131: How to Know When It’s Time to Start a Side Hustle | Feedback Friday

Transcript for How to Know When It's Time to Start a Side Hustle - Feedback Friday (Episode 131)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. I'm here with producer, Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger Show we love having conversations with our fascinating guests and this week we had Chris Pfaff talking about while we had a very frank discussion of what it takes to make it in today's business climate, how to stay tenacious when you fail over and over again. And why sometimes running a business, even something as fun and exciting as a top level street wear brand, which is what he does, can be more of a curse than a blessing. We also had Srini Rao talking about creativity. It's one of those black box topics that sometimes doesn't even look like a skill. Are you born with it? Can you cultivate it? Why are some people so much more creative than others? And what does being creative even mean in the first place? So these were interesting shows that we had this week that I think you all will enjoy. So if you missed any of those, go back and grab them.

[00:00:48] Of course, our primary mission here on the show is to pass along our guest's wisdom and our experiences and insights along to you. So in other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations directly with you. And that's what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com and try to keep them concise. We really appreciate that. It does increase your chances that your question will get answered on the air. And we've seen some really great stuff recently as well.

[00:01:12] I was in LA all last week doing some appearances and I've got some fun shows coming out as a result of that. And who knows, every time I go down to LA, LA is the city where a lot of promises are made.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:23] Yeah, ain't that the truth.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:25] Hopefully one day we'll have some really big news coming out of some of these, but these are slow moving trains. But it was really fun to go down there and do some interviews in person, get some really interesting stuff coming up here on the show and got to hang out with you J.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:39] Yeah, it was nice seeing you. You and Jen came by. We hung out in my studio slash garage. We Maroned it up, did a little Marc Maron in the garage.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:46] That’s right.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:47] It was fun. It was great seeing you guys.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:48] Yeah, it was good to see you. And of course, as always this week we've got some fun ones and some doozies. I can't wait to dive in. Jason, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:55] Hello Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I'm married with two kids. Long before I discovered your old podcast years ago and before I was married, I was in a dark place and couldn't function at all in social settings. If I went out on a date, I would inevitably say something insensitive or inappropriate and would never hear from the woman again. So while what I'm currently dealing with probably wouldn't be much cause for alarm. I feel that my past social anxiety is bubbling up because of it. I have an issue where two women who were very friendly to me all of a sudden do their best to avoid me. One is a coworker and one is a teacher at my daughter's school. I introduced myself to one teacher who I see daily because she works carpool at my daughter's school. I made a joke about her being strict with her students and she laughed and we spoke for a short time. After my volunteer date, she would smile and wave to me at the carpool when I was dropping off my daughter. I simply did the same because there really isn't time for much else. When I dropped my daughter off the next week, she helps the car in front of me and then walks by my car and helps the one behind me all well avoiding eye contact.

[00:02:56] The second instance of this happening is it work. A woman that I never spoke to but attended the yoga class I go to at work, started attending our Toastmasters club that we have in the office. I felt it was appropriate to say hello and mentioned how she's in the yoga class with me as well. We're trying to up our numbers in the clubs so we usually encourage new people. I would talk occasionally with her and say hello in the hallway. There was a Halloween event at my office that I brought my family in for and we saw each other, but there was too much of a crowd to say hello. After this she hasn't been to yoga or Toastmasters. When I was speaking to someone else on her team at a Diwali celebration in the office, she actively kept her back to me and did her best not to make eye contact. It wasn't until the coworker I was speaking with called out to her multiple times that she came over and said hello.

[00:03:41] Every time I see either of these people I get very anxious like I have to resolve something with them. I'd love it if I never had to see them again because it seems like that's what they want. To protect my fragile male ego. I tell myself that they were interested in me, but upon finding out that I'm married, they wanted nothing to do with me. Am I looking for validation in the wrong places? Am I overly flirtatious? Am I a huge douche for even thinking any of this? How do I get rid of this anxiety that I thought I'd never have to deal with again? Thank you. Signed, What The Hell?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:14] So this is so familiar. It's a bit scary. I'm getting triggered here. I used to be exactly like this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:20] Oh, it's so familiar, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:22] This guy is an overthinker and a mind reader. Explain mind reader, Jason. You're kind of brought this one up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:28] Yeah. Mind reading is when you just put your voice, the voice in your head, that won't shut up into their persona thinking that all of the bad things that you think are going to happen or actually that are the things in their head and almost always that's not it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:42] Right.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:42] They've got their own issues, and their own stuff going on and you just kind of paced your neuroses over what they might be thinking.

Jordan Harbinger: [00: 04:52] Yes, exactly. And I think a lot of us have been guilty of that and you may be right about them being interested in you, but now feeling anxious about you being married. They might have social anxiety when it comes to you and they're maybe nervous or maybe you did something horribly wrong and you're totally unaware of it and you'll never find out. And me just saying this is making a massively nervous and now your thoughts are running wild. And I regret even saying this now because you're going to lose sleep over it. But my point is that if you're socially anxious or an over-thinker or a mind reader when it comes to other people and perceived problems that they may or may not have with you, you're always going to do this to yourself. And one thing I learned about overthinking other people's intentions is that I almost was never right about things. I lost tons of sleep. I worried about a lot of things that never happened and then ended up being far off the mark. And even when I was right about things, all the worrying and the guesswork I did around the problem. Well, never actually helped the situation ever.

