775: Bridezilla’s Vanity Tests Bestie’s Sanity | Feedback Friday

775: Bridezilla’s Vanity Tests Bestie’s Sanity | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Special thanks to Peloton for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[00:00:08] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, a guy whose walls are so bare, they can only be described as serial killer white, Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:00:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: I haven't had a chance to hang stuff yet, that's why.

[00:00:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:00:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's why they're bare.

[00:00:25] Jordan Harbinger: Totally barren. Totally normal. It is a new apartment, white—

[00:00:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Did you just say they're barren?

[00:00:29] Jordan Harbinger: They're barren. They're barren. Can you use that word for walls?

[00:00:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't think so. That means that they can't get pregnant.

[00:00:35] Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's also true.

[00:00:37] On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills are the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker so you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening even inside your own mind.

[00:01:02] If you're new to the show on Fridays, we give advice to you. We answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week we had Dr. David Lieberman, really interesting guy — human behavior, ego, alibis, lie detection, just a really amazing guy. I've been reading his books for years. We also had Jonah Berger, one from the vault on influence and persuasion, but also how influence sort of runs in the background, how it's invisible, undetectable to most of us. He specializes mostly in viral marketing and word of mouth and that kind of social influence. So two influence-related episodes this week on the show. Make sure you have a listen to those.

[00:01:44] Now, Gabe, before we talk conundra, I wanted to tell you, I was watching this crappy horror movie a few nights ago.

[00:01:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:52] Jordan Harbinger: Which I never do, by the way, very, very rarely. Of course, the scary demon thing. terrorizing the main character is very scary.

[00:02:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:00] Jordan Harbinger: The worst part of it is nobody believes her, right? Nobody else can see it. She's basically being ignored/gaslit, but instead of being about her memories or whatever, it's about this literal monster thing that won't leave her alone.

[00:02:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:15] Jordan Harbinger: And it sort of reminded me of when people are dealing with trauma or mental illness or maybe even depression or a tough situation in their lives and other people don't listen to them and don't take them seriously. And in the movie, of course, the thing is nobody believes this woman because the demon is some ghost thing that seems like BS, right? Okay. This demon's—

[00:02:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:34] Jordan Harbinger: —possessing you and nobody else can see it.

[00:02:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sure.

[00:02:36] Jordan Harbinger: And yet we all know, we know mental illness is real. We know that. We know trauma is real.

[00:02:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:42] Jordan Harbinger: And then we do the same thing, the exact same thing to people experiencing something that we don't fully understand either.

[00:02:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Interesting.

[00:02:49] Jordan Harbinger: So we watch these movies and I go, "I would be better than this. I believe my friend, even if it was crazy, or at least I'd pretend to believe my friend because they're my friend and I'd help them." But then people have to deal with a parent or a sibling or a neighbor with a very real medical issue, diagnosed or not. And then we treat them like we treat the characters in these movies—

[00:03:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:03:10] Jordan Harbinger: —or worse.

[00:03:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's interesting. Yeah. It becomes a lot clearer when the pain is like externalized as a monster, right?

[00:03:16] Jordan Harbinger: Sure.

[00:03:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which might actually be the whole point of a horror movie to make that seem real. Yeah.

[00:03:20] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe it's a whole thing. Yeah, like when it has 17 sets of teeth and it's eight feet tall, it's really scary. But if it's like, I just can't get out of bed because I feel so crappy about how my life turned out and something, something brain chemistry, we're like, "Have you tried not being depressed or just, I don't know, get some sun." It's just, but yeah, it's a great metaphor. I just thought that was kind of appropriate as we kick off another week of doozies here on Feedback Friday.

[00:03:43] All right. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:03:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My best friend is getting married in a year, and she asked me and her sister to be the maids of honor. She was mine about a year ago, so of course, I said, yes. I feel awful saying this, but now I'm wishing I hadn't. She is the definition of a bridezilla. She wants to outdo all of her friend's weddings and is doing the absolute most. When I had my wedding, I tried to keep everything super laid back, partly to make things easier on her. For example, for my bachelorette, I just wanted to play board games and smoke pot with my girls in a little cabin close by. Meanwhile, she wants to go to a resort in Mexico. She also has so many friends and she's always complaining to me about all of them, which makes me wonder what she says to them about me. She has 12 bridesmaids and she's already given me 20-plus projects to do for her wedding. I am not a people person and I'm stressed about having to plan everything, especially since she's so particular. Recently, in a moment of excitement, I told her that my husband and I had an oopsie and that I might be pregnant. She was silent for a whole 15 minutes after that.

[00:04:56] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, oops. The opposite reaction ensued.

[00:05:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: In front of me, yeah, exactly.

[00:05:02] It was so effing awkward. If I'm her best friend, I feel like she should be happy for me. All of this is making me dread hanging out with my best friend. I always leave feeling drained. What should I do here? Do I stick it out and try to distance myself after the wedding or do I say eff it and tell her I need to back out because this is truly messing with my mental health? Signed, A Maid of Honor, Sick of Having to Fawn Over This Bridezilla Monster.

[00:05:29] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, not your best work on the name there. Rhyming is a little off. Huh?

[00:05:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, as I said it out loud, I realized that it didn't quite work. Yeah.

[00:05:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:05:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's my beat. They're not all winners. I say that all the time. Sorry.

[00:05:41] Jordan Harbinger: They usually are though.

[00:05:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:05:42] Jordan Harbinger: I can't do the thing with the names. I mean, look, I named the show The Jordan Harbinger Show. That's how much creativity we're dealing with here on my end. So I can't really make fun of you, but at least—

[00:05:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: I appreciate the humility. I feel like I've built up like a little bit of bad sign-off credit.

[00:05:56] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:05:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: So I'll just take the L. I'll take the L.

[00:05:58] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, you come up with these great names, so hey, if this one doesn't write, it just seems like a little bit of a white belt mistake.

[00:06:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: White belt. White wall. It's just a white kind of day.

[00:06:06] Jordan Harbinger: It's eggshell.

[00:06:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:06:07] Jordan Harbinger: All right. So a new year, a new killer bridezilla story.

[00:06:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:11] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe, I don't know. But I love these letters. There's just something—

[00:06:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, me too.

[00:06:15] Jordan Harbinger: There's something about a person turning into a tyrant around their wedding that I find absolutely hilarious. I mean, it's insane. It's freaking awful for the poor bridesmaids, but from the outside, I'm sorry. It's just really funny to me, I think because you're watching someone become a monster over something as ridiculous as a big, expensive party.

[00:06:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:34] Jordan Harbinger: It's like when that lady in your accounting department turns into freaking Kim Jong-il when it comes to reviewing your expense report or whatever. It's like, "Okay, calm down. This little sphere of power you've invented in your head is not real and you look like a maniac.

[00:06:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And also like it's your wedding.

[00:06:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:06:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: You're trying to make a statement about true love and eternal happiness, and here you are orchestrating a military operation to make like 20 of your friends get wasted at a Hyatt and frigging Punta Cabras.

[00:07:00] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Exactly.

[00:07:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Calm down.

[00:07:02] Jordan Harbinger: Melting down over the centerpieces. Are they white or are they serial killer white, like Gabriel's walls? They have to match.

[00:07:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: They are eggshell. Okay. I think we've established that. They're not that bad, but also they're not just bare, still white, still barren, fine.

[00:07:16] Jordan Harbinger: Still white. Still creepy.

[00:07:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Still creepy.

