1025: Left Aghast by the Pedo In Your Past | Feedback Friday

1025: Left Aghast by the Pedo In Your Past | Feedback Friday1025: Left Aghast by the Pedo In Your Past | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback. Friday producer, the hemp based yogi sandals to my suburban dad, Hokas Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of incredible people, from journalists and poker champions to national security advisors, CEOs, neuroscientists, and astronauts. On Fridays though, we take listener letters, offer advice, play ridiculous soundbites, and try as best we can.

To sift through the detritus of our listener life conundrum and see what new sandcastles we can build thereof. Speaking of which, before we dive into the letters, Gabe, you have an update to share with us? Yeah,

[00:00:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: I do. So you guys remember the listener from a few weeks back who started an OnlyFans and then her friend's husbands started secretly buying her videos, but she didn't realize it was him.

And then I guess he let slip some things and she connected the dots and was like, oh my God, I'm in this weird OnlyFans relationship with my really good friend's husband.

[00:01:11] Jordan Harbinger: Right? And she was trying to figure out, do I tell my friend what her husband is doing? Did I do something wrong? How do I tell her, how does this not blow up in my face and ruin the friendship?

[00:01:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. So she wrote us after the episode aired and she said, so I invited my friend over to hang, we chatted, and then I shared some videos of us being silly from before I moved away and before she was married. I wanted her to remember our history, our friendship, and feel the care that I have for her. Nice.

Then I nervously shared about a man who found my OnlyFans account immediately after I opened it, and then after four months started word vomiting like he needed to confess something, and suddenly it all clicked. I told her I was 90 to 95% sure was her husband, and that I deleted my account. I told her I tried to stay out of it, but I wanted to save her time and compound interest in heartache and that I supported her decision with whatever she does moving forward.

She asked some clarifying questions, but already believed me and wasn't surprised at all. He's always had a porn addiction and hasn't shown interest in her for some time. She said, well, my marriage is over. She was shockingly understanding and even gave me a hug because she could tell I was so shaken and worried about it, ending our friendship.

She assured me I did nothing wrong. But if I waited 10 years, then she would've been mad at me.

[00:02:27] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Yeah. So this went just about as well as it could have. I'm gonna be honest, Gabe. Mm-Hmm. I was not sure how her friend was gonna take the news. I, I mean, she, she wasn't sure either, right? Me

[00:02:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: either. I love the way she handled this and I love her friend for responding.

[00:02:38] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You know, I kind of feel bad for this guy because he ruined his marriage, but 'cause people are like warming up their emails right now, I will say, I do not understand how you can just not stop yourself from looking at your wife's friend naked. And that's what this is, right? Mm-Hmm. Porn addiction, yada.

Well, okay. When you strip all the porn addiction, pardon the pun, and only fan stuff out of it, what you're doing is paying your wife's friends for nude pictures and videos. Which to me takes this into the realm of cheating. This is not like, well, I'm not gonna give an example. It's a, there's a beyond the pale, whatever pale there may be.

But obviously he's got some serious issues that he needs to work out.

[00:03:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, my friend started brainstorming places she can stay and how she was gonna move forward. She confronted him that same night, he confessed to everything and regretted, ruining, quote, the best thing he's ever had, unquote.

It's so interesting, Jordan. Something just occurred to me that we might have missed when we first took this letter. Which is that, did he on some level want his marriage to fall apart, and was he confessing to our friend here, knowing she might go back and tell the friend what he did? Hmm. Makes me wonder,

[00:03:41] Jordan Harbinger: look, I gotta say, for such a dysfunctional situation, they're all being extremely honest and evolved outta this whole thing.

Like, he didn't go, now it's not me. She's lying. It's this a, you know? He just was like, yeah, I got a problem.

[00:03:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. My sweet friend then called me and told me that even he said, I did the right thing by sharing my suspicions. So this brought so much comfort to me. My friend showed so much maturity, understanding, and restraint during the situation.

She's getting her ducks in a row to potentially move back to her previous state and to pursue a very meaningful career. I feel such a weight off my shoulders. I think Gabe was right. Knowing and staying silent means I was keeping his secret.

[00:04:16] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. You didn't ask for it, but you had to say something.

[00:04:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: I didn't realize I was carrying that weight, but I felt relief from that day forward. Thank you for your help with all of this. Signed the former OnlyFans Pro who's still a glow after ending the woe around this unfortunate shit show.

[00:04:32] Jordan Harbinger: Well, look, this is great. I, I thought there was a decent chance her whole friendship was gonna go sideways.

You never know when people are gonna explode, what direction the shrapnels gonna go in, but I'm so happy to hear that this worked out. Gabe, I really feel like this is another great case study in the power of honesty. Mm-hmm. And being forthright. The only way she could go wrong was by hiding information hemming and hawing, waiting till it gets worse, and then deciding, oh my gosh, I've waited till.

It was a horrible conversation she had to have, but she made it as easy as possible by getting out in front of it and saying, look, I don't like this at all, but here's the deal. And I really commend her for that and her friend for meeting her in that honesty. And even in a weird way, I guess, the husband, who again, clearly has some work to do.

It's inspiring and I just think, you know, nicely done. This has strengthened your friendship as a result and not damaged it, which is the best possible result that you could ever get from something like this. But that's not all the fresh horror we have this week. Gabe, what is the first thing outta the mailbag?

[00:05:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm in my late thirties and when I was in my early twenties, I decided to work at a local liquor store. It was all dudes, and the boss was a very quiet, no nonsense type who was twice my age. He constantly tried looking like a tough guy and was not friendly to customers at all. Over time, he started to become very creepy towards me.

I could sense him staring at me as I rang customers up, and other times I caught him staring at me from the dark loft upstairs.

[00:05:58] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God. Hold on. I got a sound bite for this as usual. That is so creepy. I am just imagining this dark loft and all you can see are his eyes kind of like a horror movie? Well, like a cartoon, really.

Mm-Hmm. And as they blink and he slowly gives you this super creepy smile. I mean, that is just, ugh. Can you imagine working a place like that?

[00:06:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was usually just he and I during the day shift, and he eventually started making small talk. I've always been curious and interested in topics beyond my years, and he kept saying how different I was from other girls my age.

[00:06:34] Jordan Harbinger: Ah. So it begins, I, by the way, that phrase like, you're just not like the other girls your age. Nothing good comes from that until you're 70. Then it's, wow, you're so different from the other girls your age and you're like, yeah, I'm a young and young and bubbly energy, young spirit, anything before age 60, 70.

Creeper v go straight to jail.

[00:06:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Imagine getting that compliment when you're in the nursing home. You're like, you're not, you're so much wiser than the other girls your age. Like what

[00:07:01] Jordan Harbinger: would be different? It wouldn't be wiser. It would be you're, you're looking for different in the other direction. Age wise. I

[00:07:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: mean, I'm 70 in my body, but I'm 100 in my heart.

One day his wife and young kids came in, a son and a daughter. I got the sense that the wife was not fond of me and it made me feel very awkward. I will admit I'm a fairly attractive girl by society standards and I could understand the discomfort, and I actually felt bad for the tension. Mm, but not bad enough.