[00:05:46] So here, if you're right, if you're right on this one, you gained nothing because you'll certainly never know why they're acting this way. And if you're wrong, now you're just torturing yourself. I think as humans all likely to do this, in certain cases. I had colleagues on Wall Street who consistently came into my office to panic about how they're totally getting fired this week and I'm being sidelined on this project or that project because so-and-so doesn't like me. None of that helped their career. None of it helped them position themselves for a better job later on. It was just one big waste of everyone's time.

[00:06:18] So this isn't really about you having a big ego, but it is at least in part about validation. You're looking for validation, but not in the way that you think. It's not that you're dependent on the opinions of these women for your sense of self-worth. It's that you thought you had some attention from them upon which you then pinned a very delicate benefit to your ego or to your sense of self-esteem. So when that benefit, their attention went away or changed, even if it didn't, and you're just perceiving that it did, or when you imagined that it did, you felt like you lost something that was then very personal to you, even though it shouldn't have been.

[00:06:54] So while this answer might seem to be never get excited about anyone and never form relationships with anyone. I'm going to speak from my personal experience here and tell you that it's actually completely okay to do this type of thing once in a while. But the key is to remember that if you stop getting attention from someone, it's seldom about you, it's more about them. And even if it is partly about you, there's literally nothing you can do about it. So you should simply move on as if nothing happened. Now, if you suspect you've done something like you've been improper, or you made some blatant, embarrassing and unwanted advance, that's one thing. But if you can't figure out what the heck is going on, there is zero benefit to worrying about it. And the way to fight this is to realize that you're viewing all your own reactions through your own emotional filter, which is that of someone who's normally outside their comfort zone in social situations.

[00:07:42] So your ego may actually be looking for reasons to convince you that being social with other people is scary and you shouldn't do it anymore. And our egos don't just protect us by lying to us about how great we are. Sometimes they protect us by telling us how weird we are so that we don't put ourselves out there in the first place. Trust me, there is no benefit to this. I've got decades of personal testing under my belt in this area of my own life, and the sooner you stop listening to this little negative voice in your head, the better.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:11] Do you remember that old Mark Twain quote, “I'm an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:17] Right, yes.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:18] Yeah, it's kind of the same thing. Even though that wasn't actually Mark Twain. Mark Twain the most over quoted and incorrectly quoted men of all time. It was a great quote though, but not Mark Twain, but yeah, most of the things you have in your head never happened.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:32] Good call. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:34] Dear Jordan, I met a beautiful girl on vacation early in 2018. After the vacation we went our separate ways. She went back to Germany and I back to Canada. We kept in contact and she decided to come to Canada to visit me. At this point, emotions had already started to develop and a few months later I decided to fly over to Germany for a few weeks and even visited her family and friends. Meanwhile, I was accepted to university in Vancouver. I had already decided for a career change a few months before my trip to go see her. I really tried to see my options and considered moving to Germany to live with her. After a couple of months in the first term, I like this new program. I was also kind of terrified of immigrating to a new country with a new language for the second time in my life. I'm 26 without any solid career, so I decided to stay in Vancouver. I believe I've made a logical decision, but at the same time I think of myself as a coward who didn't go after someone I really, really liked. I'm writing to get your perspective on this. I would greatly appreciate it. Best regards, Career Over Companion.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:35] Ah, yes, young love. I've been in your shoes before as well. You doing what's logical? That's a good thing here. If you were 35, you were in a career transition, you were looking for a change, you didn't have any obligations and you'd met the same gal and really hit it off. My advice might be different, but at age 26, you're at the beginning of your university, you're at the beginning of this program, you're at the beginning of your career. I have to say you did the right thing. You can keep a long distance relationship going if that's something you're interested in doing. But I'd recommend simply just stay in touch. You both have years to go before settling down is really a good idea. And given the stage of rapid growth, you're both there, that's just goes double. If you tack yourself to one person while you're still figuring out who you are and what you want to do, those growing pains can be pretty intense. All the more so when you're from different countries and cultures and a lot of people that get married young and they're successful in doing so, they're from conservative cultures that allow the subordination of certain career needs, especially of one person over the other.

[00:10:41] So you've got to be -- you've got to be cognizant of that. There's going to be counterexamples look at exactly what their culture and values are. That's why you're going to see a difference there. Spend some time at university, grow into your own skin. I never want to tell someone that there are plenty of fish in the sea when they found someone they're into, but in this case, it's appropriate. You've got a lot of personal and professional growth ahead so does she. Moving to Germany, which is a great place. I've lived there before, I took a year. I lived there during high school. I loved it. You're still going to grow apart and you'll resent the anchor you've placed on one another and it's just going to end up with disaster, but to be 26 again.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:19] Oh man, I wish I was 26 again. But yeah, totally, totally on point here. We've had so many questions in the past couple of weeks on Feedback Friday that revolved around people who got married too young and cause all sorts of problems, and they're trying to dig their way out of it. So yeah, I think, I think he definitely made the right decision here.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:37] So congrats on all the success and yes, stay in touch. But bear in mind it's okay if this is just something that ends, it's all right. You're going to have a few of those in your life and you don't have to be attached to each one.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:52] This Feedback Friday, we'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:56] This episode is sponsored in part by Sport Clips. Do your hair a favor by checking in online at Sport Clips. They've got a pretty good deal over there. I will tell you for a chain barbershop, I was not my -- let me just say it. Personally, I'd expected the bar to be low. I didn't expect it to be one of the better haircuts that I've ever gotten and I certainly didn't expect it to be really affordable and fun. I mean the stylist was cool. Kate and I had a good conversation. They give you this hot towel treatment in the shoulder, a neck massage and the shampoo. It's really, really actually kind of a nice treat. They've got a bajillion TVs in there, so if you're not -- if you're unlike me and you actually don't like talking to the stylist, you know me. I can't -- I can't shut my mouth. But if you don't like to have small talk, this is the place for you. You can watch the game over. 1800 locations nationwide and great haircuts. What I like about it is they keep a file on you so you get the same haircut wherever you go at any location. It's all on the computer, so check them out at SportsClip.com/checkin. That’s SportsClip.com/checkin.

