210: Howie Mandel | A Conversation About Mental Health, Talent, and Perseverance

Transcript for Howie Mandel | A Conversation About Mental Health, Talent, and Perseverance (Episode 210)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:03] Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer Jason DeFillippo. Today, we've got a guest I'm especially excited about. I've been a fan of Howie Mandel even before I knew who Howie Mandel was. I grew up like many of you with Gremlins, Bobby's World, the Muppets. Howie does the voices for a lot of these and he's also extremely open, candid, funny, and caring and quirky. Don't forget quirky. He's one of the hardest working men in comedy – he has to be. Howie accidentally outed himself as OCD and a germaphobe on Howard Stern and instead of ruining his life and career, he became the voice of the disorder in many ways. He's used that as a lens with which to study human nature, forming the foundation of some of his comedy.

[00:00:46] This episode is so fun. It's so interesting. It's also so all over the place and it has quickly become one of my most favorite interviews I've done in the history of the show. I know that's a big statement, but we did this in Howie's office. We were there looking at all of his stuff. He collects a lot of showbiz stuff. He's got a really nice team. He's got a really nice office space. He's just a great dude. I've got a few fun notes and stories for after the show as well, but in the meantime, please enjoy this episode with one of the most prolific comedians of the day.

[00:01:15] If you want to know how we get this network going, where we book all these amazing people, it's always a warm intro. It's always an introduction through someone else, and these things are falling into our lap in air quotes. We work really hard for that. That's what I mean by that, but we'll teach you how to do that, how to surround yourself with the right people and create personal and professional connections that will make you the envy of the whole town and it's free. It's of course, we're teaching you Six-Minute Networking and you can find it at jordanharbinger.com/course. By the way, most of the guests on the show actually subscribe to the course and the newsletter, so come join us. All right, here's Howie Mandel.

[00:01:51] I have to get this part out of the way, so otherwise, I'll seem like an irresponsible host. The whole OCD thing.

Howie Mandel: [00:01:57] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:57] That has to get done. Otherwise, it looks like I didn't do my homework.

Howie Mandel: [00:02:01] Is that your question?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:02] It's not a question yet. It will become a question.

Howie Mandel: [00:02:05] Because when you said let's get it out of the way, that's what I try to do each and every day.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:08] Oh really.

Howie Mandel: [00:02:09] From the moment my eyes are open, it's let's get this OCD thing out of the way. Otherwise, I would seem like I'm really not taking care of myself.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:16] Are there other things you do in the morning to sort of mitigate that? Or is it just like--

Howie Mandel: [00:02:22] Besides taking my medication -- you know, there's no mitigating. I think that people know and I've been really open and I want to continue to be open because I'd like to be a small part of removing the stigma of mental health. And I don't think there's anybody alive or anybody listening to this that doesn't have a mental health issue. You may not have OCD. You may not be bipolar. You may not even be depressed. But I think good mental health promotes good physical health, good economic health because it'll make you can't be productive if you can't cope. And so all of us need a certain amount of coping skills and some of us need more than others. And I have found out through being surrounded by great family and great professionals that there are ways to ease and mitigate, you know, the struggles of life. But when you have OCD and I also suffer from anxiety and depression and all these other things, life is a constant battle, but it's a worthy battle. And for the most part, I win all these little smart battles and whether it's waking up and taking my medication or talking openly like I am right now, not just on a podcast but with a therapist or with my wife or with my kids -- whatever it takes -- or just a breathing exercise or whatever. There is a constant battle, but I think everybody has a cross to bear.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:03:53] Yeah, I think it's common, but you're right, the stigma is like, "Oh, I'm probably the only one with this problem. And everyone's going to think I'm weird. So I don't want to tell anyone."

Howie Mandel: [00:04:02] You know, in my book --I wrote in my book that was my -- I'm older than you and older than probably most people listening, but I'm in my mid-60s. So as being a child of the 50s, you know, mental, even the word mental had a stigma and negative. People thought I was odd. I had problems coping. I don't have a GED. I wasn't able to stay in school. I was reprimanded for what was considered behavioral problems, which in hindsight was a part of what it is that I have. But as I was saying, if somebody is going through a divorce in life or somebody losing their job, it makes it hard to go someplace and then function and be happy. And by that token, for that reason, maybe they need help.

[00:04:52] And maybe that help is just talking to a friend or just taking a couple of days off work so they can get their head together. Whatever it is, we all need a coping skill to be as productive and as happy as we can possibly be. And ultimately, I think we're all striving for and when you talk about making it -- I don't think it's money, I don't think it's notoriety -- I think that making it is being happy with what you're doing and what you're about to do and what you did. And I just strive my currency as happiness.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:05:29] It's funny you should mention making it because I had this all the way towards the end of the show and you said on Marc Maron, "Oh, I never really feel like I'm making it." And I listened to Conan O'Brien and Howard Stern say the exact same thing on Conan's podcast. It's shocking, but it also makes me feel a hell of a lot better because when I wake up on many days where I do and go, "Oh man, this, you know, it's hard to grow a show. Is it ever going to be anything more than a podcast? Or does that matter?" To hear you, Conan, Howard Stern also says, "Well, I never really feel like I really am doing it right.

Howie Mandel: [00:06:01] You know, these are external questions and external thoughts and when you get right inside your body -- when you think it's easier to think back, it's actually better for me to think back then to think forward. And the truth of the matter is whatever you consider making it or whatever you consider a goal, it's really -- I'll tell you as somebody who's in their 60s whatever you believe it's going to be and how it's going to make you feel, you don't know until you're there. And the truth of the matter is, as somebody who not only has OCD, but I have ADHD and I have a bunch of other problems that are not that I make them work for me, but they just so happens to be a side effect of one of the -- you know, I don't think of ramifications. So I'm very impulsive which was bad for behavior as a child but also taught me more. It gave me a different path in life. And I believe in their books, the power of now. And I believe that you've got to think about now. And if you think about -- I just feel like putting this foot out in front of me and I just want to lean this way because it's comfortable and you put that foot out and then you, you say, "You know, I want to put the other foot ahead and then I want to put the other foot ahead. You know what? I'm going to put this foot ahead." And then before you know it, you've walked forward. You just end up in a different place.

[00:07:27] And by the same token on a dare, I was there to get up on stage in the mid-70s during the standup comedy boom. And I went to see a comedy show and somebody said, "I bet you can do that. They were taking amateurs. Get up on stage." And I went up on stage, no aspiration to be a standup comic per se, to even be in show business to even be -- but I went on stage and whatever happened in that moment, sparked the light. Well, first of all, it was probably the most in the moment I've ever been out of terror and excitement. You know, my analogy for standup comedy is like I love thrill rides. I still do, even at my age. And the scarier it is and the higher it is, and the closer you think you're coming to killing yourself, the more thrilling it is. And the more you want to get on again and your adrenaline is running. By the same token, I didn't think, and I told you I don't think of ramifications. Somebody said, “Howie, you should get up?" And I volunteered and low and behold, somebody going, "Ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel," and then I walked out on stage at Yuk Yuk’s comedy club in Toronto at midnight. There are maybe 60 people standing there of which I don't know many of them. And there are people looking at me and just waiting. And then it struck me -- you know, it's funny, I said, okay. It was funny the guy introduced me. It's funny that there's a microphone in front of me and these people are staring at me and you know what's even funnier? I got nothing. And having that nothing and waiting for these strangers, the terror set in and if you watch old YouTube videos of me, you will see and that became my--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:07] Yeah, the beginning of the act.

Howie Mandel: [00:09:08] That was it. So I was trying to think of something because I had nothing and I was going, "Okay, okay, okay, okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Something's coming." And that's out of fear and not knowing what I was going to do. And people started giggling and then I'd go, "What, what, what, what?" And that became my act and out of having nothing to do. And because I'm OCD and I'm a germaphobe, I was carrying rubber gloves with me. I ended up pulling one over my head, which became my -- I'm the guy with the rubber glove on my head. It ended up buying me a house. I didn't know that this would be any. So then I finished and it was kind of fun. And as I'm walking off in a sweat in a cloud, the owner comes up to me, Mark Breslin says, "You want to come back tomorrow night?"

Howie Mandel: [00:09:47] And I went, "Oh yeah."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:48] Got to get some new gloves.

Howie Mandel: [00:09:49] Well, yeah. So I came back tomorrow night and then it was like every night. And for me, that was just a fun experience. Like I'm not into sports, I'm not into gambling. I didn't play cards. So now I found a group, a place where there were Narrative Wells who I could relate to, you know, all these weird people. Yes, they were there, and I could show up every night and I've got free drinks out of the soda fountain and they gave us a free gingerbread man. And I was standing there--

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:16] Wait gingerbread man, what is that?

Howie Mandel: [00:10:17] They were at Yuk Yuk’s. They used to serve. That was big on their menu. They had anatomically correct gingerbread man. You know, gingerbread man?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:25] Yeah but anatomically correct.

Howie Mandel: [00:10:27] Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:30] No, I'm reading between the lines now.  I don’t know --

Howie Mandel: [00:10:32] Look at the line. It's a penis. I got snacks and I got drinks and I got on the stage and acted like an idiot. And other people got on stage after me and acted like an idiot. And it was just this fun thing to do three, four times a week. Like you would go and play one on one with somebody or play cards with somebody. But that wasn't my job. And then when I came out here, and I say, here, I don't know where you're listening to this, but in LA, I came out on vacation to do some other work in state on Sunset Boulevard. I had met some comedians at Yuk Yuk’s, one of them being Mike Binder, who is a really accomplished now director and writer. But at the time he was doing standup and he got me a spot-on amateur night at the Comedy Store and there happened to be a producer in the audience who was George Foster, who had a comedy game show called Make Me Laugh. And he said, "You want to do TV?" And I thought, "I'm in Hollywood." And the first time I went to stage, a guy said, "You want to do TV?" "Yeah!" That's what I said. He said, "Show up at my office tomorrow." And it was the first time I was ever on a lot. And it was Katie LA here in Hollywood. And I went there and he had me try to make the secretary laugh and he said, "Great! Can you tape tomorrow? And I said, "Yes". And I had no idea what I was doing. And I tape five shows in one day and went back to Toronto and it was a great story. Tell about my vacation. And as they started airing, they didn't air in Canada. My life was changing. You got to think '78, '79 you're on TV. Merv Griffin Show saw me, the Mike Douglas Show saw me. I would fly back and forth to do -- and then around 1979 I said to my wife, who was not my wife yet, we were engaged -- I said, "This seems like a fun thing. I'm young. Let's take a shot." I stopped what I was doing and we both flew out here and I've been here ever since,

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:12:21] Since it was not airing in Canada didn't people think like, "Oh, he's exaggerating what's going on in the states," because they're not seeing it. And it's like, "Oh yeah, I'm going to be on this TV show and it's airing. And everyone's seeing."

