155: How to Work with People You Don’t Like or Respect | Feedback Friday

Transcript for Feedback Friday | How to Work with People You Don’t Like or Respect (Episode 155)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger and I'm here with producer, Jason DeFillippo. Here on The Jordan Harbinger Show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests.  And this week, we had Adam Grant talking about how we don't know ourselves as well as we think we do. And there's some information about cognitive bias and the way that we view ourselves in there that I thought was particularly interesting, and we had Brian Rose from London Real talking about questioning our dogmas and why we should do so every single day. Of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guest’s and our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations directly with you and that's what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Concise questions are higher in the food chain. It's just easier for us if there's not three screens full of texts. So hopefully you can keep that nice and concise for us. This week, we went to Cesar Milan's ranch. Jason and I did, along with Jen and the whole crew. Great trip. Just a really fun trip to what's essentially kind of like a zoo, a dog-based zoo with llamas and emus and a tortoise and all kinds of stuff.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:09] No, that was a fun trip, man. That was on my bucket list. When I got home that day, I'm sad I didn't get to stay for longer, but man, that was on my bucket list to finally go out, meet Cesar, meet Junior -- Junior gave me kisses when he got out of the truck, which was really cool and it was just a really fun trip. So, it's one of those things that you never think you're going to get to do it, but we did it and it only took five years. Okay. I've been trying to book that show for five years and it finally happened.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:36] It's a great trip down there to LA with some great guests, planning an exciting 2019, headed in New York now for another round of interviews from fun stuff mixed in them. Really getting scared of how cold it's going to be. New York is great no matter what, but it's going to be damn cold.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:49] Bundle up brother, bundle up.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:51] You know it. Jason, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:55] Hi guys, I taught my 13-year-old how to play chess over the last three weeks. She has yet to beat me. Is it better if I let her win once or should she earn the win by her own skill? She keeps getting better, but is starting to dislike losing all the time. Thanks. Tough Love or Take One For The Team.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:08] All right, I've got the perfect answer or so I think. It will keep your young opponent interested without violating the integrity of the game by purposely throwing it, letting her win and kind of making yourself feel a little guilty in the process. Now, there's nothing wrong with letting your kids win occasionally, but I think she's old enough to actually learn that this isn't going to happen a lot. If it's a little kid, it's different, right? She's 13. She's smart enough to play chess. We got some males here. When you sense frustration in your daughter, you know you're winning, you know you're about to win. Do this -- Turn the game board around and then you play her side. She'll play your side. And of course, you can do this all the time. You can do this multiple times per game if you want to. Let her make the decision when to turn the board.

[00:02:55] That's sort of maybe step two, but you can let her choose when that needs to happen. And this will be interesting for you too. You know you're setting some kind of moves up, you've got a whole sequence, the trap that you got going. Now, you can point that stuff out to her and you've got an opponent kind of more or less as skilled as you are that you now have to beat. And the same thing applies to your daughter as well. She's basically playing against someone at her level because with the board switch round, she's playing against herself, right? So all the mistakes are still there that were made prior and everything she was setting up, which she already knows. She can then go and learn how to defeat that. So she's in the learning zone, right? She's still learning. She's on the curve. You can pick up a few things too, such as how to recover and she'll win once in a while and she'll know that she really did win.

[00:03:39] Sure you turned the board, but at least she actually had to figure out how to do it without you deliberately making mistakes. And this trick can apply in other places in life, I'm sure. I'd love to know where, but this is something that I thought would be really interesting. I saw this because I saw this problem and I thought this is really unique, what do chess experts have to say about this so I texted a friend of mine and got this. So credit to my buddy for giving us this interesting strategy on turning the board around, and I think this applies elsewhere outside of chess. So if you're thinking, I don't play chess, who cares? Try to extrapolate this into other situations in life. I think it's a useful exercise.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:14] I really like this tip because it just resets the playing ground as you're going. And I think this is a genius thing. I wish when I was learning how to play chess, my dad would have done this to me because for 15 years he just schooled me over and over again. I haven't got a little bit more resilience than I think the 13-year-old has because I never quit. But it would have been more fun if I would've gotten a board that was kind of set up and I could learn more from it. So I really dig this trick.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:41] Well, I'm glad to hear it. Alright, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:44] Hey Jordan and team. Given my line of work, I've started to be recognized more in public. I'm extremely appreciative when someone recognizes me. However, I feel very awkward for some reason and I'm naturally really outgoing. I try not to let it show, but the crazy part is that I feel more awkward than if I approach someone else that I recognized. I'm truly flattered when someone reaches out to me and I want to help them in any way I can is I can only do what I love because of them. What do you do? What's a good approach when this happens? Also, what's the best way to end the conversation? I'm always genuine and polite and talk to them for a while. However, I don't want to end the conversation in a rude way or be disrespectful. Thanks for any tips. DJ Newbie Celeb.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:26] Nice. Congrats on the higher profile here. So what I do, I run and hide and pretend I'm not Jordan Harbinger. No, this doesn't happen too often. I feel you though. It is a little bit like, “Oh no, what do I do? I've got to live in to all their expectations of who they want me to be.” Right? It's a little bit of a pressure situation. I try to take it as a nice compliment. Someone recognizes you, they're interested in what you do. They're a fan of the show or whatever you're creating. A lot of people work their whole lives and don't achieve that. So it’s nice to finally have that. I think that's really, really fun. Useful. Interesting. Here's what you need to do, right? Be polite. Always. People will assume if you're short with them, even if it's because you're shy or you're in a hurry, that it's because you're arrogant and don't care.

