Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Jason DeFillippo (@jpdef) banter every week and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday!
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On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- How hard should you push your spouse toward a life-changing decision that seems obvious to you as the right one?
- How do you avoid becoming your old boss’ free financial advisor just because you happened to give him some good investing advice once?
- How far does loyalty go toward a friend from whom you’ve grown apart?
- How should you evaluate LinkedIn connection requests? Are you being too narrow by only limiting connections to people you’ve met in the real world?
- Should you stay put in your high-stress job in your high-stress city because it encapsulates everything familiar, or should you move your family to a place where work-life balance is actually a thing but you’d be starting all over again?
- How many sides are there really to a love triangle when one doesn’t want anything to do with the other two?
- Should you keep working for a boss who thinks you’re wonderful one day and the next wants to fire you?
- You’ve got a better job offer and it’s time to leave notice with your covert narcissist of an employer. But why’s it so hard to break up with such a bad situation?
- Recommendations of the Week: Magic for Humans and Shin Lim Magic on Penn and Teller: Fool Us.
- Quick shoutouts to Andrew Lopez and Blaz Stefe!
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Jason on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks.
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CarCast is a twice weekly automotive podcast hosted by Adam Carolla, Bill Goldberg and Matt “The Motorator” D’Andria. Check it out on PodcastOne here!
Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!
Resources from This Episode:
- 93: Jocko Willink | Leading on the Line Between Extreme and Reckless
- 94: Deep Dive | This Is the Vulnerable Truth about Vulnerability
- Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) Form — Create a Free NDA Form
- Dangerous Liaisons
- Dangerous Personalities: An FBI Profiler Shows You How to Identify and Protect Yourself from Harmful People by Joe Navarro and Toni Sciarra Poynter
- Magic for Humans
- Shin Lim Magic on Penn and Teller: Fool Us
Transcript for How to Break Free from Covert Narcissists | Feedback Friday (Episode 95)
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger, and I'm here with producer, Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger Show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests. And this week we had Jocko Willink talking about the dichotomy between extreme ownership and leadership. This is a lot of interesting tensions here in leadership. Like be prepared, but don't hold everybody's hand too much. You got to be aggressive but not so aggressive, you lose sight of the goal. There was a lot of really cool business applicable and personal life applicable skills in there. Jacko always brings it, always scares the crap out of the audience, et cetera. So that was a good one. And the Deep Dive with Gabriel Mizrahi about vulnerability. This is something that him and I have been thinking about a lot, especially because vulnerability is really trendy these days. And it's like, “You got to be vulnerable, got to be open, got to be vulnerable.” But a lot of it’s tactical and kind of fake. And so we draw the line between tactical vulnerability and authentic vulnerability. And we outlined with both of these are how to spot people using them against you so you can avoid being manipulated by that kind of thing. That was I think, a necessary skill set, especially for today's day and age. That was Thursday's episode.
[00:01:08] And of course our primary mission here on the show is to pass along our guests wisdom and experiences, insights to you, but also to pass along our experiences and insights to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations directly with you and that's what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us firstname.lastname@example.org. Try to keep them concise if you can, it really does increase the chance that we'll get to your question here. And Jason, we just got back from Fireside. That was a lot of fun, man. Camping and the Canadian wilderness.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:39] That was a ton of fun. I'd never thought that going off the grid would be something that I'd really be looking forward to, but it was a nice vacation, I think for us. We needed that every now and again.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:48] Yeah, it was nice to unplug. It was great to meet a lot of fans of the show and now friends of course, and the organizers, Steven and Daniel really did a bang up job on Fireside. I think it was fun. It was cold AF, but it was fun.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:02] Yes, it was. It was supremely cold, and I didn't even have anybody to snuggle with.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:06] That's right. Yeah, that's right. Well count your blessings. I had two ice cube feet on me all night every night. So all right, as always, we've got some fun questions and some doozies, and I can't wait to dive into this one. Jason, what is the first thing out of the mailbag here?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:21] Hi Jordan, Jason, Jenn, and crew. I'm a self-proclaimed fly by the seat of your pants life is too short to not take risks, jump in and figure it out as you go kind of gal and my husband is, well the complete opposite. He's a risk averse, stars need to be aligned, safety net kind of gentleman. He's been successfully doing his side hustle for about three years now on top of helping build and manage a marketing firm from the ground up. He works around the clock, no work life balance, but that's a whole other show. About 90 percent of his clients come in from his personal side gig and he funnels them into the marketing firm for a small commission on top of a small salary. For the first couple of years, it was just going to balance both my course is built in, launched that came and went and in five days he made as much from his course launch as he made in a year in his full time gig.
