1012: Pal’s Husband Eyes Your OnlyFans on the Sly | Feedback Friday

1012: Pal's Husband Eyes Your OnlyFans on the Sly | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback. Friday producer, the Seven Grain Toast, balancing out this greasy Breakfast Buffet of Life drama. Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:00:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Better than being the napkin dispenser or something. This feels like a promotion from what, what was it a couple weeks ago?

Drink Coaster.

[00:00:20] Jordan Harbinger: You're moving up Gabe from Barware to Complex Carbohydrate. Yeah,

[00:00:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: well, higher nutritional value, so thank you.

[00:00:26] Jordan Harbinger: I don't know. I don't know if I trust all seven of those grains that they've included, but it, it is lower glycemic index, that's for sure.

[00:00:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: What a weird conspiracy theory. I. Seven grain toast is not real.

[00:00:35] Jordan Harbinger: You never know, man. There could be a hidden eighth grain in there. They do call it Dave's Killer Bread. You never know what's in that. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you, or you can just ignore it and enjoy the show.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from undercover agents and gold smugglers, money laundering experts, rocket scientists, and war correspondents. This week we had the one and only Dr.

Fauci on the show love him or hate him. We also had a skeptical Sunday on participation trophies. On Fridays though, we take listener letters off for advice, play the occasional obnoxious soundbite and warm our collective hands on the hearth of our listeners. Michelin Star Life drama. Mm-Hmm. So a couple weeks back, Jen and I took the kids to Legoland and the zoo in San Diego.

And Bob Fogarty, our producer, he's the guy who makes sure that the show reaches you every week. He handles our publishing, our show notes, our episode titles, all that. He hooked us up with tickets to the zoo, which was super sweet of him. He has a family hookup, an insider hookup. Most people who listen to the show, they don't know Bob personally.

He is one of a kind though, smart, funny, super sweet creepily, good at puns and alliteration. Just a real, if anything, we have to talk him back off the ledge a little bit on some of those things. Like, hey man, kinda like your sign-offs, just sometimes right on the line. He also works at all hours of the night, possibly a vampire, uh, a gentle, cuddly vampire.

Somebody you'd see on what we do in the shadows or something. You routinely get a slack message from that guy at like four o'clock in the morning. Anyway, I just wanted to give Bob a shout out for just giving us an amazing weekend down in San Diego. Doing the show allows me to work with some truly remarkable humans.

The guests of course show fans. That's you guys. And of course my team and everyone around here is just so rad. It's such a blessing. I feel very lucky to work with people like this, especially when we read your Terrible Boss and terrible coworker stories. Mm-hmm. It really puts everything into perspective.

So thank you Bob. My kids wouldn't stop talking about you on the car ride home. Jaden and Juniper we're like, we miss Bob. It was honestly a little annoying 'cause I don't need more competition for my kids' love. But that's what happens when you give toddlers an amazing day at the zoo. So you're a real one man.

Oh, one more thing. All y'all. We made an update to our website, so for all episodes going forward, if you go to the landing page for a specific episode, you'll see icons for the major podcast apps under the show, art. Now, those have been there forever, right? It says like Spotify, apple, before, if you clicked them, it would just take you to the show.

Now they take you to that specific episode on that specific app. Before, like I said, it would just take you to the podcast in general and you'd have to scroll, scroll, scroll. Now it should take you there on the app itself and be more direct as of episode, I don't know, 1000, whatever. So thanks to Alex Young, one of our listeners giving us the suggestions.

So we made it happen. Now we just need, I don't know, Gabe, we need our intern to go back through the other 1008 episodes and just change all those links. That sounds like a fun filled summer, doesn't

[00:03:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: it? I'm gonna let you make that request 'cause I'm not gonna be that guy.

[00:03:30] Jordan Harbinger: How to lose an intern 1 0 1.

Alright, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:03:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I recently lived outside the US for three years and to make ends meet, I started in OnlyFans. I was surprised by how quickly it took off. You're the only one. Yeah.

[00:03:46] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, yeah. I surprised people, like naked photos of other people.

I don't know. Do we need a link for verification purposes, Gabriel? Probably. I think we might need a link for verification purposes.

[00:03:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: For science. For Science, for Jordan's Science. That's right. So she goes on, one fan was especially interested and started placing custom orders for videos. Immediately he told me his wildest fantasies, which were sometimes gross and disturbing, and I played along like it was hot.

After chatting with him on and off for four months, one of his messages made everything he had previously said, click into place. That's when I realized. He's my friend's new husband.

[00:04:26] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That's quite a reveal. That must have been a weird day.

[00:04:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: I felt sick and so gross. He literally saw all my bits. Yeah,

[00:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: bro. Yeah. How do you go to brunch with these people after that? That's the question.

[00:04:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Seriously, can you pass the bits? The grits? The grits is what I meant to say. Yeah. My friend married him after I moved outta the country, so I had never met him and I never saw him on the app, so I didn't realize it was him.

The only way he could have found my only fan so quickly was that she must have told him and he looked for me. I knew he and my friend were having marriage problems and now knowing his fantasies, I can see why. Oh geez. Oh that is brutal. I wonder what that actually means. God knows. Best not pin that down too much.

Yeah, so she goes on. My friend and I were quite close before I moved away. We were in self-help study and sharing circles, and whenever I came back to the US we'd go to lunch, go shopping, stuff like that. Another thing that bothers me in all this is how her husband spent money with me while he and my friend are poor.

Literally duct tape on the car, bumper poor. Oh man. So this dude is, yeah, super gluing the bumper back on his 2003 Pontiac Aztec, and meanwhile, he is sending, I don't know, hundreds of dollars to his wife's good friend for homemade porn. Ugh, what a mess.

[00:05:42] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, this dude needs to delete OnlyFans from his phone and start following Dave Ramsey or Susie Orman or something like that.

This is personal finance 1 0 1 people. The porn budget is, it's always secondary to the transportation budget.

[00:05:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Obviously stop porn in and follow Susie Orman. That's what I say exactly.

[00:05:59] Jordan Harbinger: If I'm not mistaken, that was her original catchphrase.

[00:06:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: She retired it weirdly.

[00:06:03] Jordan Harbinger: Not sure why it's catchy.

[00:06:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm now back in the US and we'll see my friend soon.

On one hand, I don't want to tell her and hurt her. On the other hand, I know what it's like to be in a marriage for years and regret not getting out sooner. Their marriage has already been difficult and this may save her years of deception and hurt and their religion. What he did and is probably still doing is cheating and grounds for divorce.

Then again, maybe she'll choose to stay with him. At least then she would know who she married and perhaps open up to his kinks. How do I decide what to do? Signed an OnlyFans Pro who met the only fan who was a no-Go. Oh,

[00:06:40] Jordan Harbinger: oh man, what a mess.

[00:06:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Disaster.

[00:06:42] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe. I'm thinking about this letter we took on our end of year episode last year from the woman whose boyfriend lied to her about his HIV diagnosis.

You remember that

[00:06:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: one? Oh, yeah. So she wasn't sure whether to tell his new girlfriend about him and his health issues or just stay out of it.

[00:06:55] Jordan Harbinger: Right. And, and her take was, if inserting yourself into somebody else's life could save a life or make someone else's life much better, you gotta do it. Mm-Hmm. And then it's just up to them to decide what to do.

With that information and this story, it's not exactly a matter of life and death, but it is about the quality of her friend's marriage. A pretty good friend at that. Not like a random person she knows from wherever. Mm-Hmm. Also, our friend here didn't do anything wrong. I mean, she's just living her life, running her business.

And this dude found her, lied to her kind of via omission anyway, and then started a sort of para sexual relationship with her.

[00:07:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is that a thing? Para sexual?

[00:07:29] Jordan Harbinger: You know, parasocial is the relationship that show fans have to us. Right? Like we don't know most of them, but they know us really well. Right. And we communicate sort of almost unidirectional us to them, except for the occasional email or whatever.

But this is,

[00:07:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah, I like it. Para sexual. Yeah, para sexual. It's para sexual. I take your point. This is on him entirely.

[00:07:45] Jordan Harbinger: Right. It's not like she flirted with him and lured him to her only fans and now she feels guilty. Right. And she wants to come clean. This dude no has dug his own grave. I'm leaning towards telling your friend, it's probably gonna be a tough conversation.

