1320: The Moon | Skeptical Sunday

1320: The Moon | Skeptical Sunday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] This episode is brought to you by Lufthansa. Lufthansa Allegris is an innovative, elevated travel experience across all classes, focusing on each person with their own individual and situational needs. Look forward to your own feel good moment above the clouds. Visit lufthansa.com and search for Allegris to learn more.

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Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger, and today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer, and researcher Jessica Wynn. You know, every time I do this intro, I always feel like that sounds weird, and then that's when I realize you'll never be able to tell AI, because you know AI does unnatural stuff, Jessica, where it's like.

I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger, and it's like, oh, that sounded a little weird. And that's like, no, that's actually how I really sound when I do this with my real voice for some reason. I don't know.

Jessica Wynn: You sound great.

Jordan Harbinger: Thank you. I needed that. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you [00:01:00] become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, spies, to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays though, it's Skeptical Sunday where a rotating guest, co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as circumcisions, sovereign citizens, diet supplements, the lottery, ear candling, self-help cults, bottled water, and more.

And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.

Just visit jordanharbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, we're talking about the moon, which has been blamed for everything from crime sprees to bad haircuts to why your barista was acting suss this morning. So the question is, is the moon actually influencing human behavior at all?

Moods, actions, chaos? [00:02:00] Or are we just telling ourselves old lunar legends? The moon has always had a grip on us. It's right there. It's up there. You can see it. It shows up on a schedule. It changes shape. It feels important somehow. It has gravity, if you will. So what's actually going on up there? Joining me to help separate real lunar effects from folklore is writer and researcher, Jessica Wynn.

So Jessica, it seems like whenever something goes sideways, you get a bad mood, you got bad luck, you got a weird night, eventually someone shrugs and goes, "Well, it is a full moon." Like that explains it.

Jessica Wynn: I know. Whatever phase it's in is the cause.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. It's a waxing gibbeth, so, you know.

Jessica Wynn: Right. Right. Look out.

Look out for those scorpions. I don't know. The moon is the most successful scapegoat in human history. It's been blamed for madness, violence, romance, bad decisions, you name it. If something feels chaotic, the moon is a very convenient reason. It can sometimes be like astrology for people who don't believe in astrology.

Jordan Harbinger: And everyone suddenly becomes extremely confident about the moon's effects. They don't study it, but, you [00:03:00] know, they somehow they know.

Jessica Wynn: That's called the priming effect. And once an idea is out there, your brain starts looking for proof, not consciously, but automatically. So if your coworker says, "Heads up, it's a full moon tonight," then your mind shifts into pattern hunting mode and you start watching for weirdness.

You notice the unusual patient, the strange customer, or like an unhinged email.

Jordan Harbinger: So it's kind of confirmation bias too, right? Like every time you see one of those, you go, "Aha, see the moon," or whatever.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, sort of. I mean, they're related. They're not exactly the same thing. Priming is the setup. It's the unconscious nudge that puts an idea in your head.

Confirmation bias is what happens next when you ignore everything that doesn't support the idea.

Jordan Harbinger: So priming loads the gun and confirmation bias, pulls the trigger kind of, hammers it in afterwards anyway. The analogy falls apart. Who cares?

Jessica Wynn: The priming effect creates the mindset and confirmation bias just reinforces it.

So together, they make patterns feel real even when [00:04:00] they aren't. And with the moon especially, calm nights don't become stories, but a strange night with a bright full moon gets remembered, repeated, and slowly upgraded to, "Well, this always happens."

Jordan Harbinger: So is there anything to it? Because I roll my eyes at all this, but people don't hesitate.

They're like, "No, no, no. Stuff definitely happens. Check the statistics, bro. Look it up." Right? It's one of those.

Jessica Wynn: Well, let's start with why the belief makes sense. The moon feels powerful. It's visible. It changes its appearance. It shows up reliably and predictably. None of that is an illusion. Every culture has built myths around it.

It guided calendars, farming and religious observances and rituals. So this cultural importance trained humans over thousands of years pre-science to associate the moon with power and influence.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So we're not crazy for feeling like the moon has vibes.

Jessica Wynn: Right.

Jordan Harbinger: I'll ask the most basic question here. Why do we even have a [00:05:00] moon?

Because not every planet gets one, poor little castrated Mercury and Venus. There's no floating balls for them.

Jessica Wynn: Nope. And, and about 4.5 billion years ago, a Mars-sized object called Theia slammed into proto-Earth. It wasn't a tap. This was an extinction level collision. And material from Earth's mantle and chunks from Theia blasted into orbit.

That debris clumped together and became the moon. And what's wild is we used to think this took millions of years, but newer simulations suggest it may have happened in just hours, but that's up for debate.

Jordan Harbinger: That's pretty interesting. I actually did not know that. So the moon is made of earth's guts and green cheese or whatever.

So we're for sure this happened.This is like the exected sciences. Wow.

Jessica Wynn: Yes. Yeah. Multiple lines of evidence. Moon rocks brought back by Apollo missions are chemically identical to Earth's mantle. It's the same oxygen ratios, titanium, [00:06:00] tungsten isotopes, and the moon has almost no iron core. So it's less than 2% compared to earth's 30%, which makes sense if it formed from surface material.

Plus, it lacks volatile elements like water because the impact literally vaporized them into space.

Jordan Harbinger: I wonder if there was anything living on earth at that time or if it was just too early. But anyway, that's a different show probably. Yeah. That's a heck of an origin story. So the moon is literally born from interplanetary violence.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. And that violence changed everything. It's why earth became habitable.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh.

Jessica Wynn: So the moon sped up earth's rotation. It stabilized earth's axial tilt. You know, without the moon, the earth would wobble wildly, which is what Mars does, just swings between these extreme tilts.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah, I didn't know that. Okay, so that would be devastating for life because we kind of need some stability.

People think like, oh, winter and summer, the difference is crazy, but we don't have negative 200 [00:07:00] degrees and positive 200 degrees or whatever. So we owe the moon, um, the minimum. We owe it a thank you card.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, at minimum. Because it does some genuinely incredible things.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so what does the moon actually do besides give yoga instructors in LA something to discuss over matcha lattes?

Jessica Wynn: Well, tides are the big one. You know, the moon's gravity pulls on earth's oceans, creating two bulges.

Jen Harbinger: Oh, gigantic gigging.

Jordan Harbinger: All right. I'm done.

Jessica Wynn: One on the side facing the moon and one on the opposite side due to inertia.

Jordan Harbinger: So the ocean is sloshing in two directions at once.

Jessica Wynn: Correct. This gives us predictable rises and falls, and the sun gets involved too.

When the sun and moon line up, during full moons and new moons, you get spring tides, higher highs, lower lows. When they're at right angles during quarter moons, you get neap tides, which are much calmer. So the predictability is why, like, surfers [00:08:00] know what week, day, and even hour will be best for waves.

