633: Finding Work Fast with a Criminal Past | Feedback Friday

633: Finding Work Fast with a Criminal Past | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my sidekick in salvation, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind. 

[00:00:38] If you're new to the show — welcome — on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of absolutely incredible people from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week, we had Amanda Catarzi with a wild, personal experience of human trafficking and resilience. We also had my friend, Jon Acuff, on perfectionism, what it does, the harm it causes, and what we can do to navigate through it. So if you are a self-described perfectionist, I think that episode will go really far with you.

[00:01:09] I also write every so often on the blog, my latest post, how to quit your job. We've been getting this question at ton on the show lately, I guess the great resignation, really is real. So I wanted to write a piece about my philosophy and approach to leaving a position when to do it, how to do it, when you know you're going to do it for the right reasons, and how you can leave a job and even strengthen your reputation and your relationships in the process. You can find that article and all of our articles at jordanharbinger.com/articles. So make sure you've had a look and to listen to everything that we created for you here this week. 

[00:01:44] Before we get into it here, a lot of you have been asking what I think about the situation in Ukraine, knowing that on this show, you've heard a lot about Vladimir Putin, disinformation, espionage, geopolitics, et cetera — obviously, the entire world is rooting for Ukraine here with a few exceptions, but very few exceptions. I am Ukrainian and that my grandparents or great grandparents, depending on which side, were from there. I spent a summer living in working there when I was young and I lived with Russian Ukrainians. I lived in their home, in Odesa treating me like one of their own kids. I got fed housed and yelled at just like any other Ukrainian kid. I was only about 22 at the time. And it's crazy to think that the areas I lived in and we're running around in are essentially under amphibious assault right now by Russia. 

[00:02:32] But for me and for the world, this should not be about cheering for dead Russians, especially given that many of these guys literally don't even seem to have proper footwear, gasoline, socks. They were sent to be captured or killed by a sociopathic warmongering madman. War is and should not be some spectator sport where we cheer our favorite team from the sidelines. For most of us, this conflict is about admiring the epic and all inspiring levels of courage on full display for the world to see. From old men staring down tanks in their village to babushkas lining up with rifles and homemade Molotov cocktails, all the way up to President Zelenskyy who refuses to leave his country, even though it's under siege by what is thought to be one of the world's most powerful militaries.

[00:03:19] In fact, as many of you have probably heard he was offered safe passage out of Ukraine by the United States and by NATO. And he said, "I need ammunition, not a ride." So as we watch this conflict in horror and hope for peace, I hope you're also taking the opportunity to glean some inspiration and just how resilient we are as humans. And how sometimes even during the worst of times, humanity's best really does shine through.

[00:03:46] If you're interested in more on that particular subject, in that particular psychology and phenomenon, I encourage you to listen to Rutger Bregman. That's episode 494 of this show. You can go to jordanharbinger.com/494. He discusses how pressure in circumstances like this really is what turns us into diamonds. It's not that we have a thin veneer of civility on society. It's actually quite the opposite. We're seeing that play out in real time right now in Ukraine. Also I'd encourage everyone listening, not to pull a knee jerk reaction and become anti-Russia or anti-Russian, but certainly you can be fervently, anti-Putin and anti-authoritarian and anti-war.

[00:04:24] Russia, and by that, I mean, the people of Russia, the citizenry hardly has a choice in leadership, especially right now. And anyone who has lived in Russia or in close proximity to actual Russians knows they are one of the most incredible groups of people. Their potential has been ruthlessly limited by kleptocratic and authoritarian leaders for centuries. You can be both pro-Ukraine and pro-Russia, as well as anti-Putin and especially anti-war. I guess what I'm saying here, folks is don't throw the babushka out with the bathwater. 

[00:04:56] Also we've put together our episodes on Vladimir Putin and Russian disinformation into one of our playlists. You can find those playlist on Spotify or at jordanharbinger.com/start. That playlist includes our episodes with the famous Russian artists, Pussy Riot, as well as Bill Browder, who has been targeted by Putin and fought back quite effectively for a guy who's not a world leader, as well as with Michael McFaul, former ambassador to Russia from the United States. So there's a lot there for you to dive into if you're interested in more background on this conflict and on Russia and on Putin.

[00:05:28] Also, I fully expect that I'll be doing more podcasts on geopolitics and especially focusing on Ukraine, because this is not going to be a short conflict, unfortunately. Well, I hate to speculate, but this is probably going to go on for several months, if not years. My bet is, unfortunately, on a years long conflict, maybe not at this intensity. But this is not something that's going to melt away anytime soon, most likely. So expect more from me on Ukraine, on Russia, on Putin. And in the meantime, Slava Ukraini and on with the show. 

[00:05:58] Gabe, we got some good ones. What's the first thing out of the mailbag? 

[00:06:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan and Gabe, four years ago, I joined a secret startup within a major corporation in Silicon Valley. One year later, this division ran out of money and direction and I was left alone each day to do absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, my relationship with a girl I really loved ended. And since I was new to the Bay Area, I had no friends or colleagues I could confide in. Lonely, disheartened, and defeated, I escaped regularly to Santa Cruz and Monterey and stumbled into breweries than bars, then hopped in the car and then drove off to another bar cruising along the Pacific Coast Highway blasting music inches away from the rails. This went on for months. Then one night, I got pulled over by a cop for speeding past a stop sign at three in the morning. I was arrested for the first time in my life, fingerprints, mugshot, license taken away, and ultimately convicted of DUI. The next day, I found a criminal lawyer who immediately went to work on the case. I was so pie eyed that the night before they couldn't lower it to a wet and reckless as they call it. Later, I was able to watch the body cam footage from that night. And it was embarrassing. I'm ashamed of myself pity, but even more so of the danger I put my life and others in. Soon after that, I was fired for absolutely no reason for my job and without any notice. To this day, I can't help, but speculate that the arrest had something to do with this, but I'll never know. For the past three years, I've taken jobs that were off the career path I was buiding. I stepped down a few pegs and responsibilities and pay. I had to sell almost everything I owned, including my investments and the car that I loved so much. All of which has been very different. I tell myself that I'm paying my dues to society, but when does that end? I'm also trying to expunge my record. I called my original lawyer and a few others, and they all said it could take years before, even beginning the process. This is a problem because misdemeanors also include assault, theft, vandalism, and so on. So when I apply for jobs, I don't know how to answer the whole, have you been arrested or convicted questions. Am I obligated to answer those? How can I clear my record? So this embarrassing mistake will never show up in background checks. How can I get that body cam footage to be permanently deleted so it never shows up online? And most importantly, will this be a stain on my history for the rest of my life? Signed, Struggling to Walk in a Straight Line. 

