Your abusive ex was grievously injured by his now-new ex for cheating. Should you visit him in hospital or let him suffer alone? Welcome to Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- Your abusive ex was grievously injured by his now-new ex for cheating. Should you visit him in hospital or let him suffer alone?
- Are “friends” who endlessly rib you for being single and omit you from the group chat they think you don’t know about worth your time? They certainly aren’t helping you feel less lonely.
- You were conscripted to train the person who was hired for the job you covet, while your boss had the gall to tell you you haven’t “suffered” enough to fill those shoes yet. How insulted should you be?
- You’ve identified as a badass, hard-working nurse for so long that you don’t know how to be a different kind of person in your new line of work. How do you find fulfillment on this new path?
- Samantha Woll: Thankful to have known her. May her memory be a blessing.
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi.
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Join us for episode 192: Rick Hanson | The Science of Hardwiring Happiness and Resilience as we explore practical techniques to rewire your brain for happiness, love, and inner peace, man!
Resources from This Episode:
- Chris DeArmitt | Rethinking Plastic’s Environmental Impact | Jordan Harbinger
- Mosab Hassan Yousef | The Green Prince of Hamas Redux | Jordan Harbinger
- Andy Milonakis | Threads
- Jay Mewes | Threads
- Nine Questions about Ramadan You Were Too Embarrassed to Ask | Vox
- The Subcontinental Treasure: Indian Cuisine vs Pakistani Cuisine | Laree Adda Restaurant
- Rotisserie Chicken, Shawerma, Tarna, and Our Legendary Garlic Sauce | Zankou Chicken
- Love Bombing: What You Should Know | Verywell Mind
- Dehua Rubber Mallet | Amazon
- Misery | Prime Video
- The Shinebox Scene | Goodfellas
- I’ve Just Found Out That All of My Friends Have Created a Group Chat Without Me | Quora
- Seven Dark Reasons Why Good Workers Don’t Get Promoted
- The Best Way to Ask for a Promotion — And Make Sure You Land It | Jordan Harbinger
- Signs You’re Not Well-Liked at Work (And What to Do about It) | Jordan Harbinger
- What is Nursing Informatics? | HIMSS
- Remembering Sam Woll, the Beating Heart of the Detroit Jewish Community | Hey Alma
926: Is Compassion Apt for Abusive Ex, Kneecapped? | Feedback Friday
[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my accomplice in advice-you-tainment, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.
[00:00:25] During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from Russian spies and gold smugglers and astronauts and four-star generals all the way to journalists and poker champions. This week, we had Chris DeArmitt. This was about how plastics aren't that bad and it's not a big deal in a lot of ways. And I either got played hard or the plastic problem in our environment is really not as impossible to solve as we think and plastics might actually be more green than we ever thought if you can believe it. Great news about plastics from a plastics expert and scientist who doesn't actually sell plastic and is therefore much more credible than somebody who does.
[00:01:03] And another episode with Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of a Hamas co-founder. This one's a mashup of an older episode from three years ago with new commentary, with new relevant commentary for the current conflict. That episode previously aired three-plus years ago and is just, yeah, hyper-relevant to today.
[00:01:19] On Fridays, though, we share stories, we offer advice, we play bizarre soundbites like a couple of niche shock jocks from the 90s, and we generally roast Gabriel for his overly ambitious sign-offs.
[00:01:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: We do that.
[00:01:31] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe, funny story I remembered this week a long time ago. When I lived in Hollywood, I was out walking around, and I'd go to this one gas station to get drinks a lot.
[00:01:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.
[00:01:39] Jordan Harbinger: And it was near this fancy apartment where all these sort of famous media types lived, and Andy Milonakis and Jay from Jay and Silent Bob, they were my neighbors and—
[00:01:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is this that place in Hollywood where we would put our feet in the pool sometimes and hang out? Is it that building?
[00:01:52] Jordan Harbinger: It must be that place because, yeah, we had a pool and it was the old Hollywood hotel, but then they built a high rise next to it.
[00:01:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.
[00:01:58] Jordan Harbinger: And you could live in the hotel or you could live in the high rise.
[00:02:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. I remember that place. Mm-hmm.
[00:02:02] Jordan Harbinger: So I lived there with all these celebrities who are past their prime or just never quite hit the brass ring or whatever. And then me, which is very fitting now that I think about it. I think a Pakistani guy worked at the gas station on the corner and it was a busy gas station. And one day I walked in there, it was Ramadan. I used to pass by there and I'd grab a drink or something, and I asked him, "Hey, what are you eating?" Like, I'd just never seen him eat and I didn't recognize the food. And he was breaking the fast for Ramadan, because I guess the sun had gone down or whatever the rules are. And he goes, "Oh, Ramadan, this, that." And he's like, "I see you all the time. Where do you live?" And I said, "Oh, back there." And I pointed toward my apartment building which was next to the freeway, the 101, if you know LA at all or California. And he goes, "Oh, the overpass." And I was like, "Yeah, I just thought I lived just under the overpass there."
[00:02:49] And this guy's whole demeanor changes and he shares his food with me, which is weird, right? But he insists on sharing the food with me. And I accept because, you know, It's really nice and I want to be agreeable, I guess. And I just figured I'd seen this guy a bunch and he's like being super friendly, but he makes me eat like all of his food. And I'm like, okay, dude, aren't you fasting? Like, shouldn't you eat this? And he's kind of pushy about it, which I found a little weird, but I was like, okay, this guy really wants to be hospitable and halfway through the food. I realize why he's sharing his food with me and it's because it's a religious holiday and he thinks I live under the overpass with all of these like glue huffing sort of junky people that live in this Hollywood overpass, which are, there's a lot of tragedy in this area and there's a lot of people living under the overpass.
[00:03:41] So he was doing this, I don't know what you'd call it, like a mitzvah or the Muslim equivalent of a mitzvah by sharing all this Ramadan food with me and so I sat there and ate the food and then I debated awkwardly explaining to him that I actually lived in the fancy luxury high rise with a swimming pool and like three balconies or whatever on my unit down the street but I thought better of it because at this point why bother, right? He's just going to be like, "What?"
[00:04:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: So you just let him believe that you were homeless?
[00:04:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I guess, because I was like, I can't go back now, dude.
[00:04:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Did you ever go back?
[00:04:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, but I'm like, should I wear torn clothing? Like, I don't even know if I should. And it just, he's a very nice guy. And Pakistani food, it was amazing, by the way. I definitely became a fan of the cuisine.
[00:04:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's really funny.
[00:04:22] Jordan Harbinger: Because I figured if gas station attendant box lunch or Ramadan dinner or whatever was this tasty, I should probably check it out. I'd say it's like Indian food, but I don't want to get shivved.
[00:04:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, yeah, you're going to stumble into a geopolitical conflict with that comparison.
[00:04:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I'm going to get super, super messed up by those.
[00:04:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a really funny story though.
[00:04:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.
[00:04:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's so hilarious.
[00:04:40] Jordan Harbinger: It was so ridiculous because I was like, why is this guy making me eat this food? It's like giving me all these lentils or whatever. And I'm like, this is really good. And then I'm like, why, it's so weird. He's making me eat this. And I'm just a random customer who he thinks I live under the freeway. Now, it all makes sense. You know, what's weird is it's not even close to Ramadan, but I think what reminded me of this was Thanksgiving is coming up and I was like, oh, it's kind of reminds me of the time I ate some Pakistani guy's dinner that he'd been waiting for like 13 hours or something to eat. And he's like, "God's watching me. I should probably let this homeless guy eat their lentils."
[00:05:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: That dude was hungry all the next day because you pretended to be somebody you weren't.
