If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org. Now, let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- If anxiety is a conspiracy theory you tell yourself about yourself, how can you just debunk the hell out of it and get on with your life?
- Speaking of conspiracy theories, how do you snap your beloved parent out of believing everything seen on YouTube and [pick your biased media outlet of choice here]?
- Living abroad is massively rewarding, but not usually for the reasons people think. Here are some tips for giving it a real go before giving up if things don’t go as expected (and they won’t).
- Should your partner build themselves up to your level if they feel lower in the social value hierarchy, or should you let them take you down a peg or two for the sake of balance?
- As a new podcaster, are you having trouble with keeping a consistent publishing schedule? Here’s why we do what we do and how we keep ourselves on track.
- Are there any positives to living by the “I told you so” mentality?
- Tank’s Good News: Teenager Is on Track to Plant a Trillion Trees: Starting His Project as a Nine-year-old, Felix Finkbeiner Aims to Restore the World’s Forests by Laura Parker, National Geographic
- Recommendation of the Week: RBG Movie
- Quick shoutouts to Natasha Holmes, Jessica Clark, and Lexie!
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Jason on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks.
- Have Alexa and want flash briefings from The Jordan Harbinger Show? Go to jordanharbinger.com/alexa and enable the skill you’ll find there!
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!
Resources from This Episode:
- TJHS 105: Jennifer Dulski | Improving the World with Purposeful Possibilities
- TJHS 106: Scott Harrison | How to Quench the World’s Thirst with Charity
- Third Coast Festival
- Psychology Today Therapist Finder
- What a Sales Job Taught Me about Anxiety and Extroversion by Dr. Jonathan Horowitz, Elite
- “They’re Turning the Frogs Gay”: The Psychology Behind Internet Conspiracy Theories by Amelia Tait, New Statesman America
- How to Start over in a New City by Jordan Harbinger
- The Curious Artist
- Tank’s Good News
- Teenager Is on Track to Plant a Trillion Trees: Starting His Project as a Nine-year-old, Felix Finkbeiner Aims to Restore the World’s Forests by Laura Parker, National Geographic
- Plant for the Planet
- RBG Movie
Transcript for Stop Your Family from Believing Everything on the Internet | Feedback Friday (Episode 107)
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan harbinger. I'm here with producer, Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger Show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests. This week we had Jennifer Dulski talking about how to manage a team but be more than a manager, have a purpose driven team and it sounded a little woo when I initially thought about it, but it actually turned out really well. She was at the helmofchange.org and now she's over at Facebook as Head of Groups. So she had a lot to say from a very, very experienced standpoint. And speaking of purpose, we talked with Scott Harrison, a good friend of mine as well. He went from barely graduating high school to being a club promoter in New York City and just wrecking it in his 20s, and then of course his whole path to running, one of the most well-known charities, helping millions of people in the world get clean water. So we had an interesting week here on the show.
[00:00:48] And of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guests insights and our insights and experiences along to you. So if you missed those, go ahead and check out Scott Harrison and Jennifer Dulski. But the real purpose of the show here is to have conversations directly with you. And that's what we do today here on Feedback Friday. Every Friday you can reach us at firstname.lastname@example.org. Try to keep them concise, those questions that you send in, if you can. It really increases the chance that we'll get your question on the air because one of Jason's favorite things to do is cut away questions and make them more concise. All right, Jason.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:21] Oh, it's my favorite. It is so great to sit here for three hours and just figure out how to take seven pages and turn it into a simple question. It's great.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:31] So that was a little sarcasm from Jason. But the truth is if you do the work on your end to make it concise and give us what we need to do to get you advice instead of just stream of thought, then your chances of getting on the show go way, way, way up. So please do that simple little favor for us if you would, because it does really, really help us out as well. So before we jump in, I just want to say a big shout out, say hello to everyone I met at the third Coast Festival in Chicago. Great town. We had some decent weather, did rain a little in classic Midwest fashion, but got some really good food, got a chance to walk around the city. We got a chance to hang out a little bit. It was really, really a lot of fun. And Jason, there's something about the Midwest where people are just less pretentious, much nicer, and it seems to permeate every part of that city. Just even when you're lost on the street walking around, people are of nice, talkative and chatty. You just don't get that elsewhere.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:23] Look, man, Chicago is my favorite city in the country. I had just moved back to Los Angeles from Chicago after living there for two years and I miss it. I miss it so much because LA is certainly not Chicago because you're right, everybody is friendly. I think it stems from the fact that we have to spend six months out of the year inside of our house. So when we get to go outside and see other people, it's like, “Hey brother. What's going on? Give me a hug.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:46] Yeah, exactly, exactly. There's no ice on the ground, so everybody's in a good mood. Yeah, I found that to be the case. I found that to be the case. So big shout out to Chicago. Oh, one thing I will say though is that Chicago Midway is one terrible airport. I don't know what's going on there. I thought Detroit had a bad airport and then Chicago Midway is like hold my beer, and it's like just a catastrophe. And you know it was funny, I thought, okay, TSA agents generally not the best people, sorry if you're a TSA agent listening to this, but you know what I mean? And I'm probably not talking about you, but generally they're like kind of cranky. They don't really want to be there. That Chicago TSA was especially in a bad mood when I walked through there, really. I mean they were really, really confrontational. I actually Googled what to do if a TSA agent harasses or is rude to you, and three out of the six articles that I found were like, yeah, if they had either had it mentioned in the article or the comments like Chicago TSA is the worst though. Oh, yeah, Chicago is like known for having the worst TSA, which is funny because the city itself is so friendly, but the people who are working at the TSA or like apparently just nationally known, just not super happy to be there.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:54] Yeah. They’re just generally horrible people. I will back that up 100 percent.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:58] Sorry, TSA. We're not talking about you though. If you're listening to this,
we're not talking about you, we're talking about the people that yell at you for no reason at the airport. Anyway, that's just some housekeeping stuff. My point is Chicago is great. I love it. I would love to go back there probably from spring to fall only though because I remember me in Michigan winter and if it's windy as it is in Chicago, when it's that cold, that's a bad combination. So all right, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:22] Hi Jordan and team. Over the last 10 years, I overcame anxiety that stemmed from a messy divorce and a deployment to Iraq. I recently started working in sales, which I love and has made a major change in my family's lives. One of the requirements in this career is that I call and sit with clients. However, I noticed over the last couple of weeks I found myself becoming very anxious about making the calls like I had when I was new at this. As a result, I've fallen behind on calls allowing others to take my sales. I know the best way to overcome these issues is to work through them and just make the calls, but I noticed halfway through the calls, I feel my throat restricting and losing the confidence sound in my voice. I typically don't talk a lot, so now that I have to make longer calls, I wonder if this is a new issue or just one I haven't experienced before. I felt like this when I was doing public speaking events years ago, but I thought I'd overcome it. Any tips on settling the anxiety that seems to be affecting my voice. Signed, Speechless in Seattle.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:17] All right, Speechless. So the typical answer to this type of question is that the best way through is actually to go through it. You can't really avoid this. If you're going to be in sales and doing the calls is a problem for you. What you're going to end up doing is what you've done before, which is avoiding it. You can either avoid it or go through it. You're avoiding, it isn't working. That's resulting in loss sales. You procrastinate or you fail to follow through, which of course, then adds to the pressure for the next call and the next call, which is a vicious cycle because then you're like, “Oh, I haven't closed anything all day. I haven't closed anything all week.” That's a problem. It's going to end up with you, sabotaging yourself enough that you lose your job, not good. Try making calls that aren't important to warm up during the day, so don't get there and go, “Oh no, I have 40 calls because I've been putting everything up.” Try to make calls that are not important to warm up your chatter muscles during the day.
