1094: Vanity Products | Skeptical Sunday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I am here with Skeptical Sunday co-host Michael Regilio. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. On Sundays, though we do skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest, co-host and I break down a topic you may never have thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic.

Topics such as why tipping, makes no sense, circumcision, ear candling, crystal healing, diet, pills, internet porn, and more. And if you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show. Anyway, I suggest our episodes starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, cyber warfare, crime, and cults and more.

It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show, or at least be intimidating enough to scare them away from the show. Just visit Jordan harbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Vanity as kids were taught, it's both bad to be vain and that we should look good.

Vanity products like hair loss treatments, collagen drinks, teeth whitening products, they fill the shelves, they make billions of dollars. The fact is it's good to look good today. Skeptic, comedian and guy Feebly attempting to age with Grace. Michael Lio is here to reflect on vanity products.

[00:01:33] Michael Regilio: Hi Jordan.

You're a recognizable figure. I'm sure there's some pressure to be presentable.

[00:01:37] Jordan Harbinger: I don't know how recognizable I am and, and yet, yes, I feel a little bit of pressure to look good. I was actually, uh, unable to upload a photo for my ski pass because the selfie I took was quote, a photo of a celebrity end quote according to the website.

So that felt pretty good. That's amazing. Who did they think you looked like? Yeah, not funny. Okay. Kidding.

[00:01:59] Michael Regilio: Seriously, what'd you do? Did you put on like a fake nose and try again?

[00:02:03] Jordan Harbinger: No, I actually have to go into the office and prove that I'm me because otherwise it's just too unbelievable that Jordan Harbinger would get a ski pass in California where he lives.

[00:02:13] Michael Regilio: Alright, good luck with that. Look, certain things we do to look good, like working out and eating right, have health benefits. We look good and we feel good. Certain things we do to look good have health risks, like taking drugs to regrow

[00:02:26] Jordan Harbinger: hair. Mm, hair loss is no joke. It can lead to serious depression and baldness for that matter.

[00:02:32] Michael Regilio: Yeah, it can. In fact, one study found that some women with breast cancer were more distressed about losing their hair than their breasts. By age, 50, 50% of men and women are experiencing some level of hair loss, and 85% of those people experience anxiety.

[00:02:49] Jordan Harbinger: Hair is important, I guess, to both men and women as long as, as long as it's in the right place.

[00:02:54] Michael Regilio: Speaking of which, on average, a human has between two and 5 million hairs, of which about a hundred thousand are on the scalp.

[00:03:02] Jordan Harbinger: So the majority of our hair is not on our head, which I guess makes sense. Surface area and all that.

[00:03:06] Michael Regilio: Right. And blonde haired Caucasians have the highest hair density, which I can relate to because as a younger man, I had a thick blonde shock of hair, but no longer.

I now have a thin patch bordering on a bald spot at the back of my scalp. This. Crop circle used to bum me out a lot. Now it only bums me out a little, but recently I've noticed that there are a lot more hair regrowth products and drugs being advertised.

[00:03:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it would be hard to miss those things. Hair regrowth products.

They're having a moment right now. Big one. The advertising targets more than just middle-aged dudes now too. I remember as a kid even, was this in the nineties, I guess reciting the Rogan commercial. That was in middle school. That was early nineties.

[00:03:51] Michael Regilio: And all these commercials have made me wonder if I'm like missing something.

Have there been like some major breakthroughs? Just how effective are treatments now?

[00:04:00] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I'm doing okay in the battle to hold the hairline, but like all guys, I am curious about the technology just in case I need it someday, which seems kind of inevitable.

[00:04:09] Michael Regilio: Yeah, when I first realized my hair was thinning in the back, I was really insecure about it.

Then one day I went to the movies with a bunch of friends, and as fate would have it, I was in the row directly in front of my friends. Why weren't you in the row with your friends? Look, I don't wanna get into that look. Okay. But there they were all staring at the back of my head. Let me tell you something.

When you have a bald spot on the back of your head, you might not be able to see it, but you can feel it weirder. Still, you can feel people looking

[00:04:40] Jordan Harbinger: at it, so it's like you feel a draft, but also lasers. I mean, look, it's not that weird, but sitting alone in the row in front of your friends at the movies, that is weird.

Fine,

[00:04:49] Michael Regilio: but look, the fact of the matter is I could feel the heat from their stairs. Those lasers you mentioned, it completely ruined the movie. I was so self-conscious, but somehow after that night, I was less self-conscious. I didn't need to hide it anymore. Everybody knew. Then I began making jokes about it on stage.

Those jokes got laughs and suddenly I was okay with my patch. That is until this new wave of hair replacement advertisements came along suddenly. I started feeling all weird again. I could feel my bald patch again in the advertisements. All these cool dudes are just taking a pill

[00:05:25] Jordan Harbinger: in Presto. They have a full head of hair.

Even without doing research though, I know that's not how it works. I.

[00:05:32] Michael Regilio: When I looked at the topic list for skeptical Sundays, I saw this topic and I thought, let's do it. And while researching this topic, let's figure out if I should try one of these treatments.

[00:05:43] Jordan Harbinger: Wow, this. So this is like a personal episode for you, and I know that subliminal advertising is on the list too.

