161: How to Support a Friend Suffering from Addiction | Feedback Friday

Transcript for How to Support a Friend Suffering from Addiction | Feedback Friday (Episode 161)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger and I'm here with producer, Jason DeFilippo. Here on The Jordan Harbinger Show, we love having conversations with our guests and this week we had Cal Newport talking about Digital Minimalism. This is a really interesting episode. It's not just about detox, it's not just quit social media, it's what are the best tools for the job and the idea that focus is essentially the new IQ. That was a real big turning point and will serve as a slap in the face slash wakeup call for a lot of us. Focus really is the new Ikea. It's hard to make yourself smarter, but it's not that hard to get rid of distractions, especially in today's day and age. So that's what that was about and we did a deep dive on why self-help actually makes us feel bad, feel miserable in some cases.

[00:00:43] This is a topic that's near and dear to my heart. Self-help has been a 10 year, 12 plus year, maybe 15 year long journey for me, and I found that a lot of it is, especially nowadays garbage, not based in science, makes you feel worse. And so Gabriel Mizrahi and I, he's the head of editorial here. In other words, the guy who makes me sound smarter than I am online, especially in written form, we did a deep dive episode about why self-help can actually be bad for you, and that was on Thursday. So go back and listen to Cal Newport and Gabriel Mizrahi. I also write pretty often on the blog. The latest post is about how to make friends as adults, and that's an interesting topic because a lot of us are really bad at that, especially as adults, kids, no problem. Us as adults. It's one of the most common questions I get in my inbox.

[00:01:28] So make sure you've had a look and listen there to all of that. Of course, our primary mission here on the show is to pass along our guest experiences as well as our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show was to have conversations directly with you. That's what we're going to do today, here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. If you keep your question concise, you get a better chance of making it. It does increase your chances. And Jason, I just got back from New York. It was cold as hell, but I will say I love New York. It's a great place. There's an energy there. I did a dozen interviews. I went to my coach for some on camera training. One of the hardest things to do on mic or on camera is to actually be yourself. It is seriously one of the most difficult things I've ever tried to do, and the easiest way to do it is alcohol. But of course after the first drink, you end up being the worst version of yourself instead of the best.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:02:19] I wouldn't know anything about that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:20] Yeah, right, right, exactly. I need something that keeps me like half a drink in for six hours. It's not possible. It doesn't exist.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:02:27] I've never heard of anything that would work for that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:30] No.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:02:30] Unless you drink really, really slowly.

 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:32] Yeah. That's not really how drinking works though, is it?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:02:35] Nope.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:36] No. As always, some fun questions and some doozies. I'm excited to dive in. Jason, what's the first thing here in the mailbag?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:02:42] Hi Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I'm a soon to be college graduate gunning for a career in the advertising industry, which is very competitive and it recently came to my attention that my stoic slash resting bitch face might be hurting my chances in the job market. I've always had a hunch that people find me hard to read based on comments from close friends such as, “I thought you were intimidating, scary, or bitchy before I got to know you,” or “You come off much older than you really are.” I'm 23 by the way. But this really hit home after I recently met with a professor for some career coaching. He pointed out that I come off as stoic because I'm not very expressive with my face when I talk, which makes me seem too serious and not personable despite the fact that I otherwise maintain great eye contact and very articulate and seemed to impress people with my knowledge and insight. This is a problem because ad industry folks value people who are more gregarious and open. I've watched acquaintances who are far less hardworking, qualified, and passionate than me get the jobs I would kill for only because they were able to win interviewers over with their presence. Do you guys have any tips for how I could work on being more expressive? Could you recommend some coaching resources or classes that teach this. Sincerely, Not As Cold As I Look.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:49] So there's a cultural difference here. First of all, she's got a very Russian sounding name here in the email and perhaps you're not one to small talk about nothing like a lot of us Americans, but I recommend improv and I've recommended this before. It's deliberately awkward and goofy. You don't need all four levels of improv, but doing level one and or level two or just doing level one like twice, that will really help and doing it weekly to maintain your skills will also really help. Toastmasters for presenting and speaking and getting feedback about how you come across is a great way to do this. Short of some sort of really in depth course. I know a lot of these self-help classes pretend or poortend to offer this kind of feedback, but I'm saying stay away from those for reasons we explained I think last week or the week before on the show. I understand you might not be as expressive with your face, but I'm very hesitant to tell you to act some other way that is unnatural because coming across as too serious is likely better than coming across as fake and insincere and I do have some communication coaching referrals if you want to email me about this, jordan@jordanharbinger.com for something a little bit more in depth.

[00:05:00] But in the end people who are really personable will always have an advantage because of this personality trait in certain industries, especially something like advertising, you don't have to become like those people, but you will want to make sure that you're able to work with and around those people and get along with them, especially in the ad industry. And the good news is you can learn to do this, especially in short bursts, to get through group work, to get through interviews. Once you get more comfortable in your position at work, it's likely you'll naturally loosen up and you'll be in a better position to work on this problem slowly over time. I wish you good luck on this. It’s really a matter of becoming who you are around your friends a little bit more. It's really is just like I said before, learning how to become more of yourself in situations that are more formal or structured. It's actually really difficult, I feel for you. You know, I'm trying, I'm sitting here on this show after 12 years trying to be more of the person that I am when I'm hanging out with random people, it's actually very difficult. So I feel you. Don't do the drinking thing. Don't go to a job interview two shots of vodka deep. Not a good plan.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:06:07] Not a good idea.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:08] The cost outweighs the benefit when it comes to that, I believe.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:06:12] Once you get a job in the advertising industry though, you're fine.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:14] Yeah, I've seen that men. I’ve seen that men keep a bottle in the office.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:06:19] I worked in the advertising industry for 10 years and I got to tell you everybody's got a bottle in their desk.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:23] Oh my God, we're a bad influence now. Geez. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:06:27] Hey Jordan and Jason. I'm a career railway signal maintainer, that’s a tongue twister and I love my job and I'm truly passionate about it. However, it's been completely taking over my life and driving me to severe depression and anxiety. One of the requirements of the job is that I'm on call 24/7, 365 in addition to a normal 40 hour work week.

