1049: Friend Was a Creeper But You’re Not His Keeper | Feedback Friday

1049: Friend Was a Creeper But You're Not His Keeper | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback. Friday producer, my dumpster firefighter in arms, Gabriel Mizrahi on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from money laundering experts, Russian spies, drug traffickers, astronauts, war correspondents, neuroscientists. This week we had Sean Atwood, this guy, man, he formed a humongous drug ring in the United States, came from England, forms a massive drug ring, goes to prison, the worst prison in America, actually at least one of 'em.

Run by Sheriff Joe Arpaio, this infamous law enforcement character in the state of Arizona. His stories were, yeah, blood curdling, I guess it's that not not safe for work episodes. Uh, definitely worth a listen and insight into something that well, hopefully you'll just never have to go through or even see.

We also had a skeptical Sunday, last Sunday on hydrotherapy, so anything having to do with water. On Fridays though, we share stories, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites occasionally anyway, and step into our role as the first responders of the feelings world. Before we dive in today, after my interview with Jona Mendez came out, a few of you wrote in answering my question about the thing.

So if you haven't heard that episode yet, check it out. Jona is fascinating. The whole conversation is basically the greatest hits of the Soviet era CIA. That was episode 1 0 2 7. But in the interview, Jona mentioned this beautiful hand carved wooden American eagle seal that was presented to the American Ambassador in Moscow by a bunch of Russian school kids in the 1950s.

So the ambassador, loved it, hung it in his office for 10 years or something. And long story short, it turns out it was some kind of audio bug and had been capturing conversations for 10 years. And when the CIA's audio folks opened it up, they saw it was just a little tiny tuning fork, just a long piece of metal.

No moving parts. For a long time, the CIA just called it the thing, and it is still called that in the International Spy Museum where you can go and see it. Uh, that is run by a friend of mine actually. So on the episode we were trying to figure out how that thing actually worked. She didn't know a bunch of you wrote in with answers.

So I just wanted to quickly nerd out on that and share it with you guys because like how can this thing be a sophisticated spy tool and God who knows what actually was disclosed. It's just crazy. So one of our listeners, Martin. He told us that the thing was invented by Leon Erman, this guy who invented a musical instrument that's also named after him.

And the control for that instrument is by moving your hands close to radio frequency antennas. And that changes the frequency of the radio waves, which in turn changes the note being played or the volume. And apparently the thing uses similar principles. Martin explained that the thing also has a radio antenna on it.

So the antenna receives radio waves from a Soviet transmitter next door. It's loaded by a capacitor, and basically I'm summarizing a ton of physics that largely go over my head. By the way, the antenna and the capacitor then form a resonant circuit that is tuned to the frequency of the radio waves from nextdoor.

So it very efficiently reflects back the radio waves of the correct frequency. So apparently the Soviets received the reflected signal and they could detect changes in amplitude that were caused by sound. From there, they could recover the speech of what was being said in the office. So basically someone talks, it vibrates this little tuning fork that then gets zapped with microwaves from the Soviets and turns into an AM radio kind of thing.

And they can just pick up those vibrations and then change them back into speech. And another listener, Steve, kind of explained that in in plain language just like I did. And he also noted that the power from that all comes from the transmission source outside the room. So the thing literally didn't need any batteries, nothing.

Finally, another listener for told us that a brilliant engineer named Michael Osman, he explained how it works in a DEFCON talk. Defcon is like a hacker conference. I've spoken there a few times. The thing is basically a passive microphone that gets blasted with electromagnetic energy, radio waves to power on the device.

So it, it's really amazing. Apparently gis during the war, the Second World War, they would create foxhole radios from components they had just around to listen to stations in the area, which is so fascinating and definitely scratched a, taking apart radios and trying to figure out how they work. Itch that I still have to this day when I was a kid, I used to do that all the time.

Thank you all for filling in some gaps here. Amazing how creative Spycraft can get, especially back then when things were still relatively low tech. Alright, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mail bag?

[00:04:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good day, Jordan and Gabe did I, I'm a 25-year-old male and recently while getting coffee with one of my close friends, a guy named Ben, we talked about one of our other friends, let's call him Rob, who's had a hard time.

I've been very close friends with Rob for years and we had always shared ambitions about our lives. Four years ago, Rob had a major spine operation to correct some back issues and many of us didn't think he was gonna make it. Luckily the surgery was a success. Rob was almost 30 at the time and he wanted to use the time after a surgery to upskill into a new field through an online course.

This six month online course ended up taking him three years. During those years, he struggled with depression going months on end with no contact, always telling us he was almost finished with his course. He ran out of support payments about 10 to 12 months after the surgery, then struggled to live off of government payments and relied more and more on some of us to support him financially.

Ben had lent him almost $10,000 by that point. Unfortunately, Rob had become slightly distant coming to fewer events because he couldn't afford to go out. Our friend group discussed with him that we couldn't always pay his way if we went for dinner, coffee or drinks. We offered to do more affordable activities and many of us offered to help him with trips to job interviews, which were far and few between.

I'm a personal trainer as a hobby, and I trained him for free to keep him from falling into another depression, hoping he would find his feet. Eventually Rob applied for a health related job after finally finishing his qualification as a pathologist.

[00:06:07] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Those are great gifts to a friend going through a tough time.

Sometimes money is what we need, but what I like about gifts like these is they're empowering him to take care of himself in a way that also feels fair and sustainable to you guys. And I, I love that.

[00:06:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's when Ben abruptly said that there was something serious we needed to talk about.

[00:06:25] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, here we go.

[00:06:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Barely holding back tears. He told me that Rob had been arrested. Ben couldn't pull it together enough to tell me why, and just said to look up his name. I did. And the headline of the article was something along the lines of MALE 30 arrested for possessing and distributing child abuse material and bestiality material after a three month extensive search by a police strike force.

So is it bestiality or bestiality? I always say bestiality. You say bestiality, you

[00:06:52] Jordan Harbinger: always say it. Whatever. You talk about this all the time. This come up

[00:06:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: a lot. I'd say once, twice a week at least. I mean, what do you mean bestiality? That's like,

[00:06:59] Jordan Harbinger: it's B-E-S-T-I-A-L-I-T-Y. Well, how do I know that? Anyway, hold up.

So what a thing to read about somebody that you're close with. God, that must've been brutal. Get out your hose, Gabe. I think we have a, uh. Five alarm dumpster fire on our hands. I mean, this is insane.

[00:07:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Why did that sound vaguely sexual way? Did And I You saw that.

[00:07:19] Jordan Harbinger: That's why I made a pause and I still went for it and I kind of regret it.

It just as soon as I came, as soon as I came out of my mouth. Yeah. The words, I mean, yeah. Not the, uh, I gotcha. Yeah. I'm gonna stop talking now. You, you know what I mean? This is very awkward. Continue, please.

[00:07:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I went numb. I bet Ben and I sat there for the next two hours reading the article, looking at the photos of Rob in total disbelief.