I'm wondering if maybe you should have researched that first since these ads. They sure seem to have messed you up a little bit. But you know, here we are. Okay,

[00:05:55] Michael Regilio: so look, obviously I'm not alone in wanting to go back to a full head of hair. The history of hair replacement goes back thousands of years. In fact, it was around the year 4,000 BCE, that ancient Egyptians rubbed their heads with a concoction of ground up dates, dog paws and donkey

[00:06:12] Jordan Harbinger: hooves.

Ooh, dog paws and donkey hoops. I'm curious why they thought that would work.

[00:06:18] Michael Regilio: I'm not sure why specifically they believed animal feet cured baldness, but in general, people losing their hair will believe anything and try anything like another Egyptian cure found in a medical text called the Ebers Papyrus, which instructed people to boil porcupine hair and press it to their scalp for four days.

Were they trying to grow the porcupine hair? I don't understand. I don't know, but I'm guessing most people would take porcupine hair over no hair. In fact, I bet it would look sharp. Ah, isn't that kind of the point? Indeed, porcupine Harris seems tame compared to what the father of Western medicine Hippocrates smeared on his big brain case.

Opium horse radish, pigeon droppings. Beet root and spices

[00:07:06] Jordan Harbinger: first and spices second. Once you got pigeon pooped rubbed on your head, no one is thinking about your hair. That must have smelled horrendous and also and looked worse,

[00:07:17] Michael Regilio: right? So in a way was a cure. I'm also guessing that once you've rubbed enough opium into your scalp, you'll stop caring about your hair.

You know what? This was an okay treatment for baldness. Hippocrates did, by the way, tap into the true root of hair loss. For real. He noticed that eunuchs never go bald, and he wasn't wrong to notice it. He was onto something.

[00:07:41] Jordan Harbinger: Wait, what you mean? The men who had their testicles cut off? That's some Game of Thrones stuff right there.

Those guys never go bald, which is funny 'cause isn't the guy in Game of Thrones totally bald? The eunuch?

[00:07:53] Michael Regilio: I don't know which guy. There's a guy that got his penis cut off. He's got hair. I think it's been a while since I've seen, oh, I don't know.

[00:07:58] Jordan Harbinger: There's a lot of castration in that series, so I'd have to go back.

[00:08:01] Michael Regilio: Oh, no, no, no, no. You're right. There is a guy who's got his balls cut off and he's totally bald, so they're playing both sides on this one. But look, as we'll see, testosterone and its byproducts are a part of the hair loss equation.

[00:08:14] Jordan Harbinger: I'm guessing no one ever decided to go with Hippocrates and just snip, snip.

'cause they don't want to go bald. Seems like a bad trade

[00:08:20] Michael Regilio: look. Who's to say in Rome around 50 BCE. A popular treatment for balding was to rub berries into the scalp.

[00:08:27] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm guessing that also did not work.

[00:08:29] Michael Regilio: No, but it probably dyed the scalp purple. Baldness is like a real catch 22. There's nothing more embarrassing than balding, except of course, getting caught with lame attempts to cover up balding totally.

The Romans who believed a full head of hair was a sign of favorability with the gods. They were particularly snarky to bald dudes as illustrated in this famous poem. On your bald paint, no wig you use, you draw hairs on with no excuse at least no barber needs to trim it. You can erase it in a minute.

[00:09:04] Jordan Harbinger: I love that the Romans actually spent time.

What chiseling that into stone? A poem making fun of bald people. They're like, this needs to withstand the test of time. Make sure this one lasts.

[00:09:13] Michael Regilio: Yeah. Actually, to be honest with you, the Romans wrote poems making fun of a lot of people, and there wasn't just one about bald people. There's also. How can you have so little hair yet?

Have it show up

[00:09:25] Jordan Harbinger: everywhere? Man, Rome is a tough room. I'm actually more impressed at the poems rhyme in English. How did that happen?

[00:09:32] Michael Regilio: I'm not sure. But one has to wonder what jokes were made at Julius Caesar's expense as the most famous example of the comb over.

[00:09:39] Jordan Harbinger: It's a hard look to pull off. First of all, you can spot one a mile away.

No, no, no.

[00:09:44] Michael Regilio: Those are just the bad comb overs. I've known some guys who take the art form to new levels. Truly remarkable how effective a determined man in a bottle of hairspray can be.

[00:09:54] Jordan Harbinger: I'm thinking of a former president or that movie Kingpin where the guy's comb over flops the other way while he is bowling.

It's just hanging out like a platter. Yeah.

[00:10:02] Michael Regilio: Man. Look, I never did anything that drastic except I did once consider converting to Judaism for the yamaka. Maybe Caesar should have done that now. It's not a bad idea. Yeah, well, Caesar tried a bunch of stuff, including a home remedy recommended by his lover, Cleopatra, which included ground up mice and horse teeth.

Oh,

[00:10:20] Jordan Harbinger: that's gross. Ground up mice is gross. Yeah, it didn't work. Well, that's, yeah. No surprise there either. Ugh.

[00:10:26] Michael Regilio: And after he got the ground up, mice wiped off his head. He opted for the coverup. Many people eventually adopt the hat. The hat. Yeah.

[00:10:34] Jordan Harbinger: In his case, a laurel wreath. Oh, I forgot about that. No, but seriously, ground up mice.

Why? What's the logic? On that.

[00:10:42] Michael Regilio: No man, you in the ground at mice. Hey, look, the mice thing has legs, so to speak, Ireland. Around the year 1000 ce, there was a cure that instructed people to shove mice into a clay jar, seal it, bury it next to a fire and

[00:10:56] Jordan Harbinger: leave it there for a year. Ah, gosh, more mice. What am I missing here?