Speaker 2: 00:06:47 I'm not paid for the on-call time unless a call actually comes in, in which case I'm paid time and a half, which is respectable, but still below average pay. My territory covers roughly 160 miles from end to end. And when I get a trouble call, I'm required to immediately drop everything I'm doing, hop in the truck and respond to the scene within two and a half hours or less. Getting time off even a couple of hours except for one paid week a year is pretty much impossible. Even for important matters. We don't have rotating on-call schedules despite a coworker on a different territory living in the same town as me. The problem is not only the inability to do anything with my friends and family, I even had to miss immediate family members, weddings and miss spending the holidays with family since there was always a slight chance that I will get called, but also the growing stress due to being always on. I can't even use the bathroom without having to take my phone with me. I'm unable to shut off or decompress. I suppose my question is twofold. Do you have any suggestions on how to be able to have a social life in a career like this where I could be called at any moment without notice and have to immediately leave? Also, do you have any suggestions on how to cut down on the growing anxiety and stress? With no downtime there is no way to truly decompress and it just builds and builds. The company doesn't seem open to ideas about rotating on-call schedules. I love the nature of the work and the challenges it presents with troubleshooting and repairing complex infrastructure as well as being outdoors and on my own. It's simply the 24/7, 365 on-call that is killing me. Sincerely, Signals Are All Red.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:18] Jason, I don’t know. What do you think? You're in a terrible job right now.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:08:23] I don't consider this one terrible considering what I used to be and I mean I did that for 10 years in the web business. I ran all the servers for my companies, my employers, they gave me the pager, which means that I was the one that got to miss Thanksgiving dinners. I'm the one that got to miss Christmas mornings when everybody was opening presents and I had to go sit in a room with a laptop. I mean no matter what time it was, day or night, if the server went down, they call me. I have to jump on it, which is exactly what he's got to deal with and I'm going to tell you, it made me old way too soon and there are no ways really to mitigate that level of stress. I burnt out. I had health related issues that my company didn't cover. Insurance didn't cover it because it's unquantifiable. Living under that stress so much and I just, I swear it's going to shorten my life.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:06] So how did you eventually get out of that situation?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:09:09] I pivoted to different positions in the industry. I got rid of the pager. I wasn't the IT guy anymore. I did more development stuff and that way I could still be in the same career in tech, building websites and stuff, but I just wasn't going to be the guy that they gave the pager to fix the servers. I'm just like, “I'm not doing it anymore.” So that's really the only way I could do it is to move horizontally in the same industry because I loved what I did. I just didn't like being able to not having dinner with my family on Thanksgiving.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:39] Yeah, that sucks. Well you eventually got out entirely.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:09:43] Yeah, I changed careers. I mean in my early 40s, I had to change careers because they don't like programmers who were over 40 in this new kid's world that we live in. So I just wasn't invited to play anymore, unfortunately. We met.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:55] Yeah. Nice. Okay. What would you advise him to do then?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:09:58] Looking to other positions in the railway industry if that's what he really loves? Because it sounds like he loves the infrastructure of the railroads, which I can totally get. I'm a total nerd for that stuff, but be open to other careers you're interested in. It's never too late to change, but I can tell you from serious experience, it's not going to get any better unless they're willing to change their corporate policies to give you time off that you need. Everybody needs time off to recharge, working, you know, 24/7, 365 you cannot do that forever. It will kill you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:27] Yeah, I get it. Who doesn't love a good choo choo? Am I right?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:10:30] Yeah. Seriously.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:31] Yeah. I couldn't say it any better myself. This sounds miserable and they don't seem open to changing the policy and it doesn't seem like they have a good reason. It's like, well basically it sounds like, well this isn't our problem and changing the policy would require like some work and I'm good on that, so go suffer because it's not my job.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:10:51] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:52] That's kind of how it seems. And here's the thing though, I wonder how they feel about losing someone very qualified that actually likes doing good work for them because that's needs to be their choice.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:11:03] Yeah. Make yourself so good. They can't ignore you and when you say you're going to quit, maybe it'll start to push that boulder up the hill to get them to have a different schedule. Have people that overlap because it's not good for the company to lose somebody who is qualified because they're going to have to train somebody else. It's going to cost them more money. Training is not cheap.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:23] No.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:11:23] There is a switching cost to that. So if you make it really hard for them to switch when you come in and say, “Look, this is killing me. I'm out.” It might actually, you know, break the cycle at corporate and have them treat you guys better.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:36] Yeah, I would see what other people in your position think if you all banded together to lobby for this policy change that might have some effect. And what I would do now is find a new job offer, then go to your boss, make sure you find the new job offer first, get it in writing, then tell your boss you've got another offer you don't necessarily want to take it. But if they're not able to give you some sanity by changing the policy and you've got the support of your colleagues that will offer to cover some of your shifts and vice versa, they're in the same position, then you're out of there and they can find another slave and it sucks, but you need to find sanity, like Jason said, is not getting any better.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:12:13] Yeah. And it never will. You just can't live under that kind of stress forever. Especially if you want to have a life. He has to go to the bathroom with his phone.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:20] It's ridiculous.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:12:20] It's miserable. It is utterly miserable and no amount of money is worth it. I got paid a ton of money when I was doing my IT stuff and even that didn't keep me in it, because over time it wears you down, and the money's not worth it. Your sanity, your health, and your quality of life. So you're not put on this planet to fix railroad signals, let's put it that way.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:40] No, definitely not, and sorry, there's not a cleaner solution here, but the good news is that you bring your passion with you to the next job so you can go somewhere your value to not frankly abused. Even emergency room doctors get to unplug. They get their shifts covered. There's absolutely no reason that you have to be miserable all the time. That's just insane. It's not worth the trouble no matter how great the job might be otherwise. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:13:02] Dear triple J's. Recently, I've been trying new ways to strike up conversations without coming across as having a motive or being awkward. Yesterday, I hit a snag. I'm sitting next to a gentleman on a bus and I see that he's reading a Harvard Business Review Article on his phone. I love that magazine and felt like saying, “Hey, what article are you reading? Such a great magazine, right?” Just to start the conversation, except it feels like an invasion of privacy. If it was an actual paper magazine, it seems all right to point and say something, but for some reason it seems creepy to say you were looking at someone's screen. What is socially acceptable? Do you think starting a conversation off with pointing to someone's screen is smooth or would it come across as awkward and invasive? What's a better way to strike up a conversation? Yours truly, The Screen Stalker.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:13:48] So it's definitely invasive. The question is whether or not you care. I mean I'm often so tempted to also do this. It's frankly invasive. You can be delicate and say something like, “Oops, I don't mean to be nosy, but I couldn't help but see you're reading HBR and I love that magazine,” and “Yes, I realize I just turned into a phone stalker,” and I think most people will be fine with this because we've all noticed other people's screens and felt some element of shame about doing so. If you had to look over their shoulder in this awkward way. Yeah, that's too weird. But if you're next to someone it's fine. I think you're sitting next to someone on a plane or a bus. Honestly, we should be expecting this at some level in our day and age. But if someone is texting or emailing, do not do this. It's kind of like seeing someone changing and being like, “Oh oops, I didn't see that.” You've got to do that, because texting and emailing, that's by definition personal communication that they are typing. But if it's some publicly available video on YouTube or Harvard Business Review, I don't really see that big of an issue with it. It's fair. I don't know. Jason, what do you think?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:14:52] I think it's way too creepy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:54] It is though.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:14:55] I would personally bugged if somebody was doing that to me. I'm like, “Dude, eyes front. Don't be looking at my phone.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:00] I guess, look, with videos though, where's the line? Like articles. I can see email, texting, definitely not. But like if someone's got a video and there's audio, it's not my fault. If you're watching freaking like the Academy Awards on your phone and I'm going to look over unless you're using headphones.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:15:17] Yeah, you better be using the headphones because if you're like watching a video with the sound on in a public place, somebody should slap that phone out of your hand and teach you some manners. But I think everybody has wanted to do this. I've wanted to do it, but I've always held myself back. It might just be because my generation just thinks it's, “That's not cool.” I mean I don't know what, you know, younger generations really think about that. Maybe it's fair game. They may be like, you know, they're used to saying, “Hey that looks like a nice Instagram picture. Who's that? Can I follow them too or something like that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:46] Yeah, I don't know. Does that happen? That seems super weird.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:15:49] I don't know. I don't know kids these days. Remember I'm old.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:52] Right, that’s true.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:15:53] Just for me, I would be kind of irked if somebody was like looking over my, looking over at my screen and wanted to start talking to me. Well I'd be irked anyway if somebody just randomly wanted to start talking to me in a public place when I'm trying to get stuff done. But I think for me it just, it airs too far on the side of creepy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:10] Yeah, that makes sense. All right, well there you have it. Difference of opinion, but it is a little weird. We want our phones to be personal even though they just aren't. So it depends how well you can play it off, you know?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:16:22] Depends on how good your phone game is.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:24] That's right. That's right.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:16:26] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.