Apparently I was at a fairly low point in my life dealing with various insecurities and was also somewhat flattered that this older guy liked me. I hate to admit this. It's really hard for me to say, but I need to get it out. We hooked up one night. After that night, he became obsessed with me. Long story short, I eventually had to quit and tell him that if he contacted me one more time, I would take out a restraining order.

Dang, a couple weeks later, he texted me that his 13-year-old daughter tried to commit suicide. I didn't answer thinking it was just a ploy to get me to respond. He finally gave up. After that, fast forward 12 years, I'd settled into my career and I was at my computer one day posting to my company's Facebook page.

I toggled over to my personal account and saw that there was a new video post from one of our local residents who pretends to be underage girls to catch local pedophiles there on the screen. Clear as day was my old boss's face. I went completely numb. I couldn't move a muscle. The transcripts of what he said to a supposed 14-year-old girl were beyond disturbing.

[00:08:33] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God. Of course. My first thought is, was he doing something to his daughter? Is that why she tried to commit suicide?

[00:08:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. My mind went there too, I guess. I don't know if we can know for sure, but it's certainly curious. So she goes on. I had to pretend to be sick. It wasn't hard, and left work early to be alone.

I'm not sure if any charges were ever filed, but the whole thing brought back a memory from the liquor store. One day the TV was on playing a news segment featuring a pedophile who was arrested, and my boss said, I was watching something the other night that said that most older men are attracted to girls around 12 years old.

That's disgusting. Mm-hmm. It was an extremely odd thing to say. And looking back, I think he was gauging my response as he was clearly in agreement. It also made me wonder if his daughter really did try to take her own life, and if so, why? We can only speculate.

[00:09:21] Jordan Harbinger: Well, there you go. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, but who knows?

And also I wanna say, just in case anybody out there is wondering if most older men are attracted to girls around 12 years old, that is almost certainly not true. Not because I can speak for myself, there's nothing there. And I, you'd think that guys like us with tons of guy friends who talk about guy stuff.

Somebody would've let the mask slip a little bit like once over my entire life. The only guys that have ever indicated anything like that are really gross pedo dudes that you don't hang out with ever again. Mm-Hmm. That was just him trying to feel you out and his super disgusting,

[00:09:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know, what is he doing?

Externalizing his shame by putting it out there and kind of like making it not a thing. He had to hold on his own. Very curious. Letting

[00:10:07] Jordan Harbinger: his freak flag fly a little bit and then like looking at her to see if she's like, oh, that's normal. And he is like, oh yeah, she gets me

[00:10:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: testing. He's testing the waters.

Okay. Right.

[00:10:15] Jordan Harbinger: He's, that's what I think.

[00:10:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Another memory, I also worked for a local behavioral health center back then, and one day while walking through a unit, I saw that his son then over 18, was one of our patients. I wasn't privy to why, due to privacy laws, but it makes me wonder what did he possibly do to those kids when they were younger?

I tell myself that I was young, insecure, impressionable, but I always thought of myself as headstrong, intelligent, and quite frankly, better than that. I have such a great life now. I have a career. I own a home, and I'm about to get married to the greatest guy I know we all make mistakes, but this makes me sick to think about.

How can I cope with the guilt and shame of knowing that I slept with a pedophile? Any advice on letting go of terrible decisions I've made in the past and how to cope with knowing I've had relations with a monster signed, hoping to take the sting out of this unsettling fling.

[00:11:08] Jordan Harbinger: Well, wow. Uh, this is quite a story.

I know all this is really difficult to talk about, so I want to thank you for sharing this part of your life with us. I can hear that part of writing was just unburdening yourself, and I really do commend you for having the courage to be vulnerable here. Mm-Hmm. For going on record owning what happened.

I think that's a very powerful step in working through this kind of stuff. First of all, I am so sorry that this guy targeted you in this way. I'm so sorry that the experience has stuck with you. Look, what this guy did was obviously inappropriate on so many levels. It was inappropriate as your boss, it was inappropriate.

As a married person, it was inappropriate Given your age gap, I, I mean, I'll, you know, a little more leniency there. That's the least of our concerns that that's mostly a problem given the larger context here. But of course, it was most disturbing given this guy's apparent predilection for young girls. And I am so very sorry that he met you at a vulnerable age, this difficult time in your life.

I completely understand why this memory is a painful one and why it's left you with some very complicated, very difficult feelings, guilt and shame specifically, which are very normal responses to what happened, and also very interesting ones given what went down here. So look, I wanna say something that's probably obvious, but I think it's important that you hear it and take it in.

What this guy did was obviously not okay. He was creepy, inappropriate, obsessive, manipulative, reckless, and he clearly wrestles with some very disturbing demons and who knows why that is. Whether his wiring is fundamentally flawed or he has his own unresolved trauma, I bet he does. That's often the case, but it doesn't matter.

He was the adult in this situation. He was your superior and he crossed a number of boundaries, and that's on him. Now, you were in your early twenties. Yes, you're legally an adult. Yes, you're mature for your age or whatever, but I'm sure you'd agree a person in their early twenties, still very much a kid.

You didn't have a bunch of life experience behind you that such that you could clock somebody like this. You didn't have the confidence to tell a creepy boss to go fly a kite. Your brain was still literally developing. And to your point, in addition to your young age, you were also at a low point at the time.

You were vulnerable to a person like this. And to be fair, there was something flattering about an older guy taking an interest in you. I get that. I think a lot of people, men and women, would feel that way, and I, it wouldn't surprise me if he deliberately sniffed that out and took advantage of it. Point is what happened at the liquor store.

Yeah, you played a role in it. Of course you did with the limited tools in life experience that you had, but this is not something that was entirely your fault by any stretch. It was this guy's responsibility to honor the very clear boundaries of an employer employee relationship and to work through whatever feelings and impulses he had that drew him to younger women.

And he did not do that. That's on him. So my first thought for you is try to make some room for that alongside your guilt. Guilt speaks to a sense of responsibility, sometimes a hyperactive sense of responsibility. And in a way, I appreciate that you feel that. I think that speaks to your maturity, your thoughtfulness, your sense of right and wrong.

And I am not gonna tell you, you know, don't even bother looking at your own stuff. This is all on him. End of story. Clearly there's more to what happened, but we do have to get clear on who was primarily responsible for what here and how much you could really even be responsible for something like this at a time like that in your life.

I hope that eases the guilt a little bit, or at least allows you to be in touch with some other feelings that deserve to be in the mix here too.

[00:14:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-Hmm. Like anger, for example.

[00:14:27] Jordan Harbinger: Like anger. Exactly. Anger at this literal pedophile who targeted her and left her with these difficult feelings. I think we can all agree that that emotion deserves a seat at the table too.

[00:14:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Absolutely. It's very interesting. She shared so much in her letter, her guilt, her shame, her disgust, her regret. But you're right, not a ton of anger in this letter. What we are hearing is a lot of guilt and remorse and self-recrimination. And if you think about it, a lot of those feelings sound a lot like anger, but it's anger turned inward.

