1402: Still Losing Sleep from the Neighborhood Creep? | Feedback Friday

1402: Still Losing Sleep from the Neighborhood Creep? | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my guy living in sin in the city of Berlin, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know if subletting a Turkish woman's apartment alone in Prenzlauer qualifies as living in sin, but yeah, I don't know. Maybe the Overton window has shifted and I didn't know.

Jordan Harbinger: You're a whore for solitude, Gabe.

Just accept it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I guess I've been wearing that scarlet letter for a while. That's right.

Haven't I?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you're right.

Nomad of ill repute. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, mafia enforcers, gold smugglers, tech luminaries, astronauts. This week, we had Dr. Leslie John, author of Revealing the Underrated Power of Oversharing. We talked about the science of self-disclosure, how it brings us closer, when to disclose, when not to disclose, and how to do it tactfully, and of course, some oversharing of my own and hers, for that matter.

A great mix of science and practical in this one. I also sat down with Tom Rath, author of What's the Point? Turning Purpose into Your Daily Superpower.

We talked about how purpose is not a single calling waiting to be found, it's the daily practice of connecting your time, skills, and attention to a concrete human benefit. We talk about passion and happiness, contribution, all that good stuff. Tom is kind of an OG in the space.

He came up with CliftonStrengths, which if you've ever had a real job, unlike myself, for more than a couple years anyway, you've taken one of these strengths things. He's just a real authority in the field. He's been around forever.

Finally, we had a Skeptical Sunday last Sunday on bail reform. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, and traipse through the fields of your most befuddling life conundra. Before we kick off today, a bit of sad news.

After 70 or so editions, we're hitting pause on Wee Bit Wiser. There's no funeral just yet, but it's on semi-permanent hiatus, whatever they say in the TV business. I love putting this thing out.

I know, Gabe, we enjoyed writing this, but it's a big investment in a larger project, and we decided that we don't have the bandwidth to keep doing it every couple of weeks. We might revive it down the road. Also, AI has done serious damage to the ecosystem of newsletters, where a lot of the money that used to sponsor people's newsletters, even just massive ones, they're taking pennies on the dollar, and it's like, okay, I don't need to do this.

So who knows? We might revive it down the road. Maybe we'll continue putting out smaller doses of advice and ideas and other forms, but for now, we will not be doing a regular newsletter, so I just wanted to let you guys know.

Makes me a little sad, because again, I loved Wee Bit Wiser. People could hit reply. There was a lot of feedback that was really good on it, but there's just only so many hours in the day, and we put out so much other content.

We just, we've got to prioritize. I also want to thank each and every one of you who subscribed, read the newsletter, hit reply, shared your responses. We really loved those exchanges, and it was special to hear how our ideas landed with you guys over the past couple of years.

Anyway, don't despair. You'll find a lot of the same ideas here on Feedback Friday and in the interviews, of course. All right, let's dive in.

Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, sorry for the horrifying reminder, but back in 2021, I contacted you about my pedophile psychopath neighbor. That was episode 517.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. So this is the squirrel in mailbox? The squirrel in mailbox.

The squirrel in mailbox story, yes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The very same, where the reference originated, yes.

Jordan Harbinger: I always kind of wondered if we would get an update on this, because it's just such a, that was such a crazy tale.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So for anyone who doesn't remember this letter, or maybe you started listening after this aired, this was a wild story. So our friend here first wrote in because she had become guardian to two teenage girls. I think they were 12 and 14, who had apparently suffered horrific abuse by their father and I think his friend.

But then she had this neighbor and this neighbor slowly started inserting himself into their lives. And he started inviting the girls to like hang out at his house with his daughters. And then soon after, he started wanting to hang out without them alone.

And according to our friend, he undermined her relationship with the girls and basically turned them against her. And the older girl ended up having some kind of breakdown.

Jordan Harbinger: Man. Oh, right. And our friend here had a therapist who was like, he can't be that bad of a guy.

Let him hang out with them. And then later was like, well, it's your fault.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The older girl had a breakdown. Why'd you let her do that? That's how she explained it to us.

Yes. Which is insane to even think about that somebody in that position would have that opinion. But who knows how those conversations went down anyway.

Once DCF banned him from having contact with the girls and our friend got restraining orders against him, he began harassing her, the woman who wrote in directly in a variety of ways. But then the younger girl moved in with him, right?

Jordan Harbinger: Moved in with him.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. At 19 years old. So the story there was she went through a bad breakup and future squirrel guy was like, come, you can live with me.

She was an adult, so she could legally decide to do that. But our friend still reported him for violating the restraining order.

Jordan Harbinger: Jeez.

So witnesses saw him sexually abusing her when she was at the house, right?

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's what our friend says. Yes.

But then a few weeks later, this younger daughter moved back into her parents' house and tragically she took her own life there.

Jordan Harbinger: God, that's right. This is so heartbreaking.

This poor family. It's so horrible.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And then the neighbor continued terrorizing our friend.

Like for example, a few months after her death, she found pictures of both girls when they were younger thrown on the ground outside her back door, pictures that she knew he had.

Jordan Harbinger: And right before the anniversary of the youngest's suicide, she found a decapitated squirrel at the back door, which doesn't happen.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is where squirrel in your mailbox came from.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I don't know how backdoor became mailbox, but that's where it started. It's more vivid, I guess.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Punchier?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You know how we do. Everything becomes a little, a bit, so to speak.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Along the way, she also learned that there were other girls this guy allegedly targeted starting decades ago. And at the time, he was also regularly posting pictures of him and his granddaughter, like in bed together. I think he was shirtless.

Jordan Harbinger: That's creepy AF. I mean, that's, so she was rightfully like, he's going to hurt that little girl. But you know.

But no proof of that. And so she was asking how to protect herself and potentially other girls when she doesn't have enough evidence to stop this guy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. That's where we left off. So she goes on.

Hard to believe, but another five years later, he's continued to stalk and harass me. I am so grateful for the advice you gave me. I never responded to him.

I always walked away as soon as he appeared. He's been unrelenting, but I never did anything to escalate things. I did report him to everyone, including the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, but no one ever investigated.

Then, suddenly, a few months ago, he deleted himself entirely from all social media. No idea why. But here's the good news.

He screwed up his finances so badly that he was facing foreclosure on his house. And now it's up for sale.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, that's great news. I mean, not always, but often, these people bury themselves eventually, and it's pretty sweet when that happens.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Rumors swirl about where he'll land, but it won't be on my block. I can go for walks, do yard work, and not have the daily reminder of seeing his face, his cars, his awful daughter.

Jordan Harbinger: Must be a massive relief.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Your advice got me through these ten years of hell. I still have complex PTSD because of everything he did, still see a therapist, still working to heal and recover. But not being a person who's used to restraining herself during conflict, I am so impressed with myself that I managed to never let him bait me into a confrontation.

One friend suggested that I politely ask him to leave me alone. LOL. Yeah, psychopaths appreciate polite requests.

It did cost me a lot in terms of friendships, but I got better at recognizing the people who are truly there, without judgment. I couldn't have done it without the wisdom you shared and your patience with my extremely vulnerable state when I reached out. So thank you.

In many ways, you saved me.

Jordan Harbinger: That's nice of you to say. But you're the one who had to live next to this guy, so you saved you, and I'm proud of you. 100%.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Although Squirrel Guy might have taken a final shot at me. My car mysteriously moved three feet in my driveway and hit my garage recently. Sigh.

So, like, he just pushed it, but it was in park? I don't know. Put a small dent in your garage door at two and a half miles per hour out of revenge?

Jordan Harbinger: Dude, look, maybe he was hoping for worse, maybe he just wanted to spook her without inviting huge trouble, maybe he used a car to push it, I don't know, Gabe. I do wonder if he was behind the car thing, or maybe, forgive me if this is mildly offensive, I don't mean it this way, but maybe she's so hyper-vigilant after all of this stuff from this guy that she's attributing every minor weird thing to him, which would be completely understandable.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Well, the good news is there was no dead rodent under the floor mat or something. Right.

No headless rat tucked into the vanity mirror or anything like that. That's progress, so she wraps up. But, free at last, free at last, free at last, signed a victorious mama bear, who honestly was pretty scared, but managed to not become ensnared, and is now finally coming up for air, after years of having to beware this creep who would leave a squirrel anywhere.

Well, I'm now thinking about it, maybe it's not anywhere, it's just the back door, but in our minds it could be anywhere. Mailbox. P.O. box. Car. Car. Car.

