1055: Is Nephew Forever Lost for Denying Holocaust? | Feedback Friday

1055: Is Nephew Forever Lost for Denying Holocaust? | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback. Friday producer who's rocking, what do you get? The black nails going on. Is that black? You going goth? You saw that?

[00:00:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-Hmm. I'm glad you noticed that. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Goes to Burning Man. Once goes to Burning Man once comes back as Eilish.

That's right. I look like the long lost member of Panic at the disco or something. Yeah.

[00:00:25] Jordan Harbinger: Is this, are you trying to complicate the cliche or Oh

[00:00:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah. Way to make it about you and all of the roasts that you've Mm-Hmm. Sent my way for the last year. I always wanted to try it. I have a friend, a really good friend who does it, and he said it's really funny.

People come up to him and talk to him, and it's like a laugh,

[00:00:40] Crosstalk: like, Hey, do you like Slipknot? Uh, that's actually not the question he gets. It's usually more like, uh, where's your boyfriend? Oh, yeah,

[00:00:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: burning Man gave me an excuse to try something weird. So I came home and I was like, I'm gonna try a weird thing that I've always wanted to try and never had the courage to do.

[00:00:58] Jordan Harbinger: Speaking of Weird on the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from arms dealers to undercover agents, gold smugglers, national security advisors, or astronauts. This week we had my friend Renee Dur Resta, author of Invisible Rulers. Her book is about audience capture and why a lot of social media accounts, celebrities and other people are spreading tons of misinformation.

Kind of relevant with the whole, like, Hey, Russia was paying all these influencers to do stuff. I mean, that's more direct, but it's exactly what her book and what our conversation was essentially about. Super interesting conversation with Renee. She's been on the show before. We also had a skeptical Sunday, last Sunday on generic versus name brand drugs.

There were some surprises in there. As usual. On Fridays though, we take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and we also mercilessly roast Gabriel for cosplaying as somebody way edgier than he actually is, I guess. I don't know. Or as a cosplaying, as a

[00:02:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: slip, not aficionado. Thank you for giving everybody the visual of me as a goth Barbie doll.

Yes. As I try to help them fix their lives. Mm-Hmm. I thought this was gonna be our little secret, but yeah. Appreciate that. Yeah. Oh, you thought I wasn't gonna let everybody

[00:02:12] Jordan Harbinger: in on this. You know how this show works? I do. By the way, a few weeks ago when I talked about my trip to Georgia and hanging around with the, the Bell Russian folks, I talked about the whole telegram freak out having to delete sensitive messages before flying home and get rid of chats and all this stuff and remove people from your contacts.

I wanted to tell you guys about some interesting stuff I learned from a Belarusian friend of mine who now lives in Poland. First of all, I. He said that people from Belarus usually clear all their chats, their cloud storage, their caches, and they create new accounts before they travel to visit friends or family in Belarus.

So like if you have your Telegram account where you're talking a bunch of smack about the government, you make a new one and you delete the other one, or you bring a different phone with you. There were actually cases where the police, they would catch somebody in Belarus for badmouthing the government, and after that they would catch everybody who came into contact with that person using contacts on the phone, geolocation.

So there were cases where people were put in prison for having like a what? The smiling poop emoji. Under a photo of a policeman or comments on the internet. And there's software from Russian and Bellus Special Services, which as I understand it uses the public API of various popular services and scans people's accounts for various activities in quote unquote extremist channels according to the Bella Russian authority.

So if you're in like a telegram chat with people who don't like the government, you really need to have an anonymous account. But it's funny 'cause my friend, he's one of the only ones that has an anonymous account and a lot of the sort of casual gals that we were hanging out with, they didn't even know about this.

They knew that there was a security risk, but they didn't really know. And I think I mentioned, I mentioned some, made some joke about like, oh, visit Belarus when you get rid of that crappy dictator. And everyone was like scrambling to remove it from their phone and reset their, and I felt really bad. I just caused everybody like 20 minutes of work and stress by typing something stupid into a chat.

But, uh, man, it's just the stuff we don't have to think about here. It's wild. It's fascinating. It's really sad. It just really makes you appreciate living in a country like the United States for all our flaws, man. Wow. One last quick thing before we dive in. Pocket Casts has just announced you can now rate podcasts in the app.

So if any of you listen to the show on pocket casts and you haven't been able to leave a rating, now you can. It would mean a lot to us. It would also help a lot 'cause we're starting from scratch, essentially on pocket casts with probably zero ratings. So I really appreciate it. Give us a little, a little star bump or whatever the heck it is in pocket casts.

All right, fun ones. Doozies. Gabe, what's the first thing outta the mail bag?

[00:04:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I come from a family that keeps things very close to the vest. The dynamics are such that all four of my remaining siblings keep their distance in order to avoid accountability for prior abuse, which means that a lot of difficult stuff in our family never gets examined or healed.

For example, my youngest sister was raped multiple times at the age of 11 when she was under the care of my brother and his wife for a summer. Oh my God, geez. The rapist was a friend of my brother's. And when my sister failed to convince our brother about what had happened, she kept it hidden thereafter.

Ah, man. So brutal.

[00:05:10] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, that's absolutely heartbreaking. So she tried to tell him and he was just like, no, you're lying. And even though you're 11,

[00:05:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: oh my God, when the situation emerged several years later, it divided the family. Some believed her, some didn't. I personally believe her story because someone outside of our family has reported similar behavior and along the same timeline.

And when my sister talks about it, she still exhibits the behaviors of a person who's been violated in this way. My brother's lack of empathy in dealing with all of this tracks with a lot of other stories in our family. That and other disturbing behavior have also shown up in one of his kids. My nephew, a person I will call John.

John is 45, and he was given a trust fund at birth by my parents, which depleted the entire family's assets. To this day, John has never held down a job, which might have given him life experience and perspective. John is also a Holocaust denier. During a casual evening out with me and my brother, his father, John, started referring to certain ethnic persons as vermin.

[00:06:12] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, yeah.

[00:06:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. So Jews, right? Yeah. That's about to become clear in a moment. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Mm-Hmm?

[00:06:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Great. Cool. Take, bro. Real nuanced, very

[00:06:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: intellectual. These people are the worst. I stopped the conversation and set the ground rule of not vilifying people with whom one disagreed, or in this case, with whom one did not share a racial identity.

This seemed to calm things down for the evening. Then later, someone forwarded me a strongly antisemitic rant from John. Maybe I'm naive, but I found it shocking. I sent it to his father and John's siblings and two other aunts have tried quiet interventions with him. One aunt eventually gave up the other thinks that he's sweet, lazy, entitled, and merely mistaken.

I seem to be alone in being alarmed. So I referred John to some historical sources that would counter his belief that Jews made up the Holocaust to create international sympathy. When they took over Israel, for example, I asked him what he made of trea. Surely the Soviet and Polish reports of that extermination camp didn't support the theory that it was a lie made up to get land.

That's when he unleashed some very difficult language on me and said that I was gaslighting him. I withdrew. John started sending me rants every day about my character using racial slurs, which was so childish as to be amusing, except that the subject matter was deeply alarming. I sent this collection of rants to John's father who remarked that he thought things were better because he wasn't hearing this stuff as much.

He said something along the lines of, don't bring up any subject matter related to John's hate campaign. I think my nephew needs professional help. Sticking my head in the sand is not exactly my thing, but I'm not sure how to be helpful. It strikes me that John could one day, not just speak violently, but actually act out is this psychopathy or merely myopathy?

Should I refer my nephew to professional help derr, or just withdraw from the situation? Signed coping with this mystery while my nephew rewrites history.

[00:08:08] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, I gotta say, because we do the show, we hear a lot more than the average person about conspiracy theorists, about antisemitism, about alternative history, AKA bullshit, yada, yada, yada.

But whenever I hear about a true holocaust deni, it always sends a chill up my spine. So creepy. Yeah, it's so creepy. And look, I'm with you. In one way, people like this are pretty easy to laugh off because they're really, really dumb. Alright. There's so much evidence, there's such compelling historical records, not just from one side, but from the perpetrators.

