981: Bobby Gunn | The 73-0 Undefeated Bare-Knuckle Boxer

981: Bobby Gunn | The 73-0 Undefeated Bare-Knuckle Boxer

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Before we start this show, I wanna let you know it has some adult themes in it. So no kids in the car for this one. And if you leave the kids in the car and you still play the episode, don't blame me when they have nightmares. Coming

[00:00:10] Bobby Gunn: up next on the Jordan Harbinger show, I had a buddy called George. He's a good guy.

[00:00:15] And we were fighting a fight, so these guys pulled guns out after the fight was over and George pretended he had two guns in his pocket, let him blow snow. These guys thought he had guns and they dropped the guy. This insane, man, you can't make it up. It's like a movie. And we all got away. We're on money too.

[00:00:28] But from saying, I've had all this stuff, I had a gun put to my head.

[00:00:36] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional astronaut, real life pirate, hacker, special operator, music mogul or extreme athlete.

[00:01:04] And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation and cyber warfare, AI crime, and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.

[00:01:20] Just visit Jordan harbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started today on the show, one of the greatest bare knuckle boxers of all time, Bobby Gunn, really the world champion of bare knuckle. And man, what a story. Bobby grew up as an Irish traveler, or a, some people might say, gypsy.

[00:01:37] We don't really say that anymore. Kids. And he was fighting drunk men in parking lots by age 11. Age 11. We'll discuss Bobby's upbringing, his training, fighting in illegal underground matches run by the mob, actually kind of like all the mobs and some close calls where he nearly died. As well as a bit of background in traveler culture and wild tales from Bobby's life.

[00:01:58] As a fighter and beyond. Also in studio today is Staton Bonner, author of Bobby's biography, who spent something like a decade and a half shadowing Bobby for the book and almost died alongside with him and was also in the basement with the leopards chain to the walls. You're gonna hear that story.

[00:02:12] Staton adds color and teases a few stories outta Bobby that I don't think we would've gotten otherwise, and is all in a welcome addition to the conversation. By the way, if you have trouble understanding Bobby, you can go to our YouTube channel. We're gonna have some subtitles ready. I can understand him just fine, but I think if English maybe isn't your first language, it might be a little bit harder.

[00:02:29] He is got a traveler accent. I didn't know that was a thing, but that's a thing. Also, please note graphic depictions of violence in this episode. So if you got little kids in the car, maybe skip to another episode for now and listen to this one later.

[00:02:40] Alright,

[00:02:41] Jordan Harbinger: here we go with Bobby Gunn.

[00:02:47] So listeners of this show know I usually don't cover sports. And this is not exactly a sports story, but the press release, which I seldom even bother reading for the pitch for this, caught my attention because I read Bobby that your dad had you fighting basically just drunk guys in parking lots at age 11.

[00:03:04] And I, I like, that's just, that's one of the craziest things I've ever heard about someone's childhood. Like people like to write about their childhood and they're like, yeah, I worked in my dad's bakery and I got up at 4:00 AM and I'm like, wow, that really sucks when you're 15. Beating up drunk guys in parking lots when you're 11 is an order of magnitude or 10 above that

[00:03:22] Bobby Gunn: maybe.

[00:03:22] How about nine, 10 years old? I was doing that, fighting them guys. And you look at that today, it's like a former child abuse you would say. But if you understand where I come from, my culture, my upbringing, all dogs are dogs. They got canine breed and all cats are fleeing out, right? But there's different breeds of dogs, poodles, swallows and their pit bulls we're pit bulls, the gypsy traveler, people with diapers on.

[00:03:45] I was thrown one twos. I immortalized the fight game and when I say they're drunk, a lot of these guys weren't staggering down. They were, they're a fight and they were laughing. Are you kidding? Fighting this little boy? Yeah, a wee boy sitting like a bus stop. But I wasn't a normal wee boy. You mean obviously Yeah, assassin.

[00:04:00] But, but it prepared me. If you're gonna go swim with sharks, you better train em with sharks than be around with sharks. You just can't start jumping and say you're be around you. I was raised around it, formed into molded by it and unfortunately in my life there was a lot of darkness and growing up it was, it was a tough full world.

[00:04:16] My brother, you know, talk about GTS in New York City and like Baltimore here brother. These gts were a holiday end to compared where I come from just to get out my environment. I climb them walls, a lot of black, there's evilness, drama, hatred, porn is poverty. Just to get out that it's a great achievement in my life.

[00:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: Have you, I never do this, by the way, and I'm not, I swear I'm not this guy. But have you seen Batman? Because you, it's like Bain, right? You know Bain the guy that crawls outta that prison in the desert? And he's like,

[00:04:47] Bobby Gunn: no. Oh, Batman. Yeah. I see. But I know it's, yeah, I'm like Batman and Bain. But the life we had in molded me to where I am into going and become a world champion in boxing.

[00:04:59] Win the bare knuckle world title and fight these fights. But see, when I was fighting these other fights, these underground fights, bear knuckle fights, I was a seasoned fighter at 13 years old. I was champions, national titles. I was seasoned. And I remember one time I went and fought an event and I, and I beat this open class fighter and it was a shock, right?

[00:05:18] Like nobody could believe it. And I'm walking outta the arena. And the reporter wrote, he says, there he is playing with Rubik's Cube, talking to his mom, oblivious to what he just accomplished. Like I was a child. It just was normal. Like the light switch would come on when a fight would come on. It was a whole different person, but.

[00:05:33] My people. We come from fighting is our religion. My grandfather was a champion fighter. My great-grandfather, old black Bob Williamson was a great athlete. It goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. But if I didn't have that push and drive and the hard upbringing for my old father, I wouldn't be able to do what I've done today.

[00:05:54] Jordan Harbinger: Where did you move from? And I know you're a traveler and I'm gonna get into that 'cause that, that is super fascinating, but where are you from, if, is that even a question you can ask a traveler?

[00:06:03] Bobby Gunn: Oh yeah. Yeah. I, all my people come from Scotland, Scottish gypsy travelers and, uh, my dad's side, my mom's an Irish gypsy traveler, so my dad married my mom.

[00:06:12] The scotch and Irish up was like a shocker, like, whoa, wait a minute. The orange, the green a big, big up. And they produced a, a mutant like me. But I mean that I'm, uh, yes. Um, all, both sides of my mom's and my dad's family was all in, you know, that's, we're proud gypsy trout for people. We're proud of our heritage.

[00:06:28] There's good and bad at all people. All the world. Unfortunately, my people are stereotype a different way. A painted with a brush they should be painted with. If you look for good, you'll find good. If you look for bad, you'll find bad, but you've got to know this here. And every racer's good and bad. My people are good people.

[00:06:44] We we're a great talent amongst our people, singing and dancing and fighting and one thing, but they don't show it. Family members can sing better than anybody you hear on the radio, and they won't do it. They won't come out and do it. Just keep a little profile because we're used to being persecuted real bad.

[00:06:59] To this day in England, there's places and bars and pubs. No tankers or pikes allowed. That's, they call the African American men the N word. Now think about that. This day and age 2024, this very day

[00:07:11] Jordan Harbinger: when I lived in the uk, I saw, I heard the word pike and I was like, oh, what's that? It sounds like something from like, you know, the Middle Ages.

[00:07:18] I just assumed it was like a word for night or something like that. I was in a bar and I said to this girl that I worked with, we were lawyers at the time. I said, what's a pike like, really loud. 'cause I was like, I've heard this word and nobody, and somebody told, and John said it. And they were like, sh Right, because we're in a pub, just drinking.

[00:07:34] Yeah. And I didn't realize that this was like a, a slur at all. And I said, what? Pike's a bad word? And like, you know, probably had a couple beers and I was just like, it can't be that bad. It doesn't sound like a bad word. Like the bartender's like looking at me like, is this guy really just like bla like saying that at full volume?

[00:07:51] And there were guys at the back table looking at us and my friend was like, don't just don't just stop talking now. Just stop. We'll just tell you at the office on Monday what this is all about. Oh my gosh. And it turns out, as you mentioned, that is not a word that most polite people just say at full volume when they're having a beer.

[00:08:09] Exactly. And I, this is like a nice pub where lawyers hang out, right? It's like in the Canary Wharf of London. It's like you don't bust that out there. But Travelers, it's such an interesting culture, man, because. First you said gypsy traveler, but I, I read on the internet, which is the arbiter of all truth, that gypsy's not exactly the word that you should use either for this now.

[00:08:30] I mean you can say whatever you want, but it, it's not something I should say

[00:08:33] Bobby Gunn: unfortunately. Like gypsy, we'll take that one better than any other word. But I'm uh, that's what we, what we are the, it goes back to the Roman gypsy people when they venture off to Scotland, Ireland and England. And there's English traveler gypsies and there's Scottish Irish gypsies and Scottish Irish gypsies.

[00:08:47] And that's what my people are. Scotch and Irish, we're all the one people. We got different words we use, we speak whole different languages. I could speak them all, you know, we're good people, good, good hardworking people, a lot of them. And we're very proud of people.

[00:09:02] Jordan Harbinger: So just to give the listeners a little bit of a recap, 'cause I did a little bit of research on this.

[00:09:06] I guess the reason people say gypsies is because people, I don't know, hundreds of years ago, actually thought that. Your people, your tribes or whatever you, you call it, had moved from Egypt. Yeah. That was actually not always the case. They come from India slash Scotland slash Irish.

[00:09:23] Bobby Gunn: It's hard to, hard to say.

[00:09:25] Even the Bible says the lost tribe. You know, we don't know what tribe that is. I mean, I, I do know this here that it is hundreds and hundreds of years of traditions and culture. They're good people, a lot of them, you know, but it's like this here in every race. Latinos, Orientals, you know, the white African race, there's, oh, there's good and bad in every race, but my people, you only hear about the bad.

[00:09:46] Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah,

[00:09:46] Bobby Gunn: but they don't ever talk about the good things they've done. Like Tyson Fury, look at that, look at that done. He's an undisputed world champion. Come back from things that they rid him off, addictions, that he overcome it. And he's top of the world. And you know this, when he won the world heavyweight title in England, the Queen would even honor him

[00:10:02] Jordan Harbinger: because he was a traveler and she thought it was kind of trashy.

[00:10:04] Bobby Gunn: He was asked to leave a restaurant, Jordan, with his wife. Five years ago. Oh my God. Because we, we don't serve your kind here. Honest to God, I've been told that we don't serve. I'm shocked. She told me and my wife in Orlando, Florida, walking to Disney World 10 years ago. My little girl, we know, your people know we, you have to leave the park, sir.