[00:12:54] This episode is sponsored in part by HostGator. When was the last time you thought about your online presence? Sure. You probably have a Facebook account and a Twitter account that you never use and an Instagram account that you use to get FOMO and jealousy or I don’t know, your personal relationships. Maybe you had a MySpace account when it was all the rage, everything you did there is now gone. What's going to happen to what you're sharing today when the masses decide to move on to the next big thing? You can't control the social media landscape, but you can control your own website. So HostGator, they are around since 2002 you can set you up with one today. You don't even need to know a thing about coding. HostGator takes care of the technical details and leaves you to make your mark online as you see fit and that's why we recommend HostGator's Website Builder. HostGator allows you to choose from over a hundred mobile friendly templates. Your site's going to work on a phone, a tablet, a desktop, you want to use WordPress, no problem one click later, your good. Add-on options are plentiful, PayPal, SEO, all that search engine visibility stuff handled. You also get 99.9 percent guaranteed uptime and HostGator's support team is there to help 24/7, 365. Don't worry about all this breaking the bank either, HostGator's given our wonderful listeners, that's you, up to 62 percent off all packages for new users with a 45 day complete money back guarantee. So go to hostgator.com/jordan right now to sign up. That's hostgator.com/jordan.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:14] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals, and if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, just head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:41] All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:43] Hey Jordan and Jason, what's the most graceful way to turn down a retention bonus without sending a signal to the company you are looking for another job? So for every listeners knowledge who does not know what a retention bonus is, it's the incentive for an employee to stay for a certain period of time for X amount of dollars. It's an opportunity to negotiate and customize the terms of the agreement and it's sometimes in installments, but after the completion of a specified period of service during the course of the full service period by weekly, monthly, quarterly, et cetera, you get a single lump sum payment after the completion of the full service period after the rest of it. It's complicated, but basically what they are doing is they're trying to give you a bag of money so you don't leave the company. Now, the typical retention period is one year to three years depending on the size of the bonus. But for someone who isn't interested in staying with the company long term, this seems like a tricky area to navigate. It's not as simple as keeping the money and pay it back if I found another job. Income tax is collected on the money at the time, the bonus is paid out. So I would find myself in a situation where I not only ended up not keeping the money, but also out the taxes paid as well with the potential to be knocked into a higher tax bracket, and it's just complicated, but it could be a huge net loss. Thanks guys. Signed, One Foot Out the Door.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:03]This is a tricky one. It really is because I don't think you need to feel obligated to take a retention bonus. For me, I would literally say, and this is Alex Kouts level advice, I got this directly from him. I would say, you're paying me a bonus for insurance against me leaving. I'm not comfortable giving anyone that assurance for two to three years regardless of the company or situation. It has nothing to do with this specific situation. I value my freedom to choose my own path and no one can guarantee what's going to happen with this team or with this company for that period of time. Because here's the thing, retention bonuses, they're like normally for six months, two to three years, I've never even heard of a retention bonus for two to three years. If that's the timeframe. This is actually insane, and what you could try to do is you could negotiate a slightly higher bonus paid out at the end of the period.

