1084: Dad’s Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday

1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the Fair Trade organic lip balm keeping these chops of life advice nice and moisturized. Gabriel Mizrahi. What are those lip balms you find in your pants pocket like months later and you're like, ah, cool.

[00:00:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Bonus lip balm.

[00:00:20] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. But you know, maybe I should have gone with the lip balm you forget in your pocket, and then run through the washing machine, staining all your other clothes with coconut oil, and then debate whether to throw out, but then you're like, eh, I'll just keep using it even though it kind of tastes like Tide.

Gabriel Mizrahi. Oh, I've done that. I've definitely done that. Yeah, but that one doesn't hit the same, does it? Not quite. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from undercover agents and former jihadis, fortune 500 CEOs and rocket scientists. This week we had the one and only Mike Rowe, host of Dirty Jobs and Somebody's Gotta Do It, and author of the new book The Way I Heard It, this is actually him interviewing me and we discuss uncertainty, various social and economic issues, education, and a whole lot more. A bit of a reverse episode of the show in that respect. We also did a skeptical Sunday, last Sunday on food packaging. On Fridays, though we share stories, offer advice to listeners, and compare Gabe to various essential cosmetics, which to be fair, you know, he kind of is both essential and cosmetic.

[00:01:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I cannot argue with that. So you just got back from Asia, my friend? Yes. What was that like? Was it awesome?

[00:01:38] Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah, to say the least, look I got, I went to Laos and Vietnam and I went with a group of business owners. There were 25 of us, it was two and a half weeks long. It's really hard to explain what happens in two and a half weeks.

This is one of those trips where there were therapists on the trip also in their professional capacity and also just taking part in the trip. But you do some work on yourself and your relationships and your thinking, and then there's like woo woo crap that I usually don't go for. Like yoga and breath work, of which I'd leaned into this time 'cause it was fun and interesting music to my ears.

I love to hear that. I know it is. You'll be happy to know I was shirtless 95% of the time.

[00:02:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Makes me so happy. Are you like into holotropic breath work now?

[00:02:19] Jordan Harbinger: It's so funny. You should mention that I did do that. Yeah. And it was, that stuff's real man. Oh yeah. When you hyperoxygenate your brain. Weird stuff happens.

Stuff in there, lights up. That's not supposed to light up.

[00:02:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dude. People swear by it. People say that they can't do creative work without breathing for 10 or 15 minutes. First. I've tried it. It really helps.

[00:02:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I won't bore everybody with my experience there, but I had trouble standing up at the end of it.

And I also had like a massive kind of emotional release that I was not expecting at all. And I, you know, me, I am not Mr. Like, not a crier. Woo woo, deep meditative whatever guy. I'm just not, but the, it's, there's something going on there. Wow. So we hiked a bunch, I mean, six hours up a mountain, lots of really cool jungle hikes, a lot of cool, fun zip lining and ATVing and hiking and all kinds of, uh, there's workouts in the jungle.

We went tubing down the Mekong River. It was just really awesome. I, I don't even know how else to explain it without taking half an hour, which I'm not going to do to our listeners. And then at the end we topped it off by going to Halong Bay, Vietnam, which is one of those UNESCO crazy un protected sites.

And it's just breathtakingly beautiful. And if, if you Google Halong Bay, you'll see it. It's just, it's one of those bucket list things that most people have once they find out it exists. And we were on a nice boat. We had the whole boat to ourselves. There were 18 of us at that point. 'cause some people had to go home earlier.

Funnily enough, one of the waitresses on the boat, she was always looking at me and one day I got up early in the morning and I went to go do Tai Chi with like the Tai Chi master they had on the boat in the morning at six 30 ho. And I ordered a coffee. Ho

[00:03:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: ho. Hold

[00:03:47] Jordan Harbinger: up. Yeah.

[00:03:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. My boy did Tai Chi. Mm-Hmm.

On a hippie dippy. Small business owner retreat. I

[00:03:56] Jordan Harbinger: did. And you know what the Tai Chi master said? Tell me you're not a beginner. That's what he said. I've never done Tai Chi in my life.

[00:04:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is the greatest story. I'm loving this. This is vindication to me. You have mocked me for two years for doing stuff like this.

[00:04:09] Jordan Harbinger: I will continue to mock you. Don't worry. That's gonna still happen. Well now it's

[00:04:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: self-loathing. It's reflected self-loathing. Now I'm so happy to hear this. Okay, you did Tai Chi, you were on the boat. Then what happened? Right?

[00:04:19] Jordan Harbinger: I ordered a coffee from the waitress and she goes, you're so handsome. And I was just like taken aback by this.

And the bartenders, they're like Polish awkwardly polishing glasses and like looking up to see my reaction. Okay. And then she said it again. And then she did this weird hand gesture where her hands were over her breasts. What? And then she just looks at me and goes, you are handsome boy, number one.

What does that mean? My friend? There goes. Oh, you know that that's your nick. You're so lucky that it didn't happen earlier on the trip because everyone is gonna call you that for the rest of the trip. The next like three days.

[00:04:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm gonna call you that for the rest of our partnership. You're handsome boy.

Number one. Wait, what did she mean by that? Like, you are the most handsome person I've ever seen, or

[00:04:59] Jordan Harbinger: something like that. Because at the end we thanked all the staff and they like lined up in this very formal way to like salute and shake hands with us and all this stuff. And then she goes, can I hug you?

And I was like, sure. And she gave me the most awkward hug and I've probably ever had in my life where she like leaned way down and she was already like five three. So she's basically hugging my waist and then she looks at me and she goes, handsome boy, number one. And my friend was just standing next to me, also thanking the staff and was like, what the hell was that?

You're like awkward. Embrace number one is what that is. Yeah. It was so bizarre. I've never had anything like that happen to me in my life

[00:05:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: actually. Was she ranking you and the people? Maybe There's a handsome

[00:05:37] Jordan Harbinger: boy

[00:05:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: number two and three. Yeah, but nobody capped to that one. That is so funny, dude. Well, you're my handsome boy number one now and always.

Thank you. I'm gonna call you that forever. Thank you. It's,

[00:05:47] Jordan Harbinger: it's like something grandmas call, like your grandmother calls you like, oh, you number one handsome boy. You're my handsome boy. Yeah. So that's my new nickname with that particular tour group of business owners. And we're going to Patagonia in a year, and I'm.

Darn sure. Someone's gonna be like, oh, well, if it ain't handsome, boy, number one, as

[00:06:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: soon as I walk in, do you think you'll be handsome boy number one in other countries or are you gonna get demo? I know. What if you go there and they're like, handsome boy, number nine. Yeah.

[00:06:10] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh. Yeah. That means I gotta step it up, I guess Get, make sure I show up with a fresh haircut.

[00:06:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright, handsome boy, number one. Should we get into this?

[00:06:17] Jordan Harbinger: All right, handsome boy. Number two. What's the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:06:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, my brother got married to a woman two years ago, and at the time of the wedding, they were living in Canada with our dad, who was helping them build a two bedroom house.

He's a contractor and he used his connections to get them deals on materials. Since the wedding, however, things have been off with her. First she talked about being transgender, but she did nothing about this fact. She then started to rearrange my dad's house and invite people over, sometimes even overnight, without his knowledge.

He often just stayed in his bedroom because he no longer felt welcome in the rest of the house. She even wanted my dad's guests to inform her when they came for a visit, including the family.

[00:06:58] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so she's just like squatting in her father-in-law's house and taking over. That's not cool.

[00:07:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: She made sure to never be alone with my dad, even getting people to come over to watch when she thought my dad might come home.

Since she claimed she was scared he would trigger her. All of this came to a head one day when my dad was making breakfast for his dog while she was making lunches for her friend's kids who had stayed over the previous night. She told my dad to make the dog's breakfast elsewhere and he said that it was his house and he would make the food where he wanted to.

