589: Persevering Past Paranoid Parental Persecution | Feedback Friday

589: Persevering Past Paranoid Parental Persecution | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Special thanks to our sponsor Glenfiddich single malt scotch whisky. You've heard me talk about Glenfiddich a bunch. We're challenging, and they are challenging the traditional notions commonly portrayed in our culture of what it means to be wealthy and live a life of riches. Glenfiddich believes that beyond the material, a life of wealth and riches is, of course, about family, values, community, fulfilling work. These are the values that led Glenfiddich to become the world's leading single malt scotch whisky, and on Feedback Friday, it's every Friday, we're always trying to help solve problems that get in the way of you, living your richest life. More from our partners at Glenfiddich coming up later in the show.

[00:00:36] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, Gabriel Mizrahi. Gabe, I don't know what's going on with your voice today, man. You sound like you've been hanging out with Dennis Rodman while I was in Peru. 

[00:00:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: I do sound like I've been hanging out — I sound a little rough. It's not COVID. I took two tests. It's just Rodmanitis. 

[00:00:55] Jordan Harbinger: Rodmanitis. You're going to sit there with an IV during the show. 

[00:00:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. 

[00:00:59] Jordan Harbinger: For those of you that saw the Dennis Rodman interview, he had an IV and for some reason, during the show, during the interview, I had to have the nurse turned down, whatever was in the bag because he started to just keel over during the show. That was a fun one. 

[00:01:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's going to happen at question two, question three. 

[00:01:15] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You get your nurse with you there, cranking up the NAD or whatever. 

[00:01:20] On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those are. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind.

[00:01:43] Now, if you are new to the show, on Fridays, we give advice to you. We answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week, we had Sammy "The Bull," an American legend, I guess you could say for all the wrong reasons as a mafia hitman who copped to, I think it was, 19 murders, flipped on his boss, John Gotti. It's a two-part interview. Like nothing you've ever heard before. A lot he's never said anywhere else, because I've been hanging out with him on and off for the past couple of years. And he's just — the man who's got a lot of stories, I guess, you could say. So make sure you've had a listen to everything that we created for you here this week.

[00:02:24] Now, I wanted to make a quick note here. As baby number two is just weeks away, depending on when you're listening to this. Maybe I already have two kids. It really does change the targets for me. And for myself, I should say, and for a lot of us, we have to pause every now and then and ask, has the most important thing changed? Am I chasing an outdated target? So having my first kid, Jayden changed a lot for me. Right? I'm optimizing for time in the future instead of revenues and cash. I'm actually optimizing for some of that now, but with the eye on, later on, having a lot more time and flexibility. And social status was just something that I think all guys that people maybe, but guys especially are so big on in their 20s, maybe even in their 30s. That went from like number two or number three in my life to just not a priority whatsoever.

[00:03:13] And I think the pandemic is causing a lot of us to rethink our priorities. And if you haven't done that recently, sit down and think about what's most important to you in life. Not the lip service stuff, not the things where you think this is the right answer. What are your actions show are the most important things in your life? And is that the order that you want your life in, right? If you think, "Oh, my family is the most important thing to me," but you spend 36 weeks on the road doing stuff and you don't really need to be doing it. Or you could maybe change your business around to spend more time with family. Then it really does show you what your priorities truly are. If health is your priority, but you don't have a trainer and you're not working out and you're eating a bunch of junk because you're in a hurry. Is health really a top priority for you? This was an awakening for me as well. 

[00:03:55] So take a minute this weekend and just make a list of what your priorities are in your head, and then think about whether or not that list is actually true. And I think you might find some surprises in there, unpleasant ones, but surprises that you need to get a handle on. And maybe rethink the order of the values in your life, or even brainstorm new values that weren't on the list at all. I think it's a healthy exercise. Maybe try and do it quarterly this weekend, as good a time as any for most, y'all.

[00:04:22] All right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? 

[00:04:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabriel. I'm in my early 40s and I'm married with two young children. My parents live in a different state. Up until two years ago, I had a cordial relationship with them until I set a boundary that I would only talk to them if they were respectful. I wouldn't tolerate name-calling, swearing, yelling, or threatening when I politely disagree with them or don't let them make decisions for my husband and me like where to live and work. This triggered a ton of escalating behavior from them. For example, they made false accusations that my husband was abusing me because — why else would I do whatever they demanded unless I was being brainwashed. They first brought up the accusation to me, then to my husband, then to the CEO of my company, and then to our local police department. All of us, including the police who came to our home, told my parents that this was not true and asked them to stop making these reports. As a result, I blocked her phone number and email, and I've made no contact with them since. I consulted with several attorneys and got varying advice. We discussed restraining orders for example, but those could trigger further anger. Ultimately, because of the harassment and threats happened over the phone and across state lines, these consultations did not develop into anything actionable. Since then, I started a new company and my parents have continued to contact me and my children, both of whom are too young to respond. And one of whom they've never even met. While I continue to block their emails and throw away their greeting cards without reading, I don't like the nebulous feeling that they will continue to track us down and may even show up one day to confront or harm my, quote-unquote, "abusive husband" who has, quote-unquote, "taken me away from them." I know from decades of my parents' shared paranoid and persecutory delusions, and emotional abuse that they have no insight into their behavior and are unwilling to listen to reason from anyone and will not agree to compassionate suggestions for medical or psychological help. At this point, I just want to be left alone and I want to know that I've taken responsible control over the situation to shield my family from this behavior. The approach "ignore it" feels passive, but if it's the safest course of action, I'll make peace with it. Do you have any other advice? Signed, On the Fence About Playing Defense. 

[00:06:30] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. This is a super sad situation and I'm so sorry that your parents are like this. I can't even imagine what they must've been like growing up. I don't mean to laugh, but it's so kind of ridiculous even now. What they're doing to you and your family — there are just no words. It's cruel. It's weird. It's pretty damn scary on top of all that. I mean, you got your own family to protect. The fact that you're handling it with this much equanimity, that's really admirable. I don't think I would be quite as calm about it. You sound like a very level-headed person and I just really feel for you and your husband and your kids. So there's obviously a lot going on here. We wanted to consult with an expert on everything you shared. So we reached out to Dr. Erin Margolis, clinical psychologist and friend of the show.