[00:07:17] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Okay.

[00:07:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:07:18] Jordan Harbinger: Fine. But you realize this is not the point of the wedding, right? Jessica, come on.

[00:07:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Freaking Jessica.

[00:07:24] Jordan Harbinger: So, yeah, I feel for you, and I'm sorry you're the co-maid of honor in this nuptial sh*tastrophe. The amount of emails we get about people dealing with bridezillas, this is the real epidemic, truly.

[00:07:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:37] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, look, I know weddings are stressful. I went through that with my wife. She didn't, we didn't even want to have a wedding and then we had to have one. And every bride goes a little nuts planning one. There's a lot of moving parts. But this isn't just stress. This is a woman who's turning into a diva and talking smack about her good friends behind their backs and making her best friend miserable. I mean, it sort of goes a little bit beyond the pale.

[00:07:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: And not just because of the wedding planning. She also apparently can't be happy for her friend here about getting pregnant. That kind of says a lot.

[00:08:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's a very telling thing. You can have these two emotions in your head at once you'd think. Here she is bending over backward to give her best friend the wedding that she wants, and then when she tells her something that's exciting about her life, Jessica's just sitting across from her, sipping on her Pinot Gris, giving her the thousand yard stare for 15 minutes, because she can't find it in herself to say, "Congratulations. I'm happy for you."

[00:08:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: To be fair though, that might have been because she called it an oopsie.

[00:08:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's a little cringe. But that is an amazing word for the miracle of pregnancy. Or maybe it was an accident, but it sounds like a happy accident. Not a bad one. She's pumped about it. We're giving her a little bit of grief in the letter for fun here, but I mean, it's a big deal. You're having a kid.

[00:08:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. She seems to be happy about it. I think she was just being cheeky with that word, but—

[00:08:51] Jordan Harbinger: Sure.

[00:08:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: By the way, I think we should start to use that term from now on the show. Like, so you and your husband are trying to have an oopsie.

[00:08:58] Jordan Harbinger: When are you guys planning to have an oopsie? Hmm.

[00:09:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I'm too young to have an oopsie, honestly.

[00:09:03] Jordan Harbinger: Jen and I had two oopsies and they're the best oopsies that ever happened to us.

[00:09:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: I myself am oopsie-free. I'm like, batten a thousand on the oopsies, as of now.

[00:09:12] Jordan Harbinger: I guess we had an oopsie sounds better than we ran out of condoms and Keith's pullout game is hella weak.

[00:09:21] Here's my take on Kim Jong Jessica. She's getting a little carried away with the wedding planning to put it politely.

[00:09:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. Yep.

[00:09:30] Jordan Harbinger: And it's possible she's not out and out evil. I'm going to give her that one. She's just wrapped up in her bullsh*t and she's forgetting that—

[00:09:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:36] Jordan Harbinger: —she's not the only person who matters.

[00:09:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:09:38] Jordan Harbinger: Plus, she's your best friend, and as her best friend, you have more of a responsibility to work on your relationship before you just bail on it and unplug everything. So here's what I would do. I would make some time with her one-on-one. Probably not going to be too hard if you're the maid of honor, and I would try to give her a little more perspective. Maybe you say something like, "Hey, listen Jess, I'm really happy that you're having such a fun bachelorette party and wedding, and I'm so happy to be one of your maids of honor. It's a really exciting time. But I'm also noticing that things seem to be getting a little intense. You're coming up with a ton of projects. You're very particular about how you like things done, which I can respect, but I wonder if all of this is really necessary. I notice that you're getting frustrated with the other girls. Maybe you're getting frustrated with me, and that makes me really sad because that is literally the opposite of how a wedding should be. I'm your best friend. I've been through this whole wedding process myself, and I feel like I wouldn't be a very good friend if I didn't remind you that this time should be as fun and stress-free as possible for you, for us, for everyone at the wedding. I want you to look back and enjoy this time, and I'm really not trying to give you a whole talk, but I think you might be creating more stress than you have to, and I'm worried that it's taken away from your happiness." Something like that, right? Say something along those lines, and as much as you can, I would make this more about her experience of her own wedding and less about how unhappy you are because she's driving you nuts, at least at first, because that's going to make the medicine go down smoother. You're basically saying stop being such a monster, but you're framing it as, Hey, you're going to have a lot more fun if you chill out."

[00:11:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:11:14] Jordan Harbinger: And just see how she responds. If she's like, "Oh my god, you're right. I'm so sorry. I know this is a whole circus. I'm not trying to do that," and she eases up. Okay, then you're going to be happy you said something. It'll probably bring you guys closer together and then you can work with her and your co-main of honor to choose a handful of reasonable projects Jessica needs to get done and everything will be fine. But if she's like, "How dare you say, I'm too much. This is my wedding. I'm sorry if it's stressful for you, but that's what being a maid of honor is. Step it up." So whatever you know. "So you should be so lucky to be in my bridal party," then you know that this is how she really is and can't handle stress.

[00:11:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, your bridezilla voice is top shelf. I love that.

[00:11:52] Jordan Harbinger: This is why I didn't have a bachelor party, because I would've been like, "Get your sh*t together guys. I want caviar on the strippers. Not next to the stripper." I'm just kidding.

[00:12:03] But if that happens, you need to calibrate your friendship with this woman and then you need to decide whether to stick it. Or pull back a little, unlike Keith. The good news is you have to have—

[00:12:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: So good.

[00:12:18] Jordan Harbinger: The good news is you have a co-maid of honor, so the whole process won't completely fall apart if you back out.

[00:12:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Unlike Keith.

[00:12:26] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Again, unlike Keith's pullout — oh, it's going to suck for that woman because you're just leaving her with all this. But backing out will probably be a huge source of drama and it could impact the whole wedding. So just keep that in mind. You might be trading one angry friend for another at that point. I hate to say this. You did already commit. It may be worse to bail now than to just see this through as best you can. And maybe you'll find some camaraderie in the other girls too—

[00:12:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:52] Jordan Harbinger: —you know? "Hey, is it just me or is Jessica being a little crazy?" "Yeah, she is, but you know what? She doesn't handle stress well, I remember her in college. It's going to be fine in a couple of days," and then everybody forgets about this and you laugh about it in a couple months.

[00:13:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fair point.

[00:13:04] Jordan Harbinger: But all right, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Honestly, if this were me, I would talk to your co-maid of honor, work with her to make the workload more manageable. Maybe you pick the projects that don't involve other people as much, and then you partner really well with her to just get everything done with as little stress on your end as possible. Jessica may be a nightmare, temporary or otherwise, but you and this other woman can create a little cocoon for yourselves where you just handle everything in a really chill way. I think that might be the answer.

[00:13:31] But yeah, going forward, it might not be somebody you want to be as close with in the future, especially because of the whole oopsie conversation. But I don't know, what — I'm not sure about here, Gabe. Does she try to talk about that with her too? Or is it just one thing at a time?

[00:13:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm leaning toward yes because if she doesn't bring it up, it's going to hang between them. And I feel like that resentment and that confusion will probably grow. It's just so awkward. Like you tell your best friend you're pregnant and she can't say anything. You got to talk about that, right? I mean, I might even bring it up in the same conversation, assuming it goes well with the other stuff. Once you guys sort out the wedding planning, maybe you say, "And listen, I know you already have a lot on your mind right now, but the other day when I told you the good news, I got to say, I was kind of confused by your response. You didn't say very much. I left that conversation kind of disappointed, kind of hurt. I expected a very different response from my best friend. So like, I just want to know, are you okay? Was it weird for you to hear that I was pregnant? Help me understand like, what was that like to receive that news or something."