[00:08:24] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, man, quite a story. I'm very sorry that you lost your job in that way and that you ended up in this situation. You sound like a very grounded person, super humble open, and I know that getting this DUI and losing a lot of your assets has been incredibly difficult. I do think there's the potential for a huge growth in breakdowns like this. But before we get to that, let's dig into some of your more practical questions.

[00:08:48] Of course, we wanted to get an expert's opinion on your story. So as per uge, we'd reached out to Corbin Payne, defense attorney and friend of the show. And C Payne said that he actually gets this question on a fairly consistent basis, as you might imagine. Unfortunately, he said the advice from your lawyer about expungements sounds about right. According to Corbin, it takes several years to be eligible to apply for expungement. And that tends to be especially true when it comes to DUIs, which sucks. And I wish we had better news on that front, but it sounds like it's going to stay on the record for a while. And, you know, candidly, I understand that. DUIs are fairly serious and they put other people in danger as you've mentioned in your letter. 

[00:09:25] As far as the body cam video goes, Corbin said that these things, they tend to disappear or get destroyed after a certain point. Usually that point comes after the window to appeal and then some. Also these videos, they aren't generally accessible to the public. So it's not like this thing is just hanging out on YouTube or some sleazy video website where people can watch and laugh at people trying to complete the field sobriety test or something. Even when videos like this, get featured on the show Cops or whatever the faces are blurred. No one's name gets dropped. So in Corbin's view, this concern just really isn't worth losing sleep over. 

[00:10:00] Now, the whole, have you ever been arrested or convicted question, Corbin did say that you will need to answer that one truthfully, but most job applications, they include a line or two where you can explain what happened and Corbin's advice there, be forthright, share some context, but you don't have to share all the ugly details. You can write that you were convicted of a DUI when you were at an emotional low point. And then you can tell them in a sentence or two, how you've bounced back from this mistake, how you've used the experience to be a better person, maybe help other people.

[00:10:31] The key thing here is that this DUI, it doesn't define you. It's a part of your past, but that only means it's one part of your story. For what it's worth, Corbin said that if he saw an answer like that on an employment application, he'd be very willing to bring that person in for an interview, assuming, of course, that they're qualified. And I agree with him. With the right story, from a great candidate, I could overlook something like that, especially if it's a few years ago. Now not all hiring managers are as open as that. Some places might have very rigid policies about criminal history, possibly for good reasons, but that's not all places. 

[00:11:06] You might get rejected by four out of five places for a period of time. But you just need that one person who is not going to define you based on this one mistake. And then from there you crush the interview. You show people that you're a solid, smart, responsible guy who deserves a shot. And hopefully, you land a job you love. It'll take hard work. It'll take some patients, but I'm pretty confident given your background and your personality, that that'll happen eventually. As for how to live the rest of your life from here on out, Corbin's take, and I agree with them completely, the best way to overcome a mistake like this is really to own it. Everybody makes mistakes, 

[00:11:43] Corbin and I were talking about it and it is actually crazy how many of our acquaintances have had DUI convictions in the past? I'm not saying like, all my friends do this or something. I just mean like a lot of people you know, that don't talk about it, have skeletons like this in their closet. And these people, they are not dumpster fires. They are smart, morally upright, otherwise responsible people who made one fairly large mistake a long time ago albeit, again, a serious one and got themselves into a mess. And after going through the embarrassment and the anger and the financial hit, they've gone on to lead super productive, fulfilling lives. 

[00:12:19] Point is people love a good story, especially a good redemption story. So if you want to work through the shame of this incident, try to put it to good use. The best way to do that is to tell your story. And Corbin pointed out that schools, youth groups, civic groups, youth development programs, they would probably love to have someone come in and tell their story about drinking and driving and help kids see that it is not worth it. And that it is super dangerous. But you might find other places to tell that story, too. Alcohol recovery programs, support groups, self-help forums online, a personal blog. I don't know. There's so many ways to publicly take ownership of what you did. Talk about what you learned, capture how you've changed as a person, and control the narrative a little bit more here. 

[00:13:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. That is great advice because also when a, quote-unquote, "shameful secret" is out in the open, it's kind of no longer shameful or at least it's a lot less shameful. And when it's out in the open and it's actively being used to make the world a better place to help other people, then it can actually create some meaning. It can actually be empowering. So when it comes time to fill out those extra lines on a job application, it would probably really help to say something like, "This is what happened. It was a mistake that I made. I take full ownership over it since then I've become a much more responsible person. And now I speak to high schools and youth groups about the dangers of drinking and driving. And I'm grateful to be able to turn my mistake into an opportunity for other people." That kind of thing, that sort of statement speaks volumes. And it says so much more than just, you know, "Uh, I was arrested for DUI because I was kind of down on myself and I'm really sorry." You know, I think if you take control of the narrative in that way people will see you in a very different light. 

