1171: Your Birthday Surprise Was Battery and Lies | Feedback Friday

1171: Your Birthday Surprise Was Battery and Lies | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my broski in the know-ski — that one's pretty bad — Gabriel Mizrahi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I also like how you said my broski. Ledowski. You doing okay over there?

Jordan Harbinger: I got sick, surprisingly small plague. Mm-hmm. I flew back from New York City and I realized that nobody covers their mouth anymore when they cough.

And I mean full grown ass adults, especially men are just like, and I'm like, do you mind? Like there's other people that exist on the planet around you, or they'll sneeze and I'm just thinking like what happened? Because in the nineties my mom would've slapped me upside the head and everyone I know covered their mouth.

My three-year-old covers her mouth when she coughs and sneezes and these grown ass men. You know what it was though? I noticed this, I hate to say this and it's probably unfair. The flight to New York, a lot more people wear masks, cover their mouth, whatever, if they're sick. Flight back to San Francisco, [00:01:00] nobody covering their mouth.

And here's my, here's my theory.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Explain, yeah, what's the takeaway here?

Jordan Harbinger: A lot of the people going to New York were from New York and they were in San Francisco on business. And I feel like just looking at the people around me, and I'm only gonna just leave that right there. On the way back from New York, it was a lot of tech workers in San Francisco that were from here, like lived here.

And it was just a different type of person, like going there. There was just a wide variety of people that looked like they were going for business reasons and like younger folks. And they, they were fine coming back. It was like exclusively middle-aged Schlubs who dressed like they had a name tag on a lanyard somewhere and they never covered their mouth and they coughed and sneezed and it was just disgusting.

It was like being in a plane full of adult children. It was so weird. And they were all over and the woman next to me was like, are you kidding me? I'm like, yeah, this guy can feel the sneeze come through between the seats. It's just so disgusting. And he was like 60. How did you grow up? Not having even just basic manners.

It, I [00:02:00] don't know.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And right before you were gonna Paris.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So I'm, my sinuses are clogged. I get sick from my kids here and there. Sure. They can't help it. They get all kinds of new stuff. They bring it home. I. This was definitely just like, just some schmo who, you know, hasn't had a date in his entire life and puts his feet on the seat on an an airplane.

He put his feet, you know, Baha between the seats, there's an armrest. He put his feet there. I turned around and I was just like, no sir, no, no, no. That is not okay. Like, I'm not gonna like let that go or call the flight attendant. I'm just gonna turn around and be like, excuse me. No, my elbow's touching your feet.

Wow. Bold move. Well, part of it is you look back and you see who it is, and if it's like some giant person, you're like, Hey man, would you mind? But if it's like some schmo, you're like, dude. Are you kidding? I'm not, I'm not here to handle this diplomatically. You know, like, you don't look like you're gonna have an explosive reaction.

I might have to say some of my own shit

Gabriel Mizrahi: outta it. Yeah. I don't have to be on a TikTok video right now. Yes,

Jordan Harbinger: exactly. Like, look, it depends. If I don't wanna scare anyone, I don't wanna scare like a teenage girl who puts her feet there. She's just, you know, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not [00:03:00] jerk. But if you're an adult male, like yes, you are getting the stink eye, and I'm telling you that you can't do that.

I'm telling you this in a way that you will feel ashamed because you should know better. And your mother should have told you this literally 50 years ago.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Jordan Harbinger laying down a lot at 30,000 feet.

Jordan Harbinger: I, it's just, but who, who are these people seriously? Like, and you're like the people who cut their toenails on the plane.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, stop it.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. You're

Gabriel Mizrahi: disgusting. I've never seen someone clip their toenails on a flight.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Because you know that there's like that distinctive sound that it's the only thing that it can be is somebody cutting toenails.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Have you actually seen someone do that?

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. On an airplane. Not this particular flight, but yeah.

I heard someone cutting their nails In the cabin. In the cabin. Yes. No, I've seen it more than once. Once was a woman and she was fine 'cause it was like she was catching them and like putting them in a little Kleenex and I was like, all right, whatever.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, that's still unacceptable.

Jordan Harbinger: It was, it was like not the place that I would do it, but it was like fine.

It was her fingernails. She probably, who knows, maybe she broke a nail and she had to do that. [00:04:00] I, I don't know. Okay, fine. That's different. But that's one little, I've seen men like cutting their disgusting need a sandblaster toenails.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Why would you,

Jordan Harbinger: on the tray table, which by the way, that's why you don't use the tray table.

You disinfect that. This

Gabriel Mizrahi: is more horrifying than the coughing.

Jordan Harbinger: I agree. Yeah. 'cause you're, now you're talking about like fungal infections that are just gonna be on your. Panini. Dude, I'm bounceback.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm shocked right now.

Jordan Harbinger: Later on if you don't put something down on the table.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. You don't want to eat the hummus tray off of that thing after somebody tries to clip their toenails.

But why are people giving themselves a pedicure?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. No, it's gross on Alaska

Gabriel Mizrahi: Airlines

Jordan Harbinger: flight. No. Yeah. To be fair, it wasn't Alaska. This is Virgin Atlantic where I saw that and I remember that. 'cause I remember the purple lighting, you know?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: And you're just like,

Gabriel Mizrahi: oh, it's the perfect shade for watching somebody.

Yeah. For watching with talents. Somebody put

Jordan Harbinger: their toenails. You know, the, the other gross, I think I've said this on the show before, I can't remember the other grossest thing that I've seen on the plane. This perfectly nice woman again, to and from San Francisco. She was talking with me and Jen, [00:05:00] and she gets one of those like little wrap sandwiches.

I don't know if she brought it from the airport. I can't remember. Or if she bought it from the plane, but it's like one of those wraps that's in a tortilla and it's got like salad and chicken in or whatever. She pulls the tray table down and just puts the bear wrap. No plate, no plastic, no nothing, just on the tray table.

And I'm like, do you think that that is disinfected after each flight? Do you think that that's clean at all? I couldn't stop looking like every time she'd pick it up and put her down, just raw dog in, just rock dog in the plastic, put the panini in her mouth, take a bite, put it back down, and I just, I couldn't even focus on what she was saying.

I have no idea. All I remember is her just bite back down on the trade table, back up and I'm just thinking like there was a man cutting his toenails on a flight before this and just piling up his fungus nails in the middle of that tray table.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's like one step away from drinking the top water in every third world country you visit just to like diversify your microbiome so you're immune from various illnesses.

Jordan Harbinger: I honestly think that eating off of a tray [00:06:00] table that's. Worse than eating off of like a fast food table at a restaurant. 'cause at least they're disinfecting the theoretically disinfecting those, you know, people there before were eating. I don't even know. It's like right there with like, I'm just gonna raw dog, get at McDonald's, put my burger right on the table.

Yeah. It's just so gross. Who are these people? How do you not think of this stuff? Or am I a germaphobe? That's what I wanna know. Are we the weirdos or are we correct here?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, we're definitely weirdos, but, uh, I don't know. I don't know what's acceptable anymore. What were we even talking about?

Jordan Harbinger: I think we were saying that on the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Like not eating off of a tray table.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, that is wisdom that I didn't think I would have to impart on anyone. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, organized crime figures, rocket scientists, CEOs, arms dealers, and drug [00:07:00] traffickers.

This week we had Gareth Gore, author of Opus, the Cult of Dark Money, human Trafficking, and Right Wing Conspiracy Inside the Catholic Church. Gareth wrote this expose about the members of Opus Day, which if you don't know what that is, it's this ultra conservative Catholic sect. It's very secretive. How they push their radical agenda within the church and around the globe using billions of dollars siphon from one of the world's largest banks.

Fascinating conversation. This cult was also in the Da Vinci Code. Whenever I tell people about this episode, they're like, Hey man, have you heard the Da Vinci Code? You read that book. It's that cult. It's a glimpse into a very dark and complicated underworld, and I think that you guys will really dig it.

On Fridays though, we take listener letters, offer advice, play ridiculous soundbites that 98% of you can't get enough of, and 2% of you absolutely cannot stand and still email us about. And generally, we saute ourselves in the hot springs of your scalding life drama until our doozy fingers are nice and pruny.

As always, we've got some fun ones and some doozies, and I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Gabriel Mizrahi: So just a heads up, this one [00:08:00] involves some kind of intense sexual stuff. So if you're driving your kids to school or something, just keep that in mind. Maybe jump to question two.