[00:07:13] And the first thing Dr. Margolis said is that all of these feelings that your parents are bringing up for you — the sadness, anger, grief, frustration, helplessness — that is a very normal response to what is frankly an insane situation. A big part of moving through this is just allowing yourself to feel all those things without too much judgment, because they're all appropriate. But let's dig into this thing about deciding to just ignore your parents and how that puts you in a, quote-unquote, "passive position" in your words. Now, look, I get why you feel that way. They're the aggressors. You're on the defense, always reacting to the next creepy card or abusive phone call or dysfunctional message. But the truth is you, blocking them, tossing their cards, building this whole new life without them, that is a very active stance, actually. And that's powerful. You might not even be able to control or even predict your parents behavior. But you can definitely take all of the necessary steps to protect yourself and your family.

[00:08:08] And as Dr. Margolis has pointed out, no one wants to have this kind of relationship with their parents, obviously. It runs completely counter to our biology to cut off our parents. So if you're choosing to do that, it's because it truly is a last resort. Your strategy, it's actually quite intentional. And it's the definition of my opinion of active. And it takes a lot of courage and conviction. So really it's the opposite of being passive. I know it might not seem that way, but in my opinion, it is. So rather than beat yourself up about being passive, you might want to take stock of how much agency you've actually taken on. I mean, sure, you could terrorize your parents right back. You could report them to the police. You could send them hateful emails that compound the toxicity. I guess that would be more active, but you know, that's not going to change their behavior. They're not going to suddenly wake up one day and go, "Oh, you know what? We've been such monsters. We need to go to therapy." any, quote-unquote, "active stance" you take, it's only going to lead to more frustration, more backlash, not because you'd be doing something wrong, but because of who your parents just fundamentally are, or seem to be. So not going full freaking beast here that doesn't make you weak or passive. It makes you smart and self-aware. 

[00:09:20] So Dr. Margolis' insight was to really explore the feelings that come up around this idea of yourself as passive. Does viewing yourself that way, maybe make you feel like a victim? Does it make you feel vulnerable? Does it make you angry? I would take some time to dig into that maybe with your husband and just see what experience you're having because of the way that you're thinking about your position here. And also whether that view of yourself is really the full story, because ultimately the only real option you have here. And I think, you know, this is to just accept your parents' insanity. That's the hard part, making peace with something that's so intolerable, but as Dr. Margolis pointed out, that doesn't mean agreeing with it or condoning it or forgiving your parents for what they've done. It means seeing the reality of your situation for what it is and resisting the urge to change it, because that is clearly not a possibility above and beyond what you're already doing. And in my book, that's about as active and responsible as you can get. Acceptance is huge. Something, something serenity, prayer goes here, right, gabe? 

[00:10:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, exactly. Right. The wisdom to know the difference.

[00:10:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:10:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Acceptance feels like weakness to her. When in reality, it's the most powerful and effective thing she could be doing in a situation that like you said, is impossible to change. Dr. Margolis also picked up on another interesting thing in your life. This part, when you said that you don't like the nebulous feeling that your parents will continue to track you down and may even show up one day to confront your abusive husband, who in their view has somehow taken you away from them, which by the way, Jordan, just so telling about the parents' view of their children, is it not? That it's incredibly weird. And look, I do understand that fear, these people have called your boss at work. They've called the police, making up stories about your husband. It's not inconceivable that they could cause some real damage at some point. Although Dr. Margolis did say that if the cops or CPS ever did come around to investigate some report of abuse, they would see no indication of it. And they're pretty rigorous about that. And they've seen through your parents' claims in the past. So I hope that does put you at ease just a little bit, but Dr. Mogul has also pointed out that your parents are — look, they're clearly paranoid. You know this, we know this now. And now you're paranoid about your parents, and she did wonder if you might be absorbing a little bit of their paranoia. Of course, the difference is that your paranoia is aimed at them and it's largely justified rather than at the world, which just seems completely ridiculous. 

[00:11:48] So Dr. Margolis' idea was to look at that a little more closely as well. Maybe explore what you learned from your parents about not trusting other people, maybe assuming bad things are going to happen and see how that might be operating in your own life. Maybe how it might be influencing the way you're responding to your parents right now, because as she put it to us, when you're raised with parents like this, it's very easy to inherit a worldview where you're constantly expecting the worst. And again, that's not entirely unfounded. But it would be very interesting to find out if there's some mirroring happening here between you and your parents. And that would be a great thing to talk about in therapy if you guys are not going already. 

[00:12:23] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, yeah, that is such an interesting insight. She's obviously nothing like her parents deep down, but when you're raised by people like this, I could see their catastrophizing and paranoia, it's got a rub off on you, despite your best efforts to stay darn normal and sane.

[00:12:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. And that's really important for her to see if it is going on because at least some of her suffering in this situation is about what her parents might do to them, what they could do to them, not just what they're actually in fact, doing right at this moment, which usually amounts to just sending incredibly annoying, maybe borderline abusive correspondence in the mail or whatever. And that is another piece of the puzzle that she can control to some extent. Maybe that would make her feel a little more active too. 

[00:13:01] Jordan Harbinger: It's a great point. So another rich area to explore in therapy, I suppose. On a more practical level, we also wanted to get some insight on the privacy angle of your question though. So we'd reached out to George Grant, friend of the show, executive security manager at a Fortune 40 company. George has run personal protection for high net worth families of people that, let's just say we've all heard of. So he really knows his stuff. And Grant's gut was telling him that he would take the high road and ignore these parents too, as tough as it is. But he also consulted with one of his protective intelligence investigator friends. And they said that as long as your information is available, your parents could continue to reach out. But if you really want to kind of go nuclear here and go Ghost Recon and vanish, George's colleague recommended looking into so-called take-down service. 