[00:07:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. What is this woman's problem?

[00:07:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Geez. She then moved out and into a tent on the property with their unfurnished house.

[00:07:34] Jordan Harbinger: What a weirdo. I, but okay, good. Right? I mean, it sounds like a rough roommate to have.

[00:07:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: She then became pregnant with twins, and she no longer seemed to be fearful of my dad. She even apologized for her past behavior.

She gave birth to two beautiful little girls, and things seemed to be going well until the twins were six months old. One day she grabbed my dad's dog and spent the day with him. After she brought him back to my dad's, he noticed he wasn't wearing his collar for the invisible fence. My dad asked why, and she replied that she had been quote unquote, training the dog and the collar interfered with this training.

My dad told her the caller had to be on him at all times since he's a large dog and he's accidentally scared people. This caused her to have a tantrum, similar to a toddler. She punched walls inside the house before heading outside, then threw herself on the ground, drumming her feet and crying.

[00:08:26] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, I don't mean to laugh, but she's legitimately unstable.

This is like, you need to talk to somebody or go on medication asap. This is so weird.

[00:08:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: We found out later that she had had another tantrum not witnessed by her family, which led to the police being called and child aid doing an investigation. Now she's not allowed to be left alone with her daughters and child aid instructed that she had to get counseling for the past year.

My brother and his wife have been using my dad's house as storage as their house is too small for them and using a shower and laundry since their hot water tank hadn't been installed yet. They've been avoiding him when they go over. He only notices that they've been there when he comes home to a glass on the counter or my brother calling, wanting to know where something is and saying they don't appreciate him moving their stuff.

[00:09:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I, okay, these people, man, whatever.

[00:09:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: There's something about the glass on the counter that just rubs me the wrong way. We're gonna come into

[00:09:18] Jordan Harbinger: your house when you're not there and leave crap. But then if you put our crap away, we're gonna scold you for it. We're gonna yell at you. What? Yeah. What hell these people, honestly, I'd be done with these people and I'd be like, if you come over again, I'm calling the police.

[00:09:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: My dad feels that he's been taken advantage of Yes. And has changed the locks so they can't use the house when he is not at home.

[00:09:36] Jordan Harbinger: Bravo. Yes. Thank Fair. Thank goodness this man has some sense. Good.

[00:09:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: The situation at my brother's house is now very tense. He's currently on unemployment because his wife is unable to be left alone with the girls or provide adequate care because she's always self-medicating by smoking weed.

Oh, bad combination. Due to self-diagnosed mental health issues, she has not held down a job for any significant period of time. She's been jumping to conclusions and yelling. She's disrespected her friend's requests, which has caused them to drift apart. She's even made her godfather who owns the property that their house is on to move out.

She then started to isolate my brother by saying my dad is abusive. That she didn't feel safe taking the girls there, that he was abusing my brother, so he shouldn't even speak to him.

[00:10:23] Jordan Harbinger: I am done with this woman. She sounds like a nightmare. Yeah, you look angry, dude. Look legitimate family drama. I can understand deliberately driving a wedge between people and pushing them away because you're a selfish, a-hole and unstable and won't do anything about it.

Absolutely not. Okay. And I'm sorry, I know this woman is suffering, but she is a major problem. And also Gabriel, what is self-diagnosed mental health issues? Does that just mean I didn't go to a doctor, but I know enough about my situation to know that I just can't work and I need to sit around all day and smoke pot?

Is that what I'm hearing?

[00:10:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, what worries me about that is like she's self-aware enough to know she has mental health issues, and her answer is, I just have to smoke weed all day. Yeah. To like calm down. But she's not self-aware enough to go, there's something wrong. I need to fix it. Right. Ugh.

[00:11:05] Jordan Harbinger: This woman, it's not like this person is suffering so much and I have sympathy for them.

I do have a little bit, but whenever you won't do anything about it and you expect the entire world to just bend to your crap. No. I mean at some point people should draw the line and that line is, you know, screw you.

[00:11:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't

[00:11:21] Jordan Harbinger: know.

[00:11:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then one day she decided she had to clear her head at 11:00 PM by going for a drive.

She was pulled over for going 172 kilometers in an 80 kilometer two lane highway. So for anyone who doesn't use that system, that's 107 miles per hour. She didn't pull over for long enough that three cop cars were following her. When she did pull over, the cops noticed weed on the passenger seat and found that her license had been expired for half a year.

At that point, she threw another tantrum, blaming the cops, and even kicking at one of the officers. One of them had been involved in the child aid investigation and she managed to calm my sister-in-Law down enough to not escalate things. But my sister-in-Law is now under a psych evaluation.

[00:12:03] Jordan Harbinger: Good. She's outta control and recklessly endangering other people's lives for absolutely no reason.

She's so lucky that the cop that she ended up kicking or whatever was somebody that understood her situation because she would've just caught another charge of resisting arrest. What are the odds of that? That's so crazy. This woman does not understand how lucky she is. Sort of short term for getting cops that are understanding, having a husband that puts up with her crap.

Having a father-in-law that until recently put up with her crap, I mean, she's surrounded by enablers, which is part of the reason why she's such a piece of crap and treating everyone horribly. It always seems like some of the worst people have some of the best luck, doesn't it?

[00:12:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Since she's been away from the house, my brother has reached out to my dad, and that's how we know what happened.

We're waiting for the results and to see if she'll face any charges, which includes stunt driving. In other words, reckless driving, driving with a restricted substance in reach, and driving with an expired license. The problem is she's not cooperating with a psychologist and refusing all meds, only wanting to smoke weed.

As a result, her evaluation was extended, but she's now home and we're back to radio. Silence from my brother. My dad informed me that between the house and my brother's wedding, he's already spent over $17,000 on them. Now he's looking at the cost of getting the car out of impound and is even talking about getting her a lawyer and paying off any fines she might incur.

My brother doesn't have the money to cover any of these costs due to him being unemployed.

[00:13:25] Jordan Harbinger: Their problem, not his. She did this to herself. By the way, my evaluation, you belong in prison. You're welcome, stamped. Shut this woman. Man.

[00:13:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm afraid that my brother is in an abusive and controlling relationship.

[00:13:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, obviously.

[00:13:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: What should we do to support my brother? Should my dad support them financially? If this does go to trial? Signed constantly in awe at all the flaws that my sister-in-law is laying at the feet of my papa.

[00:13:52] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. Well this is quite a mess. Truly. There's so much to talk about here. I think you can already tell where I stand on all this 'cause I can't keep my mouth shut.

Even while you're reading the letter to cut to the chase, your brother was clearly in a controlling relationship. Whether it's actually abusive, I don't know, could be, could not be. I'm not sure that it even matters. Really what I know for sure is that it is stressful, it's chaotic, it's compromising, and yes, it sounds highly manipulative.

It sounds like your sister-in-law tries to control a lot of people and your brother-in-Law and your dad are now paying the price for it. And like I said, this woman is outta control. I have some minimal degree of compassion for her because she's obviously unwell, but she's doing nothing to help herself get better, and she's fully taking advantage of your dad and her godfather from the sound of it.

And Lord knows who else. And it's just, this is not okay. So, no, I feel very strongly that your dad should absolutely not support them financially if this goes to trial. And otherwise, I don't know who that would be helping at this point. In fact, the more other people support your sister-in-law, bail her out, proper up, overlook her crazy nonsense.

The more they're enabling her to continue being a very chaotic and dangerous person to your brother, your dad, her godfather, and her daughters. Oh, and the people that wanna drive on a road without having a maniac who's high off our ass, speeding 107 miles per hour on it. Just recklessly endangering all those people too.

And also, she is not your dad's child. This is your dad's daughter-in-Law. Even if she were your dad's child, I'd probably say that the same thing. She made her bed, which apparently is a sleeping bag and a tent on the ground in the backyard, and now she's gotta sleep in it. And yes, I know that might mean she'll be even less available to her children, and even more responsibility will fall on your brother, and that sucks.

