195: Leon Logothetis | Surviving on the Kindness of Strangers

Transcript for Leon Logothetis | Surviving on the Kindness of Strangers (Episode 195)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer Jason DeFillippo. Today's guest comes by way of multiple recommendations from all of you. So many of you told me to go to watch The Kindness Diaries on Netflix and interview the show's host Leon Logothetis. So I did and it was a lot of fun. For those of you who don't know, Leon is traveling around the world with no money at all, relying solely on the kindness of those he meets along the way and the results are pretty amazing and eye-opening. We'll go behind the scenes to some of the fun, ridiculous, touching, and even sometimes dangerous situations he gets himself into usually in the middle of nowhere and in a vehicle completely ill-suited to the journey. I also wanted to know how Leon's troubled past informed his crazy undertaking, how he uses some newfound persuasion skills to navigate around the globe without a dollar in his pocket, and how he's learned to avoid trouble overseas even though by watching the show it seems he gets into plenty of trouble anyway. This is a really fun conversation and you'll enjoy it whether or not you're familiar with The Kindness Diaries.

[00:01:00] Speaking of relationship development and networking, that is something that's allowed Leon to navigate the globe twice now, and many of the skills he uses are similar to what we're teaching in Six-minute Networking, which is a free course that we have for you on relationship development and networking. It's at jordanharbinger.com/course. All right, here's Leon Logothetis.

[00:01:19] Let's get the premise out. So you're traveling around the world based on people's kindness just with no money. It seems like a really tough idea to execute.

Leon Logothetis: [00:01:28] Do you know what it is? It's easy when you kind of like think of the idea to like travel around the world, but when you're actually doing it, you realize that A, you have no money. B, you have nowhere to live, and C, unless you connect with another human being, you're finished. So it is a bit of a challenge. But what I'd like to say is that sometimes you have to burn your ships. And what I mean by that is you have to leave yourself no option but to keep going forward. And the only way to go forward if you have no money and no place to stay is to rely on the kindness of strangers. And that's kind of what I did.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:07] Yeah, I like the idea. I love the premise and we'll get into more of the details on that obviously but I want to know how you got the idea for the show. Because, of course, "Hey, let's travel around the world." "Great idea." No -- what do they call it? Like no hook. And then it's like traveling around the world, "No money." And they're like, "Okay, let's see how this goes."

Leon Logothetis: [00:02:26] So basically I watched the movie, The Motorcycle Diaries, which is like a romanticized version of Che Guevara, traveling around South America, relying on kindness. And there was something about that movie that really touched me right in the center of my heart. And at the time I was a broker in London and --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:45] Like a commodities broker?

Leon Logothetis: [00:02:47] Yeah. I'm primarily a shipping broker.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:49] Okay.

Leon Logothetis: [00:02:49] And I was so depressed and I would walk into work every day, literally like just in a terrible state. And after watching this movie, I realized there was another way to live. I didn't have to sit behind this desk anymore. I could go out and connect with human beings. I could live an adventurous life. It kind of like sparked something in me that was always there, but I kind of forgotten about. And once that movie was kind of in my heart, there was no turning back. It was like, "That's it. I'm going to quit my job. And it's all going to become better." Now, clearly, it didn't end, I mean --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:26] And there's like ellipsis in there.

Leon Logothetis: [00:03:29] Well exactly. So you know, it was so serendipitous as well that I watched that movie. I mean, I could quite easily have not seen it, but it was there. I watched it for two hours or so. I was kind of like touched and inspired. And then the rest is history as they say.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:46] Yeah. I think a lot of people are unhappy in their jobs. Not everyone should quit and travel around the world and vagabond and stuff. But I think that this was like you said, it was already there. And how do you know that, that idea that that desire was already in your head versus like, "Oh, I just hate my job and I need to leave"?

Leon Logothetis: [00:04:03] Do you know what it was for me? It was a calling. You know, when something happens to you and you feel it in every fiber of your being, this is the right thing to do. There's no like no one can tell you don't do it. It's like, you know, and after watching that movie, I knew. Because I remember as a kid I was really adventurous and I had this crazy imagination and I'd read all these books.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:29] Are you an only child?

Leon Logothetis: [00:04:30] No, I was the middle child.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:33] Okay same thing.

Leon Logothetis: [00:04:33] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:34] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:04:34] And that movie kind of re-energized that part of me that wanted to see the world, that wanted to connect with people, that wanted to live adventurously, that wanted to truly be present in this world. So thank you to Motorcycle Diaries.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:54] Yeah, that's pretty good. Who directed that? Who created that?

Leon Logothetis: [00:04:58] I don't know who directed it. Have I ever reached out to him? You know, I thought about it, but I didn't because I was like, "Look, who am I?" I mean, the guy probably has thousands of people telling him that the movie changed his life.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:08] How many people made a TV show about it though? You should stay at his house. Or maybe have him stay at yours. I don't know. Some sort of payback thing. When you were a kid, you were bullied, you said?

Leon Logothetis: [00:05:18] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:19] What's going on there? Like, did that have some sort of effect on the whole kindness thing I would imagine?

Leon Logothetis: [00:05:25] You know, 100 percent because as a kid and a young adult, I felt profoundly alone. I felt alone at home. I felt alone at school.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:35] Were you bullied by your siblings or kids at school?

Leon Logothetis: [00:05:39] Pretty much a kid to school. But I just really felt profoundly alone. I felt profoundly unseen. I had this teacher who was really a life changer. She would say to me every day, she would be like, "I believe in you," among other things. And really what she was doing was being kind, what she was doing was kind of like a witness to my pain and sometimes all we need to do is to have one person to see us. And she saw me. I've kind of experienced being emotionally on the floor and I've experienced being on the highest mountain emotionally and everything in between. And I wanted to share with others what she shared with me. She shared this like magic, this kindness, I see. So I wanted to do the same thing, but I also wanted to have an adventurous life. So I kind of just said, "All right. Let's go travel around the world relying on kindness." Kind of like both things in one.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:39] Yeah. How long do these seasons take for the show? I'm wondering. I have so many logistics questions that I'm probably going to end up boring people. So I've deliberately spread them out through my notes because I don't want to talk about how TV shows are made for half an hour. But I'm so curious because when I'm binge-watching it with my producer and my wife or whatever, we're like, "Is this like a month or is it like seven months? You just don't know. We have no concept of this.

Leon Logothetis: [00:07:06] Yeah. So Season One, which was Los Angeles all the way around the world back to LA took five and a half months.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:11] Wow. That's actually pretty quick. It seems like.

Leon Logothetis: [00:07:14] Yeah, it's kind of quick because you know we kept on going continuously, continuously. And then Season Two, Alaska to Argentina was three and a half months.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:23] I saw it on the map and I went, it looks pretty far, but you have no idea just how many hours a day in the car are you?

Leon Logothetis: [00:07:31] It depends, but you could be traveling 10 hours. Like one day you're in the car for 10 hours and there's really not that much filming. You're just going from A to B.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:40] What was the slowest part of that journey from Alaska to Argentina? Like what part where you're just like, "I'm pretty sure we've passed that moose, that tree, that snowbank."

Leon Logothetis: [00:07:50] The craziest part of that journey when it comes to driving was Alaska and Canada.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:55] Because of the scale.

Leon Logothetis: [00:07:56] Yeah. And not just a scale, but I'm driving a 50-year-old convertible yellow Beetle with no heat.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:02] I know. I have a note about that later too, to be like, "What were you thinking?"

Leon Logothetis: [00:08:07] Well, clearly, not very clever. And for 2000, miles it was basically ice. So I was sitting there driving this car, having to be 100 percent focused because one little small mistake and I'd go off the road, which clearly I did a few times.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:25] I've seen that. You're in a lawnmower with a canvas top.

Leon Logothetis: [00:08:27] Basically. Yeah. And sometimes people say, "How on earth did you manage to do that?" And I don't think too much about what I'm doing until I get to where I am. So I don't think that I have to get from Alaska to Argentina. All I think about is how I have to get on a plane to Alaska. That's it. And then when I'm in Alaska, it's too late. Remember I talked about burning the ship?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:51] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:08:52] It's just too late. Well, I can't, I can't go home. There are people relying on me. I have to get this show done. And at that point, I'm like, "Oh my God, this is literally insane."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:02] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:09:02] Literally, I've lost my mind.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:04] I agree. Because the guy who restored your car for you is also a kindness, a turn of kindness. He gives you this portable heater. And I go, "All right, well, thank God for that." And then you're like, "I'm afraid to use this because it smells like gasoline in the car and this seems like a really bad way to die."

Leon Logothetis: [00:09:20] Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:20] You know, in the middle of Alaskan wilderness.

