463: Saying Sayonara to Sister’s Swindling Sweetie | Feedback Friday

Transcript for Saying Sayonara to Sister’s Swindling Sweetie | Feedback Friday (Episode 463)

Jordan Harbinger: From the feedback Friday, I'm your host Jordan harbinger. And I'm here with my feedback Friday producer, my FBF BFF. If you will, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show right here, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how the amazing people on the show think and behave. And our mission here is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own brain.

[00:00:38] If you're new to the show, on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. If you're joining us for the first time, or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show, we now have episode starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes, organized by popular topics to help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com/start to get started. 

[00:01:08] This week, we had Erik Vance on why our brains are so darn suggestible. We go over things like implanted memories or false memories and the placebo effect. We also had my friend Linda Carroll on. She's an old favorite of the show here. You've heard her talk about love and why love just isn't enough and why there are actual practical concerns in relationships, and why loving is a skill. And it's not just a magical fleeting feeling that we can have sometimes if we're lucky.

[00:01:34] So make sure you've had a look and listened to all that we created for you here this week. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise that helps. Descriptive subject line, that helps make our job a little bit easier. If you're going through a big decision, you're wrestling with something, you want a new perspective on life, love, work, what to do if your child up and leaves without warning, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We are here to help. We keep every email anonymous. 

[00:02:02] Gabriel, I saw something funny the other day. I was looking at Reddit, which I often do, and I saw something called — so there's these ZIP codes where the people buy clothes that's not in fashion. They buy products that get discontinued. They trend in the opposite way of most other ZIP codes. Have you heard about this? 

[00:02:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, I haven't. So you mean like postal ZIP codes.

[00:02:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. They're postal ZIP codes, but the people in these ZIP codes, their property values, they decline over time. Their fashion that they buy is like stuff that gets discontinued. They buy failed products or products that fail. And so marketers look at these ZIP codes to see, "Oh, what are people buying? Oh, they're buying Juicero." That machine where you insert a packet and it juices things. And they're like, that's probably going to fail because all of these new things that trend in these neighborhoods do poorly— 

[00:02:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, interesting.

[00:02:51] Jordan Harbinger: —in the rest of the world.

[00:02:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: So they're using it for prediction marketing purposes.

[00:02:54] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. And they're called a harbinger ZIP codes. 

[00:02:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh nice.

[00:02:58] Jordan Harbinger: So I thought that was cool.

[00:03:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Should you get some royalties off that or something? 

[00:03:02] I feel like I should, yeah. It's also not a great indicator of my own household. 

[00:03:06] I was about to say, yeah, not something you'd necessarily want to be associated with. 

[00:03:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, no. By the way, Google Glass, that shit is the future. So if you haven't gotten your hands on those, get a pair of those Google Glasses, that film things. So those are going to be the next big deal. 

[00:03:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. People are riding Segways in O, five, four, six, three—

[00:03:22] Jordan Harbinger: That's right.

[00:03:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: —in 1998. 

[00:03:23] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. I'm going to take my Segway to the grocery store, right now and wear my Google Glass on the way.

[00:03:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's interesting though. I don't know if my ex-finance industry brain is going crazy right now, but I wonder if you know, like high-frequency traders or something are incorporating ZIP code data into their stock analysis. Do you know what I mean? 

[00:03:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:03:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like they could be like—

[00:03:41] Jordan Harbinger: Sure. 

[00:03:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: —you know, Juicero, if it went public, for example, and they're like, "Well, these zip codes are using it. Therefore, it's going to fail." And they incorporated it into their outlook for the stock and went to trade it or something like that. I can see them using data. In surprising ways. That's actually really interesting. 

[00:03:55] Jordan Harbinger: These are the people that have lead paint on their walls and they're like, "Hey, yeah, Google Glass, Segway," I'm trying to think of all these failed products. It's kind of hard to come up with, but everything that they buy, like they're just sitting there, housing, I don't know, RC Cola or something. I'm not sure. Actually RC Cola is still around. They've been around for a while. That's not a failed product

[00:04:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: They've been going around too, but maybe they have in a garage full of TaB.

[00:04:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, stuff like that.

[00:04:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Does that still exist? Does TaB soda still exist?

[00:04:20] Jordan Harbinger: That and Crystal Light. Remember that? 

[00:04:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, I don't even know what that is. 

[00:04:23] Jordan Harbinger: I think they first came up with aspartame. It's basically Kool-Aid for people who are on a diet and yeah, it's just Kool-Aid for people who are on a diet. So it's loaded with aspartame instead of sugar, and they used to have these aerobic championships where like Alan Thicke would host it. 

[00:04:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is the most 1980s sentence I've ever heard. 

[00:04:43] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yeah. They used to — Crystal Light used to have these aerobic championships, national aerobic championships. And it's the single most '80s thing that you've ever heard in your life. We'll link to it in the show notes. It's so funny, Gabe. I got to text you this video. I watched this at least once a year, just for a good laugh. It's so hilarious and awkward in every single way. I highly recommend you look for the 1988 Crystal Light National Aerobics Championship opening. 

[00:05:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's amazing.

[00:05:10] Jordan Harbinger: Not the actual competition. It'll knock your socks off.

[00:05:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fun fact, TaB was discontinued in October 2020, just another casualty of the—

[00:05:19] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

[00:05:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. So TaB doesn't exist. I remember my mom used to buy them from like Smart & Final in the '90s. That was probably, I don't know if that was the wisest decision. I feel like there was some scandal between TaB having saccharin and some studies about bladder cancer or something like that.

[00:05:34] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:05:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: But we only have it — that was like a two-week period. It was very exciting. And then I think there was no TaB to be found in the house after that.

[00:05:39] Jordan Harbinger: Bummer.

[00:05:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: But yeah, no longer.

[00:05:41] Jordan Harbinger: Anyway, that was from I think the Jonah Berger episode, or maybe it was from his book, which was episode 414, and we'll link to that in the show notes. And for those of you who wonder, why it took so long to get past the opening today, this is Feedback Friday. It's a different format than the regular show. Don't worry. We don't usually dig around this long.