But with a partner like this, I'm not sure that's actually the worst outcome. If she ends up getting prison time or being forced to attend a drug rehab program, or to have to see a psychiatrist again, that might actually force her to confront how problematic her life has become and highlight all these bad choices.

And hopefully it'll push her towards the help that she desperately needs. Although, hey candidly, I have low expectations here. Things would probably have to be pretty severe for her to wake up. I mean, at what point are you getting arrested by cops that you are kicking while you're high, after you got caught driving 107 miles per hour and you still think like, oh, they're out to get me.

How much worse does it have to get, you know, her anger, her tantrums, her paranoia, all this reckless behavior, their symptoms of her confusion, her mental illness and or their defenses against having to confront the implications of her behavior on everyone else. And that is just a lot to overcome if the person doesn't actively want to work on this stuff.

So no. Let her car sit in impound or claim it and then you sell that thing she shouldn't be driving anyway. Not that it stopped her not having a a license in the past and let her hire her own lawyer or work with a public defender. That is literally why these people exist. Okay. Public defenders are here to protect the rights of people like this.

They shouldn't cost your dad money. And let her find out what happens when you drive away. Your father-in-Law, who has literally helped you build a house for yourself. This woman does not deserve his help. And frankly, I'm a little shocked that your father is even considering bailing her out.

[00:17:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, that's the problem, isn't it?

Yes. Their dad sounds like a super generous person. Such a kind guy, perhaps to a fault. And the idea of standing up to this objectively scary woman and watching his own son potentially struggle as a result, I imagine that's quite painful.

[00:17:24] Jordan Harbinger: But his job is to bear that pain. Yeah. Because the alternative is literally insane.

Literally insane.

[00:17:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. And so my first thought is I think your father could use some perspective and some support here more than your brother really. I think your dad probably needs to be educated a little bit on how his support has inadvertently enabled this woman and what kind of precedent paying for her car and her lawyer is gonna set.

And part of that conversation is also gonna be reassuring your dad that he's not a bad person for letting her deal with this stuff on her own and that he is not necessarily abandoning his son by refusing to enable his wife. My guess, and I know I'm speculating here a bit, but my guess is that your dad's kindness makes him very vulnerable to a person like this, obviously.

And people like your sister-in-Law know that they gravitate to that and they exploit it, or they at least use it to continue coasting as long as they can. I mean, that's basically what's happening here.

[00:18:16] Jordan Harbinger: I think the really hard part is gonna be helping your dad cope with her reaction when she finds out that he's not gonna bail her out.

'cause I gotta imagine that is gonna get ugly. She's relying on this,

[00:18:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: right. There might be more crazy tantrums in the driveway. Yeah. Yeah. Multiple tantrums. And he needs a plan for how to handle and respond to that when it happens. I think he's gonna get it from his daughter-in-Law. He might also get it from his son, and that's gonna hurt and it's gonna be uncomfortable and weird.

It's gonna be part of the process, but that's where you can come in and say, dad, standing up for yourself is probably gonna set her off. My brother might call and text you begging you to help them. It's gonna be difficult, but that doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong by saying, I'm sorry, but I can't continue to support you guys if you guys are gonna make these choices.

It doesn't mean you're cruel, you're just drawing a line and protecting yourself. It just means that they're angry that their lifeline isn't there anymore.

[00:19:06] Jordan Harbinger: And if they wanted that lifeline to be there, they should have treated you better and been more responsible.

[00:19:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. And also, if you ever feel like giving in and supporting them again, it's okay for you to say, um, let me think about that and I'll get back to you and then you can call me.

You can talk to your friends, other people, objective people. We can talk about it together. We could decide what to do, but you don't have to give into anything just because they're mad.

[00:19:28] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I like that script, Gabe, because part of me is also worried that this is turning into elder abuse a little bit. I don't know how old the dad is, and I'm not saying their dad is like demented or helpless or something like that.

He might have all his faculties and just find it really hard to say no to his family.

[00:19:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, but I know what you're getting at like as an older person with some resources, a house, some money, relationships that are apparently useful to them. He is vulnerable.

[00:19:51] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And vulnerable. Older people, whatever their mental state, they can get confused.

They can operate out of fear and guilt and they often need someone looking out for them. And I think our friend here is that person in this situation.

[00:20:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, I agree completely. As for your brother, I find it interesting that when his wife was out of the house, he started reaching out to your dad more. He started sharing all of this stuff with him.

[00:20:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:20:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Pretty textbook. And it does suggest that his wife is the reason that he's not close with you guys.

[00:20:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Well then as soon as he's back home, it's back to radio silence, which sounds controlling to me.

[00:20:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: The best thing you can do, we talk about this all the time, is keep the door open to him, make it safe for him to come to you if and when he decides to reevaluate his marriage and repair things with you guys.

You can do that while still being firm and honest with him, right? You can say, listen, bro, your wife has caused immense chaos in all of our lives. She's treated dad terribly. She's isolated you, she's endangered tons of people. I don't think you or dad have done her any favors by supporting her while she behaves this way.

Now I can only imagine how difficult all of this must be for you for the kids. I feel awful about that. My sense is that your wife is exerting a lot of control over you, that it's hard for you to stay close with us when she's around, and if you ever wanna talk about how to make sense of that and what to do, I am here for you.

But in the meantime, I just can't participate in enabling a person who has been very damaging to everybody in her life. Especially dad after everything he's done for you guys, which I really hope you appreciate, and I'm sure that this is very tricky and confusing for you and I feel for you, but I hope you see that you should not be enabling her either.

[00:21:24] Jordan Harbinger: Certainly not until she makes a genuine effort to get better. That's exactly right. Her brother needs to feel that they still love him, that they're still there for him, while also recognizing that his wife has exhausted their generosity and goodwill.

[00:21:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, because you know, in a way he needs to go through a kind of recovery process too, you know, and right now being unemployed, watching his wife spin out, this could be his rock bottom, so to speak.

That's very scary and painful, but it could also be a huge turning point.

[00:21:51] Jordan Harbinger: I also wanna point out that you and your dad can find other ways of supporting your brother that feel fair to you, and don't enable your sister-in-Law. For example, if your brother needs someone to watch the kids while he goes to work or he needs somebody to pick them up while he takes care of something, maybe your dad agrees to babysit or you guys tag team that sometimes that's something he could do for his son and his grandkids.

Not so much for her.

[00:22:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally agree. But I would say if your dad does that, I think he needs to do it with very good boundaries.

[00:22:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I hear you there. 'cause he, he needs to make sure he doesn't become essentially a full-time nanny to these kids. Maybe he says he'll only interact with your brother, not the wife.

That kind of thing. Because helping in this way for somebody like your dad, I could just see that becoming a very slippery slope. So that's our take support. Without enabling, be honest, without escalating your brother and his wife, man, I think they're in for a bit of a reckoning as they should be. Your sister-in-Law needs to realize how unwell she is and get the help that she needs, and your brother needs to realize the damage he's helped caused by staying married and allowing her to be behave this way.

Watching them spin out without saving them. Watching these kids grow up with a mom like this, that's gonna be really painful. Sometimes it's like watching a house on fire and not putting it out, but that's when you gotta remember not my house and find ways of empowering your brother to put it out himself, or at least keep the proverbial fire to a minimum.

And I'm sorry you guys are going through this. It is awful, but something has gotta change here. Sending you and your dad a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know Gabe, one thing I didn't fully understand in this question is she sits home and smokes weed all day and he can't work because he has two kids.

There are hundreds of thousands of single moms and dads out there taking care of kids that also work. So what is the deal? There's two parents here. Neither of them can work. I'm just confused. Unclear.

[00:23:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I'm sure there's more to that situation.

[00:23:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, that's what I think.