Over the next two days, I traveled to see the other two friends in our group to break the news as it was too hard for Ben. Since then, I can't stop thinking about all the time I had known Rob and how the person I thought I knew was probably living a big lie and deceiving me and all of his friends and loved ones.

We all had the same reaction. We knew Rob was a bit weird, but never thought he would engage in such gross acts. A few days on, I'm still processing, continuously checking in on my other friends and making sure we're all okay. We have so many questions like was he caught up in some shady stuff because he was vulnerable?

Had he been doing it for years? Was he participating in these acts? All of it makes me Ill, Ugh. What makes it more sickening for me is that I've been a preschool teacher for seven years, well before I met Rob, and I take pride in my work. I wonder if he only befriended me because of my job. I never invited him to my school and he never asked questions that would make me think there was anything nefarious going on.

But I worry this may have an impact on my job as I'm a male teacher and many of my other friends have jobs in the public sector. Being in such close proximity to a case like this may cause employers to get cold feet.

[00:08:47] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, I just wanna jump in and address this now. I totally get why learning all of this is throwing you for a loop, making you question every aspect of your relationship with him.

That is only normal. Based on what you've shared, I don't get the sense that Rob befriended you to somehow get access to the students you work with. You're not saying he visited your school a bunch. You're not saying he asked you weird questions about the kids. So I'm not sure that there's a connection here as for whether this would compromise your career.

I mean, maybe it's possible, but I just don't know how many people are gonna connect these dots, or if they did that, they'd automatically hold them against you. And if they did, you could tell a very compelling story about what a shock it was for you to learn that your friend had this whole secret life that you vehemently disapprove of, that shook you to your core.

You could literally say, it broke my heart to learn about all this. And sadly, Rob and I are no longer friends. So while I totally get this fear, I would not try to put too much stock in it.

[00:09:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed. So he goes on. I've also had discussions with my partner and friends about what happens if Rob is not found guilty and is released?

What if he tries to rekindle things with us all? My partner has made it clear and for good reason that if we were to have kids and he were to be free, he wouldn't be allowed near them. I agree with her. So do I. But I'm also second guessing everything I've ever known about this man and feel a mix of anger and sadness about the loss of what I thought was one of the best friends I ever had, and having the whole script turned upside down.

I don't think I could ever be friends with this person again, but I'm worried he may try to reach out if his case goes to trial. How do I go about unpacking all of this? How can I work through the guilt that maybe I wasn't there for him in a time of need where he fell into this dark place and how can I work through the idea that maybe he only befriended me because of my line of work?

Signed working through my dejection and this feeling of infection over my friend's weird predilection.

[00:10:31] Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. What a story. Well, first of all, I'm very sorry that Rob struggled with these impulses. I'm sorry. They probably made his life very painful and stressful, and they probably derailed his life and most important for you.

They left you with these very difficult feelings and questions. Like I said, it is super hard to integrate a piece of information like this about a close friend. You and your buddies are in the middle of a huge shift. You're all processing these intense feelings. You're all mourning the Rob. You knew the investments you guys made at him, the hopes you had for him turning his life around.

It's just very painful. I. So I already answered your last question. I'm just not sure. Rob befriended you for your line of work. Is it possible he did? Sure. Do you know that? No, but I'm not sure what good it'll do to obsess over that because you'll probably never know. And if he did, well be grateful. You never invited him to your school.

I guess

[00:11:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: I wonder if what he might actually be saying is if he did befriend me because of my job, what might that say about me?

[00:11:20] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I could see that. So what he's actually asking is how can I work through my feelings about my judgment or my vulnerability to this guy if he did in fact target our friend here?

[00:11:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. Or his shame about potentially being targeted in that way by anyone.

[00:11:34] Jordan Harbinger: So I get that, but my answer still stands. I'm not sure he was targeted. And if he was, he was targeted by somebody who was very good at compartmentalizing a very dark part of his personality. So again, totally fair to wonder how you might have missed something or been too trusting, but also you didn't have all the information and this guy was a lockbox.

My strong feeling is that your mind is running wild here and you're imagining worst case scenarios, that he only got close to you to find new victims and that you're now tainted by association. So I guess my advice there is I'd take a look at these anxieties, see if they're totally warranted. You might be catastrophizing a tiny bit and also making this about you when really this is entirely about Rob and his very sad predilection.

[00:12:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed completely. Now about your other question, how to work through the guilt that you were not there for Rob when he fell into this dark place. It's interesting. That is not what I'm hearing from your letter at all. What I'm hearing is that you and your friends were extremely generous with him the last few years between the surgery and this prolonged job hunt and the financial support.

I mean, even when you guys said to him, we can't afford to pay your way. Every time you still offered to do other activities together. You still offered him your time, your expertise. Your personal training, you gave him your energy, your accountability, your friendship, so he didn't slip back into depression.

And that whole time Rob was hiding this very disturbing compulsion from you. So I'm curious to know where this guilt comes from. Why do you feel so responsible to this person who had some very real demons and who you worry even possibly targeted you to continue feeding them somehow? Don't get me wrong.

I really appreciate your compassion for him, your grace, your devotion. They're wonderful, but why they tip over into guilt when you went above and beyond in supporting this guy and when his own choices, by the way, have landed him in this position, that's something for you to sit with. I'm not judging it.

I think you can tell. I don't think the guilt is entirely warranted, but that doesn't mean it doesn't say something interesting about you, what you feel you owe people, and also it sounds to me a sense of responsibility you feel for making sure that everyone turns out all right. Like you said, you trained Rob for free to keep him from falling into another depression, you hoped he would find his feet.

You are the one who went around breaking the news to all of your friends because Ben couldn't bring himself to do it. So you had those tough conversations. You were the grownup, and now you're wondering if you could have done more for Rob because you think it might have prevented him from becoming depressed and looking at CSAM and animal abuse content.

There is no evidence that it would have, there's no evidence that Rob wasn't consuming this stuff before you guys met. In fact, you seem to worry that he was, and even if you could have stopped him somehow, which again, you couldn't, that is not your job, my dude.

[00:14:08] Jordan Harbinger: That's exactly right. It's interesting. Once again, he's making it about himself.

Did Rob target me? Is he now gonna compromise my career? What more could I have done to help him? I'm sort of just seeing in this theme here,

[00:14:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: so I wonder if he's looking for things he can control on his side of the equation, whether it's being a harder target in the future, or doing damage control in his career, or fantasizing about how he could have saved Rob.

Because those things as stressful and unlikely as they are, might give him some measure of control. Whereas a huge part of his grief about Rob is confronting just how out of control he really is here.

[00:14:41] Jordan Harbinger: Bingo. Yeah, that makes total sense.

[00:14:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: So when you ask how to unpack all of this. That would be my answer.

Be in touch with all of it. Your sadness, your anger, your disgust, your regret, and your lack of control, and what that lack of control brings up for you. More anger and more fear, I would guess, and maybe a new awareness of how mysterious and frankly, unpredictable human beings can be, which can be terrifying.

