148: Erik Aude | Imprisoned in Pakistan for a Crime He Didn’t Commit Part Two

Transcript for Erik Aude - Imprisoned in Pakistan for a Crime He Didn't Commit Part Two (Episode 148)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer, Jason DeFillippo. This is Eric Aude part two. If you haven't heard part one, go back to the earlier episode and listen to part one. This story is absolutely insane. He went to prison in Pakistan for three years for a crime he didn't commit. He came out of murderer and there's a lot to be learned from it. He's a stunt man. He's an actor. He uses stunting hand skillset to withstand torture in this Pakistani prison. He'll learn how to play poker in there. He learned a lot of it -- I don't want to spoil it. It's a really, really interesting story that -- I chase down. The guy's incredible. It's not just a detailed episode of locked up abroad. It's about resilience. It's about mental and physical toughness, and this is part two where the story, believe it or not, if you heard part one, this is actually where it gets crazier. Jason, when you were editing, what were your thoughts when you were going through some of this?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:00:53] I really had a hard time wrapping my head around everything because like at the end of part one I was just like, “Well that sucked.” And I didn't think it was going to get that much worse, but Oh my God, the rest of this episode is just insane, what this guy did.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:08] Yeah, so here in part two, we'll be picking up where we left off and where the real harrowing story actually begins. And if you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships using systems and tiny habits and using my network to grab these great guests, check out our Six-Minute Networking course which is free and just takes a few minutes per day. That's over at jordanharbinger.com/course. All right, here's Eric Aude part two.

[00:01:35] So okay, so after these guys get done, they're frustrated as hell with you at this point.

Eric Aude: [00:01:39] I went back to the customs lockup and Cristy came back that night with [indiscernible][00:01:43] and some guy from the army. I don't know who he was, but he was like some general or he was at like a higher up, he wasn't a soldier. Well he was a soldier, but he was a soldier that gave him commands though. And he was just trying to hook up with Cristy. That's why he was there, all right? And Christy comes and talks to me, I’ve been tortured for three days. So yeah, I'm a little drained and I'm sad about what happened and I'm just like, “What news is going on? Has my mom got me a lawyer yet? And because these guys aren't telling me anything of use, well she let me use a phone. The guards were like, “All right, go ahead.” They were being nice.

[00:02:19] So they let me use a phone and I was able to talk to my mom for the first time. That was Monday. That was Monday after I had gotten arrested. I got arrested Friday. So Saturday, Sunday, Monday. So I've been tortured all that day, but I'm back that night at the customs lockup, and I'm using the phone, and my mom, I'm just trying to get information. And my first words to her, “Mom, I did not know.” She goes, “I know, I know.” I said, “So who are you talking to?” She says, “Well, I’m talking to so and so, I'm talking to so and so. We can get you a lawyer.” She's on it. She's not just sitting around doing nothing. She's trying to figure out best way to move forward. And I talked to her for a few minutes and I let her know that I'm all right. I don't tell her what's happening to me at all.

[00:02:57] But when I hang up the phone, the fucking Army guy says, “Hey, okay, I'm going to give you some advice, right? You can take it. You don't have to take it, because you're going to want to tell the truth. Throw yourself in the mercy of the courts here. Otherwise, if you lie to them,” and I'm like, “Fuck off, dude.” I didn't want to hear any of that. Like “Go fuck yourself!” Right? And this guy like, “All right, man, it's all you. It's not me, it's you.” And he's basically calling me a drug smuggler, right? And I mean, I'm already having all this bad stuff happen to me, but something happened that absolutely, I was so pissed off at this asshole for saying this shit to me, but Cristy said something to me. Standing right next to him, without even missing a beat. She goes, “Eric, I believe you.” And I was like, “Really?” It was like something I needed to hear. She had no idea how bad I needed to hear that, but it was also in her own little way of fuck you to that guy. It was hilarious.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:48] That was her saying, you're not getting anything.

Eric Aude: [00:03:50] Yeah, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:50] Just so you know.

Eric Aude: [00:03:50] Not at all. Here's this guy calling me a drug smuggler, making fun of my situation and here's Christy standing shoulder to shoulder to that guy saying, “I believe you, Eric.” And that meant so much to me at that moment. It really did. And I don't know why, it really helped me. That night I slept, that night I was passed out because I was so tired from what happened that day. But the next morning, my feet were killing me. My feet were fucked up so bad like they were cut up and just jacked up and swollen. So I got driven about an hour and some change to Rawalpindi, which is Southeast of Islamabad, to the biggest prison in all of Pakistan. The biggest prison. Pakistan at the time had 46 prisons in the Punjab, ranging in size and everything, from a couple of dozen, a couple of hundred to Rawalpindi, which was supposed to house 1800 prisoners. That's what it was built for. But there's over 6,000 prisoners.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:47] Oh wow.

Eric Aude: [00:04:48] Over crowded into this prison. Hundreds coming and going every day. They've got schools in there. They've got their own courts there for the really dangerous prisoners who they don't want to take a chance of being able to escape by where their families, by taking them all the way to Islamabad because that's where highjacks happened on the roads.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:02] Oh sure.

Eric Aude: [00:05:03] Missile hijackings and like armed like --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:05] Oh man.

Eric Aude: [00:05:06] Shootouts and heat style shootouts.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:08] Geez.

Erik Aude: [00:05:09] There's a kitchen there. There are shops there. There's like farms and fields, it's a huge prison. It's a city within a city. It's not just all right, you’re going to prison, that standout, it's a city within a city. Now what they do when you get to jail is most people in Pakistan are illiterate. So they don't have you sign your name or anything. They do thumbprints and I don't know how they decipher anyone, but that's how you sign for everything. So they bring me into this big waiting area with these huge doors that are like the doors to mortar, and off to the right, I see a big board that has all the prisoners.

[00:05:40] They got the under trials, the women prisoners, the child prisoners, the convicted prisoners, the death row prisoners. You see the list and there's these block letter and kind of like Scrabble on the numbers, and they're constantly changing. So that's how I know there's over 6,000 prisoners here.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:53] Oh, right.

Eric Aude: [00:05:54] And I don't just hear about it, I see it. It's a constant number of who's in, who's out, under trials and whatnot. And I hear this chanting on the other side of the door. Now there's a huge door, but then there's a smaller door in the bigger door and the guard after they take off my cuffs and make me do the thumbprint and everything, and then they searched me. The guard literally picks up his hands. He says to me [indiscernible] [00:06:14] and then he goes, and that lets me know like I'm about to fight. And I'm like, “Just open the fucking door.” The whole thing I was thinking of is I got to get to the other side so that I can turn it into one on one. That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that if I come in, they're going to surround me. So I got to go through them as quick as possible so I can turn it into one on one, maybe two on one.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:33] So you know there's a bunch of dudes waiting for you outside the doors.

Eric Aude: [00:06:36] Yeah, yeah, because they like “shubhechha, shubhechha,” this is what they do. Normally what would happen is when prisoners get brought into the prison, they're usually like six to 12 of them. And what will happen, these guys called number darts. Number darts are prisoners that do the guards, dirty work for them. So they get extra rations or extra privileges. This is just the way it is. They can shake down anything off of you like watches, jackets. If they like your boots or anything, to entice them. This is why their number darts.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:03] Sure.

Eric Aude: [00:07:04] But normally they would send in six to 12 prisoners at a time, and these guys would break off and two on one, one on one, slapping, prisoners cower. And if there's a couple unruly prisoners and they will get swarmed three or four on one. For me, they send me in by myself that day, sent me up by myself.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:21] They want to see you get torn up.

Eric Aude: [00:07:22] They want to see me get you to get fucked up. Now for me, I was a wedge buster. I kick off. My job was the fucking knock the guy's chin into his chest and I would get flagged every day if I played football this day because I use the top of my head and crown. So my whole thing was as soon as they open the door, I'm going to get through these assholes and turn it into a one on one, two on one fight, they're not going to be expecting that. I came in swinging, and these guys got beard and dresses and they're in sandals. So they weren't really equipped for this shit. I just kept back peddling the whole time, dropping these guys as I was back peddling after I got thrown, using their beards against them. And there's--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:56] You’re knocking them beards.

Eric Aude: [00:07:57] Fuck, yeah, I was. Hell yeah, I was. I mean I got torture.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:00] That’s funny.