[00:23:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: But if they wanted to make it work and take care of themselves enough to take care of the kids, they could.

[00:23:46] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. So they just don't have any income now and they're on disability. I don't think that's good for the kids. Honestly. This woman adds zero value and stresses everyone out and makes their life harder. I hate saying something like this without knowing every detail of a case, but give me one good reason why she should even have access to her children.

[00:24:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I think you're starting to understand why child aid is looking into all of this, right? Imagine throwing a temper tantrum so bad that you had to call DCF. Yeah. In the states, like, yes, that's like an emergency situation. So the idea of her being around these young children is very worrisome.

[00:24:20] Jordan Harbinger: Well, one of the reasons I think he can't work is not just to care for the kids.

I think he literally has to almost protect them from stoner wife who's sitting around maybe having a breakdown at any moment. There's so much more to this. I know. And they probably just didn't have time to write at all, or didn't even see how it was obviously all related. Ugh. And now for some deals, so good.

You'll be kicking and screaming like a toddler in the driveway. We'll be right back.

This episode is sponsored in part by Dell and a MD episode. Four of the cybersecurity tapes is here, and it's a wild one. This time the show dives into Silverwood Heights, a small town that embraced its identity as a smart city. But on election day, their tech forward approach turns into a nightmare.

Systems. They rely on parking meters, voting machines, and more. They all start malfunctioning, all at once, plunging the town into chaos, and at the heart of it, is Edgar an everyday resident trying to cast his vote? What should have been a normal day quickly unravels into a full scale digital meltdown with Edgar battling one glitchy system after another.

And as tech becomes more embedded in our lives, I feel like this episode couldn't be more timely. The cybersecurity tapes does a really good job highlighting the side of that. We rarely consider vulnerabilities hidden risks, the domino effect when things go wrong. Edgar ordeal on this podcast is more than just a cautionary tale.

It's a wake up call about the potential consequences of our growing digital dependence and the urgent need to safeguard our smart. So-called Smart Systems. You can find the cybersecurity tapes on your favorite podcast platform, got a cybersecurity story of your own. You leave them a review, and it might inspire a future episode.

You can tell that show's made by guys my age because they called it tapes. Do kids even know what those are anymore? This episode is also sponsored by Shopify. You know those huge brands? We all know Hez, Mattel or Allbirds? Yeah. We think their success is all about having killer products, right? But here's the thing.

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[00:27:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear or Jordan and Gabe, I've spent two decades building my music career, releasing music, mostly through my own small record label.

Growing a fan base outside the mainstream has been slow but rewarding, and I deeply value the connection I have with fans, many of whom I know personally.

[00:27:21] Jordan Harbinger: Hey, that is amazing. I've done something similar with this show over the years. I, I have to admire any artist who builds a career like this, develops a fan base outside of this system that makes it easier for a lot of people.

That takes a lot of hard work, so well done, man.

[00:27:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: However, I've been frustrated by a better known musician in my genre who used to mentor me early in my career. He supported me in many ways offering advice, hiring me for his touring band, and producing two tracks on my debut album. But over time, I sensed that he saw me as inferior, partly because I wasn't signed to a major label, unlike him.

He'd called me a hobbyist implying that my day job made me less serious. Uh, okay. Of course, I did want to be a full-time musician, but by the time I started, the industry had changed a lot and streaming made record deals much harder to secure. As a result, I did a lot of work for exposure, including a lot of free work for my mentor, done on a skills swap basis, but he never honored his half of the agreement.

When I asked for his contribution, he instead quoted me his full rate. This combined with subtle but constant nagging over a couple of years made me realize that he had no respect for me. I stopped initiating contact and we fell out of touch.

[00:28:33] Jordan Harbinger: Well, that sucks, but I'm glad that you made that call. Life's too short to seek approval from people who don't treat you well.

In recent years,

[00:28:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: I found moderate success, which has been gratifying. But while this has happened, my former mentor has been making subtle digs at me. For instance, a few years ago, an interviewer who was also a fan of mine, asked him whether we would work together again. He could have been diplomatic, but he said that he'd rather work with other musicians who could help him achieve the things he couldn't do on his own.

Ouch. Meanwhile, he's engaging in weird one-Upmanship online. I recently posted a video about my excitement using a particular instrument for the first time. A couple days later, he posted a video of all of his compositions using that same instrument. Okay.

[00:29:14] Jordan Harbinger: Sorry. I don't mean to laugh, but this guy sounds deeply insecure to me.

Earlier the writer mentioned, uh, he saw me as inferior. I'm not even convinced that's the problem here. It sounds like, it sounds like he's, he views you as a threat. The fact that he's more successful and acting like a middle schooler with a class rivalry, that just tells me everything I need to know about this giron.

[00:29:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: There are other examples, and he has a habit of implying that everything I'm doing, he's done before.

[00:29:40] Jordan Harbinger: Again, though, why does he feel the need to do this? A grown man? Yeah. If he's so much more successful than you, why not just let his work speak for itself and leave you in the dust? This is so transparently narcissistic and lame.

[00:29:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then recently in my first album, received a critical reappraisal. During the years it went unnoticed. My former mentor did nothing to promote it, but now I've seen him joining social media discussions to highlight his involvement.

[00:30:05] Jordan Harbinger: Of course, of course he did. Now that there's something in it for him, he's all over it.

So there's narcissistic supply available and he's like, oh, well, do you know that I had a credit on the third track, like, shut up man. Who cares with this guy? He is mass. Ugh, massively insecure. Pathetic. You are so worked up today. I am worked up today. This is

[00:30:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: handsome boy number one energy. That's right.

That's right. Don't you forget it. Well, I don't mind this. It feels a bit desperate. His contribution was perhaps a couple days work compared to the three years I spent on it.

[00:30:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:30:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: What bothers me more is that he doesn't correct those who mistakenly credit my work to him, despite being very particular about his own credits.

In the past, he's asked fans and dms to edit his Wikipedia page, to boost his credits, and he's previously emailed music reviewers to correct minor crediting errors. All of this seems petty to me. I appreciate any coverage my work gets and I wouldn't nitpick small mistakes, especially from unpaid bloggers passionate about music.

I could overlook all of this, but one thing he did really upset me. I have dyspraxia, which affects my playing style, though I get by fine. And it's more of a talking point than anything else.

[00:31:13] Jordan Harbinger: And Gabe Dyspraxia is what, again? I don't know if I know what that is.

[00:31:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's a condition that affects a person's ability to perform motor and sensory tasks.

Okay. It's also known as developmental coordination disorder. I had never heard of it until now.

[00:31:24] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Interesting. So this makes him what? Play the guitar upside down. I mean, it doesn't, I don't get what it does.

[00:31:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I guess it changes the way he plays. 'cause he says, my former mentor released a piece of music Whose title mocks my playing style?

Mm. The title also references an old in joke, so I'm sure it's deliberate.

[00:31:40] Jordan Harbinger: Well screw this guy being nitpicky about your credits. Competing online, boosting your clout. Annoying, petty, but maybe kind of understandable if like you wanna be the biggest fish in the smallest pond, but straight up mocking someone for a disability, somebody that you supposedly used to mentor and that you worked with who hasn't done anything to you.

This guy's just a dick. He's just a garden variety asshole with nothing to show for it.

[00:32:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: He presents himself as Mr. Nice guy online, yet mocking a minor disability doesn't seem like nice guy behavior. Mm-hmm. I'm usually a turn the other cheek person, but now I'm wondering if I should push back. Have you seen mentors act this way before?

Should I call this guy out, or is this kind of narcissism best left alone? And should I just focus on my work and let any success I have, speak for itself? Signed, assessing the need for war against my former mentor?

[00:32:30] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, 100%. Leave this kind of narcissism alone. Focus on your work and let your success speak for itself.