There might be a part of you that gets especially activated by being out of control, specifically by being exposed to people in situations that are dark and chaotic. Your relationship with Rob is pushing up against that, and there's very little you can do about it except of course, to just surrender to that chaos and get a little bit friendlier with it.

I think that's probably the only way to find the piece you're looking for,

[00:15:28] Jordan Harbinger: and we're right back to where we started. He's mourning right and mourning is messy, and there's no rubric or system or timeline to it. It's just about getting in touch with all these different pieces, which I think he's already doing quite well.

And by the way, if you really allow yourself to do that work, and this is something I might consider doing with your friend group as well, you'll be in a much better position to know how to handle things with Rob if he ever reaches out Again, we can't tell you whether to cut him off or support him. I don't know what's in Rob's mind and heart right now, whether he's capable of changing what steps he might be taking to get better, whether he deserves more support in another chance.

Those are all things I would wanna know before deciding whether to stay connected to him. What I do know is that you can't make the best decision for yourself without grieving and taking stock of all of this. So that's your main job right now. Hang in there bud. We're sending you and your friends a big hug and we're wishing you all the best.

Gabe, I'm pretty proud of myself for not making all the jokes I was thinking about making during this particular letter. That sound you hear is everyone unsubscribing from this podcast? Everyone with taste unsubscribing from this podcast and I was just like, oh, I'm gonna hold my tongue.

[00:16:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: You got a good one for us on the ad break though,

[00:16:28] Jordan Harbinger: you know what you can legally exploit on the internet, the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help Ever Notice how kids are constantly learning and soaking up new things, but as adults, we kinda let that curiosity slip away. Like, when was the last time you picked up a new hobby or a new skill? If it's been recent, Bravo, but maybe you've always wanted to learn how to play pickleball, learn photography, which is kind of my new thing going on.

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It's really easy. It's a click and a half. Jen and I, even my parents have better help and it's been great.

[00:17:29] Jen Harbinger: Rediscover your curiosity with better help. Visit Better help.com/jordan today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. HEL p.com/jordan.

[00:17:38] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Ethos. One thing I always do to make sure my family's taken care of is planning for their future, whether it's saving for college, making sure there's a safety net in place.

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[00:18:42] Jen Harbinger: Add one more good thing to everything you do for your family. With ethos term life policies start as low as $10 a month. Get your free quote@ethoslife.com slash Jordan. That's EHOS life.com/jordan.

[00:18:55] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening and supporting the show.

Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support this show. Our all in one searchable, clickable place. Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to feedback Friday. Alright, next up.

[00:19:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I recently started an amazing new role as a director of nursing care for a long-term care home here in Canada.

I love this job. This is the first time that I truly feel supported to actually manage and lead staff making changes that the team recognizes are needed. In fact, I'm thanked for being willing to do it.

[00:19:32] Jordan Harbinger: Awesome. That's a great feeling to be empowered and appreciated. Well done.

[00:19:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: We're under a lot of government regulations, so it's vital that most interactions are completed in a regulated way.

The job also needs a high level of customer service. Since we're assisting people who are sick and or have memory challenges, physical challenges, and families with heightened emotions. I've been told that the previous people in my role didn't really address issues with performance. So the staff have become used to getting away with a lot and working at subpar performance.

The team knows that it'll be a tough slog to write the ship, but we're committed to doing it. I know that staff members will always need counseling and discipline around performance issues. This is just part of my role and it won't change, but right now I feel like all I'm doing is auditing, investigating and developing education and discipline for acts that I consider violations of common sense, basic job performance, and or basic adult responsibilities, just stupid stuff.

There are also so many petty complaints between staff members. I feel like I'm surrounded by a cloud of negativity despite being fully supported by the amazing management team. The other day, I had to handle three formal disciplines and several informal ones, all in response to different situations. I don't take it personally or internalize it, but it's tough when all that gets brought to me is people doing things incorrectly.

I want to be a supportive leader, not a punitive boss. How do I avoid being dragged down when faced with all of this, how does one find joy and positivity during these periods? Signed tired of being the sheriff and getting rid of errors when what I really want to take care of is beginning a new era.

[00:21:06] Jordan Harbinger: Really good question. First off, congrats on landing. What sounds like a rewarding role? With an awesome team, it's clear you're passionate about the work, and that's no small thing, especially in a pretty challenging field. You're already making waves by stepping up and leaning into these conflicts where other people in your role, I guess, avoided them.

So kudos to you. You're a leader. That said, I totally understand why cleaning up these messes is wearing you down. You wanna be forward thinking, proactive, high value, not the sheriff. So my first thought is you say you wanna be a supportive leader, and I'm curious to know what that means to you. 'cause right now, being supportive doesn't just mean being a cheerleader, it sounds like it also means helping your team develop the standards and the attitudes that they need to succeed.

And that might include some tough love holding people accountable, slapping people's wrists from time to time. It's not a glamorous part of leadership, but sometimes it's essential, especially in the beginning when what you're really doing is changing the culture. But if you wanna make these conversations more valuable than just, you know, digging into what Cynthia said to Mike when he stole her sandwich from the fridge or whatever, I would try to elevate these chats.

So, for example, let's say you gotta ding someone for I, I don't know, snapping at a colleague in front of a patient's family. You could go, Hey, that's not professional. That needs to stop. I gotta write you up for causing a scene in the workplace. Or you could go, Hey, the other day when things got tense in front of that patient's family, what was going on for you?

What led to that exchange? Then spend a few minutes trying to help the employee figure out why they behave that way and making them feel understood. Then you could say something like, so here's the thing, responding in that way. That's not how I want us to treat each other and show up around here. Not anymore.

I know the job is stressful. I know it can gr on you, but I'm gonna ask you to find other ways of dealing with the stress and definitely not to air that stuff in front of patients and their families. Picture it from their perspective. Imagine you come here to visit your mom and then two nurses start arguing in front of you.

You can imagine what impression that would leave you with. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable. It might make people wonder if their loved one is even in the right place, if they're surrounded by the best people. Part of my vision here is to create a workplace that is supportive, respectful, manage two regulation.

It's okay to have a rough day. It's not okay to take that out on a colleague, and definitely not in front of our patients. So next time that happens. I expect you to try things a different way, and I know will be great. That, look, that's an example. If you approach things like that, you're gonna be elevating these disciplinary chats or these quote unquote petty conversations into something much more meaningful and effective.

[00:23:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, it's a really good point because really they're not petty if a nurse is openly complaining about another employee or if a nurse is, I don't know, being sloppy with a patient's chart or whatever it is. Yeah. These small things represent big things. They represent values, standards, a whole way of working.

Your job as a leader is to constantly move between the small and the big, right? To find the meaning in the details, and apparently to inspire your staff to lead with those values too. So if you can do that, I have a feeling that over time you'll have to discipline your staff less and less, because hopefully they will start leading themselves.

And that is actually the best version of leadership.

[00:24:02] Jordan Harbinger: And by the way, this is also how you're gonna get to that part of the job. That does bring you joy faster, which I assume is creating a high functioning workplace, freeing up your time to focus on the fulfilling stuff, focusing on patience, stuff like that.

