953: We Did the Math — Our Colleague’s a Sociopath | Feedback Friday

953: We Did the Math — Our Colleague’s a Sociopath | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: This episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. Get your baby's butt into Huggies best fitting diaper. Huggies Little Movers. We got you baby.

[00:00:11] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my man who just got back from Japan, Gabriel Mizrahi. That sounds like a cheesy, non-roast, but you did just get back from Japan, so here we are. How you doing?

[00:00:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I’m good. I'm good. Severely jet lagged. I'm in rough shape, dude. I'm all over the place coming back. When I went there, I dropped into the local time zone immediately. But coming back, I'm up all night. I sleep till 10. It's been rough. But I'm good. I'm here. I'm so happy to be here, and I'm so excited to talk to you about this trip.

[00:00:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I am too. Because while you were in Japan, I planned a trip to Japan, in March.

[00:00:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, nice. Dude. Amazing.

[00:00:48] Jordan Harbinger: We'll be doing some snowboarding there. I'm learning how to snowboard at age 44 because I don't care about my health at all and wellbeing — out the window.

[00:00:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: I love it.

[00:00:56] Jordan Harbinger: On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people, and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from cold case homicide investigators, hostage negotiators, astronauts, music and tech luminaries, Hollywood directors. This week, we had Anna Lembke on Dopamine Addiction. How it all works in our brains. Some new insights here. Well — for me anyway, Really sort of cool in-depth look at the brain and dopamine. We also had Adam Grant on Hidden Potential. Why and how we should measure the potential of ourselves and others? That guy's super interesting. Who cares about the topic? It's Adam Grant. On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and tease Gabe for his highly compromised circadian rhythm.

[00:01:47] So Gabe, before we dooze, how was Japan, man? I think a lot of listeners are probably curious about that. Maybe they've never been there. Was it amazing?

[00:01:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was amazing. I don't even know where to start. I don't know how to sum this trip up. It was so incredible, dude. People told me all my — a bunch of my friends have been to Japan and they were like, "You're going to be overwhelmed by this place. It's so incredible. It's so stimulating." But I didn't really realize just how rich the country is. Although I've always loved Japan. I've always — Do you know, I did karate for 10 years, right? So —

[00:02:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But you did Taekwondo, which is Korean, so I'm not sure that — oh, wait. Or was — oh, why did I think you did taekwondo?

[00:02:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I did karate, yeah.

[00:02:22] Jordan Harbinger: Nevermind. I'm talking out of my ass, as usual.

[00:02:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Maybe. because I used to do weird kicks a lot.

[00:02:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:02:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not in front of you, but in general. I loved it. I loved all the ritual. I always had an affinity with Japanese culture. I just don't know much about it. But dude, first of all, the thing that really struck me when I got there, and nobody prepared me for this, was how quiet this country is. Do you remember that from when you went?

[00:02:43] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, no. Not really. I mean, sure when you're not like, in Tokyo. But No, not really.

[00:02:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Even in Tokyo, I mean, when you get on the subway, it is silent.

[00:02:52] Jordan Harbinger: Huh.

[00:02:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: People do not talk on the subway. They don't eat, they don't drink, they don't talk. And if they talk, they speak very quietly. It kind of creates this weird, beautiful sense of calm. It's almost like a meditation. I mean, some people are just like playing on their phones. But there's a — I don't know. It makes you kind of intentional and then — when you — if you do want to say something, you're like, "Well, I better be good. Because if I'm going to puncture this silence, I better have something meaningful to say." Which was an unexpected, beautiful thing. But I — it is quiet in restaurants. It is quiet at the airport. It is quiet — almost anywhere you go. And even on the street, people are so respectful of one another, and they're so calm and chill. Like, I didn't hear one car horn. I didn't hear one person yell at anybody. It was like, I was comparing it to New York in my head because two major international cities, right? In New York, it's a madhouse.

[00:03:40] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's insane. In Tokyo, this massive city with all these people who have to work around one another, it was just like so calm. That actually kind of made the biggest impression on me. And the silence, and the stillness, go hand in hand with the respect, and the appreciation for just tiny gestures. I mean, the way you hand somebody something, and the way you take it back from them.

[00:04:00] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is almost like a little ceremony. You know what I mean, right?

[00:04:03] Jordan Harbinger: You got to use two hands, right? They do that here. If you go to like, a sushi place, they'll hand you your credit card back with a receipt folded around it with two hands.

[00:04:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. And every once in a while, you forget that. And you hand them something with one hand, and then you're like, you feel like a total monster.

[00:04:16] Jordan Harbinger: You barbarian, how dare you?

[00:04:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. But man, I could go on and on and I don't want to take up too much time, but there was — it was funny, man. There was one day in Tokyo that really captured the full range of experience in Japan. So I was there with my sister and my brother-in-law, and in — one day, we went to go see a kabuki play. And I don't know how much you know about kabuki theater. It is — I don't really know much about it. I just knew the makeup, and the costumes, and it's very heightened. It is incredible. It was one of the best performances I have ever seen in my life, and I did not understand a word these people were saying. I had read up on the play in advance, so I kind of knew the plot, but I almost cried in this play. That's how beautiful it was. I — I'll just leave it there. But then, we went from there, way across town, to a show that we read about online that somebody said, "Just go to this show. I cannot explain what this is. It's for adults, but it's also kind of like a fun, playful kind of a romp of a show. So, just go and you'll have a good time, but I can't explain it." And we're like, "Cool, that sounds awesome. Let's go." We go, and it basically was like, I don't know how to describe it. Cirque du Soleil with a head injury.

[00:05:29] Jordan Harbinger: With nipples.

[00:05:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: But like — But yeah, basically. It was like this sort of dumb — I don't know how to say it. It was like, it was a performance with women who were doing like dance numbers, and musical numbers, and playing instruments, and but it was kind of, bad? But they knew that it was bad, so it was funny. And they were in on the joke of it, but they weren't —

[00:05:48] Jordan Harbinger: is it campy?

[00:05:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was very campy. Yes. But campy in that very Japanese way.

[00:05:52] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: With like, a little bit of the Harajuku thing mixed in, and a little bit of the like, "Rah, rah. We're so happy to be —" I mean, it was a lot of things. And then yes, it turned out to be way more risque than we thought, and it was actually basically a strip show at the end of it.

[00:06:06] Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

[00:06:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Every musical number started off, kind of like, a straightforward, earnest performance, and then at the end, devolved or evolved, depending on how you look at it, into a pretty explicit strip show.

[00:06:16] Jordan Harbinger: Geez.

[00:06:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: And the people who were there, I would say there were probably four women, five women in the audience, and the rest were all guys of all ages. I mean, I would say from about 25 to 80 years old.

[00:06:28] Jordan Harbinger: 80 years old? Okay.

[00:06:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like, these guys were so pumped to be there. I have never seen people more excited for a show in my life. Yeah, it was just a very weird mix of like, smutty, and also really sweet and funny, and I just — I'm like, you cannot see something like this in any other country. This is so uniquely Japanese. And we could not put our finger on what we were watching. And I still think about the show and I don't know what to make of it. And I — we loved it. It was amazing. But yeah, we didn't do — just do that stuff. We also did a traditional matcha tea ceremony in Kyoto?

[00:06:59] Jordan Harbinger: You love your matcha.

[00:07:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: I do love my matcha tea. And I love it even more now. Now that I understand the whole ritual and the meaning behind it. This thing went on for four hours, bro.

[00:07:09] Jordan Harbinger: The tea ceremony?

[00:07:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: The tea ceremony was in this dojo. Like a school for tea. Where they teach people how to do the traditional tea ceremony with all the steps, and you put the tea here, and you put the cup here, and you take the ladle there, and you place it down this way, and you fold the napkin this way, and you clean the pot this way, and you — I mean, it was exquisite, dude. I was blown away by it.

[00:07:32] Jordan Harbinger: Well, you can master that stuff. Like, you mentioned karate before. You can master that stuff. Tea ceremony is just like, yeah, it's like karate, kind of without strikes.

[00:07:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:07:41] Jordan Harbinger: So, when I was very young, I want to say like, first grader, kindergarten, we had all these Japanese kids that came because you know, auto area.

[00:07:48] So the suppliers or whatever, they would come and work with the Ford or GM guys. And so a lot of Japanese kids just like, went to my school, and they didn't speak English. And one kid's mom was a master of tea ceremony.

[00:08:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, cool.

[00:08:00] Jordan Harbinger: And she'd spent, you know, who knows, 20 years mastering this. And it was so interesting because I remember she looked like a ghost kind of, right? She had — well first of all, she had all this crazy makeup on and like, a kimono. But then she moved. It looked like she was floating and like, all these things were like very smooth and choreographed. She wasn't just like making tea. I was — I'd never seen anything like it. I probably never seen anything like it since either. Now that I think about it. It was unbelievable. And I remember thinking like, she was kind of half cartoon.