[00:10:21] What, what, where is this? In Orlando, Disney World. They kicked you outta Disney World because Yes they did. We know your people. We do not want using. That's horrible. And I was so embarrassed. Said, just come on. She said, come on right now. Honestly, God, George, you know your stuff as he does too. When you know our people, you know the background.

[00:10:38] A lot of people are oblivious to like, what's he even talking about? But yes, they have said that to me. I've been in world championship fights, brother, and you know why I don't care about a cut nose. I, I'll fight in my nose, hanging off a little, cut my nose, referee jump in and grab me and say, go back to America.

[00:10:52] You gypsy bastard. My hand to gut. Unbelievable brother names like that. It's, it's hurt me all my life. Growing up I was deprived of a lot of things from being a gypsy. You're stamped with birth.

[00:11:07] Jordan Harbinger: This is quite shocking because first of all, half 90% of America is probably like, I think I've heard of gypsies.

[00:11:12] Aren't those the people that read your future in a crystal ball or something like It's very, but like no one's like, oh, kick 'em outta Disneyland. Yeah. Yeah. It's very rare and like I know that traveler culture is somewhat nomadic and there's all these different rules and things like that. There's a specific culture in religion, but I really thought that prejudice against travelers was like something from the fifties and sort of, oh no.

[00:11:36] Had calmed down with the civil rights movement, but apparently not because Mike Tyson only gets kicked outta restaurants because he doesn't pay the bill. Like you're getting kicked outta there. Tyson beer is getting kicked out because he's a traveler. It's a totally different thing. It's unbelievable, man.

[00:11:51] Bobby Gunn: You know something, Jordan, unfortunately in this world, race is an hatred, is something that always be here. You just kinda gotta roll the punches and move around it. All we can do is try our best to not, don't get involved with but to change it. Here's the problem. Okay? If someone's full of hate and they're rotten.

[00:12:05] You're not gonna change them, let let them fade out. Mm-Hmm. Because you only get yourself aggravated. Someone assaults you, you're gonna fool or argue back. Just move on

[00:12:13] Jordan Harbinger: One of your languages. I know you speak like five. One of 'em is called Cunt, which is Scottish Cunt. I thought they, I'm sure there's a joke in here, but it's like cunt because you can't understand what anyone is saying when they speak it.

[00:12:25] This is kind of like, almost like Celtic, sort of og preen English stuff that y'all speak. I mean, it goes way back centuries. It's really interesting.

[00:12:34] Bobby Gunn: I'll give you a laugh about the can. Okay. My boy was training and I'm uh, a gym. He's box. His little guy. He's little baby. The African, the black guy. The old a good guy.

[00:12:44] Remember? I, I'm thinking can to my boy. I says F him Han. That means get him good f him Han. He says, come on Bobby. And I'm walking to the gym. Old man. Wait a minute, Bobby, I thought his name was Fum Han. I'm

[00:12:57] Jordan Harbinger: like, yeah, FUM Han. It's so in man. I should do a whole show about traveler lifestyle because. The history is fascinating.

[00:13:04] The lifestyle is fascinating. I know y'all have a lot of rules and different things that are almost kind of secretive, but let's get back to fighting for now and if we have more time we can talk more about the traveler. It's so freaking interesting to me. Tell me how your dad trained you. I know we sort of covered that you were fighting drunks in parking lots at age 11.

[00:13:21] Were you waking up in the middle of the night to do that? Because I know I'm in bed by like nine 30 on an ideal night. 'cause I got two little kids.

[00:13:28] Bobby Gunn: Yeah. Unfortunately those nights my dad would be probably drinking. We'll be in an old motel or an RV trailer and he pulled back up the lights and be on high beams.

[00:13:36] And that's when you knew, you know, something was wrong. Mom. She says uh, she would let her sleep. Don't do this. Don't do his. Oh, Jackie get him out. Jackie. Jackie, get him out. Come on. And Joel here. That means come here. Ha her the gadget. That means beat up the man. That was it. Go hit him. All about fighting him.

[00:13:54] Oh, you shook his shit. You And then we, boy bus saw busted this one up and this ain like this is the bumper. Like this. Hey old man. He said this word. I know it sounds crazy, but he said to me, but a right. We gadget. I he but a right. We man wouldn't even say that. He took away all the craziness because my dad, he showed me that love.

[00:14:14] It sounds weird to tell you that, but it was my life and I loved my own man and I thank God for his craziness, his train efforts. Jordan was insane. Yeah. At nighttime, a black and white TV set. An old videotape when I'm, I'm talking when everybody else had colored TVs, we were living rough. You know what I mean?

[00:14:31] Yeah. Watch a fight film. Maybe the film be 20 minutes, but him make me watch it for three and four hours and me shadow box and copying the fight film. Pour the swat of me and it would sit like this behind you. Oh, do it that way. And when you got the fight, move. All done. Oh, okay. Barrel. Why we champ boy?

[00:14:50] What do we champ? Say your towel. Write me off now go to your bed. Five in the morning. Come on up, up. Run. Follow the car behind you and beep the horn on your ass. If he wasn't going fast enough and made run 2, 3, 4 mile runs that we bought,

[00:15:06] he, he's following you with a car and honking at you and you're just running,

[00:15:11] Bobby Gunn: you better run.

[00:15:11] Be over. Jordan. I had to run, you know, he so was terrified. You know, he was, he was tough, but get understand he was a, a killer street fighter. I mean, he was rough and tumble. See George, I was fair and square. I, I go, yeah, I'd done rough and tumble too. My more share, rough and tumble, that means anything goes in, in a real street fight.

[00:15:28] I'm not talking about MMAs rules and the street fight. I bite your nose or your right off your head because you're gonna do it to me. There's no rules. Them fights are evil. Oh my god. I did more than I share 'em. I don't like them. I do a fair and square deal, but my father, that was his life. Them fights and he mastered them.

[00:15:45] Moves and moves and how to wow. Do things like even this day, these guys don't do none of the stuff that my dad could do. There's little moves. He, and he was tough that way.

[00:15:55] Jordan Harbinger: Your upbringing, most people can't relate. Right? Your dad would wrap the baseball bat with duct tape and what was it? Like a T-shirt or something.

[00:16:02] Oh yeah. And whack you in the belly with it and ru make you run in front of the car. It's just like, this is such a, uh, I'll say unique way to show love for your son, I suppose. But it makes sense in context of him being also raised like that. And just when you look at your community, the best fighters, the guy with the most respect in a lot of ways.

[00:16:22] And so you're the king of the hill and he wanted that for you. 'cause that was what was important. That's what I'm hearing anyway. Is that accurate?

[00:16:28] Bobby Gunn: He, you asked me to trade about this, you know, we were painting roofs, metal roofs, summertime, spraying roofs, and the buckets weigh 60 pounds, five gallon buckets.

[00:16:37] And he'd make me pick a bucket with my teeth or a rag like that, 60 pounds like that, and then take a bucket on my shoulder. I'll show you tonight,

[00:16:46] Adam Carolla: gosh.

[00:16:46] Bobby Gunn: And do duck walks stuff that ain't normal. But here's why it wasn't normal, because it goes against all normal things that someone could do. Balance your muscles that never been used like that before.

[00:16:58] And truthfully, he's a guru. Okay. I, he's hard trade. I, I would, you wouldn't sell this day and age. The Marines wouldn't take him on. Okay. Nobody only, but yeah, to do that business, he molded me. I was bred and born to be this person. He may be,

[00:17:14] Jordan Harbinger: man. Well, let me back up the truck a little bit 'cause I'm not even sure where to begin with the underground fight scene 'cause it is absolutely nuts.

[00:17:22] So this is bare knuckle boxing and that is different from other kinds of underground street fights, which obviously I had no idea. Before reading the book and talking to you, can you explain a little bit the difference between regular boxing, bare knuckle boxing and you said

[00:17:35] Bobby Gunn: rough and tumble.

[00:17:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, rough and tumble where you can just like rip someone's nose off rough

[00:17:38] Bobby Gunn: and tumble fight.

[00:17:39] That's is just street fight. I mean, I had okay, over a hundred of those, that's, they're not good. But I mean, anything goes, there's no rule book. There's no rule book in a street fight. You know that, that's bad business. But finger in a square means Jordan, let's say me and you're gonna fight Jordan. Now, how much money you putting up Jordan to fight this fight?

[00:17:55] Do you wanna, you wanna tell you're putting five grand? Okay, I gotta match. Five grand. Winner. Take all Jordan, you can't go home. The loss are, yeah.

[00:18:02] Adam Carolla: Mm-Hmm.

[00:18:02] Bobby Gunn: You gotta win that money or you lose everything.

[00:18:04] Adam Carolla: Right

[00:18:05] Bobby Gunn: now in pro boxing, there's a price already guaranteed for the fighter or win lose the draw and it's the managers.

[00:18:11] But these underground fights, that's how they're run. But I'm gonna blow your mind here right now. The underground fights were better. Fair play. What I mean by fair or fair, right down the middle than the professional boxing was pro boxing. The gaming game, I was world champion there. That's a racket, man, that the game ain't the fight game.

[00:18:29] It used to be more corruption and fixed deals. Them the judges and the doctors and referees. I never seen that in bare knuckle boxing. Believe it or not, that underground horror scene at them fights Jordan. I seen judges, attorneys and police officers in with gang members at one night. Everybody's in one harmony, betting on a fight.

[00:18:52] Honest to God, you can't believe this. And then everybody leaves. But these fights happen Jordan, and they happen all the time multi through North America. All three here. And they, and I remember one time I be talking about me saying I was fighting in a up building right next to a grocery store. I mean, there's a blood bath, there's newspapers on the floor trying to blood up.

[00:19:12] Can you imagine somebody walking the next alley, maybe our old grandmother and or granddaughter, oh my God. Oblivious to this world. A wall. That's how close it is. We did one fight, Jordan. There was a fight, a medical fight across street was a police station. They were oblivious to what was going on right across the state.

[00:19:26] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, maybe they knew and they just didn't care. 'cause the chief was over there with the district attorney with a bunch of guys they arrested the week prior who are out on bail.

[00:19:35] Bobby Gunn: It's, it's insane. I mean, it, it happens that the underground circuit was here before I was here. I mean, you go back to the movies like.

[00:19:43] Charles Bronson Hard times. You ever see that movie Charles Bronson Hard Times. He's a bear fighter in the thirties.