But I also don't know if you need to wait to start doing those parts of the job you love. You might also need to get a little more disciplined about your time. Make sure you're not getting lost in the weeds of the disciplinary stuff. Maybe block out an hour or two every morning or every evening to do strategic stuff to think about the future.

Maybe you limit your sheriff time to a couple hours a day and you just get to the heart of the matter really quickly. Maybe you delegate some of that stuff more. I don't know.

[00:24:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, I know she's saying that the sheriff stuff is draining and she really wants to get to the joyful leadership stuff, but I also wonder if maybe the sheriff stuff is on some level tempting for her.

Maybe she shines there even if she really resents having to do it. It might be easier to wrap her head around and the strategic, you know, leadership forward thinking stuff is more daunting. So on some level is she may be gravitating to the more rote, procedural disciplinary stuff because she has some resistance around the higher value stuff.

Just something to consider.

[00:25:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I could see that. It's like when you spend three hours doing your expenses, even though you're not filing taxes for the next six months, instead of finishing the big deck that you need to hand in tomorrow. Voice of experience over here, which again, being disciplined, being thoughtful, leaning into the resistance, those are big parts of being a leader to how and where you spend your time is just, it's everything.

As we're not getting bugged down by this stuff, not internalizing the negativity. That's where your internal boundaries are gonna be. Super important. There's always gonna be negative stuff to deal with at work. Part of your job is not letting it infect you too much. So now it's okay to take a step back when you need to delegate wherever possible, go home and leave things at work.

But most importantly, keep your eye on the bigger picture here and remember that every step, no matter how small is progress towards your vision. There are two sides of the same coin. Keep up the great work. Sounds like you're crushing it. I know that you're gonna make a real impact on this place. Oh, by the way, I have a book recommendation for you.

The book is called, it's Your Ship by Captain Michael Abha. And he was amazing. That's episode 2 31. It's a management book, but it's about, and I'm going off memory here, but it's about he got onto this boat that was managed by just this egotistical, horrible guy and the, the place was totally dysfunctional in the Navy.

It was just a total crappy situation. And this guy goes in there and radically changes the management style to the point where I think they were voted like, or they won, you know, top ship whatever it is in the Navy, like two years in a row. And they used to be the worst. So it was just a massive 180. And it sounds like that's kind of what you're doing in your organization.

So definitely check out episode 2 31 and then maybe that book, grab that book afterwards. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your bosses don't wanna listen to your killer ideas, or you wanna know how to best support your friend who snapped and murdered his boss years ago, whatever's got you staying up at night lately.

Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, by the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, wee bit wiser. It is a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered right to your inbox every week. If you wanna keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out.

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[00:27:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, my wife and I have been married for just over a year and a half now, and while we have a healthy relationship, our relations with her side of the family have proven to be rather difficult. Dalia, the second oldest sister, left their home with her then boyfriend before I was in the picture.

It was dramatic and there were possible violent threats by the boyfriend towards her family. Dalia has since married him, despite the fact that he got kicked outta the military, has lost multiple jobs and seems to be freeloading off of her. We also think there might be some emotional or physical abuse going on, but we have trouble finding proof because Dalia tries her best to hide things involving her husband.

I can't help but think that sometimes I'm enabling her and her husband when they find themselves in a spot of trouble. Emily, the second youngest sister, married her high school sweetheart after they graduated. Things were going well until about two years ago when my wife's youngest sister Abby, I. Told her mom that Emily's husband had sexually assaulted her when she was 18.

[00:28:19] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Oh my God. Just when I thought the dumpster fires were out. I mean, this is feedback Friday.

[00:28:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Better get that hose out, Papa.

[00:28:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Now I hear that does sound creepy. Yeah, that does sound heard too. My bad. Heard too. Now we're both,

[00:28:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: now we're both in trouble. Mm-Hmm. Emily's husband admitted to my father-in-Law.

What he had done when it all came out, but then quickly walked everything back, and to this day, denies it ever happened. Oh my God. Abby's trauma has made it difficult for her to talk about the incident, and she refuses to seek therapy because it's quote unquote, too hard to relive.

[00:28:51] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh, that is so sad.

[00:28:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Now we're lucky if Emily's husband even talks to us and everyone's relationship with both him and Emily has grown distant.

[00:28:59] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, call me crazy, but not being super close with the rapist in the family or the sexual predator, whatever the details were. I mean, not a huge loss in my opinion. Losing Emily as a result. I mean, yeah, that's definitely sad.

[00:29:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Two sisters here are pulling away from the family largely to protect their husbands.

Just an interesting theme,

[00:29:16] Jordan Harbinger: pulling away or maybe being pulled away. Hard to say.

[00:29:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Who knows what's happening behind the scenes, so the letter goes on. To make matters worse, Emily and her husband are the only ones in the family with kids, so lots of the family are missing the early years of our nephew's lives, and that hurts us the most.

All of this has made it challenging for me to come into the family since both guys set a low standard for men in the family. When my wife and I started dating, I feel like I started in the negative with my in-laws. Now that we're married, that sentiment has worn off to a certain extent. I've been able to show that I'm different from the other two guys, but some persists.

[00:29:51] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I mean, why these parents are going, let's see what shenanigans this guy pulls, as opposed to, Hmm. I wonder why we raised two daughters who chose abusive men. It's a little hard for me to wrap my head around, but I, I hear you. The deck is stacked against you.

[00:30:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: I grew up in a family where strong bonds between family members were important, and it feels like I'm walking in a minefield or playing politics.

How do we wade through all the drama? Is there a way for us to help in mending relationships in the family? Or is it better to just keep our distance until we're required to participate? Signed asking for a chance when my in-laws look a scance and trying to tap dance around this unfortunate circumstance that developed far in advance.

[00:30:30] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, what a family to walk into. This is super intense stuff and very, very sad. Obviously, my heart goes out to Abby the most here to be sexually assaulted by your own brother-in-Law. That is just awful, awful. The fact that this dude admitted to it then walked it back and now denies it ever happened.

Look, we don't have all the facts, but that sounds dodgy as hell. It sounds like he did it and then just didn't wanna deal with the fallout. So this has obviously left Emily very shaken. She can't even talk about it. It's caused a lot of tension in this family. I mean, that's, that's awful. I'm also worried about Dalia, of course, the fact that she might be experiencing abuse and that she's working so hard to hide things, which is pretty textbook.

It just, oh, it just makes me super sad. It really

[00:31:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: makes me wonder what happened

[00:31:11] Jordan Harbinger: to Dalia growing up. Well, exactly. Why did she choose this guy? Why is she staying with him? What kind of childhood did she have? Because look, let me put it this way, if I smacked Jen across the face, she would leave me immediately because that's just not part of the pattern.

But I feel like if you grow up with it, you start making excuses for it and stuff. So something happened here, and that's kind of why I'm angry with these in-laws for narrowing their eyes at our friend here. It's like you raised these women, they chose these husbands. Why are you making the one normal loving dude in the family feel unwelcome?