[00:13:56] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. He can use his true redemption story to paint the picture of who he is now. And I really think that a land with people. So that's our advice own this part of your story. Try to use it for good and keep on building your career. And I got to say your email was very encouraging. You're not rationalizing this. You're not defensive about it. You're not self-pitying. You realize this is a huge mistake. You're clearly on your way to becoming stronger for what you have been through. Your head and your heart are in exactly the right place. Again, I know this DUI really curved your life. It hit you emotionally and financially. It's closed a few doors, but I also think it's opening other ones. If you work with it the right way. I know it's trite, but you can't change the past. All you can do is make meaning out of it and figure out how you want to live differently from here on out, which is exactly what you're doing. 

[00:14:46] Eventually, and I hope soon, you won't feel like this thing defines you, but until then, you're going to have to accept it fully and start building the story and the relationships you need to land the opportunities that you want. It may take you an extra few years, but that's okay. You might even find that it puts you on a different track, but a better one. One you couldn't have even considered if you hadn't gotten pulled over that night. So keep your eyes open, put in the work. Be patient. You got this, man. We're sending you good thoughts.

[00:15:14] You know who encourages me to recklessly binge drink and use heavy machinery? The products and services that help support this show. We'll be right back. 

[00:15:24] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. 

[00:15:28] This episode is sponsored in part by TextExpander. People always think the messages they get from me or from a robot or something, but they're not. It's me. They're shocked to find out. I am personally responding to thousands of messages every single week. My secret weapon that I'm sharing with you is TextExpander. Our entire team uses it. It's like keyboard shortcuts on fire. I know you're thinking, "Oh, I can just copy and paste." TextExpander is way more powerful than that. You can customize message templates, fill in a name, use drop down menus for different message options, depending on what message you want to send. In the past month, it has saved me personally, just five hours of straight up typing. Like literally the seconds between things, it has saved me five hours. TextExpander, even shares statistics on how much time each individual user has saved, how many snippets have been extended. Super cool, kind of addicting. A listener wrote to me after hearing me talk about TextExpander saying she tried it and was able to improve her team's everyday operations by implementing TextExpander in their customer service center, as well as in their engineering team. She got serious prompts within the company.

[00:16:26] Jen Harbinger: Try it for free and see how you can increase your productivity with TextExpander. Our listeners get 20 percent off your first year. Visit textexpander.com/jordan to learn more about TextExpander. 

[00:16:37] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Masterworks. In the past year, your paychecks average buying power became worth almost eight percent less. That's the real impact of inflation on your earnings, but instead of blaming Washington or the fed, you need to balance your investments and finances in a way that mitigates the effect of inflation. Masterworks lets you invest in blue-chip art and asset class, which saw a price appreciation of 23 percent on average when inflation is above three percent, like it is right now. Their team of art experts analyze over 60,000 data points to find trending artists with a high potential for growth. Then members can purchase shares representing an investment in those artworks on their platform. 

[00:17:11] Jen Harbinger: So go to masterworks.io and use code JORDAN to join over 300,000 other members. Again, that's masterworks.io promo code JORDAN. See important regulation or any disclosures, and the offering circular at masterworks.io/about/disclosure. 

[00:17:25] Jordan Harbinger: Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and/or services? You can always visit jordanharbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show.

[00:17:39] And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:17:43] All right, what's next? 

[00:17:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, despite working in tech, the most optimistic field there is I find myself battling a constant wave of hopelessness and dread about what the future holds for our planet. I find it difficult to manage feelings of loss for something that sometimes feels inevitable. The problem feels so huge and I can't help, but be overwhelmed by it. How do I better manage my emotions around my eco-anxiety and how can I best handle uncertainty on this scale? Signed, Drowning in These Rising Sea Levels. 

[00:18:16] Jordan Harbinger: This is a really great question. I think a lot of people can relate to how you're feeling these days. And if it isn't climate change, that's keeping you up at night, it's any number of other awful things that seem unsolvable — inequality, human trafficking, animal rights, war, why people are watching How I Met Your Father — whatever it is, there are just so many reasons these days to feel anxious, sad, angry, and those feelings can be crushing. So, look, the roots of eco-anxiety or company. It's not just about what you read about in the news. It's also about your personality, your upbringing, your worldview, how the news interacts with those factors. Obviously, we can't do a whole therapy sesh here, but here are some thoughts to guide you. 

[00:19:00] First of all, I think a big part of coping with your anxiety about the world is taking action in some form. I know the problem of climate change seems overwhelming and intractable. But as long as it remains overwhelming and intractable in your mind, all it will ever be is a source of pain. But if you can do something to contribute to the solution, whether it's leading conservation efforts, volunteering with an NGO you care about, donating to causes you believe in, getting other people to care about it, writing about it, or even just appreciating nature more fully when you're in it, because you know how precious it is, whatever it is. I think that'll go a long way in easing the anxiety. Because when you take action, even if your contribution is small, you're converting the anxiety you feel into something productive, something useful, rather than just being consumed by the feeling. 

[00:19:49] You're turning your grief and your anger into fuel. And that is so powerful. In fact, a lot of psychologists say that using your emotions in that way, that can actually resolve the initial impulse toward anxiety or anger altogether. It's really a higher order relationship with your feelings in general. Now, I know it might seem fetal sometimes. Like what can one person do to save the planet? And I get that. So, what I would do is take a tiny piece of the problem and work on that. You can't reduce China or the United States submissions on your own. You can't stop deforestation tomorrow. No one can. Collectively, we, maybe, but even then, these are massive generational. But you can spend a few hours a week volunteering at an animal sanctuary. You can phone bank for conservation non-profits. You can collect donations for a clean-up project in your neighborhood. You can coordinate petitions against companies that concern you. You can vote for candidates who reflect your values. All of these things are absolutely doable on a micro scale. And the huge stuff, the saving the world stuff, it's always made up of these tiny, incremental steps.