[00:05:56] Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? 

[00:05:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabriel. My 38-year-old sister, who after a nasty divorce has custody of her three young kids and her new 45-year-old boyfriend who's twice divorced and also has three young kids — these two are moving their relationship at a breakneck speed. A few months back, they tried and failed to get a mortgage in order to build a house on a pretty valuable property that my sister owns. Next the boyfriend pushed hard to sell the property in order to be able to buy and renovate a rundown house outside of the city. My sister prematurely signed at the purchasing contract, but failed to sell her property in time, leaving my parents to bail out my sister and actually buy the rundown house to the tune of 600,000 euros. 

[00:06:39] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. 

[00:06:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not what I would call easily affordable. My parents then offered the boyfriend to move into the empty apartment in their house that they and my sister currently live in. They are offering him the apartment rent-free only requiring him to sign a borrowing agreement, which essentially ensures that my parents can kick him out in case it doesn't work out with my sister. Tenants protection in my country is extensive. And without such a specific agreement, the boyfriend would have the legal right to continue living in the apartment for forever for free.

[00:07:09] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. Yeah, definitely do not do that. 

[00:07:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: After initially, agreeing to the idea the boyfriend is now refusing to sign any written agreement at all. He's saying that this would not be a family setup and is therefore unacceptable to him. He's also seemingly offended that his word wasn't good enough. My parents and I feel that the boyfriend is actively trying to push my sister away from the family and into making more stupid financial decisions. She's currently living mainly off of her investments. He, on the other hand, has stated his contempt for landlords and other fat cats and big wigs. 

[00:07:41] I wonder if that's a direct quote or if it's that, this guy's like editorializing but those are great terms. 

[00:07:45] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I'm just imagining some guys sitting there and being like, "Hey fat cat, you think you're a big shot?" 

[00:07:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: While he ashes his cigar in the living room. 

[00:07:53] Jordan Harbinger: Right, exactly. Like who, who talks like this? Does he wear a Derby? Is he from — what's that show? Boardwalk Empire, which is like 19 — is he a 1920s bootlegger?

[00:08:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. He's like a boyfriend out of a screwball comedy. 

[00:08:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Good Lord. 

[00:08:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: He has talk disrespectfully about my parents and the way that they made their money in construction and apartment rentals and repeatedly made fun of them in front of me and not in a cute way. Meanwhile, his kids are already calling me uncle and my parents, granny and grandpa.

[00:08:24] Jordan Harbinger: Awkward.

[00:08:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oomph.

[00:08:25] My sister has low self-esteem, especially since the divorce and has been throwing herself headfirst into every new relationship. Maybe because her ex-husband had and is still having an affair with her ex-best friend of 20 years. 

[00:08:38] Jordan Harbinger: That sucks. I totally get, having low self-esteem if that happened to you.

[00:08:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: The current boyfriend is number three, post-divorce, not counting any of her friends with benefits. She was already scammed once out of 30,000 euros. That's about $35,000 by another boyfriend last year. She has pressed criminal charges against that guy. Now, my sister has threatened to move into a huge rented apartment with the new guy. Without knowing the exact details, we fear that she will ultimately need to foot the bill for this, severely impacting her financial stability. Can you give me any advice on how to handle this situation from here on out so I can help my parents and my sister see the situation from a more detached point of view? Signed, Safeguarding my Sister from a Scammy Sponge. 

[00:09:20] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. These scam stories just keep getting crazier and crazier, huh, Gabe?

[00:09:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, totally.

[00:09:25] Jordan Harbinger: This is incredibly sad, this one, but it's also insanely brazen. Like this guy, this new boyfriend, he's not even hiding the fact that he's warming his way into this family, sponging off of their money and their generosity. He's so entitled. It's so transparent. I'm shocked that the sister doesn't see what's happening here. I'm also not right, because I think it just speaks to how desperately she needs love and security and how little she thinks of herself. And man, it is just yet another reminder that money and mental health are so closely related. It's something people don't talk about as much as they should. The money self-esteem relationship is very real and it has a real impact on your entire life. It's something that — if we could find a reasonable expert to talk about this and not someone who's like, "Just believe and the universe will provide." I would love to do a show about this kind of thing, because there has to be money in psychology studies galore, but I haven't found anybody, who's not a complete quack and is trying to sell like a pyramid scheme at the end of the book.

[00:10:24] So look, this situation is complicated, but the solution is pretty simple. You and your family need to intervene as soon as possible. And I would take the lead here, set up a private meeting outside of the house with your parents and have a brutally honest conversation about what you guys think is happening with your sister and her boyfriend. You guys need to be in total agreement about what this guy is doing to your sister and how she is enabling it. No hemming and hawing. No sugarcoating, justifying, none of that. Get your parents to acknowledge that this guy is running an ongoing scam on your family and compromising your sister's financial stability.

[00:11:01] And then get them to recognize their role in allowing it to happen, bailing out your sister, offering them a place to stay. You guys need to arrive at a firm position about what needs to change and — and this is the most important part — what you guys will and will not do about all of this moving forward. That could mean demanding that your sister break up with this freeloading tool ASAP. It could mean not offering him that apartment. 

[00:11:25] And by the way, I would never let him move in if it's going to be impossible to remove him later. Just never do that. The whole like, "Oh, you don't think my word is good enough?" Like, no, I wouldn't let anyone live with me. I wouldn't let my cousin live with me without a written agreement. If I could never remove him. That's insane. No, you want to have it written so that everyone understands everything. This whole thing like, "Oh my word, it's not good enough." This is just manipulation. It's so obvious. It's just a manipulation. If you don't think your word is good enough for something fine, but you don't throw that in someone's face and then refuse to sign you sign and then say, "Hey, I'm a little offended that my word wasn't good enough, but all right, here's your signature." You don't refuse out of some vague sense of principle to not sign because it's not a family setup that is just complete hogwash. They're not married. Right? If they were married, I would kind of get it. But yeah, he's a random boyfriend who's already shown that he is fully capable of screwing up all of his past relationships. So hell no to that. 