[00:31:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, you should be celebrating this guy if he's so different.

[00:31:41] Jordan Harbinger: Truly. But they probably don't want to ask themselves that question. So they're projecting.

[00:31:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, they might be projecting. Or they might just be assuming that he is gonna be like every other guy who's walked through their front door, sat at the table with them

[00:31:52] Jordan Harbinger: Anyway.

I know that you wanna do the right thing for your wife and her family. It's clear. You care deeply about these sisters. That's really sweet. You're also dealing with abuse, assault, strained relationships, trauma, a lot of unspoken stuff that frankly has nothing to do with you. So look, all of this is really complicated, but my take on your questions is pretty simple.

I think you need to take a step back, realize how much of this has nothing to do with you, and accept the limit of your influence here. You love your wife. I'm sure you love her family too, but you can't change the facts. You can't make Dahlia's husband not an abusive deadbeat. You can't change what Emily's husband almost certainly did to Abby.

You can't make Emily stand up to him and confront him. You can't make your wife's parents see you differently, not overnight anyway. Now you and your wife can be supportive. You can offer your help where appropriate, for sure. But if things are gonna change both for these sisters individually and for the family as a whole, they're gonna need to confront some difficult things themselves.

If Dalia comes to you guys for help, you can offer advice, resources, a plan to leave her marriage safely. If Abby talks to you about the assault or how she's feeling, you can make it safe for her to talk to a therapist, to seek out a support group to take care of herself however she needs. If Emily's like, I don't know what to do about Mike, I'm so sorry.

I miss you. Yes, obviously you welcome her back in. You help her work through what her husband did, decide whether she wants to stay with them, but they have to wanna do those things also. These are your wife's sisters. She has more of a connection with them. The best thing you can do is keep showing up as a loving, caring, steady brother-in-law.

I think your in-laws will continue to see that you're very different from these guys. You don't need to work too hard to convince them of that. Sure, be thoughtful. Make an effort to connect with your wife's parents. Take her mom to lunch every once in a while, FaceTime with her dad, whatever it is. But I wouldn't launch a whole PR campaign.

In fact, I'd kind of do the opposite. Just be yourself. Focus on your wife. Trust that their opinion will evolve as they see you doing your thing.

[00:33:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: It might also be worth asking yourself whether you need them to see you a certain way.

[00:33:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, fair point. Obviously it would be wonderful if they didn't assume the worst about this guy.

Sure. It's awesome to get on with your in-laws, but like, I dunno, does he need their approval?

[00:33:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: And if he does, why is there something about these parents, these potentially quite flawed parents not giving him that approval that activates something in him if he doesn't make any progress with them? I think he either needs to release the expectation that they're gonna be big fans of his and or he needs to figure out why their skepticism is so distressing to him.

[00:34:07] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. Look, he's already doing the most important thing, which is being a solid, thoughtful guy. If they can't see that, if they wanna assume he's gonna be as bad as Dahs abusive husband or Emily's predator partner, that's on them. So basically, I don't know if you need to wade through all the drama as much as stay out of it.

And yes, it would be amazing if you could help mend the relationships in this family, but that sounds like a Dalia Emily Abbey kind of job and also a dahlia's husband hitting the road or getting thrown in jail kind of job. If this were me, I'd just keep my distance until you're required to participate or until you have enough trust and rapport built up with these people to insert yourself a little more.

But honestly, the person I would focus on the most is Abby. She's the true victim here. I'm so sad and angry for her. I know it's awkward and hurtful, but man, this is a family that clearly does not know how to deal with some very dark stuff, and that's tragic, but it's their tragedy. You and your wife can build your own world and that is the most important thing sending you, your wife and her sisters a huge hug.

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[00:37:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe.

Five years ago, while working at a hospital as a resident, I met someone at work. We got together. She initiated everything, and I went along with it because she was beautiful, smart, witty, and feisty. She also had a child who was three at the time, and I absolutely loved her too. Then our religious differences became an issue.

I'm Jewish and was more observant, and she was Catholic. Things like me keeping kosher and the Sabbath got in the way. Even though I told her about them early on. The one thing I didn't tell her upfront because I didn't know how to bring it up, was that I was a virgin and trying to save myself for marriage.

Eventually these differences came to a head and she broke up with me. It was awful. We spent two years apart during which time I got a new job, not because of the situation with her. During our hiatus, she'd initiate mostly platonic conversations and I made it very clear that I still had feelings for her.

She told me she had moved on and I found out she was dating somebody pretty much as soon as we broke up. They dated for two years and then he started ignoring her out of the blue. She confided in me and then we started talking more regularly. Eventually, I came back to my former place of employment.

Fast forward several months and we started going out again. Things are a lot better between us, mostly because I've compromised on a lot of my practices and my religion. I do not like the way that makes me feel, but I also want her in my life. Sometimes affection is a little bit difficult to get from her, and I told her that I don't like that.

Then for a couple of weeks I felt that something was off. I did something I probably shouldn't have, and I saw on her phone that she was texting her ex, although she did tell him that she was seeing someone, he was essentially begging her to talk things out and she said, maybe, but I can't hurt the guy I'm with now the way you hurt me.

She also sometimes says, I miss you to him, and once told him I'll never like him like I loved you.

[00:39:44] Jordan Harbinger: That's painful data, but important data. Ah, that hurts, man.

[00:39:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't want to be a control freak, but what am I supposed to do with all this information? Can I confront her about it or should I just pretend nothing's wrong?

Signed, ignore what I've seen to keep things clean or act on what I've gleaned from my girlfriend's screen.

[00:40:02] Jordan Harbinger: Dude, my stomach literally hurts hearing this secondhand. Yeah, I can only imagine how you felt reading that. What a gut punch. I don't even know you. And I'm having a physical reaction in the pit of my stomach to this.

Oh my God, I'm so sorry. So you and this woman have been on a very interesting journey here. Something is clearly drawing you to each other and some things are also obstacles to staying connected. So it's interesting, I'm getting a mixed picture here. On one hand, she's secretly texting her ex, she's saying, I miss you.

She's saying I'll never like him. Like, I loved you. This is worrisome. It's, uh, it doesn't bode well for you guys. On the other hand, she's not immediately running back to him. She's saying she won't hurt you the way he hurt her, so she's not being completely disrespectful or callous towards you. And there might be a world where you guys work through this stuff.

So I hear you that you don't wanna be controlling, but I think this is crucial information to confront except and then decide what to do with you no longer have the luxury, so to speak, of ignoring your intuition. You can't bury your head in the sand anymore. You can't tell a story about how the relationship is going.

Well, what I'm hearing is a woman who is torn between two people who has some conflicts around her relationship, who knows maybe around intimacy in general, as many of us do. And also a woman who might not have the courage or clarity to say to this guy, Hey, I'm sorry I'm with someone right now. I can't engage with you.

Or to turn and say to you, I'm sorry, but I'm not clear about what I want, so I'm not sure we should stay together. So my questions for you are, what kind of relationship do you want to be in? How do you wanna feel in your relationship? How do you want the other person to treat you? How do you want to talk through difficult feelings like this?