[00:20:59] So what I'm getting at is you have to start training your mind to change its scale. Your mind looks at this problem and goes, "Holy crap. The whole planet is dying. There's nothing we can do. I'm going to freak out now," but you can tell your mind to go, "Okay, the planet is in trouble. Why? What are the pieces of this problem in my neck of the woods? What small thing can I do to help change that?" And over time, your mind will start to change its script. It'll start focusing on the micro controllable stuff and stop fixating on the macro/hopeless stuff, which is where anxiety gets its food. It's time to freak out energy. 

[00:21:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, great advice, Jordan. Action really is the answer, but at the same time, I also think it's super important to know when to disengage, you know, when to let go a little bit, because the news, as we all know is relentless, right? The Internet is insane. I mean, if you want, you can have a steady stream of reasons to freak out about the world, basically 24/7. So you have to be very deliberate about when and how you consume your news, especially your climate change news. Because if you're constantly refreshing the NASA website or you're reading every press release that Greenpeace puts out, as soon as they post it, then of course, they're going to be miserable, right? Those sources, even the sources that mean well, they're really designed to stoke your eco-anxiety. That's their job. 

[00:22:17] And by the way, knowing when to stop doomscrolling and when to start putting boundaries around your reading time, that's not sticking your head in the sand. That's not denial. That's discipline. That's taking care of your mental health because the planet is going to be the way it is. Whether you obsess about this stuff constantly or not. Rather than indulge that impulse to consume as much climate change information as possible, which I'm guessing you do because you care so much, I would treat it like a task, you know, carve out an hour each week, catch up on your climate change news, research some ways to help. And that's it. After that, if you catch yourself ruminating about it, stop ruminating, start making some plans to do something. And if there are no plans to be made at that moment, then you're done thinking about it. And it's not because it doesn't matter anymore. It's not because you don't care. It's because thinking about it constantly in this way is not actually doing anything. And it's really just giving your mind another reason to worry. 

[00:23:09] And if you need a little bit more help there, then maybe consider talking to a therapist about the eco-anxiety. From what I'm reading online, a lot of therapists are hearing the exact same phenomenon from their patients. Talk about what triggers it, where it comes from, what heightens it, how to cope with it, because if you feel this anxiety about the planet, I'm guessing you probably wrestle with our response in other areas of your life, and that makes this even more important to work on. 

[00:23:34] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, totally agree, Gabe. As for your bigger question about dealing with uncertainty, I recommend checking out the deep dive Gabe and I did on this exact topic a few years back. That was episode 4. Yeah, 4, jordanharbinger.com/4 will take you there, but we'll also link to it in the show notes. Obviously, it's super early episode. I think that'll be a very interesting listen for you right now. The feelings are having, they're not wrong. They make sense and they're appropriate given the state of the world, but they're just not the full story. You get to decide what they mean and what to do with them. Start focusing on that. And I think you'll find some relief and probably a ton of motivation too. Good luck. 

[00:24:12] You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise, include a descriptive subject line that makes our job easier. If there's something you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or you need a new perspective on stuff like life, love, work. What to do if every therapist you talk to wants to report your big secret? Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. 

[00:24:38] All right, next up. 

[00:24:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabriel, I've been with my fiancée for four years and engaged for just over a year. We fell in love and moved in together very quickly. And I've trusted her from the start. Then last weekend, I took a call with a former coworker. It was a platonic call with absolutely no flirtation or attraction whatsoever. When my fiancée learned about it though, she lost her mind and accused me of cheating, which was weird because I've never been accused of cheating before, and I've never even come close to it in any way. A few days later, she flew out for a work trip and happened to leave her broken phone behind. I had never been tempted to go through her phone before, but something just didn't feel right. Sure enough on her old phone were conversations she was having with her male coworker, a married guy with children. The texts were not overtly sexual, but they included "I love you," from both parties and, "I have never felt this way before." I immediately called her and sent her screenshots to show her that I knew. It turns out she was actually on the plane to go see him. 

[00:25:40] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh. 

[00:25:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's intense. 

[00:25:43] The next day, my fiancée wanted us to reconcile. She insisted that our coworker meant nothing to her and that their romance only started a little over a week ago, although she's known him for years. She claims that they have never been physical and that my catching her stopped anything from happening. The issue is I still love her, but right now I absolutely hate her. And I don't know how to move past. She wants us to move on like nothing happened. She wants me to trust her, but I can't see a path forward without a significant amount of therapy. What complicates matters though, is that the past few months have been tough. We've both been working more than ever. So I'll admit I haven't been giving her the attention that she wants and deserves. She says that that's all this affair was attention-seeking, but I can't comprehend how telling another man, "I love you," is just attention seeking. I also don't want to talk to my friends or family about the situation. I know that once I tell someone what happened, it will change the way they view her and also me. I hate the idea of people seeing me as the guy who accepts her cheating and still decides to pursue a marriage with her. So what do I do? Signed, Deflated, Frustrated and Isolated. 

[00:26:49] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Wow. This is some lifetime movie-ish right here. I am so sorry you've been going through this man. This is obviously a very painful situation to go through, especially leading up to your wedding. But it's particularly jarring now, after she accuses you of cheating. I mean, Gabe, project much— 

[00:27:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yup. 

[00:27:06] Jordan Harbinger: —so textbook, right? Like— 

[00:27:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: So textbook. 