Leon Logothetis: [00:09:23] That'd be bad, kindness on fire. No, it's really bad.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:27] Yeah. It's just, there are so many funny elements of this. Jen and I were watching this and we're just like, "Why is he making it even harder on himself?" So season one, you're on this motorcycle with a sidecar. I've got a thing for motorcycles with sidecars. I just think it's the coolest. And I tried to buy one here -- and I don't know if you know this or if you just had that thing later on -- they are next to impossible to find. They are so rare. And you found one that was mediocre at the best condition. And then the first thing was LA to Las Vegas and I've done that drive. There's a lot of sun. You know, you're sitting here -- you're whiter than me. How are you kind of monitoring? How are you staying hydrated and making sure you don't turn to a crisp?

Leon Logothetis: [00:10:15] Yeah, no, I mean look, it's, it's really insane. And I actually bought the bike in Vegas and literally I mentioned this -- not in the show, in the other book I did -- I literally bought the bike, gave the guy the check within one minute the bike broke.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:33] Oh wow.

Leon Logothetis: [00:10:35] So he fixes it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:36] And that was nice of him.

Leon Logothetis: [00:10:36] Yeah, he was. I drive it back to LA and it breaks 45 minutes before I arrive in LA again.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:43] Wow.

Leon Logothetis: [00:10:43] And I'm like, "Oh my God, how the hell I'm going to do this. This is just madness."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:47] That's like a four hour or five-hour drive.

Leon Logothetis: [00:10:49] And I have to drive it from LA all the way around the world. So the bike clearly keeps breaking down and it's part of the fun of the show. Because to me, if I just think to myself, I'm going to do it in a really cool car. It takes away the fun for the viewer.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:05] Sure. Because I'm like, I want to do this, but I want to do it in an Escalade like fully loaded with a little refrigerator in the console for drinks. Not as good as for TV, much better for your sanity.

Leon Logothetis: [00:11:18] They were telling me actually that I should do Season Two in an electric vehicle.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:22] Yeah. Like a Model X.

Leon Logothetis: [00:11:24] Yeah. And I was like, first of all, there's no electricity in the middle of the wilderness in Alaska.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:30] Good point.

Leon Logothetis: [00:11:30] And secondly, if I arrive in an impoverished place with a really cool car and I'm asking for help, they're going to be like, "What the hell are you talking about?"

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:39] Good point. Like, "Hey, I don't have any money for food." "Cool. You're driving a $120,000 electric Model X, fully-loaded Tesla."

Leon Logothetis: [00:11:46] Exactly. You know, there's all little things. And also when I was a kid, I watched -- have you ever seen Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:53] Yeah. I have.

Leon Logothetis: [00:11:54] So I was obsessed with Chitty Chitty Bang Bang because I was in love with this car, so I wanted to create a character for the show as well. So it wasn't just about me, it was like this crazy car that people would fall in love with that would fly off cliffs and that would break down and then snow would come in the car and the windscreen wipers would break, all this kind of stuff. So it was like creating a character as well.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:19] Yeah. And it's cool you named it Kindness 1 and the second one is Kindness 2, the car, so the motorcycle upgraded to this VW Convertible Beetle. I was watching that yesterday and I was like, "How did the snow get in the car?" Everything was closed and yet it was snowing inside the car.

Leon Logothetis: [00:12:38] You know, that's a great question. I think how it happened was that it was a convertible. So the convertible didn't fully close. So basically when the snow came, it came into the car. And the same thing with rain. I was in Ecuador and it was raining and it was raining in the car. No, I mean it's madness, right?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:57] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:12:58] It's madness. But you watch it and you're like, "What is he doing?" But then part of the reason for the show isn't just about the adventure. It's clearly about the kindness. It's about the compassion. It's about the empathy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:10] Right.

Leon Logothetis: [00:13:11] But if I just said to people, "I'm doing a show on kindness." They'd be like, "Ah, I'm not watching that."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:15] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:13:15] But if I said to them, "Oh, I'm doing a show with a 50-year-old car in the middle of winter in Alaska and then with no money." "Ah, okay, I'll watch that." And then the kindness comes from behind.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:28] I think whoever greenlit this was like, "The kindness thing is kind of optional. We just want to watch this guy suffer for like 6,000 miles or 8,000 miles." Actually, how many miles was it around the world?

Leon Logothetis: [00:13:40] Around the world, I believe, it's 25,000 miles, something like that. And from Alaska to Argentina, I believe it's 12,000 miles. Because I didn't just stop in Buenos Aires. I could've stopped when I arrived in Argentina. But no, I decided to drive another two and a half thousand miles to the bottom of the world.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:55] Tierra Del Fuego.

Leon Logothetis: [00:13:57] Ushuaia.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:59] I haven't gotten that far yet.

Leon Logothetis: [00:14:00] Well, it's fun.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:02] Yeah, that's a name that conjures up images of, it's cold again and it's snowing in the car again.

Leon Logothetis: [00:14:07] Yes, absolutely. Literally, it's so cold that you don't know what to do with yourself.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:12] Yeah, I can imagine. And were there ever times -- I know you're making a TV show -- but are you ever like bored in the car going, "All right. Eight and a half more hours until the next kind of non-gas-station-only town"?

Leon Logothetis: [00:14:24] You know what, I always have the cameraman in the car. So I'm not really bored because we're talking. Sometimes we're filming, sometimes we just like having conversations about life. Sometimes we're making funny jokes. Sometimes we're crying, sometimes we're laughing. That should be a show in itself to me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:41] I would imagine. I wasn't sure if you just had cameras stitched up in the car and then they're following you in like an RV.

Leon Logothetis: [00:14:48] No, they have a van. But we have cameras in the car but also have the cameraman.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:52] All right, so you're not totally --

Leon Logothetis: [00:14:53] No.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:54] Because I would think but he's, of course, got like probably hand warmers and some nice gloves and he's like, yeah, it's no one in the car. You should've got some gloves, man. Maybe in the next town, you can beg someone and they'll give you some gloves.

Leon Logothetis: [00:15:06] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:06] Because the crew didn't sign up for the whole, "Hey, I'm not going to have any money thing." Like they're probably like, "Hey, we're hungry. We're going to stop at this diner. You want to just sit here and wait for us? You want to get out and stretch your legs a bit?" I mean, you --

Leon Logothetis: [00:15:18] Basically, they're all making fun of me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:19] Yeah. I would imagine. It's the only show where I think I'd probably rather be the cameraman than the lead.

Leon Logothetis: [00:15:27] But you know what? I get to connect with people.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:30] That's true.

Leon Logothetis: [00:15:30] I get to have like these amazing moments. I get to open my heart. I get to connect with other human beings from the heart and that's a beautiful thing. That's life changing, truly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:45] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Leon Logothetis. We'll be right back.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:50] This episode is sponsored in part by DesignCrowd. Crowdsourcing is how busy people in businesses get stuff done in the 21st century. Thanks to DesignCrowd, you can focus on running your business while you hand over the reins for your company's logo, web design, t-shirt -- you name it -- to a pool of over 670,000 professional designers around the world. DesignCrowd crowdsources custom work based on your specs. So basically, it's pretty simple. You go to designcrowd.com/jordan. You post a little brief about the art that you need and then DesignCrowd invites over 670,000 designers from Sydney to San Francisco to respond to your brief. And within a few hours, you get some spec designs. Over the course of three to 10 days, a typical project will get 60, 100, maybe even more different pieces from designers around the world. And then you pick the one you like best and you approve the payment to the designer. And I know some people don't really love this, they feel like it's exploited. You are still paying for the work. It's just that people are kind of auditioning for work. They're showing you what they can do, they're giving your ideas, and you pick the person you think comes closest. I think it's a great idea and, of course, if you don't like any of the submitted designs, DesignCrowd offers a money-back guarantee. Jason.

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Jason DeFillippo: [00:18:25] Don't forget we have a worksheet for today's episode so you can make sure you solidify your understanding of the key takeaways from Leon Logothetis. That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast. And thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Subscribing to the show is absolutely free. It just means that you get all of the latest episodes in your podcast player as they're released, so you don't miss a single thing from the show. And now back to our show with Leon Logothetis.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:03] A lot of your experiences are really cool and I've got some ideas here that I want to discuss, but are people more or less kind than you expected as a whole?

Leon Logothetis: [00:19:11] So when I first started my journeys, people were saying to me, "Have you lost your mind?" And clearly, I have.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:16] Well before the show started.

Leon Logothetis: [00:19:19] Well before, and they would say to me, "You're never going to be able to find your way across the world on kindness." I was like, "All right, well, let's see." In the back of my mind, I was like, maybe they're right. But the more people that I met, the more I realize that kindness is part of who we are. It's like in our DNA. And as long as you come from your heart and the other person feels safe, they open up to you. So I thought it was going to be more difficult. But slowly, slowly I started to realize, this is not so bad.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:47] There were some people in the trailer where I was like, "Wow, this guy's a real dick." There was a guy wearing aviators and he was like, "Get out to here, you're always asking me this dumb crap." I mean, half of it's bleeped out. I saw some guy hit in the face of the map or something in a van, or maybe it wasn't a map.

Leon Logothetis: [00:20:06] I don't remember.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:06] It was like he opened up a sliding door. It's in the trailer. Just one real quick thing. And he's basically swatting you away from him. There had been a lot of that.