Howie Mandel: [00:12:30] No, first of all, I wasn't a social butterfly and still am not, I didn't have a lot of friends and I wasn't really sharing. They were unbelievable, these calls to me. So it was just between me and my fiancee. When I said to the family, "I'm going to move out and try it." And they went, "Try what?" And I went, "Well, it just seems like I'm getting a lot of calls. I'm going to try it for a little while." But I remember I got the Merv Griffin Show, which was a big deal. It's a big nationally syndicated talk show -- which for anybody in show business -- these are the things you strive to do. I did the Merv Griffin Show And my friends from Toronto or people that knew me called me and said, "I saw you on TV." And I said, "Did you see me?" It was so exciting. It was just as exciting for me as it was for anybody else who was seeing me, but my in-laws, my wife, at the time my girlfriend's parents, didn't phone. And even two days later they didn't phone and it freaked me out. I go, "Did your parents not see it? My parents called. Did your parents not see it?" I mean, because it was a big deal, we left. We moved 3000 miles away from home. I took their daughter. I said, "This might be the path that we're going to choose. How can your parents not call when I'm at a nationally syndicated TV show?" So after three days, she calls her parents and she says to them – Terry is my wife -- says to her parents, "Did you not see Howie on TV on the Merv Griffin Show?" And they went, "Yeah, what happened?" And she went, "Well, what do you mean what happened?" "Well, you said he got a job and he was going to be on that show." And she says, "Yeah, did you see him?" "Yeah. What happened?" She goes, "What do you mean what happened?" "Well, we watched him and then we turned them on the next day. Was he fired?"

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:11] Oh because you weren't there the next day?

Howie Mandel: [00:14:12] They didn't understand. Right now, they're just starting to grasp what this business is. It's kind of old school. You get up in the morning early and you go to work and you spend all day at work. It's even now and I find it kind of funny like even in what I'm doing, you just said to me before we get on the air, "You must be really busy."

Howie Mandel: [00:14:31] Somebody said that to me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:32] There’s a whole lot of stuff going on. Who knew?

Howie Mandel: [00:14:34] But the truth of the matter is if you really think about what I'm doing, even though I'm on all these shows, it's not really like the average person goes to a full-time job. I'm not getting up at seven in the morning and going to an office at nine and working till six o'clock. I'll spend a couple of hours talking to you and then I might go to a club and work on it for a half-hour just to write some material. I will show up. We've done all the auditions for this season, Season 14 of AGT. So in August, the live shows come. It's live. So on Tuesdays and Wednesday nights I'll show up for an hour and sit there and watch the show and tell people what I think of their singing or dancing or whatever they're doing and that's my whole day. Or I'll do the voice for animals doing things, which is another show premiering this June on NatGeo Wild.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:28] When does it come out?

Howie Mandel: [00:15:28] Does anybody know what date it premiers? Somebody will tell us in just a minute. That's the beauty of -- you know what? I want to tell the listeners there's nobody else in the room. But if I go, "What date does it come out?" It seems like I have more people working with me. Will you ask Miriam to ask David to tell Lisa that I'm looking for a schedule for when Animals Doing Things airs.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:50] Saturday, June 8th.

Howie Mandel: [00:15:50] Saturday, June 8th.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:51] Said nobody in the back of the room because of the arguments made.

Howie Mandel: [00:15:55] People know I do voices. Animals Doing Things, that's on Nat Geo Wild. So I took some Instagram site that I loved, the animals doing things. I showed it to Nat Geo Wild. I put my voice on it and now it's a show. We're in season two and then on June 12th, the new season of Deal or No Deal premiers.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:12] That's what they said, "Can you air this on June 11th?" And we said, "Sure, that's fine." That's a random request.

Howie Mandel: [00:16:18] Tomorrow night.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:19] There you go.

Howie Mandel: [00:16:20] Tomorrow night, CNBC, an all-new season of Deal or No Deal for a million dollars, all the models, a new banker. It's a huge fee.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:29] Future Princess of Wales.

Howie Mandel: [00:16:32] The future Princess of Wales was-- She's now the Duchess of -- I don't know what she -- or maybe we have a future Princess of Wales, I don't know yet because it has an aired, but you have the ability to kind of before it airs tell me what position a model will be.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:49] It’s the beauty of the job.

Howie Mandel: [00:16:49] It is. So what I'm saying is I've already taped that. That's done. So then, it seems like I got a full schedule but I'm not going to work each and every day from nine to six. So I've done a full season of Deal or No Deal. I've done the full season of Animals Doing Thing. I have a special on-demand now, my first standup special in 20 years.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:10] I saw it. I enjoyed it.

Howie Mandel: [00:17:11] Thank you very much. And if you want to enjoy, don't tell people because America's Got Talent, Deal or No Deal, and Animals Doing Things are all family-friendly co-viewing kind of thing. I wouldn't let the kids stream the stand-up comedy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:27] I got it on iTunes. We'll link it in the show notes. But yeah, maybe this is the one thing with Howie that you don't have the kids in the room.

Howie Mandel: [00:17:35] Right. But then again, so I went out because the lovely people in Atlantic City at the Hard Rock Hotel opened the Howie Mandel room. They asked me to come to the opening. I went to the opening. I said, "Can I bring cameras?" I haven't been on camera as a standup comic for 20 years. So I taped that, but that's done. So all this stuff where you see me and even listening to me on this podcast, even as you're listening to this podcast now, I'm not doing this. This is not a lie. I am somewhere right now as I'm saying this. This is weird. I'm going to be listening to this too. I'm listening to this. I'm not doing this. I'm relaxing. You know why? Because I did this. This is not now. This was then. This is something I talked about. Do you mind if I take a moment and I know I'm a huge fan of this podcast and I'm glad that I'm on it, but I listened to it? I never miss an episode. Do you mind if I say hello to myself?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:28] Go ahead, do it.

Howie Mandel: [00:18:29] Hi, Howie! This is so weird because I'm listening to me on this show. Hi Howie. I wish I could call in because I have so many questions of myself.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:18:40] You can write it. You can write in for the next time.

Howie Mandel: [00:18:42] Really?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:43] Yeah. I'll save it.

Howie Mandel: [00:18:44] I had no idea. All right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:46] I'm available at friday@jordanharbinger.com. You can ask--

Howie Mandel: [00:18:50] Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:51] Friday, because those episodes air on Friday. I would love to reclaim my train of thought. I think that the beauty of doing something like this is we can edit it and make it look perfect, but I never do that.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:02] You never edit this?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:03] I edit it, but I don't make it look perfect. I like to leave in the little like Flavell and little flubs. Unless it sounds racist or something, then it's gone.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:13] Well, the f Flavell I think is a racist.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:15] It could be considered a slur in some context.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:20] Oh my God. I'll be honest with you and you can edit this out, but I can't stand the fucking Flavells because -- no, I'm being honest. They're not a nice group of people.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:29] Flavells.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:29] The Flavells. We have to keep the foibles out of this country. Does that sound racist?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:37] It does sound, yeah. It does sound racist.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:39] Do you know Flavells? Do any Flavells?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:41] I’m sure that I know something there, probably great people but I can't think of any offhand that I hang out with regularly.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:47] Well, if you know a Flavell and you have an argument to -- can they comment after?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:54] They can.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:54] To send it in?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:55] Sure.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:55] Okay thank you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:56] So there's going to be plenty of that.

Howie Mandel: [00:19:58] The Flavell uproar.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:00] I'm going to get a lot of one-star Flavell reviews.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:06] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Howie Mandel. We'll be right back.

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[00:22:32] Don't forget we have a worksheet for today's episode so you can make sure you solidify your understanding of the key takeaways from Howie Mandel. That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Subscribing to the show is absolutely free. It just means that you get all the latest episodes in your podcast player when they're released so you don't miss a single thing from the show. Now, back to our show with Howie Mandel.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:07] You revealed the OCD secret at the time on Stern. But you knew that he was recording right? It sounded like you went to a commercial break. So, you didn't even know.

Howie Mandel: [00:23:16] No, I didn't know that I was on the air. So what happened was we were doing, not unlike we're doing now where you're doing an interview and he says, "Thank you and we'll probably go to a commercial and thank you, Howie. This was great." And I got up and I started walking to the door and I thought he was like wrapping it up and going to commercial. And then I just said to somebody really quietly, "Can you grab the door?" And the guy goes, "No," and he goes, "What's wrong?" I go, "I don't want to touch the doorknob because I think it's probably dirty."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:52] The guy in there who was tying his penis and knots --

Howie Mandel: [00:23:55] Yes. That puppetry of the penis kind of guys.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:59] Are you surprised that I knew that.