Eric Aude: [00:08:00]  I got tortured for three days for shit I didn't do. So I was pissed off and this is my chance to get it back for a second. So all you saw me do is back pedal across this huge courtyard. These guys are trying to surround me and they couldn't because I was just dropping them. And this little       [Mashakti] [00:08:16]. [Mashakti] [00:08:16] is prison worker. This guy obviously didn't know he's not a number darts, the number darts is bigger guys. But this [Mashakti] [00:08:22]. He's like 4’10”, 4’11” little guy, maybe weighs 80 pounds. He's like, la, la, la, la, la. And he comes walking up, but you could tell he's got authority somehow because it's just his attitude and he grabs my wrist to follow him and he's like yelling at all these other dudes, to fuck off. So I followed this dude who's like actually stopped the fight. This little guy stopped the fight. He's the man in charge and I follow him down these long, long paths all into the writing on the walls are all these a Quran verses and everything written in Arabic. And then I got the women's prison on the right, but these long walls and once again, remember that glass on the top of the walls?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:03] Yeah.

Eric Aude: [00:09:03] Well there's the glass on the top of the walls on the women's prison, not on the rest of the prison, just the women's prison. Because they don't want the dude, hopping over the wall to fuck all the girls. So it's to protect the girls and vice versa, I guess. Pass that same, then I go past the children's prison, and then to the left is the mosque and everyone's praying. It’s prayer time. So you got thousands and thousands and thousands of prisoners on their prayer mats all towards the mosque facing the same direction. And they can hear it through these loud, loud speakers, the prayers, you know the La ilaha illallah [indiscernible][00:09:34] those kinds of prayers.

[00:09:39] I get sent to the barracks, the barracks, there's eight different huge barracks. Each Barrack is two stories and they can house a couple a hundred prisoners each. Each room just housing, these people sleep shoulder to shoulder to shoulder to shoulder. They have buckets everywhere. There's people sweeping the floors. There's people hanging up all their clothes everywhere. I mean there's trash and whatnot. There's cats. If people carrying buckets of doll and food, I mean it’s just a city within a city. It's a world here, but I'm so tired. It's going to fucking brawl at the front. I'm tired and tortured. I'm hurting. I'm tired, I want to eat and I get brought up to the processing barracks. Process in barrack is empty pretty much just like a few, a handful of people who have chores and are doing chalks and cleaning.

[00:10:18] And the guy tells me basically to stay and I try to just pass out at the end. You know I got my boots on, I don't take anything off and I just pass out at the end and I'm trying to sleep. But my mind won't shut off. My body is tired, but my mind won't shut off. And then I start to hear people coming in and scuffling and before I know it, you know when someone's in your bubble, your private space.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:41] Psychological space, yeah.

Eric Aude: [00:10:43] I open my eyes and it’s just guys sitting around staring at me because I'm the new animal there, I'm the new circus attraction. And someone says to me, what country?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:55] Oh, man.

Eric Aude: [00:10:56] And I learned the hard way a couple of nights previous that you don't say America. I said Pakistan, born and raised.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:02] Sure, in English.

Eric Aude: [00:11:03] I’ve been here my whole life right down the road, you know.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:06] Oh, man.

Eric Aude: [00:11:07] And this guy goes, “No, no, you're the American.” I'm like, “What? Fuck that country. I'm not American.” And he holds up his newspaper. There's me, posing with the guards.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:18] On the front page of the newspaper.

Eric Aude: [00:11:19] I said, that guy doesn't even look like me. And sure enough, I'm going to full out brawl again. This time, I'm getting fucking wrecked because I'm so tired of just too many of them. I'm the Santa Claus in Greenland's. Everyone's on my back and I'm chucking these assholes. Now, I moved it out onto the balcony, which is a smaller balcony and I'm keeping the balcony so they can't get around me. I'm using the wall, but they're just getting his smashed and hitting him try, it's mostly grabbing shove, and this dudes on my shoulder, so I throw him off my shoulder onto the crowd below. And when I throw them over the balcony. I mean--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:49] You threw off the balcony?

Eric Aude: [00:11:51] Yeah. I threw him off the second story balcony but onto crowd below. So I mean, he's Jack dead. He's not dead you know.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:56] Yeah.

Eric Aude: [00:11:57] The guards decided to get involved and started baton charging everyone, and they came into beat the crap out of me, the crowd and me with the batons. And then they took me to [kasuri] [00:12:08] And [kasuri] [00:12:08] is a punishment cell. It's punishment cell in prison. And I
would spend my first five days in jail in [kasuri] [00:12:18].

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:18] So this is like solitary confinement.

Eric Aude: [00:12:20] Yeah. But in solitary confinement, you know they just leave you alone, but in [kasuri] [00:12:26], they'd beat the bottom of your feet once a day. The only time you get fed as when they bring you a cup of dough and a row tea which is like a tortilla. You dunk that in that you get fed once a day and [kasuri] [00:12:39] you're in complete darkness. There's no light whatsoever. The only time we see light is when it's your turn to had the bottom of your feet beaten or when they feed you and the room's so small that you can't lay down completely.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:53] Oh, man.

Eric Aude: [00:12:53] It's like a closet. So you're constantly always propped up and you have to ssh, you know, used to go to the bathroom and a hole in the corner and you're basically trying to shit and piss into that small hole that you can't even see. Cockroaches climb all over you. Mosquitoes get at you, ants get at you. Scorpions, everything comes at you. The rats will come out of the holes at sometimes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:17] Oh, man.

Eric Aude: [00:13:17] And the only time you know, you just all -- you're there in pure darkness with your own thoughts. I would spend my first five days in that room and I was spending a total of 132 days of my entire three years in Pakistan in that room, eight weeks in a row, was the longest.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:35] Eight weeks.

Eric Aude: [00:13:36] In a row is the longest I spent in there.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:37] 90 days total. That is incredible, 132.

Eric Aude: [00:13:40] Yeah, 132 days and so 60 days total.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:43] I don't know why I heard 90 days. Oh my God, that is terrible. And so you're stuck in this closet. I don't even want to make you take us through that anymore than you have. What do you start doing in prison once you get out of that? I mean I know you started learning Urdu, which I think is probably a really good move.

Eric Aude: [00:13:59] I started learning Urdu, the very beginning, the very first word I remember the figuring out on my own, was kader,kader and I was like, I assumed that meant “where” because I was being told to go to the front to meet with the embassy who showed up, and the girl from the embassy showed up with that, with that –

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:18] Officer.

Erik Aude: [00:14:18] Yeah, that Army dude.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:20] Still jets still trying to—

Erik Aude: [00:14:21] And my exact words—

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:22] Get it in.

Erik Aude: [00:14:23] Exactly. My exact words are like, “She's not going to hook up with you, dude.”

I called them out. I was like, so you don't have to show up here anymore. She's not going to hook up with you. And he just kept quiet at that time. I guess someone gave him like a little talking to. I was asking like, “When's my court date going to be?” And they said that my court date was going to be on May 2nd. And I was like, “What the fuck?” So I go to the court, they came to tell me that I'm going to be going to the court, “Who's my lawyer?” “Well, your mom's talking to someone.” So this guy shows up to the court, says I want to represent you, but by this time I'm asking people all the questions like, “Hey, how much should this cost?” And I'm learning pretty quickly, this should only cost $400 from the very broken English that I'm hearing from people. The superintendent had put me on death row because they couldn't put me in general population because people were trying to kill me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:13] Sure.

Erik Aude: [0:15:14] Some asshole put a 5,000 rupee value on my head, which is roughly $87. And whenever I went, people were trying to get it. People were yelling and spitting and some dickhead hit me with a rake and like it was just anger towards me, everywhere I went. I know what it's like to have people hate me for the color of my skin. And I mean hate me, hate me. Yeah, so if someone says you don't know what it's like, my white privilege got me stabbed and shot at and beaten and more fights than I could fucking count. So don't use that crap on me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:45] You get it now.

Erik Aude: [00:15:46] Oh no, I understand it. And so they couldn't put me in general population, so they put me on death row and there was like one dude in there who could speak a little English and he told me, “Look, this is a $400 case, and that's roughly 24,000 rupees.” That's all it should cost. Here, the lawyers are like, “Oh, it's going to cost $10,000 US.” I'm like, “Well, no, no, no, no. It's going to cost 24,000 rupees because that's what everyone else is paying and that's what I'm going to pay.” The lawyers that were coming in. I was firing lawyers left and right because these guys are like, “I'll represent you for $25,000.” One fucking lawyer who looked like he was hung over, drunk and his eyes was all jacked up.

He was wearing the suit that was way the fuck bigger than him. It looked like he got it from his older brother, hand me down and he goes, “You know, it reminded me of, have you ever seen Beetlejuice?”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:35] Yeah, sure.

Erik Aude: [00:16:37] Beetlejuice, you have those characters as real big students that were just.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:40] Yeah. And the guy with a small head.

Erik Aude: [00:16:42] Or the dude that was being -- the dude who used to take papers and through the wall, because he was run over by a truck. He was like—

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:50] Oh yeah, that's right, that’s right.