I mean, mice are hairy. Is that kind of where the logic begins and ends, or what? I'm not sure,

[00:11:05] Michael Regilio: man. But look, smearing the dead mouse on his head was wild. But Caesar was onto something with the wreath. I say bring back the laurel wreath. Can you imagine if dudes wore wreaths instead of baseball caps? I'm not dissing the baseball cap.

I'm just very pro wreath. Instead of sweatshops pumping out pollution and baseball caps, we'd have farms growing baseball REITs and cowboy REITs.

[00:11:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I mean, those are biodegradable. And of all the crazy things you've said on this show. And that list, by the way, is impressive. This one is actually kind of interesting time to invest in a wreath farm.

Not just yet. Keep me in the loop. California agriculture's having a moment.

[00:11:43] Michael Regilio: I guess so. But hair loss has stumped doctors for a very long time. As recently as 1889, doctors believe baldness could be prevented with exercise, fresh air, and good hygiene.

[00:11:54] Jordan Harbinger: That can't hurt, right? If you're got the blood flow going, you're washing yourself once a year or whatever the standard was in 1889.

Come on.

[00:12:03] Michael Regilio: Totally. You're right. It can't hurt. But if you've got hair loss coming down the genealogy highway, you can't exercise your way out of it.

[00:12:10] Jordan Harbinger: I've always heard that it's something like, oh, your grandfather on your mother's side, and if that guy's bald, you're in trouble. Is there truth to that at all?

[00:12:18] Michael Regilio: Although hair loss is hereditary, that old nugget of wisdom is not necessarily true. So. If you're looking at a bald maternal grandfather and worrying about your luscious locks, don't, it might not be your fate. Thanks to modern advancements starting in the late 19th century, the first real treatments began in the form of hair transplants.

The early techniques were crude and often resulted in unnatural looking hair.

[00:12:42] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, to be fair, I've seen some modern examples of hair transplants that absolutely look unnatural, and I think. We've all seen that there's a few famous people with those bad eighties hair transplants, right?

[00:12:53] Michael Regilio: Yeah. The fact of the matter is the cutting edge of hair transplants are starting to look really good.

Doctors have been refining the techniques that were begun in the 1950s with the concept of donor dominance. That's a technique that uses hair from the back and sides of the head and transplants them to the top.

[00:13:07] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, I'm surprised nobody ever tried sewing dead mice to the top of someone's head. I mean that.

When did that die out?

[00:13:13] Michael Regilio: Those dead mice treatments, they did a number on you. Yeah, man. The, you know what, I've actually seen a few hair transplants that did look like someone sewed a dead mouse to someone's head. But the problem with hair transplants is that they don't address the root causes of hair loss.

Understanding those causes and creating drugs to counter them have changed the game.

[00:13:33] Jordan Harbinger: You know what's better than sewing dead mice Carcasses to your bald head. Define products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by SimpliSafe. It's easy to forego home security and think what are the odds?

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[00:14:59] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Better Help. You know, what makes the holidays special, those warm cozy moments at home, the smell of pumpkin pie, baking, the joy of sipping hot cocoa with the kids, that sense of togetherness. But there's another way to bring a little extra comfort and peace into your life no matter what time of year it is.

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[00:15:59] Jordan Harbinger: If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it's because of my network, the circle of people that I know, like, and trust, and I'm teaching you how to build yours for free over@sixminutenetworking.com.

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So come on and join us. You'll be in Smart company where you belong. You can find the course again for free over@sixminutenetworking.com. Now back to Skeptical Sunday. Now, I know last time during the cannabis episode people were like, there's too many puns. I'm just gonna say roots of hair loss. I'll let that one slide.

[00:16:45] Michael Regilio: Okay. One cause of hair loss is stress, which sucks because losing your hair stresses you out even more.

[00:16:51] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah. And then you lose more hair and you stress more 'cause you're going bald and you're losing more hair in the shower. I've, I've actually personally, when business would be like really bad, I've had some periods where I was so stressed.

My hair was falling out in clumps. Not like you pull it and there's a big bald spot, but you're just like, oh, normally when I shower, there's 10 hairs on the ground. Now there's 50. And it's my morning shower and then my evening shower after the gym and it's, oh God, it's really terrifying. 'cause you just think there's no going back.

Luckily that stress stopped and I, I guess my hair grew back 'cause I still have all my hair or at least most of it.

[00:17:23] Michael Regilio: Yeah. Well, lucky you, most people over 50 are experiencing some level of hair loss.

[00:17:28] Jordan Harbinger: So what happens on average at age 50? Do we know?

[00:17:32] Michael Regilio: Hair loss has probably been happening very slowly since 30, but at 50, you start to notice bright overhead lights become your enemy.

Hair goes through three stages of its life cycle. The first phase is called the antigen phase, and that's where the hair is still growing. Interestingly, the antigen phase for the hair on your head is up to eight years, which is why you can grow your hair so long while the antigen phase of an eyebrow

[00:17:55] Jordan Harbinger: is just a couple months, except for I have one straight eyebrow hair.

And this thing, the antigen phase is considerably longer, possibly infinite. Jen, she'll be like, oh, hold on. I gotta get this thing, and she'll pluck this sucker. And I, of course I want to see it, but if she let this thing go, it would like interfere with my eating. This thing goes inches long and it's just amazing and gross.

