1079: Noise Pollution | Skeptical Sunday

1079: Noise Pollution | Skeptical Sunday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger to today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer, and researcher Jessica Wynn on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life.

And those around you. Our mission on the show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though, it's skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest, co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about it.

Topics such as acupuncture, astrology, GMOs, toothpaste, diet pills, and energy drinks. And if you're new to the show or you wanna tell your friends about the show, and I always appreciate it when you do that, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, disinformation, crime, and cults and more.

That'll help new listeners get a taste of all the things that we do here on the show. Just visit Jordan harbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started today on Skeptical Sunday, a topic we all experience but rarely discuss. Noise pollution, airplanes pierce the sky leaf blowers.

Blast the city streets up into your face every day. Quiet gives way to air conditioners, pounding music, construction equipment, traffic, barking dogs, your roommate, your kids. The list goes on and on. The sound of modern life is an unrelenting sweet symphony of annoyance, and that noise might be polluting our health and environment a lot more than we think.

Here to help us muffle some of the racket is researcher and writer Jessica Wynn. Welcome Jessica.

[00:01:35] Jessica Wynn: Hey Jordan. Uh, I hope this episode serves as a public service announcement to ban leaf blowers everywhere.

[00:01:43] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, they are the worst. The number of times that they have interrupted a podcast are countless, and don't even get me started on the airplanes and the barking dogs and the motorcycles.

[00:01:52] Jessica Wynn: Oh yeah. Noise pollution is, it's everywhere. We adapt to and normalize the sounds of life without realizing the negative impacts it's having on our health and the environment. And humans really underestimate what life's noise is doing to our brains and bodies.

[00:02:08] Jordan Harbinger: So it's not just the neighbor's music keeping me up at night.

It's the annoying headache that comes along with it. But how does that actually affect the environment itself?

[00:02:16] Jessica Wynn: Well, sounds there a huge part of the environment, right? Like you might not hear that tree fall in the forest, but the sound of it definitely disturbs some wildlife acoustic biologists study this all the time.

[00:02:28] Jordan Harbinger: Acoustic biologists. That sounds cool. What do they do exactly?

[00:02:33] Jessica Wynn: Acoustic biology is the study of the crucial role sound plays in how animals including humans interact with their environment. For instance, a deciduous forest sounds different from a pine forest, and those sounds change with the seasons.

It's like each environment has its own unique soundtrack. Uh, there's this fascinating professor at Dartmouth and she just studies crickets specifically, and she says, this world of sound, it's something we're only just beginning to understand. It's like trying to understand a foreign language with just a few words.

[00:03:07] Jordan Harbinger: Crickets. Uh, I thought they were just kind of nature's way of providing ambient noise when I'm camping, but maybe they're trying to tell me something I don't know.

[00:03:14] Jessica Wynn: I think so. She's dedicated her life to the sounds they make, but it's not just the crickets, like they're just part of a much larger picture.

The whole ecosystem has its own symphony and, and noise pollution disrupts that symphony affecting animal communications behavior, even their breed patterns.

[00:03:32] Jordan Harbinger: I can vouch for the fact that when my roommates had their music too loud, it definitely affected my breeding patterns as well. That's okay.

[00:03:39] Jessica Wynn: You're not alone.

Even the heartbeat, caterpillars speeds up when exposed to loud sounds. I mean, noise adversely affects all wildlife on bland and in the sea.

[00:03:50] Jordan Harbinger: I didn't even realize caterpillars had hearts. I thought that just figured, whatever. Anyway,

[00:03:55] Jessica Wynn: thing that comes blood.

[00:03:56] Jordan Harbinger: But okay, so how bad can this actually be? My neighbor blaring music at 3:00 AM It's not affecting the fish or whatever is it.

[00:04:04] Jessica Wynn: It might be if he's close enough to the water. The impact of noise pollution on wildlife is worse than you think. Animals rely on sound for hunting, communication, navigation, and sound travels five times faster underwater. So it's crucial for ocean animals, even deep sea species to hear natural sounds without disruption.

Imagine a whale trying to chat with its mate or its baby while a helicopter hovers above. Jet skis skip by and a ship is glaring. Its horn, it's chaos. And this makes it difficult for whales to use echo location, which is that thing when animals like whales, dolphins, bats use it. They emit a sound and use the sound waves and echoes to detect the distance, the size, and the shape of nearby objects.

So when that's interrupted, they get confused. And this leads to beached whales. I.

[00:04:59] Jordan Harbinger: Really? That's wild. So we're effectively throwing a party in the ocean and wondering why the whales aren't enjoying it.

[00:05:07] Jessica Wynn: More like the whales and other sea life are wondering when these noisy neighbors will be evicted.

Within three years, 88 dolphins and whales beached in Maharastra, India alone, that's just one area. Yeah. And the numbers of whales stranded on beaches. It grows and grows, and it's because of noise pollution.

[00:05:29] Jordan Harbinger: Really? I didn't realize noise was the root. Maybe shark attacks are just sharks trying to get some peace and quiet.

I can relate.

[00:05:34] Jessica Wynn: It's not really an absurd theory. Cuban activity has increased, so there's more ports, there's more shipping activity. There's seismic surveys, there's mine blasts. And as the ice melts in the coldest parts of the world around the Arctic and Greenland, places like that, cruise ships now cross daily.

This is all very noisy. The narwhal whale, the one that's like the unicorn of the sea with the horn that is facing extinction as noise levels increase in their previously undisturbed habitat.

[00:06:07] Jordan Harbinger: You know, I didn't even know those were real until recently. I just, I thought that was fake and it was like, oh, it's from some story that I haven't read some children's book.

And then my wife's like, narwals. I'm like, yeah, ha. She's like, no, really? I'm like, those aren't real. Alright. And I thought she was the dumb one. I'm like, oh, those are fake. And she's like, yeah, you might want to Google it, man. 'cause they're definitely real. Yeah. Had no idea. All right, so those boat cruises and Waterfront Dave Matthews Band slash Hootie and the Blowfish reunion concerts, those are actually killing whales.

[00:06:37] Jessica Wynn: Yeah. All the studies say absolutely, but not just whales and sea life, like the den of this urban noise. It's messing with animals on land too, causing a lot of disruption to bird songs, which affects their breeding and their territorial behaviors. So if you live among mockingbirds like I do, you hear it during their mating season in the spring when their calls have now started to sound like the car alarms and the truck backup beeps and they love to sing at night.

So I probably wouldn't notice that if they did it during the day.