[00:12:23] Anyway, your parents should also refuse to bail out your sister when she makes bad decisions and they need to be standing up to her boyfriend's verbal abuse, or just not allowing him to visit the house at all. I'll leave it to you and your parents to decide what those boundaries are. But I think you can tell where we stand in the matter. This guy, he is a freaking ruthless parasite, an unmitigated, dumpster fire, probably a straight up financial predator. And candidly just sounds like an entitled prick from the jump. I wouldn't want to be around this guy for one minute. I would choke this guy out if this guy was in my house, seriously. But if she won't break up with him, then you need to know, draw some lines and keep him away from you guys, both physically and financially, because this can damage your sanity. And it can damage your entire family. This guy is a cancerous parasite. 

[00:13:06] And after you guys have that meeting, then schedule a sit down with your sister and tell her your position. Remember you need to be on the same page with your parents and family first. Then you guys talked to your sister after you need to be on the same page first. And at the risk of sounding corny, start this conversation with a nice long earnest hug, because I think your sister probably really needs that right now, especially from you. You want her to feel supported and safe with you guys before you delve into the difficult stuff. Then without getting too accusatory or emotional without shaming her about all of this, which might be kind of hard, lay out the situation as you see it. Tell her that from your point of view, she's dating a guy who has a messy past, he's got a sketchy financial situation. It's a guy who's clearly trying to take advantage of her financially. He treats you, the family with contempt. He's putting her at serious risk. He's putting our kids at serious risk. He's putting his own kids at risk. I wouldn't get into her psychology and why she fell for this guy in the first place. That is definitely another conversation, probably between her and a therapist, honestly.

[00:14:06] I would just focus on the fact. She'll probably get defensive. She'll probably be embarrassed and pushed back on all of this. You should be ready for that. Your goal is to get her to acknowledge the facts, the reckless sale, the huge bailout, the refusal to sign the agreement which is fishy to say the least, the snide comments, disrespect, all that stuff. Because your sister, she can argue all day about whether her boyfriend means well or really loves her, but she cannot argue with facts. So keep asking her very simple questions. Like, "Does that sound like it was a good financial decision? Why did you do that so quickly? Why do you think he got so mad about signing the agreement? Do you see any connection between what's happening with this guy and what happened with your past boyfriend?" Keep asking these questions in a very calm way, very non-confrontational way. Not the way I just listed them off to you until she has to acknowledge the reality of what is happening. And it might take some time and she will get defensive. But all you have to do is stay the course here. 

[00:15:02] I don't know. Gabe, do you think something like that's going to work? Because this guy, this is a con artist, even if the guy's not as smart, like an actual conscious con man, he's still a parasite/con man. That much is so obvious to me. 

[00:15:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I hope that that conversation will be a come to Jesus moment for her and she'll realize what a mess she's in. And if she does seem to be open to that, if she does seem to come around, then I would be prepared to help your sister do what she has to do to extricate herself from this relationship. That probably means coming up with a plan to break up with him, making sure that she's safe while she's doing that, protecting whatever assets she still has, disentangling any money stuff. I'm really hoping that part isn't necessary. Like I really hope they haven't opened any joint bank accounts or bought any assets together, but—

[00:15:46] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God.

[00:15:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: —you did say that they applied for a joint mortgage, so that part could get a little bit tricky. You might need a family attorney of some kind, if you have on. If not, I would get one or maybe an accountant to help you with that and give some good impartial advice, grounded in law and finance to take some of the emotion out of the situation. 

[00:16:03] But while you do all of that, make sure that you are still supporting your sister, forgiving her, making her feel comfortable, opening up to you. Because the last thing you want is for your sister to feel like you guys are somehow ganging up on her, judging her, maybe even punishing her in some sense and then run back to the boyfriend. Like, "You were right! My family really is the worst. They don't get us at all. You know, you're the only one it gets me." And then I don't know, apply for an $800,000 line of credit at HSBC so they can go buy four Jet Skis and a lake house in Geneva for when they need to escape together or whatever, you know. Sadly, I think that's a very real possibility given your sister's patterns. So you guys need to make her feel that the real source of love and understanding is you and your parents, not this two-bit cancerous con artist.

[00:16:45] Jordan Harbinger: But if that intervention doesn't work, then you need to go to plan B, right? That's where those boundaries we just talked about come into play. If your sister refuses to break up with this guy, then you guys need to articulate clearly and unequivocally what you guys will be doing in response. Like we said, that's up to you to decide, but if I were you, I would tell your sister that the family will not bail her out ever again. So that she understands that she has to live with the consequences of her decisions here. I would also refuse to let the boyfriend stay in that apartment like I said, certainly without that signed agreement. But honestly, even with one, I just don't see why you would want this guy hanging around your family home.

[00:17:23] And if you're still going to let him come over, I would tell your sister what behavior you will and won't put up with when he comes around. I know that seems like a footnote in this massive shit show. But I think the fact that you guys have been taking this guy's insults on the chin, that's sending a signal to him that he can get away with anything he wants. He's pushing the boundaries. These are tests. This is not him being like, "I just do whatever I want." This is him testing to see what he can get away with. So tell her that and make sure that she understands that these aren't just empty threats. This is the family position and you are all on the same page and you are sticking to it. And then actually stick to it. 

[00:17:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And that's going to be the hardest part for them, for sure. You know, in nine months when this guy makes another shitty real estate play and that goes belly up and your sister needs to be bailed out again, it's going to be extremely difficult to sit back and let it happen. So you might have to watch her freak out. You might have to watch her downgrade her lifestyle, or I don't know. I hope this doesn't happen, but even, maybe run out of money. And she might rage at you guys for not stepping in and saving her again. She might blame you for all of her problems. She might even stop speaking to you for a little while. I'm not trying to paint a horrible scenario. I'm just preparing you for the worst-case scenario, but you're going to have to let her do that. And that will be incredibly painful, I'm guessing, because you guys sound very tight-knit and you sound very enmeshed and I'm sure it's not natural for you guys to stand up and not intervene when something goes wrong.

