When your significant other agreed to stop watching porn early in your relationship, you were relieved. But now that you’ve been dating for a few years and everything’s otherwise great, you can’t shake the feeling that they haven’t quite given up porn and it feels like a betrayal. Is porn cheating? On this Feedback Friday, we do our best to get some perspective on this and much more!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Jason DeFillippo (@jpdef) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at email@example.com. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- Due to your own complicated history, your significant other’s possible consumption of porn feels like betrayal. Is there a way to understand it from a different perspective?
- You spent six years training for your dream job only to be disqualified on a technicality. How can you motivate yourself to endure a similar time sink for another career when you know you’re not getting any younger?
- As a business owner, how do you deal with the deadbeats who take advantage of your good nature and don’t respect what you do enough to give you fair value for your services?
- How do people transition from the period of time they need to get experience in their field to the time they get paid for making use of that experience?
- Your significant other wants you to list the names of the people you’ve dated and slept with in the past, and then delete them all from your social media. Is this at all reasonable?
- You assumed you were having an email conversation regarding a business proposition with a man you know named Sam, but it turns out it’s been with a woman named Sam whom you don’t remember meeting. Now what?
- You’re normally a great conversationalist, but when it comes to interacting with a superior, you find yourself worrying too much about accidentally saying the wrong thing and the conversation ends up stagnating. How might you overcome this?
- Life Pro Tip: Looking to cut the cord but dreading the inevitable call to the cable company where they badger you into not leaving? Tell them you’re moving out of state where they don’t offer services. Your cancellation call will take a fraction of the time.
- Recommendations of the Week: Happy Jail and Twelve Monkeys
- She Podcasts LIVE women’s podcasting conference — a literal who’s who of talented and wildly successful women podcasters giving their all to make sure you have everything you need to make your podcast soar to the next level. Get your tickets now!
- A quick shoutout to Justin Phillips!
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Jason on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks.
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
Resources from This Episode:
- Frank Abagnale | Scam Me If You Can, TJHS 243
- Rob Reid | Synthetic Biology for Medicine and Murder, TJHS 244
- How to Help People Change for the Right Reasons by Jordan Harbinger
- The Lasting Effects of Sexual Betrayal, Psychology Today
- Try to Beat Star Trek’s No-Win Kobayashi Maru Test, Flowchart-Style, CNET
- Linda Carroll | What to Do When Good Chemistry Goes Bad, TJHS 42
- Sheryl Sandberg Says the ‘3 Ps’ Have Helped Her Become a Stronger Person after Her Husband’s Tragic Death, Business Insider
- Tom Bilyeu | The Secret to Making Powerful Friends, TJHS 133
- Robert Greene | What You Need to Know about the Laws of Human Nature, TJHS 117
- Chad Blain: The Sound of a Creative Life (An Explanation of a 100 Project Plan), Calgary Arts Development
- Better Help
- Six-Minute Networking
- Happy Jail
- Twelve Monkeys
- She Podcasts LIVE
Transcript for Is Your Boyfriend Cheating on You with Porn? | Feedback Friday (Episode 245)
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:03] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger and I'm here with producer Jason DeFillippo. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most brilliant and interesting people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
[00:00:20] This week's interviews we had Frank Abagnale, he's one of the world's most daring con man, a forger, and an impostor, having impersonated a pilot, an FBI agent, a lawyer, a doctor—all before he was old enough to legally have a drink. He was one of our top-most interesting shows ever. Jason, I know, we were drooling over that one.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:00:38] Oh, it took so long to get him and he did not disappoint. Definitely, one of my favorite episodes we've ever done.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:43] And also, we had our friend Rob Reid. This is another smart cat. How we all might die from genetic editing in a massive plague of our own making? It's not science fiction, it's science fact in the next few decades, and Rob Reid outlines what might be done about this and of course the path to that crazy disaster. If you're into a little bit of dystopian, if you like zombie flicks or whatever, you might be into this kind of thing. And if you just like science, you'll be into this Rob Reid episode as well. So, check out Frank Abagnale and Rob Reid. This is a powerful week in my opinion. I've really enjoyed this week’s shows. Of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guests' insights and experiences and our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations directly with you. And that's what we do on Fridays and what we're going to do today here on Feedback Friday, you can reach us at email@example.com.
