938: The Worst Part of Waking up Is Sis Is in a Cult | Feedback Friday

938: The Worst Part of Waking up Is Sis Is in a Cult | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer — the prayer hands emoji to my crazy-face emoji, the omm to my whaa, Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:00:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: There has never been a more accurate roast at the top of the episode. I love it.

[00:00:19] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. On The Jordan Harbinger Show — we strive for accuracy — we also decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

[00:00:35] During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from former cult members, arms dealers, astronauts, music moguls, Russian chess grandmasters. This week we had legendary director Oliver Stone on nothing to do with movies whatsoever, nuclear power, why it's not as scary as people think and how it's potentially the solution that we need right now, at least until we get — is it fusion or fission? It's fusion, right? We have fission, but either way it doesn't exist yet. And we'll talk about what does exist and why we need more of it.

[00:01:03] On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and put up with Gabe while he dabbles in obscure vocabulary in Victorian euphemisms for various mental afflictions.

[00:01:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:12] Jordan Harbinger: Although, because this is our last Feedback Friday of the year, we'll be doing something a little different today. One banger of a story as per usual, and then we'll take a look back at this wild year in letters and what we learned doing the show in 2023.

[00:01:26] Gabe, dare we dooz?

[00:01:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Let's dooz it up.

[00:01:28] Jordan Harbinger: What's the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:01:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My younger sister, who's 24, has been working for a cafe for two or three years now, and this cafe has slowly taken over her life. She met her boyfriend there. All of her friends are from the cafe, and she spends holidays, birthdays, and all her spare time with them. I always hated that and thought it was weird, especially since she stopped talking with me completely to hang out with her coworkers.

[00:01:54] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah, that is a bit worrisome. Not necessarily that she fell in hard with these friends. That happens, especially when you're in your early 20s, but that she stopped talking to you completely is always a little bit of a red flag. But I know this situation evolves. So carry on, Gabe.

[00:02:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Now the cafe owner is starting a commune. His word not mine. He has his own family and kids bought two acres of land and will be charging each person in the group, over 10 people, $500 a month to live there. Some of these employees already live with the boss. It's very weird.

[00:02:27] Jordan Harbinger: That is definitely weird. I mean, if your roommates with your boss or your colleague from work and it's all in the up and up and there's a real friendship there, maybe I can imagine it being okay. But at a minimum it sounds like there are some very fuzzy boundaries at this cafe. It's odd.

[00:02:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. You don't want to be bunking with your boss who also signs your paychecks, right?

[00:02:46] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:02:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's not usually not a good idea. Okay. Letter goes on.

[00:02:49] This boss pays my sister $23 an hour, which isn't a lot since she's college educated and we're in California. She makes tips, but she gets no retirement, health insurance, dental, or PTO because her boss, quote-unquote, "can't afford it," but he can afford to buy land and charge her rent for it. I feel like this is almost a weird form of indentured servitude to trap them. At the very least, he's not honest about what he can pay them. Her boyfriend is also not good. Her personality has changed a lot.

[00:03:20] Jordan Harbinger: And just to clarify, because I know there's a lot going on here, her boyfriend is not the owner, right?

[00:03:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Two different people. Yes.

[00:03:26] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So she works for this maybe kind of shady boss at this cafe separately. She met her boyfriend there and the boyfriend isn't a good influence either, but we don't really know why.

[00:03:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. So she goes on, we grew up in a strict and admittedly horrible Nazarene church. I've since left the church too, and now she's done a full 180 and turned to extreme cynicism and nihilism saying that all people are inherently selfish and cruel and want what's best for themselves.

[00:03:51] Huh, interesting. So exactly like this boss who's paying her peanuts.

[00:03:56] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a little ironic.

[00:03:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Confusing.

[00:03:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:03:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is. Maybe that's how he justifies what he is doing. Like, "Everyone's selfish and cruel and wants what's best for themselves. So might as well give in and cut me a check for 500 bucks a month." I'm guessing.

[00:04:08] Jordan Harbinger: I'm guessing the rest of that narrative that the sister's not saying out loud is that while the rest of the world is selfish now for themselves, the group that she's in is different, and that's part of the reason they all need to live together. Because they're the only people who can protect each other from this negative influence outside this selfish world.

[00:04:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is a bit culty, isn't it?

[00:04:28] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:04:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. It sounds like there might be some religious trauma going on here too. They both left what sounds like a difficult church, but then her sister joins another questionable organization.

[00:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Look, some people might go, "Wow, you're making a lot of assumptions there, Jordan," but there's reasons for that and maybe after that church, she's looking for a supportive community and she feels that she found it in these people.

[00:04:47] By the way, jumping from one restrictive religion or group to another, very common. My, again, kind of armchair theory here is that when you grow up with a restrictive or otherwise kind of questionable structure and then you shed it, you end up subconsciously looking for that same structure until you find it or you do the work to realize that it's toxic or that you don't actually need it.

[00:05:10] It's like growing up with an abusive parent. You see those guys that grow up with an abusive father or mother and they pick these toxic partners. They're essentially just executing that same pattern that they grew up with. So one path is basically a default slash path of least resistance, and the other path requires a lot of introspection and therapy.

[00:05:26] So it's pretty easy for people to fall into this trap, right? Path of least resistance is, "Eh, I'm just going to find another structure that replicates this strict church upbringing that I had. Oh, here, look, here's a cult that looks friendly and fun. I'll just join that." Right? It's subconscious. And then the other path is, "Huh, this looks restrictive. Just like the church I left, maybe I should do a decade of therapy so I can recognize and break these patterns." It's just really clear which one is easier to fall into by default.

[00:05:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, whatever happened to her in her life, whether it had to do with this church or her family, or whatever, it has clearly made her more susceptible to people like this. So let's see where the letter goes.

[00:06:00] But then she wants to have kids within this community and have them homeschooled and raised communally by all the cafe workers. They're all just very close. Her chosen family, as she puts it. I called her to voice my concerns and she cried. But 30 minutes later, she called me back saying, "You don't have to believe me, but I am happy. This has always been my dream, and it's okay to be influenced by others to live a different life." Of course, it is okay, but she's so much sadder now. Thankfully. I recently saw my sister and her boyfriend at Thanksgiving, but I kind of became the butt of the joke with my family for thinking that this is such a big deal. Since she can leave freely and hang out with us, she must be fine, and she just wants to live this alternative lifestyle. Sure, I'm thankful that this is not a traditional cult, but there's no doubt that she's going through huge personality shifts and being exploited work-wise.

[00:06:53] Jordan Harbinger: Right. So I'm having a similar reaction so far. This doesn't necessarily scream textbook cult. The fact that she can leave and hang out with you, that's obviously encouraging, but then she did distance herself from you. She's really buying into this nihilistic yet communitarian philosophy. So I don't know. It might just be culty without actually being a cult.

[00:07:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: What she's describing is a lot of communes.

[00:07:14] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, it's basically a kibbutz, right?

[00:07:15] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:07:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: People live together. They help raise one another's kids. They cook meals together, whatever. That doesn't mean it's automatically coercive or nefarious, but what they teach there and how it impacts her relationships with other people outside of the commune, that's where it gets a little dicey.

[00:07:30] So she goes on, my parents say You just have to let people make mistakes, but this is like watching someone waste their life, and I feel like it's cruel to stand by idly and watch. This is all just very bizarre and I can't stop crying about it. If I report this to the police, are there legal grounds to stop him from doing this to these people? Signed, Finding It Odd that My Sister has Joined the Squad with This Possible Father Yad.

[00:07:56] Jordan Harbinger: Father Yad? I don't know that reference, Gabe.

[00:07:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Have you ever heard of The Source Family?

[00:07:59] Jordan Harbinger: It sounds like a hip-hop magazine that was a cult in LA, right?

[00:08:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this guy founded this kind of new agey mystical cult slash commune where he was the spiritual father to a bunch of young people, and they all lived together. I think it was in a mansion in the Hollywood Hills. It was actually, I think it was near your old apartment, and he renamed himself Father Yad. But before that, he started a restaurant called The Source on Sunset Strip. I think it was one of the first vegetarian restaurants, maybe in the whole country. It was apparently insanely successful, and like celebrities used to go there. It was a big thing. And then, he used the revenue from the restaurant to fund the cult.

