Clint Watts (@selectedwisdom) is a Senior Fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a Senior Fellow at the Center For Cyber and Homeland Security at The George Washington University, and author of Messing with the Enemy: Surviving in a Social Media World of Hackers, Terrorists, Russians, and Fake News.
What We Discuss with Clint Watts:
- How our own cognitive biases are manipulated in an effort to destabilize trust in each other and our very way of life.
- How hostile entities like ISIS and Al-Qaeda use social media for propaganda and recruitment.
- Why Western governments can’t, even with their relatively infinite wealth of resources, beat ragtag Somali Twitter pirates and ISIS shills.
- How bias creates social media bubbles, what forms they take, and why this is dangerous.
- How we can fix these issues or at least mitigate the effect they have on our lives.
- And much more…
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
(Download Episode Here)
(Subscribe to the Podcast Here)
Worksheet for This Episode
While the Internet’s been around for a while now, does it seem like it’s just recently become a force powerful enough to sow real-life division among friends and family in a way that beats Thanksgiving dinners, baseball games, and Black Friday sales — combined? It’s not just your imagination, and it’s not an accident — it’s by design.
In this episode, Messing with the Enemy: Surviving in a Social Media World of Hackers, Terrorists, Russians, and Fake News author Clint Watts offers a devastating and essential look at the misinformation campaigns, fake news, and electronic espionage operations that have become the cutting edge of modern warfare — and how we can protect ourselves and our country against them. Listen, learn, and enjoy!
Please Scroll down for Full Show Notes and Featured Resources!
Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!
Calm is the number one app for meditation and sleep! Want to explore its many benefits? Enjoy an exclusive discount of 25% off a Calm premium subscription by going to calm.com/jordan!
Need custom graphics, logos, or Web design? Access a community of 600,000+ designers by registering at designcrowd.com/jordan and enjoy up to $100 off with The Jordan Harbinger Show bonus offer!
Does your business have an Internet presence? Save up to a whopping 62% on new webhosting packages with HostGator at hostgator.com/jordan!
Brother INKvestment Tank all-in-one inkjet printers keep your business running by delivering up to one year of printing without the need to replace ink cartridges! Find out more by visiting ChangeTheWayYouInk.com!
Do you want fancy designer jeans that look pretty at the club or good-looking but functional jeans that adventurers, go-getters, and rodeo riders have relied on for over 70 years? Try Wrangler — denim made for the modern world. Check ’em out here!
More About This Show
The shocking reality of social media, as we learned in our recent conversation with Jaron Lanier, is that it can be used to manipulate human perception and behavior in ways even its creators are only now beginning to understand.
Fake news, for all its coverage by the real news, is spread far and wide by weaponized social media — the guerilla warfare of an outfinanced enemy. It’s not sophisticated, and anybody can wield it to unleash untold damage instantly. Just ask former FBI agent and Messing with the Enemy: Surviving in a Social Media World of Hackers, Terrorists, Russians, and Fake News author Clint Watts.
“The idea of social media — and why it’s such an efficient way for good people or bad people to reach an audience — is it’s designed to give people what they want,” says Clint.
Clint recognizes the work done by Eli Pariser in his book The Filter Bubble, in which the power of algorithms to hide or reveal content based on what we search for is examined. But Clint has expanded this idea into what he calls a preference bubble — controlled in part by these unseen algorithms, but ultimately steered by our own conscious inclinations — which makes interference by outside forces especially potent.
“It’s really about your preference…you are choosing — over and over and over — things that you like. The system is designed to give you more of what you like. And you’re blocking out that which you don’t like, which…puts you in alternative realities. So you have shared perception, but not shared reality.
“Whether you’re a terrorist, or a Russian disinfo [agent], or a mass manipulator like we’ll see going into the 2020 election, you want to inculcate your audience in a world that you control based on what they believe is their own choice.”
In essence, we’re more easily manipulated by these nefariously calculating outside forces through social media and online platforms because they’re infiltrating our isolated bubbles of reinforced personal beliefs and swaying us with ideas we think are our own.
“You…take it on even more because, ‘I’m liberated! I’m choosing all this!’ But you don’t know that behind the scenes, whoever’s paying for the advertising, whoever’s pushing the products, whoever’s changing the words, whoever’s delivering you the video that you need to see — that’s specially edited or deep faked or whatever it might be — is manipulating you in some way.”
Clint points out that the potential for this type of abuse is even greater in highly populous and politically volatile third world countries.
“You’re talking about populations that have gone from no news or very minimal news or friend and family circles to mobile-enabled social media where the source of information is not actually a source, it’s their friend or family and they have trust based on communal relationships.”
