68: When Is the Perfect Time to Have Kids? | Feedback Friday

Transcript for When Is the Perfect Time to Have Kids? | Feedback Friday (Episode 68)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger, and I'm here with producer, Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger Show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests and this week we had Guy Winch talking about this science of heartache, how to be the right type of support, why our autopilot response that our emotional wounds use to try to heal themselves so that our mind uses to try to heal emotional wounds is actually not the way to go. A lot of insight into the science of heartache on that one.

[00:00:28] We also spoke with Allen Gannett about the creative curve. We demystified creative genius, a little bit debunked the 10,000 hour rule and gave some practicals for increasing our creativity by actually consuming more content, so really interesting episodes that we had going this week. If you miss those, of course, our primary mission here on the show is to pass along our guests wisdom and our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of this show is to have conversations directly with you and that's what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep them concise if you can. It makes things just so much easier for us. And Jason, before we start, are you following this cave rescue at all? I mean it is just.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:12] Yeah, it's harrowing. I've been watching it nonstop. I've got CNN on the background just on mute so I can see when they get more kids out of the cave. It's, it's crazy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:19] It is. I think the whole world is holding its breath and I know that that's dramatic because there's people who are like, I've never even heard of this. Who cares? My life goes on. But for me, I think it has a special sort of place because I, as I've said before on the show, being trapped in a cave is like my worst nightmare. A cave with water. So thinking about these kids in that cave, it makes me like have actual physical reactions to it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:49] Yeah. Especially since they were in there for like a couple of weeks in the dark by themselves before they were even found. Imagine how terrifying that is going to be for them.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:57] Yeah. Imagine you're just there and then, and then what are you doing? You're like, okay, before I get two weeks from starvation, I'm just going to swim for it and then you're going to drown, but you know that you're probably going to almost certainly going to die, so then you're just like, screw it. I guess I'll just stay here starving in week. And then --

Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:14] It's one incredible story.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:16] It is, and then one, imagined what happened when the diver popped up and was like, “Hey, we're looking for you.” And then they're like, “Crap.” He spoke English. Who speaks English, right? But then on top of that, it's raining and there's more water going into the cave and there's oxygen being taken out of the cave. And then one of the Navy Seal divers died going back and forth from the cave. It's just like, it's just unreal.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:41] This reminds me of back in the ‘90s, I don't really remember the, the kid trapped in the well stories course happened. It's kind of like that where the entire country is watching, like hoping they get them out except for some of those that it was just a hoax when the kid wasn't actually in the well, but that's a different story. But this is just, this is incredible.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:59] It's nuts. And so the whole world is watching this that the Thai government is trying to do this rescue. Elon Musk sent over engineers from his boring company to try to figure out ways to drill, and it turns out they can't drill. And then, have you heard about these two guys? They're co they call themselves the ATM or something like that?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:16] No.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:16] And there, one of the dudes is like a firefighter from the UK and the other dude is some sort of IT guy.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:22] Okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:22] And they specialize in underwater cave rescues.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:27] Oh, no way.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:27] It's like a hobby that these guys have had is underwater cave diving and they've gotten so good at it. They've invented a bunch of technology and they heard about this flew out there, imagine asking, “Look, boss, I got to leave.” “We're in the middle of a project. What could be so important?” “I'm the only person in the world other than this other guy who know how to rescue people in an underwater cave. And there's a soccer team trapped in there.” “All right. See you in three weeks.” Like what are you going to do? So these guys flew out there and apparently, that's one of the guys that found the kids.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:00] Oh no way.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:00] And what's even more incredible is those kids are like two and a half miles into the cave. So imagine you're this diver and you don't know what's ahead of you, but you just keep going two and a half effing miles in a cave with your gear. Like you, you don't know what's in this cave. You don't understand -- you don't know anything and you just keep going. I wouldn't have thought to look that far into the cave. I mean, first of all, I wouldn't have even gotten into the cave, but like I wouldn't have even thought to do it.

[00:04:29] And so, oh, it's just so, I just feel so bad. And this is, I don't know what's wrong with people, but their original plan to get these kids out, I don't know if you heard this, was to just wait until monsoon season is over in October.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:43] Oh my God.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:44] So what are these kids going to do? They're going to like bring them a bunch of lights, food, vitamins--