I think she's deeply disturbed by this guy, and I also think she's probably on some level furious at him as she should be. There might be something about being in touch with that anger that's difficult for her. I'm not exactly sure why. That's something I would love for her to explore, but I think I can imagine, look, it's unpleasant to walk around with a persistent rage and disgust at somebody you were involved with.

Maybe being in touch with that anger confirms that what happened to her back then really was upsetting. Who knows? Maybe her family didn't make a lot of room for this particular emotion growing up, so it's harder for her to feel it. Maybe her anger feels, I don't know, uncontrollable, kind of dangerous, more unstable than say her guilt or her shame or her more intellectual sense of, this is right, this is wrong.

This was my responsibility when anger can't be felt, and I, I have to say I understand this firsthand because I have struggled with this a lot in my own life. When you can't feel anger, it has to go somewhere. And what often ends up happening is we turn it against ourselves. We often do this unconsciously, automatically.

It's so fast, it can be hard to even notice. And then a very healthy justifiable anger transforms into something else. Guilt, self-loathing, self blame, and also interestingly, depression a lot of the time. And that's what feeds these beliefs like, well, I must have done something wrong, or I'm better than this.

Why did I do this? Or, I know we all make mistakes, but this makes me sick to think about for a lot of people, it's easier to feel anger that way.

[00:16:26] Jordan Harbinger: Well, when the anger is not actually even anger,

[00:16:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: right? When it's something more refined, right? Quote unquote refined or evolved or manageable, safer, something closer to home, because then we don't have to feel how awful it is to be angry at somebody.

Then also we don't have to take it to the person who caused it in the first place and make them deal with it. We kind of try to work it out within ourselves. That can be very comforting and gratifying in a certain way, especially for somebody who considers herself very mature and beyond her years.

[00:16:56] Jordan Harbinger: Right, right. But that ultimately doesn't work.

[00:16:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not really. Not ultimately, no.

[00:17:00] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So that makes a lot of sense to me. So this is probably why she feels stuck, not because this experience is unresolvable, but because the way she's going about resolving it, it's not quite working. She's asking, how do I cope with the guilt and the shame of knowing I slept with a pedophile?

How do I let go of the terrible decisions I've made? And you and I are both going. Well, let's start by inviting a more primary feeling into the mix. This anger and see if that helps ratchet down the guilt a little bit.

[00:17:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, exactly. Because being angry is not just about walking around being mad. It's also about recognizing the object of that anger.

This guy who, because of who he is and the circumstance in which they met, put her in a weird, awful position,

[00:17:40] Jordan Harbinger: at which point she'll be in a much better position to process some of these feelings and hopefully release them. There's one more thing I wanna touch on here, which is, to your point, Gabe, we're hearing from a very mature, very capable person, and I think that might be making this memory even more difficult for her.

Look, she has some concepts about herself. They're admirable concepts. How, how did she put it? I always thought of myself as headstrong, intelligent. I always thought I was, quite frankly, better than that. And I believe her. I'm sure she is. All those things. But how do I put this? Okay, there, there are two conflicting parts of herself.

The intelligent, headstrong adult who's in control and knows what's best and the, and then there's this vulnerable, insecure child who got entangled with a dodgy guy, and she's struggling to reconcile those two versions of herself. There's a Google Docs metaphor in here somewhere. Part of that is probably the self recrimination we were just talking about, but I also wonder if these concepts are actually serving her in this area.

[00:18:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I think what you're really getting at is that she has some work to do to integrate these two halves of her story, these two stages of her life, and to have more compassion for the younger version of herself who just didn't have the tools and awareness to make a different choice. When she says, frankly, I'm better than that.

I mean, look, that might be true, but it's probably truer now in her early thirties, she's holding a much less developed version of herself to the same standard. She's essentially kind of condemning herself across time. I don't blame her for what happened with this guy, but I also appreciate that she's owning that She found his attention, flattering, that she did make a few choices to carry on with him without knowing the full story about him, of course, and that is a crucial fact when she was, at least on paper, an adult.

[00:19:17] Jordan Harbinger: I'm really glad you said that, because she's not just holding her younger self to her adult standard. She's also holding her younger self responsible for not knowing information about this guy that came out over a decade later, 12 years later. Mm-Hmm. Gabriel, it would be completely unreasonable to do that to somebody else.

So why are you doing that to yourself?

[00:19:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Such an important question. You know, when she says stuff like, I'm better than that, I do wonder if she's kind of splitting off a part of herself that she finds shameful. Mm-hmm. In the same way that she might be disowning the part of herself that's angry. So here again, the answer she's looking for is probably more curiosity.

Self-compassion integration than guilt shame.

[00:19:59] Jordan Harbinger: Totally agree. So I don't think you need to let go of the terrible decisions you've made in the past. I think you need to accept all of these pieces, this monster, what he did, this younger version of yourself, what she did, all of these feelings you're left with, and how you relate to them, and sort of weave this chapter.

Into your story. I know how gross and painful it's gotta be. I'm sorry for that. But look how far you've come, how much you've been able to accomplish, how rich and full your life is. You've grown tremendously since then. You have thrived possibly in part because you went through this difficult experience.

Now that doesn't deserve your guilt, your shame, or your condemnation. I think it deserves your empathy, your pride, and most of all, your acceptance. You went through a very unsettling thing. That's a fact. But what meaning you make of it, how you navigate these feelings now as an adult. I think that's what ultimately matters.

There are parts of your letter we didn't even get to, what this guy might have done to other children, what he might have done to his own children, which is heartbreaking. But I really just wanna focus on you and say, invite it all in. Talk about it with your partner, with your close friends, with a therapist.

Be in touch with as much of this as possible. And if you do that, I think you'll be amazed by how different this experience is gonna feel over time. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know what I'm creepily staring at from the loft, Gabriel, the amazing deals on the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back.

This episode is sponsored in part by Dell and a MD Dell Technologies has just dropped the cybersecurity tapes, which is a new podcast series that dives into today's biggest cybersecurity challenges. And I know that sounds a little bit technical, but this is a really good format to teach cybersecurity because it's story-based.

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So catch the next episode of the cybersecurity tapes on platforms like Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And if you got a cybersecurity horror story of your own, you can drop a review and your story might inspire their next episode. This episode is also sponsored by HIA Health. Hey, parents. You ever wonder what's in those children's vitamins at the store?

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[00:23:46] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm back from the loft. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here.

Well, not in the loft. Those lights are always out. All those deals are searchable and clickable. On the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals, please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to feedback Friday. Okay, next up.

[00:24:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 25-year-old female, and I've been pre-med since junior year of undergrad.

After graduation, I decided to work in a medical lab to buff up my resume while studying for the mcat. mcat. By the way, that's the standardized test for medical school. I've been working here for three and a half years now. I took the test two years ago and didn't get a score. I was happy with, I tried again earlier this year after signing up for a test prep course.

I was so sure of myself and I thought I would definitely score at least six points higher based on my practice tests. Last week I got my score back and it was three points lower than my original score, which takes me outta the running for MD schools.

[00:24:42] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh, sorry. That is a blow.