Jordan Harbinger: So spring tide, that has nothing to do with the season.

Jessica Wynn: Nothing. Spring as in the tide springs forth.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: Some places experience tidal changes of 50 feet or more. Wow. It can be really wild. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That explains why the oceans move. So this is the part where somebody takes a real thing, tides, and applies it to a completely different thing, your body and is like, "Well, humans are mostly water."

I remember going over something like this when we talked about astrology, and one of the arguments that pro- astrology people make is like, these are super powerful galactic sized magnets, and you don't think a magnet affects your brain. And the answer is no, because the magnetic force is like minuscule, especially at distance.

And so no, that argument doesn't hold up at all. And also magnets on your brain when you're born, definitely don't dictate whether or not you stay single or get married or get a promotion next week or something, right? That's just totally ridiculous. But, but this sounds similar, [00:09:00] right? Because they're like, "Well, humans are 98% water.

So if the moon affects the tides, of course it's sloshing around water in your body and your cells in a different way and yada, yada, yada."

Jessica Wynn: Right. I mean, you can sort of understand how people can make that assumption.

Jordan Harbinger: I can follow the logic. It's just that it's probably not

Jessica Wynn: true. But then if you think about it-

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Jessica Wynn: It's when physics comes in yelling, like, no, stop what you're saying because tides aren't about water. They're about scale and differential pull across something huge. But sure, let's do the math on this really common claim because it does use facts. Humans are around 60% water. The moon causes tides. Those are both true statements.

When people then say, "Therefore, the moon must pull on the water in our bodies and affect us," it's a false equivalency.

Jordan Harbinger: But see this on social media, hear it in casual conversation, even from educated people. It just, I don't know, it feels like it should be true.

Jessica Wynn: Right. The, the problem is it [00:10:00] demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how gravity and tidal forces work.

The critical part is the scale. So tidal forces aren't just about gravity, they're about differential gravity, and that's different. They depend on the difference in gravitational pull across an object. So this difference in gravitational force across a large body, like the ocean, creates tidal bulges.

There is a tidal force formula. It's proportional to mass time size divided by distance cubed.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So complex. I'm not doing that now.

Jessica Wynn: The size of the object being affected is crucial. So tidal forces get stronger as objects get bigger. They get weaker very rapidly with distance. That's the distance cubed part.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So if the moon is pulling strongly on the northern part of an ocean and less so on the southern part of the ocean, the water sloshes in that direction. That totally makes sense. But [00:11:00] your body being relatively small, we're not sloshing. We're not sloshing anywhere.

Jessica Wynn: Right. It's just that oceans are massive enough for these tidal forces to matter.

Jordan Harbinger: Sure.

Jessica Wynn: Ocean water can move freely across enormous basins, like these huge connected regions of the ocean that span thousands of miles. Your body isn't like that. Water in your body is contained in cells, blood vessels, organs. It all holds water in place. So even if there were a tidal force, there's not. But even if there were, your body's structure would prevent any movement.

Your body's not a water balloon. It's a highly organized, compartmentalized system. You're just too small for tidal forces to matter.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. So my blood is not responding to the moon phases and making waves because it's being pumped around by my heart and other things in my body.

Jessica Wynn: Definitely not. Right.

Your circulatory system is a closed loop with pumps that completely overwhelm any external [00:12:00] gravitational effect.

Jordan Harbinger: So across the ocean is thousands of miles. Across the human body, it's five or six feet, and across the cell, it's like, I don't know, what do you measure that in? Micrometers? Right. Yeah, something like that.

So there's no effect on us at all, really.

Jessica Wynn: None. You're not a tiny ocean. Compared to Earth's 8,000 mile diameter, six feet is infinitesimally small.

Jordan Harbinger: So s- size matters. I knew it once again.

Jessica Wynn: I, I tell you this every episode.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

Jessica Wynn: Scale is everything.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So, so earth's oceans are just perfect. They're just the perfect size.

Jessica Wynn: Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. The water on the moon facing side is about 8,000 miles closer to the moon than water on the far side.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: That difference matters at ocean scale. So the gravitational pull varies measurably across that distance. The result is those water bulges going toward and away from the moon. So every day forces you experience are millions of times stronger than that.

Jordan Harbinger: What do you mean everyday forces? That feels like a bold [00:13:00] claim? I don't know. Tell me more about that.

Jessica Wynn: Well, think about it. A swimming pool doesn't show tides. A small lake doesn't show tides. You know, the Great Lake shows minimal tides. Yeah, they're huge. Like two to four inch ... Yeah, two to four inches max.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: And that's because it's across hundreds of miles.

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Jessica Wynn: Or put a cup of water on the table. That water is the same percentage H2O as your body. Does the cup show tides? No. Does the water slosh toward the moon? No. I mean, why not?

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, I guess if you could measure something on like a, a tiniest of scales, you might find something, but then also then go down to the cellular level when it's like not there.

And even if it were, it would be overwhelmed by like osmotic pressure or something. Right. So these things are all too small for tidal forces to have any measurable effect at all.

Jessica Wynn: Right. And look, if you're sitting next to someone, their gravitational pull on you is stronger than the moon's tidal effect on you.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay, that's a good way of putting it. So the gravitational pull from my MacBook or whatever is [00:14:00] probably as strong as the title for something that the moon has- Stronger. ... on my desk or something. So by this logic, I should be tracking human phase effects, right? If s- sit next to my, my wife or something and she's pulling on me.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, right. Like, "Oh, sorry I did that wrong. My coworker was sitting too close during the meeting." Exactly. Would be the excuse.

Jordan Harbinger: The belief is basically that the moon is out there pulling on us, pulling on our bodies, pulling on our blood, uh, somehow that affects our moods enough to make people act differently.

Jessica Wynn: That's the claim that lunar gravity is subtly influencing your behavior.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Other than the fact that you just explained why that's not really possible, it does feel plausible, actually.

Jessica Wynn: I guess. But here's where else it falls apart. Even the building you're sitting in right now exerts more gravitational force on you than the moon's tidal effect does.

Jordan Harbinger: Sure.

Jessica Wynn: So if gravity worked that way, architecture would be controlling our moods.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Open floor plans suddenly make a lot more sense. Yeah. That really puts it into perspective.That's interesting, right? You're working in a skyscraper, so it blocks the moon's [00:15:00] effects, you know, if you want to.

Jessica Wynn: Sure.

Jordan Harbinger: You've got to protect yourself.

Or if you work in

Jessica Wynn: a basement, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's so interesting. So

Jessica Wynn: it's all kinds of things have more of an effect on you. Your phone versus the moon, I mean, forget it. When you're holding your phone, its gravitational pull on you is stronger than the moon's differential tidal force because your phone is much, much closer to you.

Jordan Harbinger: So my phone is influencing me more than the moon, even when it's off.