The people who liberated the camps. Not just the Americans, but the Soviets, the people where the camps were in Poland, like it's, they're victims who were literally there, who are still alive and telling their stories. And there's photographs. I mean, if you think the Holocaust was made up, you are actually, you're just actually a moron slash there's probably something seriously wrong with you if you can fall for an idea like that.

But in another way, it's deeply unsettling to remember that there are people like this in the world. It's creepy, it's idiotic, it's embarrassing, it's offensive, and it's deeply sad, and it's part of the reason that a genocide like that can definitely happen again. So I love that you push back on your nephew's beliefs.

I love that you said, Hey, new rule, when you're with me, you don't get to disparage a group of people just because they're different from us. That was absolutely the right response, and not to be a total boy scout, but it is kind of all our responsibilities to appropriately call people out when they spew this ignorant garbage because left unchecked, people think it's okay, but as you saw with your nephew, the way he responded to you, most of these people, they don't want to hear it.

They can't hear it. It messes with their worldview too much. That's why he's attacking your character. I mean, look how telling his response was, you send him some solid sources and instead of being the intellectual, I'm sure he thinks he is, and reading them and going, huh, okay, I've got some thoughts.

Let's talk about them. He attacked you personally and said, you're gaslighting me, which is ridiculous. Anyone who accuses you of gaslighting them when you're gently challenging their ridiculous beliefs is a big old baby. Probably not very bright. They know they have no leg to stand on. They can't have a rational conversation because they've probably only been in an echo chamber where people be like, yeah, the Jews.

So they make it personal. Plus then he turns it into an ad hominem attack and used racial slurs with, really does track with somebody who believes, you know, the Nazis maybe had some good points. I mean, this guy's got two brain cells and they ain't touching. So you're probably right that your nephew needs professional help on a number of levels.

It sounds to me like he's not just miseducated, but that he has some hateful and perhaps unstable qualities slash mental illness, and that's worrisome. I don't think this is psychopathy per se, at least not in the clinical definition of the term. Although your nephew might embody some of the criteria to some degree for that disorder.

I mean, a lack of empathy, for example, maybe a shallow emotional life, little control over his behavior and impulses, a low tolerance for healthy conflict with people like you. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's gonna go out and murder a Jewish person or somehow target you. I mean, could he? Sure, he could.

But having these disturbing beliefs doesn't automatically make him a predator. In fact, I would go so far as to say most Holocaust deniers that I've met are the biggest wimps in the world, and this is how they feel powerful. Hmm. Not that wimps haven't shot people to death before for no good reason. But he could just be a tragically misinformed and immature person who desperately wants to feel safe and wants to feel important, and wants to feel smart and contrarian.

And this is his way of doing that. And that's the myopathy piece that you refer to somebody who's just insanely blind to some essential facts and just kind of has a piece of his brain missing. So my take is this. I love that you feel a responsibility to help John grow. God knows he needs help. I'm just not sure you're gonna get very far with him.

You've tried his siblings tried, your aunt's tried. No one's getting through to this guy. He's not even really engaging with these interventions in a quasi logical way. He's just melting down and whining and hurling racial epithets and revealing himself to be a deeply ignorant, weird, hateful person that it sounds kind of like nobody really likes and they just sort of tolerate ironically.

So I think you have enough data to know that it's just not worth your time. Frankly, I'm not even sure this is your responsibility. John's 45 years old, he's older than me. He's not your child. This is a grown ass man with his own dumb beliefs and his own agency. And if he wants to be this guy and be this weirdo black sheep with no nothing to look forward to and no purpose in life, you know, let him be that guy and that's compatible with you checking him when he gets on his Holocaust.

Soapbox. And it's compatible with drawing boundaries when he attacks you personally. But my guess is that probably means having way less contact with him before maybe no contact, because you know what's the point.

[00:12:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, totally agree, Jordan. I mean, it's not worth her time if he's not even open to a normal conversation.

I'm sure that there's a part of her that feels a responsibility to help him because it's the morally right thing to do, but there might also be a part of her that's just plain embarrassed to be related to this guy, especially considering the way this family deals with difficult news, with conflict. I mean, let us not forget that the beginning of this letter was about a whole other tragedy in this family that our friend here feels was not handled the right way at all.

She's hoping that she can make this nephew of hers see the light, and I get that. I would feel the same way. But if her shame is compelling her to intervene, it might be time to put that down for a little while and just sit with that feeling. And remember that her nephew's personality, terrible personality, from the sound of it, is not a reflection of her, but of his personality and his choices and his circumstances, including, interestingly, this money that he inherited at birth.

[00:13:39] Jordan Harbinger: I'm glad you came back to that because I was just wondering how that's gonna fit in. So curious. I'm getting this sort of entitled, immature, ignorant dude who hasn't had enough contact with the world to understand how it actually works. A lot of guys who hire younger men for jobs, they'll often say something like, yeah, that guy's just, he, you know, he never got his ass kicked hard enough.

[00:13:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm. This is one of those guys I think. I think that's probably true, but also somebody who hasn't really developed their identity out in the world. Yeah. Which often happens through your career. Yes. Somebody who hasn't fought for his goals, who hasn't faced adversity. Who hasn't discovered what he's capable of, what he's worth, somebody like that might also be so insecure as to be attracted to fringe ideas like this.

[00:14:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, totally. My hunch is this guy is massively insecure because he feels worthless and frankly is probably worthless. 'cause he's never had to try to do anything like you said. He's clinging to this conspiracy theory to kind of shore up his personality. Right. Which actually, that's what drives a lot of conspiracy theorists.

It's like a part of their identity is I'm the contrarian guy who believes in all this nonsense and is gonna like preach it

[00:14:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: and kind of drives anybody who clings to any ideas too strongly, I would argue. But yeah, especially conspiracy theorists. The other interesting detail is that our friend here's parents gave John his trust fund at birth and apparently what that depleted the entire family's assets.

So weird.

[00:14:58] Jordan Harbinger: That was interesting. I'm not sure I understand that though. Did they only give John a trust fund? Did everyone in the family get one? But if, if everyone got one, why did one grandchild's inheritance deplete the whole family's estate? I'm so confused. Or he gotta trust and they had other kids and they were like, we're just not gonna amend this.

I mean, what,

[00:15:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: how? I don't know the deal there. What I do know is that she's clearly miffed about it. Yeah. And maybe that's why she also feels like she has license slash responsibility to school this guy. Because it's like, dude, you compromise the entire family when you hit the lottery. So sit down, shut the fuck up, and learn something.

Yeah. But you know what? I kind of

[00:15:31] Jordan Harbinger: get

[00:15:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: that. I know.

[00:15:32] Jordan Harbinger: I do

[00:15:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: too.

[00:15:33] Jordan Harbinger: I do. I mean, this guy, he was absurdly lucky to be born into this wealth. Although, candidly, hearing how he turned out, it really makes me wonder what lucky means, right? Mm-Hmm. Because this money might have created the conditions for him to turn into what appears to be an unmitigated dipshit, right?

So it's like. What good did the money really do him?

[00:15:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that is fascinating. It might have deprived him of a more meaningful life and, and frankly, a more responsible intellect.

[00:15:58] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. But yeah, this guy could have used his wealth and free time to read lots of books. He could have gone to school, he could have traveled around and learned a bunch of languages and surrounded himself with really smart people.

Instead, he becomes a holocaust admirer, which is like the crap that plays on YouTube. When you fall asleep in front of the computer and wake up at four 30 in the morning, you have crawled to the bottom of the barrel. So even if she has some mixed motivations in schooling, her nephew. Uh, it might be appropriate.

[00:16:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: It might be. Yeah. And this might be one more piece to separate out her moral stance about all of this from her embarrassment, from her personal feelings about him and the money, just so she can know why she's so motivated to work on this guy.

[00:16:34] Jordan Harbinger: Fair point. But still, I think your nephew is on his own journey here.

I hope that journey includes some documentaries in a visit to the Simon Wiesenthal Center one day, but that's up to him. Maybe throw in a little Schindler's list. I applaud your interventions. I celebrate your moral compass. I appreciate how badly you wanna fix this guy, but it's also important to read the room and realize when you are just wasting your breath.