Well, look, this is incredible news. I'm so happy for you, my friend, wow.

Jordan Harbinger: This was definitely one of the more disturbing stories we've taken on the show, for many reasons, and obviously something about the dead squirrel lodged itself in my brain, so every so often I'd be like, huh, wonder what squirrel guy, what's going on with that guy? Hope our friend is okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: What's going on with that guy?

Jordan Harbinger: So, once again, I'm deeply sorry you endured so much with this guy, I'm so sorry about what happened with the girl you adopted, slash became guardian to, it's just heartbreaking what happened with her. And I'm sorry for all the peace and sanity this guy took away from you over the years. You live next to a real-life monster.

They make Netflix series about these people for a reason, because it's frickin' terrifying and gripping and everyone's rooting for the innocent woman next door who's finding dead animals on the doorstep. You know, this isn't the same situation, Gabe, but have you ever seen My Terrible Ex? I can't remember exactly what it's called, but it's something about exes on Netflix and it's just, it's a series and each one is about a different ex.

These are the worst people and it's so scary how up to the line someone can get with stalking before the police are like, oh yeah, this is a problem. It's really, really scary. Anyway, recapping all this now, it's so insane.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I can't believe all of this happened to one person for 10 years. That's a long time to live next to someone like this.

Jordan Harbinger: Really next level. It's just a living nightmare and I'm so overjoyed that this chapter is finally over. My friend's so relieved.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Bro, if we feel this way, I can only imagine how you, she feels. It must be wild.

Jordan Harbinger: It must be like getting your life back. You can breathe again. You can sleep the proverbial weight off the shoulders.

You can focus. You don't have the constant exhaustion, heightened arousal from constantly scanning your surroundings. It's got to feel great.

So well done for getting through this chapter. And I can only imagine what she's left with now, but yeah, at least this part is over.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So I know she's not asking for advice. She just wanted to share the update, which we are very happy to share and celebrate. But I do wonder if there's anything we can offer her as she starts this new chapter.

Jordan Harbinger: A SimpliSafe package so she can see if anyone's pushing her Ford Focus into the garage door with a lifted F-150. You know the guy drives a lifted something like this. He's just one of those guys.

100%. Currently 60% off right now at simplisafe.com slash Jordan. Not the truck.

The alarm.

Gabriel Mizrahi: She must have a camera set up by now, right? I feel like we, didn't we talk about that in our first response to her?

I think that's where the SimpliSafe plug began actually. That's the thing.

Jordan Harbinger: I hope she's checking them and it seems like, hey, who pushed my car into the garage? Easily answered, but maybe not. I will say, this reminds me that this is such a dumb tangent, but I'm doing it.

A long time ago, I had ordered a bidet toilet seat when I was in China because I was like, oh my God, these things are game changing. So I ordered one from Amazon and I was like, it'll be there when I get home or my neighbor will take it in or whatever. And so it wasn't there when I got home and we had a Ring doorbell.

We were one of the first customers, I guess, of Ring to get these, like Jen saw an ad for it and bought it, which is not unusual for us. And she grabs the thing. And so we look at the footage and we're like, oh, here's a guy stealing our toilet seat.

And so we reported it because it was, you know, an expensive item that got stolen. And we had the guy's face on camera and the police came. And some journalist writes this police blotter, which is like unusual police stories or exciting police stories.

Well, since it was a toilet seat, they called the head of the article, it's called Game of Thrones. This is what they wrote. This is like 2015 or so.

And this gets, of course, picked up, like shared a little bit virally online. It gets picked up by Fox News, the national news desk at Fox.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And you guys were like quoted in the article and stuff.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. And they sent a reporter over to the house to interview me about, it must've been a slow news day.

Gabriel Mizrahi: About your toilet seat stolen.

Jordan Harbinger: About the stolen toilet seat. And so I, of course, being me, I was like, yeah, I hope they put a lid on this one and flush out the thief. And I had all these toilet puns.

She's like, how long have you been working on that?

Gabriel Mizrahi: By the way, that was pre AI. That was all my boy off the dome.

Jordan Harbinger: Correct.

Off the dome. That was real writing.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I love this.

Jordan Harbinger: I misspoke. So that was Fox local news.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

Jordan Harbinger: Which gets then, since I was such an idiot, I'd like to take credit for this. Since I was such a dipshit in the interview, they put it on the national news roundup, like the evening news.

But also the reporter was like, how did you get video footage of the guy stealing it? I'm like, I have this Ring doorbell. She's like, wow, how does that work?

So I demonstrated that makes national news Ring emails us and it's like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You just got us national news coverage for package theft, which is one of the reasons we made this thing. We love you.

You have a lifetime Ring Pro or whatever it was subscription. You're never paying again for this service.

Gabriel Mizrahi: They gave you lifetime service.

Jordan Harbinger: Lifetime.

Remember this wasn't owned by Amazon at the time. It was like a startup that was maybe even local and it was just like engineers making a doorbell that you could see.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And you just gave them free product placement in the best way.

Jordan Harbinger: Massive placement. So when Amazon bought them, they're like, we're canceling this. And I was like, no, I have a contract.

It's written right here. I have free lifetime. So now in the Ring app, we still use Ring cameras and stuff all over the place.

Every month it pops up that our membership is going to run out in 28 days and it counts down the days. And then when it gets to zero, it just starts over again. And you know, there's someone at Amazon who's like, ah, you bastard.

Right? Because I've got Jeff Bezos. I would imagine Jeff Bezos is just sitting there like this guy, this guy has a free Ring service.

Yeah. They keep being like, Hey, we're going to take away your free Ring service. Do you want to keep Pro?

And I was like, read this email and cry all the way home.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Someone pops into his office like Jeff, the Blue Origin ship. We're having massive problems.

No, I've got to reset the clock, set the clock on this Jordan Harbinger guy.

Jordan Harbinger: Someone's job is just to sit there and be like, try to delete my account and then absolutely fail at it. That's incredible.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I didn't know about this part. So, because I remember you telling this story years ago, but I don't think I knew about the Ring camera stuff. Wait, did whatever, first of all, did they catch the guy?

Jordan Harbinger: No, of course.

Because cops are like, this is one reason I know AI is like facial recognition is like a whole thing, like a whole Pandora's box, but they're just never going to find this guy. Even if they arrested him for something else, they're not going to go, we should check it and see if he's any of the guys in these videos. They're just never going to look at that.

Right? So there's no way they're going to be able to run evidence through facial recognition and be like, Oh, we caught a guy stealing packages, red handed. Oh look, here's a hundred thousand videos where he's done this for the last 15 years as a professional.

And we've got him on all of them. He's going to prison for 20 years. Right?

Yeah. But now they'd have to look at each one and they're just like, let's just get him. We got him with five packages.

He's going to go to prison for, you know, eight months. That's good enough.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So you never got your toilet seat back.

Jordan Harbinger: Luckily I bought it with my Amex card and they just paid for it. Purchase protection. And Amazon also was like, Oh, stolen package refunded.

So like basically, no, it didn't cost me anything. Funnily enough, that's what the segment was about was Amex purchase protection. Also, they were like, Oh, you bought it with a credit there.

Like one pro tip for the holiday package theft season is use your credit card that has protection on it because then you might not be responsible. So that was one of the tips.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Damn.

Did Amex reach out?

Jordan Harbinger: They did not. They don't care.

Probably.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a bummer. Yeah. They don't need it as much.

But Ring was hungry for this back in the day. That's amazing. Yeah.

It'd be so funny if the guy who stole the package was like the Ring CEO and he's just like stealing packages from everybody else who has this product.

Jordan Harbinger: So they catch the guy and he's like, I can't tell you who hired me, but it was, it was a gig.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You do what you've got to do.

Jordan Harbinger: That guy must've been pretty. What did he do? Open it and go, what?

And then throw it away. Or is he like, this is the best thing I've ever stolen. Beep, beep.

Ah. Right. Like, is he, is he a convert to the bidet tribe?

Probably.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Maybe. Probably getting product placement for Tushy or something.

That's right. Now we should probably get back to the subject. To the nightmare at hand.

Anyway, she must've set up cameras, right? Like check the cameras.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: But if you don't have cameras, get cameras anyways. Everybody should have at least a camera aimed towards the front of their house. I mean, there's got to be a basic tier of each of these things.

Anyway, I take your point, Gabe. The constant nightmare is over. The PTSD part is not.

The complex PTSD, apparently. Which that means that trauma occurred from multiple sources. Multiple events stacked up on top of one another.

