Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Jason DeFillippo (@jpdef) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week!
Friend of the show and Entrepreneur on Fire John Lee Dumas (@johnleedumas) joins us to help a listener begin anew in a new city.
If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at email@example.com. Now, let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- If there’s such a thing as remorseful flirtation, how should you feel to be on the receiving end of it?
- As old-timers who have already been there and done that, how do we recommend you live your twenties to their fullest?
- The management at your current job barely acknowledges you and it’s time to move on. Is it appropriate in this case to give notice by email?
- Will setting boundaries for your narcissistic sibling have any positive effect on your relationship, or should you just cut them off altogether?
- What’s the best way to bid a fair-weather friend adieu after they’ve made it clear that visiting you on your almost-deathbed was a real inconvenience?
- Even though you bounced back from your layoff with a huge pay increase and promotion potential galore, you miss your old team and want to stay on good terms. How do you speed up the healing process to make this possible?
- When you have a lifelong habit of rejecting people before they reject you — to the point that you’ve never dated and you don’t have any close friends — what can you do to become more approachable?
- When moving to a foreign city to reboot your personal and professional life, what’s the best way to put down roots, make new connections, and get your brand noticed?
- Recommendation of the Week: The American Meme
- Quick shoutout to Corey Anderson!
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Jason on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks.
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
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The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reminds us to let someone else drive if we have a few drinks at that holiday party — and make sure our friends do the same. Drive sober or get pulled over!
On Penn’s Sunday School, irreligious libertines discuss the week’s news with a somewhat unruly congregation. Check it out on PodcastOne here!
Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!
Resources from This Episode:
- TJHS 135: Joe Navarro | How to Identify and Protect Yourself from Harmful People
- TJHS 136: Spencer Greenberg | Cultivating Clearer Thinking for Cloudy Times
- TJHS 117: Robert Greene | What You Need to Know about the Laws of Human Nature
- Early Work: 1970-1979 by Patti Smith
- How to Start over in a New City by Jordan Harbinger
- Entrepreneurs on Fire with John Lee Dumas
- The American Meme
- The Fat Jewish at Instagram
Transcript for How to Cope with Remorseful Flirtation - Feedback Friday (Episode 137)
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday, I'm your host, Jordan harbinger. I'm here with producer Jason DeFillippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We love having conversations with our fascinating guests and this week we had former FBI Agent Joe Navarro. He's known for body language and nonverbal communication, and this time we had a Deep Dive into Dangerous Personalities. His book will keep you up at night, and Joe outlines the predatory personality types from run of the mill narcissists to violent abusers and even killers, and how we can keep ourselves and our loved ones safe from these people. He also tells us what to look for and how to counteract their manipulative ways, not the most cheery topic, but one that could actually save your life or the life of someone you love. Later in the week, we had Spencer Greenberg who discusses a logical fallacies and ways to clarify our thinking so we can get better at decision making and keep you on your toes psychologically.
[00:00:52] The skill of noticing bad logic and misleading arguments and invalid evidence is extremely important. This skill can not only help you avoid being misled by others, but when used properly, it can actually help you avoid misleading yourself. This is the operating system I wish I had when I was younger and I'm really excited to have him come and present this to all of us here on the show. Of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guests insights as well as our experiences and insights directly to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations with you and that's what we're going to do here today on Feedback Friday. You can reach us email@example.com if you can keep the questions concise, that does help us out. And Jason, you know what I found out recently?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:33] What'd you find out recently, Jordan?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:35]Someone told me that they went to a taping of the daily show with Trevor Noah and someone said, “Hey, coming from this other country, South Africa, how did you learn how to become accustomed to US culture and the nuances of communication in America?” And he said that he listens to this show--
Jason DeFillippo: [000:01:53] What?!
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:52] And he recommended it to the audience. I know! I was pretty excited about that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:01:56] No way. I love Trevor Noah especially love his Netflix specials. He's got a new one that I haven't seen yet, but his previous ones were fantastic. I love that guy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:03] I was pretty excited to find out that Trevor Noah listens to the show like that's pretty cool. So Trevor, come on buddy. Let's do an episode. What do you say?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:11] Yeah, man. Come on the show. That'll be fun.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:13] Yes!
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:14] Fun, fun, fun. We'll come to you.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:15] We'll come to you. That's right. As always, we've got some fun ones and some doozies here on Feedback Friday. I'm ready to channel my inner Dr. Drew today. Jason, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:25] Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I've got a weird one for you. I work in a very public space, so I meet tons of people. I also work in a small city, so a good portion of these people I see repeatedly. I'm naturally friendly and can be flirting with women. Most of the time it's respectful and just for fun. I keep it in the compliment realm, trying to avoid leading anyone on that I'm not genuinely interested in. I'll say clever things about their outfit or smile. Never things like if you were my girl or crap like that. So here's the thing that's been confusing the hell out of me. Over the years, I've had lots of women tell me something along the lines of, I wish I was with you. These are all women I know, but have never been involved with. Here are a few examples. When I asked one woman how her boyfriend was, she said, “I wish I met you first.” Another gem, after a woman had a child and I asked her how the kid was. She said, “I wish you were the father.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:15] What? That is ridiculous. That is insane.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:20] You know, if somebody told me this at a party, I'd be like, “Dude, you're just making this up.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:24] Yeah, exactly.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:25] The most recent one, a newlywed said, “I should have married you.” These are all women I've never dated or even slept with. I wasn't even in the running to date, marry or impregnate any of them. At most, I'm a friendly acquaintance. They don't say these things flirtatiously and it doesn't feel like they're hitting on me. They say it almost remorsefully and matter of fact like it's just something I should know. Usually I respond with something blunt like, “Well, you didn't,” and I changed the subject.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:51] Way to reject them. It's like a dropkick like, “Well, you’re too late sucker.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:57] Harsh.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:58] Yeah.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:03:59] So harsh. I've talked with my friends, male and female and they have no feedback for me. They think it's just as weird as I do. A few times it's made things really awkward because the boyfriend or husband were right there when they say these things to me, and they assume I'm doing something with her on the side, which I certainly every time am not. I could understand if they were an ex-girlfriend or something, but again, these are all women I barely know. How am I supposed to react to these statements and what am I supposed to do with this information? I mean is it a compliment? Is it a reflection on me? Are these women just immature, unstable, whatever? Again, I am just super confused on this one. Thank you for any feedback or thoughts you guys have. Signed, Unhappy Woman Magnet.