[00:24:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm devastated because it was the last thing I expected.

I paid a lot for the course, which guaranteed a good score if I followed their schedule, which I did two low scores with the second one being lower than the first is considered a red flag on my application. And while my GPA is good, it isn't the median GPA of what most applicants apply with. I have a strong research background, have presented at conferences, have one publication, and have several clinical volunteer and shadowing hours as well.

Amazing.

[00:25:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's pretty impressive and I hope you can stay connected to those accomplishments too.

[00:25:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: I spoke to a tutor from the prep company and they told me I should wait to apply and take the test again after some time, but. I feel restless and anxious and I'm tired of waiting. One idea I have is to take the test again closer to the end of the year and submit a very late application so that I'd be able to say I gave it my best shot.

My thought is if I already have the cards stacked against me, I have nothing to lose by trying. I would have to stop working temporarily or get something with a more flexible schedule, freeing me up to do a lot more practice. If I'm making progress a month before the final test date, I'd sign up and give it another shot.

If I don't get accepted anywhere, I'm not sure I have it in me to go through this whole process again. It's been tough and I wanna feel like I'm accomplishing what I need to in life. Is this a crazy plan? Am I kidding myself here? How would I go about a change in career if this is what it comes to?

Should I pursue a master's in public health? How do I figure out my place in society if it isn't medicine? Signed looking for some polite notes on my road to the white coat.

[00:26:16] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, yeah. Well, first of all, I can hear how demoralized you are right now. This is all very stressful and frustrating. Not just the MCAT stuff, but about feeling lost in your career and in the world.

Those are really tough feelings. I get why they're coming up and I know how intense it can be to consider letting go of a dream you've had for a long time. I recommend wholeheartedly that you do what I do and never have any dreams in the first place. No, you probably give up on them or so early in life that you don't even remember them anymore.

You probably know this, but Gabe and I are not medical school experts by any means. We're not even grad school experts. I went to one, but that was about it. So we really can't tell you whether your application strategy is the right one. That's something you'll need to figure out with your test prep company and maybe an admissions coach, talking to peers, mentors, doctors, experts in your community.

What I can tell you is this having a dream or just an ambitious goal. It is very intense. We put a lot of ourselves into these goals. We have a lot on the line, right? We've got our fulfillment on the line, our pride, our purpose, the general shape of our lives, and it can be really painful to hit roadblocks along the way, especially kind of like real ones.

The main roadblock you're facing is the mcat. As somebody who never wants to see a Scantron sheet again in my entire life, I really empathize with you. Those tests, they are brutal. And in your case, there's a lot of pressure riding on this because you need to make up for the GPA thing. So I am so sorry that you didn't get the score you were hoping for.

That stinks, but that's just what's happening. And now you gotta make a choice. So I can't tell you with a hundred percent certainty if submitting a late application is the right move. Honestly, it sounds a little risky. My gut is telling me, take a beat and be very thoughtful about your next move here. I don't want you to blow your chance to submit the best possible application with the best possible scores at the best possible time, even if that takes you another year.

I know you're impatient, I get it. I know you're frustrated, but in the grand scheme of things, a year is just not that much. If you use the next six, nine months to get a more flexible job, treat this test like it is your job. Get your score where it needs to be. Maybe bolster a few other parts of your application.

I think that would be time well spent. I would hate for you to look back and go, damn, I wish I didn't rush this. I wish I'd been a little more patient, a little more resilient and just done it right. So my gut is telling me, lick your wounds. Sit with these feelings for a minute. Hit pause on the bigger questions you're asking about your plan B, and give this one more shot, not just one more shot, but the shot that your dream actually deserves.

And if you still don't get into the schools you want, eh, then it'll be time to start considering other options.

[00:28:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree, Jordan, I would not give up on this goal until you are really, really sure that it's time, because you have good reasons to not just because it's really painful right now, and you just, you just want this agony to be over.

[00:28:59] Jordan Harbinger: Although I totally get why she wants to do that. I mean, I've been there many times. Yeah. Sometimes you're just tired of being beaten down and embarrassed and frustrated, and you're like, fine, maybe this isn't my path. I, I remember that with grad school, like not getting in and being like, oh, well screw it.

And then it's like, should I do this extra thing? I mean, and that's what got me in.

[00:29:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: I also understand her feeling of, you know, she's not making progress on her dreams. It's been three and a half years. She wants to feel capable. She wants to feel effective. Med school aside. That's a very real desire and I love that.

She wants to feel that. So none of that is wrong. None of that is weird. It's just what do you do with those feelings? But that's why it's really important to sit with them and decide what to do with them. They might be telling you that medical school is not your path, but they might also be telling you, Hey, you still have some work to do, which is annoying and intense, but.

Really important. And if that is in fact what they're telling you, then your job is to feel all of these feelings and keep focusing on the next step. You gotta show up to your MCAT study book for an hour every day with your anger, with your disillusionment, your anxiety, and just do one more problem set, get a little bit better, or reach out to one more mentor or put in a few more hours at a lab or whatever it is.

Not to succumb to these feelings, but to allow them to ride along with you while you keep acting. It's really interesting, Jordan, I wonder whether her idea to submit a very late application this year is actually a clever way to let herself off the hook.

[00:30:23] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm, interesting. You mean because her odds are so low.

[00:30:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I just thought it was interesting that she said maybe I'll take the test again closer to the end of the year and submit a very late application. If I already have the cards stacked against me, I have nothing to lose by trying. Mm-Hmm. The feeling I get from that part of her letter is, well, it's totally hopeless anyway, so I might as well just throw my application in there knowing I probably won't get in, and then I can say, well see, I didn't get in.

I did my best. So the decision is made, it's time to call it, and now thank God I'm off the hook.

[00:30:51] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Maybe there's some other weird timeline thing here that we don't understand about the MCAT and applications, but maybe I don't understand why you can't just wait a year, take the test again, and then apply on time.

She does have something to lose. That's the thing, her spot in an MD school that she really wants, and if the cards are stacked against her, she could put in the work to change those cards for the next year. Unless there's something that I'm just not getting,

[00:31:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: she might be trying to produce a result that she unconsciously wants, which is to be rejected so that she doesn't have to keep trying when what she consciously wants and what I think her truest self is still hoping for is to get into medical school and become a doctor.

[00:31:24] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah, that's fascinating. And it's really good for her to see if that's what's really going on here. And then if you don't get in, then I would think about changing careers or pursuing a master's in public health and figuring out your place in society, and you already know how we'd advise you to go about that, which comes down to hard work and strong relationships.

But I don't think that's what you're really writing in about. I think what you're writing in about is how to work with obstacles on the path to pursuing your dreams, whatever they turn out to be. Sit with these feelings. Be very disciplined about what anxieties you pay attention to right now and strongly consider giving it one last really good shot.

Whatever happens, I'm confident that'll give you the data you need to make the right call. You don't wanna live with regret. And look, there's nothing wrong with pivoting in life. If a goal isn't working out, who knows? Maybe your plan B will be the more fulfilling path. That's kind of what happened to me.