[00:08:34] Jordan Harbinger: Honestly, that sounds like a restaurant you would go to.

[00:08:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, totally. Actually, I would.

[00:08:40] Jordan Harbinger: Like right after you hit up your sound bath or something like that.

[00:08:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my god, dude, you're really accurate. Again, I did a sound bath when I was in Maui In my defense, I didn't sign up for it. They just inflicted on us after the yoga class. I'm going to stop talking. You're right. I would, yeah—

[00:08:55] Jordan Harbinger: After goat yoga, they just did it after goat yoga. It's not like I signed up for it, dude.

[00:08:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: They just did it. I didn't ask for it, bro. It just busted out the meditation bolt.

[00:09:01] Jordan Harbinger: Non-consensual sound bath.

[00:09:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: But you are right. I would probably be that guy inadvertently funding a spiritual cult because you know the quinoa is so good.

[00:09:12] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah, exactly. Turning a blind eye to the exploitation and polygamy and human trafficking. Because the hummus and alfalfa sprouts are just so fresh. He grows them in his own garden, Jordan.

[00:09:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Do you know how hard it was to be vegan in the 1960s? I mean, limited options you got to take what you can get.

[00:09:27] Jordan Harbinger: All right, so now the sign off makes sense. So this isn't the first cult to start off as a cafe or other food service establishment.

[00:09:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: It just made me think of that story. I don't know why. Although this cult sounds way less fun than The Source Family.

[00:09:39] Jordan Harbinger: So far. Yeah. Honestly, this doesn't sound fun at all.

[00:09:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, it doesn't.

[00:09:43] Jordan Harbinger: I'm also picturing a plot of barren land he bought in Central California with no running water and a bunch of 20-somethings being like, "Yeah, let's play guitar and braid each other's hair after we're done serving nine dollars chagaccinos all day without really thinking through what that actually means.

[00:09:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, is this just a real estate play for this guy? Like is he really starting a commune or is he just luring 13 gullible 20-somethings to help him pay the mortgage on a piece of land that he bought under the guise of starting a utopian coffee kibbutz?

[00:10:13] Jordan Harbinger: That is definitely a possibility, although they are talking about community parenting and homeschooling. So it does sound like there's a real vision here.

[00:10:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: A real vision. Yeah.

[00:10:22] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:10:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: But who knows? That could also just be a bunch of disaffected 20-somethings fantasizing about what this could be like, you know?

[00:10:29] Jordan Harbinger: Right. That's true. We don't know if the boss is like, "Look, we can all parent each other's kids." Or if he's like, "You should all live here and pay rent." And then they're like, "Yeah, and we can braid each other's hair and play guitar and parent each other's kids." And he's like, "Yeah, sure. Whatever you want to do in your own time."

[00:10:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sure. Whatever you want, buddy. Just make sure you drop off the check on the first of the month.

[00:10:44] Jordan Harbinger: Either way, even if this commune is super boring and doesn't create some sort of cashew cream tahini that would honeypot Gabe into an OSHA style sex cult, this is still concerning. It must be awful to see your sister change so dramatically with a dodgy group of people and for the worse from the sound of it. I'm really sorry that you're just sort of watching this happen in slow motion.

[00:11:05] So as you can tell, I'm of two minds here. On one hand, I totally share your concern about your sister. She's either being exploited by her boss or just settling for what sounds like a crappy job. She's becoming nihilistic and hopeless. Her boyfriend is bad news. We still don't know why, maybe it doesn't matter, and she might be signing up for an alternative lifestyle that reinforces those beliefs, possibly raising future kids in it as well.

[00:11:30] On the other hand, it doesn't sound like she's being explicitly controlled. She's choosing to move to this commune. I mean, to the extent that she can choose, I understand she's being heavily influenced and that's where this gets ambiguous. But she can leave when she wants and this boss isn't actually stealing her money, at least not directly. He might be a crappy boss who pays for peanuts, but again, she is choosing to work for this guy.

[00:11:55] Also, doesn't the no benefits in crappy pay describe like 95 percent of restaurants? Not that, that excuses it. I do think we should, don't even get me started on tip deflation, but it does make it less weird. It's not like she's working as a mechanical engineer and they're like, "Wow, she pays the minimum wage and you have to live in the place." I mean, it's a little less odd with the whole restaurant thing, so maybe it's not a cult, but it's definitely not a community that I would be thrilled to see my sibling join either.

[00:12:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: And the fact that your parents are being so chill about this, like you got to let people make their own mistakes. I mean, they're not entirely wrong. She is 24 years old and it's not like you're watching her run off and join NXIVM or something.

[00:12:33] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: But that must make this even more frustrating and even more lonely for you because you are the only one who seems to see what is happening here.

[00:12:40] Jordan Harbinger: Right. You can maybe sort of imagine their parents waking up in a decade wondering why they can't see their grandkids or visit their commune and going, "Oh yeah, maybe we were wrong to be so lax about this when we potentially had the chance to do something."

[00:12:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: So that laissez-faire attitude might also explain why her sister was drawn to these people. Because if their parents are very hands off in general, maybe to the point of indifference, maybe even neglect sometimes that might've made her sister feel like no one was really looking out for her. Nobody took an interest in her life. And then she starts working at this cafe and she meets these people she really clicks with.

[00:13:15] And by the way, I wouldn't be surprised if these people also felt a little lost, a little disconnected. That can be very powerful for somebody who longs for a sense of connection, a sense of safety. It's very seductive.

[00:13:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Interesting theory. Well, that coupled with the church backstory and her willingness to put up with a stingy slash exploitative boss, that all fits, doesn't it? But here's the thing, and it's a tough pill to swallow your sister's in the driver's seat. Here she is an adult — an adult with some unresolved feelings and questionable judgment, but in an adult nonetheless, she's making her own choices.

[00:13:47] You might have to stand by and watch her get involved with these people and come to her own conclusions in her own time. But that doesn't mean you can't stay connected to her. Keep an eye on her. Make sure she knows she can always come to you if things get tough. It's important not to close that door.

[00:14:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. You want that door open if things ever take a turn for the worse. You want to be the person she calls if her boss, you know, starts taking colloidal silver and ranting about the end times or whatever.

[00:14:14] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my god. Yeah, colloidal silver. I remember. Wasn't that one of the things from COVID? Yeah, it was like Alex Jones was selling this. It's like 100 percent—

[00:14:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: For sure.

[00:14:22] Jordan Harbinger: —chance kills COVID. "You won't get COVID if you buy my colloidal silver." Why do I know that?

[00:14:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's just one of those go-to culty products. By the way, side note, sorry to get derailed, but have you seen the documentary on HBO? I think it's called The Cult of Mother God.

[00:14:35] Jordan Harbinger: No, I have not.

[00:14:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my God. All right. You need to go watch this. We need to talk about it on the show. It's so bizarre. I won't go into too much detail if you guys have seen it. You know, it's insane. There was this like cult, but cult is kind of overstating. It's just a bunch of people who wanted to hang out with one another and they followed this woman who claimed that she was essentially God, and they would take colloidal silver and they would sell colloidal silver to their followers, and that's how they made money, textbook cult product marketing stuff. But the crazy thing is colloidal silver. I did a quick Google. I mean, there's research that says it's not just not essential. It's dangerous, and if you take it, it turns you blue.

[00:15:12] Jordan Harbinger: That's the blue thing. Right, I have seen that before with people.

[00:15:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. This woman who was all kinds of messed up. I can't even begin to talk about how crazy this woman was, but she was taking colloidal silver every day and she literally turned blue and the followers were just like, they didn't even stop to be like, "Why is our cult leader dying, wasting away and turning blue?" They were just like, "Yeah, that's how you take care of yourself. You got to take the colloidal silver." Anyway—

[00:15:37] Jordan Harbinger: If she turns blue, you're in trouble.

[00:15:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's it. Yeah.

[00:15:39] Jordan Harbinger: And if this guy starts boiling and selling his own sweat as an essential oil run in the other direction.

[00:15:47] And the way to support your sister is to make it safe for her to talk to you starting now, and that'll require you to really try to understand what's drawing her to these folks, why this boss and this boyfriend are so compelling to her, why this commune is the answer to her questions, why she isn't interested in a job that treats her better and pays better, et cetera.