[00:06:12] So you have to be careful, right? So, and even if you're like running down an airport corridor and someone spots you, you can say, “Hey man, I'd love to talk, but I'm late for a flight”, and just keep running and they'll have to understand that. But don't just ignore people or don't say like, “Yeah, whatever. I can’t do this.” It's tempting to sometimes be like, “What? I'm talking with somebody else right now. I'm in the middle of a conversation with my wife.” I'm going to shoot you a smile and then turn back to my wife. You can't do that right? The bar of what is polite is higher for you now and you only get one chance to impress upon that person that you're not a D bag. Even if they expect you to be from your video or if their hopes are really high that you're going to be awesome and friendly,

[00:06:49] you know the bar is now higher. So what I usually do is even if I'm in a hurry, I'll say, “Yeah, shoot me a note any time on social media or email and let me know how I can be of service.” You probably won't get anything unreasonable in your inbox if you say, “Hey, shoot me a note sometime and say hi, whatever.” Most people won't do it. They'll say that. I've even had people say, “No, I'm not going to bug you with that.” When I was in Las Vegas, somebody walked by in the Hard Rock Casino and went, “Whoa, Jordan Harbinger!” And I said, “Well, Hey man.” And he goes, “You know, I just want to shake your hand. I love your show, all this stuff.” And then I said, “Hey, I've got to run but shoot me an email.” And he goes, “No, no, it's okay. I don't need to do that. I know how busy you are.”

[00:07:26] And I thought that was really cool, but a lot of people would expect you to then be able to answer, and since I do answer my social media, I don't have a problem with that. You won't get somebody in there who's like, “Hey, can you do this totally unreasonable thing for me?” I've rarely get that. If you do get that, you can just say, “Hey, that doesn't scale for me, but I'm glad you're a fan of the show.” Always, always, always be more polite than you think you need to be. Even if you're in a hurry, you have to be on the ball and look, enjoy the success. This is a small price to pay for being recognizable, and real talk -- It's only going to happen occasionally. Even if you're a massive YouTube star. Most people aren't going to care or know who you are, so just enjoy the recognition that you're getting now. Consider it a compliment and make sure that you put your best foot forward by giving people attention, even if you don't have that much to spare.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:13] I've got to back that up. I used to be famous long ago back in the old dot com 2.0 days and yeah, be as nice as you can possibly be for the time that you have to offer and just say exactly what Jordan said, “Email me, hit me up on Twitter or whatever. We can talk later, but right now man, I got to go.” And if you do start and talk to them, just say, “Hey look, I got to get to a meeting. I got stuff to do. I'm sorry, but it was great to meet you. It was fantastic to meet you. I'm so glad you're a fan of the stuff that I do. I really appreciate it because it's people like you that keep me doing what I do. Thank you so much for being a fan, but I got to run. You know they're not going to wait for me. Got to go.” And you can really kind of get out for that because then they understand that, “Hey, you're doing the thing that is what you're famous for to be talked about in the first place.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:59] It's all right. Yeah. I think the key here is just knowing that if you're short with anyone, they're never going to go, “Oh, he was in a hurry.” I mean, many people will.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:09:07] Never be short. Never be short.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:09] Most people will think, “Oh, I get it. You're too cool.” “Oh, I get it. There's somebody more important in the elevator at this cocktail mixer. Fine.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:09:16] Yeah. I made that mistake a couple times and was short with people and then just got harangued for it and it's hard to recover from. It's really hard to recover from. Even, you know, always be as nice as you can possibly be because now that you have any modicum of fame, that's the price tag. You have to be as nice as you can possibly be, even if you're just like, “Man, I got a piece so bad right now that I can't even talk to you.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:43] Yeah. I will actually say that kind of thing too. Like if I'm feeling shy or something, which happens to me all the time, I'll be like, “Hey, no disrespect. I really have to go to the bathroom right now. But it was really great meeting you and I'm sorry to cut it short but I really need to go.” And they're like, “Oh yeah, you go ahead. Go ahead.” Because everyone's had to do that. But sometimes I'll even say, “Wow, I'm feeling really shy because a lot of people are talking to me right now. It's good to meet you though. And I got to run.” Like that's polite enough. You know, what I will say, you know it's funny, Jason is, my agent, I talk with them a lot about this kind of thing. And I talk with a lot of media companies and distribution companies and production companies and all this kind of stuff.

[00:10:21] They've told me most of the time, celebrities are actually really cool. Like the people you see on TV show, the people you see in movies, there's obvious exceptions. They're newsworthy, essentially. But the people that are the biggest dicks I've heard are online influencers, YouTubers, social media stars. I've heard from numerous parties in all areas of the industry that the toughest people to work with, the most entitled divas, tend to be the social media influencers. And it's not because they're bad people, it's because they're freaking 20 or 19 and they're getting all this attention lavished on them. Whereas a “real celebrity” who's in film and has been doing 20 years worth of stuff like THE Val Kilmer, you know, he's been famous for so long, for so much. He's learned how to handle it, and he's 55 or whatever, right?