Jessica Wynn: Even when it's off, by orders of magnitude, gravity falls off with the square of distance, so tidal forces fall off with the cube of distance.

Jordan Harbinger: So distance really kills the vibe. Got it. Okay.

Jessica Wynn: Very, very fast. Yeah. Earth's gravity is 9.8 meters per second squared, so that's constant and overwhelming.

The moon's additional pull on you is about three millionths of that.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

Jessica Wynn: So for comparison, like riding an elevator creates acceleration forces thousands of times stronger, walking upstairs too, [00:16:00] turning your head quickly creates stronger forces on the fluid in your inner ear than anything lunar ever could.

Jordan Harbinger: So the moon is not tugging on me emotionally. Gravity-wise, it barely knows I'm here.

Jessica Wynn: But the moon does play a huge role on a planetary scale, so it acts like a gyroscopic stabilizer for Earth's axial tilt, which is about 23.5 degrees. The tilt is the reason we have seasons. You know, if you've ever looked at a globe, that little lean, that's it.

So without the moon, that tilt would wobble wildly.

Jordan Harbinger: That kind of instability would not be good for life as we know it, yeah?

Jessica Wynn: Right. And just like with humans, extreme wobbling leads to instability.

Jordan Harbinger: Too much bounce, not enough support. I know some people with the same problem, actually.

Jessica Wynn: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I know some guys with that problem too.

Jordan Harbinger: It's an inclusive wobble. Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: But if the earth's tilt were unstable and wobbled, it would cause extreme climate shifts, ice ages [00:17:00] and heat spikes. So the stability gives us consistent, predictable seasons over millions of years and allows for stable climate patterns. These make Earth more habitable, and it's why we get seasons instead of chaotic weather.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that sounds deeply unpleasant.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. And another effect is the moon is slowly, slowing earth down.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that feels personal somehow. What's going on there?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. It's called tidal friction, and the moon pulls on Earth's oceans, and even the solid crust creating those tidal bulges.

Jordan Harbinger: Earth's little love handles.

Jessica Wynn: They are like earth love handles, and because earth spins faster than the moon orbits, it drags those bulges slightly ahead of the moon, and the friction between the water, seabed, and earth's crust turns that drag into heat. So that friction, the tidal friction, it acts like a break on earth's rotation.

Jordan Harbinger: So does that mean that our days are getting [00:18:00] longer by some measure?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, about two milliseconds per century.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: But 600 million years ago, that means a day was only 22 hours long.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, wow. Okay.

Jessica Wynn: So meanwhile, that same energy gets transferred to the moon, pushing it farther away, about an inch and a half per year, and this is all measurable physics.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that seems like a more significant difference than two milliseconds per century.

Yeah. So the moon is slowly backing out of this relationship. I don't, I guess I can't really blame it.

Jessica Wynn: Kind of, but very politely. You know, think Homer Simpson sinking into the bushes, but over billions of years.

Jordan Harbinger: So does that change how much light we get or how much moonlight we get or anything like that?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it's more like stretching the day. So as Earth spins more slowly, days get longer by milliseconds, moonlight gets dimmer, tides weaken, and eventually no more total solar eclipses will happen.

Jordan Harbinger: Will it get to the point where the sun and the moon just won't align at all?

Jessica Wynn: Right. Over very long [00:19:00] timescales, that affects how much moonlight reaches us.

So a full moon today gives about 0.1 to 0.3 luxe of light. Sunlight by comparison is over 100,000 locks, but moonlight is still bright enough to cast shadows, and over time, that light is slowly fading.

Jordan Harbinger: And seeing the moon shift in shape and brightness makes it easy to notice something real, changing, and just assume that it might be doing something to us.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, sure. I mean, moonlight is a real physical stimulus. It's actual light. It's not a mystical force. What's different across lunar phases is simply how much reflected sunlight reaches earth, not the moon suddenly exerting new powers.

Jordan Harbinger: So it's not the phase, it's the brightness.

Jessica Wynn: Right. It's just reflected sunlight.

And we do see biological effects in species which are particularly light sensitive, especially in animals that live in tidal zones. So coastal ecosystems and many [00:20:00] marine species have evolved around tidal rhythms, not the moon directly.

Jordan Harbinger: So animals do respond to the moon.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, through light and tides, not mystical energy.

So corals, for one, they spawn in massive synchronized events, time to lunar cycles. On the Great Barrier Reef, corals release eggs and sperm a few nights after the full moon and spring. It's just the schedule. Grunion fish like squiggle onto California beaches during spring tides to reproduce. Polo worms swarm once a year during the last quarter moon in October.

It's just nature's calendar.

Jordan Harbinger: Do we know the mechanisms behind this? How do animals actually know what's happening?

Jessica Wynn: It's a combination of very ordinary light cues, tides, and internal biological clocks. So nocturnal animals are especially sensitive to moonlight. Brighter nights make predators more effective, so prey species often reduce activity during full moons.[00:21:00]

Owls hunt more when visibility improves. Sea turtle hatchlings even navigate by moonlight reflecting off the ocean. All very straightforward mechanisms.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So no fancy metaphysical astrology stuff, just light, basically.

Jessica Wynn: Right. Light changes behavior, but here's the key distinction. Moonlight affects behavior.

The lunar phase is just how much of the moon's surface is lit from our point of view. It doesn't exert any influence on its own.

Jordan Harbinger: Which is disappointing to some people because it's comforting to blame celestial objects instead of ourselves for all of our woes. I mean, I, I can define

Jessica Wynn: that. Wouldn't that be nice?

Yeah. But the moon's innocent, turns out we're the drama.

Jordan Harbinger: So if you've ever blamed a bad decision on the moon, good news. It wasn't the moon. Bad news, that was all you. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Good Chop. I honestly can't remember the last time I set foot in a grocery store.

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Jordan Harbinger.com/news is where you can find it. Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. All my life, I've heard people say it's always crazier during a full moon, right? ERs. The hospitals are supposedly more crowded on the full moon. 911 dispatchers say they're busier. Everybody's got a story. So is there any lunar effect on things like this really?

Jessica Wynn: No. But the people saying it believe it sincerely, and they're trained professionals who deal with chaos for a living. But when we look at the data, I'm talking large data sets, actual statistics, the effect just isn't there. One study looked at hundreds of thousands of ER visits, no full moon effect.

Psychiatric emergencies tracked over multiple years, [00:25:00] no correlation. Trauma admissions, nothing.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh. I've also heard people swear maternity wards spike during full moons. Is there data on that? There's got to be.

Jessica Wynn: That's actually been tested a lot because it is such a common claim. You know, there's millions of babies born every month, from France to North Carolina to India.

Hundreds of thousands of births a day, zero correlation. And the more emergencies that are claimed like more emergency C-sections during full moons also show nothing. No increase, no pattern. The claim that more pregnant women's water breaks during full moons was specifically studied, specifically tested, multiple times, and it always fails.