Dear Jordan and Gabe, just over a week ago, on the afternoon of my 39th birthday, I was heading home for what was supposed to be a cozy evening with my spouse, our toddler, and my favorite takeout. I remember smiling and thinking to myself, crap, this is probably the happiest birthday I can remember having for a while.

Hang,

Jordan Harbinger: hang on a second. Since this is feedback Friday. Mm-hmm. I feel like I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that this was not, in fact, the happiest birthday that she had in a while. That is a wise assumption.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Then I got a frantic call from my husband. He had just received word from a detective in a local special victim's unit stating that he had been accused of sexual assault and that he was to report to her at a specified time and date to be placed under arrest and charged.

I've known him for over eight years, and he sounded scared and devastated in a way I'd never heard before. He frantically professed that he hadn't done anything wrong, that he had no idea [00:09:00] where this accusation was coming from. Later in the evening, my husband's amnesia subsided and he started recalling an incident where he and a friend double-teamed a female colleague almost 20 years ago, but he said the encounter was consensual.

Jordan Harbinger: I love that you wrote double team. So that means they had a threesome for those in our chfa who are pure of heart, pure.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I was and still am. Confused as to how my husband could go from having no idea who was accusing him of sexual assault or why to recalling a consensual sexual encounter from many years ago, a few hours later, doesn't quite add up for me.

Naturally, the shock is overwhelming. I still can't process this. The only facts I've gotten so far from my husband's lawyer are that this allegation is stemming from a he said, she said situation with a colleague when he was 19, long before he and I ever got together. The following day, my husband came home from work and admitted to sexual misconduct with his accuser, but not rape.

He admitted to putting his penis on the [00:10:00] complainant's face in response to her throwing up in his bed after a night of parting.

Jordan Harbinger: Geez. Ugh. Okay. Sounds very frat bro. At best and definitely not. Okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But he maintains that the three-way, which was with this same woman and that male colleague of theirs was consensual.

When I pressed my husband to tell me if there were any other skeletons in his closet, he admitted that he got word that he has an estranged child from a one night stand during a vacation before he and I got together. But he doesn't know for sure. Hmm hmm. I couldn't bring myself to ask for more information in that moment as I was nauseous with anxiety and terror.

Jordan Harbinger: Understandable. But I have so many questions.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Like if somebody comes to you and says that you had a child from a one night stand a long time ago, he's, he doesn't know for sure, but like, did he not want to know?

Jordan Harbinger: And also do you not go, oh my gosh, wife. I just got the craziest call. Let's talk about this.

You don't go, yeah, I don't wanna tell anybody [00:11:00] about this ever. No one's gonna find out. How could that possibly happen?

Gabriel Mizrahi: So many, so many questions. As the afternoon went on, I tried my best to stay busy by cleaning the house until it was time to go and pick up our child who's on the autism spectrum from daycare.

Needless to say, the home was tense. Once our child was home, my husband and I tried our best to act normally and stay composed. The evening went okay, all things considered, and then it was finally time for the bath and bed routine. My child can get extremely agitated, and when he's tired, the tantrums are exponentially worse.

That night, he was literally impossible. In the past when he's like this and it feels necessary, both my husband and I have spanked our child without excessive force, of course, to get him to regulate, refocus himself and or help him snap out of a fixation or tantrum. Okay? Hmm. After we finished bathing our toddler, my husband and I were in his room putting on his jammies.

His irate behavior escalated and I [00:12:00] spanked him as both of us would normally do in any scenario like this one. Before I could even process that, I'd spanked my child, I found myself on the floor against the corner of a wall on the opposite side of the room. My husband responded to me, spanking our child by aggressively throwing me across our child's bedroom.

I was terrified. It caused all sorts of painful bruises that are still visible and sore as I type this 10 days later. Oh my gosh, that is, that is intense. I called the police and had my husband arrested and charged for assaulting me. Wow.

Jordan Harbinger: What a day. So much has happened. I'm not even trying to make light of it.

There's just so much going on here. Geez.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Where we live. A person accused of domestic violence cannot contact the complainant in any way or come near the family home until the court proceedings are concluded, or a bail variation is requested. The no contact order remains in place so that I can process and heal from everything that's happened.

Our child now has to live without his dad until I request otherwise, but I do allow [00:13:00] visits anytime it's requested. This is the only time my husband has ever physically assaulted me and he's an adequate parent. My kid hasn't asked for him once in 10 days, but appeared happy to see him after their visit a few days ago.

My husband has, however, been financially and emotionally abusive for the past five years. If he had done his best to be a good husband, I would be knocking on any and every door to help clear his good name. But I do not feel this man has any honor to defend at this point. Now, my husband might be going to prison and or facing a hefty financial penalty and sex offender status.

We have to spend money we don't have on legal costs related to defending this jerks lies and poor impulse control. I also feel pressured to help him beat his domestic assault charge. I imagine it's not a great look if during his court proceedings it becomes known that he's been convicted of domestic assault against his wife.

Jordan Harbinger: So this is interesting. This can go either way. Quick aside, under US law and many state laws, a prosecutor [00:14:00] cannot introduce prior bad acts or charges simply to show that a defendant is a bad person or has a criminal disposition or whatever. Of course, this is in the interest of having a fair trial, right?

If somebody has a, a bunch of stuff they did 10 years ago, what you don't want is the prosecutor saying, look at all this bad stuff they did 10 years ago. 'cause it has nothing to do with whether they did the thing they're doing now. Generally speaking, you cannot bring up charges from an unrelated case in a trial.

But prior conduct can be mentioned if it's directly relevant to the case, for example, to show motive, intent, modus operandi and stuff like that. But it's up to the judge. They get to decide whether to allow limited evidence of a prior act. Hard to say if that would happen in your husband's case. Domestic violence and sexual assault somewhat related.

So it's not impossible, but who knows, and I don't wanna go into the weeds on this, but this gets tricky and is there's a lot of discretion involved here.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It also would not be beneficial for our child, for my husband to face a hefty, fine, or prison time. I would be willing to [00:15:00] do what I can to help once he completes a court accredited 12 week support program, and if he continues to uphold his financial responsibilities while we're separated, I'm now scrambling to find clarity, validation and guidance, anything to help with the crippling pain and anxiety.

I feel right now I've also reached out to a trusted therapist for support. Am I crazy for being extremely upset about the sexual assault? Am I crazy for being upset about finding out about all of this? Only after marrying the bastard, am I crazy for not wanting to help him beat the domestic assault charge at this moment?

Is it selfish and or crazy that I'm not putting the best interest of my child over my own interests? Am I crazy for being open to giving this marriage another shot? If my husband fulfills his financial obligations, continues to be a good father and completes that program, do you feel there's any hope for our marriage to get to a good place after all this?

Or should I just dump him and keep the no contact thing going for as long as I can signed trying to make it last given this [00:16:00] unsettling past?

Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. Okay. Well this story is very tragic. There's so much going on here. I. First of all, I can only imagine how disturbing all of this must be. How destabilizing to learn that your husband might have raped someone in his past, that he likely maybe has a child with another person that he hid from you.

We don't know all the details or circumstances here, but regardless, this is very painful stuff. It's funny slash interesting. Gabe, I had a recurring nightmare a few years back that I had a child that I didn't know about and I, I woke up and my first instinct was to say, Jen, I'm having this crazy recurring nightmare that I had a kid from when I lived in Panama.

I just never knew about it. And she's like, well. If you didn't know about it, you know, that's crazy. It's unlikely. And I was like, would you be super mad? She's like, no, it's not your fault. So my first instinct was better tell my wife about this thing that, and this is a dream. And if I actually got the call, I'd be like, honey, you have to come home right now.

I gotta talk to you. The last thing I would do is be like. Well, I can't see a scenario in which my wife would ever fight out about [00:17:00] this, so I'm just not gonna say anything. Come on man.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Even if it turns out that he's not the father. Yeah. Um, like he's hiding something potentially huge from her and it fits with a number of other facts that he is obscuring so dodgy.

You are

Jordan Harbinger: not the guy, but that's the, I had to, but then to get into this altercation at home, to be thrown against a wall. Have the police come. I mean Oh, so intense man. So intense. You didn't deserve that. I'm very sorry it all happened. Gabe, before we dive into all of her questions, I feel the need to talk about her son.