[00:14:30] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: And then get her to explain if you can, and give her a chance to try again and have a more supportive response if she has it in her.

[00:14:38] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. Literally, all she has to do is say, "Yay, congrats, but oh gosh, I can't even think about this right now because of my wedding." And then it's like, "Okay, I'm not trying to outshine your wedding." Because I'm wondering is that what she's thinking? "Oh, you just got pregnant, you're just having unprotected sex because I'm getting married and you want all the attention." I mean, what sort of thought process is going on here? My hunch is that Jessica's a little or really self-centered and insecure, and so hearing that her best friend is having a baby, maybe she feels like you're one-upping her because now our friend here is something that's even more exciting than the wedding and Jessica just can't handle it or doesn't want to handle it. That's one theory.

[00:15:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I think that could be what's going on, which is just very classic bridezilla.

[00:15:18] Jordan Harbinger: Definitely.

[00:15:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: But who knows? Maybe Jessica feels like she's losing her friend because she's entering a new phase of her life. She's going to be a mother, she's starting a family. Jessica might not be a top priority anymore, and maybe she's one of those people who just cannot be excited for somebody else because it feels like she's losing her—

[00:15:34] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, yeah. Right

[00:15:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Somehow.

[00:15:35] Jordan Harbinger: Right. But that kind of amounts to the same thing in my book.

[00:15:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: It does. Yeah, it does.

[00:15:40] Jordan Harbinger: Whatever's going on for her. She's not being a good friend for her right now. I almost feel like—

[00:15:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agree.

[00:15:44] Jordan Harbinger: It's not a funeral. You didn't lose your child and your friends like, "By the way, I'm pregnant." Then it's a little bit like, "Oh god, did you have to tell me that now?"

[00:15:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. Yeah.

[00:15:52] Jordan Harbinger: This is a wedding. It's like one happy thing and then another happy thing happens. Just it's fine. It's great. They're both great things. They don't cancel each other out. Viewing it like that is weird for me.

[00:16:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is why I think it's worth talking about. And if they can talk about it, that's a sign that the friendship has probably run its course. And there just isn't enough love or basic respect to sustain a meaningful connection. This whole wedding, it's very interesting. It's really a huge test of their friendship.

[00:16:17] Jordan Harbinger: It is. I agree with that. I do hope that this gives you a way forward here. Weddings are always insane, but there's a way to make them less insane. So lean on that co-maid of honor. Thankfully, you have one of those. Make it happen. And look, there's a light at the end of the tunnel here either way. One way or another, the nightmare is going to come to an end soon. The bigger question is whether Jessica is really a good friend to you. because if this were me, I just think it would be hard to stay friends with somebody who talks sh*t about everybody and can't be happy for me when a big life event happens. But maybe she needs to be called out on all that in order to snap out of it. Everyone deserves a shot, I suppose. And hey, if you want to get even here, just make Jessica plan your baby shower and maybe you become a momzilla. Give her 27 stork-related projects to work on for 90 of your closest friends until she goes out of her freaking mind. That'll teach her. "I want real storks. Okay. And real babies that drop from the sky, Jess, real ones."

[00:17:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Just make our head explode. I like it.

[00:17:15] Jordan Harbinger: You know who will always be happy about your oopsies, whatever they are? Work on your pull-out game and pull out your credit card for the amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:17:28] This episode is sponsored in part by TextExpander. If you want to save literal hours each month, you'll want to try out a tool that I use every single day called TextExpander. My entire team uses it. It's been a game changer for everybody on here. We've gotten a ton of listeners in on this as well. TextExpander is basically keyboard shortcuts, but much more powerful. And you're probably thinking, "Look, I can copy and paste. I already have keyboard shortcuts. They're built into the phone." That is child's play. TextExpander can do so much more. For example, I often use a current date shortcut in TextExpander. Whenever I teach people about it, they flip. I type FD and it puts today's date automatically wherever I need it in a specific format. Genius. I use this constantly. And with TextExpander, you can also create custom message templates where you fill in, say a name or a date, or include a dropdown of different message options depending on what you want to send. I use that all the time, but it's especially handy if you need to send out mass messages that are customized, like responding to LinkedIn or social media or other business emails or messages. TextExpander is so smart. It will also suggest snippets that you should create based on things that you type all the time. So don't waste time typing out things you've already worded perfectly. Capture the important pieces of your emails, directions, messages, and data so you never have to retype them again. It works on desktop and mobile, and of course, it syncs between the two.

[00:18:47] Jen Harbinger: Try TextExpander for free. And when you're ready to sign up, get 20 percent off your first year at textexpander.com/jordan. Go to textexpander.com/jordan to learn more about TextExpander.

[00:19:00] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Better Help online therapy. If you're struggling with your mental health, don't worry. You are not alone. More than half of all Americans will be diagnosed with an emotional or behavioral health disorder at some point in their life. No surprise there. Honestly, I'm surprised it's not more of us. I think it's the diagnosed part that keeps it from being 90 percent of us. When you're at your best, look, you can do great things. We all can, but sometimes life gets you bogged down. You feel overwhelmed. I remember when I was super stressed. There's a whole point in my life where just years, I just didn't do anything. It sucked it. I was working all the time. I was just a miserable way to live. Working with a therapist is what got me out of there. And working with a therapist can help you get back to the best version of yourself as well. A lot of people that are new to therapy, they ask me for suggestions on how to find a therapist. I always recommend Better Help because it — yeah, you can look through the Yellow Pages or whatever, but Better Help is convenient. It's flexible, it's affordable, it's all remote. You don't have to drive and park. Fill out a brief questionnaire, get mashed with a licensed professional therapist, and if it's not a fit, you can find a new one really easily. That's also pretty tricky to do outside of a company like Better Help. Better Help app is amazing. Also it has a journaling feature. You can text your therapist at any time. Don't be the guy or gal who's always putting the burden and venting to your friends and family. Do what's effective. Reach out to your therapist instead.

[00:20:20] Jen Harbinger: If you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan today to get 10 percent off your first month. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:20:31] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps the lights on around here. We put all of the deals and all the discount codes all in one place because there's a billion of them, jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the search box on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support us.

[00:20:50] Now back to Feedback Friday.

[00:20:54] All right, what's next?

[00:20:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I spent over 30 years in an evangelical church and at 33 years old, I'm now trying to find my own way. I was deeply hurt by the church, which controlled my beliefs and created lots of shame, mainly around relationships. I was trapped in the idea of purity culture with tons of rules around sex, pleasure, and finding my worth in this idea of being pure. Then, earlier this year, I met a guy and I saw him for about three months. This was my first romantic relationship. Since I've never dated before, I left a lot of the logistics up to him because I was trying to figure out what I wanted and didn't know how to show or ask for what I needed. By the time, I became comfortable asking for what I wanted, it was too late. I was unexpectedly dumped. He asked if I had any questions and suggested we could be friends. I sent him a letter a week later saying the things that I had wanted to say but couldn't and a text the week after asking if we could discuss the letter, but I got no response. I was hoping to talk with him for closure and understanding, and I really would like to still be friends. Is there a chance to reconnect with this guy as friends and maybe more? If so, how do I approach this or do I just move on? Also, do you have any advice on getting into the dating game at a later age without any experience and how and when to share my background? Signed, Navigating the Game and Mourning My First Flame When I Grew Up This Tame.