Leon Logothetis: [00:20:13] There were, and the most difficult part of the whole journey was being rejected. So every day I'm going up to people and asking them for help. And every day, they're saying no, but you find that one magical human being that says yes, and then you get to fully be present for them and they get to fully be present for you. And it's a beautiful thing. So I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:38] Yeah. One thing that surprised me -- and I don't know why it surprised me because it totally makes sense -- is it a lot of the kindest people were the people that had very, very little. One couple, they couldn't even afford to go to their own son's wedding. That was really sad. And the homeless guy in Season One who was like, "Well, I can't invite you to my house because I don't have a house." And then you ended up sleeping on the street with him and you must just get blown away sometimes by stuff like that. Like some guy who's got a six-bedroom house like, "Nah, I don't have any room for you." And some guy who's literally sleeping in a corner between two buildings to protect themselves from the wind and the leaves and the rain is like, "I have a blanket and you can sleep on this concrete slab with me at night in public," essentially. It's just amazing.

Leon Logothetis: [00:21:26] Do you know that moment with Tony in Pittsburgh changed me because I ended up sleeping on the streets of Pittsburgh with him and he showed me that kindness is free. It doesn't matter how much money you have, it doesn't matter how much money you don't have. Every one of us can be kind. We get to choose. It made me realize also that true wealth isn't in our wallets. It's in our hearts. If a homeless man can be kind, then we have no excuse.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:02] Yeah, for me watching him do that, well I had two thoughts. One, I'm not nearly as nice as I thought I was. And two, are you not worried about bed bugs and things like that? Because I felt like an ass thinking this, but I was like, "Will I get in that blanket?" Probably, but in the morning I would be like, "Okay, I need to check myself." I mean, do you worry about things like this at all in the moment?

Leon Logothetis: [00:22:26] So again, it goes back to burning ships. Yeah. So at that point, I have no choice. I am either going to sleep in the streets with this guy or I had no choice. What was I going to do?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:37] Right. You're going to sleep in the streets with him or are you going to sleep on a bench with no blanks alone?

Leon Logothetis: [00:22:42] Exactly, and he was going to protect me, which he did. So in that moment, it actually becomes an easier decision to make. I'm going to do this because I have no other options. And maybe that's why people with less are more kind because they have few options. And the people that have more are like, "Ah, you know, what no, I'm not going to go down that way."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:02] Sure. Yeah. Do you think it's because they have more to lose or because they just never have had to be, maybe they've never been on that line where it's like -- somebody with a six-bedroom house, it's unlikely that I've ever had to choose between sleeping outside on a bench alone or with a homeless person. Usually, they've had it decently. Okay. Even if they're self-made, they probably were not homeless before ever.

Leon Logothetis: [00:23:27] Yeah, absolutely. And also think what it is, the more money one has, one is less connected to the community. The less you have because of your need, you're connected to the community. And when you're connected to a community you want to kind of help other people because that's what community is. But when you're sitting in a house with a wall, there's a lack of community.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:48] Because you're essentially self-reliant.

Leon Logothetis: [00:23:49] Exactly. And at the point where you, when you have less, you're relying more on people and when you rely more on people, use your heart more and you have to be more vulnerable and you have to give and you have to take. But behind a wall, you don't have to do that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:02] I love the idea of being able to do this and I'm trying to think, of course, I've been trying to think of ways that I can do this. Maybe that's a good question for you. How do you think we can allow ourselves to open up like that without essentially traveling around the world or sleeping outside and things like that? Because a lot of us want to dip our toes in kindness, we don't necessarily want to be like, "Let's be homeless tonight."

Leon Logothetis: [00:24:22] Sure, sure. I get it. So for me, many people say to me, "I can't get up. Leave my job, take the yellow motorbike and go around the world." "I can't get up from my job. Leave my kids, stop paying my mortgage, and drive a vintage yellow Beetle from Alaska to Argentina so I can't be kind." All right, okay. Well, the reality is that you don't have to do that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:44] Right. It's a logical fallacy. I think that.

Leon Logothetis: [00:24:46] All you have to do is moment to moment show up with as much kindness in your heart as you can. When you go to Starbucks, treat the barista with some respect and some dignity. When you are in Uber and an Uber driver is not being good for whatever reason, be kind. It's moment to moment. It isn't the big things. It's the little things. You do one little small thing every day and you keep on doing it and by the end of your life you will have accumulated so much kindness and you have accumulated so much connection to your heart that it will just become part of who you are. And that's really what it's all about, moment to moment. It's like going to the gym. Like many of us go to the gym and you know, we become strong, but how many of us become strong in how we show up in the world? And that's really what it's all about. Forget the yellow motorbike. Forget the yellow vintage car. It's cool, but it's got nothing to do with that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:43] I bet you never want to see that car again.

Leon Logothetis: [00:25:45] Do you know what? I don't want to see the bike again. The car kind of worked okay. It broke down quite often, but not as much as the bike.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:51] Sure. Where is the bike?

Leon Logothetis: [00:25:53] The bike is in the garage again. And the car was in my house. Not in my house.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:58] Right next to it somewhere. I mean you could probably auction off the bike or something like that. It's famous now.

Leon Logothetis: [00:26:06] Yeah it is.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:06] There's one last kindness turn out of that bike.

Leon Logothetis: [00:26:08] I can't give it away. There's something --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:12] Sentimental?

Leon Logothetis: [00:26:12] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:13] Yeah. I suppose you could give it to your future kid and be like, "It's your pile of scrap now, man. You know it's famous." How do you persuade people to give you a place to stay and something to eat? Yeah. Okay. You begged for it, but what else is really going on? I mean you'd have to have some sort of persuasion skills that you've honed over the last few months.

Leon Logothetis: [00:26:32] Basically, I simply come from my heart and I connect to their heart. I joke around a little bit as well and there's the aspect of adventure, but at base is just connecting with another human being. Once you connect with that other human being, magic happens. People say to me, "Oh, it was easy because you had a camera."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:52] Yeah. People do wonder that.

Leon Logothetis: [00:26:54] Yeah. Well, okay, but if you're not genuine and you're not authentic and you're not connecting with the other person, they're going to be like, "I'm not going to help you. Why on earth would I let you into my house? Just because you have a camera." You have to come from the place of your heart.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:08] How do you get there? If I walk outside right now, I don't know if I could just connect with my heart with someone else on a snap. I'd have to learn how to do that because maybe I don't operate that way by default.

Leon Logothetis: [00:27:19] What does it feel when someone is kind to you?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:23] Yeah, it's nice. It makes me feel good.

Leon Logothetis: [00:27:24] What does it feel when someone is mean to you?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:28] Yeah, it makes me want to do the same thing, honestly. Or it's repellent.

Leon Logothetis: [00:27:32] Okay. So always remember and feel how it feels like when someone is kind and take that feeling and spread it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:40] I know what you mean. I think about this a lot, especially when I'm in a bad mood because I realize, "Oh, I'm just kind of being a virus right now." I walk into Starbucks, the barista was in a good mood and now she's in a less good mood because she's like, "That guy." And of course, you see how people respond to you when you're really upbeat. The caffeine is already kicked in. You walk outside. You just want to high five everybody on the road and then someone honks at you and says, "Move prick." And you're like, "Oh, okay." So you do ride the wave -- if you're aware you do ride that wave. Do you find yourself having to get into that mode though? Because I would imagine 10 hours in the car. You're freezing, your hands are about to fall off. You can't feel your left leg. You're freaking hungry. And 18 people have been like, "Buzz off jerk," and you still got to bring it.

Leon Logothetis: [00:28:27] You know again, it's like a commitment. You make a commitment to show up in a certain way. No one's perfect. I'm not perfect. There are times when I've been mean, believe it or not.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:38] Those are all edited out, right?

Leon Logothetis: [00:28:41] But I remember the kid, once said to me, I gave a speech and the kid puts his hand up and says, "Mr. Leon, have you ever been mean?" I was like, "Oh my God, this is where I lie to the child." I was like, "You're not going to lie." And I was like, "Look, of course, I've been me because I'm just like you. I'm a human being. I make mistakes. I'm not perfect." So when you go out into the world, again, it goes back to that like how you show up moment to moment. You make a commitment. This is how I'm going to be. And there are times when, yeah, like my first reaction is like, "Man, that guy was a dick. I'm going to be a dick." Well, my second reaction is like, "Oh, A, you're the kindness guy."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:22] Yeah, no pressure.