[00:01:38] You know, I don't like it when podcast hosts spent 20 minutes talking about their personal life. But I will mention, as you all know, we have a one-month-old son, Jayden. And, he managed to shoot a canon of poop for five feet almost –we did measure almost— five feet across the room. Granted he had an elevated position laying down on the, like a changing table.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:03] Always take the high ground.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:04] Yeah, he took the high ground. And Jen caught most of it on her arm. But I got to say all of these things that people think are gross and in revolting about kids are part of the joy I'm experiencing. And those of you with kids are like no kidding. But I think a lot of guys are scared to have kids because they're like, well guys and women for that matter are probably afraid to have kids because they're like, “Oh, I don't want to change diapers and it seems so gross.” I've heard these objections and I will tell you I thought about those and then thought I'm mature, I can handle it. I find all of it to be kind of fun. Yeah, when he's crying at 4:00 AM, that's not fun. But changing a diaper while he pees on you is hilarious. I don't know why. It's just you do it all with a smile on your face.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:47] For now.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:48] For now, yeah, it's been a month like a reality check. Everyone is like, “Call me in three years, bro.”
Jason DeFillippo: [00:02:53] Yeah, you're in the honey poo stage.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:56] I’m in a poo stage. That is true. I will say relationship-wise though, this is one of those times and dads out there, you know this, I have to be really careful about being, because I work with Jen, I have to be careful about being too-business Jordan versus being-husband Jordan because Jen is not in the mood for me to be like, “Did you get that thing out? You dig it out TPS report.” She’s like, “I am co literally holding a handful of like feces from your son. I don't want to hear about it.” I know what I'm like when I'm tired and she's with Jayden 24/7. Having kids has given me a new respect for Jen, I thought I couldn't love her any more than I already did and she's really stepped up to be a mom and so I just want to give her a nice shout. She got back to work within days of having Jayden. We do work from home but she's still on top of it with a one-month-old kid. Massive shout out to Jen and for those of you out there who are postponing the kids' thing because of diapers, I would say just forget about it. That's not even a thing. A lot of these little concerns turn out to not be anything compared to that. So those of you asking me, that's my update there. But let's get to the first thing out of the mailbag because that's why most people are really here. What do we get, Jay?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:04:07] Hi, Quad Jay. Congratulations on your new baby. This is not a typical Feedback Friday inquiry and definitely not safe for work. Lately, I've been struggling with the issue of porn. I was raised super religious and very sheltered. I was also molested by a family member, raped by an older church member, and had been raped two other times. At one point in my life, I was struggling to provide for my children as a single mom and escorted for about nine months. Things are a lot healthier and stable now and I've been in a relationship for a few years with the man I love dearly. When we began, I let him know that I'm uncomfortable with porn usage because of the degradation of women, unrealistic body images, the dark and seedy realms such as incest, et cetera. While he didn't share my feelings, he agreed to stop. I don't believe it's just that easy to stop and I'm sure he still watches it. This has caused me a lot of insecurity and I realized that my complex past with sexuality has caused my self-worth to be rooted in my sexual desirability and what I offer. I've really been digging deep and it seems like porn is natural to everyone else. What does porn mean to men? To me, it seems like a betrayal because I'm very monogamous. Getting off on fantasizing about sex with another person just seems like it will lead to infidelity, which I'm also sensitive to. I'm highly sexual and my partner has a lower drive. So, I feel that if my partner is watching porn, it's taking away from my sexual needs and desires. Can you provide some clarity so I can understand a different perspective? I recognize that I attach emotion to porn and maybe I need to see it through a different lens. Thank you so much. Signed, Porn is Not for Me.