989: Bad Behavior Uncorrected Leaves Dad Unprotected | Feedback Friday

989: Bad Behavior Uncorrected Leaves Dad Unprotected | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback. Friday producer, the only dude who could accidentally wear a woman's blouse to an interview and not realize it. Gabriel Mizrahi, we're still talking about that, huh? Oh, oh yeah. We're we're gonna be talking about that for as long as the show exists.

[00:00:20] This, this is just never going away. Uh, much like shingles Exactly. Just lies dormant in your immune system.

[00:00:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. The irony though is that you can only get shingles once, but apparently I'm gonna get teased about this forever. Well, like diamonds, the image of you

[00:00:33] Jordan Harbinger: wearing a woman's blouse to an interview is forever.

[00:00:36] On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the story of secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, cold case, homicide, investigators, hostage negotiators, astronauts, and hackers.

[00:00:58] On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and mercilessly roast Gabe for his lifelong commitment to ridiculous clothing and his inadvertent cross-dressing in the worst possible scenarios. Yes. Before we dive in, I just read this really great thing my friend Derek Sives wrote, and I had to share it with you guys.

[00:01:15] He wrote, when you experience someone else's genius work, a little part of you feels, oh, that's what I could have done. I would've done and should have done. Someone else did it though You didn't do it. They fought the resistance. You gave into distractions. They made it a top priority. You said you'd get to it someday.

[00:01:33] They took the time you meant to. When this happens, you can take it two ways. You can let that part of you give up, oh, well now I don't need to make that anymore. Or you could do something about that jealous pain. Shut off your phone, kill the distractions, make it top priority and spend the time. It does take many hours to make what you wanna make.

[00:01:52] The hours don't suddenly appear. You have to steal them from comfort. Ooh, I love that. That's a good

[00:01:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: one.

[00:01:59] Jordan Harbinger: You have to steal them from comfort. You do. I find myself going back and forth on this because I love it for multiple reasons, but I just got back from a conference about podcasting and a lot of people were saying things like, now I'm on the marketing side, but I used to have my own show.

[00:02:14] But you know, it's just, as you know, it takes a lot of work and a lot of people say like, oh yeah, I had a client who did this. Uh, he started a podcast. But as you know, it takes a lot of work and what they're saying is they quit before anything really happened with it, which I understand. I mean, it is a lot of work.

[00:02:27] You really have to enjoy doing this kind of thing. A lot of people think it's easy money, which is laughable. But the same thing with writing a book, right? I mean, a lot of my friends who are authors, Ryan Holiday, mark Manson, James Clear, like those guys are always very focused on this stuff, and it's really impressive to see.

[00:02:46] These are not guys that coast ever, really, even when they have tons and tons of money and tons and tons of whatever, they're like, I'm gonna start YouTubing now, or I'm gonna write another book. And it's like, oh my gosh, they're just on one. It's really, really impressive. Not everybody can do that. And while their writing is good, it's great, actually.

[00:03:03] It's the focus really, that sets them apart. There's tons of good stuff out there. It's just that people haven't, they kind of half-assed the creation of it or the marketing of it, or whatever it is. It's really impressive to see when it all comes together. All right, as always, we've got some fun ones. We got doozies.

[00:03:17] Let's dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing outta the mail back?

[00:03:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, my dad, who's paralyzed from the waist down and was recently diagnosed with stage four cancer, lives with his wife, his 40 something stepdaughter and his early thirties. Step grandson who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

[00:03:38] A week ago during a psychotic episode, he held my youngest brother, my bedridden dad and his female caretaker, a hostage in the house for an hour and a half while my oldest brother, my stepsister, and a bunch of armed police were outside. Before that he had gone to kill his ex-girlfriend and mother of his child, but his mom followed him and got him to turn back around to the house.

[00:04:00] Jordan Harbinger: That is terrifying. So this guy is fully insane and violent on top of it.

[00:04:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. My youngest brother told me, he was saying some awful things like, I haven't killed yet, but I'm gonna kill. And threatening that if a cop stepped inside the house, he would jump on my dad. So their shots would be aimed toward my dad and then it would be payday for my brother.

[00:04:21] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That is, I mean, sad. Doesn't quite cover it. This is just cra psycho craziness. Geez.

[00:04:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: My brother also recorded him threatening to kill him, my dad and the caretaker. Eventually the police came in and no one was harmed. The police took the grandson to a mental hospital, but did not arrest him. Later without thinking, my stepmom called her grandson and told him that what he did was bad and said that my brother got a recording of him.

[00:04:48] So now my brother is worried about being a target again. Once grandson is outta the hospital.

[00:04:53] Jordan Harbinger: Why? Why did she say that to him? I almost, yes. Without thinking, I don't know man. This, I'm worried about your brother too. This is so annoying. This woman is brain dead.

[00:05:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: What the hell? My brothers have been scrambling to get restraining orders in place, but it'll be some time before the court approves the order.

[00:05:09] If the hospital lets the grandson out, he might be able to go back to the house and unless he commits a crime, the police might not be able to get him out of there.

[00:05:17] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Plus, how useful is a restraining order gonna be with somebody who's this severely mentally ill? Right? I mean, if this guy isn't psychologically sound, he's not gonna adhere to a piece of paper.

[00:05:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Will he even understand it? Right. So, yeah. She goes on a couple days after the incident, my brother showed the police, the recording of the grandson, threatening to kill them. And the police said they couldn't do anything about it because it was in the past, or something along those lines. Oh, that is so infuriating, but unfortunately very common based on what we've learned over the years, police often don't take threats very seriously, usually because they're kind of abstract.

[00:05:52] They can be hard to assess. I think there are some criteria for what makes a threat a threat, like if it's pointed at a person specifically, and if it's imminent, like if the person has the means to carry it out and they have a plan, they have a weapon and a time, that kind of thing.

[00:06:06] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, it sounds like the brother has a recording of him saying he's gonna kill these specific people.

[00:06:10] But I will also add that police are not always motivated to intervene in these cases. Even though threatening someone is definitely a crime in many, if not most states, but like here in California, we have a criminal threat statute that makes it a crime to communicate a threat to anybody that could result in great bodily injury or death.

[00:06:27] Other states, you can get arrested and charged with something like harassment, but yet you can't always bank on the police arresting someone for threats. Even though your situation sounds like it absolutely deserves some kind of intervention. I mean, ignoring this seems just unconscionable to me.

[00:06:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: I also don't see why it matters that it happened in the past, right?

[00:06:44] All threats are in the past once you report them to the cops. True. Are we missing something here? I don't understand. Anyway, she goes on. We really don't wanna wait for somebody to get hurt. We have lots of concerns about my dad's safety, and many of my siblings won't bring their kids to the house anymore, which really stinks for my dad.

[00:07:00] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah, but can you blame him? Jesus, who's coming over to visit PopPop when his step grandson, who held everyone hostage the other week might snap and strangle the kids in the guest bathroom. If this is my family, I'd stay the hell away too. Sorry, dad. You know, at some point this is a choice that you and your wife are making, but it's sad your dad pays the price.

[00:07:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: When my dad was in the hospital after his fall, my sister and I told the hospital social worker, all of our concerns about my dad's safety. It doesn't sound like much has been done to protect him. I feel like we need to hire a security guard or something. Do you have any suggestions for keeping my dad safe?

[00:07:33] How do we get everyone except my dad and his wife out of the house? What do you think Adult Protective Services would or could do? How could the police just dismiss the recording My brother got, I. How can they not do anything to stop the grandson from potentially killing someone signed trying to get this menace off the premises before he creates a tragic mess.

[00:07:54] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, man. This is horrifying. Gabe, I thought you had it bad living next to Josh. Just imagine living with Josh.

[00:08:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, tell me about it. And Josh wasn't some gentle guy, but he was violent and aggressive and determined to hurt and or kill you and your entire family. Terrifying,

[00:08:10] Jordan Harbinger: literal nightmare. I mean, I remember Josh was like arranging flowers most of the time.

[00:08:13] He did some creepy stuff, right? But a lot of it, his stuff was like talking to trees and harmless. Yeah. This is a totally different situation. Well, I am so sorry that this is happening to you and your family. If my dad were in this situation, I would be freaking out too. So look, the vast majority. And I think we've said this on the show before, the vast majority of schizophrenic people, they're not violent.