Leon Logothetis: [00:29:24] No pressure. "And B, no, you're not going to be a dick. You're going to show up with some kindness in your heart." And that's what I do 99 percent of the time. There are times when I don't but again, it goes back to that commitment. Like you're committed to do this and to inspire as many people as you can. I'm committed to show up in my life with a camera, without a camera, with my heart as open as I can. And that's really what it's about. If you're committed, nothing will stop you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:56] Sure. Yeah. I agree with that. I'm less into the inspiration thing and more into the teachable practical skill thing. I feel like inspiration is actually really cheap these days and I'm happy when people do it, but I feel like there's, there needs to be more to it than just inspiring people. It's important, but it's not like the end because I think it's too easy to get inspired on Instagram for a second and then go back to all the problems that you have not yet solved in your life. And so what I appreciate about the show is not only is it inspirational, but it also shows you that all of these excuses you have for not really being nice in some situation or not being kind or all the judgment you had about people that live in rural Alaska or are homeless on the street, you really don't have the complete picture. Because you're not just talking with people who live in suburban Michigan and are like, "Sure, come stay at my house whenever." You're picking -- I would imagine by design -- some pretty tough targets. You know, I'm in Kosovo and I'm going to walk around on the street. Turns out to be a pretty friendly place. You could have just stayed in the UK and France and Germany and like kind of avoided all the places that have made the news in the last 20 years but you didn't do that.

Leon Logothetis: [00:31:06] Yeah, because ultimately one of the things I learned in my journeys is that we're all the same. It doesn't matter what color you are. It doesn't matter how much money you have, how much money you don't have. It doesn't matter if you live in a Western country or in a third-world country. Base, we just want to be seen, we just want to be loved, we just want to be heard. And again, it goes back to that point of connecting with someone from your heart and to their heart. You must have -- how on earth do you connect with everyone so quickly? What's your trick?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:40] Editing.

Leon Logothetis: [00:31:42] That's true. But really what it is, is you find something that you have in common with them. And if you say, "Oh, I don't have something in common with them." You can find something.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:54] How do you do that? How does that process look?

Leon Logothetis: [00:31:57] Do you like sports?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:58] No.

Leon Logothetis: [00:31:59] Okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:01] Not at all.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:02] Do you like traveling?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:03] Of course, yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:04] Okay. Where's the most inspiring place you've ever been to?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:06] I actually really liked Kosovo, which is why. That was one of my favorite places.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:08] So you've been to Kosovo.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:09] Yes.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:09] Okay, great. What was your experience in Kosovo?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:11] So I was walking through, I walked from Kosovo to Sarajevo. Literally walked or traveled on something equivalent to walking like a bicycle or whatever through -- It's been a while. Where did I go from Kosovo, Albania, I believe, and then from Albania to Montenegro.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:31] Okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:31] And then Montenegro -- Oh wait, sorry. Montenegro to Kosovo to Albania.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:35] Were you ever been in Sarajevo?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:37] Yes.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:37] Okay, great. Yeah. So my experience with Sarajevo was there was magical energy. Did you experience that?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:44] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:44] There's something going on there.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:46] Yeah, there's something going on there and you can't quite tell if it's good or bad, honestly.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:50] Exactly. It's like, you know, it's like on the edge, but there's an energy there. So, you know, that's a connection that we just made just like that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:57] Sure.

Leon Logothetis: [00:32:58] You've been Sarajevo. I've been to Sarajevo. I've experienced that energy. You've experienced that energy and we could take that and run with it. So that's how you do it. I asked you first, you like sports, you're like, no. Okay. All right. Second, you like traveling? Yes. Done.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:13] Sure. Okay. I appreciate that. So you're seeking commonality, but you're not just seeking the -- what you call like the -- the textbook kind of, "Oh, I like soccer." You like soccer, done. You're trying to connect on sort of an emotional level with the people that you meet.

Leon Logothetis: [00:33:26] Absolutely. On a human level.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:28] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's more powerful because everybody can sort of share the same emotional connection as opposed to, "Yeah, I like traveling," but I've never been outside of the United States. All right. I mean you luckily have a breadth of experience, but I think people view others and think, "I don't have any of the same experiences as that person."

Leon Logothetis: [00:33:48] I'm going to be extreme here. I'd say there's a white nationalist and a Muslim. And the white nationalist has a kid and the Muslim has a kid. The white nationalist and the Muslim may not be able to think to themselves, but we have nothing in common, but if they start talking about their love for their children, done, they have a connection. And from that little connection, something magic can happen if you want it to happen.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:17] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Leon Logothetis. We'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:23] This episode is sponsored in part by NetSuite. If you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business. But the problem growing businesses have that keeps them from knowing their numbers is a hodgepodge of business systems. They have one system for accounting and other for sales and other for inventory and so on. It's just a huge inefficient mess. It takes up way too much time. It takes up way too many resources. Of course, that hurts the bottom line. So you've got NetSuite here by Oracle. It's a business management software that handles every aspect of your business in an easy to use cloud platform. It gives you visibility, gives you dashboards, gives you the control that you need to grow. And with NetSuite, you save time, money, and a lot of unneeded headaches by managing sales, finance, accounting, orders, HR, all instantly from your desktop or from your phone. It's one of those software products where when you see it, you go, "Wait, this is how did this not exist before? Every business kind of needs this central dashboard and that's why NetSuite is the world's number one cloud business system. Jason.

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Jason DeFillippo: [00:37:47] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. And don't forget the worksheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast and if you're listening to the show on the Overcast player for iOS, please click that little star next to the episode. It really helps us out. Now for the conclusion of our show with Leon Logothetis.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:15] Do you ever feel bad asking people for free stuff all the time? I feel like that would I feel a little guilty being like, "Hey, I need free food right now."

Leon Logothetis: [00:38:23] Do you know? Not really, because again, I don't see it. I see it as an exchange, so they may give me a free place to stay, but I am kind of giving them my presence and they're giving me their presence. It's an energetic exchange. So the little thing of, "Okay, give me a place to stay," or, "Can I have something to eat, " is like a minor part of it. The bigger part of it, and that's what I wanted people to get from the show was, ultimately, it's an energetic exchange and that's why you can't give me money. You cannot give me money. You can just give me part of you and I will give you part of me and the food and --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:05] And gasoline.

Leon Logothetis: [00:39:06] -- and gasoline. Yes. "Please give me some gas."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:09] Was it easier to crash with people in America versus Europe or Asia?

Leon Logothetis: [00:39:14] No, this is pretty, pretty, pretty simple -- not simple. I mean most people would say no, but it was kind of the same process everywhere you went except in America, they spoke English and in Asia. And South America, they didn't.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:25] Sure. I wondered if there was maybe a continent where it was like, "Wow, people are just not into having me crash with them here." Or, "Wow. Everyone says yes here."

Leon Logothetis: [00:39:33] Do you know? In Canada, literally, everyone said yes. I mean to the point where we got to a point in the show, we were like, they were all saying yes, we have to ask them to say no because it's too easy. So you know, I would be like -- they say, "Yes, you can say in the house." I'd be like, "Well you know -- "

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:52] Pushed back a little? This guy had a 300-year-old house. His family had lived in there for 300 years. They had built the house and he'd had like World War I refugees. I don't even know. Probably prior to that, probably a million wars prior to that refugees, and people stayed in the house for like 30 years. Families grew up in the house that weren't related to him, and then they would move out and then there would be another war and he'd taken some refuge. Where was that?

Leon Logothetis: [00:40:16] Trieste in Italy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:18] That was incredible.

Leon Logothetis: [00:40:19] That was amazing. And I remember that was so funny. I was completely lost. I met some random guy who called up, his friend said, "Do you mind if he comes and stays with you?" He's like, "Yes, sure." He gives me a little map. I follow this map. I get completely lost in the middle of the night. I stopped this guy, random guy, and I say --

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:37] In the car?

Leon Logothetis: [00:40:38] Yeah, in the car. And I literally say, "Do you know Filipo?" as a joke. And he's like, "Yeah." I was like, "Whoa." He's like, "Yeah, I know Filipo." I was like, "What?" He said, "Yeah." He's said, "He lives over there," and I went to hug him and he was like, "What?" And he pushed me away. It was just so funny. That happened. I was in a field, totally lost and this guy knew the guy was going to see. How does that happen?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:02] Yeah. You're in the middle of nowhere. I guess it's a numbers game with that.

Leon Logothetis: [00:41:05] Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:06] That's incredible. Yeah. You finally found them at night and then, of course, the trick is does this guy actually know that I'm coming or was it just a note scribbled? Like did that text message go through?

Leon Logothetis: [00:41:15] Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:16] Is this guy going to come out with a rifle?

Leon Logothetis: [00:41:17] Luckily, he knew I was going.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:19] Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. There was also this Montenegrin family that I think had lived on the same land for literally a thousand years, which just for me is -- I can't even imagine knowing that your family had had that land for that long. I don't even think I've lived in the same place for more than a decade and changed. Even the house I grew up, I can sort of go, yeah, I was there for 12 years.

Leon Logothetis: [00:41:42] There's so much history. That's another thing that I love, like connecting with history, and also when you connect with a human, you're connecting with their history. And I ended up giving that champ a cow.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:56] Oh, right, you bought him a cow.

Leon Logothetis: [00:41:58] That was like a big deal though. It was a very big deal. You only had one cow and I gave him another one.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:03] Yeah. You doubled his business, basically.

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:04] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:05] Went from subsistence farming to full profitability.

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:09] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:10] Overnight.

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:10] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:11] Yeah. It's like giving somebody a factory or something like that. What do you think is the most unique place that you stayed in?