[00:06:09] In fact, you might even want to call people on the way to work, old friends or your parents or something like that, just so you're not opening your mouth for the first time with a cup of coffee in one hand and an important prospect on the other. Jason and I will often do a quick vocal warmup. Then we do ads or commercials. Then we do Feedback Friday or the show itself. Very rarely, unless timing has really been an issue in a problem for me or us that day, I'm never just like, yawn, all right, get some water in me. Start doing an interview. You got to warm yourself up, and warming up and having anxiety are two different things. But Jason, I know that you had a little bit of anxiety doing the show as well.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:50] Yeah. And I also used to work in sales and I'd have to get warmed up. Like you're one of the first customer walks through the door. You're definitely cold, and it was just one of those things where it's like, “I really don't want to talk to this person right now.” And for me, it was just like scary. I'm like I have to sell this person something, and I was always nervous because I knew, I'm in sales, I've got to get that energy up, go, go, go. But yeah, when we first started doing this show a couple of years ago, it was like almost six, seven years ago now that we started working together.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:18] Yeah. Something like that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:19] I was so nervous before every show because I'd never done an interview show and I'm like my hands would be shaking, I'm sweaty. I'm just like, “Oh my God, I get to talk to this person now with you.” Well you're the one that's talking to them, but I have to be the producer and talk to them and get them set up, get their mics done and all that stuff. It freaked me out, and it is one of those things where you just have to do it a million times and then it just becomes rote and you don't get nervous about it. So I think really it does come back to practice, practice, practice, but definitely warm up with somebody beforehand. Like you were saying, Jordan, because that will just like -- it'll just flip that switch in your head. It's like, “Oh my job now is to talk, so let's just talk.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:01] Yeah, that makes complete sense. I think what you're saying is a hundred percent correct. The one issue here is that it sounds like speechless was just fine before and recently in the past couple of weeks, something unknown, whatever, has cropped up or he's got something going on in the background that he didn't mention. He said over the last 10 years he overcame anxiety, but now it's coming back. It's rearing its head again. The tricky thing about anxiety is that it does, it sneaks up on you. You already know this, Speechless, because of your previous bout with it when you got back from Iraq. So yeah, you're probably not nervous about the calls. You have some, I don't know, generalized anxiety and that's affecting your calls, just like it would affect you giving a speech or doing some other random tasks. So it's not the calls themselves, it's your nervous system making you nervous.
And that's interesting because why is that happening right now? That's the question we've got to figure out, why is that happening now? And if you ask a therapist about this, I would recommend that. But don't go to one that's going to push you some pills. I think that's the issue we got to avoid. Your doctors, go to a doctor and be like, “Yeah, I'm having anxiety.” You're going to walk out with a prescription for, I don't even know what those things are called, some sort of antidepressant. I don't have a brand name handy.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:09:17] Zanax or something.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:18] And then you're going to have it. Yeah, yeah. And that's not going to help you at all, especially with your sales stuff. Go to a therapist that specializes in antianxiety. Doctors often, they're great folks. They mean well most of the time, but they often don't know much about this stuff.
A good therapist will. You do not want to get hooked on some random medication to treat the symptom. You've got to get with someone who can teach you maybe some basic CBT, reframe some of what's going on. Figure out what the cause of this is. Because who knows, maybe it's like, “Hey, I switched brands of coffee and now I'm getting twice as much caffeine.” Or “ I used to work out in the morning and now I work out in the evening because of this shift in my schedule. So I'm not burning off the steam that I was in the morning.” And maybe you know, there's some lifestyle change or some other issue that might be causing anxiety and that's what you're going to want to figure out and it might not be so obvious. So the therapist is going to help you with that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:05] He also said that he has to make longer calls now, since he's been doing it for a little bit longer. So I wonder if the length of the calls is kind of the issue that he has to like talk more instead of just doing a, “Hey, this is speechless salesman. Let me tell you a widget right now.” And now he's got to do these longer calls, so maybe the length of the call is really part of the issue because that has changed. He said that in his email to us.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:28] Yeah, very well could be. So the calls themselves are probably the canary in the coal mine. You have to treat the anxiety itself, not just focus on the skill of doing the sales calls and avoiding what might be making you nervous around there. Because you can even get really good at that and then they're going to go, “Great, why don't you speak at our Sales Conference to 20 sales people.” And then that anxiety comes right back in a different way. So you've got to handle the root cause, not just the symptom. So I hope that helps. All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:00] Jordan and Jason. I'm 31 years old, and I've recently been forced to move back with my parents after a breakup and I'm finding it hard to reconnect with my family. I act like a moody teenager around my mother and it's a pattern of behavior I can't seem to shake. Any advice here to try and break the cycle would go a long way. The main issue though is with my father, when I was growing up, my father was a very open minded liberal man, so I turned out that way too. But I've noticed since moving back home that my father seems almost the polar opposite now. The social media networks he follows and a vast majority of the people he follows on YouTube are very far right leaning and bordering on offensive. He slightly hard of hearing too, so it's no secret. He plays his videos very loud from his office and everyone on the same floor can hear and I admit that I find it extremely challenging to have to constantly listen to people on their soapbox whose views I completely disagree with. I should add, he is a white man who's been married to a black Caribbean woman for 30 plus years with me, his mixed race child.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:58] That's interesting.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:59] Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:01] That's certainly --
Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:02] Out of left field.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:03] Out of left field. Yeah, okay.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:05] Yet I hear him watching videos with anti-black lives matter content or propaganda in support of Donald Trump, for example, despite the fact that we live in the UK. In an increasing number of videos supporting far right political ideologies like the English Defence League and the UK IP here in the UK.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:21] Is it UKIP or UK? I don't know. It doesn't matter. You all know what we mean probably.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:26] Also growing up, my father never mentioned any religious or spiritual views at all. My mother is a Christian and I remember the conversations we all had together when I was a kid, but as if out of nowhere he is now a devout atheist and in my view, the worst kind. My father won't stop at simply not believing in God. He has to argue his case. He'll now purposely opened the door to Jehovah's witnesses just to have an argument with them about why God doesn't exist, and I only mention this because I know this stems from his viewing habits on the Internet. I'm agnostic, so I don't really care either way. I will hold up my hands and saying that I don't actually know if he 100 percent believes in all the stuff he watches or if he's just a sucker for punishment. I can't bring myself to have the conversation with them because if this is his new belief system, I will resent him for it. Although I think I've already started to, it sounds stupid when I say it, but I feel like he's been radicalized. He is simply not the man I knew growing up and I'm not sure I want to know the man he's become, but I'm stuck under the same roof. How do you think I should move forward with this issue? Should I confront him and risk causing massive tension? Should I be worried about his social media habits and changing behavior overall? I love the show. Tenfold, since you guys rebranded. Your input knowledge would be highly appreciated. All of the best, Perplexed About Pops. PS, try and get Russell Brand back please.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:48] Okay, well we'll see what we can do about Russell Brand. I am in touch with his assistant. We are on good terms, so we're good there. The whole moody teenager thing right in the beginning of what he was saying, that is kind of normal. It doesn't make it great or anything, it sucks to be not getting along with your mom because you're a moody teenager and you want to stop. I feel like this happens because when you move home, your mom's still sees you as a kid, but you don't see yourself as a kid. You've grown up a bunch and she kind of wasn't necessarily there for all of that. Not that she wasn't around, but that she still sees you as a kid, and that's kind of how it always goes. So you get treated in a certain way and you're a little resentful of it. I would just try to be a little bit more mindful of that. And so when she says something like, when you get triggered because that's really what it is. When you get triggered, take a deep breath instead of going, “Oh, whatever. This is a stupid!” And humor your mom, realized she's just trying to take care of you. It's a little bit like almost like a mindfulness exercise, but onto the actual problem here.