How would you want your partner to place other men in her life? I think you already know the answers deep down, but you probably need to sit with them on your own and get really clear with yourself. If you answer those honestly, I promise you'll know what to do.

[00:41:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Completely agree. Jordan, I'm hearing all of that in this letter too.

I'm also hearing a theme of hiding parts of himself.

[00:41:57] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-Hmm.

[00:41:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: And often ignoring his needs and his values to keep this relationship afloat.

[00:42:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, for sure. That's part of the problem.

[00:42:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: On their first go around, he said that there was a big thing he didn't tell her because he didn't know how to bring it up, that he was saving himself for marriage.

Right, right.

[00:42:11] Jordan Harbinger: Pretty huge thing to hide from your partner.

[00:42:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: And of course those differences and other ones came to a head and she broke up with him. And I can understand why they might be incompatible in certain key ways. His hiding certain things to spare himself some discomfort, and also to avoid driving her away.

That obviously made it harder to bridge that gap.

[00:42:30] Jordan Harbinger: Right? It might be more the way they communicate or don't communicate, as opposed to the differences between them

[00:42:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: always. I mean, it certainly doesn't help. Then he said that things are a lot better between them this second time around, mostly because he's compromised on a lot of practices in his religion, right?

Mm-Hmm. Which he's free to change his views if that's what he wants. But the interesting thing about that line was, as he put it, I do not like the way that makes me feel, but I also want her in my life.

[00:42:56] Jordan Harbinger: Right? He's not going, my values or beliefs have evolved, so there's less friction between us. Or I've opened up and she's opened up and we've met halfway.

So things are easier Now. He's going, I've let go of something that was very important to me, and it does not make me feel good, but I'm doing it so that I don't lose her.

[00:43:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. I mean, he's really contorting himself to stay connected to her. Yes. But in the process, he's losing himself. That is the real problem here.

[00:43:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's right. And so the question then becomes, why are you losing yourself in order to hang onto this person?

[00:43:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: And what would it look like for you to be involved with this person while still staying connected to the aspects of you that are so important?

[00:43:31] Jordan Harbinger: Well, I'd imagine that's scary to him, right?

Mm-Hmm. Because he knows that she might not like that or it, it might put additional strain on their already fragile relationship. So he's walking on eggshells. This guy,

[00:43:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: she might not like it. Okay. Mm-Hmm. Then she's not for you, or you guys have to work through that. But he also doesn't know that she wouldn't like that because he hasn't really tried.

[00:43:51] Jordan Harbinger: Well, except that he kind of does, because that was part of what caused friction between them the first time around. Right.

[00:43:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, okay, good point. So maybe he's just willfully ignoring a real problem between them and hoping he can compromise to make it go away. Yes, but I have a feeling that he's compromised on a lot of things just as a matter of being in a relationship.

He's hid parts of himself from the beginning, so he doesn't truly know how she would react to him saying, look, this is who I am. I believe in these things. These other things matter to me, and I like you. I care about you.

[00:44:23] Jordan Harbinger: Good point. That also makes me realize how stressful this relationship must be for him, man.

Yeah. Because he's molded himself into a person he thinks she can live with,

[00:44:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: right?

[00:44:32] Jordan Harbinger: So I imagine he feels pretty misunderstood and inauthentic and anxious a lot of the time. Mm-Hmm. Because now he needs to keep being that guy or he risks losing whatever connection they do have. And he knows that that connection's already on thin ice because he saw her texts.

[00:44:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: And that's the price you pay for cutting off parts of yourself to please another person to preserve a connection that might not be right, but what's the quality of that connection if you're not being yourself? So he might be correctly intuiting her wants, or he might be assuming the worst when he imagines being himself.

But either way, it's not working because here she is texting her ex and saying she misses him. So it's up to you to decide whether to confront her or to not share that information that you saw on the phone and just try to address the underlying issues in your relationship. I think there are some good reasons to do both, but the most important thing for you, in my view, is to, first of all, really consider whether you and this woman are truly compatible in the ways that matter, which is different from desiring her, appreciating her, having fun with her, all of that stuff.

And second, show up to this conversation about your relationship very honestly, and bring as much of yourself to it as possible, which means sharing your feelings right now, your beliefs, your questions about the relationship, all of it that might be quite scary and exposing. This is gonna be new for you, but it'll also be very enlivening.

And I'm just, I'm can tell you right now, it's gonna be a massive relief. Even if this conversation is very tough, even if it ultimately means that you guys break up, it'll be because you're saying, Hey, this is who I am. This is how I truly feel. Who are you? What matters to you? How do you truly feel? You can't make the right decision about whether to stay together until you do that.

[00:46:11] Jordan Harbinger: Completely agree, Gabe. The answer is definitely not to pretend nothing's wrong and just keep chugging along, although the fact that that's an option for you, I feel like that's part of the problem. That's one more way that you're compromising, which is now compromising you. This kind of honesty is gonna have to be a practice for you, and this conversation might be the first big step toward a whole new way of meeting people in your life.

Look, it's very possible that you two should not be in a romantic relationship because you're just two different culturally, or because your feelings don't align. It's also possible you could both grow and start relating to each other in a way, a way that allows you to be your true selves, that makes room for your conflicts and differences, and see how that relationship evolves.

But I'm gonna be honest, my gut is telling me you shouldn't be together. Not right now anyway, I think you need to take some space and come back to yourself and look at these parts of you that you tend to hide or cut off for the benefit of other people. I think your girlfriend needs to sort out her feelings about you and this other guy and make sure she's in the right relationship, both for her own sake and for her daughter's sake.

So go have this chat, my friend. This is all coming to a head for a good reason and good luck.

[00:47:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: All right, my recommendation of the week this week is a show called Love on the Spectrum. Love on the Spectrum is a docuseries on Netflix that follows a handful of people every season on the autism spectrum as they search for love.

Uh, it's not a new show. It's been on the air for several years now. I still think about it to this day. This show is so eye-opening and heartwarming and educational and sometimes insanely funny. But what I love about it is that it's never at the expense of the people involved or in a way that feels, you know, cruel or exploitative, which I gotta imagine is so hard to do with reality tv.

Yeah. There have been four seasons of the show. They did two seasons in Australia, which I loved, and then they did two seasons in the us. I'm obsessed with the show. Every person I've told about it also falls in love with it

[00:48:00] Jordan Harbinger: except for me. 'cause I've never been able to watch a single episode. 'cause I have kids, but everyone else,

[00:48:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: everyone else get to it.

Kian O'Leary, the director and his whole team really, they did something very special with the show. They chose subjects who are so interesting and lovely and funny, and they followed them during a process that is sometimes incredibly awkward and so vulnerable. They captured what it's like to search for love when navigating other people can be very challenging, and that's actually what I love the most about the show.