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:43] Yeah, this is weird. This is just bizarre somehow. I'm not sure even what to do with those. They're probably just reflecting on their lives. They're definitely doing in a way that's a bit inappropriate, especially if the guy is there, but I think that they do this with you because you're safe. You're not really in their lives, you can't really cause them any problems. I wouldn't read into it other than the idea that people enjoy interacting with you. Congratulations. You're good at making other people feel good about themselves. That's great. Often when people flirts shamelessly with us, despite us not knowing them that well, it's because they're getting an emotional release in a way that is more or less consequence free, and if they flirt with someone at work like this, it can cause massive issues in the office. If they've worked with someone at the gym like this, it could escalate or make things awkward over there. If they flirt with a guy that runs events, it stays as flirtatious banter with the guy, it never gets anywhere so it can be fun without having any real consequences. And again, if you're great at making your customers feel good, but beyond this, I wouldn't read into it too much. Just enjoy the attention, my friend. I think you're fine. But yeah, just be aware that you're not supposed to take this any further, of course. And I think you're just really safe, and that's great. Good for you. But I wouldn't worry about it too much. I wouldn't read into this too much. I think some of these women are a little strange with the whole, I wish you were the father. That's a little strange. That's a little bizarre.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:09] Yeah. I think just be a sounding board and just, I wouldn't smack them down like you did, but that's just me.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:16] Yeah.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:16] Say “Hey, maybe in our next life we'll hook up.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:19] Yeah.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:20] Something like that.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:21] I feel like the, “Well, you didn't.” That’s weird.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:24] Yeah, that just seems kind of mean.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:26] Too bad for you.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:27] Yeah, I was waiting. Where were you? Come on.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:31] All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:06:32] Dear Jordan and Jen, I don't get to answer this one. How does one live their 20s to their fullest? I just turned 22, and I'm about to graduate college in the spring. I love going to concerts, traveling, clubbing, and being adventurous. However, having these fun experiences are costly and money, health and time. I could be saving money, learning a new language, and reading a lot more. If you could repeat your 20s what percent of the time in a year would you spend having fun and being reckless versus being responsible? How would you integrate these two? I hope Jen can give her input too. Some people say your 20s are the best time to be reckless and do whatever you want before it's too late. Others say that your 20s are the best time to build a career and a future. What would you say? From Clueless 22.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:15] Well, you don't get to answer this one, Jason. It's not designed--
Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:17] I know. I’m just going to get some coffee. I'll talk to you in a bit.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:20] Not addressed to you apparently.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:22] Yeah. I was never in my 20s so just just text me when you're done.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:26] All right. You got it.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:27] Hit me on Snapchat.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:28] That's right on Snapchat. I agree with some of the idea that being reckless can and should happen in your 20s, it's important to get that stuff out of your system for sure. I'd say mix things up and blend them together. For example, when I was younger, I moved to a lot of different countries and went out like every single night and partied. I walked around, I went out alone a lot. I took language classes for months at a time, but I was in Ukraine or Mexico or Israel or Germany or whatever, so I came back with language skills, life skills, friends, et cetera. I always pitied the people who stayed on campus all summer, worked at some bar, and were just drinking with the same people every single night, and all they had to show for it at the end of the summer was like a beer belly and some hookup stories. I always thought that was just kind of a waste, and you should definitely enjoy your 20s. Spend lots of time figuring out what you do enjoy doing, what you do not enjoy doing, make some mistakes, waste time while you can afford to do so. I look back at my 20s, and I think like, “Oh God, I spent way too much time going out doing all this.” I wasn't even having fun doing it. I thought I had to do it. So once you start getting that feeling, just stop doing it because you're not missing anything. At the same time, you can lay the foundations for your 30s during this time by building skills. Even if you don't know what skills or what they'll be used for, you're never going to go, “Oh, I'm so bummed that I learned Russian.” Or “Oh, it’s such a bummer I moved to New York and I did this job that really didn't teach me anything other than having a job and living in the city.” That's great. Good. Get that out of your system.
[00:09:00] And Jen’s input, she says, my lame answer is that it's all about balance. But Jordan, how do you know you're striking a good balance in the moment with all these new festivals, party boats, travel destinations, and friend invitations? It's hard to say no. Yeah, you get FOMO, fear of missing out. She says “It's good to experience things. Go to a few festivals, but not every single one.” Travel but with intention. If you stay in a country longer, learn a language or take on a part time gig or keep the trips short and explore the country. Jen says she had fun but I was always the responsible one, i.e., the designated driver. By the way, never drink and drive and I don't feel like I missed out on anything. I do wish I had more work experience and took on more internships before graduating college. You'll find out what you like and don't like doing before you commit to a certain career path, and I think it sounds like we're on the same page and I think that's really wise. It's just as important to spend your 20s finding out what you don't like, trying things that you think you don't care about, like going out all the time, just to make sure that in 10 years you don't go, “I should have gone out more,” because then you'll end up with this weird crisis. You'll end up with some regrets. But I think if you build skills while you're doing this, there are ways to do all of this while building skills. You want to go out and party a bunch, fine, moved to Berlin or something for a summer, go out a bunch, but then also learn German and make a bunch of friends. You can do all this at the same time.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:22] I don't think anybody on their deathbed says, “Man, I wish I had gone to the club more often.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:28] Of course.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:28] Oh wait, wait. I'm not allowed to -- I'm not allowed to chime in on this.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:30] No. Be quiet over there. This is addressed Jen and I.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:34] All right, moving on. Hey Jason, Jordan, and Jen. I recently got a new job and I'm starting on January 7th. It's a great growth opportunity, but it also has a lot to do with the way management has treated me since I've gotten my current job since I'm the one leaving. Part of the program I was in involved having a mentor that I met regularly, usually once a month. However, this person canceled almost every single one of our meetings last minute or just forgot and wouldn't be in the office. One time, I sat near his desk for like 20 minutes to find out he was on vacation that week. That's kind of rude.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:05] Yeah.