[00:14:50] This sounds a little bit awful. Your dad is like old and hard of hearing and he's watching all this crazy Alex Jones stuff or whatever online, at the top volume and he sounds bored. Honestly, I had to giggle, I had to giggle here, and I hate that I did that because it is a serious issue, but I'm just imagining this cantankerous, older man just blasting videos and full volume about how there's chemicals in the water that are turning the freaking frogs gay or whatever Alex Jones said in that famous clip, and it's just so strange. Yeah, I know people change with age and over time, perhaps there's something to be said for that. It is definitely strange and honestly it sounds like maybe he's bored and he's looking for a cause. I'm wondering if he's retired. Right Jason? You know when people stop working, they sometimes they lose their sense of purpose and they replace it with this kind of garbage because it evokes a strong sense of passion and an emotional response, which is something that we as humans, we often crave this. We want this in our lives and then if we're not getting it at work and profession, we can try to find it somewhere else.
[00:15:57] I would not recommend confronting him about this. If he craves confrontation with random Jehovah's witnesses at the door, he will love conflict with you inside the house and this will be a problem as you'll become the go-to boogeyman or at least the go-to pin cushion, or let's pick a fight with this guy kind of target. Whenever your dad gets bored, whenever he gets lonely, you're going to be relaxing on a Saturday afternoon, three months after you do this the first time, only to hear the latest about for you or your friends or some guy you're watching on TV as a part of this socialist Zionist plot to overthrow Western civilization, okay? I would take a hard pass on volunteering for that position if you live with them. Now, there might be some worry since your dad seems more and more to the right. He's married to an Afro Caribbean woman with a mixed race child, so I really think that we're not quite to the point of worry, but then again, you're the one in the house, so you have to make the final decision here.
[00:16:55] I'm wondering, have you spoken to your mother about this and what does she think you know, is she worried? How close are you with your dad? I would want to know that too because perhaps you too can find a hobby or activity to do together. Perhaps you too can find a hobby or activity to do together that is completely a political in nature and at that point you're both strengthening your relationship with him and you're getting him out of the house and off YouTube and other toxic pits of fake news and pseudo intellectual BS. And of course, look, if he tries to bring up any of the crazy that he's been digesting from the Internet, you can just have a frank conversation with him about how it makes you feel. Don't try to argue the merits of what all these knuckleheads are saying and these dumb videos. How it makes you worry about him, your relationship with him is at stake because he's bringing this up all the time and you're worried about him. The things that you feel are what's going to be important.
[00:17:48] Don't argue the merits of Black Lives Matter or the Trump administration. You might consider if and when he shoves this stuff in your face, letting him know that you worry that he sees you, his own son differently because of the things that he's watching, and it's breaking your heart. So the differences between you going, “Those anti-black lives matter, people that are all crazy and dah, dah, dah.” That's different than “Hey, so if you're anti them, you know what about me and mom?” I'm worried about that. I think that's the kind of conversation that you have if you're on some fishing excursion, that would be a strong wake up call to any dad.
[00:18:25] So I don't think, again, there's no need for some sort of dramatic intervention here. Don't gang up on him with your mom either. That's a terrible idea. I know that's floating around in your head. Just forget that right now. This is something that requires you to first strengthen your connection with your dad and establish a good baseline of rapport and trust again before you open this can of worms. And if he resists you on this, then don't force it. You'll just get him to dig in his heels. It's going to make everything worse, and keep us posted. I hope this goes well for you because I can imagine how annoying this probably is for everyone in the house, and thanks for trusting me slash us with this. This was an interesting question.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:04] This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:07] This episode is sponsored in part by HostGator. Listen, we talk a lot about effective networking and relationship building on the show. Anyone who's been listening for a while understands the basics of connecting with and being a value to people who help us become better at who we are and what we do. But it's hard to get traction when your new connections look for you online and they see you don't even have a website. I'll admit I'm a little judgy with that myself and worse, maybe the only mention of you online is from some troll who's got a bone to pick with you or with your business. Why should that troll have control over your reputation when HostGator can have your website up and running today with you in the driver's seats? No experience with code necessary. If you can use a web browser, you can build your own website, no fuss, no muss. That's why we recommend HostGator's Website Builder. HostGator has a hundred plus mobile friendly templates, so it's going to look good on a tablet, phone, computer. You want WordPress one click, add-ons couple clicks like PayPal so people can buy directly from your website. SEO plugins to help you show up higher in search and 99.9 percent uptime. Great tech support, 24/7, 365, and it's not going to break the bank. HostGator's given our wonderful listeners up to 62 percent off all packages for new users with a 45 day complete money back guarantee and you get unlimited email addresses based from your website. Most places don't offer that, so you end up getting up-sold because you want to have one for yourself and one for your assistant, et cetera. Go to hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. That's hostgator.com/jordan, and thanks for supporting our sponsors that support the show.
[00:20:42] This episode is sponsored in part by Stitch Fix. Now, I'm looking forward to my Stitch Fix box Oh, close. They're an online personal styling service, and what I like is they deliver clothes, shoes and accessories that fit your body, your budget and your lifestyle. You know a lot of guys were looking for stuff or too tall or too wide, you know the drill, and or it's like one of those services where everything is super freaking expensive and you're like, “What? How is this possible?” And Stitch Fix has men, women and kids, so it's not just bros are us over there. You go to stitchfix.com/jordan, you tell them your sizes, what styles you like, how much you want to spend on each item, not just total, where you end up with a box that has like a 400 dollars sweater in it. You're not going to have that with Stitch Fix. You get paired with your very own personal stylist who will hand pick items to send right to your door.