But there is a difference between pivoting and giving up prematurely so that you can protect this wound. Listen to your gut face things. Honestly, work as hard as you can, and that'll usually take you to the right places. We're rooting for you. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise, use descriptive subject lines.

That makes our job a lot easier. If your friend's husband secretly subscribed to your OnlyFans, you're caught between, well, how secret could it be? You're caught between an unstable mother and an enabling father, or you're still processing the fallout from your polyamorous marriage and your multi-year affair with a needy podcaster.

Who, and I cannot stress this enough, is not me or Gabriel, whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter wee bit wiser. It's basically a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you Deliver to your inbox once a week.

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[00:33:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, my mother-in-Law has a cat that is prone to aggression and psychotic episodes. Both she and her son, who lives with her, have needed multiple stitches as well as treatments of aggressive antibiotics due to attacks by this cat.

[00:33:32] Jordan Harbinger: Hold up, Gabe. I didn't realize that cats could be psychotic. I didn't even I, I never think about the mental health of pets.

[00:33:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Well, apparently there's this thing called feline hyperesthesia syndrome, which can mimic the symptoms of schizophrenia, which is terrifying. So she goes on. Two years ago, the cat attacked her with such ferocity that she required stitches and a surgeon had to do his best to piece back together a tattoo that she has on the serrated area.

After that, they decided to get rid of the cat until they could deal with the cat in a healthy way. Through the SPCA, they decided to contain it in their bathroom. Ugh. The other night, the cat came up in conversation and I realized that the cat is still locked in their bathroom. Two years later,

[00:34:15] Jordan Harbinger: oh my God, that's awful.

[00:34:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Apparently they looked into getting it put down at the SPCA, but if they were to do that, they'd be unable to get a cat again for a year. At least that's what they said. Whether they actually did their diligence and looked into the matter is questionable. They do have another cat, but it's normal and free to roam the house.

Confining an animal to such small quarters is clearly animal cruelty, and I've considered two options. Option one is I tell them, deal with this cat, or I'm gonna call animal services as this is no way for an animal to live. This option would cause great strife between our family and the two of them.

Option two is to simply call animal services and not give them any warning as they've had two years now to do the right thing. This is less likely to cause problems between us, but I'm unsure how many others know that they've kept this cat in their bathroom. They may narrow it down and figure out that I reported them.

Do you have any advice here? Is there a secret third option signed? Combating the lies around this imprisoned feline?

[00:35:13] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, this poor cat, psychotic and confined in a small space on top of it. This is not okay. I mean, it sounds like prison. I understand that this cat has seriously hurt them. It's probably a huge burden, but look, that's a fair reason to take it to the SPCA or try to re-home it.

I don't know if I'd keep a psychotic cat either. But then they need to go do that. They can't just throw it in the guest bathroom for two freaking years and pretend it doesn't really exist. It's really, that's truly awful. So my feeling is option one is exactly the right way to go. That seems more than fair to me at this point.

Do right by this cat. And if you won't, I gotta call animal services because this animal's suffering and needs treatment or a home where it can be properly taken care of. I don't think that's gonna go over super well. But you gotta, these people have to do something.

[00:35:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm actually a little surprised that that would cause a ton of strife between your family and theirs, because that is not a crazy position to take.

You're giving them a chance to do the right thing. You can even offer to help them if that's what they need. You're not jumping straight to dropping a dime on them and getting them in trouble.

[00:36:13] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. And if they get pissed about that tough kishka and animal welfare is at stake, they're torturing this cat.

I mean it's, it's horrible.

[00:36:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Although if they're the type of people to get mad at a reasonable ultimatum like that, then that might also explain why, why they stuck a cat in the bathroom for two years. These people are really something.

[00:36:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly. But you know, I think option two is fair game as well.

Obviously. I don't know if they'll narrow it down to you. I don't know how many people know about their Josh Kat in the bathroom. But if they're gonna get upset with you, either way does it matter? I say give 'em one last shot to do the right thing. I might even tell 'em, you know, do it this week, or I'll have to notify somebody.

And if you want, I'll help you take it to the SPCA or a vet or an animal shelter or whatever. And if they don't, I mean, you make the call and a story.

[00:36:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed. I also don't buy this whole thing about how they went to the SPCA to have the CAT put down and the s sp, what did she say? The SPCA was like, yeah, we can do that, but then you can't get a cat again for a year.

First of all, I don't think they keep records. No, I, I highly doubt that. And if they do, I imagine, I mean, that would only be within the SPCA network, right? I could be wrong, but that's what I gather. No one's gonna stop them from adopting a cat from another shelter or a foster situation or another state.

[00:37:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Well, look, the first thing that jumped out at me and, and tell me what I'm missing here. Why not? If the problem is, oh, they won't let us get another cat. Get a cat now, then a week later, deal with the psychotic cat and put the poor thing down. SBP is not gonna come kick down your door and take your new cat back either.

These people are incredibly stupid. Or the whole, oh, they won't let us get a cat again. Thing is a flimsy excuse for not actually doing the right thing. I also have to think there are treatments for this kind of thing. If they're really like, I can't put my cat down. We love him. Okay, well there's gotta be some options.

[00:37:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: So there definitely are. I looked into this. There are medications out there, there are supplements you can do behavior modification. You can give your cat more exercise. Apparently you can change your home a little bit to make the cat calm down. There are options here,

[00:38:09] Jordan Harbinger: right? So they didn't even take the cat to the vet to see if they could give it cat Paxil or whatever.

They just tossed it in the bathroom and then made up some BS story about how the SPCA scared him into not euthanizing it.

[00:38:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Come on

[00:38:19] Clip: man.

[00:38:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean the vet should have been the first step. Also, Jordan, they don't give them cat Paxil, you know that right? Mm. They give them Paxil. Ugh. You got it, Paxil.

[00:38:29] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah, I get it.

That is terrible. I'm also kind of angry. I didn't think of that. I know you were. So put the cat on Paxil or uh, or Lur.

[00:38:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Goddammit. Now I'm annoyed. I wish I had thought of that one. Yeah, that seems It's so bad, but that one's right up your alley. Amazing.

[00:38:41] Jordan Harbinger: So yeah, talk to your friends. Give them a chance to do the right thing.

And if they don't make the call, let the chips fall where they may. If you're, look, if you're a pet owner, you have a responsibility to treat your animals well. Even the psychotic ones are the ones with depression or whatever animals can get, and if that means rehoming them or ultimately putting them down after you've exhausted all the other options, of course, if that's what it comes to, fine.

But you can't just pretend it's not a problem because it's easier on you. Thank you for caring about this cat. I really hope it finds the help it needs soon and hopefully a much better home. I. You know what's locked in my bathroom. Gabriel, amazing deals on the fine products and services that support this show.

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All right, what's next?

[00:42:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've spent almost 20 years in special operations in the military between active duty and the National Guard. Transitioning out was hard, and I've had my fair share of struggles including substance abuse, but my best friend from active duty has been having a much worse go of it.

He had a rough upbringing and experienced a lot of horrific things in his childhood and in the military, starting at just 17 years old. Still, he's always had a victim mentality. He's also always been a high functioning alcoholic. He quit a contracting job making six figures over what I can only assume is his pride.