[00:03:07] I haven't felt a huge need to get too pushy with my husband and persuade him into giving up the comfort of his full time job to focus on his side hustle even though it truly makes more sense because you would make more money and have more free time. We've been working on getting mine and my son's Australian residency card since my husband is an Australian citizen. It's been two years and we finally been approved. Now that we can go, my husband doesn't seem to be able to make any life changing decisions like finalizing a time when we can pull the trigger and move, and the more I push, the more he comes up with things like, “Well, let's keep our home here. It might not be a permanent move.” And when I pushed him a little harder, it becomes, “I think I'm going to try to keep working with my full time gig and we can live six months out of the year in Australia and six months out of the year here. So we'll always live in the summer and I'll work remotely and keep my side hustle so we can afford this lifestyle. His decisions or lack thereof seemed to be made out of fear. I want to push him into making this huge move because his family truly needs him, and I think moving closer to his family will force him to have a better work life balance in the long run. But is it my place to push him? The move is equally frightening and exciting to me. To disrupt my son's entire world is frightening, but it's also a great life experience and will help him grow and become a well-rounded individual. So do I push or do I not push? That is the question. My brain is fly by the seat of my pants tight, but moving across the old pond from Idaho to Australia is going to be a ton of work and it'll take a lot of planning. How hard do I push to get them to commit to a realistic plan? Cheers, Packed And Ready.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:35] So push isn't really the right word for somebody who's risk averse in this case. This certainly sounds frustrating actually. I mean, it sounds like, “Oh, just poop or get off the pot, buddy.” But you really just, you don't want him to get off the pot, you want him to poop. So maybe push is the right word. But what I mean here is that you should pull instead. And what I mean by this is you want people to persuade themselves. You want him to want to do this. You want to make sure that he's on the same page as you and that everybody is in agreement with the course of action here. Pushing can lead to resentment. Pulling of course can as well, but this is really, like I said, the difference between them persuading themselves and you pushing them to do something that they don't yet want to do.
Obviously we want him to persuade himself to do it with your encouragement.
[00:05:24] So what I would do in this situation is focused on why this is good for your son, why it's good for his son, why it's good for your whole family, including those on his side of the family down in Australia, and then last and absolutely last, focus on why it's good for him. If he's risk averse, there's a chance that he's afraid of something like, well, maybe you could find out what that is through some honest talks, but if he's afraid of something, he's willing to be uncomfortable in order to avoid that fear. And I'll repeat that. If he's afraid of something, he's willing to be uncomfortable in order to avoid that fear or that fear coming true. So you have to show the benefit or loss to your quality of life and the quality of life of your son and family far outweigh the security that he feels by playing it safe.
[00:06:15] So pulling, not pushing is the key to this. And it sounds like you've got an exciting adventure ahead. Congratulations. I'm excited for all of you. I think it's going to be really fun. I understand why he's feeling, “Oh I got to hedge my bets.” But I think that is probably his nature and showing where the benefits are and the loss that you're going to have by trying to play it safe is going to outweigh the loss of taking the plunge. That's how he's going to get pushed into or pulled into decision making mode here. All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:46] Hey J, J, and J. I like investing in individual companies listed on the stock market and I've had fairly good success over the last couple of years with about a 20 percent per annum return. I have one friend who used to be my boss who constantly asks me what I'm invested in and what my next investment idea is. It's kind of a little awkward as he's essentially looking to bypass all of the work it takes to properly value a stock. My mistake was providing him with a previous recommendation that did really well. Now I try to avoid the question, but I'm finding it difficult. The problem is that it's a little awkward to try to explain that I don't give out recommendations. I don't want to be responsible for any losses that he might have. Additionally, I don't think he should get a free ride from all the work that I do. Please help. This is clearly a social hole that I need help digging out of. Signed, Frustrated Finance Guy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:34] So money is a funny topic. I think I know more about all my friends' sex lives than I do about their financial situations, and I think this is actually pretty normal. It's definitely a mistake by the way, to have given great advice or any advice at all, but I get why and how this happened, so don't beat yourself up over that at all. If the same guy is asking you about investments, you've got a couple of options. One, you can figure out how to legally charge him for the consulting. He should pay for this, if he wants to ride on your wave. Be careful here. Financial advice is a very tricky business. You probably need several licenses or something like that in order to do this, or you have to be careful what you say. Two, you can tell them that you're contractually obligated to keep things like that confidential, that type of information or advice. That's pretty much the end of it. Now, if he asks more, you can tell him you have an NDA and you can't say anything, and if you don't like fibbing, which I don't, generally, you can have your own company that you own hold the NDA on your behalf. In other words, you signed the NDA to yourself.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:39] That's kind of crafty. I like that.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:41] Yeah. My law degree coming in handy here. You sign the NDA to yourself and we can do that kind of thing here too. It's like, “Oh well I don't want to do this. I don't want to share all this trade secret.” Well, instead of just saying that's my trade secret, I can say, “Look, I've got an NDA, and it matter if the NDA is something that I wrote and then that is held by Jordan Harbinger LLC or Advanced Human Dynamics. It just matters that it's in place. And if none of the above works, by the way, you can find an NDA standard on anywhere from LegalZoom to doc stock or something like that. There's tons of stuff that you can find online that will do what you need it to do. Remember, this isn't something that's got a hold up in court. You just have to be able to say, “I have an NDA, and not feel like you're a liar.”