[00:16:58] So what you'd say is, “Hey look, I don't want the retention bonus up front. I'd rather have a larger bonus when I complete my term here.” And that way you're sort of accounting for the time value of money, and you can accept pretty much whatever they can do because you almost certainly won't take it. And if you end up staying, you just get a retention bonus larger than what everyone else got. You got to make sure you calculate the amount after compounded interest and taxes, and ask for something higher than that. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense for you logically to do that. Otherwise you could in theory take the money and if you agree to something less than that, that might draw out suspicion. This might draw suspicion anyway because I'm not sure who would take that as a manager. It's sort of defeats the entire purpose of the bonus, but by negotiating something higher, maybe you can sort of pull the wool over on this one. Honestly though, I think anybody would agree to that or at least most managers wouldn't. It might even signal something is wrong because who doesn't want money up front, but you could try to ask for it in stock options which you can then electively exercise or not. It depends on your company.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:18:08] Oh, that’s a good idea. I like that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:10] Yeah. I mean, look, if you're in a startup, you might be able to do something like that. If you worked for Ford, well who knows? There might be stock options there too. I really don't know, but if you can do it and stock options, it'll be a little sneakier, right? Because you're asking for something different and it's like, “Oh, well in that case, dah, dah, dah, dah.” Then you kind of get these vested stock options over time and it may not draw as much suspicion, but I would definitely start with, “Look, I'm not comfortable guaranteeing anyone this.” Two to three years, that is just absolutely unacceptable. So many things can happen during that time period. So many things.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:18:42] It was way too long.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:43] It’s way too long.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:18:44] That is just an anchor. It's an anchor.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:46] Absolutely. Yeah, and it's strange. It's highly unusual. It makes me think -- you know what it makes me think? Makes me think that he's grossly underpaid and they're just praying that you don't find out about it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:18:57] Totally. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds about right.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:01] Because then if they're like, if you're like, wait a minute, my colleagues and other companies are getting 10 grand more per year and you've got a $4,000 retention bonus. They're like, “Yeah, well we can look at this once your next term is over,” and then you're like, “I'm leaving.” And they're like, “Oh you're going to have to pay that retention bonus back.” It's like, “Oh shoot. I just locked myself in,” and they knew that this was going to -- just something weird about a two to three year retention bonus term that just doesn't smell right. So be careful and figuring out what's up. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:30] Jordan, I'm a 40 year old man who became single 18 months ago after a long relationship. After the breakup, I started regularly attending yoga class as part of a plan to work mindful practice into my weekly routine. I've been going to the same studio for more than a year and recently an attractive young woman in the class has started getting chatty with me. She always says it's nice to see me. And a few weeks ago, she touched my arm in a similar exchange of words. She doesn't talk to any of the other men in class. Finding a woman to date is not the reason I go to yoga, but I want to ask her out and I also want to respect the yoga space and not tarnish my ongoing practice in the studio. Am I correct to interpret her actions as an invitation? How do I ask her out without being awkward or inappropriate when there are always other students around in the quiet studio space? Thank you very much. Signed, The Weary Yogi.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:22] I love this. I think it's legit that you're respecting the practice space, not because of some metaphysical BS, but because it can impact others and you value your own practice over a date. You're a considerate person. I once went to a dance with a girl from karate when I was in high school. Not exactly the same thing, but then other guys at the dojo who liked her started being jealous and it impacted friendships and it impacted training and it became a mess and that was her asking me out. And it's funny how high school is so petty and yet as adults we are only slightly better at not making a mess of things, sometimes we're worse. If you want to see if she's interested, figure out a way to bump into her outside the quiet practice room, perhaps in the lobby of the yoga school. Don't be a creeper and follow her out to her car or anything. The more casual it seems the better. Ask if she's tried some, I don’t know new tea or coffee place or old tea or coffee place. Ask if she wants to go get something after class. Super casual. If she says no, no big deal, let it go like nothing happened. Maybe misread a signal. If she says yes or gives you a legitimate rain check like, “Hey, I've got to go pick up my kids, but I'd love to later today or tomorrow,” then you're good. This isn't super hard. I applaud you wanting to be discreet and not make things awkward for everyone else at the yoga studio. Sometimes our hobby practice locations are almost like the office. We don't want to dip our pen in the company ink, but we'd also be fools not to become acquainted with the people with whom we share a lot in common and hobbies and just they have the similar values. It just seems foolish to avoid those people because they might be the best fit for us. So best of luck and namaste.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:21:55] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:58] This episode is also sponsored by Gusto. If you have a business or you know someone who does, you probably know that small business owners wear a lot of hats and some of those hats are great. Some like filing taxes and running payroll, for most people, not so great, and that's where Gusto comes in. Gusto makes payroll, taxes, and HR actually easy for small businesses, fast and simple. Payroll processing benefits and expert HR support all in one place. And Gusto automatically pays and files your federal, state, and local taxes. So you don't have to worry about it. Plus they make it easy to add on health benefits and even 401Ks for your team. Those old school clunky payroll providers just weren't built for the way modern small businesses work, but Gusto is. So let them handle one of your many hats. You have better things to do and listeners get three months free when they run their first payroll. Try a demo and see for yourself at gusto.com/jordan. That's G-U-S-T-O.com/jordan, to get three months free when you run your first payroll.

[00:22:54] This episode is sponsored in part by BiOptimizers, so probiotics, all the rage right now. A friend of mine, actually the founder of BiOptimizers now that I think about it, that's a weird coincidence. Anyway, gave me a bunch of probiotics. I was very skeptical and I thought there's no way these work, and according to my friend Naveen Jain, who's a billionaire and founder of ViOme and a listener of the Jordan Harbinger Show. Essentially this atom test shows there's no probiotic showing up in people's gut analysis. In other words, 99 percent of probiotics don't colonize your gut as claimed as just junk. And still research shows we need good bacteria to fight the bad guy. So what's the solution? Well, there's a single strain, proteolytic probiotic called P3-OM and P3-OM uses a patented natural process to upgrade a well-researched probiotic strain. And the result is a new super strain that some called the Navy SEAL of probiotics because it kicks bad bacteria is butts. And the P3-OM patent actually proves this train is proteolytic, meaning it digests protein, it's antiviral, it's antiretroviral, it eliminates pathogens and waste and is maintainable in the human digestive system. Once in your body, the P3-OM strain doubles every 20 minutes and helps get rid of the bad guys before it's safely eliminated. And like I said, I started taking these. And at first I was like, “Whoa, major gut changes.” And now I really try not to be too TMI here too TMI. TTMI, but it works. And you can -- there is evidence that it works. How's that?