[00:08:32] The literature says that when schizophrenic people become violent, it's usually, they're usually a danger only to themselves. But your, your dad's step grandson, he clearly falls in the dangerous camp and something has to be done to protect your family here. Unfortunately, there are a lot of cracks in the system that people like your dad's grandson fall into, and it might take a lot of creativity and persistence to get help, but there has to be a way.

[00:08:56] So first of all, I would absolutely keep calling the police, keep telling them your story. Get somebody to take your case more seriously if you have to call your local pd, not nine one one, but the department itself every day, twice a day. If you gotta do that, do it. Be persistent. Be a thorn in some lieutenant's side if you have to.

[00:09:13] I'm not saying piss 'em off or alienate them, but don't let 'em brush you off either. I would frame it as if you guys don't act on these credible recorded threats, you're going to be responding to a homicide soon. And if you have any connections to your local police department, like a friend who works there, a contact and city council, anything like that, I would work those angles as well.

[00:09:33] Sometimes you need somebody from on high to sort of galvanize the police into acting like, Hey, uh, if this is a murder, everyone's gonna know that you didn't do anything. Like we have documentation now about hiring a security guard. I have mixed feelings about that. I totally get why this option occurred to you.

[00:09:49] I can't blame you for wanting someone around, but I worry that this is just good. I mean, one good luck finding that, making it affordable, even if you have tons of cash, it's just very hard to do. I worry this is gonna make the grandson more paranoid. Even if you did find somebody, it might make him more violent and it somehow might escalate things with him.

[00:10:06] But if you can find somebody who's trained to interact with and deescalate somebody with severe mental illness, it might be an option. I just don't know how many private security guards have this training and background. Now about getting everyone outta the house. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that's gonna be a lot harder.

[00:10:23] Your dad's grandson, he's a family member. He's lived at the house for a while, so the police might struggle to find grounds to remove him from the situation unless he's an active threat to himself or others, which he clearly is, by the way. But the, the police have already shown they're not taking that seriously.

[00:10:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. What I learned from the Josh situation is that the criteria for removing somebody from their home and institutionalizing them are, first of all, are they a threat to themselves or to somebody else, and or are they gravely disabled? Which means are they able to take care of themselves in very basic ways?

[00:10:55] Jordan Harbinger: Well, based on what our friend here is saying, this dude is clearly a threat to other people. So again, I'm mystified as to why the police aren't doing something.

[00:11:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, I wonder if it's because this isn't an imminent threat in their minds, which means having a plan and having the means to carry it out.

[00:11:10] So if he's like, man, I, I'm gonna kill grams if he pisses me off again, the police might not take that very seriously. But if he says, when the caregiver leaves tonight, I'm gonna slip in a grandpa's room and kill him with the gun I bought earlier this week. That might give the police grounds to intervene.

[00:11:25] I wish it weren't that way, but that's how it is in California anyway.

[00:11:27] Jordan Harbinger: Right. But he literally went to his girlfriend's house to kill her. So like how much more imminent does it need to get?

[00:11:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, good point. And that's where I'm confused too. The question of whether he's gravely disabled is also kind of tricky because despite his mental state, they might look at him and go, okay, he has a roof over his head.

[00:11:44] He has access to food, he can feed himself somehow. He's wearing pants. I mean, unfortunately that means he might not meet that threshold. Still, I would contact the Department of Mental Health or whatever the equivalent agency is in your area and tell them what's going on. Sadly, ah, this is so frustrating.

[00:12:01] But these agencies tend to move slowly as well. But if they know that there's somebody violent in your dad's house, they might prioritize your case. Ideally, they come to the house, they talk to your dad's grandson. They do a little evaluation. If they can see that he's clearly psychotic, and I hope that they can see that he's violent.

[00:12:17] And if they can determine that he's a threat to others and or unable to take care of himself, then they might be able to recommend an involuntary psychiatric hold once again. But again, I wouldn't get too excited about this because first of all, even if they do place him on an involuntary hold, those are usually 72 hours.

[00:12:34] Now the hospital can then decide to hold somebody for longer, but there's no guarantee, especially if he ends up in a public hospital where resources are, you know, limited. He could be back home in three days, four days, a week, two weeks, whatever it ends up being. And I don't know at that point he could be even angrier.

[00:12:49] Jordan Harbinger: On the other hand though, if they keep him in the hospital, they'd probably medicate him. Right? And ideally they wouldn't release him until he were stable or no longer a threat to other people. In a perfect world,

[00:12:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: yes, but depending on this guy's personality, how he feels about certain interventions, there's no guarantee that he's gonna stay on his medications.

[00:13:06] And that was the big challenge with Josh. He thought that the medication was controlling him, which I, I mean, it is controlling him, but he thought it was like part of some conspiracy to suppress him and you know, all of that. So he didn't wanna take it. He never would. The other challenge is the department of Mental Health might come up against the same gravely disabled standard we just talked about.

[00:13:24] Sometimes they even want a mentally ill person to stay where they are. That's also almost what happened with Josh, because sometimes they advocate for the mentally ill person. Sometimes they would rather see them stay in their current living situation than take up a bed in an overcrowded hospital. But dude, the facts here are uniquely urgent.

[00:13:41] I mean, there's potential harm to a dependent or an elder adult here, so I really do hope they do something.

[00:13:47] Jordan Harbinger: And on that note, yes, I would absolutely call Adult Protective Services and file a report, and I would keep reporting this until they intervene. What they should do at a minimum is come out to the house and check on your dad, assess the living situation in general.

[00:14:00] What happens after that depends on their assessment. In an ideal world, grandson gets removed from the home somehow. But if he's not directly responsible for his grandfather's care, it's hard to say if they'd even go that far. So this really depends on what the a PS investigation finds and the laws in your state.

[00:14:16] But the one thing that might make the police and a PS jump on this faster is I, I would gather all the incident reports from contacting the police. You can request those, include them with your report to a PS, so they can see there is a history of threats and of trying to get the police to intervene.

[00:14:32] And I would definitely include the report about the night he held everyone hostage and the police were outside and record the, include the recording your brother made where he's threatening to kill everyone. That's crucial evidence. You want a PS and the police to see that this guy has made clear threats of harm in addition to actual harm because holding everyone hostage in the house, that sounds pretty harmful to me.

[00:14:51] I mean, what if your dad was in there without life sustaining medications for a long period of time? What if he was depriving him of food or access to his caregiver? What if he prevents him from going to medical appointments? I have to think that all of that would be considered elder abuse and or dependent adult neglect, which is precisely what a PS is there to look into.

[00:15:09] That's their whole job.

[00:15:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm also confused about where this kid's parents are in all of this.

[00:15:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You know, I was wondering that too. Did they just dump him on Grandpa because they don't wanna deal with him, or grandma, I should say. Right. Have they been through this for decades and now they're over it? I don't understand.

[00:15:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: They have the primary responsibility here, family-wise to help, but they seem to be MIA from the sound of it. Or if they truly can't help. I think they owe it to the rest of the family to help them find the resources they need to get this guy the help that he needs.

[00:15:38] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. It, it's kind of messed up for them to just leave this family to defend themselves against their psychotic child.

[00:15:44] Right? But maybe she just didn't include that in her letter. I don't know. As for how the police could just dismiss the recording your brother got and not intervene, like I said, that's insane to me. It's unconscionable. It's the type of thing if something truly horrible happens, everyone's gonna go, what were the cops doing this whole time?

[00:15:59] And news channels are gonna be like, there were numerous threats and even a recording and they're gonna play it and people are gonna be like, what the hell are these cops doing? What? What are they Did these guys actually wanna do any work here? And they're just gonna shrug and point to one another and give some sort of weak ass statement about how mistakes were made and move on.

[00:16:15] But another thing we've learned is that sometimes the police, they're just not supposed to intervene when clear mental health issues are at play. Depending on where you live, your local law enforcement agency, they might have a mobile crisis unit or a mental health unit to deal with issues like this.

[00:16:28] And the main reason is you don't want somebody having a psychotic episode to get arrested or shot when what they need is hospitalization, medication, treatment of some kind. So I would look into what the laws are in your city and state and ask your local PD what resources they have within or adjacent to their agency.

[00:16:47] They might be able to make a referral or put in a phone call to get somebody out to you faster. So in the meantime, my only other idea is can you move your dad to another house, maybe even in with you temporarily, so that you know he's safe while he goes through treatment. I don't know how you do that without the grandson knowing, but if there's a way I would try, maybe you can do it while the grandson is away in the hospital.