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Jason DeFilippo: [00:19:31] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals, and if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:55] All right, next step.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:19:56] Hi Jason, Jen, and Jordan. I lead a lifestyle that many people would describe as being a hermit. I wake up by 3 a.m in the morning and go to bed by 7 p.m. I've structured my schedule this way so that I can focus on my priorities, which are career development, exercise, reading and sleep around my eight to five day job. I also quit all my social media accounts two years ago because I find that being off the grid helps me get in tune with my inner voice. All right. We've got Cal Newport fan here, probably.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:21] There you go.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:20:22] Being in my 20s, it's often difficult to align my schedule with my friends or find something we both enjoy. When we hang out. I'm already asleep by the time my friends start hanging out. I don't plan on getting into a romantic relationship in the foreseeable future because I'm not ready to devote the energy and time that my future partner deserves. Naturally, I don't do a lot of quote unquote fun things that most 20 somethings do. My lifestyle allows me to feel a sense of deep fulfillment and happiness. Knowing I'm doing everything I can do to work on myself and setting myself up for success. At the same time, I can't help but think that I'm being a bad friend in my circle and being selfish. Am I missing out on life by not spending as much time and energy on my relationships and my friendships in my 20s? Am I being selfish? Or is it okay to continue living the way I am as long as I can be honest with myself that this lifestyle brings me the most happiness? Sincerely, The Happy Hermit.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:12] So this is okay in my opinion.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:21:14] Totally.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:15] I don't think you have to go drinking to maintain relationships and I think that's what he's alluding to anyway. Texting, phone calls, et cetera is fine for maintaining a network with people during the week. Yeah, 7 p.m is kind of insanely early to bed, but there are weekends, you don't have to stay up later on weekends, but you've got a full day then and a lot of people will totally hang out during the day. They'll do stuff and you can also do things like lunches and early morning workout partners during the day. There's a lot you can do. You're not completely relegated to hanging out at night. I think that sort of screens in or screens out the people in your life and in the end I think you're making great choices. I hung out with a lot of losers in my 20s, along with some great people. Same as my early 30s when I was with the old company. I hung out with tons of people. All they wanted to do was drink all the time. And looking back, it wasn't even fun. A lot of people were like, “Oh, but you had a blast, didn’t you?” And I was like, “No. I was just trying to do what other people around me were doing.” That was not what I wanted to be doing. In the end, a lot of that was a waste of time because I would've had more fun working on myself back then, 2020 hindsight. I didn't grow as much as I could have. I largely regret a lot of the wasted time. Not everything of course, but I had to drop those people eventually because they were just not going anywhere in life, which should surprise no one.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:22:41] Yeah. I mean how many times have you been out on those nights with other people and you don't even remember the night because you guys got to wasted and wasted all that time. I mean God, if I had it to do over again, I could get another 10 years back just in lost memories alone. And my roommate goes to bed at between 6 and 7 every day and is up at 4 to 5, and she has a full social life, out everyday meeting people for lunch. Lunch is the key and she stops her day at about 3 or 4 in the afternoon and then relaxes it, goes to bed. She doesn't go out at night. That's fine. You can have a full social life I think with that schedule. You just have to prioritize when you're willing to hang out with people. That's all I'm thinking.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:24] Definitely. And I've kept many great friends but I could've done things differently. And been in a much better place right now, and I realize this makes me sound like an old fart, but what I'm telling you is that you can do whatever you want and likely the people you're with now will grow and change as you get older. I have an almost entirely new circle developed in my late thirties and moved multiple times. I've settled elsewhere and yeah, you need healthy social connections, but no, you don't need to live a different lifestyle so that you can go drinking with random people instead of working out, instead of learning, instead of growing. Definitely do not do that. And of course like everyone else, I wish I had that time back. I think everyone alive wishes that. I think we all wish we were more hermit and less party during those years. I only did that stuff cause I felt like I had to because that's what everybody else was doing. But I realize now like, “Oh they didn't know something. I didn't, they just didn't think that growth and keep things moving forward was important. And there's a reason that now being separated from all of that stuff, we were able to regrow everything in the past year because all of those negative influences, as much as we want it to be removed from them, we were still in business with a lot of those people. Now we're not, there's no coincidence that we're ahead of where we were after 11 years, after 11 months right now. That's not a coincidence.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:24:42] Not at all. And I think what Hermit needs to really focus on is he's working on himself right now. He is making himself the best person that he can be and all those other people are not. They're just going out and doing their thing. When he gets to his 30s, when he gets to his 40s, when he gets to his 50s, he's going to have such a leg up that his caliber of friends are going to be so much higher because he's going to be such a better person than everybody else that are just going to be, you know, just your average Joe. This guy is going to be exceptional. So I think putting the work in early is the best way to go personally.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:12] Yeah, agree. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:25:14] Hi from Australia to Jordan and the team. I'm 27 years old and I run my own media business along with working in sales for a Brazilian jujitsu gym where I also coached the kids classes. In other words, I'm very busy, which is great and I've set myself many goals throughout the year to try and continue to grow. I have a friend who's had a serious drug issue for the past three years. This severely affected our friendship where I haven't seen or spoken to him in over a year and a half. The last couple of times we met up myself along with a few other close friends, tried to talk him out of it and help him as best we could. We learned a few weeks later that he was back to his old habits and didn't listen to a thing we said. We did also mention that if he doesn't stop, we won't be able to continue seeing him. Fast forward to now. His mom gave me a call saying that he's been admitted into rehab and would love visitors and seeing me and a few other close friends may help. It's been over a month since I spoke to his mom and I have yet to pay him a visit. I'm not sure if I'm being a selfish jerk here, but I feel as if I have way too much going on in my life at the moment and that friendship died when he decided to continue taking drugs after we told him if he didn't stop, we would be out of his life. I would love to hear your perspective on this one. Signed, Too Busy For An Old Mate.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:24] Okay. Too Busy For An Old Mate, I hear you on this. You tried to help heat and listen. You've got bigger and better things to do, especially if you're no longer friends, but it doesn't sound like he stole from you or harmed you in any way and I just want to make sure of that. Like it really sounds like they met up with him. They said, “Hey man, cut the drugs out.” And he was like, “Okay.” And then he didn't because he's addicted and then they were like, “Aw, you don't care about yourself. We hate you now.” I don't know, maybe I'm being unduly harsh here, but I think the issue is that addiction really is a sickness. Jason, I don't know what you think, but this guy didn't choose drugs over friendship any more than he chose drugs over health, happiness, and a productive lifestyle.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:27:04] Yeah. It is an addiction. That's why it's called an addiction. I don't call it a disease because I don't believe in that it’s an actual disease in the, you know.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:12] But it's a sickness in that like--