Jason DeFillippo: [0:11:06] My current manager has canceled most of our semi-monthly one on one meetings and I haven't met with him in about three months. I've gone weeks at a time without even seeing him and I'm concerned about not being able to get five minutes to tell him that I'm leaving. I was wondering if it would be appropriate in this instance to give notice via email. I was also wondering if I should say my last day is the 28th of December, or if I should say my last day, the 4th of January. My dad recommended giving notice as far in advance as possible, since companies will pay the notice period from his experience. Thanks, My Boss Is A Ghost.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:37] Well, the fact that your managers and mentors haven't met with you, I put mentors in air quotes, of course. This is a red flag that they don't really value you in the organization, nor do they see you on an upward trajectory. This may seem disorganized on its face, but the truth is if someone cancels all the meetings and forgets to tell you that they're on vacation, they just do not prioritize their time with you, nor do they even notice you on their calendar. In fact, I'm pretty sure you're not even on the calendar in the first place because who the hell goes on vacation and goes, “Guess I don't need to look at my calendar and see what meetings I might be missing next week.” I mean, hello?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:12:13] Seriously?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:14] What the hell? So this is not a company in which you'll be getting to the top of management at any time, so it's best that you leave and find something new. Being ignored at work is not a good sign. Most companies can't wait to leverage talent after all they're paying you to be there. They may not be efficient, they might be a little absent minded about it, but they're not going to just cancel every opportunity to bring you upward or meet with you. That's weird. Especially if they're not rescheduling this or going, “Oh my gosh, so sorry, let's do the meeting anyway. I'm going to cancel this or let's stay later.” I mean, this is just weird.
[00:12:44] Generally, I would say by the way, companies will honor the two week notice and they'll pay you for the last two weeks. Even if your employer doesn't allow you to work during that time period. However, there's no federal law which requires the employer to pay employees or even allow them to work during that two week notice period, which means they can decide that your last day is the day you gave notice, which is something you should be prepared for. So doing it over the holiday is great because worst case scenario, they don't want you to come in. Best case scenario, you get paid for a bunch of time, much of what you're going to have off anyway. But this is a bad sign if nobody cares enough to even meet with you or even notices that they have a meeting with you, get out of there, you've got better places where you'll be valued more highly.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:26] Well, he's got another job lined up. He's on his way out so, and he asks about giving notice, and if it's worth doing it over email since he can't find his manager. I'm just wondering if is there no HR at this company?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:37] Oh yeah. Good point.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:38] Because generally you can just give your notice to the HR manager and say, “Peace! Out!” You don't have to find your manager, if your manager is unavailable to you, you have a responsibility to give your notice unless you just want to like pack up your stuff and leave that last day. But it sounds like these people aren't going to give you a very good recommendation anyway. So I wouldn't even like sweat the small details, but if you want to give two weeks, definitely give it to HR if you can't find your manager.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:05] Yeah, I would say definitely give notice just because it looks better and then that way if they're like didn't even give us notice, you can be like, “I can prove that I gave you notice,” and so send the email, send it to the HR manager if there isn't one, send it to your manager and send it to his manager as well or his boss if appropriate. And just make sure that you may be even BCC your personal account.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:28] Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to say. Make sure you have another record of that because otherwise it's just on their corporate servers and you don't have a copy of it. So yeah, just CC your Gmail account or your personal account.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:39] Yeah. That way they -- because what you don't want is them to complain about it and then you're like, “I can prove this.” And then you're in the point where you're like, “Hey, can you send me that email where I contradicted you and caught you in a lie.” They're never going to send you that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:50] Yeah. And I would CC not BCC because at least then they see it and it shows up on their records.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:56] Oh, good points.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:56] So if you ever have to subpoena them to get their email records, it will be clear as day on their email that you were CCed on it.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:03] Yeah, good point. I agree with that. CC your personal email and if they get annoyed with that, well, too bad you're leaving anyway.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:15:11] This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:14] This episode is sponsored in part by Sport Clips. I've told you before, I was skeptical when I got a chain barbershop as a sponsor and I went in there to test it out because I don't recommend things that I don't love and I got one of the best haircuts that I've ever gotten. Fresh cut massaging, shampoo, hot steam towel, 1800 plus locations nationwide, and they write down what you want is a haircut so that you can get that same haircut at any of their locations, which I think is pretty cool, and you can check in online sportclips.com/checkin. That's sportclips.com/checkin, and then you don't have to wait.
[00:15:44] This episode is sponsored in part by privacy.com. If you use a password manager, which you damn well should, you shouldn't be using your same password everywhere. You need privacy.com because they use separately generated credit card numbers for every site that you use so you don't end up with like random charges, random account upgrades, the inability to cancel something. They keep your personal info private while being just as convenient. They have a mobile app and a browser extension, so you can just one click generate new credit card numbers. You don't have to remember them. It's really an amazing service that I'm shocked it did not exist before, so novel. You don't have to worry about canceling free trials or subscriptions. You can set spending limits, you can make them expire whenever you want, so that alone is just worth the price of admission. Oh, by the way, it's free to use, so there is no price of admission. They make their money the same way debit cards do with the interchange fee that is paid by merchants. It's sign up, takes like two minutes. They'll give you five dollar to spend on anything you want and it is, again, it's completely free. It's actually, it's negative five dollar that's the price. You make five dollar for using it. So new customers get that five dollars for a limited time, that's free money. Go to privacy.com/jordan and sign up. That's privacy.com/jordan. I use this for everything now because I'm not trying to put my credit card info online.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:05] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals, and if you'd be so kind and please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice, it really helps us out and builds the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, head over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe, and if you're listening in overcast, please click the little star button next to the episode, that helps us out too. Now, let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:35] All right, next step.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:36] Hi Jordan and Jason. Shout out from Chicago for Jason. Wahoo! Go grab me some pot bellies please. I missed that. That is the most thing I miss from Chicago is pot bellies.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:45] The [indiscernible] [00:17:46]?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:46] Oh yes.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:47] I love that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:48] So good, so good. Anyway, moving on, I can really use your advice and input as I've never heard better, all around advice given from a single source, and I've recommended your amazing show to several people. Sounds like half of your Feedback Fridays involve family issues and I'm no exception. I've been having issues involving possibly cutting off the sister and can you use your advice. Hearing your Robert Greene episode prompted me to write in. I'm 49 going on 50 in December and celebrating with several friends in New York City in three weeks and have a 53 year old sister who is a narcissist with lots of free time that I'm considering cutting off.