It speaks to this raw, awkward part of all of us, whether we're on the spectrum or not. So if you're looking for a really sweet, interesting, highly entertaining show to watch, check it out. Love on the spectrum on Netflix. I would start with the Australian seasons and then work your way to the US ones.

You're gonna love it.

[00:48:47] Jordan Harbinger: Solid. Gabe. Also, in case y'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners and us about specific episodes or just general show chatter, if there was an episode you liked, an episode you didn't like, you wanna share additional thoughts, learn more from other people in our show, fam, check it out.

There's actually some really nice conversations in there. Gabriel and I take part, but there's a lot of cool supportive stuff in there. People are sharing really interesting things. You can find that at reddit.com/r/jordan harbinger. Love to see you there. All right, what's next?

[00:49:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. Seven years ago, I joined a startup as the first employee.

I became CEO and a shareholder because I love the work. It was tough, but we kept pushing forward. No vacations, low or non-existent salaries, long hours, and the sacrifice of many friendships, and the person I loved. I wasn't the easiest person to live with. My bedroom turned into my office, so falling asleep next to the three glowing screens while listening to the sound of frantic typing wasn't exactly ideal for anyone's wellbeing.

[00:49:47] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, the manic startup hustle is real. It sounds like you were really lit up by this company. You threw yourself into it, which is beautiful. But yeah, it could do a real number on your relationships, man. I'm sorry that things didn't work out with your partner. It sounds like you broke up. Sometimes you just can't have it all when you're determined to achieve something.

[00:50:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: But I had a vision to build a company where by the time I turn 30, I could take it easy. Working eight hours a day with people I care about on a project I love for clients who appreciate us. Each year, the numbers improved, and eventually I was able to guarantee five salaries, including my own, every bit of profit went back into improving the product and raising employee salaries.

We weren't a unicorn, but I was happy.

[00:50:28] Jordan Harbinger: Well, well done, man. I mean, you sound like a solid leader, also a solid human being.

[00:50:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, he sounds great.

[00:50:33] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-Hmm.

[00:50:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Everything was going according to plan until one day the shareholders decided to replace me as CEO. With the son of one of their friends and asked me to continue working for them.

[00:50:44] Jordan Harbinger: That's brutal. Ouch.

[00:50:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: I didn't have much choice, so I accepted the salary was the same with less work, so I didn't have the right to complain.

[00:50:53] Jordan Harbinger: Well, you definitely had the right to complain, but I, you know, I appreciate your mindset here,

[00:50:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: but as I watched the company shift its focus from our clients and employees to the happiness of the shareholders, treating people like replaceable assets, I just couldn't stay.

[00:51:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:51:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: I decided to resign before I hit burnout, see a therapist and start a new company. All while keeping in mind that this might be a blessing in disguise. Thank you both, by the way. Your advice has helped me a lot.

[00:51:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, dude, again, you're killing it on so many levels. Rolling with punches like this, and this is one of the most brutal punches I think you could take.

It takes a lot of maturity, a lot of resourcefulness, a lot of flexibility and openness, and I really admire those qualities. And he started another business. He's not like sleeping on his friend's couch and licking his wounds. I mean, totally. He just immediately got back on the horse. Good move.

[00:51:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, he's pretty remarkable.

[00:51:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:51:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: By the way, I'm touched that we could play a role in all that. That's awesome. But you're the one who ran with all of these ideas, so well done amigo. So he goes on. But here's the thing. My former company still owes me 100,000 Swiss Francs, which is about 115,000 US dollars. They said they'd pay, but my last conversation with the new shareholder ended with them saying, I have no interest in paying you back and blaming me for the company's lack of funds.

I know this isn't true. I know the numbers. And since I left, they've cut development to maximize profit so they could afford their Teslas.

[00:52:11] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Well, frustrating to say the least, and also almost certainly illegal.

[00:52:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: I could see a lawyer, but I'm not sure I have the strength to go through with it and it might hurt my former employees.

[00:52:24] Jordan Harbinger: Whoa. Okay. I'm sorry to keep jumping in here, but you do have the strength to go through with it. You should go through with it. And it's not your fault if it hurts your former employees, which by I, I don't believe that it will anyway. This, the new management is screwing you and they're probably also screwing your former employees or your former colleagues too.

And if you get that money, it's not, you're not taking that money away from your former colleagues. Management was gonna take it and buy a Model S with it anyway.

[00:52:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Come on man. I found a job that offers a good salary, but I'm concerned that accepting it would leave me with little time for my new company.

On top of everything. I haven't taken a vacation or many weekends off in years. I. I haven't felt the need for it since. I used to love my work quite passionately, but everyone keeps urging me to enjoy my 30th still. I worry that taking a break now could negatively impact my career, given how rapidly the tech sphere evolves.

[00:53:16] Jordan Harbinger: Okay? My dude, uh, takes one to no one. You're a workaholic. It's really inspiring in a certain way, and it's absolutely pathological in another way. Mm-Hmm. And I can say that because I am wired. Similarly, bro, we'll come back to this. You're a rockstar, but man, is it time to give yourself a little space? 30 years old, man, you gotta live your life.

I carry on Gabe.

[00:53:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: So here I am feeling a bit lost. What would you do in my shoes? How do I navigate this transition? Signed finding my way and hunting for a payday. When I'm straight up afraid of going on holiday.

[00:53:48] Jordan Harbinger: Well, as with most letters, we get on feedback Friday. I'm very sorry this happened to you. I'm also not sorry this happened to you.

Whatever led to you being pushed outta this company and then resigning. In some sense, it had to happen either because this wasn't your organization to lead or because leading it in this way was preventing you from living your life fully, starting a company of your own, going to therapy, enjoying life a little bit.

What I'm hearing is that you're going through a sort of mini crisis, a very healthy crisis. It's coinciding with your 30th birthday, which also makes sense, and this might sound weird, but I'm actually pretty excited for you. My strong feeling is that this isn't just an opportunity to consider your next venture or your next career move or your next investor, but to really take a step back and con, actually consider yourself.

You've been in one mode for a long time, man. Work, work, work, build, build, build. I love it. Again, I admire it. You have real passion and grit and dedication to your goals, and underlying those goals are certain values. The peak experience of life for you right now is building that you need to be useful, productive, effective.

That work is more important than relationships. I was the same way for such a long time. I still am to a certain degree, but I've learned how to find more balance in my life, and I no longer believe that work takes precedence over literally everything else. Although Jen and the kids might disagree when I'm in the studio with Gabe on a Sunday or on the phone with my attorney at seven freaking PM on a Friday.

So I'm not judging you for those values, and I'm not necessarily telling you to give them up. They are going to take you very far. Case in point, um, not to pat myself in the back too much, but it, you know, it's effective part of your job as an entrepreneur. Hell, even as an employee for someone else. And definitely as a human being, part of your job is to just experience the world, feel joy, feel inspiration, feel freedom, and to be in touch with the parts of you that are not just, you know, productive.

You gotta refill the well man. And you gotta remember that life is so much bigger than your company or your employer or some dipshit investor in their Tesla. To say nothing of how crucial it is to rest from time to time so you can really give your best to your new venture or your new job and all the people around you because this kind of burnout can w wreck havoc on your body and your mind.