[00:27:08] Jordan Harbinger: "Oh, you must be cheating on me." "Hmm, that's odd. Where's this coming from?" "Oh, you're cheating — you're literally on a plane right now to go bang some stranger, jeez." So look, I admire that you're being so open and self-aware about how you ended up. I agree with you that infidelity doesn't just happen. Hell, I learned that from Loveline in like 1993, Dr. Drew. Shout out to Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla, right? There are usually deeper causes, complicating factors, but that doesn't mean that you caused your fiancée to cheat. It's great that you're curious about what role you might've played in all this, that says a lot about you, but I wouldn't blame yourself for what she did.

[00:27:46] If your fiancée was disappointed with your relationship, the appropriate response, the healthy sane response would have been to talk to you about it. You know, like, "Honey, I'm feeling a little distant from you lately. I feel like work is getting in the way of us. I want some attention. I'm sure you do too. Can we carve out some time to talk, catch up, spend some time together?" But that is not what she did. Looking for what she needed from another guy that is not the right way to solve this problem, full stop. And I hate to say this because I know it hurts but, Gabe, I am totally not buying at all this whole, "Oh, it was just an emotional affair thing." She's known this guy for a year. 

[00:28:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:28:25] Jordan Harbinger: She just got on a frigging plane to go see. I mean, do you really fly to meet someone to have a purely emotional affair? Hell no. You're not just talking about your day in a Marriott Suite in Grand Cayman or whatever, right? You know what I mean? Like, I guess it's possible, this was the first time they were meeting up in that way but, one, I just feel like that's unlikely still. At a minimum, they were about to take that next step and I'm not bringing this up to be cruel and rubbed the whole thing in, or like make it worse. I just think it's important for this guy to be realistic about what's going on here, especially considering that his fiancée, she's not exactly a reliable narrator.

[00:29:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, she is not. And also if she's correct, if she's telling the truth that this has only been going on for a week, then it's extra weird that they're already saying, I love you after— 

[00:29:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:29:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: —a week. Even if they have known each other for — I don't know. It's just the whole thing doesn't quite. So I'm with you. I agree, absolutely. And I'm sure there's also a lot more going on for her and all of this stuff that we just can't possibly know. Like what led her to look elsewhere to keep this a secret from you? To project her shame onto you in the form of paranoia, basically. And then to try to just bury it and move on as quickly as possible so that you guys can just get right back on track. I mean, there were like two or three other red flags were varied within this huge red flag. Now, she's not the one writing in, we only have your side of the story here. So that's all I'll say about that. But yeah, she has a lot of work to do to figure out why she is behaving in this way. And that is not all on you. Yes, there is a dynamic here. There always is, but that's really her stuff. 

[00:29:56] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. So the best advice I can offer you at this point is to have some very honest conversations with your fiancée. You guys need to figure out how you ended up here, what drew her to another person, why she lashed out at you, what kind of future you guys actually have. If you feel there is a future with her, then you need to resolve all of this stuff before you get married. And I don't mean say some I'm sorrys and kiss and makeup. I mean, get deep with each other about how you're behaving in this relationship, what this relationship is bringing up for you and especially for your fiancée. 

[00:30:31] And if that's hard to do on your own — I'm a broken record — but I would strongly encourage you to go to therapy, couples counseling. You guys have a lot to get out and explore and resolve if you're going to have a good marriage. And if you give that a shot and your fiancée doesn't really want to go there, or you realize that something fundamental has been broken or that your fiancée is just a very different person from who you thought, then I would really consider if this is the person you want to marry. 

[00:30:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. That is the question, absolutely. But there is another thing we have to talk about in this letter, Jordan, which is his hesitation to talk about any of this with his friends or with his family. He said he doesn't want to reach out to them because he knows that once he tells someone what happened, it'll change the way they view her and also how they view him. I mean, look, I get it. It's a legitimate concern. But it also sounds to me like he's trying to almost like he's trying to manage how other people view his fiancée. Like he's protecting her from the opinions that other people will have, maybe pretty legitimate opinions, about what she did. 

[00:31:31] Jordan Harbinger: That is fascinating. That's a good point. I mean, this girl cheated on him and he's worried about her reputation. 

[00:31:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. It's like, he's trying to do that in addition to minimizing the shame he anticipates feeling when other people see him as the guy who took his cheating fiancée back, which he's not even close to making that decision yet. He's like in the thick of just dealing with the news. And again, I do understand, I'm sure people will have some judgments about this if they get back together. But I guess my point is the hit to her reputation and other people's opinions about him down the line, that's all secondary to the huge thing going on here, which is, "Why did you cheat on me and what does that mean for our relationship?"

[00:32:09] And so I wonder if that kind of over caretaking and that self-consciousness, and also that concern, that quite profound concern about what other people think, if that is showing up in your life or in your relationship in other ways, and if that might've contributed to the distance you described with your fiancée in your letter, again, not that you caused her to do this, but because you're so curious about the part of this you might've played a role in. I do think it's useful to consider how these aspects of your personality might have been showing up in your relationship. 

[00:32:39] Jordan Harbinger: That's a really good point. And also this thing of, "I hate the idea of people seeing me as the guy who accept her cheating and still decides to pursue a marriage with her," I think that's very telling too. 

[00:32:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:32:50] Jordan Harbinger: Because like you said, people will have strong opinions about that. And I understand not wanting to air your dirty laundry with friends and family. I totally get it. But if you and your fiancée really want to get to the bottom of this, if you work on your stuff, your baggage here, and become a healthier. And you get to a place where you can trust her to never do this again, which let me be clear, that is really tough. It's going to take a lot of time and effort. It is theoretically possible, then it ultimately doesn't matter what other people think. This is your marriage. It's not theirs. So I just keep an eye on that impulse to factor in judgments from other people, especially hypothetical judgments.

[00:33:28] You're worried about how people will view you if you took her back. But what you should really be concerned about right now is how to understand this situation, work through this wound, and figure out what you really want. 