[00:18:22] I have my own business and I'm doing all right. My sister walks dogs for a living and got a part time weekend job as a concierge. She divorced her rich Swiss man 20 years ago and after four years with no kids, was paid out $180,000 which he used to buy a condo and she's been and will continue to receive $1,000 a month tax free. It's not much, but her highest single income. She was fired from her concierge job after seven years at a major downtown hotel almost 10 years ago. Collected unemployment was in tears when it ran out after two years complaining it should last longer, which I disagree. At that time, I thought they were crazy for firing her, but now realize she is one of the laziest self-entitled, no boundaries, mental game playing with a touch of crazy people I know. Now he goes on to list, which is like a very long laundry list of things that she's done and you just lays it out why she's such a problem and he's like, “I've been only hanging out with her at family events and was going to start telling her friends about her alimony.” Most of her friendships last less than five years while minor 30 years plus when they're not aware of this. I'm close to just abandoning her. If the alimony ever stopped, it would be a big problem for her and as much as I've grown to despise her, I wouldn't want this. I've been ruminating over this and can really use your advice. Signing off, Setting Boundaries Or Cutting Off.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:45] Wow. Okay, so she has some serious issues. I know we've redacted some of this, but holy crap, she's like super irresponsible.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:19:52] Unbelievably, yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:54] One of the ones that I remember was she took two hours’ worth of selfies with a dog and she took like 200 of them in a car ride while not interacting with everyone, and she just sounds like kind of an envious, selfish person.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:12] Train wreck.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:12] Oh, also she did you see the one where she re-gifted him a gift he gave her 16 years ago?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:20:18] I know. Isn't that great? Patti Smith's book of poems, he gave it to her and 16 years later she pulls it out and she's like, “Oh, maybe he'll like this.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:25] Unbelievable like what a -- she sounds like a child, which actually -- this actually might make some sense here. It sounds like something happened to her as a child and you might want to investigate this with your parents and family without throwing her under the bus. Something is not right here, at all, and that won't really help you solve the problem, but it might help you get some clarity around it. You, definitely though, you need to set some boundaries. Only hanging out at family events, that's fine. Not hanging out personally for other reasons. It sounds like she's got a problem. She's definitely selfish and narcissistic. I would say she's not as self-destructive, but then I realized some of the hooking up with random guys and all this other stuff that you put in this laundry list of stuff that she does, it sounds like she's going down that road, and anyone around her is going to deal with her issues since these are only going to get worse and you can talk to her about the boundaries.
You can cut her off, but don't expect her to understand at all.
[00:21:20] That said, you don't need her to understand. You just need to be away from her and make sure that whatever boundaries you set, you write them down for yourself. That's the thing with boundaries. They often start to get flexible when things heat up. It's like a thin piece of metal or plastic. Things heat up and you're like, “Well, maybe I'll just do this and it's the holidays and blah, blah, blah. Well, I'm going to do this,” or “She really needs the money this time.” Write down the boundaries. Write them down for yourself. Put them someplace that you'll see them. The problem especially with family is we often won't follow our own rules and then later that becomes a problem. Once the other person realizes they can steamroll and manipulate us. So keep this list of boundaries on your phone, the rules of engagement, keep them on your computer, background at home, whatever. Just make sure that you can see them every day at least for a little while. And if you know that her getting cut off from her alimony or whatever is going to because you to drop everything and take her in, you need to prepare yourself for this eventuality because it sounds like if this happens, all bets are off, she's back in your life, and don't think she's going to change just because she needs you or she's living under your roof. She won't. Things will just get worse from there. And this is a tough one. This is family. Best of luck. Make sure you've got other support around you for this, whether that's other family members or even just a therapist you trust, especially if the rest of your family is enabling this crap. You don't want to rely on your family because what you don't want is her to get to them and then them to get to you and then suddenly you're like, “How did she move in? What happened?”
[00:22:51] Sometimes the problem with setting boundaries is that we ended up talking ourselves out of keeping those boundaries on occasion and having the right support network around us can keep us from doing this to ourselves. So definitely find some people that don't have an interest in you helping her. So I would say family might not be the best way to do this. Getting a therapist you trust who doesn't -- who doesn't owe your family anything, who doesn't have to tiptoe around this might be a good way to have a neutral third party, or not even neutral, someone who's advocating for you instead of just once the situation to end. All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:23:24] Hi, Jordan and Jason. A few months ago my husband and I decided to undergo in vitro fertilization in an effort to have children. Unfortunately, during the process of egg retrieval, I ended up getting a nasty infection which resulted in me going into septic shock having several blood transfusions, three surgeries in a deep vein thrombosis from a PICC line that went into my heart. While in the hospital, doctors and nurses had told me I was extremely lucky to be alive. I spent a month in the hospital and a month at home recovering, but I'm still not 100 percent. A friend of mine who is also a supervisor of mine at a previous job got weird when I got sick, when I was in ICU and literally on my death bed. She asked when I was going to go back to work. I told her that I didn't know and felt silent judgement on the other end of the line. We are both in sales for different companies. She came to see me a week later and promised me that every day that she was in Utah, she was going to come see me. The next day, she calls me and makes it almost competitive saying, “You know how I have eight states and you only have two?” And then goes on to say how busy she is. I didn't hear from her for several weeks and received a text that said, “I know I need to come see you but I just don't live in Utah anymore.” To me it was a bullshitty text and decided to not really keep in communication with her anymore.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:40] So this just screams narcissism, which is unbelievable. She literally can't even understand that you're in the ICU and she just views it as an obligation or inconvenience to her that she's supposed to come and see you. She is also enjoying, I think in some way that you can't compete with her as she's measuring her sense of self-worth by her situation relative to your own. That’s so weird.