[00:05:18] Jordan Harbinger: By the way, I was coming from a big ass chicken dinner, so I wasn't even hungry at all.
[00:05:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. That is the most Harbinger stuff I've ever heard. That's great.
[00:05:30] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh, God, wait, what is the name of the chicken place that is so good in LA? You're a vegan, I know this. Hold on, let me — what is the name? It's a chain.
[00:05:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is it Zangkou Chicken?
[00:05:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah! So I was on my way back from Zangkou Chicken, and I had just hammered down a ton of food, so I was like struggling to eat this. Meanwhile, this guy's starving, watching me eat his food. While I'm like, oh, it's so good, but I'm so full.
[00:05:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh man, that's great. I like the idea of you having to cosplay as somebody who lives under the underpass for the rest of the four years you lived in that building.
[00:06:01] Jordan Harbinger: I'm like, guess I can't ever patronize this business again because I might see this guy. And then, of course, I eventually got a car. This was before I had a car, so I was always walking. He probably saw me a bunch.
[00:06:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:11] Jordan Harbinger: You know, I can never fill my car up at this gas station because he's going to be like, "What? You have a brand new Ford Fusion? What the hell? How is that possible?"
[00:06:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, man, that's great.
[00:06:18] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, God. All right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
[00:06:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I dated a guy for about six months a few years ago. At the time, I was 24 and he was 40.
[00:06:30] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.
[00:06:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: It seemed at first like I'd found a mature man who knew how to treat me like a proper lady. He spoiled me with gifts and compliments, and we fell hard and fast for each other.
[00:06:41] Jordan Harbinger: Well, here we go.
[00:06:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: But what started as a fairy tale quickly turned into a nightmare, as a classic domestic abuse situation started to unfold. My Prince Charming turned out to be a violent alcoholic.
[00:06:55] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, no.
[00:06:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: The love bombing made the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse seem worth it after he isolated me from my friends and family. I justified staying with him because I saw his alcoholism as a sickness and I loved him so much, I just wanted to help him.
[00:07:12] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man, this is really disturbing. So this guy was a real monster, and you on the other hand, you sound really kind, very compassionate, but that might have been part of the reason he was able to do all this.
[00:07:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on—
[00:07:24] I finally got the strength to walk away the day he hit me.
[00:07:28] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh, good. Well done.
[00:07:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Nice.
[00:07:30] Jordan Harbinger: That couldn't have been easy, but the timing was obviously right if he hit you. My gosh.
[00:07:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Best thing you ever did.
[00:07:36] It's been about a year and a half since that day, and we haven't spoken since. I've been to therapy to process the trauma and have made peace with the experience. I learned how to protect myself from people like this in the future, and I've come to appreciate how I grew from the situation.
[00:07:52] Incredible. Again, amazing job. Well done.
[00:07:55] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I agree. I think it sounds like you've healed and grown a ton here.
[00:07:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.
[00:07:58] Jordan Harbinger: Best thing you can do after an experience like this, figure out why it happened, figure out how to make sure it never happens again. Really proud of you for that.
[00:08:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:07] Then, recently, I got a text from one of our mutual friends filling me in on a harrowing tale involving my ex.
[00:08:14] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.
[00:08:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: According to this friend, my ex got into a huge fight with his new girlfriend. Apparently, she caught him cheating on her, which came as no surprise since he was cheating on me as well.
[00:08:23] Jordan Harbinger: Well, what a class act.
[00:08:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Phew.
[00:08:25] Jordan Harbinger: So he's still a dysfunctional mess. Cool.
[00:08:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: But, this woman took his infidelity a bit harder than I did, to say the least. They were driving in a car together arguing when she kicked him out and told him to walk home. She then proceeded to get out of the car, come up behind him with a rubber mallet, and take out his knees.
[00:08:45] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, I did not see that coming. Wow.
[00:08:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: She straight-up Kathy Bates and miseried him? Jesus, oof.
[00:08:54] Jordan Harbinger: Good reference.
[00:08:55] Soundbite: Boy, that escalated quickly. [Anchorman]
[00:08:57] Jordan Harbinger: And I know I used that soundbite last week, but I think it was justified in both instances.
[00:09:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: It really was. Yeah. Also, who has a rubber mallet just lying around in the trunk? That's a niche weapon, I got to say.
[00:09:08] Jordan Harbinger: The simple answer is a woman with an axe to grind, or a rubber mallet to grind, as the case may be. But here's my thing. Nobody just has that sitting in the truck.
[00:09:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.
[00:09:17] Jordan Harbinger: So she put that sh*t in there and she was ready for this moment. You know, a week prior, she's walking through Home Depot and she's like, "Knife. Nah, too messy. Sledgehammer. Nah, too hard. Might kill him. Ah, rubber mallet. Perfect. Maming, but no blood and seven dollars and 97 cents later, here we are. And yes, I did look up the price of a 16-ounce rubber mallet just now.
[00:09:43] And, by the way, Harbor Freight actually has them for $3.99, but I think they might only be good for, like, maybe one kneecap before they break? So, you might not want to get the Harbor Freight, one word to the wise.
[00:09:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's actually a lot cheaper than I would have thought.
[00:09:55] Jordan Harbinger: I agree.
[00:09:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Honestly, unless this woman is into woodworking, or, I don't know, removing dents from metal. Like, you got to wonder why homegirl is riding dirty with a weapon that you would only see in like a Martin Scorsese movie.
[00:10:11] Jordan Harbinger: I feel like this is how Joe Pesci would deal with somebody like this.
[00:10:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh boy, okay, let's see where this goes.
[00:10:16] Jordan Harbinger: Aah, man.
[00:10:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Once he was on the ground, she—
[00:10:19] I'm sorry, I can't.
[00:10:21] Jordan Harbinger: This guy's about to get murdered and we are—
[00:10:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: I did not mean to laugh. Let me tell you something bad is — I'm not, I'm pulling it together. Hang on. Okay, deep breath.
[00:10:31] Once he was on the ground, she ran over him with her car.
[00:10:34] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my god.
[00:10:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then, turned back around—
[00:10:39] Jordan Harbinger: No.
[00:10:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: —to run over him again.
[00:10:43] Jordan Harbinger: Why am I laughing? This is so horrible. But it's so funny. Oh god, I'm trying, oh, this is so bananas. She really wanted this guy. That is blind rage. First of all, the premeditated kneecapping of this man.
[00:10:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:57] Jordan Harbinger: And then, just like, "I'm going to run you over. You know, you're not dead yet. I'm going to run you over again." I mean, she really just impulse control issues.
[00:11:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know why that made us laugh so hard.
[00:11:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.
[00:11:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: But there's something about the visual I have of this scene, even though it's horrifying, it's just kind of funny. I don't know why. I'm sorry. Okay, let's just, let's keep reading.
[00:11:17] Now he's in critical condition in the hospital with shattered legs, all kinds of—
[00:11:22] Jordan Harbinger: Dude, you can't laugh.
[00:11:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dude, you can't laugh. You laughed, I didn't laugh, this is so f*cked up.
[00:11:31] I can't get through this if you're laughing, if we're both laughing, okay. Sorry, everybody, you have to listen to this.
[00:11:36] Now, he's in critical condition.
[00:11:44] Now, he's in critical condition in the hospital with shattered legs, all kinds of internal bruising, broken ribs, the works. He's going to be in the hospital for a long time. And the doctors are saying he might never walk again.
[00:11:57] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.
[00:11:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow.
[00:11:59] Jordan Harbinger: That, okay, now that we've finally gotten through that, that is really intense.
[00:12:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.
[00:12:03] Jordan Harbinger: But also—
[00:12:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Kind of got what was coming to him?
