142: Jon Taffer | Raising Your Bar and Crushing All Excuses

Transcript for Jon Taffer - Raising Your Bar and Crushing All Excuses (Episode 142)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer Jason DeFillippo. Now, I'm not much of a reality television guy, not even a little bit, but when I got the chance to interview the one and only Jon Taffer of Bar Rescue, I was definitely into it. While on the surface, it may just look like Jon yells at people and then repaint their bar. I know there's something deeper going on. In many episodes of his show, I see Jon working not just to change the business, but the people in the business, and that's why he's a great fit for this show. So in this episode, we'll explore why Jon believes that success in business always hinges on the human factor and why we should always hire for personality. We'll also discover why Jon and myself ruthlessly critique our own work and how this routine ego beating has been crucial to each of our success.

[00: 00:47] There's a lot in this episode about how we can get honest with ourselves so that we're better equipped to deal with the challenges our lives throw our way, and Jon's delivery is so charismatic. It's worth the listen for that alone. And if you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships with guests. I use systems, I use tiny habits. I've got a free course all about this check out Six-Minute Networking. It's free and it's over at jordanharbinger.com/course. All right, here's Jon Taffer.

[00:01:13] Well, I'm fascinated by the break them down to build them up style of Bar Rescue. I got to say though, where did you learn to do that? Was your dad like that?

Jon Taffer: [00:01:22] You know, my mother was great at carrying me down, but not very good at building me up.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:25] Okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:26] So maybe, you know, sometimes you do things in life because they weren't done to you. So maybe I just recall what it was felt like not to be built back up again, that made me do it. I wish I had a better answer for you, but it just seems to come natural to me. I have the kind of personality where I want to leave you in a better place. I don't want to leave you weakened. So, so if I knock you down, that's contrary to my personality actually. So I almost have to build you back up again or I can't live with myself.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:52] Do you feel guilty saying like “You're a fool. You're scrolling this all up,” or do you know you're doing it for the greater good later?

Jon Taffer: [00:01:58] That's a great question. And nobody's ever asked me that question quite that way before. Here's the thing, sometimes when I'm screaming or knocking you down, it's not about you at all because sometimes the owner in a Bar Rescue episode, almost isn't worthy of the effort. So I'm focused on their family. So it's their family that motivates me to beat and to knock you down. So I'm thinking of your wife, I'm thinking of your kids. I'm thinking of the fact that there's a house that might be on the line, cars that might be on the line. So my inspiration is always to protect the good, not be motivated by the bad. So I'm doing this for his wife, even though I'm not saying it that way, but I have to have an inspiration and sometimes the inspiration isn't the individual I'm talking to. Sometimes it's the employees, the family, the spouse, and a number of different things. And when you fighting for something rather than against something you’re far more effective. So I'd rather fight for the wife through you than just go at you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:05] Yeah, that makes sense. I've noticed on the show a lot of people who are really great at knowing their bombing, their businesses bombing, that's why you're there. But these people are overachievers when it comes to making excuses for why they're failing.

Jon Taffer: [00:03:17] Oh yeah, because that's a lot of ego.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:19] Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:03:20] So it can never be their fault. Of course, Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:23] Why wouldn’t?

Jon Taffer: [00:03:23] I mean come on! It's got to be somebody else's fault because they're so perfect. And when I wrote my book, Don’t BS Yourself, the whole premise of that was ego is a really powerful thing. And I always say this, you'll smile that you ever noticed the guy with the biggest ego has the thin wallet.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:43] Yeah, yeah. Of course. They're masters of self-delusion.

Jon Taffer: [00:03:47] That's right. That's right, they really are. And you know, I know in your work too, I mean we're not real then. You're lying to ourselves. It's the ultimate betrayal to yourself is when you do that stuff because if you're not honest with yourself, then how do you ever move your life in a positive direction? Because you're starting from a point to fantasy, so nobody can succeed if they're not honest with themselves. That's deep. When you really think about it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:15] It is. And it's got to be really hard because people will go, “Fine, I'll be honest with myself, but I still want to -- I still think a pirate bar can work or whatever the hell they're lying to themselves about.

Jon Taffer: [00:04:24] That word but is a powerful word, because the but before it is what you think, I want to hear. After the word but is how you really feel. And it always works that way. So you know, this is a really great room. It’s cold in here.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:43] It’s cold up here, yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:04:43] Whatever. That but is an identifier that honestly flows after typically. That’s the way you feel. It doesn't mean it's honest, but the way you feel.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:53] Right, sure, the way you feel. Yeah, it's the compliment sandwich kind of like, “Hey, this sugarcoating and then real feeling or real opinion,” and it makes sense that you're able to drill down to this because you have an astonishingly high rate. I researched the rate of success for Bar Rescue. It's like 77 something percent, which for reality TV is like, I don't know, 68 percent higher than normal.

Jon Taffer: [00:05:14] 30, 40 percent anyway.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:17] Yeah, sure.

Jon Taffer: [00:05:17] I'm really proud of that. The differences though in a lot of the other shows that are similar to mine or chefs.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:23] Yeah, yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:05:24] They migrate into the kitchen, they're comfortable around the food, the recipes. I have a chef and the mixologist as you know. But I'm a businessman, so you know, I come in with a broader view. I moved to where it's bleeding. I don't migrate to the kitchen. Sometimes the kitchen isn't the problem. So on the other shows the kitchen's always the problem because they're chef. So I think that flexibility and movement, looking at it as a business much as a kitchen operation I think makes the show a lot better.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:52] Yeah. It's that -- what's that thing where you every pro, if you're a hammer, every problem is nail. So if you're a chef, every problem's in the kitchen, right?