[00:18:41] But that's why you need to know what your boundaries are before that happens. Like Jordan was saying, make sure that she knows what they are. So there are no surprises down the road, because if you don't, then you guys are going to be on the hook to bail your sister out for the rest of her life, potentially financially and emotionally. And that's not only putting your parents at risk, it's also dysfunctional. It's pretty unfair. And actually, it's depriving your sister of the accountability that she needs to be a responsible person. You know, an autonomous adult who's in charge of her own life and is willing and ready to live with the consequences.

[00:19:10] Jordan Harbinger: So that's what we would do. I'm so sorry that you're in this situation. I can only imagine how creepy it must be to just watch this guy invade your family, like some kind of con artists, Coronavirus. People like this are dangerous. They're gross, you know, they're gross. And sadly, there are certain people like your sister and who are the perfect host for these parasites. And I hope you can get her to wake up, but if you can't, you're going to have to let her go her own way and live with the consequences. Just make sure you and your parents are protecting yourselves so that your sister and her boyfriend don't take you guys down with them. Good luck. 

[00:19:46] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back.

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[00:22:12] And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:22:17] All right, what's next?

[00:22:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, I am the most average cliche American guy alive. I'm a 30 years old, Caucasian cisgender heterosexual and relatively fit with no real health issues or even allergies. It hasn't been an easy life, but as far as the genetic lottery is concerned, I've won the privilege jackpot. I try to support those who are less privileged than me by amplifying their messages, educating myself and being mindful of my impact on others. As most conversations these days seem to revolve around injustice as they should, I'm struggling to find a comfortable way to participate as I believe it is not my voice that needs to be heard. I cannot speak for anyone else yet. I feel very passionately about finding solutions to the many inequalities that other people face. So my questions are how can I contribute to these conversations in a responsible way? Should I focus less on solutions and more on understanding? And how should I approach a conversation differently, depending on whether I'm speaking with someone like me? Signed, A Woke Bloke, Trying Not to Choke with The Other Folks.

[00:23:19] Jordan Harbinger: This is a really good question. It's one we've been getting a lot lately. And as much as I'm sort of over a lot of the virtual signaling stuff, I think a lot of people feel like they're being pulled in a few different directions, social justice wise these days. Confused about whether their job is to be more compassionate or to quietly advocate for change, or just go full balls to the wall. Viva la revolución, right? People talk about being an ally. But what does that actually mean? Does it mean privately supporting the people you know? Does it mean re-tweeting BLM posts and putting pronouns in your bio? Does it mean grabbing a bullhorn and some Molotov cocktails and hitting the streets? You know it's hard to know the right thing to do as a self-described privileged person right now. 

[00:23:58] So I get your dilemma and I appreciate your humility and self-awareness and asking about it. Let me say as a Caucasian cisgender heterosexual relatively but recently, slightly less fit guy with no real health issues or even allergies myself, I think I can say I'm uniquely qualified to weigh in and how to be a more woke human being here in 2021 and get those sweet, sweet social justice internet points. But seriously, I think your instinct is correct. This time isn't about you and educating yourself, being more empathetic, more understanding, more curious, that's absolutely the right approach. For most people — and I absolutely consider myself in this camp — there was an awareness and knowledge gap that had to be filled in these last few years. Before we could even consider what the right solutions were and not to be Pollyanna-ish here, but I do think that that awareness, that empathy, that actually can create change on a micro day-to-day level. Just by bringing us closer to people who are different from us, by making us identify with issues that are not our own. 

[00:24:52] And I mean — look, posting a black square on Instagram or voting for a certain proposition or supporting diverse candidates at work, those actions don't mean very much if you don't actually appreciate why you are doing what you are doing, if you don't even care in the first place. In fact, I think just posting the latest trending thing and putting pronouns in your name is called slacktivism. Because it doesn't require you to do anything, which must be nice for some people, right? It's kind of an excuse to just go like, "It's performative," right? That's the word, du jour.

[00:25:21] Gabe, so is it the first part of this? 

[00:25:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, definitely. I mean, the understanding, the awareness that's key. It's certainly a first step. Anyway, it's an important first step. And I think that just means having meaningful conversations. The kind of conversations that this guy wants to have, asking good questions, listening, being open to new ideas, reading different sources, trying to appreciate what every side of an issue has to say. I think it means being willing to be surprised and challenged and sometimes a little uncomfortable, maybe a lot uncomfortable. And it also means talking to people who are different from you, if they're open to it, of course. I mean, you don't want to be that white guy at work asking every person of color in the building about their experience or whatever. 

[00:25:57] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah. You don't want to be that guy who's like, "So what's it like being a minority? I just found it so fascinating." 

[00:26:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. But yeah, when it's appropriate asking other people what they're going through, how they see the world, what they think needs to change. And then again, listening and incorporating that data into your own worldview. Now, that doesn't mean that all you have to do is say, "Oh, I care about marginalized people. Now, I guess, my work here is finished." Obviously, that's just performative wokeness. That's the slacktivism that Jordan was just talking about. I think we can all agree that there's way too much of that lately. I just mean that the empathy part of this, that definitely has to come first. And then you can decide what you want to do about it. And we can't tell you exactly what those solutions should be. That's up to you to decide. You should decide that. But I think the key is really applying your understanding in ways that are meaningful for you.

[00:26:42] So if you have this new awareness about — I don't know, let's just say a lack of diversity in your company. Then maybe you start nurturing different kinds of talent in your department, or you look for candidates who you would normally hire or something like that. Or if you feel like your congressperson isn't taking inequality seriously, maybe you canvas or you phone bank for another candidate in the next election, that kind of thing. Because the truth is you can parrot some article you read in the New Yorker. And I know a lot of people who do. Or you can retweet Robin DiAngelo as much as you want. But if you're not going to step up and do something at some point, then those ideas — do they really mean all that much? I mean, I feel like, yeah, your heart's in the right place and that's great, but your heart is just the first step. The end game is actually making a difference, even if that difference is just within your own sphere. 