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:49] Hopefully a Kindle.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:50] Maybe a Kindle with a bunch of Tai books on it. I mean, three months in an underground cave that just seems like a not real plan.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:57] They would turn into Gollum.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:58] I mean, so many things can go wrong in three months during a monsoon season when you're trapped in a freaking cave, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:05:05] Right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:06] Like how was that a real plan? So, I don't know. The reason I'm bringing this up on the show is, you know, going through a tough time as this year has been tough for us. Looking at something like that and just going, “Oh my gosh, what am I even -- I'm in my air conditioned house in California for God's sake.” You know, this is so much -- keeping things in perspective is just so much easier. And additionally, I think knowing that there's people going through something like that and they're toughing it out because they have to, is in some ways very inspiring even though I just wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:05:42] Well, some enemies I will.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:44] Yeah, it will be my worst enemy but you know no one else for sure.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:05:46] The interesting thing is by the time you guys hear this, this will have already been finished.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:51] We hope.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:05:51] This is our view when we record this on Monday, so hopefully everything will be a okay by the time this airs. So it will definitely have come to a conclusion by then.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:00] Because there's only what? There's six people left in there still.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:03] Seven.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:04] Seven.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:05] I believe. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:05] Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:06] As of this morning there were seven, they got the fifth person out this morning so they're going to get all the kids out in order of health and then the last person to come out as the coach and the divers, so.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:16] That coach must feel pretty crappy about this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:19] Yeah. That's why he's coming out last. I mean it's one of those things where you're definitely coming out last, dude. If they brought him out like you know, anywhere but last, they would be a lynching going on.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:28] I think they're going to have to have a police escort for that guy.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:31] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:32] For like a month.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:33] Yeah. He's getting, he's going into wheat sack for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:35] Yeah, yeah. And you know what sucks is he's like 23. It's not like he went, screw it. Let's throw caution to the wind. He just did something I think they'd done before. Oh God. Anyway, anyway, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:48] Hey, Jordan and team, a quick note to say, I watched Jordan's interview with Tom Bilyeu a few days ago and something lifted in me. I'm currently going through a disappointment and setback at my job, and I felt like I had a buddy in this. The emotions communicated in your undertones were the same I was feeling and battling. It seems everything is okay when you have a bud going through the same thing with you. Thanks for the rawness. I have a question for Feedback Friday. Well good because this is Feedback Friday. In the impact theory interview, you talked about keeping score and covert contracts. Can you talk about the same but with the feeling quote unquote, “I owe my friend acquaintance or whomever,” I've noticed I'm much more prone to poisoning relationships in this weird way than with someone else owing me. So I think what he's saying is he like you're looking at it from the opposite side thinking that the other person is going to have a covert contract instead of him having one. He's kind of, he's kind of freaked out about that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:40] He or she doesn't want to owe anything to anyone else because she feels like, “Uh-oh, I'm not going to be able to provide.” That's what it sounds like to me.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:48] So yeah. What are your thoughts? I often feel like I can't accept someone else's offered for any help for fear that I will owe them something that I can't pay back.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:55] Oh yeah.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:56] Keep it oozing that awesomeness. It's reaching far and wide. Signed, You Can Keep Your Covert Contract.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:02] Nice. Yeah, this is a great point because I think there are people out there that are like, “Look, I'm not keeping score about what people owe me. I'm worried I won't be able to provide.” So keeping score, just as a refresher course, and this is something we've talked about in Six-Minute Networking, is that you're the type of person, if you keep score that says, well I drove Jason to the airport twice, so he owes me a trip to the airport or he owes me this or he owes me lunch or he owes me, you know this, he has to dog sit for me, something like that. And it poisons relationships, these covert contracts and keeping score. Covert contract being, I think that we have an agreement where I drove you to the airport and so therefore you have to babysit my dog. And then when I say, “Hey, will you dog sit?” And you say, “No, I don't want a dog in my house.” I get mad because I feel like you broke a promise. But we never agreed. And people do this subconsciously all the time.

[00:08:50] So this is sort of a reverse thing, where she or he doesn't really want to owe anyone else anything because she feels I'm just going to stick with she, that she can't pay the favor back. This is kind of normal. It's usually the other way around, like I said, but I would reframe you quote unquote “owing them or having to pay them back.” Reframe that as an opportunity for them, and you'll look for the same opportunity, right? So them helping you, it's an opportunity for them to grow their social capital, so to speak. And for you to help them, same thing. So what we talk about in Six-Minute Networking course is actually that it's good to be able to help other people because it's an opportunity to garner some referral currency, right? It doesn't mean they owe you one. What it means is that you're building reputation, you're building up goodwill. Even if that person never pays you back, you're in gendering enough goodwill, you're building reputation for yourself and you're building a habit of being generous. All of those things are valuable.

[00:09:49] So if you look at this as an opportunity and not an obligation, then you don't really have to worry, “Uh-oh, Jordan keeps driving me to the airport and I can never pay him back because I don't have a car.” That's not something that I'm thinking about and most people are not thinking, “Oh gee, what do I owe this person?” You have to be careful here because if they're making you feel obligated, they're actually keeping score, which means that that's their problem, not yours. The other thing is if you're putting this on yourself, look, I get it. You're nice, but maybe to a bit of neurotic degree here, the reframe of them wanting to help you and getting the chance to do so as a show of friendship that should help you accept their help.

[00:10:27] Additionally, there might be a self-worth issue going on here, so be aware of that and try to figure out what might be going on there. If you think maybe you're unworthy of help or you're devaluing yourself or you're devaluing the help that you can possibly give, look at where that might show up elsewhere in your life because I have a feeling -- when somebody helps me with something and I think, “Oh, I'll be able to get that person back later on if they ever need anything.” “I'm not ever thinking I can never help this person because I'm not useful.” I don't really think like that.

[00:10:59] So if you're thinking like that, this could be a self-worth issue. And a shout out to Tom Bilyeu for bringing this person into our fold here on the show. I was interviewed by him. We're actually going to run that interview as a bonus episode in the feed because I feel like it was good. It got a lot of positive feedback. And if you're looking at the networking stuff, the mindsets, the tips, the tricks, the drills go to jordanharbinger.com/course. Jordanharbinger.com/course, that's where we have a lot of these drills and mindsets for networking and relationship development that are going to help you get really good at this, and create a set of habits and a mindset to really reach out and be useful to your network and build that network.