[00:08:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: :Mm-hmm

[00:08:30] Jordan Harbinger: Right? The way that she was. Also, it probably didn't hurt that I'd never seen like an adult Asian woman in my life either. So, but she was so good at this. And so, I can appreciate how much time and effort goes into mastering something, like the tea ceremony. Just knowing that, it's basically martial art without the martial. It's very much similar. Flower arranging. They do it with flowers too. It's whole thing.

[00:08:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. It really made an impression on me. The whole country made a profound impression on me. And every single day was filled with experiences like that where I was just like, "Oh, I'm learning a whole new way of treating objects. A whole new way of treating people. A whole new way of moving through the city. How to walk, how to sit, how to get up and cross a room." It was like, it brings so much appreciation to every little gesture. It was really funny though, you know when you go on a trip and you have an amazing time and you're like. "I can't wait to bring part of this country home with me"

[00:09:21] Jordan Harbinger: Every time, every time, yeah. "I'm going to kiss people to greet them now."

[00:09:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah,totally.

[00:09:25] Jordan Harbinger: And then, you're just a weirdo for a week. And you're like, "Nope, that's not going to stick."

[00:09:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: So, I decided to buy matcha cups, actual Uji tea matcha from Japan and with the whole whisk so I can make it. And I've been making it every morning and it's really — it's sort of kept Japan alive. But I also told myself, like in my heart, "I'm going to keep Japan alive." That I'm going to be so quiet wherever I go, I'm going to keep my voice very low.

[00:09:47] Jordan Harbinger: Sure.

[00:09:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm only going to speak if I really have something to say. And we got to the airport to fly home, and if you can just picture one of these massive, like in the Tokyo Airport, a massive terminal hall with like multiple airline desks. There were thousands of people trying to get their flight.

[00:10:01] Jordan Harbinger: Sure.

[00:10:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: And it is — this is what it sounds like in the airport. Like, no it's —

[00:10:07] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Even there, it's calm and quiet. And I said to myself, this is how I'm going to be. And I get to the gate area of the airport and suddenly, you start seeing, you know, tourists, and Americans, and westerner and the volumes going up and up. And I'm getting closer to my gate and there's this like annoying family fighting with one another by the gate, businessman taking his phone call on speaker phone, which as you know, dr —

[00:10:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:10:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Absolutely up the wall.

[00:10:33] Jordan Harbinger: Same, same.

[00:10:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm sitting in the airport, by the way, wearing a kimono pants that I had bought.

[00:10:39] Jordan Harbinger: Of course, of course.

[00:10:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, I just look like, ridiculous. But I'm like —

[00:10:44] Jordan Harbinger: You're like, "Damn all these tourists." As you walk around with like, your bongo that you picked up and your dig —

[00:10:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: I maintain that I'm the least annoying person in that airport, but you know, I do look a little ridiculous. But I started to feel the Japan leave my body and I was like, "I can't deal with any of these people." And I haven't really been all that quiet, but I do actually feel, yeah, Japan has stuck with me. I feel it still, in my mind and in my heart and I loved it. And I can't wait to go back. I would go back for sure.

[00:11:13] Jordan Harbinger: I'm going in March, actually. I got the snowboard bug.

[00:11:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh cool.

[00:11:16] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm learning how to snowboard at age 44 because I don't care about my joints or personal safety, whatsoever. And I've been taking lessons, then my friends were like, "Oh, you should meet us in Japan in March." And I was like, "Oh, I can't do that. I have kids." And they're like, Why don't you just try to get here?" And then I told Jen, and told Glen, and they're like, "Yeah, let's go to Japan." So now I'm going to Niseko, which is like mecca for snowboarding and skiing, for that matter.

[00:11:36] And I'm going to be there for five, more than five days. Just all on the mountain, taking lessons and hopefully improving and not getting injured, knock wood. But Japan is full of contradictions though, right? You have to admit that.

[00:11:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:47] Jordan Harbinger: Like you said, you go to the tea ceremony, but then you go to that weird pseudo strip show.

[00:11:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:11:51] Jordan Harbinger: One of the weirdest things from Japan — I went so long ago, I barely remember it. I just remember how crowded the trains were, where the guys with the white gloves shove you into the car.

[00:11:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-Hmm.

[00:11:59] Jordan Harbinger: That was interesting. They shove you into the subway to pack you in there like sardines. The other thing that was weird is, my ex-girlfriend, she worked at the U.S. Embassy, and she lived right in the middle of Tokyo in this compound where she had like a two-storey apartment all to herself, which is impo —

[00:12:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that's so dope.

[00:12:14] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, a family of Japanese family, there'd be like eight people living in that amount of space, right?

[00:12:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-Hmm.

[00:12:18] Jordan Harbinger: She just had an American house to herself, almost, essentially, in the embassy was security, in the embassy compound, I should say. And so, you could walk everywhere. And one day, she's like, "Oh, there's this place on the roof of a building in Tokyo. It's an all-you-can-eat beer garden. We should go there." So I went there with her. All-you-can-eat and drink two hours long. Sure enough, 30 minutes in, I'm like, "Well, I'm full." And she's like, "Yeah, let's just sit, have drinks, and relax and talk." I'm like, "Okay." So I go to the bathroom and I walk by, and there's sinks, and urinals and everything, just like a normal bathroom. And there's one big sink, like you have in a laundromat, right? Next to your washer where like people wash clothes and they're like, "Oh, that's — they have a janitorial sink right here. That's weird. It's next to all the other sinks." And I noticed it had like a garbage disposal in it. And I was like, "That's kind of weird." but anyway, you go to the bathroom, come back, and as I'm walking out of the bathroom, I almost bump into this like, distinguished older Japanese man wearing a nice suit. And he smiles and looks at me and he's like, "Oh, hello." And he like, straightens his suit a little bit. And as he does that, he turns right in front of that giant sink with the garbage disposal, and just pushes his fingers into the back of his throat and vomits all of the stuff that he had just eaten and drank, into that giant sink. Flicks on the garbage disposal, washes his hands, takes like a nice hanky, dries the corners of his mouth like nothing happened, rinses his mouth out with water. Doesn't even go to the bathroom, goes straight back out to the all you can eat and keeps eating. And I was like, "Oh, that's what this is for."

[00:13:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:13:44] Jordan Harbinger: It's a vomitorium sink.

[00:13:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep.

[00:13:45] Jordan Harbinger: So that if you haven't killed your two hour limit of eating and drinking, you can just vomit everything up, and go start over again. I did not take advantage of that. I don't know if I should have, but I couldn't pull the trigger.

[00:13:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, that level of ambition might explain why they tried to take over the world at one point. I don't know what to tell you.

[00:14:03] Jordan Harbinger: Unbelievable.

[00:14:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's such an interesting thing though, yeah. I mean, this culture is — I have to say, I don't know what to believe or feel about this place. Yeah. I loved it, obviously. I barely scratched the surface of Japanese culture. I was only there for 10 days. But yes, it is a place of profound contradictions. And it's also just so fascinating because you have that hedonism, and that like, bizarre — We can get into any bizarre fascination we want and different — you know?

[00:14:29] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: If it's sexual or food wise, you know, whatever. It's like, it offers it all. But then you can also go to these beautiful monasteries, and have these profound spiritual experiences, and it's all happening in the same city. I mean, you could walk from one to the other. I've never been in a place like that. Amazing.

[00:14:44] Jordan Harbinger: No, not knowingly anyway, yeah. Oh, you know what else is weird? My girlfriend — when I told her about that, she's like, "They don't have that in the women's room." I'm like, "Are you sure? Go check." Not in the women's room. Only in the men's room.

[00:14:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow.

[00:14:56] Jordan Harbinger: So if you're a woman, I guess you eat and drink a little bit —

[00:14:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like a normal person.

[00:15:00] Jordan Harbinger: Hang out like a normal person. And if you're a guy, you throw up in the garbage disposal sink, dry your mouth off, and go back and do it all over again. I don't know.

[00:15:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right.

[00:15:08] Jordan Harbinger: Or maybe women puke in the stall, and they're just expected to do that. I don't know. Now that I think about it, maybe that's it.

[00:15:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Possibly.

[00:15:14] Jordan Harbinger: I don't know how they do the eating disorder thing over there. Um, yeah, that's uh, that's Japan anyway. Should be fun in March. Let you know all about it. We should go together sometime. We'll have even more stories.

[00:15:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: I would love that. Yes we will. Incredible. I'm going back for sure. So, I am down.

[00:15:30] Jordan Harbinger: Alright, well, look man, you got the post-Japan doozies that's going to set you right.

[00:15:35] What's the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:15:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a woman in my early thirties and I work at a large teaching hospital. I assist in nursing our patients and teaching our students who are studying medicine, valuable skills and knowledge to help them advance to be doctors. This is truly my passion and my dream job. For the past two years, I've worked closely with a doctor named Jeff. Jeff was an average guy. Brilliant, good looking, funny, kind. All of the qualities you could wish for in a colleague.