[00:17:09] That seems like a good window. Ideally, he would get to stay in his own home where he feels comfortable and his crazy grandson would leave. But if that's not gonna happen, you gotta get creative here. Hell, I'd sooner have my dad taking his chemo pills in in a motel six than living in a nice house with a character from Gothica.

[00:17:27] Anything to avoid the worst possible outcome here. And like you said, you do not wanna wait until something truly awful happens. So sorry this is happening to you and your family. It's a literal nightmare. But what you're learning now unfortunately, is just how flawed and limited the system really is. So you have to work it every way you can and hope that some combination of these agencies and options are gonna result in this guy being taken somewhere where he isn't a risk to everyone and he can get the help he desperately needs.

[00:17:55] I hope they do their job. I hope your dad stays safe and makes it through his treatment. Okay? We're sending him you and your whole family a huge hug. You know what else is straight up crazy. The deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:18:11] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help, you know that feeling of lugging around a backpack full of rocks where each rock symbolizes a different worry while we've all been there feeling weighed down, both emotionally and physically by our stresses, that is where therapy comes in. It's like finally setting down that burdensome backpack.

[00:18:26] For me in therapy, it was really like taking a load off. Doesn't even do it justice. In therapy, you get to safely unpack those rocks. You examine them. You work on strategies to lighten your emotional load. It's not just about getting things off your chest, it's about learning healthier ways to handle life's ups and downs.

[00:18:42] And my therapist gave me some awesome strategies. Some awesome advice that wasn't just like, uh, tell me about your mom. I mean, I got real game plans that I executed and you don't need to have experienced major trauma to benefit from therapy. I wasn't there because I had some serious issue that was unresolved from childhood.

[00:18:58] I was just dealing with crappy people and I didn't know what to do. I think therapy's for anybody bogged down by daily stresses looking to grow personally better help makes this process super convenient with their all online platform. It fits perfectly into any schedule. You answer a few questions, they pair you with a licensed therapist who meets your needs, and if you don't mesh well with your therapist, which you know happens from time to time, you can switch at any time without any extra charges and you don't have to go back to the phone book and look people up and see if they take new patients and then do an appointment and meet with a like, this is just a million times easier.

[00:19:28] Jen Harbinger: Get it off your chest with Better help. Visit better help.com/jordan today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. HEL p.com/jordan.

[00:19:37] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Quilt Mind. So a, a really interesting thing happened the other day, a longtime listener of ours who's also a CEO and founder, I.

[00:19:44] Reached out to me on LinkedIn and he pointed out something that I had not really noticed, which is that I have over 23,000 followers on LinkedIn and I hadn't posted there in months and months and months if, if ever, really, I don't even know. These folks chose to follow me and here I was just not engaging with them at all, which is a huge missed opportunity.

[00:19:59] Now I know I say that I connect with you on LinkedIn, but I don't really like post anything. I kind of just answer my dms there. Turns out though, I'm not alone in this. Many seasoned business professionals have solid LinkedIn followings. They built over, over a decade years at least, but just like me, they rarely post.

[00:20:14] And the reason is usually look, lack of time, not sure what to write about. Fear is coming off too salesy. There's all kinds of lunatics on LinkedIn. There's a whole subreddit for LinkedIn lunatics. Meanwhile, while we're snooze and there are tons of people out there growing their audiences, dominating their niches, connecting with a lot of interesting people, and LinkedIn has a billion global users and they're all sort of verified as real people more or less.

[00:20:33] There's not a whole lot of like crazy conspiracy people on there. I mean growing, but you know, not the segment that's kind of dominating. Dove. My friend who runs this offered me to try out his service called Quilt Mind. Their mission is to make executives essentially, well-known slash famous on LinkedIn with just two hours of your time each month.

[00:20:50] They help you brainstorm topics that will truly benefit your audience. They'll convert your verbal interviews like stuff for your show or whatever content you're creating into a series of professionally written posts. And they manage all the posting and analytics for you. And the best part is all the content is authentically yours.

[00:21:04] Your words, your ideas, quilt mind just handles the heavy lifting so you're not posting like cheesy, inspirational quotes like you've seen those people on LinkedIn. It's awful. I decided to give Quilt Mind a try over the next few months on LinkedIn. You can follow my journey there. I a lot of you already are.

[00:21:17] For me, success on LinkedIn would mean inspiring the business community with insights from our guests, expanding our audience a little bit, connecting with potential show sponsors and advertisers. I hope it'll open up more doors for company executives to connect with me for all kinds of business opportunities.

[00:21:31] So if you like what you see from me on LinkedIn, feel free to shoot them or me an email. Uh, you can hit them at Jordan, audience@quiltmind.com. I'm also happy to refer youJordan@jordanarbinger.com, and they can get you started on your own LinkedIn campaign. I'm really digging what I'm seeing so far and I think this is a great tool for business professionals.

[00:21:47] Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers does keep us going. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all in one searchable, clickable place. Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Alright, back to feedback Friday.

[00:22:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 34-year-old woman from California and I was raised in a Christian homeschool cult. My mother believed we should be shut away and only see other people at church. I. She wanted to protect us from the horrors of the outside world, such as evolution, sexuality, and child molesters.

[00:22:26] Oh, all three being equally horrible. Of course. Yeah. Seriously, child molesters and evolution. Those are twin evils for sure. So she goes on. In all honesty, one of those three was a true concern, but my mom did not have bothered as I was subjected to two uncles who couldn't keep their hands to themselves or keep me outta their fantasies, along with a family, quote unquote friend who had trouble respecting my most intimate privacy with his camera.

[00:22:53] My mother denies all of this. Of course, she set up her own school for me and my brothers, and didn't go through any organization. I asked if that was legal and she said it was. I graduated and pushed her to give me my diploma because she wasn't gonna get around to that. She didn't want me to go to college.

[00:23:09] Instead, she found a trade school so I could get a minimum wage job with a certificate while I waited for a wealthy Christian man to find me and marry me. She prayed for me to meet Tim Tebow, but when that didn't happen, she tried to get me to meet and marry her dentist. I wait for it declined. I eventually met and married my husband against her wishes.

[00:23:31] After a few years, I got into therapy and decided to cut off my family. After all of the trauma and abuse, my husband shares a similar backstory and we struggle financially. He doesn't have much in the way of college either, so we decided to try and get me into a college and get a better job to help our financial situation.

[00:23:49] I. I approached one that was offering the program I was looking for, but they told me I needed my high school transcripts. When they searched for my mother's independent homeschool, they found that it didn't exist. Surprise, surprise. I contacted my mother for my transcripts and after a lot of spinning her wheels and backpedaling, she finally sent me a Microsoft Word document with my name and grades typed out like a grocery store list, something I could have done a better job at.

[00:24:14] In other words, my transcripts don't exist because they never existed. Am I straight up outta luck here? Are there ways to get around not having transcripts? Are there any legal actions I can take against my mother for screwing me over? Signed trying to chase a degree when my mother cut me off at the knees.

[00:24:32] Jordan Harbinger: Huh? So infuriating. What a frustrating situation your mom has put you in. I don't know how effective her high school was. I put that in quotes, air quotes. Maybe it was six hours of reading the Bible and learning how to carry the one or whatever for years. But you can clearly write a letter and you sound like a smart, thoughtful person.

[00:24:49] So I'm sure you're more than qualified to attend college. So about the transcripts problem, you have a few options here. Your first option is you go get your high school diploma as an adult, or you go get your GED certificate, which is basically the high school equivalency diploma. Now, I'm guessing you don't wanna do adult high school because you don't wanna spend a lot of time.

[00:25:08] I completely understand that. Although if you do, you can use that credential to apply to any accredited college. The GED of course, is a lot faster. It's a couple months of studying either on your own through a school or prep course. If you even need to study for it, you might not. And once you pass it, the state will send you a certificate showing you have the same knowledge as a high school graduate, and then you can use that to apply to colleges.

[00:25:29] If you go the GED route, you have to submit official scores with your college application. Apparently, some schools have a score cutoff for admission. Even if you don't meet the cutoff though, you might still receive conditional admission, which means you gotta take classes, maintain good grades for a certain period of time, maybe take some remedial courses, not the biggest deal, not some sort of high bar.

[00:25:49] Second option. You can look for colleges that don't require a high school diploma transcripts or A GED. Apparently these exist. I don't know if they're the best schools, but they do exist. Just be careful of that whole for-profit nonsense. I. You might have to talk to an admissions officer or take some kind of assessment to make sure you can like read and write and do basic math and all that.