Jon Taffer: [00:05:59] That’s right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:00] But if you're a business owner, if you're a business consultant, you can look at the whole picture, which I think is interesting.

Jon Taffer: [00:06:04] Yeah. And food is, is to me no different than you selling a t-shirt.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:08] Sure.

Jon Taffer: [00:06:09] You know, and I don't want to discount it. The food is very much a commodity and there's million chefs in the world and you can bring in Italian chefs and German chef, sushi chefs, and all different chefs. And there's so many well-educated chefs out there today. The fixing the food is easier than fixing the business to be honest with you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:27] Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that does make sense. I know that you do post-mortem breakdowns of your shows. Is that you? Do you watch every episode after you film it and then beat yourself up like David Letterman? I mean what do you do?

Jon Taffer: [00:06:38] I know. Yes, well I have two roles, so I'm a host. I want to be a really good host, and I get that some of it is talent, but I believe Jordan, that 60 percent of being a television host is skill. For example, silence, when there's cameras on the silence is a scary thing. When you start as a rookie host, anytime there's silence, you jump in, you want to feel it, but yet silence is a great tool. Once you build the confidence of using silence, I'll say something and shut up and the next person who talks loses, and if this 30 seconds of silence, I'm okay with that. I wasn't going to be here.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:07:13] Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:07:15] I didn't have the courage to be as aggressive as I am in the beginning because I wasn't sure I'd get the hug at the end. Now I know I will so I can be more aggressive. It really has been a very educational process. So to answer your question, as a producer, I watch every cut, and when we shoot Bar Rescue, there's about 200 hours of video, and we send these, producing into editing base and they're in there for about eight or 10 weeks into editing base, and we'll go through about eight cuts. And the first cut might be 90 minutes or so, and the next cut we'll get down about 80 minutes, about 70 minutes and we have to finish up in about 42 minutes. And I'm involved in all those cuts. I watch all those cuts. In the beginning, I didn't watch them as a television producer because I wasn't. I watched them to make sure the facts were right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:01] Oh, okay. And we mix things properly, and I was very focused on accuracy and sciences in the beginning. Now, eight years later, I am a producer, so I look at a lot more. I look at lighting, I look at shots, I will, but watching that as important and that's how we hone our skills.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:15] Yeah, I agree. I always ask content creators, podcast producers, hosts, whatever, what are you doing to improve your own skills? And they're like, “Well, I just keep practicing.” But you probably have seen this, Bar Rescue has been in business for 10 years. They've been practicing.

Jon Taffer: [00:08:27] Oh yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:27] They’re just practicing the wrong things.

Jon Taffer: [00:08:28] Absolutely right. They’re practicing how enough to make money.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:31] Right, yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:08:31] But yes, I study it. I do. And I've learned to do so my hair with, I don't care about that stuff. I don't look at my sport jacket and I don't look into it. I focus on the content, the pause, the structure, how could I have done this better? How could I have made it more authentic? How could I brought more out for them? Those are the things you have when you revaluate it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:50] I think it would be really easy to focus on the wrong thing because if I tell someone, “Hey, watch your show or listen to your show or watch your own YouTube videos.” There's a lot of self-flagellation so beating yourself up over it. There's a lot of all, “You know I should have worn a different jacket,” and not a whole lot of, “You screwed up because you didn’t ask the right questions.

Jon Taffer: [00:09:08] Those are the aesthetics. Don't worry about your aesthetics, focus on the content. You know, we must have compelling content. You know, it's interesting, I wished that YouTube and channels like that provided us with the same kind of information I get from television. For example, you know, a TV show is rated by quarter hours.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:24] Really?

Jon Taffer: [00:09:25] So I know what your ratings are of the show for each quarter hour. So if I start with a strong first quarter hour and I drop off in the third quarter hour, so it’s a lousy episode, it's not compelling television. So I watch that stuff because that's my audience talking to me. That's telling me what they think. So I really watch each of those quarter hours and I think to myself, “Okay, so if I'm losing viewership in the third quarter hour, why wasn't it compelling and what could I have done?” I'm not going to BS, real is real. What could I have done back then as a host to drive more compelling content? That I've gotten them to speak more. Maybe there was another issue they could've resolved, maybe there was another problem we didn't discuss. But that's really important because that's the ultimate review. What I think is one thing that they think is everything.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:12] Yes, of course.

Jon Taffer: [00:10:13]You've got to combine both.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:14] Yeah. It's got to be kind of hard to look at a piece of work and go, “This is really good. Very proud of this one.” And then see kind of the speaking of ego taken a dent since seeing the audience drop off and going. Okay, well, so something I love. How has your taste changed from doing what you think is the best to catering to what the audience wants to see on an entertainment platform at the end of the day?

Jon Taffer: [00:10:35] Yes. And then the other fun thing is, I've never talked about this before, so I'm enjoying this conversation with you. Is the throwing stuff, I don't throw stuff.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:44] Literary throwing?

Jon Taffer: [00:10:44] I mean throwing, I don’t throw stuff you know what I mean? This started with the compression of time and we realize it. I've got to impact this guy. I got to impact them so I would push some.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:54] Yeah, like a plate of food or whatever.

Jon Taffer: [00:10:56] Then a couple of episodes later, I realized that that was pretty impactful, and the worked, not only on TV, but it worked with them. So the next thing I pushed it a little more. 10 episodes later, I'm throwing stuff all around the room and I'm realizing this is a tool and I'm not doing it for television, and here's why. In Bar Rescue, think about it. If this was your bar and usually your employees, the minute you think I'm doing this for the camera.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:22] Right.

Jon Taffer: [00:11:23] The entire credibility falls apart.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:25] Credibility. Yeah, your credibility goes out the window.

Jon Taffer: [00:11:26] So the cameras are gone. This is you and me, and this is real. So you know it's real.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:30] Right. I'm covered in enchiladas.