Erik Aude: [00:16:51] It reminded me of that guy for some reason because the seat was just so big on this little guy and he says to me, because he just comes up to me with the paper and he goes, “Sign here. Sign here.” I'm like, “Okay, well, do you want to know anything about my case or anything?” I’ll represent sign.” And I said, “How much this?” He says “4 million.” “4 million, you mean rupees?” Which is still ridiculous. 44,000 rupees, I'm like “$1.60 rupees.” So when he said 4 million minute like “You mean rupees?” I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. And he says, I can you say it with a straight face. He says, “This is a death sentence case my friend, dollars.” I'm like, “You take check?”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:32] Yeah, exactly.

Erik Aude: [00:17:33] That’s so fucking ridiculous.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:34] Unbelievable.

Erik Aude: [00:17:35] I had no fighting chance because everyone was just trying to capitalize off of my situation. Everyone was--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:40] Geez.

Erik Aude: [00:17:41] No one wanted to help me. They just wanted to fuck me over. That's all I wanted to do. That's all they wanted to do. They didn't see a human being in a bad situation.

They saw a way to capitalize.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:48] So you're this Liam Neeson movie or whatever. Beaten up other prisons?

Erik Aude: [00:17:52] Well, no, they put me in death row.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:54] I haven't been in any fights in death row. Death row is pretty fucking tame and I'm waiting to go to the court on the second. Then I get there on the second and then that's where I find out the one lawyer that my mom tried to get wanted $25,000. I'm like, “Nope, you're fired.” I said, this is bullshit. It's $400 case and the courts give me a date for two weeks later. “What the fuck, man?” Why does everything take so long? I just want to get bailed. I'm told because I'm a foreigner, I can't get bailed out. I'm trying to figure out everything I can. So all I'm doing when I'm back in prison is trying to figure out the steps to take the workforce, just to get a simple lawyer, someone to fight on my behalf.

That's all it means, trying to get someone to fight on my behalf is pulling fucking teeth. But the very few people speak English. So I'm having to learn what's being done in Urdu and that's my best chance. But that's the only thing I can figure out that will help me do this.

[00:18:43] So I'm shredding papers and I'm writing 20 to 40 words a day and I'm just learning. I'm doing flashcards, I'm not fucking with my time. I'm running 20 to 40 words a day, and this is starting to open up the dialogue with how to communicate me first. I'm learning like simple things like greetings and foods and directions and whatnot. Now I'm starting to learn words like, Okay, what is going to happen? Why is this happening? How can I get out of here? How much will it cost? Who do I need to pay to make this happen? And so people are like more amazed that I can start speaking the language and they're like amused but their speaks so quick and not processing it. I'm saying what I need to say but I'm not processing what I need to understand. And the judge is just keep delaying the case, delaying the case, delaying the case. It would take almost six months before I finally got a lawyer that wasn't trying to charge, you know 30, 40, $50,000. But the lawyer I finally got was a lawyer who was recommended from one of the two-star superintendents and he was getting a kickback from it. But this guy only wanted $2,000, which is five times more what I should be paying. But it's way the fuck less than what I've been getting charged.

[00:19:50] And I'm like, “All right, well, I just need someone in my corner fighting for me. So I pay this, this lawyer $2,000, and I'm getting my money from the embassy and my mom. But the embassy, well, Christy is no longer at the embassy at this time. She was only there for four months. Well, they left all, all in charge of my accounts. I was all as the Pakistani interpreter who is supposed to be in charge of my accounts. Now, all this guy, his job was to come and see me every month and bring me my money. Well then he stops showing up. This guy just stopped showing up and I didn't understand. So here I was feeling like the neighbor's dog not getting fed because the guy who's supposed to be helping me isn't showing up. But I hear that he is telling them he's been showing up.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:29] Oh man.

Erik Aude: [00:20:30] So the dudes jacking me. This guy's supposed to be helping me, has been jacking me this whole time. So now I got to get money in through another way. So my mom, I'm able to call my mom. What are the superintendents? A two star guy named a Hugh. He wanted his son to get H1 visa. He says, if your mom -- so he kept letting me use a phone to call my mom to help her son get H1 visa. And I was able to communicate in that sense. And I tell her, “Look, just humor, this guy, tell him we're going to get a son a H1 visa edge would be, you said you're going to work on it. But what I need you to do, I gave her the Wells Fargo information to give money to a religious teacher.

[00:21:02] Now, a religious teacher in Pakistan can come and go out of the prison as they pleased. They don't get searched. They don't get the mean, because religious teachers are very respected people over there. But they're also one of some of the most corrupt sons of bitches out there. And they'll smuggle anything in a prison. I mean anything, drugs, weapons, alcohol, money. The guy was working for me. We'd go every month would bring in $400 US, which is 24,000 rupees. And an exchange, he'd do it for 500 rupees. That's a big deal for him. That's roughly 10 bucks.

Jordan Harbinger: [0:21:33] Sure.

Erik Aude: [00:21:34] But he was bringing me in 24,000. If he had fucked me though, I would've just let everyone else know and they would stop using him. So he had a good thing going and he was making a lot of money by bringing me the money. Like he would literally come to my cell in middle of the night, just hand me a big wad of cash. I give him 500 rupees back, and that's done. Because he wants to do this again every month. The system money.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:52] So he gave you a cell phone?

Erik Aude: [00:21:53] I didn't get a cell phone from him originally. I got a cell phone through the [Cantina][00:21:58], the [Cantina][00:21:58] the first time I ever got a cell phone. They had a [Cantina][00:22:01] coming in there. So no one wants to bring things in because they're afraid that if they bring you something in and you get caught, you're rat them out. Or sometimes if you go through a guard, they'll sell it to you. They'll bring it to you, but then they'll go and rat you out so their devil divvied.

[00:22:15] They sold to you and they know you got it. So they're going to go and say, Hey, oh, they got it. Now go shake him down. So you got to be careful who you trust to brings things in. There's all kinds of ways to do it. You can't just say, “Hey, I need this. Bring it in.” The guard started working for me because they started understanding me a little bit, but they needed to make money. I'd say, “Hey, you guys aren't going to beat it at him anymore. I'm hungry though, go get me some fruit.” I'll give you 100 rupees. 100 rupees is less than two bucks for me, but for them that's a lot of money. These guys are making only a 100 rupees a day. That's nothing.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:42] So you're doubling their daily salary to keep you fed.

Erik Aude: [00:22:44] Oh, these guys, these guards all started making crazy good money off of me because I needed things to help my time pass. I wanted things to help my time pass. I needed books to learn the language. I needed law books so I can understand how to fight my case. I wanted things like to make my time pass better. So I want to VCDs, VCD players, video games, food, they'll bring you in anything in that prison. I wasn't dealing with drugs, women or alcohol. I was dealing with things that would make your time go by, but I was literally the first person to get a cell phone into that prison because there's no guarantee that you're going to get a reception. The only time I was able to use a phone was up in the office and on the second story, standing on a box crate in the corner next to all these files and files and files to try and get reception that would keep dropping all the time.

[00:23:29] So down there, I mean we're in the middle of nowhere. We're in the middle of nowhere. This prison is surrounded by desert and so cell phone towers, it's hit or miss. A phone cost, 200 bucks roughly over there. That's a lot of money, that’s 12,000 rupees, and I took a gamble. So first I needed to get my money in. So I'm getting $24,000, 24,000 rupees in there. But I'm using that to win a deal, bribe people and start making my own stuff happen. But also I took a gamble, I ordered a phone from the [Cantina][00:24:00] and I paid that guy a lot of money take a risk to get that phone in. His exact words are like, “It's not going to work.” Well, let's see if it works. Phone gets in there, I can find a signal, but I can only find a signal at the top of this locker that I had brought over from B class that I can get on top of it. And I would put the phone on like a little nail in the wall. So that was steady and then the cord would come there. So that--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:22] A little headset? Yeah.

Erik Aude: [00:24:22] Yeah. So that I got a good signal in that one little spot that really helped me out though. So I can talk with my family and friends once a week. But because I got that first cell phone in too, I could also do a lot of willing to deal in and out because the embassy wasn't bringing my money anymore. I had to start hustling inside prison. I could rent that phone out, which I would run out all the time. In case someone tries to rat me out though, I need to get another phone. I couldn't be bringing the phones in all the time because a [Cantina] [00:24:48] guy, if too many were coming in, he would get cold feet.

[00:24:52] Now there were four hijackers there. The hijackers were the Palestinian hijackers. These guys were responsible for 23 deaths back in 1986 on that US aircraft that they boarded in Karachi and they executed two people. But the Pakistani command is boarded the plane and killed 21 other people in the crossfire. So they were convicted of two of the deaths. But the Pakistani commandos were responsible for 21 other deaths.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:16] That’s pretty sloppy.

