1052: Wack Prenup Request Puts Engagement to the Test | Feedback Friday

1052: Wack Prenup Request Puts Engagement to the Test | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback. Friday producer, the guy drilling holes with me in the bottom of this sushi sludge dumpster of life drama, Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:00:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. And then pushing those dumpsters out onto the street for the right person to come pick them up.

Exactly.

[00:00:18] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe it's abandoned property that needs to be thrown out, or maybe you need to take your emotional sludge to the back alley and give it a good scrub down. And if you have no idea what we're talking about, I guess we only partially have an idea of what we're talking about. But go back and listen to last week's episode, or maybe it was two weeks ago.

Love when y'all's letters give us more dumpster related metaphors to work with. Here on the show. We, we tend to run somewhat short on the dumpster related metaphors these days. Mm-Hmm. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you, hopefully.

And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long formed conversations with a variety of amazing folks from arms dealers, drug traffickers, neuroscientists, war correspondence, tech luminaries. This week we had Dr. Lisa Cult Niger on Alien Earths.

Essentially, what are the odds that there's a planet out there that could have other life? And what are the odds that that planet would have human-like life? And how far away is it? And we kind of get into the weeds on that. It's actually really fascinating. She's so passionate about it, that that makes it really fun.

You know, when somebody's just like, they just love a topic so much that they enjoy, they're smiling the whole time they're talking about it. That was that kind of conversation. I, I really appreciate that. Also this week, something a little bit less sort of bubbly and fun to lamb. He's an amazing retired special forces guy.

Uh, runs something called Ronan Tactics and he escaped from Vietnam. Was a boat person, was a refugee, saw tons of death and destruction and just horrific things. Then joins the US military and joins a tier one unit and sees horrific things over and over again. Very interesting guy. Uh, very interesting and deep conversation.

And we had a skeptical Sunday, last Sunday on generic versus name brand drugs with Dave Farina. On Fridays though, we share stories, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and compare this show to various trash receptacles apparently. And before we dive into ye old dos, I wanna share something I've been thinking about a little bit lately.

Whenever I'm doing something that's a habit, whether it's good or bad, whether it's deliberate or unintentional, I like to ask myself, okay, if I keep doing this, what does my life look like in 10 or 20 years? This could be in one department working out, for example, or it could be something much broader and more basic like, I don't know, getting a good night's sleep or staying on top of my email inbox or talking things out with close friends.

Habits that make me think I'll probably live a higher functioning life. Maybe not the email thing. I'll live longer because I took care of my brain, took care of my body, and the reason I ask myself what those will look like in a decade or two is. One-off events. Yeah. They seem inconsequential, right? Like going out and drinking with friends and on their own.

Yeah, they kind of often are, but what happens when they're not just events but they're actual habits? For example, going out and getting drunk with your friends every single weekend stuff we did in our twenties. Things start to look a lot different 'cause real talk. I man, I screwed up a lot of things by wasting too much time in my twenties, even in my early thirties.

Doing things that other people wanted me to do. Other people thought were fun and that's fine. It's all learning. We all waste time to some degree. There's also something to be said for being spontaneous and silly and not being constantly regimented. I still enjoy those experiences too. But the wake up call for me was comparing my life to other people who had similar habits, especially at an older age.

And I started really noticing that some of the people I was surrounded by staying up till seven o'clock in the morning, drinking, smoking, smoke, getting high or whatever, just bullshitting. Meanwhile, I'd see guys out jogging in their sixties. Those guys were not out getting wasted the night before and their lives could not be more different, and their futures couldn't look more different based on what they were doing today, over and over and over again.

So I think it's really important to keep an eye on when events become habits. That can be really hard to spot because there's a bit of a spectrum here, right? Drinking every weekend, that's a habit. Drinking every other weekend or drinking every 10 days when you get stressed, oh, it's a little blurrier.

But those are still routines. They're happening frequently enough and in response to specific stimuli, right? Certain friends, certain feelings, they do become habits. So I just wanted to share that with you. Something I've found helpful to keep in mind as you develop the rituals and practices that will lead you to the future that you want, or you know away from it if you're not careful.

Oh, one last quick thing. Pocket casts the app that many of you use to listen to. This show has just announced that you can now rate podcasts in the app. So if any of you listen to the show on Pocket Casts, I know a lot of you do, you tell me that all the time and before, I never really asked you for a review 'cause there was no reviews in there.

Now you can leave a rating and it would mean a lot to us. It would help a lot because we're starting from scratch there as our most podcast. So I'd really appreciate it. It'd be great if we started to stand out on the app because we got a lot of ratings in the app. So if you're a pocket cast user, please bust that thing out.

Rate us right now in the app. It's super, super helpful I think, and could get more people listening to the show or at least make it look like this show isn't totally unpopular. I think our sponsors also like to see that stuff. So you're doing your part if you rate us in pocket casts. Alright, let's turn our attention to the fun ones and the doozies.

I know Gabe's collected for us in the old Dos Dumpster. I can almost smell the existential entrails. Just wafting through the interwebs. Gabe, what's the first thing outta the mailbag?

[00:05:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 40-year-old woman, and a few weeks ago I got engaged to a 50-year-old man. We've been together for about a year and I love him very much.

He got divorced about two years ago. I've never been engaged and this has been my happy time. Then earlier this week, we met at a bar for date night. I was very excited about trying on wedding dresses with my mom and sisters, and while I was talking about that, he flat out asked me for a prenup.

[00:05:50] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, well talk about di.

[00:05:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was shocked and appalled. Our romantic date night turned into what I felt was him already thinking about divorcing me. It ended up in a fight. I gave the ring back, which I regret. I said, if you don't wanna marry me, you don't have to.

[00:06:05] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man,

[00:06:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: he told me I was overreacting.

[00:06:08] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, that's always, that's always a good idea

[00:06:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: that this was a benign request and that if I quote, actually had assets instead of student loan debt, I would understand.

[00:06:19] Jordan Harbinger: Whoa. Okay. Ouch. Zing. What was he thinking?

[00:06:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: But this guy isn't Jeff Bezos. We live together in a very ghetto studio in Hollywood that belongs to him. He sells commercial real estate, so he doesn't have a steady income. While I'm a medical professional with a guaranteed paycheck every two weeks, he has few assets, a small condo, he rents out while I only own my car.

Part of my shock is that he really doesn't have that many assets that I'm aware of, and I'm definitely not the type of person who would ever wanna strip someone of their wealth.

[00:06:51] Jordan Harbinger: I'm just imagining this guy being like, oh man, what if something happened? She's gonna take my air fryer and

[00:06:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: my Ikea chest of drawers.

I mean, it depends what brand of air fryer. If it's a Breville, I would be very protective of that. Like, oh man, she's

[00:07:02] Jordan Harbinger: gonna take my air fryer, she's gonna take my food conundrum from ikea. It took me like three hours to put that thing together. Well, alright, interesting. So real quick, you're not in this to somehow get money out of him, which is how it should be, of course.

But I, I appreciate that about you. He doesn't have a ton of assets. Do you know that For sure. That's something I would definitely wanna know before marrying somebody, because you guys should know everything about each other. You only own a car, but you're more financially stable, which is an interesting fact, and it makes me wonder if maybe a prenup would be in your interest actually as well.

If it turns out that you actually make more money than he does, and then one day he tries to ask you for support or something, this could actually work well in your favor. So yeah, carry on. Gabe,

[00:07:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think I reacted this way because there were some possible red flags that he doesn't actually want to get married.