[00:22:25] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Well, first of all, I want to congratulate you for having the courage to reevaluate the system you grew up in and open up your world in this way. That is not easy. I can't even imagine doing something like that. I'm sure it was very scary and confusing, especially at first. And the fact that you've been willing to interrogate the whole purity culture thing and live a life that feels freer and more authentic, I think it's really remarkable. Religions like the one you were a part of, they often create a lot of shame. They do that by design. It's not just around sex and pleasure, but also around feeling like you don't know how to relate to people. You don't understand how certain dynamics work. To your point, you might not even know how to ask for what you need or have certain conversations because you're not supposed to, or no one that you know has ever done that. I mean, that's really hard. And that's why I'm so impressed that you opened yourself up to a relationship, even if it was for only three months. You put yourself in a completely new arena. You made a few mistakes, you learned a ton. You should be really proud of yourself for that, seriously.

[00:23:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:23:27] Jordan Harbinger: I think if I left a really restrictive religion like that, I don't know if I'd even have the courage to jump into something like dating and intimate relationships. It would be too scary, I think.

[00:23:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally.

[00:23:37] Jordan Harbinger: So just to save you a bunch of time, I think the move is to let this guy go, at least for now. I know it hurts that he's ghosted you. Welcome to dating, by the way. I know it's frustrating to not get the closure you wanted. That would be frustrating for anyone. This is not unique to you. It sucks because he has to be friends now. He's not being friendly. I'm sure that's confusing. That's also kind of dating 101. Like, "Let's be friends." Uh, "Let's never talk again," right?

[00:24:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:03] Jordan Harbinger: But this guy is signaling to you what he wants by not engaging. And as hard as it is, you have to accept the message. He's obviously not willing to or able to be friends. And to be fair, maybe his feelings changed after the fact. Who knows? But whatever the reason, he's going one way and you're going another way. And that's okay. It sucks and it's okay. So yes, I think the best approach is really to move on. You don't want to convince some guy to like you or love you or pay attention to you. One, you're better than that. And two, it's very difficult/impossible to really do that in a sustainable way. Either he does or he doesn't, and you just have to accept him for where he is. This is the mourning phase of a breakup. It's not fun, but it is necessary and the feelings will settle. I promise. I know that it might not seem that way because this is your first relationship, but you just need to let him go and separate for that to happen and for these feelings to run their course.

[00:24:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well said, Jordan. I think she's struggling to do that to your point because this one guy matters so much to her.

[00:25:03] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: This was her first real romantic relationship that is so formative and she sees how she could have handled things better and she wants to maybe have another shot at handling things better and she doesn't want to let him go. But now that you're at this point, I think you need to reframe this relationship in your mind. You are thinking about it as a promising relationship that abruptly ended and could still succeed if you guys could just talk some more, but it might be more helpful to think about it as an important first relationship that taught you a lot about romance and dating and, yeah, even breaking up, which is a skill and a process in and of itself. And just trust that this guy served the function he was meant to serve in your life, which was, it sounds like, to be the bridge between your old life and your new life, your old self and your new self. And yeah, that's a process.

[00:25:51] It might take a few more weeks or even a few more months to work through everything and put it to bed, but that's where you're heading one way or the other. Because the reality is he's just not your guy. He was a guy, a very important guy, and now you know so much more than you did before the relationship. And when you're ready to start dating again, I bet you'll find that you're much more in touch with those needs you mentioned. You're much more fluent in the language of dating. You'll probably be able to assert yourself more and understand your feelings and talk to the guys you date and all of that. And once you get to that point, you realize that I think you'll feel grateful to this guy for coming into your life, even if the breakup was hard and even if it was only for three months.

[00:26:30] Jordan Harbinger: I totally agree here. As for how to talk about your past with people. There's no one answer there. I think it depends on how you want to share your story and how receptive the other person is to hearing it. In general, I'd say that this is something you should probably bring up in the first few dates so it doesn't become some sort of secret or shameful thing. An albatross you carry around your neck, right?

[00:26:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:26:52] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe don't hit someone with it in the first 10 minutes of a first date. Let the guy, get to know you as you first and then fill him in on something. That might be a little surprising, but also it is a meaningful part of your story.

[00:27:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:27:03] Jordan Harbinger: And if you feel comfortable with somebody, if there's something there and it would help you get to know each other, maybe you say, "So crazy story, I used to be part of this community. I realized I didn't believe everything they taught. I left. I'm finding out who I am without all of those ideas. It's been quite a journey. Here I am." Obviously, you can go into more detail or less detail depending on the situation and how receptive they're being, but what matters most is how secure you are with your story. If it's still a little tender or it's awkward to talk about, maybe you saved it for the second or third date, or you wait until you guys have a couple of Moscow mules and then you spill the beans. But if you've worked through a lot of the shame, then your story's going to probably land the right way with a new person.

[00:27:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Honestly, I think most people will have the reaction we had, which is they'll be very intrigued and they'll be impressed by the fact that she left and has the courage to try things in a totally new way.

[00:27:55] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. It says a lot about her character and her personality.

[00:27:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:27:58] Jordan Harbinger: I don't know if she has to shy away from it as much as she thinks.

[00:28:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: As for getting into the dating game at a later age, the best advice I could offer you there is, sort of to Jordan's point a moment ago, own your story as much as you can and just embrace where you are in this process right now. Because ultimately that's the only thing you can do. You can't snap your fingers and have dated 50 more guys, right? You can't go back in time and leave the church sooner. It's just going to take time to gain experience. It'll take time to learn about yourself and that's fine. That's okay. It's actually kind of exciting. So try to approach this whole dating thing as a learning experience. Try to accept where you are right now and just show up as that person, which by the way, that's also the most attractive thing you can do because pretending to be somebody you're not, man, that is stressful.

[00:28:45] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: People pick up on that. They can sense that even if they can't quite put their finger on it, like, "Uh, she's hiding something or she's sort of covering for something, but I don't quite know what it is." And that just leads to problems down the line that you don't need

[00:29:02] Jordan Harbinger: Well, as you can see, I agree completely. I think she's at a really, I think she's at a really interesting point in her development where she's out of the purity culture thing, but she's still a novice in modern human relationships.

[00:29:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:29:14] Jordan Harbinger: And her head is still spinning a little bit, which is completely reasonable. It won't always be that way.

[00:29:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:29:18] Jordan Harbinger: The best thing she can do is just keep seeing people get some more experience under her belt.

[00:29:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Literally.

[00:29:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, literally. Exactly. Also, emotionally, this woman is brave. She's being incredibly vulnerable. I love her whole attitude. She sounds like an awesome person, truly.

[00:29:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: She does.

[00:29:35] Jordan Harbinger: Keep going. Remember that your only job right now is to just try things and learn and just trust this whole process is leading you to the right relationship one day, and good luck with that.

[00:29:46] You know, I think, Gabe, this would be hard because a lot of the stuff she's going through now — and I don't mean this to sound sort of condescending here, and that's not my intent at all — what she's going through now, most of us go through, I don't know, in like ninth or 10th or 11th grade maybe.

[00:30:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:30:01] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe college, the latest. And she's in—

[00:30:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, early 20s. Yeah.

[00:30:05] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. First sort of real breakup where it really screws you up. You know? That's a 20s thing.

[00:30:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. .

[00:30:09] Jordan Harbinger: So she's in her 30s. She feels late to the game.