[00:13:47] One is called a Reputation Defender. I've never heard of it. I haven't looked at reviews or anything. So it's not necessarily a recommendation for this particular service. But services like that will scrub the surface web for any available personally identifiable information, so emails, numbers, associated companies, stuff like that. And remove or somehow suppress them. And then once the service has been active for a month or so, you can change your personal email, change your phone numbers. Now, of course, unless you move, this won't remove the mail from the equation or reduce the likelihood of your parents just showing up one day, but it will stop most nuisance contact. The only thing is this approach isn't cheap. Apparently it's like five to 10 grand per year for a reliable service. I think they probably involve a lot of lawyers and a lot of follow-up and you know, they try and scrub the net for your presence, which can't be easy. But if you have the funds that might be worth it to you for some quiet and peace of mind.

[00:14:42] So the bottom line is you can't change or control your parents. You already knew that. You can only control what you can control. That might not be something external. It'll probably be something internal, a different way of viewing your position, a new way of managing your thoughts, which could make a very painful situation. Just a little bit more tolerable. I'm not convinced that you should be doing something more. Honestly, I think you're doing a pretty good job here. So. So keep maintaining those boundaries. We're rooting for you. Good luck. 

[00:15:12] And man, Gabe, I do hope she does find a way to hide from these parents. But you know who you don't have to hide away from for fear of your life? The products and services that support this podcast. We'll be right back. 

[00:15:25] This episode is sponsored in part by Cuts Clothing. Traditional business attire instills a sense of professionalism, but I find often that it's hard to move in and it's uncovered. Thank goodness work attire has changed. The days of wearing uncomfortable business attire are over, but you don't have to sacrifice style for comfort with Cuts Clothing. Cuts' founder, Steven Borrelli set out to create clothes ready for every occasion. And he started by reinventing the t-shirt. GQ magazine calls it the only shirt worth wearing. I concur. Now is a great time to get all your closet staples from Cuts Clothing with their holiday sale. 30 percent off site-wide now through December 3rd. I highly recommend Cuts' signature buttery, soft custom engineered Pyca Pro tri-blend tee. It's a very fancy name, which I can wear pretty much anywhere from being on camera to working out in the garage. Cuts also has amazing polos, bomber jackets, joggers. Ship and get in, 2021 is coming. Nothing's going to make it over here. In preparation, Cuts is starting their sales season early for you. With 30 percent off, site-wide starting November 9th. So you can have worry-free holiday shipping, head over to cutsclothing.com to get 30 percent off site-wide through December 3rd and upgrade your wardrobe with their world famous shirts, joggers or they're all new outerwear. That's C-U-T-S-clothing.com.

[00:16:33] This episode is also sponsored by Better Help online therapy. I'm here to remove the stigma for getting help with your mental health. I'm not ashamed to admit that I've gone through therapy a bunch of times. It's helped me tremendously into tumultuous times and also when things were actually going well. One way to think about therapy can be through analogies. We work out, we go to the doctor to prevent injury and disease in our bodies. We see the dentist for our teeth to prevent cavities and other issues. Going to therapy, it's kind of like the above. Only, you know, when your dentist tells you to floss, you never do it. Well with therapy, I'm telling you, you should do it. Please go and do it. It's routine maintenance for your mental and emotional wellness. It doesn't mean something's wrong with you. You're not screwed up. It means you're investing in yourself to keep your mind healthy. Better Help is online, customized therapy that offers video phone, even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy. And you can start communicating with your therapist in under 48 hours. Why invest in everything else and not in your mind? 

[00:17:28] Jen Harbinger: Our listeners get 10 percent off your first month at betterhelp.com/jordan. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:17:37] Jordan Harbinger: Thanks for listening and supporting. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and/or services? You can always visit Jordan harbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. 

[00:17:50] And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[00:17:55] All right, what's next? 

[00:17:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I've been married to my partner and best friend for almost 10 years. Now over that decade, we adopted three children and then last year we lost our middle daughter at 13 to suicide. We also have a foster daughter who is five and who we'll be adopting soon. On top of that, my partner's mother passed away two years ago and her father passed away two months before our daughter's suicide. After my mother-in-law's death, I felt my relationship with my wife start to separate. The romance had slowly dwindled ever since we had our three adopted children placed with us, but after her mom's death, the romance ceased completely. And then last week, she told me that she was gay. I told her how I was feeling, and we agreed that we could not meet each other's emotional and romantic needs. We decided to separate. The problem is that we do not want to disrupt the adoption process of our foster child while the separation shouldn't have a drastic impact on our chances. We've been through enough of the system to know that what should be is often drastically different from what actually happens. I promised that I'm not going to abandon her and agreed to work together to get her on her feet financially, so she can be independent again. We've also agreed that we can see other people while we wait for the adoption to become final and then legally divorce. But I'm afraid that when I explain the situation to another woman, even though it's only temporary, they'll only see the fact that at this moment, they'd be part of an open relationship. From what I've seen and heard of the dating world, this is likely to be a huge issue for most women. And I can't say I blame them. I've even thought of asking my partner for a letter, explaining the situation and giving her blessing, but that feels like getting a permission slip from a teacher. I'd wait to date, but it's been over three years since I've had a significant romantic relationship. And I feel quite lonely. It's not just the physical aspects that I'm looking for, it's also the love and the connection. How can I help a prospective date or girlfriend get past this hurdle? How do I navigate this? Signed, Moving On While Sticking Around. 

[00:19:47] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. There is a lot going on in this letter. Holy smokes.

[00:19:51] First of all, before we talk about your dating situation, let's just acknowledge that you and your wife have been through some extraordinary stuff here. You adopted three children, which is amazing by the way, but then you lost one of them to suicide, which I just can't even — I'm so sorry to hear that. I can't even imagine how hard that must have been for you guys. It just breaks my heart as a parent. I'm also shocked at children doing that at age 13, but I've heard also that it's on the rise now. And social media is apparently exacerbating this mental health crisis among teens as well. So on top of that, your wife lost both of her parents in such a short amount of time. Now you're in the process of adopting another child. And now your wife has just realized, or maybe she's just telling you now that she's gay. Yeah, dude, this is quite a situation. There is a lot to unpack here. Wow. 