He then got into a high paying trade apprenticeship only to quit that within the first two years, his alcoholism has since spiraled out of control.

[00:42:58] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. Poor dude. That is so sad.

[00:43:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: About a year ago, he admitted how bad of a situation he was in and I recommended a nonprofit. A former coworker of mine had had a great success with.

He reached out, but never went. Because of the accountability the place holds patients to, it forces you to learn a skill or trade while there and to do mental health counseling to address the underlying issues. There are a ton of resources out there for special operations veterans, and I found multiple solutions for him, but he refuses to go to any of them.

He's willing to do a medical detox, which is the only way you can stop drinking at this point. But laughs at the thought of group or individual therapy because of one of his experiences with it in the past. I understand why soldiers are reluctant to do counseling as it's hard for veterans with truly traumatic experiences to talk to somebody who can't relate to them at all.

I've also done some counseling myself and didn't find it very useful, but I've also never been anywhere close to rock bottom as he is. Recently I found out he was unemployed and living in his car when I again tried to urge him to attend a program, he laughed at me. I. The last time I talked to him, it took everything not to scream at him through the phone, over his refusal to seek help.

My fear is that he's a candidate for suicide and I don't wanna push him over the edge by cutting him off. I'm at a point where I don't know what else to do. Do I just leave him to go down this road on his own until he hits a lower bottom, signed hitting a wall when my friend won't answer the call, pick up the ball or work with me at all?

[00:44:31] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, what a tragic story. There's a lot of pain in this letter. A lot. Yeah. The things this guy's been through, we can only imagine the difficulty he has in seeking out help. Even just accepting the help, the generous help of somebody who really cares about him. There are thousands and thousands of veterans who are suffering like this, and it really does break my heart.

I actually had a really good friend who was a Special Forces Veteran Marine, and I'd known him for years. And then one day I saw on the news or on the internet, I can't remember that he had shot someone in self-defense. You know, it was a thing he'd actually done before. And he was like, I'm okay, but it's getting media attention and I don't like it, so I'm gonna go get another job for a while.

I gotta get outta town. He, he sounded okay, like fine actually. And we were texting and he's like, I'll call you next week. And I'm like, great. And we had another chat next week and then he is like, Hey, uh, I gotta run early. Let me call you again next week. And he didn't. And I sent him a text and I was like, oh, that's weird.

He usually checks in, he must be enjoying his new job. And he just never texted me back. And I was like, oh, that's weird. I left him a voicemail. Nothing. And then I found out on Twitter that he had killed himself and that's why he wasn't answering his texts. There was zero indication he was going through a little bit of a stressful time.

Right. But he didn't indicate any of that. And I remember being like, are you okay? And he is like, I used to shoot, you know, terrorists. I'm like, I've lived in a cave. Like he was, you know, he was really, he'd seen a lot of combat, so it was like not really something I thought was disturbing him that much. He was just really good at hiding it really, really good.

And anyway, it brought up a bunch of really intense questions like, should I have noticed something in his voice? Should I have paid closer attention to this, that the other thing, did I fail this guy? So, look, your friend's situation, obviously very complicated. What happened to him as a child? What happened to him in the military?

His struggles to stay consistently engaged in his relationships, his work situations, even when they treat him well, God knows the layers and layers of trauma that this guy is dealing with. He drinks to medicate these wounds because the wounds are profound. I can only assume that he's defending against your interventions, these different treatments and all that, because phasing all this stuff in a real way is probably terrifying.

It's painful. It's daunting. It's shameful. It must feel like a Pandora's box to him. Otherwise, why would he be laughing you off when he's, he's living his fricking car.

[00:46:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that detail about him laughing really broke my heart for both of them, actually.

[00:46:55] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, mine too. It's sad that a person who's this far gone is dismissing and kind of diminishing our friend here.

And it's sad that our friend here has to sit there and be laughed at when he is literally trying to save this guy's life. That is a very specific injury.

[00:47:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: But you know, he's not really laughing at our friend. Right. He's cramping around his wounds. That laugh is about him himself.

[00:47:16] Jordan Harbinger: Well, for sure. But what's also really complicated about this guy is he has moments of openness.

He won't do the real work right now, but he will acknowledge that he has a huge problem. He will call a rehab, he will go to detox, even if he won't fully engage.

[00:47:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Confusing signals to receive as a friend.

[00:47:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, very confusing. If this guy were a hundred percent unreachable, it would be easier to write him off.

But there's some part of him that is open to help. He's just in deep conflict about it. And so I really feel for our friend here, and that's what I was getting at, that his friend's situation is very complicated, but his situation in a way, it's getting simpler. He has tried in so many ways to help, and his friend has rejected that help and other sources of support again and again.

I think he's gone above and beyond for this guy, and now he's getting to a point where he is facing the very real limit of his power to save another human being. I know this is a theme often here on the show, but I just really wanna sit with that because it is so intense and so profound that I think it's easy to miss.

Our friend here is facing the limit of his power to save another human being. I just don't know if there's anything more devastating than that.

[00:48:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, it's so painful, especially for a special operations veteran, right? I get the sense that our friend here is super capable. He's incredibly driven. He just does not give up, and he feels a responsibility to prevent this guy from ending his life.

That is a huge burden to bear,

[00:48:41] Jordan Harbinger: but why he continues to carry that burden at this point? I think that's a really important question. My hunch is that there's a layer of genuine empathy and solidarity with a fellow veteran who's suffering, and I love him for that. Underneath that layer though, there's probably a lot more going on.

A fear of failing with this guy. Anxiety about the guilt and sadness he might feel if this guy continues to struggle or dies. Feelings about himself and his own struggles with addiction that he's seeing reflected in this guy's life.

[00:49:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, for sure. All of those things are probably in the mix. I also hear, again, interesting themes today, some profound anger.

Like he said, it took everything not to scream at him through the phone the last time they talked, but to your point, Jordan, I don't think he's just angry at his friend. I think he's angry about how powerless he is here.

[00:49:24] Jordan Harbinger: Well, exactly. That's an existential rage. That's why can't I make this whole situation conform to my wishes, and that's what our friend now needs to work through, and the only way to work through it is to accept it, which by the way sucks, which profoundly sucks.

We're back to our other favorite feedback Friday theme, which is morning. So this point you're at where you don't know what else to do for this guy, it's incredibly hard and super important. And sadly, I do think you need to let this guy continue down this path until he hits a lower bottom. And who knows if he will.

This might be the bottom. In six weeks, he might call you like, oh my God, I'm ready. I can't spend another night in my car. Or in a year he might be living on the street and get into even more serious trouble and then he'll be ready or, and this is a very painful thought, but I think you're ready to hear it.

Your friend might decide to take his own way out, and I sincerely hope he doesn't. But this is his journey. You just don't know. He doesn't know. No one knows. And your work now is to start accepting the not knowing. And to start relinquishing responsibility and control for another person's life. I wouldn't cut him off completely.