[00:07:12] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. So noise pollution actually gets integrated into their mating calls. So it's these birds, instead of doing like the. Or whatever they did before. I think that's from Hunger Games. Instead of doing that, they're doing like a beep, like car backing up sound or like a, I can't even do a car alarm, but they're doing that instead.

Yeah, totally. Oh, that's so bizarre. I'm imagining a bird trying to imitate an NWA track because they learned it from the 12-year-old down the road. Oh, man. Explain it. Things are complicated out there in the dating world for Mockingbird.

[00:07:41] Jessica Wynn: That sounds awesome actually. Yeah, but that's just how it's going for a lot of species.

During the coronavirus lockdown, we had this rare opportunity to study changes in bird songs because things were just a lot quieter everywhere. A lot of studies done during that time found that the pandemic's noise reduction led to many positive changes for birds. There was an increase in bird sightings all over the world.

Bluebird were previously having fewer chicks and nobody could really figure out why. Before the pandemic, their population surged. During the shutdown, Robins changed communication patterns. They went from singing at night back to singing at daytime birds who nest in chronic exposure to loud construction sites.

They always are shown to have massive feather loss, but during the pandemic, when the construction stopped, all their feathers returned.

[00:08:35] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, wow. I actually saw coyotes in my friend's backyard in la like in a nice neighborhood in the middle of Hollywood. I. And I didn't expect that either, but maybe that kind of has something to do with it.

Although who knows, maybe there's always coyotes there. The evolution of birdsong though, that is fascinating. I guess I never thought about them needing the environment to be more quiet in order to communicate and reproduce. But I guess if you're essentially yelling to your neighbors down the road all day and that's like how you live your entire life, it would be hard when some idiot is jackhammering on a corner and riding their cool guy.

Motorcycle at max volume. Look for reproduction too. I too like to focus at the task at hand. I don't need noise interrupting my flow either. I get it. If

[00:09:14] Jessica Wynn: somebody's screaming something Yeah, that's right. Your performance won't be as good probably. That's right. In Mumbai. There's a lot of studies there.

It's just populated so loud and so bioacoustics are heavily studied there. They're gauging the impact noise pollution has on vocal behaviors in the populations, and they will do so much to be heard, like they'll sing in a higher pitch. They will delay nesting because mating calls are hard to hear over our low frequency human noise, and some studies are showing that noise pollution prevents birds from learning their species.

Typical songs altogether. They just might never make,

[00:09:52] Jordan Harbinger: oh, poor birds. It all makes sense. It's like they're trying to outsmart the noise, but it's causing all sorts of other problems. It sounds like incel birds are on the rise again, sadly, I can relate.

[00:10:02] Jessica Wynn: Oh, George, I don't know about that, but we see similar impacts on any animal observed.

I don't know if noise is what's creating human incel, but a 2020 study in the UK found that. Bat activity and their feeding behavior are negatively affected by traffic noise. And this makes sense because bats use echolocation.

[00:10:26] Jordan Harbinger: I see. So the bats started the pandemic to shut us up so they could navigate better.

Which is really smart actually. Maybe. Yeah. Citation needed.

[00:10:35] Jessica Wynn: Right, right, right. Snow crazier than like whales and birds dying because of the ships and the construction sites. There's just so many connections to how noisy we humans are. And climate change. There's many sources of noise pollution, like traffic from fossil fuel, power vehicles, and all the industrial activities that we do.

They're significant contributors to greenhouse gas emissions.

[00:11:01] Jordan Harbinger: So addressing noise can also help mitigate climate change. Noise pollution and climate change are never really discussed together. Actually, noise pollution's never discussed at all, which is one of the reasons I wanted to do this on Skeptical Sunday.

So I really don't associate climate change and noise pollution, but I guess I probably could slash should. 'cause engines are doing a lot of the work for both.

[00:11:18] Jessica Wynn: I know nobody's making this connection. We're just not aware, and we absolutely need to make it a part of the conversation. If it's noisy, it's disrupting the environment and the climate.

And the activists who are shouting through the megaphone to save the trees should be aware that noise pollution is responsible for stunted plant growth, diversity. It's contributing to climate change. So noise pollution, it can significantly affect what's called the phyto hormone content of the plants, which is an important part of their stress response.

So these sound vibrations are literally changing the cell walls of plants, and that's reducing the number of seedlings that germinate.

[00:11:58] Jordan Harbinger: So many people right now are like, and this is why you need to do sound baths to something cure cancer. And I'm like, mm, we're not getting there yet. But with the plants, can this really be proven to be rooted in the noise though?

I almost find that hard to believe.

[00:12:11] Jessica Wynn: Yeah. It is proven for sure. In cell plants, I don't know, say

[00:12:16] Jordan Harbinger: in cell plants, red pill plants.

[00:12:20] Jessica Wynn: There was a study conducted on the impact of noise pollution on plant growth within urban community gardens. And so these researchers, they made two identical setups with the only variable being one garden contained traffic noises, and the other contain just natural noises.

After only six weeks, the average plant height for the natural noise group was about 104 millimeters, and the traffic group, only 65.

[00:12:48] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. I wonder if noisy tomatoes taste different than ones from a quiet garden.

[00:12:53] Jessica Wynn: I, I dunno. But that would be a really fun taste. Test is set up. It could. The noise is affecting so much and on top of the plant effect, urban sprawl and deforestation, they remove natural sound buffers and things that we use to deal with climate change, like our air conditioners, our generators, that's all adding just more noise.

Like most sources of noise, the transportation, the fossil fuel extraction, it's all contributing to global warming. So noise pollution. It's just aggravating the climate crisis in our cities, in our forest underwater, and it's causing grave harm to animals and even leading to species loss.

[00:13:37] Jordan Harbinger: Oh wow. I guess more than the narwhal is facing extinction just from noise.

It just seems, again, something you never think about. You think about pollution and plastic and oil spills and stuff, killing a bunch of species, but you don't think, oh, all these boats making noise or underwater mining is killing entire species. It just sounds like it can't be right, but I guess it makes sense.

[00:13:58] Jessica Wynn: I know, right? Like it's not tangible, so we don't think about it like we think about plastic, it's intense noise, pollution, it's damaging whole ecosystem, and that comes with the potential of extinctions. What do you think it's doing to us humans? You know, any neuroscientist will tell you that sound has shaped the evolution of the human brain.

[00:14:18] Jordan Harbinger: Tell me more about that, because it makes sense given what we've just learned that maybe it's not great to spend all your time in LA or New York as if I needed any more reasons to avoid Los Angeles besides doorknob, herpes, or whatever you guys have down there at any given time.