[00:09:24] If none of the above works and he's still bugging you, then he's not really your friend. He seems a bit greedy. I get it though, he’d made a bunch of money off your advice in the past. You know, it's kind of like having a friend who can tell winning lottery numbers, why not? It doesn't hurt to ask, but it does hurt. It's annoying. He already had a big win, and if he's really that keen on more, he should pay you for your advice or he should leave you the heck alone. And if you think that sounds rude or sounds harsh, just remember he's using you. He's using you, okay? So that's my 2 cents. And I know people go, “Well, I don't want to cut somebody off like that.” Look, he's using you, okay? And if you are somebody that doesn't like that, then stop letting people do it. But I think that it does make sense, I get why they're doing it, but he won't stop and you've asked him to then, yeah, he's just using it. So go grab an NDA or say that if you're comfortable just saying you have one, then there you go. Or figure out how to charge him. He owes it to you. He owes it to you. If he wants to take your advice and make money with it, that's how this business works.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:22] Oh, seriously. I love that NDA approach. I'm going to go sign an NDA to myself right now so I can pull it out anytime anybody asked me for advice. “Oh, sorry bro, NDA.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:31] Yep, pretty much. In fact, I'm going to link to a website here, rocket lawyer with an NDA form, and it's got a drop down. So you choose what state you're in, and then you kind of fill it out online. Yes, you have to create an account there. So there's probably going to be like buy our legal services or something like that. But it's a decent looking NDA, and it sort of helps you fill it out depending on what state you're in it. And again, remember this doesn't have to hold up in court or anything. You're signing it for your own company that you own. It's just some things that you can sleep at night and say, “Look, I've got an NDA,” and most of you won't care. You'll probably just say, “I've gotten NDA,” and you're fibbing, and that's fine. But for me, I just I like to just not ever lie if I don't have to at all, and so I use this, and I recommend doing the same, if you're the same as me.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:19] This is Feedback Friday, we'll be right back after this.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:22] This episode is sponsored in part by HostGator, one of my faves. These guys are so nice. Everybody who works there is a gem. I'm serious. It's ridiculous. It's like how did you find just the nicest people and get them all in one place? Everybody is a brand nowadays. On social media, it's getting harder and more expensive to get yourself notice. And since those social media sites come and go or you know, get vacuumed up by Cambridge Analytica. You've got to have your own stable place on the Internet that you can call home and that's why we recommend HostGator's Website Builder. You can easily create a looking feature packed website. The best part, no coding, no figuring out why something is unaligned because you had a slash somewhere or a period somewhere and you got to spend five hours finding it. You can choose from over a hundred mobile friendly templates, so your site is going to look great on any device. Smart phone, tablet, desktop. They also have a ton of add-ons, SEO stuff, PayPal integration, stuff that lets people buy items that you create directly from your website and 99.9 percent guaranteed uptime. That means it's not going to go down and they're like, “Oh yeah, we're on it. See you on Monday.” Their support team is there to help with any issues you have 24/7, 365, and of course, they're given our peeps up to 62 percent off all their packages for new users, so go to hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. That's hostgator.com/jordan.
[00:12:42] This episode is sponsored in part by DesignCrowd. Crowdsourcing is how busy people get stuff done in the 21st century and thanks to DesignCrowd, you can focus on running your business while handing over the reigns for your company's logo, web design t- shirt, you name it to a pool of over 600,000 designers from around the world. DesignCrowd crowdsources custom work based on your specs. You pick the design you like best, pay for it and there you go. You visit designcrowd.com/jordan. You tell them what you want. They invite the designers 600,000 plus from Sydney to San Francisco to respond. Your designs will start rolling in. You'll get hundreds. I got like 600 when I posted mine. You pick the design you like best and you approve payment to the designer and if you don't like it, they got a money back guarantee. Jason, where can they find design crowd?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:26] Check out designcrowd.com/jordan. That's D-E-S-I-G-N-C-R-O-W-D.com/jordan for a special 100 dollar VIP offer for our listeners, or simply enter the discount code JORDAN when posting a project on DesignCrowd. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors that get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers, and if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, just head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:07] All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:08] Jordan and Jason. How far does loyalty go? I have a work friend whom I respect, but don't necessarily like and feel I've grown out of. We had each other's back through some intensely difficult times, both personal and professional a year and a half ago. However, now that the personal and professional waters have calmed for both of us and we're in a smooth sailing groove, we don't seem to have that much in common. In fact, on the occasions we do hang out, we seem to differ in completely contradictory ways. She's not growth-minded nor striving to meet the higher value range I'm currently looking for in friendships. I'm not really interested in hanging out or keeping up with her now, but I feel I owe it to the link we previously had. How hard do I need to try to maintain this friendship that's built on prior kindredness and trustworthiness within an intense situation where she could have chosen the easier route but chose to support me instead. Signed, Friend Or Fake It.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:58] So this is a hard situation. I understand why you feel torn here. There's something to be said for people that had your back when the chips were down. Now that said, there's a difference between someone who offers emotional support and having to hang out with someone all the time. You can, one, try to encourage growth by an introducing her to new things that will expand her horizons. Maybe start with this show. I'm just saying, I'm just throwing ideas out there. Two, you can distance yourself, not by being harsh or blowing her off or ignoring her phone calls or texts or anything, but just by simply choosing to spend your time elsewhere. Three, you can fake it and you can be miserable when together and eventually resent her so much that you end up hating each other. I've seen that happen before too. It's okay to grow apart from people. I think that's the big takeaway here. It's okay to grow apart from people. Hell, I grew apart from my former company, and I've never been in a better place and the one regret I have is not letting myself go earlier out of guilt. Knowing these guys are screwed and off we leave and dah, dah, dah. We've been together for so long, working on this business I should've left a long time ago and you're going to feel the same way and then you're going to present wasting your time with this person in the future.