And it's one of those things where I'm like, okay. When we're both 80, you're not gonna be able to see that, and I'm not gonna be able to see that. And our grandkids are gonna be like, holy crap, grandpa's got an eyebrow that's wrapped around his whole head twice.

[00:18:29] Michael Regilio: Uh, as a comic, I have to say, I'm very impressed.

That might have been the first antigen phase joke in history. I. Phase two is called the catagen phase. This is where the hair is growing dormant and is dying from the inside out.

[00:18:41] Jordan Harbinger: Kind

[00:18:41] Michael Regilio: of like me.

[00:18:42] Jordan Harbinger: That's a dark turn for a guy that just witnessed the first antigen phase joke in history. I mean, we should be, should be excited about that.

[00:18:48] Michael Regilio: We should be celebrating that. Okay, phase three is called the telogen phase. The hair pinches often dies. Some hairs can reenter the lifecycle, others can't. Scientists now understand that it's hormones that drive these phases. Hormones are the drivers and the brakes on these processes. Hormones determine if you're a shag rug or a hardwood floor.

I'm getting way outside of my pay grade here, but Dihydrotestosterone or DHT, which comes from testosterone, is a hormone, and I'm totally oversimplifying here, but DHT can send your hair into the telogen phase and

[00:19:25] Jordan Harbinger: that's bad. So the issue stems from testosterone is in the male hormone. That's why Hippocrates maybe noticed Unix.

AKA guys with no testicles all kept their hair once castrated, I guess a guy would, has no testosterone. Well, that can't be right.

[00:19:39] Michael Regilio: Well, women by the way, also have testosterone. In fact, I learned that women have more testosterone than estrogen, but they have more estrogen than men. Testosterone. That's for everybody.

[00:19:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's, that makes sense. It's been a minute, but that seems obvious now. So why is it that younger men who have more testosterone, right, their stuff's healthy, they got those 900 counts or whatever. Why do they have more hair? Shouldn't it be less? And why? If women have testosterone. Don't they also experience hair loss at similar rates as men?

And I know that's two questions, but,

[00:20:10] Michael Regilio: and you're asking the wrong guy because again, this is way past my pay grade, but I did actually ask the same question and the answer I got was that it's the conversion of testosterone to DHT as men age. They have more DHT, which causes hair loss. The other thing that causes hair loss is decreased blood flow to the scalp, a healthy blood flow, replenishes nutrients and oxygen.

Understanding these mechanisms built the entire hair growth industry.

[00:20:37] Jordan Harbinger: So here's where I assume you're gonna tell us about all the drugs on the market that deal with DHT and whatnot.

[00:20:43] Michael Regilio: Yes, but let's go. In order of potential side effects, this is a good place to mention that a lot of these treatments work best in tandem with other treatments.

One thing that works really well with other treatments has almost no side effects, and that is microneedling. Have you

[00:20:58] Jordan Harbinger: heard

[00:20:58] Michael Regilio: of it?

[00:20:59] Jordan Harbinger: I haven't, but that sounds super painful. Needles in general, but microneedling just sounds like there's a lot of needles happening.

[00:21:06] Michael Regilio: Yeah, well, I was surprised. I hadn't heard of it either, but microneedling is, it's like a kind of acupuncture for your scalp,

[00:21:12] Jordan Harbinger: except.

It seems to work. Okay. Unnecessary jab at acupuncture, although we've done our skeptical Sunday on that as well. What is microneedling though exactly? I mean, it sounds like a zillion small needles. Am I close?

[00:21:23] Michael Regilio: And it kind of is. Microneedling is using a roller device of really small needles to micro puncture the skin, which promotes blood flow, which in turn promotes hair growth.

[00:21:33] Jordan Harbinger: Obvious question, does it hurt because a roller device with tons of small needles on it sounds like it hurts quite a bit actually.

[00:21:39] Michael Regilio: Yeah. Uh, apparently it can. In fact, it can even bleed, which is still better than the side effects of modern drugs. I.

[00:21:46] Jordan Harbinger: I suppose that makes sense. The idea of doing that to myself though is making me feel a little bit sick.

Are there any, I dunno, like herbal treatments that are doing anything?

[00:21:56] Michael Regilio: Sure, yeah, there actually are. And they're not all placebos. Some herbal remedies have been studied, like saw palmetto. Oh, I've heard of that. This herb is being investigated for potential to inhibit the enzyme, which converts testosterone into

[00:22:08] Jordan Harbinger: D-H-T-D-H-T, which causes hair loss.

And that's why before people right now, they're like warming up their emails like. Testosterone doesn't just randomly convert. There's an enzyme. We know, we just, we didn't wanna have to draw hexagons all over the script for this episode and explain it, but we're taking some serious shortcuts.

[00:22:24] Michael Regilio: Yeah, we're gonna get into the enzyme 'cause it does some really interesting stuff that we're gonna get into in a sec.

But the fact of the matter is, saw palmetto might actually work. So might laser treatments which are being studied, the lasers are thought to have an anti-inflammatory effect on the scalp and promote hair loss. But either way, you're getting zapped in your head with a laser, and that's pretty sci-fi kind of cool.

Kind of how I imagined all medical procedures will look like in the future someday.

[00:22:51] Jordan Harbinger: It reminds me of, do you ever see Starship Troopers? That movie?

[00:22:55] Michael Regilio: I saw it, yeah.

[00:22:56] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I mean, a million years ago. Right. But it reminds me of when they were getting a tattoo of their unit, when there's the montage of them like bonding and having fun and going out and getting wasted and stuff.