[00:14:34] Jessica Wynn: That's not fair.

[00:14:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Except if you live downtown and they have it's doorknob, cholera,

[00:14:39] Jessica Wynn: nobody goes downtown.

[00:14:40] Jordan Harbinger: No, true.

[00:14:41] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it's loud. And there's a neuroscientist, Seth Horowitz, and he'll explain that vibration sensitivity is found even in really simple life forms, so it's critical for our survival, whether it's detecting predators or finding food.

Our brains evolved to be incredibly sensitive to sound because it's such a crucial source of information. So that's why we don't go downtown. The sounds of a skid row are not very sure. That's the reason appeal, that's

[00:15:12] Jordan Harbinger: the reason not because I'm getting accosted by somebody who's trying to sell me batteries that they just stole from a seven 11.

So sound is like some kind of superpowered communication channel for the brain.

[00:15:22] Jessica Wynn: Yeah. In a way, sound travels through almost anything, right? Air, water, even the ground. So when we talk about hearing and sound, we are really focusing on the vibrations. So even deaf animals are affected. You go to a concert, you feel that in your chest when there's like heavy bass, it penetrates everything everywhere and it.

Processed by the brain much faster than visual information. Yes, light travels faster than sound, but Horowitz says, our brains hear things 20 to a hundred times faster than we see them.

[00:15:57] Jordan Harbinger: That's incredible. I had no idea.

[00:15:59] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it really is. It's wild. And the brain processes sound so quickly that it influences all our other perceptions and thoughts.

So if you hear a loud noise, your brain is already prepping you to react before you've even fully processed what's happening.

[00:16:15] Jordan Harbinger: So sound gets in our heads faster than anything else, and this affects how we think and feel.

[00:16:20] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, our brains are constantly processing rhythms and patterns and sound, and that helps to make sense of our surroundings and our emotions.

So think about when noise messes with your sleep. If you've been feeling unusually cranky or tired, probably don't need a therapy session. But you need a break from the chronic noise exposure. It just leads to fatigue and that increases our anxiety and that can cause mood swings. So noise pollution disrupts our emotional and mental health, but people normalize it and think you just have to deal with it.

So if you ask somebody in really loud areas to just deal with it, that's equivalent to telling somebody stuck in traffic. Like just drive faster. Yeah. It's not a solution, it's just like anything. And each person's affected a little bit differently depending on our personality.

[00:17:12] Jordan Harbinger: So the sounds I hear can actually become a part of my personality.

[00:17:16] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, of course. And not just a part, like it's not a mystery why New Yorkers are so loud. People from cities are louder than rural or suburban people because they have to talk louder over the noise of urban life. And New York City is really loud. Yeah, that's true. Noise pollution isn't just creating loud New Yorkers.

It's impacting our health and in more serious ways than just giving you a headache.

[00:17:39] Jordan Harbinger: The problem wasn't just that I got louder after living in New York City. It's that I stayed that way even after I left. Look, I like it now though. I'm just kinda like loud American guy. What else is new? But the trick is to be both charming and loud, and not just loud, but I digress.

Okay. So besides the headaches, what else is going on with humans?

[00:17:56] Jessica Wynn: It's impossible to ignore how noise pollution affects our hearing. That's the obvious one. And research, yes, shows that constant exposure to noise drives hearing loss, tinnitus, but it also causes high blood pressure and even heart disease.

[00:18:10] Jordan Harbinger: I get the hearing stuff and blood pressure because of stress, but actual heart disease that is way more serious.

[00:18:16] Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Estimates suggest that chronic noise exposure contributes to around 48,000 cases of heart disease in Europe each year. And it's also linked to conditions like type two diabetes.

Obviously sleep disruption, stress memory, impairment. There's emerging research suggesting a link to dementia, but that one's still being investigated.

[00:18:40] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. To think of all the health issues I may have caused people blaring Bon Jovi at four o'clock in the morning when I lived in Serbia every weekend.

[00:18:48] Jessica Wynn: I mean, it should be a crime to play any bonjovi recorded after 1989.

Yes, I agree.

[00:18:53] Clip: But

[00:18:54] Jessica Wynn: it's not just blaring music though. There's so much more to it. And starting in the seventies, US agencies, they listed noise pollution as quote, a growing danger to the health and welfare of the nation's population. The European Environmental Agency, they report that noise ranks second only to air pollution as the environmental exposure most harmful to public health.

[00:19:18] Jordan Harbinger: This is crazy 'cause a doctor has never once mentioned noise pollution when discussing my health. Or do doctors recommend noise reduction? Is that even a thing or is it just completely lost?

[00:19:27] Jessica Wynn: My doctor doesn't talk to me about noise. I would think if a patient like mentions noise as a stressor, especially if they have any cardiovascular issues, I guess a Dr.

May suggest personal noise mitigation strategies and stress reduction techniques, but I'd be surprised if it's ever presented as like the serious cause of any ailment. It'd be interesting to see do they even talk about that in medical school?

[00:19:53] Jordan Harbinger: But it seems like we are actually inclined to crank the volume to relieve stress.

For example, I listen to EDM electronic dance music that gets louder when I'm ready to relax. That's how that works.

[00:20:03] Jessica Wynn: Are you relaxing though? It's jolting your adrenaline and you're probably trying to mask out all the noise pollution that might cover your EDM. So scientists see that. Surprise, surprise.

Constant exposure to noise does the opposite, and it messes with your body's stress hormones.

[00:20:22] Jordan Harbinger: Ah. So I'm essentially engaging in stressful stress reduction. That's great. I mean, we

[00:20:27] Jessica Wynn: all are, right? Yeah. It's basic biology though. When someone experiences a stressful noise, the body's amygdala sends a distress signal to the hypothalamus, which then signals the adrenal glands to release adrenaline and causes a stress response.

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[00:24:09] Jessica Wynn: No. Studies suggest that, and it just might be my observation, but I do the same thing. I blast music with a fast beat and it definitely increases my pace when I'm running, but that's probably because the stress response that the noise creates, it's turning on that fight or flight mode, and we're already running.

So allowed to do more research on the connection between music and exercise.

[00:24:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's so complicated. I can feel relaxed by a certain song at home, but the same music live obviously would pump me up. I guess you can't deny the power of music, but I don't necessarily know how to harness it, right? I think I'm relaxing, but I'm just stressing myself out or making myself work harder.

I don't know what's going on.