That's my strong feeling here. Like I said, this guy doesn't sound like a tough but meaningful nemesis who has some legitimate beef with you or is pushing you to do your best work. You guys aren't rappers dropping dis tracks back and forth that are elevating both of your brands and inspiring you to come up with more and more creative bars or whatever.

This is a former mentor or if he ever even was a mentor. Really everything you've shared suggests he definitely wasn't, or if he was, he's kind of a shitty one. Clearly more interested in doling out advice and being close to people who could potentially help his career, which is definitely not what a true mentor does.

This is a guy who diminished you, red egged on his deal with you, proceeded to screw you over, and has spent a weird amount of time cutting you down in various ways. This is not a healthy rivalry. This is just bullying. It's really lame. It's pathetic. It's a waste of everyone's time. It's actually a waste of his time.

It doesn't have to be a waste of yours, which is why my stance when it comes to people like this is don't give them an ounce more time or energy than you absolutely have to because that's how they win. These people are clowns. They just have no idea.

[00:33:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, interesting that this guy has stepped up his shenanigans after our friend here found moderate success after his first album, received this reappraisal by critics, which by the way is awesome and congratulations.

[00:33:50] Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's not an accident, right? As long as our friend here is getting some wins, this guy can't be happy. He either needs to cut him down to size or he needs to capitalize on it for his own gain by taking credit for his tiny role on social media. It reminds me of Robert Green has the 48 laws of power, and I think one of them is never outshine the master.

And that's when you know someone mentors you and you do better than them. It, that person might be a little bit bitter about it and you have to kind of manage that relationship. In this case, it sounds like our friend here hasn't really in sort of absolute terms, outshined the master, but the master's so deeply insecure that him getting an inch closer to this guy's status in, in the industry is so threatening to him that he feels the need to shut it down.

[00:34:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Correct. And what is he supposed to do? Spend three hours a day on Twitter. Correcting the record. Yeah. Putting out videos, mocking this guy back like then he's spending all of his precious time on this kind of pathetic guy. Yeah. Who he's lucky frankly, to be done with. That is time not spent focused on his music, on his life, which is the only thing that matters.

[00:34:50] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. These people only get fuel when people fight back and whether he's trying to or not, he's distracting you from what really matters.

[00:34:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, I can almost guarantee if this is how he's treating you, there are other people he is treating like this too and I'm sure that he engages with other successful people who can definitely help his career in a kind of smarmy, self-serving spirit, and that's only gonna get him so far

[00:35:12] Jordan Harbinger: for sure.

Some combination of all these things is ultimately gonna hold him back, maybe even tank him completely one day, and our friend here won't have to lift a finger. There are people in podcasting where once someone will say, can you believe this guy did that? And I'll go, oh, I have a story about that guy. And then five other people are like, oh, I've got a story about that guy.

And you just realize that everyone thinks this guy is a piece of crap and it's just universal. Then there's another person in the room maybe who doesn't have a story about that guy and goes, huh, seven people in the room that I respect are talking about another person that I respect. And they all have a story about him where there's smoke, there's fire.

So this kind of stuff really does not do well for him over time. So don't call this guy out, leave him alone. Focus on your work. Let it speak for itself. You're not gonna regret it. It's gonna be liberating. And one day, if you're ever sitting for a pitchfork interview or whatever, and they're like, so what's the deal with James?

So-and-So he sure talks about you a lot. You can smile and wave it off and just say something like, oh, you know, a lot of interesting personalities in this racket, and just leave it at that. But in the meantime, what do the kids no longer say? I'm sure. Bye Felicia. Your instinct is by Felicia. Yeah, that's probably like, oh man, boomer slang, you just got demoted to handsome boy number two for that one, handsome boy.

Number three, your instinct is spot on. It says so much about you and why you're already coming out ahead here. In the long run, being the bigger person and sidestepping drama like this is always gonna serve you well. I admire your hustle. I appreciate your lens on all this, and I wish you nothing but success, my dude.

Good luck. You could reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise, use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you're trying to figure out how to co-parent with a criminal, narcissistic ex, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up at Friday, Jordan harbinger.com.

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[00:37:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 27-year-old chemical engineer, currently working at one of the US' largest Fortune 500 corporations.

Last year it funded a master's degree program for me. They paid my salary and my tuition while I attended school full-time, which was a pretty sick deal. I was required to sign a contract with the company stating that I would stay for at least two years following graduation, or I would need to repay the tuition after returning to work.

I've enjoyed many parts of my role, but I feel a bit stuck and I'm ready to move on with my career and my life. The company is located in a very small town that is family oriented and does not align with my life as a single young person. Also, the values of the corporation are draining. Recent, large rounds of layoffs have generated a lack of confidence in the company's leadership, and there isn't much opportunity for technical growth as the company is largely more concerned with keeping the status quo and playing it safe with its products.

Innovation is not encouraged, which makes the job feel a bit soul sucking.

[00:38:21] Jordan Harbinger: I totally get it, and that's why big companies lose talented employees like you all the time, which fair enough. That's just how big companies are.

[00:38:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: After looking for jobs in industries, combating climate change, which is super exciting to me and would make me proud, I ended up receiving an offer to one of the most notable names in the industry, A huge opportunity.

This company is also in a European country, and it would be a chance to live and work abroad, which is something I've always wanted to do.

[00:38:47] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, that sounds great. Amazing. Congratulations. This is super exciting. So the problem is the grad school money, right? That's the issue.

[00:38:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: The problem is if I leave now, I'll be required to pay back my tuition support within 90 days of leaving the company.

Oh wow. This is a large sum, about $40,000. I can pay this money, but I would need to dip into my 401k to make it happen. I've looked into other options, but I don't qualify for any loans with reasonable interest rates as I haven't built much credit. I currently don't have any debt apart from my car loan, and I plan to sell my car when I move.

I. I have a year and a half left before I can leave without owing any money. I also mentioned this to the new company and they're not willing to assist with any of the repayment.

[00:39:27] Jordan Harbinger: Bummer, that was definitely gonna be my first idea.

[00:39:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: If I don't take this opportunity now, I fear I may lose momentum to make such a big move as I'm approaching 30.

If I find a partner in that time, I'll be less likely to wanna move outta the country and have more to consider when making a career change. I know I could find other jobs, but the next opportunity will be different from this one. And there's so many positives. The industry, the company, the adventure.

This could kickstart a long career in this industry with even more job opportunities to follow. Should I pursue my dream at a cost or wait it out and potentially get stuck in a career or an industry? I don't want, am I being too impatient? How do I know when it's the right time to take a big risk that could pay off big in the end signed, be obstinate about moving continents or remain cognizant that it might be in providence.

[00:40:15] Jordan Harbinger: Great question, and look, I know how intense it is, but this is the definition of a champagne problem, a tough choice you're only facing because you've done so much right here because you're a valuable candidate who's driven by purpose and curiosity, and a real desire to make an impact in the world. I. I just wanna take a moment and appreciate how awesome that is and how well those qualities are gonna serve you in your career.

So look, I can't tell you with a hundred percent certainty what to do here. I don't think anybody can. You have some good reasons to stay and earn out this tuition support, and you have some good reasons to take the hit and embark on this adventure. This ultimately is gonna come down to how you value all of these different variables.

The value of this tuition support, the value of dodging a $40,000 hit or taking on 40 grand in debt. The cost of giving up this great opportunity, the upside of chasing this exciting experience. I say this a lot. All of this is ultimately informed by what you believe is most important, what matters most to you at this stage of your life, and also your tolerance for risk, your long-term goals.

That's something only you can really decide, and it sounds to me like this job means a lot to you right now in a number of ways, but those ways are probably hard to quantify. It's easy to go, well, I'm gonna make X dollars a year so I can earn back the 40 grand and two and a half years, or whatever. It's harder to say, well, working on climate change technology and going to live in Europe and meeting these kinds of people and having an adventure before I turn 30, that's worth X dollars to me, or worth whatever to me.