[00:27:24] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. And by the way, that's why I helped lead that professional development workshop at High Desert State Prison last year. Because I realized how desperately these inmates needed support as they reenter society. And I wanted to actually do something about it. The understanding came first, but then I put that understanding into action in a way that felt organic to what I do for a living. In a way that I could make meaningful, like Gabe just said. I could have raised money or made phone calls or donated to a halfway house or any number of helpful things. But it chose the workshop because that's how I felt I could make the most impact and everyone's different. 

[00:27:57] And by the way, shout out to the 72 show fans who came with me to the prison in February 2020 before the planet shutdown. My biggest regret in that was not having more time to spend with everyone. I felt a little bit like I sort of short-changed everyone. I didn't get a chance to hang. So I hope we get to do it again after we all get our arms jabbed. So I hope this helps, man. I commend you for wanting to broaden your perspective without becoming that annoying holier than now, cringe woke white guy who ends up alienating everyone around him. I definitely think you're on the right track. Understanding first, then concrete action, but never at the expense of just being a decent human being who can relate to anybody. Use that as your north star. And I think you'll be great. 

[00:28:36] All right, what's next?

[00:28:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I'm in my third year of working as a teacher and the situation at my school is not the best. Physically, the school needs a lot of work. There's no heat, no air conditioning, there's mold, no supplies. And my principal has been known to gaslight and either love the teachers and support them or throw them under the bus or go through experiencing both in the same day. For example, there was mold in my classroom recently. I brought it up to my principal. She denied it was mold and I was yelled at for making her school look bad. One of my students has severe behavioral problems. And as a newer teacher, I still need support and direction that are not being given. Rules and procedures consistently change. And it seems that no matter what I do, I'm always in the wrong in my principal's eyes if she's in the mood for me to be wrong. I love my students, but it is a taxing environment to be in. 100 percent of the students are considered low income and we aren't in the best part of town. I love teaching and I don't know what else I would do with my career, but I don't think it would be sustainable to continue to work in a toxic environment like this for much longer. My plan was to leave last year, but then the pandemic happened and I'm still here. I don't know if the grass would be greener at another school. And I'm just so tired of jumping through hoops. This was my dream career since I was a child and I don't know what else I would even do with my life, but it seems like I need to figure some things out. I'm 24 and I want to find a happy balance with work and life, as well as finding more sustainable joy in my career. Do you have any advice on what I should do? Signed, Looking for My Homeroom.

[00:30:04] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this is incredibly frustrating. Here's the exact kind of person we need teaching our kids in the classroom. And she's considering leaving because the system is so frigging dysfunctional. I feel like there was a season of The Wire about this, speaking of what white people like, right? Where the white guy got fired from the police department, ended up teaching fourth grade at a public school and found an old computer in the supply closet. He turned out to be an amazing teacher. But like, there was only so much he could do with the resources he had. 

[00:30:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah, Pryzbylewski. 

[00:30:32] Jordan Harbinger: I can't really remember. I binge-watched the whole thing when I got my tonsils out in 2006. I was on codeine. It was a little bit of a blur. 

[00:30:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that's too bad because that show is incredible. I'm bummed that you don't remember that 

[00:30:43] Jordan Harbinger: I only remember when the guy kidnapped the homeless guy and pretended to be his son or something like that. 

[00:30:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, I don't remember that. Man, I need to go back and rewatch it. That show is incredible. 

[00:30:52] Jordan Harbinger: He kidnapped a homeless guy, moved him to a different town. I can't exactly remember. Anyway, tough situation, I do have some thoughts. My mom was a public school teacher in a rough area, by the way, doing special education, which can add yet another layer of bullshit on top of all the other crap you're dealing with or that she was dealing with. She had tons of problems with the administration, very similar reasons. She was upset about it a lot. I remember her crying and stuff after work. It's weird to see your mom crying for that kind of reason. She ended up retiring a little bit early, which is a shame because she actually really did care about the kids. 

[00:31:25] So yeah, I had a front row seat to this exact issue growing up. And in many ways I know how you feel because I've seen it with my own eyes. And by the way, this is about a teacher struggling in a difficult school. But what we're talking about here, it really does apply to anyone in any field feeling frustrated and trying to decide if they should stick with their job or jump ship and make a change.

[00:31:47] So, first I think what you're dealing with is what a lot of teachers around the world, definitely teachers in this country are facing: limited resources, rampant mismanagement, political administrators, crappy senseless policies. The list goes on and on. You're not alone there. In one way, that's super depressing, but in another way, you should know that it's not entirely about you. And if other teachers are going through the same thing, then there are probably some good ways to cope with the challenges. Work within the system to change things. Or if all else fails, find a way to just dodge all this bureaucratic BS. 

[00:32:22] So my first question for you. Is whether you've been getting to know other teachers and asking them about their experience. This could be other teachers at your school. Educators you meet on LinkedIn. Educational theorists who are writing about this stuff. Even former teachers who left to do something else. Anyone who would be good for you to talk to right now. If you haven't, I highly recommend building those relationships. You can really use some perspective from other people in your shoes right now. Maybe there are approaches or techniques or people who could help you make this school situation workable for you. Maybe there are stories or experiences that would help you see your job in a new way. Or maybe you just need someone in your field to say, "Yeah, what you're going through. It sucks. It's not okay. And here are some things we've been doing to fix it." Or maybe you'll meet someone who can show you another path within the world of education that you hadn't even considered.

[00:33:11] Gabe, what if the situation at the school doesn't change and she can't find a way to accept it?

[00:33:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then I would really encourage you to consider your options. I know that this has been your dream career since you were a kid and you don't know what else you would do with your life. I totally hear you. I love your commitment. I really do. But the truth is you are an incredibly passionate teacher who's working in a system that just cannot or will not honor your contribution. I know it sucks. You could argue about who's really at fault about all that, but there it is. Also you're 24, like you were 24 years old. You were so young, you're in a stage of life right now where changing jobs or even changing careers, it's not just possible. It's also important to try new things and see where it leads you. 