The first red flag was that when he told his parents that we were gonna get engaged, his father told him, I just hope she's not pressuring you to do it. Uh, interesting reaction. Is that interesting? Because it says something about how the dad or how men in this family think about marriage or Yeah. Is it interesting because his father is correctly intuiting that his son might not actually want to get married?

[00:08:08] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Or because he feels our friend here is pressuring his son somehow? I don't know.

[00:08:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or is it because that's what happened in his last relationship?

[00:08:15] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, unclear. But all of these would be meaningful. I think

[00:08:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: the other red flag was the proposal itself. While it was a romantic setting, it Morocco, the delivery made me feel a little disappointed.

He didn't get down on one knee and didn't actually ask me to marry him. He just handed me the ring and said, we have good chemistry.

[00:08:34] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, this guy, man, this guy is not firing on all cylinders marriage wise. He's either just kinda hopeless with this stuff, which I can have some sympathy for, or he's just super not psyched to get married and I can't tell which one it is.

[00:08:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: He also said something to the effect of, I want to call you my fiance for as long as possible as I have the rest of my life to call you my wife, which signaled to me that he wants a long engagement rather than actually getting married. I kind of feel like I got a shut up ring.

[00:09:02] Jordan Harbinger: That's funny. I mean, I understand why you feel that way.

I also can't know for sure that that's what he meant,

[00:09:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: but the fact that she feels that way. Mm-Hmm.

[00:09:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. The fact that she feels that way is still significant because I don't think she'd feel that way if she were totally secure in this relationship.

[00:09:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: To make matters worse, he immediately called his family after this fight.

He told me that he informed them that I called the engagement off without explaining what actually happened.

[00:09:27] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, that's, yeah. Cool story, bro.

[00:09:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Even if we move on from this, I'm concerned that he runs to his parents about things in our relationship rather than resolving them with me first. I also hate the fact that he's made me out to be the crazy fiance to them and don't think I can face them right now.

I know I overreacted. This triggers my fears of abandonment, which he knows about, and which I work on with my therapist on a weekly basis. I also know there's a rationale for getting a prenup, and while I appreciate that, it's an important conversation to have. Part of me believes that a prenup means you're planning for the relationship to fail and or you don't trust your spouse.

I also think I would've responded better if he had asked me at a more appropriate time and place.

[00:10:06] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Honestly, I think the venue was the least of it. The choice of moment fits with all the other details you've shared.

[00:10:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. He's not great at reading the room, is he? No. Can we move past this or should we both move on?

Are prenups always the right thing to do? Am I wrong to feel so offended signed? Am I acting up over this prenup or has our relationship gone belly up because of these hangups?

[00:10:29] Jordan Harbinger: Fascinating story. First of all, I'm very sorry that you and your fiance or maybe your ex-fiance, hard to say where you guys landed.

I'm sorry that you're struggling, that this happy period in your life took such a dramatic turn. I totally understand why this threw you for a loop, why it was so hurtful. I think a lot of people would feel that way, but given your history, this fear of abandonment, which by the way, I'm glad you see so clearly with your therapist help, that's really important.

Given all that, I also see why some of this felt even worse. This is painful stuff. It's very confusing and your fiance's way of communicating and handling things, that's just making things a lot harder slash it's a huge part of the reason that you've ended up here in the first place. And honestly, there's a part of me that's glad it played out this way.

Now hear me out. There's obviously a few things you needed to see more clearly, and as unpleasant as it is, it's crucial that you have these conflicts now before you get married. So first off, look, your fiance absolutely has a right to ask you for a prenup. I know maybe this is the lawyer in me talking, but this is not crazy.

It's done all the time. People have different feelings about them. I obviously understand both sides of the argument. But yeah, there are some very good arguments for having a prenup. We just did an interview very recently with James Sexton. He's a divorce lawyer, episode 10 35. We talk about prenups. He is a major fan of prenups.

Being a divorce lawyer, it's better to do this. It often ends up with the divorce being better for both parties in the end, but the way your fiance brought it up, man, the time, the place, yeah, that wasn't very thoughtful of him. There's a sensitive and classy way to do it, and there's a dumb and careless way to do it, and it sounds like he did it the dumb and careless way.

Now I hear you that if he had brought this up differently, it would've been a very different conversation and you wouldn't have reacted the way you did. But if he had brought this up differently,

[00:12:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: he'd be a totally different guy, right? Yeah. And then they probably wouldn't have this issue in the first place.

[00:12:22] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Potentially slash Exactly. So how he handles these conversations as kind of the tip of the iceberg because the way he communicates, how he frames things, how he shares his thoughts and feelings with you, all of that speaks to other deeper aspects of his personality and what those qualities are. I can only speculate some avoidance around difficult conversations, some fears that the avoidance is protecting, possibly some conflicts around being married or some doubts about you.

Although I don't know that to be true, but we have to acknowledge the possibility. Look, I don't know if that's what the prenup and the lame proposal, the long engagement are all about. Maybe he's trying to put off marriage for as long as he can. Maybe he does want to get married, but he's being practical and cautious about it, which I can't completely blame him for.

But candidly, when I hold all of these facts together, I'm just not getting a picture of a guy who's super pumped about spending the rest of his life with you, or if he is, he has some work to do in owning his excitement and his vision for your future together and sharing that with you, including the prenup piece.

Sorry to be so blunt here. I really don't mean to twist the knife, but I just, I do think it's important that you look at all the facts here, soberly, and use this opportunity to really make sure you guys are both on the same page, because again, if either of you has any hesitation about getting married, for whatever reason, if there are any question marks here, you need to face those head on now.

So, no, I don't think you can just move past this. All of this has brought up some extremely important data, mostly for you, but also for him. And you guys absolutely need to talk about it and get to the root of all these challenges before you tie the knot, but I, I don't know if I'd automatically move on.

That might be where you're heading, but there are some good conversations to be had here, if only to help you understand him and to feel secure in your decision to separate or if those conversations go well, to feel secure in staying together and moving ahead with the wedding, which is totally still an option.

As for prenups, like I said, I get both sides of the argument. They're objectively cynical and unromantic. They're also very prudent and appropriate in a world where so many people, including people who really do love each other, end up divorcing. I mean, talk to any divorce lawyer, they'll probably tell you prenup every damn time.

Again, listen to that James Sexton episode, and there's a way to have this conversation that isn't overly cruel or cynical. You can tell someone you love them and hope to succeed for the long term, but that you also wanna be practical and recognize the statistics, and that in the event that you guys decide to part ways you want things to be as clean and fair as possible.

So here's this little bit of legal admin that'll make that a lot easier. I mean a hell of a lot easier if we ever arrive at that point. I know it's a bummer to talk about. It's not a reflection of how I feel about you. It's just a responsible thing to do and it can be a conversation. But again, if your fiance were capable of framing things like that, I just don't think you guys would be having all of these issues.

As much as I see the value in prenups, given everything you've shared, his preference for a long engagement, his parents' skepticism about your relationship, the prenup does kind of make me wonder if there's a part of him that has like one foot out already

[00:15:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: or is preparing for a future where you guys might not make it possibly because he knows that he might struggle in the marriage.

Right? I just wanna acknowledge that possibility.

[00:15:33] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I mean, maybe all, he also got raked over the coals in his last divorce and he doesn't want that to happen again, and his lawyer's basically insisting on a prenup, which I would do.

[00:15:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Who knows? All fair points. Jordan, I'm actually the most interested in her last question.