I am sorry that this guy is your nephew, but I'm glad he's the outlier in the family. Wishing you all the best. You know what y'all can't deny. Where's this ad pivot going? The crazy deals on the fine products and services that support this show. And Gabe, there was a much funnier but much more edgy ad pivot that I think would probably have gotten us canceled.

But uh, you'll be proud. I showed some restrain. Oh,

[00:17:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: okay. I'm gonna need to hear about that off air. I have no idea what you're talking about. You got it.

[00:17:20] Jordan Harbinger: We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Rosetta Stone. For those thinking about learning a new language, you gotta know your why. Maybe you got a big trip planned.

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[00:19:36] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers does keep us going. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support this podcast are searchable and clickable over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

Please consider supporting those who support the show now. Back to feedback Friday.

[00:19:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright, what fresh hell is up next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 38-year-old single mom in California and I left my serial cheating, narcissistic, abusive ex-husband and business partner two years ago. Oof, unbeknownst to me, he had never been faithful to me throughout our five year relationship.

After the honeymoon stage, he slowly began isolating me and abusing me emotionally, psychologically, and financially. I finally had the nerve to leave after finding him having a sexual and emotional affair with a client of ours. Knowing I wanted better for my young daughter, I had to get out. I. The separation was horrific as the abuse only escalated and I was taking care of our young daughter alone without any of the resources that we shared in our marriage.

Fast forward to today and we are officially divorced. We co-parent our three-year-old, surprisingly, with little conflict.

[00:20:42] Jordan Harbinger: Hey, wow. Wow, that is amazing. That says a lot about you. Given everything that went down, proud of you for that. That is not easy.

[00:20:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: My ex recently began dating a colleague of ours. I've met and worked with her, and she worked for a company I used to manage.

I know her, but not well. Although I have colleagues and friends who know her better and are flabbergasted that she's even dating my ex. On one hand, I couldn't care less about what he does, as long as it doesn't negatively affect me or my daughter. On the other hand, I feel for this new woman knowing her fate, so I have this overwhelming urge to fill her in on my experience with her new boyfriend.

Ooh, that's a spicy meatball. Did you just say a spicy meatball on the show? You know it what a dad phrase that is.

[00:21:25] Jordan Harbinger: It is. Somebody said that to me once and I could not stop laughing for like three days and I'm like, oh, I gotta use that. It took me 15 years to use it, but here we are.

[00:21:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: I've had so many women confront me with information and more cheating and lies after my separation from my ex after years of abuse.

I even spoke to his ex before me who told me that she had wanted to reach out to me so many times, but was afraid that it wouldn't help. I can't help but be angry at these women for not coming forward sooner. Had I known what a terrible monster he was to other women, I might not have endured the same. I don't know whether I would've listened, but it would've at least planted a seed of doubt when things started going awry.

Should I tell the new girlfriend to beware? How do I go about this without sounding like the crazy ex-wife? Should I enlist fellow colleagues to do the dirty work instead, or should I just let the new woman learn her lesson the hard way and stay out of it for good? Signed sticking my neck out after getting the hell out.

[00:22:20] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Okay. Well, before we dive in, I just wanna say, I'm so happy to hear that you got outta this abusive relationship, not just for you, but for your daughter especially. We've learned a lot over the last few years about how difficult it is to leave a partner like this. Dr. Romney talks about it. People in your shoes can come up with so many reasons to justify this behavior and stay including staying together, you know, for the kids.

To your point, your daughter deserves a healthy parent and a peaceful home. And based on what you've shared, you 100% did right by her and by yourself in leaving this toxic partner, finding a harmonious co-parenting relationship, it's a gift for all of you really. So, look, given the facts here that your ex was this abusive and hurtful, and that you wish his exes had given you a heads up back then, I think you have some good reasons to reach out to his new partner.

If you've been listening to the show this year, you know that Gabe and I have really come around to the idea of respectfully inserting yourself in someone else's life. If you might save them from a dangerous or painful situation, you could even argue that you have a responsibility to do so. Although I could argue both sides of that, I think it would also be totally fair just to stay out of it because you don't want to complicate your parenting relationship, but because you are literally saying, I really needed this information back then myself.

I'm angry at these women for not reaching out to me when they could have, you might already be answering your own question here. So yes, I would probably tell the new girlfriend to beware and the way I would do it is I would reach out ideally over the phone if you can. What what you don't want is a paper trail that she can save for three months and then forward to him when she's, you know, decides to, or that

[00:23:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: he could find on her computer or phone.

[00:23:51] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Exactly. You wanna just say, Hey, I'm so-and-so on this dude's ex-wife. I realize this message is coming outta the blue. It might be a little jarring and unsettling to receive, but I felt it important to get in touch with you. I just want you to know I'm reaching out in a spirit of genuine love and concern.

When this dude and I were together, he abused me. He cheated on me. He lied to me, and you can include a very brief list, brief list of the things he did in here. I had no idea it was that guy when we got together and I had to work very hard to leave that relationship safely. Looking back, I wish that one of his exes who went through the exact same things I did, and there are many of us had reached out to me when we got together.

So I'm taking a chance and giving you the information I wish I had before I went through hell. Please know that I am not trying to insert myself into your life or stir the pot or tell you what to do. I'm just doing what I wish someone had done for me. And if you wanna talk about any of this in more detail, I'd be happy to meet up with total respect for your decisions and process.

I'm here for you in any way that you need. Just something like that. And I think if you word it that way, you are not gonna sound like psycho ex-wife.

[00:24:55] Crosstalk: If

[00:24:56] Jordan Harbinger: on the other hand, you send a five page letter detailing every terrible thing he did over the course of years and turn it into an opportunity to bash him or trauma dump on this woman, that's when it gets into cuckoo X territory.

But you're clearly not that person, and I know you're not gonna do that if you handle things that way. You might not need to enlist your colleagues to do the dirty work instead. Although now that I think about it, it might be worth telling them that you've reached out to this mutual acquaintance and that if they care about her and they feel comfortable, they might wanna give her the same message.

If she hears it from multiple people, it'll be much harder for her to dismiss, and that might be what she needs to realize that this is actually serious. As we talk about a lot after that, it's really up to her. And if she stays with them, that's her choice. Then you have to let her learn her lesson in her own way.

Like you pointed out, you don't know whether you would've listened if somebody had told you, but at least it would've planted a seed of doubt, and that could be the thing that allows this woman to leave sooner than she otherwise would've.

[00:25:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, of course. Totally agree. My only concern in this particular situation is will this intervention have any ripple effect in her co-parenting relationship with this guy, which is so much better than I ever would've imagined it would be.

I'm a little worried about

[00:26:02] Jordan Harbinger: that, Jordan. I'm worried about that too. I a hundred percent agree. And my first reaction to this was like, oh my God, don't say anything. It's not your business. But then I thought about all the letters we've gotten about this over the years, and I know that she's somewhat morally, ethically obligated to give this woman a heads up.

Yeah, but it's a real concern. Is his new girlfriend gonna tell him, Hey, your ex said all these terrible things about you and told me to break up with you. What's that about? She's so nuts. You're perfect.

[00:26:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or even if she takes our friend's advice, is she gonna inadvertently reveal that his ex is the one who tipped her off?

[00:26:30] Jordan Harbinger: Right? And then what's gonna happen to our friend here? Is he gonna, you know, stop dropping the kid off on time? And

[00:26:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know, I mean, he does have this track record of abuse, plus he shares custody of their daughter. So who knows what he might tell her or how he might retaliate in some way or use her as a pawn in all of this.

I don't know.

[00:26:46] Jordan Harbinger: Right. So now I'm back to wondering. Does that mean she might have a reason not to

[00:26:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: say something? I think she just needs to be extremely thoughtful about how she communicates with this woman. For one thing, she might want to talk to their mutual colleagues, the ones she wanted to enlist, to do some of the dirty work, and just ask them like, what kind of person is she?