Is that what that means?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. That's my understanding. I don't know a ton about it.

I think CPTSD develops from like prolonged, repeated trauma that's also difficult to escape often months or years of it.

Jordan Harbinger: So like childhood abuse, long-term domestic violence, captivity, stuff like that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Living next to a squirrel wielding psycho, exactly. Or who knows, maybe she went through some stuff before this guy, before even the girls she adopted. I believe complex PTSD can also have unique symptoms, right?

It's like, it's all the stuff you would expect from garden variety PTSD plus difficulty regulating emotions, sometimes persistent shame or feelings of worthlessness, trouble trusting or maintaining relationships. These can all be part of it.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Complex PTSD can change how you relate to other people. That's what I've read.

I mean, it's a tough nut.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So obviously, I hope therapy has been helpful to you and I hope you're making progress there. It's the best place you can be.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And I hope it's with a therapist who doesn't encourage you to let the pedo next door hang out with your traumatized kids or blame you for their breakdowns. That would be nice.

Apparently her last therapist got their degree from a cereal box.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Unbelievable. Literally, dude. Graduated from the University of American Samoa, for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: Is that where Saul Goodman went to school in Breaking Bad?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's where he went to law school.

Jordan Harbinger: They have a psychology program as well, I'm sure. Why did they pick on American Samoa? Anyway.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It's a made up school, right? I think it's just like, it just sounds like a shady university.

Jordan Harbinger: Anyway, complex PTSD is a beast, man. It's got to be super intense to heal from. Like we keep saying, you've been through a lot.

But with your newfound peace and freedom, and you know, time not spent collecting dead animal carcasses, such a great time to really dive into your therapy. And there must be a lot to process.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Especially because it sounds like she's lost some friends along the way, which is sad. And that's an interesting detail in context too.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that jumps out to me in this letter as well. It's hard to know what to make of that. But I can understand why hearing somebody tell her to calmly reason with the monster next door she's been talking about for months, why that would piss her off and make her go like, okay, you either get this or you don't, I don't have time to convince a friend that I'm actually in trouble here, bye.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It's a fair point. I also wonder, just given that symptom you mentioned of complex PTSD, the thing about relating to other people, if some of the things she's been through have also made it harder for her to stay close with her friends. I mean, maybe those connections feel more precarious or riskier, maybe being vulnerable with people is harder now.

I don't know, maybe it's hard to trust other people, any people, or bear that closeness. I can't say I blame her if she felt that way given what she's been through, but all the more reason to turn to a solid professional right now and be talking about this exact theme. It sounds like you've been isolated to some degree by all of this, and now is the time to say, okay, I'm going to turn to the right people because I need connection, I need insight, I need support.

That's what I would be making a priority right now for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: Amen, Gabe. It's really, really hard to do that alone. I would also say you might be experiencing some immediate relief now that the guy's gone, but progress in this might be one step forward, two steps back, or whatever.

You might be overjoyed that he's gone, but then devastated by the trauma that he's caused, and those effects can obviously linger. So if your peace comes and goes, it doesn't mean that you're failing at recovery. It's just part of the process, which is rarely linear.

So just keep that in mind so it doesn't sneak up on you. He might not live next door anymore, but he might live on in your mind for a while.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: So just keep it in mind. So glad the nightmare is behind you. I'm so happy that you get to come back to some semblance of normalcy and come back to yourself.

And I hope this creep continues to crash and burn and the rest of his life is very difficult, and I hope he doesn't hurt any more people, most importantly. Most of all, I hope you continue to feel better and that a whole new chapter of your life opens up. Sending you a huge hug and absolutely zero squirrels in your mailbox, wishing you all the best.

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Now, back to Feedback Friday.

Gabriel Mizrahi: All right, next up. Hi Jordan and Gabe. My estranged wife and I separated about three years ago.

But over the past year, she's repeatedly said she wants to work things out. More recently, we started behaving like a couple again, emotionally and romantically. And I genuinely believed we were working toward reconciling.

A few weeks ago, I finally asked her directly whether we were actually together. She told me she isn't ready for a committed relationship. I told her I respect her honesty, but that I can't continue something romantic without commitment because I want a meaningful relationship and believed that was what we were building toward.

Jordan Harbinger: Boy, okay. Tough conversation, I'm sure. Very sorry that did not go the way that you had hoped.

But it also sounds like a pretty informative conversation, man. You asked for clarity. You said what you want.

She told you where she stands, what she wants, and the process you're in is messy. But conversations like this are essential to clear up the mess and take good care of yourself. So I'm glad you had the chat.

Well done.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The difficult part is the history behind this. We met at university, eventually married, and have a wonderful five-year-old daughter.

During our marriage, my work required me to spend weeks away from home. My wife struggled with that, and despite my efforts to stay connected and be present when I was home, she repeatedly accused me of cheating. Six months after we married, I discovered she was cheating on me with an ex.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow, those accusations are often confessions, right? Projection.

Gabriel Mizrahi: She initially apologized, but when I returned from another work trip, I discovered the relationship was still continuing.

She then told me she no longer wanted our marriage.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, my dude. That sucks. So she accuses you of cheating when she's cheating, and then when she's caught, she's like, yeah, I'm not going to stop.

Wow, that's not okay. I don't want to jump the gun, but I've got to ask, why on earth do you want to get back together with this woman? What the heck?

Gabriel Mizrahi: We remained under the same roof for a while to co-parent. After the following years, there were several attempts at reconciliation, but they repeatedly fell apart, including situations where she was simultaneously involved with other men.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Okay, so they've been through this cycle multiple times, not just this latest round or whatever.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, he's reliving something with her over and over again, hoping for a different result. Very interesting.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And every time it involves her having relationships with other men, I mean, okay, you're not her choice, bro. We've got to figure this out.

Gabriel Mizrahi: At one point, she moved out to live with someone else, became pregnant, eventually left that relationship and later moved back in with me.

Jordan Harbinger: Dude, okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You might want to hold off because this is going to get crazier, okay?

She had the baby. He's now 15 months old.

Jordan Harbinger: What?

I'm frantically searching for a sound bite that could encompass my level of shock and confusion right now. This is so ridiculous. Gabe, the only thing I can come up with is, you are not.

Is that too cold? I mean, dude, we're not making fun of you. This is just such an entire massive cluster.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my God, dude. I did not see that one coming. I hope our friend over there is laughing.

We, oh man, we say this in jest. Yeah, look, we're trying to have a laugh with you because this is so intense. This is so intense.

When she moved back in, my wife and I again started trying to rebuild our relationship, only for me to discover she was still seeing the father of her son.

Jordan Harbinger: I just need a moment to process this. So not only is she cheating on him with multiple men, but like''¦

Gabriel Mizrahi: She gets pregnant with one of them.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. And then moves back in with him and then is like, you know, take care of the baby or maybe moves back in with him and then has the baby. I don't know.

It doesn't really matter. I'm clear. But then she's like, oh, I'm going to keep seeing the other guy.

Like, what is going on here?

Gabriel Mizrahi: While our boy believes that they are working on things.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

Okay. So Uncle Jordan's got to speak out in a minute here and lay down the law.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Despite all of that, I still love her.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I hear you. But loving her now is just reckless, heedless, unkind to yourself and utterly out of touch with reality here.

I believe you when you say you love her, I believe you, but you can still love her and need to get the hell out of this toxic, terrible situation. And I think it's time to accept this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: What makes this particularly confusing for me is what has happened on my side. Since our separation, I've tried dating other women, but I haven't been able to emotionally attach to them. One relationship lasted several months.

Another woman even talked about marriage and becoming a stepmother to my daughter. But I couldn't open myself up emotionally. I eventually ended those relationships because I knew I wasn't fully invested.

Meanwhile, I've poured myself into being a father and building my career. My daughter has been my anchor throughout all of this, and being her father is the most important thing in my life. My wife herself tells me I'm a great father, which means a lot to me.

My relationship with the baby is strictly as a co-parent. I treat him with love and care for my daughter's sake, but he is not my biological child. And yet, after everything that's happened, I still find myself hoping that my wife will eventually choose me.

Am I holding on because I genuinely love her and believe our family can still be rebuilt? Or have I become emotionally attached to the hope of getting back the family and marriage I wanted? Why can't I seem to emotionally let go of her or attach to someone else, despite knowing that the relationship we've had has repeatedly hurt me?

And most importantly, what do I do now? Do I accept that she has told me she doesn't want a committed relationship and finally let go?

Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Or is there something I'm failing to understand about why I keep going back to her?