She might be pretty hurt. She might be angry. You might catch some of that, but it's not gonna be because of something you did. It'll be because her husband is lying to her doing something inappropriate, being irresponsible in a number of ways. And in that conversation, I would tell her what you told us. I would say.

Look, I was torn about whether to tell you, I know how awful this must be and I don't wanna hurt you, but I know firsthand what it's like to be in a problematic marriage. And if I were in your shoes, I would wanna know, and I think your friend is gonna see that you're trying to help her. Even if it's tough news to take in and maybe her initial knee-jerk reaction is not, you know what you want.

[00:08:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, now that you know who her customer actually is, you're helping keep the secret if you don't speak up.

[00:08:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, good point. Her hands are. Kind of tied here.

[00:08:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, if your friend ever finds out that her husband is sending you money and consuming your content, which I think there's a decent chance she will when she, yeah.

Eventually notices all the OnlyFans payments on their Visa bill, or, I don't know, finds his iPad open to your account or whatever. She's probably gonna be furious and go straight to you. Like, how could you do this to me? So

[00:08:54] Jordan Harbinger: you think this guy is an iPad? The guy who scot taped the

[00:08:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: rear view mirror on his Pontiac, Aztec, I don't know.

Yeah, an old model. Maybe one that still has a home button, for sure. Yeah. Gabe, I didn't know you were such an iPad snub man. I'm not an, I just bought my first one in like 12 years and it doesn't have a button. What do you do on that thing? Do you be, I bet you read on it. Are you an iPad reader? Yeah, I got my Libby app.

You know that And managing my OnlyFans, so yeah, drop that link for science folks, for all of our science, whatever devices he's using to essentially, is this cheating? I think in a way it is.

[00:09:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I

[00:09:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: mean, it's with somebody he knows, which makes it or sort of knows or knows of, and he has some connection to her, so that makes it more than just Mm-Hmm.

He's not just browsing porn. It's like there, there's some element of cheating to this that I can't quite put my finger on. Right.

[00:09:42] Jordan Harbinger: He's not just on a random website. Right. He specifically sought this gal out because. His wife said, my friend started in OnlyFans and he was like, oh. And then found her.

Exactly. That's more para sexual. Yes. Than watching strangers do it on PornHub or whatever.

[00:09:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: So whatever devices he is using to do that, she's gonna find out. And when she confronts you, what are you gonna say? Yeah, I, I knew it was him, but I didn't want to tell you. Or you're gonna have to lie and say that you didn't know and that it's gonna be even worse.

Getting out in front of this is not just the right thing to do, it's also protecting yourself.

[00:10:14] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Oh God, what if she's like, I wanna see what you requested. And then it's like all these weird things you did for, oh God, don't go down. Maybe don't think about that anyway, Gabe, I totally agree. But what she does with that information, right, that that's up to her.

Right. She might leave him, she might stay with him. If she stays with him, things might not change. Or to your point, this might be an opportunity for them to become more honest with one another and confront some important stuff like how he spends money. 'cause obviously this is not on the up and up. Or what he's into in terms of the sexy time stuff, which might also be against their religion.

And maybe that's why he found this as an outlet. But I mean, look, that's up to them. Time to take your friend out to coffee, potentially destroy her marriage over a macha latte. That's how Gabe would do it.

[00:10:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: That is true. Matcha always helps. Yeah. I think, is

[00:10:59] Jordan Harbinger: it the matcha or is that sugary syrup they put in there?

[00:11:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: For me, it's the, the brutal caffeine rush of Masha. I just, I like having a very small Japanese heart attack. While you tackle the most devastating news of your life,

[00:11:11] Jordan Harbinger: she's gonna need that extra energy to rip that bumper off her husband's car on the way to the house to confront him. That is gonna be one hell of a conversation.

And I look, I'm sorry that this went down, but it's really, this is gonna sound callous. This is not really your problem. All you need to do is give your friend the information that she needs to make the right call for herself and good luck. Gabe. I think one note here, we sort of touched on this, she really might get the bad end of a knee-jerk reaction.

Like, well, you're a whore. You know, like you're the one who, and then it's like, be open to her saying that and then in a week being like, I didn't mean it. I'm so sorry. And just be like, I know. Yeah, it's super screwed up and Mm-hmm. Forget you even, let's both forget you even said that and move on. Because I just don't see her taking this well, and it's really hard to be like, oh, you didn't do anything wrong, hon.

Let me turn around and go yell at my husband. I mean, it's gonna be hard for her to process all this when she's like, I haven't been to Starbucks in six months because we don't have money. And she finds that her husband gave you I, I don't know, $2,800 for be whole picks. Like that's not gonna go over well.

Alright. Ugh. You know what my kink is Gabriel

[00:12:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: roasting me for every single aspect of my personality.

[00:12:18] Jordan Harbinger: Actually, you're not too far off. Well, shamelessly hyping the fine products and services that support this show. Oh yeah. You like that too? Yeah. And be whole picks. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help Ever Find Yourself Scrolling through social media, you're comparing yourself.

You feel like crap, somebody else has got a shinier, prettier life, shinier, prettier kids, whatever it is. Maybe their house is clean. That's the bar these days. They all have it together and you don't. It's really easy to forget that behind the snapshots, everybody's got their struggles, their messy days, their challenges.

They just don't make the freaking feed folks. So when you find yourself wishing that your life looked like somebody else's, that's where something like therapy can really make a difference. That has made a difference for me. Because I do that, we all do that. Platforms like Better Help are fantastic because they connect you with a therapist who can help you focus on your own ish rather than getting sidetracked by what everybody else is doing.

It's about crafting a version of your fulfilling life, not chasing somebody else's fake one. And with Better help, it's so convenient. You can chat, you can video, you can phone. It's all based on your schedule. So if you're feeling stuck in a comparison game, maybe it's time to give therapy a try and start focusing on building a life that actually feels right to you.

[00:13:21] Jen Harbinger: Stop comparing and start focusing with better help. Visit better help.com/jordan today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. HEL p.com/jordan.

[00:13:30] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Cremo. After hitting the gym hard, nothing beats a good shower. You know, every three days and lately I've been all about CMOs bourbon, vanilla body wash.

It masks that odor that I naturally exude from my pores. Yeah, get the visuals. Just soak it in folks. Cremo really nails it. They've got a great hydrating formula and it's soapy whatever. It breaks down the stuff that soap's supposed to do, but what I like is the smell, and I'm not a smells guy. I actually hate things that smell.

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And I really think they got a good lineup of stuff. They also have other men's grooming tools like shave cream, beard oil, shampoo, all with their own standout. Since, uh, I've become a fan.

[00:14:24] Jen Harbinger: You can find Cremo Men's Body Wash in its new distinctive bourbon vanilla scent@walmartorwalmart.com. Once again, that's Walmart or walmart.com.

[00:14:32] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening too and supporting the show, filling our sponsor's coffers, possibly with that only fence cash that does keep the lights on around here to learn more and get links to all the great discounts and deals that you hear on the show. They're all in one searchable, clickable place.

Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

[00:14:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 37-year-old woman, and I had to care for my mother, who was an alcoholic from a young age. There were times when I had to physically intervene due to her drinking, including a traumatic incident in my early twenties when she attempted suicide and I had to take a knife from her hand.

[00:15:13] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God. That is awful. Wow. I'm so sorry to hear this. What a parent and what a childhood experiences like this have gotta leave an impression. Well, of course they leave quite an impression. Your poor mom, obviously, she was in a lot of pain slash maybe still is in that pain.

[00:15:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: She's been sober since I left for basic training when I was 24 years old.

But our relationship has not improved. In fact, it seems to have deteriorated further. We constantly fight and it seems we can't have a normal conversation without her taking what I say personally and out of context. She truly believes that I wanna hurt her when in reality I just want her to heal from her own traumas and be happy.

It hurts me to know that she thinks I set out to intentionally hurt her. Mm,

[00:15:55] Jordan Harbinger: tough mom to have. I wonder why she thinks you wanna hurt her, maybe being challenged to look at some of this stuff and address it. That must be threatening to her in some way.

[00:16:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: I also feel that my mother doesn't truly know or understand me as a person and constantly judges my choices during the pandemic.