Howie Mandel: [00:24:00] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:01] I looked it up. Okay. So there was a guy that at the time on the radio when he was on Terrestrial Radio, he'd have different three or four people in at the same time. And one of them was this guy who did weird things with his penis, which I still believe probably makes great radio. But the thing is that he was touching his penis and then there was no place to disinfect and he left before me and then he wrapped it up with me. And that's one of the things, I'm like an égalité like if I see that you touch something, then I want to follow the trail. If I see you touch something if I see you like even wipe your nose or something. And then I'm looking at that finger, that I want to see the finger and the finger touched the water, the water touched and then you put your hands on the side of the chair. You have no idea. I'm always multitasking. I'm not only answering this question; I'm keeping track of every one of your fingers and digits and where you've put them and then where they go after they've been put. And then I will go after you leave. I have Lysol and some fabric and I clean up after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:07] You do it or it’s like someone else has to do it?

Howie Mandel: [00:25:10] I have my own Flavell.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:13] You have your own Flavell. Flavell that comes by.

Howie Mandel: [00:25:15] That's what they're good for. So anyway, I tracked the guy's hand to the knob and I didn't want to touch the knob and I was saying to -- I can't remember. I was saying it to Jackie or whoever was there. "Get the door. Open the door." And he's going, “What are you afraid of the door?" From behind his mic, he goes, "Are you afraid of the door?" I go, "I just don't like germs. Can somebody grab it?" I was wearing short sleeves so I couldn't pull down my sleeve or anything. I went to grab a Kleenex; they grabbed the Kleenex box for me. They didn't know how serious it was. And then he goes, "Just open the door," and I go, "I can't open the door." He goes, "Just open the door." And then what happened is I started getting a panic attack and I started breathing heavy and my heart was pounding. And then I just turned to him and thinking that he had already thrown the commercial because he was just talking to me. "Howard, please, this is really serious. I go to therapy for this. I have something called obsessive-compulsive disorder. I'm about to pass out. If you don't open the door for me now, you'll be calling 911 and taking me to the hospital." So they opened the door and as the door closed behind me, I can hear them continue to talk about, "Can you believe it? He couldn't open the door." And I go, "Oh my God, this whole thing was on the radio." I thought we went to commercial and then he was talking to me and it was on national radio and I thought, "Oh my God," I have just been outed as in those terms at that time, a mental case, which was not positive. And more importantly, I thought it was really embarrassing for me to let that out because I have three children who were in school and a wife. They have nothing to do with this business and they're going to be ridiculed because I came out as a mental case, number one.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:54] You felt that you failed your family or embarrassed them?

Howie Mandel: [00:26:57] So I've embarrassed the family number one. And number two, I've also kind of let it be known that anytime you go into production, you're going to go do anything in television or film. There's a lot of money and insurance and you have to go get a checkup. And who's going to want to put millions of dollars of insurance behind somebody who could snap at any moment. So that's the end of my career. It's the end of my family's happiness. And I remember walking down the hallway and down the elevator. That was probably the darkest space I've ever been to and I'm walking through the lobby toward the door out into these teeming streets of Manhattan. I just didn't know what to do and I could see the traffic going by in front of me and I thought I might as well just continue walking and walk right into traffic. And I stopped just outside the door and millions of people were on the street, but I felt very alone. Some guy came into my periphery and said to me, "Are you Howie Mandel?" And I barely said yes, but I just nodded affirmatively and he said, "I just heard you on Stern." And my heart dropped into my stomach and I said, "This is the beginning of the end." I'm just about to take off. And right before I could take off in the traffic, he said two words, which means something very different today. But they changed my life and he went, "Me too." And I went, "What?" And he goes, "Me too. I suffer from anxiety and depression. That was so great hearing that I'm not alone." And I go, "You too."

[00:28:25] And at that time there was no email or texting or social media. So I started getting letters and it was amazing how many people and how comforting and then how I realized how important it is, not just for me, for anybody that has any issue, any issue, just to talk. I think there's a reason why what we're doing right now as an industry, there's a reason why there is a need for podcasts. There is a need for us to not only be entertained and informed but to have a connection, to find something relatable, to find something interesting, to find maybe an idea for a passion that you don't know you have right now. But if we don't communicate even with ourselves and we're not open and we just close off, that's the barriers that we put up in our lives. And that's the barriers we put up in making it. And what I learned about and I'm coming full circle to the beginning of this conversation -- if you asked me when did you know you made it, you never know you made it. You never feel like you made it. And if you feel like you made it to me, that kind of takes like the end, you know? So then there's no more of this. When you get to the top of the mountain, the only way out is down. So if I think back, the moment I made, it was the moment somebody said, "Ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel," and I walked on that stage with absolutely nothing but that was the most exhilarating, fun, scariest, weirdest in the moment place I have ever been in my life.

[00:30:04] And anytime I can get on stage, and any time I could talk, and any time I'm in front of an audience, I'm just trying to recapture that. And there is no time, no amount of money, there is no amount of recognition that means anything. Do you know what I mean? We're all heading to that exact same spot. I mean, we'll pick our own plots, but we're all heading the same place. So if somebody has a couple of bucks more, it's not going to make a difference when you're in the ground. No matter how famous you believe you are or how many people know you are, how many people are downloading this podcast, it will mean nothing in three decades. I have grandkids now. My grandkids at this point have no concept of what the Beatles are. So what does that mean? Did they chase that notoriety and that kind of fame and that kind of exposure for, for what? So if you're looking to be famous or you're looking to have a lot of money that's kind of insular. I think you've got to look for something that when you open your eyes that you know, that battle that you talked about, whether it's getting over my OCD, something that you're just excited about that day and something you're excited about doing and somebody you're excited about seeing, something you want to talk about, something you want to -- I just think that the problem in this world today is that we don't, we kind of have everybody's else's image of what making it and being successful is and not their own. I think we're all on the equal playing field.

[00:31:36] You know, I did an interview for CNBC and people go, "I want to be like famous and as successful as Elon Musk." But the truth of the matter is the only difference that I see -- I've said this in other interviews -- the only difference between Elon Musk and anybody listening to this, including myself because I know I'm listening to this -- I'm a huge fan of mine. The only difference is he's doing it and you're not. That's the only difference. If you really, really, really were passionate about doing something specifically amazing. You would go into your garage and say, "How can I figure out a way that people can pay for whatever they shop for online," and you come up with PayPal. Or you could be in, you're in your room designing the next rocket ship if you wanted to but most people don't want to.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:34] They want the accouterments of doing whatever it is. They want to be well known. Like a lot of people want to be famous comedians but not many people want to go up on stage with a rubber glove or no idea, no plan, embarrass themselves right in front right stuff and then have people not laugh at it.

Howie Mandel: [00:32:49] You know, but you read these inspirational t-shirts and things that the journey, but it is the journey because the journey is really short and you have to enjoy every step of the way and whatever you think you're achieving, it's not going to make any difference. The only thing that you could try to --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:03] Put that on a t-shirt. Whatever you think you're achieving is not going to make any difference. And then a rainbow, I think.

Howie Mandel: [00:33:09] I love that. We should work for Hallmark, but it doesn't make a difference. It's only to you whatever you think is important. Whatever your image of being well known as or being successful is never like it is. It's a dream. The only reality, the only thing that exists is this second. I don't know what's going to happen a minute from now. Nobody knows. And it's only a memory of what happened a minute ago. So the only thing that's real is right now. So if you set goals for yourself or you have plans -- what you're really saying and this is a glass being half empty -- is you're not there. These are all the things that I want that I don't have. And you shouldn't spend a moment thinking about what you don't have and what you want. You got to think about how do I make this moment, this second, the most fun, the most interesting and the most exciting because that's all you have. And that's all I do every minute of the day. And I fight for that. I don't, I don't achieve that, but that's what I fight to do. I always believe that we all think too much. I try not to think.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:20] You mean like getting in our head and just --

Howie Mandel: [00:34:22] Always, always, you know I think impulse in humanity – the strongest character that we have is that is our impulse. And how many times have you done this or you thought you were going to do something and then thought about it and, "Oh maybe I shouldn't do this and this could happen, this couldn't happen." And then you go back and you go, "Should have, could have, would have? I knew I should've done that." If we go with our instinct and we do what we want to do and we do -- not what we think we should be doing, as long as you're not hurting anybody, I think we would all be ahead and happier in this world.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:34:56] Yeah, there's definitely something to that and I think it is easy to look at 20-20 hindsight and go, "Oh, I should've done this or, or maybe this would've gone smoother." And I know from your own journey, just from the book, which by the way is called -- it's called Here's the Deal: Don't Touch Me and we'll link to that in the show notes. Great title. You mentioned that you think you might've become a performer because you wanted attention from your mom. Do you still feel like that's the --?

Howie Mandel: [00:35:20] Well, you know, and then again I'm not a professional, but you analyze this seems like in hindsight, looking back, this is such a weird path.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:30] Your path.

Howie Mandel: [0035:31] Yeah. But I think everybody has a weird path. I'm sitting here with you who started to do a podcast. You told me 13 years ago --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:38] 13 years ago, yeah.

Howie Mandel: [00:35:39] So 13 years ago, I defy you to ask anybody what a podcast was and find like one out of 10 people may have heard of it. I wouldn't have 13 years ago. I know for myself, but so what makes somebody do -- it's the same thing, the same answer for me as it is for you or anybody that is doing something where they didn't just go to school, graduate, and get a job working for somebody. And I've talked about these many times, the connotation of what our normal life is, the normal life is -- if you listen to radio where you said you started -- you know, Wednesday was considered hump day.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:16] Yeah.

Howie Mandel: [00:36:17] What is hump day? Hump day is the connotation of getting halfway through. You're almost over the hump of this shit that you have to do all week. To what? To get to the weekend just so you don't have to do it. Not even to do something you want, just so you don't have to do that. So our normal path in life -- and when I say normal, I mean the most common path in life is you go to school, you learn some shit that you're really not interested in. You go get a job and you pay your rent, but are you happy? No, you got humpday -- not really. So all of these people, including yourself, who are doing something they want, something they created some way of doing it.