[00:12:06] Jordan Harbinger: Kinda.
[00:12:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Kinda.
[00:12:06] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, no one deserves to be run over twice and paralyzed.
[00:12:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sure.
[00:12:11] Jordan Harbinger: Look, you treat people like garbage. Maybe you pick people who are a little unstable. Stuff like this can happen. That was an unreasonable reaction from this woman, but obviously—
[00:12:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.
[00:12:21] Jordan Harbinger: She's damaged and then he pushed all of her buttons and here we are.
[00:12:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Correct. Yeah, it is very interesting. So she goes on.
[00:12:28] My initial reaction was morbid, which I'm sure dark Jordan can appreciate.
[00:12:32] Jordan Harbinger: Well, certainly, proven by the last few minutes of this podcast.
[00:12:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: I chalked it up to karma and said good riddance a person as chaotic and harmful as he is needed to be stopped.
[00:12:43] Jordan Harbinger: I agree a hundred percent. It's almost poetic I mean he helped create this situation, but holy moly. Wow
[00:12:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: When I told my sister about this, she said I should have a bake sale to help his girlfriend post bail.
[00:12:57] Jordan Harbinger: That's pretty funny.
[00:12:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: That' funny, yeah.
[00:12:58] Jordan Harbinger: Well played, sister.
[00:12:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.
[00:12:59] Jordan Harbinger: Although I would not go anywhere near this woman ever.
[00:13:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh man, that's great. Her sister's on some Dark Jordan-ish right there. That's pretty funny. I like your sister. It's funny.
[00:13:08] But now that the dust has settled, I can't help but think about this a little differently. This is a person who has routinely destroyed all of his close relationships.
[00:13:17] Jordan Harbinger: Correct.
[00:13:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's probably all alone and feeling miserable and helpless in the hospital.
[00:13:23] Jordan Harbinger: Probably.
[00:13:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Probably.
[00:13:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.
[00:13:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: I can't help but wonder how he'll continue to support himself and his young children if he'll never walk again. I should feel vindicated, and part of me does, but most of me feels compassion. After all, I did love him once. I don't hate the guy. And I'm sure now that he's been forced to sober up in the hospital, he must really be feeling the gravity of the situation.
[00:13:47] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, I'm going to restrain myself from chiming in, but just to chime in, you're right, he probably is sobering up and feeling the gravity of the situation as he should. This could/should be a real wake up call for this guy.
[00:13:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, or not, who knows? I hope it is, but he could also be lying in the hospital going, "She's crazy, I'm the victim, I don't deserve this," you know? We don't know.
[00:14:07] Jordan Harbinger: That's true, he might, but for a person like this, somebody who sounds very narcissistic and abusive and out of control, if there's any hope of piercing through the chaos and making him wake up, it's going to be something like this.
[00:14:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's true. So she goes on—
[00:14:20] Despite everything, I still care for his well being. Maybe a text from me would lift his spirits just enough to give him hope to heal physically and maybe even mentally.
[00:14:29] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm.
[00:14:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: I truly do not want to be involved in his life anymore. I just want to offer a little light to someone I once loved who is going through a tough time.
[00:14:40] Jordan Harbinger: Eh, okay.
[00:14:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Should I reach out to him and offer my wishes that he get well soon, or should I just let the feeling go and let him lie in the bed he made, literally and metaphorically? Is it worth the risk of inviting chaos back into my life? Signed, Return to the Scene of the Crime For My One Time Guy Who Almost Died Or Continue My Climb, Because He is Total Slime.
[00:15:02] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, holy smokes, what a story. Gabe, this is—
[00:15:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Bananas.
[00:15:06] Jordan Harbinger: It's better than most movies that come out on Netflix these days. And I can see the scene with the car playing out. Who plays the girlfriend? That's Billie, Billie Eilish.
[00:15:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sure, why not?
[00:15:17] Jordan Harbinger: She could kneecap somebody.
[00:15:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: I can't believe this actually happened though.
[00:15:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.
[00:15:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: But to your point earlier, I guess you got two combustible personalities together. Who knows what's going to happen?
[00:15:26] Jordan Harbinger: I know we're on team ladies here, given what an unmitigated a-h*le this guy is, but you got to wonder what's going on with the girlfriend for her to snap like this. I mean, this is—
[00:15:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: For Sure.
[00:15:35] Jordan Harbinger: —not, you know, slapping your boyfriend or slashing his tires because you found out he was cheating. This is assault, battery, vehicular assault, and almost certainly attempted murder.
[00:15:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: So this woman has got to be in a world of trouble now, right? I'm assuming she's going to do time for this.
[00:15:51] Jordan Harbinger: Well, no doubt. I don't think the cops let you off because your boyfriend's a dick. That's not a mitigating circumstance for zamboning somebody on the side of the road. So no, you should not reach out to this guy and offer your wishes that he get well soon. This guy is a bonafide monster. He's an abuser. He's violent. He's isolated you from your friends and family. That was deliberate. He's in active addiction. He traumatized you, probably repeatedly. What happened to him is horrifying. And I guess in a way it is tragic. I mean, his life is probably never going to be the same. His kids might pay a heavy price, which is unfair in that their dad might never walk again. And that is legitimately awful.
[00:16:30] But like you said, he made his bed. Now he's got to lie in it. He helped engineer this situation through his dysfunction, through his choices. He invited this. And sure, maybe these injuries are disproportionate to what he did. Or, you know, maybe not. But he put himself in a situation where this could happen, if only by dating somebody like this and/or carrying on with other people and having affairs and God knows what else. Who knows what else he might've done to her? Probably a lot of the things he did to you. And now, he needs to deal with the fallout. After everything he put you through, I do not feel this would be smart or healthy for you to reach out to him. I do not.
[00:17:06] It is not your job to comfort him. It is not your place. He doesn't deserve that, in my opinion, even if he is having a come to Jesus moment right now. And I sincerely hope that he is indeed having that. And I hope that he uses this tragedy to take a long, hard look at himself and start doing the kind of work you did after you guys broke up. But man, that is his work, that is his life, and to Gabe's point, you don't even know how he's making sense of all this. He might be the exact same guy in the hospital.
[00:17:32] So reaching out to him, it might validate him in some way, it might signal to him that he can rely on you again, which he's going to definitely try to do, and at a minimum it could easily expose you to more of this guy's chaos and pain. And you do not need that after what you have been through. Full stop.
[00:17:50] Gabe, do you think that's fair? What's your take on this?
[00:17:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Could not agree more what I find interesting about this is what this impulse to reach out to him says about her.
[00:17:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yes.
[00:17:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like you said she's kind, she's compassionate that is so obvious the fact that she can even have empathy for somebody who put her through this much pain is remarkable. And I think that speaks to her really great character. But I think it's very important that she recognized the limits of that empathy and make sure that she's directing it at the right person. And that she's not trying to maybe accomplish something else by being there for him right now.
[00:18:23] Jordan Harbinger: Like trying to rewrite the past, you mean?
[00:18:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, maybe, maybe.
[00:18:27] Jordan Harbinger: Or who knows, maybe trying to make herself feel better in some way?
[00:18:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that, but that is another good point. Her compassion might be so great. that she actually feels guilty for not reaching out while he's going through this.
[00:18:40] Jordan Harbinger: I think that's probably true. Yeah.
[00:18:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: But that doesn't mean that she's not compassionate. That doesn't mean she's doing something wrong. It just means that she's being appropriate and responsible. She can wish him well from afar and still know that that is not a door she should open.
[00:18:55] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. I mean, look, if her ex reached out to her in a year, two years, if he wrote her a letter and he's like, "This horrible thing happened to me, it made me realize I was a total monster, I've gone to therapy, I've done serious work on myself, I'd like to apologize to you for what I did, I'd like to talk if you're open to that," maybe I would say, okay, he might deserve a little empathy, might.