The belief is obsessively studied because it's easy to measure, and it just never holds up.

Jordan Harbinger: Not even a tiny blip?

Jessica Wynn: Nothing.

Jordan Harbinger: So there's another popular myth that the moon affects blood pressure, and that sounds like what you just explained with the tidal forces, and that's false too, I'm [00:26:00] guessing.

Jessica Wynn: But I'm just surprised how much this one comes up.

You know, the thing is, your blood pressure changes constantly with activity, stress, food, even your posture. So these changes are measured down to millimeters of mercury. If the moon affected blood pressure, the change would be measured in micro units, far below anything physiological. But your blood pressure changes more when you simply stand up out of a chair than it could ever change from something lunar.

Jordan Harbinger: So I've heard people say that you should avoid medical procedures and surgery during the full moon, also BS, right?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. People claim it causes increased bleeding. This has also been studied. Thousands of procedures studied over years. No increase in bleeding, no increase in complications, no problems with recovery.

That belief comes from ancient humoral medicine.

Jordan Harbinger: What is humoral medicine?

Jessica Wynn: So it was a really popular medical theory in the West from ancient [00:27:00] Greece up through the 19th century. The idea was that illness came from an imbalance in the body's fluids, what they called the four humors, which were blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile.

Jordan Harbinger: Gross.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. And people believed these four bodily fluids controlled all health and temperament. They also believed the moon affected fluids like tides. So things like wound healing, bleeding, and even surgery were thought to depend on the lunar phase.

Jordan Harbinger: I guess that's somewhat reasonable if you thought tides worked that way on human bodies.

So this is all very pre-science vibes.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, very, very much so. The specific belief was that lunar phases, you know, affected bleeding, healing, and surgical outcomes, but that belief hasn't just been tested once. It's been tested repeatedly across decades with these large data sets. Meta analysis, studies of many studies have completely disproven it, but the belief still lingers somehow.

You know, some surgeons still [00:28:00] schedule around the moon. Some patients still request surgery be scheduled around lunar phases. It's crazy.

Jordan Harbinger: Jeez. If there were an effect, these massive datasets would capture it. Yes. But they don't at all. So maybe people are, uh, maybe they're a little moonstroke. Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, well, the connection between behavior and the moon is ancient.

Jordan Harbinger: So a lot of these myths, they stick because people have been repeating them forever like any good folktale, right? And I even know doctors that'll tell me a folktale and I'm like, "Is that true?" And they're like, "Oh, uh, you know, it's like something you heard from..." Remember you heard some crap from your parents when you were a kid and then when you're 40, you're like, "I should Google this.

Yeah. And it's just total bullshit. You're like, "Wait a minute. That's not true."

Jessica Wynn: I mean, it's a thing. Really strong oral tradition holds and beliefs around the moon go further back than you realize. Even the language gives it away. The word lunatic comes from Latin. Luna means moon. Tick is Latin for touched.

So originally, it literally meant moon touched.

Jordan Harbinger: So the idea that the moon [00:29:00] messes with your mind is baked right into our vocabulary from the jump.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, totally. Ancient cultures believe the moon caused madness, crime, emotional instability. Women were often central to that story, you know, women out at night, women's cycles, intuition, healing.

Suddenly, every woman became, you know, a witch by the moonlight.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh. Well, there are women today wrapped up with the moon and cycles and they call themselves witches, I suppose, right? That's a thing.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, yeah. That's definitely a thing, but now it's framed as, you know, empowerment or spirituality instead of suspicion.

And the claims about spells and the moon's powers today from these modern witchy women are just as misguided as the ones that say, you know, the full moon means more crime.

Jordan Harbinger: But police officers make full moon claims too. If there's more moonlight, is there more violence? I mean, it kind of seems plausible not because of metaphysical reasons, but people are out later, there's more light, so they get up to no good or they drink more.

I don't [00:30:00] know. Cool. I'm not sure.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, it is a good theory until you look at the actual crime data. So homicides, assaults, domestic violence, robberies, decades of records across lots of cities show no consistent relationship with lunar phases. One study looked at four years of crime data just in Ohio. No effect.

And a 2009 meta analysis reviewed multiple studies and found, again, nothing. I know firefighters say it, 911 dispatchers say it, eMTs say it. So the belief reinforces itself across professions, but there's just no pattern.

Jordan Harbinger: So does anything predict busy ER nights or more police activity?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, more boring things, you know, nothing lunar.

Hospital admissions and ER visits show weekly patterns. Monday morning heart attacks are more common.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh,

Jessica Wynn: man. It's thought to be returning to work stress.

Jordan Harbinger: Depressing. Okay.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it's horrible. Traffic [00:31:00] accidents increase on specific days and times, you can probably imagine.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, Friday night, Saturday night when people are dumb and drinking.

Jessica Wynn: Right, exactly. After the bar closes.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: And these patterns are predictable and consistent. There's a clear, you know, weekend effect where more recreational and alcohol related incidents happen.

Jordan Harbinger: That's predictable.

Jessica Wynn: It's all predictable completely. Hospitals, police, and emergency services all know when chaos is coming.

So they prepare for things like holidays, major events, even paydays. You know, New Year's Eve, 4th of July, Super Bowl Sunday. These move the numbers, not lunar phases. But a chaotic ER shift, it's explained by day of the week, time of day, local events, weather, holidays, staffing levels matter. But then someone says, "Hey, it's a full moon."

That becomes the explanation. So we ignore the mundane factors and grab onto the cosmic one. You know, there's a lunacy myth in psychiatry, [00:32:00] that's been thoroughly debunked. Modern studies should show no increase in psychiatric admissions, suicide rates, or self-harm incidents during full moons. Crisis hotline calls don't spike either.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh.

Jessica Wynn: But you hear people say that.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you do. I swear I've heard that some places used to staff up for the full moon or whatever, right? Is that-

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. That's 100% true.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: Despite no evidence. And then we get a scheduling effect. So when hospitals staff up for full moons, more staff means more observations, more documented incidents.

See, we were right to staff up.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. Okay. So, but in this case, they've created the pattern they were looking for.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, exactly. It's not science, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So the distribution is random for all the things people claim happen more frequently under a full moon.

Jordan Harbinger: So this is the part that I still struggle with.

These are trained professionals, they work with people, they work with data. Why doesn't the evidence land?

Jessica Wynn: It's a [00:33:00] great question. I know. Well, I don't think it's an intelligence problem. It's like a human brain problem. Yeah. It's these systemic routines and these learned procedures and the stories.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, good.

That's worse. But I guess we see it all the time on the show, right, especially on Skeptical Sunday, because a, a ton of these topics come down to, "Hey, cognitive bias actually exists."

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, sure. And it's because they work nights, so they see the moon often.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: If you work nights, you're missing daylight, and this affects you way more than the moon phase.