Am I wrong to feel so offended? One answer is no, you're not. Because first of all, you are offended and you're allowed to have whatever reaction you have. It's meaningful, even if you later change your view about all of this. Second, the way your fiance handled this was objectively kind of clumsy and a bit insensitive.

So I don't think it's crazy to be a little bit injured by it. And I get the sense that that's actually less about the prenup itself and more about what his approach says about him and how attuned he is to you. Like you were in the middle of talking about wedding dresses and how excited you were and making a whole experience outta this with your family.

And then he's like, uh, if we get divorced, here's what I want, or whatever. So I get that. But most importantly, this feeling of being offended. I think that might actually be the more intellectual position sitting on top of the raw feeling of being hurt. And that's an experience that you both are creating together,

[00:16:40] Jordan Harbinger: right?

Because of her fear of abandonment? You mean

[00:16:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: primarily because of her fear of abandonment and also because she might have a hard time fully owning her feelings and also understanding why they develop the way they do. I mean, she tells us this fairly concerning story and then she goes, I know I overreacted.

[00:16:56] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Which I'm, I'm not totally sure she did. I Maybe a little, but yeah. You know, it wasn't that bad.

[00:17:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right? I'm not so sure either. She might have had a very painful response to the prenup, specifically given her unique fears and insecurities. But if you imagine being in a relationship with a guy who does all of these things, I don't think it's totally crazy to say, wait a minute, something doesn't feel right here.

I think we need to hit pause and talk about it.

[00:17:19] Jordan Harbinger: But the fact that she's questioning that mm-hmm. That is very telling. And I have to imagine that that's tied to the fear of abandonment. Maybe she's going, well, I overreacted, and when I react strongly, that pushes the other person away. And then she might be trying to walk back their reaction to reel him back in and preserve whatever connection that they do have.

[00:17:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: But you know what's also interesting about that is her fiance is probably aware of that pattern in her, and he is probably responding to it in various ways, whether he knows it or not. Now, I'm gonna be the one who's speculating here, but it's possible that his ambivalence about getting married or staying married is informed by his own feelings about her fear of abandonment.

He might be struggling to feel responsible for the part of her that is very vulnerable to somebody who's conflicted. Somebody who might be looking for an escape hatch in the form of this prenup, and or he himself might be vulnerable to a person who has that particular pattern on one hand, maybe possibly drawn to this pattern of hers.

And on another hand, perhaps a little bit frightened by it,

[00:18:19] Jordan Harbinger: hence the, I wanna get married, but I want a long engagement thing.

[00:18:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Possibly. And also we have great chemistry, but I want a prenup.

[00:18:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I totally agree. I'm glad we're talking about this because the larger question here is what actually drew these two together in the first place, right?

You know, besides their chemistry, besides their love, which I believe is genuine, what are they working out here? Because it's fascinating to me that one person with a fear of abandonment just found another person with a fear of commitment. I mean, I know this is like a attachment styles 1 0 1 yield trauma jigsaw, but it almost seems like it can't be an accident.

Right?

[00:18:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's probably not, and that's actually the deeper thing that I think they need to figure out together. And if they can't do it together or the relationship just doesn't work, which it might not, then it's something that I think our friend here needs to dig into on her own. Because this is powerful work.

It's crucial work, and it'll define the rest of her life in all of her future relationships. As for your fiance talking to his parents about all of this, I definitely understand why that rubbed you the wrong way. I think it's especially concerning, given that he's not giving them a totally accurate picture of what's happening.

It sounds like he's just telling them a version of the story that essentially makes him look like the wronged party and perhaps paints you as the more impulsive one,

[00:19:31] Jordan Harbinger: which by the way, might explain why they wonder if he really wants to get married.

[00:19:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ah, yeah. Well, good point. At the same time though, you know, he is allowed to talk to his parents about his life.

It's not totally unreasonable, but. I don't know. Jordan, how do you feel about this? I feel like when you're older, it's probably not appropriate to share everything about your romantic relationship with your parents, especially in the middle of a somewhat rocky engagement.

[00:19:53] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I agree. I mean, when I was in college, it was like, let me bounce this off.

Mom and dad or mom. Mm-hmm. Right. But when you're 40 or 50, it's like, eh, maybe we're all adults here and it's not your business

[00:20:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: because you know boundaries. Yes. And also because not their business, and also because it can get messy. And then your parents are all up in the most intimate part of your life.

Mm-Hmm. And what if you guys decide to stay together? And then his parents aren't convinced about you, yada, yada, yada. Things are awkward. I think church and state on this one for me,

[00:20:21] Jordan Harbinger: unless you happen to have like super evolved, incredibly insightful parents who are both, you know, I don't know, therapists or something who can somehow be helpful to their adult child while still remaining objective and give them lots of latitude to make the choice that's right for them without judgment.

I, yeah, I've never met parents like that. I think it's almost impossible to do with your own children. Yeah. You're just too close to the situation. I, I don't think that's real.

[00:20:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: So I guess my thought about your fiance's parents is what is that relationship about? What role do they play in his decisions?

You know, why does he turn to them? It would be easy for us to say he just shouldn't talk to them about you. But if you guys struggle to make progress when you do talk, then maybe he feels the need to talk to them. But I still think a friend or a therapist would be a much better partner to work this stuff out for him.

And it sounds like his parents exert a lot of influence in his life, his dad anyway. So it makes me wonder whether that source of support comes with other messages. Like don't do it. Or I see this tendency in you to give in to other people, pressuring you to get married, et cetera, et cetera. Messages that your fiance might, on some level be inviting.

And I wonder if maybe he also might want to hear those messages on some level.

[00:21:28] Jordan Harbinger: I totally agree. So look, things are a little tense right now, but that does not mean there isn't a way forward. The way forward is a lot of talking, and I mean real talking, ideally with a couple's therapist and some good individual work on your own.

And your agenda should be first, figuring out how this fear of abandonment is showing up in your relationship, why it might've even drawn you to this partner, how it's being activated by the engagement and the prenup. Second, figuring out what piece of this reaction to the prenup is truly yours. What piece is his, what these feelings are here to teach you.

And like I said, I would do that before you decide to proceed with the engagement. And definitely before you get married, you want this stuff sorted now and if you're getting signals that this isn't the right relationship or you just need more time to sort it out, I would absolutely listen to those signals.

Any hesitation is meaningful. It doesn't mean it's fatal, but it will be if you don't address it. Sending you a big hug, wishing you all the best you know. It's a great use of funds procured by pawning your engagement ring. Gabriel, define products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. Have you ever thought about something new you'd like to learn? As adults, we often lose touch with that natural curiosity we had as kids. Maybe for you, it's learning a new language. For me, it was picking up snowboarding. No matter what it is, there's always room for growth and therapy can help you reconnect with that party yourself.

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[00:24:35] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All the advertisers deals, discounts, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

Please consider supporting those who support the show. All right, let's get back to feedback Friday.

[00:24:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay. What's next? Hey guys. Last year in order to qualify for a major running marathon in the US I partnered with a charity in my home country to raise $25,000. Part of my strategy was putting on a 5K in my local park.

I asked a local coffee shop and bar owner I had worked with on charity stuff in the past if he would help me brand and promote it. He has a long track record of running charity related events as well as letting everyone know about it all the time. The first red flag I missed.

[00:25:22] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah,

[00:25:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm relatively new to the area, but I did notice that a lot of local people did not like this guy.

Apparently, he was very mean to staff and bad with suppliers, and whenever we would meet, he would talk to me and totally ignore my wife. More red flags I missed.

[00:25:38] Clip: Mm.