[00:21:30] I actually visited their office and what I like about Stitch Fix is people were cool. They were happy working there and they look good. It wasn't like you walk into some weird startup and they've got some robot that picks random clothes that they think are cool according to their algorithm. They actually have people in there going, yeah, this will work with this guy, this, this is good for this group of people. There were tons of people that were better dressed than me working in there. Let me put it that way, and people were happy working there. That's a good sign, right?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:21:56] That's really what you want to see. You don't want like to roll in there and people are in like TJ Maxx outlet store clothes, picking your clothes for you.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:03] Right. Like yeah, pretending to be a stylist because they went through a YouTube training. No, they had stylish looking people in there. I'll throw that. And shipping, exchanges, returns, they're always free. You only pay for what you love. You return the rest, so you're not just stuck with what they send you and there's no subscription required. You're not going to have to try to cancel some box, come into your freaking door each month. You can receive scheduled shipments, you can get your fix whenever you want, and their styling fee is only 20 bucks which is applied towards anything you keep from your shipment. So it essentially makes it kind of free. Jason, where can they find the fix?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:36] Get started now at stitchfix.com/jordan, and you'll get an extra 25 percent off when you keep all items in your box. That’s stitchfix.com/jordan to get started today. Stitchfix.com/jordan.
[00:22:49] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors, to get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers, and if you'd be so kind to please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice, it really helps us out. And if you want some tips on how to do that, just head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now, let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:13] So a lot of people have actually been asking me about how to get the best results or the most out of living abroad. And there's been a lot of questions that I sort of blended into one idea or one set of ideas here. So if you have specific questions about this, I'm happy to talk about it if it's something novel and unique, but a lot of people are just kind of like, “What are some tactics for getting the most out of my time overseas? What are the tactics for learning languages and things like that.” I don't want to go into language learning stuff. I think that that's something we can talk about another time or even do an episode about. But I've lived abroad a lot. I've lived in, I don’t know, nine or 10 different countries at this point. I've spent multiple years abroad, sometimes a year or more at a time, and so I've got kind of a good feeling for how this works.
[00:24:00] So I want to talk about first, when you go abroad for one to three weeks, you feel excitement. So if you're only going abroad for one to three weeks, don't worry. The thing's going to be exciting. You're going to enjoy it. You can go out a bunch, you can make some friends, you can take some language classes. You can really do some serious improvement. That's kind of your typical short-term study abroad program or vacation. But if you live abroad or you start going abroad on a longer program and you're not just hanging out with other Americans at some pub every night. Weeks three to six, it's a little tricky. After week one through three, you've done the shopping, you've gone to the museums, you've gone to the beach, you've gone and done some really touristy stuff.
[00:24:42] Three to six. It's a little bit of a harder adjustment is reality sets in. You might be hanging out with your ex pet friends, but if you're not doing that, let's say you're abroad alone, people aren't calling you on Sunday. You have the whole day to think about stuff. You're watching TV, you're a little bit bored. Businesses are closed. You've got nothing to do. Maybe that's changed a little with Internet and maybe you can go to a cafe and maybe things are different in Europe, but for example, or abroad, but when I lived in Europe, man, everything on Sunday was closed, and if you didn't have plans with your friends and maybe your family was out of the house or something like that, if you're living with a host family or you live alone, it was just one of those days where you were like, I’m not sure I like this. You have a lot of time to watch crappy reruns in another language and read a book that you've already read and it can be a little bit depressing, and that's weeks three to six. It depends where that sets in for most people and if you're hanging out with ex-pats or not, and then week six plus, weeks six through whatever 55, boredom and isolation really start to set in, the novelty wears off. You start to realize you have no real social circle or real roots there unless you've actually done the work, most people haven't. And often this is when people get homesick and they really, really strongly think about going home. That's six to, I'd say six to 12 somewhere in there.
[00:26:01] And then week 12 plus, if you play it right and you take the wakeup call or you've been doing the work and you're doing, let's say some of the stuff in LevelOne, going out, meeting people, getting phone numbers, meeting up with people, joining some hobby classes, and I'll talk more about this in a little bit. Then weeks 12 plus, you get a routine going. You pick up those hobbies, you pick up that social circle, it starts to develop a little bit. You realize it's a real life there not a vacation. And once you accept this and you play full-on, you go to that part of it, you got invited so you don't get lazy. You go to the meetup, you go try to make friends with people, approach random people at a table and see what they're, then things get a lot better. You stop trying to make everyone do what you want like you have at home. And you start to assimilate by putting your energy back into the system.
[00:26:53] And I did this when I lived abroad, that when I started to get homesick, I realized one of the reasons was because I kind of went through this thing where this phase where I was expecting other people to come to me. That was what happened the first three weeks. I was interesting. I was foreign. Everybody wanted me to hang out. Everybody was calling me, and when that sort of died down, I was like, “Well, everyone else is being mean to me now. Why am I being isolated?” And I realize, “Oh, I'm doing it to myself.” So I did all sorts of random stuff. I started taking karate classes, I started taking boxing and judo, and stuff like that. And there was a couple guys there that were like, yeah, after this, I would say, “Hey, do you guys want to go for a beer?” And they'd go, “Well, no, I've got to go play this.” In German, it was called like zits a ball and it was like sit ball. And they're like, “Yeah, it's a group of people. Jason, this kind of crazy, it's a group of people. They were all disabled in some way, or they had no legs or they were somehow wheelchair bound and we would play volleyball but you couldn't stand.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:51] Oh, that's crazy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:52] So because they hadn't, I mean a lot of people just flat out had no legs. So we would play volleyball and it was awesome because the thing I found the hardest about volleyball was diving and like running and all this court strategy and you don't have that with since of all you're using your arms. So like you got to do all this totally different stuff. You can't use your feet to run or move at all. It was pretty neat.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:28:16] That does sound very interesting.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:17] It was. I started playing bat and so I started making friends there because I wasn't the only person who could run around there. There were plenty of people that played it. I can't remember why now that I think about it. But we were there, it was like 50-50 like just maybe bad athletes like me and then other people who are disabled that would crush us depending on the rotation of the teams. Anyway, I started doing stuff like that where I would never have gone and done that in America. I had been like, that sounds weird. No thanks. I'll just do whatever. But since I wouldn't say desperate, but I was more open minded. I was like, if I'm going to make friends, I got to be open to doing stuff like this. I got to go to the heavy metal club even though I am not a fan of that. Or I've got to this weird outdoor rave that somebody is throwing in a park, even though normally I'd be like, “Eh, no thanks.” I have to do all that stuff.
[00:29:04] So I started going everywhere and doing everything, and that's when I started to be more social and make friends. So that's what I mean by putting energy back into the system. And it is 100 percent on you, took me months to learn this. It is 100 percent on you whenever you move to a new place, new country, or just a new town to make sure that you have friends, find things to do, make sure that you can get around. The more you wait on others, the more you resent those others for not living up to essentially what's a covert contract, unmet expectations. Then you start to blame the culture. The city's unfriendly, this country is unfriendly, culturally not that good. This is the same for moving to a new town. It just happens to be kind of 10X when you move to a new country because maybe you don't speak the language, so it's easy to be like, “Oh, everyone's really standoffish.” Versus if you moved from Chicago to LA, you just go, “People are a little different here,” but you're not like, “It's impossible to speak to people.” They're still Americans.