[00:30:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:11] Jordan Harbinger: All of her friends maybe are still in this weird group, but they're like, "A relationship? We don't have those," right? "We don't talk about them."

[00:30:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:30:16] Jordan Harbinger: Or they're married and they have six kids already.

[00:30:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:30:18] Jordan Harbinger: So she probably feels really alone in this and doesn't have anybody to kind of bounce this off of. And what's she comparing it to? People she sees on TV? That's not real either.

[00:30:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:28] Jordan Harbinger: So this would be a weird thing to do at that age, kind of no matter what because you don't have any real basis for comparison if you're in that situation.

[00:30:36] Well, you can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line if there's something you're going through, a big decision you're wrestling with, or you just need a new perspective on life, love work. What to do if your grown son is a textbook narcissist, who's manipulating you emotionally and financially? Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:31:02] All right, what's next?

[00:31:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I just turned 36 and I've worked very happily for a huge and well-known company for 13 years. During the pandemic, my personal life took a big hit. I lost a parent and I broke up with my girlfriend, and work became less exciting. I came close to quitting, but opted instead for a one-year sabbatical to ensure that my desire to quit wasn't just a passing whim. The past several months have been the most meaningful of my life. I've been reading more, sleeping better, and most importantly, spending much more quality time with my friends and my family. Now, I have a difficult decision to make — return to my company or move on. In your deep dive on how to quit your job the right way, you talk about the right and the wrong reasons to quit. And after thinking about it, I believe I'm checking off most of the right reasons, but I have no other job lined up and I'm terrified of saying goodbye to my regular paycheck and company stock. The irony is I've been diligent about saving money and investing wisely over the past decade, and by my conservative calculations, I have enough saved to last at least five years without income. Still, I'm so worried about going broke. My therapist — thank you, Better Help — says this is typical catastrophizing, and I think he's right. So how can I reconcile my desire for a more independent life with my probably unfounded fear of financial instability? Signed, Shrugging Off My Business Suit Without Becoming Destitute.

[00:32:30] Jordan Harbinger: Great question. First of all, you're doing so much right here. You found a job you really enjoy. You left to mark there over a long period of time. That's great. When you got bored, you didn't just quit impulsively, you negotiated a sabbatical, which is a great idea. You reconnected with yourself. You took the time to really consider this decision. I mean, that's all very wise, and you've been extremely responsible and given yourself a huge cushion to make a big transition, which I mean, that's inspiring, man. You've put yourself in literally the most ideal position to venture out into the unknown. But this fear you have that if you leave the nest, you're going to end up broke, okay, it's a very common fear, actually. It's a universal human thing. This terror about losing everything. I've been there so many times, I'm going to end up in the street.

[00:33:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:16] Jordan Harbinger: I've had those fears. Money is charged. It hooks into our most paranoid evolutionary wiring. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much for that because it is so common, but it's interesting the fact that you're so worried, even though you objectively have five years of runway, and that's if you don't move out of the United States, I assume, right? You could move somewhere else and get 10 years. That's a sign that this fear, it's not grounded, in any reality. It's just a piece of primitive software. Just one of those old scripts that's hardwired into the brain, that's designed to keep you alive, but isn't actually likely to pan out. In fact, based on your track record, it almost certainly can't pan out this way, the worst way that you're imagining.

[00:33:56] So if you want to reconcile those two impulses, I'd approach this from two angles. First, on a psychological level, I would explore the roots of this money fear. Where does it come from? How does it operate? Who feeds it? What function is it serving in your life? We've done episodes about this with Dr. Brad Klontz. He talked about these money patterns. I love that you took this into therapy and that your therapist helped you see that you're catastrophizing. And I would go further. I would ask, why are you catastrophizing? How does catastrophizing serve to, I don't know, keep you on top of your finances or hyper aware of the risk you're taking? And this is also a very common one, keep you stuck in a situation that you no longer love, but that is safe because it is familiar.

[00:34:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or paradoxically, give him a sense of control. Because if he can imagine the absolute worst case scenario, maybe it becomes less threatening and he can sort of play with that outcome in his mind and see, "Ah, you know, yeah. But that terrible thing could happen. But it's really not so bad now that I think about it," but actually I guess that just collapses back into safety again.

[00:35:03] Jordan Harbinger: I think it probably does, yeah. I don't mean to be overly simplistic, but just to save you like 12 weeks of circling the answer in therapy. That's probably what this fear comes down to. Staying safe versus wandering into the wilderness, which is unknown, but appreciating how that operates uniquely within you, given your childhood, your needs, your feelings now. I think that would probably help a lot.

[00:35:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: I also have a hunch that his fear about going broke is partly a reflection of his confidence and his abilities—

[00:35:31] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: —and his value in the market because, look, maybe he doesn't trust that other companies or clients are going to see his value when he starts looking. So he's worried about ever being able to make money again.

[00:35:41] Jordan Harbinger: Totally. Look, I can see that when I had to restart the business, I was like, "Oh no, I'm never going to be able to podcast again." It turned out to be kind of a ridiculous thought. If he's feeling shaky about meeting new people, interviewing, betting on himself, I'm sure that hooks into other fears about his prospect. And it's a short trip from there to, "I'm going to be living in a tent under the 101 by the time Biden's out of office. It's real easy to do that."

[00:36:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. And you know, to be fair, that isn't totally crazy. He might come by that fear, honestly, because he's been at the same company for 13 years. A lot of people have cycled through three, four, five jobs in that time, and those people have a little more experience to say, "I've taken a chance, I've quit before. I always land on my feet. I know that the market needs somebody like me. I'm going to be fine." He just has a little bit of catching up to do in that department, and that's part of his journey too.

[00:36:32] And by the way, the Brad Klontz episode that we just referenced, great episode. That was episode 712. I would check that out.

[00:36:39] Jordan Harbinger: On a more practical level, I would come up with a basic plan that'll make this new chapter seem less risky. Maybe you give yourself a year, 18 months, whatever it is to find a new job. And if you haven't found one by then, yeah, you take on some work, maybe a little freelance work. It doesn't have to be your dream job, just something to supplement your savings so you don't feel like you're burning through them and you can extend your runway. Or maybe you set some simple targets to hit during your time in the wilderness, or you go to Portugal and you take castle photos like Gabriel did and sit in those little rampart things that you could spend a lot of time doing that. And Portugal is cheap, right? You could live there for quite. Hey, maybe you commit to learning one new skill or mastering one new topic a month on your own, so you're building your cred even as you take some time to yourself.

[00:37:23] For example, you could go to Spain for a year while applying for jobs and learn fluent Spanish. You could do a virtual coding bootcamp on the weekends while you volunteer for fun. The options are really endless. You don't have to sit around in your home watching Netflix and eating Chipotle. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Another thing I'd highly recommend though, is commit to reaching out to say two new people every week. So you're connecting with the folks you need to know to connect the dots in your job search. Turn that into a system. Make it a ritual. All that six-minute networking stuff, which by the way, I think that would be money for you right now, jordanharbinger.com/course, it's free. All y'all know that. If you stick with that, you'll take care of your relationships without having to worry about the networking much at all. You're not going to have to go to these stupid mixers or like try and cram it all in there.

[00:38:12] Whatever you decide to do, the point is set some intentions and habits that'll define the wilderness just a little bit. Because I think what's so scary about leaving your job is that the future is murky. And if the future is murky, then your prospects feel uncertain. And if your prospects feel uncertain, then you assume that they're going to be bad, and that's where the money stress probably kicks in. It's kind of interesting to see how that chain of thinking works, isn't it?