Jordan Harbinger: Also yes, and probably even more or slash equally important.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Signed, looking for the fix, when I just can't seem to quit my wife who has other people in the mix, and I can't find my way out of this conflict.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man. Okay. Gabe, I've got to thank you for making me a more compassionate person over the years because Jordan from 10, 15 years ago would not have handled this that well.

Gabriel Mizrahi: What would he say?

Jordan Harbinger: There's just people screaming at their radios right now that probably be like, you simp, what is wrong with you? Grow a spine. I can't believe how pathetic this is.

There's a part of me that's like kind of there too, but also there's, this is happening for a reason and it's, it goes way back and you've got to fix the root cause or you're going to end up in this mess. And dude, you have kids or a kid and then another kid that has a crap father probably or not one and your crazy ass wife as a mom. Sorry not sorry.

I mean, that's just tragic to me anyway. First of all, thank you sincerely for being so open with us about all this. This is compassionate, mature Jordan here, thankfully.

And thank you for walking us through this incredibly tumultuous relationship that you're in and for owning up to all these decisions and feelings. I really appreciate that. And I'm very sorry for all the pain you've, I mean, I'm having secondhand pain from this and it's awful.

You're still experiencing this and your marriage, all the confusion, the dashed hopes, the endless cycle of reconciled, fake reconciliation and separation. Your heart must just be shot, man. You've got to have level, whatever, adrenal fatigue from all this.

This was a marathon to read. I can't even imagine what it was like to live this. So here's the deal, man, I'm going to give it to you straight because I actually would love to see you get through this.

You and your wife are not meant to be married or together at all. I mean, your marriage is over. It's been over from, it never kind of started.

She was always cheating on you. You found out six months in, dude, it probably, she probably had that relationship before you guys even tied the knot. I'm just going to be straight about it.

So it's been over for a very long time. If there was ever even a real marriage here, you have way more than enough information now to know that this relationship, the relationship you want is never going to happen with this woman ever. It's never going to happen, ever.

I have to say that over and over because I feel like you have a little bit of hope about this. Your wife has told you she has shown you with her actions again and again and again that she is not even remotely interested in rebuilding your marriage in a real and healthy way. You are her fallback for when other guys don't work out.

That's it. Take her at her word, bro. Let go.

Now, why is she's having all these relationships with all these people and then she keeps going off and coming back to you? I mean, I have vague theories, like I mentioned before, they just don't even matter right now. I think your wife has serious issues.

She needs to work out, obviously. I hope she does that one day, but that's her business, man. Your business is taking care of you because you've got a kid.

And the sense I'm getting is that you have not even been doing that at all. Not taking care of your kid. I mean, taking care of yourself, right?

You've been clinging to this crazy woman, holding out hope for this woman, welcoming her back every time she goes astray, including when she's got knocked up with some other guy's kid, which is quite a choice, and you've given her chance after chance and assumed she was on the same page, even though she's totally full of it, you've been hurt so many times. Obviously, I'll be honest here, I'm pretty angry with your wife. I think she's behaved callously, recklessly, hurtfully.

There's something wrong with her, but also, what an asshole. She's an asshole, man. I'm sorry.

You've absolutely participated, though, in that mess. This mess does not exist without you. Without your endless chances, without your naive hopes, without your tolerance for this just top-shelf bullshit and her almost comical degree of disrespect and disregard for your well-being, and I understand that you want to rebuild your marriage.

I understand that you love your wife. This is not a healthy person to love. This is not a person who deserves your love, and as reckless and hurtful as she has been towards you, it's important for you to see that.

At this point, you have been equally reckless and hurtful towards yourself by remaining involved with somebody who would do all of this. So, your last question is the right one. You asked why.

Are you holding on because you genuinely love her? You tell me. Do you genuinely love her, or are you fighting for something?

Are you insisting on something that might have way more to do with you and what you want to see happen?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Or what you don't want to see happen.

Jordan Harbinger: Right, or both.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And if you do love her, why? What is the quality of that love that you're talking about?

How does it feel for you to love someone? Take a deep breath, Papa. You earned it.

Jordan Harbinger: I'm worked up. I know. I'm like, ooh, is it the caffeine, or am I having a mild heart attack?

I am 46. Anything can happen.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Your Oura Ring just logged some uncategorized activity, and it's beautiful for me to watch.

Jordan Harbinger: Are you golfing right now? Are you golfing?

Gabriel Mizrahi: You and that guy from a couple weeks ago just burned 12,000 calories talking about it.

Jordan Harbinger: People say, hey man, you've lost a lot of weight. You know what the trick is? Reading Feedback Friday letters and then punching holes in the wall of my studio.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Reading about repeat infidelity is my cardio. Yeah. Thank you for your honesty and for your passion, and I think, I hope he is taking in these words.

That's all I can say. But yeah, back to my question. How does it feel for you to love someone who treats you this way?

And do you think that love that you're talking about is being really reflected in your marriage and in your family? I think we know the answer to that.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But he has to answer that for himself. And if you have become emotionally attached to the hope of getting back the family and marriage you wanted.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Which, by the way, clearly you have. I don't think this is an if.

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Good point. He's asking it like it's a question, but it's not. He's obviously very invested in recreating his marriage.

You know, it's not even his marriage. It's the fantasy of the marriage that he thought he was going to have. But actually, it never existed.

It never did. She was always screwing this other guy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Good point, because it was dysfunctional and misaligned from almost the beginning. Yeah. Or maybe earlier.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. The most charitable interpretation we have right now is that six months into their marriage, she was already screwing an ex.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

Jordan Harbinger: And cheating on him. So and that's like her version. It's more likely she just never stopped screwing her ex and then got married anyways because the ex wouldn't marry her.

Anyway, given all that, why are you insisting on this marriage despite all of the evidence? What exactly is at stake for you in all this? Here's a better way to ask that question.

What would happen to you and what feelings would you have to confront if you and your terrible wife finally called it quits? That's the question. Gabe, I think he thinks that if she finally chooses him over in fantasy land where that actually happens, it will undo all of the rejection and all of the pain that he's felt over the years because he comes out on top of the end.

That's what he's waiting around for. But it's like that's ludicrous.

Gabriel Mizrahi: He's saying I'm emotionally attached to the hope of getting back the family and marriage I wanted. He might actually be saying I'm attached to the hope that I won't have to feel what it feels like if I don't get back the family and marriage I wanted.

Jordan Harbinger: Bingo.

Which I have to imagine means feeling all of the feelings, the deep sadness, tons of anger, probably a fair amount of shame, a lot of fear about who he is without this woman, a lot of uncertainty about what comes next. Remember, they met in university, so he hasn't had the time to become a fully formed adult man without her.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Who am I if I'm not this woman's husband?

Jordan Harbinger: Right, exactly. And I kind of get that, right? I got married at 35, so if it's like, oh my gosh, who am I without my wife?

Well, I'm the guy I was back then, but a little bit more grown, whereas this guy's like, no, my life without this person is like this weird black box that's like a vague funhouse mirror image and that's scarier. So my theory is that all of the uncertainty and everything is being kept at bay by his hard-headed insistence on making it all work eventually one day, maybe.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it's a very good theory. And what's at stake here might not just be those specific feelings around his wife and their marriage, but maybe his emotional life in general, because I have to wonder how much this guy has tamped down for a very long time in order to stay connected to this person who has hurt him and be a strong father to his kid.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, but where did he learn that, man?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. And so there's almost certainly an even deeper layer to this always, which is his own past, his own early experiences and how that led him into this cycle that he keeps repeating. His last question, I think, is his best question.

Why do I keep going back to her? What am I failing to understand? Unfortunately, we can't tell you that with total certainty.

We would need to know so much more about you.

Jordan Harbinger: So much more. He's pointing at a door with a sign on it that says childhood, but he hasn't shown us into that room at all.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is also kind of interesting to me that he's asking that question without providing the information required to answer it. But maybe that's a sign that he himself doesn't understand this more primitive stuff, which would maybe make sense because if he understood it better, he maybe wouldn't be stuck in the cycle.

Jordan Harbinger: Look, we can throw out all kinds of armchair psychologist or whatever theories here, but like, well, maybe his mother's got mental illness, like narcissism or something like that. Maybe she's surprisingly like that. Or like maybe he grew up without a dad.

Who knows? Right? There's all kinds of stuff that can inform this.

But yeah, he wouldn't be writing us if he was really aware of all these patterns and where they came from.