[00:20:38] So first of all, it sounds like you and your wife are dead set on staying together for a period of time. And that means shifting the terms of your marriage to suit you and your wife's needs, but keeping it intact for practical reasons. Fine by me. That's totally your choice. And I can see that you have some good reasons for doing that. Namely, not disrupting the adoption process, supporting your wife through this chapter, making sure she's financially stable at all. And since this is a short-term solution, you guys do plan on getting divorced at some point in the near future. I guess that does make sense. It'll be complicated, a little messy, maybe confusing sometimes, but if it's really in service of these concrete goals you want to achieve, then that sounds reasonable. If it drags out into four or five, eight years of this, I'd say you guys need to reconsider your plan for your own sake and for the sake of your kids. After all, they're growing up in this non-traditional home too. They're absorbing whatever you and your wife are going through or not going through as the case may be. And you have to consider what's best for them, even if that means not being a traditional couple and just being great co-parents. 

[00:21:45] That said, I think that you know this is not the cleanest neatest of arrangements, and I'm not talking about how to explain this to other people. There's a lot going on in your home now. How you and your wife treat each other now? How you explain all of this to your kids? Your wife's orientation, your desire to date other people, the adoption, the money stuff, mourning your daughters — you guys are dealing with a lot. This must get pretty overwhelming sometimes. And I think you guys could use some help in managing it. So the best advice I can offer you right now is go to couples counseling/family therapy. Those are different things with your wife, maybe even with your kids. Probably both if you can swing it. Both meaning couples counseling and family therapy both. You guys do need a safe space where you can talk about everything you've been through. Process all the new stuff that's coming up. Learn some tools for coping with the stress and the grief and figure out what you want your relationship to look like, what you want your future to look like, all of that. 

[00:22:43] This is really more than two people can take on by themselves, in my opinion — and no shade there. This isn't a judgment of you guys. In fact, you seem to be handling all of this very impressively. But just to say that you guys are going through something truly extraordinary. So I would get some support stat, and I had also looked into a grief support group in your area. Maybe even one focused on parents who have lost children or even for suicide loss survivors, specifically. That could be very powerful for you and your wife right now. And you guys could share your story, hear from other people who've been through something similar., hopefully find some community so that you feel less alone in your grief. If you indeed do feel that way. 

[00:23:22] Okay, having said all that, now we can talk about your question, which in case you can't tell, it seems to me like the dating thing is just the least of your concerns right now. But I also hear that that's an issue for you. So here's what I'm thinking. You want to date other people, but you're afraid of how they'll respond when they hear your situation, which makes sense. What's tricky about this though, is that you're not just talking about the definition of your marriage. You're really talking about how available you would be to a new partner. And I think that's what people will be responding to here. Not just if you're still tied to your marriage on paper, but whether you can really be a full and present partner to them. So I'd take some time to consider whether you really are ready to date someone seriously and what your marriage will have to look like for you to be available to new people and how to do that in a way that's also fair to you and your wife and children.

[00:24:15] I'm talking very practically here. Like in terms of how much time you can spend with a new person, whether you introduce them to your kids if it gets serious, whether you helping your wife get back on her feet will compete with your obligations to a new person. Again, all of this would be a great thing to bring into therapy and put some thought behind.

[00:24:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Man, Jordan, that's a really good point. It's funny. He's so fixated on what people will think of his marriage on paper. Like what's the definition, what's the status? When really the biggest concern will probably be about what kind of partner he is. Is he even ready to be in love with somebody new if he's still entangled in his old life? But if you decide that you are ready to seriously date, then I would get clear on your stories that you can tell it to a new person in a way that they can understand, you know, in a way that doesn't, I don't know, make them wonder if you're somehow hiding the ball or suppressing some facts, or even just pick up on the sense that you might be still conflicted about all of this yourself. Maybe when the time is right, you say something like, "Listen, now that we're getting to know each other, I want to share some stuff with you. Just a heads up. What I'm about to tell you, it's going to be a little intense. It might take you by surprise. Trust me. I did not see any of this coming myself, but look, I like you. I like spending time with you. I want to be an open book. I want you to know where I'm coming from. So here's the deal. I was married for 10 years. Great marriage. We adopted three kids. We're in the process of adopting a fourth. I love them. I love being a dad. Sadly, we lost our daughter. That was a huge blow. We're still working through all of that. And it really did take a toll on our relationship. And then my wife came out to me, which just—" 

[00:25:40] Sorry, let me pause right here. Jordan, just recapping all of this is making me realize how much stuff this guy has been through. 

[00:25:46] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:25:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Quite a story to tell, which is, I guess my point is that he needs to work through it and get comfortable before he shares all of this with somebody at the Olive Garden or whatever. So okay, he gets to this point about talking about the wife, "And it took a toll on our relationship. And then my wife came out to me. Okay, that's totally fine. We're still very close. But we've decided that after this last adoption, we're going to get a divorce. We're staying together just for a little bit longer to allow the adoption to go through. And in the meantime, we've both agreed that we can see other people. It's all on the up and up. My wife knows I'm dating. I want her to be happy as well. So that's where I am right now. It will not always be this way. And I'm trying to move through this in a way that allows each of us to be happy, allows each of us to build our own lives, but still allowing us to protect the family that basically we've worked so hard to build." That's in a nutshell, how I would put it and you can tailor that however you want, of course. But the most important thing is to be totally upfront and totally secure in what you're saying, which will take some work on your part I think in advance. 

[00:26:42] After that I would answer whatever questions the person you're seeing has for you. I'm guessing that she will have a few of them after all of this. And part of being an open book is bearing whatever response you get back from a new person. Some women might not be cool with it, and that's their right. Everyone has their own needs, their own values. Other women, they'll listen to your story and they'll get it. They'll be patient. There'll be willing to meet you wherever you are, especially if they feel a connection with you and hopefully in a few years, you won't really even have to tell this story anymore, or you'll tell the story, but it won't be like, "Bear with me for three and a half years while we work this out. It'll just be like, here's my story." 