[00:19:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, like when I was nine or something. Probably on TV

[00:19:51] Bobby Gunn: fighting All they, they were doing, but it's just been going, going on for years. Even though now the sport is sanctioned. There's the professional bear boxing, but there's still underground world and it's still thriver.

[00:20:02] It'll be here when I'm dead and gone.

[00:20:05] Jordan Harbinger: The book just has tons of stories about you go into a trailer park and then there, there's a fight in there. There's like a parking lot where they set this up and really it's like straight out of a movie and no, it's like a dumb thing for me to say right now, but it seems so dangerous that I just can't, Ima 'cause you, you also mentioned in some of the bare and knuckle matches, if somebody just gets really pissed off or they're losing, they just start breaking the rules and it's like, well, okay.

[00:20:29] I mean, now it's a rough and tumble fight. All right. My bet's already out. It's like you don't have any guarantee that somebody's gonna not try to kill you.

[00:20:36] Bobby Gunn: So, I'm sorry, my, my, my throat. Anyway, I fighting. This guy, this black duty was up for the Jamaica Bloods Gangs of New York. He got drop. I beat him up.

[00:20:44] Big, big guy. He had a long dreadlocks and he bit me in the shoulder. He was already, you know, he already lost the fight legally. He goes, I had him knocked up quite bang, hit him right hand. He was out cold. That was it. Anyway, get him up. Get him up, get him up. They wanna go again. I didn't know what this mental See go again.

[00:20:59] That now it went from Fairness square to Rough and Tumble. You understand how he turned on me? He said, why come me? Yeah. How was doing the Fair Square when he comes in? He bites me right there. So I, I beat him back. I should've done, but I had to bite him back anyway, so it ended up pretty quick. But anyways, fair play to him though.

[00:21:13] My guys were all there, all the guys in New York. I thought a be riot was gonna happen, but it slowed down the, I said, come on, Powell, shake hands. I shook his hand and that was it. But I had, yes, I've had guns put on my head. And that's the God, that was the one I really thought I was dead. Geez,

[00:21:28] Jordan Harbinger: I have heard that bare knuckle strikes penetrate deeper.

[00:21:32] So you have to hit less hard because you don't wanna break your hand, first of all. So it's almost like

[00:21:36] Bobby Gunn: 100%

[00:21:37] Jordan Harbinger: with regular boxing. You just basically like torture somebody because you're beating them with this pad at 80% and you hit 'em a hundred times.

[00:21:45] Bobby Gunn: You're very entitled there. That's what I've been telling people for years.

[00:21:47] Honest to God. You take my hand on pro box and you wrap it Now with gauze and tape, it's like a cast. You put that little 10 ounce glove on like this and you put that glove and they call cutting the glove. They don't tell you it's not illegally. They pull back the glove like this, they squeeze it and they take the laces.

[00:22:01] They make that leather tighter. Now it's was you as hard as you can? Mm. That's more damage to the head and the brain. Now take that glove all the way to naked in. I'm not gonna hit as hard. I gotta pick my shots. B, 40% power, maybe 50. I don't. Very rare hit somebody hard or least his stomach. BI knocked mini, my body shot out.

[00:22:22] I drop them. But. I don't wanna hurt my hands if I don't have to. But boxing I think is way more dangerous than Uck fighting. And here's a fact for you, my brother and Uck boxing, I think there's only been two fighters been actually killed that they can count for in life. Even not everyone seem to, what?

[00:22:38] Boxing orders it? 25, 30 fighters a year die. MMA fighters think about, that's a lot of numbers

[00:22:43] Jordan Harbinger: from brain damage and stuff like that. Yeah, that's the thing is like over time, if you get hit a few, well, it's never good to get knocked out by getting punched in the face or whatever. That's never good. But I mean, we all saw what happened to Muhammad Ali, right?

[00:22:56] I mean that was, we don't need more of that. That was brutal.

[00:22:59] Bobby Gunn: See, I was raised the old school too, how to try to roll the punches, the art of fighting. And I had the best trainers, my dad, but I trained with the greatest trainers ever lived. And I took everything that asked me how to slip and roll a punch.

[00:23:13] And that's what saved me at the game of being able to do that.

[00:23:17] Jordan Harbinger: That makes sense, right? So even if you're like, oh, I'm not gonna be able to stop this hit, I at least I'm not gonna let it connect. Really? Well,

[00:23:23] Bobby Gunn: believe me, I mean, I've been in some good shots. Don't be wrong that I don't, but I mean, 90% of fights I'm protected.

[00:23:28] I I roll out a roll. See, your body is a, this your whole body, your shoulder, the hand and bare knuckle boxing. I can do this. I catch, see, see the whole punch, right? I'll catch here Jordan. I'll catch here. So BBB and boxing. I can't do that 'cause my hand is kind of tied up of, of the glove and the hand wraps.

[00:23:49] I can't really protect myself. Like I can't bear knuckle boxing. It's a different world. It's a different world. I seem bear knuckle fighters, Jordan. Knockout world contenders and boxing champions at a underground street fight.

[00:24:00] Jordan Harbinger: I believe that because they're used to being able to take a few punches or get lined up.

[00:24:05] But if you just take one bare knuckle punch, I saw a video of you that you texted me where that really big dude, you kind of just like tapped him in the eye. It didn't even look like it was that hard. You told me later it wasn't that hard 'cause you didn't wanna blind the dude. And he went down, he was like, squealing like a pig.

[00:24:20] And I was like, oh man, that definitely hurt a lot. And that was the end of the fight. He says, I

[00:24:24] Bobby Gunn: sock it right there, Jordan. I, uh, you take, you see my hand here, right? Most boxers, they punch like that bare knuckle. I'll take these two knuckles right here,

[00:24:35] Jordan Harbinger: the bottom two knuckles. I'll

[00:24:36] Bobby Gunn: sit back and I'll just turn it boom boom.

[00:24:39] And that rule sharp pop right in the eye. His eye socket broke right there. Excruciating pain. That's what happened to the P fell. It went down. And I felt bad for him, but you know, I did what I did. I mean, that's what,

[00:24:49] Jordan Harbinger: that's the sport.

[00:24:50] Bobby Gunn: I had to do it. And I had to win because. I had to try to help my family the best I can.

[00:24:55] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, of course. I think it was probably one of the most humane things that I'd seen. It certainly looked like after that he was done. You didn't kick him in the head or anything like that. I mean, that was the end of the fight and he went home and he patched himself up. But yeah, he probably doesn't have brain damage it.

[00:25:11] He wasn't knocked out. He was just hurt. I'd rather break my eye socket than get smashed in the head 48 times during a fight that I maybe won.

[00:25:17] Bobby Gunn: You know, unfortunately though, a lot of these fighters, I, if I see their hurt and bear, I go, I could do a lot more damage, a lot more, but I don't. I, it's a body. I like to, I don't wanna hurt no one.

[00:25:29] I don't have to. But there was some fights I was in and I fought people that they were bad evil bastard. They tried to do me in, I mean, a sinister agenda they have from the beginning. Some people are rotten. I never had that. A proper fighting man. Right? A proper fight man is a good man. It's a heart, a proper fight, man.

[00:25:48] Ain't a bully. I'm a bully slayer. I don't like bullies. If I have a dollar in my pocket, I'll give it to you. I think, Michelle, I can put on your your goal. That's how I am a man. 'cause God gives to those who give, but a bully. If you look at their life, they're constantly targeting someone, putting someone down because they're not.

[00:26:06] They're jealous of someone and they pretend to be a bully and a good person. And I've dealt with a lot of 'em my life. Sometimes I fought some bullies, and they're the ones that you know that they really deserve a good beating.

[00:26:21] Jordan Harbinger: You are listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Bobby Gunn. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by StoryWorth. My mom is 82, and despite her quiet demeanor, she has some incredible adventures from her youth. When she was young, she went to Japan. She lived there for a while.

[00:26:36] She worked in Australia back when women basically didn't travel much at all. We discovered these captivating stories through StoryWorth, which sends her thought provoking questions each week like, Hey, what's the most valuable lesson you've learned in your life? Or, tell me about a time you really felt proud of yourself.

[00:26:50] We help select these questions, aiming to bring out rich, engaging stories, and the process is really simple. My mom replies to these emails with stories long or short, without any stress. I received these responses throughout the year, reliving known stories and hearing new ones for the first time each a hidden gem.

[00:27:05] And after a year, StoryWorth compiles all the narratives and photos into a beautiful keepsake hardcover book, something our family can cherish for generations. We created one last year and display it prominently as both a conversation starter and kind of a nostalgic treasure. StoryWorth isn't just a gift, it's a lasting legacy celebrated by families and highly rated with over 25,005 star reviews on Trustpilot.

[00:27:25] I think this is a great gift.

[00:27:27] Jen Harbinger: Give all the moms in your life a unique, heartfelt gift you'll all cherish for years. StoryWorth. Right now, save $10 on your first purchase when you go to storyworth.com/jordan. That's storyworth.com/jordan to save $10 on your first purchase.

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[00:28:36] Ah, this would've saved us a ton of time and money.

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[00:28:50] Jordan Harbinger: If you're wondering how I managed to book all these amazing folks for the show, all these authors, thinkers, creators, bare knuckle boxers every single week, it's because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust, and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over@sixminutenetworking.com.

[00:29:04] This course is about improving your relationship building skills. It is not cheesy or awkward. It is not cringy. It is down to earth, just practical exercises that are gonna make you a better connector, a better colleague, a better friend, and a better peer. Six minutes a day is all it takes, and many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course.

[00:29:21] So come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course@sixminutenetworking.com. Now back to Bobby Gunn. It must be. I don't know if this is the right way to phrase it. It probably feels pretty good to hit a real bastard in the phase as opposed to a guy who's just trying to feed his family.

[00:29:39] Like it's a totally different feeling. I love, I

[00:29:41] Bobby Gunn: love you.

[00:29:45] Yeah, it feels good. Listen to me. Here's the deal. Some of them are, are bad and I'm, I told those stories. Same me about before. One time I fought this guy, some of these guys fighting underground. They're good people, Jordan. They're fighting for their families. Yeah. You know, and Mm-Hmm. I fought this guy one time and he come up with a fight.

[00:30:03] He was like a big old room like this in we boxing, fighting. He put five grand to fight. I put five grand. I was up with five or 10 grand and winner take all. And he's kid be a good old goal. He's fighting me. He runs over the window, looks at the window, he comes back to me, he's fighting me. And he does it three or four times.