In Myanmar, military personnel spread anti-Muslim sentiment through fake Facebook accounts and pages systematically over the course of several years in an effort to facilitate a mission of ethnic cleansing. As a result, more than 700,000 Muslim refugees have fled the country to escape a particularly convincing wave of completely fabricated fearmongering.
According to The New York Times, “One of the most dangerous campaigns came in 2017, when the military’s intelligence arm spread rumors on Facebook to both Muslim and Buddhist groups that an attack from the other side was imminent, said two people. Making use of the anniversary of Sept. 11, 2001, it spread warnings on Facebook Messenger via widely followed accounts masquerading as news sites and celebrity fan pages that ‘jihad attacks’ would be carried out. To Muslim groups it spread a separate message that nationalist Buddhist monks were organizing anti-Muslim protests.”
Lest we kid ourselves into smugly believing the first world is immune to such large-scale and seemingly transparent manipulations, many people (some occupying top positions of power in the United States) still believe there was widespread celebration in the Middle East when the Twin Towers fell on 9/11 — though this “fact” has long since been discredited.
And where does Clint stand on the moral equivalency argument that, even though there’s evidence Russians deliberately interfered in the 2016 US presidential election, Americans are just as guilty of interfering in the elections of other countries?
“I’ve worked in the US government or with them for decades,” says Clint, “and I’ve never seen anything like what the Russians did. I’ve never seen Americans hack thousands of innocent Russians or any country, spill their secrets out timed in order to win the election by advancing it through bogus social media accounts that look like and talk like Russian people for candidates that we have picked along with the propaganda outlet that is pumping information into their population. I’ve not seen that.”
Listen to this episode in its entirety to learn more about how governments and interests hostile to Western interests churn out disinformation campaigns and what they aim to gain in the process, why the United States can’t utilize similar tactics, evidence of online trolling’s real-world effects, how even dating apps can be used for social engineering by nefarious sources, what we can do to defend against such manipulation, and much more.
THANKS, CLINT WATTS!
If you enjoyed this session with Clint Watts, let him know by clicking on the link below and sending him a quick shout out at Twitter:
And if you want us to answer your questions on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at email@example.com.
Resources from This Episode:
- Messing with the Enemy: Surviving in a Social Media World of Hackers, Terrorists, Russians, and Fake News by Clint Watts
- Foreign Policy Research Institute
- Clint Watts at Twitter
- Jaron Lanier | Why You Should Unplug from Social Media for Good, The Jordan Harbinger Show 156
- The Filter Bubble: How the New Personalized Web Is Changing What We Read and How We Think by Eli Pariser
- What Is a Deepfake? Let This Unsettling Video of Jennifer Lawrence with Steve Buscemi’s Face Show You by Kevin Kelleher, Fortune
- Trump Administration Uses Misleading Video to Justify Barring of CNN’s Jim Acosta by Michael M. Grynbaum and Elizabeth Williamson, The New York Times
- A Genocide Incited on Facebook, With Posts From Myanmar’s Military by Paul Mozur, The New York Times
- The Video of Celebrations That Was Broadcast on 9/11 by Robert Mackey, The New York Times
- Read the Declassified Report on Russian Interference in the U.S. Election, The Washington Post
- Russian Interference in the 2016 Election: A Cacophony, Not a Conspiracy by Masha Gessen, The New Yorker
- Russian Trolls Organized Both Sides of an Islam Protest in Texas by Alex Zielinski, San Antonio Current
- Local Trump Supporters Shrug off Being Paid and Played by Russians by Frank Cerabino, The Palm Beach Post
- Does the FBI’s Marijuana Policy Breed Dishonest Applicants? by Daniel Roberts, Fortune
- Omar and Me: My Strange, Frustrating Relationship with an American Terrorist by J.M. Berger, Foreign Policy
- Adam Gadahn and Al-Qaeda’s Internet Strategy by George Michael, Middle East Policy Council
- A Guide to Russia’s High Tech Tool Box for Subverting US Democracy by Garrett M. Graff, Wired
- Russia’s Propaganda Machine Discovers 2020 Democratic Candidate Tulsi Gabbard by Robert Windrem and Ben Popken, NBC News
- The Death of Expertise: The Campaign against Established Knowledge and Why it Matters by Thomas M. Nichols
- Trust Me, I’m Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator by Ryan Holiday
- The Tactics of a Russian Troll Farm by Dave Lee, BBC News
- John Podesta Is Ready to Talk About Pizzagate by Andy Kroll, Rolling Stone
- Trump Sides with Russia Against FBI at Helsinki Summit, BBC News
- Dating Site’s Founder Warns About Internet Troll Factory Targeting Millions of Americans by Darrin Field, Elena’s Models