[00:19:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right, but even then, I think I would still caution her about seeing him again, given their past.
[00:19:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, oh, same here. I hope this guy grows from this, I really do, but at this point, they're on different paths.
[00:19:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:28] Jordan Harbinger: The pain he put her through whether he becomes a better person or not, I don't know if they ever really need to talk. He would have to be a completely different person, and she would have to have a good reason herself for talking to him, like if it would help her heal in some way, but I don't know.
[00:19:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: But she's done that work on her own, and they're not even close to that, so—
[00:19:50] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. And definitely not, he has not done it, right? He's still lying in the hospital trying to figure out how he got there. She doesn't know whether this is a safe, healthy person to be talking to. I mean, the dude literally can't even, he's in the throes of the aftermath of this thing. He just cheated on that other girl. He hasn't done any work.
[00:20:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: So, I'm with Jordan. No, it's not worth the risk of inviting chaos back into your life. You've done truly extraordinary work since this breakup. You've used this trauma to become a stronger person, a smarter person. Why go back there, you know? Just keep moving forward and thank yourself for not staying with this guy any longer than you did because look at the kind of stuff that might have happened if you did.
[00:20:26] Jordan Harbinger: Seriously, who knows? She might have been the one to hit him with her car.
[00:20:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, somehow I don't think our friend has that in her, but you know, in another universe.
[00:20:34] Jordan Harbinger: You know, this guy was cheating on her with other people, right?
[00:20:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:37] Jordan Harbinger: Including people like this other woman, potentially. And this woman could hit both of them with her car in a different scenario.
[00:20:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a good point.
[00:20:45] Jordan Harbinger: You know what I mean? This isn't a person who was like making a calculated decision to only go after this guy in that particular way. She was just blind with rage and she tried to kill him.
[00:20:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Such a good point. Being involved with people like this just invites disaster—
[00:20:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yes.
[00:20:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: —on some level.
[00:20:58] Jordan Harbinger: It does.
[00:20:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is very interesting.
[00:21:00] Jordan Harbinger: It is. You hear about stuff like this all the time, like a normal nice girl meets a guy, he's a drug dealer, and they both get shot because somebody breaks into his house and they're hanging out there. And it's like, "How did she get mixed up in all this?" "This is how.
[00:21:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:11] Jordan Harbinger: You get mixed up with a bad person and you think, oh, it's fine, he won't hurt me. Well, what about the other people trying to hurt him? I mean, you just don't think about it. Because you're not in that pain, in their mess. So yeah, it's fascinating. Man, it really makes you think about how people can unconsciously attract terrible things into their lives. And I know that word is usually very woo-woo. I don't mean like metaphysically the universe is blah, blah, blah.
[00:21:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.
[00:21:32] Jordan Harbinger: But you hear a story like this. And you realize, man, little tiny decisions and personality tidbits and all that stuff adds up to consequences that can be very real. I mean, this guy chose a partner who's possibly slash probably a little questionable, right? I mean, he treated her horribly and then she just tried to kill him. And that's just one reason why you don't want to be anywhere near people who are severely unhealthy, abusive, out of control. Because you could easily experience some blow back yourself, even if you're not the one who is instigating.
[00:22:01] So kudos to you for how far you've come for being highly empathetic. But yeah, stay away from this guy, man. He's on his own journey, hopefully, with therapy, physical and emotional and recovery. And I guess I hope he walks again, but mostly I hope he learns to process and make sense of his trauma in a way that makes him a better human being. That's why he had to go through this, unfortunately. But that is not your concern. Your concern is to continue building an amazing life without him. Sending you a hug and wishing you all the best.
[00:22:33] You know who won't try to hit you in the knees or the wallet, Gabriel? The amazing sponsors that support this show, such as rubber mallet depot. We'll be right back.
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[00:24:39] Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. All of your support keeps us going. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are in one place, jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chabot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
[00:24:57] Now, back to Feedback Friday.
[00:25:01] Okay, what's next?
[00:25:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 29 years old, I'm a PhD student at one of the top universities in the country, and I'm single. I often struggle to connect with people socially and form long term relationships, and not just romantic ones. If you ever met me, I don't think it would be immediately noticeable. I'm honest and curious, and I love to get to know people if I get the chance. But lately, I've started to feel more and more lonely, and I'd like to learn how to improve and change that.
[00:25:31] Jordan Harbinger: Awesome. Great mindset, man. I love the self-awareness and the openness.
[00:25:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I've been at this university for a few years now, and I formed a small group of guy friends. Then new people joined the group, and one of them in particular keeps giving me a hard time for being single. Over time, this has become a regular conversation, with almost everyone pulling my leg on the matter. As you can imagine, this hit a sore spot. I often feel annoyed by this person, and a mix of negative emotions about the situation in general. I also recently learned that these friends started their own group chat without me. I wasn't happy about this, but didn't express my feelings because, frankly, I thought they didn't care. More recently, they asked me to join a group trip in a couple of months, and I said I would love to. Thank you. But as soon as I said that, I started having second thoughts. All of this has made me question whether these are my true friends. I now don't feel comfortable sharing what I feel and I can't confide in them when I'm having challenges during my tough PhD journey. Should I continue hanging out with these guys? Or is there no hope here and I need to cut ties? And did I do something wrong in maintaining these friendships? Signed, Low Key Feeling Dopey For Putting Up With These Broskies.
[00:26:41] Jordan Harbinger: Right, well, these are very good questions and big questions. And like I said, I really admire you for being willing to ask them. I hear that you want to get better at relating to people. You want to make sure you're picking the right friends, and that curiosity is serving you very well.
[00:26:54] So candidly, I don't know exactly what these guys think of you, but we have some clues. On the one hand, they're teasing you for being single, which kind of sucks. And there's one guy in particular who's taking it a little far. He's not being very thoughtful about how it lands with you. On the other hand, we all know that guys, generally speaking, not always the most thoughtful, right? Not always the most attuned, especially in their 20s, especially in a collegiate setting, especially to one another. I don't know a lot of 20-something guys going around thinking, "I wonder how that roast in the group chat landed with Chad. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings." I mean, I'm in my 40s, and I still miss those cues sometimes.
[00:27:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right, I mean, these guys might think of this as being, like, funny and playful.
[00:27:36] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: But he's sitting there quietly like, "I don't know, I don't know, that kind of hurts," but he doesn't want to say anything.
[00:27:41] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. It doesn't necessarily make it okay, but it might not be as overtly malicious as it seems. It's possible they just have zero idea that they're being hurtful. And they think they're ribbing him. Also, they invited him on a big trip.
[00:27:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:55] Jordan Harbinger: When you're in a friend group and one person sucks, you don't invite that guy along at all. Most people slowly pull away or they plan the trip on the download and they don't post the pictures to Instagram. So that's another point for me in the, these guys aren't monsters. They do like them. They just don't realize how they come across, kind of column.
[00:28:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think that's very possible and it might be easy for them to miss because our friend here is not the most transparent person, right?
[00:28:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, he's an internal dude. I get the sense he isn't always the easiest to access, maybe.
[00:28:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's annoyed by this one guy in particular. He feels negatively about the situation in general, but he hasn't told them that. And then, I found it interesting when he mentioned the group chat thing. So they started some group chat without him, which he was not happy about, but he didn't express his feelings because in his words, "Frankly, I thought they didn't care," which is actually a really sad thing to say. I don't know. I think that's very telling.
[00:28:46] Jordan Harbinger: Definitely. That's another interesting detail. We should probably come back to that.