[00:16:10] Of course, look, you may feel some guilt for this. I get that, I really do. But remember, you can still offer someone, you could still offer her emotional support when she needs it. You can be there for her in good times and for rough times, but you don't have to hang out every single weekend just because of your history with one another. I understand why you're torn, but I think for your own sake and your own sanity and your own growth, you've got to let it go. I hope that helps.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:16:33] Yeah. Sounds like a little sunk cost fallacy in action there.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:36] Yeah. Well, and also just like not wanting to blow someone off because they were nice back in the day, and I get that. That means you're a nice person, but you also can't say, “Well, I'm going to have the same friends I had back in the day because they were there for this hard time and I guess I can't grow and because I have to do what they're interested in.” That just doesn't make sense. All right, next step.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:00] Jordan and Jason, how do you evaluate LinkedIn connection requests? Am I being too narrow by only limiting my connections to people I've met in the real world. Many of the stranger connections tend to be professionals making cold requests with something to sell. They never take the time to even send a personal message introducing themselves. I reached a point about a month ago where I trimmed off about 40 connections. I was growing tired of realtors I've never met showing off selfies in front of a mic mansion they just sold. I recognize your show creates a higher amount of social media requests for you, but I'm curious to hear your advice for the average business professional. Keep up the good work, Mike in the Midwest. PS. I've started using Advanced Human Dynamics to reconnect with some past colleagues on LinkedIn.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:41] Hey, Mike in the Midwest. First, I'm super glad to hear you're using Six-Minute Networking. It's really important. Again, this is this stuff I wish I knew 10, 15 years ago. This is all the reengaging of weaker or dormant ties that takes you from, “Well, I don't know if I have a network,” or “I don't know if I know anyone.” To “Wow! I know a lot of people and this is really great and there's so much opportunity.” jordanharbinger.com/course, I say it in pretty much every show and without fail, every day I get a message on Instagram or Twitter and someone's like, “Oh yeah, I never heard of this, but I listened to every episode of the show and I'm just thinking “Do you though?” “Do you listen to every episode or are you just there when it's playing?” Look, I may have some LinkedIn stuff to add to LevelOne or even LevelTwo, which will be coming out at some point as well.
[00:18:25] For me on LinkedIn, I connect with pretty much everyone assuming they're a fan of the show. When it comes to my advice for people who aren't public figures of any kind, so for regular professionals in business. I'd say keeping it to people you know is one thing and it may be too tight, it might limit some opportunity there for you. There's something to be said for reaching out using social media. That said, don't just accept everyone. What I've been doing for years is sending a message to all new connections, asking how they heard about me, if we know each other through the show or someplace else, et cetera. This starts a conversation, and in your case, I wouldn't accept their request until they reply. This will filter out most of the junk that you're seeing. I also recommend trimming regularly, if you get spam from someone. I got a one strike rule. If you see something lame in your news feed, like a realtor with a selfie in front of the McMansion they just sold, trim them too. Those people are hunting for leads and they're doing so in a very transactional and spammy way. Those are the people that ruin social media and networking for everyone. So blah there.
[00:19:32] I also recommend using tools like TextExpander. I use this for everything. I could do a whole show, or our product about using TextExpander just as a software tool. It's not free, but it is one of the most important pieces of software on my computer and on my iPhone. It uses keyboard shortcuts to paste entire scripts. So you can type a note that says, “Hey, how do we know each other?” Or something like that. “Thanks for connecting,” and prompts them to reply to your message. And then you can trigger it with two or three key presses instead of retyping the entire message each time. So I trigger that and I tailor the message of course, but it takes far less time than writing a paragraph or three sentences to each person that tries to add me on LinkedIn. I use this for literally hundreds of words and phrases on my computer, which allows me to type almost in shorthand using TextExpander. TextExpander also shows how much time it saved me. And I think as of right now, TextExpander has saved me something like 35 hours of straight typing, at 80 words per minute. So that's about 900,000 characters I didn't have to type because of this program. Think about how many that is. That's insane how much that is.