[00:16:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, what will this commune actually be like? I'm wondering if she's really thought that through. I'm talking like details. Will she have a roof over her head? Will there be running water on the property? Is there Internet? Is it safe? I would really get a handle on what's in store for her, for her benefit and also for yours.

[00:16:24] Jordan Harbinger: Now your sister might not want to engage deeply with you on that, but you got to try. I would set your judgments aside as much as possible and listen to her. Although you obviously have your opinions and I get it, but you want her to feel secure opening up to you.

[00:16:37] And I would obviously do this before she moves there, and if she shares anything with you that's truly dangerous or she expresses some concerns about the move, then you might have more license to say, "You know, sis, I'm really worried about X, Y, Z you are sharing. I don't want to tell you how to live your life, but I can't in good conscience let you move to this commune without telling you what this sounds like to somebody who really loves you. I see you becoming more cynical, more nihilistic, and I can understand why, but I worry about you seeing the world that way. There are so many other positive ways to view the world and that could help you build the life you want in other ways. So are you sure this is the right move? Are you positive these are the influences you want to follow? Have you really thought this through? Can you be friends with these people without moving onto a piece of land with them?"

[00:17:29] Again, she might or might not listen, but at least you'll know that you tried.

[00:17:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: But look, if she moves anyway, I would do everything possible to stay close with your sister. Make sure you can reach her on her cell phone. Make sure you have the address of the commune. Check in on her a lot, and if things ever get dangerous again, then intervene more strongly. But I do think Jordan is right. There's a world where you watch your sister go down this road. It's not what you would do, and that is really, really difficult. At which point this story becomes about you learning to accept your sister's questionable choices and work through the sadness and the anxiety that you feel in your own way.

[00:18:05] I just hope that she doesn't become like that sister from that letter we took a few months back, Jordan, you remember who the one who moved to Vermont and had six kids and cut off her family so that they couldn't, quote-unquote, "influence her anymore."

[00:18:16] Jordan Harbinger: I knew this sounded familiar and I'm getting strong procreative Vermont compound vibes from this commune.

[00:18:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, if all else fails, you know, you can always send her a Venmo for 15 cents saying, "I'm here to save you. Just reach out."

[00:18:31] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, the old cult deprogramming via Venmo gambit. If you have no idea what we're talking about, by the way, that was episode 917 and we'll link to that in the show notes.

[00:18:40] All right, I know you wanted some legal options to try and stop this guy. So we reached out to defense attorney and friend of the show, Corbin Payne.

[00:18:49] And the first thing Corbin wanted us to know is that California has some notoriously complex labor laws. He couldn't opine on whether this cafe owner has violated the law, but he did say that it sounds like this guy's been a bit of a d-bag so he wouldn't put it past him.

[00:19:04] I'm also fuzzy on that too though because he's not providing his employees retirement health insurance, dental, PTO, which sucks. But also he might not legally be required to do that here in California. I think if you're a part-time worker, employers can't be required to provide certain benefits, and I believe the state of California doesn't actually require businesses to provide healthcare at all. And like I said, that describes a heck of a lot of cafes.

[00:19:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. This guy might be stingy, but that doesn't mean he is a criminal.

[00:19:33] Jordan Harbinger: That said, Corbin told us that you can contact the California Department of Labor and make a report. We're going to link to a brochure about reporting workplace violations in the show notes for you. So you should definitely check that out.

[00:19:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: But Corbin pointed out that you're going to hit an obstacle there, which is, even if this boss has broken the law, it will be difficult to prove that without any cooperation from the employees. Based on how tight they are, it sounds like they would probably circle the wagons and protect him.

[00:19:58] Also, Corbin told us that most state investigative agencies are so overwhelmed right now that unless somebody is like bleeding, literally, it's usually a low priority. So in his experience, they're going to be less than enthused about taking on something this complicated where the victims are pretty invested in protecting their boss slash possible exploiter.

[00:20:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that makes sense. But Corbin did pitch a creative option, which is, you might want to check the city planning or zoning committee in the area where he's starting his little commune, 10 people living on a two acre plot. It sounds like a lot to me, especially if we're talking about a renting situation. Corbin said he'd be willing to bet that there's some rule in place saying that you have to get a permit or something once you have over a certain number of tenants, and there's probably some minimum standard of living that the landlord has to provide to their tenants.

[00:20:48] I'm going to go out in a limb here and say, there's no way this jabroni cafe owner has all the appropriate permits and facilities in place.

[00:20:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, definitely not. I don't know about you. I am picturing a bunch of used tents from REI and paper plates and blow up mattresses that he ordered on Amazon at the last minute.

[00:21:07] Jordan Harbinger: I think you're responsible for your own furniture that goes in the tent. Uh, there's a goodwill down the road. They have some lawn chairs out front. I mean, it really could be that. Because the more I think about this, the more it's like this is what developers do. They build neighborhoods where people go and rent and live, or they build a building that has apartments in it. This is a dude who owns a cafe and pays minimum wage and doesn't even provide benefits. Did he really jump through all the right hoops to do this properly?

[00:21:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. Doubtful.

[00:21:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Freaking porta-potties for the first 18 months could be the deal at this community. And God knows what his plan is for dealing with the sewage created by 10-plus people. I mean, that could be some rough living.

[00:21:46] Now, you might run into the same roadblock here. In Corbin's experience, municipal employees are unlikely to want to kick a hornet's nest either, so they just might not do anything if you call them. But Corbin told us an interesting story, which when he was growing up, I think this is probably in Tennessee, there was some weird communal living situation not far from his house.

[00:22:06] At first, the neighbors had a live and let live mentality as one does typically here in the United States. But then the commune started burning trash and their septic tank failed. And you can imagine that smell prompted an outcry from the neighborhood and eventually the city took quick action.

[00:22:21] So even if the local government doesn't do anything about this commune, the neighbors might be interested to know that 10-plus possible cultists with no permit or sewage treatment plan are moving in next door. And that might get the city's attention. Kind of a dark Jordan move right there. I'm all for it. I mean, you could always visit your sister and flush a couple cherry bombs down the toilet if that doesn't do the trick. That's probably illegal.

[00:22:46] So if you don't get anywhere with your sister, I would give those options a try. But ultimately, if your sister wants to move there, you might not be able to stop her. Your best bet is to keep talking to her, keep supporting her from afar and make sure she's not about to enter a truly dangerous situation emotionally, financially, logistically.

[00:23:04] Again, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your sister's actually really lucky to have you looking out for her, even if she doesn't seem to want your help. I hope you can get through to her or at least stay close. Crossing my fingers, this isn't a Father Yad situation. Just a bunch of cynical neo hippies who want to live out some rustic communal living fantasy.

[00:23:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Seriously. With any luck, this fantasy is going to fall apart pretty quickly.

[00:23:25] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: And then she can hopefully go work for Starbucks where I hear they offer healthcare and pay for your bachelor's degree and you know, don't make you give your boss neck rubs between the chagaccinos.

[00:23:36] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, that's why I quit Starbucks. I need a neck rub every now and again.

[00:23:39] Uh, wouldn't that be nice to actually collect the money you earn and not fork it over to a slumlord whose big message is, "People are inherently selfish and cruel and want what's best for themselves"? Give them strawberry creme frappuccinos any day over that, over a failed septic tank.

[00:23:54] Sending you and your sister a big hug and wishing you both the best.

[00:23:59] You know who won't try to manipulate you into indentured servitude, Gabriel? The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:24:09] This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Our holidays are always filled with excitement and laughter, and the kids, they're learning to embrace the spirit of giving through the sibling gift exchange, which is going to be a hoot. The highlight this year, is that my parents live across the street now, as I mentioned before, adding an extra layer of joy to our celebrations. And hey, remember the holiday season, it's not just about exchanging gifts, it's also an ideal time for self-care and personal reflection. Whether your family celebrates with Santa-like enthusiasm or takes a more low-key Grinch style approach, make sure to carve out some time for yourself. BetterHelp offers an easy way to start therapy as simple as doing your holiday shopping, or you could choose to unwind and enjoy some quiet time. BetterHelp makes therapy accessible and comfortable. Like a cozy evening in your holiday pajamas, just fill out a brief questionnaire. You'll be matched with a therapist who suits your needs, and if the fit isn't right, you can easily switch therapists without any extra fees. This holiday consider BetterHelp as a gift to your own mental health. It could be the most valuable present you give yourself this year.

