sales, but I don't think you have to go door to door selling vacuums for three years to get it done.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:36:11] Another thing that I'd throw out is that, this person is a software developer. So theoretically their company may be doing trade shows and booths at trade shows. And I know that when I was in my startups, I would have to sit there on the floor and sell the company. And so what you can do is volunteer, if they have a booth somewhere. So say, “Hey look, I know you guys are going to have to go to lunch. You want to hit some of the courses or anything, the meetings. I can man the booth while your guys are gone,” and you can start to pitch the company. And the first 10 are going to be gut wrenching. You're going to be terrible at it, but after that you're just going to get better at it and better at it. You're going to hone your pitch, you're going to get more familiar with people coming up to you. You're not going to be like, “Oh my God, I hope nobody comes. I hope nobody comes.” And by the end you're going to be like, “Oh come on over here, check out our software product and let me tell you about all of the gives bang widgets we got here going on.” And that kind of environment because it's like you know, low impact but you get to be in front of people and you get to start honing your pitches and you become comfortable talking to people as a first step. I think one of those types of things also would definitely get you a leg up.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:12] Good ideas. All right, perfect. Next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:37:15] Jordan and team. So I hear every episode, you talk about claiming your space on the web with your own website. What am I supposed to do with it? I love my job and see a huge potential for growth. Most of my job doesn't involve creating a ton of visuals or anything you would typically find in a portfolio. I maintain large partnerships, manage ROI on sponsorships and organization participation, handle events for six branches in education, communication for the brand partners, et cetera. I'm looking to claim my space online soon, but what would you suggest as the best purpose for a website without looking like I'm trying to find new opportunities. Yes, I know marketing is my job and should know what to do, but I don't, and it's embarrassing. Signed, Webless Wendy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:55] Ah, okay. This is interesting. She does have a good point. When we talk about claiming your space on the web, what we're talking about is making sure that you have a domain, that's for your name or at least as close as you can. You know, it's going to be tough to get everyone's name, especially if you have a common name but it does help, because you just don't know in the future. And Jason, you and I can sort of discuss this here in real time. You just don't know in the future what you're going to need, right? Yes, you don't want to create something where your boss goes, “Hey Wendy, I notice you have your resume up on a marketing website. Are you looking for other opportunities? Do we have to have a talk in the office? Do I have to fire you?” You know what you could do is make sure, got your domain, make sure you've got something up there where maybe it links to your Instagram, your LinkedIn, your Facebook page and things like that, and it's got a little brief bio about you but it doesn't have your resume, it doesn't have your work projects, it doesn't look like you're seeking other opportunities. It's just sort of a parking place for some of the things that you like.
[00:38:44] You could also even do some of your interests there. Like “Oh fitness stuff.” Or “Here's my blog about training for a Spartan race,” and I just take a photo every month to show you how my training is going. I mean that stuff can really be what it is, because in the future you don't know. You know, you might leave your company or you might say, “Oh I need it -- I'm doing this side gig making baskets and I need a website for that.” And you don't have to start from zero with no SEO and find out that the name that you wanted is taken, and that you don't have anywhere to link all of your other stuff, and you spend so much time on your Facebook, but now you're more of LinkedIn person, you can just have a one size fits all redirection. So that's why we recommend the HostGator Website Builder because you can claim that domain and you can claim that space and you can sort of set it and forget it. You don't have to make a professional website that gets updated every three days.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:44] I think what it really comes down to is having your own domain and your own email because everybody's got a Gmail account, but it's much more professional if you have at yourname.com or .edu or whatever, whatever domain.ninja, .pizza, whatever that TLD might be. You want to have that because in the future, Jordan's right, you never know what's going to happen. You might have all of your stuff on LinkedIn, but you never know if LinkedIn is going to go down because it just got sold to Microsoft a couple of years ago. You never know if they're going to shutter that and you never know Facebook's going to go away because these things do have life cycles to them. But your own website won't. You will be in control of it. You'll own that domain, and for from here on out, you can say like for me, all my stuff is at jpd.me. I've had that domain for 10 years now and everybody knows just go there. So I've got my email there, it's not a Gmail address because maybe someday Gmail will go away. You just never know these things. So it's just a good -- it's future prep is all it is, and it's a good thing to have in your back pocket just in case.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:44] Agree. All right. Last, but not least.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:40:47] Hi Jordan. I'm a new podcast host and I want to learn how to smartly train myself to become a fantastic podcast show host like you. Oh, here we go. Such as -- how to prepare for a show once the guest accepts the invitation? How to prepare good questions so the guest enjoys talking with you? How to listen carefully and respond naturally instead of going through scripted questions one after another? What are the process and steps you guys do to prepare for each show? Because I'm a young podcast host, I tend to pay more attention to what you say rather than the guests. I'm amazed how smoothly you throw speeches and how fast you respond. I know it's 10 plus years of practice, but still it's a jaw-dropping skill. In addition, I also enjoy the ads in the show. They are very convincing and touching. No idea if they are scripted or not. Regardless, well done. Sincerely, Teach Me Oh Master.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:32] Huh! I know you made up that name, Jason. These are not scripted -- the ads, and yes, a lot of it is 10 plus years of practice. I would say, first of all, we're going to, Jason, you and I are going to have to do some sort of product on how we prepped for the show, how we host, how he goes through the whole thing, because we get this email every other week, this one just happened to make it into Feedback Friday. But the way we prepare for the show, once the guest accepts the invitation is sort of not even necessarily in that order. Sometimes the guest says, “I want to be on your show,” and we say, “Show us the prep.” And so we have a prep document that people can look at, and it asks for basic ideas of what they want to teach, practicals, drills, and exercises, and then we usually send it back and say, “Hey, buy my book is not a practical exercise. Watch this movie that I think is interesting is not a practical exercise. We want real drills, real practicals, if you can't think of any, let's jump on the phone.” Some of it's an exercise in prodding people to go, “Oh, I've got to actually step up my game for this show.” “All right, all right, all right, our final. Sit down and do this and we just don't book anything until that person has done that. If it's somebody who we know we can prepare for ourselves by reading their book, I'll read the whole book, and I've said that before I go through and try to figure out what sort of practical drills and exercises they might use, and if there's no drill, I might make one up that has to do with what the skills they're teaching are, or I might tease one out based on their experience and then talk to the guest about it.