Jon Taffer: [00:11:32] That's why you get mad at me, because it's real. If you thought it was for the camera, you'd laugh at me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:36] Sure, yeah. Good point.

Jon Taffer: [00:11:38] So that reality is assured by the way people are reacting. So I love it when people say it's fake. How do you fake that? The guy's pissed. I mean he's really angry. So anyway, I get a kick out of that. But it's not deviating from reality of course, it's just presenting it differently so it's more impactful, and if it's more impactful to you as the owner, then is also going to be more impactful for the audience. So it's great. They work in tandem with each other.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:04] Are you even able to go to a restaurant now without sort of dismantling what's going on in the business or restaurant or bar for that matter? I've got a buddy, Jayson Gaignard, who runs really high end events and what he does, he's obviously a big fan of what you're doing. He goes to -- he runs these events that cost probably half a million dollars to put on. So he'll go to the hotel six months ahead of time and he orders a bunch of drinks, waters or whatever, and he'll leave an empty glass over there and he'll leave an empty glass over there, and he'll just sit down and he'll count how many employees walk by or you would call them skids. How many employees walk by the glass, and if they get to -- if the number gets too high, he doesn't go to the hotel for the event.

Jon Taffer: [00:12:39] Yeah, well we'll do assessments like that as well. It's funny, I was known years ago mall developers and I would put my own restaurants in malls. They normally take you out to Denver, it's customerary.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:48] Okay.

Jon Taffer: [00:12:48] So the landlord, if you're looking in his mall, he'll take you out to dinner then. When I go to a restaurant, I said, if I'm building a steak house, I want to go to the steak house across the street. But then I order one of everything on a menu and I do that often. So I'll go into a restaurant sometimes even by myself, I'll ask for a six top, and I'll order one of everything. I would say bringing in any way you want, I have a few of everything. So I can see the plates, the height, the presentation, the color is how they do it, the price point, the perceive value and all of that. I also see how they function under stress.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:17] Sure, yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:13:18] Yeah, it's a great way to assess and I recommend that everybody do that. If you're planning your wedding or planning a family event, go to the venue, experience the venue first because what they do for someone else's, what they're going to do for you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:30] What are some red flags that you've seen since you've been behind the scenes of so many businesses where you think as a customer you go, “I'm not eating here,” or “I'm not going to do business with this place.” Just from the front of the bar. I'm sitting down and I see X and I know I got to get out the door.

Jon Taffer: [00:13:45] There's a couple of really good markers. Sometimes you can see it from the parking lot.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:49] Really?

Jon Taffer: [00:13:49] Sure, I'm with the parking lot is a must. The bushes are unmanicured, the cigarette butts by the front door. This hand prints all of the big glass when you walk in. I mean if the front of their business looks that way, imagine what the back of it looks like.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:01] yeah, good point.

Jon Taffer: [00:14:01] So sometimes I know it right from outside. The other thing is I call it three steps in. Those three steps mean everything to you, Jordan. So step one, glance and smell. The smell isn't right. That's a step two glance. Your eyes land on the brightest thing in the room, always. The most colorful or brightest. So if you land on something that's a mess, something that communicates confusion, disorganization, that's a powerful indicator. The ultimate one is stickiness. If you touch a menu, sit down at the table, pick up the salt and pepper shaker. If it's sticky, that's a big indicator.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:39] Oh, man.

Jon Taffer: [00:14:40] Next, touch the menu. If it's sticky.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:44] Yeah. Because if the menus are dirty, imagine what the silverware and the plates and the cookware is.

Jon Taffer: [00:14:48] But that's cross contamination. What makes sticky? That's bacteria. That's food. That's protein. So now, you touched that menu, your cross contaminated. Your run your finger to fix you hair, now it's in your hair. You rub your face, it's on your face. You're rub your eyes. This is cross contamination.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:05] Oh, man. Yeah, that's gross.

Jon Taffer: [00:15:08] So then the, then your wife touches your fork to take a bite of your food. Now she's crossed. And so what you're seeing is cross contamination. So if it's happening there, it's probably happening in the kitchen. Sticky salt and pepper shakers are really strong indicators of this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:22] Sure, oh, that makes sense, that makes sense. And I'm just now going through every place I've ever eaten in my entire life.

Jon Taffer: [00:15:27] And you felt that happened.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:28] Yeah. And you go, “Oh this one menu is dirty.” A little kid must've had their hands on it right before me. And the answer is, “That's been dirty since I was in high school.”

Jon Taffer: [00:15:36] In good restaurants. That's a specific function. Cleaning menus, cleaning salt and pepper shakers at the end of every shift. So if they're not working nights enough to do that basic thing then something’s not right.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:49] You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest at Jon Taffer. We'll be right back after this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:55] This episode is sponsored in part by Skillshare. Jen is in love with some Skillshare. She takes classes on everything from Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Audition, whatever it's called to how to organize your bookshelf. I mean they just have freaking everything and it's essentially an online learning community for creators. They've got over 25,000 I think, classes and design and business and bookshelves and all that stuff. So if you're curious, you're creative, you got some career stuff going, you got the social media marketing, mobile photography, creative writing, illustration, new passions and side hustles. You can get some new professional skills there. Skillshares there to keep you learning and reach those New Year goals and classes are actually better than books for learning actual skills. You know me, I read literally hundreds of books each year and Skillshare is great for picking up some discreet skill that you can actually apply. It's harder to do that from books, so that's why I like Skillshare and lifelong learning as you know is important to me as it is probably to use. Since you're listening to the show in the first place. Jason, have you checked out Skillshare yet?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:16:59] I love Skillshare. I'm actually doing some final cut pro classes now because I got the new drone and I have to do video editing, and it's great because you can just go in and find the skill that you want inside of the class or you can take the whole class if you want, but if I'm looking for one particular thing, I can find the class that teaches it. Go in, learn it, get back to work. Well worth every single penny.