[00:11:40] Oh yeah. I almost forgot. I actually reached out to my friend, Dan Millman. I don't know if you guys remember him. He's been on the show a few times. He's an author. He wrote a book called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, among other books, among a lot of other books actually. And I was just checking in with them and I was telling them that Jen and I were thinking about having kids at some point, but there's all this legal stuff and we're rebuilding the business and dah, dah, dah, and we're working so hard over here, and we're trying to decide when to start having kids. And I said, I think the answer to this is probably there's never a right time. Am I at least right about that? It seems like a really bad time, but is it going to be any better anytime soon is the question and he gave us a really good response. Jason, you want to read it?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:21] Hi Jordan. Good to hear from you. Doing well here in Brooklyn as I work my way into my final book project, a memoir. Any response to your good question about when to start having kids is a paradox because well, on a practical level, there may seem to be better times to raise children basic stability and locale and financials, and when major schooling commitments are complete and one has some free attention and energy to give to children. On the other hand, as you into it, there is certainly no ideal or right time, physiologically mid-20s to mid-30s probably works best for women, but there are always exceptions. One doesn't have to be totally established in a career. In fact, the birth of a child and children can be a great motivator, giving meaning and purpose to making a good living. Basically despite concerns or doubts, when you start thinking seriously about children, that may be the best time. From my perspective and experience, parenting is both a sacrifice and delight. It's all in the abstract until it's real as you look into the eyes of your baby. Life will never be the same. It's a form of voluntary adversity that will ultimately deepen and enrich your life and humanity. Good journeys, Dan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:28] And I love that response, and so did Jen. And I just think that it really, because everyone has these opinions on it, like, “Oh there's never a right time. You just got to do it.” Or “Oh yeah, you should wait until the, oh well da, da, da.” This is the only one that really seemed very measured and balanced, right? And also from somebody who kind of understands the situation because people who have nine to fives or have a trust fund, they don't have the same perspective on when to have kids because they go, “Yeah, just do it.” You know, everything will fall into place. And I'm like, your dad gave you a $3 million house. I don't know if I should listen to you, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:01] Yeah. Really. Yeah. Measured response there for sure to make sure that you're getting the right advice at the right time. Now I threw in a link, which is one of my favorite pieces of film ever made, which is the introduction to the movie Idiocracy. And if you've never seen it, the link will be in the show notes. And I think that kind of sums up what happens when you wait. So I think you guys should, start now. That's my personal opinion because you've got nine months at least.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:24] That's true. We got nine months at least.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:26] It's not like you start tomorrow and then it's there next week, so you've got some time.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:30] Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, you're right. I probably need to start doing some more hard exercise or something like that to go into the gym is great, but if you'd barely break a sweat while you're there, you know, I got to burn off some extra steam too, just to make sure I'm sleeping well at night enough to be changing diapers in the morning.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:47] Yeah, put it on the calendar. We know nothing gets done unless it's on your calendar. So put making babies on the calendar.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:52] There you go. There you go. All right, next out of the mailbag.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:55] Hi, Jordan and Jason. I'm a 30 year old project manager at a small to medium sized manufacturing company. I'm currently living and working at a smaller city, not a major one, and that's what my email is about. Should I move to a major city? I've read material and seen videos in YouTube and some other websites of people saying there are more and bigger opportunities in the big city, New York City!

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:16] Get a rope! You're were the only people that remember that commercial.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:19] Exactly. So some say that I'm doing well for my age and while I agree, I feel that I still could have done better at this stage, and I feel that the size of the company and city I live in might be a factor. After a business trip to Houston, it felt like this is even more true in that I do much better if I were in a city like Houston. Do you think this is actually true? Is this just a kind of FOMO or perhaps a case of the grass being greener on the other side? Should I just stay and work on possibly getting the next promotion? I feel like every year I hold off moving is another year's worth of opportunity lost. Keep doing what you're doing. I knew the new show will be back on top in no time. Thank you for your response, To Move Or Not To Move? That's just the question.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:00] Look. This going to be controversial, but I would say yes, move if you can.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:16:03] Absolutely. There's a reason that people move to bigger cities for opportunity. There's just always more opportunity. Yes, we're in a digital age. Yes, you can get so many things done at home. Yes, you can network and you can telecommute and you can blah, blah, blah, but if you're around it, there's just something else. It's a different energy. You're going to be in different social circles. In fact, you're always going to be around more diverse groups of people and diverse perspectives in cities. You're going to have coworking spaces, different types of environments where you work, different hours. You'll want to move away from the city again when you get married and have kids. I would imagine so now it really is the time to make this happen. It really is. You're going to find that living in cities offers just opportunity. Just being around it.

[00:16:48] You're going to run into opportunity all over the place just by going to your friend's party and meeting some gal there that is in publicity for some movie company. I mean things like that just happen there that will never happen in a smaller town. It's more fun. You'll get it out of your system. You'll be around different types of work too, which I think is important because a lot of people go, “Well, you know I want to do this thing, and there's not really much of that in the city.” You kind of don't know what you want to do until you're about 30 for most of us, not necessarily for everyone, but for most of us. So you have to be around different types of work because you might find something you like better. For example, you might be a lawyer and going, “All right, well I live in the city and I really like being a lawyer.” And then you go, “Well, wait a minute, I have all these friends that do law for production companies, and that seems really interesting.” So you start doing that and then you go, “You know what? Actually I just want to produce things. Why am I doing the law part? Like I don't need to do that, just because I have a law degree.”