But the fact that you can't put a dollar value on those things, that might also tell you just how valuable those experiences really are to you.

[00:41:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, such a good point. The other thing this is gonna come down to is what kinds of opportunities you might create for yourself in this new chapter, and also how you're gonna invest in yourself along the way.

Because look, you could lose 40 grand and go have an amazing few years in Europe at a job that you love. And for one person, a hit like that is absolutely worth it. And for someone else, uh, maybe it's not worth the price. But if you go to Europe knowing that you had to give up 40 grand and you work really hard and you build a ton of great relationships.

You create even more opportunities for yourself. I mean, I don't know, maybe you carve out a consulting gig or you start a cool side hustle, or you start speaking at climate conferences on the weekends or something. Or who knows? Maybe you even meet your future spouse over in Europe, or like you said, you get even more job opportunities down the line that pay you twice as much.

Suddenly that 40 grand starts to look a lot different. Maybe it stops feeling like just a liability and it starts looking more like an investment. If you take this job and you move to Europe knowing that you invested $40,000 in yourself as opposed to just losing $40,000, that might motivate you to make the ROI as high as possible, whether that's working harder at this job or putting in the effort to really meet people, or just taking trips to cool places while you're living over there, or just soaking up your new city and making sure that you really appreciate this gift that you are giving yourself.

Point is. The value of this 40 grand to you, what it signifies to you above and beyond the dollars and cents. So much of that comes down to what you do with this new chapter.

[00:43:19] Jordan Harbinger: Could not agree more, Gabe. And that's even truer. The higher the dollar amount is, if our friend here only had to give up 5, 10, 15 grand's a chunk of change.

But you could just call that the cost of doing business, 40 grand. That's a lot of money. So if you're gonna give that up, you almost have to make a pact with yourself to really live your life in a way that makes it worth it. And by the way, part of the reason I'm saying that is that you don't have any other debt.

So you're not gonna compromise yourself terribly by making this move. It's a privilege to be in that position, so you gotta use it wisely. So I'm leaning toward taking the job to be honest, but if you decided to wait a year and a half, I'd understand that too. I don't think that's automatically a mistake.

Like I said, 40 grand is still a lot of money. It's working for you right now in that 401k in your retirement account. You're talented. This is not gonna be the last job offer you get even in Europe. But you also have to factor in your age, your life phase, your long-term career goals, your freedom right now, your flexibility.

Those are crucial factors, and like you said, those won't last forever. And there's something to be said for heating the call to adventure when it comes, which is really what life's about. Congrats on getting this offer. It's super exciting. It's a validation of your hard work and ability. Whatever you decide to do, I hope you value those things fully and keep growing and investing in them however you can.

Good luck. You know what? You won't need to dip into your retirement fund in order to afford the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Progressive. Most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yep. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, maybe doing a little grocery shopping.

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All right, back to feedback Friday.

Okay,

[00:47:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: what's next? Dear Gordon and Ja, I've been married to my husband for a year and a half together for five. He is charming, funny, and romantic, and we share a lot of the same interests. He has a dark side. He yells, screams and criticizes regularly. He disrupts plans, events, dates, emergencies, and holidays by starting fights or by being so suen that it makes people uncomfortable.

He has broken things, left me places, threatened to abandon me by quitting his job and leaving and asked for divorces to show me how serious he is, unquote, about whatever it is he's upset about.

[00:47:52] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, that is not fun and super dysfunctional.

[00:47:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know that this is not love, it's abuse. Mm-Hmm. I know I should leave, but I can't help but wonder if this is my fault because I find it difficult to meet his very specific needs.

Specifically when he gets upset about something I've done, he needs me to one, repeat back or paraphrase what he said and use the specific word he used to describe his feelings. Two, acknowledge past patterns in my behavior and how they influence the current situation if he brings that up, which he does repeatedly.

Three. Apologize by taking responsibility and saying how I will prevent this infraction in the future.

[00:48:32] Jordan Harbinger: Infraction, okay, this sounds awful. This is not a husband. This is a drill sergeant in like a military prison who's also kind of a baby from the sound of it.

[00:48:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: That third one is extremely

[00:48:42] Jordan Harbinger: concerning

[00:48:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: to me.

[00:48:43] Jordan Harbinger: Extremely. This is not a conversation, it's not even a productive fight. It's just like you pissed me off because I have all these triggers and it's automatically your fault and you need to apologize in this very specific way, and tell me how you'll avoid setting me off in the future. I'm just very worried about all this.

[00:48:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: The problem is that he monologues, he talks at length and brings up so many different things that by the time it's time for me to talk, I'm turned around. I try to start by talking about the first things he brought up, but he gets angry because I need to start the other way with what he said last. What?

This is a psycho man. This is weird, but when I do repeat back what he said, he gets angry because I'm just repeating and not apologizing in the way that he's asked. If what I say doesn't immediately resonate, he interrupts to tell me I'm wrong or that I'm doing it wrong, then I feel he hasn't given me a chance to say everything I wanted to.

[00:49:34] Jordan Harbinger: Again, this is not a conversation. This is an interrogation. This is some kinda weird North Korea style domestic reeducation programs. It's so odd.

[00:49:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Deep down, I suspect that this is about control and moving the goalposts to induce guilt, but I have a nagging fear that he's treating me this way because I struggle to meet this need.

Or from his perspective, refuse to, is this need totally unreasonable or do I need to hone my active listening skills? What responsibility do I have to meet his needs as a wife, and what responsibility does he have to meet his own needs for acknowledgement and validation? Signed taken aback that I'm catching flack from my chap because I guess I don't have a knack for parroting back.

Oh man.

[00:50:21] Jordan Harbinger: I'm not even in this marriage and I'm sweating over here. This is so concerning, so stressful. First of all, I'm very sorry that you find yourself in this situation. As you can tell, I'm having a very strong reaction to your letter. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be in your shoes.

Awful. What you're describing sounds, yeah. Insanely stressful. As Gabe mentioned, suffocating. Unsettling. I could go on. Basically, this is a nightmare. This is not a healthy, respectful, high functioning relationship, so no. This need of your husband's whatever, it's not reasonable at all. I'm not even sure that it's a legitimate need.

I mean, it's a need in the sense that he feels he needs it, I guess. But he obviously has some deeper need for security, respect, control. But it's not a legitimate need in the sense that he's not bringing it to you like, Hey, I think I need this deeper thing. Reassurance, understanding, empathy, whatever it is, and I'd like to explore that with you.

This is a bizarre set of demands. It's bullying, it's manipulation, it's domination. This is him kind of downloading all his fears and anxieties onto you in the form of these monologues that sound like they're designed to make him feel safe and powerful and cared for. They're not designed to help you help him work on himself or bring you two closer.

So no, you don't need to hone your active listening skills. I'm kind of, I don't mean to laugh, but it's almost like ridiculous that that's one of the, the options. This is not a failure of listening. This is a natural response to some weirdo ranting at you incoherently for an hour and a half, and then expecting you to parrot back what they say word for word in the exact right order, looking for you to slip up so that he can yell at you for doing it wrong.

I mean, could you listen better? Could you say, Mm-Hmm. And chime in along the way. Could you take notes on what he's saying so you don't miss any points? Sure. But something tells me that that wouldn't satisfy him either. In fact, it might even piss him off more if you perfectly respond to every single point he makes.

And then he needs to look for other reasons to get mad at you, which is what's going on here.

[00:52:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. This guy's not looking for you to be a better listener. I'm afraid that what he's looking for is an object for his rage and his anxiety, and to your point, perhaps a mechanism for control. And I'm getting the sense that that will never end even if you are quote unquote perfect, whatever that means.

[00:52:31] Jordan Harbinger: So your question is a really good one. What responsibility do I have to meet his needs as a wife? And what responsibility does he have to meet his own needs for acknowledgement and validation? Well, again, those specific needs and the way he's going about getting them met, they're not entirely legitimate.