[00:17:22 Join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners. Get two months of Skillshare for free. That's right. Skillshare is offering our listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000 classes for free to sign up. Go to skillshare.com/harbinger. Again, go to skillshare.com/harbinger, H-A-R-B-I-N-G-E-R, to start your two months now. That's skillshare.com/harbinger.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:47] You know someone called me Jordan Harginburger the other day. That was a good.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:50] Harginburger?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:51] Yeah, so it's not slash harbinburger. It's Harbinger you know, just in case anybody wasn't sure.

[00:17:59] This episode is sponsored in part by BiOptimizers. This is my friend's company, so I'm a little biased because he sent me a bunch of these things and I thought I'm good. I don't need this. I will tell you that probiotics are a game changer and according to my friend and show fan, Naveen Jain. He's the founder of Viome and he listens to the show a lot. This at-home test that he created, measures gut bacteria count and almost no probiotics are showing up in people's gut analysis, which means that 99 percent of probiotics out there do not colonize your gut as claimed. Big surprise. Stuff you take doesn't work, right? So research shows we actually need this good bacteria to fight the bad guys and the solution here is this single strain proteolytic probiotic called P3-OM, and what P3-OM does is it uses a natural process to essentially upgrade a well-researched probiotic strain. And the result is this super strain.

[00:18:53] Normally, normally something we associate with horror movies and zombie flicks, but this is kind of the Navy SEAL of probiotics. It kicks bad bacteria's butts. And P3-OM, it's patented, it proves the strain is proteolytic, which means it digests protein. It's antiviral, it's antiretroviral, because I didn't really realize this now that I think about it, but viruses are proteins that eliminates pathogens, it eliminates waste. It is maintainable in the human digestive system. And if you don't think P3-OM works, go to p3om.com/jordan, and you can literally watch this enzyme dissolve a piece of raw steak. You can watch it. There's a video. It's pretty cool. Imagine that going on in your gut. I did. It was really neat. I'm a dork in other words. Try P3-OM risk-free today and they have a great guarantee. The best one I've seen in the industry, it's a full 365 day money back guarantee. It's a full year guarantee, so if it doesn't work and you'll know right away, the next morning after you take it, trust me, they'll refund all of your money, even if you take it for a few months. So go to p3om.com/jordan and use the coupon code JORDAN20 to get 20 percent off your orders as well.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:01] I've been using this for the past two weeks, and I got to say it is a game changer. My gut viome was destroyed after I had surgery and all the antibiotics they gave me, and let's just say things are kind of working like they should now. I'm not going to get graphic. But man, it really works.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:19] Yeah, the proof is in the pudding, so they say when it comes to probiotics.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:23] The proof is in the lack of pudding.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:25] All right.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:26] Don't forget. We have a worksheet for today's episode so you can make sure you solidify your understanding of the key takeaways from Jon Taffer. That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support is what keeps us on the air and I'm not joking about that and to learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. And if you're listening in Overcast, please feel free to hit that little star next to the episode. It really gets us up in the rankings and we appreciate it and if you want more info on how to subscribe, go to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now back to our show with Jon Taffer.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:08] In the book, Don't BS Yourself. You talk about a lot of people, business owners especially are really, really busy, but they're not prioritizing and you teach them how to prioritize. Do you have any advice on that? Because I think any entrepreneur is always really, really busy. And you find out that they did their Twitter and they answered some Instagram comments and then they empty their spam folder, but they didn't get to any of their book writing or any filming or anything real.

Jon Taffer: [00:21:32] Yeah. You know, to me, I believe that to me a business project is like a ball on my desk, and I need to move every ball every day. So to me, moving those balls is more important in Twitter with you today with confidence. So I can only have so many balls. I can do about seven, eight balls, to move them every single day, if I don't move them every day, I freak out about myself. So I don't start with those optional activities. I start with required activities. For me, I wake up early in the morning, first thing I do is get a cup of coffee and I'm on my computer. I'm responding to emails and doing all that stuff. When I head to the office like this morning when I met you here, I've done two hours’ worth of emails at home. My computer is clear right now.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:10] Right. So you have to think about it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:12] I am caught up. I've taken care of that and now I have the time to spend with you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:17] Right.

Jon Taffer: [00:22:18] But you know, had I not done that this morning, I'd be freaked out right now. The district pathway, this way. So you know, the question was stay ahead of it, of that curb. The other thing that then I've learned so much about time management is we are never out of time. If finding a purple jacket was the most important thing in the world to you today, would you find one on one?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:38] I had to find one, yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:22:39] You'd get up early this morning, right?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:41] Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:22:41] You stay up late tonight.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:42] It’s Vegas. There's purple jackets 24/7.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:22:44] But you'd be on a computer for hours. You would find that purple jacket.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:47] Of course.

Jon Taffer: [00:22:48] So suggesting that you didn't have the time to find it. That doesn't mean you doesn’t have time. It means it wasn't important enough to you. So I always tell people, when you tell me, “Oh Jon, I didn't have the time.” That is what you're saying. What you're saying is you blew me off.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:59] Deprioritized.

Jon Taffer: [00:23:00] Exactly right. So you know, time is everything. It's the one thing that we can't replace. You know to me, I'm very top time oriented and I believe that revenue cures it all. You know when I talk to people in business seminars and they say, “No Jon, my labor cost is high, my marketing cost is high, promotion costs is high and my tech cost is high, and they shaved dimes and downs. That's taping from the customer, right? So I cut my labor schedules, I cut my product, I cut, I cut to try to make my numbers work. But if I could raise your revenue by 30 percent, you wouldn't have cut clause problems anymore. You won’t have labor cost cut anymore. So revenue cures all. It's the ultimate pacifier of every problem that exists in our lives. Think of the problems that marriages have. They tend to be financial issues.