[00:25:03] Jen Harbinger: In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with better help. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan today to get 10 percent off your first month. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:25:13] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by AG1. If you're a long-time listener, you might know I've been drinking AG1 for the better part of a decade. The founder, who is a huge health enthusiast and friend of mine, he introduced me to it a long time ago. When I started drinking AG1 every day, again, I don't want to get into too much detail, just my gut health improved. It was a noticeable result, if you will, and that's because AG1 is a foundational nutrition supplement. That supports your body's universal needs, like gut optimization, stress management, immune support. Since 2010, AG1 has led the future of foundational nutrition continuously refining their formula to create a smarter, better way to elevate your baseline health. Even my friends in nursing, especially my friends in nursing who face those crazy 12 hours shifts with hardly any time for a break have started using AG1. And they love the fact that they can get some quick nutrition in while they're on their feet.

[00:26:01] Jen Harbinger: AG1 is the supplement we trust to provide the support our body needs daily, and that's why they've been a partner for so long. If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply vitamin D3 + K2, and five free AG1 travel packs with your first purchase. Go to drinkagone.com/jordan. That's drinkagone.com/jordan and check it out.

[00:26:23] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening too and supporting this podcast. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. Although you are sitting in a dark closet right now, Gabriel, so maybe people need to support harder. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for the sponsors using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show.

[00:26:45] Now back to Feedback Friday, which you can reach friday@jordanharbinger.com, of course, yada yada. We keep you anonymous.

[00:26:54] All right, so as we close out 2023, Gabe and I wanted to take a few minutes to look back at the year in doozies, talk about a few of the interesting themes that came up a lot and just, you know, sit back and warm our hands in the collective dumpster fire you guys have started in our inbox, which for the record, we absolutely love and feel lucky to be a part of.

[00:27:13] And you know, we're not entirely eager to put out because y'all's drama is straight fire. So, Gabe, last year I remember us talking about how a lot of the situations we discussed in the show. They usually don't have easy answers, right?

[00:27:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right.

[00:27:27] Jordan Harbinger: Previous years, I remember, some of the questions are short and it's like, oh, you should do this, real clear cut.

[00:27:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:32] Jordan Harbinger: Now, we're wade into those waters where things are a little more ambiguous, even though sometimes listeners write us like, "Just tell me what to do and how to feel and who to be mad at because I don't know." I get it. We all do. I mean, this is an advice show and we do try to steer you guys a little bit.

[00:27:47] But unless the situation is super black or white, you know, someone's in an abusive relationship. They're wrestling with an addiction, they're working for a crappy boss. They took out their boyfriend's knees with a fricking rubber mallet.

[00:27:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, which by the way, we got so many emails about that one.

[00:28:01] Jordan Harbinger: We did.

[00:28:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: I got to thank you guys for that. Because we really filled in some gaps that we did not appreciate.

[00:28:06] Jordan Harbinger: Indeed. Side note, when we took that letter from the woman who was trying to decide whether to reach out to her abusive ex who had been maybe paralyzed by his new girlfriend, who kneecapped him with a rubber mallet she had in the trunk and then ran him over with her car.

[00:28:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Twice, I would add.

[00:28:20] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yes. Twice. Which as you probably recall, made us crack up and I still feel kind of bad about it, but not really, especially after a bunch of you wrote to me saying, "You were cracking up too, which makes me feel less like I'm going straight to hell." But when we talked about that letter, Gabe and I were like, okay, why the hell does this woman have a rubber mallet in her car? This must have been premeditated because there's no legit reason to have that in there. Well, a lot of you pointed out that people use rubber mallets to change flat tires because if you have a rusty situation, you got to bang the thing off. Or pound signs into the ground and it turns out that you guys are right. Or perhaps you're butting knee cappers and you've got your excuses lined up already, which more power to you, I suppose.

[00:29:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Amen.

[00:29:01] Jordan Harbinger: But yeah, sure enough. The woman who knee capped that guy and tried to kill him with her Chevy Tahoe was — wait for it — a real estate agent who pounds in signs all the time.

[00:29:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. Just pounding for sale signs into the ground by day and committing aggravated assault by night.

[00:29:16] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. I don't know why that makes it even funnier somehow because there was a legitimate use for the mallet.

[00:29:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know why.

[00:29:22] Jordan Harbinger: Look, I say funny, I mean funny in a Cohen brothers kind of way, where it's also horrifying and uncomfortable.

[00:29:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. But also it's just wild to imagine your real estate agent trying to kill her boyfriend and spending the night in jail and then showing up at a house showing the next morning, like, "And here's the dining room, tons of space as you can see. You know, got to love that natural light."

[00:29:41] Jordan Harbinger: Like little blood stain on the clothes. Yes. I will have a mini muffin. So while she's — man, when we were looking at houses, I would eat those, the food that they had set out. And Jen was always like, "What are you doing? Don't eat that. It's probably like a week old," and sure enough, a lot of that stuff—

[00:29:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Known for their cuisine, the house showings, I think.

[00:29:58] Jordan Harbinger: No, no, no they are not. And for good reason, it's like Safeway clearance out.

[00:30:02] Anyway, sorry for that digression. Just had to give you guys that update because I thought, wow, that does shed light on why somebody would've rubber mallet in their trunk besides the fact that they're psychopath. And acknowledging that among the handful of mistakes we've made on this show.

[00:30:14] Here's another one. One more interesting theme from this year — how little we know about changing tires. Can you even change a tire on a car that I own? Do I need to go get a rubber mallet now?

[00:30:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: AAA, all the way.

[00:30:29] Jordan Harbinger: !Yeah.

[00:30:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't see you getting down on your hands and knees on the side of the road changing your entire, no offense.

[00:30:32] Jordan Harbinger: Dude, that looks dangerous. I see that and I'm like, hell no.

[00:30:35] But back to the point, unless the situation is very practical or black or white, Gabe and I usually like to lay out different options and ask some questions and help people get comfortable with the idea that there might not be one right answer, but more a way of moving through these situations that hopefully leads to the best possible outcome.

[00:30:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. It's usually more about process.

[00:30:56] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. And being in process with your own life. I know that sounds like a dumb self-help turn, but that's one of the things I think about a lot on this show, making the shift from, "I need to get this right," or, "I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong," or, "I need to achieve this specific thing." To go from that mindset to, "I'm going to explore this opportunity and see what I learn," or, "I'm going to honor my values on this one, even though I don't know where they're leading me."

[00:31:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Or, "I'm going to make peace with the fact that my choice might create new problems that I don't know how to handle yet, but I'm going to figure those out too when the time comes."

[00:31:29] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. This comes up a lot in those letters where somebody's going through a situation, they literally can't change.

[00:31:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:35] Jordan Harbinger: Like when a loved one is dying, someone lost their job, they just moved to a new country, they feel super lonely, or their parent is a nightmare and they're not going to change. The list goes on and on.

[00:31:45] And I've said this before, those are some of the hardest letters that we take. Because sometimes there aren't even options. There's just surviving, adapting and taking care of yourself along the way. It's all process.

[00:31:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Looking at a situation and going, "Okay, I'm just, I'm going to have to stop trying to fix this and I'm going to have to learn to make some peace with it, even just a little bit." We saw that a lot this year. Look at the story we just heard, right? "My sister seems pretty dead set on joining a possible cult, and she doesn't seem to want to hear my advice. She might, I might not be able to stop her," but we also hear it in letters like, "My sister will not go to rehab," or, "My boss will not listen to feedback." Or, "My industry is slowly dying and now I have to go work for my competitor," for example.

[00:32:25] The only reasonable option sometimes is to throw up your hands and go, "Okay, this sucks. This is really awful, but I'm pretty much powerless here. So maybe the answer is to not try to change things," but to accept them and then to figure out where to go from there.

[00:32:40] Jordan Harbinger: That is an important caveat. Because I think sometimes when we told people this year, it's time to accept this situation, people heard us saying, "Eh, it's time to give up."