[00:17:42] So things -- your career will migrate in ways that probably don't happen outside of big cities because they're not doing that particular job in that small town, period. And I think that's important to get through when you're young. I really do. I don't think you should pick something because that's what you've always done, unless you're very content doing that, you know? And I feel, Jason, I've talked about this on the show before. There is an element of sort of, I wouldn't even say jealousy, but more of like an envy where I think, “You know, my life would have been simpler if I just thought, I'm never going to leave Michigan. I'm going to get married to somebody that I met in college, live in Michigan, do a Michigan job and just be a teacher or something like that.” I would've been fine with that. But me personally, I couldn't do that. I was too restless. So I had to go live abroad and then I had to go live in New York and then I had to go live in L.A. and then I had to go live in San Francisco, right? That that was my path because I couldn't sit still. So if you're feeling that itch, I would say it's probably not going to go away, but if you really don't want to move and you just kind of feel like you have to, I would still do it for a year, if you can, and see if there's something there for you. Because if you don't do it now, it's going to be hard later, and you might always wonder if you miss something.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:18:55] Yeah, I mean he's a 30 year old project manager at a manufacturing company, so he's not super young, but he's still not old. So he's definitely got time to go get in on the big city. It's like, you know, when I started out, I was 25 and the first thing I did was moved to Los Angeles when I got the opportunity because my dad taught me when I was pretty young, go where they do the thing that you want to do, because if you're not there, you're not going to do it. So if he really wants to get like into the big manufacturing companies and get some really big projects, that's where he's got to go. And I think it, I think definitely right now -- now is always the best time to do something. So get on it, get out it, explore, find out what you want to do, and if you do have to go home because it doesn't fit, then you have the opportunity to go home. But the older you get, the harder it's going to be to get into those jobs and you might miss those opportunities. So yeah, I'm with Jordan. Go! Go for it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:47] All right, well, there you have it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:50] You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show and this is Feedback Friday. Stick around and we'll get right back to the show after these important but very brief messages.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:58] This episode is sponsored in part by HostGator. You have to have your own home on the web. It's that simple. With the ever shifting landscape of social media, people need to be able to find you anytime, anywhere, and I know you think, “Oh, I have a LinkedIn profile. I've got social media.” Yeah, until something changes or your data gets jacked or they changed the config and you hate it. That's why we recommend HostGator's Website Builder. You can easily create a professional looking and feature packed website and the best part there is no coding. Choose from over a hundred mobile friendly templates. Your site's going to look great on any device, smartphone, tablet, desktop. HostGator also gives you a ton of add-ons so you can do things like increase your search engine visibility without being an expert in SEO or integrate with PayPal and allow customers to buy directly from your website.

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[00:21:02] This episode is sponsored in part by DesignCrowd. Crowdsourcing, it's how busy people get stuff done in the 21st century. Thanks to DesignCrowd, you can focus on running your business while handing over the reigns for your company's logo, web design, t-shirt, you name it, to a pool of over 600,000 professional designers from around the world. DesignCrowd crowdsources custom work based on your specifications. You pick the design you like best. It's that simple. So here are the deets. Go to designcrowd.com/jordan then post a brief, describe what you want from the art you need. DesignCrowd then invites over 600,000 designers from Sydney to San Fran to respond within hours. Your first designs will start rolling in. Over the course of three to 10 days, a typical project will receive 60 to a 100 even more designed pieces from designers around the world. You pick the one you like, approved payment to the designer, and if you don't like any of them, you get your money back. So Jason, tell him where to find this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:21:57] Check out designcrowd.com/jordan. That's D-E-S-I-G-N-C-R-O-W-D.com/jordan. People still use forward slashes, I guess. For a special 100 dollar VIP offer for our listeners, or simply enter the discount code Jordan when posting a project on DesignCrowd.

[00:22:13] Thank you for listening and supporting the Jordan Harbinger Show. To learn more about our sponsors, visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers, and don't forget to check out our awesome Alexis Skill. Go to jordanharbinger.com/alexa, or search for Jordan Harbinger in the Alexa app. Now let's get back to your questions here on Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:33] Next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:35] Jordan and Jason. I was listening to the intro of one of the shows and just wondered, when does Jason graduate from producer Jason to co-host Jason?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:43] Never.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:44] I realize my nose doesn't really belong in your businesses business, but I'm noticing that Jason's part in the show is slowly becoming more than just producer in the background and at least to me, his input is always welcome and helpful. Well, thank you very much. I'm loving the new show, and I'm enjoying the freedom you now have to do what you want. All the best, Pushing For A Promotion.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:02] Nice. Well, gee anonymous--

Jason DeFillippo: [00:23:05] I didn't put this one in here. I just want to say I didn't put this one in here. This is not me. No, no, no. This does not come from me. I was very surprised to see this this morning.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:13] Yeah, well there you go. Again, I said never before. I'll say it again. The student must not outshine the master. No, I'm fine. Look, you're basically the co-host anyway. The only reason you don't talk as much it, look, I'll speak for you on this because that's very apropos for this question. The only reason you don't talk as much as because there's a 90 percent chance that your dog is barking. There's a leaf blower going. It's so hot in your studio, you can't move or your face will melt off or you're listening for our pops, crackles, stuff like that. Looking up facts as the person speaks and saying, “Hey is demonstrably untrue. You should say something about that.” Or like, “Hey, you got the number wrong, let's correct it.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:23:50] Or sending you all the funny jokes that I don't get to say.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:52] Right. Sending me all the jokes that that people go, “Jordan, you're so hilarious.” And meanwhile I'm like, “Thanks Jason. You should have said that.” “Nah, I'm good.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:23:58] I don't want to outshine the master. I know my place.

Jordan Harbinger: [0:24:00] But really, I mean you're basically there. I mean you have -- you have that part in the show. He’s not, not allowed to talk. You don't feel that way, do you?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:24:09] Of course not. And I edit the shows, so I can put in whatever I want.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:13] That's right. You could just do a whole bunch of stuff after the fact, and I wouldn't even know until it was too late.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:24:17] Yup. That's how it rolls. No, I'm fine being producer, Jason, I like my title. I am happy to be here, and I love being the co-host on Feedback Fridays, and when it's appropriate on the other shows, I chime in when it's appropriate and when I have something to contribute. So I think producer Jason rolls off the tongue co-host Jason kind of has too many stops in it, so we're just going to stick with producer Jason for now, but thank you so much for the email. It actually made my day.