[00:11:12] Whereas the 20-year-old who got famous last year because they put a sex tape online just has no clue how to deal with this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:19] Yeah. Because the older guys know how hard it is to get that fame and keep that fan. They haven’t put in the sweat equity, you know these kids who just like Insta-famous don't have any clue what it generally takes to actually make it to the top of your field. So, I'm with the main celeb guys. I grew up around those guys when I worked at Paramount. So I learned a lot from them and they are the most generous people with their time. They will stop and talk to any fan as long as they can, as long as it doesn't stop them from doing the thing that makes them famous. Like, “I got to get to the set right now because. you know, I'm

[00:11:54] on call but it was fantastic to meet you here. Let's take a quick selfie. I got to run.” You know, and then they'll take off, but they are generous with their time and they are nice to everyone. And that's the way it is. The one thing you don't do, because we mentioned going to the bathroom -- Never follow somebody that is famous into the bathroom. Ever.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:14] Does that happen? What am I? I was about to say, does that happen? Of course it happens.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:17] It happened to me multiple times. I'd be talking to somebody at a conference because I was like a speaker or something I'd done, got an award or something. Like I said back in the web 2.0 days when I was Mr. Programmer dude, people would follow me into the bathroom and talk to me while I'm trying to take a leak and I'm just like, “Dude, do you understand how inappropriate that is?” That is just, it's weird. Why are you doing that? I'll talk to you when I come out, but man, don't follow me to the bathroom. That's just gross.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:45] To be fair, you are famous in the tech scene, so no surprise that you had some luck.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:51] Yeah. People with no social skills.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:53] Yeah, I was going to go down that road. It's not, you know, not everyone is like that of course. But there's a reason like, and look though, of course it happens with movie stars and other celebrities too because people want to get autographs. I remember when I was with Aerosmith once, like a long time ago when I worked at a movie theater, I had to escort them in and out of this movie theater. I was probably like 17 and people were hiding behind things in the parking structure and like in the concession area.

[00:13:19] And I was like, “You got to get out of here. You can't like attack this customer.” And it was girls from my high school and they're like, “Come on!” And I thought, “Wow, you deal with this literally everyday. Holy cow.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:30] I went out and hung out with the Googoo Dolls one night in Chicago and it was like New Year's Eve and their security had to go in, clear the bathroom so John could just go in and take a leak because people would hide in the stalls when they knew he was in the restaurant and wait for him to come in and then jump out and try and get an autograph or something.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:48] That's the creepiest thing in the world.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:49] Oh it's so creepy. Because at first I thought it was, I'm like, you're so arrogant that you have to go pee by yourself. And then they told like, I got to be friends with the bodyguards and they're like, “Dude, you have no idea this stuff we've seen. It's crazy.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:01] You hear stories about like Snoop Dog going somewhere and someone will come out of the, you know, like the drop ceiling. Women will be hiding up in the drop ceiling and they'll try to go down on him while he's like in the john. It's insane. Like all kinds of crazy people come out of the woodwork. Darren Brown had some stories about that too. I'll spare you.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:21] Yeah. Okay. Let's move onto the next.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:23] Yeah. Let's move on. Next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:24] Hi Jordan. I'm a science technician at a large university and I regularly go out to remote field sites. Three years ago, my boyfriend was diagnosed with cancer. He went through five major chest surgeries with painful after effects, many doctor visits, but miraculously he remained mobile up until about four days before he passed away. -- Yeah, this is terrible. -- This was two years ago. While he was sick, I was literally watching my best friend's body disintegrate before me in truly horrific ways. Yes, I do therapy and I haven't had PTSD symptoms in about a year. Shortly after he was diagnosed, I was scheduled to do a 30-day long field expedition in a location that only has one flight out per week in terrible weather that often grounds the flights. Since the doctors had rescheduled his surgery multiple times due to concerns about anesthesia, I didn't feel comfortable leaving with the possibility that his first major surgery might happen while I was away. Had something gone wrong, I may not have been able to get back for many days. I told this to my newly hired supervisor who replied with, “I saw him last week and he looked fine to me.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:27] Wow. What an A-hole.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:30] Oh dude. It gets worse. “Are you exaggerating to get out of work?” And finally, “Since you aren't married, I'm doing you a favor by giving you any time off at all.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:39] Oh, immediate throat punch. I'm sorry. We're worth it. Worth it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:44] That'd be a K bar to the trachea right there. While legal in my state, it's still inexcusable on a human level. No shit. I have a feeling that this person is more incompetent than he is malicious. I switched groups for a variety of reasons and no longer work for that person. Fast forward two years, I'm in a different department, but I was invited to be in a committee that this former supervisor is also on. This committee is a valuable learning experience and I care about the work. The problem is that this former supervisor who has been referred to by others as the dunce in the corner will benefit from the work I do on the project. I find myself avoiding doing much work on the project because I don't want to help him. -- Yeah. Wonder why. -- What advice do you have about working with someone you don't like or respect? Sincerely, Don't Want To Help An A-hole.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:35] Wow. Well, I have some experience working with people that I don't respect and they have no clue what they're doing. And you know, I will say that working in another company where I did the vast majority of building that company and working in that company, I don't regret it. I know that sounds crazy, but I don't regret it. I built my own skills. I built my own brand. I was able to build up a lot of experience and I'm not just saying like, “Oh, I have experience on it”, like I learned so many things that I would not have had the opportunity to do if not for that entire situation. Could the other people have been less crappy? Yeah, but I can't control them and you can't control this guy. The dunce in the corner can try to take credit, but the end of the day, if everyone's calling them the dunce in the corner, everyone knows otherwise. Everyone knows he didn't do it, so he benefits.

[00:17:26] So what? It's not like you're his assistant and he's taking credit for all of your projects. If it's a group and everyone's like, “Yeah, we did a great thing”, and then there's this idiot who doesn't help at all and drags everyone down but “Hey, look group, we won. We did this great thing.” Make your concerns known to the group because who knows? Maybe it's possible to get him out if he's costing the group talent like you. If you say, “Look, I don't know if I can be on this committee because here's what happened with this guy. He's just such…”, and people might go, “You know what? I've got a story like that too”, and if you've got five people on a 10-person committee who all think this guy's just a complete A-hole, maybe there's somebody who can say, “Hey, why don't we move the dunce to a different committee? You know this guy is toxic.”