[00:32:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:48] Jordan Harbinger: And sometimes that is what it means. Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is give up. There's wisdom in knowing when to step back and accept a situation. But in my experience, you usually have to admit that you can't change a situation before you discover what you can do, if that makes sense.

[00:33:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:04] Jordan Harbinger: You accept it first and then you act. But what you end up doing is usually more about shifting your lens and taking care of yourself rather than trying to change a situation. So you draw a stronger boundary with your chaotic sibling, or you adjust your expectation of your difficult parent. Or you take a temporary job while you invest in your relationships and ask yourself what really lights you up, whatever it is.

[00:33:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Acceptance doesn't mean passivity or giving up forever. In fact, it's usually quite the opposite. But what's hard about that is then you got to deal with a whole bunch of feelings that accepting something brings up, which was another really big theme that we heard on the show this year. Because as long as you're holding out hope that there's an easy solution or there's one clear solution, you can pour all of your energy into doing something. But when you can't change a situation, then something new happens, and then you have to be angry. You have to be sad, you have to be worried. Sometimes you might feel weak or you might feel defeated or confused, whatever it is.

[00:34:03] So many of the letters we took this year were ultimately about that experience going from, "How do I fix this person because they're driving me crazy?" Or, "How do I change this situation because I can't live with it anymore?" Going from that to, "Okay, how do I work through this awful feeling now that I know I can't?"

[00:34:20] Jordan Harbinger: Right, and that's the process of grief, actually, which was another huge theme this year. Well, every year really, but especially this year. In 2023, a lot of you guys mourned, relationships that ended jobs that you lost, jobs you used to love but don't love anymore, homes you left, dreams you had, plans that got derailed. Some of you even mourned ideas that you used to hold that you no longer believe in, but you still kind of miss, in addition to mourning people who have passed away, of course. Those letters are tough too, but I find them really moving because mourning is really such a big part of life.

[00:34:54] In fact, I think it was Dr. Margolis who pointed out that mourning well is a skill and it's not a skill that most of us are taught, and it's a huge part of being alive. It's kind of happening all the time in every situation, whether we realize it or not.

[00:35:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think about that a lot actually, and it's one of my favorite things that Dr. Margolis said this year. And in that mourning process, you guys have found some really incredible insights, I have to say. I mean, I can't tell you how many letters we got this year from people who said things like, you know, "My mom died last year and it was devastating. But now I know what truly matters to me. It's my family, it's my art. It's making the most of the time I have." Or you know, somebody writes in and says, "I've published a bunch of books over my life and now I can't get a new book deal. And I thought maybe it was time for me to say goodbye to my writing career, but I decided to keep doing it and I did it just for myself now. And a year later, this amazing new opportunity came out of it." Or you know, one week at a lot is, "I got laid off from my job and my entire life fell apart."

[00:35:51] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: "But because of that, I met this incredible person and they changed my life. And now I'm working at this amazing new company and I love it. And I'm actually very grateful because now I know that it can all go away in an instant." It is extraordinary. But a lot of that insight and that openness and that gratitude really. Those have to come out of this process of grief.

[00:36:12] Jordan Harbinger: The gratitude theme is obviously a big one, and it's one that I relate to personally a lot. It's hard to be grateful without experiencing some kind of loss.

[00:36:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:36:20] Jordan Harbinger: And it's usually when something goes away that we wake up and go, "Oh man, I did not even realize how special that was. Crap. I should have appreciated that when I had it. It's a cliche. I know, but it is very true."

[00:36:32] As you guys know, I felt a version of that when I lost my old show coming up on, I think like six, yeah, six years ago. So crazy. All the stability and structure and identity, especially that I had back then, that all went away virtually overnight, and I just didn't fully realize how much I valued it. But then it's interesting losing that old structure, having to start this new one, absolutely, the best thing that could have happened to me, which again, another cliche, but one that I fully believe, you just don't know where loss is going to take you. It can take you somewhere really interesting and great, but you might have to wander in the wilderness for a little while.

[00:37:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's so true, and I mean, I'm so tempted sometimes when people write in saying, "I just lost this thing that I really want," and I just want to say sometimes like, "Write me in a year and tell me where you are because I'm so curious to know where this is leading you," but that's a very hard thing to tell somebody who's grieving a huge loss. You know, don't worry, this could turn out to be a blessing.

[00:37:28] Jordan Harbinger: Yet no one wants to fricking hear that.

[00:37:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Of course not.

[00:37:31] Jordan Harbinger: And they just got fired.

[00:37:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:37:32] Jordan Harbinger: And they have three kids in a mortgage and they're supporting their parents. Hearing, "This might be the best thing that's ever happened to you. Just think of all your opportunities," that makes most people, including me, want to punch the person who said it directly in the throat.

[00:37:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Of course, I mean, these are massive losses and sometimes they are not blessings, right? They just suck and they suck for a long time before something new reveals itself.

[00:37:54] But this goes back to that earlier theme we were talking about how we move through those losses. That is really ultimately what determines whether they turn into something else and something hopefully better.

[00:38:05] For example, Jordan, like if you hadn't gotten off of your couch and started the new show and threw yourself into rebuilding even while you were grieving, then losing your show might have been a disaster that lasted. Who knows months? I mean, some people never recover from a setback like that. It can define the rest of their life. And then they never look around to see, "Oh, hey, what unexpected opportunities are now coming to the fore in that loss."

[00:38:28] Jordan Harbinger: I think that's why these losses have to happen a lot of the time. It's how life seems to want to work. The adversity, the conflict, the failure — they somehow function to put us on a different path if we work with them the right way. And it's not that every loss is a blessing in disguise, not immediately. I mean, sometimes it is. Sometimes losing something is literally and immediately the best thing that could happen to you. But more often than not, it's that every loss changes the equation, right? It changes your circumstances.

[00:38:57] And when circumstances change something new pops up always. It might not be fun, it might not be pleasant. It actually might be kind of horrible, but it's something. And those are opportunities and the way that we respond to those opportunities, the way we invest in them with hard work and meaning, that's actually what reveals the opportunity within the disaster.

[00:39:18] Then nine months later, two years later, five years down the road, whatever it is, you look back and you go, "Oh, that was a blessing in disguise," but what you really mean is, "I made it become a blessing in the way that I made sense of it, the way that I used it and turned it into something else." And that's another thing that we've seen you guys do over and over and over again this year. And that has been honestly, super inspiring and motivating to watch.

[00:39:42] But hey, you know what else might be the best thing that ever happened to you, Gabriel? The amazing deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:39:54] This episode is sponsored in part by Wrkout. All right, so this is a personal training platform, an online personal training platform. It's like having a fitness genie in your smartphone. One of my close friends created it. It's one of the best decisions I've ever made from my health. He actually kind of forced it on me, and it's the best thing that's ever happened to me besides probably my wife and kids. Jen's been training since June. She's been killing it three days a week, getting back to her pre-baby fitness level. And my 82-year-old mom also does this. When we lost our family dog, she just kind of stopped going on walks and it was tough. But enter Wrkout, she's not just back to moving. She's formed this amazing connection with her trainer, which has been a total game changer for her both, for her mood, her health. As for me, I'm all in four sessions a week. I got Chad and Kareem. Of course, those are the most trainer names ever. Keeping an eye on me, tracking my heart rate live, throwing new routines at me, I'd never dream up on my own. It's challenging in the best way possible. But what I love is the flexibility. I bring my laptop with me when I travel to Hawaii and I just say, "Hey, time change. I'm going to be in the hotel gym around this time. Can you fit me in?" "Yes." Forget the gym hunts or the missed workouts. I've even been places where there's no gym and I'm like, hey, I got a bed and a floor and I'll do a full workout. Your trainers just to tap away with this stuff. Ready whenever you are. Top-notch training anytime, anywhere. I'm more fit now at age 43 than I have ever been in my entire life, which is saying something. So if you're serious about making a change, you got to try this out. They don't pay me to promote them, actually. I just genuinely love and recommend this. Go to community.wrkout.com, community.W-R-K-O-U.T.com.