It could really cause some problems for you later down the line. Now I hear you that you're feeling that taking a break right now could hurt your career given how rapidly the tech world moves. But I also have a feeling that that's the workaholism talking for sure the tech industry. It's not gonna pass you by.

If you go to Amsterdam for two weeks, man, you could do a three month trip. You could probably even do a six month trip and be totally fine, especially if you stay on top of industry reports and news and all that stuff. But the fear that you'll somehow be left behind if you take a break. That's what's most interesting to me here.

You know, you're not taking three years off to raise your kids a little bit or something like that. This is totally different. It sounds to me like there's a voice in your head going, don't take your foot off the gas for one second, or it's all over. I have to think that that fear is part of what drives you, but it's just, it's not true.

[00:56:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: And actually exploring the world. Experiencing the world as a visitor and as a consumer, and not just as a builder, that's only gonna make you a better entrepreneur, a better leader, because you have to understand how the products you build, or the companies you lead, how they interact with the world, how they touch people.

You also have to go out into the world to have new ideas, to encounter new influences, to get out of your little bubble and look up from your screen and you know, like be part of things sometimes.

[00:57:01] Jordan Harbinger: Plus, you gotta have fun. You just have to, man. It's part of your design.

[00:57:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: So I'm with Jordan. While you plot your next couple moves, make some room for yourself, man, as a human being.

Enjoy your 30th birthday. My God. Ah,

[00:57:12] Jordan Harbinger: I wish I was 30.

[00:57:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Take advantage of this natural break between two chapters. Yes, seriously, try something new. Look, it's totally possible that you derive most of your meaning and joy from work, and that's fantastic, but it'll mean even more to you if you also allow yourself to have some experiences outside of that work as well.

I'm obviously thrilled to hear that you began therapy. I think this would also be a great topic to bring into your sessions. I would actually be very curious to know how your therapist is helping you explore all of this stuff, and in a way giving yourself more time to breathe and maybe travel and live your life.

That is also part of your therapy right now.

[00:57:47] Jordan Harbinger: You know, I'm just remembering how much of this story seems to revolve around him turning 30 mm-Hmm. Like you said, his goal was to build a company where he could take it easy by 30, and now Thirty's looming. He's been pushed out of his company, made to resign.

He didn't achieve this very ambitious outcome of his, and that's probably left him with some difficult stuff. Right. He might be disappointed, frustrated, maybe even kind of ashamed for not being able to make this happen. That might also be part of the reason he's going, I can't possibly take a few days off.

The whole world's gonna pass me by, but if I can, and Gabe, if I can just drop some personal experience here, I also was hell bent on being, you know, make a million dollars by 30. I was hell bent on that. I. I actually achieved that goal. If you allow a little bit for flexible math, like this payment's coming in later and this is already closed, but da, da da.

But you know what? It didn't make any difference. I remember I called my parents and told them and they're like, oh, we're so proud of you, honey. And then I like went out for drinks with friends and then I was like, alright, now I need to be retired by 40, right? I'm 44 now. Spoiler alert didn't happen, but it doesn't matter 'cause I love my work, right?

I wouldn't retire right now even if I had a hundred million dollars in the bank because I love what I'm doing. So I feel like he didn't hit this arbitrary goal and he's beating himself up over it. But I'm telling you, if you had hit that goal, you would just make another goal. That's how you and I are wired.

Dude, I don't know you personally, but I can tell.

[00:59:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fascinating. So yeah, this might be an opportunity for him to put down certain ideas and certain arbitrary milestones like getting to this point by 30 years old, he might be mourning the loss of the idea of himself as a guy who achieved that thing and the loss of the life that he hoped to have by now.

That doesn't mean that it was a bad goal. Like you Jordan, I really admire his ambition. But when those goals create concepts that we clinging to very rigidly and then punish ourselves for not living up to, especially when they might not have been attainable in the first place with this company he was involved in.

That's when they can become very painful. So I think you make a really good point that is in the mix here too. Some grief over his values, his old identity, making peace with all these feelings that this moment in his life is bringing up, which he might be trying to bypass by throwing himself back into work again.

[00:59:52] Jordan Harbinger: Mm, man, that's so true. And again, I totally relate. But yeah, he's evolving. He has to clear the decks to make room for a new version of himself, which again, that's wonderful. So I hope you get to do that, man. You deserve that. And frankly, you need that. I'm sorry, things went sideways. But now you're here and you get to decide what this transition means to you, what opportunities it serves up.

And I know in time you're gonna look back at this chapter and go, man, that was hard, but I'm so glad I got to hit the reset button and reconsider who I really am and what really matters to me. Trust me, that's gonna make sitting in front of your three screens in bed, two in the morning, if that's where you need to be anyway, a lot more fulfilling.

Hope y'all enjoyed the episode today. I wanna thank everybody who wrote in. Thank you so much for listening as well. Go back and check out Sean Atwood. Uh, as long as there's no kids in the car and our skeptical Sunday on hydrotherapy, if you haven't done that yet. Hey, the best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network.

The circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course. Some of you are retired, you think you don't need it. Some of you have networking on lock. You think you don't need it. I, I teach this stuff all over the world. I've taught it to some of the top law enforcement and spy agencies.

If they can get value out of it, I'm positive. You can get value out of it. It's not gross or schmoozy or basic. You can find it on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. The drills take a few minutes a day. You gotta dig that well before you get thirsty, folks, build those relationships before you need them.

Hammer your sanity down a little bit. Once again, all free@sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. Also connect with me on LinkedIn. If you so desire, you can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Rahi.

This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we've rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You are about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show with the world's best counterfeiter.

How long does it take to print $250 million?

[01:02:13] Clip: Five months. It needs to be worthwhile. It's gonna need to be perfect 'cause perfect go big one day for no particular reason. I was driving and thinking and I stopped at a red light. It just hit me out of nowhere and I'm chasing something to make money from, sell something, make something, do something.

All we do is to translate that into money while we wake up in the morning and do that.

[01:02:40] Jordan Harbinger: I need to do something for money. Well, why don't I just literally make money? $1 million in $20 bills is about 50 kilos. So $250 million is 12,500 kilos or over eight Toyota Camrys, or six Ford F1 fifties. That is multiple metrics.

Tons of cash. You must have been fucking stoked, man. 'cause you knew you were gonna put $20 bills all over all of that and then just never work again.

[01:03:15] Clip: Yes. When I did bring it in and then I slammed the door shut, I was confident enough that everything I did off to that, I hadn't done any mistakes. I was good to go.

By design. There are people specifically looking for you all the time. This is all they do. If you get suspected, you know in any way, let's say you're dumb, you can tell them whatever you want. They're not dummies. I mean, this is as high as it go. This the top of a line

[01:03:43] Jordan Harbinger: for more on how Frank Barasa printed his own fortune and got away with it.

Check out episode 488 on the Jordan Harbinger Show. Anywhere you get your podcasts.