[00:26:10] The good news is in California, you only need to be 18 years or older to attend a community college. And apparently a high school diploma is just not required. But you might have to take remedial courses offered by the college, which isn't gonna be that bad. I mean, God knows if I had to go back to college now, I would certainly be in trigonometry again or whatever it is.

[00:26:27] So no shame in that game. And certain majors like engineering, of course, they do require a GED before you can transfer to a four year university. So I don't know what you're aiming at. If you're gonna become a bridge builder, you might need a little bit more, but you can major in something else and sidestep that requirement completely.

[00:26:43] Also, some colleges that don't require a high school diploma allow you to earn college credit as you prepare for the GED test, but then the school might limit which courses you can take at least at first. Option number three. You attend a trade school, which I'm a huge fan of. Now I know this might not be the route you wanna go after your mom pushed you into a trade school, but hear me out.

[00:27:04] Trade schools, vocational schools, studying to become like a mechanic or an office manager or electrician, HVAC tech, they tend to focus on practical skills, career development, hands-on learning, and a lot of them only take a year or so to complete. The reason I'm a big fan of trade schools is they put you on a track and they get you working as opposed to say majoring in anthropology and then floundering for five years while you convince somebody to give you a shot at an entry level position.

[00:27:30] And people in trades make bank like, I don't know where this whole like stay in school or you're gonna end up a plumber. Nonsense comes from. But these guys are making six figures or more. They might have multiple people working under them. I mean, it's a really good business. They're never running outta work.

[00:27:45] It's crazy how busy these people are, especially out here in California. So for trade schools, you'll usually need a high school diploma or a GED certificate to enroll, but you might be able to find a trade school that doesn't require either of those things. There are even some that will help you prepare to pass the GED exam, which is cool 'cause of course they want you to enroll in their school.

[00:28:05] And if that's the requirement, then there you go. I think those are promising. If I'm, I'm rooting for option number three as you can't, if you can't tell,

[00:28:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: but hey, listen, no matter what kind of school you go to, I would definitely try talking to an admissions officer or an academic advisor, or really anybody in a position of power at these schools and tell them your story.

[00:28:22] I mean, you would be amazed what becomes possible if you get one of these people on your side. I'm pretty sure you're not the first person they've met who doesn't have transcripts or a diploma for whatever reason. If they like you, if they're rooting for you, they might help you navigate the system. They could tell you, Hey, this is exactly what you have to do.

[00:28:38] You check this box, you take this remedial course, you take this assessment. I'm gonna talk to the dean. We're gonna get you in whatever. I mean, they could just like cut through all the red tape and make an exception to get you in there. No problem. Do not underestimate the power of finding the human beings behind these policies.

[00:28:53] So that's the practical stuff about getting around the transcripts problem. So I assume you're talking about suing your mom, right? Like trying to get damages for this? Or maybe you just meant through the courts compelling her to make you a transcript. I'm not sure. First of all, I'm not sure how much of a case you would have.

[00:29:08] Ultimately, it's unclear whether your mother actually defrauded you. According to our research. She almost certainly broke the homeschool regulations and you could report her to the Department of Education if you wanted to. But that's not gonna do much at this point. Also, if your mom doesn't have a lot of money to pay up, then there's really no point.

[00:29:25] I mean, she, she might be judgment proof. I would ask yourself whether suing your mom is really in your best interest. I think that you are furious at her, understandably so, not just for the homeschooling thing, but for the horrifying abuse that she failed to protect you from possibly even enabled. And you're looking for any way to even the scales, but what you really want is to restart your education and start building your future.

[00:29:52] Trust me, that is a much better use of your energy than trying to get back at your mom for what she did. Although I gotta say, I totally understand the impulse.

[00:30:00] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, me too. And I completely agree. Gabe, we also shared your story with Dr. Steven Hassan, licensed mental health counselor, author of Freedom of Mind and Combating Cult Mind Control.

[00:30:10] Our resident called Expert around here, and Dr. Hassan reminded us about a book called Educated by Tara Westover. It's a memoir written by a woman who escaped her survivalist family in Idaho and ended up studying at Harvard and Cambridge. She has an amazing story, very inspiring. We'll link to that in the show notes for you.

[00:30:28] Dr. Hassan also pointed out that there are accredited colleges and master's programs that accept life experience from candidates if they have basic writing and reading skills. In his view between Khan Academy, Thinkific, all these incredible online course websites out there, people can get all the education they need.

[00:30:44] And if you have a mind for coding tech, ai, that whole world, there are free online courses from Google and Microsoft. In fact, we've had listeners write in saying they've gotten jobs or freelance work after studying on their own, which is incredible. And Dr. Haan also wanted you to know that there are many, many homeschooled ex evangelicals out there, and a lot of 'em are incredibly accomplished.

[00:31:05] And he said, you can and should reach out to some of them, share your story, see if they have any advice. He also pointed us to an interview he did with a woman who left this background who went on to become a Russian scholar. We'll link to that in the show notes for you as well. Again, I am very sorry that your kooky mom put you in this situation.

[00:31:23] It sucks, and unfortunately, it's, it's very common with people who come from backgrounds like yours and your anger is totally appropriate in my opinion, but from where I'm sitting, the best way to work through that anger is to continue to process it with your husband in therapy and to just channel it into getting the education you deserve and building a terrific life.

[00:31:42] And I gotta say, your letter affected me in a way I didn't really expect. It was, it was kind of hard for me to get through this response because your, your mother is, is a piece of work and the abuse you endured in her home was horrible. Just to be thought of as somebody who's not important enough to educate nor protect from predators.

[00:32:02] It's unforgivable. It's just so wrong. But honestly, this is not like, oh, my mom was religious. This is mental illness too. Right? It's like I'm praying to Jesus for you to marry Tim Tebow delusional, and meanwhile, she doesn't let you outta the house unless it's to go to church. Like, how are you gonna meet Tim Tebow?

[00:32:18] It's literal insanity. And then, oh, I don't want child molesters around you, but your two uncles who are handsy and then the other guy is taking pictures of you in the bathtub. Like, oh, well we, that's fine. They're men of God. I mean, it's just actual malice at that point. You're just, she was nuts. And I know you feel behind, but for somebody who grew up with a crazy mom hamstringing you at every chance she got, I think you're doing great.

[00:32:39] I. If you don't let the anger paralyze you or drag you down, I know you'll be great. That's another reason why I'm like, don't bother suing your mom. You're gonna be locked up with her in this nonsense. Go through everything. Relive everything again. No, you cut her off. Never talk to her again. She's dead to you if you want.

[00:32:54] That's it. Don't dredge this up while paying a lawyer by the hour. That's my advice. We're rooting for you, my friend. Good luck. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines that makes our job easier. If your sibling is obsessed with a specific type of farm animal, I won't do it this week.

[00:33:12] Your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your mother was targeted by a violent psychopath for years because of a change in your state's bail laws. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:33:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, what's next? Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I work at a major restaurant chain as an assistant manager and have struggled a lot with my manager. He would come storming out of his office to scream at coworkers for things that didn't meet his expectations, like taking the trash bag out of the trash can where customers could see you instead of doing it in the back.

[00:33:49] His outbursts would be public and usually single, a specific person out. He'd get into screaming matches with other employees right in front of customers. He also wasn't great at his job leaving for hours to go get something that we needed only to come back with nothing. We had customer complaints and even reviews, talking about how badly he would treat his employees.

[00:34:10] He's chased away many customers and employees from ever coming back. There were even rumors of people seeing him drinking in his car while on the clock.

[00:34:18] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. So this dude is just a hot mess of garbage. Clearly unstable, possibly has an addiction. Sure sounds like it. This is sad. But this guy should not be anywhere near customers or employees for that matter.

[00:34:31] Is the irony not lost on this guy that he's screaming. Don't take the garbage out in front of the customers as he shoots whiskey Tinged s slobber globs out of his mouth in front of 18 people waiting in line to order the A Rose Puyo.

[00:34:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Come on. Oh man. Throughout all of this, though, I stayed cordial with him.

[00:34:49] I was never a target of his outbursts. He would even buy me lunch, but he also might've just done that to get back at other people on shifts because he would only ask me what I wanted and nobody else. Oh God.