[00:16:06] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe, sorry to interrupt, but I'm just chuckling at the fact that she's like, "He's an average guy." and then she's like, he was amazing. 10-10.

[00:16:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Amazing.

[00:16:12] Jordan Harbinger: Total catch. Do you realize that a brilliant, good looking, funny, kind doctor is not the average that we're dealing with these days. Come on, people.

[00:16:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: How high are the standards? That's hilarious.

[00:16:22] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:16:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think what she means is that, there was nothing crazy about him until whatever story she's about to tell us, so.

[00:16:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, sure, I get it. But still nothing unusual about him except he was so perfect and dreamy. Can we do nothing to impress you ladies? Come on.

[00:16:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: During the first year working with him, Jeff's parents tragically died in a car accident. This left him spiraling into depression and we were devastated for him. We supported him the best we could. We made him meals, had a buddy system checking in on him, gave him time off and comforted him as he mourned his family.

[00:16:53] Jordan Harbinger: Man, that is really sad. So y'all sound like amazing colleagues. Very sweet of you.

[00:16:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Uh, you might want to hold off until you hear how this shakes up.

[00:17:02] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, no. Okay. Fair enough. I should know better by now. Something's going to happen that's going to undo everything.

[00:17:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: You should. What are you doing? Stop chiming in.

[00:17:10] Jordan Harbinger: You're not wrong.

[00:17:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: A year later, just as things were looking up for Jeff, his sister committed suicide due to her depression following their parents' death.

[00:17:19] Jordan Harbinger: Geez.

[00:17:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: This was tragic and we all came together again to provide resources, love, and support for Jeff. Through all of this pain, Jeff continued working, despite many breakdowns and mental health interventions. We felt honored to be there for him during this tragic transition in his life. Then a month ago, Jeff came to work very intoxicated and under the influence of drugs. He looked like a completely different person.

[00:17:46] Once handsome and clean cut, he was now in front of our nurses, doctors, and students looking like a homeless man. He looked like he hadn't slept in days, his hair was disheveled, like he had been in a fight, and he wore baggy unkempt scrubs.

[00:17:59] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so the old Macaulay Culkin early 2000s look. That's really sad.

[00:18:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Such a sad turn. So she goes on, he created a scene, and unfortunately, we had to call the police. They said they couldn't remove him from the hospital because he was a current employee and wasn't causing any physical harm to anyone.

[00:18:16] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: This was concerning. So one of our doctors encouraged him to call somebody to pick him up. Thankfully, Jeff agreed through his disoriented and drunken state. The person who came to his aid was his dad. You know, the one who died tragically in a car accident.

[00:18:34] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my gosh. Wow. What a twist.

[00:18:42] That is one of the most appropriate uses of this sound soundbite that we've ever had. That is really insane. Okay, so obviously I knew something was going to go wrong, like it has to because it's Feedback Friday, but —

[00:18:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: But you didn't see that one coming, did you?

[00:18:55] Jordan Harbinger: No, I did not see that coming. Just keep reading Gabe. I'm grabbing my popcorn and don't worry, I'll chew quietly for you.

[00:19:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, if you could keep that to a Japan level, I'd really appreciate it. So she goes on, Jeff had lied to us. His parents were in fact alive and well, his sister too.

[00:19:12] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man.

[00:19:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: No one had died. No one had committed suicide.

[00:19:17] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Well, obviously I take back everything that I said before, fricking Jeff over here. This guy.

[00:19:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dr. Make 'Em Ups. Unbelievable. So she goes on, Jeff's girlfriend, another doctor at our hospital, became involved with this lie and contacted Jeff's father after he was removed from the property. And Jeff's dad wasn't alarmed in the slightest by this horrific story.

[00:19:40] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: He said that Jeff was a sociopath and had been diagnosed as a pathological liar. He's been this way since he was a young boy and has refused help or treatment.

[00:19:51] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. This is like a scene in a thriller where somebody normal completely snaps and the main character starts digging into it and some person from the past pops up and is like, "Oh, yes, he's been that way for years. He was a monster the whole time."

[00:20:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: I can just picture Jeff's father taking out a photo album on the living room couch, like pointing to some creepy childhood photo of his son like, "He was always different."

[00:20:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, 100 percent.

[00:20:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: The photo is sepia, right? And his face is kind of blurry, but you can just make out the darkness in his young eyes.

[00:20:27] Jordan Harbinger: "He told us his imaginary friend died as a kid. He used to help paint while studying for the MCATs."

[00:20:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. All right, so she goes on, of course, we are all stunned by this information.

[00:20:39] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: We feel angry and betrayed by Jeff who cried on our shoulders. Who came to our homes for dinner, who we comforted and checked up on, who we went out of our way to make sure was okay.

[00:20:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that is super unsettling. Can you imagine? Find out somebody you worked with for years, a doctor no less, lied to you, manipulated you, preyed on your sympathy, hid what sounds like a serious addiction. That's got to be an awful feeling. So of course, you're angry. Screw this guy. I'm angry for you. I get it. That is beyond creepy. Imagine having this guy in your house crying into your minestrone, and it's just nonsense. He just wanted minestrone. That's crazy.

[00:21:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: I am really struggling with this. I pride myself on being a kind and trusting person until I have a reason not to be.

[00:21:24] Jordan Harbinger: Like this one.

[00:21:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm ashamed that I never got a gut feeling and never felt uncomfortable around him. I feel like I've lost trust in humanity since this happened, and I worry that my kind nature will someday get me into trouble or seriously injured, or worse. Now, I can't help but constantly look over my shoulder and second guess if I truly know someone. All of which is hard because working at a large hospital exposes me to hundreds of strangers, I eventually become close with. How do I overcome this? How do I learn to trust people? Again, Signed, Not Feeling the Smartest and Coming Down on Myself Hardest After Being Burned by This Total Con Artist.

[00:22:02] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Just another banger of a Feedback Friday story — Dr. Jeff and his Web of Lies.

[00:22:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Sounds like the worst Marvel movie, ever. Frankly.

[00:22:11] Jordan Harbinger: It does, doesn't it? Except this one ends with the police escorting the supposed superhero out of the building. There's a pathetic element here. Obviously, we're hearing about a very troubled guy. Clearly an addict.

[00:22:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:21] Jordan Harbinger: Some kind of personality disorder, sociopathic tendencies, totally out of control. It's weird the parents were like, "Oh yeah, he makes up all kinds of stuff and manipulates everyone. Totally fine."

[00:22:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, think about how many instances of this they've seen over the years. They're probably just like, "Oh yeah, that's our son."

[00:22:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:22:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: And the fact that this guy is in charge of people's lives is very worrisome.

[00:22:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, very. Maybe you can be a decent doctor. Maybe even a good one if you're like a narcissist or possibly, a sociopath. But if you're showing up to the hospital — high, undersleep after a bender, massively lying to everybody about people around you dying to get sympathy, just a hot mess. I mean, this is the sort of thing you can and definitely should get fired for, if you're in a position like that and/or have your license revoked, I would think. This guy has no shame. I mean, those circuits just aren't there.

[00:23:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is a piece of the story we didn't really get. What happened after he was escorted out that day? I mean, I would hope the hospital took some kind of action.

[00:23:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, well, think about it. He comes back on Monday and everyone's like, "Oh, hi Jeff. Guy who lied to us for years about everybody dying."

[00:23:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, totally. How do you move forward from that?

[00:23:21] Jordan Harbinger: You can't. You can't work with that person. I mean, you got to put somebody like that at the bare minimum on administrative leave, and I would assume that. But I also think that it would be like, "You're immediately terminated. We just have to fax the papers to the right office and your access pass is done." Also, we don't know how his girlfriend, quote unquote, "Became involved with the lie." Like, she just manipulated into it. She contacted somebody and then his dad shows up like, "So you knew."

[00:23:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, unclear. Was she keeping up the lie on his behalf, or does that mean that he duped her as well?

[00:23:48] Jordan Harbinger: It was a little unclear. Yeah, and I'm very curious myself. But anyway, of course that's not why our friend here is writing in. Why you're writing in is, this whole Jeff fiasco has really thrown you for a loop. And like I said, I get it. You came into close contact with a very disturbed individual. You thought he was one guy. He was actually a very different guy. He completely deceived you and your colleagues. Apparently, he did it very well. So the fact that you guys were so kind to him that he might have invented these tragedies in order to secure your kindness, it just adds insult to injury. And what he did is very cruel. It's messed up. It's deeply weird as well. And it speaks more to his serious issues than it does to your kind and trusting nature. And I hope that's clear. We're going to highlight that a little bit here. Although, I do understand why this has given you real pause. Why it's made you question whether you should be as kind and trusting as you are. And I hate that it did that. I hate that. Because he's the one who should be going, "Hmm, why did I manipulate all these kind people?" Not you going, "Hmm, should I just be less nice and friendly to people in case everything they've ever told me about themselves is a complete and total lie?" No.