[00:25:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: We ended up running a very successful event, had around 250 people turn up and raised over $5,000 that day. We took lots of photos posted to social media, and about two weeks later I bought him an expensive cycling top as a thank you.

I ran the marathon, exceeding my target, and had a great weekend. A month later, I got a call from the charity asking where the money from the run was. Ooh. I was taken aback. I called this guy and he assured me it was some mix up and it would be done immediately.

[00:26:07] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay. Well, here we go, man.

[00:26:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fuss began 10 months of me chasing him and him doing nothing but providing excuses.

At one point, about two months in, he gave me a check that bounced. You can imagine my embarrassment with the charity. As time went on, I got more and more exasperated. I explained to him that this was embarrassing me personally and professionally, but he just kept fobbing me off. Eventually I sent him a message that said I was gonna stop chasing him and seek other avenues to recover the funds He paid me the next day.

[00:26:38] Jordan Harbinger: Cool. So he probably had the money the whole time. It just took the threat of a criminal charge or lawsuit to get him to pay you the charity money that he helped raise. What a scumbag.

[00:26:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Looking back there were other little red flags I should have noticed. For example, he ordered lots of extra T-shirts to promote the event without asking me, even though it was all coming out of my fundraising pool.

He offered to get them designed by his guy and then took 80% of the space with his branding and left 20% for the charity. Of the 250 people who signed up, he was responsible for about 15, but he handed out water bottles to every finisher. Then proceeded to charge me full retail price for them and took it off the monies collected, Ugh.

[00:27:19] Jordan Harbinger: Oh wow. Definitely good signs to clock at a partner. This guy is a real bastard.

[00:27:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Meanwhile, his business is extremely busy. He has around 40 to 50 staff, so must be turning over thousands of dollars each day. So I can't understand how he didn't have access to this small amount of money. Earlier that year, he was shut down for a day for hygiene reasons in his kitchen.

Correct. And he says he nearly went bankrupt as people stayed away. Whenever I would explain the impact the missing funds were having on my reputation, he would say, what about my reputation? And tie it back to the closing down event and not being supported locally, which was months before and unrelated in any way.

[00:27:58] Jordan Harbinger: Dude, screw this guy. Man. I hate this guy. This is the kind of person you wanna stay absolutely far away from. It's like he's taking moral license to screw you over because he lost something when he had, I don't know, cockroaches and rats running through his kitchen. He is like, well, I guess I need to steal some charity money to break even.

Like what? A POS.

[00:28:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm getting strong Dr. Ani case study vibes from this guy. Yes, a hundred percent a year later. I can't seem to let go of all of this and feel like there's something else I should do. I often wonder about getting back at him somehow. For example, there was a profile of him in a local publication calling him the good sub marathon for all his fundraising.

It really makes my blood boil. I've thought about contacting them and giving them the lowdown on what he is really like to deal with. Should I give into the dark side and get even, or should I let it go? Signed trying to carry on when rage is the longest marathon.

[00:28:52] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, good question. Well, look, I relate a lot to your letter.

As a person who's had difficult business partners in the past and who's bumped up against plenty of shady people in my day, your anger is entirely warranted. This guy conned you and this charity, he compromised your reputation. He tainted this beautiful thing you did. And obviously, I totally understand the impulse to retaliate, even the scales a little bit.

So look, part of me wants to say, Hey, you dodged a bullet here. You got the money you promised to the charity, it's all over. Move on. Don't waste another single second. Thinking about this vampire squid. But then there's dark Jordan and is going, you know what? You should bust this guy. Make him pay for screwing you in this charity over.

And for being a general POS, you really adopted the dark. I was born in it. I like your idea to contact a journalist at your local paper and tell them, Hey, that business owner who's praises you sung, he's totally corrupt. He has a track record of doing shady shit. He's a nightmare. He is a problem in our community.

Let me tell you just my story and see if they'll do another story about it. Although, obviously, heads up a lot of newspapers are hesitant to contradict themselves. It's embarrassing to admit they got a story wrong, especially something like this. So you might hit a dead end with them. My advice if you do decide to do this, would be to collect a ton of evidence, fundraising records, photos of the T-shirts, he co-opted text messages and emails of you chasing him, proof that he only paid when you threatened legal action.

All of that so that if you go to this newspaper, the record is clear, it's overwhelming. It'll be a lot harder for them to ignore. If you go to them like, Hey, that guy you wrote a nice profile about, he's actually a total jerk. Here's what he did to me. I could see them hearing that and going like, oh, bummer.

Sorry that happened. And then just moving on. But a big old dossier full of hard evidence that tells a compelling story. That's just something a decent journalist would've a hard time ignoring. And it might actually make them pretty excited. I mean, rarely do they get handed a mountain of evidence about something that might be interesting.

Their work is mostly done right? And if that newspaper doesn't respond, go to another one in the area. Maybe a competitor, see if they'll bite. They might be more motivated to tell the full story.

[00:30:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I like those ideas a lot. But listen, if you go this route, I would really think through the consequences and make sure that you are ready and willing to go to war with a guy like this.

I can't tell if he's the kind of narcissistic scammer who would just collapse if he were publicly shamed, or if he's the type who would dig his heels in and retaliate. Mm-Hmm. You've had a lot of interactions with him. Now you know how to read the signs better. So you have to size this guy up. Like is he gonna stalk you?

Is he gonna send weird letters to your partner? Is he gonna try to take down your business? Is he gonna call charities and tell them that you are the scammer? Or is he gonna freak out and move to another town because he can't stand people not liking him. Sit with that. Make sure that you're not about to kick the hornets nest with some self-absorbed, manipulative, unstable financial criminal,

[00:31:40] Jordan Harbinger: especially in a small town where it's harder to hide and there might be fewer resources to protect you.

[00:31:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good point. On the other hand, I do wonder if maybe living in a smaller town helps in some way, like if more people would be passionate about this story and come to our friend, here's defense.

[00:31:53] Jordan Harbinger: Could be good point. Other dark Jordan ideas, and look, these are half-baked. I don't recommend you actually do any of these, but there's always the good old fashioned strategy of leaving a ton of negative one star reviews on his cafe and bar.

It's unethical. It almost certainly violates the terms of service of the websites that you do it on. You have to be really careful with your usernames and your IP addresses and all that. But look, this is an option. Just make sure he can't tell it was you. But the thing is, that hurts his staff too, right?

Another idea. You could call the health department in your area. Tell him you saw a ton of roaches in his kitchen or mold in the bathroom or something like that. Look, he was shut down for hygiene reasons before. I'm not gonna be surprised if this restaurant is just maybe not in tiptop shape. He's probably so busy scamming people and cutting corners that he's not on top of the health stuff.

If being shut down for one day hurt him so badly, maybe you can make that happen again until he either refocuses on his business or has to shut down for good. Now there's an even darker Jordan version of that strategy, which is again, you know, illegal and you should not do this. You call the health department from the parking lot.

You tell him you just ate at his restaurant. You saw a ton of roaches in the kitchen. The owner's not doing anything about it. You beg him to come out and investigate and you grab a bag of roaches, you got online or something and you set 'em free in there in the bathroom or whatever, and then you just sit back and watch what happens.

[00:33:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oof. That one makes me a little sweaty, I'm not gonna lie.

[00:33:09] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I mean, look, this is super unethical and mean and illegal and you should definitely not do it. These again are half-baked dark Jordan ideas that I don't recommend people do.

[00:33:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Just so everyone knows, Jordan just said that with a huge smile on his face a little.

No, I didn't D as you did, and a little and there was a weird gleam in his eye too.