Jason DeFilippo: [00:27:15] It is a sickness. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:16]Like if you're addicted to something, I think anybody, even if you're just a nail biter, it's not like, “Oh, but I enjoy it so much.” Right? Like there's a point at which you go, “I realize this is screwing up my entire life and I just I can't stop.” It's compulsive.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:27:30] It's compulsive. There are genetics involved. There are social issues involved. We don't know what this guy has been through that makes him want to do drugs over being around his friends. It's not a choice for this guy and that's why he's, you know, in rehab now. But I think that he wasn't harmed like you said, and he's just kind of, they just kind of let him go I think. I think a little personally a little too easily for my taste.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:54] Yeah. By the email, it does sound like, “Well we gave him a chance, we sat them down and said, “Hey bro, knock it off.” And then he went back to his old ways. I mean, yeah, that's what addicts do. That's why they need medical help for this, from trained professionals.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:28:07] And they need support.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:08] Yeah, yeah.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:28:09] Support from their friends, it's a hard road. You have to be a good friend to stand by an addict. And you know, I don't know if you've been through this process, but I have. Certainly many times and my friends have come out on the other side. Some didn't make it, but you have to be there if you really are a friend. If it's just an acquaintance, it's a different story. But the fact that he's writing in his thinking about it this much, I think he had a pretty good relationship with this guy and he's feeling kind of guilty about it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:37] Yeah, it sounds like it. And I agree. Look, you can only give someone so many chances, but I think what we're looking at here isn't really another chance per se. Right now, he just needs to know this guy in rehab. He just needs to know that people outside his family actually care enough about whether he lives or dies to get through another day of rehab.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:28:56] Yup, absolutely.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:58] There's a good chance he's sitting there going, “I'm worthless. Nobody loves me except my mom. I'm going to just -- what's the point?” And I'm sure that he realizes he's destroyed himself and everything he ever cared about because of his addiction. I don't know any addict that's like in rehab that's like, “This was great, but I'm done.” Right? Like this was fun, but the party's over there like my life is F right now.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:29:21] Yeah. I mean he's in medical rehab, which means he knows he's made bad life choices, but he's willing to take the step to fix it. And your visit could be the thing that keeps him here or it makes them checkout and it's no skin off your nose to just pop in and say, hi, how you doing, bro? We’re thinking about you. And that alone could just be that trigger that makes him want to keep trying, makes him want to fix himself and get better. Because if nobody shows up, he's like, “Well, nobody cares why am I going to stick around? Then it could be over, which you don't want that on your conscience. Personally, I didn't want it on my conscience. I've made that trip many times and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but you want to have a clean conscience personally. That's what my only advice.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:30:06] Yeah. It's more about you and kind of, well actually it's equally about him and about you and that I think about it. I mean you might be too busy to be his friend again, but that's not really what's being asked of you. What's being asked is if you can raise his spirits enough to get him through one more day, and in the end it's up to you whether you all go visit or not and I get that you're busy, you have other things going on and that you're annoyed with him or angry with him or fed up with him. But that said, if you're not going because you're thinking at some level, while this was punishing him for not listening to us, I get it. It's just that he's already punished himself a lot and his addiction is perhaps even caused by all the abuse he's given himself or from other people. You don't know what his family life was like. All the abuse he's given himself or gotten from other people over the years. Addiction is really tough. Losing friends and family is really tough. I guess I just don't see much reason to pile on. You know, you can move on. You have moved on, but remember, this guy's been stuck for like three to four years now, and when you're on drugs, you don't grow as a person. That's why in fact, this is a very interesting point that Caleb Bacon, who's a friend of the show and works with us in a lot of stuff. He's very familiar with 12 step and addiction stuff. This is something that he mentioned when -- you know Jason, when you see drug addicts in the street and they're like 40 but they act like they're 12.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:31:30] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:30] He brought up the idea that people really kind of emotionally freeze when they start doing drugs.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:31:36] Yes, that's absolutely 100% true. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:39] So if you're out on the street doing drugs and whatever, because you had an abusive family at age 11, you're not really going to be much beyond age 11 even if you're 42 years old, you're just not because you freeze. So this guy who's been stuck for three to four years now, he's crawling out of a deep, deep hole, and showing someone a little sunlight at a time like this. It might just go beyond friendship and your past with this guy, it wouldn't really cost you a lot, but it could mean the world to him at this moment in his life and his recovery, so that's just my 2 cents. You know, you don't have to be his best friend again, but me personally, I'd probably go see what's going on.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:32:20] Absolutely.