[00:38:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:37] Jordan Harbinger: And I know this because I do the same damn thing. Actually, we did in early episode on uncertainty. What episode was that, Gabriel?

[00:38:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: We did, yeah, that was episode four.

[00:38:47] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, wow. So I knew it was early.

[00:38:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: It was early days.

[00:38:49] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Early, early days. And the reason we did it is because I was in the middle of it then. You can hear it in my voice. So—

[00:38:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally.

[00:38:55] Jordan Harbinger: You can enjoy that little show. Beyond that, I'd say try to use this time to get a little friendlier with uncertainty. Start by listening with that podcast. But man, if I've learned anything from the last decade or so, it's that uncertainty is a constant. It comes in waves. Even when you think your life is stable and well-defined. It's not, and it's not supposed to be. That's just how this game works. The more you can learn to embrace instability and work with it, the more at peace you're going to be, the more energy you'll have to put into the things that actually matter, and the more opportunities you'll create for yourself. Not in some woo-woo way, you know where I stand on that stuff. But in a very practical, "this is how to play the game of life" kind of way, and I'm excited for you, man. Congrats on all your hard work. Good luck. Enjoy the time off.

[00:39:41] You know who would love, by the way, to have a piece of your five-year runway? The sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:39:50] This episode is sponsored in part by Peloton. A lot of people ask me how I'm able to stick to my fitness routine, especially since I have such a bananas schedule. Must be those six-pack abs I'm showing off. For me, it's really creating a routine that is sustainable and can be duplicated on an ongoing basis. Consistency is the key, right? And Peloton helps me have a sustainable fitness routine because there are thousands of classes to choose from. It's also 24/7. I've always got time for it. I might only have 15 minutes in between calls, but I can still fit in a Peloton class. The instructors are next level motivating. They do inspire you to push further even when you're ready to quit. They're funny. That's kind of important to me when I'm doing a workout for some reason. Peloton is really famous for their bikes, but they also make a top-notch rowing machine that stores upright, which you think no big deal, but when you try to have a rower on the floor, you'll be so glad this thing goes upright. Rowing is a great full body workout. It's low impact. You can work 86 percent of your muscles in only 15 minutes. It's funny that they measure that if you're a newbie to rowing, the Peloton Row has sensors that can track your movements to determine whether you're performing each stroke correctly. There's a little like ghost guy that shows you how your form is doing and it warns you if you're doing something wrong that could injure you or whatever. It's also going to neat feature called Form Assist. That's actually the little ghost guy. It's a real-time indication of how to improve your rowing stroke. In the class as well as a detailed post-class breakdown. So it'll show you, "Hey, here's where you're kind of messing up. Here's where you're doing really well." Really kind of a fun way to get better at fitness. And the Peloton Row has definitely helped me, yeah, get towards those six-pack abs, the dad bod, and right now is the perfect time to get rowing with Peloton Row, we can promise you've never rowed like this before. Peloton Row offers a variety of classes for all levels and game-changing features that help you get rowing or advance what you can already do. Explore Peloton Row and financing options at onepeloton.com/row.

[00:41:39] This episode is also sponsored by FlyKitt. So I discovered FlyKitt, which is a true solution to jet lag. I traveled to Bhutan a couple of years ago and now I've been using FlyKitt on every international travel because it works so well. I don't get jet lag like other people that don't take it. It's not just some stupid energy drink or a pill you take. On my Bhutan trip, the lead recommended everybody get a FlyKitt, and I got one. It arrived in this neat, small, organized packet with everything you need. There's an app that goes with it. And at first, honestly, I was kind of pissed off. I was like, "Oh, it's a bunch of vitamins. I could buy these on Amazon. Who cares?" Then I went and followed the schedule. When you take this vitamins, when you drink the stuff, when you do all the little mini naps in the app and everything, when you enter the app, when you want to wake up, it's all sort of scheduled for you, tells you when to eat, when to take, and when I followed the schedule to Bhutan and back and I did not get jet lag, everyone else has fallen asleep at like 4:00 p.m. They're never recovered through the whole basically 10-day trip. I am a true convert. It's not just placebo. This stuff works crazy well, every single time I have tested screwing it up and not using it — trust me, there's a big difference. I've become friends with the founder. He laughed at how upset I was at the beginning because he's also a skeptic, very scientific guy. He explained that FlyKitt is based on research with Special Forces. Those guys are using this flying causes inflammation, which contributes to brain fog, low energy, gut issues, and a whole lot more. And FlyKitt leverages cutting-edge AI technology, of course, like everything does, but to precisely time, light, proprietary supplementation, eating, sleep, like I mentioned, perfectly tuned to your physiology, your travel schedule, your flights to solve the inflammation and circadian rhythm challenges. All the tools you need are included in the FlyKitt pack and the FlyKitt app gives you step-by-step instructions with reminders so you can arrive feeling great. It's really easy to use. I highly recommend it.

[00:43:32] Jen Harbinger: Check out FlyKitt at FlyKitt-with two T's.com, so that's F-L-Y-K-I-T-T.com to get a FlyKitt for 15 percent off with code JORDAN, FlyKitt-with two T's.com promo code JORDAN.

[00:43:46] Jordan Harbinger: Definitely try this out on your next trip and hit me up. Let me know what you think.

[00:43:50] If you'd like this episode of Feedback Friday, you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the discounts, all the codes are in one place, jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the search box on the website as well. Thank you so much in advance for supporting those who support us. Helping our sponsors really does help us directly. It keeps us going. We're able to do this week after week because of those of you who support those who support us. That was really convoluted, but you know what I mean.

[00:44:22] Now, back to Feedback Friday.

[00:44:25] All right, next up.

[00:44:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, my small company of 10 people recently hired a new guy and many of us are struggling to work with him. At first, everything seemed okay. He was just a little awkward and didn't quite fit in. Then, things escalated. He's made some mistakes, which is fine and expected, but when he receives any kind of correction, no matter how gentle, he snaps, hangs up the phone or walks off to his office. He usually leaves the conversation before we can fully explain what he did wrong and train him to do it correctly. There seems to be a gender issue at play here too. He reacts even more poorly when a woman corrects him, even when he asks for help. I also recently learned that he treats his professors in his graduate program similarly. A friend of mine is in his cohort and told me he was an hour and a half late to one of their classes, interrupted the professor while they were giving instruction. Then, spent at least 10 minutes telling them to move on from what they were saying because no one needed the instructions for the next assignment. There have been enough incidents now that our supervisor and HR had to step in. They had a talk with him on his 30-day review, and things have improved slightly. Now, he'll come to me asking for information, but when I give him answers, he flat out tells me I'm wrong. I've tried to encourage him. I've tried to tell him we all just want to help him. But his ego is so fragile, he'll do anything to protect it. I now just limit my interactions with him as best I can. But we're so small that ignoring him completely isn't an option. How would you handle this? Signed, Debating Whether to Ghost Him, Roast Him, or Toast Him Before I Go Postal.

[00:46:02] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh, this guy sounds like a real piece of work. If I worked in a small office with somebody like this, I would lose my sh*t. This guy just sounds like such an a-h*le. It sounds like you've been remarkably diplomatic with him through all this, so kudos to you, but you've got a lot more grace than I do when it comes to personalities like this. I really cannot stand this type of BS.