[00:24:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, exactly. But the problem is that, jeff has the personality disorder. He has the addiction, God knows what other issues he has. Which means he probably does not have that capacity to self-reflect and empathize. So she feels like it's all on her.

[00:25:08] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Whereas, you do have those abilities and capacities. You do have self-awareness and flexibility to change. Which means you're looking for ways to protect yourself, so this doesn't happen again. And I understand why this feels so urgent, since part of your job here is to assess people accurately, so you can treat them. So you're not crazy. If you ever came across another Jeff, it could be a real liability. But given that Jeff is the villain here, he essentially conned you, and not just you, but tons of people, from the sound of it. I think it's important to make room for a few different feelings here. You're feeling ashamed that your spidey senses didn't kick in around him. And look, maybe that's appropriate to a degree if you missed certain signals or discounted your instincts along the way, or if you should have picked up on certain things and you didn't because you just didn't have the experience to clock a con artist like this. Getting burned by the Jeffs of this world, that's usually how we learn that humans can be crazy. That's how we learn to develop a healthy skepticism and a heightened sensitivity to people. So yeah, there was something important to learn from all this. How duplicitous and dangerous certain people can be, and embracing that is why you had to go through this experience. But I don't know if you need to be ashamed on top of it. Because the shame tells me that you're turning a lot of this experience against yourself. Beating yourself up for not being unto Jeff sooner, or being too trusting, or too kind, basically for being vulnerable, like a normal, functioning person.

[00:26:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right, which does make some sense to me because being vulnerable can sometimes feel like weakness.

[00:26:39] Jordan Harbinger: I guess in a case like this, it is sort of a weakness because she came across a personality that wanted to treat it as such and exploit that.

[00:26:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:26:47] Jordan Harbinger: But that's the thing. He was the one who exploited it. So an equally valid response. Actually, a more appropriate response in my opinion, is to just be really freaking angry at this guy for doing that.

[00:26:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:26:57] Jordan Harbinger: And you know, make sure that his career is over. Not just ashamed that you trusted him, but furious that he took advantage of that very admirable equality in you and all of your colleagues for that matter. I think it's really important that you hang onto both of those feelings here. Because if you take all this on yourself, if all you do is turn it inward and go, "Well, I must be some kind of idiot for trusting him. Maybe I'm a fool for trusting anybody." Then I think you'll be missing a very crucial emotion. Which is your righteous anger at this literal sociopath, who treated you all like trash.

[00:27:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well said, Jordan. I couldn't agree more. The other thing you would risk doing here is overcorrecting.

[00:27:35] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally understand the impulse to re-evaluate. You know, how do I engage with every stranger I meet? I mean, how could you not ask yourself that question? But let's also remember that most people you encounter in the world at the hospital, they are not like Jeff. They might be flawed. They might be annoying. They might be self-interested. Everybody has their challenges. But the likelihood of coming across another sociopath of this caliber is pretty low. That might be cold comfort to you right now, but I do think it's important not to let your fear and your paranoia run the show after going through what you went through. It's wise to be appropriately guarded. It's smart to have some healthy skepticism. I mean, look, a patient could lie to you at the hospital to score some Oxy or a nurse you work with, who seems totally chill in the break room could be a total lunatic at home. So yeah, of course it pays to ask questions and to be ready for surprises, but that's different from doing a full 180 and going, "You know what? I can't afford to be kind anymore. I'm done trusting people because look where that got me." That would be an overcorrection, in my view.

[00:28:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, and it is interesting, the impulse to do that 180, that might also be tied to the shame piece. Because if she turns this whole Jeff saga inward, her wondering whether she should trust people anymore seems like a way to spare herself, the shame, and the self reproach of being duped more than actually avoiding any future Jeffs. This is not a logical decision like, "Okay, I got to do this less because it ends up in this." This is like a such a fluke thing.

[00:29:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's right. It's self-protection against those feelings. It's not Jeff-protection against any future sociopaths.

[00:29:09] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:29:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, shutting down your kindness and your trust would be unfortunate because I bet those are some of your best qualities as a nurse, as a teacher, as a human being, really. I think you have more to gain by continuing to be appropriately kind and trusting than you do by being suspicious and closed off.

[00:29:25] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: In my view, your job now is to bring these two qualities together. You know, you can be kind and you can be discerning. You can be trusting and you can be a little skeptical. You don't have to choose. The two are absolutely compatible. So I say, let yourself go through this phase of, "Wtf did I just go through?"

[00:29:43] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Let yourself have whatever reactions you're having to Jeff. They are all valid. But I would try not to double down on any one at the expense of the other. You get to choose how you want to meet people in this world. My feeling is that life will be a lot more rewarding if you keep meeting strangers with your best qualities. With healthy people, which is most people. You being kind and vulnerable is only going to bring out their best qualities. And when you see that, and you remember that the Jeffs are far and few between in this world, I think that'll teach you how to trust again.

[00:30:13] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. If you don't meet strangers with your best qualities, why would they meet you with their best qualities?

[00:30:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly.

[00:30:20] Jordan Harbinger: This is a great example of how people often create certain outcomes they say they want to avoid. I mean, if you meet somebody, and you're closed off and standoffish, how likely is it that they're going to go, "Oh, I should just be extra friendly and open with this person, or I should trust this nurse." People generally meet you on the terms and in the tone you implicitly signal to them. So if you shut down, I feel you'd be cutting yourself off from some really meaningful experiences with most people, just to what? Avoid ever confronting this one very rare personality type, again? And it might not even work, by the way. You might just attract more people who don't care about that vibe and are willing to just go for it, right? Like you might even be attracting more people who are sociopaths because they're not put off by your vibe, you know?

[00:31:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:04] Jordan Harbinger: They don't care. They're not reacting to you. I can't remember where I heard this, but human society turns on trust. We evolved to trust other people because it's the most efficient and beneficial way to exist in civilization. And that includes all of the risks of being duped by somebody who abuses that trust. So, nature, evolution, God, whatever word you want to use, has designed us in that way over millions of years, right? I know humans haven't been around that long, but you know what I mean. That's all the data I really need on this. There's a thought exercise here. Imagine all the people with whom you have great relationships right now who enrich your life. Imagine those folks. How many of those relationships would exist if you had chosen to shut down these qualities just a few short years earlier? Right? Think about everybody you've met that you're talking to in the last five years. You might be going, "Well, I wouldn't have this career. I wouldn't have this boyfriend or partner. I wouldn't have these friends." Is that worth it? In order to avoid having to make Jeff some fricking beef stroganoff to console him because of his fake dead father? No. So my take, shake off this one very bizarre experience. Learn from it as much as you can and just remember that most people, most people are not like this, at all. But now that you know what people are capable of, you'll be able to spot future Jeffs a lot more easily, or at least be less sideswiped if anyone ever does turn on you. So trust yourself to do that too. Man, I'm sorry this happened. That is so creepy. It is very hurtful. It's a great lesson, and I got to say, it's a hell of a story. I wouldn't mind an update on this one. Just like, "Where's Jeff now? Is he still working there? I hope not." If you take the right things away from this whole situation, I know it'll only make you more discerning and more compassionate without diminishing you or your relationships in the process. So good luck.

[00:32:53] You know what's a great way to fill the Jeff-sized hole in your formerly trusting heart? Buy yourself a few of the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:33:05] This episode is sponsored in part by Huggies. Huggies Little Movers are a game changer in our home. No, we did not have another baby. A few of you asked. Babies, as we know, I mean, I have two already, that's enough, that's plenty, coming in a delightful variety of shapes and sizes, including their little butts. I inherited a bit of extra padding from probably my mom. Sorry, mom. And it seems Huggies understands this diversity. They've mastered the art of crafting diapers that perfectly contour to our little one's active bodies. Offering a snug, stretchy fit that stands up to any leak challenge. Where they're dealing with urine, or let's say, uh, more solid matters. Huggies keeps everything contained. It's as if they're on a mission to outsmart those sneaky poop escapades, and they're ahead of the game. As for leak protection, Jayden loves his bedtime milk. You know where this is going. And despite having emptied his bladder before hitting the hay, yeah well, it's got its limits leading to potential nighttime surprises. Yet with Huggies wrapped around and we, we're all but guaranteed a leak-free, drama-free night. Although in the morning, that thing weighs like five pounds. For all you parents in search of a diaper that combines comfort and unmatched leak protection, look no further. Huggies Little Movers are here to help save the day, and the night. Believe me, your laundry load will thank you.

[00:34:04] Jen Harbinger: Get your baby's butt into Huggies best fitting diaper, Huggies Little Movers. We got you baby.