[00:41:23] This episode is also sponsored by FlyKitt. I used to be floored by jet lag whenever I traveled internationally, taking up to a two weeks sometimes to bounce back until FlyKitt came into my life. At first, I was like, whatever. It's a bunch of crappy supplements that I can easily get on my own. I'm not paying for this. It probably doesn't even do anything. I had a trip going to Bhutan. Our group leader suggested we use it. Like I said, I was like, no, thanks. The kit though came as a compact packet and I was really, I just sort of complained about it. To my embarrassment, I ended up refunding it and then I tried it and it was basically a miracle. I put my arrival time and desired wake up hours. The app gave precise instructions when to eat, what supplements to take, and when. Following this regimen, just completely spared me almost the jet lag in both directions. Since then, I've relied on FlyKitt for every major time zone shift during international travel. It's not placebo. It consistently works, or I should say it's not only placebo. Who knows what part of it? Probably is, but the rest of it sure isn't. I even got to know the founder, who amusingly recalls my initial skepticism, if you can call it that. He explained that FlyKitt's strategy inspired by research with Navy SEALs and other special forces addresses inflammation caused by flying. Inflammation can cause things like brain fog, energy dips, gut problems. Flykitt also uses AI because, of course, to time light exposure. There's proprietary supplements, mealtime, sleep, all tailored to your travel plans. It's not just like sleep whenever you can and take a vitamin. Everything you need is in the FlyKitt pack. And the app's step-by-step instructions with reminders ensure you land feeling fantastic. Don't sell this short, guys. I love this. Many of you have written in saying that it's worked really well for you. Go to FlyKitt with two t's dot com. That's fly-K-I-T-T.com and get a FlyKitt for 15 percent off with code JORDAN, FlyKitt with two t's dot com promo code JORDAN. Try it out on your next trip. Hit me up. I know it's going to kick butt for you.

[00:43:12] Hey, if you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. To learn more and get links to all the discounts you hear about on the show, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also always search for a sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well, or email me jordan@jordanharbinger.com. If you're super lazy or you can't remember the name of the product, I would love to surface the code for you. It is that important that you continue to support those who support the show.

[00:43:42] Now back to Feedback Friday.

[00:43:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: So, okay, we're getting a little, a little philosophical today, which I obviously love, but there's another question. We got a lot this year. This one's a lot more practical. And that question is, "When do I intervene in a situation that I am not directly involved in?"

[00:44:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, I am actually glad we're coming to this because it's been on my mind a lot too, and I think you have a letter to share about that, right?

[00:44:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: I do. So she writes.

[00:44:09] Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I was listening to a recent Feedback Friday, episode 920, the one about the woman who unknowingly slept with that married guy and was trying to decide whether to tell his wife. And I realized that I wanted to share my story with you. Almost 10 years ago. I started a relationship with a guy, let's call him Jerk Q. He moved in with me after nine months. He lied about his drug use, lack of work ethic, and pretty much everything else. After 18 months of living in my house for free, I kicked him out. Two months before I told him to leave. He told me he'd been using meth. But he loved me so much that he would stop. My father was an addict. My last boyfriend was an addict. I knew that I didn't want to take on another one. So I told him I was done and he finally moved out. But we kept in touch, a classic symptom of codependency on my part. Then two months after he moved out, I got a call from his mother saying that he tested positive for HIV.

[00:45:08] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. That is brutal. What a phone call to receive, also from mom, which is weird. Like why didn't he call?

[00:45:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: But—

[00:45:14] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, well.

[00:45:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Can you imagine getting that phone call? Ugh. Must have been horrible.

[00:45:17] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh.

[00:45:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, how did he get infected, you ask. He said before he met me when he was 44, he slept with a 25-year-old girl for about three months. They broke up. Six months later she called and told him that she was HIV positive. He was already in a relationship with me at that time. He didn't tell me about that call, and he didn't go get tested either.

[00:45:38] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, wow. So this guy is, I mean, what's the word? He's a horrible POS, right? To keep it family friendly.

[00:45:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:45:46] Jordan Harbinger: To withhold this information from somebody knowing it could kill them, that is completely antisocial. I mean, that is psycho. That is next level awful.

[00:45:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: His ex had the decency to call him and tell him about her status, and then he does not pass on that incredibly important favor to the person he lived with for 18 months. Terrible.

[00:46:03] Jordan Harbinger: He's a garbage human being.

[00:46:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on, he finally got tested because he was having all kinds of infections. He was admitted to a hospital. When the result came back, his CD4 count was a single digit, seven.

[00:46:16] The average CD4 count, by the way, I Googled it, is 500 to 1,400.

[00:46:21] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

[00:46:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: So—

[00:46:22] Jordan Harbinger: I don't even know what CD4 is, but if you're seven out of 1,400, I mean, that is really bad.

[00:46:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Really bad. Really bad.

[00:46:30] So she goes on, he got lucky. He is alive. For the next 18 months. I did a total of six tests. I am extremely lucky that I didn't get infected.

[00:46:41] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That is bananas. You are one lucky person. You must have a bulletproof hoo-ha or something. Congrats on that. Wow. That's really, I don't even know how that works.

[00:46:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Since the day my doctor told me I was completely cleared. I've wondered how I got so lucky. I feel like I'm a walking miracle.

[00:46:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:46:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then earlier this year, one night at 1:00 a.m. I opened my Instagram and saw one of his posts. I read the comments. One of them was from a woman. She said, "That boat is as hot as you, babe. I am so effing proud of you, emoji emoji, emoji, emoji." Knowing him, I knew he didn't tell her about his HIV status. I went to Facebook and found out that she was a friend of one of my good friends. My whole body shook nonstop. I woke up at six the next morning asking myself, what should I do? I worried about my personal safety, but then I thought, what are the chances that I could save this woman? So I called my friend. I told her everything. I told her she needed to alert her friend, but that she couldn't mention my name at all. That night, my friend called me back, my ex, and this other woman had had sex the previous week, Jerk Q texted this woman saying, "I got my balls checked. No STD."

[00:47:51] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, okay. Is your ex a 12-year-old boy from a bad '80s movie? "I got my balls checked." Literally, not even how STD tests work.

[00:47:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sounds a lot like a guy who's never had an STD test.

[00:48:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, yeah. Despite having one of the most deadly STDs of our time. This guy is the worst reckless disregard for other people, and also the cringey a-h*le.

[00:48:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, he sucks.

[00:48:13] So she goes on, I told my friend, I've done my part. I hope she's okay. She needs to go get tested and talk to her doctor. I also told my friend not to tell me anything about them anymore. I blocked Jerk Q on all platforms and devices. Then, I signed up for BetterHelp with Jordan's discount code.

[00:48:29] Thank you, Jordan.

[00:48:30] Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

[00:48:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's been seven and a half months and I have never felt this good in my life. I'm still doing all the exercises my therapist recommended. I intend to continue be a good human for the world and for myself one day at a time.

[00:48:44] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Sorry to interrupt, but this is another big theme from this year. So many of you took the leap and started therapy, and I think it's amazing. Big fan of anybody who seeks out the support they need. It takes real courage. It takes real dedication, especially when resources are tight, which I know can make a lot of people hesitate to find some help. Look at what this woman had to process after that relationship. Not just this guy's crazy, but a lifetime of codependency and nearly contracting a potentially deadly virus. And she's not just a healthier person on the other side of it, she's actually a better human being.

[00:49:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, talk about being in a process, right?

[00:49:19] Jordan Harbinger: Seriously. I know we bang on about going to therapy a lot and sometimes y'all get annoyed with us. Like, "Oh, why is your answer always go to therapy?" Like there's people who write and they're like, "I don't even listen to Feedback Friday. All you do is tell people, go to therapy." Well, this is why. It's important. It works.

[00:49:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: It does work. Unless you go to that Lydia who told that woman to just accept her husband's cheating because he is a dentist. And as we all know, dentists are famously narcissistic, so just put up with it.

[00:49:42] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah. I mean, if you're a dentist, you can just bang anyone you want apparently.

[00:49:46] Um, so let me rephrase with the right therapist, with the right approach, with the right mindset on the patient's part, therapy can be a game changer. Obviously, you got to find somebody who's, well, first of all, a real therapist and who's a good fit and isn't, what was it, Gabe? A former MMA fighter turned life coach who recommends everyone just start randomly doing psychedelics.