[00:30:19] And all I'm thinking, I said, I, I hope this badge will kinda like I, I gang downstairs. I come in and raid us here. Try to rob us. Anyways, so Jordan, he looks at the window again. He comes to me. I hit him, right? And boom, he knocked out. He gets up and he was crying. Jordan, I don't mean crying like whimper.

[00:30:35] Tears running in his eyes like that. And I walked out. He had three babies in the car. Mm. He didn't have the money. I get nobody to watch. He borrowed the money to fight me. He really thought he was gonna win. I was getting, listen, that game enough. Now he come like a proper man in the fight. You know? He thought he was gonna win.

[00:30:50] So I give him back his money.

[00:30:51] Oh wow.

[00:30:51] Bobby Gunn: I was heartbroken. I feel bad for him. What I'm trying to say to you is that these guys are in the fight game. They're fighting for what the better life. Their kids. And there's a lot of heartbreaks in America and every other world. There's things going on behind people's, their oblivious man.

[00:31:06] Mm-Hmm. Like this office goes right now, there might be a bird knuckle flight next door we don't even know about. Yeah. She's, oh no. But it's there and everybody in there are trying to benefit for something. You know? It is all about money. That's all it's about to make a better life for everybody.

[00:31:20] Jordan Harbinger: It's a bit of a sad state of affairs where somebody who has kids and can't afford to have somebody watch them, has to borrow money to go fight and put their body up against, you know, somebody like you.

[00:31:31] Because if they don't, they're not gonna be able to pay for the food that, or their rent or whatever like that is. Yeah. I wonder, how do you know if you are going into some basement in the Bronx, how do you know you're not walking into like a trap where they're gonna rob you or they're gonna say, you throw this next fight or we're gonna shoot you right now?

[00:31:49] Like, I don't, I don't know. I mean, you're dealing with underworld stuff, right?

[00:31:53] Bobby Gunn: Well listen, okay. I go as the fight this guy, right? And I swear to God, Jordan, I thought he had a sweater on, he walks from, is that Harry? That George Amo? I thought he had a sweater on. Okay. Big bastard was God. He smelled too. Oh God.

[00:32:05] Oof. Must have been the hair of the old idol, what it was. But anyway, a lawnmower, they, George should have a lawn mower to clean the album before he fought me. But anyways, we're fighting and he's doing a lot of things he shouldn't do. 'cause. I think it was a Super Bowl. Some kinda word they used in Russian.

[00:32:17] It's like

[00:32:17] Jordan Harbinger: Sambo. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:19] Bobby Gunn: So anyway, he slammed me down the ground. I get so from banging away. Anyway, I hit some, but long story short, back his eye come outta his head here when I was hanging just like that. The eye sock busted. Oh he, he goes down in the scru pain. The kid, his handler, long story short, gets to get on my head of my story.

[00:32:35] The kid flip it on on him? No, he's down for, well he's down. He's count him out. Just because the fight's over.

[00:32:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:32:41] Bobby Gunn: They wouldn't even count him out. What? They finally is done and the kid puts a gun to my head now, just so you know, walking into this place was in New York, like a mansion. They had pet leopards.

[00:32:53] Jordan. What? Pet Leopards changed the wall. It was insane that, so I said, you can't understand this pal. They were doing things they shouldn't be doing. It was insane, brother. Clearly there mean no authorities around us all. Kidding. Millionaire people too. Yeah. Mafia people. I don't wanna mention it, but anyways, long story short.

[00:33:09] The old man in the background, I guess he was a hit, he would put that down. He says, pay that boy's money.

[00:33:15] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

[00:33:16] Bobby Gunn: Honest to God. And I'm walking into that room. Jordan, my good friend Mike Miles with me, he told you, he says, Irish are, Jills is carved now. That means we're, we're dead and Irish can are Jills his carves.

[00:33:29] And I said, yeah, yeah. Walking out Jordan anymore. I said, lights out, bang. I'm shot. I get to the old truck with the money and I'm driving. That was pretty well the end of it for me. I got outta that world. I was sort of probably my last on a round fight. Was it? Yeah. It was my last fight. I asked, you know, I said, listen, I I've been champ.

[00:33:46] I've been in a champion underground for 11 years. I beat everybody. Yeah. Everybody. They brung in front of me. The underground association, the underground fights, the toughest guys they wanna fight Oriental, Puerto Ricans and African. All. I beat everybody. They brung in front of me for 11 years. I said, okay, get out on good means.

[00:34:03] You can walk away. No problem. I said, I'm gonna tell my story. Yeah. I said, okay. God bless you. Done more than we can ever imagine. I shook hands. I give him all a hug. I wanted to wait for that world because Jordan, I'm telling you my pal, I thought I was gonna get killed that day.

[00:34:14] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I mean, once people have pets that usually run free in the jungle, you know, you're with some cartel mafia guys for sure.

[00:34:21] Like normal people don't keep lions. You saw that Netflix, none of those people are saying. Right,

[00:34:29] right. There should have been a, a, a, a red flag from right there. I walked like that didn't have been bulldog. I mean,

[00:34:35] Jordan Harbinger: no, like, all right, fine. I might fight dudes in trailer parks and parking lots, but you got a leopard chain to the wall.

[00:34:39] I, I'm outta here. This is just crazy. No, some of the moves, man, especially in the, the street fight stuff's just crazy. I mean, you talk about ripping off ears. The book Staton does a very good job of going into detail about how you put your thumbs in someone's mouth to rip their face open. I mean, it's gross man.

[00:34:57] Bobby Gunn: My dad taught me that.

[00:34:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, he go

[00:34:58] Bobby Gunn: a fish hook. Yuck. I watched my old man do that to a man one time.

[00:35:02] Jordan Harbinger: That's gotta keep you up at night.

[00:35:04] Bobby Gunn: Oh my god. The man's, the man's lips. To his ears,

[00:35:07] Jordan Harbinger: but, okay, so it goes without saying though, man, this is not usually legal at all. Maybe there's some places where it is.

[00:35:13] Maybe you go to Dubai and they're like, okay, it's fine. But I assume people pay what a cover to watch? Or do you have to gamble if you go in? Like how does that work?

[00:35:22] Bobby Gunn: Well, underground fights are, yeah, they're, you're not supposed to have them. Right. But they pay usually about a hundred bucks at the door, each person to come to the door.

[00:35:28] Okay. Now I've had fights where there's, there's 500 people in there, maybe more. That's the thing with that. That's a big gate. Yeah. And then plus the money the fighter's putting on and whoever's backing the fighter. You know what group family is backed? The fighter, they usually put the how where Jordan, if I'm being backed by a group of family, I put down 50 grand and he put 50 grand out.

[00:35:48] The truth is, it is, I probably get 20 out of that. Okay. You understand? Because they're, remember they're still getting a massive money. They're getting that full end too. Remember it's winner take all right? So you gotta win. You gotta win to come home, right?

[00:36:04] Jordan Harbinger: So a lot of the gangs and gambling is all obviously mafia A affiliated, I mean, you're talking about Chinatown.

[00:36:10] Is this in the nineties? Tell me what it's like with the different mafias and different culture, right? Like you, you kind of mentioned the triads and the yoku are just totally quiet, which is really creepy somehow during an underground fight, unless they're clapping.

[00:36:22] Bobby Gunn: But yeah, Jordan, listen though again, I had a couple institutes for all I told you.

[00:36:27] A couple situations took out I hang, went crazy. But that really ain't a lot for consider how many fights I've had. The all them people that are stereotype all bad kill you. They were more better, nicer to you. They give you your money. The professional boxing world, pal is more corrupted,

[00:36:43] Jordan Harbinger: I believe that

[00:36:44] Bobby Gunn: way more than the underground world.

[00:36:46] And that's a fact. So I was trying to say all these bad guys, they show that these killers and mob, they're good men, probably they do you a favor, we'll give you something you need. Who ask these, the guys in the boxer world wouldn't give you a quarter and you put your life on and fight for them. Overall, the under underworld was a better world than the legal world for boxing, I think.

[00:37:07] But the pros and cons and everything, there's some crazy situation I was in. But in general, I'm saying to you the situation I was in bad, the good situation to overshadow that it was gonna be, I had so many times I was in places that they could've killed me, Jordan. They could've. Yeah. And they took it on the chin, but they took it on the chin.

[00:37:23] One man by myself, many fights. I walked in by myself, Jordan, no one by me. I walked in by myself, 300 men in that room. And then I did a fight. I walked in proud and I walked out proud. I'm a man. See a lot of the, the women and my, my people, the gypsy drivers, they love, uh, Dalton dolls, they call 'em. And the old plates, like my mother had a fortune, like $10,000 of little figurines and they were worth a lot of money.

[00:37:47] Today, I wish I had baby worth a hundred grand, but I, I sold 'em years ago. But mom, she loved this and, and mom was dying. She got sick. In Canada. She fell. Jordan, a young woman going to the bingo and she come outta the bingo and she went to stop me some donuts to coffee to come home to dad and me. You know, we didn't know that we had no cell phones back then.

[00:38:05] This is the late eighties, you know, end of my, she fell in black ice when she fell. She hit her head in the ground. She laid there. Oh man. You ever see somebody in the movie like those stick their tongue on a cold piece of metal and sticks? Well, her wee face stuck to the ice. Oh man. She broke her hip and everything.

[00:38:21] She couldn't get up. It was roaring and screaming for be an hour laying there screaming. Finally they come and they put hot water, got her face, was all, all burnt and they give my mother bad blood. Jordan, they didn't screen it right? Oh no. It went like a cancer went out. Her body, she fought hard but we're in America now and I'm getting her the best medical help I can get her in Pittsburgh.

[00:38:43] All of her stuff was in the, the van. I had a van. I went down to the box, the trail, but Lawsuit Street. Sure there was, I got fight going on and I. I had a bare knuckle fight to help my mom put up. Mom. I was scared him up was this story. They broke the van. Who

[00:38:57] Stayton Bonner: you tell, well, just to finish, just to finish the Pittsburgh story, um, Bobby's mother was in the hospital.

[00:39:04] Bobby needed more money to help pay for her surgery. He pretended to have the money. He was training in a boxing gym. The fighter saw his promise, asked him, Hey, are you interested in making some cash in an underground fight tonight? He came back, pretended to have the money in a duffle bag. It wasn't, he didn't have it all.

[00:39:21] They brought in a big guy and Bobby beat him and took the cash and was able to help give it to his mom. That Booker Johnny Elli the answer to segue, ah, then started booking gun in more fights and said, Hey, you're good at this. And it was an underground network. Look, in all my years as a journalist, this is the most amazing story I've ever come across.