It's really

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. The spanking you mean, right? Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: Look, I don't know firsthand what it's like to have to manage a child with special needs. I don't have a clue and I feel a little bad for jumping into this part first 'cause she's been through a lot. And I don't mean to lecture her about her parenting on top of all this, but I.

We've done research on this before and spanking an autistic child, any child actually, that that's just, it's not the way to do it. She said they only do it when it feels [00:18:00] necessary, but like, how do you define necessary when he's resisting you and you decide it's necessary? And what impact is that having on him?

Gabriel Mizrahi: God knows. I mean, I'm no expert either, but autistic children often have heightened sensory sensitivity, right? So being spanked, I don't know, maybe it seems to shock him into refocusing, but I imagine that could also be very distressing to a child like this. Not to mention, you know, painful and confusing coming from your parents.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I'm just very concerned that this spanking is leaving him with some kind of trauma. And I know you say it's not excessive. I totally believe you, but what you perceive as mild that might be overwhelming and dysregulating and confusing for a child who's on the spectrum Now, we know that there's no evidence of any benefit from spanking kids.

We've talked about this on the show before. We've consulted subject matter experts. We've, we've done the homework, but we also couldn't find any credible evidence that spanking helps autistic children snap out of meltdowns, fixations and dysregulation.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Those behaviors are generally not willful defiance.

They're often [00:19:00] signs of overload and unmet needs. The studies that we've read unfortunately show that spanking is associated with. More aggression, more anxiety, you know, oppositional behavior, poor emotional regulation,

Jordan Harbinger: which children with autism might already struggle with.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I mean, it can reinforce fear, it can increase the shutdowns and outbursts, but I think most importantly, it can damage the trust and the caregiver relationship, which I'm sure is the one thing you wanna preserve the most.

Jordan Harbinger: Right? So I think we'd be remiss if we didn't help you see that. And my advice there is stop the spanking immediately. Start reading up on non-punitive structured behavioral strategies like applied behavioral analysis, pivotal response therapy, sensory breaks. The consensus seems to be that you wanna understand the function of the behavior and meet the child where they are not punish the expression of distress or dysregulation.

Okay? All that said, are you crazy for being extremely upset about the sexual assault? Uh, no. You're not crazy to be upset about this. It's an upsetting thing to learn no matter what the [00:20:00] circumstances were, no matter what the outcome is. Now whether that means your husband truly assaulted this woman, I'm talking about the evening of the group thing, not the drunk in bed thing, which definitely sound again, not okay, but whether he and his friend actually did rape her.

That's a separate question. It doesn't sound good. And given the other things your husband is hidden from you, let's just say this is a hard person to root for right now. But to be fair, we don't have all the facts. It's been 20 years since the incident. He was 19 then. He's like almost 40 now. Come on, even he might not remember it perfectly, both because it was a long time ago and because it sounds like there was quite a bit of alcohol involved in that relationship generally.

We know nothing about this woman, their relationship, what went down, any of that. So for our purposes, it might be helpful to try to separate whether your husband is guilty of this crime from your feelings about this turn of events. I can imagine it would bring up a lot for you even if your husband didn't assault this woman.

And my stance is yes, it's fair to be freaking out about it. I mean, the legal headache [00:21:00] alone. Now, are you crazy for being upset about finding out about all of this only after marrying him? Well again, there are some nuances here. If your husband did rape this woman, then I understand why it's so upsetting to learn about later.

If he didn't do this crime, if he's being falsely accused or there's some ambiguity here, then it gets a little murkier for me. I guess my question for you is, did you guys agree to talk about your full sexual histories before you settled down? Did he lie? Did you tell him everything about your past? You know, I'm not sure that there's a tacit obligation to tell a partner about everyone you slept with before you met, but again, I understand why this is extra disturbing given the allegation.

Now, are you crazy for not wanting to help him beat the domestic assault charge? Honestly, I'm confused here. It sounds like you are too. On one hand, you're saying this man doesn't have any honor to defend at this point, and I'm keeping the no contact order, and you are the one who called the police on him.

On the other hand, you're saying that you're gonna spend money on a [00:22:00] lawyer and you don't want the domestic violence charge to play a role in his sexual assault case. And complicating matters further is that for all your husband's flaws, he had never physically assaulted you. This was the first time, and it was on the day he learned about the charge.

Your son was acting out. Tensions were running high to put it mildly. And now to be crystal clear, 'cause people are getting angry right now, I am not excusing what he did. It is awful. It is domestic violence. But what you're saying is that this was unusual behavior for him, although I hear you, that he financially and emotionally abused you for years.

What that actually means, how severe it was. I'm not clear on that, but I'll of course take your word for it. So I guess my feeling here is you're not crazy for not wanting to help him beat a domestic violence charge. He's not giving you a ton of reasons to rally behind him. But I do think that your conflict and your confusion are making it hard to act totally consistently here.

And I can't say I entirely blame you for that. This is a mess. But I think once you land on a clear stance on your husband, what he deserves, what your [00:23:00] relationship should be, you'll know whether to help him with this particular problem. As for your son, are you selfish and or crazy for not putting his best interests above your own?

Again, this is very confusing to me. You said that your husband is an adequate parent, high praise, but then he's spanking your son too, which you already know how I feel about that. You also said that your son didn't ask about him once over these 10 days, but he did seem happy to see his dad at their visit.

Now your son's on the spectrum, so maybe it's hard to know what to make of these data points and your son is still a toddler, so he can't say, I want daddy around, or I don't like when daddy's here. I just want it to be you and me. I don't know. But in general, if your husband is a safe parent to him and a safe co-parent to you, then it would be ideal for your son to have both his parents in the picture.

But I guess my question for you is what are your son's best interests? Really? Is your husband a positive presence for him right now? Does your husband's past, however that shakes out, change that? And how does the tension and conflict in the home affect your son? Are you able to parent him on your [00:24:00] own?

You seem to be implying that your son would be better off with his dad in the picture, but you can't tolerate that right now, which I understand. But I, I don't actually know if that's the case, so it's hard to know for sure if you're really being selfish or crazy to use your words.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Jordan, I think we have to pause for a moment and just acknowledge that almost all of her questions are about whether she's crazy for feeling a certain way or making a certain decision.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, she's very concerned about that, but I don't know what she means exactly.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. I mean, I know it's an expression. Am I crazy for, you know, whatever, fill in the blank. But I also wonder if she's kind of really asking us, am I crazy? Like, am I nuts right now? And the answer is, I don't know. Maybe a little bit in the sense that you are very overwhelmed and turned around right now, and you might not feel like you have the best grip on things, which given the circumstances is completely understandable.

Again, these are not small discoveries. These are potentially life-changing revelations one after the other. So I don't blame you for being a little bit overwhelmed, but when you say, am I crazy? I also wonder if you're also asking, is it okay [00:25:00] for me to feel this way? Is it okay for me to take this position?

Like you said earlier, you're looking for clarity, guidance, and validation. It sounds to me like you want some permission to just have an authentic reaction to this objectively insane stuff that you're going through. Just a basic right to take a strong stance of your own.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. She's talking about her basic right, to have her own experience here.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. That version of, am I Crazy? The one that means, am I allowed to, like, am I allowed to be angry? Am I allowed to be devastated? Am I allowed to tell my husband that I need some space that is a quality that seems to be separate from everything that's going on with your husband, and I'm sure it predates him.

So let's keep going, Jordan. We can keep answering her questions, but underneath all these questions, is this more fundamental one? And the answer is yes, of course. You're allowed to have these feelings. And consider these options, but that is a muscle you're gonna have to develop on your own through this experience.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. We can't give her that confidence ourselves. But I think what you're also bringing up is, does struggling to fully own these feelings and [00:26:00] decisions, does that also play a role in the dynamic with her husband? Does it play a role in how she responds to her son?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Does it play a role in why a lot of her actions and instincts seem to kind of be at odds with each other?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I'm, look, I think the answer is yes, because if she doesn't even know, if she's allowed to say, be furious at her husband or put herself first, or risk disappointing her son, then how is she supposed to make the right call? It begins with just feeling the feelings, knowing hers are as valid as as his.

So the $64,000 question, are you crazy for being open to giving this marriage another shot? I wouldn't say crazy, but given everything that's gone down, I, I can't say I fully endorse it. You need to really sit with this question for a while. I'm actually a little surprised that you feel the need to make it now.