[00:24:22] To see it in action and go to p3om.com/jordan. That's p3om.com/jordan. Watch it dissolve a piece of raw steak kind of fascinating. Try P3-OM risk-free today. They have the best guarantee. I've seen in the industry. A full 365 full money back guarantee. So if you don't find P3-OM, the most potent probiotic you've ever taken, their support team will give you all your money back. No questions asked. When you go to p3om.com/jordan, use the coupon code Jordan20 to receive 20 percent off. That's p3om.com/jordan, and Jordan20 to get 20 percent off. And let me know what you think. I don't need photos, but just let me know what you think of this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:02] Eiw.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:02] It’s probiotic.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:03] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air and to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit Jordan harbinger.com/deals, and now back to the show for the conclusion of your questions here on Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:21] All right, next.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:22] Hello, from a long-time fan. At work, some sensitive information came my way which I should not have been given access. Basically I asked to contact to verify some details about my clients. This person with only good intentions cut a corner in order to get me the requested information. While I appreciate the effort, I can't help but think that someone else might've used that information with selfish or malicious intent which could compromise my contact position in the organization and the privacy or safety of many clients. Should I point this out to this person? How do I make it clear that I should not have been trusted with access to the information without seeming unappreciative or scolding? If we worked for the same organization, I would approach it directly, but I feel like this requires a different approach since this doesn't directly impact my professional standing. While I appreciate the effort, I would hate for this person to be fired due to this kind of error. Thank you, Grateful But Concerned.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:20] Ah, okay. This is vague.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:22] It's very vague.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:23] But I'm just going to assume they accidentally sent medical data or financial data. I mean, what else would even make a difference, right?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:30] Yeah, and it's somebody that he doesn't work with. So it’s somebody from outside the company that he was just getting a reference from that sent him way too much info.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:37] Yeah, or like the personnel file or something, I mean who knows. What I would do is get the sender on the phone and say something along the lines of, and you can do that by via cryptic email. Like, “Hi Marian, I'd love to get on the phone with you really quick. I have a quick question.” That's easier to say on the phone and she'll be like, “Oh, I'm so curious.” And then you get on the phone, you don't have to make it any more cryptic than that and don't hint at anything bad because you don't want her to worry about it. Then just say something along the lines of, “Hey, I appreciate you sending along the data on so-and-so. I'm guessing you didn't notice this, but you accidentally sent along their entire file.” I'm sure you didn't see this and I wanted to call and reassure you that I deleted the data so you don't have to worry about it coming back up from my end. And then you can say something like, “I've seen this mistake here and there, and I've almost made it myself, so no worries. It happens.” Even if this is something you rarely see, it helps to make the other person feel better, like they're not stupid and that they did this thing unknowingly and it also reassures them that you're on their side because look, it's an accident. You know they didn't see it. You really give them a way out so they can say, “Oh my gosh, that was an accident and I didn't see it.” It's very possible she later realized the mistake and she didn't want to call attention to it hoping you'd forgotten about it or that you didn't notice somehow. She may well actually be very worried and embarrassed about this and just hoping it goes away. And by calling her and addressing this in a friendly way, you can alleviate that as well as give her the warning. She needs to be more careful next time without losing her job, and then there's no written record here. It's a phone call, it's not an email. You can both pretend more or less that it just never happened.