[00:30:01] So if you start to resent the culture, this puts off an entitled and negative vibe that people pick up on and they don't want to be around you. And I know that might seem obvious, but again, this took me like six months to learn, especially when I moved to Germany. I remember finally asking friends of mine like eight to 10 months in, they're like, “Yeah, it's so random that we became friends because frankly, in the beginning you were kind of interesting and new, and then you were kind of aloof and then you were kind of like a jerk and then none of us, we all of stopped calling you because you didn't seem interested in us.” And I remember being like, “I was interested in everybody. I just expected them to do all the work,” which is ridiculous. But saying that now as an adult it seems ridiculous, but I know plenty of people that moved to new cities and just refuse to go the extra mile and try to make friends. And I'm thinking, how's that working out for you?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:30:50] Yeah, really.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:50] And they always say, they always say the same thing. They're like, “I don't like it here. I want to move home.” And I'm like, “Well yeah, because you don't do anything.” You want your social circle from Chicago to live with you in Hollywood. That's not realistic. And it's just a human thing ,because nobody likes to have to make all new friends from scratch. It's not fun. It's tough.
[00:31:10] The other tip I would say, and this goes for living abroad or living in a different town, especially abroad though, don't try to live two lives. This was much easier before Internet. When I lived in Germany for example, or Serbia, or all these other places before the Internet was so pervasive, especially around the world. I had to make the very occasional, very expensive call to stay in touch with people. Now, you can move to freaking Japan or Australia or Germany, and you can talk to your friends every hour or two on Instagram, text, Facebook, freaking Snapchat. You can FaceTime each other whenever you feel bored, whenever you're lonely or frustrated, you can be on the bus and instead of thinking about how you're going to make friends with the people in your town or whatever, you can just be like, “Screw it. I'm going to FaceTime my old friends.”
[00:31:55] This might seem convenient, but it actually increases homesickness. It increases FOMO and the idea that, “Well, yeah, I don't need to assimilate or make new friends. I'm just here temporarily. Let me do a live FaceTime stream from my friend's birthday party back in Albuquerque.” Bad idea. I'm not saying cut off your friends, but you need to realize you've left home. You shouldn't spend hours commenting and liking on every picture from your friends birthday party that you couldn't go to because you're overseas. It will drain you. So try to do a little bit of social media only on your computer, maybe an hour each week. Treat it almost like letter writing. It's convenient. You can see the photos. It's really nice to have that. But don't be on your smart phone with your American number, texting your friends and being like, “I'm out. What's going on girl?” Like that kind of thing is not going to help be healthy. You have to break those habits. It's a healthy habit to break anyway, all that social media addiction, and we might even do a show on that in the future, just saying.
[00:32:50] Remember you're foreign and once your novelty wears off, you might be towards the bottom of the social totem pole. You're not going to be the cool guy or gal or that interesting anymore at a certain point. Accept this, accept this, and put that much more energy into networking, making friends, making connections, making the first move socially, et cetera. In the end, moving somewhere new, moving to a new town, living abroad, it is massively, massively rewarding but not usually for the reasons people think. Yes, of course you can learn another language. Yes, you can learn other culture. You can capitalize on opportunity, but mostly you get to learn about yourself. You get to see how you do in a new situation while you're under pressure from yourself and without any connections, without clout, without your social circle. You grow so much because you have to start everything over from scratch and you can't lean on your comfort zone because everything you ever knew is in another freaking time zone and maybe even in another language. And that honestly is kind of one of the reasons I think that the Jordan Harbinger Show, the relaunch is doing as well as it has because we couldn't just say, “Well, we're doing good enough.” It was start from zero, do everything the right way and put that much more energy into this rebrand and this rebuilding because we don't have a choice. That's the same situation you're putting yourself in. I'll be it by choice if you move abroad or move to another city. So anybody who is doing that, share this with them, that will be very helpful. They won't need it the first week though. They won't need it the second week or the first month, they'll think that Jordan guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Send it to them when they get a little bit homesick or they start complaining, then they could take a good look in the mirror. That's what happened to me. All right. Jason, what's next out of the mailbag?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:35] Hello. I'm a 23 year old woman, and I've been seeing a 26 year old guy for about six months now and we've been a couple for about four months. In the beginning I wasn't really interested in him. I was a bit skeptical and as shallow as I can be. I didn't find him very handsome at first. It automatically put me in a more dominant position. I warned him I don't feel the same as he feels for me, but that we have fun together. We click and I enjoy spending time with him. He did most of the effort to be with me and I kept my mind open about him and our relationship developed to something deeper, and now I love them and we make a great team. Aw.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:08] Aw.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:09] There's only one problem.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:11] But!
Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:11] My self-esteem has really gone down since we got together. When we've been vulnerable with each other and talked about our problems in the mind, et cetera, he would be telling me things like, I don't really know who I am. I don't really want to do what I'm doing in life, that I'm lost in that I have a split personality, and this is him telling her what he thinks about her, not him talking about himself. Just to be clear on that.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:32] Right.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:32] Before I met him, I never felt any of those things and now I kind of do. I do deep down that the things he's saying are not really true. I'm incredibly happy running a growing business with my mom. The business is one of the things I'm most proud of, having the opportunity to work with home decoration, fashion, modeling, and all the other aspects of running a business is a true blessing. I know I'm very strong and I usually have a deep sense of self and direction. Lately though, I feel more submissive with him, like I've lost all my power. My reaction to his comments, is anger. I'm angry because he's partly right about what he's saying and I'm angry with him because I believe he's trying to break me down. He's telling me that he's trying to make me stronger when all I have gotten is weaker. My boyfriend has a very strong personality. He can talk his way into anything and has great self-esteem. If we can find a way, it would be great. I don't know what to do. I love challenges. So maybe I could learn how to deal with him in a way that puts us in a more equal position where we can look up to each other and make each other stronger in the right way. He can help me with my business and I can help him start his dance career. Or should I just leave him? Thanks, I Want My Power Back.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:40] So this is so interesting. First of all, he knows that there's a social value difference in your mate value. So let me explain this real briefly. He knew in the beginning that you weren't that attracted to him and he sort of pushed through it, which is great. Good for him. But there's a hierarchy in social value and this happens when people who are of disparate values. So maybe like a really attractive woman with a certain type of guy or a really charismatic guy with a certain type of woman. It sort of depends. Or women, women, men, men. It doesn't really matter. There's always a value differential between people or unless they're of course on the same rung, which is the usual scenario in one way or another. Now you weren't into him for certain reasons. It doesn't really matter why. What he's doing is a reaction to that, this is a mate retention strategy, so if our mate's value is higher than ours, we can do one of two things. We can either work on ourselves to get better and better so that we bring ourselves up to that level which takes a long time and is very difficult, and this usually results in the other person doing the same. This is healthy. You see this in healthy marriages where it's like she makes me want to be a better person and you're working on yourself because they're working on their self and one person wants to get fits or the other person wants to get thin and they're doing it together. That's healthy. That's bringing up.