[00:27:14] The fact that you're moving toward a divorce though, that does help a lot. But like Jordan said, it's still going to be a bit complicated in the meantime, or maybe not. Maybe your wife will be super cool with a new girlfriend and when the time is right, you introduce your kids to her and you guys are just one big quirky Alan Ball, family drama on HBO or something, which that would be awesome. It's probably the ideal outcome, but still very complicated. But at some point I do think that you and your wife are going to have to formally separate on paper and emotionally, if you really want to build new relationships and new lives that are truly your own and that you can truly give all of yourself to.

[00:27:48] Jordan Harbinger: You know, to be fair, I will disagree with you on this one point — Olive Garden is probably a good place to have these conversations because they have unlimited breadsticks from what I recall. So you have a lot of time to go through all of the details of this. 

[00:28:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: What to do while you listen— 

[00:28:02] Jordan Harbinger: But if you go to TGI Fridays, you know, your apps come and the meals are done. And before you even get to the whole wife coming out thing, you're already hammering down Carlos' cookies and cream tsunami cake, and it's just over.

[00:28:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: You have personal experience with that dessert, Jordan? I've never even heard of that. 

[00:28:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's a real desert. It is. And I quote, "A flood of Oreo cream icing with colored sprinkles, unleashed tableside over Carlos' bakery, rich chocolate cake, layered with Oreo cookie vanilla mousse." So you will have — that's going to take you like 38 minutes to eat minimum. You know, it's probably 1800 calories, at least. That's plenty of time to get through the rest of what you told us here today. 

[00:28:45] So that's what I'd be working toward. You're definitely entering some tricky waters here. You're balancing so many different needs here, yours, your wife's, your children's, uh, prospective partners — your impending diabetes diagnosis after downing that dessert, we just plug. All while staying in an ambiguous and evolving partnership. And again, all the more reason to find a great therapist and start talking. There is a way to move through this period with a lot of growth, but it'll take work on you and your wife's part. So I hope you get to do that.

[00:29:14] I'm so sorry for everything you guys have been through. I really am. I hope, by the way, don't think that we're having a laugh at your expense. We're trying to keep things entertaining here because this is a heavy one. And what happened to your daughter, of course, is beyond tragic. It's something no parent should ever have to experience. And as a father, it's just a nightmare. And you know, I want a virtual hug from California, as much as I can here on that, because you need to make sure you're giving yourself the time you need to grieve and heal in the midst of all this other stuff. And trust that this new path your life is taking is the right one. And if you prioritize yourself and your kids right now, I think that the dating piece will fall into place when the time is right. You might not be able to have everything all at once, but you don't necessarily need to either. And again, hugs from California, man. I know that you are just in the thick of it right now, and it might feel really lonely and that might be part of the impetus to want to get out there and date. But I think, you know, there is light at the end of the tunnel and please keep us updated and I'm wishing you the best. Good luck. 

[00:30:14] Gabe, I think part of this, and I don't want to psychoanalyze this guy. I'm not qualified, but with all this stuff going. It almost sounds like he just feels isolated and lonely because, you know, he's sort of isolated or insulated from his wife. She's gone through her own stuff and they have so many issues. I almost feel like if he was right in front of me, I bet you, he doesn't really want to date. I think he just wants literally anyone to sort of lean on right now who's not a part of this mess. You know what I mean? 

[00:30:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:30:40] Jordan Harbinger: I would be that way. I'd be. I have somebody to talk to. That's not also going through a crisis. That's willing to maybe give me some love and energy. I think that almost sounds like where he's at versus trying to go on Bumble right now where everything is. He's in the middle of a tornado. 

[00:30:56] You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise, try to use a descriptive subject line. That makes our job a lot easier. And if you can include the state and country that you live in, that usually helps us give you even more detailed advice. If there's something that you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or if you just need a new perspective on stuff, life, love, work. What to do if a woman is moving in on your 90-year-old grandfather? Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:31:28] All right, what's next? 

[00:31:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a father of a young boy who is slowly gaining mastery over his language skills. Seeing my son learn English got me wondering about learning a second language. I may be jumping the gun and being a tiger dad here. But if you had to pick a useful language to teach your kid, what would it be? Signed, Giving the Best Possible Shot to My Future Polyglot. 

[00:31:47] Jordan Harbinger: I love that you want to teach your son another language. That is a huge asset. Look right now, this is up for debate, but I've got to say the Chinese is the way to go. It's very doable for a kid. I know for adults, it just looks impossible, but it's very doable, especially for a kid and the most useful second language by a factor of about a hundred right now, especially if you live in the United States. If you live in South America, have him learn Spanish, of course. And if you live in India or somewhere around there, learn Hindi, but really it's Chinese. And honestly, any language is amazing for a kid. It doesn't always have to be about pure utility. If you've got a Russian family, learn Russian. If you've got a family that lives in any country in Europe, learn that language. Why not? It can also be about opening his mind, giving him a chance to travel to certain countries in the future. Working his brain, but for my money, Mandarin is the move. And if you can start them young, he'll have a massive advantage. 

[00:32:42] Right now, Jayden is in a bilingual school. It's taught by Chinese people. So he's learning Chinese and English. He speaks English with me and some other folks, and he speaks Chinese at school and with grandma and grandpa and with mom, with Jen. Spanish, like I said, is another great language to know if you're in the US or South America, but it's just not as clutch as Mandarin simply because of the rise of China. And also because there are so many bilingual Spanish speakers in the US already who speak English and Spanish so much better native proficiency in both, right? It also depends on where in the country you are. Like if you live in California or Arizona or Texas speaking, Spanish is going to be great. It's going to be useful. If you live in Boston and you're into technology, Mandarin's going to serve you a lot better. You don't know what your kid's going to do when he gets older. I would say learning Spanish as an adult was much easier for me than learning Chinese as an adult. 

[00:33:33] For my money, man, Mandarin's where it's at. And it's very, very doable with online teachers. You can hire an online teacher to teach your kid Mandarin for a couple hours a week. And I think I pay like 17 bucks an hour for one-on-one lessons and that's virtual. I'm sure, depending on where you live, you might even be able to find things that are in-person that are very, very affordable and very, very useful.

[00:33:54] So I hope that helps. And let me know what you choose, or if you need a language referral to my Chinese teachers, I'm happy to send that along as well. Just shoot me an email jordan@jordanharbinger.com. 