[00:33:27] Jordan Harbinger: I've definitely never done. No, I actually haven't done this, but I daydream of doing it to people that I hate, but I don't have the balls, frankly.

[00:33:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Actually what makes me the most sweaty about this is just imagining touching a bag full of cockroaches You got on the internet?

[00:33:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Weird. Well, hey look, dark Jordan, Dom. Not for the faint of heart. You gotta be willing to go to some weird places.

[00:33:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Like the dark web apparently, or your local, we store the dark,

[00:33:49] Jordan Harbinger: the underground cockroach market. Yeah. Uh, you're, look, you're either about that life or you're not. You know what I mean?

And by the way, you can do the Health Department one over and over again. Again, you shouldn't, but you could. I bet there's a way to make those complaints anonymously. Just don't overdo it. You know, you don't wanna to catch on to what you're doing. Less dark Jordan ideas, more conventional solutions that might not get you arrested.

You could file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau or the equivalent in your country. That's part of what they're there for. Although they're mostly useless, but it still looks bad. You could tell this story to everyone you know in your town. Maybe write a letter, an open one or a closed one, and just get people to sort of boycott his business, patronize competitors.

[00:34:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: I love all of these ideas, especially the last couple ones. My general philosophy though is stay away from people like this. Just move on with your life. Don't let them drag you down. It's not worth it.

[00:34:36] Jordan Harbinger: I tend to agree, as fun as it is, brainstorming dark Jordan solutions in reality, and I mean this, I'd never bother obsessing over this two bit loser of a wannabe conman.

I just wouldn't.

[00:34:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: You're a good dude with a big heart. You raise money for charity, you run marathons. You are creative, you work hard. Your energy is so much better spent doing other productive things with much better partners. Mm-hmm. But I do understand that you are now left with this anger, and the anger has nowhere to go.

So I get why you wanna do something. Maybe you can channel that rage into the next marathon. Maybe you can use it to motivate yourself to raise even more money next time and avoid these mistakes. You might even find more relief that way. Honestly,

[00:35:17] Jordan Harbinger: man, that's such a light Gabe response.

[00:35:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know, right? Yeah.

Don't retaliate. Just sublimate your rage into exercise.

[00:35:23] Jordan Harbinger: Meanwhile, I'm over here googling how to cause an electrical fire without getting caught

[00:35:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: incognito mode. I hope,

[00:35:30] Jordan Harbinger: oh, I'm using that nor vpn bro. Nord vpn.com/jordan harbinger, as heard on the podcast not not just slash Jordan slash Jordan harbinger, make sure you type it all out.

I've got tore open. I've got virtual machines. I'm all over this. The dark Jordan infrastructure is formidable. Like I said, you either about that life or you ain't.

[00:35:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm just picturing Joe Pantoliano. Is that how you say his name? Yeah, I think it. I think so. The guy from The Matrix, you know the one who sits in front of the screens all day and all night?

Who ends up betraying the whole team? That's you.

[00:35:55] Jordan Harbinger: A hundred percent. All you see is green code. What I see is a woman of petty revenge in the red dress.

[00:35:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. While you shovel revenge porridge in your mouth. Right? But it's programmed to

[00:36:03] Jordan Harbinger: taste like steak, right? Mm-Hmm. I'm sorry this guy scammed you, bud.

It's awful. But you got out relatively unscathed and people like this, they eventually bury themselves. So whether you retaliate or not trust, he's gonna screw himself at some point. They always do, and good luck. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that does make our job a whole lot easier.

If you find you're missing your abusive ex, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you just learned that one of your closest friends was busted for child porn. Or we, we now we say child sexual abuse material, excuse me, and best reality material. That one kept me up at night lately, and it wasn't even my friend.

Hit us up at friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, by the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter. We bit wiser. It's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered to your inbox approximately once a week. If you wanna keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out.

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[00:37:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I run a single person carpentry maintenance business. It's nice. I get to work three to four days a week, spend time with my daughter and play music.

Most of my work is serving repeat clients, but I'm always looking for new ones as well. The problem is sometimes I don't wanna work for these new clients. I'll walk around their house, talk through all the tasks they need done, and get a feeling that this is gonna be a difficult client. I. I've ignored this feeling quite a few times and had some awful weeks wishing I'd listened to my past self who said working for this client was a bad idea.

[00:37:42] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's so important to clock those red flags. Listening to them. It's a whole other story

[00:37:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: right now. I usually just tell them that something came up or I got busy, but this is often after. I've already told them that I'm only booked out for the next couple of weeks. Not a great look, but somehow saying you seem like a difficult and untrustworthy person doesn't seem like a great idea either.

How do I let these clients know that I won't be sending a quote without being rude or vague or just ghosting them? Signed coming up blank on how to be frank and just say No thanks without getting shanked.

[00:38:16] Jordan Harbinger: Great question. First of all, I love that you wanna honor your intuition about these difficult clients.

Break the pattern of taking on people you know would be trouble. That's super smart. It's part of being a good business owner. But more than that, I love that you wanna do it in a thoughtful way, that you just don't wanna be callous or wishy-washy or just ghost them like so many contractors do. So you're walking a bit of a tricky line here because on one hand, you don't wanna take on clients who are gonna make your life hell.

But on the other hand, you don't wanna unnecessarily provoke or alienate them, which could really impact your business. I could imagine some super annoying client with too much time on their hands. Just carpet bombing your Yelp page with one star reviews. I mean, who would do such thing, right Gabriel, because you told them that they were too difficult and you don't work with difficult clients.

That's a problem. You just don't need and you don't owe these difficult clients. Total honesty, in my opinion. There's no relationship there. There are very few obligations. So this is an area where I guess I'm okay with telling a little bit of a white lion protecting yourself. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably say something like, thank you so much for reaching out and trusting me with your project.

As you know, I'm a one man shop. I'm booked for the next several months. I can only take on so much work in my business, and so unfortunately, I don't have the bandwidth to do your bathroom reno for quite some time. Here are the names of a couple other carpenters in your area, and maybe you point them to your least favorite competitors, I dunno.

And you could say, Hey, I wish you the best of luck with your remodel. It can really be that simple. That's way better than, oh, something came up, or I just got busier. I'm too disorganized to manage my own business because now you're getting out in front of it. You're not canceling at the last minute, which is kind of where you paint yourself into a corner and possibly make their life a little bit harder in a way that's not necessary.

And if they hit you back, like, what do you mean you don't have bandwidth? Why'd you take my call? Then? I don't feel like you're obligated to answer. You've given them your response. Let them be mad. It's only confirming that you dodged a bullet and made the right decision not working with them. Look, I promise they're gonna move on real quick.

They care about their toilet, not about you.

[00:40:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally agree. I love that approach. But to make this work, I would also keep learning how to spot these red flags as soon as possible so that you don't have to get too involved with people. You're later gonna decline. Maybe you come up with a few questions that can elicit the information you need to know before you have, you know, an hour long visit at their house, right?

Like maybe you can ask them, Hey, have you ever hired a contractor before? You know, what was that like? What's your timeline? How do you like to work with contractors in general? I bet you can glean a lot from a quick phone call or a 10 minute visit to somebody's house, but also it might not even be about the specifics.

It might just be a general vibe you get from people. I think you can kind of tell when somebody's gonna be annoying or demanding or inflexible or whatever. You can probably tell 'em like the first two minutes of talking to them at this point. So I would keep honing these spidey senses of yours. And to Jordan's point, I would continue learning how to trust them when those alarm bells go off and just get some more practice turning people down.