[00:20:43] So yes, screen your connections before accepting, trim them mercilessly and enjoy a little peace and quiet in your newsfeed. If someone really wants to reach you, they can also use InMail to send you a message. There's no need to be so accessible in your case. I hope that helps. Add me on LinkedIn, bro.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:21:03] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this. This episode is also sponsored by Wrangler. Everybody has a favorite pair of jeans. The pair that fits perfectly and always looks great. The pair you wear out at night, at home on the couch, at work, wherever. They’re the go to. Do not underestimate their importance. No one knows this better than Wrangler, the authority on jeans. Using their expertise and comfort and durability. Wrangler jeans are made for the adventurers, the go getters, folks who like to keep moving, whether you ride a bike of bronc, or a skateboard, or if you're the type who walks in the Earth in search of something. These are the jeans for you. Classic or modern styles. A range of fits at a price that works for you. Vintage rereleases Wrangler has something for everyone. Visit wrangler.com and check out their great selection of jeans, shirts, pants, outerwear for men and women. New styles, great fits. Wrangler, real comfortable jeans.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:53] This episode is sponsored in part by Style for Work at Express. Express is a store that's been one of my staples for a while now, through college into my professional years as a lawyer if you can -- I'm putting professional in air quotes, as a lawyer and beyond. And what I like is that they have great work clothes, but also things that look great when you're out on the town and at happy hour you're going out at night, whatever. Work places, of course, these days are much less formal than they used to be, so you can dress a little bit more casual but not too ridiculous. So Express for me is a great balance for this new work environment and they're leaning into it with their style for work line here. They've got some of the best dress pants, chinos, dress shirts, blazers and suits around. So whether you need a suit for that upcoming job interview or you just need a blazer to rock with jeans because you work in a cool workplace with casual Fridays. You can refresh your closet so you can dress for the job that you want and Express performance suiting is actually designed with a nice stretch fabric that moves with you, keeps its shape. It's great for short commutes, cross country flights, and pretty much everything in between. And I've seen people biking with these things. I mean that's a performance suit there. Jason, where can they get this?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:23:02] So you can shop now for men sizes up to XXL in 42 waist and 36 length. That's a big dude right there. That's right in my alley I think. So shop style for work now at your nearest Express Store or on express.com, and you can get 25 dollars off when you spend 100 dollars on anything it Express using the code JORDAN. That's 25 bucks off when you spend 100 dollars on anything. That's anything using code JORDAN. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers. We also have an Alexa Skill, so you can get inspirational and educational clips from the show and your daily briefing. Go to jordan.com/alexa, or search for Jordan Harbinger in the Alexa App. And now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:53] All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:23:55] Hi, Jordan and Jason. I'm in my mid-thirties and live in the high stress status obsessed city of Washington D.C with a stressful PR job to match. I battle anxiety and most days teeter on the edge of total burnout. Constantly questioning how I've allowed myself to stay in a work environment this toxic to my mental health. Over the past two years, I've applied to dozens of jobs and twice was in a final stage of interviews before being rejected. Well, these were particularly crushing. I've come to realize how completely and utterly sick of D.C I've become. I broadened my scope and started casually looking at jobs in the Bay Area, LA, Denver, and Boston. However, after spending a few weeks in Europe this summer and learning about the generally incredible work life balance in Europe, I started to seriously wonder if my husband and I could try Europe out for a few years after securing jobs. Through a parent, I'm a dual citizen of the EU, which would eliminate some red tape, and my husband and I each speak conversational French and Swedish. Well, my husband is fine with D.C and wouldn't have spearheaded such a big move on his own. He wants me to be happy and has helped me search for jobs all over the world. The problem is our whole life is in D.C, family, friends, community, our condo, and our routines. Is such a big move, so crazy to contemplate? Earlier I thought of moved to the West Coast, was bold and now I have Europe stuck on my mind. As a dutiful daughter, I'm already wracked with guilt over leaving my family behind, but the other part of me knows I'll have regrets if I don't leave my comfort zone once in my life. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you for all that you do. Love the show, Baby Steps to Boston Or High Tail It To Europe.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:23] Hey, Baby Steps. This is super exciting. Lots to be really excited about with this one. First thing is that a move is a move really. Moving to California still leaves everyone behind. You still got to pack everything. You still got to to deal with all the crap, without getting any of the advantages you're talking about by going to Europe, so nix that one if you're looking for the big change that you mentioned before. Like with Boston, you can still see all of your friends. You can still visit people, but here's the truth, you're not going to do that. I mean you might a little bit here and there but you're not going to do it as much, so you'll probably just see them as often as you would moving pretty much anywhere else. I encourage if you're up for it to break routines, make some new friends, keep in touch with old ones and get that work life balance.