[00:23:49] So if we focus on top line, which means I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do is how do I monetize myself right now? How do I drive revenue? That is the first thing I have to do today. Then I can deal with all of the other things that I have to, but there's nothing more important to an entrepreneur than revenue. And if they don't wake up every morning and think about revenue first thing probably shouldn't be an entrepreneur.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:12] Yeah, I agree. I agree. I know you hire or you tell people to hire and clearly you do hire for personality and then you train the skills later. I see a lot of business owners doing that backwards where they're like, “Look, my tech guys in A-hole, but he gets the job done.” I think we've all been guilty of that. My tech guys watching this, I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about somebody else, but how do you know? Well, first of all, that's a hard lesson for a lot of us to learn. How do we know that we're going to be able to train for skill or have you just seen that somebody with the right personality is going to be able to handle the job?

Jon Taffer: [00:24:43] Well, you know, if we look at our own business experiences and I asked, I say Jordan, I want you to close your eyes and picture the best person you've ever worked with. You're not going to tell me they had the best technical skills.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:54] No.

Jon Taffer: [00:24:54] You're going to pick somebody with attitude.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:57]That's right.

Jon Taffer: [00:24:57] Team work, skill, aggressiveness, passion. Those are the things that you define greatness by yourself. So why wouldn't you hire for them? Why would you put something that you don't even identify as greatness in your own brain ahead? So the resume doesn't mean anything. It's all about the personality. So the why I interview people is I break it down. So interviews are complete bull, I said you got under pressure. You know what I want to hear, “Oh, I'm great on depression. You’re two hours late and you’re hysterical cry.” So I don't do that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:29] That’s funny.

Jon Taffer: [00:25:29] I'm going to say things to you like Jordan, what did you do in high school?

Tell me about yourself.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:34] That's how you started our interviewing on your show.

Jon Taffer: [00:25:36] Because it tells me about your personality. What did you like to do? What did you not like to do? What do you do with your free time? Those are the things that are important to me. What are your energy levels? What is your inquisitive? What is your passion? Do you love people? Do you love communicating? What are the things that are really the attributes that I know can equate to greatness? And once I get that out of the way, then I might look at your resume for experience, only to figure out where I got to train you, but that's not a hiring decision. The experience is not the hiring decision. You give me somebody who's never run a nightclub, a bar, a restaurant in the world time in their lives, never worked in one before, with the right personality in two weeks, and I'll show you a great channel manager.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:19] I see you go into the bars and look at the people and of course, it's reality TV or it's TV in general. So there's a lot of time probably between when you walk in and you see the issues. But I noticed when you walk in and the employees are lined up, there was one episode particularly I think it was also the Pirate Bar. I'm obsessed with that episode. It's so ridiculous. But you said there's a cultural problem here and it was kind of like the first thing you said when you walked in other than, “Okay, this is a weird bar.” It was just, “Hey, there's a cultural problem here.” You can see that right away. What are you looking for when you see a cultural disaster right in front of you? Like what does the identifying factor?

Jon Taffer: [00:26:53] I think a cultural problem. I could use another word, I could use the word dysfunctional.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:58]Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:26:58] Right? It would be another just phrase to communicate the same thing. If somebody is disjointed, disconnected or dissatisfied that this is, then it's a dysfunctional and dysfunction like that tends to be a culture within the business. So I look for those dises that disconnected, disengaged, all of those things and they're powerful and sometimes you just see it in a way somebody walk, you see it in a way they stand in the meeting, you see the fact that they won't stick up for themselves because you can tell they've been beaten down every time they do. You just pick up on these things that aren't said, but you feel them and you know, and I think that's what makes me a good TV host is I can sense that and I'll jump on wherever that takes me first.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:44] Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:27:45] And that begins to expose the biggest problems. If you had a business transaction with somebody and how the transaction is over and you're saying, “I'm not paying you.” This isn't about the money. There's an underlying reasons there. And sometimes a surface problem isn't the problem at all. It's that underlying problem that is making you not do it. To them, you’re mad that you didn't do it. For you, it's not about not doing it right. It's about what made you not do it, so we have to get to that place to try to resolve anything and that can be ugly sometimes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:17] I see that, and I've seen when you walk into the bar and you confront the first guy who's resistant, a lot of times they quit on the spot. It's kind of funny to watch you shine a light on a -- kind of proverbial shine the light on the floor and the cockroaches just runaway, and everybody else that's left is either willing to shape up or is kind of already in that position to do so. You see this a lot.

Jon Taffer: [00:28:39] They're committed.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:40] They're committed, yeah. They're committed or they're at least willing to give it a college try. But usually the person who's like, “I'm not changing anything.” They're in the parking lot before the first commercial break.

Jon Taffer: [00:28:49] Because I don't have time for it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:51] Yeah. And they know that.

Jon Taffer: [00:28:52] In life we use the term, “Get on the bus.” So what I'm going to do is the next few weeks I'm going to get everybody on the bus. I could work with you talking to motivate and inspire you. I will get you on a bus. I don't have the time, you've got to get on the bus right now or I'm going to run over you because I don't have the time for that. I got three days. So that time is a ticking clock in my brain. I can't tell you how powerful that is during the shoot of Bar Rescue. I'm in trouble before you even begin.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:21] Yeah, you're out of time already.

Jon Taffer: [00:29:22] Before you even start. So it creates this intensity in me that that is unnatural, right?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:29] Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:29:29] Because of that time compression, ut yet everything that happens after it is in fact quite natural because at the time compression.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:3] If you had more time, you would handle things differently or you think the way you got to go and now as effective?