If you do this a few times, I think you're gonna start to see the upside to dodging difficult people. I mean, you already do. You're also gonna refine your message and this is just gonna get easier and easier for you to do.

[00:41:14] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. Half the battle is learning how to read people the other half, sometimes the harder half for some folks is feeling secure and acting on that information.

Right? Trusting your gut, protecting yourself, risking people's opinion of you.

[00:41:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, I do wonder if maybe that's the piece that he is working through, just getting comfortable with the idea that some people might not love him if he respectfully turns them down,

[00:41:34] Jordan Harbinger: but of course, anybody who would lose their shit because a contractor turned them down is precisely the kind of client that you wanna avoid.

[00:41:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. So an angry client would only confirm that he was right.

[00:41:44] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. And I do think that he risks pissing people off way more by being avoidant and wishy-washy, than by just sending them a text the same day saying, Hey, sorry I'm not your guy. I wish you the best. Maybe give 'em a referral. You really can't lose here.

I love your attitude. I love that you wanna protect your sanity, but more than anything, I love that you wanna learn how to bear the tension of healthy conflict. I think it's a great skill. I know it's gonna serve you well, and good luck, man. Speaking of not working with assholes, here's a word from our sponsors.

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[00:44:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, next up. Hey guys, I'm a frontline worker and recently one of my coworkers and best friends made some suicidal comments on a night I was working. I've been helping this friend through some issues this year, and he comes to me when he is having a bad day. Then recently he reached out needing to talk.

He shared some of the issues he was facing, and we made a plan for what to do if things got worse. Needless to say, they got worse and he threatened suicide.

[00:45:00] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, that's very intense. I'm sorry to hear this.

[00:45:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: I went to his house twice that night to calm him down and to talk. Others tried to get into the house but were unsuccessful.

When I arrived, he finally came out to talk gun in hand.

[00:45:15] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, well this just got real. That is really scary. God, I can't imagine that

[00:45:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was able to talk him down and tried to get him professional help. He told me that he thought about pointing the gun at me or shooting near me so that I would have to kill him.

What I know, there was no way I would've been able to shoot my friend.

[00:45:32] Jordan Harbinger: This is terrifying. So this guy's really troubled, poor guy.

[00:45:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: He refused to go willingly and had to be physically restrained. I know that he would never wanna hurt me, and that was not him that night. Afterward. I struggled to tell my wife what happened, but when I did, she was very angry and scared.

Rightfully so.

[00:45:50] Jordan Harbinger: I get that. She could have lost you that night. Yeah. You could have got shot by your friend. I mean, that is terrifying.

[00:45:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Since then, I had a couple conversations with my friend about what happened. At first, he denied any responsibility, but has since acknowledged that he made bad decisions.

[00:46:04] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, red flag.

This guy should be profusely apologizing to you. And promising to seek immediate help. I know he is troubled, but my God, this was more than like, oh man, you know, I really, whew, I shouldn't have done that. That was, that was a goofy one. Hey, hey buddy. Like he almost shot you and or forced you to kill him, by the way, is sick.

Is this a cop?

[00:46:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: We don't know. He's

[00:46:23] Jordan Harbinger: like, oh, I wanted my friend to shoot me. Like, okay, so you're both armed. He knew you were armed. Uh, right. What job do you have? Again,

[00:46:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: it must be, but I don't know. He didn't specify. I mean, I guess there are other lines of work where you carry a gun, but yeah, yeah,

[00:46:33] Jordan Harbinger: maybe, but like not where you should be carrying a gun in public that you might use on your colleague or yourself.

That's not somebody we want armed in society.

[00:46:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: My thoughts Exactly. I was just thinking it. Frontline workers have it rough. It's a yes. These are not easy jobs, but if you are struggling to this degree, you shouldn't be doing the job, especially if you're a cop. Now, letter goes on. This incident really messed me up.

I've talked with other coworkers about it, and I'm gonna attend therapy for the first time in my life, I've never been good at sharing things that bother me.

[00:47:03] Jordan Harbinger: Awesome. I love to hear this. You deserve that support. I think it's gonna be a game changer, man.

[00:47:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Do you have any advice on how to work through this and the many emotions I have felt?

Fear, anger, depression, anxiety, and a sense of being let down. How do I keep updating my wife on my emotions? How do I mend this friendship and learn to trust this guy again? Signed making things right and gaining some new insight after that unsettling night.

[00:47:29] Jordan Harbinger: Mm, this is quite a story. It's one thing to support a friend who's struggling with suicidal ideation.

It's quite another to go to their house while they're actively contemplating suicide and have them low-key point a gun at you so that you or someone else has to end things for them. This is extremely scary stuff. It's also a massive responsibility to bear what happened to you that night. I am so relieved it did not go a different way, him hurting himself or hurting you.

But I can hear that that evening left a real mark on you and that is very traumatizing. So I'm deeply sorry for your colleague. I'm very sorry for you that you've been caught up in this. I also really feel for your wife who has to watch you go through all this. So obviously the first thing I would've recommended is talking to somebody about what you've been through.

So I'm thrilled to hear that you're starting that process. Therapy is the ideal space to work through all this stuff. This guy has left you with, although I'm sure a big part of your work will end up being about all of these experiences that have led you to this friendship with this guy, how your own personality is interacting with his, what other themes this friendship has brought up.

You're about to discover that the thing that brings you into therapy is usually a portal into all these other things, and usually those other things, they're even more important than the inciting incident. All of the feelings you mentioned, those are super meaningful. They're also very common for frontline workers.

I don't know if you're a COP or an EMT or like a mental health provider or what, but this really does come with the territory, this friend aside, I think, and it's, it's important to have the support that you need to work through it. So my advice there is dive in, share as much as you can with your therapist and let them help you process this stuff.

Processing feelings, man. It means talking. Feeling your way through these stories, sharing your private experience with another person who's available to you. Getting clearer on how an emotion actually feels, where it developed, what you wanna do with it. Gaining new insight into how you operate, how this friend operates, how your friendship then ripples out into your marriage, your feelings about the world.

Finding new meaning in your experiences, making decisions that feel authentic, informed, empowered. Look, it's a process, an open-ended one, and it can take time, but man, it's a rewarding journey. Same process with your wife, by the way, if it's hard to open up to her, you gotta lean into that inertia, that resistance, and tell her what you are going through so she can be in this with you and you can stay connected.

[00:49:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: I gotta say, Jordan, of all the important feelings that he mentioned, the ones that really stand out to me are the anger and this sense of being let down.

[00:49:51] Jordan Harbinger: Well, I assume he means disappointed by his colleague.

[00:49:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right? So reading between the lines a little bit, I get the sense that our friend here is extremely compassionate.

He's obviously very caring, he's very forgiving, and he feels a sense of responsibility for this guy, perhaps for people in general, which might in fact be what led him into this career to begin with. He has been there for this guy in a really big way, and they had a plan for what to do if things got worse, and he still ended up in a very dangerous situation with him that night.

So he has a right to be disappointed and to be angry. This colleague did not take care of himself the way he should have, and he probably didn't capitalize on the amazing help that our friend here has offered him. And now he's been dragged into something very messy, very intense, and honestly very burdensome.

[00:50:37] Jordan Harbinger: And let's remember, it isn't fully taking responsibility for it.

[00:50:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. So a big part of this process, I think, is allowing yourself to really feel that anger at this colleague of yours and to know that it's okay to be appropriately angry at somebody who, yes, is struggling, but who endangered you and who hasn't always expressed his gratitude or his remorse effectively.