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:43] Yikes. Yeah. This one is a loaded potato. First of all, I am so sorry to hear about your past abuse. It's terrible. And while I don't know you, I want to reiterate that you have nothing to be ashamed about. I know people who suffer from abuse often have a lot of shame and nothing I say is going to change that. But I want to reiterate to anybody who's thinking about this stuff, maybe suffering quietly, none of this was your fault. The people that do this to you, to children, to any children anywhere deserve to go to prison. Period. End of story. And I also want to commend you on your self-awareness here. You seem to understand that your boyfriend's, I'll say alleged use of pornography because we don't really know, and maybe he'll get upset about that, but this has more to do with your own insecurities than it does with his character, assuming that he's using and consuming pornography. This is a very enlightened perspective that you have and I think you should be proud of the work it probably took you to get to this point of understanding that this might have more to do with you than it does with him. One thing that caught my eye here is that you've told him that porn bothers you and he's agreed to stop. Those are your words. This just seems so unlikely to me, Jason. I don't want to throw you under the bus, but I don't know too many men that have stopped porn cold turkey for any reason. I know no guys that have done so because their spouse or girlfriend made them do it. I don't know anybody that's like, “Yeah, my wife told me that to watch porn.” So, I mean I'm sure I'm going to get emails about this, but let's be real, those are the exceptions that prove the rule. Right? This is an advice.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:07:13] in the real world, I see this as a doubling down probably on his porn addiction because if he has an addiction or just uses porn, just socially. Because now he's going to think, “Oh this is like a taboo thing. I'm not supposed to be able to do this because I told her I wouldn't.” So, he's going to sneak it twice as much. I think that could be a backfiring approach to tell him, “No, don't do that.”
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:35] That's insightful. I hadn't thought about this, but I will say just for my own personal TMI experience here that I had a girlfriend in college who was like, “I don't like it. I think it's cheating.” And I was like, in that case, “I'm going to watch twice as much every single day and never tell you about it.” Because before, the reason it came up was because I was like, “Hey, have you ever seen this?” Because bear in mind, I went to college in like ‘99 to 2003 right? So, I was like, “We have really fast internet. You know, what that means.“ And she was like, “Oh my God, this exists.” Because we didn't have that before. You go to somebody’s sites, whose names I still remember, but like you go there and you're showing some girls and they’re like, “Wow, let's watch this.” And you're like, “This is awesome. Let's party.” But other women that you date, they'd be like, “This is cheating. You can't do that anymore.” It made it worse because now it's forbidden. And then there's a whole dopamine thing with that.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:08:27] Yeah, it makes it more exciting.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:30] It does. I know. It shouldn't, but it does. I don't know if porn is healthy or unhealthy. Okay. I am not a medical professional. I've heard both sides of that story. I do lean towards the side of unhealthy, especially when consumed too much. I do think it's a vice, but it's unlikely to do real long term harm. In my totally layman's opinion, unless someone is doing too much of it, much like any other vice. You can smoke a cigar once a year, it probably is not going to kill you. That said, you're not wrong about unrealistic body image, the dark and seedy, I'm putting air quotes here, plotlines if we can call it that. I mean some of the stuff out there you're just like, “Ooh, somebody turned on by this.” I won't even mention it because you use your imagination and it's that gross and it's there in spades. There's more on the porn issue in a second, but in my view, your trust issue really isn't about porn though. I noticed in your letter you said, I don't think it's that easy to quit and I'm sure he still watches it. What I'm hearing here is that you asked him to do something but you somehow know that he's not adhering to your agreement, but you don't really know this, do you? It's an assumption. Would you have been happier if he had denied your request and said, “No, I like porn and I'm going to keep watching it?” I'm curious did the guy ever have a fighting chance at a good outcome for this situation. This sounds like a double bind. “Will you stop watching porn?” “No, I like it because I'm a deviant,” or, “Yes, sure.” And then now you feel shame every time you do because you lied to your girlfriend. I get why you did it. I'm not blaming you.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:01] It's a Kobayashi Maru. It's unwinnable.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:03] It's unwinnable. Yeah. I've never heard that term, but that's a—
Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:06] It’s a Star Trek reference.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:06] Yeah, it’s an unwinnable situation. I don't want to shame her. I don't think you did it on purpose. I think this is just, you were like, “Oh, I'll just handle this by asking him not to,” but now he's like crap. “Now what am I going to do?” It sounds like your complex past is informing your feelings now, which is you know how humans work. No surprise there. I think that since your sense of self-worth is heavily predicated on sex and your own desirability as per your own words, you might be conflating the love that your boyfriend has for you as the same feeling that he has towards random women on his computer screen and as a man who knows lots of other men, again, I have no sample size, is pretty small here, this is really two separate compartments for most guys that I know. We don't feel the same way about some random girl on the screen than we do towards somebody we talked to every day. This varies from person to person, but let's assume he's similar to me. If he is then anything he sees on that screen has nothing at all whatsoever to do with his real-life, outside of those 36 seconds, two minutes and 36 seconds, that he's indulging.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:15] I don't know about the two minutes. I think you should stick with the 36 seconds.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:17] I think I'm going to stick with the 36 seconds. I'm pushing 40, the clock is winding down. Ain't nobody got time for that, right?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:25] Exactly.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:29] I can assure you, very few men assume that they're treading on thin ice as far as monogamy is concerned. When they spend a handful of minutes a few times per week with a random video with a girl, they're never going to see you again. Sure. Some guys get much more into it, but the majority of us pay very little attention and nobody on a screen is ever going to replace the person we look forward to sharing our deepest fears and dreams with every single day. Trust me on that one. I'm not trying to speak for every guy, but I'm going to throw that out there. I also see this whole watching porn could lead to infidelity thing. I think that's a logical leap. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and I do see how you got there mentally, emotionally. It doesn't make you crazy. It's just a function of your own insecurity and I think you called it out yourself, and I think you're right. As humans, we often think other people think like we think, so all of these machinations going on inside your head, they're large of your own creation and you're importing them into your boyfriend's head. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but I am saying you've constructed that vision, that reality in your head. You could also imagine he's a hitman and sells meth to school kids on the way to work each day, but that doesn't make it any more true than it was when you imagined it. So, maybe you think that that's far fetched and your scenario is not, but they might be equally distant from the truth.
[00:12:52] Now, if your partner has a lower sex drive, that could be because he watches too much porn or it could be a function of stress or other hormones or his natural state of things. Either way, I do see how you could think of him getting off on random porn is taking away from your own enjoyment. This type of relationship issue. This is a job for a therapist and there's a lot going on here and almost all of it is actually a communication issue. Almost none of it is actually a porn issue, so you're going to want to see someone about this and when you do don't make it about porn. Don't shame your boyfriend into this. I recommend taking an attack that you want to handle some of your own troubled past, your baggage, your issues, whatever you want to refer to it as and you need his help in doing so. Then you get your therapist, let them take the reins on this, bring up the subject when the time is right as opposed to what might feel to him like an ambush. I think you're very right to assume that you're associating more emotion with your boyfriend's use of porn than he is. In fact, I almost promise you that's the case. I think the sooner you and he get on the same page, the stronger and better your relationship is going to be and thank you for trusting me with this. What an interesting situation. Please keep us posted here. This is as always fascinating. All right, Jason, what's next?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:14:13] Hi everyone. I am almost a 30-year-old who still has no idea what I want to be when I grow up. I spent the first six-ish years of my adult life working towards my dream job of becoming a military pilot. To my sheer delight, all of my hard work paid off and I got selected on my first try. Then a few months later, I was medically disqualified for the debilitating condition of being 0.7 inches too short. You read that right? Less than an inch cost me my dream job that was over four years ago and with no backup plan, I've basically been like a lost puppy ever since. I went back to school and got an MBA and have dabbled in several different industries since trying to find a new path that sparks even a fraction of the joy in me that being a pilot did, but nothing seems to stick. For everyone who's wondering, no, I can't be a civilian pilot or do anything else in aviation without several years and tens of thousands of more dollars’ worth of licensing and training. After a lot of self-reflection, I've come to the conclusion that this floundering through my attempts to rebuild my professional life is due to the fact that I have shiny object syndrome. Every time I pivot in a new direction, I hit a rough patch and think, well, I poured six years of my life into becoming a pilot that was arbitrarily taken away. So why should I continue down this difficult road and waste even more time? I'm