[00:32:23] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:26] This episode is also sponsored by Better Help. We were chasing these guys down for a while because a lot of people ask us about therapy. We talk about therapy a lot on Feedback Friday especially, and if there's something that's interfering with your happiness or preventing you achieving your goals, then better help online counseling is a great move. They offer licensed professional counselors who are specialized in issues, so depression, stress, anxiety. Yes, yes, yes. Relationships, sleeping, drama, anger, family stuff, LGBT stuff, grief, self-esteem. I mean the list goes on. Connect with a professional counselor in a safe and private online environment. Everything you share is obviously confidential. It's really convenient. You can do this from your phone and you can request a new counselor at any time instead of running around town and trying to make sure you find one in parking. Jason, have you been checking out better help at all?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:33:14] I signed up last week and I got paired with a counselor in under like 90 minutes. So we're going back and forth right now figuring out when we're going to do our first video session. I got the flu so I had to put it off for a little bit, but he's great. He's absolutely great. I hit all of my key points that I wanted to be able to talk about. He's licensed, and has a very long history of helping people. I mean, he's been in the business for 20 years, so it's fantastic that I got paired up that fast and in our just little chats that we've done back and forth with our text messaging, he's been great. He's actually given me some tips that I can do before we even do our first chat because I'm stuck in bed, but it's great and I can't recommend this enough. I will be documenting this a little bit more as we go forward with their ads. But I am planning on diving in to Better Help every week because this is going to be fantastic for me because I can't leave the house because I am a homebound, homebody.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:08] Homebody. Can't leave the house because you don't want to. Got it.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:34:11] That's true. Betterhelp.com/jordan, you fill out a little questionnaire. They assess your needs, they match you up. Betterhelp.com/jordan.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:34:19] And the great thing about this, it's really affordable and our listeners can get 10 percent off their first month with discount code JORDAN. So when I get started today, go to betterhealth.com/jordan. Simply fill out a questionnaire. It'll help them assess what you need and you'll get matched with a counselor you'll love. Betterhelp.com/jordan. 10 percent off your first month. The questionnaire only takes about five minutes and you're off to the races.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:42] Better help.com/jordan.

[00:34:44] This episode is also sponsored by Intuit. Whether you're a small business owner, a mother, a podcast host like me, all of us are working towards what's hopefully a prosperous future, but prosperity doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. For some, it's planning for retirement. For others, it's buying a home, starting a college savings, and for others, it's finally getting the financial freedom to take that long away to trip to Hawaii. Now, as you sit and think about your personal vision of prosperity, you may also be thinking about all the time and the money and obstacles that stand in your way, and I understand that. Intuit is here to give you the confidence to pursue your goals with financial tools that help power prosperity. Jason.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:35:18] Join the millions of people who are managing their finances with QuickBooks, TurboTax, or Mint, and turn your vision into reality. Everyone deserves the chance to prosper and with Intuit, you could get started on your path to success now. Learn more at intuit.com Intuit powering prosperity. If you're listening to the show in Overcast, please that little star button next to the show. It really helps us out. And thanks for listening and supporting the show, your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Now back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:55] All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:35:57] Hey Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I recently had a traumatic incident of watching my dog get attacked. It occurred unprovoked. We entered a gated field and an unforeseen unleashed pit bull came darting towards us. The owner immediately yelling his name. I immediately tried to leave the park, but the dog out ran me and my two dogs. To say the least, the attack was about two minutes but felt like forever and the damage was severe to my dog. It happened so fast. I can barely recall the name of the dog or what the owner did to help. The owner asked if my dog was okay and agreed when I told him to hold his dog until I got my dog out of the gated field because I was afraid the owner couldn't control his pit bull and he might come running towards us again. As soon as we were out, I did a max five minute assessment of the injury severity and her injuries and her suffering were all I cared about in the moment. As soon as I turned around to talk to the owner about what happened, he was gone. I immediately got my dog to the vet and the damage was severe. The total bill was $1,000. I rallied my neighbors to notify me if they spotted this man and his dog solely via physical description and incident details via flyers posted at intersections, the park, nextdoor.com and by mouth. What can I do to prevent this in the future or handle it better? How can I remedy this situation to get the owner responsible for the vet bills, the reports, legal action. What can I do? How can I reintroduce my dog to friendly socializing after her traumatic incident because I'm afraid she will be fearful and/or aggressive. Thank you forever, Could I Have Done More?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:27] This is all you, man. I haven't had a dog since I was in high school, so. I love dogs, and I think this is an owner problem. I will throw this out there. That pit bull was trained by an A-hole.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:37:39] Oh yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:40] Or not trained by A-whole.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:37:41] Oh yeah. I'll cover that in a second for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:44] Because here's the thing. Pit bulls you know Jason, I didn't realize that pit bulls with -- I thought pitbulls without their ears cut. First of all, that's disgusting. I didn't realize that. I just thought they had weird ears. That's how naive I am. I've always thought, “Oh, these dogs are so cute.” What are they? And my friend goes, “It's a pit bull.” And I was like, but his ears are weird. And he goes, “Yeah, I didn't cut them off with scissors,” and I was like, “Ugh.” And they're so sweet. They're so nice. They get a bad rep because people train them for fighting and then they like throw them away.