I made an effort to keep in touch through weekly video calls only to realize that I was the only one initiating contact when I stopped calling. We went weeks or even months without speaking, as she wouldn't reach out to me. I've addressed this issue multiple times and she's admitted that she needs to do better, but her behavior remains unchanged.

Then recently we had a heated argument during which I called her an asshole, which I know I shouldn't have done. She charged at me as if she was gonna hit me. Then stop just short of doing so. I believe my mother's unresolved trauma and lack of self-love, contribute to her negativity.

[00:16:46] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, always, right?

Isn't that always a kind of how this works?

[00:16:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: I've reached a point where it might be necessary to distance myself from her. The problem is I have an amazing relationship with my father, and I don't want to create a division or strain within the family. My parents are still together. They've been married for 37 years, and my dad understands the toxic dynamic with my mom.

He himself has a tumultuous relationship with her, but he still loves her and I think he feels responsible for her. So it's very unlikely that he would ever leave her. Well, that dynamic makes a lot of sense, doesn't

[00:17:20] Jordan Harbinger: it? Yeah, totally. Mom is super vulnerable and unstable and can't really relate honestly and consistently with other people, or at least with her daughter anyway.

Mm-hmm. And dad props her up and feels responsible for her. I mean, this is all kind of textbook

[00:17:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: I. Meanwhile, my mom constantly throws it in my face about how great my relationship with my dad is. Oh, that's hard. She's getting it from all angles. Yeah. I no longer want this toxicity in my life. I'm exhausted from the constant disappointment and drama, and I yearn for peace.

I. I feel as if I've exhausted all means to make our relationship better. How can I maintain a strong relationship with my father while distancing myself from my mother signed looking for protection without losing the affection of the guy who gives me connection in a family that's infected?

[00:18:04] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. What a situation this is.

Well, hey, look, like I said, I am very sorry that you have this mom. I'm sure growing up with a parent like this has created its own traumas for you having to take care of an addicted parent from a young age. That scene of taking the knife out of her hand, all of this is just, is devastating. You deserved a lot better as a kid.

And I hope you're doing okay. I hope you found ways of working through the legacy of this childhood. Like doing a lot of drugs. No, I'm therapy. Therapy. I meant to say therapy. Meant to say

[00:18:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: therapy.

[00:18:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. Or drugs in the course of doing therapy that are prescribed by a doctor. Yeah.

[00:18:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: It depends on

[00:18:38] Jordan Harbinger: the drugs.

What was that a few months ago? Like my MMA coach slash therapist and it's like, hang on a second. Look, I'm really sorry for your mom too, because it sounds like life is really hard for her. She doesn't know how to work through all this stuff. Like you said, years of trauma in this woman. So even talking about how she feels, that's probably extremely overwhelming for her to say nothing of her apparent envy and resentment about your relationship with your dad.

So everything you're going through, it does make a lot of sense. Your anger, your disappointment, your exhaustion, the impulse to distance yourself from your mom. I get it. And if you feel like pulling away from your mom is what you need to do, maybe that is the right call. But then you wanna stay close with your dad.

So how do you do it? Well, the short answer is you pull back from mom and you double down in your relationship with your dad separately. You guys have your own calls, your own hangs. You text privately, you have a separate relationship. And look, maybe you tell him, dad, I cannot be super close with mom right now.

We're really struggling to relate in a healthy way. It's causing me a lot of pain, so I'm going to pull back. And I'm really sorry if that puts you in a tough spot. I still wanna be close with you, and I really hope that we can do that. Just call it out explicitly. Don't expect the guy to read between the lines or read your mind.

Call it out explicitly and tell him, you know, I might not call mom as much anymore, which she doesn't seem to want anyway, but I still love you. I'm not going anywhere. The more complicated answer though, is that the quality of your relationship with your dad. I'm afraid that's not entirely up to you. You can do everything in your power to stay close with him, but he's gonna go through his own process here.

He has his own feelings and you taking a strong stance on your mom, that might actually bring up a number of difficult things for him. It might make him feel like he's caught in the middle. It might make him resent you a little bit if it creates new conflict for him. With your mom, it might make him angry or even scared that you're standing up to your mom and you're drawing this boundary, which I mean, it seems like he struggles to do that with her, so that might be terrifying for him.

[00:20:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or on the flip side, he might even envy our friend here on some level. Yeah. From being able to do that when he can't.

[00:20:33] Jordan Harbinger: I think that's very possible. All of these are possible, and a lot of that's just gonna be outta your control. Now I get the sense that your dad denies and represses a lot. That's probably how he's able to stay with your mom in the first place.

Mm-Hmm. Because if you were to fully confront the reality of her personality, the dynamic of their marriage, the damage your mom has caused, I think it would probably be a lot harder for him to stick around. Right? So even if your decision to pull back does make your dad feel some type of way, he might not be very in touch with those feelings, or might not share them or act on them in a way that would compromise your relationship.

So that's potentially good news, good in air quotes, of course, good in a certain limited way, which is your relationship with him might be safe. But I'd start getting comfortable with the possibility that redefining your relationship with your mom will still have some ripple effects in your family, and that you won't be able to control the outcome here 100%.

But the fact that you want to control things in this way, I do think that that's meaningful because you're working hard to ensure a certain outcome here when that outcome, it's not yours alone, to determine because it involves another person, your father, who has his own psychology and his own feelings and his own choices.

So I think that might be the hardest part of this situation, not just pulling back from mom, but accepting that you can't necessarily avoid any tension with dad in the process.

[00:21:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: That is a really good point, Jordan. Look, I think our friend has some very fair reasons for pulling away from mom. I don't know if she needs to never talk to her again, but clearly this is a painful relationship.

They might just need to retreat to their corners for a little while, hit the reset button and try again down the road. But what I'm curious to know is now that she's an adult, what exactly is causing this pain again and again? Obviously there's a very painful history here. Her mom's addiction, her suicide attempt, and now there's the way that she relates or, or doesn't relate to her daughter, right?

Her judgment, her envy slash resentment about a relationship with her dad, her remoteness, all of that is very clear. And our friend here is also bringing some really interesting stuff to this dynamic with her mom. For one thing, she said that she feels that, what was it? My, my mother doesn't truly know or understand me as a person.

She constantly judges my choices. So there's a need here, a very legitimate need and also a very old one to be known by her mother, to be welcomed by her, to be loved by her. She's carrying that need into adulthood and she's looking for it to be met by a mother who I think it's fair to say, just cannot meet that need.

[00:22:56] Jordan Harbinger: Right? But that never stops. Somebody from trying does it, right? I mean, it's her mom. So it's not crazy that she wants her mom to know her and love her. It it's totally normal,

[00:23:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: not crazy at all, which is why she called her every week during the pandemic and she initiated contact and she pushed for them to be close.

But. The subtext of those calls seems to be, mom, please show me that you care that you love me, that you're invested in me too.

[00:23:18] Jordan Harbinger: Right. That it's not just her who wants a relationship.

[00:23:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. But when she stops calling, her mom doesn't reach out. And that is devastating.

[00:23:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's like one of those one-sided friendships where your friend never calls you

[00:23:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: except it's your mother.

[00:23:29] Jordan Harbinger: Except it's your mom. Yeah. And you realize like, oh, they don't really care.

[00:23:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Super hurtful, but she still doesn't give up. Right. She addresses the issue multiple times with her mom, and her mom is like, I know I need to do better. And then she doesn't make an effort. And then they have that fight. She calls her mom an asshole.

Her mom charges at her. She is litigating this very old conflict. She's expressing her rage, her very legitimate rage, had a mother who will not give her the love she wants and deserves. And her mom is coming back at her with her own rage. And it's not entirely clear what that is, but I think it's wrapped up in a lot of shame and frustration.

But they're not making any progress. Right. So our friend here gets to this point, which is fine. You know what, I'm done. I can't talk to you anymore. Which I also understand. But then, and this might be the most meaningful part of her letter, she doesn't want to create a division or strain within the family.

[00:24:16] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That jumped out at me too, because it's like you're not the one creating the strain here. Your mom is,

[00:24:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: well, in a big way, yes. She had a child. She owed that child love and safety and connection, and she didn't always give that to her. So you could say that mom failed first, but now that we're at this point in the story, I think it's more accurate to say they are both creating this strife.