[00:34:04] By the way, if you're joining us for the first time or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show, we now have episode starter packs, and these are collections of your favorite episodes organized by popular topic to help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show. Just visit Jordan harbinger.com/start to get started. 

[00:34:22] All right. Next up. 

[00:34:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys. I had a challenging adolescence and basically lost my youth to anxiety and depression. I also missed out on the whole high school and university experience, which is tearing me apart. How can I make up for this last time as I approach my thirties? I welcome unconventional advice here. I'm tired of being told to move on, focus on my career, get married and so on. It just ends up making me feel worse. What would you do? Signed, The Existential Cowboy. 

[00:34:48] Jordan Harbinger: Well, I am sorry that you've struggled with anxiety and depression for so long. That is really tough and debilitating. And in addition to being very hard, it also leaves you feeling like you missed out on a lot of life, but I love how far you've come. I love that. You're asking this question now. It's exactly the right question to be asking, and I know it'll lead you to the ideas that you're looking for. 

[00:35:09] So first. I would start by accepting and forgiving yourself for whatever you went through up until now. You were clearly going through some heavy stuff. And it sounds like that comes with some sadness and regret, which is normal. But at a certain point, you have to say to yourself, "Okay, that was me. Then this is me now. I wish things had been different, but they weren't. So I'm letting go of that. I'm forgiving myself. I'm moving forward. What's next?" And to be clear, that's very different from just moving on. This is sitting with that stuff, having some compassion for yourself and integrating your history into who you are. 

[00:35:43] And if it's hard for you to do that, then I would remind yourself that whatever you've been through, it's gotten you to this point, to this crucial point that you're at right now where you're trying to figure out how to live. And that is super valuable. I know it doesn't erase the past, but it does give it a lot of meaning that the suffering you've been through brought you to the point where you can ask a really important question that some people never ask themselves. 

[00:36:08] Okay. All that said, here are a few ideas that I would focus on. First off, invest in great relationships. I'm not talking about finding a partner or a wife. I know your family is on you for that. I'm talking about developing meaningful connections with friends, colleagues, mentors, bosses, peers, anyone really that you like and admire. All of the research shows that the quality of our relationships determines most of the happiness in our lives. And in terms of healing from depression, specifically, close intimate relationships. And by that, I mean relationships where you can really be yourself where you're not playing a role or hiding aspects of who you are. That's really the key to feeling connected, to feeling fulfilled. And I know that depression is complex. I'm not glossing over that, but having strong friendships to fall back on, that's a great way to ease those feelings of alienation and shame and to not slip back into them when things get tough. 

[00:37:01] So if I were you, I'd be actively working on meeting new people and taking a chance on sharing yourself with them. And I'd also consider deepening the relationships you already have with your parents, siblings, old friends, whoever it is. Because investing in those relationships will also be a big part of really living in your 30s. I wouldn't fixate on getting married or finding a BFF or anything like that. Just focus on the people in front of you and see where those relationships take you. At the same time, start exploring something that you care about. I'm not just talking about, you know, like go get a job or throw yourself into your career. If this aligns with your career, great, but that can come later. I'm talking about finding something that really lights you up. It could be an issue, an activity, a puzzle, a problem, a sport, a goal, a craft, a game, anything really. 

[00:37:48] Make freaking artisanal candles in the evenings. I've got a friend who got heavy into that, and you think I'm kidding, but she got heavy into that during the pandemic. And it's almost become like a meditation practice for her. Contributing to the Wikipedia page for purebred dogs and ancient Rome. I mean, I made that up just now, obviously, but that's got to be a thing, right? Why not? Great phone banking for a candidate, you believe in another great one. So just literally play around, explore, find that thing and then take tiny steps towards it every day. Forget the bigger picture. Forget making money. Just follow your curiosity for now.

[00:38:21] If you do this consistently, it will slowly nudge you towards your, quote-unquote, "purpose." You know, I know that word's overused, but this is really what it means here. But honestly, doing something you really care about, it doesn't even need to become something that's profound. It can just be fun. It can just be interesting. My friend who makes candles, for example, candle making, definitely, is not her purpose, okay. She's actually a cinematographer, but these weird candles they've helped her deal with her anxiety, her boredom. They've made her more focused on her job. She even mails the candles she makes to different friends around the country and she swears that it's made them closer. 

[00:38:57] So I'm actually a big fan of thinking small here. Small is good. Also invest in yourself, read a ton, share what you learn with the people you know, maybe even with a few people you don't know yet, apply what you learned to new situations, new problems, become a real nerd about one or two things that you care about. Also this one's obvious, but it's crucial, take care of yourself. Eat well, exercise regularly. This will work wonders for anxiety and depression. I know you've heard it before. It'll also make the rest of your life so much better. Honestly, I'd make this a top five priority. No matter. It is a game changer. 

[00:39:34] And finally, if you weren't doing this already, I would go to therapy. It sounds like you've got a lot to talk about as we all do. This is key, not just for working through the anxiety and depression that you face, but for getting into more existential questions, like what should my life be about and what does it all mean? And what do I do with all these feelings I have about my past and my purpose and all that? Having a great therapist who can go there with you, that is huge. Seriously, don't think twice. Find someone good, somebody who gets you and challenges you, and start talking. 

[00:40:04] And finally, I would try to go on some adventures. This is a little harder during the panty-D but a lot of what I did when I was younger is travel around and get a ton of new experiences. We've talked about things that light you up. Travel lit me up, of course, but it also exposed me to new ways of thinking, living, eating, seeing the world, speaking that helped me grow really quickly. I grew up quickly and I got a ton of life experience in a much shorter time than my peers and it helped me be kind of ahead of the game in a lot of ways. This might help you make up for some lost time as well without actually taking a decade to do it. 

[00:40:40] So go get it, bud. I know you might be a little late to the party, but that does not matter. You are at the party and you're still so young. You have plenty of time to live your life. So good luck. 

[00:40:50] You know, what else makes up for lost time? Engaging in frivolous consumerism. Here's some capitalism for you. We'll be right back. 