[00:33:51] I know you said that you want to find more sustainable joy in your career. And from what I'm hearing, you're just not finding it in this job. So I would encourage you to listen to that voice. You've been at this for two years now. I'm guessing that's enough times to know if you're in a healthy environment, a productive environment. And if you're not, then I would encourage you to start exploring other ways that you could share your gifts with your students or with other people. And there are a lot of them out there. You could teach at a better school in your district or in your state. You could even move to another state. You could teach at a charter school, which even though charter schools are, I know another far from perfect, but they're often better managed and better resourced than some of the public schools around. You could teach at a private school. If that's something you're into. You could tutor students one-on-one. You could start your own tutoring service. I don't know. You could get your master's in education and go into education management or become an instructor at a private company. I mean, you could become a professor of education. I'm just totally running with every possibility here, but there are so many ways that you could still be in the classroom, but maybe teaching the next generation of teachers or something like that. Or if you really want to, you could leave the classroom altogether and take your talent to another field where you could create a whole new role for yourself. That's even more fulfilling than the one that you're in right now. 

[00:34:53] I know, like four people off the top of my head who taught elementary school for three or four years. They're now working at — let me think — tech company, non-profit, magazine, you name it. I mean, they all love the years that they spent teaching. They still talk about how valuable it was to start there, but they're doing other exciting things now and they're loving that. So obviously that's up for you to decide. I know that's kind of the choice you're trying to figure out, but you don't need to make that decision tomorrow. But I can tell you that there is a huge world of opportunity for somebody like you, especially at your age. And there's really no reason for you to feel stuck in a situation that just isn't designed to let you do your best work. 

[00:35:26] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. So my advice, plain and simple is this, start building relationships with other educators. Like it's your job because it is. Schedule Zooms, coffee chats with their colleagues, whatever, get to know the other teachers and administrators in your district. Treat yourself to a month of LinkedIn Premium — we actually have a code for what I think is LinkedIn Sales Navigator, but it's kind of the same thing. linkedin.com/JHS is where you can find our little deal there. Reach out to every person in education who seems interesting to you. 

[00:35:54] Ask them about their career paths, their views on education, what they would do in your shoes, what you can do to be building your career, how you can help them. One day, one of these people will send you a job posting or make an introduction for you or write you a recommendation letter. And you'll suddenly find yourself stepping into a whole new role. And it'll be really exciting, but you have to take those relationships seriously first. We have a whole course on this. You've heard me say it a million times. Jordanharbinger.com/course is where that is, Six-Minute networking. This is digging the well before you get thirsty, right? 

[00:36:25] At the same time, get curious about what other options are out there for you. A lot of this will come from the conversations we just talked about., but you should also spend some time researching job postings, career resources, blog posts, articles, all that good stuff. Start thinking of yourself as somebody who's passionate about education in general, rather than somebody who's stuck in a classroom in particular. Start to daydream about new possibilities for yourself, even if they feel kind of remote. I know this sounds cheesy, but it's actually really important. 

[00:36:56] And one final thought, no, that your career, your situation, your life, that's up to you to decide. I know you feel stuck right now. I know the pan-D got in the way of your job search. I know you're tired of jumping through hoops. But it's not just jumping through hoops, if you're working your way toward a career that fulfills you. The joy you're looking for, it doesn't fall out of the freaking sky, especially for a teacher and especially for someone who's 24. You're 24. You have to create that joy. And as daunting as it seems right now, creating that joy, that's actually where a lot of the joy comes from itself because being disempowered, being gaslighted. Is it gaslit, Gabe, or gaslighted? I don't even know. 

[00:37:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm not sure. I've never heard it in that frame, gaslit, gaslighted.

[00:37:34] Jordan Harbinger: Gaslighted sounds more, I'm not sure. Anyway, being undermined in a toxic environment, that's a recipe for burnout. It's a recipe for anger, depression, which now that I think about it, that actually explains a lot about my teachers growing up and certainly describes some of what my mother went through in the '90s. But the moment you take the reins back, I think you'll find a lot of the passion you feel you've lost. And that will propel you into a much better position. 

[00:37:59] If it makes you feel any better, I felt like I didn't get my feet under me until I was like 35. So in other words, you got a ton of time, even if you're a bit of a late bloomer like me. So start thinking like that. See what opens up for you. I wish I had a teacher like you when I was in school. Any place would be lucky to have you. Good luck. 

[00:38:18] This is The Jordan Harbinger Show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. 

[00:38:22] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. The new year, it's a great time for a mental health check in. If you've always wanted to try therapy or you thought about it, or you didn't really think about it, but you feel like you might need it, go for it now is the time. Better Help offers licensed professional therapists who are trained to listen and help with issues. Together, therapists and clients identify problems, set goals, monitor progress, and a therapist can lead you through the storm and into the calm. I know it can be intimidating and time-consuming to find a therapist, but with Better Help, you fill out a questionnaire. They'll assign one in 48 hours. Secure video and phone sessions plus unlimited messages with your therapist. You could be on your own couch. You don't need to go to their couch. No driving, no parking. Everything you share is confidential. Of course, you can switch counselors at any time. Please do take care of your mental health. It's not worth letting things go for too long.

[00:39:09] Jen Harbinger: Better Help is a convenient and affordable option. And our listeners get 10 percent off your first month with the discount code JORDAN. Get started today at betterhelp.com/jordan. There's no shame in asking for it. 

[00:39:21] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by LifeLock. You all know I talk about scams all the time. I use LifeLock because — well, especially now, scammers are using the whole stimulus thing, the whole pandemic thing to scam payments and tax refunds. It happens every year. It's even worse this year. Links in emails or text messages could be dangerous. Malware, phishing, scams, even smart people get duped by this. So it's important to understand how cybercrime and identity theft are affecting our lives, yours and your loved ones. Everyday we're putting stuff on the Internet. Savings, credit reputation can be gone in a poof, right? Just one false move. That's why I use LifeLock. LifeLock detects a wide range of identity threats, like your social security number for sale on the dark web, which I have found mine there, which is, you know, great. If they detect your information has potentially been compromised. They let you know. Then you get access to a dedicated restoration specialist if you become a victim. So you're not doing this all yourself and trying to figure it out on the fly. Remember, nobody can prevent all identity theft or monitor every transaction at every business, but you can keep your own stuff safe. So join now and save up to 25 percent off your first year of LifeLock. Just go to lifelock.com/jordan. That's lifelock.com/jordan for 25 percent off. 