[00:28:19] As long as you're 100 percent sure this won't affect you negatively in some way in the future. And this is for this other person's benefit, I see this as a good deed. There's no real victim here and in this case, no harm, no foul. Good [indiscernible] [00:28:30] too, stick your neck out even just a little and let her know about this. You'll build an ally here through this opportunity because this would be a crummy way to lose a job. So I think she'll probably be pretty thankful that you pointed this out in a way that doesn't result in her having something -- some permanent mark on her file, or even just an email in her inbox that she's not thrilled is there.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:28:49] Yeah, I think grateful but concerned is a good citizen. I think them standing up and just saying, “Hey, this was a mistake.” You shouldn't do this in the future as a good thing.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:57] Right, golden rule. Would you want to know? Yes, okay, then do it in a way that doesn't result in any sort of permanent record here. The end. Learning experience handled. You know that's what you'd want to happen to you, so go ahead and do it for them. All right, next up.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:10] Hey guys, love the show. I'm a fellow podcaster and teacher at a large high school in Southern California. I've had a few personal interactions, less than five, with our principal over the course of three years. Unfortunately, those interactions have all been negative. They involve allegations made towards me by students that have been found to be fabricated and unsubstantiated. In informal settings, I've been standing around to fellow teachers only to have the principal greet the group by shaking hands with them and not me. I've had them dismissed comments and concerns with various work-related issues and as a tradition, when new staff members have celebrated the birth of a new child, the principal usually sends out an all staff email with a congratulatory message. When my daughter was born, nothing, nada, zip. I understand that people even in a leadership role are biased and my principal’s confirmation bias towards me seems to be unshakeable. I feel that every time he sees me or my name comes across his desk, subconsciously he sees me as a liability rather than an asset. This makes for an uncomfortable and unwelcome work environment. It's a morale killer and the worst part is he never sees or may not even be interested in the good work that I do with the students every day. At the end of the school year, the rumor is that he's leaving, and we'll have someone new in charge of the school. At this point, is it worth trying to make an effort for him to recognize me as a valued member of the staff or should I just fly low under the radar until he's gone? Thanks so much. Sincerely, Damned If I Do, Damned If I Don't.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:44] This actually sounds a bit like bullying.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:30:48 A lot like bullying.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:48] This is how adults do it.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:30:49] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:50] Yeah. It's a little bit like, “Huh, we don't care about you. We're leaving you out deliberately. I'm ignoring you personally.” I mean, I know exactly what that feels like. It sucks. I've been treated like this in certain situations. When I first started at a law firm in the United Kingdom, it even happened in some of the old -- some of the old companies that I've worked with. I mean, this is stuff that honestly people do all the time. I actually reported it to HR when I worked at a law firm because I figured if I got let go from that, it was that firm. It was for the best. The HR department actually told me I was imagining things, which is a typical response.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:22] Oh man.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:23] Yeah. Well, you know what? It's funny, I was so naive back then that drove me nuts. So I actually reported it to my career services at my university, which is such a millennial type thing to do. But the reason I did it was because career services reached out and was like, “Was there anything concerning about your summer?” And I was like, “Actually I thought I was being bullied and then I reported it to HR and they didn't care and they said that it was me imagining things” And then so career services is like, “Wait, what exactly happened?” I was like, “Maybe I'm being sensitive, but dah, dah, dah, dah, dah,” and they hit the roof.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:31:54] Really?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:545 They told me -- Yeah. They told me this is inappropriate behavior and career services actually called HR and recruiting at my law firm, and the law firm did a total 180. They flew a senior associate out to meet with me, take me out to dinner, which seemed insane to me. I felt bad that they did this, but back then firms had to care and they still do really to some degree. They had to care what schools thought of them because it damages their recruiting. If the school here is, “Hey, I got mistreated when I was there and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. That is such a bad sign, because no school wants to send their students, believe it or not, these people do care if their students end up having fulfilling careers. It's not just a spreadsheet. So they were pretty pissed and they were pretty annoyed because look, law schools like Michigan, they've got a lot of choices about which firms to let into their recruiting. So they just can say, “Look, we don't have room for you. You treated students poorly in the past. We're just going to have one of the bajillion other firms that wants to treat students well, come in because it makes us look better.” So they were -- it was funny to watch this firm backtrack. “Oh, you misunderstood. We didn't say it was no big deal. We take this very seriously, all this BS.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:06] Damage control.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:07] Such damage control, and I had them offering me all kinds of stuff and I was just like, you know what? I'm just not going to let you guys off on this one. So I got a job at a different firm and I had a great time. It was funny to watch them squirm. It really was.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:20] That’s good story.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:21] Yeah, it really -- it's nice finally, but I don't think I would even do that now. I think it'd be too scared now. But anyway, if you've got a good plan to get back into this guy's good graces, the principals good graces, I say go for it. If not, forget it. You'll just draw attention to yourself in a situation where perhaps the less the new principal knows the better. And when a new leader comes into a position, they're very likely to start with a blank slate. Sure, he may hear things here and there, but ideally this person comes in with a blank slate. You should take advantage of that, and I'm sorry to hear about this, but the good news is that it sounds like his reign is coming to an end anyway, so there's no need to bend over backwards to appease someone who has it out for you and is bullying and on the way out themselves. Look, maybe some of this is an oversight, but it sounds like this guy has it out for you and is not handling it well because he's treating you poorly, which is so not necessary. It just so not. So good riddance. Enjoy the new boss. Start with a clean slate. Pretend it never happened and I think will be fine.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:22] All right. For this next question, we're going to change things up just a little bit. This is Jordan with John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneur on Fire and Jordan is going to take over my duties for once and he's going to be asking the questions. Well, also answering them with our special guest host John Lee Dumas. Take it away, Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:41] Hey Jordan. I'm having an issue that I'm sure is common, but I can't seem to break out of. I've been in a professional rut for years, five years to be exact. For numerous reasons, I need to find a new career. I have a demanding, demeaning, unrealistic, immature co-manager that I have to work directly with most of the day. Upper management does not act on serious issues within the company and the culture here has been depressing since a merger a few years back. My problem is I don't know where to go from here. I'm a marketing director in an old media company, but I've worked on stacking my skills and highlighting aspects of myself that would apply to numerous roles. Despite this, I can't seem to get a call or email back to most applications and I don't know if this is still what I want in a career.

[00:35:22] Networking for me is tricky because most people in the companies where I'd like to pursue a career are also connected to the co-manager I talked about earlier. I fear they'd out me for looking for a new job to that co-manager with whom they've had a relationship for decades. I would love the freedom to the option to quit my job tomorrow, pursue a new career that fits my personality, pursue it with schooling, training, et cetera, but that's not feasible with a young family and financial obligations. Do you have any advice? Signed, In A Rut With A Nut. And I wanted to see what some other experts on this thought. So I brought in John Lee Dumas of Entrepreneur on Fire. And John, I don't want to be the guy who says the answer to everything is starting your own business. But for me this sounds like a classic case of give it a shot to either start your own if you really want to, or at least this guys got to work in some way to build a network around this co-manager that he seems to think has tentacles and everything. What do you think?

John Lee Dumas: [00:36:18] Well first off, let's kind of give him a little bit of credit for starting off with In A Rut With A Nuts. To me that shows a little bit of good humor here, and I like your advice, Jordan. But I also want to kind of bring it back to what he did say about how he has a family. He has kids, he has all these responsibilities and the reality is, and we have to live in a world reality that most people have these obligations. They start every single month way behind the eight ball and you've got to just play catch up for like two weeks, three weeks just to get to even before they can even start the put anything away in the bank. So like going from making whatever he's making right now to making nothing for six to 12 months building up his own thing. He seems to think that's not a possibility, which I definitely get. So I'm a huge believer and a fan of doing the side hustle. I mean this is a guy that obviously has definite skills and I hear his worries for sure about how he doesn't want other people to see that he's potentially stepping on toes or going outside of his bounds and going to get like hammered by people in his industry because he might be stealing clients or doing whatever he might be doing. But the reality is you've got to start a side hustle because you need to get the ball rolling before you take what I would call that final leap. You want to be able to prove yourself that, “Hey, I can at least put half to maybe three quarters of what I'm making on a monthly basis into my pocket on the side hustle before I can then turn all my attention to this and go all in.”

[00:37:41] So to me it's a side hustle. There's a great podcast episode, not episode as a whole podcast actually called Side Hustle School with Chris Guillebeau. I know you've had him on the show as well Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:50] Right, yeah.