[00:24:50] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, I mean, and there's different parts of our brain processing it. We might really like this song, but there's a part of our brain that just is hearing noise and wondering what's wrong. Listening to music has so many variables, but stress, anxiety, other mental health problems, they're linked to not just music, but all the sounds of life.

Have you ever turned down the music in your car or told somebody to stop talking so you can concentrate on parking?

[00:25:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, of course. Sound effects us in mysterious ways. I also get annoyed when people are talking or making noise and I'm trying to do anything complicated. And of course if I screw something up, it's always the fault of the person making noise.

Not my fault for not knowing how to cut something or open a box or whatever. And I feel it's like peak dad guilt because I'll be like, Jayden, keep it down. I'm trying to, and it's just because I can't figure out how to open a container. And he's like, what am I doing wrong,

[00:25:43] Jessica Wynn: man, these adults are weird. Yeah.

These adults man.

[00:25:46] Jordan Harbinger: Take a chill pill, dad. Geez. Yeah.

[00:25:48] Jessica Wynn: How dare people exist around you? Yes, exactly.

[00:25:52] Jordan Harbinger: How dare someone else breathe the same oxygen as me while I'm frustrated?

[00:25:57] Jessica Wynn: And it's not just that they're ruining your concentration. People get embarrassed about noises too. There's all kinds of sound barriers.

People put in bathrooms and things so that,

[00:26:08] Jordan Harbinger: yes,

[00:26:09] Jessica Wynn: the sound

[00:26:10] Jordan Harbinger: people don't hear each other. Have you been to Japan at all? I

[00:26:11] Jessica Wynn: haven't, but I know. I think I know where you're going with this. So

[00:26:14] Jordan Harbinger: when I was in Japan, they have these toilet seats that have like computers attached to them, and I used to just laugh and be like, oh, Japan.

But then I got them for my house and I noticed that when I went back to Japan. That the ones they have in Japan have functions that mine don't have here in the home. Like it's like a bidet toilet seat that has a heater and a blah, blah blah. But in Japan, there's a music note button and I'm like, okay, what is this?

So I press it at the hotel and it starts playing music, box music. And I've noticed that even places that don't have that, they will have a music box near the urinal or near the toilet. And I finally asked somebody what the purpose of why does every bathroom have a music box? I don't know if people just don't want bathroom sounds.

They're embarrassed even when they're in the bathroom. So they'll play music so you can't hear them peeing or whatever they're doing. And then when you're done, it stops. It's so weird. I'm just thinking we're all in the bathroom to do the same thing, but somebody's like, oh no, I need to hear this rendition of the national anthem instead of

[00:27:09] Jessica Wynn: rather hear a music, then yeah.

Why

[00:27:12] Jordan Harbinger: I need to hear like a music box version of Never Gonna Dance again by George Michael instead of someone urinating. It makes no sense me. It helps you

[00:27:18] Jessica Wynn: go. Yeah,

[00:27:19] Jordan Harbinger: exactly. It's that saxophone solo. Play it on a music box.

[00:27:24] Jessica Wynn: Yeah. That kind of culture would never have blasted in the house I grew up in where we all shared one bathroom, but maybe you needed that.

[00:27:31] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe you needed that more than them.

[00:27:33] Jessica Wynn: I don't know. It causes a lot of laughs in the house, but I mean, when we examine why we feel that way, why we do that though, it's not that mysterious. We have this finite amount of attention to divide between vision and hearing to make decisions, and so when we turn down the radio in the car, we see better.

I don't know. I guess when you have music playing in the bathroom, you can focus on what you're doing. Maybe you could relax

[00:28:00] Jordan Harbinger: certain sphincters more. Yeah. Just like, all right, no one can hear me so I don't have to worry about the noise and just release. You

[00:28:05] Jessica Wynn: could relax more. Yeah. Maybe what we're doing is either way, if we're turning it up or down, we're just adjusting the noise pollution in our immediate environment.

I. So those beach whales, they're starting to make a lot more sense of how they can get confused. And when no waste pollution is out of our control and makes it difficult to sleep, then there's this domino effect and it's causing problems that are giving us that high blood pressure and heart disease.

And like we mentioned before, it also causes hypersensitivity to sound, which leads to hearing loss and tinnitus

[00:28:39] Jordan Harbinger: is noise pollution actually causing a lot of hearing loss? 'cause it seems like we would all be suffering hearing loss since we're always just bathing in noise pollution and everyone, you know, owns headphones or AirPods or both or whatever, right?

Like we're all gonna go deaf earlier. I don't know.

[00:28:54] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it's complicated. We aren't all actively suffering because we're highly adaptable, but it is affecting us and our ancestors definitely had better hearing than we do. So if someone time traveled here from any time pre-industrial revolution. They'd be driven mad.

They'd be running through the streets with bloody ears because of just how noisy the world is today. And it could also affect us the opposite way. If we went back in time, it might be too much quiet for us to handle. There's accounts from people who spend time at the Arctic Research Center, and they always mention how freaky that deafening silence is.

But there's 30 million people in the US who are exposed to dangerous sound levels every single day.

[00:29:42] Jordan Harbinger: 30 million. Wow. It's 10% of the country or so this is, that's like the whole population of Texas, basically. Yeah. Wow.

[00:29:47] Jessica Wynn: And the constant exposure to high decibel environments that can lead to what is called noise induced hearing loss, NIHL.

And around 25% of Americans, whether you realize it or not, are experiencing hearing issues linked to NIHL. So sounds at or below 70 decibels. That's the safe zone, but sounds above that they can be harmful even if it's just for a short time.

[00:30:15] Jordan Harbinger: I am quite positive. I've damaged my hearing from working in clubs, bars, using earbuds for literally hours and hours at a time.

Doing this show, using over the year headphones that might be turned up slightly too loud. How do we know what's safe? Decibel levels actually are, my watch will tell me. My kids are screaming in my ear. It'll be like you're in a loud environment that's relatively new and I don't always have that right with me all the time.

[00:30:39] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, of course. For scale 85 decibels, that's like your alarm clock, but lower than the lawnmower. And then when you get further to 110 decibels, that's when you're at a rock concert or that jackhammer's going. There's this great Decibel app called Decibel X.

[00:30:58] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, yeah. Do you have that? I do have it, yeah.

I've had it for a long time. I, I love that app actually. It's

[00:31:01] Jessica Wynn: going, oh yeah. It's so fun to pull it out and just see where you're at because sometimes I think something is so loud and it's not, it's just disrupted this quiet place. Vice versa. If you're somewhere loud and you're used to it, you're like, oh shit, this is a lot louder than I thought.