That's not what I'm saying. You can continue to text him every so often and say, Hey man, I'm thinking about your brother. I'm here. When you're ready for help, I will get you help. And then just be very thoughtful about how you engage with him. Just that availability, that is a gift, but he has to accept that gift.

And right now, in his very confused, very tragic way, he is saying, no thank you. You have to listen to that too and bear the sadness that comes along with it. I am very touched by your devotion to your friend. You're a real gem dude. I hope one day he can honor it. Until then, sit with what this guy is bringing up for you.

You'll find a ton of growth and wisdom in that as well. Sending you and your friend our best thoughts and a huge hug. Man, veterans are really going through it. Dude, it's really sad. Like super sad. So let's change gears here. So if you've been listening to the show for a while, you know, we used to do a recommendation of the week on Feedback.

Friday. We stopped doing it. I have no idea why. Probably I was not able to watch Netflix or do anything anymore 'cause I had kids if I had to guess. But anyway, Gabe and I are constantly sharing recommendations, movies, TV shows, documentaries, cool products, whatever it is. So we just figured we'd do that on the show and share them with y'all too, especially 'cause I still don't have time to freaking watch anything.

So Gabe, you said you had a good one this week. You wanna kick it off and tell us about it?

[00:51:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. I'm so excited to tell you about this. So my recommendation of the week is, and this will be a surprise to absolutely no one, a docuseries called Couples Therapy, which is on, I think it's now on Paramount Plus with Showtime, which you can get in a bunch of different places.

[00:52:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I've heard about this from a couple of people, so it's good. Oh, it's

[00:52:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: amazing. So the show basically follows a bunch of couples in New York City doing couples therapy with a really interesting psychologist named Orna Guralnick. So this is so wild. The producers built an exact replica of her therapy office on a sound stage, and then they installed cameras in the walls and they record all of the sessions.

And then they, I think they do five months of therapy and then they edit the sessions down to the most interesting moments and they, they weave them together and they do it brilliantly, I have to say. For a whole season. You're on a therapy journey with these couples who are really going through it. It is riveting.

[00:52:46] Jordan Harbinger: So these are real people, real couples talking, real couples, obviously they know they're on camera. We have to disclose that, but she's like, she's putting 'em through the ringer.

[00:52:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. She's a real psychologist. They're real people. She's a very effective psychologist. She's intense and she's doing, from what I can tell, real deep work, psychodynamic deep therapy with these people.

And these people. It's fascinating. I mean, in a way, the couples they choose are kind of, in certain ways, they're mundane and kind of archetypal, but in another way they're exceptional. Like each couple is fascinating, and that's part of what I love about the show. It just draws out the idiosyncrasies and the, the nuance of these people in a way that isn't cheesy or exploitative.

It's done in a spirit of great curiosity and care, which is very hard to do with reality tv. And of course you just watch it. Like, I can't believe I get to listen in on these people's therapy sessions. You know that fantasy of being a fly on the wall in other people's treatment.

[00:53:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, sure. Do

[00:53:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: this show scratches that itch.

It's incredible.

[00:53:45] Jordan Harbinger: I think everybody listening to feedback Friday knows exactly what wanting to be a fly on the wall in other people's trauma is like Totally. Yeah, that's, that sounds amazing. It, it's gonna be hard to watch 10 episodes of couples unpacking their trauma when the kids are playing with Legos and marble sets in the living room.

But I'll give it a shot.

[00:54:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Season four just recently came out. All four seasons are terrific. I binge every season in like two or three days. Highly, highly recommend. If you like feedback Friday, I think you're gonna like this too.

[00:54:11] Jordan Harbinger: Alright. Solid wreck. Before we guide the do cruise to its final port, in case you didn't know there's a subreddit for the show.

If you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners and us about specific episodes, if there was an episode you really liked, or an episode you really didn't like, or you want to share some additional thoughts or solicit pics of Gabe and his K Bonito hat, we'd love to have you come to. That's a real thread there, by the way.

So we're only talking about the the, the real shit. We'd love for you to come check out the subreddit. There's a lot of cool stuff happening there, and we have a lot of fun talking with you guys. You can find it at reddit.com/r/jordan harbinger, and if you don't know what Reddit is or what that means, don't worry.

We're gonna have other ways to interact with us in the future as well. Okay, next up.

[00:54:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've been talking with a couple friends recently and we've all been feeling like life these days. Not just our lives, but life. Life, like the quality of this moment in history. Is different now. I can't really put my finger on how I think it has something to do with the pandemic, but I don't know if the pandemic actually caused it.

It feels like before covid things were more alive, more interesting, more meaningful, and now they're less that way. There's more information and stimulus than ever. The world is continuing, but it seems to mean less and less and everything just feels kind of chaotic and meaningless. I wanna say that it feels like everything is gray now or sapped of its significance, but that's not really it.

The world just feels different in some fundamental way. But here's the thing, I'm not depressed. I have a pretty fulfilling, relatively high paying creative job. I live in a great city. I get to travel. I have friends. So I don't think it's that my psychology is radically off. There are things about my life I wish were better, but I'm a fairly positive, high functioning person.

I'm happy I've talked about this with multiple people and they all seem to be having a similar experience. Am I crazy? Is the world less meaningful now? Have we gone through some huge shift historically? How can I rediscover that sense of meaning and aliveness that now feels like a distant memory? Or is it just gone, signed trying to divine why?

Everything's just kind of fine.

[00:56:21] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. What a question to go out on Gabe, right? Holy. So hitting us with the heavy philosophy as we all try to cruise into the weekend. Geez,

[00:56:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: I really responded to this message. I was like, I have no idea how we're gonna answer this, but I know what this dude is talking about, so other people must be feeling this too.

[00:56:36] Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah, no kidding. I see this kind of conversation online. I mean, everywhere. Well, okay. No, you're not crazy. Something has definitely shifted. I don't know exactly what it is. I definitely think the pandemic had something to do with it and was the beginning of this kind of thing. But to your point, I don't know if Covid itself did it or if the Lockdowns did it or if Covid just happened to coincide with some kind of historical slash cultural shift.

Who knows? Maybe the pandemic was part of that shift. I feel like that's something one of our guests could better opine on. I mean, it could be the split that's going on in the country that was super exacerbated by the pandemic as well. I don't know, but I know what you mean. I feel it too. I think we all do.

It's not that life sucks all around. There's still so much cool stuff going on in the world, so much excitement and beauty, but it feels like you have to work harder to enjoy it somehow. And I am no philosopher. I leave it to Ryan Holiday. I'm no historian, but I do think that technology has a lot to do with it as well.

Our devices, these apps. They put a lot of layers between ourselves and the world. They're obviously amazing in so many ways. I love Instagram. I love Reddit even more. I love that I can be in touch with so many people, including you guys. But yeah, they're also kind of depressing in a literal sense of the term.

These layers of abstraction they depress, they take us further and further away from a direct, visceral, meaningful experience of life. And they foment conflict. Like people engage with things that make them enraged, and so you get more of it and that doesn't feel good. And I know none of this is an original take, but it's true.