[00:26:08] My bet is that you actually become closer to some friends, the ones you really like because you're making more of an effort after you move. Besides you might come back to the U.S at some point, even if you don't come back to D.C, and to me, it doesn't sound like you're asking if the move is a good idea. It sounds, if I'm reading between the lines here, like you're asking for permission to leave your comfort zone, and I always encourage this. I really don't see the downside for you other than the general fear of diving into something new. So try to reframe that fear of the unknown as excitement for the future and a save me a bed over there in Europe. All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:46] Hey there, triple J. About a year ago I got selected for the super competitive and prestigious leadership program. The program was fantastic and I made some really great new friends. This whole experience has been slightly soured because of a love triangle gone horribly wrong. One of my classmates and I connected pretty early on in the program. Let's call him Jacob. Jacob and I did a lot of flirting and even hung out outside of the program. However, I found out he had a girlfriend in December, so I pumped the brakes, but then he ended up inviting me to a Falcons game, held my hand, and I started liking him again. Several weeks after the game, we went out for dinner alone for the first time. He then asked me if I wanted to get drinks and we ended up spending like five hours together. I thought this was it. The next day I told him I had a crush on him, but wanted to continue building our friendship too. So I figured we'd keep going down this road and maybe something more would develop.
Well, another woman in my class, we’ll call her, Kimberly, also started to like Jacob. I didn't know this. In fact, Kim and I were starting to build a friendship. I'd gone to her house warming and we'd hung out several times, because Jacob and I were closer friends. I invited him for coffee a couple of days later to ask for some clarity. He said nothing was going on. Lies. Damn lies. Turns out that wasn't true and several weeks later they showed up in an event together. I've stopped speaking to both of them. I can't remember the last time I've been so hurt and humiliated. I've slowly gotten over it. I mean, he and I weren't dating, and she and I weren't all that close, so thinking rationally I should be good, but as a group, we hang out often and it still slightly bothers me when I see them together. On top of that, one of our classmates will give me updates even though I tell her I have zero interest in hearing about it. She's gotten better about it, but we'll still sometimes gossip at me with them. It's really annoying because I don't want to carry around this baggage. I want them to flourish if that's in the cards for them, but if I never saw or spoke to them again, that would be awesome too. But I know that's not possible. Kim has even reached out to try to be friends again, but I let her know plainly that I don't want to be friends ever with either of them. Any advice for how I can rise above this drama and keep my cool? Sincerely, Hot and Bothered.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:46] Wow! That sucks. That's a crappy situation. Props to you by the way, for drawing a boundary there. This sort of emotion fades with time. I know that's like, “Oh, time heals all wounds.” “Shut up, Jordan.” You're not wrong to feel embarrassed or hurt by this though. You really aren't. Those people are total jerks and you're well within your rights to avoid them. Tell the gossip to keep her mouth shut by the way. It's not helping you get over things any faster. And I think once you find someone that you like once again, you'll realize that this doesn't bug you as much anymore. As much as I hate this answer, the truth is avoiding the stimuli that's causing the problem. So avoid the drama, avoid the gossip, cutting a boundary and getting on with your own life is remedy number one. Remedy number two is giving it time to let it fade out on its own. I know a lot of people are like, “You have to confront this and that and the other.” You don't. You really don't. You can set for yourself and not have it in your face all the time. In the meantime, don't feel any guilt at all by the way, about setting boundaries. That's really important here. You have the right to feel pissed off and not want to let these people into your headspace again, definitely not a self -- I know it's on self-helpy of me to say that. But you've got a right to be angry and you've got a right to keep people like this out of your atmosphere, not breathing your oxygen, not bringing it up every time you're trying to relax and have fun. Not telling you, “Oh, did you see what those two were doing?” Forget all that stuff. Set the boundary. Be real with it. Don't indulge it, because you'll get people who test you like, “Hey, do you want to hear about this?” And you've had two drinks, you're like, “Fine.” And then the rest of the night is you complaining about them. Just don't do it. Just ignore it. You'll realize after a while you do not care, and remember, it doesn't mean anything about you that this happened to you. This is about them and I know that you probably know that, but it helps to hear it. This is not about you. It's about them. This is a lack of character on their part and especially in his part. He seems like a real scumbag.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:30:44] He's a total scumbag. He had a girlfriend already when he was hitting on her at the convention.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:49] Yeah. You dodged a bullet with this guy. He's probably already cheating on Kim. So sorry, but that's the way it is. You dodged a bullet. It hurts, but remember, it's not a reflection on you, it's a reflection on them. Draw that boundary and keep it, and keep in touch. All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:04] Hello, Jordan and Jason. I have what should be a great job. I like most of my crew and work for a pretty great organization. I don't know if you've ever heard the term “Nurses Eat Their Young,” but it's totally true. I had to actually Google that one. Did you hear that one before?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:16] No, I never heard that before.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:18] Ah, it's basically about how new nurses get bullied by people who are already established nurses.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:24] Oh really? That's sucks. Why is that? I wonder. Just the stress of the job. So you got to let it out somewhere.