[00:18:06] The problem with situations like this is a lot of people go, “Oh, I'm just going to be quiet. I don't want to make waves.” And so idiots like this who would just have no social skills, who are just incompetent jerks, they can sit in positions forever. Especially in universities where they're getting promoted based on seniority and things like that. Or you can go with it and don't worry about who gets the credit. Especially if everyone knows he's an idiot in the first place, but if you can't get him out, it's a choice between the work and making sure this guy doesn't benefit in some way. It's up to you. But I would probably choose the work and not worry about who benefits because this is your experience. This is your learning. And yes, you're feeling some resistance because you don't want him to benefit.

[00:18:47] But that's something you should work through if you care more about the work than about showing him who's about -- because remember, he's not learning a lesson here, if you don't do the work. He's not learning anything probably regardless. So I helped people through my old company, I helped a lot of people come through the boot camps. I had zero help with a lot of the tasks in the company. I had to put out a lot of the fires. I had to do a lot of the guidance. It was worth it. It was still worth it to have helped the people that the clients, the people that worked with me, you listeners -- that was worth it. And that came with me for the most part anyway. A lot of those clients, a lot of those listeners, I don't regret it. Even though I'm in the middle of litigation with these schmoes, I don't regret it. Even now. I really don't.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:33] Yeah, because the entire time, you're still growing as a person even though they're not.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:37] Yeah, exactly. I don't care if they're going out and getting wasted. Like none of that stuff bugs me. Even in the moment I just thought, “Screw it. I'm getting what I need from this experience.” You know? And eventually I'll shift. And that's exactly what happened. It was, you know, the timing was a surprise. The rest of it wasn't, I should say.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:56] This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:59] This episode is sponsored in part by HotelTonight. I've been using this app forever and it's a great place to snag really amazing hotel deals. So you've got to try this out if you use hotels at all. If you have the luxury of booking a little bit in advance, of course you can use the app for that too. It's not just immediately tonight, but it's great for that as well. If you want to get away this winter – Imagine, you're on a beach cocktail in hand, sun shining, Mexico to Hawaii. HotelTonight has you covered and even some smaller stuff, it's not just big cities. I mean you can find some really surprising deals in here as well and forget scrolling through never ending lists of hotels. HotelTonight shows you a select list of really good deals at cool hotels you actually want to stay at. So you're not going to find the roach motel that's on some of these other apps and even though the name's HotelTonight, like I said, you can book in advance. And if you can't get away now, book something to look forward to to start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels. Go to HotelTonight.com or download the app and use the promo code JORDANH to get 25 bucks off your first eligible booking. That's HotelTonight.com or grab the app and use promo code JORDANH to get 25 bucks off your first eligible booking.

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Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:22] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit JordanHarbinger.com/deals. And if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review on iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, head over to JordanHarbinger.com/subscribe. Now, let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:46] All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:47] Hey, J, J and J. I'm a teacher and I've been selected as my high school graduation speaker. I want to give a speech like a pro. I want to crush it. Any tips for speaking in front of 2,500 people -- parents, students, bosses and fellow teachers? I would appreciate any advice. Keep crushing it. You guys rock. Signed, Not Ready For Ted.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:06] All right. Well, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, but that goes without saying. There's something called blocking, which is what most people will never rehearse when they speak. First of all, you should script the entire thing. I know that goes contrary to a lot of wisdom. You should absolutely script the entire thing. You don't have to be married to the script when you deliver it, but don't be like, “Oh, I'm going to go over these bullets.” Script absolutely every single element of this speech. Blocking is your movement around the stage. This should be rehearsed along with the script. So it's like walk three steps forward, deliver this part. Walk a little bit to the side and to the right, deliver that part. Hand gestures, all that stuff should be rehearsed. That is what makes for a great speaker. You can break all these rules later, but the second you're like, “Oh, go over here and talk. Go over there and talk.”

[00:23:53] That's when you end up pacing nervously looking weird, excessive or no hand gestures. All this weird stuff happens on stage that you weren't expecting. When you script and you rehearsed and you've rehearsed the blocking, film yourself doing the rehearsals and then break the video down hard because a lot of people won't film themselves and they'll go, “I did great! I walked over here, that felt good. That felt like I knew what I was doing.” And then you look at the tape and you go, “Oh shoot. That's what felt good to me. That looks terrible.” So the vid, the tape don't lie. You might interpret what you're seeing a little more harshly than a coach, but the tape don't lie. And that leads me to my next point, which is get a coach. If you're really serious about becoming a great speaker, I have the bomb speaking coach.

[00:24:38] I'm happy to refer anyone to Michael and Amy Port directly. They are absolutely amazing. I went from, “Yeah, I'm kind of good at this”, to people being like, “Okay, we need to book you immediately.” It's legit as hell. You will be a great speaker afterwards. You can also go to Toastmasters. However, in my experience, that's it. That's kind of like, it's a volunteer-type thing. The dues are really low. It's a lot of people practicing. You're going to get far less attention and I know I'm being controversial here, sorry Toastmasters, but in many ways, the blind leading the blind.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:11] Yeah. That's why I haven't gone back. I I did it for a little bit and it was just like amateur hour. Unfortunately, I hate to say that because I know some people that came out of there with you know, some skills but for the most part, exactly, you nailed it -- It is the blind leading the blind. They don't know what's great or not.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:29] Well, it's not a professional, most Toastmasters, especially the ones I've been to, maybe everyone's different. It's not led by a pro. It's led by somebody else who's been there for two years instead of just one. And when I did it at the University of Michigan, I think I was the only native English speaker in the entire group. So most of the people were like, “I'm trying to figure out how to give a talk in English.” And I was like, “I need to become super dynamic so I can host a show”, that was just not going to happen. You know, people were like, “Oh, you did really well.” And I was like, “Why? Because I can speak unaccented English?” I mean, that's not what I'm really looking for here. My opinion, private coaching is a must. And by the way, no hate on people who are doing, trying to learn something in a second language.