I mean, it's only been 10 days since, not one, but two bombs have been dropped in the middle of your life, you guys got in this altercation, it's 10 days. The bruises are literally still visible. You just found out that he might have raped someone, that he might have another child out there that he didn't tell you about after years of [00:27:00] dysfunction and mistreatment.

So, I'm sorry to repeat myself, but again, I'm confused. Why are we talking about getting back together?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, this might be another manifestation of the, can I have my own experience thing, but I'm also thinking about that thing she said before, you know, she said, I'm scrambling to find clarity, validation and guidance.

Anything to help with the crippling pain and anxiety I feel right now.

Jordan Harbinger: Mm, that's right. So she's in a lot of distress and she just kind of wants it to end, which I can relate to that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. What could be more normal, but jumping straight to, well, maybe we can work it out and give it another shot. I suspect that that is one way to put an end to that pain and anxiety, which are symptoms, not just of the very upsetting things she's learned about her husband, but of the uncertainty that they bring up.

Right. So I get the sense that it's very difficult for her to tolerate those feelings. And she's looking for a way out of them. And the most obvious one might be to give her marriage another shot,

Jordan Harbinger: right? When the best thing she can do right now is what we talk about quite a bit, which is sit with these distressing feelings and learn to live with them just a little [00:28:00] more.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's it. That's like 80% of her job right now.

Jordan Harbinger: This is the kind of pain that drives people to discover meditation, that forces them to learn what it means to surrender because it's just so freaking insane and you can't control it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And I think that capacity goes hand in hand with being secure and having your own experience because like.

How can you have your own experience if you can't even bear the feelings associated with it, you know?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Also, you need to see how your husband navigates all this, how he treats you, how he treats his son, how the investigation goes, whether he throws himself into the support group, whether he goes to therapy.

You just need a lot more data before you can make the right call about your marriage. But even if he navigates all this perfectly, whatever that looks like, you guys would still need to do a ton of work together separately to heal these wounds, to rewrite these patterns, to find your way back to each other, to consider a very different model for your relationship.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it's gonna be hard, and this is just a, a lot to come back from an alleged assault, a possible secret love child potential prison [00:29:00] time, a questionable parenting style, other forms of abuse. What did she say? Emotional and financial abuse. I mean, I don't know, man. I.

Yes, he could use these experiences to evolve dramatically. It's extremely rare, but it does happen. But you'd still have to be able to forgive him. You'd still have to be able to live with these facts, the implications, and that's just, it's asking a lot. So, no, I don't have high hopes for your marriage, but that's up to you guys, largely up to him.

I'd say, given that he's made such a mess of things, but that doesn't mean you need to dump him or that you can't ever have contact with this guy again. You're gonna have to hang in this for a little while. Make these decisions as the picture becomes clearer. You have some good reasons to stay away right now.

You also have some good reasons to get to a place where you have a functional co-parenting relationship with strong boundaries, but that is a process, not a destination. So throw yourself into this therapy that you're doing. Take good care of your son. He's at the top of the list of priorities right now, of course, which means, please stop spanking him.

That's just not helping anybody. Watch how your husband [00:30:00] handles all this. Take his words and actions at face value. Stay grounded in your experience of all this, and trust that if you move through this in the right way, you'll know what decision to make and or the decision will be made for you based on how the all this drama shakes out.

As strange as it sounds, there might not ultimately be a ton for you to do right now, other than taking care of your side of the street, sending you a hug, and wishing you all the best. Alright, now it's time for a consensual menage trois of our own, you, me, and some spanking good deals on the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. There's definitely a bit of stigma around men's mental health. We're taught to tough it out. You gotta bottle it up, you gotta power through. But here's the truth. Real strength is not pretending that everything is fine. It's being willing to face what you're carrying and deal with it head on.

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Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Delete Me. Delete Me. Makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable as somebody with a pretty active online presence.

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Now back to feedback Friday. [00:33:00] Okay, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello to my favorite hippie grandpa Gabe, and my tolerable crazy uncle Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: Tolerable high praise.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Is that a callback to the uncle at Thanksgiving? You put up with who's railing about some weird opinion? Is that what that is?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Or like he was an adequate parent.

Okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: My good friend Mike is dealing with a former roommate, Sam, who's really out to get him. He moved out because this guy was generally being kind of crazy. I was friends with both of them, so I've heard a lot from both sides. Sam has accused Mike of lying to him on multiple occasions, recording a conversation without his consent, which is legal in Texas, where we live, making fun of his height.

In an argument they had recording him watching porn, which he has no proof of, and intending to blackmail him, which I'm not sure why Mike would do that, because Sam is totally broke, not apologizing for anything, and finally moving some valuable books he had and slightly damaging them when they were moving out.

[00:34:00] Mike is one of my best friends, and I know all of his former roommates. These things are just not in character for Mike. He's a super considerate guy, maybe the most considerate. I know. He's even apologized to me for little things that I wasn't even offended about. He had very valid explanations for all of these accusations.

For example, he recorded a few of their conversations when things got bad because he wanted to have evidence that he wasn't the crazy one. Meanwhile, Sam has depression, which he talks about constantly. He's talked about suicidal ideation at length, though never in terms of having a plan. He was seeing a counselor for a while, but he didn't want to open up about the suicidal ideation, so he stops going.

He often reaches out with what seemed like attention seeking texts like, I'm done with church. I'm just gonna move away. I'm gonna disappear, et cetera. I've told him over and over again that he needs therapy, but he just keeps insisting that he's too broke and gets mad at me. I don't have his new address, or I would've called for a wellness check.

Sam [00:35:00] is now seeking to have Mike put under church discipline. This is a big deal as our church is very close, and to remove someone from membership due to unrepentant sin would be us saying that we're not confident that they're a believer. They would likely leave the church altogether, which would mean losing a really close church family.

I referred Sam to one of my pastors to start the official process. Even though I think his claims are bogus and it likely won't go anywhere, which I told him,

Jordan Harbinger: why would you refer him to your pastor if you don't believe the accusations? That's confusing to me.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, me too. So my first thought is maybe if the church rules against him, it'll just put an end to all this because Sam can't argue with a major authority.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Also, I don't get why he doesn't know the pastor if he's a member of that church, but whatever, it doesn't matter. I, this just doesn't make a ton of sense to me somehow.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But, uh, I mean that's my theory, but then the letter goes on. I don't think Sam will stop smearing him if the church discipline process doesn't go his way.

So that's maybe even more confusing. Yeah. I also kind of worry it might get violent. [00:36:00] He doesn't seem to be violent generally, but he owns at least one gun.

Jordan Harbinger: Of course. Yeah. That's scary. Maybe more so in terms of his own danger to himself than to someone else. But still,

Gabriel Mizrahi: should Mike file a restraining order?

Should he just ignore Sam knowing his reputation will withstand a crazy guy making baseless claims. Any dark Jordan ideas signed, keeping at bay an ex Rumi who's cray,

Jordan Harbinger: oof. Bit of a heavy one. Well, first of all, sorry you're caught in the middle between two friends here. That's not fun. Although it does sound like Mike is probably not the problem.

Still, it's hard to hear from somebody who's clearly in pain and then just won't slash can't get help, and who seems to be spiraling. It's also kinda scary. I mean, he is talking about hurting himself. He has a gun. He's getting more and more desperate. So should Mike file a restraining order, I'm not sold on it.

Look, in Texas to get a protective order, you have to show that family violence, dating, violence, stalking, sexual assault, threats of imminent harm have occurred or are likely to occur. You didn't mention any of that in your letter. The only [00:37:00] element that might warrant concern is the fact that he owns a gun and is threatening suicide.

But again. That's dangerous to him, not to Mike. If I were Mike, what I do regardless is start documenting everything. Texts, calls, emails, dms, in-person conversations, secondhand reports. If Sam escalates, if he shows up somewhere uninvited, if he threatens Mike with violence, if he sends explicit blackmail messages, anything like that, than Mike should consider a protective order, and he would've a much easier time getting it with that documentation.

Until then, the best thing he can do is stay away. Just stay neutral, move on with his life. Don't engage with Sam. Don't feed the drama. Definitely don't retaliate. Even with this whole church investigation unfolding, if Mike starts defending himself to every person Sam talks to, it just, it gives Sam oxygen, it gives the whole thing air.