not getting any younger. And then I looked for something newer, easier, and with faster results might not. Being able to get settled into a new career is holding up all of the other things we want to do, including starting a family. While my husband has been incredibly patient with me through all of this, I know he's getting tired of me continuing to dwell on my self-pity and my inability to commit to something, so we can move forward. He did get to be and is a pilot. I want to move on to the next phases of our life at least as badly as he does. I feel like I've just lost the drive I once had to work hard at something and see it through. Going back to school is off the table because I know the problem isn't that I lack marketable skills. It’s that I lack the drive to do anything useful with them. I don't want advice on finding a new passion. I know that will happen in a good time and I have bills to pay in the meantime. Instead, how do I break this victimhood mentality I've developed and just accept what happened in all of its unfairness and move on? How do I teach myself to work hard again, even if it's not my dream and learn to derive my happiness and fulfillment from other parts of my life that I do have control over? I look forward to your response because, with all of that debt from flight school and nothing to show for it, I can't afford a shrink. Thanks so much for your time. Signed, Pity Party Airlines.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:41] Ah yuck. I am really sorry to hear about this. I can imagine what this is like for you, especially after what sounds like an insanely, silly reason for being disqualified in the first place. How did the military let this happen? How was there no way around this? There just seems bonkers to me. I mean the only thing I can think of Jason is that like F35s are built with the pedals and the seats in a certain way and changing it is not easy and super expensive, so you just filter for a person that fits in it.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:17:08] That's the only thing I can think of for that. You know, those ships are built for a certain body style. So, you know, I'm like 220 pounds, I can't get in one. So, there have to be physical requirements for that and I'm sure they push the edge on it. If you're disqualified for your height, I'm sure that there's an actual reason for it. It sucks a lot, but sorry about that. That really does suck.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:32] It does. It's horrible. The problem was they let her get all the way through to what sounds like the end and then they were like, “Oh, we should have measured you.” Like, hello. Are you kidding? Yeah. Martin Seligman, a psychologist, found that three P's can stunt recovery. One is personalization. This is the belief that everything happens because of us. Everything that happens to us is because of us somehow. Children are like this. When a loved one dies, we blame ourselves and reflect on things that we could've done to prevent it. Our parents get divorced and we blame ourselves. It becomes a subconscious pattern. In reality, we can only do so much. Death is something that we cannot control. Pervasiveness, this is the belief that something that happens, an event affects every area of our life. This loss in one thing is equivalent to a loss of everything and I feel like that's kind of what's happening here. Permanence is the belief, what you might assume here, that this experience, this pain will last forever. We get hit by a major loss, a failure. It's really hard to detach ourselves from its lasting effects. I went through a lot of these three P's, it was only last year when we split from the other company. I remember looking at these and I remember smart people telling me, “This is going to be the best thing that ever happened to you. It's not going to last forever. You're better off now.” This doesn't affect your family, life, and your relationships unless you let it. It doesn't affect your friendships unless you let it. And also, this isn't something that you could have done. Because I remember being like, “If only I'd done this and that and the other thing," and you know, some of my friends were like, ”Oh yeah, different tactics.” And a couple of really smart friends of mine were like, “No, the outcome would have happened. You could have delayed it. You could have ended up with a worse situation. But this is because of crazy people's insecurities. Not because you did this one thing that caused it all to spiral out of control. Don't be ridiculous.” You know, you go through this and you ruminate on the three P's. This is all made worse, in my opinion, by comparing yourself to your husband who is a pilot. I think you're probably doing that subconsciously. I'm just getting that from your language and putting myself in your shoes and thinking about how I would behave. If you're not, pardon me, but I think it must be really hard to be living with somebody who's doing your dream job when you were this close. I think that's probably more painful. If he was a CPA and loved it and you weren't thinking about it all the time, then I think it would be different. I think it's probably also hard for him to share his joy with you knowing that it probably hurts you. So, I think this is probably damaging your relationship, but that's a separate issue.