[00:26:14] Speaking, for me, in a foreign language would be very tough. I'm just saying, if you're trying to learn how to really nail delivering your native language, you're not going to get coached by somebody who's trying to figure out how to not stare at the floor, for example. So you have to be among peers. I've taken a lot of speaking classes and unfortunately, I signed up for one, it was like four grand more, and they were like, “Yeah, we're going to make you a dynamic speaker.” And when I got in there, I was the only person in the room who said, “I don't have stage fright.” Everybody else was like, “Yeah, I freeze when I get to the front of a room and I can't even speak in meetings so my boss made me come here.” And I'm thinking, I'm here to crush stages with a thousand people and you're here to run an eight-person meeting? This sucks. So Michael and Amy Port have really been the only coaches that have been able to get me through that. I highly recommend getting coaching. It's a skill you'll use for the rest of your life. If you can't afford it, rehearse 30 times on tape minimum, and break down the tape each time.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:13] And also, Toastmasters is good, if you need an audience where they know that they're going to be. You know, it's like, “Oh, I need to go get the jitters out and there's going to be 50 people here at the volunteer firehouse down the street every first Tuesday of the month, and I can just go stand up in front of them and get the nerves out.” It's really good for that. Yeah, and I used it for that because it's like, “Okay, I'm going to get up and talk and do my thing”, and in front of, you know, all these people looking at you, it's really good for that. But as far as getting coaching on how to be a great speaker, I got zero out of Toastmasters for any tips and tricks. Everybody was just like, “Oh, that was really good. Yeah, great. You got up and you did it.” It's like, “Okay, fine.” But for me, the exercise was to just get up in front of people and talk and get rid of those butterflies. It's just butterfly removal.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:05] That makes sense as well. And bear in mind, if you go to Toastmasters, you're not going to be able to give your 30-minute keynote or your 45-minute keynote. You're going to get five minutes. You can't rehearse it, Toastmasters. It's not going to work. Private coaching, I'm happy to refer you. Shoot me an email, jordan@JordanHarbinger.com if you've got a budget for this. Otherwise, rehearse a minimum of 30 times. I'm telling you, on tape, on tape, and then you will crush. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:28:28] Hello Jordan and Jason. I have a situation that I know I'm not skilled in and I'm hoping you can help. I want to buy a domain that's my name, like JamesSmith.com. Another person owns it, but the website has a GoDaddy landing page, meaning it's not being used. I figured out who owns it though through WHOIS and emailed them a couple of years ago to see if I could buy it. They said that it wasn't for sale. They also happen to mention that they're married and it's their maiden name, so it isn't even their name anymore. I have an alert in GoDaddy to notify me if the domain ever becomes available and every year, I get a notice that says it was renewed. I just got to notice that it's been renewed through 2020. Obviously, this person has attachment to it because it was their name, which I totally get.

[00:29:10] I don't know where or how to start a negotiation. I feel like swooping in with some large dollar amount may piss them off. I'm not sure what else to offer as I totally understand why they wouldn't want to sell it. How would you open up the dialogue to see if there is some way I could get this domain? Also, I should add that if they were using the domain or if it was their current name, I would move on and find a different domain. Should I do that and not worry about getting this domain? Thanks for all you do. Domain-less.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:37] Jason, what do you think? This is kind of your department.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:39] Skip the .com, forget about it. In the old days, .coms were the day rigor top level domains, but nowadays, they're going the way of the Dodo and seriously, nobody cares that it's a .com. What I'd personally do if I needed a new domain today is go to hover.com/jordan and get 10% off your first purchase, by the way. And just do a search for your name with no spaces. They'll give you all the available permutations of all the available TLDs and TLD as a top level domain. Pick the one you like and run with it. For me, my go-to is .me for personal domains if you can get it. That's why my site and my email address is it -- jpd.me. Because the namespace is smaller, nobody's getting these other domain names, you have a better chance of getting, even if you want your initials like I have is great, but it's not worth it to negotiate and overpay for an outdated domain

[00:30:28] when you can get something cooler and for a lot less money. Don't offer a bag of cash. You just wasting your money and it's also a good conversation starter when you're giving out your URL or email address. Like when I tell somebody my email address is j@jpd.me. They're like, “How did you get that?” I'm like, “I just got it. You know? It's cool.” Stick to nontraditional TLDs now because there's so many of them there. There are hundreds and hundreds of them. I think that we're up to like 500 domain, like 500 TLDs now, which is insane.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:56] Yeah, you can get pretty much anything and it still shows up in search. And look, you could get something like iamJasonD, if you want right, .com. If you wanted that, if you really wanted that and then also look, she's not using the domain and so since it's not really in use, you could ask her, “Hey, look, I know you don't want to sell the domain. I won't ask you to, but would you mind forwarding it to my website?” -- which will take traffic that goes there by mistake and send it to your website. That way if people come looking for you, it just sends them to your new site and if she won't forward it for whatever reason, ask if she will at least put up a landing page that says, “Oh, are you looking for so-and-so of XYZ organization? Click here for their website, which is I am so-and-so dot com.” This way she keeps her domain. It's weird, but I get it, and you don't lose traffic. You don't lose search results but yeah, just get another domain and honestly, it's going to be the easiest for the long-term. In my old company, we had a domain that we couldn't get. We had to put ‘the’ in front of it and we use that for a long time and we couldn't get the regular one without ‘the’ in front of it because this old lady owned it and I remember talking with her and she's like, “I'm not going to give it to you because we have had more search traffic for our domain in the last year than we ever have.” And I was like, “Oh my God, people are looking for me, you knucklehead.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:16] Yeah. I was like, “There's a reason for that. Would you like to make some money now? Come on.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:21] So and I was like, “Look, we'll give you a few grand. Your site hasn't been updated since 1991. Nobody's buying your book. It's been out of print for like 13 years.” And she's like, she left me a voicemail, she goes, “You're ugly. I'm never giving you the domain. You're ugly and I don't like your hair.” That’s what she said. And I was like, “Oh she's crazy.” So I waited for her domain to expire thinking maybe she wouldn't be kind of all there enough to renew it and she actually died. And I got it.