[00:35:01] Jordan Harbinger: This next level

[00:35:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: petty dude. It's like such a petty move. Yeah. Ugh. I even went out to have drinks with him a few times to avoid losing my job or becoming a target of his rage.

[00:35:10] Interesting. Oh God.

[00:35:12] Jordan Harbinger: Hey, wanna go get a drink? Yeah. I should just step into the backseat of my Toyota Camry. There's a bottle sandwich between the seats.

[00:35:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. It's my favorite bar. It's uh, it's called Four Wheel Drive. Step on it. Oh God. Nice. Then recently he yelled at an employee and followed them into the back room loud enough to make customers worried for the employee's safety, and he was fired.

[00:35:31] Since then, he's continued to text me and tell me how wrong they were to fire him and how he was the one who kept our store afloat. I've been evasive, but still friendly. Now that he's not my manager, I'd very much like to not talk to him anymore, but I also don't want to be rude. I also know that he doesn't really have many other people in his life, and I have seen some good sides of him.

[00:35:53] Do I just ghost him? Do I tell them that I'm just not down with our friendship? Do I tell him that he's kind of an ass and I'm not about that. Signed, clocking out for the last time. By the way, four wheel drive sounds like a gay bar. It does sound like, it sounds like one of those places in West Hollywood.

[00:36:08] You go after the night is coming to a close, you're like, where do we go next?

[00:36:12] Jordan Harbinger: Four wheel drive's. Always open, always popping. Right

[00:36:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: now it's always open. Always popping. Yeah. Yeah. And the, and you know, the music is lit at that place too. A lot of Madonna.

[00:36:20] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-Hmm. Well, your, your company was absolutely right to fire this guy, and I hear you that he had some good sides, and I appreciate that you appreciate those aspects of him.

[00:36:28] You strike me as a pretty thoughtful, sensitive person. The fact that you're even worrying about hurting this guy's feelings after what he did to all of you, it's very kind. In fact, it's maybe a little too kind. So look, given what this guy pulled, I don't think you owe him anything. Even if he treated you decently, that just means he didn't have a vendetta against you at that particular time, for some reason.

[00:36:48] And even buying you lunch, you even said that might have been tainted with some ulterior motive, some dumb petty way of showing other employees that he specifically didn't like them. And I'm generally not a fan of ghosting, but this is a case where I just wouldn't blame you if you did because A, you don't know this guy much, if anything.

[00:37:06] B, it doesn't sound like he's using this as an opportunity to look at his behavior and grow. He's texting you to vent and throw himself a pity party and talk about how he was the best thing to happen to El Poeo Loco or wherever you work. And C, I'm actually a little worried about this guy. He sounds volatile and vindictive.

[00:37:26] He probably knows where you live 'cause he handled your paperwork. So the less contact you have with this guy, the better. When you work together, you had good reasons to be diplomatic. Now you don't. And he is showing his true colors and there's just no reason to be close with somebody like this. I. Now if you really wanted to, you could tell him, Hey, look Jerry, I know losing your job was a big blow and I'm sorry it happened.

[00:37:49] But you know, looking back, I have some serious concerns about your behavior as a manager. A lot of it was not okay. And if I were you, I would ask yourself why you handled things the way you did so that the same thing doesn't happen at your next job. I can't be here to talk about work anymore and I hope you land on your feet.

[00:38:05] I wish you all the best you can leave it at that. But honestly, I do not have high hopes that Jerry's gonna be able to take that in or that he's gonna respond well to that. In fact, I think he might respond very poorly, but if you don't feel right, ghosting him, that would be one way to put the relationship to bed in a respectful way that ends on the best possible note potentially.

[00:38:25] Just know that he's probably gonna fire back at you. Like, what do you mean serious concerns? You think my behavior was the problem you tried being a manager, you little jerk, you know, the typical narcissistic defensive response. My advice to you is do not engage. Leave it there. You deliver the message, and that's that.

[00:38:41] I would block the guy. Honestly, I, I don't think you need to say anything about not being down with friendship or whatever, that he's an ass. Don't worry about proving your point or evening the scales. Just focus on ending the relationship. That's all that matters. Let those texts turn green, son. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

[00:38:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: And if you ever find yourself working for somebody like this in the future, it might be worth asking yourself if you are playing along with their BS more than you have to. If you see a boss treating people this way, even if they're not treating you this way, I think you say something to them directly.

[00:39:14] You give them some feedback. You say, Hey, this isn't right. I don't like what's happening here. I think we need to talk about this. And give them a chance to change or report them to the higher ups immediately. Because like Jordan said, a person this abusive, this unstable should not be in a position of any authority, especially in the restaurant industry of all places.

[00:39:32] I know you had some good reasons to play nice and keep this guy on your side. I get it. But I also wonder if you were trying to stay outta trouble and maybe even being kind of overly accommodating to this guy.

[00:39:43] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Which again, he might still be doing just by worrying so much about this guy's feelings after all this went down.

[00:39:49] Right? Again, that empathy is a virtue, but it can also tip over into, you know, caretaking avoidance. So again, honestly, ghosting might be the move here and maybe you split the difference. Do it gradually. Respond to him with shorter and shorter text for a week or two, and then not at all transition more smoothly, but you're already going above and beyond just by considering this guy's feelings.

[00:40:10] So move on.org. My dude, good riddance to this guy. You know what you're gonna want in the break room besides a can of pepper spray, apparently the products and services that support this show, we'll be right back.

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[00:41:57] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is sponsored in part by going West True Crime Podcast. With all the true crime podcasts out there, it can be tough to find the one that is lighthearted and empathetic, but is hosted by people who are interesting to listen to and know how to tell A story going West, hosted by Daphne and Heath, they released two episodes every single week, unsolved and unsolved, missing and murder cases.

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[00:43:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 43-year-old Taiwanese immigrant who came to the US when I was five, and my relationship with my mother has always been rocky.

[00:43:41] It started in grade school when she disapproved of my friends, typical cultural and generational clashes. When I was 12, she and my father divorced. Then at age 16, she found a letter I'd written that implied I was on my dad's side in the divorce and she kicked me out of the house.

[00:43:58] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, at 16. Geez. That's rough.

[00:44:00] I am really sorry to hear that.

[00:44:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: My mother is the one a lot of my family members go to for advice because she's so understanding and easy to talk to. But for me it was the opposite. Anytime we'd argue, she would tell me that a Chinese fortune teller told her that she and her children aren't connected spiritually in this life or any life thereafter.

[00:44:21] So if we don't have a good relationship. That's just the way things are destined to be.

[00:44:26] Jordan Harbinger: That is so infuriating. She's like, yeah, some hocus pocus bullshitter told me that we aren't connected in this life, whatever that means. So I don't have to try.

[00:44:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. But also by believing that she's confirming the result.

[00:44:36] Jordan Harbinger: Well, exactly. I, I mean, even if this fortune teller is right, which, I mean, I don't go in for that stuff whatsoever, but if, let's say that she's magically right. Somehow because that exists, then she's only Right. Because her mom is like this. Right. So what does this, what does the fortune

[00:44:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: tell her?

[00:44:51] Jordan Harbinger: Even prove

[00:44:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: nothing.

[00:44:52] Exactly. If I heard that as a parent, I would either go, huh, okay, maybe we're not connected spiritually because of something I did, or I'm not doing. Or, or maybe I would say, maybe I should try to change this fortune because it's incredibly sad.

[00:45:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. The fact that she's pointing to this fortune teller whenever they argue, it tells me she just does.

[00:45:09] She wanted permission to not have to listen nor work on her relationships with her family, or change in any way. It's so lame. And disappointing. And it's just clearly the fortune teller also telling her what she wants to hear. Right. Which is also classic fortune teller nonsense. That's also

[00:45:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: possible.

[00:45:24] Jordan Harbinger: It's

[00:45:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: also very hurtful. Mm-Hmm. But yeah, I mean, I, I get the sense that her mom isn't great with relationships in general. Hmm. Surprise.

[00:45:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I don't know. Was it the divorce or the fact that she kicked her kids out of the house at age 16? What, what? What gives it away? All of the above.

[00:45:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she goes on in my thirties, I married a toxic man and ended up a divorcee with a young son.

[00:45:45] My mother supported me through my emotional and financial hardship, for example, by paying my attorney's fees.

[00:45:51] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm, okay. Well, that's something that was generous of her.

[00:45:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then in my late thirties, I married a man who's the opposite of my ex-husband. He's loving, loyal, and completely devoted to me and my son.