Because I think what our friend here is doing is she's enacting an old situation with her mom in different ways again and again hoping that her mom will finally respond to her differently, even though at the same time she's saying, I'm done. I'm done with this. We're not gonna talk anymore. Which, okay, maybe you've decided to be done in terms of calling her all the time or visiting, but that doesn't mean that you're done wanting, needing a mom who can relate to you, a mom who loves you, or at least knows how to express that love.

As long as that wish remains, and it's a perfectly fair wish. We all have it, but as long as that wish remains unresolved, her mom will continue to cause her great pain.

[00:25:14] Jordan Harbinger: Right, right. Even if they don't talk,

[00:25:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: maybe even, especially if they don't talk, because then it's confirmed, right? Mm-Hmm. Mom doesn't want to talk to me, mom isn't there for me.

[00:25:23] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Mom is not really playing the role of my mom.

[00:25:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Not the mom she craves anyway,

[00:25:27] Jordan Harbinger: but So is that part of the enactment too? Just cutting her off?

[00:25:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: It might be consciously, she might be going, I have to cut mom off because it's too painful. But unconsciously she might be going, I'm gonna cut mom off and see if that finally does it.

[00:25:41] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Maybe that'll finally make her change, and I have some sympathy for that because that's kind of the first thing that occurred to me. Like, what if I cut her off? Then she sees that she doesn't have a, you know? Mm-Hmm. That actually, that was my default, which is probably not super healthy.

[00:25:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: That could be one of the things in the mix here.

Mm-Hmm. There's one other thing we need to touch on, which is she loves her dad and she says she has an amazing relationship with him. And look, I believe her. When mom is intoxicated a lot of the time and unstable and doesn't always wanna live. The more stable parent is essential, right? And I'm sure she has a lot of love for her father, a lot of gratitude, and I'm so glad she has that.

But I also suspect that there's a lot more to her feelings about her dad. Like she said, he himself has a tumultuous relationship with her mom, but he still loves her. He feels responsible for her. It's very unlikely that he would ever leave her if you were raging at your mother who hurt you and continues to hurt you in various ways.

How would you feel about the guy who sticks with her and walks on eggshells around her and refuses to challenge her in any way?

[00:26:37] Jordan Harbinger: Eh, I see what you're getting at.

[00:26:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: I do wonder if she also feels disappointed by dad too, and maybe more than disappointed, maybe angry, maybe hurt,

[00:26:45] Jordan Harbinger: right? Like, why are you protecting this person who caused so much chaos in our lives?

Who hurt both of us? Why am I the only person who's standing up to her?

[00:26:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fair questions? In my opinion, I think our friend here probably has a lot of feelings about her dad, some wonderful, some more complicated, and I do wonder if she might have idealized him a little bit growing up or developed some blind spots when it came to dad, because acknowledging that the better parent in your home was also flawed.

It's probably too painful and probably still is, or, you know, maybe it's just hard for her to be in touch with her sadness or her anger about her dad when her mom is the more obviously problematic one.

[00:27:21] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Gabe way to ruin her relationship with both her parents. She writes in with a problem with her mom, and you're like, you know what?

Here's why. The only relationship in your life actually has a bunch of other problems that you're not seeing. Oh,

[00:27:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: man, is that what I'm doing here? I don't know. Yeah.

[00:27:34] Jordan Harbinger: She wrote in asking how to save her relationship with her dad, and here you are like, well, here's the problem with that relationship.

[00:27:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, look, I'm not trying to poke holes in their relationship for no reason.

I love that they're close. She deserves at least one good parent. But you pointed out that she cannot control ultimately that relationship. Right? What I'm saying is how does that relationship actually work? Why is your dad so important to you? Is trying this hard to make sure that you two stay close no matter what.

Does that itself point to some very important feelings that you might not be in touch with in a family. By the way, that probably didn't make much room for them growing up.

[00:28:08] Jordan Harbinger: Now I hear you. Because all those feelings are informing every single line of this letter.

[00:28:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think so. Exactly. So here's what I'm getting at.

Yes. Our friend here has some legitimate reasons to pull away from mom. I think she also has some very old wounds and unresolved needs that are making her relationship with her mom even more painful. I. That are also probably informing her relationship with her dad. So I wonder what would happen if she pulled back a little and worked on those things, explored these feelings, these memories, and process them some more ideally in therapy, of course, and then watched what happened to her relationship with her parents.

I'm not saying her mom would magically change or start calling her every week or start taking a genuine interest in her life, or never cause her pain ever again. Actually, I think it's gonna be the opposite. Her mom will remain exactly who she is, and our friend here would have to finally come to terms with that.

You know, to grieve this mom, she had to grieve the mom. She never had. To accept that her dad is also flawed and that she can be angry with him sometimes, and that she can love him dearly. And also to stop looking to her mom, to give her what she simply cannot give her consistency, non-judgment approval, solidarity, and to hopefully start giving herself those things.

And also maybe start finding those experiences in other relationships, you know, relationships that she gets to choose and that she gets to shape as a more healed adult. If she did that, I have a feeling that she might be able to have some contact with her mom without nearly as much of the pain and that her special relationship with her father.

I think that'll get stronger too. I'm not saying it's gonna be an amazing relationship with her mom, but it will be a different one. I suspect a better one because she'll know longer be trying to get something from it or work something old out through it. That seems to me is ultimately impossible.

[00:29:54] Jordan Harbinger: Well, wow.

Yeah, Gabe, I think you're right. And that process you're describing is, well, it's kind of devastating. Yeah. It's gonna be hard.

[00:30:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:30:01] Jordan Harbinger: Because it sort of implies giving up in some ways and I don't know, like acknowledging defeat, I guess. Yes,

[00:30:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: totally. But that's a huge part of mourning, you know, coming to terms with that powerlessness.

Whew.

[00:30:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Well that is very intense, but man, it's gonna be so clarifying for her, and ultimately I think it's gonna be empowering. Mm-Hmm. So I hope you get to do that, my friend. Thank you for sharing so much with us and letting us go on about it, and for letting Gabe do the exact opposite of what you asked for in your letter.

I think you could tell that we dig this deep with love and curiosity. We're trying to actually get the whole reason right. If we don't pull the thing out by the roots, we're not solving the problem. And I've got a ton of confidence that you can do this, you can do the work, you can make this happen for you.

The right way and that your relationship with your parents will probably be so much better for it in the long run. So get to talking and unpacking and feeling, and we're sending you a big hug. You got this? You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. If you are involved in a weirdly helpful possible cult, your husband won't stand up to your creepy as hell, Brother-in-Law or unstable entitled Freeloading Sister-in-Law is turning your house into a living nightmare.

Catarina 2.0 over there last week, whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:31:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright, next

[00:31:18] Jordan Harbinger: up.

[00:31:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys. I recently went to Italy for the first time and it was a transformative time for my wife and me. In the future, I would love to be able to effectively communicate in Italian and am setting a goal of learning the language by mid next year.

[00:31:32] Jordan Harbinger: That's pretty cool. I love that. Nothing like going on a trip that's so good. It makes you wanna learn the language and come back. That's how we started with Korean, which led me to Chinese. Right, Gabe?

[00:31:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, I didn't realize that. I thought you were already studying Chinese at the time.

[00:31:42] Jordan Harbinger: No, I, I started with Korean and she's like, yeah, Korean's hard.

Don't feel bad that you're not getting it. It's as hard as Chinese. And I was like, wait, 25 million or four, what was it? 46 million people in South Korea. 24 million disconnected people in North Korea. Mm-Hmm. That you'll never really talk to unless you go back there.

[00:31:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Over a billion people in China. Right.

[00:31:59] Jordan Harbinger: And a 1.3 billion in China and growing exponentially plus diaspora. So I was like, uh, this is as hard as Chinese. I'll be right back. I gotta cancel my class here and enroll in Chinese. No, that's what, that's what started it.

[00:32:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: That makes a lot of sense. That makes sense. I didn't know that. I didn't remember.