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:18] In the back of Kindness 2? Next to a volcano in Ecuador that had erupted a few years before, which was very beautiful and a little bit chilly. But that was kind of cool. And I remember the family that came out because of the fact that I was living near the house. They came out and said, "Hey, do you want to come and stay with us?" And I was like, "No, thank you so much. I actually really want to sleep in Kindness 2 right now." I also tried to sleep on a beach which was filled with crocodiles.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:45] Oh, man.

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:46] I didn't see the crocodiles.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:47] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:47] But there was a sign saying beware of the crocodiles, but I was like, "I'll be all right."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:52] "If they were here, I'd see it."

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:53] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:53] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:42:53] And I was like lying on the beach and then I started, maybe I heard things, maybe my mind was telling me things, but I started like hearing crocodile noises and I was like, you know what, enough. So I left and slept in the back of Kindness 2 again.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:05] That could have been a shortened season.

Leon Logothetis: [00:43:09] That could've been like Season Two ends in Episode Six because Leon gets eaten by a crocodile.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:15] Oh, that's terrifying. Geez. What's the sketchiest place you've stayed then? On that beach with crocodiles, probably.

Leon Logothetis: [00:43:20] Pretty much. I would say probably most probably sleeping on the streets of Pittsburgh. I mean, I'd been told don't go to this park at night and I went to the park because I'm not very clever. And then I ended up sleeping on the streets with this guy. So that probably wasn't very clever, but I did anyway.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:40] Yeah. Yeah, that, that would have made me nervous, bedbugs and who knows what else along with other things. Were there any people that got a little sketchy after you stayed with them? Like I'm thinking there's got to be some lady that's like, "I'm getting laid tonight for sure. This guy is in my house." Or, somebody who's just like, "Hey, I'm sharpening my knife collection. Why don't you come in here and see?" And you're just thinking, "Why do you have all these power tools in the kitchen?" You know, something weird like that.

Leon Logothetis: [00:44:03] Do you know? Pretty much no, because I use my intuition. My intuition tells me this is a safe person or this is not a safe person. And if they're not safe, I won't do it. For example, I met this guy in a bar and he says to me, "It's just going to be me and you. I'm in the desert. There's no phone, there's no way to communicate with anyone and the crew cannot come." I was like, "Thank so much for your kindness, but I think I'm not going to stay with you tonight." It just didn't feel right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:36] Yeah. Why can't the crew come?

Leon Logothetis: [00:44:38] Well, exactly. Because maybe he was sharpening his knives ready for the final act.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:42] Where does the crew stay?

Leon Logothetis: [00:44:43] In hotels.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:43] Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay, so they're not necessarily like right outside while you're sleeping on the street.

Leon Logothetis: [00:44:49] No, absolutely not. They filmed me sleeping on the street and about nine-ish, they left and they came back at 8:00 a.m. in the morning.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:55] Hoping you were still --

Leon Logothetis: [00:44:56] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:57] -- alive.

Leon Logothetis: [00:44:57] And I was, I was there with that guy by myself.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:02] Yeah. I feel like that would be different because my estimation was they're like parked in an RV on the road watching him sleep and they've got a camera trained down them just in case anything exciting happens. No, they're at a motel, they're at Howard Johnson.

Leon Logothetis: [00:45:18] Absolutely.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:18] Hoping that you're in one piece in the morning when they come back.

Leon Logothetis: [00:45:20] They come back and they're like, "Oh thank you."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:23] Good, good. We can renew the season. He's still alive. You do turns of kindness for others as well. And I'd like to talk about that because when people help you, you help them back in a big way. Like the homeless guy you had got him a house and enrolled him in school, which I thought was amazing. And it must be real, it must feel great to do that because a lot of times people help me and I'm like, "Here's a dollar for your tip jar. And that's kind of all I got." But you get a chance to go, "I'm going to help this person out in a big way. I'm going to buy them a cow," which is like a huge life-changing purchase for them. Or this guy had been, he wasn't homeless because he was like a drug-addicted mess. I mean, his wife had kicked him out and he couldn't afford to live anywhere else.

Leon Logothetis: [00:46:08] Do you know? It is a beautiful thing to be able to give back. And part of the reason why I love giving back is because there were people in my life that gave back to me. And the beauty of being able to share your heart with another human being is profound. So yes, that's one of my favorite moments. For example, in Season Two I used to have a dog called Winston Churchill and I called him Winnie and I met this lady in Ecuador that spent all of her life because she couldn't have kids giving love to stray dogs and we had this beautiful bond and beautiful connection and I was able to help her save a hundred dogs.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:49] Wow.

Leon Logothetis: [00:46:49] So it's not just about all these massive things like, "Oh, let's put someone up in an apartment." It's about enabling another human being to live their dream and to like give them an opportunity to do what they love to do. And that was such a beautiful moment and giving gifts is beautiful. And that's my favorite part.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:09] Yeah. I think that would be incredible. I wondered if there were any people -- my producer actually asked this question -- are there any people you go back to where you didn't get a chance to give them something in the moment for the show? But you're like, "Man, this person really stuck in my head. I kind of want to make sure that this person gets something."

Leon Logothetis: [00:47:23] So there is actually a chap in Season Two, Episode 10, who is a Spanish speaking guy who didn't speak very good English and he had an amazing heart. He let me stay in his house. He had nothing. He was a fisherman and I didn't understand what he was saying when we were actually doing the filming because I didn't speak Spanish afterwards when we were in the editing booth and people started seeing the show, people would send me messages and be like, "Why didn't you help him?" I've got some hate mail. I must tell you like, "Why didn't you help Christopher? What's wrong with you?" And I was like, "Look, guys, I didn't understand what he was saying and now I understand what he's saying to me." So we're actually working with Christopher to help him and because now we have a translator.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:07] What was he saying?

Leon Logothetis: [00:48:09] He was saying things like, "Thank you so much for coming to my house. Thank you so much for taking the time to see me. Thank you so much for being so kind. All this kind of stuff." And he was saying, "Many people who have money never see me. They just walk past me as if I don't exist." And you didn't do that. And I had no idea what the guy was saying. I knew he was crying, but I didn't know what he was saying.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:33] Oh, that must've been mildly awkward I guess.

Leon Logothetis: [00:48:34] Yeah, it was awkward, but it was, it was also very beautiful. So we're going to be helping him, so partly the reason that is sort of the hate mail stop.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:45] Stop writing to me and telling me about it.

Leon Logothetis: [00:48:47] Exactly, exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:48] My producer loved the spot about when you reunited with this old teacher friend. Was this the teacher that was originally kind to you?

Leon Logothetis: [00:48:53] No, she was another one.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:55] Okay. And are you still in touch with her? I know you built a school for her or something like this.

Leon Logothetis: [00:49:00] So in the early 2000s, I ended up going to Peru and I was working in an orphanage. And I met this lady called Duska and Duska had a beautiful presence about her. You know, when you meet someone who really comes from their heart, it's really kind of like fully present for you. And she helped me feel there was another way to live. She was one of the first people that did that. So 20 years later I wanted to help her. So I told her that we were doing a Kindness documentary and that a production team was coming to her school. She didn't know that I was coming to. So I surprised her after 20 years.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:37] Wow.

Leon Logothetis: [00:49:38] And saw what she was doing with the school. I ended up staying in her house and I was able to give something back to her. We ended up building a second floor for school. But have you ever had someone that's truly touched your life in a profound way?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:53] I'm sure that I have and I'm trying to think of who those people would be. There's probably a lot actually. Yeah. And of course, there are some easy ones like the family I stayed with when I was an exchange student and things like that. Those are like low hanging fruit, easy ones. I'm sure there are more at where it was just kind of a random one-off thing and it's like still with me, I live with them for a year. So, those are the obvious ones.

Leon Logothetis: [00:50:16] Yeah. But you know, you had that experience, you had that like witness, you had that love, you had that heart-opening that really shifted you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:23] Sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's life-changing indeed. So your crew travels with you, they're not in RV. They stay in hotels. Are they carrying food and water and stuff and like you just -- there's got to be something where you're like, "I'm thirsty, I'm dying," and they're like, "Fine, here's a bottle of water."

Leon Logothetis: [00:50:37] The truth is they never helped me but look clearly, if I'm like in the desert and I'm dehydrated and I say, "Guys, I'm going to die." They're like, "Oh, that's fine. Here." The majority of the time there is no help. But like for example, in Season Two, I crashed the car. I cut my finger. How I cut my finger I don't know, but the cameraman helps me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:02] Sure. I mean that's reasonable.

Leon Logothetis: [00:51:04] Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:04] It's like, "Okay, we're not going to make you bleed out on the street."

Leon Logothetis: [00:51:08] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:08] "I'm going to put a Band-Aid." Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that stuff, I don't feel like that's cheating, but of course in the back of my mind I'm like, "Tell me he didn't get like a cliff bar from that guy at one point." You know, like, do I want that right now? Or like, "Hey, we couldn't find any dinner for you tonight." "Fine." Or like, "Hey, it's pretty cold in here. Why don't you come sleep in the hotel?" "All right, fine." None of that, huh?