[00:40:58] This episode is sponsored in part by Purple Mattress. There are a lot of gimmicks that promise a great night's sleep. It doesn't matter what kind of toppers there are, how heavy a blanket may be. That's lipstick on a pig, man. If you're sleeping on a terrible mattress, your sleep is going to be terrible. It's that simple. That's why I recommend trying out a Purple Mattress. Only purple mattresses have the gel flex grid, a super stretchy ultra squishy material — those are technical terms — that adapt and flex around pressure points and don't retain heat. Also it bounces back as you move and shifts. So you never have that, I'm stuck feeling you get with memory foam. We love our Purple Harmony Pillow, which also has the gel flex grid, which is amazingly supportive while cushioning my delicate head, no matter how. Try Purple Mattress risk-free with free shipping and returns.

[00:41:39] Jen Harbinger: Getting a great night's sleep starts with having a great mattress. Get a Purple Mattress. Go to purple.com/jordan10 and use code JORDAN10. For a limited time, you can get 10 percent off any order of $200 or more. That's purple.com/jordan10 code JORDAN10 for 10 percent off. Any order of $200 or more. Purple.com/jordan10, promo code JORDAN10. 

[00:42:01] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Chinet. Chinet is a people-focused brand disguised as a premium disposable tableware brand. Chinet prides themselves on being part of authentic human connections and playing an important role and togetherness. They've been a part of American culture for over 90 years providing durable plates, cups, cutlery, napkins, and table covers. Chinet is the go-to brand for cookouts, holidays, birthdays, game nights, baby showers, and more. Chinet brand believes not only that everyone should have a place around the table, but that everyone should be welcomed with open arms and a full cup. Chinet Classic, Chinet Crystal, and Chinet Comfort products are all made in the USA with at least 80 percent recycled materials. Chinet brands products can handle anything from the sauciest ribs to the most generous slices of cake. Made to be microwave safe and leftovers' best friend, easy cleanup, environmentally conscious. Great for the upcoming holiday gatherings and perfect for all of life's get-togethers. Visit mychinet.com to find out more. 

[00:42:53] This episode is also sponsored in part by Glenfiddich. Glenfiddich breaks from the single malt scotch whisky norm, and helps redefine what it means to be rich. It's so easy these days to get bogged down in material success, the currency of the new rich, and that's you if you're listening to this, that's absolutely those that enjoy learning from a show, just like mine. That's getting more time and enjoyment out of what we've already got. And I believe in being rich in flexibility and freedom in how I use my time and my focus. These are the limited resources that most of us face these days. You know, if I want to play with my kid in the morning, instead of doing a bunch of stupid freaking meetings, that's what I'm going to do. That's rich to me. If I want to take an afternoon off work and go swimming with Jayden. That's what I want to pursue. I don't want to be bogged down with a bunch of stuff on the calendar — rich in time and focus. And unlike the majority of whisky companies, Glenfiddich, impressively, does not outsource any part of the production process. Unlike this show. From distillation and maturation to bottling, that's how Glenfiddich is able to maintain the highest quality and integrity of their whisky. 

[00:43:51] Jen Harbinger: Skillfully crafted, enjoy responsibly. Glenfiddich 2021 imported by William Grant and Sons Inc, New York, New York. 

[00:43:58] Jordan Harbinger: And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

[00:44:02] All right, Gabe. 

[00:44:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a recently graduated engineer who just started working full-time at the company where I interned and I've already been assigned a few projects. I quickly noticed that I'd been put onto a project that keeps getting pawned off to new employees. I've even gotten responses to meeting invites about the project. Like, "This is the gazillion at the time I've had this meeting." These co-workers don't have contempt for me, they've all been very supportive and I'm excited about the chance to prove myself as a full-time employee. But I want to make sure that I'm conveying confidence and I'm taken seriously as someone who is going to get the job done. Do you have any advice on how to get this extremely divisive project off the ground and instill confidence in my coworkers? Signed, A Driven Rookie, Trying to Earn That Cookie. 

[00:44:45] Jordan Harbinger: Great question and congrats on landing a job at the place where you interned. That actually says a lot about you. I'm not surprised that you got a tough project right out of the gate, and it sucks that they punted it to you. Also probably speaks to how much confidence they have in you. Also, as hard as this project is, it's also an amazing opportunity to prove that you can get sh*t done, especially something that everyone hates and probably never wants to see again, once it's actually done. 

[00:45:12] It's been a while since Gabe and I were in corporate life and we wanted to talk to an expert about your question. So we consulted with the illustrious Alisa Cohn. Alisa is a startup coach investor, author of the new book From Start-Up to Grown-Up, which we'll link in the show notes. And one of her many areas of expertise is handling difficult conversations, especially at work.

[00:45:32] And Alisa's first thought was to get a good handle on why this project has been such a cluster up until now. You need to know why no one's been able to put this thing down so you can avoid their mistakes. And Alisa's first piece of advice, create a mini informal focus group with your colleagues to get more background and context on this project. Grab 15 to 20 minutes with as many constituents of the project as possible or stakeholders wherever you want to call them. And ask them a few direct questions. Like one, what's been tried in the past, what has worked, what hasn't worked? Two, who are the detractors of this project and why, who are the allies that you can strategize with? Three,, if this project were completed, what would be true that is not true now? In other words, what would have to change for this project to be feasible? What requirements or resources or attitudes would need to shift to make this thing happen? And finally, what is one next step that everyone can agree on? 

[00:46:33] I might also preface this call by saying something like, "Look, I'm the new guy. I'm a fresh pair of eyes. I will not be offended by anything you want to tell me. I just want to get an accurate picture of what's been holding this up for so long so that I can avoid all of that and get this off of everyone's." That will lower your colleague's defenses, kind of short circuit their political instincts a bit, and it'll give you access to the real story you need to do a great job, because obviously something is up with this particular project and it's probably just a nightmare for many reasons. Once you get that story, figure out what the key sticking points are and come up with a plan to work around them. You could even summarize your plan in the short deck and present it to your managers. Like, "Hey, I did a little digging. This is what I've learned. This is what I'm planning to do differently. I thought you'd be interested to know," and then just get their feedback and buy-in, before you begin. That'll probably make you look like even more of a rockstar.