Plus, their jobs are stressful, can be unpredictable and emotionally intense, and humans hate that kind of randomness. So anecdotes are shared and reinforced among colleagues. You know, remember that crazy full moon last month? Because the calm nights don't become stories.

Jordan Harbinger: I know what I've seen with my own lying eyes always beat statistics every time.

Jessica Wynn: Right. It's subconscious confirmation bias, right? You don't realize you're [00:34:00] doing it. It makes you notice and remember information that confirms existing beliefs and ignore or forget information that contradicts them. So even when confronted with the data, personal experience feels more real, you know?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Okay. So this is the part where I have to tell a personal example that makes me look like a bit of an idiot. But when I was younger, my mom, who's a very reasonable person, my whole family, we lived on the street and there was like a main road that turned onto a side street, like most people. And there's a streetlight in that little turn, right?

Because it's a turn, you want to l- the streetlight there. So we would turn and come home and a lot of the time that light would turn off as we turned under it. And it was like, "Whoa, that's weird." It happened so often over the period of, I don't know, 15 or 20 years or however long I, I lived in that area and my mom would be like, "Oh, that's a thing that happens to me all the time."

And then when her father passed away, she's like, "Oh, it's my father saying hello." I mean, she was, you know, sort of tongue in cheek with that part, but she was like, "Look, that light turns off. It's like a [00:35:00] special thing that happens for me. " And I, then as I, when, when I started driving and I went to college and stuff like that and I started coming home late, I also would notice that that light would turn off for me and I would be like, "Mom, the, I'd have the light thing too."

And she'd be like, "Oh, it runs in the family or whatever." And so this is all sort of pre-internet. Later, when the internet became more of a thing and there were news groups and science discussions and stuff, I remember being like, "Okay, what's the real reason for this? " So I posted about it and that's when somebody basically had to explain what confirmation bias is and they're like, "You don't notice the thousand times that that light didn't turn off when you drove under it.

You only notice the time that it did." Even if it's one in 10 times, you're like, "That light, there it goes." Turns off when I drive under it. You just don't notice when a light that's in an area with other lights doesn't turn off. Why would you notice that? And then another guy on the same board, that's like a news group or whatever.

Another guy chimes in and is like, "Hey, this is my time to shine." So here's the thing, I build these and inside the light there's [00:36:00] something called, I think it's called a solenoid or something and it's some electronic component. And the problem is older ones that are like the ones in streetlights that are on all the time, they get hot.

And what they are programmed to do when they get hot is turn off so that they don't melt. And it's like, oh, okay. So the streetlight turning off is totally random. It has to do with how hot the solenoid or whatever inside gets. That plus confirmation bias makes you think you have a mystical power to turn off lights when you drive onto them.

Jessica Wynn: How bummed were you got the stacks

Jordan Harbinger: though? I was pretty happy because I don't like the idea of like supernatural stuff. There's always an explanation for things, but that was sort of my entree into being like, every time somebody thinks they have some sort of superpower or something is too crazy of a coincidence, it's probably something like this.

And it is, actually.

Jessica Wynn: And it is. It's why showing people data often doesn't work too because they've just programmed their mind to think that's why that light is going off.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: And the data's forgettable. [00:37:00] Experiences are memorable. So people often double down when confronted with contradicting evidence.

The moon is basically the perfect trigger for our pattern seeking brain. You know, it's regular, it's visible, and it's culturally loaded.

Jordan Harbinger: And pattern seeking is what we're all about. We can't help it as a species.

Jessica Wynn: Pretend not. You know, humans evolve to detect patterns. It's a survival mechanism because it's better to see patterns that aren't there than miss real danger.

You know, we're biased, we're finding connections, and the moon shows up like a giant spotlight and our minds go, "Something's happening."

Jordan Harbinger: And we're only really watching the moon half the time, right, at night. I don't see what's going on there during the day.

Jessica Wynn: That's the spotlight effect. So full moons are bright, beautiful, and noticeable.

New moons are invisible. So unless you live somewhere with no light pollution, you're not consciously tracking new moons.

Jordan Harbinger: Which is increasingly rare, as we discussed in episode 1237, right? You got very few places have no light [00:38:00] pollution. So yeah, I don't know. I'm not tracking the moon at all. I just, if I needed it, I would look at some website that does that, I guess.

Right.

Jessica Wynn: You put on that planet's app.

Jordan Harbinger: There you go.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. So when a chaotic night happens during a new moon, you don't connect it to the lunar cycle. You blame literally anything else. But when something dramatic happens during a full moon, it feels connected. And you can see this when people try to match big events to lunar phases.

You know, for example, less than 50% of the moon was illuminated on nine eleven, so that didn't get blamed, right? Okay. Meanwhile, November 28th, 2012 is known for being the most peaceful day ever recorded in New York City. There just was no murders, there were no shootings, no stabbings.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh.

Jessica Wynn: And it was a full moon, but people don't want to talk about that because it goes against their-

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Jessica Wynn: it's the craziest on the full moon.

Jordan Harbinger: I have to say, how crazy is that, that there's one day over a decade ago where it's like, "Hey, nobody got [00:39:00] murdered, shot, or stabbed in the city." And it's not like, oh, there was no crime. I mean, there was still crime. It's just that nobody died or got shot or got stabbed.

There were no murders or attempted murders, basically. On one day, 13 years ago, I mean, that's just to me like- We

Jessica Wynn: need to celebrate it.

Jordan Harbinger: Yikes. So catastrophe doesn't line up with the phase of the moon.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, not at all. There's just no correlation to catastrophe and the moon's appearance.

Jordan Harbinger: I guess this is massive observational bias because you're only testing your theory once a month during full moons.

Jessica Wynn: Right. And this creates what psychologists call illusion correlation, seeing a relationship where none exists. So the relationships that might exist aren't as exciting as, "Well, traffic sucks, must be a full moon, or he's a werewolf," or whatever. You know, once again, our brains are pattern seeking machines.

Jordan Harbinger: And we'll connect dots that aren't even there in order to create those patterns. So illusory correlation is the technical term for our moon problem.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, it's, the term was coined by psychologists, Chapman and Chapman [00:40:00] in 1967. It's all extensively studied from full moon to lunar eclipse.

Jordan Harbinger: Do lunar eclipses have special effects?

People get pretty excited about these.

Jessica Wynn: Oh, I mean, they're cool to look at for sure. So, you know, a lunar eclipse is when earth blocks sunlight from reaching the moon. They happen about twice a year and they're visible from large portions of earth. They're visually dramatic and it's like entertainment for humans, you know, but it's not physiological, but they're historically significant.

Eclipses were terrifying to ancient cultures. They thought the sun and/or moon was disappearing and that was a really bad omen and this fear persists in modern eclipse beliefs. You know, even though we understand the mechanics now, some believe lunar eclipses have even stronger effects than regular full moons.