There's a difference between going to your partner and saying, Hey, I'm feeling a little uneasy. I'm feeling unappreciated, I'm feeling lonely. Whatever you might be going through, can we talk about it? I could use some support right now. There's a difference between that and going sit down and listen to me rant about how unacknowledged and disrespected I feel.

And then tell me how you're gonna avoid making me feel that way ever again and do it the exact way that I want. Or you'll be failing me as a wife

[00:53:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: also, even if those were somehow legitimate needs of his. It is not her job to protect him from feeling difficult feelings ever again. It's just not.

[00:53:20] Jordan Harbinger: No. And even if she were somehow doing certain things to trigger him, at some point it's on him to go, okay, why does this upset me so much?

It's like, it's not your wife's fault, you turd. The call is coming from inside the house, the unstable petulant house.

[00:53:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it probably is in his case, and God knows why that is. I mean, yeah, this, this worries me. I mean, you know, she said that he's loving and funny and romantic, and then he also has this other side.

In a certain way that doesn't make it better, that makes it worse. It's more confusing to me. I have to imagine that there's some kind of trauma in his past to cause these two halves of his personality to take turns

[00:53:56] Jordan Harbinger: and or personality disorder caused by said trauma.

[00:53:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: For

[00:53:59] Jordan Harbinger: sure.

[00:53:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: So my take is, yeah, he has the primary responsibility to meet his own needs for acknowledgement, for validation.

You can only support him in that. But more importantly, he has a responsibility to investigate why those needs of his are so profound and why he thinks this is the way to get them met. Uh, do, do

[00:54:16] Jordan Harbinger: therapy,

[00:54:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: do do therapy. But I'm not sure that this guy's gonna go to therapy.

[00:54:20] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I have my doubts as well, and I'm not sure he's going to even appreciate hearing, Hey man, you're outta control and you have some serious wounds to address.

Get thee to a therapist's office from his wife, who he obviously doesn't respect.

[00:54:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: No. But she can say, I think you're looking for something that I can't quite give you. You're also making it really hard for me to give it to you in a way that's fair. And that honestly makes sense to me. So if you want to have a real conversation where we both get to talk.

I'm here for that. If you want to yell at me for 90 minutes and then demand that, I apologize for letting you down over and over again. I'm not really interested in that anymore. What I am open to is talking about what makes you angry, why you get so angry, why you're relating to me like this, how I can help you find the acknowledgement that you're looking for.

That's a different conversation.

[00:55:05] Jordan Harbinger: Of course, that's the message, but again, I just don't see this guy responding to that very well, and I imagine that would be super scary for her.

[00:55:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally get that. I'm not saying it's gonna be easy, but that is a fair response. I think she can also consider having this conversation with him when he's not in these moods.

You know, maybe when he is in his fun and sweet and romantic mood, she can say, Hey, can we talk about how we talk when things get difficult? Maybe that's easier than,

[00:55:29] Jordan Harbinger: you know, when you become a psycho and everyone hates you. Don't say that. Let's

[00:55:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: don't lead with psycho. But yeah, it is an interesting question.

When do you bring this up?

[00:55:37] Jordan Harbinger: I hear that, but I'm, I'm, I'm a little worried about what might happen if she stops playing along with his nonsense. She hasn't said anything about physical abuse. I'm hoping that's not part of this guy's Mo, but at a minimum I suspect that these monologues and interrogations are only gonna increase when she stops participating

[00:55:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: probably.

And how he responds is gonna tell her if he's open whatsoever to trying things in a new way. You know, I suspect not, but it would be really good for her to know that for sure before she decides what to do. Let's also remember that this is not just about these monologues. He screams at her, he criticizes her.

He ruins parties and holidays by sulking and starting fights. He throws stuff around the house, he ditches her in public. He threatens to leave her. I mean, that's more than just being suffocating and needy. There's something very wrong here. That's

[00:56:26] Jordan Harbinger: what I'm saying. This guy is out of control and he's causing a lot of pain and chaos, and I think that she's right that this is probably about control and moving the goalposts to make her feel guilty, although it probably goes way deeper than that.

You don't do this to your partner unless you're deeply insecure and in a lot of pain yourself. That is what he needs to address, but it is not your job to address it for him or to cramp around his wounds or do all these freaking gymnastics to make him feel safe and in control. Full stop. So it's up to you to decide whether you wanna leave.

If I were in your shoes, I probably would, especially if I had no evidence that this guy's willing to work on any of this stuff. I just don't see how staying in this marriage is sustainable, fair to you, et cetera. But if you leave, please do so safely. Extricating yourself from a partner like this can be very tricky.

We talked about this a few weeks ago. Listeners write in with this all the time. The most dangerous time for a victim of abuse is when they are leaving. So you are gonna need a solid plan. You're gonna need some good support from friends and family. We're gonna link to some good resources in the show notes for you.

Please check them out as you weigh your options. We're sending you a big hug. Take good care of yourself. We're rooting for you. Gabe, what'd you think of that response?

[00:57:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I mean, I think it was

[00:57:39] Jordan Harbinger: No, no, no, no. Start from the last thing I said and work your way back to the beginning. Say it exactly how I said it.

Yeah, exactly. And I am big pentameter. While you're at it, I am big pentameter. Why did we spend any time learning that in school? Can you, what is the rationale here? I've spoken like

[00:57:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: a real non-English minor right there.

[00:57:56] Jordan Harbinger: Good lord. All right. And now for recommendation of the week, my recommendation of the week is a documentary called Sour Grapes Man.

Okay, so this guy, this Indonesian guy, it's about wine. Look, I know you're like, I don't care about wine. Trust me. This is interesting. Even if you don't care about wine, 'cause I don't care about wine. I. This is a guy from Indonesia, and suddenly he shows up in the wine scene here, I think in Silicon Valley slash California, and he starts spending millions or even tens of millions of dollars on rare wines and wine collections.

And he's hanging out with all these super wealthy and famous Hollywood people and drinking a hundred thousand dollars worth of wine at these dinners they have every, every month or every two weeks or whatever it is. And he just changes the market for wine. And suddenly people are like, how is this guy getting access to all this money?

How's he getting access to all this wine? And it turns out to be this massive scam. And this guy is not only counterfeiting some of the wines, but the money source is obviously dubious and sketchy. It is fascinating if you like counterfeiting true crime kind of fakes and forgeries and that kind of stuff.

This documentary is for you, it's called Sour Grapes. I watched it on Netflix. I don't think it's there anymore, but it looks like it's streaming on other services, possibly even for free. So we're gonna link to that in the show notes. It's one of those things where you go, I don't care about this. And people are like, no, no, no, trust me.

And I'm doing that same thing to you right now. Doesn't matter. Forget that. It's about wine. If you don't care about wine, if you do care about wine, you're gonna be in love with this documentary is fascinating.

[00:59:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: I've heard about this documentary, it sounds pretty amazing. I've been meaning to watch it for a while, so I'm gonna add that to my playlist.

[00:59:32] Jordan Harbinger: The combination between some sort of high-end product like wine forgeries, fraud, and embezzlement or whatever the, there's just a lot of crime going on in one place and it, it's the way that he did it was fascinating and the amount of people that he duped was also kind of comical. It's hard to feel sympathetic for these guys with $500 million drinking SW and being like, oh, this is amazing.

Look at the notes of Cherry, and you're just like, bro, you're drinking something from a sink. But anyway, in case y'all didn't know, there's a subreddit for our show. If you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes or anything having to do with the show. For example, Jordan's new moniker is number one.

What was it? Handsome boy number one. Yes. Handsome boy, number one. That's right. We've gotta figure out a way to change my flare from whatever it is now to handsome boy number one.