Erik Aude: [00:25:17] Very sloppy. But these guys had been in that prison since it opened up in 1986. Now when they were first there, they were under 24-hour security. They had search lights, barbwire, they had chains on their legs 24/7, because they said that the Pakistani authorities were afraid of helicopter would come in and it helped them escape. Well, as time went by, they did a bunch of hunger strikes and they started to get little privileges, little by little. And over time by the time I get there, these guys are the most respected prisoners in the prison. The guards had grown up with them. They were kids when they went there, but now the guards would have lunch, breakfast, and dinner with these guys. They all had their own cells. They all were all left alone. They were celebrities in the prison, but they had the most privileges that they name and understand. They just being left alone is considered a huge privilege. Having your own cell is considered a huge privilege, and anything they want for need, the guards would get without going out turning them in, without getting them in trouble, because the guard respected these guys and they'd grown up with them. They eat with them all the time.

[00:26:17] So these guys had something that I absolutely needed and that was the connection to the guards. Like if I dealt with the guards, the guards will fuck me over in a heartbeat, in a heartbeat. And I knew that. So I took a stab with the hijackers. I met the hijackers through [IU][00:26:33] but just a
random meeting. [IU][00:26:34] took me over there like, “Hey, let's go have lunch dinner. It'd be cool.” Be careful the hijackers they’ll hijack you. He thought it I was funny and that these guys are split to hate America. But these guys ended up becoming my best fucking friends in prison. They end up becoming my brother's in prison. Now one of the hijackers, a guy named Ali, he wasn't actually on the plane. He was the one who organized all the police uniform, the police van and all the weapons. And that's how he got caught. Because when they got arrested, they started ratting everyone out. They mentioned his name. He stayed in the country because of a girl.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:02] Oh man.

Erik Aude: [00:27:03] And that had he left when it all happened, he would've gotten out in time. But he stayed a couple of days because of a girl and that's how he got caught.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:09] Ooh.

Erik Aude: [00:27:10] Now Ali though, loved chess and love books, that man could read anything. He was a speed reader, which kind of is not something you want to be in prison. You want something that's going to take your time.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:19] Sure.

Erik Aude: [00:27:20] So Ali was always asking “Do you have any magazines? Do you have any books?” Embassy was always bringing me magazines and I had a bunch of books that the Embassy was also bringing me, like the Embassy brought me boxes and boxes of just books from the library that no one was reading. And I go like, “This guy's going to be here busy. So they brought me like two huge boxes of just books, which I would end up devouring, and I would give them to Ali.

[00:27:37] Now Ali would always send them back and everything and he'd read them everything else. Do you have anything else? I've said read this Harry Potter book. You're going to fucking love it. There's a Goblet of Fire. It's a huge book. I said, “Read this book. You're going to like it.” He sent it back goes, “I don't want to read it.” I said, “I promise you you're going to like this book. Just fucking read it. That's where I hid the cell phone.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:59] Oh.

Erik Aude: [00:27:59] Because it's so big. I was able to hide a cell phone in that book. Because of me, the hijackers were allowed to talk to their families for the first time in 17 years.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:07] Oh my gosh. So they love you at this point.

Erik Aude: [00:28:09] I got something from them that I absolutely needed. I got loyalty. I had loyalty and I needed their connections. So those guys had my back for everything after that, because of me, they were able to speak to the family. It's the first time, 17 years now. I told the hijackers, now that they knew the phones would work, they all want to fill in as themselves.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:26] Sure.

Erik Aude: [00:28:26] So I said, use your connections. So they started bringing in phones for me. And so the guards didn't know I was getting them in. They figured the hijackers are getting them.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:36] Okay.

Erik Aude: [00:28:36] So the hijackers were my protection basically, but I was the one who was in charge of everything. So yes, all the hijackers got the phones in, but I was selling them all over the prison because now everyone knew I was the guy to go to for cell phones, and that was how I was able to start making my money in prison. I was able to use the money that my mom would send, but I was able to start making money and ends meet there. So I was the guy who kept you for cell phones, for VCD players, for work. All the guards started working for me in that prison. I was running poker tournaments.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:04] You were running poker tournaments in prison. So you started playing poker in prison.

Erik Aude: [00:29:08] The first time I ever picked up a hand of poker was on death row.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:11] In Pakistan.

Erik Aude: [00:29:12] In Pakistan. I mean, I haven’t been in death row anywhere else.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:14] Right, yeah, just clarifying how weird this is that you're playing Texas Hold Em with Palestinian hijackers.

Erik Aude: [00:29:20] Well no, not at the Palestinian.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:22] Oh, okay.

Erik Aude: [00:29:23] It is the Pakistani. So the Palestinians weren't on death row. The Palestinians were one cell. I was in -- eventually after I got moved off the death row, I got moved off the death row after nine and a half months to two cell. By that time though, I had already become friends with Ali through the letter network through the books, because he wanted my books and my magazines, and then when I got moved to two cell, I could talk to these guys over the wall and our relationships struck more of a chord and I go over and eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner with them.

[00:29:49] But when I was on death row, I learned how to play poker from Maraud. Maraud was my best friend on death row. He was a man that knew very little English but more English than anyone else. And it was through him that I started learning Urdu a lot quicker. He would always correct me. He always answered my questions. Just a friendly, friendly, friendly guy. And he taught me the game of Texas Hold 'Em Poker and it's because of what he taught me to this day that I still make a living playing.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:30:18] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Eric Aude. We'll be right back.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:22] This episode is sponsored in part by Calm. A new year brings an opportunity to reset, establish new habits for our happiest, healthiest selves, joining a gym, eating better. You know the drill. But improving physical health isn't the only resolution to consider. We can resolve to improve our mental wellbeing too, and God knows I do that every year. That's why we're excited to partner with Calm, which I've been using for a long time. I love this app. It's the number one app to help you sleep. And trust me, it works for that. Meditate and relax. If you had to calm.com/jordan, you get 25% off a Calm premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programs, including guided meditations on issues like anxiety, stress, focus, including a brandnew meditation each day called the daily Calm. And what I like about this is, it's not just like think of nothing, block everything out of your mind. Don't think of anything at all. It's like, “Look, you're trying to get rid of some anxiety, some stress. You want to focus, whatever. They've got stuff for that. There's also sleep stories, which are bedtime stories for adults and they're designed to help you relax before you doze off. You can head to the lavender fields of France with Stephen Fry, which by the way is an awesome way to go to sleep, or explore New Zealand with Jerome Flynn from Game of Thrones. Bob Ross is in there too. I mean this is, they know what they're doing when it comes to this. They're soothing music, breathing exercises, gentle stretches to relax your body and all that stuff. Jason, tell them how to grab some calm and their lives.

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Jason DeFilippo: [00:33:50] To take advantage of our special offer, you can sign up at hoteltonight.com or download their iOS or Android app and use promo code JORDANH to get $25 off your first eligible booking. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordan.com/deals and don't forget Erica Aude’s worksheet. That link is going to be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast, and now for the harrowing conclusion with Eric Aude.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:23] This is crazy. And this guy Maraud was in prison for like killing his wife's family or something like.

Erik Aude: [00:34:29] Yeah, he was in prison for killing his wife's family members, and then all of you, how in depth do you want me to go on that, but--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:35] If we can talk about that, I thought that was pretty interesting because at first you think this is a horrible person and then you realize that he--

Erik Aude: [00:34:41] I think he just had the row’s deal. I think he did what any man on this planet would do. Him and his wife were in love and in Pakistan, that's the big, no, no. You need to -- it's all arranged marriages, who your families want you to be with. It's not who you want to be with. Well, him, his wife fell in love on their own and they had to go into hiding to be together and while they were in hiding and their families refuting, it was Romeo and Juliet, and each family was accusing the other one of hiding the couple and they were killing each other. They were just doing everything, demoralizing and humane to one another. What brought him out of hiding was his mother and sister were both kidnapped, gang raped and murdered by his wife's family members.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:22] Oh my God.

Erik Aude: [00:35:23] And he set up an ambush for his wife’s family members, killing 11 of them. What happened to him. His whole situation is not isolated. It happens a lot in Pakistan, it's the way things are. Maraud was just another dude to me, he was a good dude to me, and he was kind to me, and he would end up sharing his last meal with me and having it prepared, so that I'd enjoy it, not him. And he didn't even tell me that it was his last meal. He had it prepared so nothing was spicy, and I hated spicy food, but he had it prepared so that I enjoyed it and he didn't even tell me. And till this day, it's still the nicest thing anyone's ever done for me. And it was by a man named Maraud on death row.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:10] I think about that guy when I hear about Maraud and he just seems like it's such a tragic thing, but he clearly was like you in some ways where he had the row’s deal, but he still managed to find positivity and seems almost like he was just such a good guy, even inside, all the way up until the end.