You know, is she open? Is she stable? Does she seem trustworthy? You know, like what do you know about her? Because if they're like, well, actually she's highly questionable and has a pattern of dating men like this, and she didn't keep this secret that I told her two years ago, then I would be a lot more cautious.

But if she seems pretty solid and you do reach out, then maybe you tell her, look, I'm very worried about you. I am also taking a big risk myself in sharing this with you. So I'm gonna ask you to be very thoughtful about what you do with what I'm about to tell you. And maybe our friend here helps this woman strategize about how to leave without revealing that she was the one who dropped a dime on this guy.

'cause I do think that our friend here needs to balance her own interests with this other woman's given that she still has so much contact with her ex.

[00:27:46] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I agree. This one's tricky with the daughter in the mix. I hope she can do right by this other woman while still protecting herself. Same. But let's be clear about this.

She is taking a big chance in reaching out to this person and not knowing what she's gonna get back. Mm-Hmm. Or what this woman's gonna do with the information. It's a big unknown. So actually that might be another good reason to enlist a couple of these mutual friends to reach out to her too, maybe even to coordinate on this conversation together.

That way you're not the only source of this information and it can't be traced only to you if she leaves him and she'll be forced to take your advice more seriously and all of you can coach her on how to leave this guy without telling him more than he needs to know if it comes to that. So I really do hope you get through to this woman.

I hope she's ready to listen and I hope your story inspires her to take care of herself. You're a solid human being for wanting to look out for her. Just be very cautious and safe along the way. Good luck. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise, use descriptive subject lines.

That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you just found out that your longtime friend was caught with child sexual abuse material, your friend is getting outta prison for murder, or you've called off your engagement after your fiance presented you with the worst prenup ever, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com.

We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, by the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter. Wee bit wiser. It is a bite-sized gem from past episodes and just good thoughts from Gabe and I from me to you delivered right to your inbox once a week. If you wanna keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out.

It's a really good companion to the show. You can sign up at Jordan harbinger.com/news. Alright, what's next?

[00:29:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a family physician working in a Midwest suburb for a large medical system. Overall, I like my job and the people I work with, although some of my patients can be pretty challenging.

A lot of my patients live at or near the poverty line, and many lack basic knowledge about diet, exercise, and mental health, which makes managing their complex issues even harder. I work very hard to educate patients during our short visits, and I genuinely empathize with their obstacles, but it often feels like my advice doesn't stick once they leave.

It's disheartening to watch my patients continue making poor choices despite my advice and everything modern medicine has to offer. Recently, my organization announced plans to open a new clinic in the next year. The clinic will provide patients with resources to improve their physical fitness and mental health.

My dream has always been to work in a clinic that focuses on lifestyle changes as medicine, using modern treatments as a bridge while patients transition to healthier habits. As an added bonus, it's only five minutes from my house, and it's in a much more affluent suburb with a well-educated, generally healthier population.

I've already expressed my interest in transferring to the new clinic and the higher ups are excited about the idea. I'm one of the top performers in my field, both in terms of how many patients I manage and patient outcomes. So they think I'd be a great fit. But here's the catch. If I take this job, I'll be starting from scratch, building a patient panel from the ground up.

A large part of my compensation is tied to patient panel size, so my income would drop from $750,000 to around $300,000, which is the base salary in our organization. Damn. Did you know doctors make that much at a clinic? I did not. I was like, I was like, is that a typo? That's insane. Not a typo. That is amazing.

Wow. Balling outta control. I mean, great for him, but I just never thought about in a clinic setting that you could make that with us. No,

[00:31:17] Jordan Harbinger: I

[00:31:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: thought doctors made like one 50 or something like that at hospitals. Crazy. I don't know much about doctors, but this is impressive. Geez, I'm in the wrong business. It would take at least two to three years of hard work to build my panel back up and get back to being a top 1% earner.

During that time, my family of five would've to make some changes. We don't live lavishly, but we do travel a lot, which we would have to cut back on significantly. Should I take the leap for my dream job, even if it means a huge pay cut for the next few years? Is it worth starting over and grinding again to get back to where I am now?

How could I try to have the clinic provide me with a guarantee of more compensation while I build up my practice? Especially since I'll be heavily involved with developing policies, protocols, and procedures if I take the new position. Signed a high flying dock, starting to balk, rewinding the clock, even though this talk could cause new patients to flock.

[00:32:11] Jordan Harbinger: Good question. First of all, you sound like an incredible doctor. You're doing work that sounds very impactful and fulfilling, and you obviously take great pride in it, and wow, you're making bank on top of it. All of that is amazing and you should be extremely proud. Second, this new opportunity sounds insanely exciting.

Not only do these higher ups see you as a valuable player, a real asset to this new clinic, you have the opportunity to do work that's more fulfilling to work with a patient population that's more aligned with your approach. Part of me is a little sad that these other patients might not benefit from your excellent care anymore, but like you said, they have to wanna get better if they're gonna get better, and they're ultimately in the driver's seat when it comes to their health.

So, look, it's really hard for us to answer the question, do I chase more fulfilling work or do I chase the money that comes down to what matters most to you? Money or purpose. But here's what I can say, yes, losing $450,000 a year in income is a huge pay cut. If you had said, oh, they're offering me 50 K less or a hundred K less, I'd say, Hey, don't think twice.

Go for the cooler work. Build back up. 450 grand over two or three years, you might be talking about a net loss of like a million dollars here. That's a huge amount of money that would've gone into your retirement. I mean, you might have to work longer, so this is tough, but it sounds like building your patient panel up is partly under your control, maybe largely under your control.

You're an amazing doctor who seems to attract patients. You might start building up really quickly, and it might not be three straight years of 450 annual loss. It might be a fraction of that, and you could probably close the gap pretty quickly.

[00:33:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm also thinking about the fact that this guy is probably still relatively young, right?

So he has a lot of great years of practicing medicine out of him, so also taking this pay cut is not gonna devastate his family. It's just gonna be a step back.

[00:33:47] Jordan Harbinger: Plus you don't live lavishly, which is awesome. This might just mean traveling less for a couple years, no big deal. Who knows? It might even force you guys to get creative about finding meaningful experiences that aren't as expensive.

Rent that Winnebago and go camping, get some cheap tickets to offbeat places. Have different kinds of adventures. Maybe staycations, it's not a bad thing, might even teach your kids how fun and enrich their lives can be without having to fly to Europe or whatever. Every summer. It's all about how you guys spend that time together.

So my advice is, look, play the long game. Chasing meaningful work is almost always a better strategy than chasing lucrative work. Especially if you're a person who's very driven by purposeful work, who's still pretty young, who can survive the pay cut, who isn't putting himself at major risk existential stuff here, and who knows that there's a way to build back up to where he was.

The most bankable and sustainable way to make great money is to do work that you truly care about. And this new clinic sounds like a way to do exactly that. If you make the jump, I would work your butt off to build up that patient panel. Goes without saying, but I would treat it like a game. I'd sit down and go, okay, how quickly can I get back to making seven 50?

What would that take? Put together a little business plan, roadmap, set of habits, and some systems that'll allow you to build your practice as quickly as possible. Maybe that means doing a crap ton of intakes in the first six months. Maybe it means writing a weekly newsletter to keep your patients engaged, to encourage them to bring other people to the clinic.

Maybe you can do referral stuff. I don't know what's legal in the medical world. Maybe it means creating some automated email stuff, checking in on your patients at regular intervals so you can give them excellent care in a way that's scalable. Maybe it means helping this new clinic develop some new offerings that'll generate additional revenue that you can share in, or develop some marketing strategies that'll bring more patients into the clinic sooner.

And of course, this will also probably mean working longer hours for at least a little while to see as many patients as possible until you can even out and enjoy your practice without pulling crazy hours. There are loads of strategies and techniques you could explore. Basically, I'd put on your entrepreneur hat and get creative, but also, yes you can and absolutely should negotiate the best possible deal with this new clinic.

There's always room to negotiate. It sounds like they need you for this, and it sounds like they're stoked because they know they're lucky to get you probably at this price. It sounds like you're gonna be heavily involved in developing policies, protocols, procedures, all that. So you definitely have license to say, Hey, I'm happy to help you build this new clinic.