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:03] It’s gross. It's totally gross. It's been five months since this nightmare and I've only recently started feeling physically better. My quote unquote friend is now interested in traveling with me to other states and is adamant about knowing my schedule to travel with me. For the most part. I screened her calls since every conversation is about her and her busy schedule, but decided to return her call the other day hoping for something different. She requested, I change my schedule to meet hers, to travel up to Idaho together, which was irritating since clearly I don't matter to her. The problem is we're vendors for a lot of the same businesses and she's a former boss. Is there a possibility to have the friendship and amicably to at least have a professional working relationship? I know ending relationships with narcissists typically doesn't end well. Yeah. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, thank you both for what you do. Love the new show. Sincerely, How Do I Dump This Creep?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:00] Whew. Wow. Well, you can tell her you're not feeling well and you can't accommodate, but of course, I don't expect her to understand this.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:07] She’s not going to care.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:08] She’s not going to care. I mean unbelievable. You're in the ICU and she's thinking, “Hey, let me figure out how to leverage us.” Here's what you get to do. If you make your inability to accommodate her desires, make it about your illness or your lack of ability, she might, no guarantees, but she might be able to rationalize that you're not blowing her off or ending the friendship. Let things fade out here. One of the keys with narcissists is to become non-useful to them. In other words, if you said to her, “Look, I don't like how you're self-centered, I'm just going to do my own thing.” You've got a problem on your hands because she's going to likely view this as a threat. “How dare you? I'm so great.” You know the cognitive dissonance is going to cause a problem. If you become too weak though in her eyes to be helpful or to be some use to her. If you're not useful, she can't utilize you, then the narcissist will simply lose interest in taking advantage of you because they won't see anything that you can do for them. Don't get me wrong, she's probably still going to act like a self-centered spoiled child and be angry about this, possibly to herself, but this is a better solution to making her angry and also better than keeping someone like this in your life. So become boring and non-useful and nonutility to them, and it's likely or at least hopeful she'll leave you alone, and that's really the best you can hope for in this situation.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:31] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this. This episode is also sponsored by Robinhood. Robinhood is an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks, ETFs, options, and crypto if you're still doing that, all commission free. What I like about Robinhood is it's a very non-intimidating way for stock market newcomers to invest for the first time with some true confidence. They've got a simple intuitive, very clear design. Data's presented in an easy to digest way and I like the ease of use of the app. I think that they do well with their tutorials. So if you're kind of new to the game, you can learn a lot by using this and brokerages charge like 10 bucks sometimes for every trade. Robinhood actually doesn't charge commission fees. You can trade the stocks and keep all the profits. You can learn how to invest as you build that portfolio. Discover some new stocks, track favor companies with like a personalized newsfeed, and Robinhood is giving our listeners a free stock like Apple, Ford, or Sprint to help build your portfolio. So go sign up at jordan.robinhood.com. That's jordan.robinhood.com.
[00:28:33] This episode is sponsored in part by NHTSA. That's a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. And everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You can get in a crash, people could get hurt or killed, and this happens a ton around the holidays. And here's some surprising statistics. Almost 29 people in the United States die every single day and alcohol impaired vehicle crashes. That's one person every 50 minutes. And even though drunk driving fatalities have fallen by a third in the last three decades, drunk driving crash is still claim more than 10,000 lives each year. What a waste. Drunk driving can also have a big impact on your wallet if you're one of those people who just think through -- who was only thinking about yourself and driving drunk. Well, you can get arrested, you can incur huge legal expenses and you can possibly lose your job and nobody wants to work with someone who drinks and drives. So what can you do to prevent drunk driving? Plan a safe ride home before you start drinking designated sober driver, call a taxi, whatever. If someone you know has been drinking, literally just ripped their keys away and arrange for them to get a silver ride home, I don't care if they get mad at you. It's better than dying. We all know the consequences of driving drunk, but one thing is for sure, you're wrong if you think it's no big deal. So drive sober or get pulled over and stay safe this holiday season.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:42] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Now back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:56] All right, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:29:57] Hi J, J, and J. I got hit in a general layoff a few months ago. Well, it was scary. I eventually came out ahead. I got a new job almost immediately with a huge pay increase in a rocket ship upside potential. I'm well-networked in my industry and the scuttlebutt both inside and outside my old company is that folks thought laying me off was a mistake. So while I'm still processing things, I know I'm going to come out fine and be better for the experience. Here's where I need your wisdom because I'm well-networked and I'd like to stay that way. I'll be heading to trade shows where my old colleagues will be all over the place. Many of them are good friends, but I'm sad thinking about seeing them again, especially when they're all part of a team that I'm not. How can I get over this fear and stay friendly? How do I speed up the healing process to get to the point where there are no hard feelings? Cheers, Laid Off And Moving Up.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:48] All right. This is a great mindset to have going into this. The idea that you want to make sure your relationships are intact shows me that you probably really are well-networked and well-liked. I wouldn't worry about this too much. I think your former colleagues probably love you. They miss you. It will be a fun little reunion at the trade show, and yeah, it'll have some nostalgia and you might miss them, but going into this knowing that you're on an upswing and into something better should help. Speeding up the healing process though is tricky, I'm not sure that you can do it. I'm also not sure that you need to do it. If you're friendly with most of them and you're just sad thinking about not being a part of the team, then there's no reason not to keep those connections strong. In fact, focusing on what you're doing now and the upswing that you're on will help you look forward instead of backward. And I feel like you looking backwards might be what's causing a little bit of these negative feelings and realizing that you're into something that's a better fit for you is key. Realizing your onward and upward and you're not, “Oh, I was rejected from this and they rejected me.” That's not the case at all.