[00:50:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, if you end up with one of those bone heads, just hit us up and we'll tell you whether your therapist is ruining your life. Apparently, it's one of our new specialties.

[00:50:14] So she goes on. Now I know why I was so lucky. It gave me a chance to save another human. Before I called my friend. I asked myself this question over and over, what is my intention in telling this woman the truth? My intention was to possibly save a person's life. If the intention is clear and authentic, always tell. Signed, Feeling Great and in a Much Better Place After This Brush With Fate.

[00:50:42] Okay, so you can see why we wanted to share this letter with you guys. Like we talked about in that episode. When you guys ask us, "Should I get involved in someone else's business?" Those are really hard questions too, because it is not always clear where the line is. With this woman who slept with a married guy, for example, she's involved with him, but is she involved enough to call his wife? You know, is his marriage her business or does she owe it to another woman to give her the heads up even if she has to go out of her way and meddle in his life a little bit.

[00:51:09] Jordan Harbinger: And it's interesting, Gabe, because you and I sometimes disagree on this.

[00:51:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: We do. I think you tend to lean toward intervening and dropping a dime on people who have done something pretty terrible. Do you remember those people who defrauded the government on their PPP loan and they bought a bunch of, what was it, cameras or something?

[00:51:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:51:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: And then they went to Hawaii or something. Yeah, like this woman with the wife of the guy. And sometimes I'm a little bit more in the camp of, "Eh, live your own life, move on, let people work their own stuff out. It's not your business." But this letter really opened my eyes to how important it's to intervene sometimes. And obviously in this case, that's because people's literal lives are at stake. So this is a very clear cut situation for me. But still I am really starting to come around to this whole meddling thing. But especially when your intentions are noble and when they're clear.

[00:51:51] Jordan Harbinger: That's what I loved about this letter, that she was very thoughtful about her reasons for reaching out and she was clear about her agenda. It wasn't to get revenge, it wasn't to make herself feel better, it wasn't to participate in some juicy drams. She just wanted to possibly save this poor woman's life and help her dodge a bullet. And she probably did. Because even if this guy did infect her, which is terrifying to even think about. She can get medical care. She can take medication. She can easily live a long and healthy life, especially if you catch this stuff early, I think it's probably even easier, which is such a gift.

[00:52:23] But imagine if she didn't reach out to that other woman. I mean she might've died, right? Because he's going to lie to her and she's going to find out when she's getting like open sores on her back for no reason and she might've passed it on to who knows how many other people. I mean the ripple effect from what our friend did was huge. I really commend her for that.

[00:52:42] So there's another good takeaway from 2023 if the intention is clear and authentic always tell. I like that one.

[00:52:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, me too. I'm tucking that in my back pocket. And we will draw on that for many future Feedback Friday questions. I am sure.

[00:52:57] Jordan Harbinger: All right. So I have one last theme I want to touch on before we wrap up. This came up a lot this year more than ever before, and that's the idea that something might not be your fault but it is still your responsibility to work through.

[00:53:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ooh, that's a really good one. One of my favorites. I think that's also a Dr. Margolis' banger. Right?

[00:53:15] Jordan Harbinger: It makes sense. It sounds like something she would say for sure. So this one came up actually in several letters from people who had been through major trauma, right? Especially very old traumas like parents who abuse them, a sibling who manipulated them, a partner who hurt them, whatever it was.

[00:53:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Or I'm thinking of, you know, people have a new mental health diagnosis, or they just discovered a difficult pattern, or they just learned about a really weird family secret and they don't know what to do about it.

[00:53:39] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Something they inherited in some sense, and that they're now struggling with. And it clearly wasn't their fault that this thing happened, right? Like they're the product of a bad relationship, like an incestuous relationship, and it was just terrible. It's not their fault at all, and they didn't have any choice in the matter. But now, they're grown up and it's their job to address it.

[00:53:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:58] Jordan Harbinger: There's a connection to Jocko Willing's idea of extreme ownership here, and it's very powerful. In your personal life at work, anywhere, really, the whole concept of taking charge of the piece of something that you can control and not getting too hung up on whose fault it was that the situation got created in the first place.

[00:54:16] What we hear from a lot of people wrestling with this idea is a great deal of anger and resistance, that it's somehow now on them to fix something that they didn't choose to have or experience. And I get that, man, damn, do I get that. But hearing these stories and even looking at parts of my own story, I realize more and more that a big part of life is accepting that we have to take responsibility for things that weren't our fault, that we didn't deserve, but that our hours to figure out and maybe remedy. Because who the hell else's job is it going to be to work on those things?

[00:54:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:54] Jordan Harbinger: And also working on them is what's going to lead to significant growth in the first place.

[00:54:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. It's such an interesting paradox, isn't it? That we're responsible for resolving things that we did not have a hand in creating but also what a powerful idea. And so many of you guys wrote in this year saying that that is precisely what you did with your families, with your partners. A lot of you did in therapy and you had major breakthroughs, which I think is brilliant.

[00:55:16] And you know, for me, this is closely tied to another idea we encountered on the show a lot this year, which is the whole topic of blame. So I think sometimes people hear us say, "Look, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Now it's time for you to go work on it." Or they hear us tell somebody, "Yeah, you're right, your coworker was hurtful when they said that mean thing to you in that meeting. But also what is it in you that was so vulnerable to being hurt by that person?"

[00:55:40] Sometimes people hear statements like that as us blaming the person for what happened, and I think I can understand why it might come across that way sometimes, but in fact, we're not blaming people when we say stuff like that. It's actually quite the opposite. We're trying to empower them to take accountability for their piece of a situation. You know, their ability to work on a wound, what they said or did in response to the problematic thing or the problematic person, what part of them was susceptible to being wounded or exposed or provoked in that way, whatever it is. Because when we look at these letters, I think that's how we feel people can find their agency, especially in situations like dealing with old traumas or difficult relationships where they might not have a lot of control.

[00:56:21] So I'm really glad you brought this one up, Jordan. I think it's part of almost every letter we take this idea that it can be our responsibility to address things that were not our fault and that we don't need to feel blamed for anything in the process of doing that.

[00:56:35] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. We can just do the work and reap the benefits of addressing it, even if we wouldn't have chosen it for ourselves.

[00:56:42] All right. Look, we can go on for hours about the most interesting ideas we encountered on the show this year. We could do a whole Dick Clark, Ryan — does anybody remember that guy? Ryan Seacrest style Feedback Friday, New Year's Bash, New Year's Rockin' Eve.

[00:56:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: You just spoke to both halves of our demographic.

[00:56:57] Jordan Harbinger: I did. Yeah, I tried anyways.

[00:56:58] But we got to wrap this up — now, it's like a TikTok thing, which I don't even use. So before we sign off, I'd just like to say thank you all so much for listening to this show. Thank you for engaging with what we put out in such a thoughtful way. Thank you for sharing the show with your friends and family and colleagues. Thank you for supporting our sponsors in using our discount codes. Thank you for your amazing ratings and reviews, and thank you for writing in and sharing your stories with us on Feedback Friday week after week.

[00:57:25] Honestly, you guys are the best. I feel very lucky to have a show family like this. I love hearing from you guys, even when you yell at me for missing a point or interviewing somebody you didn't like or roasting Gabe's Que Bonito hat too much. Although I maintain that, that hat is objectively ridiculous and he is asking for it by wearing it when we record this show.

[00:57:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: I never said it wasn't ridiculous. I wear it with a lot of irony and self-awareness, so I'm not going to stop wearing it. And also, I'm in too deep now.

[00:57:57] Jordan Harbinger: Too deep into the bonito lifestyle, eh? I don't know, Gabe. Sounds a little, sounds a little culty.

[00:58:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: It does.

[00:58:02] Jordan Harbinger: And by the way, if those people from question one can build a cult off cheap labor and chagaccinos, you can build a cult off that merch.

[00:58:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that's such a good idea. Unfortunately, it's not my merch, but yeah — you know what? Maybe I should open a vegan restaurant to help pay for all the leather bracelets that I'm going to hand out to my disciples when that day comes.

[00:58:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. You guys hear that? Gabe is roasting himself this time. I didn't even have to do it. So don't yell at me for making fun of him when he does it too.