Jon Taffer: [00:29:40] If I had more time, I would put forth more of an effort to win you over than force you over.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:45] Okay. So less plate throwing more persuasion.

Jon Taffer: [00:29:47] Oh, I would be much more of an inspiring, let's get together, let's blah, blah blah. But when you don't have the time for that, it's you know what? Either get on board or because I can't -- I will sacrifice youth for the greater good. When I have more time, I'm not as quick to sacrifice you for the greater good. I'm much more inclined to try to pull everybody in. The thing about I don’t have time.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:06] Yeah, you don’t have time. Yeah, the weakest link. Goodbye.

Jon Taffer: [00:30:10] Absolutely. You see, we've talked a lot about terrible employees and do you see plenty of them every episode has one or two or owners usually. What do you look for in somebody who you think this person is very promotable, this person is underutilized because that's maybe less common, especially on the show?

Jon Taffer: [00:30:25] You know it's interesting. Sometimes the greatest managers are the ones that bubble up on their own

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:32] Right.

Jon Taffer: [00:30:31] Right? They just take the responsibility before it's even given to them. They do the cleaning, they do this. Suddenly they're helping train people and they're just natural at it and it's a leadership skill. You're that way. You just have this ability to slip into that role naturally. And if he worked with 10 people on a project and you weren't paid more than anyone else, you would probably assume more responsibility and you would've -- that's just the way we are. Those are the people who should be promoted, and I'm going to say something that's going to upset some people. Sometimes when I go to these businesses and I see a bartender and people say “He's been a bartender 10 years. He should be the manager.” No. If he's been a bartender for 10 years and he hasn’t bubbled up, then he's the last guy who should be the manager and that's where owners make a mistake.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:16] Interesting.

Jon Taffer: [00:0:31:17] Some people are comfortable where they are and you promote them right out of the company. So that guy who's been a bartender for 10 years, he's been comfortable being a bartender for 10 years, leave him alone. The person who's not comfortable, who's bubbling up on their own, that's the one who should be promoted, even if they've only been with you for a couple of months.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:34] When you say bubble up, you're looking for somebody who voluntarily takes on responsibility, not just somebody who's trying to be the leader by telling other people what to do.

Jon Taffer: [00:31:41] No, no. Somebody who inherently cares, and starts doing things and becomes a leader. Not a jerk, but a leader. And not killing bodies to advance themselves.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:51] You must see a lot of actually really successful businesses, especially working here in Vegas, businesses that don't need to be on Bar Rescue cause they're trying to get from 90 percent to 100 percent not we're going to out of business next week to survival level. When you see those businesses, what is the primary difference in leadership that you see there? Obviously there's more skill involved. The leaders are better in some way, but how?

Jon Taffer: [00:32:15] You find that a great operation like that. Everybody's a leader and what I mean by that as I'm not saying confusion is not -- there's no a levels of management. Even as a server, you're acting like a leader, you're resolving problems as you going, you're anticipating, you're staying ahead of things. You've been trained to be empowered in your world and that empowerment makes you better at what you do, makes you anticipate, makes sure grab a glass from the table that's not even yours on the way. Makes you help each other and there's something that happens when everybody has that attitude. That's what drives greatness in any business. And when you have people that are working for you that aren't there for a job, but are there to accomplish something that then that's really powerful. And this city's a great example of that in Las Vegas because people move here to be in this business and there's no other industry in the city. Las Vegas is only hospitality, no farming, no manufacturing. There's none of that kind of stuff here, unless it's support and getting a quick. But that hospitality nature in the city cultivates that attitude where people want to get ahead in this city. There's huge opportunity in hospitality. You can be a server today and run one of the greatest venues in the world in five years. That's aspiring to people. But my point is that leadership exists at every level.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:29] Is that something you think you can train or do you think that you again have to hire for somebody who's willing to take leadership at every level?

Jon Taffer: [00:33:36] Yeah. I disagree with almost every book ever written on this topic. I don't believe that you can make a leader.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:42] Really?

Jon Taffer: [00:33:42] I don't believe you can train a leader. I don't believe you can make a leader. You know the pied piper, you would've followed him off a cliff. Great entrepreneurs that are failures, complete failures, sometimes they're idiots but people follow them. They come on board. They worked for free. They take stock deals. This guy by textbook doesn't even know what the hell he's doing. He shouldn't be leading anyone but he is. Leadership is a trait and not a skill. When my daughter was six years old in daycare, the daycare center called her “The Little General,” and that was their nickname for her because she was the one who lined everybody up and coordinate. She was a leader at six, I was that way when I was a kid. Leadership is born. It's not given.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:29] That's interesting. I was a bossy kid. I don't know if I was a leader, but who can tell now, because of course your friends call you bossy, your mom calls you a leader. You don't know who to believe 20 years later.

Jon Taffer: [00:34:39.9 Well, there’s a fine line each way, aggressive and ass you know. That line you might say that, “I'm going to ass.” I might say “I'm aggressive,” and that line changes person to person.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:47] Do you apply some of the concepts from Bar Rescue to your personal life? Because there's a lot of people who watch this. We were watching it last night and were like, “I would love to just have Jon Taffer talk to, you know, some everybody's got somebody they want you to talk to and throw a plate at, who's not working at a restaurant or a bar and they just want you to straighten them out, but you must be applying some of this in your personal life.