I'm pumped to lead this place. I'd like my compensation to reflect that because I'm basically taking an administrative position and a practicing or a clinical position, and then get into it with them. Ask for what you want and see where they're willing to meet you and explain why you need it. You're taking a massive pay cut.

I means you're taking more of a over 50%. That's enormous. I'm not gonna get into a whole negotiation crash course right now, but we're gonna link to all of our negotiation resources in the show notes for you. Of course there was. There's gonna be money for you right now, literally. So definitely check those out as you start these conversations.

Bottom line, yes. I think it's worth starting over and grinding again to get back to where you are now. If you have a special opportunity like this. Equally important. It's often worth asking. If you're really starting over at all, you might take a step back in compensation, but you've never been a better doctor than you are right now.

You're walking into this new gig with a ton of experience, passion, drive. Those are huge assets and they'll be great tools for you in building your practice and a source of inspiration and motivation as you build your earnings back up. And I say that as somebody who's had to start over in a fairly devastating way, and I realize that we rarely start from scratch.

It feels like you might, but then you don't. There are always relationships and skills and experiences we can tap into. And building back up is often a lot easier than it seems, which is really exciting. So ask for what you want. Be proactive and creative and trust that working your ass off while you chase something meaningful, almost always results in success.

So good luck, man, wishing you and your family all the best. And now it's time for some morbidly obese discounts on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Transcend. So you know, I'm always sharing tips and tricks to stay sharp. The little hacks that actually make a difference today, this is something that's had a, just a huge impact on my physical health.

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Alright, back to feedback Friday. Okay, next up,

[00:41:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Jordan, I know that 7 3 4 XXX 3 9 1 5 is a convenient to have a chat with you in case you don't act. So it's important you pay attention to this message right now. Take a moment to chill, breathe, and analyze it thoroughly because we're about to discuss a deal between you and me, and I need you to be on point.

You do not know me, whereas I know everything about you, and you must be wondering how right you've been treading on thin ice with your browsing habits, scrolling through those videos and venturing into the darkest corners of cyberspace. I installed a malware on a porn website and you visited it to watch you get my drift.

When you were busy watching those videos, your smartphone started out functioning as a RDP remote protocol, which gave me complete accessibility to your smartphone. I can peep at everything on your display flick on your cam and mic, and you wouldn't have a clue. Oh, and I've got access to all your emails, contacts, and social media accounts too.

What I want been keeping tabs on your pathetic existence for a while now, it's simply your misfortune that I found, your misadventures. I invested in more time than I should have exploring into your personal life. Extracted quite a bit of juicy info from your system, and I've seen it all. Yeah. Yeah. I've got footage of you jerking off in your room.

I set up, by the way. Thank you. That wasn't me. That's in the letter, right? Yeah, I know. I just to be clear, I then developed videos and screenshots where on one side of the screen there's whatever garbage you had been watching, and on the other part it is someone jerking off. That part was me. Just to be clear.

Yeah,

[00:43:11] Clip: it's true.

[00:43:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: With just a click, I can send this video to all of your contacts. What should you do? I feel your worry and confusion. Honestly. I wanna wipe the slate clean and let you move on with your regular life and wipe your slate clean. It's a dirty slate. I'm gonna give you two alternatives. It's filthy.

Either disregard this, warning bad for you or pay me a small amount. Let's investigate above two options in more details. Option one is turn a blind eye to this email message. Let's see what is gonna happen if you take this option. Your video will get sent to all of your contacts. The video is straight fire.

[00:43:49] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm. Thank you.

[00:43:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well done. Jordan. I'm so proud of you.

[00:43:52] Jordan Harbinger: Pat myself on the back

[00:43:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: and I can't even fathom the humiliation. You'll endure when your colleagues, friends and fam see it. But hey, that's life ain't it. Don't be playing the victim here. Other option is to pay me and be confidential about it. We'll call this my privacy tip.

Now, let me tell you what will happen if you opt for this path. Your dirty secret remains private. I will wipe everything clean. Once you come through with the payment, you need to make the payment via Bitcoins only. Pay attention. I'm telling you straight. We gotta make a deal. I want you to know I'm coming at you with good intentions.

[00:44:27] Jordan Harbinger: Clearly

[00:44:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: I honor my obligations. Transfer amount, 6,000 US dollars Bitcoin address. He includes it in the letter. Let me tell you, it's peanuts for your piece. That's an

[00:44:39] Jordan Harbinger: which Wait, is that P-E-A-C-E or P-I-E-C-E? I need

[00:44:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: some clarification. P-E-A-C-E. It's peanuts. Oh, I see. For your piece.

[00:44:46] Jordan Harbinger: Okay.

[00:44:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: You got one day to sort this out.

My system will catch that Bitcoin payment. Wipe out all the dirt I got on. You don't even think about replying to this. It's pointless. The email and wallet are custom made for you. I don't make mistakes. Jordan, if I suspect that you've shared or discussed this mail with anyone else, oh no. As I

[00:45:05] Crosstalk: read this on the podcast,

[00:45:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: yes,

[00:45:06] Crosstalk: exactly.

[00:45:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Your video will instantly start getting sent to your contacts and don't even think about turning off your phone or resetting it to factory settings. It is pointless. Let's get this sorted out within five to six hours. I'm waiting for the payment. Honestly, those online tips about covering your camera aren't as useless as they seem.

Don't dwell on it. Take it as a little lesson and keep your guard up in the future. I. Signed giving chase to help you save face,

[00:45:31] Jordan Harbinger: right? So as y'all have probably figured out by now or, or you're not getting a video, uh, mom, but as you probably figured out right now, this is a scam email I received this week from some scam factory and God knows where, and I asked Gabe to read it because, well, first of all, this is one of the most aggressive scams I've ever seen, is really like immediately goes to 11, and it reminded me how gross and pernicious these people can be.

Second, we've been getting a lot of emails lately from people who have fallen for scams, especially the sextortion ones, which is what this is sextortion. And I thought sharing this might help some folks avoid forking over cash to criminals for no reason. As you can see, these scammers are really good at freaking people out and hitting them where it hurts worrying that your nudes are gonna get leaked or your browsing history is gonna be released, or someone is compromising material about you.

It's terrifying. And if you don't know about these hustles or you can't see through this stuff, these people can get a, they can get a ton of money outta you because if you pay that six grand, they're gonna ask you for more and more and more until you stop. That's the whole point. Mm-Hmm. And they're gonna leave you with some really awful feelings.

[00:46:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Obviously. I'm thinking about the guy who wrote in a couple months ago after he clicked on, what was it? Like a popup ad on a porn website, and then he handed over some insane amount was like $40,000 in Bitcoin. Yeah. And he felt really bad about it. This is the same scam.

[00:46:41] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. That's where my mind went as well.

Great example of a smart, normal, responsible person who just didn't know that these scams exist, who is targeted at a moment of extreme vulnerability. Mm-Hmm. Luckily, I knew better than to take this note seriously, partly because of all the scam stuff I deal with on the show, partly because I don't visit the websites this guy claims I did at all.

Many people, they just don't have this awareness. So I wanted to share this with you in case it helps. Also, I found the email hilarious. I mean, it was bad grammar. There were so many other little mistakes and tells, it was just pathetic in many ways and I wanted to laugh about it with Gabe on the show.

[00:47:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think my favorite part is what I want.

Yes. Been keeping tabs on your pathetic existence for a while now it's simply your misfortune that I found Your misadventures, which is what I'm gonna call this podcast from now on. Nice. Nice. That's one, that's one of my

[00:47:25] Jordan Harbinger: favorite lines too. Um, it's so mean. It's almost comical. Yeah. But then I love right after that he's like, I invested more time than I should have in exploring your personal life.

It's like, wait, so how interested are you in me? Oh, and also it's pathetic, but I spent 19 hours watching you. Like, okay, Sherpath. I

[00:47:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: mean, he's a busy guy. He's got stuff to do, you know?