Instead of going to a tattoo place, they just, I. Hold their arm in front of these lasers that burn the tattoo into their skin and they're like, yeah, 'cause they're hammered. But it does feel right for a 21st century treatment. It would be weird if the key to hair laws turned out to be opium and donkey hooves.

That would be the surprise.

[00:23:23] Michael Regilio: Yeah, that would be weird if the cure for baldness was a drug we had all along, like. Caffeine, which ha in fact turns out to be an effective treatment for growing hair.

[00:23:32] Jordan Harbinger: No way. How was that possible? Everybody's been drinking coffee for what? Centuries and tea before that for a thousand years.

If caffeine cured baldness, there would just be no baldness except for Mormons. They're blonde and have that thick hair, but they abstain from caffeine. Those guys would all be bald.

[00:23:49] Michael Regilio: Just because I've had a conversation with a Mormon recently about this. It's not caffeine that they're not allowed to have it's hot drinks, which was interpreted as coffee and tea, and most Mormons are soda pop addicts.

Really full of caffeine.

[00:24:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Okay. I always thought it was caffeine hot drinks. That's a kind of a weird prohibition. I understood the caffeine because it gives you a mood lift, and maybe that was the logic, but now we just don't want you to have warm stuff, kind of a little bit more abstracted. We could get into Mormons another day.

No, no. I'm trying to be respectful. They know how I feel about spiritual belief, but they're still welcome to listen to the show and learn about hair loss. Absolutely. Don't worry, morons. God bless.

[00:24:23] Michael Regilio: Anyway, you said drinking and that was your mistake. 'cause who said anything about drinking? This is caffeine that you applied directly to your scalp.

[00:24:32] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. So are people rubbing coffee on their heads? Which I guess is brown, like some people's hair, and also not as bad as horse teeth and pigeon poop, but comes in slightly behind opium in terms of the fun factor.

[00:24:45] Michael Regilio: Yeah, the best part of waking up is having Folgers ground into the back of your head. Does have a certain ring to it, but no, it's not coffee, but cream, a caffeine cream.

Okay. Other new treatments include platelet rich plasma in which a person's own blood cells are injected into their scalp.

[00:25:03] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, I'm glad you told us. It's a caffeine cream. I get some emails from people that I'm like, we did not advise you to do that on feedback Friday. That's the whole do your own research before applying anything you hear on the show and people are like, of course I will, because I don't want it.

Dozen emails from people who dump scalding hot black coffee on their head as the result of this episode, and they're like, yeah. It also promotes blood flow and it has caffeine. People have done some insane stuff as a result of the advice here. So I am highlighting that it's likely a prescription caffeine cream that is for applying to your head.

What about the biggest dog on the, uh, balding block, which is Rogaine? And not to be confused with Spotify's most popular podcaster.

[00:25:40] Michael Regilio: Yeah. Okay, so here we go with the stuff with side effects. The active ingredient in Rogan is Minoxidil. Minoxidil was developed to treat hypertension. Actually, it was developed to cure ulcers, but it didn't work for that.

But it did lower blood pressure, so it was approved for blood pressure, but it ended up growing hair on people's heads, so they just switched it to that.

[00:26:01] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay. So it started as ulcer medication, switched to a blood pressure medication, then switched to hair loss. Medicine. So they just sort of, it seems like they just tripped and stumbled into the hair game.

[00:26:13] Michael Regilio: Yeah, pretty much. Minoxidil works by increasing blood flow to the scalp and everywhere else as one would expect when taking an ulcer slash hypertension slash hair regrowth slash dessert topping medication. There are side effects like ankle swelling, headaches, and dizziness.

[00:26:31] Jordan Harbinger: That's definitely not good.

[00:26:32] Michael Regilio: Other side effects include reduction in libido, reductions in overall feelings of wellbeing and increases of male

[00:26:40] Jordan Harbinger: breast tissue. Oh man, that's a hell of a catchphrase. Minoxidil grow hair and breasts and also maybe completely lose interest in sex and life altogether. That's horrible.

[00:26:53] Michael Regilio: Yeah, it's not always an easy choice.

Plus the hair growth is only effective as long as you're on Minoxidil. So it's either take it for life or stop at some point and watch your hair fall back out. So Minoxidil might not be for you. There's always Finasteride. That's the drug in all the other big brands like Propecia.

[00:27:14] Jordan Harbinger: I have heard of that one actually.

I thought that was something else, but I have heard of that.

[00:27:17] Michael Regilio: The history of Finasteride turns out to be an interesting one as well. It all started with the study of a group of intersex children in the Caribbean who were raised as girls, then at puberty, grew external male sex organs.

[00:27:35] Jordan Harbinger: Wait, you're saying these girls grew penises.

Tell me what you mean right now. Michael Lio. This is so bizarre.

[00:27:43] Michael Regilio: Okay. No, it's not. That's not quite what I'm telling you. What I am telling you is that these individuals who appear to be female at birth and are raised as girls, grow penises at around 12 years of age, and usually they'll switch from identifying as girls to identifying as boys.

They're called veces, which in Spanish means. Penis at 12.

[00:28:05] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Okay. Oh my God. I have no idea what this has to do with people growing hair, but I think everyone's on the same page when I say we absolutely are going down this rabbit hole right now. People growing a penis spontaneously is way more interesting than anything else we could have planned to for this show.

So can we do that? That's, this is so weird.