So it depends on what we are doing or concentrating on when noise happens.

[00:31:22] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, I have that app. I can recommend it. We'll link to it in the show notes. I love that there's a little scale that shows how loud your environment is and what it compares to. So it'll be like you're in a place that's as loud as a lawnmower or a jet engine.

It's cool. It's like a soft breeze and yeah, it is interesting 'cause you'll think. Gosh, it's so loud in here, but it's really not. You just want it more quiet. Or you'll think like, oh, this isn't so bad and it's, no, your ears are filling with fluid or something because it's been so stinking loud for the last half an hour.

It's like, you can sit in here for 20 more minutes before you suffer temporary slash permanent hearing damage, and you're like, I'm gonna get the check and leave. I really wish I'd been more aware of this stuff growing up. So many dumb things, right? I'd go to work without earplugs and I'd just be like, God, it's so loud.

My head hurts. Or I'd mow the lawn every weekend and I'd be like, this lawnmower is so loud, and I'd drown out the loud sound of the mower by cranking up my earbuds as loud as I could. And these are not like insulated sound isolating earbuds. They were just like Sony plastic whatevers. So I just basically made them louder than the lawnmower.

I cannot imagine that was good for me, aside from inhaling gasoline fumes for three hours every single weekend, coming from a small mower that doesn't purify or whatever. So we are all basically setting ourselves up for a lifetime of like, what? Why did you say that's gonna get old so fast?

[00:32:38] Jessica Wynn: It's, it's a huge issue, you know, and it's pieces of the puzzle of who we are.

But noise pollution is actually the number one cause of hearing loss worldwide. It surpasses age-related hearing loss. So the next time someone says, turn it down. They could be saving you from a future of, what'd you say? What,

[00:32:59] Jordan Harbinger: yeah. Yeah. I'm hoping that eventually they'll have the equivalent of cataract surgery for your ears, where they're like, oh, we need to just inject some sort of like stem cell thing and your nerves will regrow and you'll be able to hear again.

I need that. If

[00:33:10] Jessica Wynn: you really start to look at the biology of it, I don't know how that would be possible, because it's all about those little hairs that actually are getting the vibrations. And as we get older, I mean we naturally lose those.

[00:33:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I don't know. Miracles from modern medicine happen quite a lot.

This is a tangent, but my dad is 80 years old and he went and got his cataract removed and he's like, yeah, they said I won't need glasses. And I'm like, how is that possible? And he is like, oh, they removed the cataract and they just put a lens in instead that is shaped to correct your vision. And I'm like, get outta here.

He's like, no, I have 2020 vision now. He's 80. His 2020 vision doesn't need glasses at all except to read. And I'm like, that is truly, and it took like a day. I want that.

[00:33:51] Jessica Wynn: I know. Wow.

[00:33:51] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I'm sure you can get it. I don't know if you need to have the cataract part. I think that part's optional.

[00:33:56] Jessica Wynn: It ever makes it clear.

I, my eyes are trash. I would, I'm all in for bionic eyes. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:01] Jordan Harbinger: And eyes are super complicated. Granted, it's a lens, so maybe it's easier than ear hairs. I don't know. I'd love to hear from somebody who knows about this, like an audiologist who does ear surgery or something like that, and they're like, oh, that's impossible for these reasons.

Currently we'd need to be able to do X. Or like, oh, actually this is totally possible. We just need to work on it. I don't know. I'm so curious if there's technology for that. 'cause I, yeah,

[00:34:20] Clip II: I worry about losing my hearing.

[00:34:22] Jordan Harbinger: I really do. I'm convinced that I have a little bit of hearing damage potentially already, and that it's just gonna get worse over time.

And my mom has hearing damage, so it could be genetic too. And I'm like, oh great. Just something to look forward to.

[00:34:32] Jessica Wynn: You do have hearing loss. It's impossible to avoid, like you don't have a volume knob on your daily life. The air pads are not helping and it's a serious problem in. Every workplace studies show that noise decreases productivity.

So if your boss is yelling at you from across the office, or it's just a really noisy environment, you can say like, Hey, it's scientifically proven that shouting is actually lowering your performance. Maybe you'll get a quieter office. I don't know. Yeah.

[00:35:05] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, I'm sure that's how that would turn out. Bosses who yell and can't control their emotions, love it when you clap back at them with data and science and then ask for some nicer office.

But as far as the noise stuff, man, if that's not a reason to turn down the pre 1989 Bon Jovi, I don't know what is.

[00:35:21] Jessica Wynn: I know, but when you're a kid, it sounds so good. Loud. Yeah,

[00:35:25] Jordan Harbinger: true, true story. I think

[00:35:26] Jessica Wynn: we're safe maybe at the levels we're working at right now with our headphones, but I don't know 50% of teachers, they experience vocal damage because they're talking over.

Classroom wise.

[00:35:39] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. I'm sure I contributed to that for a few teachers as well. Same. I, I used to get yelled at constantly for talking. My voice is the voice you hear now, which is loud and clear, was always loud and clear, and I wasn't always able to moderate it as a kid. And I was always the voice, the teacher could hear and understand above everyone else's.

So I got yelled at constantly for that. It's, it sounds like our classrooms actually needed a good acoustics upgrade. Tile floors, glass walls, concrete walls, cinder block, whatever. It was not ideal.

[00:36:05] Jessica Wynn: If muting the student's mic during the pandemic was probably a blessing for a lot of teachers. Oh, the class

[00:36:11] Jordan Harbinger: clown.

I can just mute this person. They can never talk. Yes, please.

[00:36:15] Jessica Wynn: Nearly 20% of noise exposed workers have hearing impairment, occupational noise, pollution. It's a big health hazard, and kids are particularly vulnerable to this too at school. So chronic noise, it impacts their psychological development, their stress levels.

It even is shown to cause learning delays. So if you're trying to concentrate on homework and that leaf blower is going. That noise pollution can be impairing cognitive function, which is why some believe leaf blowers lower your iq.

[00:36:49] Jordan Harbinger: What so noisy environments could actually be setting kids back in school?

There's so many jokes I could make about leaf blowers in iq, but I feel like all of them are mean. It's a crazy that noisy environment could actually be setting kids back in school though. I'm worried about this.

[00:37:02] Jessica Wynn: I know, and but that's what all experts point to. So excessive noise. It can even affect baby's ability to understand sounds and develop language skills.