John Lee Dumas: [00:37:50] And he just tells stories after stories about people who have done this, who have not liked their job, who are not in a good situation, who have family support, mortgages to pay. But guess what? They figured out how to do it. So obviously besides continuing to listen to this great podcast the Jordan Harbinger Show, I would start listening to the Side Hustle School and you know this is seven, 10 minute episodes. You're going to get a lot of great feedback and stories from people that are doing exactly what you want to do in different industries and different niches. You can apply them to what you're doing. I really think that could be a great way to give you that idea and that spark to at least start getting something coming your way before you kind of just take that blind leap of faith.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:29] The other thing that starting a little bit of a side hustle does is it eliminates some of the fear of looking for a job. It's kind of counterintuitive, but if you start a side hustle, you can get a little bit of a renewed sense of purpose or meaning. So it might make your current job more tolerable. But also you might think, “Huh, I've actually generated a couple of clients on my own. This isn't really that tough. I can scale this up a little bit here and there.” And it's kind of like having the keys to the prison. Like it's less of a problem when you have other options. And the other thing here, In A Rut With A Nut says is “I want to pursue a new career that fits my personality,” pursue it with schooling, training, et cetera. Look, man, I'm a an attorney that became a broadcaster. I'm not saying you have to do some new media or a creative outlet, but most careers I will actually say most, not just a lot, I don't think require you to have gone to school for that degree anymore. I think if you say, I worked in a marketing company for five plus years, I've got experience at this managerial level. I did this, this, this and this, and I would love to get into this totally different career path. You can either find what wouldn't be an entry level role but would be a managerial role and learn about it on the job. I don't think that people are as stuck in their marketing director at a print media company as they think they are because hiring people that can do a good job on pretty much anything. And I know it's, I sound like such an exhausted like real housewife, “I could help, it's so hard to find,” but it really is. So somebody who's got five years of experience, I'd rather hire somebody who has five years of experience doing literally anything in a professional environment than somebody who comes in and says, “Look, I've only been doing this for six months, but I'm hungry and I know how the Internet works.”

[00:40:12] It's like I'd rather have somebody -- depending on the role, but largely in any corporate structure, you'd want somebody who has experience and it doesn't really matter that it's not directly related to the field. So I would say yes, it's hard for you to network because you're worried about it getting back to people, try to create networks and find roles in other areas. You don't have to stay in the same field, and I know that that seems like a big leap, but I think if you do the side hustle, you'll start to see that you don't have to be as afraid of making a leap and you can change -- you can change the game up a little bit. I do respect that he's got a young family. You have to be kind of careful and not do that whole -- I joke about this a lot John, the whole like Instagram influencer where they're like, “Quit your job and go all in. What's wrong with you?” “Yeah, your parents want you to get a job, move out on your own, sleep on a friend's couch while you start your business.” Like all this BS stuff. Don't do that. You have a wife and kids, you don't have the option, play it safe. There's nothing wrong with making a calculated move.

John Lee Dumas: [00:41:14] So here's something to think about. I think this is [indiscernible] [00:41:16]. You might not be a number one In a Rut With A Nut, like you might not be a number one. So why don't you want to find that out before you would take that lead to. That's when you start the side hustle and you are that number one in a side hustle capacity and you try some things out. You get inspired by this, that. You see what works, what doesn't work. And here's something that might happen. I've seen this again happen and by listening to the great stories, I'm on different podcasts. I have seen people who have done these side hustles. What do they do? They start to get traction and they start to get noticed by other people. Somebody might reach out to you and say, “Wow! I love what you're doing and I know that you're doing it a couple hours a day because this is your side hustle, but I need someone like you to implement that in my business. Let me hire you to do your thing in my business.” So now you're not going out there and marketing yourself to other people and kind of rolling the die and maybe getting caught, so to speak. Now you're just doing something that you love, that you enjoy and you're doing it as a side hustle so that the stakes aren't super, super high, because if you feel that side hustle you still get your revenue coming in from your regular job, but somebody finds you and you come in as a number two or number seven or number 34 because you're not meant to be a number one maybe. Maybe you are, and then you go do that thing, six months, 12 months down the road when your side hustle takes off, but maybe you're not and that's okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:30] Yeah. I think there's a lot of people that need to be okay with not being an overnight Instagram influencer millionaire when they're doing a side hustle.

John Lee Dumas: [00:42:37] Jordan, I'd be fine being number 37 at Facebook. I swear to God. I'd be fine with that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:41] Yeah, I'm sure that you would. Yes, I'm sure you don't. Me too. I don't need to be right in ducks corner office all the time. All right. What's next?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:42:51] Hello, J and J. Thank you so much for your show. The Feedback Friday episodes have helped so much. As a relatively young individual, being able to learn from other people's mistakes makes such a difference. I'm currently still in school and have been in a couple of romantic relationships. I ended the longest one that I've had, which clocked in at two and a half years about eight months ago. I ended it because I'm a very ambitious person working to become the best version of myself and I didn't feel that my partner had my kind of drive. I was cordial when I broke up and mentioned that I needed to focus on myself and could not spend the time to truly foster the relationship. Since then, I've not been in any new relationships. However, the woman who I broke up with has hated me ever since. I truly empathize with her position and I've never said anything to her about it. I want her to have her time to heal. I just wonder if there's something else that I should be doing to mend this divide. I'm no longer romantically interested in her, but I see her nearly every day due to school and I don't like leaving anyone with a negative impression. I'm not overly distressed by this particular situation. However, I get the feeling that is a young person. This will not be the last time I have to end a relationship. I want to know if I should just be indifferent to this woman's situation or should I actively be doing something? The person who I broke up with is kind and I don't relish the idea of someone like that spending all that energy just to hate me. Sincerely, My Exes Are Not In Texas.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:24] Oh, well you're a good person for thinking about this. You can ask if she wants to talk and you can smooth things over. If she doesn't though, just respect that she may be really immature, not handling rejection well, and if she does want to talk, then you can try to make sure she understands where you're coming from and try to make things less personal. If she's not responsive though to this, you've done your part. We can't make other people around us handle things in a more mature way. If they're hell bent on dealing with things some other way, we just can't. What you can be happy for here is that someone who is emotionally immature is now out of your life, so the way she's acting now can actually reinforce the fact that you made the right decision. That's how I always look at this. Whenever I have a problem with somebody and they act out about it and it's really immature and it's not done well, I'm just like, “Oh, okay, this reinforces my decision that maybe you're not a good fit for my circle.” You know they're--