[00:28:22] Michael Regilio: Of course you're right. And it is super interesting and it does, by the way, have to do with hair regrowth. It all has to do with a genetic condition that is incredibly rare everywhere on earth, except one small village in the Dominican Republic called Salinas In Salinas, one out of 90 boys are born with this condition.

Before any of this was understood, one would have been justified in saying that in Salinas, one out of 90 girls born turned into boys at around 12 years of age, which is what people used to think.

[00:28:57] Jordan Harbinger: Hey ladies, did you grow a penis at age 12? If not, console yourself with the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Fly Kit. If you travel internationally, you know how brutal jet lag can be. I used to wipe me out for days, sometimes even weeks after a trip, and as I get older, kind of seems longer. Until I found Fly Kit, which is amazing. Really, truly like a kind of a miracle product.

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[00:30:13] Jen Harbinger: Head over to fly kitt.com. That's fly with two T's, and use promo code Jordan to get 15% off your first order.

That's fly kit F-L-Y-K-I-T t.com promo code Jordan. Try it out on your next trip, and seriously let us know how it works for you.

[00:30:27] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Progressive. Let's face it, sometimes multitasking can be overwhelming. Like when your favorite podcast is playing, the person next to you is talking and your car fan is blasting all while you're trying to find the perfect parking spot.

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It is your support of our sponsors that keeps the lights on around here. All that deals. Discount codes and ways to support the show are over on the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Now for the rest of skeptical Sunday. So, okay. It's a genetic condition. 'cause I'm thinking how have I never heard of this if it's so common.

But this is starting to make some sense because Dominican Republic is on an island and is Salinas also an island? I don't know. It's a small village. So what's the condition? Do we know anything? What's going on? Here.

[00:31:49] Michael Regilio: As we know at conception, a person destined to be a girl has a set of X chromosomes while a person destined to become a boy has an X and a Y.

Then at around eight weeks after conception, the sex hormones kick in. If you're genetically male, the Y chromosome instructs your gonads to become testicles and sends testosterones to something called the tubercle, and the testosterone is converted into. DHT. Ah, yes. DHT. I'm starting to see the connection here and the DHT turns the tubercle into a penis in Doce.

The reason they don't have what we would recognize as a penis when they're born is because they are deficient in an enzyme, which we mentioned earlier, called five Alpha reductase, which converts testosterone into DHT. But at puberty, when genetic males get a second blast of testosterone, they finish growing the penis.

This is why people believe that these girls were growing a penis

[00:32:51] Jordan Harbinger: at 12. This is flat out incredible. So at birth, they're believed to be girls. It's not like some sort of weird superstitious thing. They just, they look like maybe every other girl. They're raised as girls, and then it's like, oh. Miguel is actually a boy.

Let's have a party. Yeah. Wow. That opens up a whole host of new questions, and we still haven't even discussed how this has anything to do with hair loss or finished steroid. Oh my gosh. I.

[00:33:20] Michael Regilio: You're right. It does open up a whole host of new questions, and I'm sure we could do a whole episode here, so I'll just hit you with this little fact that I thought was so interesting.

Despite being raised as girls, most veces grow up to be heterosexual males. So much for the people who think you can turn someone gay or turn someone straight. Sorry. Gay conversion advocates.

[00:33:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I don't need to learn about wave osis to understand that gay conversion has been an intellectually bankrupt idea for a long time and.

This whole thing with the enzymes and stuff has profound implications for people that are transgender or all this stuff that we're just now beginning to fully understand. But you haven't told me how this has anything to do with Finasteride. Are we getting back to that?

[00:34:01] Michael Regilio: Yes. Right now it's because Guava Doce had smaller prostates due to their genetic disorders.

Scientists used what they learned about veces to help people with enlarged prostates. It was in studying veces that scientists were able to develop

[00:34:15] Jordan Harbinger: Finasteride. Wait, Finasteride. Is for hair growth not enlarged prostates, or is it for both?

[00:34:21] Michael Regilio: Yeah. Turns out the taking steroid grows hair. That's the hair growth industry's motto.

Someone will accidentally invent something for us. How effective is this? It can increase hair growth by 20%. It can reduce hair loss in 90% of people. It increases hair thickness by 20 to 30%.

[00:34:41] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, that all sounds pretty good, but does it make you spontaneously? Well, I guess if it makes you grow a penis, most guys would be fine with that.

Yeah. I don't know if women maybe should take this.

[00:34:49] Michael Regilio: It kind of has the opposite effect because it can also cause erectile dysfunction, suicidal thoughts, depression, and low sex drive.

[00:34:56] Jordan Harbinger: That all sounds pretty bad, man. They never tell you to appreciate your side effect free head of hair when you're young, do they?

No, they don't.

[00:35:05] Michael Regilio: But those are just possible side effects for lots of people. These options work out great, especially when done in conjunction with other stuff like microneedling.

[00:35:15] Jordan Harbinger: Hair is so important that we're gonna risk erectile dysfunction, suicidal ideation. We're gonna rub poop and opium on our scalp.

Yep. Stab ourselves in the head thousands of times to grow it or keep it. Yep. So that's vanity product number one. You are also gonna tell us about collagen drinks, which just can't. Sounds fake to me. It always has.

[00:35:36] Michael Regilio: Guess what collagen is all the rage, influencers and celebrities are downing collagen, drinks like crazy.

Collagen drinkers claim collagen gives them healthier, younger looking skin, hair, and nails. And since the natural collagen our bodies make provide support for these very tissues, these claims actually seem plausible.