[00:28:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, he doesn't feel comfortable sharing what he feels or how his program is going with these guys. So, you're right. There's a lot going on with our boy here. He has a very rich inner life. He's in touch with a lot of feelings, which is great. But he doesn't share those feelings very easily, and it's interesting because at first his letter was about feeling lonely and wanting to get better at forming relationships, romantic ones, platonic ones, but then his question actually turned out to be, "Are these guys really my friends? You know, did I do something wrong by staying close with them?"
[00:29:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that is interesting, but those two things are related, I think.
[00:29:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Because he wants to connect with people better, he wants to have more fulfilling relationships, and one big key would be to look at this tendency to censor himself, to not speak up when something bothers him, you know, to not share with his friends how he really feels. I think that's the quality that connects these two challenges that he's dealing with.
[00:29:41] Jordan Harbinger: Right, I think he's probably self protecting to some degree.
[00:29:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.
[00:29:44] Jordan Harbinger: And also, speaking up when something doesn't sit right with you. That's a vulnerable thing to do. That's a little scary. I get that. So here's an idea. It's a little exercise. I think it'll be great practice for you. And it's going to tell you a lot about whether these guys are truly your friends. The next time that guy teases you about being single, or any of these friends do it for that matter, I want you to try saying something like, "All right, I'm chronically single. We all know this, ha. But can I be honest? It kind of hurts when you make fun of me for that. Because it's actually something I want to get better at. I'm trying to work on it. It's a little bit of a sore spot. The jokes are starting to feel a little mean spirited, maybe a little intense." And listen, I'm sure saying something like that to your friends, it feels kind of daunting, but that is why I want you to try it.
[00:30:28] Because if these guys hear that and they go, "Oh dude, sorry, we had no idea. We were just joking around. We won't do it anymore. We got to lay off. That's a good point." That's a good sign. That could change the whole tone of your friendship. And it could make them see you in a new way. You speaking up, that might give them the information they need to know how to treat you. But if they hear that and they go, "Oh dude, chill, we're just making fun of you cause you have no game and that's just who you are, you're going to be single forever." Then I'd say, okay, maybe these guys are not necessarily the right friends for you. I mean, still, they could mishandle this and be perfectly nice guys, but you know, that's more evidence. Maybe don't go on a trip with a bunch of guys who don't take you seriously and build you up and are constantly tearing you down if it really is that bad. But you won't really know unless you take a chance and you say something.
[00:31:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally agree. Also, this will be a great way to learn how to have these conversations in general. Even if these guys turn out to be kind of lame, this is a skill that will come in handy in all of your relationships.
[00:31:25] Jordan, I'm still thinking about that detail we touched on earlier, how when they started the group chat without him, he didn't speak up because he thinks they didn't care. I also found that super interesting because look, one of two things is possible there. Either he's right, they really don't care, which means that I don't think that they're the right friends for him.
[00:31:41] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or he's wrong. They do care, but he just assumes that they don't. And his assuming that other people don't really care about him, which is probably a very old and fundamental belief of his, that belief is probably determining the tone of a lot of his friendships.
[00:31:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, exactly. And not just these friendships, but probably a lot of his experiences in life.
[00:32:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: We tend to settle for the relationships we feel we deserve, right? So when we ignore certain signals from people, or we don't speak up when something bothers us, or we assume that the other person just isn't interested in understanding us, or, you know, they don't care, or whatever, we can end up in dynamics that feel like this, that feel unsatisfying or unfair.
[00:32:26] Jordan Harbinger: Right, and we help create those dynamics.
[00:32:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly, by choosing people who treat us a certain way and then sometimes also allowing them to continue doing that. And I think that's what our friend here is starting to confront. And the conversation that you just pitched a moment ago would be one way for him to start rewriting that dynamic. Now, TBD on whether these guys are interested in rewriting it with him—
[00:32:47] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: But sometimes, you know, it just takes a shift on one person's part.
[00:32:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Look, I like that he's doing this. I think he can because he's genuinely eager to get better at this.
[00:32:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: For sure.
[00:32:56] Jordan Harbinger: So. no, you did nothing wrong in maintaining these friendships. You need friends. These guys seem promising. Maybe they really are cool, but you're also evolving. You're more in touch with your needs and your feelings now, and that's making you see these situations more clearly. So rather than beat yourself up about being friends with the wrong people or not, I'd give yourself credit for getting to this point. I wouldn't write these guys off immediately without showing up in a more authentic way, but I also wouldn't stick around if they don't respond well to you showing up in that new way. Or you stick with the one or two who do, and you just move on from the rest. It's a big part of your 20s, man, narrowing your inner circle to the people who are on the same page as you. And you got this, man. Good luck.
[00:33:36] You can reach us firstname.lastname@example.org. Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier. If your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbor's eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or as schizophrenic, possibly psychopathic guys, harassing you and your neighbors, those poor people from last week, Gabe.
[00:33:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.
[00:33:53] Jordan Harbinger: Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up email@example.com. We're here to help. And we keep every email anonymous.
[00:34:01] Okay. Next up.
[00:34:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, guys. I'm fairly young in my profession, but I've been told multiple times by my boss, my supervisor and other higher ups that I do a great job. I was recently asked to be in an interim high-up position at my workplace, which is my dream job. When the position opened, my boss said, "It's something I want you to think about." That's a direct quote.
[00:34:23] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: I took this as a sign that I should apply, but when the time came, I wasn't even interviewed for the position. I was kept in the dark until I was asked to train the new person in the role since I knew how to do the job so well. I took this as a huge insult to my abilities and knowledge. I also wasn't paid any extra for all of this advanced work I took on when the real position pays nearly double my current salary. I requested a meeting with my boss and she said that she thought it was great that I want to advance, but that I just haven't, quote-unquote, "suffered enough" to be in a position of power since I'm so new in my career.
[00:35:03] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, yeah, that is super lame. If that's actually true, then your boss is valuing a quality that has no bearing on whether you'd be good for the position. It's just this subjective. "You have to pay your dues and be miserable for X amount of time before you can rise up." Is that even a metric? That's different from saying you don't have enough experience or you need a few more years to learn how to manage people or whatever. Having suffered is not a credential. Again, how do you measure that? Being wiser, being more experienced, those are meaningful qualifications, but they don't necessarily need to come through suffering.
[00:35:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.
[00:35:37] Jordan Harbinger: Now, if what she's saying isn't true, then she's just not being honest with you about why you didn't get the job. And she's depriving you of the feedback you need to become a great candidate. Either way, not something a good boss would say, in my opinion, carry on Gabe.
[00:35:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: She also said that I am so good at my current position, and she can't lose me.
[00:35:57] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, there it is. So she doesn't want to promote you because she doesn't want to lose a great employee. She's actually just being self interested. Strike two.
[00:36:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I asked her to clarify, and she said I needed to experience things such as staff turnover and or layoffs, in depth hiring processes, and what she said I needed most to advance. A doctorate, so I could experience the hardship and suffering of a dissertation.
[00:36:22] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh, again, she's not saying go get a PhD because we need that level of expertise around here. She's saying, "Go get your doctorate so you can struggle enough for me to take you seriously because that's what I did."
[00:36:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, I don't understand what good is watching people leave or get fired going to do for him.
[00:36:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.
[00:36:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't, I'm not understanding something.
[00:36:42] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, unless they actually work in HR and seeing those things as a direct part of the job. But if she just means you need to see more drama at this company before you're ready, then that's just BS.
[00:36:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.
[00:36:52] Jordan Harbinger: This lady's grinding my damn gears right now.
[00:36:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: The position clearly states that only a master's degree is needed and doesn't even mention that a doctorate is preferred. Also every other person in the same role also only has a master's degree and a couple have less work experience than I do.