What he can do and what you can help with is just quietly maintain his credibility. If I were Mike, I would just keep being the [00:38:00] guy who's chill, kind, helpful, open, doesn't fuel the drama, apologizes when needed. This just goes a long way, especially in a tight knit community like yours. I am not sure how formal or extensive this discipline process is, but it sounds like it's not gonna go very far given Sam's credibility or lack thereof.

And it sounds like they are going to actually investigate it, not just be like, well, this guy did this bad thing, so we're gonna kick you out. That doesn't sound like how this process goes, so they're gonna find nothing. And the best thing Mike can do is participate with humility and transparency and offer the discipline committee that documentation.

If he has it, I'm sure any rational person will interview him and then just get a picture of what's going on, just like you have right now. The more public and formal Sam makes this, the more likely it is that he's just gonna discredit himself and the process, honestly, I don't know if this situation calls for any dark Jordan ideas.

Mike is just not there yet. One darkish thing, even gray thing he could do is reach out to the most influential people at your church one by one. [00:39:00] I would call them on the phone and I would just say, Hey, so this is what's happening with my old roommate, Sam. I'm just really concerned about this guy. I'm not sure what to do.

Do you have any advice?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm,

Jordan Harbinger: clever. In fact, what I would probably slow play it. I'd say like, can I come over and talk to you? It's, I'll keep it short. It's very personal. And they'll be like, of course. 'cause you know, church people close community, go to their house and be like, I'm concerned about this guy.

Do you have any advice? That gives Mike even more perspectives and it wins him some important allies because look, asking someone for advice about a problem like this, they're gonna almost certainly be on your side. And then those people will also be primed to view Sam's accusations in a certain light when they hear that man.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that is clever. I like that a lot. I'm still thinking about that detail. We talked about a moment ago how you referred Sam to one of your pastors to start the disciplinary process. I know you said it probably won't go anywhere, you told him that, but I'm just still kind of scratching my head again.

Maybe you wanted him to hear from a much more influential source, like, Hey man, you need to drop this. None of this happened, or It's not as [00:40:00] bad as you think. Just move on. Which I guess I can understand why that would be useful. I also wonder if you were maybe outsourcing to the church a message that you could have given Sam yourself?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Or maybe he was trying to stay on good terms with both Mike and Sam because Sam's nuts, and this is a way of throwing Sam a bone or something. It

Gabriel Mizrahi: could be, I mean, maybe if you didn't appease him, he would've turned his sights on you, which is a bit scary to think about. Or maybe you were worried that he would hurt himself because nobody took him seriously or whatever.

But given the facts here, it really does sound like Sam is going off the rails, and Mike is largely, if not entirely in the clear, and maybe Sam needs to hear some difficult news delivered kindly from another friend. I'm worried about you. I'm not sure this really adds up. I don't think this is something you should pursue.

This might be a case where gently standing up to Sam or just quietly pulling away and staying out of this completely would have been appropriate and potentially more helpful because now you've helped an unstable person. Nurse, these grievances even longer, and you've allowed [00:41:00] him to drag your friend through this annoying and stressful process.

So I'm just not sure whom this serves.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I tend to agree. I think Sam is in trouble and needs help whether he gets that help, whether he is the kind of person who can even make use of it, TBD on that, I suppose, but that's his business. Our friend here has done more than enough. The best thing Mike can do is protect himself.

Stay away and move on. Good luck. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your stepdads got your nudes, your neighbors are eaves, eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your brother has falsely accused your mother of heinous crimes and alienated you, making you question whether to procreate at all, whatever's got you staying up at night lately.

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Gabriel Mizrahi: What's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've known my elderly neighbor, Helen for over eight years. Two years ago, her roommate passed away and we got really close because she has no living family. She's become our family, and my three small children consider her to be their grandma.

Jordan Harbinger: That is beautiful. How sweet is that?

Gabriel Mizrahi: So cute. Helen is a delight to us and knowing we only have a few more years with her, we've put off moving away. Another reason we've hesitated to move away is that Helen has told us she wants us to have her house when she passes away. While this made me uncomfortable at first, I've since realized that it would be an incredible blessing to our family, although I hope that doesn't happen soon.

Last year, Helen broke her hip, so we go over there regularly to help her with things like laundry and showering. While she was in physical rehab, she met a couple, let's call them Jack and Jill. Jack and Jill have been incredibly [00:43:00] generous with her time and money since she's been out of rehab. In fact, they've been so generous with their time that Helen confides to me often about how she can't get them to go home or stop them from frequently dropping by.

They've been so generous with their money that they've gotten a large TV and new phone for Helen, even though she doesn't know how to use them, and told me she wishes she had her old TV that she was used to.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. I think I see where this is going.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'd like to think that Jack and Jill have wonderful intentions, but sometimes it feels like they get off on helping people and have turned Helen into a pet project.

They want to declutter and fix up her house, which she doesn't. They've bought her a laptop and other gadgets that she has no use for, and strangers still, they have very obviously tried to copy and paste the relationship Helen has with my children for themselves after we had only met them in person once Jill told me that she was to be called anti Jill

Jordan Harbinger: cringe.

Why do I get the feeling that Jill's Safari history is full of Zillow listings?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. [00:44:00] It's hard to describe my gut feeling, but I've trusted it and set boundaries to keep some distance between them and my children. Helen's assets and power of attorney previously went to an ex-boyfriend who still keeps in contact and runs errands for her.

Jack is very knowledgeable with finances, so he helped Helen go to the attorney and rewrite her will.

Jordan Harbinger: Whoa.

Gabriel Mizrahi: From what I understand, Jack is now in charge of distributing her wealth when she passes away,

Jordan Harbinger: I wonder what the timeline is between him becoming in charge of distributing her assets, changing the will, and them being like, let's fix up and declutter this house that we're definitely not taking from you after you pass away.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, God, I didn't even connect those dots.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, the bathroom needs to be renovated. We'll just pay for that. No problem. Don't worry about it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Let's get out in front of this stuff before it becomes a headache. Yeah, for

Jordan Harbinger: us. Yeah. Let's, oh, we'll take three years. Remodel the whole thing. Get rid of all your stuff, and then when you croak, we'll be moved in in a week.

Come on. May. I mean, look, maybe I'm too cynical, but man, that's just a [00:45:00] Chinese military parade full of red flags so far.

Gabriel Mizrahi: For this reason, I now have some incentive to not get on Jack's bad side since I'm unsure of his power in this situation. Then recently Jack put up a camera in Helen's living room. Hold

Jordan Harbinger: up.

Yeah, that's super weird and invasive. Who does that? I have cameras in my own living room. I don't even like those.

Gabriel Mizrahi: In reviewing Helen's finances, Jack believes that her ex-boyfriend has been stealing from her and he's partially concerned for her safety and partially hoping to catch her ex-boyfriend in some kind of confession.

I told Helen I was not comfortable with my children being monitored when they visit. Helen claims to have told Jack that she didn't want the camera, and he assured her that he hadn't gotten it working yet. The next time I visited there was a new camera and Helen didn't even know about it. When she brought it up to Jack, he told her she can cover it when I come to visit, but he's worried about her ex and so for her safety she needs the camera.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Again, Jack and Jill might [00:46:00] actually be trying to protect Helen here, but this is so very sus.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

Jordan Harbinger: The fact that he's now the executive or estate and whatever, that's one giant red flag, but also like, oh, I'll just swap the cameras out 'cause I couldn't get Nest working. So I've got a. Simply safe in there that I can monitor your living room with.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dude,

Jordan Harbinger: cover it when the guests come over. No, dude, what is wrong with you?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Just don't put it there. If I don't want it, it's not your house. Yeah. I mean, dude, even in a world where you meet a sweet old lady in rehab and you bond with her and you genuinely want to help her, okay, if you found out that she already had an adoptive family living next door, wouldn't you go to those people like, Hey, we really like Helen.

We wanna make sure she's being taken care of. Are you guys involved in that? Like, what are you doing? How can we help? How do we fit in?

Jordan Harbinger: Right? A hundred percent. It sounds like these people swooped in and then changed a bunch of things and then they're sidelining our friend here, which is so weird. Like, yeah, if, if I found out somebody, even in my own elderly distant family, had a nice family next door, I'd be like, Hey, here's my number.

Call me if you need [00:47:00] anything. Thanks for keeping an eye on her. By the way, I'm gonna be getting the mail, so don't freak out if there's no mail, you know, and I'm taking her to the lawyer, blah, blah. Like this is just not that. Right. They swooped in, they decided to do their thing and yes, it's possible the ex was stealing from her.