Leon Logothetis: [00:51:29] None.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:30] That's you though, right? You're like, "No, I'm going to--"

Leon Logothetis: [00:51:33] What's the point of going on this journey and not doing it properly?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:36] Yeah, I agree.

Leon Logothetis: [00:51:37] You do it. Do you know how tempting it is? It is also tempting to give up.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:42] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:51:43] The amount of times I was like, "You know what? Why am I doing this to myself?" Like I think on the third crash in Alaska, maybe it was in Canada, I was like, it was just literally me and the cameraman because there were some problems with the crew and the crew hadn't come with us. We were in the middle of nowhere and it was absolutely freezing and there were no people and I was saying to myself and to the cameraman, "Why are you doing this? Why are we doing this again? What is wrong with us?" And the answer that always comes back is because people are going to watch the show. People are going to be inspired, people are going to change their lives, and change other people's lives. Keep going. "Okay, fine, whatever, just keep going."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:20] Yeah. There must be times when you're like, "We could pretend that we did this, but meanwhile this is really a car with heat. We can do a couple of shots in the car and we can get in the escalate and we can travel 3000 miles and get towed this POS behind us."

Leon Logothetis: [00:52:33] Yes. And then we wouldn't have the experience.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:34] Right. That's true.

Leon Logothetis: [00:52:36] So I wouldn't be able to live the greatest life that I want to live and I wouldn't be able to share it with you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:41] Right. Yeah. I love that. I like doing things the hard way myself, but there are many times where you just go, "What's the ROI on doing this the hard way when nobody's watching. Oh right. Okay, fine."

Leon Logothetis: [00:52:53] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:53] I love that you ditched out on that ticket in France because you're like, "Come find me ." What kind of plates you have on the motorcycle and the car.

Leon Logothetis: [00:53:00] It was an American plate.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:02] Okay.

Leon Logothetis: [00:53:02] I remember that. I was in Aix-en-Provence and I got a ticket. I'd stayed with some musicians. The next morning, I go and get this ticket. It's like 150 euros. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, "You know, what I'm not paying this clearly because I got any money." So if the French army wants to come and find me, they can. I think they're still looking for me. Yeah, exactly this. I keep looking over my shoulder.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:24] Are there any sketchy border crossings? And I noticed you don't film those probably because you're not allowed to. But I would imagine some of these like Central Asia type places, it's like, "Are we getting through here?"

Leon Logothetis: [00:53:35] There were a lot of sketchy border crossings. I mean there's a lot of like -- I don't know if I should admit this, but I'm going to -- there's a lot of times where we crossed the border and we don't tell them what we're doing. So they say to us, "Why are you here?" We're like, "Well we're just tourists." And they're like, "Oh okay."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:57] Right, because if you say TV show --

Leon Logothetis: [00:53:59] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:59] Here's a book of paper to file.

Leon Logothetis: [00:54:00] Exactly. So we just, we just keep on going and see what happens. And so far, touch wood, it worked, but clearly not going to work anymore if any East Asian border guards are watching this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:11] That's right.

Leon Logothetis: [00:54:12] They're going to come after me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:13] This show is really popular with the edge border service. Yeah. I think you're probably safe. Although who knows, I don't know.

Leon Logothetis: [00:54:20] But we've had so many amazing border crossing experiences. It's just crazy. This is madness. Like in a totally different world.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:27] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [00:54:27] Literally. It's not like go to Starbucks and like, you know, "Can I have a coffee?" There's so much logistics. There's so much bureaucracy. You could literally be sitting there for days.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:38] Because a lot of these border crossings, they don't get overland travelers that aren't local.

Leon Logothetis: [00:54:43] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:43] You know, they might get a truck going from Tajikistan through Kyrgyzstan, whatever, but they don't get a random British guy with his 7,000 passport stamps and no money and camera gear going in a POS car or motorcycle through the border. It just looks weird and they probably have never seen that. Luckily, your car is on par with a lot of the other vehicles. If they see, you know, like a 1979 Hugo or whatever, but there had to have been times where you're sitting there and you're just thinking, "Are we done here? Are we turning around?"

Leon Logothetis: [00:55:21] 100 percent. I mean, for example, I was in Vietnam and I was 90 miles from Ho Chi Minh City where we needed to get a ship to go to Canada and the guy says, "Your bike is not coming in." I was like, "Well, my bike is not coming in?" He's like, "No." So it took nine days to get the bike out. How do we do it? We went to the American Embassy. We told them what we were doing. They said, "We'll try and help you. We'll try and help you." Okay. And we ended up giving up documents for the entire car, like to get the car out of Vietnam, to get the car into Canada, to get the car into America. Everything to the guy. He gave it to his assistant and said, "Photocopy these." Half an hour later, nothing. Call from up, "Where are you? Come down." Comes down. "Where are the documents?" "I shredded them."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:12] Oh wow.

Leon Logothetis: [00:56:15] That was bad.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:16] Wow. So how did you rectify, I mean, how did that --

Leon Logothetis: [00:56:19] At that point, we were saved because now the Americans were responsible for us now getting the bike out.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:26] Oh, I see. I thought they were just going to be like, "We done F up. Sorry, bro."

Leon Logothetis: [00:56:31] No, they helped us beautifully. It got to the point that the ambassador. It was amazing.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:37] He's like, "I don't want to waste any more effing time on this. You guys are idiots. Just get his bike out. So he gets out of my stinking lobby."

Leon Logothetis: [00:56:44] Exactly. That is exactly what happened.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:46] Wow. A little incompetence goes a long way. Right?

Leon Logothetis: [00:56:49] Because I remember that moment. I was like, "Oh my God, we're finished." And then immediately I was like, "Oh my God. No, we're not. We've been saved."

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:55] Geez. Wow. I had a similar experience I think in Cambodia or Vietnam or maybe it was the crossing. I had gotten an e-visa brand new at the time. Wow, you can do this online. There are so modern. And then I took a boat on the Delta in the middle of the jungle and we stopped at this border camp where there was, I'm not even kidding, a guy selling live rats out of a cage. And I thought, what market is there for this? And there was a little kid changing money and he gave me blatantly counterfeit US currency. It was like a five-dollar bill that looked okay. But the ink was like jet black instead of green. And I thought this is worthwhile just as a souvenir, but just to buy it. And we stayed there and we stayed there and we stayed there and we're going through and we're about to get on the bus or the next transport thing. And he goes, "Oh, we don't do the e-visa here because we don't have the internet to check anything and we can give you another visa, but you have to buy it. And I thought, Oh, but I don't have an application. And they said, "Yeah, we're out of applications." "So you're out of applications. I've been here for four hours. My other choice is to go back six hours in the other direction on a boat that is not going in that direction anymore. What can I do?" And then I realized I was in a developing country and I said, "Do I really need the application?" And he goes, 'Well, it depends on what you have in your backpack." And I was like, "Got it. What would you like from my backpack? Leave me some underwear.

Leon Logothetis: [00:58:14] Did you give him the counterfeit money?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:16] No, I think he was onto that scam. He was probably --

Leon Logothetis: [00:58:18] That would have been cool.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:19] That would've been really cool.

Leon Logothetis: [00:58:20] Here's $2,000.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:21] I think I gave him like a really crappy palm pilot type of device and he was over the moon for this thing. And I thought I'll be fine without Sudoku or whatever the hell is on here. You know, I'd rather just continue with my life.

Leon Logothetis: [00:58:35] But that's the beauty of traveling, right? You got to experience all these things in everyday life. In the Western world, you don't really experience it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:42] Like corruption or bribery, counterfeiting, open market for rats.

Leon Logothetis: [00:58:48] Did you ever figure out why they were selling live rats?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:50] No, I honestly, I think that he was trapping the rats because they breed snakes. And so my theory is that they catch the snakes to eat them. And I saw some enormous, terrifying snakes in cages outside people's houses, which I guess is where you keep it. You don't want to keep it in the house. But also I guess it's better in the cage than anywhere else because these are huge snakes. I think they feed the rats to the snakes, fatten them up and eat them in the jungle there. But I could be wrong. So somebody’s catching the rats, packing them into these crates and then selling them like, "Hey, do you have a snake at home and it's hungry. Well, you don't want to let it out to catch a rat, so you're going to want to go ahead and feed it one of these." That's my theory because I'm hoping people aren't cooking them up and eating them because if they are, I for sure bought one and ate one I didn't know what it was.

Leon Logothetis: [00:59:42] That would be bad.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:59:43] Yeah. Are there any times that you thought, "Okay, we're getting killed. This is the end"?