[00:34:10] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is sponsored in part by Audible. You guys know I'm constantly soaking up knowledge from the world's most intriguing minds. My not-so-secret weapon is Audible. It's like turning every moment into an opportunity to learn and grow. Whole library right at your fingertips. That's Audible for you. It's my go-to for all the — well, I'm usually reading non-fiction for the show. I read over a 100 books a year to prep for interviews. All thanks to Audible. Pretty much every single one is prepped using Audible. And I — Man, I often think if I had Audible as a kid, instead of zoning out in front of the tv, I could have been in an audio book adventure, absorbing some knowledge and inspiration instead of just watching Perfect Strangers reruns. I mean, you know, that did sort of shape my personality and give me the job that I have now. But think about it, I could have learned enough that I would've had a real job instead of being a podcaster. That would've been tragic. Maybe it's good that I only discovered this as an adult. But I love audio books for another reason, which is that text strains my eyes, it feels slow. And as I'm getting a little bit older, it's getting harder to do that, which is really depressing. But with Audible, I speed up the narration and multitask like a pro. Whether I'm out for a walk, I got a baby in one hand, I'm doing some work stuff, I'm always plugged into a great book. And Audible's got a crazy selection. From podcasts, to celebrity memoirs, to a whole range of wellness stuff, whatever you're into. And being an Audible member is the real deal. Endless library of titles to stream or download in the super user-friendly app. So try Audible for free, for 30 days. Just visit audible.com/jhs or text JHS to 500-500.

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[00:35:47] Now back to feedback Friday.

[00:35:51] Okay, next up.

[00:35:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 26 and my parents are both 67. Since I was four, my mom has been doing foster care and she formally adopted my older brother, who's now 30, and my younger brother, who's nine. My younger brother, has been worse than anything my parents have ever had to deal with. On one occasion he wrote, "F*ck you mom." on the side of her car with a rock, and smashed the back windshield.

[00:36:17] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh.

[00:36:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: He also accidentally knocked out one of my dad's teeth while having a meltdown. There are numerous stories like that, that have gotten him kicked out of multiple schools. My parents have tried taking him to numerous psychologists and special schools, but he only seems to be getting more violent. Since my parents are unable to physically control him, the police have had to be called on a regular basis whenever he throws a temper tantrum. He's never intentionally hurt my parents, but I worry that as he develops into a teenager, his violent outbursts could be directed towards them. Every single rule they try to enforce, results in some type of argument. And my parents inevitably go soft and let him get away with disrespectful behavior. He also has a pretty serious iPad addiction. My parents have caught him stealing it multiple times when he should be sleeping, but he's only getting more and more clever at getting away with behavior that makes him more dysfunctional than he already is. They tried medication, which seems to help for short periods, and even my brother seems to notice the positive effect it has on him. But still, with or without meds, one tiny thing can send him into a rampage.

[00:37:22] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh.

[00:37:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: My parents know that most of my brother's issues are not entirely his fault. Most of his mom's side of the family has either schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. And just about every adult in that family has some kind of substance abuse issue, including the mother who used while pregnant with him.

[00:37:39] Jordan Harbinger: Man, this is so sad. I mean, we are talking, to clarify once again, a 9-year-old kid who just did not have a fair start at life. The deck was so stacked, massively against him from the get-go. This is really heartbreaking. Ugh.

[00:37:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: My wife has been urging me to convince my parents to give up on him, but I don't think my parents would ever want to. My mom has also been raising him since he was just two months old, and it feels wrong to tell her to give up her son. But my mother has heart issues requiring a pacemaker, and my dad has fairly extensive medical issues that have me worried for both of them. I also know that the energy that they put into my brother could probably be used to help a dozen more kids, and allow my parents to live longer. But whenever I gently bring up the subject, they always brush it off, saying that they get lots of help from the police and from the foster care organization. But the brunt of the work still falls on them. I understand that what my parents are doing is truly a good thing for the world. And that the alternative would be leaving my brother to fend for himself in some group home orphanage, which would be incredibly sad. And possibly ruin whatever chance he has to grow into a half decent person. My parents also love him very much, and ultimately, it's their life. But my wife points out that I could lose them earlier than necessary. And that my brother still might not turn into a functional adult. We also worry that if my parents' health were to worsen, my older brother and I would be called for support. And neither of us has the bandwidth to deal with him even for short periods of time. Should I try to convince my parents to relinquish responsibility for my brother, for the sake of their health and happiness, or let them continue to fight a seemingly losing battle and respect their decision? Signed, Watching My Adopted Brother Slowly Put My Parents Six Feet Under.

[00:39:28] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, what a sad story.

[00:39:29] Sad for your parents who have to spend so much time and energy taking care of your brother. Sad for you to watch him act out, to watch them struggle to respond to him. And sad for your brother. I mean, the kid is clearly suffering. It's just so tragic. At the same time though, I do understand why you feel this conflict. It must be so hard to watch your aging parents give so much of themselves, and possibly compromise themselves for a difficult child who sometimes, just seems like a lost cause. Not to mention they're older, right? This kid's nine. It would be hard to raise a, well-behaved 9-year-old when you're 67 or whatever.

[00:40:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:05] Jordan Harbinger: We wanted to run this by an expert, so we reached out to Nancy Yen, marriage and family therapist and adoption expert. And the first thing that Nancy shared with us was, it's important to remember that children need their caretakers more than caretakers need children. They need them for basic survival, of course, but also to fulfill their emotional needs for healthy development. And in your brother's case, your parents are probably the only real family that he knows. They've raised him since he was two months old. This is a profound bond, an important bond, and a non-negotiable one at this moment in time, in my view. As Nancy put it, he's never going to not need a connection with his parents, with you, or with your other brother. Now, Nancy can't diagnose your brother or make any therapeutic recommendations, of course, but it's very clear that your brother's needs are intense and very complex. And to meet them, your parents have turned to the foster care system, to the police. Now, Nancy said that might be okay if these were short-term acute interventions, if the problem weren't getting worse. But the combination of your brother's unfortunate history, his explosive ways of getting his needs met, your parents' style of parenting, and Nancy's view, the whole dynamic, it just sounds inefficient and unsustainable. And the fact that your brother's behaviors are happening in other environments too, like school, that also speaks to just how big the problem is. But my question is, where do things go from here? What's going to be the effect of all these visits from the cops, every time your brother has a tantrum? I mean, he's nine right now, right? If something doesn't change, it's not entirely crazy to imagine that that could create a relationship with law enforcement that might set 'em up to move through the revolving door of the criminal justice system, which is also deeply sad.

[00:41:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good point.

[00:41:46] Jordan Harbinger: We kind of know that jails and prisons are full of adults with mental health challenges — traumas, struggles with self-regulating, functioning in society, all that. And it would be even more tragic if he ended up there instead of finding the right support. Just hearing like, "Oh, it's fine. We get a lot of help from the cops." that's kinda like, "Maybe we shouldn't keep gasoline in a big bowl in the kitchen. No, it's fine. We can just call the fire department." Okay, but you know, maybe don't have the bowl of gasoline. So Nancy's take on this point was, maybe let's not make law enforcement, your little brother's unofficial co-parents. And I obviously agree. In my view, that is something you can bring up with your parents. Maybe you can ask them whether these visits from the police are really helping, whether they worry about what they might be doing to your brother, whether this is really a healthy and sustainable way to parent. So look, again, I understand why you find this so worrisome. If I were in your shoes, I'd be super concerned about my parents too. I mean, your dad lost a freaking tooth. Who knows what that kind of stress does to your mind? Your body? Things could get worse. And I can also understand your argument that the energy they put into helping your brother, could be used to help dozens more, and allow them to live longer. I understand that sentiment as well. But the reality is, your parents made a commitment to this child. A noble and beautiful commitment. And one they presumably made, knowing full well what they might be getting into. And I personally just don't see how they can abandon him. Not right now, not at age nine.

[00:43:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:43:15] Jordan Harbinger: If he's 19, and he's assaulting them regularly, and he is committing crimes, or he is bringing drugs into the house, if he's old enough to know better and consciously work on himself, that's a different conversation. But man, we're talking about a 9-year-old. He's not in control of himself yet. He needs your parents. They signed up for that. So, Nancy's opinion is that there might be some hope here if you hold the idea that, "Children do well, if they can." That's actually a phrase coined by a psychologist named Dr. Ross Greene. Nancy told us about him when we talked to her. Apparently, Dr. Greene developed a way of working with families with children who exhibit explosive behaviors like your brother. And in his model, there's still hope because he's only nine. And people with histories of mental health challenges can do well with proper medication and therapy. In fact, Nancy told us there are somatic and neurofeedback modalities that help children who've had perinatal and prenatal or any pre-verbal trauma, including the trauma of separation from birth parents. There's also hope because your parents love him, and they don't want to give up on him. And that's kind of the best thing that he's got going in his life, right now.