[00:39:42] Bobby's a true underdog tale, a real life rocky. I think what's incredible though, he's a guy who's fighting for his family and when I met him initially in 2012, he was fighting to put his 7-year-old daughter through private school. I went with them, I saw him drop her off, and what really struck me, Jordan, was he said, you know, I'm not as scared about these fights.

[00:40:03] The one thing that scares me the most. So when I drop off my daughter, Charlene, her friends and parents will find out what I do and judge her for it. Sure.

[00:40:11] Bobby Gunn: Yeah.

[00:40:12] Stayton Bonner: I thought that was really telling and powerful. But the underground circuit has been around, as I detail for hundreds of years. It's pretty fascinating.

[00:40:22] If you look into the history of the United States, going back to the 18th century, Tom Molino, an enslaved person in Virginia, won so much money for his master in plantation bouts that he won his freedom, huh? And went to New York, worked as a dock worker, and then traveled across to England and and won fame fighting overseas.

[00:40:43] You have stories of various underground fighters. Most famously John L. Sullivan, who is the classic pistachio strongman. If you think about this, he was the LeBron of the 18 hundreds. I mean, he was the son. It's always been a sport for people who are in the most dire circumstances to raise themselves up.

[00:41:04] He was the son of an Irish immigrant plumber, was walking by a storefront in Boston, saw an ad for anyone to come in and take this guy down. He took him down, then became extremely famous across the world. Met Teddy Roosevelt later in life, traveled in, uh, the Wild West Circuit under, uh, wild Bill Cock. His breakfast was oysters and whiskey,

[00:41:25] Jordan Harbinger: very Irish

[00:41:26] Stayton Bonner: and you know, it had like these really famous fights that were covered.

[00:41:30] Yeah, by national news in the 18 hundreds. With the rise of religion and social mores and especially the gambling, the gambling's always been central to bare knuckle boxing. I see. It really was deemed unsavory. This is not correct with our Victorian values and that's when you saw with John L. Sullivan. He famously beat Jake Kra, whose descendant later actually, uh, was a Navy Seal and ran NATO and would cite his heritage and bare knuckle boxing as a testament to his toughness.

[00:42:00] Sullivan beat reign in a fight in the late 18 hundreds, uh, was covered around the world, but got such backlash. Authorities tried to chase him and, and rest him. Boxing then came up in its place, you know, again, it's more savory to watch, but it's 10 times. The amount of damage to the brain. A good analogy is rugby versus NFL.

[00:42:24] We can all watch NFL with our kids on Sunday afternoon. You don't see blood much. It's pretty sanitary. But those guys can hit each other with extreme amounts of velocity impact and obviously do serious concussion damage. Rugby by comparison, just like bare knuckle, barely any pads. It's bloody skin on skin is bloody.

[00:42:44] But those guys studies show don't suffer the same amount of I wonder, CTE damage and early studies so far in bare knuckle boxing, especially with the legal rise of it do show. Look, none of this is safe obviously, right? This is violent. But yeah, it does show so far, uh, less concussive damage. And I think what's interesting about the underground though, and what was fascinating, Bobby was saying he was coming up in this in the eighties, nineties, early aughts, no cell phones.

[00:43:10] When I first met him, I went to Ike and Randy's gym in Patterson, New Jersey. Walk through a chain. This is not Bally's, you know, this is not Equinox,

[00:43:17] Jordan Harbinger: you know? Yeah, I was gonna say that sounds like a place where you better know somebody.

[00:43:21] Stayton Bonner: Like, I mean, I was walking through a chain link fence past a couple of pit bulls down in, through metal doors.

[00:43:28] This low slung cramp space used to be an autobody shop, and there was an old landline phone in Ike and Randy's gym and Patterson about the size of a toaster. And that's where Bobby would get called. So Bobby would come into the gym and, you know, be like, yo Bob, someone let you a message. It would be tacked on a wall gun, it'd be a phone number.

[00:43:47] And that's where the Russian mob would call him. The Latin Kings, the Jamaicans, the Irish. Everybody knew sooner or later, Bobby Gunn's gonna show up at this gym. And that's, and you told me you one time met the Russian mobsters that came to Starbucks nearby to, to work out a deal, to fight in their, in their mansion fight.

[00:44:04] Bobby Gunn: Oh God. Yeah. It was, it was insane. That little phone was the main thing. Everything. Movie Rocky. How I call, yo, call Me. It was, it was weird. That's that little phone. That's where all the big fights come from. Word of mouth, secret society, nobody rats, one other. They're out. They all wanna see it. No, that makes sense.

[00:44:19] So that's why they're not telling the wrong people about it, because they're telling the good people. They all want to come and see it. But let me ask you a question. Yeah. It's like the forbidden fruit. Everybody's attracted to see bare fist fighting mostly they wanna watch that more than glove. It shouldn't be done.

[00:44:32] It, it's forbidden and attracts them and that's the good selling point to it. You know what I mean? Sure. Now it's sanctioned that, but to me it was just a, the truest form of combat.

[00:44:42] Stayton Bonner: My first fight, I was working as a writer at GQ and met Bobby Gunn and he was across the river in New Jersey and I said, I want to go to a fight.

[00:44:52] I get a text. It just was an address. Uh, I left my office in Manhattan, you know, right there in, in Times Square. Went to the address, was then texted again to another address. None of these locales are given in the book. That was a deal. But I show up to basically a parking lot. It's lightly raining. Yeah.

[00:45:11] Bobby Gunn walks out in a black sleeve t-shirt with a baseball bat. All righty. Slung across his shoulder. And then David Feldman, who is now the founder of uh, bare Knuckle Fighting Championship and was a long time partner and promoter with Bobby in underground fights, basically came up and said, if I ever put his name in anything connected with this, yeah.

[00:45:30] I'd never write again 'cause it was illegal. Sure. I saw a Hell's Angel and a marine fight in a back room of an abandoned gym. Okay. And it was the sound, it was the sound of skin on skin. It's just this, yeah. It's just this wet slap. It's visceral. And the person next to me turned to me and said, you know, this shit's cool.

[00:45:49] 'cause it's illegal. It was the whole aura and essence and, and going to these fights. The fights weren't typically long. It was wild and that that was my introduction to the underworld.

[00:45:59] Bobby Gunn: You have to see Jordan in person to really appreciate, well the film was good, but that person is that atmosphere that, that sound.

[00:46:06] Jordan Harbinger: I would love to see something like this in person. I'm gonna text Staton after this and be like, all right, next time I go to New York, I'm gonna go to Chinatown with a pack of cigarettes and some aviator shades and watch, uh, one of these matches. The visceral thing I totally get right, like you ever see one of those videos online where somebody falls and their head hits the pavement and you just know that's a head hitting pavement.

[00:46:27] I also understand the appeal of looking at something and seeing that it's illegal. I will say I went to a cock fight in the Philippines and it was really gross. 'cause they di I didn't know they died. Yeah, I thought it was just like, I don't know what, I thought that was a little gross 'cause it was animal abuse.

[00:46:42] I wasn't really down for that. But there is a thrill of being doing something like that's just kind of like, Hey, this is illegal, but everybody here is doing it for a reason. Nobody's being forced into it. I guess. Although it's arguable, right? If the guy who's got three kids in the backseat of his car is really doing this instead of doing construction willingly, like, I don't know.

[00:47:01] Bobby Gunn: Yeah. You know what it is too, Jordan, sometimes somebody just can't get a break. Somebody just can't get a job. Right? They have to go through hard times and, and what happens is, well, they'll get a job next week, but next week, any opinion for today is food for the kids.

[00:47:13] Jordan Harbinger: I've read in the book that your mom is also no stranger to beating some ass as well.

[00:47:19] There's an anecdote where she filled socks with pennies and then went and beat some Oh yeah. Woman. And she was

[00:47:25] Bobby Gunn: beautiful too. She look at a movie star. They call the Irish princess. You would never know. I mean, honest to God there Bishop, my mouth, my mother, like, wow, I never got the, you know what I mean?

[00:47:33] But mom was beautiful. She was a proper woman, A pure travel womans.

[00:47:38] Jordan Harbinger: It's such a, a heartwarming story in which is a weird word to use for somebody who grows up in bare knuckle underground fights, knocking people's eyes out. But it's a, Staton did a really, really good job of telling your life story in, I mean, in my humble opinion, oh, Jordan,

[00:47:53] Bobby Gunn: not only that, he put his life in a line.

[00:47:55] Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah. Hanging out with you with the leopards chain to the wall.

[00:47:58] Bobby Gunn: One time where you were interviewed. Me, one, they wanted to rob his cameras, the guys around me, I said, you can't do that. I said, no, that's my, we palace. You can't do that. Well who get there's free. The man will take I, they're not taking nothing, brother.

[00:48:10] Game enough. Now there's a man right here. Honestly, he did a hell of a thing going. He put himself in the line, Jordan, and he did it because he know that there's a good people that understand the truth about it's going on in the world, but they do what you done, brother. It's quite a journey, wasn't it?

[00:48:23] Stayton Bonner: Yeah. Well, I mean I was definitely nervous at times. I bet. It was fascinating. And honestly, seeing Bobby, you know, the other side of the traveler world, as he mentioned earlier, is their devotion to religion. So Bobby, you know, no drinking, no smoking, no tattoos would lie, prostrate on the ground in prayer before fights a father putting his daughter through private school with the money.

[00:48:49] He's just a good guy. And you know, that was really fascinating to me, Jordan is, you know, the deeper I went with Bobby into this world, who would go into these dangerous places, who would endure these savage fights. But at the end of the day, he was a person with a good heart, you know, a father. Yeah. And doing it for the right intentions and a really gentle guy.

[00:49:10] I mean, he's got his little, his little dog Max.

[00:49:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:49:13] Stayton Bonner: You know here today that he carries around them. Bobby has a big heart. And for somebody to see someone go through the kind of tribulations he has in his life and to still have that. Humanity that at this core, uh, was really compelling.

[00:49:26] Jordan Harbinger: Can I ask how your relationship was with your dad?

[00:49:29] Because it sounds like a tough upbringing, but it also sounds like he was trying to do right by you, or for you In some ways it's hard to tell.

[00:49:36] Bobby Gunn: He tried. I, my god, love him. My old man was a good man. My old man could have been a millionaire if he could've done things differently in life. But his life was a hard upbringing.