Jason DeFilippo: [0:38:12] Yup.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:14] And it's not the dog, it's the whole owner. So this guy who's like, “My dog would never hurt anyone. I'm not going to keep him on a leash.” Needs to get punched in the face by the law.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:38:24] Worse than that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:25] In a very legal fashion. But this is an owner issue, man. Jason, and like I said, this is all you. What do you think?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:38:31] Yeah. I'm going to take these questions a little out of order, but I have definitely some experience in this area. My roommate and her dog, she was mauled by a German shepherd that used to be a police dog. It was a retired police dog. The owner had died and the dog came to the daughter and the daughter did not know how to handle the dog. I mean, it was terrible. My roommate and her dog were both severely mauled. I mean it was terrible, and not just physically mold, but psychologically mold. And this is going to be the case for, could I have done more as well? She's going to have problems with this for sure. And if you haven't already file a police report, that's the first thing that you have to do. If you haven't done it already, you need it on the record because the vet bills alone won't stand up in court. If you ever find this guy. You need to have more proof. And if there were any witnesses, anybody in the park that saw any of this, get them on record. It's in so much time has passed. It might be a little tough, but I can guarantee that this guy and his dog are never going to be seen at that park again. But flyers in public awareness, somebody might see them on the street walking his dog somewhere if he's local, that might help keep. Keep it up. Keep trying. But you need that police report.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:37] Oh man. You know, it sounds like overkill, but truthfully you're right. Like, this guy's just going to go, “Oh yeah, my Bessie. She really screwed up that other dog. Hope I never see them again.” He's not going to be like better keep my dog on a leash most likely, right?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:39:51] Definitely. And in the future, don't take your dogs to any place where other people have their dogs off leash. Because there are a lot of off-leash dog parks and it sounds like this is where she was going because it was a gated park and the guy had his dog off leash so the dog couldn't get out. There are a lot of gated dog parks and she's unfortunately the cautionary tale. I've heard it so many times from people in the same situation who've had their dogs attacked in just those types of parks. Just because you have a well behaved dog doesn't mean the other idiot does. You can't tell the temperament of a dog. You can't tell what the training's been. You can't tell what the training of the owner has been. And I'm pretty sure she's never going to go in that situation again. But those off leash dog parks are just so dangerous. I've heard so many horror stories about dogs getting attack and people getting attacked. Those things were very popular back in Chicago.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:46] No leash dog parks.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:40:47] Yeah, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:49] Really?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:40:49] You basically, you go to the county, you get a license and you can take your dog to the parks and let them run free. It's a big area that's gated in, but there's no quality control on the dogs. There's no professional handlers there. Everybody is basically tasked with their own dog. So if your dog's in A-hole or meets another A-hole dog, then there's going to be a fight, and that's a problem. It's a real problem. That's why I will never, ever take my dogs to that. And this advice, this comes from the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department in Los Angeles Animal Control. We were asking them about what she could do to be safer when she's walking her dogs and they said, “Buy a stun gun.” So we went out and we bought one of those. I don't know if you've seen them before, Jordan. They're about two feet long, but they're stun batons, kind of like a cattle prod.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:35] Yeah, oh, that's what, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have, but I literally thought people were actually carrying cattle prods and I thought that's creepy and vicious looking.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:41:46] Yeah, no, they look like flashlights. You can use them as a flashlight, but at the very end is a very nasty stun.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:54] I love that. I love that it's like, “Oh, it's a flashlight. Oh, it's malfunctioning.” One of the bulbs seems to be burned out in distributing 9 million volts of really scary loud pops and crackles.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:42:04] Exactly it. I mean, the noise alone will scare most animals away, but we got this for her, it was like less than 50 bucks on Amazon. And my roommate carried it with her for three years after her attack because it wasn't to protect her, it was to protect her dog because that's what she really cared about. But it was also to give her the peace of mind that she could walk again with the dog because serious trauma comes from one of those attacks.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:31] Yeah. I would freak out. I have nightmares about my cat getting attacked and my cats never left the house.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:42:38] Yeah, seriously.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:39] It's scary because it's like your kid, you can't do anything about it either. Like you're just sitting there. Although when I read this question, I was like, “I would have walked up and kicked that dog so hard,” and I love animals. Like I would sooner snuggle an animal to death, but if they're viciously attacking my dog, you're getting rib kicked.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:42:57] Oh, I do a hell of a lot more than that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:59] Yeah. But it's still, I feel bad because it's not the dog's fault. It's the owner.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:43:04] Yeah. You don't want to do that. This was a police dog. You know, this was a trained ex-police dog and I think this is what saved your life because the dog attacked her, like tore her leg open, but held her in place because that's what it was trained to do. It was trained to catch a suspect and hold them in place until the officer arrives. And I think that's only the only thing that's basically saved their life. And my roommate's dog was a Doberman. It's not like it was a little puppy. This was a big dog and it still got attacked. So it's one of those things where it's still psychologically messes with you. So we got the stun gun and don't get pepper spray, and this is what the animal control people told us is, well A, what if it's windy and you can't get to it? Also, it is going to mess up your dog as much as the other dog because dogs live by their nose. So if you're spraying pepper spray into both of them because they're going to be together, you're going to hurt your dog just as much and it's not worth it. So that's why they prefer carrying a stun gun and preferably a stunt stick because you can be far enough away and get the animal away from you.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:10] What a mess is this, man. I feel bad for her because I feel like she would be like vibrating with scary feelings. Like you get PTSD, you get nightmares from this.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:44:19] Oh yeah, no, she didn't leave the house with her dog for like six months. She had to just take it in the backyard because she couldn't walk. I mean, it is not a good thing. It's definitely something that you need to have therapy for. You absolutely have to go get there before just talk to somebody. You know, we have some resources in the show today. Check out Better Help if you need somebody and you don't want to go to another like actual person. You can talk to Better Help and you can do video chat with them, but you have to talk to somebody because it will fester and it will only grow. You absolutely have to do that. Most people are like, “Oh, my dog got attacked.” Oh no, it's traumatic. Is it like having your kid attack then you can't do anything. It's a feeling of helplessness.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:44:59] Yeah, of course.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:45:01] Yeah. And when it comes to avoiding attacks from other dogs, have situational awareness of other animals. I mean I walk a 115 pound Rottweiler around my neighborhood every day along with the little tiny 45 pound, very tall beagle, and they're great with other animals. But I don't know about the other animals that are on the street. So I crossed the street, I don't let anybody come in close proximity to my animals and you just have to be cognizant about that stuff. I know in this case she was in a closed in park and the dog came running at them. So it's a little bit different. But if you want to have that safety, you need to have situational awareness with other animals because they are animals, they're animals, they kill things. That's what they do in the wild. Even though we have them here and they're soft and cuddly and you know, very nice puppies. But they can kill people and they can kill other animals and you want to avoid that situation as much as possible. No matter what the size of the dog. Just always, you know, in the back of your head, say to yourself, “I'm not going to let my dog play with the dog. I don't know.”