[00:44:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:18] Jordan Harbinger: So having an honest, open, collaborative conversation with your parents about finding the right resources, that's the best way to take care of him and give him the best possible shot. Her first suggestion — start by becoming more curious about what your parents are going through, how they're thinking about your brother. Your parents brush it off when you bring up this subject, and I can understand why. As Nancy pointed out, most people wouldn't dream of giving up on their birth children, even with challenges this big. So framing this in terms of giving up on your adopted brother, relinquishing responsibility for him, it's a little simplistic and it's probably just a non-starter for your parents. You're going to butt up against this and get nowhere.

[00:44:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Nancy was pretty emphatic on this point. In her view, adoption is a commitment for life. Even if your brother never turns out to be a fully functional adult, that doesn't make a good argument for giving up on any child, in her experience, because every child deserves a family. Also, your parents have not exhausted all of their options yet. So jumping straight to, "Eh, I think you guys should maybe give up on him." that's probably very hard for them to hear, and it's way too soon. So, Nancy's general insight here was, you might want to consider changing the narrative. Moving away from the binary solutions of giving up versus fighting a losing battle. Now, this isn't easy, but Nancy would invite you to explore something more like, finding sustainable solutions for your little brother to have his family and grow up healthy and functioning. And that's a very different conversation with your parents. And it's a very different way of making decisions about him. I think that's going to lower your parents' guard a little bit when it comes to talking about this, and it'll probably create more room for you guys to actually discuss the best way to take care of your brother. And also how this situation is affecting the whole family, including you. And that also means getting clear about what your parents' expectations are of you and your older brother in the future. This is a really important question that you've brought up. Who is going to be responsible for your little brother after your parents are gone? Or if anything ever happens to them while he's still a minor? I mean, who's on deck, right? Like how would you guys handle that? In this conversation, Nancy said that you can share your capacity for helping to take care of him, and you can also share your limitations if he does continue down this path. But you can also talk about your fear of losing connection with your parents as a result of all of this. I mean, there's a lot in the mix here beyond just, how do we fix quote unquote, "My little brother." This might not be an easy conversation, but even if you don't have the final say here, I do think it's important that you share your concerns, and that you guys come together and figure out what the plan is.

[00:46:48] Jordan Harbinger: And if you all need some help here, Nancy had one big practical recommendation which is, you guys might want to seek out a good family therapist slash social worker slash mental health professional slash case manager who specialized in working with families like yours, and that's a lot of slashes. I know. These folks might be able to assess the protective factors and risk factors here. Help your parents work with the right supports to find better solutions. Connect you guys to community resources that are better than, say, "Calling 911, every time he has a meltdown over the iPad." Depending on your area, they might be provided by the foster care system, the Department of Youth Child Services, and/or other family related agencies. I would definitely encourage your parents to look into this. And if it feels sustainable, and they're open to it, maybe you and your other brother help them connect with these people.

[00:47:36] So that's our take. Giving up on your brother isn't the right move right now, and it doesn't sound necessary right now. It's time to talk to your parents, openly, lovingly, about finding better supports to take care of your brother the way he deserves, and really the way they deserve. Because I don't think this situation is working for anybody right now. And look, even if a day comes when your parents decide to relinquish some or all of their responsibility for your brother, Nancy pointed out that the relationship and caring don't have to end. They might just look different. Parenting duties evolve as a child becomes an adult, depending on a child's ability, their character, their life stage, their ability to function well. But that conversation is still a ways off. Focus on this one, first.

[00:48:16] Big thanks to Nancy Yen for her wisdom here. Nancy is now providing private virtual consulting and therapy, and you can learn more about her and her practice at nancyen.com. That's nancyen with one y.com.

[00:48:28] One final note here, I don't want you to feel like we're shaming you for asking this question. I totally understand the sentiment that comes with, "Hey, let's get rid of this kid. He's adopted and he's annoying and he's going to kill my parents." Like, I get it. I know I'm oversimplifying, but I don't want you to feel bad for having that thought. Because that certainly occurred to me as well as I was reading this letter. But I realize that it's unfair because he's so young. Time might prove that this is not something that can be solved. So, I just don't want you to feel like a bad person, for asking, and I don't want you to think that we think that, because I don't, I get it.

[00:49:03] You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use the descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If your ex-spouse is turning your child against you, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you're debating whether to sign off on your sextortionist plea deal, whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up at friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:49:26] Okay, next up.

[00:49:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys. Last year after getting divorced, I had to temporarily move out of my home. A colleague of mine, let's call him Chris, offered me a small rental unit at his house that was going up on Airbnb. I told him that I would be needing it for two months and that I would be going away to see my family for a month after that. He said, "That was great." because he had relatives coming to visit. Before I left, I asked whether it would be possible for me to rent the place for another month when I got back. There were no issues from his side. I cleaned and vacated the property and left for the holiday. Fast forward a couple months and Chris sent me a text saying that I missed my payment for the month I was away. Baffled, I replied that we didn't have a rental agreement for that month. We don't have a written lease, but I referred to all of our conversations, documented via text. Those didn't help, so I vacated the property the next day. I offered to pay for storing some of my belongings while I was away. When he refused that offer, I offered to pay for half the rent. Again, he refused. A few days later, I was sitting in my office working and he came in, closed the door, and started discussing this matter, angrily. I kept saying that I had said what needed to be said and my offer still stood, but he refused again. After that, Chris ignored me and pretended I didn't exist, which was extremely awkward, especially in meetings at work.

[00:50:50] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm. Okay. Super immature,

[00:50:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ridiculous. Later I got a letter saying that he'll be dragging me to small claims court. At this point, I was already battling my ex-husband with lawyers to avoid divorce court, which was really hard on my mental health. Which all of my colleagues, including Chris, knew. I started getting anxiety and finally I had a panic attack at work.

[00:51:13] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. That's rough. I can see how this would create a pretty stressful environment.

[00:51:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was advised to talk to my boss about this, but she said that this is a difficult situation to deal with as, it's a private matter. She suggested counseling to resolve things, but I'm hesitant to give that a try as being in the same room with this guy is bad enough.

[00:51:30] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is not the only lawsuit Chris is involved in. The other one is against a couple who bought his former residence. The man got in a horrific accident less than a week after they won the auction and became severely disabled. The house purchase got annulled because he would no longer be able to access the building with his disabilities. And Chris is contesting the annulment in court.

[00:51:52] Jordan Harbinger: Huh, interesting. I mean, I could see that going either way. Sometimes, big transactions get contentious and you need to play hardball, but it really does sound like a pretty crappy thing to pull with somebody who has a legit reason for backing out of a purchase. I think what you're saying is, that Chris is antagonistic and has a pattern of creating legal headaches. So Yeah, I'm getting that picture too. I personally can't imagine suing somebody that a week after winning an auction —

[00:52:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Got hit by a car and cannot walk? Yeah.

[00:52:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's like, okay, put the thing up for sale and maybe you charge the guy the fees.

[00:52:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:52:23] Jordan Harbinger: Or the difference in the sale price between what he would've given you and the new buyer. But you're just going to sue the guy? I mean, you're an a-hole man.

[00:52:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Seems kind of heartless.

[00:52:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:52:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, in that other case with this guy who got disabled, he already lost the first court round and is now heading to appeals court with over $20,000 in legal fees.

[00:52:43] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Okay. So he's digging in for a fight. This really sounds like a person who's putting his ego and need to be right before any logic, and certainly before being a human.

[00:52:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. I'm getting that picture too. And this guy does not give up easily.

[00:52:56] Jordan Harbinger: No, he's a Jeff. He's a doctor Jeff, for sure.

[00:52:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's a Jeff. I started working from home and I'm now on sick leave, as I'm unable to focus at work. And I'm stressed to the point of getting headaches and shaky hands from just walking the halls. I have a PTSD diagnosis and I struggle with anxiety, which is why I've been seeing a psychologist for the past eight years. I love my job and I don't want to quit over this, but I don't see any solutions. Getting a similar position anywhere near my hometown is not possible. It would also be sad because I just spent a lot of time and effort to get my house at the end of the divorce. How do I manage the situation? Should I even bother? What would you do? Signed, Still Paying The Cleaning Fee on This Cursed Airbnb.

[00:53:39] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, well, I am certainly sorry you're going through this. I can hear how difficult this whole debacle has been. How it's activated some old wounds. If you had to go on sick leave because of this, that's pretty severe. I got to say, it's incredibly dumb that this guy is going to war with you over one month of rent on an Airbnb property. I mean, that's what, like two or three grand at the most, I guess?

[00:54:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: At the most, yeah.