[00:33:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. And also, because you could probably use a good friend or two right now. And you not talking about this, that's only going to make the shame and the confusion worse. You can't cut yourself off from the support you need in order to protect your fiancée or your future self for that matter, but the fact that you're so concerned about those perceptions, I would definitely bring that into therapy too, because that is super interesting. 

[00:34:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's another part of his personality that he could learn a lot from, not that it's wrong, just clearly a big part of who he is and how he's working through this situation or not working through it as the case may be. 

[00:34:12] So good luck, man. I know this is very complicated stuff, incredibly painful, but the best thing you can do is be absolutely honest with yourself and your fiancée. Get the support that you need and figure out if you guys can heal and grow from this, or if this is a fundamental rupture in your relationship. It might take a little time to see the situation clearly. You can't read the label when you're inside the jar and all that, but you'll get there and we're wishing you the best man. And we're sending you a bro hug here from sunny California. 

[00:34:41] You know who doesn't fly across the country to bang their coworkers? 

[00:34:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Who, uh, who? 

[00:34:46] Jordan Harbinger: The folks who work at the sponsors who help support this show, top-notch office culture. We'll be right back.

[00:34:53] This is The Jordan Harbinger Show. And this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. 

[00:34:57] This episode is sponsored in part by Wrkout. My friend Curtis has created something that has been absolutely game-changing for me and my mom actually, who's 80. I want to share it with all of you as well. I hired a personal trainer for a few days a week, started with three days, increased it to four. I'm getting so much stronger and more flexible. My trainers really knowledgeable. I tell them I have like tightness in a knee and he'll tell me where to roll out or zap with my Theragun and what stretches and exercises to do. So not only do I feel great, but I'm also able to get down low, play with my son who's two years old, get rid of knee and hip pain, stuff like that. That I thought was just forever, you know, being 42 and I love that workout is virtual training. I'm not driving anywhere. I don't have some dude coming over wake me up in the morning. I just get up and work out in my garage. They utilize whatever equipment you already have. For me, I started out with body weight exercises that required pretty much no equipment. I was leaning up on coffee tables and stuff. If you want to see what virtual personal training with a live trainer can do for you, check out workout.com/jordan. That's W-R-K-O-U-T.com/jordan. They're offering a 10-day free trial. Plus if you tell them I sent you, you get 20 percent off your first training package. I cannot recommend this enough. I know a bunch of you have taken the plunge and I seriously cannot recommend this enough. 

[00:36:09] This episode is also sponsored by Progressive. What's one thing you'd purchase with a little extra savings? A weighted blanket, a smart speaker, that new self-care trend you keep hearing about. Well, progressive wants to make sure you're getting what you want by helping you save money on car insurance. Drivers who saved by switching to Progressive save over $700 on average. And customers can qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up. Discounts like having multiple vehicles on your policy. Progressive offers outstanding coverage and award-winning claim service. Day or night, they have customer support 24/7, 365 days a year. When you need them most, they're at their best. A little off your rate each month goes a long way. Get a quote today at progressive.com and see why four out of five new auto customers recommend progress. 

[00:36:49] Jen Harbinger: Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National Annual Average Insurance Savings by new customers surveyed who saved with progressive between June 2020 and May 2021. Potential savings will vary. Discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations. 

[00:37:03] Jordan Harbinger: And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. 

[00:37:06] All right, next up. 

[00:37:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I'm a gap year student making the most of my year before college, I've been hitting my bucket list over the last few months, working in various dream locations. And now I want to use the money I've saved to go abroad and let the real adventures begin. Some of the countries on my list have created controversy with my parents who have forbid me from going to some higher risk areas. These include budget tours in Iran and Turkmenistan and backpacking through Iraqi Kurdistan, Lebanon, and Russia. I'm an experienced traveler and I've been to dozens of countries in the past. Some of which were also higher risk. I've done research and I believe that the benefits of visiting these places outweighs the risks. How much of a say should my parents have if I'm self-funding my travels and how can I make them trust my judgment? Signed, Strapping on My Backpack Without All the Blowback. 

[00:37:57] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh boy, do I relate to this question? As you probably know, I've traveled to some pretty wild, sometimes scary places in my life and that worst-case scenario that parents worry about some of those have actually happened to me, a few times. I've talked about that on the show a bunch. In fact, the first trip that Gabe and I ever did together was to North Korea about 10 years. And, yeah, people had some pretty strong opinions about that one, but it was absolutely incredible, super eyeopening, not really immediately dangerous in the least. And I'm glad we didn't let a few paranoid family members or the state department website stop us from going.

[00:38:35] I mean, there's always a risk when you travel. Bad things do happen. I'm not denying that. But to your point, the upside to visiting these places that often far outweighs the risks if the risks are even real in the first. So to answer your question, how much of a say should your parents have. Well, that partly depends on your relationship and your values.

[00:38:56] In my opinion, they have very little say maybe almost none. Not because they don't get to state their opinion, but because you're an adult. You're paying for this yourself and you can ultimately do whatever you want. Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them at all, or be reckless about your plans. I wouldn't book a home stay in Aleppo right now, or camp out on the Ukrainian Russian border or something like that. But you don't sound reckless. You sound fairly responsible and level headed. 

[00:39:24] So my advice is this. Talk to your parents, hear them out, use their concerns to fuel your research. If they're like, "You want to go to Turkmenistan, but they arrest people there just for talking to locals. And then they throw you in a Gulag." You can say, "Got it. Concerns about free speech, what the laws are, harsh punishment. Let me look into that." And then you do your research. You read a bunch of travel blogs by people who've been there. You read up on local laws. Maybe you email a couple experts or locals and you find out just if any of that is true, and then you go back to your parents and you say, "So, listen, I heard your concerns. Thank you for bringing. I did my homework. And it turns out that you have to go way out of your way to break the laws in Turkmenistan. They're very clear about what's illegal and what's not. And I would never break those. Also Iraqi Kurdistan, much safer than the rest of Iraq for what that's worth. Crime rates are super low. Every site I've read says that people can travel there without any worries. But I'm glad you brought it up because now I know to avoid the cities near the Syrian and Turkish borders. That can get a little dicey. So I'm going to stay away from that." 