And you might also be confronting a part of you that struggles to be there for people in an appropriate boundaried way. The fact that one of your questions is, how do I mend this friendship and learn to trust this guy again? I think that's very telling because there's your wonderful empathy and your extreme grace again.

But also I'm surprised that you want to mend this friendship, that you seem to be so eager to trust him again when he hasn't really shown you that he's trustworthy by seeking out the help he needs, working on himself, and then coming to you in a new way.

[00:51:28] Jordan Harbinger: Right? This is his friendship to mend

[00:51:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. And your trust that he needs to earn back.

Mm-Hmm. So, I'm curious to know why you feel that's your job and why it needs to happen so quickly. I wonder if feeling like it's your job is part of that extreme sense of responsibility that we've been talking about that might also be driving a lot of the anger that you feel right now.

[00:51:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, for sure.

Look, it sounds to me like he's fast forwarding through this phase of just being angry and freaked out by this guy. Not entirely, he's bringing it into therapy, but his question there was, do you have any advice on how to work through this? Which is exactly what he needs to do, of course. But I wonder if he's really saying, how can I process these feelings so I can just put 'em behind me and just be friends with this guy?

Again,

[00:52:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: as he unpacks that in therapy, he might find that not only is it okay to be angry at this guy for a little while, but that he might also in some way be a little angry at himself for putting himself in a situation to feel overly responsible for an unstable person, which, yeah, to your point a moment ago, Jordan probably goes back a very long way.

And this thing with his colleague might actually reveal a much deeper and older pattern of feeling overly responsible for people, but then also harboring a quiet rage about it.

[00:52:34] Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. Look, I can relate to that. It's actually that kinda work that I'm most excited for him to get to do. But listen, man, I think you should strongly reconsider whether you want this guy as your partner slash colleague, because what you guys do is probably pretty high stress.

You're probably spending hours together. These jobs bring up a lot of emotions. You haven't said anything about him seeking treatment and getting better. So frankly, I'm pretty worried about you being exposed to a guy who just a few weeks ago came at you with a freaking gun in his hand. Man, if he's a cop.

We said this earlier, but he should not be on duty right now. If he's an EMT, he should be taking very good care of himself to cope with the intensity of caring for other people and maybe lock his sidearm somewhere up that he can't get to or you take it. But that's mostly his business man. You need to protect yourself.

So you might wanna consider going to your supervisor and saying, look, I'm so sorry to say this. I don't wanna throw my colleague under the bus, but I'm really worried about this guy. I'm worried about myself around this guy. I think he needs serious support. I think you should know what he's going through.

I'm asking you to put me on another shift. That is absolutely fair. It might be exactly what this guy needs. It might be what you and your wife actually deserve. And that's another thing you can talk to your therapist about. So take care of yourself, bud. You've got this and I wish your friend all the best, but you can't take all that on your shoulders.

My recommendation of the week, okay, so this is random, and if you don't have kids that dunno, fast forward 30 seconds, but there's this motorized rocket toy from Amazon, and this is a great gift. It's like 20 something dollars. It doesn't use fuel, right? It's not a pyrotech thing. You push the button, the motor spins up and it uses a propeller and it flies pretty high, and then a parachute pops out.

It doesn't burn you. The blades don't cut you, the house won't burn down. It's not expensive. It's totally safe for kids. If you buy this as a gift, they're gonna be blown away. You basically just need a backyard or a park nearby to use it. The actual model Rockets. Remember those like Estes things? Uh, Gabriel, did you ever use one of those when you were a kid?

No. Never. No. Oh man. They're probably always illegal in California, but when we were kids in Michigan, we could use them. You put this little rocket engine in there. Turns out totally illegal. In California. You need like a permit to do it. Insurance to get the permit. So now I have one of those with a camera on it.

It goes like a thousand feet. Not legal to use, but the motorized rocket, Jaden and Juniper, they love this thing. Even Jen and I, we have a lot of fun with it as well. You just charge it up. USB, it can fly like 20, 30 times before it is outta juice. I'll drop the link to this thing in the show notes. I think it's a great gift for little ones, whether they're yours or someone else.

I think anything up to age, you know, 12, they'd probably really dig this and it gets 'em outside. Also, in case y'all didn't know, there's a sub Reddit for our show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, if there was an episode, you loved it, episode you hated, you wanna share some additional thoughts, you wanna talk to other people in the show, fam, and we are in there as well.

Check it out. Really cool conversations, in my opinion, happening over there. You can find it on Reddit, reddit.com/r/jordan harbinger. So the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Alright, what's next?

[00:55:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi guys. My sister and I are both in our late thirties and have been very close most of our adult lives, though we weren't always as close when we were kids, I was emotionally abused by our mom, which created a deep divide between me and my sister.

As an adult, I've been so happy to discover that my sister is a deeply empathetic and understanding person. We've become very similar people who feel things deeply and care very much about the emotions of others.

[00:55:49] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That's amazing. To come back together after a childhood like this and discover that you both share these great qualities, I think it's very rare and very special.

[00:55:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then a year and a half ago, my sister's husband started being verbally abusive toward me, and I saw more than one moment of him being very emotionally abusive to her.

[00:56:06] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Okay, so maybe more complicated then.

[00:56:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. My sister told me that he has a borderline personality disorder diagnosis and needs a lot of support and understanding.

Hmm. Interesting. I've decided with my therapist that the best thing to do is to avoid engaging in conversation with my brother-in-Law, since he always tries to start a fight.

[00:56:25] Clip: Oof.

[00:56:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: But since I set a boundary with him and no longer allow him to speak cruelly to me, my sister has almost completely ghosted me.

Now and then she'll reply to one text message, but then completely stop talking again.

[00:56:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that sucks. I'm so sorry to hear that.

[00:56:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: She's currently in fertility treatment and has recently gone through a second traumatic miscarriage in the last two years. She's talked about not wanting to be alive. Oh man, your poor sister.

Very intense. So sad. I want to give her the space and respect she needs to work through these incredibly difficult things, but I wish I could support her more. I get the impression that she doesn't want to talk to me, but I'm also terrified that she'll think I don't care if I stop trying to contact her.

I suspect that she's feeling very isolated lately, but she also isn't letting me in. I don't know if I should ask her directly, if she wants me to stop contacting her, as I don't wanna dump my own fears and grief onto her. I also don't know if it's fully her own choice to ghost me, or if she's being influenced by her husband.

I. What should I do signed? Can't stop Trying to be My Sister's Guide when I'm on the outside.

[00:57:30] Jordan Harbinger: Man, such a great letter. First of all, I'm very sorry that you had this difficult childhood that clearly left a mark on you and impacted your relationship with your sister, although it sounds like it also gave you maybe both of you some real superpowers, your empathy, this sensitivity, those are beautiful qualities.

I'm also very sorry for your sister. It sounds like she didn't get abused by your mom in the same way, but I'm sure her childhood was tough in other ways, ways that probably led her to end up in what sounds like an abusive marriage with a complicated man to struggle, to stay resilient through her fertility journey, to stay connected to you even wanna stay alive.

It sounds like she's really suffering and my heart goes out to her. The second thing I wanna say is, your sister's husband was verbally abusive to you. He was cruel. He picked fights, and finally you said, okay, this isn't cool. I'm pulling back, which is a perfectly appropriate boundary if you couldn't talk to this guy and make progress, which it sounds like you couldn't, and then your sister pulled back too, which I, I find that deeply sad.