[00:35:56] Jordan Harbinger: It sounds cool, but it also kind of sounds like, oh, rhino Horn makes your wee wee work better.

It's a little bit too much of a direct connection for me, but what exactly is collagen?

[00:36:07] Michael Regilio: Collagen is a protein. It's the most common protein found in the body. It is in skin, hair, nails, bones, cartilage, and tendons. It works with other stuff in our body to give our skin its moisture and elasticity. It's also partly what hair and nails are made of.

Collagen also helps s wounds to heal.

[00:36:27] Jordan Harbinger: So I assume our bodies make it. Why do I need to eat it, for example?

[00:36:31] Michael Regilio: Well, our bodies do produce collagen using foods like bone broth, meat and fish, but old man time, sun exposure, smoking and drinking decreases the amount we produce,

[00:36:42] Jordan Harbinger: although I'm sure smoking sun and sipping booze deplete collagen.

I'm guessing time is 90% of it or whatever, the real factored player. There's just no amount of sobriety in the shade that's gonna keep you from looking old.

[00:36:53] Michael Regilio: Yeah, and that's true. Over time our bodies make less and less collagen and no matter what we drink, we get brittle bones and we get all wrinkly. So in our never ending quest to slow the hands of time people have taken to gulping

[00:37:06] Jordan Harbinger: collagen.

And where does all the collagen come from that we're gulping? 'cause it can't, it's gonna be something gross for sure.

[00:37:12] Michael Regilio: Right? Well, you're not wrong. Mostly from cows, pigs, chickens, and fish. Nothing like a big glass of cow chicken, pig fish juice. Ooh,

[00:37:20] Jordan Harbinger: yeah. You did find a way to make this gross too. However, it almost had to be, right.

So bravo, before I iib cow chicken, fish fig juice. Let me ask, does it actually work? Because if it does, I'll suffer through it.

[00:37:32] Michael Regilio: Yeah, several studies have been conducted and results are promising, particularly when it comes to the skin. The others found that taking collagen supplements daily for at least three months improved skin elasticity and hydration and reduced wrinkles.

In addition, another study found that collagen supplements were linked to improvements in cardiovascular health, including blood pressure and cholesterol levels.

[00:37:53] Jordan Harbinger: All right, sounds great. Get them animals in the blender.

[00:37:57] Michael Regilio: In addition, another study showed that men who drink. The barnyard slurry while working out showed increased muscle strength compared to those who just took a placebo.

[00:38:07] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I've heard whey protein, like protein made from egg way. Basically, the stuff you see, meathead, like me drinking on the regular is better for building muscle than collagen. And I, I will say like the study shows that consuming protein helps with muscle growth. It's like, eh, okay, that's not new. Yeah,

[00:38:22] Michael Regilio: and you're right, weight is better for building muscles, but if you're already drinking collagen for skin health, this might be an extra added little benefit.

[00:38:30] Jordan Harbinger: Are there risks though?

[00:38:32] Michael Regilio: No, not really. According to recent study, collagen is safe and carries very low risk of side effects. Even at really high doses, I guess you can safely drink the entire cow. The only caveat I saw is that there's no real evidence that collagen is beneficial to hair and nails.

[00:38:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's okay.

We always have our jars of porcupine hair and pigeon crap for that.

[00:38:55] Michael Regilio: I live in Southern California and I can tell you that if you wanna look good, there's something to that. Staying out of the sun. Advice.

[00:39:02] Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah, Hollywood, I mean, tans are out and spray tans are in, and you see older folks that go to the beach every day and they look like they've smoked their whole life, even if they're super healthy.

[00:39:12] Michael Regilio: Absolutely. You know what else is in is teeth whitening, and I've seen people whose teeth are so bright you get a tan just from standing in front of them. In fact, I kind of have this public service announcement there is such a thing as too white of teeth. I'm looking at you local newscasters.

[00:39:31] Jordan Harbinger: I have noticed this and I thought, oh, is it the lighting?

But it's like veneers plus teeth, whitening plus makeup, plus the lighting. And I have noticed some insanely white teeth out there, not just on tv as of late, especially when I go to LA for meetings, I'm like, what is with everyone's teeth? Just, you gotta wear sunglasses and look at these people. Smile.

[00:39:48] Michael Regilio: That's true, but actually it's not. Just as of late, our old friends, the Egyptians started tooth whitening 4,000 years ago. They had a paste made of ground P stone and wine vinegar. Then like now, white teeth were a sign of beauty and wealth

[00:40:04] Jordan Harbinger: Back then though, just having teeth at all was probably a sign of beauty and wealth.

I mean, didn't people lose their teeth when they were like 20?

[00:40:11] Michael Regilio: Yeah, absolutely. But he, you're gonna love this one. Look at the Romans. They had a great way of whitening teeth.

[00:40:18] Jordan Harbinger: I bet they did. They

[00:40:19] Michael Regilio: used urine.

[00:40:20] Jordan Harbinger: Oof.

[00:40:20] Michael Regilio: The ammonia in the urine was the bleaching

[00:40:23] Jordan Harbinger: agent. Oh, this is, it's so weird. I did not expect this episode to be the grossest episode ever of Skeptical Sunday.

I thought for sure it would be like circumcision or something like that. How did you make this grosser than the plastic surgery episode? It's really impressive.

[00:40:37] Michael Regilio: Oh yeah, it's gross. And you'll notice, by the way, I did not say they used their urine to clean their teeth. Oh no. I just said they used urine I couldn't find.