[00:37:09] Jordan Harbinger: Great. So that's just a total lie slash something she made up on her own. Strike three. This is a terrible boss so far.
[00:37:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: She also mentioned that I should do certain trainings, attend conferences, and join boards of directors. Many of these opportunities appear to be rather costly. And I'm still working on paying off student loans, so taking on more debt just so I can move up does not seem wise to me.
[00:37:32] Jordan Harbinger: Well, okay, I'm all for investing in yourself and getting more involved in things, but you don't embark on a six year PhD to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars because one person at one company invented this requirement out of thin air and for dumb reasons. You do it because you have something concrete to learn if it would actually increase your earning power. If you're actually passionate about it. Okay, fine. I'm just baffled by this boss.
[00:37:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: The person she ended up hiring did have a doctorate degree, although two other candidates without a doctorate made it to the final round. The kicker is that the person she hired has zero experience in this field, although they do have ten years more experience than I do. I am now worried about my future here. I don't want to be stuck in my current role for long as I'm not challenged and can take on more complex duties. I've been considering applying elsewhere because of how angry the situation has made me, but I'm conflicted as I do enjoy my work. Will I continue being blocked from advancement? Am I not being respected? Will leaving this company be like starting all over again and undoing some of the great headway I've made at this company? Signed, Puzzling Over This Reshuffling, and Wondering if I'm Sputtering When I Haven't Racked Up Enough Suffering.
[00:38:44] Jordan Harbinger: Well, just to jump right in, I'm not crazy about this situation. I think there are a few red flags here. You're smart to be paying attention to them. It can be easy to discount this stuff and then five years go by and you're still in the same place. So I admire your ambition. I admire your honesty. A couple thoughts for you.
[00:39:00] First, it doesn't sound like your boss has your best interests at heart at all. She's more interested in keeping you where you are because it benefits her. Unfortunately, that's very common in corporate life. It's not new. That's why you're smart to be going, "Okay, do I really want to stick around here?" If this person isn't going to champion you, or at least give you the freedom to move up elsewhere, then you need to look out for yourself.
[00:39:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Although, I'm a little confused though, because his boss did say that she wanted him to consider applying for the job. So was she just messing with him? I am confused.
[00:39:32] Jordan Harbinger: That actually brings me to the second thing, which is, I love that they put you into that interim higher up position, and I'm sure you did well. Well enough to train the next person anyway. But it doesn't sound like you have enough data to really know how well you performed there. Maybe you crushed it. Or maybe you weren't quite what they needed in that role. Or maybe you were solid, but just need more experience to really thrive there. And your boss's word for that is suffering. And she's just crap at articulating what she actually wants, or she doesn't necessarily have the ability to put her finger on it. So she's labeling it something else. To me, the biggest concern here, isn't that you weren't paid extra or interviewed for the role. It's that they're not even giving you the data that you need to work on yourself.
[00:40:14] Now, if your boss had said, "Look, I know you want that job. You did well, but you have a few things to learn. You need to see some more situations around here. You need to be more connected in the industry. You need to develop X, Y, Z qualities. Here's how you can do that specifically." Okay, then I would actually be encouraged, because that's how you show respect to an employee, by giving them the gift of meaningful feedback. And bosses don't give meaningful feedback to people they don't want to see rise up. It's too much work. So, not getting a promotion, it's not always bad. What matters is how a boss communicates that decision to you, how they invest in you. And yeah, she did say, do these trainings, join some boards, go get your PhD, so that's something I guess? It's a little nebulous.
[00:40:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:58] Jordan Harbinger: And with the PhD specifically, frankly, it sounds reckless and ultimately irrelevant.
[00:41:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:04] Jordan Harbinger: So are you not being respected? Well, potentially. If your boss isn't giving you the information you need to be a great candidate, although respect is kind of a squishy concept, that can sometimes be a little bit more about ego probably than anything else, I would frame it more like, "Am I being taken seriously? Am I being valued? Do these people genuinely want me to succeed?" Those questions will get you better answers.
[00:41:31] So here's my advice. Go get the feedback you need. Ask your boss directly and other senior people at your company what you need to do to rise up there. Ask them how much experience matters at this place. What this whole suffering concept is about. See how they respond. If they hit you again with the PhD thing, if they give you more vague, like, "Oh, go do some training and see some more layoffs," if they give you that nonsense again, then that's probably a sign that this company is, I don't know, lame or you just don't have the support you need there. And if they really engage with you. If you can put together a solid road map of milestones and experiences and trainings to hit in a way that will allow you to really grow, then I think you can feel more secure about sticking around.
[00:42:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed completely, but if they don't engage with you like that, then you need to ask yourself, "Why am I not taken seriously here?"
[00:42:19] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's possible that your boss really is just being selfish and keeping you where you're most useful to her, but it's also possible that you're not earning her support for some other reason that you're not aware of. Maybe you really do need more experience. You did say that you're young. There is something to be said for being a little bit older, having more maturity, because you've just seen more things. Or maybe your relationships at this company are not quite as strong as they should be. Or you're sending certain signals of your own and you're not realizing it. Like, for example, again, this need to be respected. \
[00:42:49] There's also this other thing you mentioned that you felt like being passed over was an insult to your abilities and your knowledge, which I can sort of understand, but interpreting this turn of events as a slap in the face, as opposed to, you know, an opportunity to figure out why it didn't work out, that might also be sending your boss a signal that you don't intend.
[00:43:10] Jordan Harbinger: You mean like he's a little bitter or he has a little bit of entitlement about not being treated a certain way or something like that?
[00:43:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Something like that. And I think that's up to him to decide. He knows himself best. But, look, you're not wrong to feel frustrated. You're not wrong to be disappointed. You're confused. I mean, all of that is fair. But these are a few other things that I would definitely take a look at before you decide whether to jump ship.
[00:43:32] Jordan Harbinger: I totally agree, Gabe. If he answers those questions honestly, ideally with some good feedback from the people around him—
[00:43:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:39] Jordan Harbinger: —then I think he'll have a good sense of whether he's being truly blocked, or whether he just needs to grow a little more and try again. And that is totally fair. But listen, if you do decide that you need to leave in order to advance, Don't be too afraid about starting over. That fear is never as real as it seems. We never really truly start over after a transition. We carry over all the assets we developed, knowledge, relationships, skills, experience, including the experience of being blocked and frustrated. That's valuable too. I know a lot of people are like, "It's a different industry, it's a different place, none of my stuff applies." It's just never true.
[00:44:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. There's a difference between starting over and turning over a new leaf.
[00:44:14] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. I would also check out a couple of articles we did on this topic. One is about the best way to land a promotion. The other is called signs you're not well liked at work and what to do about it. Not saying you're not well liked. I'm sure you're awesome. But some of the ideas in there will help you diagnose what's really going on. Link to both of those articles in the show notes for you.
[00:44:33] So go do some homework, treat this as an opportunity to learn, which you might as well, since it's happening, whether you like it or not. And then if you do jump ship, you'll do it with full confidence that it's the right move. So good luck.
[00:44:45] You know what your cagey, self-interested, PhD obsessed boss doesn't deserve? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
[00:44:55] This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. You're in the thick of festive season, hanging lights, blasting holiday hits, but let's not gloss over the elephant in the room. Sometimes the holiday spirit feels more like a ghost. One day, you're a regular Santa Claus, handing out holiday cheer like it's going on a style. The next, you're eyeing the eggnog like it's your only friend at a party where you don't know anyone. Here's where BetterHelp steps in, like your personal elf for mental health. Connect with your therapist in your comfiest, ugly Christmas sweater. No need to brave the winter wonderland outside. BetterHelp brings the therapy to you, digital style. BetterHelp therapists are ready to lend an ear, whether you've been naughty, nice, or a little bit of both. The setup is a breeze. Zip through a short quiz. Get matched with a therapist that clicks with you. And if the fit isn't snugger than a reindeer harness, switch it up at no extra charge. So let's keep those bells jingling all the way to a happier holiday.