[00:37:59] But option two is one mate seeks to bring the other one down a peg or two. And the reason is that if the mate value is equal or lower, it's less likely that one will leave the other, okay? So that's why you see an unhealthy couples. You'll often hear that the guy is controlling or he insults her if he belittles her or things like that. And you're like, what? I can't believe it. She's so pretty. She's so nice. That's why he's doing it. It's not that he just doesn't appreciate it. That's what the common wisdom when he doesn't appreciate you. No. On the contrary, he appreciates it so much that he's threatened by it. It's completely different. It's not that he doesn't notice. That's why when you see controlling couples here, you see these abusive couples go through this and she's like, “Oh, he keeps saying nobody would want to be with me. I'm fat, I'm ugly, all this stuff.” So they go to the gym and they work out and they're extra nice and they're extra outgoing and they're actually, It actually makes it worse because it's not about her. It's about him. Does Jason, am I making sense so far?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:39:00] Absolutely. Crystal clear.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:02] Yeah. Okay, so when you're in a situation like option two where one mate seeks to bring the other down a peg, that is a problem because it makes it less likely one will leave the other of course, but this is quite unhealthy because it results in what we see here, which is one party feeling attacked, powerless, submissive, and the other party going on the offensive to, again, it was a mate retention strategy. So we also can't really force someone to change mate retention strategies. So we can't say, “Hey man, this will option two thing you're doing where you're trying to keep me down and it's all subconscious.” First of all, the reason they chose this strategy over the other one of getting better and improving yourself. One is easier than the other. It's much quicker as well. It's a lot easier and faster to bring someone down than it is to say, “I need to take a cold hard look in the mirror and find out where I can improve so that I deserve what I want.” That's very difficult. And it could take years, it might never happen.
[00:39:56] So there's a good chance that he doesn't even see this other strategy as an option. And what I mean in a nutshell is this, if he's trying to bring you down instead of building himself up, it's either because he sees building himself up as impossible, too difficult, et cetera, or it's probably never even occurred to him to do so at all. Or he thought about it and went, “Yep, no thanks.” And that happened, you know, at age 14 when he got rejected by some girl who gave them a self-esteem issue. It's also possible that this strategy worked for him temporarily and other relationships that he's had in his past. All he's got to do is sort of, you said he is great at talking his way into things. He's charismatic, whatever.
He talks his way into a relationship with somebody that he secretly believes he does not deserve. And then he spends the rest of the time trying to figure out how to shoe horn his girlfriend, his new girlfriend, into a social value role where she won't leave him. So that's dangerous. That really sucks for the people he's dating.
[00:40:58] So this is about him and his mindsets. It's about his level of confidence. It's not something you can really change without his active participation. So the question you need to ask yourself is, does this person, does this guy make you better or worse? It's not just about how you feel when you're with them. I know a lot of people go, “Well, I feel great where to get” “No, forget that.” Okay, don't worry about that for now. This is about your quality of life and your emotional state. I'm not saying your boyfriend is some sort of manipulative psychopath or anything like that. In fact, I think this type of thing is likely hardwired into a lot of us for mate retention purposes.
[00:41:35] The problem is that it makes a victim out of one of the parties. And it is a recipe for disaster because as one party wins, and I put that in air quotes here, and gains control of the other and one party loses and either loses their mate or finds themselves feeling depressed and with a lower sense of self-worth as a result of this action, this campaign, that's problematic. And this might sound dramatic, but just imagine the current state of affairs. Imagine your relationship right now only and the feelings you're having right now and project them out a few years into the future because it's only going to kind of get worse and worse as it goes on, because his sense of self-worth is low. So you're a bottomless pit. He can keep throwing that in there. It's never going to make himself feel better. So he's never fixing the problem. So he's going to keep doing this to you. Is that who you want to be? If he gets his way and his opinions become right about you. Again, in quotes here, if he becomes right about you that “Yeah, you're feeling this way because he looks and talks down on you.
[00:42:39] In other words, you stop doing this business that you're like with your mom, you stop being as outgoing, you're hanging out with your friends. Would you be happy with that scenario? Those are the questions that you need to ask yourself, and you need to be very honest in how you answer. I suggest writing this all down in a journal or on your computer and then talking about it with a close friend you trust who knows you well. And I think once you do this, the solution of what you need to do here will be readily apparent. It's an unfortunate situation because I see exactly what's going on here, and I look, I won't front. In college, I dated a lot of great girls and then as soon as I felt a little bit threatened, I'd be like, “Oh well, I can't really get better. I don't know how that works.” So what I have to do is be like, “Oh, that guy is not interested in you.” Or like “That guy's a dork,” you tried to bring the other guy down and if that doesn't work because you look hella insecure doing that, then you're like, “Oh well, I can't just bring everyone else down. I have to make sure that she feels like it's not an option.” And then you know where that leads. You get your ass dumped by women who have a high sense of confidence because they're like, “Hey, you're kind of a dick.” And you go, “Oh shoot! Me being a dick isn't working.” And the problem is it'll eventually work on somebody. But the question is, do you want that to be you? And probably not I would imagine.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:43:57] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after these messages.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:00] This episode is sponsored in part by a SimpliSafe. I am a fan of SimpliSafe. I'm actually a big fan of SimpliSafe Home Security. They're essentially ready for anything that gets thrown at it. And what I love about this unit is it's self-contained. So if a storm takes out your power, SimpliSafe is ready, it's got a backup battery. If an intruder cuts your phone line, which by the way probably never happens and is straight out of the movies, but whatever, it's cellular, SimpliSafe is ready.
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Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:10] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air and to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/advertisers. Now, back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:25] All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:28] Hi, Jordan and all. Congratulations on the 100 plus episodes. I had a podcast called The Curious Artist, and I allowed it to pot to fade. Oh, I hate that term so much. After about six or seven episodes. I'm thinking of bringing it back, but I'm worried about staying consistent with it. Do you have any advice for me? It's so impressive to me that you've reached 100 episodes in under a year. I understand that you've been doing this for years, but I'd love your advice for continuing. Signed, Consistently Inconsistent.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:55] Hey, Consistently Inconsistent, so whenever we lack consistency, it's usually because of a combination of factors. One, either our motivation just isn't there. Perhaps we're not seeing expected results. We lose interest. Or two, we lack systems, so the work itself is difficult and not enjoyable. There's too much friction. I'll explain what that is in a second, and that might cause us to quit. And I've worked with these two problems a lot in my life and my business with a show here, and I worked around these two issues in the following way. One, I've got a great team around me, so now I don't have to worry about editing, inserting ads, writing an episode, description, uploading the files. All of the friction is gone, so not all of it. A lot of the friction is gone. So I focus on--
Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:42] Yeah, there's still friction, buddy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:44] Yeah, there's still friction in my life here, and the rest of it is on Jason and Bob and other folks. So I focus on what I enjoy doing, which is show prep, interviewing. Two, I know that I would do this show even if nobody was listening. I've been like this for a while. This is a question that most of us have trouble answering honestly. I think a lot of people don't know if they would do what they do, even if nobody else cared. We think we might do whatever art or creative outlet we are doing now, even if nobody else cares. But the nature of a podcast especially is that other people listen, think about cooking food and imagine nobody ate it. Well yeah, you can still eat it, but with a podcast it's kind of different. It's kind of like cooking a meal for a thousand people and then you're the only one that shows up. It would be disappointing after a really, really short period of time.