Jordan Harbinger: [0 0:24:42] Well, there you go. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:24:44] Hello, J and J. I'm a part time YouTuber with a really small channel where I mainly talk about music and music related topics. I really enjoy it, but the success of the channel isn't very motivating and can really affect morale sometimes. I enjoyed the discipline aspect of recording videos and editing them even though I don't get that many views. I'm not saying I want fame or recognition, which this might sound like, it's just the temptation to stop being consistent in quitting that bothers me and how it could negatively affect other areas of my life. I find some sense of accomplishment when I record, edit, and upload. I guess in a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is when I find another avenue I enjoy but the success is delayed. How do I stay motivated to remain consistent and inspire improvement? Much love, View Lists in Seattle. S

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:27] So this is an interesting dilemma but not such a hard conundrum, I don't think, Jason. I mean we did the show for years without even looking at the metrics, and then once you joined, I think you were probably one of the catalysts that said, “Hey, you should look at how many downloads you're getting per episode and then we have a metric we can use and a goal we can go after and all this stuff. I mean that's kind of how we started with it, right? I mean we didn't even pay that much attention to it. And even now while we're building, all we really care is about and focused on is are we growing a little bit at all, right?

[00:26:04] Like we're not really, I don't know about for you personally, Jason, but I am, I'm leaned off the metrics themselves quite a bit now because there's no point in going, we had 300 new subscribers last week. It's just not worth it to sit there and go, why didn't we get more? Why did we only have, it's just not worth it. It's not part of the -- it's not part of the main idea here. Yes, we have to grow, but if you're not going to do this, even if no one's watching, if you're not going to produce videos, even if no one's watching, if you're not going to do a show, even if no one's listening, if you're waiting on other people to give you morale, purpose, you're just going to be waiting forever, and you've got to work on projects you love. Yes, but there is no need to depend on them for a living. Our situation a little different because this is our living, you know, we sell ads, we have products and services, and stuff like that.

[00:26:52] But for now, since it's the beginning of your career, I would say just become the best at your craft. That's what really motivates me right now is working on this until it's so good, people can't ignore you. And I know that people aren't just going to magically find you, but if you're doing all the right things to promote and you're getting better and better and better at your craft, then you don't have much to worry about. It's the people who burn out and fizzle out are the people that go, “All right, I'm going to focus on the marketing and then I have to have something to market,” and so they're putting up, you know, a show every day, but it's the same crap and they do a great job marketing it. They don't really have a steadily growing fan base. They have this sort of a transient fan base, so if you're so good they can't ignore you. By the way, there's a book called So Good They Can't Ignore You by my friend Cal Newport who is awesome. You should grab that as well. We'll link to that in the show notes. It's about becoming so good at your craft that later on when it is time to market, it's an easy product to sell, because what you're selling isn't, “Please pay attention to me.” What you're selling is, “I can't believe you don't know about this,” right? It generates word of mouth, it generates the right type of fans that stick around.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:28:00] Yeah. You have to do it for the love of the game. That's really it. I'm glad you have like laid off of the stats because now what we do is we spend our time making the show better, honing our craft and not worrying about -- not really worrying day to day about how many people are coming in, because we know they're going to come and if we make a better show every week than we made the week before, even more people will come. And that's really what it comes down to, you know, on Grumpy Old Geeks, my other show, we said at the outset, “If we don't make any money out of this, by the first 10 episodes, we're going to quit.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:29] Huh.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:28:30] And it was episode 170 before we got our first advertiser, but we didn't quit because we love doing it. So you have to love what you're doing, and if something else comes along that you love more, I don't think there's anything wrong with bouncing to the thing that you love more. But if you're doing what you love, you're going to be happy. You know? This isn't following your passion. This is just -- if this is not your main hustle and it's your side thing and you're just enjoying it for the fact that you're enjoying it, then I don't see why you should feel guilty about changing the thing that you enjoy if something new comes along that you enjoy more.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:02] Yeah. I think it's unhealthy to rely so much on this stuff that you just can't get your -- you just start to feel, well, not enough people are listening, watching, whatever, so it's not worth doing. That has to be an internal drive. It doesn't mean you can't change what you're doing to suit your market better and learn from that, but it shouldn't be, “Well, nobody's reading what I'm writing so I'm not going to write anymore.” Well, how much do you really love writing? You know, if no one's watching me lift weights and go to the gym, but I still do that, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:34] Right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:35] So that that's -- you kind of have to look at it that way, and I know that you'll find that sense of accomplishment when you record, edit, and upload like you said, but the success, “Yeah, it's delayed,” and the way you stay motivated is you say, “I'm moving forward in my skillset, if not my size of my audience,” and another -- to sort of put a cherry on this. Whenever I look at people I really admire, when I look at the Anthony Bourdain's and the Mike Rowe’s and stuff like that. Yes, these guys have an element of genius, but look at the age at which they found their success. I don't -- I'm not super familiar with Bourdain's career track, but I want to say he was at least in his 40s.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:30:13] Anthony Bourdain's first article that came out in the New Yorker Magazine, he wrote when he was 40, and then he had an 18 year career before he unfortunately killed himself. But his career trajectory started when he was 40 years old. He built up all of his skills and then he'd started to write, and he was a fantastic writer and that's what, you know, catapulted him to success. And it turns out he had a great voice, which was outside the norm, and then his career was not as long as a lot of people might think. So he was alive a lot longer than, you know, he was successful.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:45] Mike Rowe, who is thankfully still with us, love that guy as well. And also one of my favorite interviews and show guests. He, I want to say, started doing freaking like QVC or something like that. I mean literally selling dumb products that he was making fun of and getting in trouble for.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:05] It’s exactly it, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:06] And I think he was in his late 30s, early 40s, and then I think Dirty Jobs started and he was something like 43, 44.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:12] So there you go. So just keep working on your craft.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:15] And look, I'm not saying you have to be a starving artist until you're 44 years old, but what I look at when I go, “I'm never going to make it.” Is well one, we're making it. Two, I'm 38, who knows what's going to happen in four years, and then what? I'm on the same career track time wise as Mike Rowe. I'll take it. You know why not? And I'm not trying to be micro, I'm not trying to host Dirty Jobs 2.0, but you get the idea that people that we admire, when we look at their -- the iceberg, we're really only seeing everything that's above the water. We're like, “Wow, look at how illustrious they are. It's amazing.” What we don't see is flex ladder 3 o'clock in the morning on QVC, auditioning for local acting roles saying “I've got opera experience.” That's what Mike Rowe was doing, you know? It was, it was stuff like that. So you think you, you know, at least you're enjoying what you're doing for crying out loud. A lot of people don't even get that sort of far with it in the beginning.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:13] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday after these extremely short but unbelievably necessary announcements.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:19] This episode is sponsored in part by Onnit. Onnit is the health and fitness juggernaut dedicated to delivering total human optimization to its vast customer base of athletes, thinkers, fitness gurus, entrepreneurs. They've got a huge variety of products and supplements. They've got a lot of cool cutting edge science, Earth grown nutrients, time tested strategies to help people reach peak performance. I love this stuff. I've got a ton of their equipment. I've got a ton of their protein bars, their shakes, their alpha brain for a mental clarity, which I could probably stand up pop a couple of those right now.