[00:47:43] Jordan Harbinger: No, of course. I'm so sorry scammer for taking up so much of your precious time with my pathetic wink videos. I should probably keep my me time to a tight 15, but you know, just to make things easier on guys like this, how inconsiderate of me for sure to be such a taxing target.

But Gabe, you know what's really disturbed me about this scam? A few lines later, he goes, I feel your worry and confusion. Honestly. I wanna wipe the slate clean and let you move on with your regular life or whatever. It's like, what?

[00:48:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah. Just that creepy way. They feign empathy. Yes. It's horrible.

[00:48:09] Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

It's so, it's like AI empathy. It's very creepy. Yeah. One moment is your worst nightmare. The next moment, he's like, your buddy's just trying to get this to put this behind you. I have to think that's part of what makes these effective at some level. They torment you and freak you out, and then they soothe you and say that they're gonna make it all go away.

It's so gross.

[00:48:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: And then a few lines later, he is back to being a total a-hole. Right?

[00:48:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Which is all intentional. They know what works. Clearly this works because they wouldn't be sending this if they weren't finding some success, sending it to a million people and getting 10 victims to respond.

[00:48:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, I also wonder if this is one of those slave operations that you've talked about.

Yeah. Where they're sending out a form letter and some horrible person at the top wrote the letter, and then all these poor people who are chained to a desk somewhere in Malaysia or whatever, have to send it out to Mm-Hmm. Tens of thousands of people they found on the dark web, which by the way would explain the weird thing with your phone number at the beginning, but Yes.

You know, a lot of people will pay it. You

[00:48:58] Jordan Harbinger: mean where they didn't even have my full phone number, but included Xs like you're trying to intimidate me and say, you have videos of me doing something horrible, but the personal information you include is a partial cell phone number. You know, as my full cell phone number, every car insurance sales huckster in the entire Western hemisphere.

Mm-Hmm. But you can't find it. Hacker boy. Yeah, right.

[00:49:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, it's peanuts for your piece. What a catch phrase. Yes.

[00:49:23] Jordan Harbinger: Anyway, look, if you guys ever get an email like this or anything close to this, do not engage, don't panic, don't respond, don't do anything. Over the course of years, I've been in the sort of funny position of having close friends of mine, some of whom are well known, be like, okay.

No one can know about this. Someone's got a video of me doing something and I don't know what to do, and I'm like, this is a scam. You're totally fine. Nobody has a video. And they're like, can we forget that we've ever had this conversation? I'm like, no problem, no problem. But it's people where you're like, oh my.

The CEO of this big company came to me with this and doesn't know that this is just complete nonsense. They target anybody with this.

[00:49:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Her buddy got compromised. He's like,

[00:49:59] Jordan Harbinger: do you think it'll matter that I, and I'm like, don't finish that sentence. I don't wanna know what the rest of that sentence was gonna be.

[00:50:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I just wanna tell you that You're fine. Yeah, say no more.

[00:50:07] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. So if you're confused about whether something is real, you can always run it by other people. Reddit scams. The subrate for scams will tell you immediately what kind of scam it is. If they've seen it before. You can also drop it into chat, GPT, Google, see if anybody else has gotten it.

Send it to us. We could try to weigh in. But in general, anyone extorting you on the internet using this kind of language, 99.999 times out of a hundred is full of crap. Anyone who says you have six hours to respond, or your life is gonna be over, is 100% a scammer. Oh

[00:50:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: no, I'm gonna quibble with that. He said five to six hours.

So I appreciated his flexibility on that.

[00:50:40] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, fair enough. Yeah, he gave me a little buffer. Mm-Hmm. Those people are 100% a scammer. This is called building urgency. It's designed to get you to panic so that you cannot think clearly. That is a key ingredient to this scam. That's why scammers will try to keep you on the phone while you're buying the gift cards.

That's why they try and threaten you, because if you start panicking, all your caution goes out the window. 'cause you just want it to end if you start going. So I need to pay the IRS and target gift cards that work only on iTunes, wait time.

[00:51:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: They manipulate time,

[00:51:09] Jordan Harbinger: they have to manipulate time, and they have to get your adrenaline pump.

So just do not engage with these emails in any way. Don't click on links. Don't click on attachments. Report the email spam or phishing to your email provider. Delete it, and move on with your life. Also, by the way, people who have real dirt on you, they show you a sample, take it from me. They don't just type 13 paragraphs about how they have your dick pics.

Mm-Hmm. Like in spy movies, they always show the person the manila envelope with the black and white photos of them doing something bad that's taken through like a car window. Mm-Hmm. There's no benefit to being vague if you have a real compromat on somebody. The reason the scammer is being vague is they don't have a damn thing.

Yes. They want your imagination to fill in the blanks. And Gabe, one last funny thing. I got the exact same email maybe two or three days later from a different email address. Oh wow. I mean the language is a hundred percent the same. So clearly my information, partial phone number and all got leaked on the dark web in a scam center or multiple scam centers bought it and picked it up.

So, alright. What I want, I want Gabe to hit us up with his recommendation of the week.

[00:52:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: All right, let's do it. Yeah. It's simply your misfortune that I've been keeping this one from you. Mm. I'll trade

[00:52:15] Jordan Harbinger: you

[00:52:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: a

[00:52:15] Jordan Harbinger: wag video for it. I got a great setup.

[00:52:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: So my recommendation of the week is, you know those Polaroid cameras from when we were kids, like instant cameras?

Sure. There's a whole new generation of them. And there's this one called the Fuji Film Inax Square SQ one Instant Camera. And I discovered it because my friend Brenna had one at her house. She had a little party and we took some photos and I was reminded how fun it is to have a physical photo in the moment of a cool little moment at a party.

I bought one, I actually brought it to Burning Man. It turned out to be one of the most fun things I could have brought. When we ran into friends or met people, I would take a photo and hand it to them, write something on the back. People did that with me. And yeah, it was just really lovely and it's a fun little toy.

And uh, I now have a little collection that I plan to make into a wall of photos in my apartment or in my office somewhere. So I'm having a blast with that. And I think you guys might too. And also made me realize, Jordan, with everything being digital now. Physical media is so nostalgic and it's so fun.

Mm-Hmm. There's a lot of value in having actual things you can touch. I'm looking at a photo right now, a Polaroid on my desk of my friend Brenna and me, and it's just like this lovely little memory that I'll cherish forever. So yeah. This is a great camera. Were

[00:53:21] Jordan Harbinger: you on the North Korea trip where? Where I brought a pol, like an ancient Polaroid that also saved a digital copy of the photo and you could print it.

[00:53:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: No. You did that after we went together.

[00:53:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So that was fun because in North Korea you can never, the problem is you can't email somebody a copy of the photo. Right, right. So we would take photos, hand 'em out, and they'd be like, no, you keep one. And I'm like, it's saved in here. People were wanting photos with their kids and they would say something like, this is the only photo of my son and I together that exists.

Oh wow.

[00:53:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's wild.

[00:53:49] Jordan Harbinger: They were doing it through our guides, translating, but it was just, that was really something. Yeah. The only one he tried to pay me and I just thought, my gosh, the last person I can accept cash from is someone in North Korea. Plus he might even get in trouble for that. I don't even know how that works.

[00:54:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Instant cameras a huge hit in the most repressive regime on earth.

[00:54:04] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. Yeah. We had one at the wedding in Georgia. We have one here at home. The kids love it. Good recommendation.

[00:54:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, one more thing. After I told you guys about that octopus documentary, a bunch of you wrote me with a bunch of great octopus books and content, and thank you for that.

I, I definitely needed more, uh, more cephalopods in my life. A couple of you also pointed out something I did not know, which is that the plural form of the word octopus is not in fact octopi as I insisted on saying it, but octopus is, which is how Paul Redd says it in the documentary. And apparently that's because the word octopus comes from Greek, not Latin.

In Latin, the US ending gets pluralized with an I, but in Greek, the noun gets pluralized differently, which I did not realize. So actually the plural of octopus should be octopods. Or I checked online and there was somebody who said it octos. But that's a bridge too far. I'm not saying that

[00:54:53] Jordan Harbinger: now. Nobody even knows what the hell you're talking about at that point.