[00:40:26] And hey, if it puts them at ease, maybe you print out some of your research so they can read it for themselves. Maybe they'll sleep a little easier at night if they can physically see the data that you're using to plan your trip. In other words, be respectful, show your parents that you've really have done your homework, invite them into your planning process. That's the best way you can make them trust your judgment. It's actually the only way, really. 

[00:40:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's right. But if you do that in your parents are just like, "No way. This is crazy. There's no way we can get on board with this." Then my advice is to say, "Okay, I'm sorry. You feel that way. These trips, these trips. They're really important to me. You know, I'm confident that I'm doing it as safely as I can. So I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to do it. I know it must be scary to watch your kid go off and backpack with Bedouins without wifi for a month" or whatever you're going to be doing, "but I can't let your feelings stop me from living my own life." And then you just have to accept their fear and do it anyway.

[00:41:22] You know, it's funny, Jordan. I remember when we went to North Korea, the first time, my parents were actually really surprisingly, super supportive about it. They were like, "Oh, interesting. You've done your research. I get it. I trust you. It sounds incredible. Like once in a lifetime opportunity, go for it." And then when we came back and we started writing about it and talking about it, we were like doing those. We were doing like new segments about it and stuff. And then we went back to three, four more times, my mom was really not happy about it. And it was actually, I would say probably the only time in our relationship where we weren't really talking. 

[00:41:55] Jordan Harbinger: No way. I did not know that. 

[00:41:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was a little tense, yeah. And my mom and I are super close and it was really hard and she was really upset with me and I understood why she was upset. If I were a mother, I would not want my son going off to North Korea for, you know, after talking publicly about it and I get it. I totally understood it, but I also knew that I had to go, like I had to go, I had a job that was taking me there at the time. I was working with this travel agency that wanted me to take people there. And I was getting like incredible photos and stories and I was writing pieces about it. And I was starting to build my cred as a writer based on those travels. And it was just so important to me that I go, even if it upset my mom. 

[00:42:31] And I just remember that being a really difficult period of two or three or four weeks, you know, before and after the trip. But when I came home and she saw that I was okay, it was, it was fine again. And I think I was like, ultimately I was very happy that I didn't not go just because I wanted to protect my mom from not having to worry. Because it was really important for my development and also, ultimately, for carving out my own identity.

[00:42:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That is a great point. He has to live his life. He's old enough. He's also an experienced traveler. He's not like a guy who's never been out of the house and he's like, "I want to do something that most daring trip I can find," right? 

[00:43:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. 

[00:43:02] Jordan Harbinger: This is a guy who's probably already been all over the place. And he's like, "Hey, I'm young. I have time. I want to go to these crazy places while I have virtually no responsibility."

[00:43:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: For sure. 

[00:43:10] Jordan Harbinger: Also, you don't necessarily have to tell your parents every detail of your itinerary in advance. Something I did was I would tell my friends where I was going. I would give them emergency contact info. And then I would tell my parents after I got back from Kosovo or Albania or whatever. They weren't thrilled about it. But instead of losing sleep and panicking for three straight, they were just sort of mildly miffed because I was already back safe and sound. The pressure was already off right there. They had nothing to really worry about at that point. 

[00:43:39] So I say, go for it, man. You're young, you worked hard for this money. You're going to be dining out on these stories for years. And I think going to these places will literally change your life. I love your adventurous spirit. It's super exciting. Just do your homework. Be safe. Be smart. Have backup plans. Don't look for trouble, you don't need. Soak it all up. I'm actually kind of envious. So I hope you have a lot of fun. 

[00:44:04] Okay. What's next? 

[00:44:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I'm entering my third year of medical school next month, where I will work in a hospital full time and be graded based on my day-to-day performance. I'm the stereotypical feminine female with a petite build and a soft voice. Because of the way I present myself, I've had some interesting encounters with male patients, colleagues, and superiors. For example, I've had patients call me sweetheart or darling. I've had people ask me, "Are you old enough to be here?" I've had some people mock the strength of my strikes when I performed the knee-jerk exam and I've had other people cut me off or speak over me. Outside of my institution, I've had people laugh at me when I tell them that I want to go into emergency medicine saying things like, "Are you sure? Are you strong enough to adjust a dislocated shoulder?" stuff like that. Because I don't like drama, I remain silent in situations like this, but deep down, I feel defeated. How do I not let others judge me by how I look and how do I thrive in a field where masculinity is deemed equal to competency? Signed, Not Getting Down When I do My Rounds. 

[00:45:10] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, this is super frustrating. It takes so much work to be a doctor, especially an ER doctor.. And then to have people diminish you or mock you all because you look or sound a certain way. I'm sure that is very demoralizing. I know a few female doctors and they've all told me stories like this, the sweetheart stuff, the "Are you old enough to be my doctor?" stuff, all of it. And even when it's not overt, sometimes you just sense that these people have biases and sometimes that's even worse. So I get why this upsets you. You're right. Male doctors don't get this nearly as much. I think that's well-documented. But I also think this is a great opportunity to correct some stereotypes and build up your personality a little bit. So let's dig in. 

[00:45:54] We wanted an expert opinion on your question. So we consulted with Michelle Tillis Lederman speaker, elite, executive coach, and author of The Connector's Advantage, and perhaps most importantly, great friend of mine. And Michelle said that you basically have a couple options here. Option one, shift the way you present yourself to other people, physically, vocally.