[00:54:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He wants to drag you to small claims court to get it out of you? When you have documented conversations that you are not on the hook for that month, and spend his precious time and money, and compromise his relationship with a colleague, and damage his reputation at work. This guy is just a real a-hole. There's no getting around it. And not just an a-hole who's probably obsessed with money, but somebody who probably can't stand quote unquote "Losing" Who might even enjoy, I'm getting the feeling going to war with people like you, and like this guy who nulled the house auction. Real talk, I despise people like this. This is a dangerous combination of stupid, egotistical and determined. And I am really sorry that you got tangled up with this guy. But here's the thing, people like this, they're bullies. And I cannot stand to see bullies win. The small claims case, that's going to go through its own process. You don't have much control over that, aside from presenting your case and trusting that a reasonable judge is going to go, "Uh, no, you're literally on record saying she wasn't on the hook for rent that month. Thanks for wasting everyone's time. Case dismissed." And you'll be free. And I really hope that happens. Sounds like you have a good shot. But what upsets me is that Chris is winning, so to speak, by making things so uncomfortable that you had to flee the office. You're taking the biggest hit, and he's just showing up to the office as usual. And if we're being totally fair here, that's not all Chris is doing. Yes, he's the primary antagonist here. If you weren't such a dick, none of this would be happening. Right? Okay. I acknowledge that. But there's also something about this guy that is very triggering to you, specifically. For reasons that I'm sure are valid and real, and the way you're working through the anxiety he brings up in you, or perhaps not working through it, that's playing a big role here too. Because another person in your shoes with different life experience, different chemistry, different tools, they might look at this guy and go, "Man, what a piece of work. This is super awkward. This is really unpleasant. But I'm going to have to ride this out, and find a way to get my work done despite him. And stay grounded in the fact that I'm in the right here." so, I'm not blaming you for being anxious. It is what it is. And I can hear how debilitating it is. But if you really want to manage this situation, your only option is to work on your side of the equation. Because it doesn't sound like Chris is open to having a reasonable discussion. And odds are he's not going to change.

[00:56:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally agree. I really feel that you owe it to yourself to figure out what it is about this guy that is so triggering to you. And how this experience is tapping into this old trauma. And work with your therapist on coping with the anxiety, finding ways hopefully to continue functioning despite it. And I'm sure you're already doing that. I know that this isn't news to you. But I have to say I'm very invested in you doing that work because A, this guy sucks. I hate him. B, you are objectively in the right here. And C, you deserve that growth. And this two bit lowkey con artist, this frigging diet Jeff over here, I mean, he can't win, right? Like I'm with Jordan, he just can't win.

[00:56:57] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: He can rattle you by dragging you to small claims court and he can get huffy with you in your office, but we can't let him win by driving you out of your workplace, and making you fantasize about selling your house and getting a job in another city. In fact, that fantasy is itself, a signal of the growth that you need to do. To stop finding ways to flee and to strengthen these muscles so you can build up your tolerance for another crazy person's anger. And also for the stress and the general discomfort that they create. And I know this isn't fun to hear, but in some grander cosmic sense, I think Chris was sent into your life to force you to do this work. Ultimately, all difficult people we encounter are.

[00:57:40] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. If it wasn't Chris, it would've been someone else. And if this case goes your way, keep in mind that you'll still have to deal with him around the office, and there's a good chance he'll be just as annoying then. Maybe even more annoying, because he'll have had his ass handed to him by a small claims court judge. So the solution here really does depend on you. Either that or hire Dr. Jeff from question one, to bump him off and make it look like a suicide in his Airbnb property or something. He could probably use the work after he gets fired from the hospital.

[00:58:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh wow. That That was dark. That was dark, Jordan.

[00:58:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that was dark. Even by dark Jordan standards. Sorry folks. I wish I had some better dark Jordan. Like a way to get Chris fired that wasn't totally dastardly and then it's like, "Oh, he doesn't have the money to deal with this anymore." But then he might just have more time and need the money more. So I don't know. I'm on the fence.

[00:58:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's funny, speaking of Dr. Jeff, I think our friend here could actually benefit from being just a little more Dr. Jeff in her personal life, you know?

[00:58:34] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:58:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Just like 5 percent more sociopathic. Just so she can learn how to not let other people's feelings, especially really terrible people's feelings, get their claws into her quite so much.

[00:58:44] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's interesting, just like our friend from question one, I think this villain has something important to teach her too.

[00:58:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Definitely.

[00:58:51] Jordan Harbinger: The question is, does she continue to hide or does she use him to grow? Sending you a big hug, wishing you all the best. You've got this. Definitely update us about the small claims thing. I'm so curious. I would love to hear how this goes.

[00:59:03] You know what gives me PTSD though, Gabriel? People who don't support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:59:14] This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Jen and I have been partners in crime for a decade plus, riding the wild ride that is life. We faced everything from the gut punch of a business pulled out from under us to the adrenaline rush and caffeine field nights of starting over, moving houses more times than we care to count, diving into the chaos of parenting two little humans through every twist and turn, we've somehow managed to not only stick together, but actually like each other a little bit more, I think. And I got to tip my hat to therapy for the secret sauce to tackle life's bitter moments and savor the sweet ones. It's a testament to the magic of professional help. BetterHelp therapy, which is there to ensure you don't have to navigate life's rollercoaster solo. Thinking about joining the therapy bandwagon? I encourage you to do so. BetterHelp is all online. It's flexible. Switch therapist anytime if it's not a perfect match. No drama, no fuss.

[00:59:57] Jen Harbinger: Become your own soulmate, whether you're looking for one or not. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan today to get 10 percent off your first month. That's better H-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[01:00:06] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by FlyKitt. Before FlyKitt entered my life, international travel meant grappling with jet lag for up to two weeks. But now it's basically a thing of the past. Fly Kitt arrives in a neatly packed pouch, complete with all the essentials, complimented by the FlyKitt app's detailed schedule. All you do is enter your flight details in an app and preferred wake up times, and then AI springs into action. Giving you the matrix, basically. Gives you a tailored plan, when to eat, what to eat, what supplements to take, best time to sleep. I follow this regimen for every international trip. The results are undeniable. It's not just in my head or placebo, whatever. It works really, really well, every time. Huge groups that I've traveled with have all taken it, except for like one or two people, and you can just tell who has and who hasn't. The stuff is great. The genius behind FlyKitt, inspired by research conducted with Navy SEALs, targets the inflammation caused by air travel. I know that's a little buzzword, inflammation, but it's a real thing. This can lead to symptoms like brain fog, fluctuating energy levels, and digestive issues. In other words, be tired and having the sh*ts. AI cleverly coordinates light exposure, supplement intake, mealtime and sleep based on your unique schedule and travel itinerary. Or maybe the opposite of having to go to the bathroom too much, actually. Why am I talking about this? The pack has everything. The app guides you every step of the way with timely reminders, ensuring you arrive at your destination, feeling refreshed and ready. My friend invented it. He's a genius. I use it every single time I travel internationally. It fricking works.

[01:01:23] Jen Harbinger: If you want to try it, head to flykitt.com. Remember, that's FlyKitt with two T's, so F-L-Y-K-I-T-T.com. Use promo code JORDAN for a 15 percent discount. flykitt.com promo code JORDAN

[01:01:36] Jordan Harbinger: If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are in one place, jordanharbinger.com/deals. Or you can email me, I'm jordan@jordanharbinger.com. I can find any sponsor for you. You can't remember the name, you can't find the code. I'm happy to do that for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show.

[01:02:01] Now, back to Feedback Friday.

[01:02:06] Okay, next up.

[01:02:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 32 year old father and I have a great family, interesting hobbies, a group of close friends, and a good career in finance. In general, I would say I live a normal, happy life. The one thing that's bothering me though is that I got hooked on HHC, a synthetic cannabis derivative that I vape. It's legal and widely accessible in my European city, at least for now. I take a puff or two every evening, microdosing basically, to relax, unwind and reflect. It started about a year ago and since then, everything in my life started to go significantly well. I've landed the best job I've ever had, and I'm doing really well in it. I feel more emotionally stable, focused, clear and mindful. I'm able to manage the irritable part of me much better than before, which has had incredibly positive impacts on my relationships. I also kicked my alcohol habit, that took way too much of my energy and kept me down for a long time. My mood elevates, and I become more observant and accepting. I function at a 100 percent. And I engage beautifully with my kids even when I come home tired after work. My wife, who's a doctor, is happy that I quit alcohol as she was always rightfully worried about its impacts on my health in the long term. She also seems to enjoy this new, calmer and more understanding side of me. I'm also worried that if I quit HHC, I'll go back to alcohol. But I wouldn't be honest if I said that I'm not addicted to HHC. I can stay away from it for a couple of days, but if I have an opportunity, I take a hit. I feel some shame about this. I'm a grown man, but I'm vaping ganja like a kid. It doesn't correspond to the image of the serious and composed man I always wanted to become. I feel guilty, stupid, and weak for always being addicted to something. Also, after the birth of my first son two and a half years ago, I suffered a very serious mental breakdown. The worst time of my life. I got diagnosed with anxiety disorder and OCD. Underwent therapy and started taking an SNRI medication. I completely quit marijuana after being a frequent smoker because it exacerbated my anxiety, and I haven't smoked it since. I'm fully in remission though, and this all feels like a distant memory now. I discussed my HHC use with my psychiatrist and she didn't seem too concerned. She's familiar with it, and she only told me to stop vaping when I start to feel the need to increase doses. I do sometimes feel that I want more, but I keep myself disciplined, and I take a break instead. Should I quit? Or should I just stop overthinking, enjoy life and deal with this, only when it starts to get in my way? Is HHC dangerous for somebody like me? Signed, The Weed Might Be Synthetic but the Benefits Aren't Just Cosmetic. I'm More Kinetic, Poetic, and Empathetic. But Should I Be This Unapologetic.