There's claims that are made about emotional intensity, spiritual significance, transformation. Some people claim health effects or behavioral changes, even [00:41:00] impacts on pregnancy.

Jordan Harbinger: But the reality of a lunar eclipse is just, uh, what? Nothing?

Jessica Wynn: It's just earth's shadow falling on the moon. The moon doesn't gain or lose power.

It just receives less reflected sunlight temporarily. So there's no change in energy, there's no mechanism for behavioral change.

Jordan Harbinger: Still beautiful though. I'll give it that.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, incredibly. It's just not biologically relevant. So rare coincides with rare. If something unusual happens during an unusual eclipse, we connect them.

Well, of course I felt weird. There was a blood moon or, you know, whatever.

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Jessica Wynn: You know, this rarity just, it makes it more memorable, thereby strengthening confirmation bias. And so eclipses are beautiful astronomical events. They demonstrate orbital mechanics and give us perspective on our place in the universe, but they don't affect human behavior any more than regular full moons, which is to say not at all.

So enjoy them for what they are, but [00:42:00] don't add mystical effects that just aren't there. This is all just another belief inherited from ancient medicine.

Jordan Harbinger: Got it.

Jessica Wynn: So the moon isn't causing chaos. Our brains are, which is arguably more impressive and a little more unsettling.

Jordan Harbinger: What's up with the blood moon?

What is that? Because that sounds ominous. I mean, that, what's that all about?

Jessica Wynn: The blood moon is just a specific time of year when the eclipse happens and it makes it turn like a blood red. There has to be three bodies aligned during the full moon when the eclipse happens, so it's really specific things lined up in space.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's something straight out of a horror movie though, right? Like- Right. The first blood moon, and then everyone's racing to, I don't know, make sure that they can't complete the ritual. Turns out the moon is not pulling on your blood, your brain, or your vibes, which means you don't get to blame celestial objects for your terrible personality anymore.

While we sit with that uncomfortable truth, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. [00:43:00] This episode is sponsored in part by Wayfair. Up until recently, our backyard, not dialed in. We had our smoker sitting on the ground, which is probably really dangerous, actually, because of rain, but no table, no setup, just kind of making it work.

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Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com/deals. Now, for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. All right, so do we have any relationship with the moon? What does it mess with?

Tides and what?

Jessica Wynn: Well, it's stuff we ignore. I mean, there is some irony here because we obsess over the moon's mystical influence. Meanwhile, we ignore or downplay factors that actually are affected, like barometric pressure. That's measurable, it's documented, it's significant, but it sounds less romantic, so it doesn't capture our imagination the same way.

Jordan Harbinger: How is that related to the moon?

Jessica Wynn: Well, the moon's [00:46:00] gravity, it doesn't just cause bulges in the oceans. It has the same effect on the atmosphere. So it can slightly change barometric pressure. And air pressure changes have documented effects on human physiology. So barometric pressure is an underrated influence on us.

Many people are sensitive to pressure changes, so drops in barometric pressure can trigger headaches and migraines. Arthritis sufferers often report increased pain before storms, th- then that's when the pressure drops. Or if you've ever broken a bone, you might have felt it. So those forces are thousands of times stronger than any lunar effect.

Yep, we don't often track barometric phases.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I've never heard anyone discuss it that way.

Jessica Wynn: You know, maybe we should though, because some studies suggest low pressure systems are linked to fatigue and depression in some people. Pressure changes affect our sinus pressure, fluid balance, oxygen levels, even how our hair grows.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh. [00:47:00] So things we actually experience in our bodies, wow.

Jessica Wynn: Right. And another place the moon's effect on us gets nuanced is with our sleep. So moonlight is bright enough to mess with melatonin. Even when it's a fraction of the sun's light, those photons hit your retina, they suppress melatonin and they affect your sleep.

Jordan Harbinger: So it's not gravity or energy or vibes. That's an argument for those blue blockers. Everyone's like, "Oh, that doesn't do anything." And I'm like, "I don't know, man. When I put sunglasses or blow blockers on, I freaking get so tired so fast, but if I'm looking at a bright screen or my phone, I'll stay awake till 2:00 in the morning.

No problem."

Jessica Wynn: Right. And it's all about the light.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: You know, it's the same thing that we mentioned affects the wildlife as well.

Jordan Harbinger: So the moon isn't controlling your sleep. Your curtains are controlling your sleep.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. Absolutely how dark your room is and how much artificial light you're surrounded by too.

You know, street lights, phones, screens. The moon just happens to be a natural light source, but it can affect sleep if it's coming through your window. This is not mystical. It's just light [00:48:00] and blackout curtains solve the problem. You don't need to cleanse your crystals, you need better window treatments.

Jordan Harbinger: So no mysticism, it's just light in your eyes. It's not lunar magic.

Jessica Wynn: And it's about coincidences. For a long time, I believed if a woman went off the grid, her menstrual cycle would link to the phases of the moon. But then you start to think about it and the average menstrual cycle is about 28 days. The lunar cycle is about 29 and a half.

Jordan Harbinger: That feels meaningful.

Jessica Wynn: It does. The numbers feel close. There's intuitive appeal and ancient cultures notice the similarity and assumed a connection, but there's no evidence moonlight ever influenced ovulation. And large studies tracking real cycles show no synchronization. So if cycles were moonlinked, periods would occur at the same lunar phase.

They don't. A large study was done in the 80s. There's no correlation between menstrual [00:49:00] onset and lunar phase. In 2013, a study with detailed tracking of women's cycles was done, no relationship. A woman's cycle length, which can be anywhere between 21 to 35 days, makes consistent lunar sync impossible.

Jordan Harbinger: I'm still stuck on the light blockers thing.

People wrote in, they were like, "These are BS, these are BS." The eye strain stuff, the claims that they make on a lot of the websites for it, those are not necessarily true, but if light suppresses melatonin, which it does, you can find science that shows that light from screens also does that. And usually, I just feel the need to defend this because I recommended them to the whole show.

Jessica Wynn: I feel like if people tried them, there's no contest.

Jordan Harbinger: The primary use case for me is at night when I'm on my phone looking at something or if I'm working late and I, you know, I don't want to be, or I'm at an event and it's like, "Yeah, we're going to have a bar night and everyone's going to be out till 10:30 or 11:00."

And I'm like, "I don't want to be full on blasted with that. I'm [00:50:00] going to show up in blue blockers and kind of hang out for a bit or a late dinner. I'll hang out for a bit and then I'll go to bed and I fall asleep, like, right away because it doesn't take me all that time to have my eyes adjust." And it's just, I don't know.

Look, there's scientific backing for that. I found it specifically because I didn't want to recommend something that was bunk. Anyway-

Jessica Wynn: And on the opposite end too, there's studies that say if you wear sunglasses too much, it's sort of the opposite thing because you're not getting natural light into your eyes.

Jordan Harbinger: Ah.