[00:54:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, I've lost. I've lost everybody. Yeah, but this is the plural lending in Greek. Or you can just say octopuses to reflect the adoption of that word in English. Did you know this, Jordan? No, I did not. But thankfully,

[00:55:06] Jordan Harbinger: 8,000 people sent me the exact same email. I'm, I'm actually not complaining. I'm, I'm thankful for that.

I think it's cool we get to learn stuff from people. Same. I was shocked at the number of people that actually took the time to write, actually, here's how this works. I know I'm being annoying, but here's how it works. I'm like, you're not annoying. I'm, I'm flattered that you care.

[00:55:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, I actually love these emails.

Yes. So if anyone says octopi like I did, they might be right in the sense that language evolves and that's how people speak. But it's actually wrong. I was wrong and I'm grateful to be corrected. And it's also nice to know that I'm not the only grammar Nazi in our show family. So thanks. Now,

[00:55:36] Jordan Harbinger: as a fellow language nerd, I'm also really into this stuff, but as a guy who, who prays that no one turns this show off, I apologize for this weird digression into Greek and Latin pluralization, and I promise the final dumpster fire you've been waiting for is just around the corner.

Yeah. Thanks for that, Gabe. The camera wreck is really good. I can't even fathom the humiliation. All of you will endure when your colleagues, friends, and fam jump on this and you don't. Alright, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for our show. If you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, if there was an episode you really liked, an episode you didn't like, maybe you're posting your sextortion scam and you just wanna slide over to a different subreddit and discuss this podcast, go and find us over at reddit.com/r/jordan harbinger.

Just search for the Jordan Harbinger subreddit and come hang out. Alright, next up.

[00:56:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I don't have it. And by it I mean that inexplicable magnetism that just attracts people to you everywhere you go without even trying.

[00:56:29] Jordan Harbinger: I can't relate,

[00:56:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: but go on. I've never really been an outcast, but outside of the people closest to me, my husband, immediate family, two or three close friends who live far away, I've never really been anyone's first choice friend.

I've always felt like I'm on the fringes or an afterthought. I've never gotten the impression that people are bothered by my presence, but no one seems to miss me when I'm gone either. I get invited to all of the big planned group events, but rarely does anyone reach out to me on a whim to just hang out on a random Tuesday evening.

Yes, I've tried to be the person who does the reaching out on a random Tuesday, no dice. My husband is very similar and as a couple, we're never the social nucleus of any other couple's groups. I haven't been too bothered by this for most of my life. I'm an introvert by nature, so I really enjoy my alone time, and I was always included enough that I felt socially fulfilled.

But the last couple of years have brought some major changes to my life that are leaving me feeling pretty isolated, a new job that is 100% travel based and has no common office and the loss of my core social group. I'll spare you the details because this letter is already long and they don't really matter here anyway, but basically when the queen bee of that group cut me loose, the other people in the group dropped me so fast and with no questions asked that I can only assume the hole that my absence has left in their life is negligible or non-existent compared to the giant gaping chasm.

Their absence has left in mind. I was just their fringe friend. I know I'm better off without them, but that doesn't solve my current problem. I know making friends in your thirties is hard, and I've tried all of the low hanging fruit. I've joined friend making apps where the conversations flame out before I can propose a meeting.

I've joined local meetup groups based on common interests. I've done six minute networking to rekindle old friendships. I even tried to experiment with different approaches to see if I could become an IT person myself. But with little success, despite my best efforts and actively going outta my comfort zone to reinvent myself, I was always sorted right back into my natural place in the social hierarchy, are some people just born blisters?

Is it possible to make the jump from fringe friend to the inner circle without completely changing my personality? Should I stop trying to be something that I'm not and just wait around for another Alister to take a liking to me and adopt me into the fringes of his or her friend group until they inevitably find a better wallflower to replace me with?

Signed, withdrawn, and woe be gone about being stuck in this echelon.

[00:59:04] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. You know, Gabe, this letter's hit me on a few different levels. There's a part of me that's very saddened by all of this. I feel her pain. I know how much it sucks to not always feel appreciated or prioritized by people. To not have a group of rock solid friends around you to go through a friend breakup like this one that she described, and just feel like you have the rug pulled out from under you, which is devastating.

I'm gonna be honest, there were versions of Jordan at different points in his life, especially young Jordan, that could have written this letter or similar. Hmm. The reason I got so interested in social dynamics in the first place and the dating stuff and the socials, I had a lot to learn about how to relate to people, how to build community, how to accept myself while also building the muscles I needed to build.

It's not easy, it's a journey and it can be very confusing sometimes. Like am I the problem, are other people the problem? Is it really possible to change in an authentic way that'll get me better friends, or is this just my fate? Those are intense questions and I wanna thank you for sharing so much with us.

You're being incredibly vulnerable in writing in with all this, and I really appreciate that and I bet everyone listening right now does too, because all of us wrestle with our social lives to some degree. So to be very direct with you, no, I don't believe that some people are born blisters. I don't think anyone is faded to only have certain kinds of relationships for the rest of their life or no good relationships.

I believe we're born with, you know, certain characteristics that then get developed or reinforced or perhaps neglected in various ways. Your introversion might be an innate quality, for example, and then we develop additional qualities along the way as we grow. And all of those lead to certain patterns, and those patterns can make it hard to have the relationships we wanna have.

But those qualities and patterns, we can absolutely work on them and we should work on them. If they're creating outcomes we're not happy with, like feeling isolated or misunderstood or unsupported. The question becomes how do you work on those things and still remain yourself. How do you stretch and improve without feeling false?

Because as you pointed out, you tried that it didn't work, and I don't know what you tried, but I'm with you. It's hard to build more meaningful relationships when you're not really being yourself, and that's the bind that every person who wants to work on their social skills finds themselves in, including me way back when.

So look, this is where your letter gets tricky, because I don't know you, I don't know how you show up in these interactions. I don't know what you're bringing to these relationships. I don't know how you navigate conflict with people. There's so much I'd need to know in order to put my old coaching hat back on and really guide you.

But I did pick up on a few things in your letter that might be interesting to explore. The first was the idea that you don't have it. Okay? So yes, some people have what you might call a natural charisma. Some people are more naturally outgoing or innately funny or good looking or comfortable with people.

We know this. I'm not minimizing how useful those qualities can be, but it sounds like you're thinking about this quality in a very binary way. You either have this magical X factor thing or you don't. Also in a fairly limited way, like this is simply a question of charisma, when really the success of your relationships.

They depend on qualities and behaviors that we all need to consciously cultivate. Kindness, curiosity, vulnerability, flexibility. Good follow through. Mm-Hmm. Uh, integrity, A healthy capacity for conflict. Decent sense of humor wouldn't hurt. Generosity, right? A willingness to really be there for people instead of just phoning it in good judgment.

The list goes on and on. Those are the big ones for me anyway that pop into my head. You're already exhibiting many of those qualities in your letter. You clearly have a lot to offer people, but believing you need to have some magical quality in order to have great friendships. I could see how that would lead you to think that you're either born with it or you're not.

Or that there's such a thing as one's natural place in the social hierarchy, or even that there is some kind of social hierarchy out there as adults. And that being at the top is a worthwhile goal. I'm just not convinced that that's true anymore. We're not in high school. Things fade quite quickly from there.

Uh, so I'd invite you to consider A, whether all of that is really true. B, whether the idea might be functioning in a certain way for you, maybe to make this aspect of life so daunting, so fixed that it's not even worth addressing at this point because it's like, Hey, look, what's the point? You know, another thing that jumped out at me was this thing that you said you always felt included enough that you felt socially fulfilled.

Look, I get that. It can be hard to realize that you want more outta life when you're just getting enough contact to scrape by, but this also makes me wonder if you might have been settling for relationships that were never entirely fulfilling even before this whole fallout, and it was hard for you to voice that.

Which raises another big question for me. Are you picking the right people? Because you could be brilliantly social and still end up in unfulfilling relationships. Happens all the time. I used to hear about it constantly in my coaching days. Half the equation is what qualities you lead with, how you share yourself with other people.