[00:20:00] Now, you can eventually become a pilot. You just can't do it right now. Yes, it's expensive, but it's not impossible. This is not permanent far from it. Until you get back into a position to get in the cockpit at a flight school though, the one thing that has worked for me is to be so damn busy focusing on the next steps, that there's just no time for the pity party. I talked about this on Impact Theory a long time ago. That's another show that I like. When I separated from the old company, I felt like a blender with the top off. If you've ever had that happen to you, you know what mess it makes. It's just everything is going everywhere. It's the whole kitchen is covered. It's not a good situation. I needed to get focused. I needed to be like a laser because I had all this energy, I had all this momentum, I had all this fire in my belly, which I see that you have. I think you say you lack it, but you just don't know where to aim the cannon. You need to be like a laser. For me, action is what ended the suffering. Not sitting around ruminating. It was getting focused on the next steps and I know you were saying, “But that's what I'm asking you. I don't know the next steps.” You feel, and I understand this, you feel a massive amount of insecurity because you feel like the last thing that you worked hard for was taken away from you unfairly, and I don't disagree. This is akin to falling in love and then losing that person in some sort of tragic accident. It's understandable and the only thing that can heal it is time and the willingness to be vulnerable again. So, I can't tell you what to do next, but what I can tell you is to start working towards something, even if you don't feel passionate about it. Find some work, pay those bills. If you don't like it right away, that's fine. You can find your purpose elsewhere. If that means volunteering somewhere, starting your own non-profit, whatever. We don't find our passion; we develop it as we develop skills in certain areas. This is sort of the millennial quandary. “I want to do something I'm passionate about.” That comes later.
[00:21:59] I never started out to be an interviewer. I was just doing it because I was talking about my dating life and I was selling dating classes or something back in my twenties, I was just doing it. I enjoyed some of it. Now I'm more or less obsessed with it, but I have told this story a million times, but on the seventh year anniversary, I was interviewing Robert Green the first time. And he said, “Wow, you're pretty good at this.” And I said, “You know, this is the first time I've read the book for an interview. This is, you know, five years ago more.” And he said, “Wow.” And I thought, “What if I do this much work for every interview? I'll be great at this.” You know, that was the snowball. It took seven years for me to get to that point. So, by all means, now that you've cried yourself a river, build a bridge over it. I can't give you the courage to do that, but what I can tell you is that the only way you're ever going to be a pilot is by working your butt off. Get your bills paid, start focusing on your goals instead of running away from them because you're scared that they can be taken away from you again. I know that's easier said than done. I don't think you can't find what you want. You already know you want to be a pilot. You're just throwing the money obstacle in the way and then you're not solving the money obstacle because you're worried that you're going to end up getting hurt again. And I'd be lying if I said this can't happen again. You could lose everything tomorrow. Does that mean you should end your relationship with your family today because they could be gone tomorrow? Of course not. And yet here we are with you haven’t given up on your own goals and the idea that you can ever be happy. You've taken a major gut punch. I really do feel for you if it's very fresh in my memory. You and I both know that that's life. When this happened to me, I wallowed for a while. I understand the urge to do that, but then I got focused as hell. You obviously have what it takes to become a pilot in the military. No less minus seven-tenths of an inch, I guess. So, get a job, any job, and remember that everything you do there at that position that you hate, everything you do there every day you report to work is one step closer to reclaiming that title as an aviator. Okay, you can do this. Yeah, you might have to grind again, but that's the way you're going to get this back. Otherwise, your other choice is to sit around complaining about how unfair life is. Let me tell you, that's a treadmill that you're going to want to get off at some point, you might as well start now.