[00:31:50] And if you're really worried about this before you go to the trade shows, make a big list of everything you love about the position that you're in right now and keep that on your phone and then review that before you hang out with your old colleagues. So when nostalgia creeps in and you feel like it's making you cranky, bust out the list in the bathroom or something and review it. That helps a lot. Trust me, voice of experience here, and I guarantee that your friends and colleagues are happy for you as they should be. Now you just have to be happy for yourself. Congrats on your bright future, by the way. I'm excited for you.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:23] It sounds like this guy is going to land on his feet just fine. And I think he's going to be -- he's in a great position. He's got more money. He's got a new job and he still wants to be friends with his old friends. So you know, I think follow Jordan's advice and you will be just fine.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:37] Well thank you. Next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:39]Hi team. So I'm 27 and I never dated, neither have I had a close group of friends. I'm starting to interact with more people and make friends, but I always feel that everyone already had their core group of friends so I don't feel like I belong there. About the dating part, I know it's not about my looks because I'm a pretty girl and guys hit on me in the clubs and stuff. But I always feel that the guys who seem to like me are not good enough. So I don't even go on dates because it's going to be a waste of time. I sometimes hear that I look too hard to get and they assume I'll reject them. Am I holding to impossible standards? And about the friendship thing, what should I do to become part of the core group of friends? I usually don't do anything because I think they'll think I'm too needy, and maybe because of that I kind of act like I don't care. I think those two things, my dating and friendship patterns might be related. You think? I really don't know how to draw the line between I like you and I care about you, and I'm being pushy but please accept me, so I stay away from both of them. What should I do to become more approachable? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks and I love everything you guys do. Sincerely, Impossibly Unapproachable.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:49] Well, what it sounds like is you're rejecting people before they reject you, and so I wonder what your childhood included here. Maybe some instability in the family. I'm wondering if your parents are divorced or you moved around a lot. Seems like a fear of loss, but also a fear of rejection. Rejecting other before they reject us. This kind of classic fear of rejection. When I hear you say you're afraid to be needy. What I'm actually hearing is that you're afraid of vulnerability and being vulnerable in the first place is actually how strong bonds and relationships are formed. If you want allow yourself to get vulnerable, then you can't form close bonds with other people.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:29] I want to come back to what you just said about maybe they moved around a lot because there's somebody who moved around a lot. This is one of the things that you know, I experienced is you definitely don't -- you don't want to get close to people because you know you're going to have that fear of it's not abandonment, but that you're going to be forcibly abandoned from them. You know you're going to be taken away and moved to another place and you have to make new friends and the cycle starts over and over and over again. And for me, I've moved over a hundred times and that's one of the things that's why I don't have a really big network and a core group of friends is because it's like every time I would go to a new school I would get to make friends and we would move almost, you know in three months. And if you do that enough times you just put up walls and you just don't let anybody in. And this sounds like a lot like she might be having that same issue where she moved a lot.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:17] Yeah. That's why I thought maybe she moved around a lot or maybe there was some other instability like her parents split up and then she was spending time between the houses and had two different schools because then her mom moved like who knows.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:35:30] Or parents were in the military. That's a common thing as well because they have to get -- they change bases all the time.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:34] Yeah. Good point. I didn't even think about that. That's also possible. So being vulnerable like I'd mentioned before, that's how strong bonds and relationships are formed. If you won't allow yourself to get vulnerable, then you can't really form close bonds. So it's not just these guys aren't good enough or these people, blah, blah, blah. You can't actually form close enough bonds because you aren't putting yourself on the line. Putting your ego on the line is mandatory. Being vulnerable with people is mandatory. That's how we see that the other person is real and wants to connect with us. So I would say put your ego on the line here. Reach out to existing friends even though they're not deep relationships. Just tell them what you're going through. Explained that you've done a bad job at being a friend or that you've done a bad job getting close to people in the past. Tell them what you're afraid of. You'll feel less lonely for having shared, even if you feel uncomfortably vulnerable, because I want to sort of experiment with a little bit of the line here. Like yes, some people might be like, “Oh, TMI.” But plenty of other people will be like, “Oh, that explains a lot. We wondered -- we thought maybe you just didn't like us,” or “We thought you were just always busy.” People will understand you more if they know what you're going through. Like I said, you'll feel less lonely for having shared even if this is really uncomfortable for you right now. And if you have some childhood trauma or some unresolved issues that have caused you to protect yourself like this, and I highly suspect that you do.
[00:36:54] Talking to a good therapist about this is a really great start as well, but don't procrastinate on this. If you overshare with a few people, it doesn't matter in the scheme of things because if all you have are surface level relationships in the first place, then you really don't have anything to lose, do you? And it's the same thing with the dating. “Oh, these guys aren't good enough.” I mean, you don't really know that. You don't know them, you're just using that as an excuse not to meet people because you're going through the same thing. You're afraid of being rejected, you're afraid of them not liking you, so rejecting them first is very convenient. That way you don't have to -- you don't have to worry about it. You just rationalize, “Well that guy was never going to be anything serious. So I'm glad that I didn't talk to them or go out with them or anything like that.” So I think you need to let your guard down a little bit. And I'm not saying you have to make yourself an open book or do things that are going to make you put yourself in situations where you're going to get hurt a bunch, especially with the dating. Start with the friends and you'll start meeting a lot more people and developing some close bonds and I think that'll be good for you.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:37:52] And now we're going to flip the script again. Here’s Jordan taking my job from me. I guess I'm unemployed again and talking to John Lee Dumas for our next question.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:02] Good day, Jordan and John. I'm a 25 year old adventure and youth mental health advocate who in June of this year decided to sell my business and all my things to go travel South America for four months. This meant leaving my hometown in Australia where I've spent the majority of my professional life building social equity and a name for myself in both business and in my philanthropic work, much in part utilizing the tools I've learned from you and other guests of the show over the past four years of listening. This decision took me far outside my comfort zone and led me on a wild journey of self-discovery where I was presented with some of the highest highs and lowest lows ever experienced in my young life. No doubt it was one of the greatest decisions of my young life is I was afraid that if I didn't take time off, I would have ended up 40 years old, depressed and signing them the dotted line for a new Harley motorcycle. Although travel provided many unforgettable experiences and taught me a lot about myself as a young man in this world, I've decided to set up in the United States to establish a base that I can use to create some sort of normality in my life. I recently made the decision to set up this space in Salt Lake city after meeting my partner in Peru who lives there. The prospect of starting over in a new city is both exciting and terrifying as I'll be going from a lifestyle largely built around going wherever the breeze takes me to laying down some roots.
[00:39:13] I'm known to be a confident and worldly young guy with a good head on my shoulders. However, the man I am today is a distant departure from the man I was in Australia and I want to make sure that I create a network of great people around me that match my new outlook on life. My ultimate desire is to become an international speaker and continue speaking in schools and stages, which was quite easy when I was in Australia surrounded by my own connections, which leads to my question. If you were to move to a city in a foreign country and start from scratch professionally, socially, and environmentally, what would be your strategy to both create lasting relationships, make a solid friend group as well as get yourself and your professional brand out there? Thank you for your years of commitment to the incredible work you've provided me in millions of others over the years. Yours sincerely, Making A Move.
[00:39:55] I brought in John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneur on Fire on this one. John, this isn't a small business question or an entrepreneurship question per se, but you moved to Puerto Rico, not a different country. I get it. But you know, you're surrounded by different culture, you're away from where you grew up, you're away from home. You had to create a new business and social friends circle everything from scratch, so I thought you'd be a good person to consult on this.