[00:42:57] I also prepare the questions because I'm trying to think of what the audience wants. I'm not trying to make friends with the guest. I'm trying to think of what you as a listener would want to know, so I'm not like, “Ooh, I have this really smart observation about how your work is similar to Kunt or whatever.” Look, I'm not trying to get them to go, “Ooh, you're so smart and well-read.” What I'm trying to do is have the audience that's you say, “I wonder if he -- what is the first thing he bought when he got rich?” and I'm like, “Hey look, what was the first thing you bought when you got rich as a rockstar?” They're like, “Oh my gosh! That was a question I was going to ask.” If being an advocate for the audience, that's so much more important than trying to make friends with the guest or sound smart.
[00:43:36] So if you're thinking from the audience perspective as much as possible, you will have a much better time hosting than you would if you're just trying to figure out how to achieve some other goal like look smart or make the guest talk about how great you are or something like this. Also listening and responding naturally instead of going through scripted questions, don't write a bunch of scripted questions is the easiest way to do that. If you write a bunch of questions, read them before the show and then toss them out, and then you don't have this document to stare at while the person is talking. So how to listen and respond naturally? The way you do that is by listening and then responding naturally because remember, you are the best advocate for the audience. Pretend you're an audience member except for you're the lucky SOB, who gets to talk into the mic and have the other person hear you, right?
[00:44:24] You don't have to think of clever questions to ask. You're already listening to the answer so you can already have the conversation. And there are many more steps and processes that we do to prepare for each show, I really appreciate the kind words. A lot of it is practice, but really if I'd done the prep properly early on, I think my skills would have developed a lot quicker than 10 years. What do you think, Jason?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:36] Absolutely, and a lot of it comes down to practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, and then when you're done with that practice some more.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:41] There you go. All right. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget, you can email us email@example.com to get your questions answered on the air. Happy to keep you anonymous,oOf course. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shout out to Loretta Kreet, The Aussie Pilgrim. She signed up for The We Are Podcast Convention down in Australia this year. She wants to meet me there, and I'm looking forward to it. She's also traveling to Spain on her own, to walk over 500 miles from Irun to Santiago. She's 50, and 50 is not old, but 500 miles is far. I'm just going to throw both of those things out there. That's incredible. That sounds like an amazing adventure. Loretta, I'm looking forward to hearing all about that. That just sounds -- I hope you're back by then. You only have a few months. 500 miles is a long way. My goodness!
[00:45:33] And look, somebody sent me this bone broth called Best of the Bone bone broth. It's got this Italian herbs and garlic flavor. It's so delicious. I can't remember who you are, I'm sorry. I know we talked on email or was it social media or was it Instagram, was it Facebook, was it Twitter? I don't remember. This bone broth Best of the Bone is really, really, really, really good. Jen and I both really like it, so whoever you are, thank you very much. Reach back out to me via email if you would, just like and properly thank you in person. I'm on Instagram and Twitter @jordanharbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show. Jason, tell him where to find you.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:05] I'm on Instagram @JPD, Twitter as jpdef, and you can check out my other podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks every Monday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:11] Keep sending in those questions to firstname.lastname@example.org. Remember, try to keep them concise if you can. It makes things a lot easier for us on our end. Share the show with those you love, even those you don't. Got a lot more in the pipeline. Very excited to bring it to you as always. And in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.
[00:46:32] If you'd like this show, you're not going to want to miss No Excuses with Jon Taffer. Shut it down and listen to Jon, the award winning hospitality legend as he brings his straight talk and unapologetic approach to daily topics and current events. You don't want to miss his latest interviews with Adam Carolla and RJ Bell, the host of Dream Preview on PodcastOne. So download, no excuses, every Tuesday on PodcastOne, podcastone.com, and Apple Podcasts.
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