[00:32:54] They've also got really good research. The diverse lineup of products and supplements are backed by science and research. It's not just like “Ingest this crystal powder, and you'll be magically floating with clarity.” I don't dig that stuff, you know how I am. They've also got really good, and I don't think this is the right term for it, but it's like beef jerky, but it's not super dry. They've got -- we call them meat sticks, and I use these all the time. I keep them in the car, I keep them in my bag. These are delicious. They've got like venison, buffalo, elk, and they're giant and they taste great. They don't have nitrates in them, they don't have a ton of salt in them, so I highly recommend these completely. Jason, tell them what we've got for them by way of Onnit.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:36] Head on over to onnit.com/jordan, and receive 10 percent off all foods and supplements. And for a limited time, if you go to onniy.com/jordan, you can receive a 14 count bottle of Alpha Brain to try for free, which I could use right now.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:49] Yup. That's O-N-N-I-T.com/Jordan. Oh by the way, if you go to jordanharbinger.com/course, and you click on Six-Minute Networking, that's our networking mini course. So what I put in there are drills, exercises, ways to reach out to other people, create and maintain relationships. The systems I use, the little drills I use in just a few minutes a week to keep in touch with hundreds/thousands of people, and I threw that together in a little course for you all. I want everybody to have it because if I'd had it 10, 15 years ago, who knows where things would be now. This is one of the life changing game changing things that I'd really implemented over the past half-decade or so that have made a huge difference. Jordanharbinger.com/course. It is free by the way, just in case that wasn't clear. Jordanharbinger.com/course, and that'll be linked up in the show notes of course as well.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:41] Thanks for listening and supporting the Jordan Harbinger Show. Your support keeps us on the air. For list of all the discounts from our amazing sponsors, visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers. And if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really does help us out and gets other people interested in the show. If you want some tips on how that can be done, head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:08] All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:09] Hi, Jordan, Jason, and team. I've said it before and I'll say it once again. Thank you guys for all the value you put out into the world. You've imparted so much knowledge on me that I've thought of writing you all into my will. Okay. Granted, I'm 24 and I only have some semi expensive shoes to my name, but no, the thought is there. I'm writing to ask if you have any advice on how to present invitations to friendly gatherings in a way that is enticing. I'm noticing that when I invite people to things, I can get a lot of, “Hey, that sounds great,” but not a lot of follow through. I remember you guys talking about the L.A. parties you'd throw were little to no people would show and I'm wondering if there are any tips, tricks in the lake that got people more interested in coming to your events. Your advice will be savored and use to better everything and everyone around me. Yours truly, RSV Please.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:55] Well, first of all, thanks for the kind words. I will say there's a couple of ways to get people to come to your events, and it's always tricky especially, yeah, with the L.A. thing that was, that was even more unique too, because the L.A. situation is ridiculous. It's flake city, traffic is bad. It's full of flaky people initially anyway, especially Hollywood where I was living before.

[00:36:20] Tip number one, plan in advance but not too far in advance. Remember, people might say yes and then they cancel because they don't feel like it in the moment, but a week or so in advance, that's fine. If you're trying to do things like next month on Tuesday, I've got this, people are going to go, “Sure, I've got nothing else to do.” But as that date approaches, they're going to start to get their schedule packed, which to look at it this way, one of the things I try to do, not always adhere to this, but what did I try to do when somebody invites me to something, is I say, what if this is tomorrow? What if this is next week? Would I still want to go? And if the answer is no, then I don't book it for a month from now, because when that week rolls around, I'm going to go, “Ah! I booked a lunch with so and so. Why did I do that?” Oh, because when I put it on my calendar, it was the only thing I had going in August, right? So you don't want to do that to yourself, and other people are not going to want to do that. So a week or so in advance is fine. Even if you think, “All right, this week I'm going to do this. Tell people a week, maybe 10 days in advance.”