[00:36:57] Sometimes you look back and you go, "How did I get here? And what is it that made me come here?" And maybe it was the need to what you just said -- you know, I was an only child until my brother was born, three years later. And I remember at that time, losing five percent of the attention. Well, I still had 95 percent. With three years shift, I was walking and talking. He was a meatball that came home and didn't have to do it. They have to put them to bed, swaddle them and clean them up. So whatever that took away from me is really still kind of emblazoned in my mind. So maybe it was just about getting attention, good, bad and ugly. Just I needed attention.

[00:37:42] So I don't know, I'm being self-analytical. I don't think it's really good to analyze. But I do and just when I have that spare time and I do have a lot of spare time, even though I'm doing a lot. These are the kinds of things I think what made me move 3000 miles away from anybody I've ever met, known into a bit with nobody. I'm out here in the middle of nowhere.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:04] Yeah. Did you feel like your life wasn't working when you moved? I mean, you did have your girlfriend or fiancee at the time, but you mentioned you didn't have that many friends. Did you feel like you weren't really uprooting too much since she was coming with you?

Howie Mandel: [00:38:16] No thought. In fact, the fact that I was going to go and she was going to come with me was an added pressure and I want her to come with me because I didn't want to be by myself. But at the same time, I felt a huge responsibility that I'm taking another human being on this wacky ride. But she was more gung-ho than I was. There were many times where I was going to and almost did -- and we could talk about that a little later -- quit and said, "I'm going home. This is just too hard. It's just not, it's not making me happy." There's a lot of rejection. There's a lot of public humiliation. There's a lot of, and I go, "Why am I subjecting myself to this?" And there were many times where she said to me, "Howie, I admit that this moment and these things you're hearing and this thing you watched and this particular project is devastating. But think about when it does work, these --“ and I do get those moments to "-- those highs. Do you really want to walk away from that?" It gave me a second thought and my highs are even now like -- regardless of all the shows I do and wherever you can see me -- I'll drop in on a comedy club that has 11 people sitting there at two in the morning. And if I could find something that makes them laugh, there's no better warm blanket to be bundled in than that than 11 strangers laughing at something I just concocted.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:39:43] People must be stoked to see you at two o'clock in the morning. I'm like, a Thursday, and they're just thinking, "All right, well the night is pretty much over," and then suddenly you show up. And I mean that --

Howie Mandel: [00:39:51] Sometimes. But then after that, I like to -- because I want to know, If I'm dropping in the club, I really want to -- you know, my biggest inspiration, and I've talked about this before in what I do in comedy and in life was Richard Pryor. And when I came out of here in the ‘70s, Richard Pryor was out here and he would show up at the Comedy Store each and every night putting together his act for Live on the Sunset Strip, which I believe is one of the seminal standup comedy concerts ever. And I watched him. It was the first time I was cognizant of somebody walking on stage with the tools of comedy without it fully being built, constructed. It was kind of like the Ikea of comedy. He had ideas, he had notes, he was crossing lines that had never been crossed before as far as maybe drug use relationships, his upbringing. And it was scary and real. And he would try and I thought, "Oh my gosh, that's a great -- where else?" You know, now it's a different world because people are so politically correct, but it just was a safe haven to find that line, cross the line.

[00:41:04] And so I love showing up. I'll do a concert someplace in town and if I'm not tired and in the middle of Oklahoma I'll say, "Is there a comedy club nearby?" After the show, I'll go to the show and hopefully it's like the way at the end of the night, there are only 11 people left in the room. They're not sitting together. Three of them are drunk and inebriated. They’re not even sure they heard my name right. They might be excited for a second, but I would let that ease that excitement of seeing me. And then, maybe start with a conversation just so that I can take a hunk that I haven't tried in front of people and see after the excitement of maybe seeing somebody they didn't expect goes away. Can I make you laugh at this in the middle of nowhere, out of nowhere, no context, nothing? And there's something really heartwarming about finding words and thoughts where a complete stranger -- there's no better comfort in knowing that somebody relates to -- you know, even if it's in a sense of humor. They know what I'm talking about. It's like when you're with your wife or you find another person or a good friend that we're just on the same wavelength, we can do that. And that's the rhythm that you try to get into with an audience. And there's nothing more freeing and naked feeling than humor because humor, you know, I've talked about this before also, where you go to an amateur night, you see people get up and you go, "It’s absolutely terrible. How the hell does he or she even think that they have a possibility of making this?" And there's nothing more painful than watching somebody just die onstage. But truth be told, if you think about it, nobody's there out of their own fruition. So somebody told them, "Hey, you should go to the comedy club, you should try this." And then you find out that even when you start spieling whatever it was, that Uncle Nathan at the Thanksgiving dinner table was laughing at is only shared by Uncle Nathan. You realized, "Oh my God, this isn't what I thought."

[00:42:01] And by the same token, I've also told this story about when I got to play at Radio City Music Hall and I sold out two shows in one night. So that's 7,000 seats, about 7,000 people. And in between shows, I'm looking out onto 7th Avenue from my dressing room with my wife, and 7,000 people are walking out of the first show and 7,000 people are walking in. So right on the corner of 7th Avenue, 14,000 people are blocking traffic. The cops have their stanchions up and my wife goes, "This is all for you. How come you don't look really excited?" I'll tell you where my mind went. My mind went that I mean New York City, there are 10 million people here. So 14,000 people out on the street -- that means that 9,986,000 people don't give a shit and don't want to see me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:46] Or couldn't get tickets.

Howie Mandel: [00:43:50] I love you with the glass -- not only it's overflowing, it's not half full. But the point that I'm making is if you can get a room where 11 people or 12 people to kind of come along on your ride with you, there's nothing better. You think this is funny too. You think that you know that that's basically what I'm saying. I'm going to say something outrageous. Six people laugh. I go, "Oh my God, then that must be funny." And it's after the wave of excitement of seeing a surprise and after that. And that's what I liked to try. And the harder it is and the harder the room is, the more I kind of luxuriate in that awkwardness.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:29] Sure. Yeah, of course. Well, it's more of a challenge in a way.

Howie Mandel: [00:44:33] And I need to be challenged. I understood that having gotten into this business, why people who are in the music business sometimes shy away from playing. I went to the concert; he didn't play any of his hits. You kind of get the fact that there's no challenge. They should. And that's what I love about the Rolling Stones and they always give the audience what they're there to see. But as somebody who does stand-up comedy and did up to 300 live dates a year up until the last six years -- now I do about a hundred because I'm doing a lot more television –

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:06] Still that’s a lot.

Howie Mandel: [00:45:09] Well, the reason you're here talking to me in Van Nuys because I'm right next to the airport and I'll go out four times a week. I take off and go on the road.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:19] You mentioned pre-show, that was the secret to staying married for 40 years being gone a lot.

Howie Mandel: [00:45:25] Well I've been married for 40 years. My wife will tell you. They'll say what's the secret? She'll say he's not here, and I feel like the luckiest guy in the world. I'm lucky to have her and she's made every positive decision I've ever had in my career and in my life and given me children who've given me grandchildren and everything there. But she'll tell you what she loves about me most is that I'm not here. So apparently if you're enjoying this podcast, if you turn the channel or go to something else, you'll love me even more because if you can't hear me and you're not around me, you'll love me. You’ll love up to 40 years. If you're enjoying me, but you want to enjoy me more, I would turn this off right now. I would. I mean, it's not even me. It's my wife. My wife is probably not listening to this. You know why? Because she loves me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:15] Right, she loves you. She wants to keep things working.

Howie Mandel: [00:46:18] Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:21] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Howie Mandel. We'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:26] This episode is sponsored in part by Luminary.

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[00:49:22] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us on the air and to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. And don't forget the worksheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at Jordanharbinger.com/podcast. And if you're listening to the show on the Overcast player, please click that little star next to the episode. We really appreciate it. And now for the conclusion of our episode with Howie Mandel.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:49:51] You did mention the Richard Pryor act, I think it was either an interview or possibly also in the book and he said at the end of the act, he kind of like, he didn't end on a big laugh. He did some social commentary about how -- well there was

Howie Mandel: [00:50:02] Well there was one bit in particular, and I know which bit you're talking about in the -- this is where I knew he would experiment. He was experimenting with like a conductor with an orchestra and the audience is an orchestra. What emotions can you control? How do you control this audience? I want laughter now, laughter now, laughter now. And then how can I take you on this emotional roller coaster? And one night he came in -- and I'm not going to do this any justice, but I'll never forget it because it left a mark in how I believe that somebody should act on stage or what we got to go for. He set a bar which I will never be able to achieve, but he walked in one night and the audience was roaring. He came up and he goes, "You know, I'm God." He said he was God and he was just stopping by because it's a 10 o'clock and he's got to pick his son up. So he's looking for his son. And they were kind of laughing -- I'm not obviously not doing it justice, but he was really funny and really lovable. And he was acting like God and he goes, "I'm here to pick up my son." And then he comes to a realization, "You know, my son? He doesn’t wear pants. He wore a robe. He's got a thing; he’s name is Jesus. Has anybody seen him?" And then he mimed like, “Where is Jesus? What the fuck did you guys do to Jesus? What'd you do to my son? What did you do to my son?" And he starts screaming, "The fuck did you do to my son?" And then it gets kind of serious. We're all waiting for the punchline. He goes, "Okay, okay, okay, okay, bring me -- " and I can't remember because it's years and years ago, but he went through a whole litany of people. "All right, I want to talk to Martin Luther King right now. Bring me, Martin Luther King, right now. Where is he? What the fuck did you do with Martin Luther King?" And then he did the same thing with Kennedy. "Where's Kennedy? What did you do?" And it was just silent in the room. And then he turned and looked at everybody with a tear coming down his eye. And he goes, after he said, we killed his son, we killed Martin Luther King, we killed some apostles, we killed Kennedy. And he just looked over the silence and he went, "You're on your own." And he walked out of the room and God left the room. And that was such a moving, powerful, brave, historical moment. Never to be repeated. It wasn't in his special, and I certainly didn't do it any justice right now on this podcast. It was just like I thought there was no end to his bravery and freedom that he takes as soon as there's a mic in front of him.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:36] What did that do for your comedy? Like did you, because you started off a little -- what's the term? Is it absurdist where you're pulling the glove over your head or like doing, I don't know that I don't have a technical --

Howie Mandel: [00:52:47] I don’t have a technical word for what I did. It was a guy who really didn't have -- I was discovering my act on stage. I had 80 percent personality, 20 percent material. That's what it really was. And the truth of the matter is -- and that's how I learned. But I also learned from a bit like that, that it doesn't necessarily have to get a laugh to be interesting, to be entertaining, to be informative, and I was so scared that any moment that was part of the energy of the what, what and okay, that any moment was not going to go over well. And he taught me, and I'm still not, but he taught me -- he seemed fearless and whatever we do in life, fear is not a great emotion. It really isn't. Anything you do out of fear will never turn out -- you need to be fearless. You need to -- if you're going -- and I say this, the people that are on America's Got Talent, if you really want to do well, just own it and have no fear that we won't like it, the audience won't like it. It's not funny. It's not just -- he seemed to go all-in on whatever he was doing and even if it was an epic, dramatic religious statement, he was all-in and perform that in the same way and with the same gusto that Gallagher would smash a watermelon, you know?