Jessica Wynn: There's all kinds of thoughts on that too. That's interesting. Like don't always wear sunglasses.

Jordan Harbinger: No, just at night when I, before I'm trying to do the wind down, go to sleep. All right. Anyway, so the similarity in cycle length that you just mentioned, that, man, that makes it feel true, the whole women's cycle moon cycle thing.

Jessica Wynn: I know, but, and some women report feeling more connected to the moon, which is valid. Sounds so sciencey. It says a personal experience. Right, but it's not a biological mechanism. If your period happens during a full moon once or twice, you [00:51:00] remember it. It's just more confirmation bias.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So what about pets?

There's something there, right? People swear their dogs and cats get weird about it. What's going on there?

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, that's a big one, but veterinary ERs show the same pattern as human ones, no lunar effect. We see the same variables affecting animal care professionals as human healthcare workers though.

Jordan Harbinger: Dogs don't lose their mind either then?

Jessica Wynn: No. If an animal is outside at night, brighter nights can change their activity. More light equals more movement, but again, that's light, not the lunar phase itself.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

Jessica Wynn: There's no documented evidence that dogs, cats, or other domestic pets act differently during full moons. There's internet forums full of anecdotes, but plural of anecdote isn't data.

So-

Jordan Harbinger: True. ...

Jessica Wynn: if you're in a windowless room, you're not going to see those same changes.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. No werewolves transforming under the moon.

Jessica Wynn: Of course not. But the origins of werewolves come from [00:52:00] ancient European folklore and it taps into a deep human fear of losing control, becoming bestial, something dangerous.

The full moon makes symbolic sense as a trigger. You know, it's a bright night, things that are usually hidden become visible, the moon itself appears to transform, so it feels logical that it might transform other things, but what started as this metaphor eventually became literal in folklore.

Jordan Harbinger: Don't tell me people still believe in werewolves though.

This is like the most comical-

Jessica Wynn: I looked. Yeah. I looked. I did not come across anyone, but- Okay. ... you know, who knows. But when people say, "Oh, you get crazy during full moons," it's the same underlying belief. So something transforms when the moon is full. The mythology didn't disappear. We've just replaced werewolves with, I'm just more emotional or energetic or weird or whatever during full moons.

Jordan Harbinger: So what about farm animals, livestock? There's a lot of old farmer wisdom about livestock behavior during full moons.

Jessica Wynn: [00:53:00] Yeah. And there's been scientific studies on the moon and livestock. There are, again, no documented effects on cattle, horses, sheep, chickens, egg production, breeding success, you know, feeding behavior, all of it.

None show lunar patterns when properly studied. And lunar phase independent of visibility does not affect animal behavior. So for example, a full moon on a cloudy night versus a clear night, the light matters, not the phase itself.

Jordan Harbinger: So if we're talking a little bit of sunlight, does the change of moonlight effect plants?

Should we be lunar gardening? Y- you, you remember the old farmer's almanac? It's got all these strong feelings about planting by the moon.

Jessica Wynn: Right. I mean, it's a very old tradition that goes back thousands of years across multiple cultures to plant above ground crops during waxing moons, root crops storing waning moons.

The idea being that the moon gravity will move water and [00:54:00] soil like tides. Evidence of this is really mixed, but I found when reputable researchers control for temperature, moisture and soil conditions, lunar effects totally disappear.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So it's the weather, not the moon, surprise, surprise.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah, right, right.

Who knew? Controlled studies comparing plants grown by lunar calendar versus random planting show no difference in germination rates, growth rates, or even yields.

Jordan Harbinger: So why does the tradition persist at all? By the way, do they still put out the farmer's almanac, do we know?

Jessica Wynn: They just announced the 2026 edition will be its last.

Jordan Harbinger: Mm.

Jessica Wynn: I know, kind of sad.

Jordan Harbinger: Slow demand for-

Jessica Wynn: For nonsense.

Jordan Harbinger: Woo-woo farming technology.

Jessica Wynn: But it's just all based on tradition, you know? Grandpa did it this way and had good harvests, and planting times and almanacs often coincide with good weather patterns for specific regions. It's just more confirmation bias.

But when lunar planting, you know, quote, unquote, [00:55:00] works, it's remembered. Failures are attributed to other factors, so many farmers continue traditions even while understanding they're not mechanistic. So the harm is minimal though. If it encourages people to garden, it's not causing real problems. There's a whole biodynamic farming movement which takes lunar agriculture even further with additional mystical elements.

It has no scientific support, but it's really popular among some organic farmers. I mean, that said, if lunar gardening's getting people outside, touching plants, I mean, I think it's mostly harmless as long as we don't pretend it's physics or biology. It's just interesting to see how pre-scientific traditions get repackaged as alternative wisdom.

Jordan Harbinger: Alternative wisdom like crystal charging and moonlight and the moon water trends I see all over social media that ... Social media is deep into this.

Jessica Wynn: Oh, so deep. Lunar haircutting is a big one these days. Oh my God. Have you [00:56:00] seen this?

Jordan Harbinger: No, obviously not.

Jessica Wynn: The hashtag has over like a billion views.

Jordan Harbinger: God.

Jessica Wynn: So the idea is that you cut your hair during a new moon for growth, a full moon for strength, and a waning moon to slow growth.

So the thing is, our hair growth is controlled by genetics, you know, our hormones, our diet, the moon has zero effect, but some salons now charge more for a nighttime full moon cut.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. You know I've got to ask, what if I want the hair on my head to grow more, but I want the hair elsewhere to stay short?

Do I wax during a waning moon, but I go to my barber during a new moon? What's going on here?

Jessica Wynn: Oh, Jordan, I mean, your schedule's pretty complicated already, but-

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: Sure. Throw moon waxes on your calendar.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. No, I need to see cocoa on Tuesday. You don't understand. It's important.

Jessica Wynn: They're charging you a thousand dollars.[00:57:00]

Jordan Harbinger: I'm just going to end up getting banned from European Wax Center. That's what's going to happen. So sir, we've asked you not to come in when you don't have an appointment. You don't get it. It's a waxing ibus. I need this shit ripped out now. Oh, man. All right. I feel, I, you know, I just don't feel bad for whoever's paying for this stuff.

So to be clear, all the crystal moon charging stuff is clearly not ... I think we've done crystals. I mean, it's nonsense, yeah.

Jessica Wynn: Yeah. I mean, as far as crystals go, it's all nonsense, of course. Crystals don't absorb lunar energy or get cleansed by moonlight. It's just not how it works. No mechanism exists for the moon to charge objects with energy, but if that kind of ritual is good for you, spiritually, fine.

Just don't call it science. Same with charging water under the full moon, which has become a thing. Like social media has amplified these practices enormously.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah. Instagram, TikTok, full of [00:58:00] moonwater tutorials.

Jessica Wynn: I mean, moonwater That's literally just water that sat outside.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. So most water,

Jessica Wynn: really.