Yeah. Anyway, I totally get that. This guy, how jazzed this guy is. This was me with Portugal. I went there, fell in love with it. I'm like, I have to learn Portuguese so I can come back here and do it. Right? Yes. So fun. So he goes on. I've tried some app-based methods and feel they are not always as effective or immersive as is needed.

As people who are proficient in several languages, what in your opinion, is the best way to learn a language the fastest? Any tips, pointers, or advice? Signed, mama Mia, what's your philosophy of leveling up caria when commonly the usual tips just lead to monotony and, uh, I want to be a language makina.

What just happened? That was supposed to be, I don't know what just happened that I think it's Mina, but it was Mina. That's not

[00:32:58] Jordan Harbinger: the part that's confusing. That was like a whole new structure.

[00:33:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I'm trying to branch out over here.

[00:33:02] Jordan Harbinger: Three different languages in there too. English, Spanish, and some terrible Italian.

[00:33:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm glad you picked up on that. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's, no, but that m the kinna was, it's Mina. That was terrible. I think so, yeah.

[00:33:13] Jordan Harbinger: I'm gonna let it slide because that rhyme scheme was truly innovative. If thank you, it was certainly innovative, but let tighten up Gabe, you're on thin ice. Thin semantic ice.

[00:33:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dude, you try keeping the signoffs fresh every week. See if you don't start making up new words. Also, your face right now is so judgmental. The way you blinked when you said yes, innovative, you're like innovative. Mm-Hmm. You look like a librarian who was disappointed that I didn't return the books on time.

[00:33:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's fine. Look, I hear you. You're a real sign off kinna. Thank you,

[00:33:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mina.

[00:33:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I know. We all know. First of all, I love that you had this amazing trip with your wife. I love that. You wanna go back to Italy and have a more, is it idly Gabriel? Are you sure? It's it Itally. Itally traveling and then learning the like.

That's my jam too. Traveling in a country where you can actually communicate with people way more fun, way more rewarding. It's an awesome goal. So here is my super quick crash course in the best way to learn a language. First of all, the language apps, Duolingo, bobble, stuff like that. They're great at what they do.

They're really helpful the way they've gamified the whole experience. It keeps you engaged. Even on days when you really don't feel like practicing. You don't wanna lose that streak. You don't wanna miss those high fives from your friends. I'm all for, it had like a two year streak on Duolingo before something happened and it got all screwed up and now I can't have it back and I like completely abandoned it.

But if you wanna learn a language properly and start speaking quickly, the apps, in my opinion, they're not gonna get you there on their own. I'm actually gonna do a skeptical Sunday about this kind of thing soon. But what I recommend is doing a mix of things first. If you can swing it, get yourself a private tutor once a week, at least once a week, and find a good one.

A teacher is extremely helpful in the early days. You want somebody who can help break down the deep structure, the grammar, how the weird quirks of Italian work help you with your accent. A good coach will also wanna get you speaking as quickly as possible. This is actually where a lot of people learning a new language get stuck.

They make progress on a page or on an app, and they're on like level 400 of Duolingo, and then they can't even order a freaking coffee when they get to Paris because they don't learn how to talk. So I would make that a priority. Maybe hire somebody in Italy to Skype with you. I'm a big fan of Live Lingua.

They teach a bunch of languages, including Italian. If you go to Jordan harbinger.com/live lingua, you could try a one-on-one lesson absolutely free. We'll link to that in the show notes, and of course that helps support the show. Second, get yourself a beginner's Italian textbook or a workbook. Do a couple pages a day in addition to your coaching and flashcards.

And speaking of flashcards, these are a must. These are probably the biggest sort of heavy lifting that you're gonna do with a language. A lot of language learning is just memorizing words for things. You can make them by hand the old fashioned way. That's useful 'cause you're writing, but then you can't really take 'em with you 'cause you got a whole case of them.

At some point, you can use a flashcard app like Anky. I'm a big fan of Anky because it uses spaced repetition, which is super effective. It's called SRS. Also, Anky is a platform where people can create their own vocabulary packs. You can literally download these packs pre-made. They're like a hundred, 200, 500 words or packs of words that are about a specific topic.

And if you study those every day, you're gonna be rocking and rolling in no time. I know thousands of them in Chinese and it's taken years learning them where the alphabet is the same and there's a lot of cognates is gonna be so easy.

[00:36:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Jordan loves talking about that because he loves to bring up that he has to memorize characters and we just get to basically use the same alphabet and it's not nearly as impressive.

It's not just so you know where, why he brought that up. He just wanted to flex,

[00:36:34] Jordan Harbinger: right? It's not nearly as impressive, just so you know. And the other thing I do, I would start consuming a little bit of Italian content every day. That could be a kid show on YouTube, like watch Italian, Sesame Street, or something like that.

They'll teach you the ABCs counting. That stuff's great. I'm sure there are Italian TV shows on Netflix. Turn on the subtitles. Write down five or 10 words per episode that you don't know. Make flashcards out of them. Start practicing the accent. This could be a news program, it could be a podcast. Those are great because you end up learning words that are actually useful.

Plus you're getting smart on what's happening in Italy specifically. And by the way, listening to the news, that'll also give you another point of connection. When you visit your Airbnb host or your hotel concierge or some person sitting next to you on the train, they are gonna be blown away when you turn to them and you're like, so you just had elections, right?

What's going on with all this EU drama? Did you see that show about the Italian smugglers on Netflix? Locals love tourists like that. They're gonna be just beyond impressed and charmed by you, not just because you speak Italian, but because you actually care about their country. And if you do all that.

You're gonna be speaking Italian in no time, I think.

[00:37:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I almost heard you say in the no time. In the no time, man. You know Jordan, the other day I asked you how long you study Chinese every day because like I said, I'm studying Portuguese and I'm trying to stay consistent with it. And I was really surprised when you told me that you only do like 15 minutes a day.

Yep. That has been a game changer for me because I used to think, oh, if I'm not studying Portuguese for an hour, an hour and a half every day, it's not worth it.

[00:37:59] Mike Rowe: Yikes.

[00:37:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: And then days would go by and I would neglect it and then I would feel behind when I met with my tutor and it would be stressful and it stop being fun.

So now I just do 15 or 20 minutes a day and I teach myself, you know, like five new verbs, or I watch a few minutes of a Brazilian show on Netflix, or I look up the lyrics to a song in Portuguese 'cause I love Portuguese music. And I'll, you know, I'll translate the lyrics and then I'll write down a few words and then I'll put it down for the day.

Just doing a tiny bit every day is so much more effective than going ham once or twice a week

[00:38:28] Jordan Harbinger: for sure. It's about consistency and frequency. That is the name of the game. And so if you're trying to say like, look, if you live in Portugal, by all means you should be meeting with a tutor every day for an hour, hour and a half studying your on your own for an hour.

Like if you're treating it like it's your job to learn. Then it's your job to learn. But if this is like a hobby, that's kind of fun. Giving yourself an hour of work, especially repetitive language work every day is a fast track to just burning out immediately. Mm-Hmm. So look, I hope this helps, man. I'm very pumped for you.

Italian is gonna be such a fun language. It's not that hard. You're gonna be rolling around Italy, hitting up those double Rs and wildly gesticulating with your hands like a regular Tom Ripley in no time.

[00:39:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hopefully not like Tom Ripley. He murdered people, murdering people and stealing your Amex checks.

That's right. Let's not do that different guy

[00:39:13] Jordan Harbinger: and let us know how the trip goes. I'm so envious. Have fun. You know what else you should be doing? Consistently patronizing the amazing sponsors who support this show.

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Now, back to feedback Friday. Alright, next up.

[00:41:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: So we're gonna do something a little different for this next one. We recently got two emails that were both asking a similar question, a really great question, so we wanted to take both and see if these letters could speak to each other. So here's the first one, dear Jordan and Gabe.

I'm a 52-year-old mom of six, and for the last 16 years I've worked in the adoption and foster care world as a behavior consultant to kids and families. I'm good at my job and I make okay money for a frontline worker at a social service agency, but there's no opportunity for advancement in my field, and I don't see myself doing this for the rest of my life.

I've gotten excited at various points about more entrepreneurial ideas that could help others, such as home ownership for the unhoused daycare for developmentally delayed children whose parents can't get them into typical daycare or home-like housing for dementia patients. I have so many exciting ideas that could make a real difference in people's lives and a lot of talent, knowledge, and experience, but I haven't been able to narrow things down to one idea that really lights my fire.