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:54:23] Yeah, I, I do. I do understand that. Do you think it's easier for somebody who -- here's the counter-argument that somebody is going to have who's listening or watching? They're going to go, "Well, fine, Richard Pryor can do that because if everyone's like, 'What the hell was that?' He's still Richard Pryor. So it's harder for me being on America's Got Talent tomorrow night or something to go out there and try something brave because I have everything to lose."

Howie Mandel: [00:54:44] Do you? What do you have?

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:54:46] I don't know. Me personally, I don't know. I wouldn't have the guts, I don't think --

Howie Mandel: [00:54:50] But that’s all I say -- you just said it. It's guts. So as soon as we all realize that everybody, you, Richard Pryor, anybody listening, me, we're all on an even playing field in, in that game of humanity. So you know the fear and the weight of any particular moment you're putting on yourself. Nobody is putting it on you. Nobody expects me when they go, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel to be the next Richard Pryor. If I'm trying to be the next Richard Pryor, then that's, that's on me. It's really not -- nobody expects it to be. And what I learned was nobody was more surprised than me at getting a career. And I say that even now, as I listen to what I'm saying, there's nobody more blessed, more excited, more thrilled, and more baffled by the fact that still, even today in my 60s that somebody wants me to show up and talk. All this pressure and all these arguments and everything you just said to me is self-inflicted. And that's the problem with our world. Don't inflict anything. Just be numb. You got to be numb. You got to be numb in your own little world to achieve happiness. Because even if you're doing something -- "I want to be a painter." Well, if you start painting and you think, "Ah, this is going to be, people are going to laugh at this. Oh, this is not good. This looks nothing like the Mona Lisa. I'm so not, you know --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:24] You don't have the talent.

Howie Mandel: [00:56:26] I don’t have the talent. But then if you're thinking that, then you're not going to enjoy it. If you could just lose yourself in it and just paint and have a good time in the process, that's all it's there for. 90 percent of the big artists from decades and decades ago didn't even make it in term making until after they were dead or somebody found their stuff. So what they found was they found the remnants of somebody's passion, which wasn't even accepted at the moment. So they have to go through a whole life of misery for you to figure out two decades later that this is really good. So don't worry about anybody else. My biggest audience and the audience that I have to cater to is me. And it gets harder and harder because now with the advent of social media, I can tell you how man and I need social media because that promotes, that's how -- maybe there are two listeners right now on this podcast that are listening only because I tweeted about it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:27] Oh, I appreciate. I appreciate that feature, Howie. It’s so nice of you.

Howie Mandel: [00:57:33] But the point is by the same token, I'm also seeing comments that aren't that favorable sometimes, a lot of times.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:57:41] Oh, so you check it yourself.

Howie Mandel: [00:57:43] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:44] Wow. Man, I think a lot of people don't because they can't actually take what they see on those feeds.

Howie Mandel: [00:57:52] I think most people do see what they see themselves and say that -- well, maybe I’m a social media person, but everybody sees the shit that is written about them. I think it's probably pretty popular to say I don't see it if I don't see the good ones. I don't see the bad ones, but dismissive. But the truth is it is hurtful. It is there. When you're in this business, people act differently than they would ever act. You know when I shaved my head, somebody shows up in an elevator, they go, "You're Howie Mandel." And I go, "Yeah." They go, "Why do you shave your head? I liked your curly hair." Like who says that they're a stranger? I can't even say to my wife, "I don't like those pants on you." How can you say to a stranger that you don't like my hair?

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:58:31] Because they know you, right? They think they know you know each other.

Howie Mandel: [00:58:33] "You know, you look skinny in person." Was that a positive? Do I look fat on TV? Do I not look good here? But because I'm on TV or because I'm in there, they're so comfortable. People are comfortable to kind of share. That's why you can't be concerned about what other people think. You have to be concerned and this is what I learned from therapy. My happiness and how I'm able to cope is predicated on how I act. I'm the boss of me.

Jordan Harbinger:  [00:59:02] It's powerful, but okay --

Howie Mandel: [00:59:04] It's hard to practice.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:59:08] I figured that was the next, the next thing to come out because I thought, okay, that's brilliant and I love that. But then I think back to like when you're opening for Earth, Wind & Fire, which by the way, comedy opening for a music group has disaster written all over it generally.

Howie Mandel: [00:59:20] Generally, that was my job.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:59:22] That was your bread and butter was opening --

Howie Mandel: [00:59:24] To be hated and humiliated in front of thousands. And in my hometown, you talked about Earth, Wind & Fire. Earth, Wind & Fire played in Toronto the week after -- I'm trying to remember who it was, but in Chicago people got trampled because the doors open late. I think it was for the Who concert and people died. And the next week, Earth, Wind & Fire, which was having their biggest tour ever was from the Pyramid album, their biggest hits ever. We're playing Toronto and a big part of it was pyrotechnics and special effects and they weren't getting it done in time. I remember it was -- do you know who Doug Henning was? Doug Henning was a very big magician. He was like the David Copperfield of that time.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:06] Okay I had heard that name.

Howie Mandel: [01:00:07] Yeah. And he's Canadian. And he was doing, he did all the magic in the pyro for Earth, Wind & Fire for their stage show. And they weren't going to have it set in time and they have to hold the doors closed. Because people got trampled by holding doors close for the Who Concert in Chicago. The promoter called me and said, "We're going to open the doors, we're going to close the lights in the room and they're going to do the last-minute changes on the stage and building while you're performing just under a spotlight." But what happened is I went out there in front of 20,000 people. It was 1980 I think it was or '79 or '81. I can't remember exactly when it was. It's my hometown. It was Maple Leaf Gardens. The home of the maple leaves. Well, the arena where hockey --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:48] The hockey, yeah, arena – I’m from Detroit I should know stadium versus arena.

Howie Mandel: [01:00:54] Well, maybe hockey is bigger in Detroit.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:55] It is, yeah.

Howie Mandel: [01:00:56] Redwings. So, the point was that it wasn't going good. I started swearing and I didn't know they pulled the plug on the mic and all the sound went off in the room. They started chanting, "Earth, Wind & Fire, Earth, Wind & Fire." Somebody signaled me from the side of the stage to come over. I walked over. They said, "Come here for a second." And then they locked me in a room and I heard an announcement -- over my hometown, 20,000, the biggest arena – saying, "Due to the content, the ill-thought-out content of the opening act, Earth, Wind & Fire is delaying their concert to half an hour." Giant boos, like such hatred, such humiliation, you know, and that was --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:34] So they just blamed you for that -- did they just need more time?

Howie Mandel: [01:01:38] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:39] And they were just like, "Oh, well, we're going to throw Howie under the bus."

Howie Mandel: [01:01:41] Yeah. I was under the bus -- under a bus probably would have been more comfortable than I felt. If somebody said, "You want to stay locked in this room and hear the humiliation or do rather just be under a bus?" I think under a bus.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:54] Yeah.

Howie Mandel: [01:01:54] And by the same token, there's a picture right here, which you can't see, but right there it's me and Diana Ross. Did you see that?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:01] I haven't seen it but I'm --

Howie Mandel: [01:02:04] Can somebody bring that? Look at that picture. I just went to her 75th birthday.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:09] That's incredible.

Howie Mandel: [01:02:13] So I talked about doing the -- she wrote me a note. She said, "I'll never forget the time." This was a couple of weeks ago. She just had her 75th birthday.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:17] Oh, wow.

Howie Mandel: [01:02:17] Is that cool? I don't know where --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:19] She looks really good for 75.

Howie Mandel: [01:02:20] Doesn't she?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:22] That's amazing. I saw that photo. It didn't even occur to me that that was Diana Ross.

Howie Mandel: [01:02:27] This was two weeks ago.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:28] It's incredible.

Howie Mandel: [01:02:29] Yeah. So this was two weeks ago and she wrote me a little letter. I'll never forget the time we work together. So at the time when I was getting called back and forth from Toronto, I did Merv Griffin and her boyfriend at the time. Do you know who she lived with?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:44] Gene Simmons, I think. Yeah.

Howie Mandel: [01:02:46] Yeah. Gene Simmons of Kiss phoned me and said, "Would you like to open up for my girlfriend?" So I said, "Okay," and I was her opening act. The audience hated me every night, but she loved me and she thought it was funny and continued to hire me and use me. But every night, I go out in front of them, the lights would go down, and I’ll go, "Ladies and gentlemen, an evening at Diana Ross." And the crowd would go crazy and they'd go -- and if you listen really closely, you can hear it, " And now, her opening act Howie Mandel." And I would walk out there and just to hatred and they couldn't wait. Nobody was there to see me, to see comedy, to see anything.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:03:21] Right, they wanted the music of Diana Ross. Okay, speaking of did you ever think of quitting, did that kind of thing ever make you think, "Screw this. They don't even want me here. I mean, maybe I kind of need the money of the opening act, or maybe I like the attention," but at some point, wherein you’re just like, "This is BS. Everyone's calling -- I'm opening for people and nobody wants to see me." That would drive me crazy.