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:24:13] This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:17] This episode is sponsored in part by NetSuite. The problem with all of these business softwares, these pieces of software, of course, is that they all have different dashboards. So, if you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business. So, everybody's got a dashboard but each piece of software has their own dashboard. It's always a hodgepodge of business systems that takes a lot of time. Most of it is not mobile-friendly. NetSuite by Oracle is the solution to this problem. So. It’s business management software that handles every aspect of your business in an easy to use cloud platform. It gives you visibility and control that you need to grow. We looked into this years ago, years ago we had NetSuite and it was awesome. It was by far the most comprehensive piece of software that we were using it at and still is probably one of the cornerstones of the business. With NetSuite, you save time, you save money. There's a lot of unneeded headaches that you can avoid because you could manage sales, finance, accounting, orders, HR right from the desktop and it's got a phone app. It's mobile-friendly. You can check in on your phone, which if you're as anal as I am is a big, big draw. So that's why NetSuite is a super popular cloud business system. And Jason, what do we have for them
Jason DeFillippo: [00:25:23] Right now NetSuite is offering you valuable insights with a free guide, Seven Key Strategies to grow your profits at netsuite.com/jordan. That's netsuite.com/jordan to download your free guide of Seven Key Strategies to grow your profits. netsuite.com/jordan.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:40] This episode is also sponsored by Blue Diamond Almonds. When I first got a Blue Diamond Almonds sponsor as a snack sponsor, I'll admit I was nothing to write home about. I was not so sure what I was getting into. We cracked these things open and we housed them. We've been annihilating these things and buying a ton more. If you've got a sweet tooth, they got you covered, they got honey roasted. If you like some spicy stuff like me, they've got sriracha, wasabi & soy sauce-flavored almonds. I know this sounds weird because you think almonds are just almond-flavored. These are the bombs. These are not a boring snack. They're probably a billion times healthier than any chips or whatever you're snacking on now. It's so good. Almonds are a superfood. I've heard Jason, so I'm not totally sure what superfood means, but—
Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:26] It's super!
Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:27] That's right. That's what I take from that. But these are legit, delicious and they pack really easily. They come in these little re-zippable Ziploc bags and I would say go for it. If you're looking for a snack that is super tasty, these will surprise you. I promise. Blue Diamond Almonds, you can find them wherever you find superfoods and snacks, I guess.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:47] So don't deny your cravings. Eat them Blue Diamond Almonds crave victoriously.
[00:26:53] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts from our amazing sponsors and to help keep this show going, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. And if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review on iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, head on over to jordanharbinger.com/subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:21] Alrighty, what else we got?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:22] Jay to the power of three. I run a spirituality-based healing business. I offer products and services that help many people with hundreds of tangible results. Being that this is a spiritual business, people seem to think that it's my obligation to give them products where I eat that cost and offer services for free. I get flooded with people in need and some have no desire to offer any sort of energy exchange, whether it's cash, food services, or even gratitude. I'm not sure how to keep the paradigm of a missionary type of practice, but not go broke or take resources which are time, energy, and focus from my own family to continue to be a good healer. It seems so unnatural that I would expect to take hours from people's time and resources and then feel content with offering nothing of value in return. I don't understand this method of operation. Am I kidding myself by thinking that if I keep doing what's really in my heart, that takers will fall out soon enough before I begin to take considerable losses? Just to clarify. I do a lot of pro bono work already. I mean a lot. It's the people who I feel deliberately deceived me to take from me without an exchange that's beginning to upset me. I do plan to open a non-profit organization as one of my life goals. It isn't that money is my main motivation here. My business is my passion. I want to keep it going and grow without letting feelings of resentment or injustice get in the way. You're a loyal listener, Maybe Not So Spiritual.