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:05] Yeah. And it's so weird and it's unfortunate because dogs, especially pit bulls are such great sweet dogs.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:46:11] Oh, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:11] Unless the owners are negligent A-holes who don't train them properly. They think they're dogs a little angel who never hurt anyone. Sounds remarkably familiar to a lot of parents. Can I use a cattle prod on other kids? Is that cool?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:46:24] Seriously?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:46:25] Is that legit? I feel like there's some kids in my neighborhood that need a cattle prod screaming and throwing things and I'm like, “Oh you're not going to control your kid. Hold on a second.” Oh look, he's right. He is a little angel. Look at him. Look at him sit there quietly reading. Maybe not. I'm going to be a terrible parent.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:46:43] And just real quick, when it comes to reintroducing your dog into social situations, you need help. Go find local doggy daycares, audition them, and find ones that have the best trainers and handlers, and start getting your dog reintroduced around other dogs. They will reintegrate your dogs slowly if you tell them what has happened and we'll work with you to get your dog around other dogs. So it does not become fearful or angsty or bitey. So you need to do that as soon as possible because you don't want the dog to just be fearful of everybody forever.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:11] Yeah, no, that makes sense. Oh, what a mess. Sorry, you're dealing with this. All right, next up.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:47:17] Hey, triple J. I'm asking this for one of my friends.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:19] Sure, you are!

Jason DeFilippo: [00:47:21] How many times have we heard that line?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:22] Yeah. Okay. Ask for your friend.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:47:25] She's about to graduate college and she has two jobs lined up. One of them is working with her boyfriend's brother who's starting a company. She's majoring in accounting and the brother wants her to handle most of the accounting stuff for this company.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:47:36] This is much different than people who write in asking for friends, by the way. So now I actually believe you. This is just not juicy enough to actually be for a friend. Okay, continue.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:47:47] He has a business up and running already and he said he was willing to show her how to do the accounting for the books. The other company is a small business that he wants her to also handle. She's worried that she doesn't have any experience to do those jobs. I told her that it might be hard for her down the line if she works with her boyfriend's brother because working with family is always tricky. What if her boyfriend's brother asks her to take a pay cut because the business isn't doing well this month? It might cause a strain in her relationship if she works with her boyfriend's family. As always, you guys are the best. Signed, Asking For A friend.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:16] Okay, well this is riddled with problems already.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:48:18] You think? Well, I mean the elephant in the room is what if they break up?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:21] That's a good point. What if they break up? Oops. That's a huge mess. I would say, and I asked Jen for advice on this because this is kind of her department. The best ways to learn on the job and employers want to hire someone with an attitude of eagerness to learn, not someone that already knows everything, so there's that. And I think there's a lot of other factors to consider. For example, is the brother going to be too busy to train? Is there going to be someone that's available to sit with her for a few days to train? And if she's got questions, will she have somebody to turn to? Because a lot of times guys will start a new company and they're like really busy. They leave her unsure of what to do, where to start and they're like, “Just figure it out. You're smart. Figure it out.” And you're on YouTube being like, “How do I do accounting?” And the other company might not have that problem. If it were me, Jen says, “I'd only take the job if the brother can hire an experienced temporary contractor to get the accounting all set up.” And that contractor should also be available to train her for a few weeks so that she can take over confidently and also have someone to ask questions. Because the first job is great to use as a stepping stone for learning, and after a year she should plan to apply to a larger company where she can learn more and build her resume.

[00:49:36] But before leaving, she's got to help find and train her replacement so she can maintain a good relationship with the brother. And so it's kind of a stepping stone, but she's also not ready for this. So he should hire someone to train her and then she should work there, get experience and then train someone else and pay it forward and set up all the systems and get everything going. So it's kind of not ideal. Yeah, what if they break up? There's that, but also she just doesn't know what to do. She's going to get left holding the bag if anything gets screwed up too, which sucks.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:50:07] Yeah, because I mean it's working with accounting. That's the company's finances which is a little scary.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:11] You can't mess that up. You can't, there's not a way -- like that's doomsday if you screw up the numbers.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:50:17] I like Jen's advice though for hiring like a real professional to come and just get the ball rolling, get the wheels going so she can ask questions and then it just kind of takes over from there and she just knows what to enter into the ledgers and things like that. I think that's a great way to start.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:50:30] Yeah, I love that. I love that idea. All right, last but not least.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:50:35] Hi Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I do my best to apply the advice and strategies you give on your show. My question is regarding Bitcoin. Last year, you were really advocating for Bitcoin and getting involved in cryptocurrencies in some way, notably in business related to cryptocurrencies such as crypto law. I've noticed you've stopped mentioning anything crypto related and I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on crypto now, and whether it's still something to consider or something to stay away from. Love the show and keep being awesome. Sincerely, Crypto Curious.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:04] Jason, you're a tech guy. What do you think?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:51:07] Well, I think you and I differ a lot on the crypto space, but I will say that my friend Kevin Warbuck, he's a professor over at Wharton. He's written a new book. It's called The Blockchain and the New Architecture of Trust. And it goes into a lot of the law stuff with crypto. So it's definitely something to pick up and dive into is getting really good reviews from the tech folks. But for me, blockchain is different from cryptocurrency and I think getting involved in blockchain right now is a very smart thing because a lot of people are going to be using blockchain for things like supply chain management, which is a great use of it. People are really chilly on crypto right now because of the lack of regulation that drop in value and the looky loos. So I think the difference right now is really to look at blockchain technology separated from cryptocurrency and get really into blockchain technology.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:58] Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think regulation's going to stamp on. Well, maybe not stamp it out, but it's going to cause a major ding and you're already seeing a major dent in the crypto markets. Right now I think a ton of companies are actually going to want people who are experts in this in the next few years. The key is to also be an expert in something else like IP, trademark, patent, whatever. Right now blockchain probably doesn't have enough work to keep you busy on its own, but once it gets hot again, if you're working on it now, you might actually be one of the few experts in this area and honestly right now is probably the best time to become an expert in emerging tech like this because all the trend followers, all the Fairweather fans, nobody's looking at this. There's going to be far less competition for training and jobs and work right now in blockchain.