[01:00:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, our amazing listener who creates the flares in the subreddit. Yes. Can you make a new one called. Handsome boy number one.

[01:00:21] Jordan Harbinger: And can you give it to me or do I have to select? I don't know how any of that stuff works on Reddit, unfortunately. But if there's an episode you like, you wanna talk about the episodes or talk to other show fans, find us in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit and we'll see you there. Alright, what's next?

[01:00:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I recently and unexpectedly lost my mother and I'm deep in grief. It was a big loss for many as she was involved in many charities and clubs around her interests and her disease. My mother suffered with rheumatoid arthritis for over 45 years, but she never let it stop her from achieving and supporting those she loved.

[01:00:55] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, I'm so sorry to hear this. Your mom sounds like a remarkable woman and that's

[01:01:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: tough. Now, in the wake of her loss, I find myself wanting to honor her spirit by paying forward the love and support she gave me, as well as the support of the wide network of friends and family she built for me. I'm not interested in any grand plans like starting an organization, but I'm looking for small actions with big impacts like my mother had on so many people.

Can you suggest any ways of turning this lemon into lemonade? How can I take this dark moment of my life and use it to lighten others? Signed moving through mourning by paying it forward.

[01:01:31] Jordan Harbinger: It's interesting. I was just talking with you, Gabe, about my dad. He had a pretty bad fall a couple weeks ago and last week he had hip replacement surgery and the whole thing just really brought to life the fact that my parents, you know, they're getting up there, they're in their eighties, and it's such a strange experience, me and middle age to watch your parents get old and to know that eventually we're all gonna have to say goodbye to them.

And I look, I hope it doesn't happen for a while, but obviously it's on my mind. It's a sad thought. It's really intense. I'm sorry that you had to say goodbye to your mom. Like I said, clearly an awesome woman who made a huge impact in the world, and I love that you want to embody these awesome qualities of hers.

That's an amazing way to honor your mom, to show up in the world the way that she did. And it also tells me she was a great parent and raised you to be a solid human being as well. So I hear you that you don't wanna start a big nonprofit or do anything huge. That is totally fine. I think oftentimes the most meaningful gestures are the small ones, the quiet, the intentional ones.

We don't have to be career philanthropists to make an impact. So first of all, there are some simple ways to give back to the RA community the way your mom did. You could connect with other people who live with ra. You could attend or even run an online support group. You could volunteer for a local arthritis charity.

You could raise money from friends and family. For one, raise awareness in your circles. I also did some quick Googling on this, and a cool idea I read about was creating a small care package or comfort kit for people dealing with chronic pain. Apparently that can mean a lot to people. The other thing you can do is create a couple small rituals or traditions inspired by your mom.

So if she had a favorite charity, an annual event, or a certain way of helping that was uniquely hers, even if it's just the way she conducted herself at these charity events, or the way she talked to people or the way she listened, you could continue those traditions, make those a part of your life.

Another way you can honor her, sort of a six minute networking inspired idea. Can you connect people the way your mom did? Maybe you can introduce people in the communities that she moved through, kick off some new relationships. You could start a new community if it's not too heavy of a lift, or just look for ways to bring people together in all areas of your life the way that your mom probably did.

I also think that anyone going through grief is kind of an expert in grief, and you can help other people who are mourning. Again, this doesn't need to be a formal thing. Your empathy, your insight, your availability to people who have lost someone, it's super powerful and it doesn't require you to start a formal grief charity.

We learn from one another's stories, especially when it comes to loss. And every time you make time for somebody who's going through it, you're gonna be kind of connecting with your mom, honoring her memory, really

[01:04:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: sharing her spirit with

[01:04:02] Jordan Harbinger: people.

[01:04:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I love all of that, Jordan. I think that's what honoring somebody's memory ultimately comes down to in the end.

Right? It's just like embodying the best parts of them and telling their story. I've been thinking about this a lot lately too, just how we keep people alive. It's funny, sometimes I'll, I'll do some ridiculous bit with my sister or my family. We'll host a dinner together and I'll just be like, oh man, there's my grandma.

It's like, she's right here, you know? Or I don't know, you know, you give somebody an extra big hug or you make a certain gesture, you know, like you move your hand in a certain way or you arch your eyebrow in a certain way. And I'm just like, oh yeah, there's my grandfather. You know, there's my dad who's still alive.

But it's like so funny to notice these qualities popping up in you. I was thinking about this this morning too, 'cause I worked out at home. I, I didn't go to, to yoga. A lot of the time when I work out, I think about my grandma, my mom's mom, who until she was very old, this lady worked out every single day.

So these rituals, these values, they don't necessarily need to be around philanthropy per se. They can also just be about the way your mom lived her life, the way she saw the world. Like Jordan said, how she treated people, how she laughed, you know, what she found interesting or moving or funny. I think that's a great way to celebrate somebody and that can make a huge impact on other people too.

[01:05:15] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed, Gabe, I've loved that. So I hope that gives you some ideas for how to keep your mom's memory alive. But I gotta say the fact that you're asking this question at all, that you're moved to do something meaningful for her. That tells me you're already honoring her and I'm very confident she's gonna live on in big ways and in small ways, especially the small ways.

I

[01:05:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: totally agree. Just keep her close to your heart and she'll stick around. I promise you that.

[01:05:37] Jordan Harbinger: Go back and check out Mike Rowe and our Skeptical Sunday on food packaging. If you haven't done so yet, the best things that have happened in my life in business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust, and I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself.

It's our six minute networking course. The course is free. I don't need your credit card number. It's not gross or schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. The drills take a few minutes a day. You can binge the course. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks, build relationships before you need them.

You can find all that again for free over@sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts are on the website, advertisers discounts, ways to support the show all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram, Gabriel Mizrahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Foggerty. Of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing things you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You are about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show about a guy born into the world of organized crime, who spent much of his life as an enforcer for the Italian Mafia.

[01:07:03] Clip: So I'm in the club and I'm putting so many envelopes together. This guy walks in, so I get up, I say, excuse me, can I help? You? Said, yeah, well, I talked to, he pulled out a gun. I still got the first start right over here. This guy beat me so bad. I don't even know how I made it back downtown. I was crawling out of the place.

Literally, I was crawling out of the place, and I remember him saying, you come back here. Your mother's gonna have to have a closed coffin for you. I'm gonna blow you and head off. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. PS my cousin takes me off from the hospital. About five, six days later, they told me who this guy was.

When I seen Joey D, we went to the basement, all weapons. His family were gun runners. I mean, if you wanted to B 52 bomber, he'll tell you, I'll get it you in three days. He'll have it at your doorstep. I mean, they have Baz Zoo and his, they had hang gr. I mean, they had stuff like you never saw. He goes, me pick out something.

I take them a cousin's car and I drive the third avenue and I park right in front of the place. There's a parking space. I got the gun in my waistband. I go to go in and dookie the bartender seat. He goes, what are you doing here? I says, don't worry about it. I said, don't worry about it. Says I want to talk to him.

I figured I would really talk to him when I walked through and I turned around. I seen him. He had his back to me and he was talking to this girl Karen School. I'll never forget, KA, the music goes down and I hear her tell him. She says, Anthony's behind you. For whatever the reason before she even said it.

I had the gun in my hand. This guy gets up. What did I tell you? You dirty motherfucker. Your mother's gonna have a closed coffee. I'm gonna blow you a fucking head. He opens his jacket and I seen the gun in his waist, mate. He puts his hand on it. I just picked up my hand like this and emptied the whole clip into there.

Joe all give a drink. He gives me a seven and seven. Look at this kid. He goes, he just killed somebody and sitting there killed him as a cucumber.

[01:08:39] Jordan Harbinger: For more with former mafia enforcer, Anthony Raimondi, including the many creative ways mobsters have gotten rid of bodies over the years. Check out episode 4, 2 5 on the Jordan Harbinger Show.