Leon Logothetis: [00:59:52] Oh my God. Oh, we're getting killed. Do you know what in Season Two, we drove like a 400-mile stretch in Columbia where we were told specifically, "Do not go there"?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:07] Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [01:00:08] People had been kidnapped. People had been kidnapped and executed and we were like, "Well, we really don't have much choice." So we did, we traveled those 400 miles. We made a few certain decisions, like for example, we weren't going to film, we just filmed in the car. We didn't stop. We hoped that the car wouldn't break down because you never know if the car breaks down. So that was a really stressful moment. Like those 400 miles clearly do not go there. You have a 50 percent chance of being kidnapped. Okay and we went because we're very clever.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:45] Right, right, exactly. You know, my producer asked that too. Producer Jason was like, "Wait, you decided not to go through Mexico and then you flew the crew to Costa Rica where you then went through this really sketchy 400-kilometer stretch of Columbia, Central America."

Leon Logothetis: [01:01:03] All brains told us that 2000 miles in Mexico, Honduras, and El Salvador were too much.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:11] That's for sure the case. Yeah.

Leon Logothetis: [01:01:13] And 350 to 400 miles in Colombia, maybe we could do it because we didn't have to stop. We will keep going. We knew that if we had to do these 2000 miles, we would have to keep stopping. This way, we just kept going.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:27] Right. You would have had four days of dangerous territory instead of just like one butt hole clenching day.

Leon Logothetis: [01:01:33] Exactly, exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:35] I can imagine. So how do you keep your cool in that situation? Were you nervous the entire time?

Leon Logothetis: [01:01:40] You have no choice but to stay calm so you keep going. You stay calm and also people like the crew and people are looking to me because I've traveled a lot to stay calm. If I flip out, everyone's going to flip out. So I'm like flipping out inside. But on the outside I'm like --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:01:57] Yeah, we're fine. Zen.

Leon Logothetis: [01:01:59] It's all good. Yeah, it's all good.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:00] Downward dog everybody.

Leon Logothetis: [01:02:01] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:02] Yeah. Do you think you've honed your sixth sense for people as a result of this trip or do you think you had it unlocked beforehand?

Leon Logothetis: [01:02:09] I think this was like maybe the final piece in the jigsaw to hone that sixth sense. It takes a period of time to have all these experiences and meet people and kind of learn to live with your intuition. But I've definitely honed it. Is there more to go? Yes. Do I make mistakes? Yes. Like you said, editing, there were moments where I talk to people and they're completely the wrong type of person. It's like A, they would never get to help you, B, they don't want to be on camera, C, why are you pissing them off. And I picked them. Yeah. So I make mistakes, but often I don't.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:02:42] What's your favorite place that you've been so far? I mean, I personally loved, you know, Sarajevo. I went through that tunnel that you went through where they were sneaking people through. That's a heavy trend and the family kind of owns that plot of land and they'd talk about -- I remember hanging out in Bosnia and meeting guys my own age and younger that had been in concentration camps and had like hand tattoos and stuff and just going like, "Oh what's that tattoo mean?" And they're like, "This is the dots you get when your whole family is rounded up when you're nine or 10 and thrown in this barbed wire prison camp." And I thought, "Wow, did we grow up differently." At that age, I was in Boy Scouts. The toughest thing I ever did was probably crapping in an outhouse. You know where latrine that I had to dig myself or something. And this guy was like, "Are we going to get executed in this prison camp?" I remember one guy told me, "I can see my school from this place," and I just thought like, can you imagine being in a barbwire camp where you can see your house, see your school, see where you grew up, and you're wondering if you're going to get out of there and your parents are with you, your little sisters with you. Just absolutely intense.

Leon Logothetis: [01:03:50] You know that place in Sarajevo really was life-changing. I've also been to the killing fields. I've been to Auschwitz and you go to the -- have you been to Auschwitz?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:04:00] I have and the killing fields as well. The killing fields were especially raw. Because it's not like, here's a display case in a photo. They have that, but you'll be walking in, you'll go, Oh my God, there's a jaw bone with teeth in the ground. I just stepped on that. There's fabric coming out, which is for sure this person's clothing and they're just everywhere. You can't clean it up. It's just there are too many bones and teeth and bodies in this place and it's just, it's very much a developing world kind of -- I don't want to say tourist attraction but I guess that's kind of what it is. They just did not make the effort to go -- or it's impossible to just really make it a somber memorial. It's just still kind of what would happen if you left thousands and thousands of bodies in one place at the same time.

Leon Logothetis: [01:04:48] Did you ever go to the killing field where they had the killing tree?

Jordan Harbinger: [01:04:52] Yes. That was really gross. Do you want to tell us what that is?

Leon Logothetis: [01:04:56] Basically the killing tree is the tree where they would take the mothers and the children and they would kill the children by smashing them against the tree and watch and let the mothers watch and then kill the mothers. I mean, you know --

Jordan Harbinger: [01:05:13] Yeah. It makes you --

Leon Logothetis: [01:05:15] There are no words.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:05:16] It's the opposite of everything that your show stands for in so many ways. I mean, just understatement of the year, right? It's just so incomprehensibly cruel and disgusting and it expands your mind for what humanity's capable of in the, in like the wrongest way possible in my opinion.

Leon Logothetis: [01:05:35] And sometimes because we do that in the show, we show the darkness and we show the light because to truly understand the light, you have to truly understand the darkness. If we just showed the light, you wouldn't fully get it because as human beings we have the capacity for both. We have the capacity to be dark and we have the capacity to be light and you have to understand them both.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:05:59] That's an interesting editorial choice because I think it would have been really easy and quite frankly, probably simpler to go, "You know what, let's just go to places where everybody's nice. If anything weird happens, edited out because it's going to be kind of a downer." Is that your decision?

Leon Logothetis: [01:06:13] Yes.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:14] Yeah. And you did that because you wanted to highlight the light.

Leon Logothetis: [01:06:16] I did that because as humans we have dark and light. And if I just show you the light, there's going to be a part of you, maybe unconsciously there's going to be like, "What the hell is this about? This isn't real. But if I show you the dark and the light, it kind of feels more real because it is real.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:37] Because you can plug it into your own experience.

Leon Logothetis: [01:06:39] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:06:39] Yeah. Yeah. I know you've met some pretty incredible people too. Like this one that I saw yesterday was this Turkish adventurer. Well, first of all, you met some random guys, like used to be my cousin. It turns out he's like the youngest guy to have climbed all seven continents highest summits, and youngest guy and the only Muslim who has climbed Everest and he did it like twice in his twenties. And you just come across the most incredible people. Do you think that's a function of those people being a little bit more open to weird stuff like taking a stranger home and a camera crew for that matter?

Leon Logothetis: [01:07:14] I think what it is, is that they just open. So if I'm walking down the street and I feel someone's closed, they're not going to talk to them because it's probably not going to work. But if I feel someone is a little bit open or fully open, then I'll start talking to them. And then you get into their lives and you meet their hearts and you meet who they are and they have amazing stories. Everyone has an amazing story. If you shouldn't talk to someone, anyone, whoever it may be has an amazing story. And that's why the show does so well as well because it's like an amazing story which people can relate to as well. They may think all my life is boring, or whatever. You sit down with someone for 15 minutes, I guarantee if you connect with them, you will hear something fantastic.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:07:58] How do you start the conversations? You know, logistically like from a tactical perspective. Are you just going, "Hey"? I mean, how does it work?

Leon Logothetis: [01:08:07] Depends on the person.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:08:08] Sure.

Leon Logothetis: [01:08:09] So for example, sometimes I don't have the car with me, meaning like I've parked it and I'm walking. It's just me. If I have the car and someone's walking past me, maybe I'll talk about the car. So do you want to hear an amazing story? And some will say no. Some will say yes and then I'll tell them about the car and it's over. Sometimes I've got someone and crack a joke. It really depends on the moment. It depends on the person. It depends on the level of connection I feel like I can get with them. You never know what's going to happen. For example, the guy in Season Two, Episode One John, the guy who was a Christian and really clearly relied on his faith. We connected, he was in his car and I just looked at him and there was something there. I walked off a little bit, came back, he got out of his car, looked at him and again he had like seven dogs. That was it. It was done.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:09:01] Yeah. So he has a lot of dogs.

Leon Logothetis: [01:09:02] It was really feeling, the dogs, done.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:09:06] Yeah. Somebody with seven dogs is probably, he's got a kind heart.

Leon Logothetis: [01:09:10] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:09:11] Otherwise you'd never put up with that many dogs. Have you noticed from country to country differences in things like psychological space? Like how close do you get to someone before you start a conversation?

Leon Logothetis: [01:09:20] Absolutely, that's a very good point. So for example, I'm very careful with how far where I stand from someone, specifically someone I don't know. So I will never make them feel threatened by coming too close. I'll always stand a little bit further back from where I should be standing. And as we started connecting, I started getting closer. Clearly not super close, but close to the point where it's okay to be in that space. So all these little things. It's not just, it's not just words, it's not just heart, it's body language, it's energy, it's so many different things.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:09:52] So you find that out though, I guess probably trial and error once you get into a new culture.

Leon Logothetis: [01:09:57] Exactly. Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:09:58] Have you noticed any sort of pattern? Like in America you can be here, but then as we go eastward, it's like you got to be this much further away or this much closer.