[00:32:48] So you can always kill the person that has your domain. That's what I guess that's where I'm going with this. You can always wait it out but seriously, just get another domain. It's not worth it. It's really not. Build another domain and then eventually, you'll get that one cause that person will stop caring after they've been married for 20 years and you can then buy it for a song and you won't care by the time you get it. Honestly.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:08] Yeah. Honestly by the time you get it, it's not going to matter because you're going to have your domain with your name and your email address. I would not ask her to point or to at least use the domain while she still has it. Because if you want to have an email address at that domain and then she lets you use that domain and then one day she just wakes up and goes, “Why am I letting this random use my email?”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:30] Oh yeah. Don't put an email at it. Just have it forward traffic to your site out of courtesy.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you can just have her point it to your new domain, which is, you know, whatever TLD you pick. But yeah. It's funny that you had an old-lady-dying-domain story. I had the same thing. My first domain, I had to get spewww.com, spewww.com because there was an old lady in North Carolina, in a trailer park with a lot of cats that had her cat site up. In 1993, she bought the domain. She was tech savvy enough as a cat lady in a trailer park in North Carolina to own her own domain, which I thought was impressive. I gave her kudos for that, but yeah, when she finally died, then I got my domain that I wanted.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:13] You know, what’s funny, the old lady that owned that domain I needed was also in North Carolina.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:17] Really?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:18] Yeah. How random.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:19] Maybe it was the same woman. Oh, actually, no. Mine died before yours. I know your story, my bud.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:26] Oh, two crazy old ladies and the same in North Carolina. Who would've thunk it? All right. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:32] Hi Jordan, Jason and Jen. I'm a performer and I occasionally get hired for events from top name companies. These companies usually find me on Yelp or through some basic Google searches. Since I have pretty good SEO, the clients are always happy, love the service and have nothing but positive feedback for me. At the end, I usually mentioned off-hand that I have a Yelp page and I tell them to feel free to share my information with anybody they think would enjoy a similar performance. Since my events are typically a one-time thing and don't leave room for repeat business from the same customers, I want to know what's a good way for me to ask for referrals. While the right people do occasionally find me independently, I'd imagine that these people share networks with comparable individuals in other companies and it would be great if they spread my name around more. I always feel tacky asking for referrals and I'm not sure the proper way to do it. Any help would be appreciated and thanks for everything. Sincerely, A Referral Please?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:27] So here's how you can ask for referrals. Check in with the person who booked you. Ask if the show went well. When they say they loved it, ask if you can get referrals later in the week. Don't ask right away. I mean if they’ve got someone for you right away, great. But if you say, “Hey, can I get referrals from you?” They're going to go, “Ah, let me think about it.” And then they're going to blow you off. If you say, “Let me get referrals from you on Thursday. I'll call you in the afternoon at 4:00 PM.” If you get their buy in and permission to do so, then you're so much more likely to get referrals this way. Many people won't want to actually schedule a call because it does take up their time or they'll go, “Uh, I don't know if I actually have anyone, I'll keep you in mind.” So if they don't want to do that, at least they know then you're serious about getting referrals. And you can also see if they'll let you collect info from attendees. Look, if it's a kid's birthday party, probably not, but if it's a gathering of some other type, you can put people on your emailing list just by having a clipboard that gets passed around. And then when you do that, you can occasionally send special discounts for people, especially if they just get signed up to your email list. The way that you're putting them on. You can say like, “Hey, this special rate for me, since you came to one of my other events.” They may forward that email to a friend as well.

[00:36:36] And I highly recommend the Six-Minuted Networking course. This generates a lot of opportunity for me. It generates a lot of referrals for a lot of people who are in it as well. JordanHarbinger.com/course is where that's at. And by the way, Jen checked out your Yelp and you need to include better photos in your Yelp. So have a photographer come to an event with you, have him take professional photos and videos for Yelp and Google reviews and Trust Pilot and all those places. Because anything super amateur on there, you can get beat out by somebody who just had somebody take decent headshots, decent photos of the performance. It really does add a layer of professionalism that generates trust. It's better to not have any photos at all than to have bad ones, generally. So make sure you have all of that in line as well. And frankly, I'll plug HostGator here as a sponsor, hostgator.com/Jordan. If you don't have a website, which I couldn't find. If you don't have a website that has photos and testimonials, that's what's going to generate referrals, not just asking. Somebody has got to have a place to send people and say, “Who is this guy? What does he look like? Where are the testimonials? Where are the photos of the events that he's doing? Does this look like what I want?” That will set you up in the 95th percentile compared to everybody else in that niche. All right, what's next?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:37:48] Hi Jordan, Jason and Jen. Thanks to your show and Six-Minute Networking course. I've recently started re-engaging with old contacts, both personal and work-related, and I never realized how many people I've come across over the years. Many of them have been responding to me and it feels great to know that people are also interested to know what I've been up to -- so thanks, guys. I do have one issue at the moment that I need advice on, I've re-engaged one of my mentors that I met online during my university years. He's in a profession that I'm highly keen on exploring. The reason I contacted him was to see whether there are any new job opportunities or just see how it's like to work in his profession. We've been sending emails back and forth, but all we've talked about is that I'm working at a specific company at the moment and him telling me that he's been working on several projects at this stage. The last email I sent him was to ask him