The other half of the equation is which people you are sharing them with.

[01:03:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. And if you aren't picking the right people, it doesn't matter if you were born with it, if that quality even exists, you could still end up feeling empty and alone.

[01:03:55] Jordan Harbinger: Right? Look, I'm not saying your old friends were terrible people.

I don't know them. They could be total a-holes, and if they iced you out like this, maybe some of them were, or they could just be people who had different needs who were growing in a different direction and simply wasn't a fit. That's really hurtful. And again, I've been on both sides of that experience.

I get how awful it is, but that might not make them monsters. What I do know is this, if the queen be of that group iced you out and others followed suit, those people are not your people, period.

[01:04:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: And I think she knows that. And knowing which people are your people in terms of the values they hold, the experiences they want to have with you, how they treat you, you know, like whether they take a genuine interest in you, if they are on your side, if they have your back, that is so essential

[01:04:34] Jordan Harbinger: and that's where your taste and judgment come in.

And that might be something else to look at. And that's why I feel, especially in my mid forties having two or three really great friends, hell having one amazing friend that's worth so much more than having dozens of maybe kind of friends who could sort of like take you or leave you mm-Hmm. Or clinging to a friend group where you don't feel entirely valued or safe.

So when you say, I know I'm better off without them, but that doesn't solve my current problem. I find myself wanting to go, I'm glad you know you're better off without them. And I agree and I hear you that you're still struggling to find a friend group. But let's slow this down a little bit and appreciate that your current problem might be informed in part by the people you're choosing in the first place.

[01:05:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, it's a really important point, Jordan. I agree. And I totally share your view on having deep friendships with people as opposed to having like dozens and dozens of people who like might or might not be there when you need them. There was one other moment that jumped out at me in her letter and it was the part where she said, I'll spare you the details because this letter is already getting long and they don't really matter here anyway.

But basically, and then she goes on to tell us the brief story about how the queen bee of that group cut her loose and then everybody like closed ranks around her.

[01:05:38] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that was interesting. What do you make of that?

[01:05:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, first of all, the details about what actually went down might have been super helpful for us to A, diagnose what happened, and B, appreciate why this was such a huge wound for her without some details.

We're now having to fill in the gaps and speculate and dig into these clues, which is fine. I find it interesting that she spent so much time describing her problem, but when it came time to give us, you know, like some real insight into the specifics of her dynamics with these old friends now, is that our friend here being thoughtful about the length of her letter, not wanting to take up too much time, probably.

She's clearly a very thoughtful person and I actually love that about her. But is that also maybe a little bit of self-preservation? Would it be exposing, would it be embarrassing to recount the details of how that breakup actually went down? And is she maybe controlling the narrative here just a little bit?

[01:06:30] Jordan Harbinger: Also possible.

[01:06:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's also possible. Or is her skipping over the details in an effort to be respectful? You know, basically not wanting to take up too much space on our show. Is that itself a really interesting quality of hers? Because, like you said, Jordan, so much of great friendships is about vulnerability, right?

Sharing things with people, allowing them to take up room, being willing to take up room yourself, risking that feeling of being a burden and knowing that if you're building friendships with the right people, you aren't a burden. If she's doing that with us, if she is literally telling us this letter is already too long and these details don't really matter anyway, I do wonder if she does a version of that with other people.

I don't know if it's explicit or implicit. I don't know if it's conscious or unconscious, but she might be signaling to people. I'm already too long. I don't really matter. Anyway, when the reality is, we would've loved to hear the details of what happened with that friend group so we could be helpful to you.

And they do matter because you matter. But if you don't think you matter, then it's gonna be a lot harder for other people to feel that you matter too. If you don't always make it easy for people to know what's really going on with you, or you know, if you don't talk about these really formative experiences that you've been through, then I can see how this could become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I could also see why you might think that you'd have to invent a whole new persona for yourself. Instead of learning how to share these parts of yourself, your true self in the right way.

[01:07:55] Jordan Harbinger: Bingo, Gabe. That's exactly right. And I can see how this pattern could lead someone to develop all the beliefs that she shared in her letter, including the assumption that the whole her absence has left in their life is negligible or non-existent compared to the giant gaping chasm their absence has left in hers.

Right. She said that in the letter,

[01:08:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: which was such a difficult sentence to hear.

[01:08:15] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Kind of heartbreaking. Like, I'm not saying she's wrong and I'm not gonna convince her to feel otherwise. I mean, she feels how she feels. It's all fair. Mm-Hmm. But there's a really interesting story baked into that belief.

She didn't just get dropped by these friends. She's also failed to make the same impact on them that they did on her. So her loss is bigger than theirs. Right. It's a double inj. It's like a triple injury. Right. So look, is it possible to make the jump from fringe friend to inner circle without completely changing my personality?

Well, I would back up a little first and ask yourself whether you need to be in some theoretical inner circle in order to feel connected and fulfilled. My vote is no, but I'll let you decide that for yourself. I think you'll get a lot further seeking out people who share your values and interests and commitments.

You need to focus on people, not on groups, but yes, you can absolutely evolve without changing your whole personality. Like I said, there might be aspects of yourself that you need to develop. We touched on a few, the most meaningful one being your capacity for vulnerability, connection, self-disclosure. So I'm not letting you off the hook for that, but I would not invent some whole new persona.

Trust me, I've tried that. I've seen many people do that when I was younger. It does not work. It's a trap. You don't become more authentic by adding stuff to your personality. You become more authentic by subtracting things from your personality that are inauthentic and usually caused by insecurity. So give that a go.

See if you find any new results. It's all learning. You are growing, you're changing. You've been through a big wound with this friend group. The upside is that this experience is inviting you to look at how you operate with other people, which I think is great. So stay curious, take chances and I know you'll find the friends and experiences that you wanna have, sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best.

Go back and check out Renee de Resta and our Skeptical Sunday on generic versus name brand drugs. If you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like, and trust. Speaking of friendships and relationships, I'm teaching you how to build that same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course.

The course is free. It is not gross, it is not schmoozy. It is, uh, more subtractive and authentic to use. All the buzzwords we threw in that last question there. You can find it on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. It doesn't take a ton of time every day. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago.

Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks build relationships before you need to lean on them. You can find all of that again, once again for free@sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes, transcripts on the website, advertisers deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show. All at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Foggerty, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on this show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. Here's a trailer of an episode I think you might enjoy.

[01:11:21] Clip: If you're not honest with yourself, then how do you ever move your life in a positive direction? Because you're starting from a point of fantasy.

Nobody can succeed if you're not honest with themselves. Revenue cures all, you know, when I talk to people in business seminars and they're saying, oh, John, my labor cost is high. My marketing cost is high. My promotion cost is high, my tech cost is high. But if I could raise your revenue by 30%, you wouldn't have pet cost problems anymore.

You wouldn't have labor cost problems. So it's the ultimate pacifier of every problem that that exists in our lives. If we focus on top line, which means I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do is how do I monetize myself right now? How do I drive revenue? That is the first thing I have to do today.

Then I can deal with all of the other things that I have to, but there's nothing more important to an entrepreneur than revenue. And if they don't wake up. Every morning and think about revenue. First thing probably shouldn't be an entrepreneur and, and I'm gonna say something that's gonna upset some people.

Sometimes when I go to these businesses and I see a bartender, people say he's been a bartender for 10 years. Mm-Hmm. He should be the manager. No. If he's been a bartender for 10 years and he hasn't bubbled up, then he's the last guy who should be the manager. Some people are comfortable where they are and you promote him right out of the company.

Yeah. That guy who's been a bartender for 10 years, leave him alone. Yeah. The person who's not comfortable, who's bubbling up on their own, that's the one who should be promoted even if they've only been with you for a couple months. I don't believe that he can make a leader. I don't believe he can train a leader.

I don't believe he can make a leader. The Pied Piper, you would've followed him off a cliff. Leadership is boring. It's not given

[01:13:02] Jordan Harbinger: for more no nonsense business advice with Bar Rescue Star John Taffer. Check out episode 142 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.