Erik Aude: [00:36:32] Yeah, no, he was, he was, he was. I mean, I don't know how he didn't tell me.

I really don't. I don't know, man.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:40] He didn't want you to feel bad.

Erik Aude: [00:36:41] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:43] He didn't want you to feel bad or be emotionally. He wanted to enjoy his last day on Earth with his friend.

Erik Aude: [0:36:49] It's [indiscernible][00:36:49] That's we did.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:50] Yeah.

Erik Aude: [00:36:50] We were just boys that day. We ate, we played chess, we played poker, we talked about life and when I said, I'll see you next week. He says, inshallah. And I never saw him again. He was hung in the next morning.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:04] Inshallah means like God willing, right?

Erik Aude: [00:37:05] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:05] Yeah. Unbelievable. Oh man. So while you're in prison, what's going on with Rai Gharizian back in fricking Glendale or whatever in your case. What's going on with this guy who clearly set you up? What's happening with this guy?

Erik Aude: [00:37:20] Six months after I’m in jail, a new DEA member comes and meets with me in prison. I’m brought up to the front and he shows me two papers with six faces on each one of them. All mugshots. First paper, I don't recognize anyone on, but the second one, I immediately go, “That's Rai. That's Rai Gharizian.” He goes, “All right, well, I tell him the story.” Rai Gharizian was arrested in Glendale because a Swedish woman working from him, doing the same thing I was doing, lost her luggage at JFK airport. But she continued on her itinerary to LAX. They found in the walls of her suitcase professionally concealed also opium. So they set up this thing. They arrested both her and Rai Gharizian, except he posted bail under the name Razmik Minasian. So when he posted bail, my mom's private investigator, my mom's private investigator at this time was the only one looking for this guy because these guys are like, well, Eric's a drug smuggler. We can't find this guy. It made no sense why they couldn't find them. It really didn't because I had his name. Everyone at the gym knew him. So why was it so difficult to find this man? Well, it was difficult because it wasn't his real name. I'd known this man for years. I consider him one of my best fucking friends and I never even knew his real name.

[00:38:27] What else had he lied to me about? Why would he lie to me about his name? Because he was setting me up from the beginning. He was setting everyone up from the beginning and the only way we were able to find out because this dickhead didn't miss a beat. He continued to go on having people unknowingly smuggle opium from. So that Swedish woman got caught, got arrested, but with him and he was able to pose bell. But when my mom was proud, investigator brought it to the investigators in charge of this case. He said, “That's the same guy that set up Erik.” All right, he's got a different aliases. They go that always got different aliases. They rearrested him simply on that information, denied him bell knowing now that he's got different aliases, they let the Swedish girl go back to your country without being charged with in less than two weeks. Simply because her story matched mine and several others, they deemed her a dupe. A dupe is someone who has no idea they're being used to smuggle anything illegal. A mule is somebody who knows they're smuggling something illegal.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:21] Gotcha.

Erik Aude: [00:39:21] A mule is in on it. A dupe has no fucking clue and it happens all the time. So when I got that information, I was happy. I was like, all right, my being in jail helped a woman not be in jail. So something good finally came from some from this holy shit, something good probably came from this. So I said to the guy, now that you got the real guy, what's going to happen? When do I get to go home? And I can tell from the DEA is an expression. He was sad in a sense, but he was also very kind of confused and I just saw something was wrong and he says to me, he goes, “Look, if this had happened in America, you'd be going home tonight. But because it's here in Pakistan, you have to go through the legal system and I'm facing a possible death sentence,” and you're not being told by the embassy who up until this point had made fun of me. Everyone but Christy, the new counselors, Christy was cool. She was respectful, but everyone else had made fun of me. Maybe next time you'll pack a little lighter. Maybe next time you won't get so greedy. They see you in jail. So they assume you're there because you deserve to be there because that's what they want to do.

[00:40:23] This guy says to me, I've never seen this before. I've never seen someone that was actually innocent. So here he is sitting across the table from me telling me he knows I'm innocent and that he can't do anything for me. It’s fucked up, man. So fucked up. The embassy, the embassy likes to make fun of you. They like to put it on you, but the truth is it's on them. They could do something. They could have done something. Even if I had been guilty, they could have done something, but now that they knew that I was innocent, it's not that they could do something that's that they won't because they don't want to muddy the waters as they say. They don't want to drip. They said if it was a visa violation or a murder case, they can get involved. But because it’s narcotics related, zero tolerance, no matter what the circumstances. They need to be way the fuck flexible on that because I 100 percent believe that a lot of people go to jail for shit they don't do sure, especially in narcotics related, especially in our narcotics related, and the embassy just doesn't give a shit. They could've gotten me out and I know this because after they Iraqi war, they didn't just do it once, they did it twice for two huge groups of Iraqis under the guise of, “Oh, we're helping the Iraqi refugees go back to their country now.” So they were the going around to all the different countries and taken out all the Iraqi prisoners.

[00:41:38] Now all the Iraqi prisoners were not refugees. They were criminals in there, they were rapists in there, they were murderers in there, they were drug smugglers in there. But Pakistan is like, fucking let's get rid of all the Iraqis. So they said, “Oh yeah, they're all refugees.” Bullshit! We’re not all refugees. The first one, they got a couple dozen. Second time, they didn't get nearly as many, but they took out a whole group of people, not once but twice and did that all for another country’s citizens. But they wouldn't do it for one of their own. They wouldn't do it for one of their own. Someone they knew was innocent. Now here I am on death row after nine and a half months ago, I’ve got taken off a death row. But they can't put me in the general population.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:13] It’s too dangerous.

Erik Aude: [00:42:13] Yeah, and the only reason I got taken off is because a new superintendent came to the prison. And when new superintendents come to prison, they shake the system up. We got change it, and when they go in they start searching out of prison. And “Why is this guy on death row?” He's not convicted. And IU like, “Well, this safest place for him.” We want to keep him safe. People were trying to kill this guy. He goes, “All right, well, put them in the barracks.” “No, we can't put on the barracks, he'll be dead.” So they said, “Okay, put them in one cell.” So they can't put me on one cell, that's where the hijackers are. Any of the hijackers are my boys, they want to put me with the hijacker. I said, okay, put him two cell. That's where the NAB prisoners are. The National Accountability Bureau prisoners. They're like politicians and people with money who you know are arrested for corruption. They're not violent prisoners. So they put me in two cell. So this is after nine and a half months.

[00:42:57] Now. I've been going back and forth to court, 50 plus times. January 3rd, 2003. All right, 11 and a half months roughly. I've been in jail. I'm offered a deal, Eric, and the embassies helped me with this now, because now they're not making fun of me as much. Now they understand that, “Wow, this assholes are actually innocent.” “Okay, we've got good news for you. Judge is going to give you a two year prison sentence.” Well that's fucking great. That's good. That's great. That's great news. They go “With good behavior remissions and a little bribes. You'll probably be out of here within four months.” I said okay, that's wonderful. Okay, but here's the catch. Pakistan doesn't want to look bad by saying they kept a guy in jail for a crime he didn't commit. So you have to plead guilty. I mean, that was just like a punch in the face after everything I've been through, after everything I've been through and these guys want me to plead guilty to boot. It's not an option for me. I said “I didn't do this. I can't plead guilty for crime I didn’t commit.” And I hadn't made my decision up, but I was arguing it be like, “This is bullshit. Why the fuck should I ever have to plead guilty for crime I didn’t commit?” That's just adding so much insult to injury, you know.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:00] Sure.

Erik Aude: [00:44:02] And it was the Pakistani interpreter [Razhal] [00:44:04] who says to me, he goes, Eric, what's worth more to you? Your pride or your freedom? Like for him it was like a no brainer.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:10] Sure.

Erik Aude: [00:44:11] But to me that was everything. And he made me ask myself that what is worth more to me, my pride or my freedom? And right then and there, I already knew my answer. There was no way in hell I was going to plead guilty for a crime I didn't commit. So I got presented from the judge and judges expecting to get paid. He's expecting me to pay 1,000 bucks, 60,000 rupees. He says, “You wish to change your plea.” I said, “No, not guilty.” And he had me go outside and talk to my attorney again, and Missy tried to talk to him again, went back inside. I said, “Not guilty.” He says, “All right, the prosecution is proven his case against you. And I'm just thinking like this guy's going to give me 25 years to life in prison or death. And he gave me seven years and I was happy. I was fucking happy when I got 7 years. 7 years is harsh as fuck, but I was being charged with, because there was dudes who were -- there was a guy who was arrested with like five tons of hashish and that dude got three years and there was this French woman was arrested with like 15 kg heroin. She got two years, usually it's pound for pound, for a year. So everyone's like, you need to get like two, three years. That's the norm. But everyone pays off the judge, they pay all the prosecution. They'd pay off the narcotics police to like sample it and say, “Oh, it wasn't as much as we thought originally.” So they bring down from a 9c to 9b to 9a. These are different class of systems for punishment for the narcotics. So seven years is like two years per kg because I was arrested with 3.6 kg, which is fucking harsh. It's seven years pretty much a death sentence in that prison.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:46] You got the pride versus freedom question. But not a lot of people ever have to -- not a lot of people ever have to deal with this choice or face this choice. I don't think I would have made the same choice and I don't know many people that would have. Why is this so important to you? You know, because there's people right now watching that are going, “Wait, let me get this straight. You just didn't want to tell these a-holes what they wanted to hear and go free in six and a half years early. What the hell?”