It happens all the time. It might be happening right here, but it still kind of begs the question,

Gabriel Mizrahi: what's it to these people like? Why do you care so much?

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. If they weren't benefiting in some way. Again, I have a hard time believing they're doing all of this out of the kindness of their hearts.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on.

I feel very uncomfortable with Jack and Jill, although it does seem like Jack especially has good intentions and just wants to help. Hmm. Okay. He has done so many odds and ends for Helen and has been a considerable friend to her as well.

Jordan Harbinger: So basically all the little things he's doing for Helen to get her trust are working on you two.

I mean, okay. I hope you're right. I don't know.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I hope, I hope that that is true, but unclear. I've always respected Helen as a grown adult who can make her own decisions. The only intervention I've had with her is [00:48:00] gently telling her that the celebrities on Facebook were not in fact celebrities, but just scammers.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. Okay. That says a lot. That's not encouraging.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that makes me think she's vulnerable. Yeah. Gullible. That's hmm. So she goes on. I've encouraged her to draw boundaries with Jack, Jill, and her ex-boyfriend, but ultimately it's something she needs to do. I don't want to be another person in her life trying to control her.

On the other hand, I'm concerned that she's been set up to be taken advantage of. She's built up a bit of wealth through her government pension, so I worry that people close to her are just trying to get some of it. Is this actually a problem, or is the strange feeling in my gut misguided? How can I help Helen draw boundaries with her friends when she doesn't want the help they're giving?

Also, she's terrified of going to a nursing home one day. If Jack has power of attorney, can he decide to put her there against her will? What can I do to protect Helen from being taken advantage of signed protecting Helen from these potential felons without aggression, taking [00:49:00] possession. Or giving the wrong impression.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man, what a tricky situation this is. First of all, it sounds like you and your family have been an extraordinary presence in Helen's life. You've embraced her. You've treated her with love and respect. You've made her your family, not because you were angling for anything, but because you genuinely wanted to.

And this is all super touching. Helen is very lucky to have you guys in her life,

Gabriel Mizrahi: so fortunate.

Jordan Harbinger: Second, as you can tell, I am having a very strong reaction to Jack and Jill. I feel like I've seen this movie before.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I think Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of money. Money,

Jordan Harbinger: yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I would not mind if Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after Candidly, and the whole thing would ideally be caught on the spy. Can they set up in her freaking living room so that we could watch the footage and laugh again, maybe doing years of feedback. Friday has made me very cynical about situations like this.

It's just hard not to assume the worst, but so much of what you've shared just screams elder abuse to me, or at least [00:50:00] vague elder manipulation. Look, is it possible that Jack and Jill do genuinely care about Helen? They wanna protect her from her scammy ex-boyfriend, assuming that the guy even really is scamming her and he is not just an enemy they needed to take out, which I'm, I don't know.

I'm on the fence there. Yeah, it's possible. If they are crooks, they could probably get away with doing a lot less for her. I don't wanna take away from the fact that Jack is very useful with financial stuff and apparently super generous. So maybe they're not out and out monsters. But becoming executor of her estate, cutting out another person who might have benefited from her situation.

Jumping right into this, we love you, Helen. You're our family. Call us Auntie Jill. That thing not coming to you guys, like here's what we're seeing. Here's how we can help. You guys have known Helen longer. What do you guys think? Basically, just not collaborating with you to form a respectful care team for Helen.

I dunno, this smacks of maneuvering to me, at a minimum, they sound pushy and controlling and not particularly interested in what Helen actually wants. And the [00:51:00] fact that your gut is telling you something's off, that you feel very uncomfortable with Jack and with Jill. That's not slam dunk proof that they're trying to get her assets, but it is important data.

Intuition is far from the science, but it can be weirdly accurate sometimes, and it's not just you. Helen is uncomfortable with a lot of this too from what you've said, and that's actually what matters the most.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, also, this is kind of a theme for Helen, right? She struggles to assert herself. She kind of avoids conflict.

She probably feels guilty telling these seemingly generous people, Hey, can you back off? I don't really want all this help. Mm-hmm. But that is part of what makes her vulnerable.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I don't want an iPhone 16 Pro Max. I want my Motorola razor. What was that thing that everybody wanted back in the the side?

I want a sidekick,

Gabriel Mizrahi: the race, the sidekick. You think Helen's on a sidekick. I think she's on a sidekick. I think she's on a flip phone, bro. Is

Jordan Harbinger: on an Nokia. But you're in a tough position here. 'cause if you go to Helen, like you need to push back against Jack and Jill. Here's what I think they're trying to do.

Here's an attorney I want you to talk to, even if you are like a hundred percent right, okay. You risk becoming like Jack and Jill, which is an infuriating [00:52:00] aspect of this problem. And you also risk putting Helen in an even more difficult spot. So what I would do is. First of all, stay close to Helen. Keep inviting her over.

Keep asking questions about her life, about what Jack and Jill are doing, and generally just make it safe for her to tell you what is going on. If she ever expresses serious concerns about what they're doing or just seems totally overwhelmed and confused, maybe then you say, Helen, I know Jack and Jill have done a lot for you.

It's very sweet. I also hear you that some of the things they've done have made you uncomfortable. I just wanna make sure you feel that you're being taken care of in the way that you want. Do you wanna tell me about that? Is there anything you need right now? Make it an ongoing conversation. And if she's like, I don't want their help anymore, they can confuse me.

I'm scared. Whatever it is, maybe you tell her. If you ever need support in saying no to something or setting a boundary, you don't have to manage that alone. That would be a very nice way to keep her in the driver's seat while still influencing a potentially exploitative situation. [00:53:00] It also shifts the conversation from Jack and Jill.

Are skeezy scammers trying to get your house, you need to drop them to, you know, listen, you have options. You're not alone. Although I will say Helen might be at a point of decline and Jack and Jill may be at a point of power I. That you just can't afford to be that respectful. It really depends on how willing you are to stand up for her, protect your own interests, and go tet a tet with these two, which I'm sure is gonna be a bit of a battle.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I mean these, these people seem highly motivated and also quite suspicious, right? Even if they do mean well on some level.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So there are a few concrete things you can do to protect Helen right now. First, keep encouraging as much transparency as possible. Tell Helen what's happening. Help her understand what she signed, what she's agreed to.

If she doesn't understand or even remember, then maybe you suggest that she speak with an attorney of her own, someone specializing in elder law. You could even help her find that person. I would also ask them if a guardianship or something similar is appropriate in a situation like this. [00:54:00] Also, I would document everything that happens with Helen and with Jack and Jill, your conversations, your observations, what you learned secondhand.

I would especially document the conversations where Helen expresses discomfort or confusion. I'm not telling you to build a case just yet, but you wanna have this record ready in case her wishes are disputed. For example, if you end up in litigation with Jack and Jill over the house, this documentation could be the difference between enjoying a rightful inheritance and watching these people essentially abscond with her assets.

And if you get any more evidence that Jack and Jill are engaging in elder abuse or doing anything shady, I would absolutely contact Adult Protective Services. We talked about this on a recent episode about the neighbor who got caught up in the romance scam. A PS can investigate cases where an elderly person is being targeted.

They can coordinate with law enforcement. They can offer counseling, legal intervention, especially financial safeguards. They can even help with guardianship or conservatorship if the person can't protect themselves. Gabriel, I just thought of something. They said they needed the camera [00:55:00] to catch her ex in a confession, why?

He's not the executor of the estate. He doesn't apparently have power over her finances anymore. They don't need to catch him confessing anything that's over with now. They're not gonna get the money back. The camera excuse is nonsense. Doesn't make sense.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Unless he says something that suggests he was stealing from her or he steals from her on camera or something.

I dunno if

Jordan Harbinger: he walks in and goes, I embezzled all the money that I was sold. I was buying groceries with you. Okay then, then the police go, Hey, give the money back. And he goes, sorry, I spent it. And then what? You got a civil case against this guy for five grand. Useless.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, I think what you're getting at is that the camera might be for our friend and our family here, they want to keep an eye on them.

Jordan Harbinger: The reason the camera is in there is not because they need to catch the X in a confession that's complete bs.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It's 'cause they want to control Helen and know what she's talking about with everyone else. Correct? Yeah. Oh boy. Well, about Jack putting Helen in a nursing home. If he has medical power of attorney, he could potentially make decisions about Helen's care.