Right? Well, because we're here, I'm just going to fall on the sword and say that it's absolutely time to go to therapy, Gabriel.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Is it time to go to therapy?

The T word, baby. All right. Get in there.

The S word. Sessions. The C word.

Couch. All the words. I assume you would have told us if you were there.

I gather you're not. But if you really want to understand what's keeping you stuck, what led you here and what's keeping you stuck, you've got to start talking, my dude. And you've got to go backward because these answers that you're looking for, they are yours and yours alone to find.

You're going to have to talk about mom. You're going to have to talk about dad. You're going to have to talk about childhood, early experiences, past partners, if there are any, the wounds that you have, what your relationship with your wife has brought up for you, how you've responded to her, what these patterns reveal about you, all of that.

There's some really important excavating to do. You are clearly compelled to repeat this pattern. So the question you need to chase is why and where did it begin?

Jordan Harbinger: I also strongly suspect, and I guess this also speaks to childhood stuff, that our friend here is struggling in a big way with, well, a basic sense of confidence and self-worth. On some level, he must feel he doesn't deserve better than this or he wouldn't stay. And the pain and humiliation that he's endured by taking his wife back again and again, it's just got to be confirming some core belief for him and or it must be fulfilling some kind of function for him.

Again, what this is and why that's there, he needs to figure that out. All we can do is be somewhat objective outsiders and say, my dude, look at the way your wife has treated you. Look at the way you've let her treat you.

What does that say about what you believe you deserve in this life, man? And then encourage you to really chase down the answer to that. So I hope you get to do that, bud.

My hope for you is that you get the insights you need and finally separate from your wife, not necessarily in that order. You can close this door while working on why you keep opening it. Because honestly, as crucial as analysis is for you, nothing will teach you more than finally saying enough is enough and being willing to step into a new chapter.

All those difficult feelings you haven't had to feel because you've been trying with your wife, one-sided, one of you's been trying only, that's the other part that just is so sad. You're going to be in touch with all of those feelings. Also some pretty good feelings as well.

It's going to be intense, but it's going to be great. And it's going to teach you a lot about what you've been avoiding by clinging to this terrible woman who has caused you so much pain.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And by the way, your daughter, who even if she doesn't fully understand what mom is up to or why dad is going through it, she must be picking up on this dysfunction in the house in some way and is having a very troubling form of love modeled for her in the house. So I know how much your daughter means to you. I know how much being a good father means to you.

So I would just keep that in mind as well, what all of this means for your child and for that matter, for her half-brother, although I know your relationship with him is complicated. And remember that you are not just doing this for yourself.

Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. I also want to remind you that your family can still have a future even if your marriage doesn't. Your wife doesn't have to choose you in order for you to remain a loving, present father.

In fact, I would argue that without her, it's going to be a lot easier because you won't be expending all this energy being stabbed in the heart all the damn time. I'm very sorry you went through this or going through this, but I am not sorry that you've arrived at this point right now where the dysfunction is forcing you to confront the fact that something has to change. Take good care of yourself, man, and good luck.

Keep us posted. And now we're going to impregnate your ears with the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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Start a thread or join a thread over there on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Okay, back to Feedback Friday.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabriel, I'm writing this letter after following Jordan's number one piece of advice for years, build your network, and discovering that there may be a shortcoming in this grandiose strategy.

Jordan Harbinger: Did he mean grandiose? Is that what he meant to say?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I think he meant grand, but I think he's making fun of how you say grandiose.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so he's roasting me and low-key shitting on my central life philosophy. Great, fun way to start. Let's hear it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm 45.

I work in a fairly niche field, not many people in my profession. I've been in the same role for over nine years with the same employer. It's hard to picture staying in this role until retirement, but if I don't move now, I'm certainly not going to become more employable by waiting.

I have a real network in my industry. I'm active and well-regarded. I can call someone up to talk through a tricky technical problem.

I'm in touch with executives and board members at very large companies. I volunteer in professional associations where I took on responsibilities. My network exists, and it has real value.

And yet, I've been trying to change jobs for over a year, and I'm not getting anywhere. That network is great for talking shop with peers, but it never turned into a network of opportunities for a new role. I even went as far as hiring a career coach to help me find a job.

Practically, I hired someone to hold me accountable for applying your Build Your Network course, send emails, look for introductions, check on former colleagues, etc. This did not help. The coach says all her clients are in the same situation because of the economic situation and tough job market.

Jordan Harbinger: Which, to be fair, that might be totally playing a role. I know it's a very weird time economically around the world right now. That said, I get emails pretty much every week from people who use Six-Minute Networking to find jobs, so there's always a way.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And yes, my network knows that I'm looking for a job, at least a fair share of it. What would you do in my shoes? Can you think of something I may have missed in my networking?

And if I really haven't missed anything in how I applied your advice, what does that say about your usual advice on networking? Signed a connected fellow, hitting the limits of rubbing elbows.

Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. First things first, well done on taking your relationships seriously. Well done on being able to pick up the phone and talk shop with all these people, and kudos to you for enlisting so much support.

Look, your network, the career coach, that's important, it keeps you on track, hopefully opens new doors. Really cool. I know it's going to make a huge difference in your career.

Second, look, I hear you on all this, this is a fair challenge. Your relationships can definitely improve your access to people and to information, but they don't automatically guarantee that a future employer has the mandate and a budget to hire someone, and to hire you out of all the candidates. So I'm going to go ahead and pretend you didn't mock my occasional British pronunciation of certain words, and then drag my universally beloved, extremely practical, and totally free networking course over at sixminutenetworking.com, still available, I'm going to pretend none of that happened and share some thoughts with you. My first thought is, there's the nuts and bolts work of maintaining your relationships, and there's the how you show up in those relationships. Doing all the legwork stuff in Six-Minute Networking is crucial, warming up old contacts, planting seeds, reaching out during big life moments, helping people out. But if you don't do that with warmth and with curiosity and with generosity, with follow-through, with all your talent and intelligence, in other words, with real substance, the techniques will only really take you so far.

Now, I'm not saying you haven't done that, for all we know, you've been brilliant in all these interactions, and given how well-regarded you are, it's likely that you have. I'm just saying it for the sake of clarity here. But you also said that your network is great for talking shop with peers, and I guess I wonder what talking shop means, because I feel like there's a clue here.

Yes, for sure, being able to hop on the phone with other people in your world and talk out a problem, sitting on boards, volunteering with organizations, that's awesome, I'm all for it. But are you truly helping meet those people's needs? When you and a peer talk out an issue, do you follow up with them a couple weeks later and say, like, here's what I've learned since we last spoke, here's how I've implemented it in my world, here's how you can do the same, let me know if I can help.

When you meet someone great, do you turn around and introduce them to somebody else you think they should meet for a specific reason? The same kinds of introductions you're hoping that they'll make for you, basically, are you doing that?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Talking shop and creating shop are different things.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, and again, maybe you're doing that, but I just want to remind you that this relationship building stuff, it's simple, but it's not about just checking boxes, like, well, texted that old colleague a six word message today, that's my relationship building sorted, or I volunteer for the licensing board, so I'm automatically plugged in. What you do in these places, how you contribute concretely in these interactions, that matters immensely. And on a related note, there is a difference between professional respect and hiring confidence.

Like, people generally knowing you can solve certain problems, that does not mean that they're going to know exactly where you fit in another organization, or which organizations you want to work at, specific roles that you need help accessing, and then of course, it's not going to help them actually advocate for you, you have to connect those dots for people. A nice test for this is, if I were to ask three people in your network what job you want next, and why you'd be great at it, would I get roughly the same answer from those three people? Or would they be like, uh, I don't know, I mean, he's good at running groups, and he's great with software code, but like, I don't know, I'm not sure.

Being known to be looking versus actually asking, those are also two different things. By the way, a lot of good networkers struggle with this piece. They don't directly ask for the help they need.

They're generous. I get this question all the time when I give keynotes, people are like, what if I do, and it's exactly this. They're generous, but generosity doesn't mean solving everybody else's problems, and then just politely hoping somebody magically intuits your needs and what you want.

So if that might be happening, my advice would be to make more direct asks of people and do more of the legwork for them. It is crucial to give people the information they need to best help you. That said, you might also be totally right.

Your network's great for talking shop with peers, but it's not generating job opportunities. But if that's the case, isn't the logical answer to keep expanding your network to include people who are plugged into these opportunities, rather than go, maybe this networking stuff's not all it's cracked up to be. It sounds to me like you're not getting the results you want, which I know is frustrating.