Most water. I've seen the claims that full moonwater has special properties or healing energy. It doesn't.

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Jessica Wynn: It doesn't gain special molecular structure or properties. In fact, in science, moonwater is a real term, but it refers to ice or molecules on the moon that provide evidence water once existed there.

Jordan Harbinger: Some people say a moonwater event is a meaningful ritual and that it helps them feel centered. What do you think about that?

Jessica Wynn: That's valid if that's how that makes you feel.

Jordan Harbinger: Uh-huh.

Jessica Wynn: But don't confuse that with a scientific physical claim. Yeah. You know, if anyone says moonwater cures illness, run. That's misinformation.

Jordan Harbinger: Sure.

Jessica Wynn: When mystical explanations replace physical understanding, that creates scientific illiteracy, and that can be expensive. People sell moon charged products at premium prices.

Jordan Harbinger: People are buying [00:59:00] precharged by the moon products. That's hilarious.

Jessica Wynn: It's a whole category on Etsy.

Jordan Harbinger: My God.

Jessica Wynn: Water, crystals, oils, sprays, all infused with lunar energy during specific moon phases for various rituals.

There's one product that has a warning to avoid charging certain crystals in moonlight.

Jordan Harbinger: I would love to know what they think is going to happen if you do. Gosh, sounds legit. Nothing speaks cosmic truth like an Etsy listing. Am I right?

Australian Woman: What do you do?

Australian Man: Uh, I'm a, uh, astrophysicist.

Australian Woman: Okay. I'm a Gemini.

Jordan Harbinger: Amazing.

That's from, I, like, The Bachelor Australia or something. I hope it's staged and that she has a great sense of humor, but, you know-

Jessica Wynn: Feel like that was genuine.

Jordan Harbinger: She probably sells moon charged crystals on Etsy for a living, yeah.

Jessica Wynn: Definitely. I mean, you can have meaningful rituals without making false scientific claims, pre-packaged spiritual [01:00:00] practice This is, they appeal to people seeking meaning, and that's a lot of people.

So moon beliefs have evolved, but they haven't disappeared. You know, we've gone from the moon causes lunacy, to the moon charges my crystals. It's a different language, but it's the same fundamental misunderstanding of lunar influence. It just shows how pseudoscience adapts to cultural trends. The core error is still attributing properties to the moon that it doesn't have.

Jordan Harbinger: Debunking all this, it makes me worry that it's taking away some of the magic. And people love the idea of being connected to the cosmos. I mean, even before you're like, oh, we met surveyed women and they reported feeling connected to the moon. Like, okay, fine.

Jessica Wynn: We are connected to the cosmos. Just we take it to a strange place, you know?

Take it

Jordan Harbinger: too far. Yeah.

Jessica Wynn: But you can keep wondering without inventing fake mechanisms. The complex interplay of weather, light, biology, and social factors is fascinating. So understanding actual [01:01:00] causes is more empowering than blaming the moon. You can still love the moon, just love it for what it is.

Jordan Harbinger: It's just so ingrained in us that the moon is doing a lot more than it actually is.

Jessica Wynn: I know. Yeah, and it just all stems from ancient peoples. They were observant and intelligent, but they just lacked the tools to test properly. So lunar affects were reasonable hypothesis. What's less reasonable is maintaining these beliefs in the age of large scale data analysis.

Jordan Harbinger: But considering it's been doing the quiet work of stabilizing Earth for billions of years, it's still amazing to gaze at the moon and appreciate its beauty.

Jessica Wynn: Absolutely. I love it. I literally had my telescope out the other night. It's a fascinating object. Just thinking about the photons that bounced off the moon's surface and traveled all the way to your eyes is incredible. The tides it creates across our oceans, the way it stabilized earth long enough for life to exist.

I mean, it's been lighting up nights for our entire [01:02:00] history. Ancient cultures tracked it, they navigated by it and scheduled their lives around it. Astronauts walked on it. All of that is real and all of that is enough. You don't need to add magical properties to make it special because the moon does extraordinary things, just not to your personality.

Jordan Harbinger: So the next time someone says, "Must be a full moon," when something weird happens, you can smile, you can nod. And remember, it's not the moon. The moon is just showing up on time every time. The chaos part is on us, which honestly is way more interesting than blaming a rock in space. So the moon, it'll still be up there tonight, silent, predictable, and completely innocent, unlike many of us.

Thanks, Jess. I'm, I'm over the moon after this episode. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much, and thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday, directly to me, jordan@jordanharbinger.com, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals.

I'm @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and [01:03:00] Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her Substacks Between the Lines and Where Shadows Linger. We'll link to those in the show notes as well. This show is created an association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Tadas Sidlauskas, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own, and yeah, I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Of course, we try to get everything as right as we can in these episodes. Not everything is gospel though, even if it is fact checked. So consult a qualified professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and wellbeing.

Be careful, don't charge those crystals in moonlight if they say not to. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.

Jessica Wynn: You probably don't picture drug cartel operations running through rural America, but that's exactly

Jordan Harbinger: why they're so hard to stop. Mariana Van Zeller breaks down how these [01:04:00] networks hide in plain sight using everyday systems in small town blind spots to stay one step ahead.

JHS Trailer: I've been covering the cartel for many years now.

And I sort of wanted to do a story about cartel presence in the US. And once we started researching it, I realized that actually the story should be about all the things that we don't know about cartel presence in the US, including the fact that they're in small town America. So one of our first shoots for that episode was in Georgia.

And we started with a murder investigation of this woman who was tortured and they cut off her fingers and then eventually killed her and she was killed by the cartel. And it was in the middle of nowhere in Georgia. And then we followed the investigation and yeah, realized that they're everywhere and particularly like to operate in small town America.

Less law enforcement, easier to hide the drugs and have their distribution networks. You know what's so interesting about that story is that in order to get access to the cartel in the US, we actually had to go down to Mexico and gain permission and have them [01:05:00] say yes, because a lot of these groups have people that work for them in the US.

Obviously the US is the end goals where they're sending their drugs. And so eventually he said, "Okay, we've got you. " And it was all set up and we were supposed to meet them in Minnesota. We get there and then we waited and waited and waited for days. I'm like, "I never showed up." I want people to see many of these traffickers, again, do, we do not condone what they do.

It's difficult to even empathize, but the majority of the people that I talk to are people just like you and me that don't have the opportunities or the luck that we have. I try to always do my job as a journalist, which is hold people accountable.

Jordan Harbinger: If you want to hear how cartels hide in plain sight, check out episode 1302 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

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The show's hosted by Mike Baker, a veteran of the CIA with decades of firsthand experience, so you're getting smart analysis from somebody who's been inside the system. You get straightforward context to help you understand what's happening and why it matters. Follow The President's Daily Brief wherever you get your podcasts and stay ahead of the curve.