[00:46:14] For example, you might pull your shoulders back when you speak to have a more powerful stance, or you could get some vocal coaching so that you speak with a little more emphasis, a little more conviction. You don't have to be super loud all the time, but you can still be pointed and firm. And Michelle's experience, when you start to develop your style in that way, it'll be a lot harder for people to minimize the things that are coming out of your mouth. And by the way, I can refer you to my own vocal coach. I'm happy to do that. Just shoot me an email. 

[00:46:38] Now, I know that's more of a surface level solution. It might seem like style more than substance, but style is actually really important and the best style comes from substance. But that'll take some time to really build, and you'll still be dealing with these little conversations on a daily basis. Michelle said option two is to just call people out when they say stuff like this, but call them out in a way that doesn't call out their bad intent. So for example, when somebody calls you, sweetheart, you might say, "Listen, I trust that you don't mean anything by that, but I prefer to be called, you know, Doctor or Miss or just my name." Say that with a little smile on your face. Don't let it throw you. You might be surprised by how easily people fall in line. 

[00:47:23] Michelle said that you can also use humor to get your point across. So if somebody goes, "Are you old enough to be here?" Maybe you say, "Actually I'm the oldest person in the office. I just have a great skincare routine." See what I mean? Have a little laugh, shift the tone, get right back to work and show that patient why you're 100 percent qualified to treat them. As for people cutting you off or speaking over you, in Michelle's view, that is something you absolutely cannot allow. And the way you do that, according to her, is simply by saying, "Excuse me, I wasn't quite finished," or, "Please allow me to finish," and then finish your thought. Try not to get too worked up or angry and try not to hold it against. Just own the space you need to speak. And I think you'll slowly start to implicitly teach people not to cut you off. 

[00:48:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I think that's super smart advice. And overall Michelle's take was that you have to take each instance as it comes, you know, consider the context and just address what's happening in that moment uniquely. Which means taking responsibility for how people treat you, but also for how you're responding to how they treat you. Because there will always be patients or colleagues or strangers who say something dumb or hurtful, and you can't control that like at all, but you can control how you react and how you keep doing a great job despite them. And also how you show them that there are assumptions about you are ultimately wrong. And not to be cavalier about it, because I know these comments can be really tough, but that's what's great about this kind of adversity, how it basically forces you to develop aspects of yourself that you might not have otherwise developed.

[00:48:57] Because you know, when some bro you meet at a party goes, you know, "Are you really strong enough to pop his shoulder back in, little lady?" or whatever these guys are saying to you and you stay quiet because to use your words, you'd rather avoid drama, you're signaling to them that they might be right about you. They're not right, but that might be the impression that you're unintentionally confirming. Whereas if you hear that and you put a smile on your face and you go, "Well, I actually popped four of them back in this month. So yeah, I think I can handle it, but definitely keep asking me questions like that, but maybe I'll pop yours out just for the practice," then you'll get your point across real quick. And it would also be a super fun way to rewrite some of these assumptions about you.

[00:49:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, good point. Look it's sucks that she has to check people in that way, but it might actually end up making her a better doctor, a stronger colleague, and probably just a funnier person, more resilient person in general. So give it a shot. See how it goes. And whenever you find yourself feeling defeated, check in with yourself and ask: how could I have responded better in that moment? What can I do differently next time? What is this person forcing me to confront? Do these people's opinions truly reflect my ability and my right to be here or is it just their own biases that I just need to ignore? In a weird way, I think you'll find that all these hurtful people they're actually helping you if you take Michelle's approach and you use these little jabs as fuel to get better. 

[00:50:18] Thanks for writing in dollface. No, but for real, good luck. We're rooting for you. We'll link to Michelle's website and her book in the show notes, highly recommend checking that out and congrats on becoming a doctor, such an awesome accomplishment and a very admirable profession. 

[00:50:32] Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Amanda Catarzi and Jon Acuff if you haven't yet. 

[00:50:41] If you want to know how I managed to book all these amazing folks for the show, it's about my network, systems, software, tiny habits, check out our Six-Minute Networking course. The course is free. It's over on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course, I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty and create relationships before you need them. The drills, they take a few minutes per day. Ignore this type of habit at your own peril. Really, I wish I knew this stuff 20 years. All for free at jordanharbinger.com/course. 

[00:51:08] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn and you can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizahi. 

[00:51:23] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Corbin Payne. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please do share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:51:59] If you're looking for another episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a trailer about deep fakes with Nina Schick. 

[00:52:06] Nina Schick: We're no longer going to know what's authentic and what's synthetic. And not only that it's going to become accessible to everyone. Porn is the beginning. The creations were just unlike anything anyone had seen before. This is a real life video where the celebrities moving her face, she's got different expressions. I can make a nude image of your sister, your wife, your mom, from a single photo, for example, from Facebook. Minors are being targeted as well, young girls. We are living at a time where there's going to be more disruption and flux than potentially has ever been in the history of humanity. And the reason for that is because of the exponential technological change that's coming our way. What is this information ecosystem that's basically come into existence in the past 30 years? It's going to take some time for society to catch up. 

[00:52:55] Jordan Harbinger: To learn more about how we can avoid being duped by deep fakes, check out episode 486 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:53:03] Are you ready for a podcast that doesn't hold back? Check out The Adam Carolla Show, the number one daily downloaded podcast in the world, five days a week, and completely uncensored. Join Adam as he shares his thoughts on current events, relationships, politics, and so much. Adam welcomes a wide range of special guests to join him in studio for in-depth interviews and a front-row seat to his freewheeling point of view. Download, subscribe, and tune in to The Adam Carolla Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.