I don't want to be one of those people with a solution looking for a problem. I wanna start where there's a genuine need. Where do I start? How do I narrow down my list? Any suggestions? Signed an old hand trying to suss out the demand for my grand plans.

[00:42:47] Jordan Harbinger: I know we have a second letter coming, but I just wanna say what an amazing person this listener is and what noble ideas.

Totally. These potential ventures. Helping the unhoused, serving developmentally delayed children, taking care of dementia patients. I mean, this woman is like doing God's work or insert higher power's work for sure. For some of you that's, uh, Taylor Swift, apparently,

[00:43:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: man, I did not see Taylor Swift as our Lord and Savior becoming a runner on this show, but it makes me laugh every time we say it, and I know a lot of people feel that way.

Anyway, yes, I totally agree with you. This listener is amazing. Mm-Hmm. So here's the second letter. Hi Jordan and Gabe. My husband and I recently adopted a baby girl and while some people wait years to be matched, we were quickly matched in four months.

[00:43:27] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, that is fast. Congratulations.

[00:43:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: So awesome. I love these adoption stories.

So touching. So she goes on. Since I've been on parental leave, I've been dreading returning to my nine to five as a director of nursing care at a long-term care home. I like my job, but it's a 30 minute drive from home and I want to be here more for my daughter while she grows up. Plus, I've had the entrepreneur bug since I was young.

When we were adopting, I made my adoption profile book from scratch digitally, and my social worker told me there's really good money in that if you like doing it. I don't have a tech background and I have a limited understanding of this business, which gives me pause. But I'm very creative and think that my success in adopting had to do with how I presented our profile book.

The birth parents even said that. So I'd like to start a company that helps people create their adoption profile books in a unique way. The other thing that gives me pause is that I was making over a hundred thousand dollars in my job, which is hard to find, and my spouse and I lived very well. So this would be a huge lifestyle change, especially if I'm not successful, what should I do?

Do I risk it and change things up? What if I fail, signed a new mom, torn between detonating this bomb and diving in with a plum,

[00:44:39] Jordan Harbinger: right? So we get versions of this question quite a bit. Should I go all in on my startup? Should I go full-time on my side hustle? How do I decide which idea to pursue? And it's a, frankly, it's a really tough one for us to answer, but like Gabe said, these two letters, they really do bring to life.

One of the most important factors in launching a company, creating a product, turning a hobby into a business, which is what do people actually want? What does the world actually need? Mm-Hmm. The woman in the first letter has all these incredible ideas. She has the talent, she has the experience. She has the passion, which is beautiful.

But like she said, she doesn't wanna be one of those people with a solution looking for a problem.

[00:45:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: And by the way, I love that she's already onto that. I mean, that's already a huge step forward. She's already avoided wasting years doing something that doesn't actually work.

[00:45:22] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. 'cause that is one of the biggest mistakes that entrepreneurs and small business owners make, right?

Mm-Hmm. They think that Mm-Hmm. Finding an idea or an industry that they are excited about, even when they could be really great at, they think that that's enough. But the reality is, no matter how good you are at executing on an idea, if nobody wants the thing that you're offering, it's just never gonna work.

Being skilled, being passionate, that is half the equation. The other half is finding a problem that actually needs fixing, which is the best proxy that I know for assessing demand. And I would argue, and people way smarter than me have talked about this. You usually have to start there first, and then you work your way back to what you're good at, what you care about,

[00:46:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: which is why the second letter is so interesting to me.

[00:46:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, because that listener, she ended up stumbling into a really interesting problem that couples looking to adopt need to create these profile books. And it's a big ask. It's heavy lift and it's an important task. That makes it really valuable. And then she's gotten some data that there's good money in it.

And only then did she go, huh, okay, I'm really good at this. Maybe I can be the one that meets this need for other people.

[00:46:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: And the fact that she is the customer herself, that really helps

[00:46:28] Jordan Harbinger: for sure, because she knows firsthand what her customers truly need. She understands the ins and outs, right? She's not having to take a bunch of survey data to find out if her idea is valid to the MM-Hmm.

The person who would buy it. So my advice to the first listener is you need to go figure out which specific problems and opportunities exist in these industries and in these segments. So obviously look unhoused people, they need homes, but how do they get those homes? Where do the government agencies that provide housing struggle in the first place?

Is your user the unhoused person, or is it the government official or agency trying to help them? Same thing with developmentally disabled children. Where's the gap in their daycare options? What kind of daycare do they actually need? Where do parents of these children have a hard time? Ditto for dementia patients.

Same questions. What's the problem? Where are these people and their families not being served right now? And who are the stakeholders? Right? Because is it the state? Is it an agency? Is it a nursing home that subcontracts? It's not like you really, you don't even know who your customer is. You just know who the end user is.

Those are two different things when it comes to stuff like this. Some of the time. I think it's amazing that you have so many exciting ideas that could make a real difference in people's lives. I applaud you. The world needs you, but you need to look at these things from the other side and figure out what exactly the world needs from you.

Now, the answer might not fall into your lap the way it did with the second listener, so you might have to do some legwork here. I think you're gonna have to do some legwork for sure. My advice there is talk to as many people in those fields as possible. You probably already have a ton of connections.

Suss out where the pain points in their jobs are, where the gaps exist, what they need these days. That might take some time, it might take months, maybe even years, but that is time very well spent because it'll massively increase your chances of success.

[00:48:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: I would also study the adoption in the foster care worlds.

I know you wanna leave that field, but it's a field you know really well. You already have a lot of relationships there. You have a good reputation, and I have to imagine that there are plenty of things in that world that need fixing as well.

[00:48:22] Jordan Harbinger: Now for our second listener, I love that you found this business.

You have a great shot at making it work. You have some skills to learn. There are a lot of unknowns, but this sounds super promising. The best advice I can offer you is start very small. Prove this concept with a small number of clients. Maybe you get the adoption agency you worked with to introduce you to a few people looking to adopt.

Maybe you don't even charge them at first, or you charge them very little and you treat that as a test run. You are gonna learn so much from that first batch of customers. What the whole process looks like from meeting a new customer to learning their story, to translating it into a compelling pitch, to delivering a finished book.

What kind of tech you need, what kind of design skills you need, how long the whole thing takes, what people's budgets are, that's gonna help determine your price point. My suggestion is to treat this like an experiment, a learning opportunity, and if it goes well and you enjoy it, you can turn it into a side hustle while you keep your high paying job.

If that goes well, and it can sustain you on its own and it can take you years to get to that point, only then would I make that leap. But I wouldn't put the cart before the horse and just dive right in. I mean, sure, you could risk it all and succeed massively. There's a chance, but you could also put yourself in a very stressful situation, put a ton of pressure on this idea to succeed when really all you need to do is prove that people want this thing and slowly scale up that way.

If you fail, you won't have turned your whole life upside down or compromised your family by pursuing an idea before you proved it was viable. But also if you do fail, that's part of the entrepreneurial journey too. And all I can tell you there is you gotta make peace with the idea that you might fail.

Every business owner has to embrace that, but the best way to hedge against failure is to move deliberately. Prove the concept, gather as much data as possible, and keep iterating. That'll tell you everything that you need to know. And by the way, it's okay for this to remain a side hustle for you as long as it's earning enough money to justify your time and you're enjoying it.

That's important to remember too. A lot of people rush into this stuff and they end up hating their hobby or their, their passion. That's sad. You might also wanna work up to outsourcing the time intensive non-core parts of the business so that you can manage the company and or just do the tasks that you truly enjoy.

For example, you might be super gifted at capturing people's adoption stories for these books, but that does not mean you need to spend 16 hours in Photoshop every week building the layout for the books. So thank you both for writing in. It is so interesting that you both come from the adoption world. I love your creativity, I love your drive, your entrepreneurial spirits, and I know they're gonna lead you to some great places and good luck.

Alright, next up.

[00:50:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I have a younger brother. I've considered a best friend for most of my life. A few years ago, right before Covid, he moved out of state to complete a medical residency. When Covid hit, he started working long hours and he lost some patients to Covid. Any communication I had with him back then was intense.