This is a painful consequence of protecting yourself, and it's extremely common when you draw boundaries with people, especially in families where boundaries were just not encouraged or not allowed or whatever. You don't know if that's because she was angry at you or because her husband is influencing her.

If I had to guess, it's probably the latter, but it could totally be the former. It could be both. But I also think that other things could be in the mix here too. For example, your sister might resent you for standing up to her husband in a way that makes things difficult for you and a little envious that you were actually able to do that as well.

[00:58:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Uh, good point. I also wouldn't be surprised if her sister is wrestling with a lot of shame right now about staying with the sky, about her fertility struggles, about her suicidal ideation, and what feels like rejection or punishment might actually be her just hiding from our friend here.

[00:59:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I could absolutely see that.

Whatever her reason, on some level, your sister is choosing not to be close with you right now. That is her choice. Even if it's true that her husband is like making her do that, I. None of that means that you are wrong or bad or cruel for pulling back. You did what you need to do to protect yourself appropriately, and your sister for whatever complicated reason is now finding it hard to be close with you.

A big part of your job now is bearing the sadness and the tension of that and just allowing it to be. And noticing how that sadness and tension can sometimes become guilt or remorse or self-loathing when you start to internalize responsibility for your sister's feelings and choices. And I know I'm speculating a bit here, but I imagine that's a very tempting process to go through when you had a childhood like the one that you had.

[00:59:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. My thoughts. Exactly. That might be the shadow side of her super strong empathy and this wonderful understanding in the same way that her sister might have chosen a guy with profound needs because she's so good at identifying with them. And let's remember in her letter, she didn't say, I would feel so bad if I couldn't be there for my sister, or, I'm really worried that my sister is gonna wonder if I care about her.

She said, I'm terrified. Mm-hmm. That my sister is going to think that I don't care about her. And being terrified is a whole other feeling. And it probably speaks to a sense of, yeah, again, responsibility and connection with the sister who isn't always really making it easy for her to help.

[01:00:33] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. So from where I'm sitting, you've done nothing wrong.

Your sister needs to work through this in her own way. To your point, she's very isolated right now, but she's also not letting you in. She needs help, but she isn't reaching out for support until she does. I'm just not sure there's very much you can do except be loving and patient and trust that she's going through a process that she needs to go through.

[01:00:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, she's asking such a great question, which is, how do you love people who are hard to love? Mm-Hmm. You know, how can you be there for people who are not always easy to be there for, which is even harder with a sibling, especially when you love so much and you're so similar to, and yeah. Who desperately needs your support Right now, you're in a tough spot.

You can't just pull away and forget her, but you also can't make her talk to you if she does not want to. But I really love the way you captured your feelings about her in your letter, and I wonder if you can't just write her a text saying exactly that. I mean, what if you literally said, Hey sis, I know you've been going through a really tough time.

I think about you constantly. I love you so much. I want you to know that I'm here for you. On one hand, I want to give you the space you need to work through these things, but I also wish I could support you more. I'm kind of getting the impression that you probably don't want to talk to me right now, but to be perfectly honest, I'm really worried that you'll think I don't care about you if I stop reaching out.

And I do. I do care about you, and I imagine you're feeling very isolated lately, but it's also hard for me to know how to help when you won't let me in. So rather than sitting here agonizing and wondering, I figured I would just ask you, and any answer you want to give me is okay. Do you want me to stop reaching out or is it okay if I keep checking in on you from time to time?

Thank you for responding either way. I love you. I'm so happy that you're here and I am here for you in whatever way you need something like that, that is not dumping your fears and your grief under her. Quite the opposite. What you're saying is, I feel this fear and I feel this grief because I love you so much.

I. I'm asking how I can be the sister that you truly need right now. Whatever that looks like.

[01:02:27] Jordan Harbinger: I like that. Gabe, it's funny, she laid it out so beautifully in her letter to us and I was just sitting here going like, okay, great stuff. Say that to her. Totally. And if your sister engages, maybe they can come back together and start talking again.

And if she doesn't respond, well there's her answer.

[01:02:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or maybe she goes, thank you, I really appreciate it. And nothing really changes. Right. But at least she can sleep at night knowing that she did all she can do to let her sister know that she has a friend.

[01:02:50] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. To your point a moment ago, Gabe, when you wanna be there for somebody who isn't easy to be there for, oftentimes the only thing you can do is over communicate.

Stay close by. Allow them to come to you in their own time, which is when you can actually be effective. Mm-Hmm. It's kinda like when people are stuck in a call. Right? The same advice like, don't go anywhere. Keep the door open. But like you don't have to keep banging your head against it. Right. Your sister's relationship with her husband.

Her tendency to cramp around his diagnosis, to tolerate his abuse, her challenges conceiving her depression, her suicidal ideation. You can't control those. It's so painful to accept, but you just can't. That's her work to do. This is her life. She's gonna have to find the answers and meaning in all this herself.

What you get to control is how you show up for her

[01:03:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: and how you take care of yourself,

[01:03:33] Jordan Harbinger: which also, by the way, includes noticing how badly you wanna fix your sister's life. Good point. Nothing could be more normal, but at a certain point it can become unhealthy and unnecessary. I love that you care so much about your sister.

I love that you're gonna be there for her when she's ready to reach out. She's incredibly lucky to have you. She's also gonna be lucky to get to work through this in her own way, on her own with your support when the time comes, sending you both a big hug and wishing you all the best. Hope y'all enjoy the show this week.

Go back and check out Dr. Lisa Ger and Two Lamb. If you haven't heard those episodes yet, two very different episodes this week. The best things, by the way, that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, which is the circle of people that I know, like, and trust, and I'm teaching you how to build something similar for yourself in our six minute networking course.

The course is free. There's no upsells. It's not gross, it's not schmoozy. It's on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks, build relationships before you need them. Takes a few minutes a day. We've got it down to a Science again for free@sixminutenetworking.com.

Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm on social at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi.

This show is created an association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger Jace Sanderson. Robert Fogarty, of course, Gabriel Rahi in the mix. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing things you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. What a master of the Art of communication.

Charles Duhig, author of Super Communicators, reveals key strategies for enhancing your connections and conversations and this enlightening podcast episode,

[01:05:25] Clip: why do some people manage to connect with everyone else so effortlessly? And then there's times when I talk to my wife and like, we cannot connect with each other.

And it turns out it's just a set of skills, right? Like it's just literally a set of skills that super communicators know and that any of us can learn and become super communicators ourselves looping for understanding and has three steps. The first is ask a question, preferably a deep question. Secondly, repeat back what you just heard the person say in your own words.

And thirdly, and this is the one everyone always forgets, ask if you got it right. And the reason why this is so powerful is 'cause it proves that I'm listening to you. It's really easy to stop thinking about how we're communicating. It's really easy to stop thinking about what's going on. Until we get in the habit of it.

Communication isn't something that happens just one-to-one. Sometimes it's one to many, but the same principles still hold up. You're still having practical or emotional or social conversations. Laughter is actually one of the non-linguistic ways that we connect with other people. There's been studies that show that in about 80% of the time when we laugh, it is not in response to something funny.

It's because we're basically in a conversation and we're saying to someone, I want to connect with you. Nobody is born a super communicator. That's what feels tiring, is when you feel like you want to connect and you can't. Right. This isn't a behavior, this isn't a personality type. This is a tool that once we learn, we can use when we want to use it.

[01:06:54] Jordan Harbinger: Learn how to categorize conversations, improve active listening and overcome communication barriers to build stronger relationships. Tune in and transform your interactions into meaningful connections. On episode 9 63 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.