John Lee Dumas: [00:40:18] You know, honestly, I do think I'm a good person to consult with on this because I've done this so many times. In the military, every time you get transferred to a new base, it's like you're starting completely from scratch. And I was in the army for eight years and then I tried to do the same thing, reinventing myself in corporate finance in Boston. And then like you, I went to law school and it's like, “Oh my God, like I'm starting school again.” And then you know, I was launching a new business and moving to multiple different places. So I am constantly moving and reestablishing myself somewhere new, which is actually where I want to go with first on this question because this guy is around 25 years old it seems, and this is one thing that I, looking back on my life being somebody who's now almost 40 which is kind of hard for me to say, but I'm almost 40 years old and looking back on my life, I look back now when I was 16, you know when I was 20, when I was 25, when I was 30, when I was 35, all those different parts in my life. I thought the same thing. Okay, now I've got to put down some roots. Now I've got to be serious. Now I'm going to set this one path for my success and it's never been the case because we are evolving, we always are progressing, we're changing, and we just need to realize it.
[00:41:27] Listen, relax. You're not going to be 22 years old, graduating college, going to work for Eastman Kodak for the next 45 years, so you get a gold watch. Those years are over. We live in a different and amazing world. So just embrace that fact, set up shop for a couple of years in Salt Lake City. Have a good time doing it. But don't kid yourself that in two years you're going to have the exact same desires that you have right now. You might, but you very well might not. So just be fluid with this and say, “Hey, I want to make the most of this right now.” So to your main question on this point, if I were you in Salt Lake City, what would I do?
[00:42:02] Well, as you mentioned in your question, you want to speak to people, you want to speak from stages, you want to speak to schools, you maybe want to go to jails and speak to people there. I mean, I'm just assuming you want to get on stages and speak to people who need to hear a message or a mission or whatever voice it is that you want to share with them. So what do you do? Will you go to the Internet and you Google speakers in Salt Lake City, you Google conferences in Salt Lake City, you Google places to speak in Salt Lake City, you Google all of these different things. You make a list of the people, the places, the venues, and then you start going, you go and you attend these things and you see the people speak from stage and you see who they're speaking, you see who's running the different events and you start to introduce yourself to them after the talk has done. You introduce yourself to the person who put it on. You introduce yourself to a couple of the speakers afterwards who you were impressed with and you've just now made a little bit of an introduction. You started to build a relationship. Then after going to a handful of these things, you get back to wherever you're living in Salt Lake City and you start to make a less of like, “Okay, who are my dream 20?” I might've met 40 people now over the past couple of weeks, but who are the 20 people of those 40 that I really think I would A, like to connect with on a deeper level, and B, who I think could actually do for me what I want it to be done, which is get on some stages of my own?
[00:43:24] Then I would have that list of 20 and I would say to myself, how can I become a person of value to these 20 people in order? Because I would prioritize those 21 to 20, and then I would start with number one, and I would say, “Okay, here's this guy, Jordan. He lives in Salt Lake City. I saw her speak from stage, you rock the mic. He said he was speaking X, Y, and Z places over the next couple of weeks all in Salt Lake City. The dude is great on stage. He obviously is connected. He's doing exactly what I want to do. How can I add value to his world? I would pull up Instagram, I'd go to Jordan's Instagram accounts. I'd go to the little DM message. I would direct message him and I would say, Jordan, I was at the event that you spoke at. I shook your hand afterwards. I was really impressed with your message like I want to be doing on some level what you're doing right now. How can I add value to your world? Can I be your personal assistant for free for the next three times you speak? Let me just go with you. Do all the things that you don't want to do, like make sure the lights are good and the audio is good and running errands need to be run. I will do these things for you for free and that's what I want to do, and that's going to be a hard thing for Jordan and say no to you because why not? I mean, it's only going to make his life better. Now he has a personal assistants going to be helping him out doing a few things. And what happens now? Now Jordan is going to be like, so “Dude, tell me a little bit more about what you want to talk about?” And Jordan to be like, “Hey, meet A, B, and C, these people who have helped me get to where I am, it could help you too.”
[00:44:47] That's how you start the process is not, you know, can I take you out to lunch and pick your brain and dah, dah, dah, Jordan doesn’t have time for that. I don't have time for that. I don't want to go eat some food and have you picked my brain, but I do want you to be a person of value to me when I'm out there doing my thing I'm already doing anyways and you making it easier. So think about that. Think about ways that you can add value in. Believe me, of those 20 people, the first five people might say no, number six might say yes, seven through 11 might say no, but if you have enough people, if you've made enough connections, you're going to get a handful of people who want your help and then who are going to be invested in you as well because that's what happens as humans when we make that connection and we add that value, reciprocity is real. That's what I would do.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:31] I agree. I love the idea of adding value first. We talk about this a lot on the show, as it's not some big secret that we've trademarked. I mean this is how people do business at sort of the top levels, especially of online businesses because it seems like even the biggest online businesses or at least the influencer based ones are still sort of small enough that we all have to or tend to or want to know each other. I think one of the things we can get making a move started on as well is going to different sorts of curated event meetup. So I don't recommend anyone go to networking events that are just general networking events, but let's say that you have a pet Flynn or Entrepreneur on Fire local meetup group or even a Facebook group, start meeting with those people because you know that they're kind of at least having the same interests or there may be in a similar niche and that way you get introduced to the other online quote unquote entrepreneurs in your area or the new transplants.
[00:46:26] The other thing I would say is go set up shop even just for a few months at a We Work or a Coworking Space because you'll find a lot of people that don't want to be stuck in their one room apartment working all day working in Coworking Spaces. Those are now a great place to go and meet other people and they have tons of events for the founders that are working. There are the solarpreneurs that are working there, so those are always great places to get your foot in the door. If you are an entrepreneur or a small business owner and you move and you have to start your network over again.
John Lee Dumas: [00:46:55] Let me just say genius is that idea of going to the Coworking Space. I wish I had thought of it, but Jordan, kudos to you man. That's a keeper.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:02 Yeah, thanks. You know what though? I don't know about you, but when I started my business at all, there was no such thing as a Coworking Space at all.