He often sounded terrified and got very angry about people not masking or vaccinating. He stopped coming home for holidays, funerals, even my own wedding in 2023. At one point our father was in the ICU and put on a ventilator. My brother wouldn't come home to say goodbye despite the doctor saying that our dad would die.

Fortunately, our dad survived and was dumbfounded that my brother didn't come home.

[00:51:33] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay. That's quite a stance. So obviously this is very distressing to your brother, but he's really taken this covid thing to 11. I mean, missing your parents' potential death because you are afraid of getting covid.

That's a big deal and I'm understating that

[00:51:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: obviously something deeper going on here.

[00:51:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Watch. By the end of this episode, you'll have ruined this poor woman's relationship with her father as well.

[00:51:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: I wasn't ruining that other person's relationship with her father. I was just, you know.

[00:51:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. We know you're just feedback Friday.

Yeah, as usual.

[00:52:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Just, you know, just listening. Just snuffling around. Snuffle

[00:52:04] Jordan Harbinger: is gonna snuffle.

[00:52:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, exactly. So she goes on, my brother finished his residency a year ago, but then left the field entirely. He's now working a virtual job that's outside of his profession so that he doesn't have to leave his house.

Oh man. That is so sad.

[00:52:20] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So he's not even a doctor anymore, I guess.

[00:52:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Apparently not. Yeah. That's a big thing to give up. Wow. Then last year in 2023, he announced that he wouldn't be moving back home due to his family and friends quote, not taking Covid seriously anymore. Even though my family, a lot of his friends and I all agreed to follow whatever precautions he wanted while he visited, but he said that that's not enough.

He cut off his entire group of friends, including ones he's been friends with since grade school.

[00:52:49] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Okay. So he's isolating hard and cutting people off. It's so interesting, Gabe, we're talking about Covid here, but the outlines of the story, they sound a lot like somebody who's in a cult or who's a hard line fundamentalist of some kind.

[00:53:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I mean, he is, right? Yeah. Although beneath all fundamentalism is always something more tender, right? Yeah. This dude

[00:53:07] Jordan Harbinger: is traumatized and it's really gotten to him like this. Clearly, this is a deep wound.

[00:53:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: I haven't seen my brother for four and a half years, and I recently asked to bring our parents to visit him.

He declined saying that he doesn't trust us to follow the masking and social distancing requirements while we're with him. I've tried to include him in Family Zoom gatherings, but he's declined those too because he gets really mad if not everyone is masking

[00:53:30] Jordan Harbinger: what on a Zoom call. He's not even there.

[00:53:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't understand that one at all.

No, that's upset and anxious by proxy for them. Yeah, I don't get it.

[00:53:37] Jordan Harbinger: That's not healthy.

[00:53:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: When I've tried to talk to him about this, he gets very upset and tells me that I'm participating in eugenics and a mass disabling event. Anytime that I go out.

[00:53:47] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, I'm sorry to say this, but your brother is sounding more and more unhinged.

[00:53:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: We've had plenty of times over the years where we've not completely been on the same page, but this is very different. There's no flexibility. He wants full agreement for me that I will mask and not go to public spaces anymore in order to stop the spread. Wait, what? So he's like, don't go anywhere, but also make sure you wear a mask when you don't go anywhere.

What is he talking about?

[00:54:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that makes no sense. First of all, not his business, but second of all, like stopping COVID falls on you. Yeah. Slash is even possible at this point.

[00:54:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh man. I've tried to provide information from what I believe are reputable sources about the current state of things, but for every study I find he finds an opposing one.

I. It seems like all of his decisions are made out of fear and my heart breaks for him. I miss him so much. What would you do in my situation? Signed aghast at the task of reaching my brother behind this mask.

[00:54:44] Jordan Harbinger: Whew. Well, this is a tough one, so as you can obviously tell, we're both finding your brother's position on all this.

It's absurd, right? I mean, if this were 2020 or 2021, I guess I get it. Covid was scary back then. We didn't know a lot about it. We were doing our best. There was a lot of conflicting information, but now this position is totally impractical. It's misguided, it's militant, and I feel it's pretty presumptuous.

To be telling you guys how you need to be living your lives and not just around him. Given where we are in the pandemic, it just, it doesn't make any sense. And look, if your brother, if this guy was like severely immunocompromised, if your dad were immunocompromised, that is a different story. I have a couple friends, they got serious health stuff.

They still wear masks to the grocery store and to parties and stuff. They're careful about what they do and where they go because if they get covid again, it could theoretically kill them much more than it could hurt any one of us. And fine, I get it. But they're still going to Ralph's, they still go to the party.

They're just not demanding that the entire world change for them. They're just taking care of themselves.

[00:55:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. That is not what her brother is doing, he's doing No, he's way the other direction.

[00:55:47] Jordan Harbinger: No, what he's doing is blaming you guys for not taking covid seriously, which is not true. You guys have offered to take all the precautions that he wants, and he's blaming you for participating in eugenics and creating, what did he say?

A mass disabling event for catching a movie. What is that actually?

[00:56:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: What does that mean?

[00:56:04] Jordan Harbinger: Here's the thing. I bet if you Google those in quotes, you find some kooky ass conspiracy theory, and that's where this guy's getting all of his information. Mm. Because Eugenics has Nazi connotations. Right. The latest iteration anyway, and mass disabling event sounds like something that you would hear on Infowars or something.

[00:56:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: So actually it's not super conspiratorial. Apparently the Covid pandemic has been called a mass disabling event since early on. I see. Because it's a once in a generational public health crisis that could shape millions of people's lives forever. Okay. At least with this phrase. He's not super conspiratorial, but it is very extra.

[00:56:40] Jordan Harbinger: Tell me about the participating in Eugenics thing. Like what happens here? That

[00:56:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: one's different. Yeah. They're overtones of all sorts of stuff. What is the story that he is telling that they are doing this?

[00:56:49] Jordan Harbinger: Well, participating in eugenics means you're sort of willingly doing something that is killing off other folks, which Right.

Eugenics, for those who don't know. This is a pseudoscience where, again, in the latest iterations, bad actors use it to say, oh, well, we wanna breed proper humans. That sounds very Nazi, right? So they're, we're gonna kill disabled people and we're gonna kill people who are homosexuals and Jews and, and Roma.

That's what the Nazis were doing. That was a eugenics program. They wanted to breed out people they thought were inferior or weak. That's what this guy is saying,

[00:57:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: but what he's saying is that if you don't wear a mask and you go get covid or you spread covid, then you are trying to kill off certain vulnerable people and so you are essentially doing eugenics by going to the store.

I see. That's what he's saying, right? Yeah. Okay. That's

[00:57:38] Jordan Harbinger: just ridiculous though because it's absurd. It's not your genetics that necessarily decide if you are going to die from covid. There's a zillion comorbidities,

[00:57:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: but also they're not intentionally doing that.

[00:57:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you're right. Anyway, this is, it's stupid what we're trying to do right now, you Gabriel, me and this gal here who wrote in.

We are trying to logic somebody who has come to a decision completely emotionally. Mm. Right? We are trying to logic somebody out of a position that they did not come to logically. Does that make sense?

[00:58:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Although he thinks he's being very logical, which is the scary part.

[00:58:11] Jordan Harbinger: That's why she can come up with a, a study and he will just look wherever he can to find a study of whatever level of repute, even if it comes from some YouTuber, right?

That contradicts it because he, he has, he has motivated reasoning and cognitive bias, and he's completely blind to it. So look, anyway. Even if he were right about some of this, the Covid cat's outta the bag, man, we all got it slash we'll get it. Some people get it worse than others. Very few people die from it now.

It is just a reality. And you all know I am not anti-science. I'm not anti mask. I am not anti, let's be safe when there's a pandemic. I was happy to mask up and keep my distance when that seemed like the answer. I ripped that mask off as soon as we didn't really need it anymore. That's not the answer anymore.

It's not necessary. It's not effective, it's not practical. And again, I'm sorry to say this, but your brother, he sounds like a Looney tune and the problem is he is very entrenched in his position. Based on what you've shared. I'm not sure how you're supposed to get through to him. Well, he doesn't want anyone to get through.