[00:45:40] Jen Harbinger: Find your bright spot this season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan to get 10 percent off your first month. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.
[00:45:50] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is sponsored in part by The China Show. Have you ever checked out The China Show on YouTube yet? It's fascinating. It's got my two friends and I've actually lived in China for years. They dive deep into the intricacies of China's culture, politics, and society. I like their newest episode, as of right now, on Xi Jinping's visit to San Francisco and why some people in China are mad that they have to play nice with the West now. They also talk about China's EV industry, the crazy floods and other events and disasters over in China. There's even something lately about Chinese people eating rocks, and I thought that sounded like BS until I saw people eating rocks. Anyway, the way they break down complex topics and present them in such an engaging format. It's impressive. Each episode offers a new perspective, shedding light on aspects of China that you might not have considered before. Whether you're into geopolitics, culture, or you just love learning about different parts of the world, The China Show has something to offer. It's the kind of content that makes you think and gives you a better understanding of a major global player. Definitely worth watching. And it's got Laowhy, who's been on the show. Winston, who's been on the show. You're going to love it. Go to YouTube, check out The China Show.
[00:46:53] If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all in one place, jordanharbinger.com/deals, or email me firstname.lastname@example.org. It's really important to use these codes. So if you're like too lazy or bot's not searching it for you, or you can't find it on the page, just email me. I will help you figure out what the product is. Dig it up for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. It really does keep us going and make it possible for us to continue creating shows like this every single week.
[00:47:26] All right, now back to Feedback Friday.
[00:47:30] Okay, next up.
[00:47:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I recently moved from working in a bedside nursing position to a process development/educational role after going to grad school and discovering a new passion for nursing informatics, basically, the integration of technology with patient care. It's a very exciting field and the possibilities are endless. While I'm very excited about this new career path, I'm nervous about the fact that it's a complete change in every way. After 13 years of being in the trenches, working as a critical care and rapid response nurse during the intensity of the pandemic, exhausting myself working 12 to 16 hour shifts day and night, these things become a badge of honor. Now, I'm looking at a nine-to-five-type position that will not take everything out of me and that will give me less reason to feel like I've earned my downtime. I'm also giving up the immediate gratification of hands on care. Right now, I come in, I fix problems. I make my patients feel comfortable and then I leave knowing that I accomplished a set of tasks and made someone's day tangibly better. Informatics is not a world of immediate gratification and takes away the everyday meaning of my work in that regard. My identity has been the badass hardworking nurse for so long that I don't know how to be a different kind of person. The enormity of it all is throwing me for a loop. How do I move from the highs and lows of these crazy, all consuming shifts to a steadier pace? And how do I find satisfaction in my new line of work? Signed, Saying Goodbye to the Highs and Lows While Becoming a Data Nerd Who Goes With The Flow.
[00:49:06] Jordan Harbinger: Well, first of all, congrats on carving out this awesome new career. You're so passionate about nursing informatics. I love that you're fired up about that. I love that it's going to give you a much needed change of pace plus an actual life of your own. Amazing. So what you're struggling with is interesting and it's something that anyone who makes a big career transition deals with. Especially from a super intense line of work, like law enforcement, emergency services, finance, anything really.
[00:49:34] There's just a few layers to this transition, and the first one is just the mental, emotional aspects of this new role. It sounds to me like you've been working super hard for a long time, you've been running on adrenaline, on pure willpower. Being a rapid response nurse during the pandemic. That's no joke. So moving into this behind the scenes role, it's going to be a huge shift and you might feel like you're not as stimulated or fulfilled in a certain way. But I actually don't think that's a bad thing. Because your body and your mind have probably been through a lot for so many years. You might sort of be detoxing from those adrenaline dumps and late nights and that trench warfare mentality.
[00:50:15] So if you miss it, on one level, that might just be your body going, "Wait, am I not getting that constant epinephrine anymore?" Your brain might be going, "Wait, I don't have to operate in crisis mode all the time," but you probably need that. It's probably really important.
[00:50:28] The second layer to this is the whole meaning thing. And this I really get it. You thrived as a nurse because you found taking care of people and making their day better. You found that fulfilling, which is amazing. You're exactly the kind of person who should be in healthcare. And now, you're shifting to a new role, a new sector. Where the meaning you derive, it's still there, but you're a few steps removed. It's a little more abstract. So part of this transition is embracing that new source of meaning and just letting go of the old one. You might not get that immediate hit of gratification in this new job. And by the way, Getting that hit of immediate gratification that might also be another, quote-unquote, "drug" you'll have to recover from. It's not all bad but it can be addictive but in this new role, you'll have an opportunity to experience new sources of meaning I would imagine.
[00:51:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. And not just new sources of meaning but also new rhythms of meaning In your old role, the rhythm was constant relentless. It was quick In this new role, the rhythm might be more spaced out, more prolonged, probably a lot calmer, but to Jordan's point, that is not a bad thing. You know, you might work on a project in nursing informatics for, I don't know, six months, nine months, and at the end of that time, you'll have a whole new AI/data analytics program put in place and tens of thousands, if not more, patients lives will be improved as a result. You know, you might not have eased somebody's pain right then and there in the moment, but you'll have contributed to even more people's health over a much longer period of time. And even if you're not looking right at them, I really do think you're going to feel that. So I would trust that you're going to find a gratification in this new role that is different. Yes, but just as meaningful. And I think over time, possibly even more meaningful.
[00:52:13] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. And she can also create that meaning, by appreciating the impact nursing informatics has on so many people.
[00:52:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I think creating that meaning is also part of her onboarding process and settling into this new role. The other layer though we have to talk about is the identity piece. You know, like you said, you've been this badass, hardworking nurse for so long, you don't know how to be a different kind of professional. That's another thing that you're going to have to let go of, the image you have of yourself as one kind of professional and what that identity gave you. It sounds to me like being strong and tireless and very effective, that gave you a lot. It gave you a sense of power, it gave you a sense of usefulness, of importance, and maybe also a sense of control in what I imagine is a very chaotic field. And all of that is so meaningful and it's totally legit. But when you develop a sense of self based on certain qualities and then you switch fields that has different qualities, You have to find new ones, or you have to be less attached to the old ones.
[00:53:13] So in this new role, I bet you're going to develop a lot of new aspects of your identity. There's going to be new insight, you're going to be a stronger leader, you're going to get to flex your intelligence, your creativity, your ability to work on processes. You're also going to be getting to educate other people and all of that will also be fulfilling in ways that again, you can't even imagine yet.
[00:53:34] So look, if you miss your old job for the first few months, I wouldn't panic about it. It doesn't mean you made the wrong decision. Like Jordan said, it'll take you a little time to transition and that's normal. You kind of have to mourn the old job, the old meaning, the old identity to make room for all of the new ones. So I would give yourself some time and space to do that too.
[00:53:54] Jordan Harbinger: Which sounds like she's going to have so much more of time and space. I mean, that's what I'm excited about for her. She's actually going to have a life.
[00:54:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.
[00:54:00] Jordan Harbinger: The way she fills all those hours she never had before is going to be super meaningful too. Meaning doesn't only have to come from work.
[00:54:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:07] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm excited for you. Like I said, I'm super proud of you for going back to school and making the transition. I know your passion for the field is going to help take you to some great places, and it's probably going to add some years back to your life and actually let you enjoy that life. So good luck.