Leon Logothetis: [01:10:05] Well, for example, let's say I'm in a more Muslim country, I have to be a little bit more careful going up to the women. Because you know, it's not okay to do that. So I'll go up to the men. In America, it's okay. I can go up to the man, I can go up to the women, I can go up to whoever I want. If they say no, that's fine. So each culture has its different foibles, let's say. Well, you have to kind of determine, "Okay, do this, do that. No. Yes. Maybe." Also bear in mind the language barrier. So the first thing I have to do is say, "Do you speak English?" And they all say no. And then finally someone says yes. And it's like, "Oh, thank you, thank you." And we go from there.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:10:42] What sort of the biggest flub that you've ever -- like I assume at some point -- you probably already knew you can approach women when you're driving across a Muslim country, but what other sorts of flubs or foibles have you found where you go, "Wow, that's pretty surprising. I had no idea. Like, Oh, I didn't know the amount of eye contact I was making in Asia is rude"? That kind of little subtlety.

Leon Logothetis: [01:11:03] I've traveled a lot and the countries that I've been to I pretty much had traveled to before. So I kind of knew how to act. It doesn't mean I always got it right because I didn't. I kind of knew how to behave.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:11:20] That makes sense. And you learn that initially and then got to, got to redo it on camera. What have you edited out where you're like, "I kind of wanted to leave that in but it's really bad or it's really too much or this person wouldn't give us permission but damn, I wanted that in the show"?

Leon Logothetis: [01:11:35] Well, there were many moments where people share things and they tell us to turn off the camera and the sound is on. We could clearly do put it on.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:11:45] So it's sort of like disrespect.

Leon Logothetis: [01:11:46] Exactly. So we don't do that because that's not authentic. That's not like, you know, they want to share their hearts. So we don't go down that road. You have to give us full permission. I would say that talking from a personal standpoint, the person that you see on the camera when it's finished is the best version of me. But when you're doing this journey for all this period of time, you cannot always be like that. So there are moments when I'm not the best version of me. And this is where the power of editing comes in. You could create a show where you're like, "This is the kindest guy. What a dickhead? He's a dick." But that's because you're under so much pressure. You're kind of like in this place where there's just so much going on and you can't be perfect. So we've edited it to be the best version of me. If someone wants to edit it to be the worst version of me they could.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:12:39] Yeah. My producer has a highlight reel of me blowing a gasket on the mic or on camera where I'm just like, "This copy for this ad is bullshit. Who writes this garbage?" Just going off or I'll be doing it in a hotel somewhere and somebody will be slamming a door every three seconds and they're dumb kids throwing the bags out. Like, I'm just losing my shit. I'm waiting for him to be one day like, "Hey, I really need you to do this." And I'm like, "No." And he's like, you know, I still have that file somewhere of all these like career-ending temper tantrums that you've had. So I assume that exists for your show as well. Highlight reel.

Leon Logothetis: [01:13:18] Of course.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:13:18] He goes on the extras DVD.

Leon Logothetis: [01:13:20] Of course, it does. It's locked in a vault.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:13:23] Do you ever reimburse people after the fact like, "Hey, thanks for being kind. I don't really need any of this. And I know that, that you might need this"? Do you ever say like, "Hey, we should mail that person a couple of bucks for what they did, like they really went out of their way"? Or is it just like, "No, I needed this at the time and this is part of the show"?

Leon Logothetis: [01:13:42] The answer is no, but we have had a few people call us up and say, "You know, I bought you gas for the production. Can you give me the money back?" And I say to them, not to them because I'm chatting with them to the production team. I'm saying, "We're not giving them the money. You know, they paid $10 or whatever. They knew exactly what was going on. You know, we're not going to give them money." So sometimes it does happen, but we were like, "No."

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:05] Yeah. That's interesting. That somebody would bother to do that.

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:07] Yeah, exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:09] That's very strange. Like, "Hey know I was kind, but I really didn't mean to be, I just want to look good on camera. Can I get that back?"

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:14] So we were like, "No, you can't."

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:15] So yeah, obviously the crew eats and sleeps in some of these places and then they're like, "Okay, fine, Leon can eat because you're renting three rooms in our lodge."

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:23] Sometimes that happens.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:24] Yeah. Yeah. That's fair though.

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:26] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:26] That's fair. Yeah. Look, I never said I was going to bug everybody for something. Like, "Hey, we need three rooms, but not from you. You want everything for free. From this other hotel down the road is your competitor. We're going to give them $1,000 in business time."

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:38] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:39] Yeah. That makes sense. I'd love to make a trip like this, especially the Alaska to Argentina type thing, but again, I think I want to do it in, maybe a car that has a heater.

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:48] You should definitely do it in a car that has heaters, please.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:49] We might skip the Columbia kidnapped funnel as well.

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:55] Skip it.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:14:55] Yeah. Leon, thank you very much. You can stay at my house anytime. I don't know if San Jose is interesting enough.

Leon Logothetis: [01:14:59] I love San Jose.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:15:01] Well next time you're there, we'll do it.

Leon Logothetis: [01:15:02] All right. Thank you.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:15:05] So Jason, I'm glad we were finally able to make that work. Really kind of a cool way to dip into that show. I know you binged watched that show big time.

Jason DeFillippo: [01:15:13] Yeah, you put it in the notes that he was coming up and I'm like, "Oh man, I wish I could go to that." But I sat down two nights in a row, barely sleeping. I got like three hours of sleep for two nights in a row and watched the entirety of Season Two and was just like gob smacked by how awesome that trip was because I love road trips. You know me, I love road trips and these were epic road trips.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:15:32] Yeah. I mean he travels around the world and going to all these places, sleeps in the car or tries to beg for a place to stay, which I thought was kind of cool. And he actually is just a super fun, friendly guy. So which of course you would expect and we're actually going to do a giveaway of 20 copies of his book and we could mail them to Canada or the US. Send a direct message to me on Instagram. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Instagram and screenshot your review of the show. And the way that we're going to do that is you review us on Apple Podcasts, aka iTunes or whatever they're calling it now. If you've already reviewed the show, just go and edit it and you can show me you editing the review and if you are writing a new one, show me while you're writing it. Don't show me like you know somebody else's review. I have to know it yours. Send me that screenshot in a DM on Instagram along with your address and we'll draw 20 winners and we'll send you a copy of the book. It should be a pretty good book. I would imagine he's got a lot of stories in there that don't make it to the show.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:16:30] If you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships over time and space. Well, I've got systems and tiny habits all detailed in our Six-Minute Networking course, which is free over at jordanharbinger.com/course and the problem with kicking the can down the road and saying you're going to do it later. When it comes to relationships and networking, the number one mistake I see people make is postponing this and not digging the well before they get thirsty. So once you need relationships, you're too late. These drills take a few minutes per day. This is stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago. It's all at jordanharbinger.com/course. Speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Leon. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram and there's a video of this interview on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com/youtube.

[01:17:14] This show is produced in association with PodcastOne and this episode was co-produced by Jason "Cannonball Run" DeFillippo and Jen Harbinger. Show notes and worksheets are by Robert Fogarty. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Remember, we rise by lifting others, so the fee for the show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful, which should be in every episode. So please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[01:17:46] A lot of people ask me which shows I recommend and one that I listen to regularly is Mind Pump and I've got Sal here from Mind Pump. This is an interesting one, Episode 987, Sal, The Ketogenic Diet is making you fat because of course everyone's like, "Hey Jordan, are you doing keto? Where do you get your keto strips? Here's some keto food." People are sending me these, these cubes are like golf ball size and I look at it, it's like 400 calories and I'm like, “I don't need to get more calories in smaller packages like I'm good at eating enough crap.” But of course people doing keto are supposed to be getting lean. What's the deal with keto making you fat?

Sal Di Stefano: [01:18:21] Well, here's the thing, a ketogenic diet, there's a lot that goes into it, but in our experience, we're seeing more people have weight problems from following a ketogenic diet than people who are actually losing weight and keeping it off. That's the key is keeping it off part. Ketogenic diet is extremely restrictive. It is cutting out entire macronutrient, not necessarily unhealthy. There's nothing wrong with it if you do it right, but the problem is when you go back to reintroducing that macronutrient of carbohydrates, which you essentially almost always do, causes bingeing afterwards, you've restricted so strongly, then you go back on, you gain all this weight and then some. And so in our experience as trainers, we're just seeing it caused a lot of damage, more damage than it's fixing.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:19:01] Because you just ended up rebounding and getting super fat afterwards or you just bust out your-- like what's wrong with it?

Sal Di Stefano:  [01:19:06] It doesn't teach you fundamental long-term behaviors. It's a very clear cut, black and white. Just don't eat this kind of stuff, which never works in the long term, never.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:19:16] It’s the Catholicism of diets.

Sal Di Stefano: [01:19:17] That's right. Good example.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:19:20] Sorry, Catholics. Just kidding. You can find this Episode 987 at Mind Pump and of course, we'll link to it in the show notes as well.

Sal Di Stefano: [01:19:27] Perfect.