Jon Taffer: [00:35:06] Yeah. It's interesting. Since I'm young, I've always had friends come to me and talk to me about problems and issues. And I've always had this ability that people want to talk to me. I've never betrayed people. I always am honest with people and I think they know that and I'll keep a secret as well, but I've always had this thing about talking with people my whole life. I never thought it would turn into this. I never thought I'd be on television. This was never anything I ever considered doing. It was somebody said, “You should do it.” I wrote something up and “Grandma, here I am.” But connecting with people has always been a large part of me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:38] Who told you, you should be on TV? Were you doing similar things to Bar Rescue, and they're like, “We've got a film this?”

Jon Taffer: [00:35:43] No, I was actually, I'm a public speaker and I give about 30, 40 speeches a year and I hadn't done it for 30 years. And I'll speak at major industry conventions and trade shows and things like that. I've spoken all over the world. I was giving a speech and at the end of the speech, somebody came up to me and said, “You should be on television.” So I said, “You know what? I wrote something up. It was called On the Rocks.” I haven't told the story often. It called On the Rocks, it was a three page write up, and this will inspire your listeners and I used to work with Paramount as a consultant in a television project. So I went to my friends at Paramount. I mean went to the head of television in Paramount showed him my write off, I said, “What do you think?” And he looks at me, “He says, Jon, you will never be on television.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:21] Ouch.

Jon Taffer: [00:36:21] You're too old.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:23] Oh man!

Jon Taffer: [00:36:23] You're not good looking enough. Forget it. Shows like this, having a hunky young guys, guys like you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:30] Thank you.

Jon Taffer: [00:36:30] I’m not guys like you. So I drive out of the Paramount gates completely demoralized, but I'm not that way. When somebody says “No.” I'm going to make it a yes. So I went, I shot my own three minutes as reel at a friend's bar, sent that sizzle reel to four production companies that I didn't know, but people talking about try this one. I got the email addresses, I got four offers.

Jon Taffer: [00:36:51] Really? Wow.

Jon Taffer: [00:36:52] So every offer was a good offer. So now I had to hire an entertainment attorney and reading contracts. I've never read anything like this before. I have no idea I would do. So hire an entertainment lawyer and I chose company called Three Ball Entertainment because they had a great show on TV at the time called The Biggest Loser.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:06] Oh yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:37:07] Really good quality reality production company. So they weren't the best deal, but they were the best company. So I went with them. When I signed with them, the network picked up the show four days later. So they pre-sold it, before they show me. And it premiered in less than a year from the day that guy said to me, “You will never be on television.” And he didn't say it quite that nicely. He had an F bomb in there. You will never F be on television, Jon. In less than a year, the show premiered.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:36] That guy was the Jon Taffer of television [indiscernible][0:37:39]

Jon Taffer: [00:37:39] And now 189 episodes, and eight years later, every new season we send them a note to make sure he watch the season.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:44] Yeah, and he's probably gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, passing up an opportunity like Bar Rescue as a producer or whoever did the act acquisition, it's got to be rough. It's like a not signing a band.

Jon Taffer: [00:37:56] Yeah, there’s a couple who didn't offer me the right deal and this and that, but it's a sense of real pride for me, but that's television. One person hates it, the next person signs it and it becomes a big hit.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:07] We've talked about ego taking a beating and things like that. You had a whole life before television obviously doing the speaking, consulting, and things like that. How have you dealt with being -- now you're a media personality, now everyone recognizes you in at least the Western world where they serve alcohol. How have you dealt with that? Because every -- I do a YouTube video on someone's like, “What you couldn't sit up straight?” And I'm thinking, “Oh man, you must get a thousand of that every day.” People are pretty awful when they don't know you and you're in the spotlight. How do you deal with that?

Jon Taffer: [00:38:37] I don’t. I let the fans deal with it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:39] Oh, you just let people argue?

Jon Taffer: [00:38:40] Oh, yeah, no. If somebody said that that Taffer is a real asshole, the fans will take care of it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:44] That’ll be the nicest thing to say on YouTube.

Jon Taffer: [00:38:46] I'm really lucky. I'm really lucky because my fans feel very positive about me. I don't see a lot of negative posts and stuff on my channels when they do, I ignore them because I don't take it personally and they can certainly feel that way. When 91 million people watch you, those couple of hundred thousand who insult you, you really don't care.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:03] Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Jon Taffer: [00:39:04] But I find that itself pleases itself. Fans would disagree with him and fans will defend me. And so I let the ecosystem take its course. I'm not a casual individual.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:15] No, that's for sure.

Jon Taffer: [00:39:16] I'm not one to turn on Facebook and do some casual posts in the morning sitting in my bedroom. I'm more deliberate than that as an individual. So I don't get caught with my pants down very often, if you know what I mean, because I'm not quick to do those types of things that, that aren't more deliberate in nature. So I think that that insulates me from a lot of that negative stuff that other people, because they're too loose --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:39] It's true.

Jon Taffer: [00:39:39] In their approach in that looseness is exposing. I'm not that way. I'm more deliberate so I don't have that exposure.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:45] It's funny because you're really authentic as we've had a couple of conversations now on taping off, but there's a difference between authenticity and like you said, that that looseness where you're just kind of the casualness of media.

Jon Taffer: [00:39:59] Oh, I’m me, but me is deliberate.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:00] Right, right. And then it's when it's off camera, you're the same guy, but you're not like, “Let me do a selfie of me walking into my office.”

Jon Taffer: [00:40:07] Absolutely. With my hat side right here. I'm not going to do that stuff. I just don't go there.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:11] You mentioned that entrepreneurs are a specific breed of people. Some people aren't that that they think they are. If I'm sitting at home right now watching us and I'm thinking, well, I want to be a business owner or I am an entrepreneur. How do I know if I'm BSing myself and I'm just pretending because wantrepreneur is a term now, because somehow it's not cool to have a job anymore. I don't know when that happened but it did, and I never thought of myself -- I never even used the word entrepreneur. I just started a business and then people started using it, I don't know, 10 years later. How do I know if I'm BSing myself and I'm not cut out to run my own shop?