[01:05:02] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, that was a long one. Alright, yes, this is a super interesting question. I've been reading here and there about these synthetic weed products, and I'm no expert by any means, but it seems like a mixed bag, so to speak. I know Spice or K2 can be quite dangerous, but then I read that these other ones, like this HHC product, which I hadn't even heard about till now, they're not so bad. Maybe they're harmless. Maybe it's just like organic THC. But even if HHC is totally safe, using it is clearly complicated for you, given your history. And I admire your discipline and self-awareness and keeping an eye on it. Talking about it with your psychiatrist, making sure you're not trading one addiction for another. That's great news. We wanted to share your story with an expert, so we reached out to Dr. Rubin Khoddam, a clinical psychologist specializing in addiction and trauma. And Dr. Khoddam said that many people come to therapy and ask about their substance use because it started causing problems in their life, with their relationships, with their work, their health. In fact, that's part of how mental health professionals diagnoses substance use disorder. They look at the degree of impairment in various domains of a patient's life. But your situation is a bit different. Because it's not so much that the HHC is causing problems in your life, but that it's causing problems within yourself. So, Dr. Khoddam explained to us that, we can think about substance use problems as a form of self-medication. We use the substance as an external thing to try and make something internal feel better. That internal thing can be stress, anxiety, insomnia, whatever it is. Now, it's not inherently bad to want to fix those things. We all want to get rid of ailments to some extent, and we do it in different ways. Some people use HHC, some drink, some use harder drugs. Some people exercise, go for walks, use retail therapy, turn to sex, or any number of things to make themselves feel better. Whatever the medication is, it's the same process. But all things can be dangerous when used in excess. Even healthy things like exercise. So, Dr. Khoddam first thought was to step out of this binary of either I quit or I stop overthinking. It's funny, there's an interesting parallel here with Nancy's advice from question two, breaking out of that — this or that mindset.

[01:07:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:08] Jordan Harbinger: The reality in his view, probably lives somewhere in the middle. Where you have this thing that's been incredibly helpful for you and at the same time, you know that you have a tendency to want to overuse things that feel good. So that's something worth staying aware of in Dr. Khoddam's view. Aware though, not hypervigilant. And definitely not naive about. So the question becomes, how do you regulate this and use it in a healthy way? Well, you're on the right track by talking to people close to you. Your doctor, your psychiatrist was referring to tolerance. When you're getting less effect from the dose you're currently at, or when you notice yourself wanting to increase the dose, that means you're developing some physical tolerance to the substance. Dr. Khoddam said it's a good sign that she clocked that with you. He would also encourage you to think about other so-called yellow light warning signs that signal, "Hmm, maybe I need to scale back." These signs could be, I spend too much time thinking about it or wanting to use it. Another sign could be that you start disengaging from things around you. Spending less time doing things you use to enjoy. Hobbies, rituals, commitments. It's worth figuring out what those signs are so you can stay on top of them.

[01:08:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I think that's all wise advice. The other thing we need to talk about is this huge piece of his backstory. And Dr. Khoddam's final thought there was, It might be worth going back to therapy if you stopped, since the breakdown following the birth of your son. Having somebody you meet with weekly or biweekly to help support you, keep you accountable to yourself, work through the anxieties and the OCD that seem to be underlying all of this, that would be extremely helpful. And doing some of that may naturally keep the HHC use at bay, or who knows, maybe even help you cut it out altogether. At the very least, I do think it'll help you understand the role that this particular substance is playing in your life right now. The thing that stands out the most from your letter though, is that using HHC, does not correspond to the image of the serious and composed man you always wanted to become. So you say you feel guilty, you feel stupid, you say you feel weak. I think that's very important data to look at. What I would be curious about, is whether this HHC use really does conflict with the kind of person you want to be. And also, what does it mean to be a serious person? To be composed? Is that compatible with the responsible use of a potentially helpful substance? If it is in fact, helpful? Are these things really at odds or do your self definitions need to open up a little bit? In other words, the way you see yourself. But most importantly, I would dig into this feeling of guilt, and the feeling of weakness and stupidity, as you put it. I hear a lot of self-reproach in that, and I also hear the shame that you're describing. Maybe some of that is misplaced, maybe some of it is totally unnecessary. But It's also possible, that these feelings are a signal, that you are developing a dependency. And on some level, you know that that might be a problem. But also, these feelings could point to other ideas or other feelings you have. Especially about how you care for yourself, especially after you went through that difficult chapter. And now that you have a child, and maybe you haven't really explored all of that fully. So wherever you land on the HHC, specifically, I do think all of that is very, very important to explore.

[01:10:13] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed, Gabe. What are these conflicts trying to tell him? That's what he needs to figure out. Also, on a more scientific level, and obviously we're not doctors here. This is not definitive medical advice or medical advice in any way. But we did some very quick reading up on HHC, and it seems that there's little peer reviewed research investigating the safety of HHC. From anecdotal evidence, HHC seems to have a similar safety profile as the widely used THC, which is encouraging. But the biggest risk, is using low quality untested HHC products, which could contain toxins, poisonous stuff, essentially, an unreliable HHC levels. And the reality is, HHC hasn't received the same attention as THC and CBD. And that makes it very difficult to know what to expect or what the long-term effects even are. So the consensus, is that it's always best to talk with your doctor before starting any new cannabinoid routine, which you've done. Again, that's great. All in all though, Dr. Khoddam's general insight, is to bring those healthy self-medication pillars that support you, and maintain the structure of your life. Allow those pillars to keep you up and see where your HHC use falls after that. To quote him here, "It might surprise yourself." And good luck.

[01:11:20] Big thanks to Dr. Khoddam for his wisdom here. You can learn more about Dr. Khoddam and his practice at copepsychology.com.

[01:11:28] Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week, and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Anna Lembke and Adam Grant, if you haven't done so yet.

[01:11:36] The best things that have happened to me in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. It is free. I don't need your credit card number. It's not gross. It's not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. These drills are designed to take just a few minutes a day. This is the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. Again, for free, over at sixminutenetworking.com.

[01:12:05] Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for our show, if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes. If there was an episode you really like or an episode you really didn't like. You want to share some thoughts. Learn more from other people in our show, fam, check it out. Some really cool conversations happening over there. You can find that at reddit.com/r/jordanharbinger. It's not an official thing. I don't moderate it. We'll link to that in the show notes. If you're a Redditor, you know how to find it.

[01:12:28] Show notes and transcripts on the website. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram @gabrielmizrahi or on Twitter, @GabeMizrahi.

[01:12:45] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Nancy Yen and Dr. Khoddam's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

[01:13:28] You are about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Rory Stewart. He walked across Afghanistan, post 9/11 in the winter, which is incredible. But even more interesting is, his philosophy on charity. He's president of GiveDirectly, which gives cash with no strings attached.

[01:13:43] Rory Stewart: I walked across Afghanistan just after 9/11 and it was an amazing time to walk across the country. It was the middle of the winter. I was walking with a giant dog. And the Taliban government had just fallen, but the new government hadn't emerged. And it changed my life. Really, what kept me alive and safe, were the villages. I remember feeling for the first time, so lucky to be with them. I was so tired. I'd been walking then for nearly 28 days, without a break, living on bread. And I felt a kind of wonderful sense of brotherhood. It was a very humbling experience. I think the biggest lesson I took from walk, is about global poverty. I was staying with some of the very, very poorest people in the world. And I was seeing a lot of really bad aid programs, really kind of crappy development programs. And a lot of these villages I went to, had such a deep level of cynicism from the local villages about, what on earth these foreigners thought they were doing. Spending all this money and delivering basically, no benefit to these villages. Basically, their phones or their bank accounts, which allows us now to deliver money directly to people's phones without going through governments or middle people. Turns out, if you give people cash, it's better than almost any other program for nutrition, for education enrollment, for health, for shelter. The truth is that, we are not yet in a world, in which it's realistic to expect people from global North to pay every month to support the income of people in global South.

[01:15:14] Jordan Harbinger: To learn why cash charity is best and what's wrong with foreign aid, check out episode 867 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[01:15:26] Jillian Jalali: Hi everyone. This is Jillian with Court Junkie. Court Junkie is a true crime podcast that covers court cases and criminal trials. Using audio clips and interviews with people close to the cases. Court Junkie is available on Apple Podcasts and podcastone.com.