John Lee Dumas: [00:47:10] No, no such thing.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:11] No. Even in San Francisco there were warehouse spaces where you could sort of work a little bit. Maybe if you knew some people and you knew the people who ran the warehouse and it was like a company that had a bunch of extra space in it or it was some sort of incubator in a law firm that had extra rooms in it, but those weren't Coworking Spaces where you could become a member. You had to kind of know people or be in their incubator program. Now you can show up and the people you're sitting next to are making an app one day and then you're sitting next to other people another day and they're working on some sort of fashion brand. You just don't know. A lot of people working, We Works that are from that area and a lot of people working We Work or other Coworking Spaces that are not from that area, but our traveling, which means you can actually just make a network that's outside of your city as well. You're not going to be stuck just with a local network. So best of luck, man, a lot here, but it's picking up and moving to a new place and putting down roots. It's not as hard as it sounds. It never happens as quick as we want, but it never takes as long as we're worried it's going to take either.
[00:48:13] Recommendation of the week. American Meme, Jason, have you seen this? I think it might be really new, so I don't know if you’ve seen it.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:17] It's really new. I just saw the poster for it the other day and I was like some people taking selfies or something.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:23] Yeah. So what this is I never watch TV but I sat down yesterday because I was just had it and I wanted to watch something on Netflix. Maybe a little Ozark, but I found American Meme. And what this is, is a documentary about the whole influencer scene.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:40] oh no!
Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:40] So it's like it's, you know that guy, the fat Jewish on Instagram?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:48:44] Yeah. Don't know him. I'm not an -- I'm not a big Instagram influencer watcher, but this sounds fascinating.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:51] He just post memes, you know, he posts like funny stuff and it's like Paris Hilton is in there and you remember the guy Kirill, who used to do the champagne facials at clubs and stuff. It was like really popular back in the day. It might not be something that you are into, but these people have millions of followers, like 10, 20 million followers some of these people. It's insane. But this is a candid look inside their world. So I was actually quite impressed with Paris Hilton too. She was like, “I'm over it. I can't believe I have to do this.” And some of these people who are vine stars back in the day, they show where they are now and what they're trying to do, and just how miserable and unhappy they are, their childhood. There's so many interesting things about this because these people are wealthy and they have a distinct amount of power. I mean, they can sell out shoes in minutes and things like that, and you find out that it's just -- they know that this train is coming to an end. They know it's going to end really badly for most of the people that are doing it. They realize they don't even know themselves. They've been doing all this stuff for other people. They realized their fans don't really care about that. It's crazy. They're really, really candid and it makes you go, “Oh, guess I'm glad that I don't do this more, or I guess I'm glad I don't spend more time on social media or it really -- for me, I felt relieved and highly fascinated by this whole scene. I thought American Meme was really good, so I recommend that, it's on Netflix.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:50:20] I definitely check that out. It's like ephemerality culture because all this stuff is just going to go away at some point. So they're just kind of riding the wave and making some money off of it. But yeah, when that wave crashes, where are they going to be? What have they actually built besides a bunch of photos that don't mean anything anymore?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:38] Right. And like stupid stunts that you have to do that are like corny humor. And one of the girls on there, one of the women on there, she was talking about how she goes to audition for real acting jobs now because she is a comedian, but she was this number one Vine star for a while and people were like, “Oh hey, remember that video where the your dog fart in your face? That was hilarious.” “Oh, you're reading for this part.” “Okay. Whatever.” You know, like they just don't -- she's forever the girl who like did the dog part video or whatever it was on Vine and she's just miserable. She's married to Tommy Lee now.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:51:16] Oh my God.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:18] I know, I know. And among other things, and there were some other folks on there where I just thought like, “Oh, this person's really smart and interesting.” And then they just talk about how their life is a blur of stupid stunts and bars and nobody cares about them. And one of the guys -- I mean, look, this is -- I could go on forever. One of the guys Kirill posted on his Instagram, I'll be dead in a week. And he's like, “I was seriously thinking about killing myself,” is what he said. And of course the top comments are things like, “Don't do it. I haven't partied with you yet.” And he's like, “These people just don't care about me at all. It makes it even worse.”
Jason DeFillippo: [00:51:50] Yeah. No, that's pretty awful, pretty awful.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:53] It is awful. It is awful. And you get this interesting behind the scenes look, it's both funny, interesting, and tragic at the same time. I really loved it. American Meme on Netflix and we will link to that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:52:04] I hope it's a cautionary tale for kids who are thinking that like that's what they want to do for a living. That's what I really hope, because there are a lot of people that are just like, I want to be a YouTube star. I want to be an Instagram star. It's like, this is what's going to happen to you if you follow that path. Go get a real job. Get a real career. Get something that you can build on in the future.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:52:21] Yeah, it's so true. The guy of the fat Jewish is Josh. One of the things that he says is “You ask any kid what they want to be at school? The answer is always famous and they're always talking about social media.” It's just like, I mean he knows he gets it. He's smart. It's funny. He really does understand it and he just, man, this, this is so interesting. I don't want to waste too much time on it. It was so interesting. If you have any connection to this scene at all, go watch American Meme.
[00:52:50 Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget, you can email us firstname.lastname@example.org to get your questions answered on the air. Happy to keep you anonymous, we always do. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shout out to Corey Anderson who wrote us a nice note this week about how he can listen for hours because of our voices. Of course, some of that is producer Jason's production skills. I actually sell my Peewee Herman before Jason puts the filters on post production, so you know, just be thankful. If you want to learn how we managed to book all the great guests and manage all these relationships that we have here on the show. Do check out our Six-Minute Networking Course. It is free. It's the skills I wish I had 10, 20 years ago. jordanharbinger.com/course, and don't procrastinate, you can't make up for lost time with relationships. It's not fluff. It's really concise. It's minutes per day. jordanharbinger.com/course. And I'm on Instagram and Twitter @JordanHarbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show. You can always send me a message in either of those places. Jason, where can they find you?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:53:51] You can hit me up at my personal website at jpd.me. Hit me up on Twitter @JPDEF, that's J-P-D-E-F, or also check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks over at gog.show.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:01] This show was co-produced with Jen Harbinger. Show notes for this episode by Robert Fogarty. Keep sending in those questions to email@example.com and share the show with those you love and even those you don't. Lots more in the pipeline. Very excited for 2019 coming up real quick here. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:54:24] Hey, if you like our show, you're going to love Penn Sunday School on PodcastOne or as they like to say, PodcastOne. Join famed magician Penn Jillette as he talks about anything and everything from news to religion to anything else that's on his mind and trust me, he's not about to go easy on anything that ticks him off. Check out Penn Sunday School every Monday and Wednesday on PodcastOne or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
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