That's a huge reason I think life feels so different now. It is different because life is being mediated through technology and algorithms rather than lived, and that was really the case during the lockdowns and pandemic. Also social media, the news, ai, they're creating more and more complexity and more and more chaos.

It's fascinating and exciting, but it's also kind of insane. The news cycle moves quickly. Everybody has an opinion. Everybody feels like they're supposed to have one and express it. Our values as a country, as a species, really, I mean, I don't want to go into Grandpa Jordan mode here, but they are in a real crisis.

I'm not even talking about politics or religion. I'm just talking about like what we all agree makes life worth living. I feel that is completely confused now. I really feel outta my depth talking about this stuff because it is such a huge topic. Gabe, what Say you, how's your these days?

[00:58:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, my OU is a lot better.

Thank you. But I, yeah, I feel everything our friend here is describing, and I've also gone through periods where it felt worse than it does now. You go through weird dips or whatever. It's interesting when he said that life felt meaningless and that everything was sapped of significance. My first thought was, are you depressed, bro?

But he's saying he's not. So I'll take his word for it. But I also think that there's kind of like a very subtle existential depression that we all have now, just being born into this moment in history. It might be so subtle or also so all pervasive that we don't even realize it's there. It's like, you know when your glasses get smudged and you start to think the world is blurry or your eyes are just bad, but really you just need to clean your glass.

I don't know why that metaphor came to mind, but that's the image that came to mind. I. But here's the good news. There's still a lot of meaning, so much meaning to be made in the world. There's always that meaning available and this weird moment in history, whatever this is. I don't know if it's just a strange decade or if we're all realizing that the West is some kind of late stage empire that is slowly crumbling in front of our eyes, which people talk about,

[01:00:05] Jordan Harbinger: eh, I'm not sure I really buy into that, but I get why people feel that way.

[01:00:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hard to say. I don't know. I kind of think that that is partly true, but I'm the last person to opine on that, but it is. That's also fascinating. But look, whatever's happening, I'm trying to view it as a wake up call to just keep creating meaning. However I can. In my relationships, in my work, in my yoga practice.

Doing the show is a huge part of that for me. Traveling when I can and not staring at my goddamn phone the whole time, but having real moments with real people in real places. And then, yeah, also later posting about it on Instagram because you know, you gotta do the self-promotion, you gotta document the fall of Rome, but not living my life through the phone and then taking all of that back into my relationships, back home, into my writing, into my conversations with you, Jordan.

We do have to work harder to do that now, I think. The experience of creating meaning and being fulfilled and experiencing the beauty of this world directly that is still there and it's still amazing and it matters now more than ever.

[01:01:09] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. For me, it's all about this show my families and friends.

That's it. And a little bit of travel where I can, those two halves of my life really do nourish me. For other people, it's other things. There's no right way to create meaning, but spoiler alert, it ultimately comes down to relationships. So I appreciate this letter because it's an opportunity to stop and go, what does matter to me?

What should our short time on this earth be about?

[01:01:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Uh, such big questions though,

[01:01:35] Jordan Harbinger: but it's so big that sometimes I don't wanna think about it. 'cause then I feel like I'm doing it wrong. But we do need to think about it. And then we need to follow the answers to the experiences. And they don't need to be big experiences.

They can be tiny ones. The tiny ones are usually the best in my view. Follow those to the things that make our lives worth living. So my take is keep making an effort to do that. Let history do what it will. Let culture do what it will. You just can't control these huge forces. But you can go for a hike, you can move your body.

You can read great books. You can take a road trip with a friend, you can keep a journal, you can watch your kids. Go ape shit in the living room and just laugh, which is what I'm gonna do after this. You can raw dog life guys. That's what we gotta do. Got a raw dog life. Skip the layers, go back to the source.

That's it. Hope y'all enjoyed the show. I wanna thank everybody who wrote in and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Speaking of what gives life meaning now the best things that have happened in my life have come through my friends, the circle of people I know, like and trust. I'm teaching you how to build that same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course.

Gotta change that URL to six minute friendship or something. It's a hundred percent free. It is not gross. It's not schmoozy. It's on the think if it platform@sixminutenetworking.com. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks, build relationships before you need 'em. 'cause that's all that matters right now in this crumbling edifice of civilization.

You can find it all@sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. I'm also on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Foggerty, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I ain't your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing things you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a trailer for another episode with retired astronaut Chris Hadfield.

[01:03:47] Clip: I watched the first two people walk on the moon and I thought, wow, I'm gonna grow up to be something. Why don't I grow up to be that? That's the coolest thing ever. It is purely the direct results of all of those little minute by minute decisions that I made since starting when I was a kid, just turning 10 when I got the telephone call asking if I would like to be an astronaut.

I was at the top of my profession. I was the top test pilot in the US Navy as a Canadian, and then to be selected as an astronaut. Suddenly, I'm a guy who knows nothing. I sit in my office and I'm like, I'm a complete imposter. I have zero skills right now whenever anybody has offered to teach me something for free.

I've always taken 'em up on it. How are you getting ready for the major events in your life? The things that matter to you, the things that have consequence? Are you just sort of waving your hands and go, oh, it probably turned out okay. Or are you actually using the time available to get ready for it?

Maybe it will turn out okay, but if the stakes are high, to me, that's just not a gamble I willingly take. If at some point in life you think you know everything you need to know, then you're just in the process of diet. What astronauts do for a living is visualize failure, figuring out the next thing that's gonna kill you, and then practice it over and over and over again.

Until we can beat that thing, we know how to deal with it, then you do a much better job and a more calm and comfortable way of doing it as well. You don't miss it. You're not overwhelmed by it. It's something you could do while thinking of something else. You notice how beautiful it is, how magnificent it is, how much fun it is.

You're not just. Completely overwhelmed by the demands of the moment

[01:05:27] Jordan Harbinger: for more on how Commander Chris Hadfield managed to stay focused on his dream. Starting at age nine to become the first Canadian to walk in space. Check out episode 4 0 8 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Strictly Stalking Podcast.

Hey, listeners, I know there's no shortage of true crime content out there, but I have to tell you about this new podcast to binge on. It's called Strictly Stalking, which is a clever title I admit. Every Tuesday hosts Jamie and Jake cover unique stalking case by interviewing, stalking survivors, advocates and experts.

Each episode is jaw dropping and really opens your eyes to seeing that stalkers aren't just jealous exes. They can be neighbors, family members, classmates, even complete strangers. Just imagine being stalked by somebody you met on a dating app that's episode 1 53, or by the worship leader from your church, episode 1 37.

I mean, that's surprising, but shouldn't be, right? Because those people often seek positions of power and they're creepy. It's just terrifying to know that these downright. Well, yeah, creepy experiences are real. They're super common. There's not much our justice system can even do to help the victims until it reaches just out of control levels of violence and threats.

Jamie and Jake are more than just the voices on the podcast. They're actually trying to make a positive change for survivors of stalking, and they're taking us along for the ride. Glad they're helping bring awareness to the reality of stalking and hopefully help others who are in these types of crazy situations.

We've heard those situations on Feedback Friday. They're absolutely real and absolutely terrifying. Check out strictly stalking on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.