[00:47:27] So as Alisa pointed out, sometimes projects get stuck because of poor management. If this is a complicated project with a ton of dependencies, the issue might just be that nobody in the past actually took the time to specify the next steps and figure out the structure in the schedule, the meetings that would help move the project forward. It happens all the time. And if that's the case. Alisa recommends ending each of your meetings with her favorite three questions. One, what did we decide here? Two, who will do what, by when? and three, who else needs to know? Which is a great framework for any meeting by the way. And if you do all that, I think you'll find some great allies that will help you take this across the finish line.

[00:48:10] You'll also get to know your colleagues a bit better or a lot better, which is actually a smart way to combine your relationship building with this unpleasant task. I bet your peers will appreciate your whole approach and that's a killer first way for them to get to know you. On a related note, one secret about corporate life, according to Alisa, everyone wants to be associated with success. So once you get traction with this project, you'll probably find that a lot of your colleagues will jump on board. In fact, Alisa said she actually sees this as a big opportunity for you. If you can't get it done, nobody will be surprised or disappointed given the past. But if you can take this across the finish line, you'll be a hero around the office. 

[00:48:48] So the upside to being dealt a crappy hand like this is that if you make the most of it, you can come out even stronger. And then you have even more capital to say, "Hey, actually, I'd like to work on that project over there. I'm not as interested in this type of thing." And your bosses will probably honor that because you've earned your rep and your capital at that point. So go get it, do the work, avoid those landmines, and come up with your own approach. And trust that this will serve your career in ways that you can't even imagine yet. 

[00:49:18] We're also going to link to Alisa's book, From Start-Up to Grown-Up in the show notes, as I mentioned. We'll also link to Alisa's 5 Scripts for Delicate Conversations. That's a PDF, her newsletter. I highly recommend checking those out, especially in the position that you are in right now. So good luck. 

[00:49:32] By the way, you've heard me talk about what I'm doing lately to stay in shape. I hired a personal trainer. I should have done this years ago, and they're not a sponsor of the show or anything, but I just need to bump this program, Wrkout, W-K-O-U-T. They're based in Canada. It's all online training, but it's not like prerecorded. I mean, there's a trainer watching you on your webcam. I work out in the garage. My trainers are amazing. It's been such a life-changing thing for me in terms of getting more flexibility, being able to play on the floor with Jayden, roll around. I can walk further. I can run faster, jump farther. I mean, I feel super human compared to how I felt before. And it's not like this is the first time I worked out. I used to think, "I could work out and I know how to get to the gym. Why do I need to trainer?" This is not just someone stretching you out. It's not just someone yelling at you and motivating you. This is a totally different type of workout experience for me. And I cannot recommend it enough. So seriously, give yourself the gift of getting in a little bit of better shape this year and just making — I mean, hell you will thank me for this if you do it. Trust me. Anyway, check them out. workout.com, W-R-K-O-U-T.com. I became friends with everybody over there. They're offering a free 10-day trial. Plus if you tell them, Jordan Harbinger sent you, you'll get 20 percent off your first training package, W-R-K-O-U-T.com. It will change your life. 

[00:50:54] And I hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Sammy "The Bull" Gravano and his associated craziness if you haven't. 

[00:51:05] Want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships using systems and tiny habits? Check out our Six-Minute Networking course. The course is free. It's over on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty and build relationships before you need them. This is helpful in any profession, any career. These drills take just a few minutes per day. I wish I knew about them 20 years ago, but you know, better late than never. You can find it all at jordanharbinger.com/course. The course is free. 

[00:51:36] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi. 

[00:51:52] The show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel, Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions they're our own. And yes, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Alisa Cohn. Thanks Alisa for your sage counsel. Dr. Margolis' input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember, we rise by lifting others, share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. 

[00:52:43] If you're looking for another episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a trailer for another episode that I think you might enjoy. He stole over $18 million in diamonds and spent 11 years in some of the toughest federal prisons in the country.

[00:52:59] How did Larry Lawton wind up getting into the jewelry heist game in the first place? 

[00:53:03] Larry Lawton: I was always a hustler. I was 11, 12 years old doing football tickets, making money. I remember making 125 hours in a week in 1972. 

[00:53:14] Jordan Harbinger: That's $775 in today's money, three grand a month at age 12. 

[00:53:20] Larry Lawton: At age 12, I knew the hustle game.

[00:53:23] My first robbery was a guy wanted an insurance job. So when they want an insurance job, they called me and he said, "Larry, we got a job here, blah, blah, blah. Here's what it is. The guy wants his insurance. You're going to get to keep the jewelry and he's going to get his money and we'll get a cut of this action." I said, "Okay, good enough." Sure enough I had to set it up just like a robbery. And I tell when we talk about an adrenaline rush because the girl behind the counter had no idea. She actually reached for a gun. And I was so quick, you know, I jumped over the counter so quick and I said, "Are you crazy?" And I was pointing a gun at her and I had a BB gun. I didn't even have a gun, but it was a little bit quick. And I often laugh when people say, "I wish I had a gun." I say, "Trust me. I'll take that gun away from you, man." I mean, most people think, "Oh, when I have a gun, I'm going to be a badass." It doesn't work that way. 

[00:54:07] But listen, I've been stabbed twice, shot, car accidents in operations, and hit with a bat and you don't want to try this life. It's crazy, you know. I robbed so much jewelry in my life, probably 15, 18 million. There was no drug better than walking out of that store with X amount of dollars of diamonds. And not only that, there were some people who I robbed today. They were trying to rob me as a customer, literally. I said, in the back of my head, "You don't know you're getting robbed," but they were trying to rob you. And it was a total high. And I used to always want to be a fly on the wall, Jordan. See how long it took them to get out, see how long it took the cops to figure out what happened. Of course, I wouldn't. 

[00:54:52] Jordan Harbinger: For more with jewel thief, Larry Lawton, on how he planned and executed his heist, what he would do to hide his trail from the inevitable investigation, and how a business owner can ensure their place isn't the one chosen when a burglar is casing his business in search of an easy target, check out episode 432 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.