[00:46:23] So look, it's hard to know exactly what's going on with this guy. He might be incredibly narcissistic and fragile, as you said. Certainly, what it looks like at first glance. He might also be pretty misogynistic. He definitely sounds like he's got a thing about women, maybe both. It's also possible that he's got some kind of disorder. Who knows? Maybe he has, I don't know, oppositional defiant disorder or something like that, which makes it a little more understandable, but of course not excusable. I mean, he's still just being a jackass at work. Obviously, we can't know for sure, but I bring all of this up because, well, the guy's troubled. He's doing this in school too, so it's not just about you guys. He just sounds like a man-child. He can't get out of his own way, and I guess I feel for him on some level, but I wouldn't want to be around him on any level.

[00:47:08] The fact is his personality, his style, it's making him a bad employee and a terrible colleague, done and done. In an office this small, if one person is awful, that means 10 percent of your team sucks and that can infect your entire job, your entire company. So at this point, since you guys have already tried to help him personally, and he hasn't even been receptive, if this guy continues to compromise the company's performance, or he's making you guys so miserable that you aren't even doing your best work anymore, then I would go back to your boss and talk to them about this. And maybe you bring a few colleagues along too so they understand it's not just a beef you've got with this guy, it's not a you thing. The company already knows, this guy's a problem, so this is not going to be a surprise. But I would tell them the ways in which this guy is holding the company back, making the office unpleasant, damaging morale.

[00:47:57] And I would keep things focused on the impact of his behavior and not just leave it at like, "Oh, this guy's a real jerk. I don't like him personally. He makes me feel weird." Don't leave it at that, that kind of thing. Your company has to understand that the way this guy acts is creating negative results for the company and maybe even making some of you consider leaving. Although again, I'm pretty sure they know that and they're trying to do the right thing and give the guy a chance. You know, companies often give people like 16 chances before they can someone for better or for worse. But the whole point of giving somebody a chance is to see if they can turn the fricking ship around. And he's not doing that. He's just snapping at you and telling you you're wrong and then running back to his office like a little baby.

[00:48:40] So as far as I'm concerned, he had a fair chance and he blew it. So now your company has to decide whether he should stay, although candidly, I do sort of feel bad for this guy. He sounds like a pathetic turd and also because he probably doesn't even understand how terrible he is. He sounds like he's just so socially inept that he's so far from getting it.

[00:49:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, no self-awareness. It's funny, I was just talking to a friend of mine who is a film producer. She's making a movie right now, and they were assigned a production executive who sounds a lot like this guy. Just super combative, insensitive, terrible at communicating. And it actually got to a point where this person was compromising the movie, like it was going to be a bad movie as a result of this person. So they eventually had to tell the studio, "Look, we've tried our best. Like, we're pretty easygoing, but this person is a real problem." Like it's not even clear. They understand how movies are made. It's kind of poisoning the whole project. And the studio talked to the executive and apparently the executive got a little better, but not really. And long story short, the studio ended up letting this person go. And my friend felt really guilty about it for a while because it was clear that this executive just had no idea how to deal with people. But then, my friend had to remind herself like, yeah, this is awful. But the reality is that this just isn't the job for them.

[00:49:58] Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's exactly right. it can be true that this guy deserves their compassion and that he's just not meant for this job, and that's fair.

[00:50:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:06] Jordan Harbinger: You don't send an alcoholic beat poet to perform surgery. Why would you send a combative woman-hating, know-it-all manchild to work in a 10-person company that requires close collaboration with people that he obviously doesn't see as his equal? It's just not a good fit.

[00:50:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's a good point. I also think it's possible that he needs to get fired from a job or two in order to realize, you know, "Wow, like I might have a problem."

[00:50:29] Jordan Harbinger: This is me.

[00:50:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: "I need to work on this," right? Because these colleagues working around him and avoiding him, uh, ultimately that's not helping him either.

[00:50:35] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. They might even be empowering or at least enabling him.

[00:50:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:50:39] Jordan Harbinger: And allowing him to continue being a nightmare. So my advice, yes, try to help this guy see how he's getting in his own way and how he can work on all this stuff, but if he can't even engage with you, which it sounds like he really can, it sounds like he can't even handle it. Tell your boss and HR how this continues to be a significant problem and just let them handle it. It's their responsibility to make sure that the right people are on the team and that everyone is productive, and everyone is happy, and everyone is safe, and hey, looking ahead, maybe you ask your company if a few of you guys can meet new candidates during interviews to make sure they're a cultural fit or something like that. I mean, it's a 10-person company. That seems pretty damn important. It's not Google where there's a zillion people and people coming in and out. Honestly, after dealing with this guy, I don't think they're going to make the same mistake again in a company this small, but you never know.

[00:51:26] I'm sorry this is happening. I know it's stressful. Hopefully, it'll be over soon. Just get this guy's ass out the door and good luck.

[00:51:33] All right, what's next?

[00:51:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, yesterday, my boyfriend found a Xiaomi hair dryer online and wanted to purchase it.

[00:51:41] Jordan Harbinger: That's a Chinese manufacturer, by the way, if you don't know, compared to Sony that makes like everything phones and hair dryers.

[00:51:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: I tried sharing with him what I've learned from your show about China's government, acts of genocide, and other forms of corruption. I told him how I'm trying to avoid Chinese goods because I don't want to support the Chinese government. He understands, but he feels it's pointless to avoid Chinese products because they're everywhere and the companies that we like manufacture there. He actually got a little angry. I think he really liked that hair dryer, and I ruined it for him. So I decided to back off at this topic for a little while, but I want to help him see that this matters. How can I respond to his pessimistic argument? Signed, The Conscientious Coiffure.

[00:52:23] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this is an interesting fight for a couple to have. I guess it's better than fighting about, I don't know whose turn it is to take the trash out this week, or how you load the dishwasher. That's what happens when you listen to The Jordan Harbinger Show your petty fights with your significant other get a lot more sophisticated.

[00:52:39] But I've got to say, Gabe, I'm chuckling a little bit about her boyfriend getting so worked up over a freaking hair dryer, just for some reason it's given me bridezilla from question one vibes. Not that her boyfriend is a monster or anything, it's just, it's funny that he's the one who wants a hair dryer, not her.

[00:52:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, right.

[00:52:54] Jordan Harbinger: And he is so passionate about this one appliance.

[00:52:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. She's like, "Can we just get a Conair from the States?" And he's like, "No, it has to be the Xiaomi. It's the perfect shade of black."

[00:53:03] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. "My hand fits the handle perfectly." Bro, all hair dryers are basically the same. They dry your hair. Maybe just get the one that doesn't support slave labor, directly.

[00:53:13] But look, this is tricky. Your boyfriend does have a point. Chinese goods are every. And the components that they make are in all of the things that are not necessarily also made there. So Right, it's almost impossible to avoid. They do make some very useful, very inexpensive products over there. And even if you guys don't buy this hair dryer, other people are going to get that one. It's not like you and your boyfriend are going to end corruption or the Uyghur genocide by yourselves. Plus your boyfriend deserves to have those luscious locks of his fall just right. And maybe, maybe the Xiaomi is the only thing that can get it done. So I get it, this is a collective action problem. It's not easy to avoid questionable goods completely. Sometimes it's actually impossible. And this ultimately comes down to personal ethics.