Howie Mandel: [01:03:42] It did. So this was in Las Vegas, at Caesars Palace. I would lock myself in my room for fear of making eye contact with anybody downstairs in the casino or the restaurants that were at the show the night before and I did want to quit. As luck would have it, number one, my wife was always there with me going, "Listen, they didn't know. They didn't come to see you. That was hysterical." So she would buoy me up as far as feeling better about what I had done, but I wasn't being accepted. And then I would always get right when I thought, "This is terrible." Then I'd get a call and they'd say -- the next call was "Alan Thicke is coming to town to do Thicke of the Night." And he signed me to a contract. I was on the Thicke of the Night when Alan Thicke came to town because I had done his show in Canada. So there was always something just as I was getting pulled out to sea and like just going to drown, somebody else would catch me and then it'd be something else. There was always something attached.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:04:45] You're talking about kind of resilience and also getting maybe a little bit lucky with getting the gigs, but also a lot of this is resilience are grit or maybe just not knowing when to quit. And I wonder if you see some of that unstoppable spirit with the contestants on America's Got Talent.

Howie Mandel: [01:05:03] That's what I'll tell the contestants on America's Got Talent. I believe everybody in life is doing what they need to do. Not what they want to do, what they need to do. When it becomes too much rejection, too scary, too much, that's the level we rise to. If you want to go get a job and you want -- and there's nothing wrong with this. I think it's equal. There's no difference to anybody in life. Nobody is better than anybody else. Nobody is more important than anybody else. We find out it's a level, we come off of a level playing field and we end up being buried in a level playing field. There is no difference but the point is that -- it's not even persistence. It's just the wherewithal to just go on. Maybe somebody rejected once and quits. Somebody rejected a hundred times and never quits. The fact that I'm still doing it, I'm just doing it because I say, "Okay." You know I use the Nike a saying all the time, "Just do it." 90 percent of making it -- somebody smarter than me -- said was just showing up.

[01:06:11] Here we are, Season 14 of America's Got Talent. You'd think you've got all the talent. No! People keep showing up. They overthink it. They don't show up. "I'm not right for this show." Let other people decide and if you could just show up and keep doing it and keep pursuing it-- the people that get further in the same field that you're in are just the people that didn't stop. The reason you're not further, you stop. You're in control of absolutely everything.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:40] That's empowering in a lot of ways. But knowing that and I keep saying it, I don't have that kind of power personally. These are the philosophies that drive me each and every day. That I can get through this, that I can win this battle. That when I'm dealing with OCD, I need to take my medication, I need to call the therapist right now because I can't even function and get through that. I need to show up one more day and get through that and there are bad days even in the best-case scenario. You can go to a party and have the worst time you've ever had or something shitty can happen at the party. That doesn't mean you shouldn't show up. You need to constantly show up. And that's what I'll do. As long as I'm healthy and able to show up, if you asked me to show up someplace, I always say "Yes". I will always say "Yes" because I don't know what it brings. I know what "No" brings. "No" brings nothing, nothing.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:07:33] You say you don't always have the power, but you do seem unstoppable. In the book, you talk about getting essentially -- I guess you got the flu or something and you had to go on The Tonight Show and you were just like, "I'm doing it. I'm going to Joan Rivers anyway."

Howie Mandel: [01:07:46] Right. So Joan Rivers is a big part of my career because when I was starting out doing The Johnny Carson Show was the biggest litmus test for making it and I got turned down for Johnny Carson multiple times. I was told by the booker that I was not right for the show. Johnny would hate me. That's the way he told me. He said, "Not only did this audition not go well--" they came and saw me at The Comedy Store. They came and saw me at the Improv, "--but are not the cup of tea that we look for on The Tonight Show." As it happened, you know, at that time, and this is decades and decades ago, Joan Rivers became the fill-in guest host and her ratings were as big, if not bigger than Johnny. That was at the top of her game. And she used to come into The Comedy Store to work out her monologues. So I heard she was coming in and I said, "I got nothing to lose. Let her see me." I've been told, "Let her see me," because she pulls weight, she's big. I just want her to see me because I had a booking person coming in and telling me Johnny would hate me. You know these people that cast and, and look and give you jobs are really just employees and they're second-guessing their boss. People give you notes on things, so second-guessing their boss. It may not be the way. So I said, "If I could just get on stage in front of Joan, maybe she'll like me. And if nothing else, another person who has some power in this business saw me." And that was my thought. Mitzi Shore who ran The Comedy Store was nice enough to book a spot for me right before Joan was going to come on and do her monologue and work on her monologue.

[01:09:35] And that day, I woke up with a fever and with the flu. And if you've ever had the flu or the fever -- there wasn't an inch of me that didn't hurt. I had aching all over my body and I had chills all over my body. I was so sick. And I go, "What are the chances on this one day that I'm going to play in front of Joan?" And I just said, "Listen, if it kills me, I got the flu. It's not a terrible thing. I'm going to get in the car. I'm going to try to do a set." They don't want me anyhow at The Tonight Show. So it can't be any worse than that. So I made my way to The Comedy Store and Joan Rivers comes in and I don't feel good. And right before Joan Rivers is going to go on, they introduced, "Ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel." I get on and I guess the adrenaline took over and I didn't feel sick and I crushed it, and that audience was roaring. I got off stage and as I was going on, they go, "Now, ladies and gentlemen, the special guest Joan Rivers," and she passes me. And as she passes me, she goes, "That was very funny." And like that lifted me into the clouds. So she goes out and does her set and I said, "I'm going to wait for her to come off," because maybe we'll make some eye contact. I don't know what's going to come of it, but it's an opportunity.

[01:10:49] That’s the thing. I just look for opportunities. I don't look for jobs. I don't look for handouts. I don't look for favors. Every time somebody asks you to show up and do that. When you called and said, "Do this podcast." It's an opportunity and I'm sure there are people listening to me right now that have never bought a ticket to Howie Mandel show, that may have never even turned on America's Got Talent, that don't know what Deal Or No Deal is, and I've never seen the Instagram site, you know, Animals Doing Things. It just opens me up to a new audience. And even if that new audience is four new people that never heard me, they're now hearing me. And I don't know what that does for me, but I don't know what it doesn't do for sure. It's an opportunity.

[01:11:31] So, I sat there and I'm waiting for it. And then the adrenaline wore off and I started getting sicker and sicker than I was before because now I sweat and I couldn't stand. And I'm sinking down the wall and I'm sitting on the steps going out at the Sunset Boulevard. I thought I was going to pass out, I was going to lose consciousness. And she stayed in that room after she got off for over an hour. But I waited and she's coming down the stairs and she made contact. I'm lying on the stairs, looking sick, like a rag and a sweaty sick rag. And she goes, "You were very funny." And I go, "Thank you." And she goes, "Have you ever been on The Tonight Show?" I go, "It's my birthday this week." She goes, "Well, give this guy a call." And it was Billy Sammeth, her manager. And she put me on that week and I did The Tonight Show with Joan Rivers that week. Four days later, I get a call from the guy who said, "You'll never be on the show." Johnny saw me on with Joan Rivers and wanted me on two weeks later and then I ended up doing 22 episodes of The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:12:28] So that gatekeeper, whoever that was, he was wrong.

Howie Mandel: [01:12:30] He was.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:12:31] And you had to get around him. So you did. And then when you --

Howie Mandel: [01:12:34] You're right, you're right.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:12:35] Wow

Howie Mandel: [01:12:36] And by the same token, I say the same thing to people who come on AGT. "You come on AGT, even if you get four X’s, and we'd go that’s not good. Somebody out there may have seen you and you might be perfect for this movie. They're thinking of." Do you know what I mean? You don't know what it is. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. You don't know where your eggs are, but you can't line them up. You have eggs all over the place and as long as there are eyeballs seeing you and you're not in control, as long as you take those opportunities, as long as you're out there, as long as you walk through the door, you're always going to end up someplace else. But if you lock yourself in your room, you're going no place.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:13:13] Something that mystified me when I was doing the show prep was you started selling carpet before comedy, obviously.

Howie Mandel: [01:13:19] You know, I can always go back.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:13:20] You could always go back. Yeah, but you're colorblind too.

Howie Mandel: [01:13:23] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:13:24] So I guess a colorblind carpet salesman explains a lot of carpet choices and buildings that I've gone into in the past. But I don't understand -- how did that not affect your performance on the job a little bit, not being able to see the color of the carpet that you were selling?

Howie Mandel: [01:13:41] It probably affected the look of many homes, but the truth of the matter is I didn't think. Again, so I got thrown out of schools. I was asked to leave school and I worked. I got a job because I had to get a job right away in a warehouse, the carpet warehouse. And I saw the people coming in, the wholesalers coming in with their samples, and talking to the salesman. And I said, "I could do that. I don't need to drive a forklift truck. I could do that. I could sell somebody." No thought to the fact that I have to know colors. It's like I came to that when the first time somebody said, "What color do you think would go with this?" And that's when I realized, "Oh, I'm not going to say I'm colorblind." So I just said, "This --”

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:24] Are you like red-green colorblind or fully --?

Howie Mandel: [01:14:26] Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:26] Okay.

Howie Mandel: [01:14:27] No, red-green, but I still don't know how to put things together. And they would say, "What color is this?" And I would read the back, "This is azure seas."

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:36] Which is like blue.