I mean, I get it. And instead of redirecting your hard work to new places that might open these doors, you're just sort of turning your frustration into this criticism, which is tempting to do. But I promise you, it's not going to get you very far, certainly not get you a job that you want.

So unless you literally know every single person in your industry around the world and you're BFFs with half of them, which I doubt, right, there's definitely then room for you to branch out and meet some new folks. For example, peers in other countries and other functions within your same industry in adjacent fields, who knows, maybe in completely different industries. Networking diversity is very important.

And I see this mistake a lot. You know, real estate agents are like, I know every real estate agent in the whole town. Cool.

But do you know people who aren't in real estate? And the answer is usually no. So it's like, ooh, you know, that's a problem.

For example, in the podcasting world, there are tons of people who all know the same people and the same job openings and the same companies and the same founders. So making more contacts within that niche, that actually just adds very little. But if somebody who works in podcasting also has strong relationships in radio and satellite radio, print journalism, audio tech space, whatever, you get the picture.

Okay. So you might need more connections in a totally different hiring circle, more than you need another 50 people who are in your exact pond. And if you're still not getting the job opportunities you want, then it might be time to be a little more flexible and a little more playful.

For example, rather than hunting for jobs, I would hunt for needs. What do people in your world actually need? What problems are they desperately trying to solve?

What do the people in their networks need? And try to help answer those things. I cannot tell you how many stories I've heard over the years of people who invented jobs for themselves just by being useful.

Executives often don't know they need someone until they see how much someone has helped. And then they're like, oh crap, we can't afford not to hire this person. In fact, I have an awesome example of this.

I think I've told this on the show before. There was a guy, this is in a book I read years ago. There was a kid actually, he was in the customer service of a yacht company and he kept getting emails from people and they'd be like, I have this problem with this boat, I have this problem with this boat.

And it wasn't his job to answer them. And he realized that nobody was replying to these people. And so he would try and help, but it wasn't really directly what his job was at this company.

So he started, this is a while ago on the internet, he started like an internet forum where people who had this kind of yacht or boat, whatever it was, could log in and make an account and then they could post their question and other people who had the same problem would say like, oh, here's how I fixed this. And here's where I got this part. And he would answer questions in there and his employer found out he was doing this and they fired him.

So then what he did was he charged for forum access and spent all of his time helping those people and it became the place to get help with your boat of that brand. Guess what the company did? They hired his consulting company back at a multiple of his former salary and that's what he does now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Chef's kiss.

Jordan Harbinger: Chef's kiss, right? They were like, oh crap, we need a customer support portal.

Oh, it turns out there's a guy that has thousands of our boat owners on it and he owns it. And, oh, do we have a contact for him? Yeah, we fired him three months ago.

Oops. He was making 40 grand a year, but he's willing to come back for a quarter million dollars a quarter. Yeah.

It's like, all right. So yeah, they could not afford not to hire this person. People were furious with the company for not responding.

They literally couldn't afford not to bring him on board. Another example of this kind of thing, a candidate hooks them up with something valuable and goes, Hey, if you want me to do this for you all the time, let's call it director of business development or something. And you pay me X dollars for that.

So that's another way to be more playful. I've hired many people who say, Hey, let me try this thing for you. And I'm like, wow, I need that.

How much does it cost for you to work for me? Another way to be more flexible is to stay open to different kinds of roles and opportunities. Just totally different.

So you're not finding jobs through your network. Fine. What about jobs in industries you haven't considered in different fields where your knowledge and skills would directly translate?

What about staying at your current company, but looking for consulting gigs with other organizations which could either be a great side hustle or turn into a full-time position down the line? Just like this kid with the yacht customer service for totally great idea.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Sometimes when we're not getting what we want, the answer isn't to look for that thing harder. It's to open up our definition of what that thing could be.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

But in the meantime, keep focusing on these inputs, helping, supporting, asking, connecting, and trust that these inputs will always pay off eventually. Sometimes when we judge something solely by the results we want on the timeline we want, it's easy to doubt the whole enterprise, which would be a shame. It's very possible that your relationships are still developing, that your network is still growing, and that you are still learning how to best support people, all of which is totally fine.

I mean, you said it's been a year. That might sound like a long time, but that's not a very long time. But all you can do is keep putting in the work and keep getting better.

You do that. I know your relationships will take good care of you. I hope that helps, my friend, and good luck.

By the way, you can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Try to keep your emails concise, try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a lot easier, dead squirrels in the mailbox, or your backdoor step, which isn't much better, somebody you know has committed government fraud and you're debating whether to report them, or you're wracked with guilt and grief about terminating a pregnancy unnecessarily and your church group has kicked you out after learning about it.

Still worked up about that one from last week as well. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

All right, now we want you to rub elbows with the amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back. If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do.

Take a moment, support the sponsors. They're all searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. If there's anything wrong with it, email us.

We'll dig up the code for you. There's a lot of broken ones in there. I finally had AI go through and test all the codes.

We're doing that every month. It finds a ton of broken ones. But if you find one before that, I would love to fix it for you.

Email us jordan at jordanharbinger.com. We'll get that taken care of. Thank you for supporting those who support the show.

Now for the rest of Feedback Friday. All right, time for the recommendation of the week.

I am addicted to lip filler.

My recommendation of the week is getting screened for sleep apnea. If you snore, even if you don't wake up at night or you think you don't, but you're tired in the morning. Basically, what I've learned recently is that tons of people have undiagnosed sleep apnea.

And some of the solutions you can try are pretty simple. Like mouth tape, which is cheap. Mouth guards, which can be really affordable.

Stuff like that. But it can change your life. It can even extend your life.

Sleep apnea is kind of a slow killer, which is terrifying. It leads to all kinds of other issues. Brain issues, body issues.

It's really not good. So it's worth a test. Insurance covered mine.

The doctor was like, why do you think you need this? And I basically said, I took an at home sleep apnea test through some mail order telehealth clinic and they found this. And they were like, that doesn't look good.

So then they had me come into the sleep lab and do it. And they're like, okay, it's so mild that there's nothing you can really do about it. Fine.

But it's good to know. Turns out I had that sleep apnea. And it's not because I was overweight or anything.

People think, oh, that's what happens when you're a hundred pounds overweight. No, you can have it because dental stuff, mouth stuff, the way you're built, the way you sleep. But look, if this gets worse for me, I've got to have a dental procedure.

So it's just good to know. Now I can keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn't get worse. And if you do have it and it is serious, this is a very good thing to know and a very good thing to treat because this, it can literally kill you slowly.

It's not good to let this go. So that's my rec of the week.

Gabriel Mizrahi: All right. What's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe.

I started listening to Feedback Friday a few years ago, and now your whole podcast is in my heavy rotation. Sometimes I listen for the drama. Sometimes I listen so I can feel better about my life.

But more and more, I'm noticing that your guys' approach to solving problems and the core ideas you talk about are showing up in my life in some very tangible ways. So thank you.

Jordan Harbinger: That's awesome.

I love to hear that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The other day I was listening to an old episode and I realized how far you guys have come. I was thinking about how much you probably learn doing the show and how much your thinking must change on certain topics, whether it's the institution of marriage or gut health or psychopathy or geopolitics.

So I wanted to ask, what have you guys learned the most about by doing the show? On what topics and from what sources, if you can share? Signed, Hoping To Clock And Take Stock Of The Things You've Grokked.

Jordan Harbinger: Good question. This is going to be super hard to answer. I feel like I'm constantly learning new stuff every single week.

I'm always adding new arrows to my quiver and learning about industries and problems and regions I knew nothing about. It's kind of the whole ethos of the show, really. So I think when it comes to Feedback Friday, the biggest thing I've learned is that we're all dealing with very different things externally.

But internally, we're all dealing with very similar things. The same things, really. Whether it's feelings or conflicts or values or goals, they really seem to be universal.

And I love finding that in your letters because it reminds me that we are all really going through the same stuff. And I guess it gives me some comfort because if we're all ultimately dealing with the same themes, then the answers, if there are answers, those are also universal. And maybe a part of our job is to reduce the complexity of our unique situations down to the common well of feelings and experiences underneath them.

Does that make sense?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: Which kind of gets at another thing I've learned, which is how to make sense of really big problems, how to break them down, how to separate the strands. You've got to know which pieces to tackle and when and how and when to take action and when to step back and just kind of allow things to play out.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. Surrender the parts you can't do anything about and fight like hell for the things you have to. Yeah, that's a big one for me as well.