[00:58:24] Anyway, I say this all the time. We have the greatest show fans. Thank you for allowing me to do this thing that I love so much. Your support is everything to us. I hope we've given you as much as you've given us this year.

[00:58:36] I also want to give a special shout out to my incredible team. Jen, my wife, the best producer and partner I could ask for. Jace, our editor, who makes us sound so good and also made us cry way too much this year. Bob, our wizard behind the scenes, maister of the show notes and the episode titles and the qc. Ian, your videos and edits are money. Millie, your transcripts are awesome, and let people enjoy the show in all sorts of different ways. And Gabe, who's, you know, fine, I guess he gets the job done. Obviously, I'm playing Gabe, doing feedback Friday with you is awesome. I don't know how to sum it up. It's the highlight of my week. It's a hell of a lot of fun. We're helping a ton of people and I never expected it to go this well, not because of you, but because of me.

[00:59:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Uh, thank you for saying that. I feel the exact same way and uh, I just, yeah. I feel so lucky. So lucky to be part of the show.

[00:59:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, you are lucky. I'm glad you feel the same. And really, thanks for letting me roast you so much and not rage quitting in despair.

[00:59:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: No problem. Of course, man. I mean, it would be kind of a bad look for me to be, you know, a low key Buddhist and then turn around and get mad when you make fun of my sweatshirt.

[00:59:37] Jordan Harbinger: No, it's not very spiritual gangster of you to get mad when somebody makes fun of you wearing a spiritual gangster tank top.

[00:59:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: I have to live up to the cliche.

[00:59:45] Jordan Harbinger: That's right.

[00:59:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: I have to live my life in accordance with the ridiculousness.

[00:59:48] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. I guess all that daily yoga basically requires you to put up with me or be a total hypocrite.

[00:59:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep.

[00:59:54] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, anything else you want to say before we close out?

[00:59:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, man, we've talked a lot today, so I don't know. I don't want to overstay my welcome, but yes, I do want to say that 2023 was a very big year. It was a big year for the show and it was also a big year for me, personally. I moved into a new apartment after the whole Josh situation and that totally changed my life. And I went and wrote and directed my first movie, which was just an incredible experience. And I've started working on some new stories and formats, and I know for a fact that I would not have done any of that if this show and your friendship, Jordan, were not a part of my life.

[01:00:29] I mean, it's not just because I get to work on this amazing project with one of my closest friends, and I find it just so fun and so inspiring, but also because hearing your stories every week has taught me so much. I think probably a lot more than you guys realize. I mean, there were literally moments this year when I was totally overwhelmed with the movie. Literally, I can think of myself on set, panicking or feeling kind of down, or just a little confused about which way to go. And sometimes I would ask myself, what if I were writing into Feedback Friday? You know, what would I tell myself?

[01:00:58] And then I would kind of like Jordan and Gabe myself, and I would think about the standard that you guys would probably hold me to, and then I would know what to do. So I just want to thank you guys for that, for all of that.

[01:01:08] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And yet, after all of that introspection, it still didn't stop you from wearing the Que Bonito hat, did you?

[01:01:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Bro, the Que Bonito hat is staying okay. 2024 is going to see a lot more Que Bonito, so you're just wrong on this. History will be on my side with that hat.

[01:01:26] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, that sounds a lot like what a cult leader who buys an unincorporated piece of land in the middle of Central California would say, but okay.

[01:01:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, also, I said this last year, I want to say it again. I know our job on the show is to be clever and have all the answers and just tell you guys what to do as much as we can, but I really do think of our role here as figuring life out alongside you guys. Yes, Jordan and I have been through some stuff. Yes, we have a few years on some of you, but mostly we're just a couple of want-to-be-enlightened Lydias living life with you and trying to share what we've learned and what we find works best.

[01:01:59] We don't always get it right. We don't always get it perfect. Like Jordan said, some of my favorite conversations are when you guys school us on something that we just completely missed. And I'm not just talking about the rubber mallet usage, I'm talking about the bigger stuff. But getting to be in your headphones while you guys go through these huge experiences and these tough problems and these big breakthroughs, it is — ah, I don't know how to say it. I don't want to be cheesy — but it's a real privilege and it's such a joy. It really is.

[01:02:24] So yeah, I am very grateful to you, Jordan, for bringing me into your show, three, almost four years ago now. And I'm so grateful to all of you guys for being so vulnerable and so courageous and your letters and for trusting us frankly, with your stories. That means the world to me.

[01:02:40] So, I love you Jordan. I love you guys and I hope 2024 is a great year for all of you.

[01:02:47] Jordan Harbinger: Amen. Gabe, right back at you, man. Another year in the books, man. More gray hair. People ask me why I have a weird haircut. It's because I'm cutting off all the gray. They're like, why would you shave the sides of your head. Let me tell you when I let it grow out—

[01:02:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is that why every other month you look like a Nazi youth member?

[01:03:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's why that, yeah, I do the Hitler youth gang thing, not because I'm a fan of the ideology, but it does hide that incoming gray quite well.

[01:03:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's really good to know because I will not roast you for that anymore, but I'm just really happy to have that on the record now.

[01:03:15] Jordan Harbinger: Like in my Kobe video, one of the top comments that was liked by like 2,400 people was, "Man, sack your hairdresser." And I'm like, damn it. Come on, man. I got Kobe Bryant here and people are like, "That guy's haircut is bad." Alll right, this is why I like podcasting and not YouTube. Hope

[01:03:31] y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much.

[01:03:36] Go back and check out my conversation with Oliver Stone on Nuclear Power if you haven't done so yet.

[01:03:40] Show notes and transcripts at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi, or on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.

[01:03:58] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Corbin Payne. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

[01:04:30] You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Olympic speed skater Apolo Ohno.

[01:04:35] Apolo Ohno: To me, the power of belief is the real lesson. I could tap into this unknown reservoir of performance potential. I believed that there was this sixth gear that I had access to. Then everyone else only had five. I truly believe that. I was able to use my fear of failure in a way that was so powerful. It became a superpower. But over long enough durations of time, it also became toxic.

[01:05:04] We all live as if we have this infinite life, right? We take things for granted. We're grinding and very natural human experience. I do this too. Life is this incredible gift and so do not waste it on sh*t that is like, just like not worthy. It doesn't serve you and who you want to truly become.

[01:05:23] If there's one message that I can leave to people is that your choices to respond and react to the situations that you're meeting today are solely within your control, solely. Whether you are hyper successful and you decide what you want to do next, whether you are failing miserable and you're deeply unhappy, or you feel like you're just floating and you're just like kinda like, ah, everyone seems like they all have it around me, it's all noise. The person that actually creates momentum and progress is the one that doesn't listen to that voice unless it's using it for fuel to actually make progression and positive movement.

[01:05:56] Everything that I dedicate myself towards today, my life mission is about how do we create a more open communication channel to create conversation that actually moves and inspires and reminds people of the superpowers that we actually really all have within.

[01:06:13] Jordan Harbinger: For more with Apolo Ohno, the most decorated winter athlete in Olympic history, check out episode 783 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[01:06:23] This episode is sponsored in part by Strictly Stalking podcast. Hey, listeners, I know there's no shortage of true crime content out there, but I have to tell you about this new podcast to binge on. It's called Strictly Stalking, which is a clever title I admit. Every Tuesday host, Jaimie and Jake cover unique stalking case by interviewing, stalking survivors, advocates and experts. Each episode is jaw dropping and really opens your eyes to seeing that stalkers aren't just jealous exes. They can be neighbors, family members, classmates, even complete strangers. Just imagine being stalked by somebody you met on a dating app that's episode 153, or by the worship leader from your church, episode 137. I mean, that's surprising, but shouldn't be, right? Because those people often seek positions of power and they're creepy. It's just terrifying to know that these downright, yeah, creepy experiences are real. They're super common. There's not much our justice system can even do to help the victims until it reaches just out of control levels of violence and threats. Jaimie and Jake are more than just the voices on the podcast. They're actually trying to make a positive change for survivors of stalking, and they're taking us along for the ride. Glad they're helping bring awareness to the reality of stalking and hopefully help others who are in these types of crazy situations. We've heard those situations on Feedback Friday. They're absolutely real and absolutely terrifying. Check out Strictly Stalking on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.