[00:49:47] He's quite a bad. I remember one time we were doing a job at work and paying a big old farm, pining a farm, and, and I guess the young farmer, somebody else done a bad job, but we got the blame for, right? So he pulled, pull over like this. I'll never forget it. The old man was driving. He had, he had a cigar in his belt, Jordan, and he had a staler hat.

[00:50:03] You look, you look weird like a white staler hat. Something you see in a Walmart. He's driving. I'll never forget, pull over this big guy. Big, I mean weird, like, you know, crazy farmers like big, mostly throw bells of hay up. His big guy's. All I remember like hacksaw Jim Duggan, right? Yeah. Must suspenders the

[00:50:16] bush whackers.

[00:50:17] Oh, now

[00:50:18] Bobby Gunn: the only man, just one minute son. He gets out and by day he points his finger at my father. He throws a punch. My father and misses it. No, he's got a cigar in his mouth, Jordan. Okay. Wrist. He jumps up in the air. Something you don heard of in the air kicks to a chest. Boom. Knocks him back. Rolls back with a cigar, gets the top and mounts him.

[00:50:35] Boom, boom, boom. This one is knocked out cold on bumper like this. I can't believe it. He walks back. The truck cigar never left his mouth. He still smoke. He goes, your old man still got a Don kid. I, that's my dad. That's why he stupid to me. Different ways. I mean, that's my old man.

[00:50:50] Stayton Bonner: Bobby Tellman. But I mean, your dad is not done fighting.

[00:50:53] He's still fighting. He's almost 70. Bobby will have to go age eight years old. He wasn't 82. I'm sorry. Oh wow. And you will, uh, but the phone, you'll have to ring it once. Hang up. Can you explain that situation? Only ring

[00:51:03] Bobby Gunn: hang up. Wait five seconds. Come back. Then he might answer because people are looking for him, so he knows.

[00:51:09] I was like, why this

[00:51:10] Jordan Harbinger: all happening now? Makes sense.

[00:51:11] Bobby Gunn: Jordan. I'm sitting, I, I swear to God, this is eight, eight years ago. I was sitting at his Thanksgiving, right phone call. Your dad's acting awful, silly. He attacked the man here last day. I went, what he attacked? Said No, this should be a reverse rule. He should be, it should be me in trouble.

[00:51:24] That might, I said, okay. What? He attacked the guy at the bar. He bit the man's neck, a vampire and hit the man right hand. I said, dad, what? Oh, I'm just pour what you think the next, the morning pour is an angel. I was just having a drink. Watch the hockey game. The man attacked me son. The truth was okay. He attacked the man like a savage animal the man was being part with.

[00:51:42] But what I'm saying to you, he would throw down, I watched my grandfather, my Grandpa Jim gym, he was 84 years old. In front of the old hotel, the Ashbury Hotel, the dirty old hotel, Niagara Falls. A lot of the travelers will go there and stay there. Rough old hotel, I mean, Pam's, prostitution, all drug, right?

[00:52:00] Oblivious to that world. We just didn't bother it. But we knew it was there. Our trailer was parked right there and one night the old man went, what do you do? Grab He, there's somebody out there trying to get in my trailer. I look at, he runs out the old man and there's a young guy and he hits all right hand, bang, bang, let's knocked him cold.

[00:52:15] The old man can fight, put him out, go the police, come down. He did a citizen arrest. The older guy, 'cause the old man had a bit of money in the trailer. I think he's scared he steal, but yeah, he, I'd said, buddy, he'd throw down a heartbeat. Fighting to us is bred into us

[00:52:27] Stayton Bonner: in traveler culture. Jordan, it was interesting, your ability to fight and defend your family name.

[00:52:33] It's a sense of honor in a culture where there's not always a lot of material. Home wealth, that kind of thing. 'cause it's an itinerant lifestyle. Your ability to fight is representative of your family, of your clan, of your lineage. I thought it was interesting. Bobby told me a story. It's in the book about how you beat up a person in a fight.

[00:52:53] Who? I think your father? No, your grandfather. Grandfather. Your grandfather. You wanna

[00:52:57] Bobby Gunn: tell that story? It was, it was my dad. And you were a kid, Tampa, Florida, right? No. My grandfather before that beat a man called John R. Robinson. He come to my grandfather's door. Grandpa was 60 or 59 or six years old, and John r was, but 23 years old.

[00:53:10] He big up and come, wanted to be a fighter. So two guys run the fight by grandpa. Actually, the guys that come with him were like, they should have done that. They come looking for the old man. The old man had a name. You understand? That was wrong. You don't challenge the man that old the fight, you know? So he comes over, step out, Jim, I wanna fight you right now.

[00:53:24] My uncle told me the story. He's right there. He says, okay. He says, let me finish my cup of tea. Not, not a bit worried at all. Just aggravated. I'll finish my tea. No problem. Close that door. Jason Dean, he told my granny, get me my trads out. That means your shoes trads. She's always out these old box of shoes.

[00:53:39] He puts 'em on. He walks to outside and I mean, he blistered this one. He put 'em like he looked. He Grandpa Jim punched a piss right out, right? Put him bullet bitch. Now stop there. That happened. Grandpa beat him. An old man. That man grandpa beat was a lot younger than grandpa. Now my dad in 1984 were in Florida.

[00:53:59] Uh, Billy Robinson, they call him that Billy Robinson was this man's son. My grandpa beat, you know, grandpa beat the man, John R. Robinson. He had a boy called Billy. He groomed them and made him. Dad was sitting around this one, come to his trailer camp, few drinks, looking at a little bit of trouble. Well, my father slaughtered him.

[00:54:15] I mean, dad just butchered him bad. I mean, put a bad beating on him, but become looking for it. He was pretty degrading beating dad given him, okay? And went back to his trailer in front of the man's wife too. Just is degraded in front of the family. But anyway, so at that four o'clock, when we call us up, grandpa.

[00:54:27] In Canada. Oh yeah. Who just stiffen? Abby's doctor. I says, why Dad beat Robs Right, right. Put him on the football. Here's your granny son. Did you get him good? Oh good. He says good. He just, it's insane. I remember that was it. But my, that's the God's truth. I said God's truth. I, I said things happen. My God, man.

[00:54:45] Stayton Bonner: And you know your, your son told me he watches the movie 300 a lot and he said, I really identified with the Spartans. He's like, that's just our culture. We are just, a lot of people wouldn't understand it, but I wouldn't have it any other way. And that's true. And there's a story in the book. There's a lot of crazy fight stories, but maybe one of the most crushing stories in the book is when Bobby, I think a man was insulting you, another traveler.

[00:55:09] And so you went into his home at his dinner table in front of his family and called him outside. The man wouldn't get up to stand and fight him. And that was the ultimate sense of shame that was bestowed upon him, ah, in that culture. Because he wouldn't get up to fight. And it was the worst insult you could have done as opposed to knocking him out.

[00:55:27] Bobby Gunn: The the reason why I done that, 'cause I'll tell you why, because I knew what he was. See, sometimes you have an guys that wanna announce a fight, foreign police officers security or you know, shop 'em mall,

[00:55:36] Jordan Harbinger: right?

[00:55:37] Bobby Gunn: But a imagine wants a fight. Hey my pal, just walk with that field over there, have a little talk, me and you.

[00:55:41] Okay? That's a fight. If I announced it in front of a movie theater, hey, I'll kill your stone dad. I don't really have any attention. Fight. I'm a raver, so a lot of RSS in the world. So what I got, I waited until he got, we ate, he had a little raven contest to me. Mm-Hmm. I said, I steal you later on, my boy, I steal later.

[00:55:58] I went right to his trailer in front of his kids. I walked in, I just let them know. He said, you have no intention. You're a cowardly bastard. I told him the truth and he, he crying. I walked out him. He had to live with that the rest of his life. I cut my head off and die before I take a back step. That old man born from a mother.

[00:56:13] I walk the door to 10 Mike Tyson. Not one 'cause that's I.

[00:56:20] Jordan Harbinger: This is the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Bobby Gunn. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. Do you ever wish building a social life felt more like recharging your batteries instead of draining them? If so, better help might just be what you need. It's like having your own personal guide to help you navigate through the social labyrinth, helping you figure out what lifts you up and what weighs you down Better.

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[00:58:38] Now for the rest of my conversation with Bobby Gunn. You mentioned your dad is in his eighties. I, I've read that fewer than 3% of travelers live even to age 65. And that, that's a shocking statistic.

[00:58:52] Bobby Gunn: Funny you said that because we were talking about today, a lot of the young traveler men that I see today, 25, 30-year-old, they look like, yeah, I can't believe the shape of, they don't take care of their bodies.

[00:59:01] They're doing things they shouldn't be doing. I think, you know, be honest with you, the old man was always Calista training. He doesn things. He didn't drinking. The old man's not normal, Jordan, I see no man drink 54 bottles of beer one night. Oh my God. Didn't have a dance leg. Chuck married a floor. He's not a normal man.

[00:59:14] He, he just can't go by the old man. He's not normal. But my grandfather before him was 90 something years old before he passed away. My granny was 95. Okay. It was the hard people, but the young generation today. They're not like the hardest, we're harder than C nails our people. Yeah. Today they're getting soft, like Teletubbies, you know, they're still telling you they're not the same way.

[00:59:32] I

[00:59:32] Jordan Harbinger: don't know what it is, and I, I don't wanna speculate, but I, I assume there's some lifestyle changes that maybe have happened, but also your lifestyle. I mean, look, there was, what was this in the book stating, it was like summer teeth, and it's like, what do you mean by summer teeth? It had something to do with pliers.

[00:59:45] Some are in, some are not. That was one gross, and I'm no doctor, but that type of healthcare might have something to do with the lifespan of 65.

[00:59:54] Bobby Gunn: I had a fight in a street one time, right. I, I'm fighting a fight. A guy, I hit him, boom. Knock him go. My hand's swollen, killing me. I goes home and I tell his dad, I had a fighting Dad said, come here.

[01:00:04] What's wrong with your hand, boy? He says, dog, dog. It's all hurting. Come here. He says, boy, come here in this sink. I push my hand in a hot water and I'm squeeze it like this, squeeze it, and a tooth popped outta my hand. A tooth.

[01:00:13] Jordan Harbinger: A tooth

[01:00:14] Bobby Gunn: right

[01:00:14] Jordan Harbinger: in there. Obviously not yours.

[01:00:15] Bobby Gunn: Yeah, tooth. See, a human bites worse than a dog's bite.