[00:53:57] So if you want to help your boyfriend come around to your point of view, which I obviously share, so I'm biased, but I think it's the right thing to do, I would bring this up again when the moment is right and I would frame it as gently and non-judgmentally as possible. I wouldn't do it when he is about to click checkout on an Amazon basket full of dirt-cheap appliances manufactured in Guangzhou or whatever. That's probably the worst time to bring it up. When he's excited, his consumer's brain is turned on and I definitely wouldn't bring it up while he is blow drying his hair. Like, "Are you enjoying that Xiaomi? Children's tears went into that lacquer. I hope you're happy." Just lecturing him over the sound of the hair dryer, bouncing off the bathroom tile.

[00:54:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: I felt like I was in their bathroom. That was amazing.

[00:54:39] Jordan Harbinger: I would just bring this up casually when you guys are hanging out and I would say something like, "Listen about the whole Chinese goods thing, I know we disagreed about the hair dryer and that's fine. Maybe we have different opinions about this, but I want to share why I think it's important to support more ethical manufacturers or more ethical countries because I used to not care at all, and now I've learned a bit about it and it's changed the way that I view these decisions. And I'd love to talk about it as a couple because I really do believe these choices matter." And then you can fill them in on what you've learned, how to avoid tainted goods, and do your best not to be too high and mighty or finger waggy about it because nobody likes to be lectured too. That can make it harder for someone to stay open to thinking about things in a new way.

[00:55:23] Keep it brief, talk it out, acknowledge his stance, help him see that yes, those goods are everywhere and yeah, they can be tempting and yeah, it's hard to bring about real change, but if enough people start to actually care about this, it can make a difference. It's like recycling. And it's not much harder to find more ethical goods. You just have to make a small effort to be more diligent and maybe you pay a couple of extra dollars more. I know that can be a tough one to swallow too.

[00:55:48] There's actually one tool that makes this a lot easier. We've talked about this before, the Cultivate plugin for Chrome. They're not a sponsor, but I've got a little affiliate code thing here that I'll throw in the show notes. It basically shows you where sellers are located, especially on Amazon, and then it shows you United States-based alternatives. We've got an affiliate code for this. Like I said, go to wecultivate.us/jordan. We'll drop that in the show notes for you too, like I said. Maybe just show your boyfriend how easy it is and he'll be like, "Oh, great, so I don't even have to do the legwork myself." You're not going to be sitting there doing 18 searches to find one. You search for anything you want, and he'll say, this one's made in China. Here are 13 US-made alternatives. Some are for pickup today at Walmart, some are on Amazon, some are on different websites. That's what the plugin does. It's really easy. That's why the plugin is so great.

[00:56:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: I also think it would be cool if she could help him appreciate that he will feel better about his products, knowing he didn't get them from a company or through a country that supports some like really horrific stuff.

[00:56:47] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, for sure. I know this was a big thing for me, finally connecting what I had learned and what I felt to my experience of using this stuff. Like, can your boyfriend really enjoy that feeling of hot air blasting his luscious locks when he thinks about kids screwing bezzles into smartphones or whatever? I mean, I know it's dark, but that's really what it comes down to.

[00:57:06] Honestly, the most important thing with the China issue is to be aware, try to act responsibly and just vote for reps and presidents with sensible China policies, which is getting easier and easier, even as much as the left and the right, like to throw shade on each other for China policy. The presidential candidates are mostly united on this stuff. I mean it really is, there's a lot of awareness in government. There's a lot of people doing the same thing, continuing the same China policies as the last guy. It's just getting a lot easier.

[00:57:33] Ultimately, huge changes do need to happen on the macro level, so I hope you get through to him, and if you don't, it's okay. I let it go for now. Just keep shopping ethically on your own. Maybe watching you do it will inspire him to be more thoughtful over time, and maybe he needs to listen to the Nury Turkel podcast on the Uyghur genocide. That was episode 730, by the way. Model it for him. Remind him now and again why it matters. Maybe he'll come around on his own. And I love that you're thinking about this so deliberately. We really do need more people like you.

[00:58:05] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out David Lieberman and Jonah Berger if you haven't yet. Really great stuff to start off 2023.

[00:58:15] And of course, if you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships, I use software, I use systems, and I use tiny habits every single day. Our Six-Minute Networking course is teaching you how to do all of that same stuff for free. It's over on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty. Build those relationships before you need them. I wish I knew that stuff 20 years ago. It's been great for my business and my personal life. Again, all for free, jordanharbinger.com/course.

[00:58:45] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, and discount codes, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please do support those who support this show. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. Connect with me on LinkedIn, if you will. You can also find Gabe on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi or on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.

[00:59:08] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and yes, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:59:42] Here's what you should check out next on The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[00:59:45] Well, a lot of people hear the name Pussy Riot, and they think, all right, what is this? You're just trying to get shock value. Can you tell us the beginning, a little bit of what Pussy Riot is? When I was reading in the book and you said you just made it up for a lecture, I was like, there's got to be more to it than that.

[00:59:58] Nadya Tolokonnikova: No, seriously.

[00:59:58] Jordan Harbinger: Not really?

[00:59:59] Nadya Tolokonnikova: Oh, seriously. They decided to punish us. They opened a criminal case and in two weeks after the performance, we were arrested. We knew how to hide from the cops and for a week, dozens of cops were looking for us. And when they caught us, finally they were so happy.

[01:00:18] Jordan Harbinger: You made them look like fools.

[01:00:19] Nadya Tolokonnikova: It's our profession.

[01:00:20] Jordan Harbinger: How does it feel to have these world leaders who are in these private chambers with their tea and their bodyguards, and you're sitting in a Russian prison and they're like, "These 22-year-old women, they're screwing my world up, man. I got to do something about this. Look at how bad they are."

[01:00:35] Nadya Tolokonnikova: I was really happy that Putin is in trouble because of us, because they definitely didn't expect anything like that. My mother thinks that I need to immigrate, run immediately.

[01:00:47] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You still live in Russia. I can't even believe it.

[01:00:49] Nadya Tolokonnikova: Yeah.

[01:00:50] Jordan Harbinger: You wrote, the future has never seemed so full of enriched and wonderful possibilities as when I was in a labor camp and literally had nothing but dreams. What gives you the strength to go forward when you're worried about — are they going to try to blind me? Are they going to try to beat me up? I mean, they were highly abusive to you while you were behind bars.

[01:01:08] Nadya Tolokonnikova: I just preferred not to think about it.

[01:01:10] For more from Pussy Riot and world-renowned artist, Nadya Tolokonnikova, and her time in Russian prison, and of course, their crusade against Vladimir Putin's regime, check out episode 118 on The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[01:01:24] Once again, special thanks to Peloton for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show. We really appreciate your support.

[01:01:32] This episode is sponsored in part by The God Pod. Oh my God, this promo's going to get me canceled. You ever wish you could ask God, what the hell is going on? If you're ready for a chat with the big guy upstairs, check out this comedy podcast called The God Pod. After 6,000 years of running the universe, God realizes that Satan is kicking his butt. And like so many other people in moments of crisis, decided to start a podcast to smite the forces of evil. Oh man, I'm already saying, the emails coming in about this. Co-hosted by BFFs, God, Jesus, Moses, Mary Magdalene, Psyche, and Satan, The God Pod is a twice-weekly opportunity for God to hang out with his fellow deities and talk about what's going on down below in the human world. So bring your Bibles and your sense of humor — there's an episode with Satan's status updates on what the Queen is up to — oh my god — and God's recent interview with Scott Dikkers, the founder of The Onion — that's more appropriate, probably — you're guaranteed to have an unholy time. Check out The God Pod on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And please don't unsubscribe from my show.