[00:46:03] The problem is my mother never approved of him. Oh, what

[00:46:06] Jordan Harbinger: a surprise. What a shocker.

[00:46:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: She also made a fleeting comment early on about how I make more money than him, which isn't true, so I should be careful not to be taken advantage of. When I'd ask why she disliked him, she would only say, I just don't, my life's been great for eight years now, and I can't think of why she won't accept my husband after all this time.

[00:46:27] Jordan Harbinger: Well, look, I don't know either, but when the mom who kicks you out of the house at 16 years old for not siding with her in every way. Who doesn't seem interested in having a meaningful relationship with her own daughter. When a parent like that doesn't like your amazing partner, I mean, what? What could be a stronger endorsement of this guy?

[00:46:45] Put a ring on that guy. That's what that means.

[00:46:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: And by the way, good on you for getting outta that marriage and choosing somebody so different this time around. That says a lot about you. That is a big accomplishment on your part, especially having grown up with a mother who treated you this way.

[00:46:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, I have a theory, and I'm reaching a little here, but I think her mom might feel a little uneasy or even threatened by the way her husband treats her daughter because it's so different from how she treated her own daughter.

[00:47:10] Ah. And how she was probably treated in her own marriage. Right.

[00:47:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: That makes sense. She might even be envious on some level, definitely. Of their relationship or, you know, she might just be biased against him for some other reason. We don't know, like he's American or he doesn't bow down to her in every single way.

[00:47:24] Who knows?

[00:47:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Whatever it is. What this mean old lady thinks of your amazing husband beyond irrelevant at this point, in my view.

[00:47:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: For a period of time, my son and I visited my mother without my husband because it was clear that he was persona non grata. It broke my heart each time we left him behind for brunch or dinner, but my husband assured me he was okay.

[00:47:43] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, I'm sure he was fine. I don't know too many guys who are gonna be that upset that they get to spend their Sunday morning playing Xbox instead of awkwardly eating a fricking frittata with their trash talking mother-in-Law. No, he was fine. He meant that

[00:47:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: then one day our water heater broke and my mother said that only my son and I could come over for a hot shower.

[00:48:07] Oh God, that was the last straw. I presented her with an all of us or none of us stance, and was shocked when she called my bluff. She iced us out. Even my son. Oh man,

[00:48:19] Jordan Harbinger: that's really sad. Look, her loss truly way more than yours, if I'm being honest, from the outside looking in. But that's still really hurtful, and I'm sorry she did that.

[00:48:28] But this lady is cold. She's damaged.

[00:48:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Seriously colder than the showers they took that week. Yes, I would say yes. So she goes on, it's been almost four years, and my son has been asking, why don't we see her talk to grandma anymore? I've tried my best to provide age appropriate responses while preserving her.

[00:48:44] Good name. Mm. My son recently got a phone and has called and FaceTimed his grandmother. She answers, but after a minute or two of pleasantries, she rushes to end the call. I'm heartbroken for my son and this position that I've put him in. Uh, let's be clear about this. Yeah. Uh, you were not the only person who put him in this position.

[00:49:03] Your mom put you guys in this position and continues to do that by treating you guys this way. As far as I'm concerned, you press the issue by standing up for your husband. Yes. But she decided to ice you guys out.

[00:49:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. No, this is not on our friend here. I mean, could she have put her own needs aside and tolerated her mom's BS for the sake of her son?

[00:49:21] Okay, fine. But at what cost? You know, there's only so much you can take. By the way, I am not recommending that she do that. I think she did nothing wrong. That's where I'm at with this.

[00:49:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: My older brother keeps encouraging me to apologize to her because she's stubborn and will never change. But no, in my mind, I don't have anything to apologize for.

[00:49:38] Jordan Harbinger: Correct. The reason she's like, this is because, in part because everyone kowtows to her nonsense and has done so her entire life. Shame on your brother for enabling her and encouraging you to do the same at the expense of your own mental health insanity. That is ridiculous.

[00:49:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: It reminds me of that letter we took a few weeks back, Jordan, I'm trying to remember the details, but wasn't it like, um, the woman writing in had a really strained relationship with her father?

[00:50:04] Oh, he said when they were growing up, he was like, I don't need to be close with her. You, you, you just Right. You can be close with your mom. And he like made fun of her interests and Yeah. But then later in life he was struggling and her brother was treating the dad really well and helping him out and getting him seen by doctors and he was like trying to get everybody to get along again.

[00:50:21] But the reality was that they had different parents. Yes. I feel like something similar is happening here. It happens all the time.

[00:50:27] Jordan Harbinger: Let me shed some cultural wisdom, uh, upon the people here. This is a Taiwanese family, right? Chinese Taiwanese family in China. They do this. It's a cultural thing. China, the older brother is almost always the golden child.

[00:50:40] So I don't know if her older brother is the older brother, but boys in general are f favored like crazy. That's not a modern one child policy thing. That's just a been since the dawn of time. So it is very possible that older brother was spoiled, got everything he wanted, was mommy's little darling. And she was always the Cinderella figure in the family and treated like crap.

[00:51:02] And so he's like, I don't understand why you don't like mom. Sure she's set in her ways, but it's like, bro, she kicked me out and abused me, treated me like crap. And he's like, what are you talking about? 'cause he always got everything he wanted and never had to pay attention to anybody else. And is almost handicapped emotionally when it comes to seeing this because he's never had to to want for anything.

[00:51:20] They had different mothers that

[00:51:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: would explain so much right about this situation. So she goes on. What am I missing here? Nothing.

[00:51:29] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, the fact that you have a spine and nobody else in your life seems to have a spine and your mother can't handle it, I think that's what you're missing. Your, your mother can't handle it.

[00:51:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Did I commit the worst sin possible with my all of us or none of us approach? Should I just resign myself to the fact that my mother won't be in our lives and cross my fingers that one day my son will understand? Signed feeling my guilt. Go sky high and struggling to say bye-Bye to this Coldhearted nine nine.

[00:51:57] Hmm. This

[00:51:58] Jordan Harbinger: is a sad situation, the way that parents go out of their way to hurt their children the way they create unnecessary drama. It continues to blow my mind. So you can already tell how I feel here. I haven't exactly been reserved in this episode of this question especially, but I'm gonna be very direct with you.

[00:52:15] It sounds like your relationship with your mom has been troubled from the very start, and the causes of that are possibly very complex. There's culture at play here. There's a generational thing, there's personality. I think the personality piece is probably the biggest, specifically her personality. Okay.

[00:52:31] But her personality is obviously interacting with yours. You guys sound very different, and that's a tough situation all around, especially with a parent who can't listen, won't listen, won't empathize with somebody who's different from her. At some point with a parent like this, I do think it's important to go on record and say, Hey, this is not cool.

[00:52:48] It's unnecessary. I'm not going to tolerate this anymore. Now, as you have found out, that doesn't mean they are gonna change. But sometimes it's important to say that for us to maintain our integrity, to be authentic, to stand up for what's right, you're now experiencing the pain of your mom digging her heels in and icing you guys out, and I feel that that's a reflection of her much more than the validity of your stance.

[00:53:12] Think about it. She's doing this to your son. What did he do? Nothing. That means your mom is willing to punish her own grandson for some perceived slight by you. That's insane. That's insane. None of that is on you. The upside here is you're not playing along with her objectively hurtful behavior. You're not compromising yourself.

[00:53:30] You're not putting your husband in a painful spot. The downside is your son doesn't get to see his grandmother, which really sucks, and you feel this guilt, which is largely the product of this very old dynamic with your mom. But no, you did not commit the worst sin possible for standing up for yourself and your husband.

[00:53:47] There are way worse things you could have done, and I have a whole list that I would've loved, that I would love to share with you, but are probably gonna cause more harm than good. There's many more aggressive ways you could've responded. Like Gabe said, you didn't put your son in this position unilaterally.

[00:54:00] You didn't invent a problem when there wasn't one. Your mom is a difficult person, and you stood up to her and she decided to pull away because if there's one thing that narcissists cannot stand, it's somebody drawing boundaries and enforcing them. She bears minimum, at minimum half the responsibility for this outcome, if not more, A lot more.

[00:54:18] I'm being diplomatic here. I personally think this is 100% your mom's fault based on your letter.