[00:52:48] Once you've got a few years of experience doing this on and off, once there's a flood of work, you might actually be one of the only people who's ever done this type of work before for longer than five minutes. So just like now is the best time to buy cryptocurrency. Now is the best time to get schooled in cryptocurrency because all the people who are like, “Oh my God, this is amazing. Let's build a company.” Most of them quit once it got less exciting, and the people who are still going, they're going to be primed for when it's really hot and revved up again, which that will happen. And guys like me who invested before and in our sitting on stuff and didn't sell it a loss, they're going to be like chaching.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:53:29] I think he should definitely look at blockchain as a service companies right now because IBM is putting a lot of money and time into blockchain as a service and there are a couple of other companies out there that are doing the same thing. That'll let you get up to speed on blockchain technology without having to become a blockchain programmer because unless you have a PhD in advanced cryptography and mathematics or you're willing to go back to school for five years to figure that stuff out, you're going to be wanting to use one of these companies that is doing it as a service, and it will give you a chance to actually try it out and use it without spending too much time in a book .

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:04] Life pro tip of the week. I will say if you use AT&T, and I think it might work even if you don't, but for sure if you use AT&T, download the AT&T Call Protect App. This crowdsources spam caller information. It's on Android and iOS. I'm not sure if other phone carriers have this feature or not. I think they probably do. I've signed up for this National Do Not Call Registry, Jason. That is a joke, okay?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:54:31] It doesn't work anymore. It's a total joke.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:54:34] No, no. This spam callers have realized that in order to get punished by the government, you need to get nailed and then you need to fight it, and then five years later maybe you get like a fine, but they don't give a shit about this.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:54:50] The way it works now is there are there teams in India and they use these APIs from phone service providers here in the States and they just robocall everybody because it's, you know, no skin off their nose because they're in India. There's one ring that got caught in like maybe 15 people went to jail, but that's it. Out of all the calls you get a whopping 15 people who've gotten caught over this. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It is a scourge right now.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:15] Yeah. So this AT&T app is great because when a spam caller calls you, it's either blocked, depending on your preferences or it says spam call and you're just like, yeah, no. And if somebody calls you, you know those calls you get from your own area code from the first it's you know, from your exchange, which is the first three numbers of your number and they're just clearly war dialing basically like all the numbers.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:55:35] Yep, yep. I get those all the time.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:38] You get those in and then I'm like, “Oh, report and block,” and the apps like reported and blocked. Then it's like, “Oh 127 other reports,” and then you check a month later and it's like 5,000 reports, and so after a while it's just like spam call. And so this is the only way we're really going to defeat these guys, is by reporting spam calls and then having carriers be like, “Yeah, we're not supporting you because you have 7,000 reports of spam.”

Jason DeFilippo: [00:56:03] Yep. And the problem though, it's whack-a-mole because there's numbers gets recycled and sent to other providers and they do.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:09] They do, but eventually they'll just be like, “Oh, all of these numbers are spam,” and they're causing a problem in our -- if carriers actually it, the way it'll get solved is somebody will come up with not just AT&T Call Protect, but iOS, Apple and Android will be like spam call reporting will be native and it will be crowdsourced between all of Android and all of iOS in every country and it will be like, “Hey, we're no longer at the iOS, at the operating system level, we are not allowing calls from these numbers. “

 

Jason DeFilippo: [00:56:43] Sign me up right now.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:45] And it'll suck because some people who use like pay as you go phones and stuff or buy a number of, they'll have to apply, but what if you have to apply and you have to put down a 10,000 or $100,000 bond? This says I'm not a spammer, and you get it back after a year because it's your corporate number. Not a personal number obviously, but a corporate number. The incentives will reverse on allowing people to use numbers from your provider as a crappy spam call, because it will cost you money to reuse that number. So these carriers will have to police who's buying from them. It sucks, but why should the onus be on me?

Jason DeFilippo: [00:57:23] Yeah, totally.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:24] If the owner should be on the person selling phone numbers.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:57:27] Agreed.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:27] Yeah. I mean it's illegal. It'd be different if it was like, “Oh yeah, you know, I sold this and dah, dah, dah, drug dealer bought this pay as you go phone. That's one thing. When this is a big company using this number, you've got, you're doing this and you just don't care. That's all that is.

[00:57:42] Recommendation of the week Inside The Mossad. This is on Netflix. Jen loves this. I like it. I think dozens of former agents from the Mossad talk about, which is Israel's Foreign Intelligence Agency, they reveal these top secret operations from like the ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s, so interesting. These guys have done some crazy stuff. Our interview with Ehud Barak, which is exclusively available on YouTube because we had to subtitle it, because of Israeli accent issues. He talked about some special operations, but this show is all special operations and some of the stuff they did was just nuts.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:58:18] Yeah, those guys are no joke. No joke. I've had this in my queue for a bit. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I'm glad you liked it because now I can bump it up the queue.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:25] Yeah. I downloaded it and watched it on a plane on my iPads. So interesting. I mean, these guys are just so ruthless. It's crazy!

Jason DeFilippo: [00:58:32] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:34] Yeah. So capable and so ruthless. It's really, really fascinating. I hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Don't forget, you can email us friday@jordanharbinger.com, we'll answer your question on the air. We'll always keep you anonymous. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shout out to Mitch Smith he wrote in. Congrats on hitting the one year mark. That's right. We're a year old now. He heard from you on Grumpy Old Geeks. There were 38 million downloads in 2018. That's true. It's amazing mark for the team. I agree. I can't believe we had 38 million downloads the first year. I mean, good start.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:59:10] Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take it any day of the week.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:59:13] All right, go back and check out the guests Cal Newport and Gabriel Mizrahi on the deep dive if you haven't yet. And if you want to know how we managed to book all these great people, manage relationships using systems and tiny habits, check out our Six Minute Networking course. This course replaces LevelOne from before it is upgraded. Six Minute Networking is. It's a free course. It's over at jordanharbinger.com/course, and the drills are designed to take a few minutes per day. I'll let you guess how many and it's got a lot of really good stuff in it. A lot of people have changed their lives and their businesses from that jordanharbinger.com/course. I’m on Instagram and Twitter @JordanHarbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show. And jordanharbinger.com/youtube is where the video interviews are on YouTube. Jason.

Jason DeFilippo: [00:59:59] My personal website is over at jpd.me. You can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks at gog.show or your favorite podcast player of choice.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:07] The show was co-produced with Jen Harbinger. Show notes for this episode are by Robert Fogarty. Keep sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Share the show with those you love and even those you don't. Lots more in the pipeline. Very excited for what's coming up. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[01:00:28] Congratulations to Adam Carolla for coming up on his 10th Year of Podcasting, and now you can catch up on the finest moments. Check out the Adam Carolla show with his new series Corolla Classics. I look back on some of the funniest moments on the show like you've never heard them before. Download Carolla Classics on The Adam Carolla Show every week on PodcastOne or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.