Jordan Harbinger: I also feel like I'm just constantly in awe of what our listeners go through and what they survive.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, yeah. I mean, look at question one from today. Right?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. A literal nightmare from beginning to end. Our friend made it through.

And so as cheesy as it sounds, I really do learn resilience from y'all. And I try to take some of that into my own life. Like if someone can deal with a tragedy and harassment and dead squirrels in their mailbox, I think I can handle''”

Gabriel Mizrahi: Doorstep.

Jordan Harbinger: Sorry. Dead squirrels on the doorstep. Totally different.

Dead squirrels in their trunk. Yeah. I think I can handle my kid's tantrum over not being able to get new Pokémon cards that night or a difficult show sponsor busting my balls or who knows?

Maybe a real problem. Something worse. Outside of Feedback Friday, I want to pick a funny one because, yeah, like I learned about slavery on the open seas and I learned about human trafficking, but like, okay, just to go from highbrow to lowbrow with zero segue, when I did these Skeptical Sundays on penis size and penis enlargement''”

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that was a good segue, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: I learned a ton from this episode. And what's really funny is actually, I don't think I shared this with you, Gabe. So, we sent our kids to school and we were talking with all these parents and I was in a conversation with a gay couple, two guys.

He's this pretty flamboyant Chinese gay dude and he's like, what's your podcast? And I told him and he subscribes right on his phone from the playground and the first episode is penis size and he goes, ooh, and he listened to it and the next day I saw him and he's like, that was so interesting. And I was like, oh God, that's the first episode.

And the next episode he goes, well, I am a gay man and it was the most interesting one I've heard. I've heard more since then and that one tops the charts. It was so funny because I felt like, of course I tell a parent at my kid's school about my show and the first thing they see is that one.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's great. I'm so glad you didn't tell him about the show the week you did slavery on the open seas.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, he would have been like, oh, this is too heavy for me. Meanwhile, he's like, oh, dicks, cool. Let's talk about that play date.

I learned a ton from this online community of guys when I was doing that show. They do body modification stuff with their junk for like, and so like they pump it or they clamp it. These guys, at first I expected a bunch of just total freakazoids, right?

These guys are as close as it gets to true experts in this stuff from their own experience. There's scientists in there who are doing research on it and using PubMed tissue remodeling studies and stuff. They explained a lot of this stuff to me.

They took a lot of time. They connected me with companies and resources and stuff that just really helped with those episodes. And so Skeptical Sunday shows me these weird sides of humanity that I never knew existed.

And I find knowledge in some very weird places like this community of dudes who are obsessed with making their packages bigger, which is like, who knew that even existed? For example, these dudes I connected with online were researching the episode. And look, it's one of them's name is Chez.

The other guy's Chaz. The other guy's Basim. So the first two, Chez and Chaz, your dick coaches.

They're actually super knowledgeable. I'm just naming a few of these guys. They know a shocking amount of complex stuff.

Like I said, tissue remodeling. I of course was like, I've got to fact-check this with real doctors in the space and I brought it to urologists and they're like, wow, yeah, I've never seen this, but this all totally makes sense. Let me check this PubMed study.

Yeah, okay. They'd all check. I was just shocked at how accurate some of these essentially dude bros on the internet were with this stuff.

And I'll shout out their company called EpicExtender.com, which I think is hilarious branding as well. And I was also very surprised by how, look, you think like, oh, fly by night. No.

Customer service. There's a community element. You'd think like they sell dick stuff on the internet.

Good luck getting your money back. No. It's crazy how involved everyone is.

And I guess, I guess making your penis a hobby quickly makes it a fan favorite. It's just been again, super fun to get this inside look at a well-run company and an industry that is basically like 0.0001 of the world even knows this exists. So those are a few of the main ones, the ones that stick out.

No pun intended. Gabe, how about you? Anything interesting you've learned recently?

And you can't say putting stuff in your penis because I already took that one.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. You took mine.

I don't know what to say now.

Jordan Harbinger: Sorry, bro. You're going to have to make one up now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: All right. Thinking on my feet. I feel like I'm also constantly learning from Feedback Friday constantly.

Every single week is a masterclass in handling a new problem or understanding a new part of life that, you know, I probably haven't lived myself yet.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it really is. This show is like a dojo for the human condition.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But like you just said, underneath all of the problems are these handful of common experiences and true wisdom. It's always simple.

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And it's always universal. And it's always timeless. And I feel like most of the time it's more like remembering something that I've forgotten, you know, over and over again, like, oh, yeah, that's what we're actually all afraid of.

Death, loss, having our egos bruised and not knowing what's going to happen, like our friend who can't leave this marriage because it's all he knows. Of course, that's what we're all dealing with or like another big one. Life can turn on you in an instant.

Of course, you should be grateful for what you have.

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Of course, you should be happy when your life works well.

And for when you don't have a psycho neighbor targeting you and leaving squirrels in your mailbox or whatever, or when you still have your parents around or you're employed because none of us are in control. And that's an illusion. And I just it's like every week I forget I have like the Men in Black device like choo choo.

And then I'm like, oh, yeah, no, we're good. I'm fine. I control everything.

And then you read Feedback Friday and you're like, no, that's not how it works. I don't know about you, but I forget these things all the time because they're just so obvious and I take them for granted. I lose sight of them.

And Feedback Friday reminds me of that.

Jordan Harbinger: Dude, totally. I'm the same way. I don't want to think about that stuff.

Plus, I have a thousand other things demanding my attention on any given day. And it's just it's hard to stay connected to that most basic form of gratitude.

Gabriel Mizrahi: There are also a lot of practical things that I learned from your letters, like I don't know how important it is to get a lawyer, for example, when you have a legal problem. My instinct would maybe be to try to handle a legal thing myself, if possible, like call a lawyer friend, have them coach me or use Claude to draft up a contract or represent myself in small claims court, because actually it kind of sounds fun and I would love to find out if I could actually do it. Or here's another one that comes up sometimes.

Talk to the police alone, if I ever had to, because, you know, like, what do I have to hide? But then we hear stories from people who did nothing wrong and somehow get in trouble because they didn't say, look, I'm happy to talk to you. But I want to call my lawyer first.

That's something I learned on the show.

Jordan Harbinger: That's a good one. It's a solid practical. Do not talk to the police without a lawyer if you're involved in something.

If you witness a car accident or whatever, that's different. But yeah, this is something respectful law abiding people often struggle to live by. But many police and, of course, defense attorneys have told me this.

Not it's not this is not some sort of niche podcast bro advice.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm constantly amazed by how the system, broadly speaking, can fail us profoundly. And just how limited and dysfunctional it often is, whether it's a government agency or law enforcement or the health care system or like insurance companies after your home burns down.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's a big one, because I think these letters, a lot of them raise my blood pressure. I've gotten more insurance just based on like, oh, these guys moved in and they stepped on a sprinkler and then it flooded my whole house. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I need way more coverage than I have for stuff.

We all think if something truly bad happens, surely these people will have my back like the insurance company that I just bought a policy from. And for most people, something truly bad never happens. But for a lot of people, and it could be any of us, which is another thing I learned from Feedback Friday, the bad thing happens and then they go, holy crap, this agency or this expert or this resource is not actually going to help me.

Now what?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Like the guy who was assaulted and robbed in Colombia from a few weeks ago. And suddenly he's like, oh, my banks actually don't care about me.

What am I going to do?

Jordan Harbinger: No, perfect example. Exactly. You don't know until you're in trouble.

And until then, it's just this theory you have about how the world works that you're pretty sure about. Well, our world.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway, these stories are very upsetting and they're very eye opening. And so I feel like I'm always being reminded that we need to advocate for ourselves to make the most of these resources or take it upon ourselves to take good care of ourselves along the way so that we hopefully don't need these resources quite as much or and this is kind of the hardest lesson, how to make peace with the fact that sometimes really bad things happen and there's nothing anybody can really do about it.

Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Yeah. And now we're back to those themes of coming to terms, surrender, grief, all that fun stuff.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Here's one more thing that's been on my mind lately. So one of the things I love about doing Feedback Friday is just being in these problems with you guys and imagining what we would do in your shoes. And we always try to come with answers or at least questions that we hope would help.

And obviously that's why you're writing in, right? Like you're hoping for some advice that we better come with something good. But I find that there's often a temptation when doing a show like this to take the position of like the person who knows or to present as a person who has the answers, you know?