Erik Aude: [00:46:12] Because I know me, I know me. I mean no one's ever going to know you better than you. And I know that if I had pled guilty for this, it would have just hit at me. I would've felt so much shame and eventually I would've probably ended up killing myself, just not being able to look at myself in the mirror anymore. So I knew that it was going to hurt, but I knew that I needed to go through it in order to save my life. And that's the reason, because I wouldn't have been able to live with myself had I pled guilty for crime I didn’t commit because after that, I already know. People would've said, “Come on, man. If you were innocent, then why you plead guilty?”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:42] Right, yeah.

Erik Aude: [00:46:43] People were fucking cruel as it is now, with all the evidence in front of them.

I wasn't going to make it easier for them. I was too stubborn. I was too fucking stubborn. I'd already have everything taken away from me. I wasn't going to give them. This is the only thing I had left and I was going to hold onto it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:56] Well, knowing what little I know about you, that totally checks out. That you are too stubborn to do that. I would not have guessed, I wouldn't have guessed otherwise. Knowing you here. Okay, so you understand what's going to happen to you. You got your sentence. Some guy now is trying to kill you in prison. What's going on?

Erik Aude: [00:47:13] Well, people are trying to kill me for a while now.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:16] Because this reward that’s on you?

Erik Aude: [00:47:17] Just one random day, because there would be a lot of things would set off in prison. When things would go bad, they go bad quick. Like riots would happen. Not often, often, but not to seldom either. A fight can turn into a brawl could easily turn into the prisoners finally getting together and one group of prisoners, the Indians beaten up the Pakistanis, like any of the Pakistanis fucking hate each other. So those guys are always going at it. And then it turns into a bunch, clothes being lit on fire, to a guard tower being lit on fire, to all the guards having to retreat back to the front of the prison to remobilize and then the prisoners taken over the prison and then two, three days and everyone trying to settle old scores. Now old scores being, “Hey, let's go collect that 5,000 rupee bail on the fucking American.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:01] Oh yeah.

Erik Aude: [00:48:02] So I had people firebombing my cell. I would go back over to the hijackers because the hijackers always backed me up, and the foreigners would have to bond together. Foreigners being anyone that wasn't Pakistani, the Nigerians, the South Africans, the French and everything. Like even the Indians are considered foreigners. It's, but the Pakistanis by far outnumber everyone. It is just the way it is. Now when I was going over to the hijackers’ cell, I was trying to get through like crowds and throngs of people and people were fighting and doing it and you got smoke and fires happening everywhere. I was walking through the crowd. All of sudden I feel this super strong pain in my stomach. And I realized this guy was, he had a lighter that he had melted over a piece of metal, so they have a handle.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:45] Oh, I see. Yeah.

Erik Aude: [00:48:46] Stuck a knife in my fucking stomach and he was trying to slice it sideways. So I grabbed him by the wrist and I immediately started jabbing this dudes eye out because I don't want him to keep cutting me. Someone jumped on my back and had a knife in my shoulder and I fell over, and everyone around me, I'm trying to keep this dude. I can't do anything about the guy on my back, but I'm trying to keep this guy's hand from moving around and you know. And I can't pull it out because now I've been pushed on top of it. So I feel someone coming and I immediately go down expecting someone to kick me in the face. And it was [Farhaud] [00:49:13] who pulled the guy off my back and the hijacker surrounded me to keep everyone else back.

[00:49:18] And it gave me a fighting chance against the guy underneath me. So I pulled this dudes eyeball out of his skull because I mean, it's survival at that moment. I had to do some mean fucking thing in prison.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:28] Oh yeah, no judgements.

Erik Aude: [00:49:30] Haunts me to this day, you know. That absolutely haunt me to this day. I got taken over to Ali's room. Ali had a little medical kit in his room and we use dental floss and we sewed up my own stomach.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:44] You stitched yourself?

Erik Aude: [00:49:44] Yeah, we stitched, Ali had a thread and needle and well he had, sorry, he had a needle thread, but we put dental floss in. He used dental floss to stitch myself up and then he cleaned up my back. But when shit like that would go down, that was probably the worst of it. The closest they got to getting me, the prisoners, when the shit would go down, I've tried to go and hang with the hijackers and we ride it out. We'd locked the cells outside and a lot of prisoners, who didn't want shit and it'd be part of the nonsense. We'll try to like barricade the cell blocks so that none of the assholes can get in. And it could be days before the guards got control over the prison again and we would ration out the food amongst ourselves from the food that we had in ourselves and we protect each other. That would happened a lot. People try to kill me, the guy who tried to kill me one on one. I was in my garden, I had this garden, this back path, and I was always working. It's like always summer, during the summers, the heat would get for anywhere from 120 to 137 degrees. It's fucking hot.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:39] A 137 degrees.

Erik Aude: [00:50:41] Yeah. Oh yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:43] Oh my God. I can't even imagine.

Erik Aude: [00:50:44] You think it's hot here? No, it's nothing. The heat doesn't bother me here anymore. Over there, it doesn't just get high, gets wet hot because a monsoon season. And the first year I was passing out all the time because the heat was so bad.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:55] You’re just fainting?

Erik Aude: [00:50:56] Oh yeah. But I forced myself to get used to it. And the way I was able to do that is I would go out and jog 25 yards, 64 times just because there was a small little corridor I would run back and forth 64 times and that was roughly a mile. And I do it between two or sorry, 12 and 1, the hottest part of the day.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:14] Oh man.

Erik Aude: [00:51:15] And the reason I was doing that was to make my body temperature go up as much as possible. There's a couple of reasons because I was always getting in fucking fights with dipshits and the guards, and so I needed my endurance. Keep in mind during the Summer was absolutely crucial to stay in alive. Also, if I ever felt like there was ever a chance to escape, at least I'd have the endurance to fucking run. Long distance is my thing. And another thing I was doing was I was trying to get my body used to the heat as much as possible because I was always passing out that first fucking year. The first fucking year, I was always on death row, so I didn't have the opportunity to run. But when I got taken off of death row, I got put in two cell and there was a small little corner that it can do it. So all the Pakistanis would be in the shade, just hot sweating and they see dickhead American go out there and start running back and forth.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:57] Shuttle run and stuff.

Erik Aude: [00:51:57] They were like, “What the hell?” And then when I went back into my cell, it felt cold. It felt, “Wow, I felt so great.” I'd go and take a bath real quick and whatnot. But I just got some great exercise out and now my cell was tolerable, the heat was manageable and I started getting used to the heat and it was because of that running every day that I would do between 12 noon and 1 p.m. So as time started going by, when it was hot in the afternoons, no one would ever go out into the yards. They just stay in the shade underneath the fan and sweat and wait for it to cool down before they go out. And do their prayers at the end of the night or early morning. And so they gave me my time to be out in the garden on my own.

[00:52:39] Well I have a green thumb. I always had a green thumb. I just I don't know. It gave me something to do to turn something so nasty and awful. I remember the gardens were all messed up that people would throw their trash out there, broken glass. The ground was so hard from the sun cooking the Earth. But then when monsoon season came, it made the ground soft and I was able to start going and popping all the rocks out of the ground because the whole ground looked like it was pimpled with all these rocks. And I start popping them out because I found this like this bar, the kind of bar that you would see in walls and everything. And I was able to start using that, the popping all the rocks and I started making borders and making the ground smooth.

[00:53:18] And then I would see that the weeds that were there, I'd start putting all the weeds together to grow the lawn out. I started buying plants from around the prison and give the guards some cigarettes to bring me some flowers, some trees, and the guards would bring me stuff when I started cleaning up the place and putting all the trash in one spot, some set of people throwing the trash out there and just lighten up pits everywhere. They started putting it all in one corner. The one guard saw that what I was doing, thought it was cool, started of ordering all the trash taken to the dump at the end of the day rather than throwing there, and it cleaned up the yard, and people started coming out and wanting to hang out there, and people would even use my lawn to dry their clothes with.