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:32] Could be, they're just trying to break you to see if you have what it takes to like stay on the job, but it's an actual term and so being a nurse sounds like it sucks. Anyway, moving on, I worked for a VP who is totally bipolar. One day she thinks I'm wonderful and the next I think I'm going to be fired. The result has been a super stressful job, made even worse. Yesterday, I received my yearly evaluation and it was terrible, by far the worst I've ever had. We are meeting tomorrow to discuss it. I'm not sure if I'm going to be fired or given a second chance if she doesn't get rid of me, I'm contemplating telling her that I'm going to start looking for another job. Is this advisable? Should I tell her I'm planning to leave or just start looking for an out somewhere else in the organization. I really want to stay in the organization due to my wife's health issues and incredible insurance. This isn't the type of organization that's good at keeping things quiet though. I don't really think I can apply for other jobs without her finding out about it. I feel like I'm caught in a Mexican standoff. Thanks in advance for any advice and keep up the incredible work, To Bounce Or Not To Bounce.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:33] Wow! So I am really not sure how things work in the nursing realm. What I can say is this. One, you need to leave. Even if she doesn't get rid of you, she sounds terrible. You do not need this shit in your life, man. Yeah, like, “Oh, I don’t know what if she fires me?” Good man. She seems terrible. What?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:51] Yeah, seriously. Why would you ever want to work for somebody like that?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:55] Yeah. You got to be looking for an out no matter what. Two, you should start looking for another job, either inside or outside the organization with similar benefits if that's what you need. Three, you might not have the luxury of keeping things quiet, but telling your current boss that you want to leave will likely make things worse. That said, again, I do not know how things go in the nursing world and in your organization. In the corporate world, you'd look for a new job. You get a firm offer in writing, then you'd give your two weeks. Since you're staying in the same organization, it may make sense to make it known to other people that you're looking for a new job, but I still don't see how telling your current VP isn't just poking the bear on this one.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:34] Totally.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:35] Yeah, you're in a Mexican standoff for sure. I like that term. That was kind of funny, funny visual there. I think one of your first steps should actually be to somebody in HR, where you can document the crap that you're dealing with and they are probably by law or policy prohibited from blabbing about it. Further, I'd start documenting all your run-ins with your VP on paper starting right now. Every time she goes nuts, every time she says something terrible, every time she treats you poorly, et cetera, documented. This way if you do get fired, you have a pattern of drama that you've kept note of that will help you in any lawsuit or grievance that you file with the upper management or with HR. You can also show them why you need to be moved into a different position within the organization. Instead of just, “Well, it's time for a change,” or like, “Oh, my boss and I aren't getting along.” You can be like, “Saturday morning at 4 a.m., she burst into my office and started yelling at me about cheesecake. This Sunday, she acted like I was her best friend, asked if we wanted to go to coffee. And then when I said, “Ready to go to coffee?” She said, “You never work. You never do anything. You're a terrible employee.” Illustrate how this person is a nutbag that's going to help you.
[00:34:44] That's a major thing with documenting people treating you badly. By the way, they're not documenting things because they're not saying burst into his office at 4 a.m., overreacted about cheesecake. Asked him to go to coffee and then when he said I'm ready to go to coffee, accused him of always taking coffee breaks and never working. They’re not documenting this stuff. So if you do, you have a major advantage. So take that, start documenting it. Go to HR, start looking for another job internally, and good luck getting away from this crazy person. All right, last but not least.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:14] Dear Jordan, Jen and Jason, the trifecta. I've worked for the same man for four years. Sometimes I've been his only employee and have always worked closely with them. It's been rough going as he exhibits real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde behaviors. I've recognized his attempts at gaslighting me but struggled to push through and ignore it as I'm just not that kind of person that would do anything like that, and I certainly didn't respect that type of behavior. While searching for help and understanding and coping with this work relationship, I came across info on covert narcissists and most everything I heard about their tendencies fit into a T. it really opened my eyes to the fact that I can help him and it will probably never change. I ended up getting fed up with his bad behavior towards others and of course, myself, and no longer wished to associate with them. I'm ready to move on. I even have another job offered that I plan to transition into. My question is about the breakup because that's what it feels like. I'm anticipating his reaction and his objections and plays on my good nature, attempts to make me feel guilty, and I've experienced so much of it before. It sounds silly, but it's like I'm afraid he won't let me quit. I keep imagining the scene and dangerous liaisons when John Malkovich just keeps repeating, it's beyond my control. I guess my question is what's my, it's beyond my control response to this situation or how can I not feel afraid? Thank you, and I tell everyone about your show and how much I love it. Signed, Covert Dependent No More.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:36] All right, so this is definitely someone who has a grip on you. Be careful here. We're actually in the future, we're talking with Joe Navarro, former FBI agent. He does a lot of verbal and nonverbal communication. He's coming on the show soon. We're also talking about narcissists and other dangerous personalities, so I just finished a book in prep for that. Go grab that book in fact, it's called Dangerous Personalities by Joe Navarro. We'll link to that in the show notes. What Joe says in the narcissism chapters is that their behavior does not change. You think it will. They'll tell you it will. It doesn't change. It won't change. So you already know he's going to pull some crap on you to keep you around. You're also asking how you cannot feel afraid. I'm going to say here that you can't not feel afraid. He's really just programmed that into you and that's kind of there to stay, I think for a bit.