[01:00:18] I seen it all mad at life. Listen, listen. I've seen times where we were poor, so poor that I put water and cereal and had money for milk. And I seen people drive by and they tell you about their money. Mm-Hmm. They'd belittle. You see, at the time I was half Irish and half scotch. You understand? I wasn't really half breed or somebody said like that to you.

[01:00:39] And when I got older, I mean, I don't, I had a lot of good cousins that loved me, always be my family and my, but a lot of ones shot me. And they let you know. They tell you real quick. They tell you all your faults. And that was my drive in life. Mm-hmm. To climb the mountain, to get outta that, that, that mountain that says pull.

[01:00:56] And I don't want revenge. I don't want, but I just want to know that I would never be like that. See, I got a good heart in my pal. I won't insult somebody. I'll, I'll do you a favor. I can, honest to God, if you're side the road, I a hundred bucks my pocket head. We kids, I would give you the hundred. I'll go get another hundred because I know God will give me back 1,000.

[01:01:16] So I do that and I know I've seen that. I promise Dolores repay me so many times for good things I've done. But you see a lot of people in this world today, Jordan wouldn't give you a glass of water if you're dying of thirst. How about the church? Holy Lord, go to church. If you're broke down Southern, they turn around and pretend they didn't see you yet.

[01:01:32] They'll put their hands up and tell you they love the Lord. See, actions speak louder than words. You do something to do it. It's like this here, George. How many times you see at a bar, someone rave up and down, I'm gonna kill her. Yeah. His bar's a lot more worse than his bite. The little guy in the corner don't say nothing.

[01:01:49] Start with him and you'll have one of your hands. That's the one you see. You. I learned things in life. The guy at raves up and down, blowing the big old horn rather than he's the biggest puff in the house,

[01:01:58] Stayton Bonner: Jordan, just to speak to summer teeth. Yeah. It's interesting, the home remedies that Bobby was raised to be treated for his cuts.

[01:02:07] It's kind of like a Mad Max culture there. It's an itiner culture. A lot of it was based around automotive. Techniques. Yes. Lina kerosene was rubbed on your cuts.

[01:02:17] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God. Yeah. Tell me about that.

[01:02:18] Stayton Bonner: Uh, you said for sore tooth, a dab a starter, fluid starting fluid a on a swab for a bad affected tooth.

[01:02:23] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, I guess technically that might be effective for the wrong reasons.

[01:02:27] All the wrong Well, I

[01:02:28] Bobby Gunn: see my man do self operations. Look, you can't believe it and put WD 40 on it like that helps. Don't make no sense. Okay. Dad. I mean, some things brother, listen, I I embrace the culture, but I won't do some things they do. Okay. I'm more civilized that, but it's insane.

[01:02:40] Jordan Harbinger: That's, uh, I mean I read the kerosene thing like, oh, put kerosene on your cuts and help 'em heal.

[01:02:45] And I'm like, I am gonna Google this, but I think I already know the answer as to whether or not that's effective.

[01:02:51] Bobby Gunn: Like something don't add up

[01:02:52] Jordan Harbinger: right here. Something like, maybe it kills the germs, but it also puts gasoline or petroleum into your bloodstream. So brother,

[01:02:58] Bobby Gunn: brother, it is insane. It just, the work we used to do, like we're spraying that little asphalt with no mask on.

[01:03:04] Yeah. Fumes for life. Big old bars. I was up, I was wee boy. You, you know, a 40 foot ladder, right? Yeah. Extended. Eight years old with a 20 pound paint rod on my back. Go up there and paint that roof now, eight, nine years old, oh

[01:03:17] Jordan Harbinger: my god.

[01:03:18] Bobby Gunn: Upper and you couldn't see the roof and you look like you're going on. I said, okay.

[01:03:22] Dad trusted him and spraying the roof down. And honest to God, brother, it made you better. I'm not complaining about wasn't normal, but that was our life. Yeah. Our life was normal to us because it was our life.

[01:03:35] Jordan Harbinger: This is probably an obvious question, but, so if you have an itinerant lifestyle, right? You're traveling all over the place and you're working at age eight or whatever it was, are you not in school at

[01:03:46] Bobby Gunn: all?

[01:03:46] No, I wasn't in school. Well, you know, you know, I, my, I was a wee boy, was actually grade two, wasn't it?

[01:03:52] Stayton Bonner: I thought it was third grade. Grade,

[01:03:54] Bobby Gunn: second or second or third, whatever it was. It was, I, in Canada, they were very, uh, different to teachers of America. Right. Okay. I was sitting down trying to figure, he accused me of cheating on somebody.

[01:04:02] He took a ruler, he hit my hand. Well, I hit him a punch. I, I couldn't take the pain. No. He hit me through road, so I hit him. He got upset about it, and so daddy come to school. Uh, this is no good for the boy. I can't, there's no more I sent into my school. But listen, me, I, yes, unfortunately I had no education, but I could, when I lost to being smart in books, I know what the score, you know, I could read it, but you know why I learned to read?

[01:04:24] How's that reading the Bible in boxing magazines?

[01:04:26] Jordan Harbinger: Ah,

[01:04:27] Bobby Gunn: I can't hardly write. Can I short? I can't write a letter. I can't spell you, but I can read anything. Is that weird?

[01:04:33] Jordan Harbinger: Really? So you can't write, but you can read?

[01:04:36] Bobby Gunn: Yeah, I can read things. I can read the, I have no schooling, brother. I can't spell, I can't write a letter.

[01:04:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:04:40] Bobby Gunn: That's the way it is. I, I, I have to, you know, I can't do it. But listen, I get by.

[01:04:44] Stayton Bonner: But it is part of that. Jordan and Tyson Fury's done the same traveler culture. Kids are usually taken out of school around age 11 mm. Middle school, the onset of puberty. They don't want them to assimilate with broader culture.

[01:04:57] I see. That's usually when they're taken out and taught their father's trade. Bobby got taken out earlier. It's part of that cloistered culture to pull kids from formal education.

[01:05:09] Jordan Harbinger: If you think about it, Roma culture is actually quite famous. Like everybody knows about, I mean some of this sort of typecast stuff, like the psychic with the crystal ball, but like everybody knows, oh, now of course I'm drawing a blank, but the dancing, the, the flamenco dancing, like that's also rope.

[01:05:24] Bobby Gunn: Elvis Presley was half traveler. You know that right? His mother. I did not

[01:05:26] Jordan Harbinger: know that. That's incredible. That totally makes sense. Now that you say that

[01:05:30] Bobby Gunn: he, he was a twin. His mother was a Smith, an English

[01:05:31] traveler Smith. I think you Brenner also. Charlie Chapman. Charlie Chaplin. I thought Charlie Chaplin was Jewish.

[01:05:37] Are there Jewish travelers? Tom Jones.

[01:05:39] Stayton Bonner: It's an oral tradition Jordan, that they carry and a lot of time I will, I've been at traveler gatherings and there will just be spontaneous songs. Breakout. I mean, it's not, a culture is deeply about academics and books, so to speak, but it is a gathering of community and a sharing of oral tradition, a sharing of song.

[01:05:58] I mean, it's a huge wealth of talent. People in the traveler culture and is gun, you know, is pointing out. Some of them have broken through to mainstream, even though audiences wouldn't have known it

[01:06:07] Bobby Gunn: has God truth. I mean, it's insane with our people at any time. It could be weddings, parties, you have no idea what could break out.

[01:06:14] I mean, I, I fought Roy Jones Jr. Remember to come back from the fight. Yeah. Literally this comeback fight. They stop the fight. I cut my nose, which I walked back. Everybody's scream, be nice to me. Here's the hotel and here's the bar. Within seconds, I had a full fight with three or four people. My boy beat up one.

[01:06:29] We took, we slaughtered him. And this happened right after flight and then after it was over everywhere. Back normal.

[01:06:35] That is so bizarre. I

[01:06:37] Bobby Gunn: know. It's the same

[01:06:38] Stayton Bonner: man.

[01:06:38] Yeah.

[01:06:39] Stayton Bonner: To the wild west. And Bobby's definitely one of the most famous travelers. Tyson Fury is a world heavyweight champion. He said Bobby Gunn is the king of bare knuckle box.

[01:06:48] I read that. What's amazing about Bobby, you know, he came up under Carl King, who was Don King's son. Basically started at age 15 in Las Vegas, lying about his age, fighting in pro boxing matches. Was a sparring partner. Never really got his due. Left the pro boxing role at about age 2021 when his mother died.

[01:07:08] 10 years, he was in the underground and became a legendary, almost a myth, a fighter. But with the birth of his son, Bobby Jr. He wanted to show him. He was more than that. Came back to pro boxing at age 30. I have joined him for a lot of these fights. He fought major people, Thomas Adamek, James Tony Roy Jones, Jr.

[01:07:30] What was fascinating is a lot of these guys are world heavyweight boxers, world famous. They knew about Bobby's underground. Mm-Hmm. Prestige. Now, Roy Jones Jr. Came up in Gulf Coast, Florida. His father had, uh, cock fighting birds. He grew up around blood sports. And you know, I interviewed him at a fight and he, he found it fascinating.

[01:07:48] Bobby's background. So Bobby is a truly amazing story, and he did become an IBA Yeah. A world champion Boxer Cruiserweight in his own right. But it's this underground legend in bare knuckle that is, funnily enough, made him world famous. Yeah. And now the sport that he helped bring back to the forefront of American culture is on the rise.

[01:08:10] It's the fastest rising combat sport in the world. Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship has, you know, 48 events across the country and world this year. Valuation, they put it around 400 million, right? That's up from $500,000 they made in 2018 when Bobby fought in their first match in Wyoming. So, wow. It really is just an amazing, amazing story and

[01:08:34] Bobby Gunn: a lot of groups are coming up and telling you like the BYB that, that they're doing good to all these guys are trying to make Bele box and become sanctioned.

[01:08:41] I fought the best fighters of the world in boxing, and I did it, but I would like to say this here, that I wasn't just fighting. I had to fight the judges referees, a lot of controversial, like, stop, like, you know, you're talking to me right now. You, you know, I don't care about a cut. I had fight the stopped fights that I cut, but the guys I lost in the ring, I tell you what, they wouldn't last me five minutes in the street and they know that night or that in my world, my world is a different world.

[01:09:05] And I was the king of my world for a long time and I, I run it and I'm proud and I pray to God all my things I went through. I try to pave the road for now to be a sanctions where I, I work so hard to make a sanction. We push so hard through commissions and that was, it is going real good. It is doing wonderful, but I want everybody not to be out under the ground, like be above the ground legalized and making money off it and doing good on it.