Just like those birds that are confused and can't do their original songs. Babies learn a lot from the sounds around them. So

[00:37:19] Jordan Harbinger: no, don't bring your baby on the subway. I guess

[00:37:22] Jessica Wynn: that's the moral of the story. God, those poor little things, they should definitely be wearing ear protection probably whenever they go out.

Maybe all of us should 'cause traffic noise can damage your hearing, just walking down the street. So if anybody ever says that they want flying cars. Point out to them that they exist. They're called helicopters and you don't want them in every driveway because they are insanely loud.

[00:37:50] Jordan Harbinger: The Star Wars universe must be so loud.

Maybe Princess Leia's hair was a medical sound barrier, but you think about it, everything was a machine. Everything flew.

[00:37:59] Jessica Wynn: They were like headphones. It would be nice though if we traveled outer space where there is no sound. Perhaps that would help. But here on Earth studies show living under those helicopter and plane flight paths, they have serious health effects.

Like I used to live near a hospital and when the helicopter came, it rattled this whole crummy apartment. I was lucky to not live there too long, but the neighbors who had lived there for like years, I think they were a little more high strung than they should be. Like living under a flight path is proven to increase stress and anxiety.

It elevates blood pressure. It can cause chronic tension, headaches. It's found to take years off the lives of people who live under them. I was shocked reading these studies. They even show that suicidal ideations are higher in people who live in prolonged exposure to aircraft noise.

[00:38:57] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, suicides related to noise pollution.

Man, I know it's, this is gonna sound insulting, but moving is probably a better consideration, right?

[00:39:06] Jessica Wynn: I know. Yeah. But unfortunately, usually it's low income neighborhoods that are bearing the brunt of noise pollution, and they're typically located near the flight paths, the highways factories. So moving is probably not an option and factor in like the disparity of healthcare for those communities.

It's easy to conclude that noise pollution disproportionately affects the poor, and there's just not much they can change. All jurisdictions have restrictions on airport noise with stricter limits at night and things, but that does really nothing. If your house rattles every time a plane takes off.

[00:39:46] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Could one bring a lawsuit on the grounds of being annoyed slash suffering actual health damage by living in a noisy neighborhood?

[00:39:53] Jessica Wynn: Oh, for sure. That happens in 2022 in Tokyo, residents won a whopping $22 million in compensation for health issues caused by persistent noise pollution from two US military bases,

[00:40:09] Jordan Harbinger: $22 million.

That's like the jackpot of noise complaints. And so with that amount, I'm gonna guess it wasn't some US Marines dog barking all night.

[00:40:17] Jessica Wynn: No, no. It was about the constant industrial noise and the artillery blast. Oh my gosh. Were affecting like the local's health. Yeah. That'll do it. That is so loud. Yeah. Wow.

So the EPA and this old piece of legislation called the Noise Control Act, they're at the heart of a noise pollution lawsuit here in the United States. So

[00:40:39] Jordan Harbinger: it's Is this a lawsuit against the EPA?

[00:40:41] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, for sure. So last June, this anti noise advocacy group called Quiet Communities, they sued the EPA for not doing its job.

They said that they were supposed to be limiting the sounds people are exposed to in everyday life and argue that. The EPA is failing to enforce this noise control act of 1972, which that's what it was all supposed to be doing, just protecting us from harmful noise. And so the group is now waiting to hear if it'll be able to argue the case in front of the district court in dc.

So

[00:41:14] Jordan Harbinger: the EPA was supposed to keep our ears from bleeding in our hearts from exploding, but they kind of dropped the ball,

[00:41:19] Jessica Wynn: pretty much the federal effort to control noise. It started out well. It had really good intentions, and that noise legislation was passed in 72. Then the EPA set up the Office of Noise Abatement and Control, and they quickly got to work studying noise making regulations, including one to limit noise from garbage trucks.

That was like their mission when they first started,

[00:41:45] Jordan Harbinger: 1972. So 50 years ago. So we've been aware of this problem for 50 plus years. I. And we're acting on it. That's good news, but it's a little slow if you ask me.

[00:41:54] Jessica Wynn: That was how it started. Oh, no. Yes. Scientists have been sounding the alarm for years, but it wasn't Heard over all the noise because I see what you did there.

That was 72. Thanks. In 1981, the Reagan administration, one of the first things they did was rescind the garbage truck regulations. They defunded the noise abatement office and claimed that local governments should handle it.

[00:42:20] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's right on brand for the Reagan administration. That totally tracks every time.

We do. Skeptical Sunday, every time. It seems like something that the government was doing to help people. Got the kibosh during the Reagan administration and I don't remember any of it, of course, 'cause I was watching Sesame Street back then. But Reagan gets a lot of shrift on Skeptical Sunday for like, well, we did have a thing where you couldn't just dump random amounts of lead in the water, but Ronald Reagan was like, nah, local governments will totally just watch out for that and then fly back

[00:42:47] Jessica Wynn: to the state.

Yeah, yeah. It's such a bummer because the studies back then, they were on top of it. They showed harmful effects from noise pollution. They showed there was heart disease and learning disorders and just beginning to accumulate all this evidence. So they were on track to consider noise limitations on things like jackhammers, lawnmowers, air conditioners, vacuum cleaners, chainsaw, anything like that we would buy would have been a lot quieter.

And a major piece of the program was the education of the public. We would've avoided a lot of damage, said Charles Elkins, who headed this office from 1975 till it was closed in 81. The office remains defunded to this day. Quantifying the exact impact here is challenging because of the poor measuring and monitoring,

[00:43:34] Jordan Harbinger: and now for some noise pollution from our sponsors.

We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help with Thanksgiving around the corner. I've been thinking about all the things I'm grateful for, and at the top of that list are our two young kids, ages two and five. They just bring so much joy, also a little bit of chaos into our lives from their endless energy, wild imaginations.

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[00:44:31] Jen Harbinger: Let the gratitude flow with Better Help. Visit better help.com/jordan today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. HE p.com/jordan.

[00:44:40] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by AG one.

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[00:45:41] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support this podcast are all searchable and clickable over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show now for the rest of skeptical Sunday. So wait. That means we're not even sure how bad it is in the US because we haven't really been keeping track, and that is one way to make a problem go away.

Just stop measuring it, I guess. Geez, American way. Yes. Yes, exactly. We don't measure this, so it's not an issue we're focused on. Okay.

[00:46:16] Jessica Wynn: The US hasn't funded noise control or any kind of research since the eighties. So if you live with an earshot of an interstate highway, if your child's school sits next to train tracks, if your neighbor's out there wielding the gas powered leaf blower, like you're just outta luck.