But generally, my understanding is that it's only if [00:56:00] she becomes incapacitated. If he has financial power of attorney, he would have control over her finances but not her living arrangements. If it's what's called durable power of attorney, he could potentially act even when she's mentally sound, which would be even more concerning given everything he's done already.

The good news is if Helen is competent and lucid, and it sounds like she mostly is, no one can legally force her into a nursing home. But if she starts slipping cognitively and Jack is the one with all the authority. He could potentially make that call, especially if he frames it as being in her best interest.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. By the way, nice. You, you know as much about this law as I do now. Um, that's why it's so essential for Helen to understand what she signed and why. I really want her to have her own legal counsel here who works for her. But really the best thing you can do is make sure that the will still stipulates that you get the house, if that was indeed the arrangement.

So I would've a conversation with Helen about that in your home, not in front of the camera that Jack set up. Like, Hey, we want to be able to plan for this. [00:57:00] Our attorney wants to know, Hey, have you changed your mind? If so, that's fine. Did Jack change the will? I don't wanna get all up in your business. I really feel bad about that, but we don't wanna make major life decisions around this if the plan has changed and if Helen's like, no, that's absolutely in the will.

I made sure that I remember it clearly. Maybe you guys can rest a little easier. I still think you should see the will with your own eyes. And I don't think it matters as much if Jack is the executor, if the will is clear and her own attorney has a notarized copy and Jack doesn't have like the real version somewhere else, right?

But if Helen's like, oh, I don't know, I'm kind of confused. Jack talked to the lawyer and straightened everything out, then you need to get a copy of that Will, I would say just do that as a matter of good. Cause. Perhaps with Helen's help, she is obviously allowed to ask for it, see what it actually says, and go to a lawyer with that.

Because if you get a piece of paper that's not notarized and you know not signed, that's not the will, that ain't it. That's notes and that's not gonna be binding. If you find out that Jack changed the [00:58:00] will and Helen isn't on board with it, you call Adult Protective Services immediately. You get your own lawyer involved, you include Helen in these conversations, and you fix this before it's too late.

So bottom line, keep showing up for Helen. Stay as close as possible. Document, document, document. Keep her in the driver's seat as much as appropriate. The sad reality is that normal, nice people like you often lose to more ruthless people like this 'cause it's just, it's not in your nature. It to angle for someone else's assets all the time and make a big plan and design your life around it.

But a more conniving person, they don't mind doing that. They're con men. They often win. So you gotta be ready to get a little tough. If it means countering Jack and Jill's unfair shenanigans, they might see her as an easy target. Your job is to make that less true. I'm sorry this is happening. Helen is very lucky to have you guys in her life do right by her and you can't go wrong.

Good luck. And now Jack and Jill are gonna go up the hill to fetch some deals and discounts on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. [00:59:00] I've got homes. Dot com is the sponsor for this episode. homes.com knows what when it comes to home shopping. It's never just about the house or the condo.

It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids, it's also schools nearby parks, transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond To bring home shoppers, the in-depth information they need to find the right home.

It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in-depth information, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student teacher ratio.

They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. homes.com. We've done your homework. This episode is sponsored in part by Audible. People always ask me how I managed to get through so much content, especially since I prep for every interview.

I'm [01:00:00] talking two to three books a week, and it's all thanks to Audible. I've got audible in my ears while I'm getting my 10,000 steps in running errands, even doing stuff around the house. I don't mess with physical books anymore at all. Audible's, just way more efficient. I listen on two or even three X speed, which lets me cover a lot of ground without sacrificing quality.

Right now, I'm listening to Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy. She's got this really down to earth way of talking about parenting that is not preachy. And here's what a lot of people don't realize. Audible is not just audio books anymore. You get access to thousands of titles with your membership, podcasts, audible originals, and cool stuff like their words in music series where artists tell their stories in their own words.

The variety makes the membership way more valuable, so you never run outta great stuff to check out. One day I'm deep in a parenting guide. The next, it's a podcast or a spy thriller. So whether you're into suspense, self-development, or you just wanna make traffic suck less, audible's got you covered,

Jen Harbinger: start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat.

New members can try Audible now free for 30 days and dive into a world of new thrills. Visit audible.com/jhs or text JHS to 500 500. That's [01:01:00] audible.com/jhs or text JHS to 500 500.

Jordan Harbinger: This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. At one point, Jen and I decided to try our hand at being Airbnb hosts. Not just staying in places, but opening up our own home.

And honestly, it turned out to be way more rewarding than we expected. When we were building our place here in Silicon Valley Bay area, we actually designed a separate guest suite. It's got its own private entrance that was a hundred percent inspired by some of the awesome Airbnbs we'd stayed at over the years.

We figured, why not create the kind of experience we always appreciated? Maybe even level it up a little. So we left a cheat sheet with our go-to spots, good coffee, legit dumplings, favorite pizza, joint, you know, stuff locals actually eat. And the guests, we've had some really cool guests. One guy was Stan Long term.

We ended up inviting him to a family barbecue, which is kind of funny. It's wild how hosting can turn into a real connection like that. We hit pause when the kids were little, but we definitely plan to host again down the line. It's just such a great way to stay connected to the world. And if you're thinking about hosting, I say go for it.

Find out more at airbnb.com/host. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do [01:02:00] what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment, support the sponsors all the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the website over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

If that doesn't work, email us. We're happy to dig up codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the shell. Now, back to feedback Friday and now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to it, fella.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So as you guys know, I'm getting ready to leave on this big trip and I've had to pack up my apartment and get my stuff in order.

So I've been, you know, cleaning out drawers and shelves and cabinets and old storage containers that I haven't looked at in years. Stuff like that. And I'm just remembering how amazing it feels to clean out a space, like even just a tiny corner or a small drawer. So I. I'm going through shelves and you know that one horrible drawer everyone has where you just throw all your miscellaneous stuff.

We always like one or two of those.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I have rooms full of those drawers. Yes. I've been

Gabriel Mizrahi: doing that and I've been feeling this wave of relief. It is just so [01:03:00] liberating to get rid of stuff and clarifying, to organize stuff and purge and you know, all of that. And it's really nice to give things away to friends or donate them to charities or whatever and know that somebody is actually getting used to the stuff that most of us just have lying around.

Nobody's getting anything out of it. So my recommendation of the week is just that taking one space and I think the smaller the space, the better. And just cleaning it out. I'm not trying to go all, you know, what's her name?

Jordan Harbinger: Marie Kondo. Marie Kondo. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But it is a very powerful practice. The psychological benefits of decluttering are real.

I don't know why we have this tendency to accumulate stuff in this world. It's kind of a western thing. I, I wish I had been doing this for the last two or three years while I lived in this apartment, so I could have enjoyed. More space, more simplicity, more freedom. But it's just a great practice and I invite you to do it.

And also, bonus tip, whenever you have a little gap where you don't know what to do in your day, or you're like, should I do something? Should I go take a nap or whatever? Play Wordle or you're on a phone call. [01:04:00] Just pick a drawer, choose a cabinet, and just go through it while you're doing whatever else.

Listening to a podcast or taking a call, just make it a little meditation, a little practice. It'll change your life. And I'm gonna do it in the next department I get into. Nice.

Jordan Harbinger: Also, in case you didn't know, there's a subreddit for our show. If you want to jump into discussions, there's a lot of discussion on our subreddit over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit about the episodes.

There's a meme thread. It's just a lot of fun, a lot of good takes, a lot of good critiques of things and discussions going on in there. So if you're a redditor, go ahead and find us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I was recently at the post office to renew my passport, not wanting to pay 20 bucks to have a single photo taken.

I went into my tiny truck in the parking lot to Photoshop a picture of my face. It was like a hundred degrees out, and my AC wasn't working, so I had the windows rolled down. That's when this guy walks up to my window and starts telling me that I should become a model repeatedly saying that I have a beautiful face, that I could be in photo [01:05:00] shoots with hot women.

Oh, who talks like that? Of course, as an eligible bachelor, I am intrigued, but I'm also aware that I'm not exactly what people would describe as a 10. I'm maybe like a six at best. I ain't butt ugly, but I've also never been told by anyone that I should become a model.

Jordan Harbinger: Hey, don't be so hard on yourself, bro.

Someone out there has to be the ugliest model.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. All right. That that No AC sheen on your face probably added at least a point.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's a hot look right there. Literally.