[00:37:19] Two, confirm and reconfirm. Use text messages, those who reply should be on board. Those who don't reply, they're not going to show up. Just face it. If somebody -- if you're like, “Hey, are we still down for Thursday?”And then you don't hear from them or you see the dots and the dots go away, and then you see the dots and the dots go away. They're not coming. They're just being a wimp and they're going to go, “Oh sorry, I just saw this,” or something like that later on. But really that -- I'll speak more to that later. Also, when people do agree to go, use a little bit of accountability and leadership. So you might say, “Oh cool, Jim! I'm glad you're coming on Friday. I need you to bring the chips and salsa and Mike, you're going to bring your Xbox, right?” All right, “Charlie and Jake, you guys are bringing over a 75 inch TV. We're going to play some halo,” whatever it is. Because if it's just show up at 7, then people can go, “Eh, I don’t feel like getting off the couch.”

[00:38:10] But if it's like show up at 7, and you're bringing your Xbox, then they're like, “Oh crap. If I don't show up, the whole thing is ruined because they don't have the equipment that I said I was going to bring.” Right? Because if people don't bring themselves, they're like, “Oh, well who cares?” But if people don't bring something they said they would bring that you reconfirmed, they would bring, now they know they're being jerks. And this way people know you're counting on them, it makes it harder for them to rationalize. They can flake or bail with no consequences, and this works really well for me in L.A.

[00:38:38] But what else what really worked for me? Was cutting out friends who just couldn't get their crap together. Plenty of people actually show up when they're supposed to. It's just that plenty of people also don't. So if you've got people that just never show up, they always flake, stop inviting those people out. You have other options. I know it might seem that everyone is flaky, it's not true. There's a group of people or there's a category of person or something that just thinks that everything is optional even when they commit. Those people are annoying to be friends with, because they always screw up the plans, so just find other people. You don't need those people. That's my opinion.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:14] Well, there it is.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:15] Yup. All right, what's next?

Jason DeFillippo [00: 39:17] Hey team, great work on the new show. I'm a 26 year old man, originally from New York, who graduated from a good university four years ago. Well, all my friends went the white collar route immediately after graduating, I chose to take a more experiential route. Trying new things and traveling to new places. My friends didn't quite understand this non-path, but I knew it was important to me to explore the world a bit before in my mind, prematurely optimizing into any particular career. That is to say I optimized for life experience rather than work experience. I'm currently in Bogota, Colombia, where I'm a citizen, and I'm contemplating my next step. I've been here for six months and I've experienced the good and bad of Latin American life, and seeing the inefficiencies has made me realize there is a lot I could do to help smooth out some rough edges.

[00:40:03] A famously rough edge in this country is financial services including corruption, and I want to try and create a solution that makes financial transactions possible without sometimes literally pages of paperwork required to move money around. My problem is this. I majored in social sciences in college and have very little experience in economics and finance, but a very big post-college interest in blockchain technology. I want to get a job with a startup financial technology company in New York for networking and industry knowledge, but I don't know where to start, given my lack of knowledge about anything finance. A foot in the door would mean the world to me. I've reached out to an alum via LinkedIn for a job in sales at the FinTech company where she works and she viewed my profile but didn't say anything back. I'm in a tough place where I need to start making money again, but also have entrepreneurial ambitions that I know would require an expanded network and more industry knowledge to really get off the ground. Am I going about this the right way? How can I not starve while I learn what I think I need to know? Thank you, Strive Not Starve.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:02] All right, so very specific question, but I will say that what you can do, I'm always a fan of getting just one step closer in every area. And you've heard me say this before, “Look, you can't get your dream job. That doesn't matter. Go get something that brings you one step closer to that.” “Oh, you don't have the right job in the right location. Get the right job in the wrong location. And then switch locations.” You know, there's all kinds of little steps that are kind of, for me, 2020 hindsight that worked out for me. And when things didn't work, it's like, “Oh yeah, I didn't follow this.” Right? So in your case, what I would do is work at a FinTech or financial company on the ground, using your existing degree. It doesn't really matter what position you're in, obviously closer to finances better, but you might try being -- this is a nice little hack, and if I had to do things over again, I would probably do this.

[00:41:52] Try being an assistant to someone who is higher up in the company, which would get you in on the real stuff. Have you ever noticed, Jason, and I don't know if Strive Not Starve is seeing this just because he's outside the corporate world. But have you ever noticed that there'll be somebody in middle management, but in a way they're kind of subordinate to the CEO's assistant or secretary or like.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:42:14] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:14] you know, so when I'll go to a company here in Silicon Valley, and it'll be like a like Stripe, okay? And the assistant to Jack Dorsey, that person is in many ways more powerful, more clued in on what's going on in the company than somebody who's right beneath the C-suite in a lot of ways, because they're sitting next to freaking Jack Dorsey and managing his schedule. They know all the meetings, they're taking notes in the meetings, they're on the plane with them. They know more about what's going on in the company than pretty much anyone else other than the CEO and other people in the C-suite that are there doing the work.

[00:42:51] So if you can become an assistant to somebody who's higher up in the company, it doesn't even have to be the CEO. This could be some sort of deputy manager or blah, blah blah, in the financial area, that will get you in on the real stuff. Even if you're only adjacent to the deal, you're not working on the deal yourself. You can make your desire known, “Hey look, I eventually want to be in your position or near your position or working in your office other than this.” And that person will probably want to help you when you show promise because it's hard to hire. This is much better most of the time than working really far underneath the deal, but in finance.

[00:43:25] So it's better not to be sort of a spreadsheet monkey at the bottom of the food chain for too long. If you can also -- if you have the option to be somebody who's in the room when the deal is being made, “Yes, it's good to know the mechanics of the deal.” So if you're doing spreadsheet stuff that has its purpose, but you're going to move up faster in my opinion and from what I've seen. If you have some of that experience but you also are in the room. I think being in the room is just very, very important when it comes to this. I hope that makes sense.