It's somehow socially unacceptable to be the neighbor asking to turn it down.

[00:46:38] Jordan Harbinger: But there are some regulations and noise ordinances. There's grounds for lawsuits here. At least in some places, right?

[00:46:45] Jessica Wynn: The noise control office was defunded, but the act is still there, and it requires federal entities to report their noise levels and considers noises above 80 decibels to be excessive.

So this does give the EPA the authority to regulate noise from major sources like construction equipment, vehicles like motorcycles, but it's just not enforced.

[00:47:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But loud pipes save lives, bro. That's what my biker bros tell me. And, and I'm kidding. And eye rolling when I say that because motorcycles set off car alarms in my neighborhood all the time.

And there's this dude who, oh, that's so annoying. His bike is extra loud. It's this older guy and he doesn't wear a helmet. I'm just like, you don't even care about yourself, let alone anyone else. And it's so loud. It's not even like a regular bike. It's so loud. It scares my kids, and it ruins countless takes of shitty dad jokes on this very podcast.

[00:47:34] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, motorcycles are so loud and motorcycles and rock bands, they have destroyed a lot of young people's hearing, and since 1982, there has been a federal regulation requiring motorcycles to have EPA approved mufflers at all times, but lack of funding and resources, it's really challenging for communities to enforce that and mitigate.

Any noise impacts that fear your kid has experienced from his motorcycle? It's not crazy. It's a totally natural response.

[00:48:05] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You see that same fear in every pet in America on the 4th of July from all the fireworks noise. I always felt so bad for my dog on the fourth, he'd spend the whole night in my lap and shaking.

It was just awful.

[00:48:15] Jessica Wynn: Oh, every dog or people with PTSD, like when they hear that, what that triggers.

[00:48:20] Clip: That's true.

[00:48:21] Jessica Wynn: There's this terrific documentary that demonstrates how noise is used to create threat and fear in animals to drive them away from fields and cities. So it's like that same idea when music's blaring outside businesses to deter loiters.

[00:48:34] Jordan Harbinger: I've seen that in action. There was some sort of weird high-pitched sound near a sign, and there's other places that have teens loitering, and there's this stuff that actually doesn't bother me anymore. 'cause I guess I'm too old, but I've seen this in action. I know blaring music is used in warfare or like at Guantanamo Bay or whatever, or Abu Grave or something.

Imagine being the artist whose music is used to scare off teenagers or like Al-Qaeda. Oh,

[00:48:58] Jessica Wynn: what? Glaring nickel back to get the hosts released. Our music's really popular with

[00:49:03] Jordan Harbinger: the US military actually. They just use it to blast it. ISIS, because it drives them crazy weapon shot. They get sniped when they come out of hiding.

[00:49:10] Jessica Wynn: Hey, no bad press, right? Yeah. Yes. Noise is an expression of power, and that's been well understood for millennia. So those motorcycles and cars with an extra loud roar are stereotypically seen as a symbol of power and,

[00:49:32] Clip: excuse me, excuse me. Hey, asshole.

[00:49:38] Clip II: You guys know that when people like you drive down the streets with your unnecessarily loud motorcycles thinking you're all cool, everyone is actually laughing at you and calling you pathetic. You do realize this, right?

[00:49:48] Jordan Harbinger: If people are annoyed or intimidated by it, that's too bad for them.

[00:49:52] Clip: Yeah,

[00:49:54] Clip II: no, no, no. Nobody is intimidated. Actually, everyone realizes that. People who are so needy for attention, they need to dress up and be as loud as possible. Are you guys and 16-year-old girls.

[00:50:04] Jessica Wynn: At the local level, it's difficult to keep the roar to a minimum. In 2022, after six years of activism, a ban on gas powered leaf blowers finally went into effect in Washington dc It's frustrating because on a national level, a federal body like the one Reagan cut, could have researched the damage from leaf blowers, identified alternatives sponsor the development of quieter electric leaf blowers and phased in regulations.

So we weren't all suffering from this noise every day.

[00:50:38] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, and I think I remember in our episode that we did on lawns, our Skeptical Sunday on lawns, leaf blowers, they pollute more than cars because it's just unfiltered. It's an inefficient little engine, and it spits out unfiltered, untreated. Emissions.

It's also handheld, like on your person. So if you're using one, you're basically just like sucking on a car exhaust. And if you're around it, you know you're sucking on exhaust. And that's in addition to the dirt and toxic crap. Break dust that it's blowing from the street up into the air where you can breathe it.

'cause it's already on the ground where it's more or less harmless. Like it sucks 'cause it's in the water eventually, but at least you're not inhaling it. And it's like, I need to get these leaves off my driveway and I can't use a broom because I'm too lazy, so I'm just gonna blast this toxic cloud into the air.

So it's noise and everything else as well. I just, ugh,

[00:51:22] Jessica Wynn: madness. When there's a guy on one end of the block blowing it north, and then there's a guy on the other end of the block blowing it south. It's like, what exactly is the point?

[00:51:32] Jordan Harbinger: No

[00:51:32] Jessica Wynn: here.

[00:51:33] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, it's wild. Nothing quite says this. Your problem now quite like a leaf blower.

It's just. The epitome of not solving the problem at all. Don't even get me started. I could do a whole episode on leaf blowers and it would just be me yelling at the clouds

[00:51:46] Jessica Wynn: as a leaf blowers. Like disrupting the podcast. Exactly.

[00:51:50] Jordan Harbinger: Back to your point. It is so true. The public understands so little about noise pollution, myself included.

There's a disconnect to get people to care because we think it's more like a minor inconvenience when it's a legit health issue.

[00:52:01] Jessica Wynn: I mean, it's so true. There's this growing awareness of the issue mostly in Europe where studies are linking noise pollution to broader environmental impacts in the United States.

We should be assessing the decibel levels of everything from household appliances to traffic to those leaf blowers, but it's just not happening. And I will say the activists in DC worked really hard, and I think it was in, it's either Vermont or New Hampshire. They're the only state that's outlawed leaf blowers.

We just need to get it on the ballot because I think it would be such an easy. Thing to get rid of, you know, good start.

[00:52:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you're right. It would be a good thing to cut. And I know Adam Corolla said this and he got canceled, so I'm gonna try and do it in a different way. They were talking about this, about how they should outlaw leaf blowers and he said, oh, it's basically, it's a tax on Mexicans.