[00:47:38] So if you paint and nobody sees it but you, that's fine. But if you do a show and nobody validates you with their attention, it really does feel like something is missing, and it took me a long, long time to get over this. Part of that was ignoring my numbers in the beginning, not talking about that, not worrying about that, which is good because it was the beginning of podcasting. We had crap stats, nobody cared anyway, nobody even knew what a podcast was.
[00:48:02] Ironically, once I did get over it, the show actually got a million times better. It's still an ongoing process as well. And with the reboot of the Jordan Harbinger Show, I no longer have to work in a toxic environment or sell things that detract from the core mission of the show. So it's actually become a lot nicer and more pleasurable for me to do the show and for the team to do this show. I know the team agrees, so we don't really need motivation per se to keep going. We've got so much momentum and such a love for the game that if we all won the lottery, you'd still find us, at least Jason and I, can't speak for everybody, but you'd still find us doing the show. I just be doing it with a perfectly coiffed hair from my mountain top layer and Switzerland, and Jason would be in a much nicer garage.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:46] Oh, give me a break. I have my volcano, like my volcano layer. That's where I would be.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:52] Good. Okay, good. As long as you can get fiber in there, fast Internet.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:56] Yeah. I'll just happen to one of those Google undersea cable. It's has that works.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:00] There you go. So in the end you should examine and I mean really examine your motivations for doing what you're doing, namely the podcast. What is it that you want to get from it? If you can get that without an audience, go for it. If you secretly desire that validation and you need it to continue, you're likely to just give up later once again. Of course, once you figure out if this is right for you in the first place, you can then seek to put systems in place to reduce friction, which makes the process much smoother and it really does maximize the pleasure you get out of doing it and this will keep you motivated for years to come. So best of luck either way. It really is going to be you sitting down and having an honest conversation with yourself and possibly writing down some of the things that you think and coming back to it later because you have to answer these questions honestly. Lying to yourself is actually just going to make it worse. You're going to end up wasting more time doing it again and continually quitting. So that motivation has to be intrinsic, internal, not external validation because that'll never keep you going. Just ask any celebrity. All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:50:07] Hi, triple J. Do you ever feel a sense of, I told you so towards the old show. I imagine it's easy to feel that way. Why or why not? What are the positives, if any, and drawbacks of that mindset? And out of all the mediums available, why podcasting? You could do written copy, video, I'm sure there's more I've not thought of. Why this? What would you recommend to podcast hopefuls in starting and growing a podcast? Thanks, Pod Curious.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:33] Okay. Yes, I definitely feel that sense of, I told you so, towards the old show, but I don't live in it. I don't live in it. And I think it's okay to feel validated, especially if you've hit a really tough challenge in your life, but it cannot become your primary source of motivation. If you're, let's say you get out of a bad relationship, you divorce somebody. You can't then go and make your entire life about making that other person, sorry that you're gone. It'll work in the beginning, you're in shape, you look good, you're out there dating, you seem happier, but you can't worry about that opinion because then you start living your life. Looking at it any way you want, you're still living your life for that person, which is pretty pathetic in a lot of ways and it's going to suck you in big time.
[00:51:19] So it can't become your primary source of motivation. It can be the initial fire under your butt, but it won't last. It will otherwise be super unhealthy. It'll be very temporary instead of growth oriented and long term. It's like those people who want to learn karate because they want to beat up the one guy that made them feel small. It takes a long time to learn and by the time you're to blue belt or whatever green belt, you just don't even care anymore. So is that going to continue to motivate? No, you have to have switched motivation from all show those jerks too, “All right, I like what I'm doing now. I'm running a business that I like.” You can't just start a business because you got fired from something else and expect to stick with it for years.
[00:52:01] You can start because you want to show the bastards, but you're not going to continue and when, because you want to show the bastards. So yes, I do feel that way. Do I lean into it? No, it's almost like a vice. It's almost like an out for drinks with Jason. Oh by the way, have you seen this? Ha-ha. Should've known. I told you so. And then back to business, that kind of thing. So yes, and thanks for noticing that we aren't living that. I really appreciate that. It is easy to feel that way, but it is a vice. It can suck you in.
[00:52:30] And here's why Jason and I love podcasting and I won't speak for you Jason. I'll just say this is why I love podcasting.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:52:35] It's easy to create as opposed to video because video, you've got to have lighting, you've got to have cameras. I'm going to be doing more video, but I didn't start with it. I didn't do it for 10 years. I basically just threw some GoPros together even recently and we're going to be upgrading that. It's also intimate and personal. There's something that is great about having an hour long, long format conversation with someone. Most videos are not going to be that long. Certainly a blog interview where you're interviewing somebody and then writing about it, those are like 15 minutes. A journalist interviewing somebody for a blog. They're never that long. And frankly, I've gotten a good talking and interviewing skillset, and being on video and doing that is an entirely different skillset and it tends to be much shorter format because of the attention span required. And when you have to promote video, you have to do all kinds of stuff. Like, here's a clip of me with the guest and I'm waving an emoji sign around and I'm all zany because you got like a minute or 30 seconds to get the audience's attention.
[00:53:38] I made a choice a long time ago to do the PBS kind of Charlie Rose interview thing without hopefully the harassment allegations. But I made a choice a long time ago to be Charlie Rose instead of Jerry Springer. Jerry Springer grew really fast. He probably made a lot more dough or has been or is still, I don't know. I don't care. I don't want to have that kind of circus as my focus. I really want to create good content that people love and that intelligent people love, that aren't just seeing it as junk food for their brain. I want it to be wholesome, nutritious, and that frankly, it's just harder to create that. Podcasting is the ideal way to do that. Podcasting and books, and of course, books you can put out one every couple of years if your ambitious. Podcasts, I get to do three a week. So the workload and the impact are really, really high with podcasting. And as for yourself, I recommend trying a bunch of things to see what you enjoy most. Jason, do you have different reasons that you would enjoy podcasting? Maybe there's another perspective here.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:54:41] I like it because it's so personal. That's what I really like about it because I've loved listening to podcasts and just being able to talk to people and it does take years to build the audience. Grumpy Old Geeks, the funny joke about that was we're like, “Hey, if we don't make money by episode 10, we're going to quit.” And we're all like on episode 287 now, and it took us to episode 150 before we made a dime. But we just loved doing it, it was the love of doing it. And that's what really gets me. It's like I love sitting with my friends and talking, and getting this stuff out there for people so they can learn and listen. And I don't know, it really enriches my life to be able to have a community of people out there who are listening and talking back and I don't know what it is about it that is just, it's kind of magical to me. I don't know why, but that's why I really like it. It's so personal and you get to just talk to people and you get to make friends. That's really what draws me to the medium.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:39] Yeah, I agree. Relationships as well. You just don't get that with a video crew around trying to knock out little clips that have sound bites. We with the whole point of a podcast is to go beyond the sound bite, to get the stuff that they don't talk about anywhere else. You don't get that when it's like, “All right, cut. Lights, makeup, we have 30 seconds.” Like yeah, you can do lower end video, but with lower end video you just end up with a lot of the sound bites without having it be as good or as well produced as something higher end. So we'll see where it goes. But you need a whole team to do that. It's so much more expensive. There's a million other reasons.