[00:54:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, for sure. I'm having the same reaction now, like you said. Was there another option here? Sure, you could have tolerated her, you could have placated her for the sake of your son, but that doesn't mean it was the right decision.

[00:54:36] Also, we don't know exactly how you showed up in these conversations. You know, maybe you were a little bit hurtful sometimes too. Maybe you didn't always try to hear your mom out. I gotta say, it doesn't sound that way, and I'm not sure how you're supposed to really listen and empathize with a woman who can't even articulate her opinions.

[00:54:54] Like when she says, I don't like your husband and I can't tell you why, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that there are two people in this relationship. But again, if you kept things on an even keel with your mom, how would that have continued to impact you? How would that do right by your husband?

[00:55:08] I'm sorry to say this because it sounds so harsh, but given the facts here. I'm not convinced that protecting your son's relationship with his grandmother is more important than protecting your whole family from her.

[00:55:19] Jordan Harbinger: I'm with you a hundred percent. Hey, my heart breaks for this little kid who's sad and confused about why he can't see his grandmother anymore, but it's part of life, and with his mom's help, he can survive that.

[00:55:29] But yeah, not sure that's worth putting up with a mom who's so rigid and unfeel. She won't even let her grandson's father take a 10 minute shower at her house. Seriously, I mean, that detail tells me everything I need to know about this lady. So yes, sadly, I do think you might have to resign yourself to the fact that your mother won't be in your lives.

[00:55:48] You can still be civil, you can still be minimally respectful. You don't have to respond to her decision with more cruelty. You don't need to punish her the way she's done with you. If her water heater ever breaks, I'd probably let her shower at your house. If she's in trouble, you help her out with good boundaries.

[00:56:03] You can still hold out some hope that she will one day wake up and realize the error of her ways. Who knows? Maybe she'll go through a crisis and realize she's driven away the most important people in her life. Or she'll talk to another nonsense tarot card reader who's like, Hey, I, I pulled the, uh, your kind of an asshole card.

[00:56:19] You might wanna look at that. And she'll try to patch things up. Or in a year, she'll realize how much she misses her grandson and how much she's screwed everything up. It's all possible, but man, I would keep my expectations low.

[00:56:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. So would I, as for your son, yes, of course he's gonna understand one day.

[00:56:35] This isn't just a matter of chance. I like that you're being thoughtful about what he can handle at his age. You know, you're not rushing to disparage his grandmother again, that says so much about you.

[00:56:45] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's another detail that tells me that she, you are nothing like your mom, and you probably did little or nothing to actually drive her away.

[00:56:52] This is not on you. You know, it makes me kind of sad she got kicked outta the house so early that she's probably been blaming herself for this her whole life. She's never had that sort of adjusted wake up call where it's like, Hey, it's unreasonable to kick your kid out at that age because of the a slight like this.

[00:57:09] No one picked

[00:57:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: her up and told her that. Right. Well, she's carrying around a lot of guilt and allegiance Yes. To his mother, despite their conflict. And that's part of what she's coming to terms with. Right. But as your son gets older, I would share more details with him about his grandmother just so he can understand why you're not very close anymore.

[00:57:25] And I would keep reassuring him that none of this is his fault and that it's okay to be sad. And I would just surround him with as much love as you can, which I'm sure you're already doing. And maybe you tell him, look, it's a little hard for us to see Grandma right now. She's not gonna talking for a long time on the phone, but I know she loves you.

[00:57:41] And as he gets older, you can tell him. I know it's really sad that we don't see her very much, but grandma's not the easiest person to talk to. You know, she and I don't always agree on everything. She doesn't like to visit me very much as he comes to understand this stuff better. You can work up to telling him about your husband and your childhood, all of that, when the time is right, but take it in stages for now.

[00:58:00] At his age, I would just make it about him and try to help him not internalize his grandmother's rejection. He has to know that there's nothing wrong with him. This is just the way grandma is

[00:58:10] Jordan Harbinger: exactly, which is a hard message to articulate for a six, seven, 8-year-old child. But I agree that's what he needs to understand.

[00:58:18] And you can't change your mom or repair your relationship overnight or completely protect your son from the difficult feelings that his grandmother's decision is bringing up. But what you can do is understand your boundaries, your needs, your values, which you did by standing up to your mom, which I think was an important milestone, and be as loving and available to your son as possible.

[00:58:37] And perhaps most importantly, continue taking care of yourself. You had a difficult childhood in many ways. This is a very tough mother to have, and part of your process is healing from that as well. Sending you, your husband and your son a big hug. And I hope that the, uh, new water heater came with a warranty.

[00:58:54] Y'all deserve all the hot showers. Okay, next up.

[00:58:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I have dyslexia in school. I was regularly confronted by my teachers and one of them said I wouldn't graduate. They made me read in front of the class and created other situations that made me feel terrible and stupid. As for my parents, I always had the feeling that they were somewhat ashamed of it, and I was ashamed of it as well for a long time.

[00:59:18] But today I have a good high school diploma and two bachelor's degrees. I. I'm currently doing my master of science and I've been offered a PhD position at a renowned research center.

[00:59:29] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Talk about overcompensating. All right, we get it. You're smart now. I'm, you're killing it, my friend. Can we just take a second to appreciate how impressive.

[00:59:38] So cool. This really is, you're dyslexic. You're teachers growing up told you you were never going to even amount to anything. You're not gonna graduate, and now you're about to become a doctor. Talk about a great old academic middle finger to those who didn't believe in you. I love

[00:59:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: it. Absolutely incredible.

[00:59:53] Yeah, you should be very proud. So she goes on. Sure. My path took longer. I'm 31 now, and I had to work hard at times, but it was definitely doable. And now looking back, I think I can be even prouder of myself knowing that I managed to do it all despite being dyslexic.

[01:00:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. Yeah. You should also, by the way, 31, not that old for somebody getting a PhD.

[01:00:15] Are you kidding? Isn't that right on schedule? Probably just about, even if that were late, the fact that you put in the work that you stuck with this journey even when it was hard. That's the accomplishment. The timeline is secondary. It's almost irrelevant in my opinion. I'm loving this letter, Gabe. Carry on.

[01:00:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: I want children dealing with dyslexia and their parents to know that they shouldn't be so stressed and they certainly shouldn't be ashamed. A few things I've learned over the years, it's important to get an official diagnosis so that disadvantages can be compensated for in school and university.

[01:00:44] Dyslexia is often coupled with an anxiety disorder connected to a fear of failure, and you should avoid putting people with dyslexia in situations where they have to read out loud or write something on the board under stress like in front of a group. Instead, you should give them the opportunity to enjoy reading and writing without expecting them to get it perfect.

[01:01:05] I still can't do it perfectly, and it doesn't matter at all. After all, nobody would expect people in wheelchairs to be able to climb stairs.

[01:01:12] Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's a good point. I've never thought about it that way, but it's a great point. Also, look, we got audio books, we have podcasts. There's lots of ways to learn these days.

[01:01:20] I'm not dyslexic, but reading stuff was always hard for me. I just couldn't maintain attention. I was later diagnosed with A DHD and then Medicaid, and then stop taking the medication because I don't need it to pay at. Paying attention to this job is easy. Reading 400 pages of legal briefs written in old English is is not easy.

[01:01:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, you're onto something. People with dyslexia should also learn early on to be honest and stand up for themselves. I used to try to hide my dyslexia, but today, if a professor asks me to read something to the group or write something on the board in front of the class, I say, I'm sorry, but I have dyslexia and don't feel comfortable doing that right now.

[01:01:56] Now, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't work on yourself and face your fears, but you should create the space you need to do something within your capabilities,

[01:02:04] Jordan Harbinger: right? That's an important balance to strike even for people without a disability.

[01:02:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, many people with dyslexia have unexpected talents. I.

[01:02:12] It was quite easy for me to learn Chinese, for example, because I can memorize pictures much better than many other people. And the characters are more similar to pictures than letters.

[01:02:21] Jordan Harbinger: That is so interesting. That makes sense. I didn't know that that would be easier for someone with dyslexia. I've been studying Chinese for a long time now, well over a decade.

[01:02:30] So much of it is just memorizing new characters. In fact, the biggest challenge with Chinese is expanding your vocabulary is very difficult. So it's awesome that this disability in one area is actually a superpower in another area, and I would not have expected it to be Mandarin Chinese or Chinese in general.

[01:02:46] Kind of starting to wish I had a a little tinge of the dyslexia now because when I do my flashcards I'm like, I've seen this one 400 times and I still can't get it. And it's like the word if or something, it's just so frustrating.