And what he meant was the landscapers who are often from South America are the ones that use leaf blowers. And if they can't use that, then they are somehow losing. But I feel like first of all, leaf blowers are killing those people who are using them. It doesn't matter what ethnicity you are. Of course.

And also they could use a broom and if they get paid hourly and it takes longer. Okay. I'm just, I'm not convinced that it's like racist to get rid of leaf blowers. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. I think it's just a health issue for everyone, and I can't believe noise pollution is so overlooked in environmental discussions.

It's like people are so busy freaking out about air and water that they forget about this constant chaotic din Just blaring in the background,

[00:53:32] Jessica Wynn: everything you said, you just nailed it. We know this is happening like just in 2021, a French study found the effects of noise pollution even more damaging than air pollution.

[00:53:44] Jordan Harbinger: Really,

[00:53:45] Jessica Wynn: don't get me wrong, all pollution created equal, I guess. But air pollution's a massive problem. Of course, that causes respiratory issues, the whole deal, but there's a lot more going on with noise pollution. And in just this past July in 2024, a bunch of scientists, research groups and the UN put out statements calling for more noise regulation, but without federal action here in the US than without funding.

Progress is so limited, like really limited in the us.

[00:54:15] Jordan Harbinger: Is noise pollution addressed in the infrastructure bill? We always hear about construction projects, but what about hearing that construction?

[00:54:23] Jessica Wynn: I know I did a scan of the document and the bill completely fails to mention the word noise at all.

[00:54:31] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, great.

[00:54:32] Jessica Wynn: Yeah, so major environmental organizations have not stepped in to do research or push for policies as they have for air and water pollution. And the reason suspects, Dennis Hayes, who is like a legendary environmentalist, he created Earth Day. Oh wow. Yeah, he's cool. He says that. The whole reason is money.

So people are inclined to donate to environmental organizations and they're expecting to adopt a cuddly panda and save the whales and plant trees, not fight highway noise

[00:55:07] Jordan Harbinger: like that. They're also a part of, exactly,

[00:55:10] Jessica Wynn: exactly. So he said, quote, when considered on a national level, noise just doesn't compete against other environmental problems for emotional intensity.

And I, I think that's so important. And the irony is just that like many sources of noise pollution come from people who claim to care deeply about the environment. They're recycling, they're composting,

[00:55:35] Jordan Harbinger: but they don't turn down the subwoofer in their Prius when they're blasting indigo girls or whatever.

And by the way, every Prius either has a Depeche mode sticker, an indigo girl sticker, or a coexist sticker. Not necessarily that order. I think coexist might be at the top of the pyramid on this one. Change my mind.

[00:55:53] Jessica Wynn: I think that's probably proven just driving around LA for sure. Yeah. But yeah, I mean there is this growing movement against noise pollution, but I think people just aren't aware.

So it's so slow going and implementing these measures to reduce noise, like adding it to the infrastructure bill so things are quieter, adding it to traffic management and urban planning. This could all have positive impacts on climate change by reducing emissions from transportation and just relieving a bit of stress on animals and humans.

[00:56:27] Jordan Harbinger: So while I'm waiting for the government to get its act together, let's say I live in a noisy neighborhood, what can I do? Just wear ear protection 24 7.

[00:56:35] Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Unfortunately, it's just not feasible for individuals to tackle noise pollution on their own. And of course there are those personal things we can do like earplugs or soundproofing, but broader policy changes are necessary and.

As our cities grow, so does the noise. So it's time we start thinking about solutions, like better urban planning and noise regulations. In India, they built this highway through the Pinch Tiger Reserve, which is a really famous reserve. It was the setting of Rudyard Kipling's, the Jungle Book, and it incorporates underpasses and overpasses to protect animals, and they built this four meter high steel wall, which forms a noise barrier to protect animals from noise and light pollution.

[00:57:25] Jordan Harbinger: Finally, a wall worth building.

[00:57:27] Jessica Wynn: Yes, definitely. We need comprehensive strategies like that. It'll result in better urban planning, stricter noise regulations, more investment in research is so important as we have it now. The future of noise pollution regulation, it's really uncertain, but increased advocacy and research.

It could help tune out this often overlooked issue, but in the meantime, that's just it. The solutions to noise pollution are straightforward. We just have to get those regulations enforced. Design quieter machinery, outlaw leaf blowers, people, and maybe just maybe learn to keep our own volume down.

[00:58:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Maybe if we all work together, we can turn down the volume and actually hear ourselves think, and yeah, maybe it's time we all start practicing the yard of being a little bit more quiet. Thank you, Jessica, for this. Yeah.

[00:58:17] Jessica Wynn: Thanks for listening to the sound of my voice.

[00:58:19] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, and remember folks, it's not just the volume that matters, it's the impact.

So stay informed, stay healthy, and try to keep it down out there. This is a neighborhood. Here's a trailer of our interview with Moby Iconic musician and producer. This was a super real conversation about creativity, fame, mental health, money, and what really makes people happy and fulfilled. Moy was really open with this one, and even if you're not a fan of the music, I guarantee you will dig this

[00:58:48] Clip III: episode.

I grew up in arguably the wealthiest town in the United States, Darien, Connecticut. But my mom and I were on food stamps and welfare. My first punk rock show was to an audience of one dog, and my first electronic music show was Two Miles Davis, and I wanted to stop the show and patiently explain

[00:59:06] Jordan Harbinger: to the movie stars and the beautiful people that they'd made a mistake.

They were celebrating me, but I was a nothing. I was a kid from Connecticut to wore secondhand clothes in the front seat of his mom's car while she cried and tried to figure out where she could borrow money to buy groceries. Now it was 1999. I was an insecure has been, but we kept playing and the celebrities kept dancing and cheering.

[00:59:25] Clip III: The weird thing is things started to go wrong. When I stopped feeling that way, 1999, I thought that my career had ended. Yeah, my mom had died of cancer. I was battling substance abuse problems. I was battling panic attacks. I'd lost my record deal and I was making this one last album, and I was like, okay, I'll make this album.

I'll put it out. I'll move back to Connecticut. I'll get a job teaching philosophy at some community college. And then all of a sudden the world embraced me. I handled fame and wealth, really disastrously. It was so humiliating. I wouldn't trade any of it. For more

[01:00:08] Jordan Harbinger: for Moby, including how he bounced back from a 400 drink per month.

Booze Abbot. Check out episode 1 96 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. Thanks everyone for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday can come right to me, jordan@jordanharbinger.com. Show notes@jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers deals and discounts, ways to support the show. All at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her substack between the lines, and we'll link to that in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.