[00:56:14] I recommend trying a bunch of things to see which you like. If you enjoy one to two minute bursts of video, go for it. If you enjoy thoughtful writing, go do that. If you enjoy deep long form conversation, go do that. The only way is to test. Remember, writing, you can scale also by hiring other writers, outsourcing it. Video and podcasting, you're on the hook, man. You can never replace yourself. If you try to get another host, “Well, I told you so.” Video is easier to get a huge audience.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:56:45] Zing, zing.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:46] Video is easier to get a huge audience. You're going to throw that on YouTube. You can pay to, you throw ads to it, et cetera. It's going to be a much less engaged audience. It's also going to skew very young. It's going to skew for people that aren't necessarily fans of what you're doing. They're just kind of like watching videos on YouTube almost passively. Writing and video is something anyone can access versus podcasts, which are actually still complex for non-tech folks.
So there's a lot of plus and minus. Everybody knows how to read a blog. Your grandma can find your video on YouTube. Podcasts are a different animal, but you know you're going to get found by a ton of people. Are they going to be your fans? Not necessarily. Is there going to be a lot more noise? Yes. If you don't believe me, look at YouTube channels that have 2 million subscribers and tell me how many views their last video got? 60,000, if I got 60,000 downloads of a podcast, I'd be upset. Something's broken, because podcast fans are much more engaged. They download and listen to a lot more of what you get.
[00:57:42] If I had 1.7 million subscribers, I'm one of five shows that maybe gets that anywhere in the world. There's a lot of YouTube channels with seven figure subscriber bases that get five figure video downloads or views. That's not good. It's not good if you're doing what we're doing and putting that kind of energy into things. If you're looking to scale and generate a big audience, podcasting is by far the worst option. I will tell you that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:58:05] Ain't that the truth. That that's why you got to love it to make it work. And that said, podcasts that are popular make tons of ad revenue. It much more than bloggers, much more than YouTubers, because of the level of trust and engagement that you have with that audience, which you have to treat like gold. I'm very protective of you guys. That's why I don't do crappy sponsors. We try to make the ads funny and engaging. I respect every single minute of your time when you listened to this show which is, we're going a little long today. Speaking of respecting your time. So I'm going to throw the next couple of questions for next week. Jason, what do you think?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:58:40] Let's do it.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:41] All right. But I'd be remiss. Tank's good news. There's a German teenager, he's on track to plant 1 trillion new trees. He started --
Jason DeFillippo: [00:58:50] That’s a lot of trees.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:51] He started when he was age nine.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:58:53] Wow!
Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:54] And he loves trees probably because his name is Felix Finkbeiner. So he's spent a lot of time alone in the forest maybe, I'm not sure, because I don't know, maybe Finkbeiner sounds normal in German, but maybe not. I don’t know. But either way, this kid, he's visionary. He's like, “Look, I'm going to be older. I'm going to need these trees.” And he just went to town and he gave a speech at the UN. It's really incredible looking at this kid. He's 19 now, so he's been doing it for 10 years.
Plant for the Planets, and we'll link to that in the show notes. I am very impressed with this kid. Yes, I'm being a little tacky, sort of poking fun of his name, but this is a kid who's got big things ahead of him and he is passionate. I will give him that. When I was 19, I wasn't doing anything I was doing.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:59:40] No doubt.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:59:41] I was whining about being homesick in Germany, that's what I was doing at age 19. So thank you Felix Finkbeiner, and we will link to his charity or his organization in the show notes. And recommendation, we had people, we had the Natasha Holmes right in and say, “Wait, you're getting rid of the recommendations?” “No way. Don't do that. I can't accept that.” So we're bringing it back. We saw RBG on, I think it was Netflix, I could be wrong.
Jason DeFillippo: [01:00:05] I rented it on Amazon Prime, so I just got the rental for a, you can watch it if you have I think ComCast Internet in your house or ComCast cable, you can still watch it there for free if you have that. But I just paid for it and watched it on Amazon. So it was like five bucks for the rental for an HD rental.
Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:25] It's about Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Supreme Court Justice, kind of funny.
Jason DeFillippo: [01:00:29] Notorious RBG!
Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:30] Notorious RBG, is kind of funny, really well-produced. She seems kind of funny and quirky. It gives you an inside look at the court and some of the issues facing it. It's not very academic though. It's very accessible, so I highly recommend that. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. It's called RBG, and I hope you enjoy the show today.
[01:00:48] I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget, you can email us email@example.com to get your questions answered on the air. Happy to keep you anonymous. Of course, a link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shout out, first in Natasha Holmes. Yes, we're keeping the recommendations in, and Jessica Clark, who headed to the Thrive Conference this past weekend. I wasn't there of course, but I hope you had fun and met some great people.
[01:01:12] And if you want to know how we managed to book all these great guests that we had on the show this week, manage our relationships. We use systems, we use tiny habits. We're teaching you how to do that for free. Check out the Six-Minute Networking Course over at jordanharbinger.com/course. And don't kick the can down the road, don't procrastinate. You got to dig that well before you're thirsty. Once you need those relationships, you are too late and the drills are a couple of minutes a day. I'm not asking you for a lot of your time here. You know me, I'm trying to do this in a way where you will actually get it done. You cannot ignore this skillset. You ignore it at your own peril. This is the stuff I wish I knew a decade ago. It is what saved our bacon when we had to rebrand, jordanharbinger.com/course.
[01:01:56] I'm also on Instagram and Twitter @jordanharbinger. Great way to engage with the show. I love hearing from you all there, Jason, where can they find you as well?
Jason DeFillippo: [01:02:04] My personal website is at jpd.me and you can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks at gog.show, or your podcast player of choice.
Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:12] All right, the show was co-produced with Jen Harbinger and show notes for this episode are by Robert Fogarty. Keep sending in those questions firstname.lastname@example.org. Remember to keep them concise if you can, and share the show with those you love and even those you don't. Lots more in the pipeline. Super excited to bring it to you. And in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time.
[01:02:37] Hey, if you like this show, you're going to like the shows on the Collider Network on PodcastOne. The YouTube channel is hitting the podcasting scene with everything for your pop culture needs. Check out Collider Sports Jedi Council, one on one with Kristian Harloff movies Schmoedown movie talk at. That's kind of a funny title, I'll give him that, and much more. Check out the Collider Network every week on PodcastOne or wherever you get your favorite pods.
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