And sometimes I do because I've been through something similar, but more often than not, I'm learning right alongside you and sort of imagining myself into your situation and asking myself, what would the best version of me do here if I were facing the same issue? So it can be hard to not succumb to the pitfall of presenting as if I have it all figured out or somehow I know better or even like I would never end up in the situation and here's why kind of thing. One of the most helpful things that I've learned in therapy, and this has been extremely illuminating, is that my main defense as a person is superiority.

And the way that that defense shows up for me is, well, it's like a few ways. One is intellectualizing, which is also its own defense. Meaning moving from feeling an experience into thinking about it.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I feel like I do that a lot. Maybe it's a guy thing?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Maybe. Feel things with our hearts and our body. No, thank you.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, no thanks. I'll pass.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm going to put it through Gabe GPT up here. Thank you very much. Yeah.

And we'll be fine.

Jordan Harbinger: Keep it in the old CPU, shall we? Much less embarrassing.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It can also show up as contempt for certain things like, I don't know, if like a book or a movie provokes me or intimidates me, I might like dismiss it or poke holes in it. Or if I meet someone who's being more vulnerable than I am or messier than I would like to be, I might judge that person a little too quickly.

Jordan Harbinger: Huh. Interesting. So you think that's a defense?

It's not just like a fair opinion?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I ask myself that question a lot. And the answer is almost always, yeah, there's at least part of that that is defensive. This comes up whenever I go to a retreat or to a workshop, like these dance workshops that I do sometimes I can be so quick to dismiss things as dumb or silly or somehow beneath me, you know, and sometimes it is like, you remember that truly annoying dance workshop I told you about maybe a year ago where I just like two days of this bullshit and I was like, I hate all of this.

So there are those experiences, but usually it's not like that. I just resent that I'm not good at something or I'm daunted by how much more willing everyone else is to give it a go. It's really funny.

This actually just happened to me this last weekend. I went to this thing here in Berlin called the Conscious Dance Festival, which is this like two, two and a half day dance event where all day they offer dance workshops and meditations and parties and you can like the DJs spin like really good music and they'll like walk you through the dances and give you like some exercises and cues. And day one of this thing, I was like, I hate this.

I am so in my head. This teacher is kind of lame. These people are weird.

And I went home that night, like in a not kind of in the similar mood to the, the really bad dance thing I did a year ago. And I slept on it. I slept eight hours for the first time in a while.

I woke up feeling a little bit better. I went back and day two, I was like, Oh no, this is great. I absolutely need to be here.

Like, this is why I came to confront this self-consciousness to open my mind and open my heart. And I had such a fondness for the other people there. By the end of it, like we were all weirdos, goofballs, like we were all struggling with the exact same stuff.

And just 12 hours before I was like, I don't need this. This is mid. I'll probably just ditch tomorrow.

It's just so absurd. Anyway, this defense shows up in so many ways, like fixating on my knowledge, my competence, making sure I know what I'm doing at all times, or like looking for an inside track of some kind. That's a really big one, like information that other people don't have or creating a different relationship with an experience.

Like, for example, observing a class as an outsider, instead of actually being a participant as a student.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, that's a good one.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Sometimes that approach is smart and resourceful, and sometimes it's a way out of something. That's what I find.

Jordan Harbinger: So the mechanism is I feel uncertain. I feel confused. I feel ashamed about my ability or my vulnerability.

So I'm going to move into a position of being above this. I mean, we've all seen that, right?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's basically it. And what I've learned is that that is a move away from helplessness and toward mastery. When the reality is that most of the time, I'm not above these things.

I'm not above these people. I have so much to learn. The reason I bring this up is hosting an advice show is a really interesting experience for a person with this particular defense.

Because by being in this role of advice giver, I find it is very easy to do all of these things that I just mentioned and to slip into this superiority, which I really want to do as little as possible. And so one of the best things I've learned from the show, I think I am learning every single week, is to keep a close eye on that tendency as best I can, because it's just there to make me feel safer, which is dumb. And it doesn't serve you guys because we're all in these problems together, right?

Like 80% of the stuff on the show could happen to me or has happened to me in some way. So that's been a really great lesson to me to not rise above anything we talk about. I do not always succeed.

And by the way, for all the times that I might have slipped into this tendency, I am sorry. This is something that I just forget or I don't even notice it's happening because it happens so quickly. And then I remember over and over again, don't do that.

You don't need to do that. There's a better experience if you're actually here and you're not defending against it. But you know, whatever.

These things are a practice. And Feedback Friday is really good practice for me.

Jordan Harbinger: Super interesting, man. I feel you. It's not always easy.

I've got to point out, though, I went with, man, isn't it crazy what people do to their dicks and you're over here giving a TED Talk on psychoanalysis? It reminds me of we had a comment, I think, on Spotify or maybe it was in the subreddit. It was like, Gabriel recommends Dostoyevsky.

Jordan, here's an app that tells your dog where it can take a shit.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I vaguely remember that. But like, just for the record, I've never I've never plugged Dostoyevsky in the Rec of the Week.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, OK.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Do you think all of that body modification stuff that you've looked into, though, might also be a defense?

Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of guys what's funny about this? I thought we were done talking about that. But here we go.

A lot of guys are like, yeah, if I do this and I get a bigger peen, then I can get girls and all the guys in there like, no, no, no, no, that's not going to work. FYI. Don't be in here thinking you're going to have this totally different relationship with the opposite sex.

Like you need to work on yourself. It's really interesting, right? Because you would think they're all in there like, oh, yeah, man.

Big D. Cool, bro. It's not like that.

Like the guys in there, there's lawyers and doctors and it seems like most of the guys in there are married and stuff. And then you get these young guys in there and like, yeah, this will fix me. This will fix my self-esteem.

And you'll just have tons of older guys be like, no, that's not how you do that. You've got to get confident. You've got to work on yourself.

So I think, yeah, there's guys that start that way and then they kind of come out like, oh, okay. I went in thinking I wanted one thing and I came out with a totally different thing. I mean, it's almost like a self-help sort of thing for men.

I don't know. It just kind of, that's another thing that sort of struck me as like, wow. Okay.

You go to epicextender.com to get your like peen stretcher and you come out with like a new way of looking at the world. That's such a weird, like totally unexpected bonus.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, they could just go to a dance festival, bro. They don't put that on the website.

Jordan Harbinger: No, they don't.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But I don't know. So my point is maybe we're talking about the exact same thing.

Jordan Harbinger: Sheesh, that's a good point. It's a fun question. Thanks for asking it.

For me, it really is amazing to do a show where I constantly get to indulge my curiosity and then bring it to you guys. So actually the last thing I'll say, one of the best things I've learned by doing this show is trusting that if I find something interesting, if I find something important, other people will as well. That my own curiosity is a reliable proxy for other people's interest.

And that's been extremely helpful. But maybe that's just another way of saying what we've been talking about this whole time, which is that we are all ultimately struggling with the same stuff. We're all ultimately interested in the same stuff, which, you know, it's pretty awesome.

So go back and check out Tom Rath and Dr. Leslie John and our Skeptical Sunday on bail reform. If you haven't done so yet. Show notes and transcripts are on the website.

Advertisers deals ways to support the show at Jordan Harbinger dot com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram where you hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own.

And yeah, I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

And we'll see you next time. How could a war halfway around the world affect what you pay or what you can buy? Here's a preview with Peter Zeihan on what happens when the countries making our everyday essentials can't keep delivering.

Peter Zeihan: Since 1989, there's really only been one large military industrial complex in the world that's been American. And most of our allies buy our equipment. And what we're discovering now is a lot of these new technologies are really effective at destroying some of these types of equipment in certain environments.

The technology is evolving so quickly. The rules of the game are changing. The goalposts are moving.

And every state in the Persian Gulf and every front and second line state in NATO against the Russians has already broken ground on mass manufacturing facilities to make Ukrainian drones at scale. So it's entirely possible that two years from now, every ally we have is not going to be buying meaningful military equipment from the United States because it's just not applicable anymore and we won't deliver anymore. We are seeing deglobalization accelerating at the same time the United States is deindustrializing.

If anything, we need to be sprinting in the opposite direction. We're no longer building ourselves out for what is coming. We're just kind of waiting for the world to happen to us now.

To keep it going, you need the United States to maintain the military structure that allows global trade to happen. It never occurred to me that we could have an administration so out of touch with reality that we would do this on purpose. This conflict is going to go down in history as the moment where the United States lost the ability to influence the Eastern Hemisphere.

Jordan Harbinger: To hear how working with Canada and Mexico could help America weather the chaos and what's standing in the way, check out episode 1370 of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Peter Zeihan.