No, that's the problem. There might have been a window to have a rational conversation with him while his position was still solidifying. Mm-hmm. While the jello was still liquid in the refrigerator is when you would've gotten to him about this. But now, I don't know, man, the things you're doing to get through to him, offering to play by his rules still not good enough for him.

He just keeps moving the goalposts,

[00:59:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: which is infuriating because it's like, do you want us to mask and distance or not? You can't tell us to do that. And then we say, sure, we're we promise to do that. No problem. And then you turn around and say, no, I don't trust you to do it. Right. Which one is it?

[00:59:36] Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's literally insane.

And that's what I mean by moving the goalposts. Like you agree to his kooky demands and then he's like, well, actually I don't trust you to do it. What could make you change your mind on this? Nothing. He's an OC cult. It's not science. It's insanity. You're sharing data with him from reputable sources, trying to engage with him rationally.

You think a doctor would respond well to that, but then as a doctor, he's well equipped to just push back. But his sources are dubious if he's reading the right sources. Covid is not that bad, and then you're trying to talk to him about this and see if there's any flexibility. I mean, these are all things we'd recommend.

So I'm a little stumped here, Gabe. I worry that this guy is too far gone, right? And that she and her family now just kind of have to accept that he's gone off the deep end and they cannot have a normal relationship with this guy.

[01:00:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh man, this is really sad. He's ultimately depriving himself of a normal, full life, and he's missing all of these wonderful moments with his family.

Like, I'm super sad about this.

[01:00:26] Jordan Harbinger: It's super tragic,

[01:00:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: but like we touched on, I'm also trying to figure out how in the world this guy got here. Obviously this all goes back to his time in his residency, which sounds like an extremely difficult chapter as it was for so many healthcare workers. He was probably working crazy hours, not sleeping, felt outta control.

He lost patience. He had a front row seat to how bad Covid was in the early days. It really does sound like he was legitimately traumatized by that period. I'm still reeling a little bit from the fact that he quit being a doctor this prestigious career that he worked so hard for. Now he's working a remote job at a drop shipping company or something, so he doesn't have to leave the house.

It, it must have been really bad for him to do a 180 like that,

[01:01:07] Jordan Harbinger: but how many other doctors did this? Very few. I'd imagine. Yeah. There's something about the way he handled it that led him to this place.

[01:01:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. So we probably have to rewind the tape even more. You know? What kind of guy was he before the pandemic, before medical school?

How did he handle stress and adversity leading up to that point? Were there any signs of fragility before all of this?

[01:01:25] Jordan Harbinger: Did he hold other hard line views in other areas before all this?

[01:01:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Another good question because two different people with different life experiences, different personalities, different values, they can go through the same adverse experience and they can come out completely differently.

[01:01:39] Jordan Harbinger: So there must have been something about her brother that made him so vulnerable to the pandemic

[01:01:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: or the pandemic activated a part of him that was dormant. Yes. And then when he began to isolate, you can just imagine. I mean, very few close friends, maybe no close friends 'cause he's cut everybody off.

[01:01:53] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-Hmm.

[01:01:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: No family time, I'm assuming no therapist or you know, trusted guide and no one to help him process his feelings. No one to keep him grounded. Open to other data or points of view, it's a disaster.

[01:02:04] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. It's almost like he got radicalized. He's self radicalized. Right? And then he created the conditions for that worldview to just not be challenged in any way.

[01:02:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think our friend here is, right, his decisions are made out of fear. This guy is freaked out. But what is underneath that fear? What is the fear protecting? I don't know. He's gotta have some tender spots and some, some wounds, some predisposition, for sure. So if you have any hope of helping your brother work through this, I think it's gonna be by helping him address that stuff, or at least start by acknowledging it.

[01:02:34] Jordan Harbinger: But then we're back to the main problem again. This guy just does not want to,

[01:02:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: right? And if he doesn't want to, then what are you gonna do? But if you haven't tried this yet, you could ask him, Hey, how are you feeling, bud? How are you doing? What's on your mind? You know? How's life treating you? Assuming he can stomach a FaceTime with you, I'm assuming he.

Mm-Hmm. I'm assuming he won't ask you to mask up if you're on the phone alone with him, but who knows? See if he'll talk to you a little bit. I wouldn't even mention Covid. I would just stay focused on him and if he does open up to you. Then, yeah, you can validate what he's feeling. You can help him acknowledge his stress, his fear, his passion for Covid.

You might need to start by making him feel understood and cared for without trying to immediately change his mind.

[01:03:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I'm with you. And that could take a while, but given the facts here, I'm just not sure how much hope she can have for him changing. Right. So this letter, like so many letters we receive, I think it's really about mourning.

Your brother didn't die, of course, but in a way a part of him did. The brother you had before did. And I genuinely hope he comes out of this and reengages with you guys. I really do. But he might not. And so your story to me, it's really about coming to terms with the sadness and the frustration. The general WTF of having a brother who cannot relate to you guys, who is vigorously defending his right to protect his fear over working through whatever's created that fear and of bearing the grief of missing him as much as you do, which is just awful.

I'm so sorry. It's happening. I mean, I wish you could convince the guy to go see a therapist. That's what I wish

[01:04:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was about to say. If you could encourage him to see a therapist or a psychiatrist, obviously he desperately needs to talk to somebody and process some of this stuff. I think most importantly, the time at the hospital, the trauma he experienced there.

But the other reason is I hear some pretty extreme anxiety in your brother's story. There are also shades of paranoia in it too. And also a kind of, it's interesting, Jordan, I hear like a, like a little bit of grandiosity, maybe not a little bit, kind of a lot. Like I'm gonna be the one to stop covid. I'm the one who knows more than everybody else.

You know, everybody needs to listen to me. I do worry that there might be something psychiatric going on here.

[01:04:34] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. This might be more than a doctor being super conservative. He could have, I mean, it sounds like maybe an anxiety disorder. He could have OCD, he could be bipolar. Mania and grandiosity can be symptoms of that.

There might even be something schizoid going on here, although the chances are probably low. But I, yeah, I would love for him to see someone I. Look this grief, it's yours to work through. You're stepping into the reality of my brother's traumatized and frightened. He's choosing to isolate and I have to make peace with that.

Just that idea might be a big step forward for you, but my heart breaks for you and your parents, man, especially your parents, your poor dad, to know that his son wouldn't come home when he was about to die. I'm just so sorry that you're going through it. I'm mostly sorry for your brother who's missing life, and I hope he returns to that one day, but as we always seem to come back to here on the show, that's up to him.

Hope y'all enjoyed that. I wanna thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out the episodes with Dr. Fauci and our Skeptical Sunday on participation trophies. If you haven't heard those yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust, and I am teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself.

Our six minute networking course is a hundred percent free. It is not gross. It is not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. These drills, they take just a few minutes per day. I really wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. You gotta dig that well before you get thirsty, folks, build those relationships before you need them.

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You are about to hear a preview trailer of our interview with Mike Rowe, host of Discoveries, dirty Jobs, and returning the favor on why the advice follow your passion is complete. bs

[01:07:33] Mike Rowe: Follow Your passion as a bromide is precisely what 98% of the people do who audition for American Idol. And they're lined up thousands of people who have been told.

If you believe something deeply enough, and if you want something bad enough, and if you truly embrace the essence of persistence and your passion, if you let your passion lead, you stick with it. Well, following your passion is terrific advice if the passion is taking you to a place where opportunity and your own set of skills will be able to coexist.

Passion is something that all of the dirty jobbers that I met possessed in spades. They just weren't doing anything that looked aspirational, so it was confusing. So a guy in a plaid shirt sipping a cappuccino, that doesn't make sense. Well, guess what? Neither does a septic tank cleaner worth a million dollars.

[01:08:27] Jordan Harbinger: That guy had a million dollar

[01:08:28] Mike Rowe: business. I actually counted 'em up once. I could be wrong by a couple, but I put over 40 people that we featured on Dirty Jobs as multimillionaires. Passion isn't the enemy. It's just not the thing you want pulling the train. But look, I don't say don't follow your passion. I say never follow your passion, but always bring it with you.

[01:08:54] Jordan Harbinger: For more with Mike Rowe, including a behind the scenes look at some of his shows and why we shouldn't view a blue collar career pursuit as a cautionary tale. Check out episode 2 64 right here on the Jordan Harbinger Show.