[00:43:55] The other bit of advice I would say is keep studying blockchain intensely if that's what you're interested in. If possible, work for a blockchain company, even a startup. I don't even know if there are non-startup blockchain companies other than like Coinbase.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:08] IBM has an entire blockchain division, so there are major companies that are investing in blockchain nowadays.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:14] Yeah, yeah. It might be tough to get into IBM's blockchain department, but you never know. But work in the industry, always, because that brings you that extra step closer. It will breed experience you need. Plus, it will give you connections in that world. Plus, it gives you an excuse to reach out to other people in that industry. “Hey, I'm working for IBM's blockchain division, and I wanted to see if you wanted to grab lunch and talk about blockchain stuff. I know you're doing this stealth startup, da, da, da, whatever. And best of luck smoothing out corruption in Latin America. You've got your work cut out for you. All right, recommendation of the week. Jason, what are we talking about here?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:44:48] The Gateway podcast. I've found this, it's a six part investigative journalism podcast that comes from Gizmodo of all places. Go figure. And it's interesting this guy, Jennings Brown, spent a year investigating this Internet spiritual guru, Teal Swan. Have you heard of her?

 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:06] No, it already sounds loopy, but go ahead.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:10] This thing is incredible. It goes all over the place from false memory implantation back from like, you know, the satanic panic of the 1980s when everybody thought that there was like these satanic cults that were eating babies and just police investigations into suicide. And I've never heard of this woman until this podcast, but she's got a massive, massive global following and the whole thing starts out with, “Is she a cult leader or not?” And the more you listen to it, the deeper it goes. And if you can say, somebody is certifiably insane, this woman, Teal Swan is certifiably insane. You have to listen to this. It's only six parts, and it just wrapped up with episode six. And I've binged this in like, you know, one walk in the afternoon, and it's incredible.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:58] It's called The Gateway. This sounds creepy.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:00] It's kind of like, what was it Wild Wild Country with the Swami that we watched not too long ago? It's kind of like that, but much more dangerous and much creepier. So I would definitely check this out. It sends chills up my spine whenever I see a video of her talking. It's like this woman is insane.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:17] Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:18] MF an insane, and she has a massive following and she's dangerous.

 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:22] That's scary.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:24 ]Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:25] Yeah, that is scary. I like stuff like this. I mean it's a real life sort of cult, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:31] And is happening right now. She is like at the peak of her popularity right now. So this is one of those things where it's happening in real time, not something that happened back in the ‘80s, and we're looking at historical footage. You can go to our YouTube channel and her Facebook group and see new stuff every day.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:45] And then what do you mean? What do you mean hypnotic self-help YouTube. She's trying to hypnotize people watching them?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:50] No, no. She's just got these crazy backgrounds that are going and she wears funky hippy clothes and it just kind of it, -- you just got to see it to believe it. It's really hard to explain.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:00] Yeah, I'll check that out. I'm interested in stuff like that as you know, I wanted to get a cult researcher on here. These people are hard to reach, which is strange, and a lot of the ones that infiltrate cults, they do not want to come on the show. They don't want to go on any show, which I find disappointing, but I also understand it. A lot of them are traumatized. They retire and they never want to talk about it again.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:47:20] Yeah, absolutely.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:22] Which I think is understandable, but also kind of a huge bummer.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:47:25] And for safety reasons too.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:26] There's that too, yeah. There's that too. These are not well liked people when they go in and dismantle cults full of crazy people. All right. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week, and don't forget you can email us friday@jordanharbinger.com to get your questions answered on the air. We're happy to keep you anonymous. We always do. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shoutout to Jules Bradley in the UK, just found the new show from the old, had some kind words for us. And John R., who offered us some free pizza. He's the manager of a Pizza My Heart, which is an award winning pizza place in the Bay Area near where we live. I'm definitely going to hit you up on that. I've been, “Look, I hate to admit it, but I've been eating a lot of pizza lately.” It's so good.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:10] Man. Oh, man.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:11] It's so good. I know.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:13] Get back to the gym.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:14] Oh, I've been doing that too, but my cousin lives with me now and his favorite food is pizza, and he's 20, so he can just like eat a pizza twice a day. And he's like, “What? I'm fine.” And I'm like, “Yeah, you're still 112 pounds.” I on the other hand, “I'm now also 112 pounds heavier than I was when you moved in.” But yeah, it's whatever. Thanks for the pizza. I'm going to hit you up on that. Oh! And my family's coming to visit and all they eat -- they're from Michigan, so all they eat are like burgers, pizza, ribs, and you know, Michigan food. Sorry, Michiganders, you know what I mean though. All right, I'm on Instagram and Twitter @jordanharbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show. Jason, tell him where to find you.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:53] I'm on Instagram @JPD, Twitter is JPDEF, and you can check out my other podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks out every Monday, sometimes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:00] Huh! Almost. Sometimes every Monday, almost, yeah. Keep sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Remember, keep them concise if you can. That makes it a lot easier for us on our end and share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got a lot more in the pipeline, very excited to bring it to you. A lot of really cool stuff coming up in the future. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time.

[00:49:25] By the way all, the largest technology conference on the planet is now on demand at PodcastOne. Web Summit has teamed up with PodcastOne to bring you the best in tech talk. Each weekday listened to a new lecture or panel from one of the past Web Summit conferences. They cover everything from the future of driving to artificial intelligence. Listen free to Web Summit exclusively on Apple Podcast, podcastone.com, and the PodcastOne app. And by the way, if you love this show or that one, share it with a friend and leave us a rating and a review.