Howie Mandel: [01:14:37] Probably, I don't know. But then they would might say, "Well blue." "Yeah, if that's how you see it. It's different depending on the lighting in your house, depending on the -- but I think this would be -- do you see a color here that you would like because it's your house and we all see colors differently." So that's where I say that impulse over-thought because if I think about, if I thought I'm going to go, "Maybe the carpet business is good. Or wait a minute, I'm colorblind, let me think of something else." I would have stopped it. And I ended up doing really good in the carpet business because I didn't think about it. I could sell anybody. And I realized that what I do with the carpet business is exactly what I do today. It’s exactly what anybody does. You know, ultimately just selling, just selling yourself. If people want to do business with you, they’ll buy a carpet from you, they'll come to see a comedy show, they’ll watch you on TV, they'll listen to your podcast. It's all the same.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:15:30] I love the idea that it's selling actually. That makes a lot of sense. And that resonates really well with a lot of what you said before. You opened up the carpet shop and you mentioned that you talked to a lot of the indigent homeless people, drug addicts and things like that. What did you learn from all that? Did that do anything for your comedy? Did that inform your performance at all?

Howie Mandel: [01:15:47] No, I'm fascinated. Everyone is different than you and me, everyone. But the more different, the more character, the more up to speak spirits, the more -- my wife, if she does get mad at me, she goes, "You have to talk to everybody?" I am so fascinated. People say, "Why do you still do a hundred dates a year?" I don't want to be in LA, in New York. If I'm making television or I'm on television or hopefully, watched by millions of people, I want to be in front of people that are not experiencing what I'm experiencing in this little bubble. I want to meet real people. I've somebody looks kind of different or there's a different expression. I want to go up and say, "Hey, what's your name? Where are you from?" And I do. I talk to strangers in the street. I'll talk to and ask anybody. My wife gets mad at me because I ask questions of strangers. I'm so curious, curious. Curiosity is my fuel and I'm so curious about it, but I get answers and then I get involved and then it gets emotional and then it becomes an evening. Then it's my wife and I and a homeless person having dinner.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:16:58] Really?

Howie Mandel: [01:16:59] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:17:00] Wow, I'm surprised. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Actually, I'm not surprised at all. I don't know why that was my reaction.

Howie Mandel: [01:17:06] You went from surprise to not really surprise.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:17:07] No, it makes sense. It totally checks out. It reminds me of the fact that when you were on your -- and I'm putting this in air quotes -- honeymoon, you basically just took your wife to the comedy club and did like --

Howie Mandel: [01:17:18] Well, we didn't have any money and her honeymoon was sitting on a stool beside me on stage like --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:17:23] She was on stage.

Howie Mandel: [01:17:24] Oh yeah. And I would tell the audience, "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Howie Mandel's honeymoon. This is my lovely bride." And then she was sitting on stage beside me in a little comedy club in Toronto at Yuk Yuk's and we shared that together. But it's kind of funny and kooky and different and it's what we can afford. And you know, every day since I've been married has been -- I mean it sounds kind of corny -- but it is a honeymoon. I have somebody to share it with. This is a weird and wacky world. I live in a weird and wacky world. I really do. What I do for a living doesn't even seem like a job. What I do for a living, I mean, it's not even for a living. What I do every moment seems like -- you know, I'm sitting here talking -- you're stranger, I don't know you. And I'm sitting here talking about myself to you and a bunch of other strangers --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:18:14] And future of you, yeah.

Howie Mandel: [01:18:16] And the future me -- I'm listening to myself. I'm using the wrong term -- you've been doing it for 13 years -- but it's weird.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:18:25] It is weird. Yeah. I mean like --

Howie Mandel: [01:18:27] It’s not the norm.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:18:28] Right. In most settings, I would ask you these things when they're not cameras and microphones and you'd be like, "Why would I answer that? Why would you ask --?

Howie Mandel: [01:18:35] No.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:18:37] Maybe not you but somebody else.

Howie Mandel: [01:18:37] Not me, but my setting, I'll do this. I'm happy to talk to anybody anytime, whether it's being recorded or not. I'm fascinated by humanity. I'm fascinated by somebody who has a different experience than me. I'm fascinated. I'm just curious, crazy curious.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:18:54] That explains a little bit of the crowd work. I said before I watched your comedy special and you're really good at a crowd work and it seems like a risky thing to do because -- well I assume you're off-script. I don't know. Maybe there's some scripted stuff inside crowd work that I don't really understand.

Howie Mandel: [01:19:09] We were talking about this before we went on the air. First of all, after 40 years of being in this business, I have a plethora of material that can be planned and I look to be taken off that beaten path. But we talked about even at the same time and you're doing it right now, you're having a conversation with me, but at the same time maybe people who are not watching this and just listening to this, you have a laptop in front of you -- that's what I'm saying. So you have to listen to my answers so that your cognizant of what we're saying and we can carry on a fluid discussion. But at the same time, you have to look at what's next and where are we going to or what did we already talk about this, is this part of the plan and "I'm checking it off and it's gone. Howie mentioned it, and I didn't even ask it." So you're doing things at the -- and by the same token, who's ever listening to this might be listening to this and maybe enjoying a moment of this, but at the same time you're signaling and because you could make sure that you're turning left or you're following Waze and you're getting to work. We do things on different levels at the same time. So while I'm doing my act, if I notice something in my periphery, you know, somebody who's not reacting, two people are talking, somebody looks like they shouldn't be there, it's a kid. I'm not beyond to just stop in a second and I'll get back on track and go, "Wait a minute. What are you doing?" "What was that sound?" "What did you just yell out?" "Hey, what's your name?" You know, I love to be taken off that path and it sends me down a new fresh.

[01:20:34] And after all these years, my ability to multitask has become a lot easier for me or I'm not so worried about it. Again, it's not thinking about it because you could think, I wrote an act, I'm doing my act. Don't disturb me. Well, these are just humans that are sitting there. Things happen. They get up, they have to go to the bathroom. They might make a noise, they might sneeze. There might be a kid in the front row that shouldn't be in the front row. You know, all these things. And I've learned it the hard way. I've told this story before about playing a big theater and killing it, killing it. The people are roaring and laughing. And I look to my left as I'm looking down in front of the audience, there's somebody sitting there that's not making any eye contact with me and not even smiling. And every comic will tell you that it becomes about that person. You have 7,000 people going crazy and you have one person for some reason has a stick up their ass. And it became about that and I stopped. You know the flow of getting people -- like once you get them there, it's like a ferry. It's like they're on a wheel. It snowballs. Once you get them laughing and there's no break, you could just keep adding and adding and adding and talking and you just get this wave. But as a neurotic comic, you focus on the one person that doesn't --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:21:51] That negativity bias, man.

Howie Mandel: [01:21:52] Yeah, but that's it. So I remembered stopping right in the middle and going, "Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, you with the blue shirt. I seem to be doing well. You're not looking at me. You're not reacting to me. What is wrong? You're sitting right up front and center. What is wrong?" And the lady beside him and goes, "He's blind."

Jordan Harbinger: [01:22:12] Oh man.

Howie Mandel: [01:22:13] You see, you said, "Oh man." And I repeated it because that's what happens. I went, he's blind and now the whole audience, you could hear the wind leave the room. Everybody's heart just drops and you go and I go, "Where the hell do I go from here? I was just crushing it." Like an idiot. I had to look at this one person that nobody else saw. He was front row. So there wasn't even anybody around to see that. I could have just sailed through. What the fuck did I just do? Why did I point this out? And he's blind in that. And I repeated he's blind. And then the first thing that popped into my mind, and that's why I throw caution to the wind, the way I make decisions because I'll just say what comes to me without thinking and had, I thought I wouldn't have said this, but I just went, "Can I ask one question? What the hell? Why? Why, why would you spend money for a front-row seat for a blind person? What are you wasting money?" It's a fundraising -- he's blind. It's so much cheaper than the balcony. And you could tell me he's in the front seat. What the hell are you doing?" And luckily, I got the audience back and they were roaring and it was so awkward and so uncomfortable that we all kind of joined in that moment together. And to this day, I'll have people that walk up to me and go, "I was there that day, remember the blind guy in the front." You know, but that's a moment that turned out to be great. It went from horror to great. So I'm comfortable with delving over that first big hill on the roller coaster of performing.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:23:45] I can see everyone just feeling really bad for both you and him in that particular moment. And then they want like everyone wanted you to rescue that one.

Howie Mandel: [01:23:53] Yes, I did. And the thing is that there's a lot of people in my business that probably would have skimmed over it and this movement and just tried to gather themselves. But I also felt, and this is the same philosophy I have from the beginning of this podcast when you want to talk about my OCD, I think you've got to share. I think the more you share, the more you engage. So when that person told me they were blind, I went, "Oh my God, I am so sorry. This just threw me. I'll be honest with you. I am so uncomfortable. I just ruined my whole show. How do I turn this into funny?" And I shared that out loud and that's the audience enjoyed this journey too and kind of related to that journey. Nobody else in the audience I don't think was a standup comic or had been in that situation, but they were all, all of us as humans were taking that ride together. And that's the journey. Everybody on the roller coaster is screaming. There are a hundred people going, but we're all together in this. And that's the feeling. That's what I feel about life.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:24:49] What do you think you'd be doing now if you didn't end up in showbiz or comedy?

Howie Mandel: [01:24:54] Selling. I’ll be selling, I'd be talking to you about shag carpet.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:24:59] I thought you said Shaq and I thought what?

Howie Mandel: [01:25:01] No.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:25:02] He’ll sell himself.

Howie Mandel: [01:25:02] Yes, I buy Shaq. Shag carpet.

Jordan Harbinger:  [01:25:05] This has been amazing. I'm really, really glad that we were able to make this happen and I really thank you for your expertise, time, and sense of humor and just for everything you've done over the years has been awesome.

Howie Mandel: [01:25:17] So this is a goodbye.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:25:18] I guess so, yeah.

Howie Mandel: [01:25:19] What an awkward way to end the podcast.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:25:20] Really? Why is it that bad?

Howie Mandel: [01:25:23] Well, I'm going to be totally honest with you. I was just in the middle of some of the things that I had to say. Like I've just felt like this is the halfway point and now it's going to get good and now I'm going to take off. No, I really, I just got comfortable and I was just about to open up like I've never opened up before --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:25:40] Next time.