Jon Taffer: [00:40:44] There's really several types of people and we fit into these categories into these buckets unfortunately. Entrepreneurs think a certain way, managers think another way, and accounting process people thinking that way. They're very different mentalities. Process people don't make good entrepreneurs. Sometimes management people don't make good entrepreneurs because they're inherently operations and risk adverse.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:12] Right, yes.

Jon Taffer: [00:41:13] Whereas the entrepreneur has a completely different pattern. There's a book that I recommend. It's a short book. I didn't write it, I have no involvement. It was written by a person who I've since met, developed a friendship with by the name of Michael Gerber. He wrote a book called The E-Myth Revisited. And it's a short book, and you know the last thing in the world that a new entrepreneur wants to do is buy themselves a job. So you make 80 grand a year now as a technical guy somewhere. So now you open up your own tech company, you're working 10 hours more per day. You've got the burden of taxes and pay, and now you're making 60 grand.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:48] Yeah, if you're lucky.

Jon Taffer: [00:41:49] So you bought yourself a job, you had the same income without the liability before. So that's what entrepreneurs really need, and E-Myth really categorizes people into these buckets really well, and I think it helps people identify if in fact they fit that entrepreneurial model or not. Now, if you are one of the process or technical people and you don't fit into that entrepreneur box and you want to get rich, that's easy. Came up with an entrepreneur, put together a great product in process and get rich together.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:20] exactly.

Jon Taffer: [00:42:20] And that's the Silicon Valley story.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:22] It is, yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:42:23] Because people that write programs are typically not great entrepreneurs, but that entrepreneur needs that programmer.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:28] Oh man.

Jon Taffer: [00:42:29] Coding to get it done.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:30] And it's not even just the technical skills I think we need. I, at least from my own experience, I need people around me that go “Calm the hell down. We're going to do this thing first that we planned last week. Great idea, Jordan, but slow down. We'll do that next quarter.” Because if we didn't have that, I'd be running all over doing everything and probably be out of business pretty quickly, with a bunch of great ideas though and a bunch of great execution.

Jon Taffer: [00:42:53] I'm just saying I won't put yes people around. We're back to that whole ego.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:58] We’re back to ego, yeah. Yeah, being an entrepreneur is almost like or business owner is like an exercising hiring people to make sure that you don't ruin your own life and then also steering the ship somewhere in between.

Jon Taffer: [00:43:11] So everybody works against me in that regard though.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:13] I bet.

Jon Taffer: [00:43:13] Because what happens is the celebrity and that bigger than life television image makes people intimidated to disagree with me. So I can sit in a room with people where I want open discussion and they're all scared to say, “I think you're nuts Taffer. I disagree with you. I think that's a.” So that's something I'm combating all the time because I want that free flowing communications. But the imagery of television makes you bigger than life and people are scared to do. They maybe think, I'll throw something at them.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:41] Sure, yeah. Corey doesn't want to tell you how to change the lighting. He's going to get fired. He’s going to get a plate thrown at him. He doesn’t want enchiladas in his face. Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:43:48] Corey, you know that's not true, right?

Corey: [ 00:43:50] Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:43:51] Okay, just making sure.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:52] That was a long right there. That was a long one. Jon --

Jon Taffer: [00:43:56] people that work for me actually surprised by the fact,

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:58] Are they?

Jon Taffer: [00:43:58] Yeah, because I want everybody to be successful.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:00] Yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:01] Come here, Corey. Come here.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:03] Get him in front of the camera. This is my fault. I take responsibility for this.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:06] Am I different than you thought I'd be?

Corey: [00:44:08] Oh yeah.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:08] In what way?

Corey: [00:44:09] The best way explain it to me, was there's a Taffer, there's a job and Taffer’s now is celebrity TV personality than Jon is the cool heart loving guy that.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:19] have I thrown anything at you yet?

Corey: [00:44:20] Not yet.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:21] Not yet. How long you've been?

Corey: [00:44:23] [indiscernible] [00:44:23] year.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:24] It's his first week.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:26] No, you know it's all about team building and surrounding yourself with great people. He's a great guy. He has a personality, the attitude. He's really committed and he wants to be better every day. When we surrounded ourselves with people like Jordan, we can go wrong buddy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:39] And that starts from the top from what I've learned from you in the last few days.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:43] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:43] Jon, thank you so much.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:45] Pleasure. It’s a lot of fun. Let’s do it again some time.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:47] Yeah, you got it.

Jon Taffer: [00:44:47] Okay. Take care buddy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:48] All right, thank you.

[00:44:51] Great big thank you to Jon Taffer. He's got his own podcast called No Excuses, and if you want to know how I managed to book great guests like Jon Taffer and manage my relationships with hundreds slash thousands of people. I use systems and I use tiny habits, and I'm giving you those for free. So check out Six-Minute Networking over at jordanharbinger.com/course, and don't procrastinate. I know you're thinking you'll do it later. You can't make up for lost time when it comes to digging the well before you get thirsty. You've got to build those relationships before you need them. Once you need them, you're too late. So go to jordanharbinger.com/course, and I've been making that available to people and it's what I wish I knew 10, 15 years ago. So go and check it out, jordanharbinger.com/course.

[00:45:31] And speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Jon Taffer. I'm @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. This show is produced in association with PodcastOne, and this episode was co-produced by Jason “Bar Back” DeFillippo and Jen Harbinger. Show notes by Robert Fogarty. Worksheets by Caleb Bacon. And I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful, which is hopefully in every episode. So please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. Got a lot more in the pipeline. Very excited for some of these upcoming interviews and advice. And in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.