[00:53:57] And I figured if I'm going to be here, I'm going to make it my home. I'll make it look good. I had all the sales, I had all the sewage pipes behind all the sales because they had all rusted and shit would come out and everything and that would attract flies. There'd be millions and millions of flies and maggots and bugs and everything. So I ordered an outside plumber to come in and fix the back of all the cells and this cleaned it up. And this made it to where the fly problem was a little bit more manageable, set of millions of flies. It was thousands of fly, big fucking difference. It smelled better. It looked better. And it was a lot cleaner, a lot nicer. So I'm out in this yard working just, that's all I do is just you know, you have a small little tool and I just kept using my wrist to make the ground soft and everything so that it looked good and taking the weeds out.

[00:54:44] And I look up the path and I see this guy hop a wall and never seen him before. He had a hat and a beard and everyone's always got beards there, and he had a prison outfit. But he hops the wall and he comes walking towards me. I don't know if he's bringing me a message or whatnot, but you're also always aware, that you can always tell something's wrong by the way people are through their gestures, and something was wrong with this guy. I see him coming up. I don't understand what his deal is, but I look in his hand, I see something -- he's holding something in his hand and he starts to run towards me. So I stood up and I picked up a rock and I threw the rock at him because he was running straight at me and he started swinging around and got really close and I was trying to get the knife, but also I didn't want to get stabbed. So I had his body between me and the knife and he was like swinging out to the right. And I ended up a snapping his neck and killing him. And that was a no, that wasn't a intended.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:53] You still feel bad about that, huh?

Erik Aude: [00:55:55] Oh yeah, man, if there's a hell I'm going there for sure. I mean, I went to jail for shit I didn't do and I--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:00] Well, I don't know if they're going, I wouldn't say that. Yeah. I don't know.

Erik Aude: [00:56:03] And yeah, man, I didn't ever want him to.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:04] I mean, he tried to kill you to be fair.

Erik Aude: [00:56:07] Oh, I never wanted to kill anyone and that happen. [Farhaud] [00:56:13] heard me over the wall and he said, “Are you all right?” [Farhaud] [00:56:18] is the youngest of the hijackers. Told them what happened, his exact are “Fucking Pakis!” And he hopped the wall and he said help them and we both through the body over the wall and he, we lifted a sewer great at the end of one cell and put them in there. And he says, “All right, you hungry?” We went and ate lunch. The prison found the guy three days later and they said, “Oh, he killed himself by throwing himself in the sewage.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:46] Oh yeah. I mean whatever, at that point.

Erik Aude: [00:56:49] People died all the time in jail. People hung themselves all the time. People got killed all the time. People got killed all the time. It was survival of the fittest over there. It really was. And it sucked. That was literally one of the worst days of my life was having to do that. You go to jail for one thing and you come up with that shit.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:16] I think the scariest part of this for me and for my wife and everyone who's watched this documentary, which by the way, if you're not convinced by now to go see this and get this documentary, it's absolutely incredible. It's one of the best documentaries I've ever seen. The scariest part of this for me was you did your homework. You called the FBI and you asked. You asked for other people who had done this, you'd been friends with this guy for a really long time. Even 20-20 hindsight, I totally understand why you went there and transported leather goods and it seems fine. I myself was an air career when I was younger where you basically take art or some objects and you don't get to check your own bag, but you get to go to that country and you come back. Who knows what was in some of those packages that I was taking. Sure, it was through a company, but we all know how easy it is to set up a company and say that you're shipping something. Anybody can do this. Are you less trusting now than you were before? I mean, is this?

Erik Aude: [00:58:10] Yes, and you have to be. You have to be. I still get scammed. I get scammed all the time. I bought into a bunch of restaurants and I've invested in a bunch of businesses that weren't even legit. I've been invested in movies that had no intention of being made. I guess I had chump on my forehead because I have people hitting me up all the time for money for scams. Like, Oh my son's in the hospital.” It's not even your son. There's people are bad people, so you have to always keep yourself up because if you leave yourself open, the wrong kind of people will find a way to get in.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:48] Yeah.

Erik Aude: [00:58:48] Unfortunately, you have to be a trusting. I help out people when I can. I do all my charities, I do a lot of charities. It gives me meaning and purpose to help others out. But you have to really, be careful just when people come up and ask me for money, I say, “Hey, I won't give you money, but if you're hungry, I'll buy you a sandwich or something. I buy coffee.” I never thought someone would do this to somebody else, but it happened to me and I believe it happens to a lot of people. I truly think a large majority of people are in jail for crimes they didn't commit even in our own country. People caught police did things they didn't do because they're afraid of the consequences or fighting it. And they'll say, “Okay, look, I'll plead no contest, I'll take a misdemeanor. But if I fight it, I'm looking at three to five or longer.” And that happens in our own country and we're considered an educated country. I read all the time about people who were arrested at the border for drugs and whatnot. And I think how many of those people were actually guilty. You want to hope all of them are guilty, but the truth is not because like there was this woman who worked in Mexico, but she lived in Texas and she'd go back and forth over the border all the time. That was for commute. It was normal.

[00:59:57] Well, when she came back, she didn't go home. She went straight to a mechanic because you need to get some work done. The mechanic goes, we got a problem. Come here, shows her underneath her a car that there was a fake gas tank under there, pulls it off, sees that there's all these drugs on it.

She calls the cops on herself, “Hey look, this is my car. It's my job to go back and forth to the border. Mechanic found it. They deem her duty. They said she obviously didn't know because while you know, obviously, she doesn't know, she's not reporting herself.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:25] Sure.

Erik Aude: [01:00:24] But what would have happened if she'd been caught at the border?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:27] Sure, yeah. Who knows. So somebody figured out, she commuted and they were like, “Look, let's make a fake magnetic gas tank or whatever.”

Erik Aude: [01:00:35] And who knows how many times.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:36] Oh, I bet she's been doing it for years and have no idea.

Erik Aude: [01:00:39] Yeah. And you know, when I read that I was absolutely innocent stories, it happended to me.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:47] Yeah.

Erik Aude: [01:00:47] And I try to think outside the box now for people and it sucks, I hope I never get caught in that situation again. If someone even asked me to help him carry a couch, I say go to hell.

I won't ever help anyone else again. And unfortunately, being a little more hardened, it sucks, but it's just to protect myself because I don't want to have to go through that again. And people come out of the woodworks to me. I try to be positive with everyone. I get messages, countless messages from all over the world. But then like some people were like, “Hey, by the way, I'm doing this movie should invest in, apart for you, but it's a $7 million movie and we got to keep the office lights on. So just send us $3,000 a year.” “Fuck off, dude.”

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:28] Yeah, right, yeah.

Erik Aude: [01:01:30] We don't want to be in this movie or it's because you're a drug smuggler, all this shit. Oh no. Okay, good job. Now I can't sleep at night because you just hurt my feelings. Like no one's ever tried that before.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:37] Yeah, yeah, sure.

Erik Aude: [01:01:39] And some of the harshest people have contacted me over the world and scammers go lower and you know, like there was a friend of mine, this guy’s name is Allan. He says that he has a debt collection company. Loved my story, thought it was terrible because man, but you know, I've got a debt collection company, I buy people's debt and we like go after it and he wanted like $80,000 and I was like, “Nah, it's a lot of money to invest.” What do you want to invest? Like I don't really want to invest in anything. But let's start off small 5,300, how about that? And I know this guy for a while now, so I invested in this company as debt collection company. They got this little warehouse out there and a couple of guys and they tell me this is how it works and we call all the people up and started trying, we buy debt. We buy like a $100,000 for the debt, that’s what we're doing. And then I get an email from somebody who hacked into his email saying, “Do not trust this guy. He does his big debt collection company.” I was like, “Oh shit.” And he goes, “The guy got me for 60K, he really only got me for 5,300.” But I was like, “Man, I'm a magnet for bad people.”

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:37] You know, it happens a lot. It's happened to me. I'm skeptical by nature. It still happened to be.

Erik Aude: [01:02:41] It have to, man. You really have to be. I tell everyone, don't invest with friends or family. Just invest in yourself whether it's education or real estate, man. But don't invest in anyone’s businesses and nothing just -- and try to be happy. Otherwise, you know, it'll eat you up. You have to be happy. You have to force yourself to be happy. You have to look at the positives in life. You have to, you know, definitely keep your head on the swivel because someone will take advantage of that if you're not paying attention.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:03:04] What happened to Rai?