[00:40:33] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and/or services? You can always visit jordanharbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

[00:40:52] Last but not least. 

[00:40:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan, I've been introducing people to each other recently because I thought the connection would be mutually beneficial, but the introductions have gone awry more often than not. When this happens, I feel like I've dinged my own reputation. Nobody blames me for this. So I'm not sure whether it's really a problem, but it has made me reluctant to make any referrals. One time I recommended a grad school friend to a lawyer who needed his tech services. I only heard the lawyer's side afterward, but she described his behavior as incredibly bizarre, which kind of made me look like an idiot for referring him. Another time I recommended an engineer I knew to a headhunter, and then he wouldn't answer the headhunter's emails, even though I had spoken to him about the referral beforehand. And he said he was interested in the job. When I emailed him to ask him why he wasn't replying. He sent me a very strange one-word email that merely said, thanks, and didn't address my concern at all. 

[00:41:41] Jordan Harbinger: So let me stop you right there. How annoying is that person? 

[00:41:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: So infuriating.

[00:41:46] Jordan Harbinger: So infuriating. It makes me want to just punch those people because I'm like, how selfish are you right now? How entitled are you? This is why you don't have the job you want you a-hole. I hate people who do that stuff. Like I'm too busy to deal with the fact that I asked you to do me a favor, and then you did it, ugh, anyway. Go ahead. 

[00:42:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Most recently I connected a friend who is a filmmaker with a pair of artists who are supposed to work on some promotional material for him. The artists claimed that they never got paid. And the filmmaker claimed that the work he got was whatever the artist felt like drawing rather than what he had asked for. Both parties came away unsatisfied. Do you have any advice to prevent this from happening again or to mitigate it somehow when it does happen? Signed, Avoiding Destruction in My Introductions.

[00:42:30] Jordan Harbinger: So when an introduction goes badly, it's usually from one of two reasons, either you didn't vet one or both parties properly and you made a subpar connection. Or you did vet the people but for reasons that are outside of your control, the relationship didn't work out the way that you'd hoped. The second reason happens from time to time. It's not entirely your fault. It sounds like maybe that's what happened with the filmmaker and the artists. 

[00:42:52] Gabe, this is one of those things I've learned the hard way too, where it's you hire somebody, who's an artist and you can't quite communicate what you want. And then they give you something and it's not what you want. I've started to hire only agencies that have art directors, which is basically a person who's in charge of communicating with the artists. And then if it's not right, it's all of their fault because you have a statement of work and it's really clear and dah, dah, dah. I've never been able to tell an artist what I want and get what I want. So I know that I'm part of the problem. So it's just a thing. 

[00:43:23] The first situation where you make a connection for somebody who just completely bungles the introduction or doesn't live up to it, the tech guy and the engineer, as annoying as that engineer is. I just want to slap that guy. That's definitely a sign that something is off in your approach. Since it seems to be a bit of a pattern with you lately, it's definitely worth addressing. The good news, it's totally fixable. Good on you for wanting to do that. My advice is this, from now on only make introductions that you are, let's say 90 percent confident about, I don't say a hundred percent. You're never going to get to a hundred percent. If I say a hundred percent, you're never going to introduce anyone to anyone again. So I don't want to go there. I don't want to go that high but let's say 90 percent. 

[00:44:00] If you went back and thought about your grad school friend or the engineer, I bet you'd find one or two signs that something was off. Maybe they were a little dismissive when you hung out, maybe they were kind of sketchy or hard to pin down, or you felt like you were convincing them to take the introduction. Maybe they weren't very gracious or hardworking. Maybe you didn't notice those qualities at the time, or you discounted them because you didn't want to acknowledge the truth hard to say. Or, this is also possible, you just didn't know these people very well. So there was an absence of data to work with, which means you took a bit of risk in introducing them. Either way, you made introductions for these people without knowing if they'd honor the value of that introduction. 

[00:44:38] So from now on, if you introduce two people, make sure they both share a story, basic level of interest, appreciation, and value. If someone seems unreliable or ungrateful or sketchy, don't make the introduction. There's literally no downside to not making a subpar introduction. I hate the double negative there, but I couldn't really avoid it. Being more selective about whom you introduce will only help your social capital, even if you make fewer introductions overall. The only exception to this in my book anyway, is if you don't know one or either party super well. You're rolling the dice and introducing them. And one or both parties know that it might not work out. 

[00:45:16] I talked about this once on a recent episode, how I introduced a random guy I met at a party to a real estate agent I didn't know too well. Because the upside to connecting them, it seemed higher than the downside of missing out on the connection. But even in that situation where I didn't know the people super well, I made sure that the buyer wasn't a total pain in the ass and was actually serious about buying a house. And I knew for a fact that the real estate agent was legit and good at his job. So even with my limited information, I was still vetting these people, mostly based on what I gleaned about them from our conversation, my instinct, my sense of them as people. 

[00:45:51] And over the years, my standards for that have gotten pretty high. I feel comfortable making those introductions without knowing everything there is to know about somebody. But if you ever have any doubts and even if you don't always use the double opt-in and we teach this in Six-Minute Networking. If you invite both parties to opt-in to the introduction before you make it, that will lower the risk of you being on the hook if it goes poorly. Give both parties the full rundown of who the other person is. Tell them if you don't know the other person very well, let them decide if it's an introduction, they want to accept. That way if it doesn't pan out, it's not going to look like you made a bad call because everybody kind of came armed with the same information.

[00:46:28] Now, there's always some risk in networking. Every now and again, an introduction we'll go awry or fail to deliver. It's okay. It happens to me sometimes as well. In that case, you can always address the bad behavior by asking the relevant party what happened and encouraging them to just do the right thing. Sometimes people don't even realize that they're being rude or wishy-washy or wasting people's time. They just need to be called out to step up and act right. Or you can apologize to the other person for wasting their time so that your reputation doesn't take too much of a hit, and then make sure that any future introductions to that person are legit.