Gabriel Mizrahi: This man referred to himself as Gigi was flamboyantly gay and mentioned that he was going to gender transition soon. He also told me to call him in 10 days as he was going to Brazil that night, but when I looked into the business card that he gave me, things got way sketchier.

The business on the card was for a hair salon, not a modeling agency. The address belonged to a house at the end of a street next to a park with a wooded area. And when searching for the business on the internet, I only found one website with an address. That's it. Google Maps, [01:06:00] apple Maps, and Chat. GPT came up with nothing.

Deep search on Grok did find some interesting details. It gave a link to this guy's website, which looked like something created in the early two thousands. The website referred to the business as a hair salon and said, cash or check only. Grok also told me the house was worth over $600,000, which means this guy would at least have enough money to create an online presence as one would expect from a modeling agency.

GR also mentioned that this guy allegedly runs charity events in San Antonio. Everyone I've told this story to thinks he's a trafficker. Either that or he's doing something shady as hell. At the very least, he saw me sweating in a sleeveless shirt in my busted truck in a post office parking lot, Photoshopping a picture of my face, and probably saw me as a mark

Jordan Harbinger: or as a potential date.

I'm getting more weirdo vibes from this guy, more than trafficker. It

Gabriel Mizrahi: seems like the more likely explanation I tried calling the FBI to tell them I don't fear danger. I would be super down to do a sting on this guy, but doing it on my own [01:07:00] without some sort of backup would be a very bad idea. But the person on the line just came off as super dismissive, so I'm not even concerned they took any of this seriously.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah,

Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah, dude. I'm sure Special Agent Fenwick was like, yeah, dude, this guy's cruising. You leave us alone while you calling me. Seriously, like,

Jordan Harbinger: sir, do you think this is the only cock hustler in the Dallas Fort Worth metropolitan area? I'm a little busy chasing bank robbers and Santa cartel operatives.

You want me to set up a six month sting operation on Gigi? The transgender lot lizard? Come on, man. Yes, it's catchy and the crowds love it,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but to simply do nothing seems like an even worse option. Do you have any contact information you could send my way for people? I could bring this info to signed. Not trying to be a complainer, but it seems like a no-brainer that this dude is a dangerous player who wants to put me in a shipping container.

Jordan Harbinger: Man, so many strange characters in this [01:08:00] world, Gabe, I'm obviously thinking about that guy from a few months back who, what? He bought the church next to a listener's house and he was hosting networking events that may or may not have been low key. Human trafficking meetups, brothel, whatever.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Weird parallels between these two men.

Also very similar websites. All these guys have the same web aesthetic. It's like Geocity circa 1999.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Have you not heard of Squarespace, Gigi? It's Dragon drops squarespace.com/jordan, by the way, 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So yeah, obviously a bizarre story. Probably a shady dude.

I mean, picking up slash recruiting a random person in A-U-S-P-S parking lot while he's schitz in his 2004 Ford Ranger. You gotta be a little dodgy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: At least pick 'em up in a FedEx parking lot Kinko's. That's right. What are, are they the same company now? I get confused.

Jordan Harbinger: FedEx Kinko's. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Closet up a little,

Jordan Harbinger: huh?

That's right. But is he a human trafficker? Eh, I don't know about that. The evidence is a little flimsy. I think it's just as likely he's a vaguely skeezy former or current hairdresser who is [01:09:00] using the modeling thing as an excuse to talk to you. Maybe try to recruit you into some kind of adult photo shoot or amateur porn thing that benefits him somehow.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Although one of the things that Layla McKelway talked to you about in her interview was that there is kind of a blurry line between recruiting people for pornography potentially, and what's actually human trafficking.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's true. And Corbin, Payne has told us that the legal definition of human trafficking is quite broad and vague, possibly by design.

So you're right. Who knows? Also, why was he going to Brazil? What's that about? Is he going down there for Carnival or is he trying to find new talent and bring them back in whatever shipping containers?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, carnival is in February, so that can't be it.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Or maybe he's down there getting the gender transition surgery done or whatever in 10

Gabriel Mizrahi: days.

Jordan Harbinger: 10 days. I don't know how long it takes. Maybe you get it done on day one and you recover for nine days. I have no idea.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. I don't think that's outpatient. I think you need some more time. Maybe. I just feel like you don't go down to Brazil and be like, call me in a week and a half and we'll pick up where we left off.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I really have no idea.

Gabriel Mizrahi: None of this makes sense.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:10:00] None of it. I'm not convinced. He never said he was a modeling agent. People cut hair out of their houses all the time. That's not incriminating on its own. Small businesses are allowed to not accept credit cards in 2025. Even those square and a zillion other platforms exist and it's kind of weird not to.

So yeah, this guy's up to something and you are right to be suspicious of a stranger trying to recruit you into modeling in a post office parking lot, which is just an amazing location for a hustle slash key gay dude pickup kind of thing. I just don't know if this guy's a bonafide trafficker.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, I'm looking at this dude's photo on his website.

The biggest crime he seems to have committed in my view, is wearing this, I don't know how to describe it. Gold embroidered kaf with this Caesar haircut and this giant turquoise ring on his finger. That's what I'm saying. Dave

Jordan Harbinger: Savage. Now you sound like a gay hairdresser slash human trafficker.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Why the human trafficker part?

I know. I'll take the first half of that. This photo is actually incredible. I can't stop looking at it.

Jordan Harbinger: This is so weird. So just so you guys can picture this, now that I'm looking at it, he's posed, leaning [01:11:00] to one side on a bunch of I. Brightly colored blankets and bedazzled pillows in front of what appears like, I guess it's a swimming pool surrounded by gaudy wine, old timey wine glasses and what appears to be a bowl of, what is that a, is that assorted stone fruit?

What is happening here?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Peaches of some kind. They look like emoji peaches. I don't know. It's giving peewee Herman outta a Roman orgy. Oh yes. That's what I'm thinking.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, absolutely. It looks like if 1980s Dustin Hoffman started cross-dressing and doing tarot cards in a yurt,

Gabriel Mizrahi: he looks like the fortune teller at a traveling carnival who also like manages the talent.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, man. The amazing Gigi. Exactly. Skims off the top of everyone's paycheck as an agent fee. Unless you like rub his feet after the show. Maybe he is a human trafficker. I don't know.

Gabriel Mizrahi: He looks like someone you would run into at Little Fingers Brothel in Game of Thrones. Yes, exactly. Just like a passing character who knows all everybody's secrets and then you don't really talk about he's credited

Jordan Harbinger: as brothel customer number three.

Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. [01:12:00]

Gabriel Mizrahi: I wonder if you can call anyone involved with these charity events in San Antonio. And just see what you can learn about this guy.

Jordan Harbinger: That's an idea. Ask the venue where he hosts them. See if they know anything. Reach out to vendors for the events, people who have attended. If you can piece that together, if he's done something egregious, I'm sure they'd be down to talk.

Another easy thing you can do, pull one of those cheap background checks on this guy and see if he has a criminal history. Any strange assets, weird debts. These reports aren't gonna be like slam dunk proof. Definitely a human trafficker, but you can sometimes put a picture together if you really have a bug up your ass about this guy, you can put in the time to do some investigating and see if you can gather more evidence.

But that's really the only thing that's gonna make law enforcement even consider taking this seriously. And you might have to try multiple agencies, including local police, not the FBI. You're gonna have to be patient, but I'm just not convinced that this guy is as bad as you think he is. I know we're having a laugh.

I appreciate that you wanna protect people, but he could just, I. Really easily just be an odd duck looking to earn a quick [01:13:00] buck and or holler at a sweaty stranger in broad daylight. It's hard to find a statute that criminalizes shooting your shot, even if you're barking up the wrong tree. But let us know if you learned anything else.

I'd love to air an update on discount Paul Rubins Peewee Herman Over here, as you can see, Gigi is maybe gonna be a new favorite feedback Friday character. Get that AC fixed bra, roll those windows up and take care of yourself. Go back and check out the episode with Gareth Gore If you haven't done so yet.

The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like and trust, and I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course. It is free. It is not gross. You don't have to approach people in post office parking lots.

You can find it on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. That's a website that was designed after 1999 and and should be working and functioning As such, the drills take a few minutes a day. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them again, all@sixminutenetworking.com.

Show notes and transcripts, advertisers [01:14:00] discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with PodcastOne.

My team is Jen Harbinger. Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.

If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.