[00:38:35] whether he was interested to catch up over a drink or a meal sometime soon. I haven't received a response back for about two weeks now. I know he could be busy, but I have a feeling that maybe I should have gotten his contact info first so that I could call him for a chat when it's most suitable for him. What do you think? Is there a way I could reengage the conversation with an email or would it be awkward? Appreciate your time and help. Yours truly, Paranoid Pen Pal.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:01] Okay. So at the risk of sounding important, the truth is if someone asked me to catch up over a drink or a meal, the truth is that I barely have time to have a meal with my own family and friends. So I'm not going to meet up with somebody that I haven't seen in ages who's not a close connection, just not going to happen. It would be a waste of time. I'm so busy that it had to be an offer that's worth it for me and my wife to go and do that. It's just, I mean, even on weekends, I barely cut out a couple of hours to watch something with my wife. I'm usually working. So you have to make sure that you're in that category. So I understand why he didn't respond. He was like, “Uh-oh!” You went from, “Hey, how are you? Just checking in,” to “Hey, dedicate two plus hours to me while I'm probably going to make a request that you don't want to grant.” So you really jumped the shark on that one. And I think you have to identify a need of his before asking for something like this. There's no value. What's in it for him? The answer is I don't know, probably nothing and it's probably going to be painful.

[00:40:01] So I would say no to that too. He just didn't want to say no. You actually have your answer. He didn't forget. He just doesn't, he's not interested. So you need to go through the process of identifying needs. Find out what he's doing, see where they need help, where they need opportunity, where they need connections. This is your job to elicit that by looking at what they're working on, looking at the industry they're in, finding out what they need, offer to book them on a panel, offer to book them as a speaker at an event, if that's something they do. Help them with the presentation. Six-Minuted Networking actually has all these stuff in there. So I'm hoping that you went through the whole thing because it's in there. And you can also ask for an informational interview in his office. Not over lunch, not somewhere where he has to go and meet you. You can go and meet him. There should be no social time spent on this. Go to office hours only. If he's academic, if he's a professor, he probably has office hours. See if you can get in on that eventhough you're no longer a student. That time he's actually dedicated to helping people with stuff like this or not like this. You don't want to ask him for time outside of that. He probably already thinks, “I already dedicated office hours. Why is this guy want to have lunch?” It just doesn't make sense. I totally get where he's coming from. So try some of these other things like eliciting a need and figuring out office hours and you have a much better chance of getting together in person. That said, why do you want to get together with him in person? You got to figure out why that is, because if you're going to just ambush him with some requests, you need to not do that. You need to give value first.

[00:41:27] This is what Six-Minute Networking is about, guys! JordanHarbinger.com/course. All right. Last but not least.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:41:33] Hey guys, I'm in my thirties, single and would love to go on dates to meet people. I hesitate to do online dating sites because I have a chronic illness and it makes me feel insecure about meeting new people. I don't know when it's a good time to tell someone about my challenge or what's the proper way to communicate it, especially since it's such a private matter. What do you think I should do? Should I just share it on the first date, the third date, or when I'm actually in a relationship with that person. Thanks. Don't Want To Be Alone Forever.

Jordan Harbinger: [42:02] Okay. Well, the pros and cons here are the first and third date disclosure. When you're in a relationship, it's unfair to drop some of the things on someone like this. It's a little late, I think.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:42:13] Yeah.  A little too late.

Jordan Harbinger: [42:14] Yeah. And also, not only is it unfair, but I think if someone goes, “By the way, I have this thing I didn't tell you about.” Now that we've been dating for three weeks, I'd be like, “Wait, what? What else is there that you haven't disclosed? That's really kind of shady.” So that's way too late. Look, let's say you have irritable bowel syndrome or something that's kind of embarrassing that you don't want to disclose. It's chronic. Third date is fine. You need to show your cards if you want to build any sort of relationship on a foundation of honesty. If you're doing this in a relationship, you're just asking people to break up with you because you lied.

[00:42:46] Or for some other pretext. The first date though might be a bit TMI, right? And then you're defined by your illness. Like, “Oh, I liked her, she was cool, but then something about this chronic disease, I don't know.” Sure, that's unfair. Geez, it's not fair. Life's not fair. You have to sell people that you are great and that you click with them and then you can tell people about whatever issue you've got and they can decide if they like you enough to deal with it or not. That's just the way it is, so I know that that's not ideal. It'd be great if you could just disclose everything right up and people would be non-judgmental and it'd be great. Sure if it was fair to everyone to just wait until they were madly in love with you and they'd be like, “By the way…”but that's not fair to them either. It really isn't. So you really have to take that balance. I think the third day, it’s a good time to do that because that's when people are starting to decide, am I more attached to this person? Do I like this person? Do I want to be exclusive with this person? That's when all the cards have to come out on the table.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:43:42] If your condition is an STD, then you need to say it before you sleep with a person. Period. I had that happen to me. I was dating a girl for quite some time and then we had slept together for quite some time. Then she got a flare up of her thing and then she's like, “I can't come over. I've had a flare up.” And I'm like, “Oh, what are you talking about?” She's like, “Have you seen the commercials for Valtrex?” And I'm like, “Oh, you got to be kidding me.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:06] You're like, “How’re your hemorrhoids? Wait, what? No!”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:09] No, not that one. And you know, of course the relationship was over at that point because, you know, the first night before we slept together I said, “Hey, do you have anything that you need to tell me before we, you know, go get busy?” And she's like, “Nope.” And I'm like, “Okay, let's go.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:27] Looks down her pants and is like, “No, I think I'm good right now.” Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:29] So it's one of those things where you can't wait until you are in a relationship to tell somebody these things because the trust will be immediately broken. Unfortunately, I had to go, you know, deal with a bunch of blood tests and I came back clean. You know, practice, good hygiene. But yeah, it was one of those things where it's like, “Okay, you lied to me. You are out. You are completely out.” So yeah, do not wait until you're in a relationship to. And even if it is, you know, not that severe, but you should still be honest upfront. So time is right. Third date maybe fine, but not in a relationship. Period. Ever.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:06] That's right. I'm with you. I think that's really crappy that she did that to you. You almost ended up with the herp, dude.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:12] Oh man. Oh God. Yeah. And, yeah, I lost like a week of work just from stress. I'm just like, what? I've never had that happen to me before and I was just like, “This is insane. I trusted this girl. I love this girl.” I thought, you know, maybe she was going to be the one and nope. Complete liar.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:27] Wow. So you are doing it for a long time and then suddenly it was like, “By the way, I have the herp.” Ugh.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:32] Yeah. Pretty much every day for a month.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:35] My God. That's terrible.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:38] I got lucky though.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:39] You dated only for a month, and you were like, you thought she was the one?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:42] Oh, she was really cool and her kid was really cool. You know, she had a really cool kid and I'm just like, you know, I thought maybe this might be like a relationship that I could really get into.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:52] How old were you at this point?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:53] I was 37.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:54] Dang!