Erik Aude: [01:03:06] So after that Swedish girl got arrested. Rai was rearrested and denied both, but he wasn't the top guy. He was a middleman. His job was to hire idiots like myself to work for him so they didn't have to pay us what we're really used. Also, they figured we went on to all suspicion to ourselves because we didn't know we were being used to smuggle anything illegal. But him being a middleman and him being a scumbag, he had no problem ratting out everyone that he worked with. So the DEA back here in America was telling my mom they were helping me, but they weren't. What they're really doing is trying to keep her quiet so that she didn't go to the newspapers to say that, “Hey Rai, Gharizian

the real drug smuggler was news Razmik Minasian has been arrested because they didn't want all the people he worked with knowing that he was pitching in the mouth.

[01:03:48] So his information led to the biggest drug bust in Glendale history of like they arrested 18 plus Iranian, Armenian is a big, big opium bust, all because of his information. Now in exchange for that, he only got four and a half years in prison for his involvement in all that. But also he was promised to never be charged for anything he did to me. His records somehow got expunged which is bullshit, which I don't understand that work. So he was never punished for what he did to me at all.

[01:04:19] In 2007, obviously, I get a lawyer, I'm looking forward to sue in. The show's going to get a really good law firm to represent me. They may be able to do MRIs and we'd go to therapy. I had one therapist quit on the spot, says, “Look, I can't do this.” This is way above my pay grade. I was like, “Really isn't it your job?” He’s like, “Look, I can't do this. I'm sorry.” I was opening up to that dude. A month before my case is going to go to trial. The woman who was gung-ho, she's like, we have the best law firm. We have a team of people because I'm like worried. Like once we find this guy, how do we go after his funds and everything? And she goes, “We have a team of experts. They'll find it. We'll just keep on top of them. If he's got assets, we will find it.” And a month before we go to trial, she dies. My lawyer died.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:05:02] Geez.

Erik Aude: [01:05:03] And--

Jordan Harbinger: [01:05:04] You cannot catch a break. I don't have to tell you that and I don't mean to make light of it. But Jesus, man.

Erik Aude: [01:05:08] Well she had done all the groundwork already. So one of the underlings that her law firm still step in her place, finished the case. He wasn't very good, but he didn’t need to be because once I was on the stand the judge was just like, “Fuck man.” The judge is like crying kind of. He just--

Jordan Harbinger: [01:05:23] Sure, this is insane story. That's why I flew down here. This is incredible. Everything about this.

Erik Aude: [01:05:29] So I get awarded $20.4 million, that compounds 10% interest every year. Its back in ‘07, 11 years ago. So I'm owed close to $50 million now, probably more. But because the woman who was in charge of my case died, her law firm disbanded. And rather than anyone trying to pick up the slack and go after this phase, they just vanished. She was the heart and soul behind my case. I paid countless private investigators to try to go and find out what assets this man has to attach funds to it. And I spent close to $40,000 on dozens of different private investigators. The problem with Razmik Minasian is his name's like a John Smith. It's very common in the Armenian community. So they never know who he really truly is or what's truly his stuff. I've never been paid a penny back what he did to me. I've never made a penny. I've only spent money. I've only lost money. I've never made a cent though other than me playing myself on the show, locked up abroad because of what happened to me.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:32] Do you ever use your Urdu at all? No?

Erik Aude: [01:06:34] Yeah, mostly Hindi though. Urdu and Hindi are lot the same. It's like Irish, English, American-English. So when I go to 7/11 or liquor stores or gas stations and I see someone who -- I asked them, “Where are you from?” And that they tell me, from Pakistan or India, because they look a lot alike. I'll start to throw down a little Urdu or whatnot or I've worked on TV shows where there are a lot of Hindi speakers. They're just blown away. I've forgotten a lot. But then when I started practicing it and it all starts coming flushing back to me.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:01] What happens when they're like, “Hey, where'd you learn Urdu?” Are you like, “Oh I spent three years in a -- I don’t know.

Erik Aude: [01:07:05] I don't go out of my way to tell people.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:07] I figured.

Erik Aude: [01:07:08] And people automatically assume I serve. They go thank you for your service. I go, “Nope, never served.”

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:12] No.

Erik Aude: [01:07:13] Really, what are we doing over there? It’s not two minutes story. At least nowadays. Like I say, there is documentary, well watch it.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:18] That's right.

Erik Aude: [01:07:19] Answer all those questions. Because the first thing people -- when they hear drug smuggling or just drugs in general and prison, they assume you're a drug smuggler. They assume you did it and that you deserved it. And they start asking stupid questions like “How much are drugs worth?” And “Where can I get a fixed?” Now people will ask me for where I can get some cocaine. People are fucking idiots and they're heartless and I don't want to talk to anyone. I hate telling my story. I really hate it. I never wanted to be known for this. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be a stunt man. I wanted to be a comedian. I want to do, you know, be respected in the Hollywood community for making movies, making people laugh. I never wanted to be known for being a drug smuggler.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:55] Well, thanks for telling me your story, man. Thanks for sharing it with all of us. I think, like I said, I thought this documentary was awesome. That was one of the best ones I've ever seen. It made me realize how awesome you are. My wife and I were blown away. All of our family and friends who we told to watch this movie were blown away and everybody who watches this is going to realize that you're a rare dude. And thanks for spending time with me today, man.

Erik Aude: [01:08:18] No thank you for taking the time, man. I appreciate it.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:08:23] So all right everybody. Take a deep breath, crack open a beer or whatever you need to do because that was intense. I was not lying when I said this story was intense. What do you think, Jason?

Jason DeFilippo: [01:08:32] I thought it was amazing and the fact that he came out of this on the other side and use basically every skill in his toolbox and every life lesson that he'd ever learned to get through this. I don't know many people that could have survived that, at all. And plus, I really love how he used language learning to make it in there because you know he had to learn the language, otherwise he would have been dead in a week.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:08:52] Yeah. I think some people were like, “Oh, he sounds a little negative.” Part one, he was a little negative. Look, I won't disagree that he's got some negativity, but I also don't want to judge and be like, “He should just look on the bright side.” I mean the dude was locked up in hell for three years for something he didn't even do. Came out, there's even more stuff that happened. I mean he came out, people would like still, robbed him and stuff like while he was in prison because he couldn't do anything about it. Yeah, there's all kinds of stuff that had gone wrong and I don't really look at it as like, “Wow, he's this like super negative guy.” I don't see that at all. It's quite the opposite in fact. I think his done surprisingly well. He's a successful poker player investor. He's really nice person. He cares a lot for other people. I don't know if I would come out the same way.

Jason DeFilippo: [01:09:42] I don't know if you would come out at all.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:09:44] Yeah, I mean come out at all.

Jason DeFilippo: [01:09:46] I certainly wouldn't.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:09:47] Three days, three days in. All right, I did it. Hang me. Don't beat me up anymore. Like don't dump it into the water anymore. I mean that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to beat confessions out of you. Apparently, they haven't seen any of their research that says that doesn't work.

Jason DeFilippo: [01:09:59] Yeah, well it seems kind of like a pretty backwards ass country to me, but I think everybody needs to go get the documentary to see how this all turns out and how it ends.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:10:09] We'll link to that in the show notes. I believe you can just watch it on Amazon Prime Video and Vimeo and stuff like that as well. So it is worth the watch. It is -- it is really, really interesting. Three Years in Pakistan, The Erika Aude Story, just really. I've watched that. I was raving about it to all my friends and they were like, “All right, fine, we'll watch it.” And then the next day we had dinner and they were like, “I can't believe it.” So go ahead and see that. It's linked up in the show notes.

[01:10:32] And if you want to know how I managed to book great guests like this, I'm using my network, I'm using my relationships, I've got systems, I've got tiny habits that take literally like four to five minutes a day. I made a course about this, which is free over at jordanharbinger.com/course. And whenever I talk with people, they're like, “Oh, I meant to do it. I'll do that later. All it's in my February plan.” It's like, “Just stop BSsing.” Stop lying to yourself and me. The number one mistake I see people kicking the can down the road is they're not digging the well before they get thirsty. Once you need relationships, you're just too late. The drills are fast. I wish I knew this stuff a decade ago. Go get the class jordanharbinger.com/course. It's freaking free. Quit crying. Sheesh.

Jason DeFilippo: [01:11:14] And you definitely want to have these skills if you ever get picked up and thrown into Pakistani jail.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:11:18] Damn right.

Jason DeFilippo: [01:11:19] Seriously, get on it before -- get on it before you get on a plane.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:11:22] That's right. Speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Eric Aude. I'm @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, and this show is produced in association with PodcastOne and this episode was co-produced by Jason “Day and a Half in Pakistan” DeFilippo, and Jen Harbinger. Show notes by Robert Fogarty. Special thanks to Brian Argot for hooking up this guest as well. Worksheets by Caleb Bacon. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful. Hopefully that's in every episode, so please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got a lot more in the pipeline. I'm really excited for you to hear some of these 2019 shows. They're going to be phenomenal. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.