[00:54:22] All right. Before we sign off here, and sorry to bring the house down a little bit, but I really wanted to talk about this. As you might have read in the news a few weeks ago, a woman named Samantha Woll was found dead in Lafayette Park, which is just east of downtown Detroit, not too far from where I grew up. She was the president of a synagogue, and that's probably what's ringing some bells for you right now. She worked in politics before that. She was also a really good close friend of mine in college.
[00:54:49] So apparently, she attended a wedding and then she was just stabbed inside her home that night, wandered outside, and essentially died in front of her home. Obviously, I was stunned to read this and incredibly saddened. It's just beyond tragic. I have very warm memories of Samantha. She was an incredibly compassionate person. She actually made me think about life in a more compassionate way without ever being judgy or sanctimonious.
[00:55:14] I remember once, we went on this trip to Washington, DC. And Samantha, she bought a huge bag of candy for the trip and she shared it with everybody and then she goes, "Don't eat it all. I want to save most of this for any homeless people that we meet." I've never heard anything like this in my life at that point, right? This young person spent her own money in college when we were all broke as hell in the first place. We were probably like 19 years old. Knowing people in need would ask her for money or food and she didn't want to walk around empty handed. That is the kind of person that she was. Just a very kind and thoughtful soul in this very basic way.
[00:55:50] So, yeah, I'm thinking about her and her family today. As members of the tribe like to say, may her memory be a blessing. And I know my memories of her are very special. And I know she'll be missed by a lot.
[00:56:03] And on that note, it's Thanksgiving weekend here in the States, and traditionally, this is a moment to reflect on the things we are grateful for, and I know that is a weird pivot from that incredibly dark story, I realize that. But I wanted to say something about Thanksgiving, and I didn't want to sound super cheesy or preachy, it's not really my style, as you guys know, but gratitude is a theme here on the show. It's a very practical way and it's just such a dark time in the world obviously in big ways with what's happening in Israel and Gaza right now and in ways closer to home like with Samantha. And so I guess I find myself wanting to say that it can be really hard to be grateful when things are chaotic, when there's war and there's death and there's tragedy and dysfunction all around us. And I don't really believe in being Pollyanna-ish and burying my head in the sand under the guise of, you know, like, being grateful, man.
[00:56:56] But it seems to me that our job, always, but especially these days, is to make space for both. To recognize that there is real pain and darkness in the world. And, there's a lot to be grateful for. For my part, I'm grateful to do this show, to be a part of your lives, to interview fascinating people, to become a little smarter, a little more informed every week, and to do all of that with my amazing friends and family, my team, my wife, my kids, my peers, my parents who actually just moved across the street for me to be closer to us. I really am very fortunate.
[00:57:32] And I'm especially grateful for you, all of you who listen and write in with your stories and your responses and even your criticism, none of this would be possible without you. So thank you very much. Honestly, I don't have anything super profound to say about this. I guess that's kind of the point. I just wanted to take a moment to take stock of all the good and invite you to do the same, because it can be really hard to do that sometimes.
[00:57:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:55] Jordan Harbinger: And if you don't have some of these things that can be hard. But then the question I like to ask is, what do I have? What is going well? Even if it's one thing, one person, and spend some time appreciating that. Because there's something about the human mind that wants to fixate on what we don't have. What is going wrong? And that's why a little gratitude really does go a long way.
[00:58:19] And on a practical level, if you want to make some changes in your life, which is what Feedback Friday is all about, it's impossible to build on what we don't have. We can only build on what we do have, even if it's not everything that we want. All of us, even if you're struggling right now, you've got something — relationships, opportunities, advantages, skills, experiences. So let's take stock of that, and start from there.
[00:58:47] All right. I maybe sounded a little cheesy/preachy there. Sorry about that. I really do believe this though.
[00:58:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: I liked it.
[00:58:53] Jordan Harbinger: So, I'm going to take that into my weekend. I hope you do too, whether you're celebrating Thanksgiving or not. Shout out to the Canadians who like do it two weeks earlier for whatever reason. I appreciate you guys sending you all a big hug and we'll see you next week.
[00:59:06] Hope you all enjoyed that. Don't forget to check out the episodes with Chris DeArmitt on plastics and the new remix mashup of our previous episode with Mosab Hassan Yousef from three years ago. Definitely check those out if you haven't done so yet.
[00:59:17] The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm grateful for that as well. Our Six-Minute Networking course is free. There's no catch. It's not gross or schmoozy. It is not going to make you cringe. It's all free on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. I want you to dig the well before you get thirsty. Build those relationships before you need them. I get a decent amount of emails from people saying, "So I don't need to network. I'm a teacher, I'm in the military, I got a government employee job, I'm a stay-at-home parent." But an elementary school teacher recently wrote me saying, "They are so wrong! I've gotten students for private lessons, summer jobs, tutoring, I've also gotten the down low on new job openings that would be opening in my district, and hooked up very casual acquaintances with similar opportunities with tons of free teaching materials. I cannot stress how important networking is for a teacher," and that is a direct quote. This stuff really does work for anyone in any field who wants to be more connected and generate more opportunities all around. So come check it out, jordanharbinger.com/course.
[01:00:15] And the newsletter of course, as well, jordanharbinger.com/news. We go over an old episode and rip out the takeaways and deliver them to your inbox, jordanharbinger.com/news. Show notes and transcripts are on the website. Advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi or on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.
[01:00:41] This show is created in association with PodcasOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.
[01:01:12] You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show on how to hardwire happiness.
[01:01:17] Rick Hanson: I focus on growing resources in the mind. That's what resilience fundamentally is to maintain an equilibrium, to be regulated internally in the pursuit of important goals while being challenged. We remember negative interactions with other people more than positive ones. We remember negative gossip about celebrities more than good news. We are much more rapidly trained into helplessness from a few experiences of futility and defeat. Negative emotional experiences have a toxic effect on the brain.
[01:01:51] They accumulate over time, but do they invade your mind? Do they invade the inner temple of the core of you? And if they do invade you, do they occupy you? Do they remain?
[01:02:04] Don't feed the beast. Quit ruminating about it. Quit obsessing about it. Quit looping on those laps around the track and hell, dig in that track a little deeper every single time. You can't do anything about the past, even the present is what it is. But moving into the future, you can always grow the good inside yourself. You can always become a little stronger, a little smarter, a little more skillful, a little happier, a little more loving each hour and each day. And that is within our power. No one can stop us from doing that. No one can stop us from growing from our experiences and no one can do it for us.
[01:02:39] To me, it's one of the most honorable, self-reliant, even heroic things a person can do. What you can count on is what's inside you.
[01:02:46] Jordan Harbinger: To learn how you can build more resilience, check out episode 192 of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Rick Hanson.
[01:02:54] This episode is sponsored in part by Podurama. Listen to podcasts everywhere you go with Podurama's seamless sync across web, mobile, and desktop. If you don't know where to start, Podurama's AI can make recommendations for your unique taste or ask the AI chatbot for hidden gems. You can also listen to 30 second trailers for a sneak peek into an episode. What's great is if something caught your attention during an episode, you can bookmark the timestamp and take notes within the app. That's kind of neat. Create multiple playlists, whether you're looking to elevate your finances, progress your career, or make your daily commute a bit more enlightening. I curated a public playlist featuring my favorite episodes, well, some of my favorite episodes from The Jordan Harbinger Show. It's a little starter pack there for you. Check out the link in the show notes. You can curate a public playlist of your favorite episodes as well and share your audio gems on social media. Download the Podurama app, spelled P-O-D-U-R-A-M-A.
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