[01:09:31] And I hope maybe I could pave the road for these guys. Do today the right way.

[01:09:34] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, it sounds like you, you most certainly have, I know we're running outta time. I have a couple just quick ones here. So travelers are not supposed to socialize with people who are not travelers, right? Are, are you kind of an exception because you're a public figure?

[01:09:48] Bobby Gunn: Be honest with you. I, I, I'm, I always gotta do my own thing and might be outta the box, but I thank God I got a good palor. I bet this man, this man coming, when I first met him about, I thought he was a nice, good looking little guy. Be a little nerd. I didn't know first his little shoes on. That's a pretty accurate description.

[01:10:02] Bobby. What a, what a world, what a man that come, I'll tell you what he listen. Fair to play to him though, Jordan, like yourself, I know you're a proper man. He's a proper man. He was, he's been involved in a situation with me. My God, you're, we family. I feel so bad. But he, did he come through it? But what I'm saying to you, yes, a lot of times you don't socialize other groups that, but I'm glad I did.

[01:10:20] I show you I, I'm in a good pal here. Two totally different worlds. But thank God for Jordan and maybe my book could do anything I would say to you this year, well, I don't care who you are, what race you are, whoever religion you serve, serve at your very best. And I promise you, if you want something, go for, because if you don't regret the rest of your life and go for, don't let nobody tell you you can't do something.

[01:10:40] 'cause see, they can't do it. You block them out like a horse raised little horse. He puts their vitals in his eyes for a reason. Because you don't see the horse survive. The horse, the left or the prize, the finish line. You might not get there fast, but you'll get there. I promise you do it. Please go for it.

[01:10:55] Don't sit back and don't. I wish I do it. Do it. You got one life. You got one name. You got one story. We all got stories. Everybody's got a book Our own selves. Make your book a good book. Don't leave the pages blank. Fill in the gaps. Go for it in life because you can do it. You can do it. I, I did it. My God brother, you can do it.

[01:11:18] Jordan Harbinger: I really wish we did this one in person one. I would take you guys out for, uh, I, there's so many stories that we just don't even have time for, so I, I would love to,

[01:11:27] Bobby Gunn: I gotta see you Jordan. I want to come through this. The honest God I do. I want to see you.

[01:11:30] Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. Also, I'd have you teach me how to throw a legit punch because I only know like judo chop nonsense and I'm like, I could learn from this guy.

[01:11:37] I could use it at least one move, you know, just in case. So I appreciate that. I wish you good health, all the best to you and your family. Bobby. Thank you Jordan. Dayton, thank you for joining us as well. I know you booked a flight to get out there and this has been a little bit of a technical cluster and I just really appreciate you sharing all this today.

[01:11:52] It's incredible. I love this episode. I think it's so interesting,

[01:11:55] Bobby Gunn: Jordan. Thank you. In closing, there's, there's a pollman at Ed Bur Scotland. A wall, it says, and river. Everybody hears it says, life's the time. You only borrow you here today and gone tomorrow. Like it. We stole up on a wee river. You're here for wee only.

[01:12:10] You're gone. For river go for time goes by too quick. Go.

[01:12:16] Jordan Harbinger: I've got some thoughts on this episode, but before I get into that, here's a trailer from my interview with Layla Ali, daughter of legendary Boxer Muhammad Ali. She's got a great story about how she ended up the only other boxer in her family and I.

[01:12:29] How she carries her father's legacy.

[01:12:31] Laila Ali: You have to have it in you to want to be a fighter. It's not something that you just go, oh, I think I'll just try boxing, you know? 'cause you're gonna get your ass beat if you get in there. You don't have it in you when you get that opportunity. It was a brawl. I mean, it was bloody.

[01:12:43] It was like crazy. And I was like, I want to do that. You would think anyone punching you would hurt, right? Yeah, sure. But as fighters, it's like, oh, that person can punch. That person can't tap in you. Tap, tap, tap. And then every once in a while that bams that hard way. Oh, okay. I felt that. That you're listening to your camp saying she's nothing and she this or she that.

[01:12:58] And then you have to get your ass in there and then you feel that punch like no, she can punch. No, she's not just a pretty baby. You see me across that ring looking at you like, yeah, remember all that stuff? You talk now, it's about to happen. Just me and you. Nobody else can get in there with you. You know?

[01:13:09] And it's like, I'm gonna remind you of all the things you said. They didn't know that street side of me. Not everyone has that. You don't have to. Sure. But I do. Now you get to meet someone, you to see how they walk, see how they hold this stuff and see if there's any fear in their eyes. What was your father's reaction to you wanting to box?

[01:13:22] He didn't like it. No, no. You guys were sparring before you even put the gloves on. Oh yeah. He supported me though. He came to a lot of my fights. He couldn't beat at all of them. I could always see that glare in his eyes of him being proud and just to come into that arena and having everyone chanting Ali Ali did you just see him light up to see me in that ring?

[01:13:40] And him just remembering himself or boxing styles were similar. The way I'm shaped, my body shaped. So just seeing all of that had to be a super crazy experience for him.

[01:13:50] Jordan Harbinger: For more with Layla Ali, check out episode number 3 0 9 of the Jordan Harbinger show. Man, I have to say it was pretty sad. That when he fought, when Bobby was fighting, that was really the only time that he got affection from his father.

[01:14:04] I mean, I know they have their relationship now, but it's a little bit heartbreaking somehow just as a, as a parent. He also told me something really interesting. He said before fights, he would hear a sound like a whirring sound and it, it didn't really make sense the way that we explained it, so we ended up cutting it out 'cause it didn't quite work out.

[01:14:20] But it, it was a quite interesting sort of vibration that he claimed to hear. He was really focused and really in the zone and it appears to have resulted it almost in an auditory hallucination. Really interesting. I, I would love to have gotten more into that if we had time. I mentioned that he fought with all the different mobs.

[01:14:36] There's a couple of different notes here about the different kinds of mafiosi. So triads and Yakuza. So the Asian gangs, Chinese and Japanese, they stayed completely silent during the fights. So you got these guys bashing each other's eyes out and stuff, and they were totally quiet. And if somebody went down, the fight was over, they would clap just like golf.

[01:14:54] Others, of course, were more drunk and wild. You got the Irish, you got the Russians who handle everything with violence. Like they're just, even Bobby was like, man, these guys just handle everything with violence. I. Biker gangs. He said, were quite professional, but we're obviously yelling and rowdy and drunk and it's just, it was funny to see how the organized crime groups of each culture had their own unique subculture that was different from one another.

[01:15:16] I just thought that was kind of an interesting note. As far as cheating in the fighting goes, people try and headbutt, they try and duck their head down so you break your hand on their skull. I don't know if that's cheating, but that's sort of a considered, you know, not cool. Other people forced others to throw fights rig matches a few times.

[01:15:32] Guys tried to bite him in the ring, as you heard. I mean, that is just a Mike Tyson ish right there. Oh, and by the way, the term gypsy, as I mentioned in the top of the show, that term is offensive. It actually came about because people thought that Roma, the people who are originally from India were Egyptian, but in truth, they were fleeing Islamic armies who were invading in colonizing countries all over the world.

[01:15:56] At that time, you had Islamic Arabic armies that were going into North Africa, that were going all over Asia. They were colonizing at that point in time, and they were pushing people out. And so essentially the Roma and the travelers are permanently displaced people. And I'm not gonna say anymore about that because this is a political third rail topic right now, isn't it?

[01:16:15] And that's not what this episode is about, although kind of wanna cover it. Fun. Side note, I grew up playing lacrosse with John Sullivan, I think the fourth, uh, the great, great grandson or the great grandson of the John Sullivan mentioned in this episode. Bobby's a hard worker man. He trained hard, he fought hard.

[01:16:30] Now he does construction to pay the bills, I think is good. He probably knew when to quit. A very dangerous sport. This is not a sport where you can make a great living and save money for later and raise a family. Yes, you get paid, but you gotta share it. And, you know, it's, I don't think it's a great way to make a living just based on what it is.

[01:16:45] And it's a lot of time away from home, a lot of time healing. Terrible anecdote earlier, uh, about Disneyland. What is with Irish travelers in Disneyland? Man, they love that place. For some reason. I didn't realize they were getting kicked out because of, you know who they are, but probably they've had trouble there for it.

[01:17:01] I mean, I, this episode sponsored by Disneyland come from Mickey Mouse. Stay to get your teeth knocked out by a sock full of pennies by somebody's mom. Uh, I'm just surprised that they were getting removed from the park. I mean, it's the happiest place on earth unless you're getting your teeth knocked out by the aforementioned sock full of pennies.

[01:17:18] Again, fascinating story, really interesting upbringing. I know that Bobby wants something different for his own children. I, I didn't mention this on the show 'cause we ran outta time, but typically travelers pull their children out of school at age 12. I think Staton mentioned that Bobby let his daughter stay in school and finish school and get married later because she loves school and he just, we didn't really get into this, but you know, it's his little girl.

[01:17:41] He wants something a little bit better for her. And, uh, we didn't get into detail on that, but I thought that was kind of a fascinating little note. You can just tell this is a guy who lives for his family and props to him. For that, thanks to both Bobby and Staton for coming on the show today. All things Bobby Gunn and the book, of course will be in the show notes@jordanharbinger.com.

[01:17:57] Transcripts will be in the show notes, advertisers deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show. All at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those. Who support the show, and if you buy the book, which will be linked in the show notes, those book links help support the show as well.

[01:18:11] Also, we've just revamped our newsletter wee bit wiser. So instead of doing summaries of past episodes, we've actually reoriented the newsletter around one super brief, very practical takeaway. The idea is to give you something specific, something practical, something that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions.

[01:18:26] Your psychology, your relationships in under two minutes, making wee bit wiser, even weer. So if you weren't really feeling the newsletter before, a lot of you loved it, but I know it was longer. If you weren't really feeling it and you didn't think it was for you, stick with us. I think you're really gonna like the new direction.

[01:18:41] And if you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It's a great companion to the show. Jordan harbinger.com/news is where you can find it. Six minute networking. Don't forget about that over@sixminutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn in this show.

[01:18:56] Well, it's created an association with Podcast one. My team includes Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, and Gabriel Rahi. Remember, we've rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is you share it with friends. When you find something useful or interesting, the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about.

[01:19:13] So if you know somebody who's interested in these kinds of sports, bare knuckle stuff, the traveler life, whatever it is, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

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