[01:02:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: So my advice to people with dyslexia is to treat it as an opportunity to focus on what you're good at.

[01:03:03] You can achieve anything you want even with this disability. I just wanted to share this letter because I know that it would've helped the young, insecure version of myself many years ago. I wish you all the best and the strength to shape your life the way you want it. Signed celebrating the feasibility of working with a disability even when it feels like a liability.

[01:03:23] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. This is awesome. Thank you for taking the time to share all this, and again, congrats on everything you've accomplished, the remarkable person you've become. I can only imagine how daunting it must be to learn in a conventional way with dyslexia. That's aside from the stress and anxiety of being made to read in public and all that stuff like that, not being able to read easily, that is a very real obstacle.

[01:03:44] So much of the knowledge out there, how we engage with the world is through written language. So this must just be a massive challenge, especially for somebody studying in an academic environment. But, uh, I love your mindset. I love how you've used all of this to become a more resilient, more ambitious person.

[01:03:59] I think that's great.

[01:04:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it's fantastic, but also to become a more vulnerable person, more authentic, right? It takes a lot of strength to say, I'm gonna finish this degree even if it takes me seven years. And it also takes a lot of strength to say to a professor in front of a hundred students, sorry, I just can't, I'm not gonna read in front of people.

[01:04:16] I can't, I can't do it. Mm-Hmm. The fact that you can do both of these things that you're advocating for yourself without letting yourself off the hook. I think that is phenomenal.

[01:04:24] Jordan Harbinger: I gotta admit, I always assumed that people with dyslexia just kind of had to give up on achieving a certain level academically at some point.

[01:04:31] It doesn't mean they can't succeed in life and go on to have incredible careers. So many do. I think Richard Branson is dyslexic. I read somewhere that, uh, I. Albert Einstein probably was even Anderson Cooper, I think. Yeah, that's right. Steven Spielberg is one of them. Really interesting. Sammy the bull is also dyslexic.

[01:04:48] Oh. Not the example I was really going for, however, but he did achieve at a very

[01:04:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: high

[01:04:52] Jordan Harbinger: level. He did make it to the top, uh, of

[01:04:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: the game, uh, as far as mafia enforcers are concerned. Interesting thing about Steven Spielberg. I think he got diagnosed very late in life, like 60 years old or something. Oh wow. And I remember reading somewhere that he said getting diagnosed with dyslexia was the last puzzle piece to a great mystery that I've kept to myself.

[01:05:12] I bet. Which is also very interesting because there's another highly visual person like our friend here. I wonder if Steven Spielberg's dyslexia is partly why he's so good with, you know, like visual storytelling.

[01:05:22] Jordan Harbinger: I'm sure it is. It's fascinating. Steven. Pick up Chinese man. You, you, you're cut out for it.

[01:05:28] So clearly dyslexics are able to succeed at the highest levels. I. I ignorantly assumed that getting multiple degrees and doing a PhD program might not be a good option for many people with this disability, and that's just because there's so much stinking reading involved man and and writing for that matter.

[01:05:44] And clearly this is just not the case.

[01:05:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: I also, I don't mean to repeat myself, but I love that you've given yourself this grace through all of this. I don't know about you, Jordan, but whenever I think about being patient with myself or whatever, like I feel like I'm letting myself off the hook or that I don't really deserve it. Like I have to be perfect.

[01:06:04] I know what you mean, man.

[01:06:05] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I get it. I, it can feel like weakness. Mm-Hmm. Which I know intellectually it is not, but it feels that way a lot of the time. Totally.

[01:06:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: But if she didn't give herself that grace and patience, she wouldn't have finished all of these degrees. So it's like what's better? Holding yourself to an unrealistic standard given your capabilities and beating yourself up for not being perfect or working with what you have and giving yourself the time you need to actually realize your goals.

[01:06:28] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Like I said, the timeline is not something to apologize for. It's something to be proud of in the first place.

[01:06:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I mean, the whole getting a perfect thing in general is kind of a recipe for anxiety and self-loathing and paralysis, even if you don't have a disability, but with a disability. I can see how that could dictate your whole life.

[01:06:46] Jordan Harbinger: And I love that she's extending that advice to parents and teachers too. Sure. To not expect dyslexics to be perfect or perform publicly, but to help them work with their abilities and validate their accomplishments. That's a great piece of advice. Honestly, it's a little surprising to me that there are still teachers in this day and age who would do that to a kid who's struggling with reading.

[01:07:03] Mm. But I, I guess that speaks to how far people still have to go in educating themselves about this stuff. So we're happy to read your letter. Thank you again for taking the time to share it. I hope anyone listening right now with any kind of disability can take some of this into their own life. 'cause these principles, they're universal and honestly, they really do apply to people who don't have a disability as well.

[01:07:24] I've wrestled with some of these themes as a kid too, and I could read fine. So this is great. The older I get, the more I appreciate that our deficiencies or challenges in one area, they almost always end up being a superpower in another area. The person I don't know who can't focus on a task for three hours is amazing at picking up the phone and closing customers, and that was me.

[01:07:44] By the way, the person who's painfully shy and loves to be alone can dive into a topic and become a real expert. The person who's dyslexic can master Chinese in a few years, or become one of the most talented movie directors in history, or, uh, be go to the top of the Gotti crime family, um, as and end up at a supermax.

[01:08:04] Part of our job is to figure out what those superpowers hidden in the deficiencies are, how to harness them, how to apply and market them, and capitalize on them in a way that's lucrative and fulfilling, which our friend hero has done brilliantly. So thank you for this dose of great advice and confidence.

[01:08:18] And again, huge congrats on everything you've accomplished. You are quite a hero and a role model, so keep up the great work doctor. Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network.

[01:08:33] The circle of people that I know, like, and trust, and most importantly, know, like, and trust me, and I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course. The course is free. It is not gross, it's not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com.

[01:08:48] These drills take a few minutes a day, dig the well before you get thirsty. Folks, build those relationships before you need them. You can find all of this again for free@sixminutenetworking.com. Our newsletter, Gabriel and I are gonna be reformatting this sucker. It's gonna be, uh, it's gonna be a lot of fun actually.

[01:09:03] I'm pretty excited to work on this news stuff with you, Jordan harbinger.com/news. We bring a lot of wisdom in the newsletter and these little bites every single week. Again, Jordan harbinger.com/news. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

[01:09:21] I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter, Instagram. You can hit me on LinkedIn, Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show was created in association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, mil, OC Campo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

[01:09:38] Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing. Didn't you hear me say I couldn't focus on the reading? Don't. You don't wanna take my advice. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Dr. Hassan's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience.

[01:09:54] It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

[01:10:09] In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You are about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with a top sleep expert about why we dream, what happens when we sleep, and why chronic lack of sleep and driving while tired is more dangerous than driving under the influence of alcohol.

[01:10:30] Matthew Walker: Sleep is not an optional lifestyle. Luxury sleep is a non-negotiable biological necessity. Sleep is a life support system. It is Mother nature's best effort yet at immortality. And the decimation of sleep throughout industrialized nations is now having a catastrophic impact on our health, our wellness, as well as the safety and the education of our children.

[01:10:53] It is a silent sleep loss epidemic, and I would contend that it is fast becoming the greatest public health challenge that we now face in the 21st century. The evidence is very clear that when we delay school, start times, academic grades, increase behavioral problems, decrease truancy rates, decrease psychological and psychiatric issues decrease.

[01:11:14] But what we also found, which we didn't expect in those studies, is that life expectancy of students increased. So if our goal as educators truly is to educate and not risk lives in the process, then we are failing our children in the most spectacular manner with this incessant model of early school start times.

[01:11:33] And by the way, 7:30 AM for a teenager is the equivalent for an adult waking up at four 30. Or three 30 in the morning. If you are trying to survive or regularly getting five hours of sleep or less, you have a 65% risk of dying at any moment in time. When you wake up the next day, you have a revised mind wide web of associations, a new associative network, a rebooted iOS that is capable of defining remarkable insights into previously impenetrable problems.

[01:12:08] And it is the reason that you have never been told to stay awake on a problem. Instead, you're told to sleep on a problem

[01:12:16] Jordan Harbinger: for more on sleep, including why we dream and how we can increase the quality of our sleep. Check out episode 1 26 with Dr. Matthew Walker on the Jordan Harbinger Show.