[00:37:30] The good news is that your course of action is actually set. You need to accept that new job, get excited about that new job, and then let that excitement push you through with this process. I would also, if I were in your position, write down your exact plan to leave and I mean exact. Step one, accept new drop verbally. Step two, get off on writing. Step three, accept in writing. Step four, tender resignation by email and send a copy by post or email to your attorney at the same time to make it a matter of record, so that he can't say you didn't give them any notice or whatever. Step five, brace yourself when he acts crazy. Step six, get the heck out of there and don't go back to the office without a friend waiting outside or coming with you or whatever. And if you have a plan, it's harder for him to get his claws into you and start abusing you. Further, just be aware that when narcissists lose control, they might get threatening. Its sounds like it's going to be bunk in this case, he has no right to do anything to you. His final temper tantrum is basically going to be the last stand of the narcissist I think, and look, this might sound overly paranoid, but use the voice memo function of your iPhone or your phone to record the conversation with him. And if he starts yelling and going bonkers and threatening, you document what he said on paper, send it also by email to your attorney if you have one. And keep the sound recording someplace. This way, if he starts trying to mess with you after you leave and he probably will not. So relax, you'll have a recording of him acting insane, which will help you prove your case should you ever need to. If he says, “Hey, I'm going to make sure you'd never work. I'm going to tell your new boss that you're a crappy employee. How dare you leave!” Then if your new boss is like, “Hey, I'm getting weird calls from your old boss. He said, you did all this stuff.” You can be like, “Yeah, I didn't want to go this route, but have a listen to this. This is my last conversation with him. When I told him I was leaving.” That way, your new boss will go, “Oh, okay, this is a crazy ass some bitch. I'm not going to take it with good wait here.” He sounds so calm on the phone, and he said, “You stole it from the till and blah, blah, blah.” You show them that craziness. Then it's like, okay, he loses credibility and you don't have to worry as much.
[00:39:37] Again, document everything. Documentation is your friend when you get into situations like this. When in doubt, write it out, and good luck. All right, recommendation of the week, Magic for Humans. Jason, have you seen this at all? Have you checked it out?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:50] I have not.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:51] Basically this magician, the street magician, super interesting guy. It's on Netflix. I've only seen a couple episodes so far. One of them is in -- this is sort of representative of the show. He takes volunteers and he stages this trick and then he convinces this guy that he's invisible, not that the magician's invisible. He convinces the guy that he himself is invisible and the whole audience is in on it. And so they're messing with him and he's like, “Hello, everyone?” And he's touching people and they're like, “Whoa, what is that?” You know, it's really, really funny.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:40:28] That sounds awesome.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:28] So he uses part magic and street magic and then part kind of like, I don't know, I guess comedy improvy type stuff. It's really unique and interesting. Magic for Humans on Netflix. And Jen wanted me to recommend, Shin Lim Magic on Penn and Teller: Fool Us. You can find it on YouTube. This guy is like crazy sleight of hand card stuff. Have you seen that guy?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:40:49] That one I've seen. I've watched fool this all the time and that guy is just incredible. Like just what he can do.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:56] Yeah, he's really, really good. And I keep rewatching and rewatching and rewatching to see what I can catch, which isn't exactly fair because it's magic.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:41:04] Good luck. Yeah, good luck.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:0:41:04] There's a couple of things where I'm like, “Oh, he slid it off the table because the table is black and he's wearing black, so like you can't see this thing slide or whatever.” But even then, one, I'm not sure, and two, like fine, if I've got to watch it 17 times to catch that one part of that thing. You're good at it. You're good, right?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:41:22] You’re good.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:23] Shin Lim will link to that in the show notes as well and Magic for Humans, the Netflix. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget, you can email us email@example.com to get your questions answered on the air. Happy to keep you anonymous of course, and a link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. A quick shout out to Andrew Lopez for offering to help assist the team on Feedback Friday questions, and Blaz Stefe listening in China. Good old friend of mine. Glad to hear that you're listening to the show old friend. I know that's not a Chinese name. He's from Slovenia. He's working on a pretty cool company. I have to talk about that sometime when I figured out what I'm even allowed to say about it, and if you want to know how I managed to book all of these great guests, manage all these relationships using systems and tiny habits, check out our Six-Minute Networking course which is free over at jordanharbinger.com/course. I know a lot of people say, “I don't have time. There's not enough time. I'm going to do it later.” The problem with that, we are not able to make up for lost time when it comes to relationships and networking. The number one mistake I see is with students, entrepreneurs, professionals is postponing this, not digging the well before they get thirsty and once you need relationships, you're just too late and these drills are designed to take just a few minutes per day. It's the type of habit that we can ignore only at our own peril. This is the stuff I wish I knew a decade ago. It's not fluff. It is crucial. You can find all that at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm on Instagram and Twitter @jordanharbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show. Jason, where can they find more of you?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:42:53] You can find links to all my socials over @jpd.me, and you can check out my other podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks. For more info on that, just go to gog.show.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:01] Keep sending in those questions to firstname.lastname@example.org. Remember to try to keep them concise if you can. It really does increase the chance of your question will get answered on the air. Share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got a lot more in the pipeline. We're excited to bring it to you and in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.
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