Where they actually got the urine to clean their teeth. But don't just assume, because there were lots of places to get urine in ancient Rome. They used it for a bunch of stuff.

[00:40:58] Jordan Harbinger: They washed their clothes in it. Oh, this is so far off the topic of teeth whitening, but tell me more.

[00:41:03] Michael Regilio: No, it's not that far off of tooth whitening because like I said, it's the properties of the urine that whitened the togas that also whitened the teeth.

In ancient Rome, there were giant pots placed in front of laundry businesses. Anyone could pee in the pot. In fact, the owners encouraged you to pee in their pot Later it would be collected and used to clean clothes or possibly

[00:41:27] Jordan Harbinger: whiten

[00:41:27] Michael Regilio: teeth,

[00:41:28] Jordan Harbinger: so everybody had a pot to piss in. Seems equitable. That's gotta be where that expression comes from for sure.

Uh, maybe not. Nevermind.

[00:41:35] Michael Regilio: That was the Romans In the late 17 hundreds. The barber took care of your teeth. He did normal stuff to whiten your teeth, like filing them and applying acid to them.

[00:41:43] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my gosh. I barely trust my barber to cut my hair, but I can think of two things wrong with using a file in acid to whiten teeth.

My gosh. That is, they made mistakes with that. That just ended horribly.

[00:41:54] Michael Regilio: Oh yeah. Luckily we discovered fluoride in the 19th century, which is better for tooth health than acid, but. Actually fluoride stains teeth, but it's not the real problem. Like coffee and tea, tooth whitening works by using bleaching agents.

The most common today are hydrogen peroxide and carbonide peroxide,

[00:42:16] Jordan Harbinger: and the terrible side effects are none. Really? Really? Wow.

[00:42:20] Michael Regilio: Yeah. There is a risk of increased tooth sensitivity. I did find a horror story of a woman in the UK having her lips swell up like balloons, but after further reading, turns out she just went to some random person's house and God knows what this person put on her teeth for the most part.

It's safe. If you want white teeth, go for it. I just think super white teeth look weird, especially on high def tv, particularly in front of a green screen weather map. But hey, that's just me.

[00:42:51] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I almost wonder if the computer's making that worse, but they have to know, gosh, her lips swelled up. It must have been the donkey hooves or whatever, but those giant white newscaster teeth always remind me of that movie.

Something about Mary. I was trying to think of the name of the movie.

[00:43:04] Michael Regilio: Yeah, that is a hilarious movie. Turns out white teeth come with half the headaches as a fresh new head of hair in terms of the side effects and all that.

[00:43:14] Jordan Harbinger: What about that bald spot? Are you gonna do something about that?

[00:43:16] Michael Regilio: Probably not for one, I'm married, so she's stuck.

And for two, in researching this topic, I decided that I disagree with the notion that there's anything about me that needs to be cured. In fact, I was reading this old British newspaper from the 17 hundreds when they had sham cures for baldness coming out. The author said that the best cure for baldness is to just not be bothered by it.

And I thought, you know what? That sounds great. Definitely has the least side effects. So that's what I'm gonna go with. Unless, of course, a cheaper, more effective method with fewer side effects comes out, then I'm all in.

[00:43:53] Jordan Harbinger: Thanks Michael, and thank you for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me, jordan@jordanharbinger.com.

Show notes on the website as well@jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers deals, discounts, and ways to support the show all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Michael Lio at Michael Lio on Instagram tour dates are up now as well.

We'll link to that in the show notes because. Nobody can spell Lio. This show has created an association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Foggerty, Ian Baird, mil o Campo, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, certainly not a doctor.

So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show, especially when it involves putting something in or on your body. Also, we may get a few things wrong here and there, especially on Skeptical Sunday because these topics are so involved. If you think we really dropped the ball on something, definitely let us know.

We're usually pretty receptive to that. And y'all know how to reach me, jordan@jordanharbinger.com. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a trailer for another episode that I think you might enjoy.

[00:45:17] Clip: What I tried to do was thank a thousand people who had even the smallest role in making my cup of coffee possible and the,

[00:45:26] Jordan Harbinger: the a thousand year go, oh, that's not a lot.

It's a, that's a lot. Oh

[00:45:29] Clip: my God. It was a lot. A hundred people would be a tedious No, it, it was, it was way more than I anticipated. 10, 10 times that many. Everything we do requires hundreds, thousands of interconnected people and that we take for granted. And just making this mental switch, just from a selfish point of view is very good because it really does help you appreciate the hundreds of things that go right every day instead of focusing on the three or four that go wrong.

There's a great quote. I wish I'd come up with it myself, but it says it's easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than to think your way into a new way of acting. So I had to fake it for a long time. You know, I would wake up in a grumpy mood, but I'd be like, I have to spend an hour calling or visiting people and thanking them, and I'm not in the mood to do that right now.

So it was like acting. It was like method acting, and I would force myself to do it. But I'll tell you, by the end of that hour, your mind, you know, the cognitive dissonance is too much. Your mind will switch over to gratefulness. There's a great quote that happiness does not lead to gratitude. Gratitude leads to happiness.

Having that mindset really will make you happier

[00:46:45] Jordan Harbinger: For more with AJ Jacobs and his fascinating journey to thank. Everyone involved in his cup of morning coffee and an inside look at just how complex the supply chain of our lives really is. Check out episode 174 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.