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:55] So I was about 10 years younger.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:58] The fast mover dude.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:00] She was great, man. She was great, except for the whole part where she lied to me the entire time and could have given me the herp.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:07] Yeah, oof! Oh my gosh. All right. By the way, pro tip, I was asking somebody the other day what their phone number was and they gave me their phone number and I thought, great. And then I looked at his wife who was there and she goes, “Oh yeah, I totally forgot that that's your phone number because I never have to use it. It's just in my phone.” And I thought, “Wait, wait a minute. You don't know your husband's phone number by heart? How is that possible?” And I realized a couple of other people at the dinner, they also didn't know the phone number of their significant other and I thought, “This is crazy”, because Jen and I, we memorized and quizzed each other on each other's phone numbers for the first few months of dating because I thought, for sure, there's going to be a point at which my phone dies and I have to call her to help me with something or pick me up or

[00:46:51] have somebody else called her, you know, because my phone is broken or dead. And I can't believe how many people don't know phone numbers, key phone numbers in their life. It's unreal.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:47:02] That's funny. I mean it sounds like the worst date ever. “What's my phone number?” “Oh, how's the sushi?”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:07] Yeah, exactly. Well, we were dating for awhile and I was like, “What's my phone number?” Or I'd be like, you know, you're at Rite Aid and it's like, “Enter your phone number.” And she's like, “You do it.” I'm like, “Oh yeah, okay. Four one five blah blah.” You know, like you've got to do that kind of thing. And so it's not just in the middle of everything. What's my phone number? Although we did do a little bit of that too, but you should really know this. I can't believe people don't know their significant other's phone number. That, to me, is nuts.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:47:32] It's funny, I don't even know my roommate's phone number. If I got hit by a car, I could not call her if my iPhone broke. It is funny, this whole thing happened when everybody got their first cell phone. My first cell phone was a little Nokia, you know that brick phone back in the day and as soon as I got that, I never remembered anybody's phone numbers ever again. You used to be able to tell me your phone number once and I would remember it forever. And it's just one of those parts of the brain that people turn off and you just don't do it anymore. Nobody does that anymore, so this is a good tip. I should probably do that. I think I'll get on that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:04] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget, you can email us friday@jordanharbinger.com to get your questions answered on the air. Will always keep you anonymous. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at JordanHarbinger.com. Quick shout out to Cesar Milan, and of course everyone at the Dog Psychology Center. We just had a fantastic day there. Everyone there was awesome and super nice and I'm excited to release that episode. So special thanks to everyone down there at the DPC. Go back and check out the guests, Adam Grant, Brian Rose. Those are great episodes this week. If you haven't checked those out yet, please go back and check those out. You don't know yourself as well as you think you do.

[00:48:40] If you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships using systems and tiny habits, check out the free Six-Minute Networking course over at JordanHarbinger.com/coures. And of course, you're going to do it later. I know you. Yeah, you're so busy right now. Dig the well before you're thirsty. The number one mistake I see people make, and these are in my inbox all the time, “How do I do this? How do I do that?” The answer is relationships that you didn't create yet because you were “too busy”. You cannot make up for lost time -- JordanHarbinger.com/course.

[00:49:13] I'm also on Instagram and Twitter, @JordanHarbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show, and I’m JordanHarbinger.com/youtube. That's where the video interviews are and almost every interview we do now is going to be on video, hence forth. And there's a lot of other bonus stuff in there as well – Clips, behind the scenes. JordanHarbinger.com/youtube. And Jason, tell them where to find you.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:49:34] You can find me at my personal website, that's at jpd.me. Told you, I've got that .me domain, and you can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks over at gog.show, also not a dot com. So, you can check that out there or your podcast player of choice.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:48] This show was co-produced with Jen Harbinger. Show notes for this episode are by Robert Fogarty. Keep sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Remember to try to keep them concise, if you can. It really does increase the chance that your question will get answered on the air. Share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got a lot more in the pipeline. We're very excited for what we got coming up. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time. Have a great weekend you all.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:50:18] The hit podcast based on the Emmy nominated a A&E series, Cold Case Files is back with new episodes on PodcastOne. Listen to powerful stories of crimes almost forgotten by the passage of time with interviews of the people involved as investigators shine a new light on these cases and bring those responsible to justice. Download new episodes of Cold Case Files every Tuesday on PodcastOne or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.