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:21] Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:21] They're trying to have a temper tantrum to get their way, which is actually not working. It's doing the opposite because their temper tantrum then forces me to go, “Wow! Looks like I was setting myself up for this for the years to come. I guess I'm glad we don't have a relationship anymore.”

Jason DeFillippo: [00:45:37] Totally.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:37] If anyone ever dumps you and you want to make sure that they feel like maybe that wasn't a good choice, don't act like the fool, don't act aggressive. Act like you're happier as a result and that you're totally fine. That's what gets people in their heads second guessing everything. That's what makes people go, “Wait a minute. Was that a good move?” Acting like a turd only makes them go “Well good. I already did the hard part. Have fun being a turd. Bye.” Geez, you want to get somebody second guessing themselves, kill them with kindness, it works every time.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:08] That's awesome.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:09] Recommendation of the week. What is this, Jason? I never heard of this.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:46:11] This is a new show on Netflix called The Final Table. You know, I'm a cooker. I like to cook, lots of cooking. I'll watch a ton of cooking competitions and shows and this is a new one that has a different bent on the cooking competition. Everybody here, or almost everybody in this show is like a Michelin star chef. These guys are like, they're accomplished, they're big names in the industry, and so they go up -- they go as his teams, they go head to head, and team gets eliminated every week. And then finally at the end, one chef is crowned -- the new guy that gets to sit at the quote unquote Final Table, which is a table of nine other chefs that all judged the different meals. So nine different judges, they’re nine different shows, and nine different countries. And what was really nice about this one is even when people got eliminated, they were so just happy to be there, and they're like, I've been cooking with these amazing chefs and I got to meet some amazing other chefs and cook some good food. The cool thing about it is it's just like every meal looks amazing. I want to eat everything that was ever made on this show because it's like, “Wow! These guys are incredible.” But it's one of those shows when you're finished watching it, you just kind of have a good feeling and my roommate and I kind of powered through it this week because she got hit by a car this week.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:32] Yeah.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:47:32] Which really kind of screwed up the week.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:34] She's okay, I mean?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:47:35] Oh yeah, she's going to be okay. I mean, but she's beat up pretty heavily. She can't really move a lot. So I'm like, “Okay, let's just find something fun to watch to take your mind off of it.” And this totally fit the bill. So if you like cooking shows, check it out. It's one of the best ones I've seen. I really, really dug it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:51] Cooking shows or something I could never personally really get into, but I'm open to the idea. Okay, I realized they were one of the most popular things on TV for a reason. I think I'm the weirdo.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:00] Yeah, you're not a chef though, you don't like to cook. That’s what Jen’s for.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:02] That, yeah, she loves it. She loves it. So before people go, “What? He makes is what?” She loves it. I actually don't like it, so relax.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:10] Yeah. Jen and I share recipes all the time. It's fantastic. I at least have a chef in your family that I can commiserate.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:17] You do indeed. Yeah, and her dad cooks and her mom doesn't, so that's kind of funny.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:21] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:22] We’re going to go enjoy some of that right now and I hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. You can email us friday@jordanharbinger.com to get your questions answered here on the air. We always keep you anonymous. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com, and a quick shout out to Brad Block. He's a physician with a podcast for other physicians and he was interviewed by another physician podcaster. And during the interview they discovered that both of them were inspired by the Jordan Harbinger Show. So that's kind of cool.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:53] Very cool.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:54] Yeah, so he says, thanks for helping us continue to improve. We're passing that on to our profession. So who knows how many people will get better care because of you guys. So keep it up and thank you. Well thank you Brad Block for listening to the show and for spreading the love. If you want to know how we managed to book all these great folks and manage relationships well, we use systems, we use tiny habits. So check out our Six-Minute Networking Course, which is free over at jordanharbinger.com/course. If you've been procrastinating postponing this, remember you've got to dig the well before you're thirsty. Those relationships, you need them all the time and once you need them, you're too late to start them up. So the drills are designed to take a few minutes per day. It's the type of habit we ignore only at our own peril. This is the stuff I wish I knew a decade ago, so go grab all of that jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter @jordanharbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show. And Jason, where can they find you?

Jason DeFillippo: [00:49:44] They can find me at my newly redesigned personal website at jpd.me, and you can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks over at gog.show or your podcast player of choice.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:54] The show is co-produced with Jen Harbinger. Show notes are by Robert Fogarty. Keeps sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep them concise if you can. It really does increase the chances of your question you'll get answered on the air, and share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got a lot more in the pipeline. Very excited for some of these upcoming interviews and shows. And in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.