[00:47:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know it's funny, Jordan, I just had a flashback to this thing that happened. It's like — wow, this is exactly what you're talking about. When I was just starting out in screenwriting, so I must've been in my mid to late 20s. I was kind of green. I didn't have as — I guess, I wasn't on top of my shit back then, as much as I am now. And there was this guy, he was actually my sister's agent at the time. And he chatted with me for like 10 minutes about my writing. And he very generously offered to introduce me to this guy. I think he was like a development executive at some company. It was super nice of him. I was so grateful. I was like, "Thank you. That's really cool of you. Yes, I would love to meet him." 

[00:47:33] He sends us an email that day, the next day, whatever. And for some reason I have no good excuse. I just took like two or three days to respond to the email. I just sat on the email. And like three days later, I get a call from this agent, this guy who introduced us. And he was like, "Hey man, like you seemed really nice and really cool. I think you're a good writer. Like we met through your sister, so I trust you, but like what's up with the not responding thing. The guy reached out to me and asked me if you were legit, because he didn't hear from you. What's going on there?" And I was so embarrassed about this. I felt so called-out but he was 100 percent correct. And I was like, "Dude, I'm so sorry. You're absolutely right." He's like, "I know you guys are writers." I remember him telling me that. Like, "I know how writers are all in their own world, but this is not cool." And I was like, "You are correct, sir." So I immediately responded to the email. I met this guy. He was very nice. It all worked out just fine. And ever since then, I have never sat on an introduction. 

[00:48:24] Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. Yeah. That's when you got to go, "Oh man, it was in my spam folder." No, don't lie. Lying is bad.

[00:48:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, now when I meet people and they do that to me, which kind of still happens from time to time and it annoys the hell out of me. I always have to give them one chance and actually feel a little bit more comfortable saying to them, "Hey, listen, you know, I did this thing for you. You seem to be kind of sleeping on this introduction. Do you need a little nudge? Because that doesn't make either of us look very good." I feel comfortable saying that because if this guy hadn't called me out for that, I would never have learned the lesson and I would not— 

[00:48:55] Jordan Harbinger: You'd still be lying about the spam folder thing like me. 

[00:48:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, or just looking total newb or just someone who's not like appreciative in a sense. 

[00:49:02] Jordan Harbinger: Like, "Hey, do you care about getting your shit together and making a career? Because you're wasting everyone's time." 

[00:49:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. Anyway, lessons learned and I'm grateful to him. Shout out to Rick for putting me on blast for that thing because it totally stuck with me over the years. But I feel like in a situation like this, it applies to if this guy connects somebody who does deserve the introduction, but just isn't very — I don't know, they don't have great etiquette or whatever, then it could be just a matter of sending them an email and just saying, "Hey, do you realize that you're sitting on this thing, you should pick it up." And in that case, maybe the person is worthy of introduction and just needs to be called out for it. 

[00:49:35] Jordan Harbinger: So bottom line, don't stop making introductions, connecting people is hands down the best way or one of the best ways to create value and build your network. But you have to do it in a responsible way. If you're starting to realize that you don't have solid people in your network, that means you need to level up, adjust your values and standards and start doing a little more due diligence. And if you're not doing this already, I highly recommend the Six-Minute Networking course, which goes through all of the opt-ins, all of the vetting. You can find that jordanharbinger.com/course. It's free. Dig the well before you get thirsty, folks. We cover a ton of exercises and principles about relationship building, many of which will help you fix this exact problem.

[00:50:12] But I got to say, I admire your honesty about all of this. That is definitely a first step to getting this handled. And if you just get a little more deliberate about finding and introducing the right people, I know you'll be great. 

[00:50:23] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget to check out the guests from this week, including Erik Vance on the placebo effect and why our brains are so suggestible and Linda Carroll on love and loving and how loving is a skill and not just a magical feeling that's supposed to heal all the problems we have in our relationships. 

[00:50:41] If you want to know how I managed to book all these great folks on the show, it's all about that Six-Minute Networking, jordanharbinger.com/course. I've beaten it to death on this one. So that's all I'm going to say about that. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts in the show notes. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi.

[00:51:07] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabe Mizrahi. Keeps sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Our advice and opinions, and those of our guests are their own. I'm a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. 

[00:51:46] We've got a trailer of our interview with Moby, iconic musician and producer. This was a super real conversation about creativity, fame, mental health, money, and what really makes people happy and fulfilled. Moby was really open with this one. And even if you're not a fan of the music, I guarantee you we'll dig this episode. Check out episode 196 of The Jordan Harbinger. 

[00:52:07] Moby: I grew up in arguably the wealthiest town in the United States, Darien, Connecticut. But my mom and I were on food stamps and welfare. My first punk rock show was to an audience of one dog. And my first electronic music show was to Miles Davis.

[00:52:22] Jordan Harbinger: "I wanted to stop the show and patiently explained to the movie stars and the beautiful people that they'd made a mistake. They were celebrating me, but I was in nothing. I was a kid from Connecticut to wear second-hand clothes in the front seat of his mom's car while she cried and tried to figure out where she could borrow money to buy groceries. Now, it was 1999. I was an insecure has-been, but we kept playing and the celebrities kept dancing and cheering."

[00:52:43] Moby: The weird thing is things started to go wrong when I stopped feeling that way. 1999, I thought that my career had ended. 

[00:52:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:52:52] Moby: My mom had died of cancer. I was battling substance abuse problems. I was battling panic attacks. I'd lost my record deal. And I was making this one last album. And I was like, "Okay, I'll make this album, I'll put it out. I'll move back to Connecticut. I got a job teaching philosophy at some community college." And then all of a sudden, the world embraced me. I handled fame and wealth really disastrously. It was so humiliating. I wouldn't trade any of it. 

[00:53:26] Jordan Harbinger: For more from Moby, including how he bounced back from a 400 drink per month booze habit, check out episode 196 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.