Howie Mandel: [01:25:41] No, no, that’s it. You had your opportunity. Bye. Thanks for having me.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:25:46] Yeah.

Howie Mandel: [01:25:48] And download the special, watch Animals Doing Things, Deal or No Deal on CNBC on the 12th, Animals Doing Things NatGeo on the 15th, Season 14 of AGT. I wish I got a chance to open up.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:03] Yeah. Sorry. You know, I've only been doing this for 13 years, maybe in a couple more decades, I'll be able to get down to business a little faster.

Howie Mandel: [01:26:11] That's so much to say. Okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:15] I guess just fade to black now maybe.

Howie Mandel: [01:26:18] Isn't this audio?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:19] Yeah, it is. What's the fade --?

Howie Mandel: [01:26:21] Fade to silent.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:22] it’s fade to silent. Yeah.

Howie Mandel: [01:26:22] Fade to silent.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:23] Fade to silent.

Howie Mandel: [01:26:24] I'll just do it by myself.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:24] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:31] Jason, I got to say I was a little bummed that you weren't there for this one because his office is just -- if you and I had an unlimited budget for a ridiculously cool man cave, it would be this place.

Jason DeFillippo: [01:26:44] Yeah. I was really bummed I couldn't make it to that one too. I've been a huge fan of Howie for basically my entire life. So it was kind of sad that I couldn't make it out for that one. But I've seen the pictures and man, it's a very cool place. We definitely need to get one of those one of these days.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:26:57] Well I mean we got to go back there because he's got like a Deal Or No Deal slot machines, Deal Or No Deal arcade games. He's got all this different paraphernalia from like here's when he was on Johnny Carson, and he would just take stuff and there's a set of cue cards that say coming up Robin Williams and someone else and it says, "Do not take this card." And he's like, "Yeah, but it was the final show of Johnny Carson." So I figured what the hell, it's not like he's going to need it. So he took that. He's got a huge fish tank with like eels and a blowfish in it and all these murals painted. And I said, "Who's cookie? Who's this artist?" And he goes, "What I do is when I travel, if I see art that I like, I find out who made it. And then I fly him out here and have him make something in the office."

Jason DeFillippo: [01:27:40] Oh, how cool is that

Jordan Harbinger: [01:27:42] Right like imagine you're just hanging out and you're like, "Oh, look at this Banksy or Shepard Fairey piece or whoever and you're like, Hey, let me just fly out here and do it." Because I think at this point, growing up the way that he did and having a really long career where he wasn't banking the whole time -- he did well and then there was like a lull that could have easily been 20-plus years long and now he's probably made like nine figures doing Deal Or No Deal and America's Got Talent. Who knows? So he realizes, "Look, I'm in my 60s. I want to enjoy stuff." And he's got kids and he's the nicest person, man. I'm telling you. There were so many things in my notes that I didn't have time to go through. And he's got so many freaking funny stories that he has in his book, which I recommend reading if you like Howie Mandel. It's a little older, but it is so funny. We hung out for a while in the office afterwards watching America's Got Talent Highlights. He was just like, "Hey, did you see the golden buzzer from yesterday?" We're like, "No. We were prepping for this." And he's like, "Oh, come over here." And he puts it on the TV and we just sat down and watched some AGT Highlights that he wanted us to see.

Jason DeFillippo: [01:28:50] Man, that would be so much fun.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:28:52] Imagine, you're sitting there with the judge of the show going, "What was it about this that you'd liked the most?" Or, "Why didn't you like that?" And he's just sitting there it to us and he hang out prior to the show and he helped us set everything up, not like tripods, but he was like moving tables and everything and he was yelling at us in a funny way and it's just such a fun experience to go into his place and do the interview right there on top of the logo that he used in his standup special. We just have the table planted on that sort of outline of his face. And the background -- if you're watching us on YouTube -- is a hot air balloon where it's a hot air balloon -- what are those things called Jason, where you stick your head through the flat picture and you're the guy in the cartoon or you're like the Spartan.

Jason DeFillippo: [01:29:42] Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Like at the circus where you put your head through and you can take a picture with it.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:29:47] Right, like you stick your head through there and your Mickey Mouse, that kind of thing. So he has a Howie Mandal thing and that was the background of the video. It's him in a hot air balloon and then he shoved a pillow with his face on it. By the way, he has a lot of pillows with his face on it.

Jason DeFillippo: [01:30:01] Okay. That's random.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:30:03] It is but they're from different eras of his life. So he has one from probably like 1978, full head of hair, curly like Jewish hair fro. And then there are more modern ones where he's got the head shaved, and then there are ones where it's clearly like made this year or so where he looks exactly like he does. And Jen goes, "If we've taken anything away from this, it's that you need more pillows with your face on it at home." Okay, maybe I said that but still it was definitely one of the takeaways from the show and we talked about show hosting as well. We touched on it during the show, but one thing we discussed was he knows when the energy of the show is going down a little. So he teases something else and I asked him if he did that and he goes you're the only person that's ever really noticed that. I said, "I think everybody notices it. It's just that not everybody's thinking about it." So you know, if you and I are hosting a show, you'll say to me, or I'll just naturally go and say something or interrupt or make a joke because the story's droning on. Or it's like the energy, the vibe is just kind of crashing. He feels that on Deal or No Deal or even AGT and he'll just ramp up the energy and then let it sort of slide back down the hill and then ramp up the energy and let it slide back down the hill.

[01:31:14] That's his job as a host. And I thought that was really interesting, a little bit of meta there. It's like how I use the iPad and I listen and I plan the next bit of conversation at the same time. And if you're watching me on YouTube and a lot of people have asked me this, they're like, "What are you doing on the iPad because you don't have these awkward pauses in conversation." And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm tracking like 17 things at once." So there's a lot going on that we make look second nature or effortless. But he knows his practice because he does the same thing. And he was talking about Howard Stern and him doing that. I just thought this is like the most interesting interview on so many levels that we have done and so I hope you all enjoyed that conversation as well.

Jason DeFillippo: [01:31:53] I certainly did. And I can't wait to do round two so I can actually come over and check this place out. And I want some Johnny Carson stories because I grew up with Johnny Carson and I saw him on Johnny Carson a lot. So I want to get some behind-the-scenes scoop on that. And I loved the Joan Rivers story that was so cool. Talk about a trooper, like almost half-dead, got the flu, bangs it out, does his set, and then gets on the show. That's how you do it, man. That's really how you do it.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:32:19] Right, like the level of hustle where he's going, "Look, I probably am not going to get too many opportunities like this and this is my life, so I'm doing this." He just never let anything get in the way and I think he's still like that. And part of it is just him being a hard worker. But the other part is, I think he realized at some point, this is my shot. He was selling carpet. He dropped out of high school. This was his shot. And you don't go, "Wah, I have the flu." You would have to be in the hospital in a medically induced coma to not make it for something like that. And so he went after it.

Jason DeFillippo: [01:32:56] And what did he have to lose the, you know, The Tonight Show guys already said no, so why not, go in through the side door, find another avenue, work it up.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:33:04] Exactly. Exactly. So it was inspiring for that reason as well. And I love this episode. Like I said, I just had a great time and he said yes right away. This is one of those funny interviews where I had the right introduction from Adam Corolla that didn't hurt and he just thought, "Sure, why the hell not," and boom. And I thought, "For real?" I was waiting for him to cancel because he had to go to do some thing on a private jet. It was just until we were sitting there, I was like, this might not happen. Don't get disappointed.

[01:33:33] If you want to know how we get those introductions. It's not just pure luck and it's not just knowing a bunch of people throughout the years in some sort of haphazard way. I've got a very specific structure and I'm teaching you how to do this for free at jordanharbinger.com/course. And I know you're thinking, "Oh, I don't need this or I don't really want to do that, or I'll do it later." Don't kick the can down the road. You got to dig the well before you're thirsty. The drills take a few minutes per day. It's all just small habits. It's not a bunch of stuff you got to do and it's all at jordanharbinger.com/course. And by the way, most of the guests on the show actually subscribed to the course and the newsletter. So come join us, you'll be in good company.

[01:34:11] Speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Howie Mandel. I’m at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. There's a video of this interview on our YouTube channel and Howie is quite animated and fun, and that's at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. Jason, when does Deal or No Deal start?

Jason DeFillippo: [01:34:27] Deal Or No Deal premiers on CNBC Wednesday, June 12th, so definitely go check that out.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:34:33] The show is produced in association with PodcastOne and this episode was co-produced by Jason "Don't touch me" DeFillippo and Jen Harbinger, show notes and worksheets are by Robert Fogarty, and I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful, which should be in every episode. So please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[01:35:02] A lot of people ask me which podcasts I recommend and of course, I recommend Happier with Gretchen Rubin. She's been on the show before and she's a brilliant writer. Gretchen, you're with us here today and recently you had Episode 206. What's the best resolution you've ever made? And that's a bold statement. Tell us a little bit about that episode.

Gretchen Rubin: [01:35:20] Yeah. You know, I do this show with my sister and co-host Elizabeth Craft and we talk a lot about the ideas that we try, but sometimes we throw ideas out to our audience and say, "You know, tell us your answers." So we asked the question, "What's the best resolution you've ever made?" Because I think we can all learn from each other and it was absolutely fascinating to talk through -- was your best resolution to quit sugar, was your best resolution to start a book group, was your best resolution to spend more time in nature. You really got a sense of all the things that people were trying. And what we saw after that episode came out was that, well then people got ideas from each other. And so it's a great way to get the conversation going. And as you always are talking about, how do you get people inspired to aim higher, have a bigger life.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:36:03] And of course, we'll link to this episode in the show notes and you can find Happier with Gretchen Rubin anywhere you get your podcasts. Thanks, Gretchen.

Gretchen Rubin: [01:36:09] Thank you.