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:45] Okay, so I'm going to put aside my personal thoughts and feelings on whatever you might mean by spiritual healing business. You guys know I'm a skeptic. You already know how I feel about this sort of thing. I don't want to be judgy and embarrass you. I already know you can hear it in my voice. I'm going to help you anyway. I don't want to be the type of person I dislike, which is a judgy a-hole even though that's really what I am secretly. That said, a business is a business. I totally understand that money is not your main motivation. I also understand that you do a lot of pro bono work. Only you can decide what amount of work satisfies your commitment to give back to the community. I suggest reframing things in your head like this. One—you provide a set of goods and services that provide value to others. They're valuable. Two—you need value in return in order to sustain your living doing this so that you can continue to provide these services for others. In other words, if people aren't paying for what you are doing for them, you can't continue to do this for very long and then nobody will be able to get help from you. You have to look at it that way. It's not selfish to take money for goods and services. It's only selfish if you're ripping people off and you know, I'll leave that issue lie because I do believe that you believe that you're helping people. You really can't get much simpler than that. If you give everything away, you'll be out of business. You can't help anyone else ever. If I were you, I would charge people for my services no matter what. If they say they can't afford it, then they apply to your non-profit or they get in line for your pro bono services. You don't find out when it's time to pay or right when they get there that they don't have any money. Okay. I think right now a lot of the people, maybe not all, but many of the people you think are your customers would never pay you any money for what you're doing. They don't actually value what you do. They just say that they do. Right now, it looks like they're taking advantage of you or that there are tons of people who need your service, but they can't afford it. But really, they value your services at basically zero and you're being compensated accordingly. So, at the end of the day, every business owner has this problem. It's just that when I walk into home depot and I see a drill that I need, it's hard for me to justify not paying for it because the value is really clear and there's a number stamped right on the box and it's a tangible good. For you being in whatever profession it is that you're in, the value is much more vague and therefore your services are much harder to value. So, most people being a little bit lazy to do that sort of math, they value it at zero or they're skeptical as well, whether it's going to work or not, so they value it at zero. I do consulting via phone. Here's an example, many people ask how much it costs. I priced my time at about a thousand dollars an hour. Those who pay this often say, “Wow, that was expensive, but it is a bargain because I saved so much time. I learned so much. I don't have to spend weeks and weeks and weeks doing this thing you talked me out of doing.” If they’re nonprofit, military, I bump it down to 600 an hour or so. If they can't afford that, typically they just don't need what I'm offering, and I found that to be almost universally true. You'd be very surprised at how many people simply cannot live without 30 minutes of my time or an hour of my time or so they say in their email and then once they find out the price, they suddenly seem to figure things out on their own. They can't be bothered to respond or suddenly, “Hey, look, I am, I'm just going to do this other thing instead.”
Jason DeFillippo: [00:32:12] It's like magic.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:13] It's like magic, right, exactly. Here's the thing you're not going to find on Google what I'm going to tell you. ”Hey, I'm a financial consultant and I want to do a podcast and do a personal branding thing.” You're going to spend hundreds of hours researching and doing this experiment and finding what I could tell you in an hour on the phone. That's valuable because I will save you that time. But suddenly when I'm 600,000 bucks an hour, there are a ton of people that won't do it. Now, look, if you're a college student and you have a couple of quick questions, shoot them to me. We'll do it on Feedback Friday. You need something tailored that's different. So set your prices, set your policies, stick to him. If you feel bad about it, do a certain number of pro bono hours each week and then stop worrying about it. Literally, just don't even think about it anymore. You've got bills like everyone else. You're building a business. You don't owe anybody anything other than to fulfill your end of the bargain in exchange for their tuition or their money. That's all you owe them is that value. And once you provide that, you don't owe them any sort of goodwill because they're broken, they can't afford it. Imagine if restaurants operated this way. “Hey, I'm really hungry and I can't afford it.“ “Well, okay. You're not able to afford it or you just don't want to pay? Nice iPhone 10, by the way, you know that you're checking in the waiting room?” You see, there's a meme that's a little bit non-PC, but what does this Jason, it was like one of those some e-cards.com, you remember those, those funny ones.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:40] Oh, those are great.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:42] It was like one day I hope to be able to afford a nice iPhone like the girl in front of me in line with the food stamps.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:33:48] Yeah, something like that.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:50] Look, if somebody can't afford your services, they can't afford your services. It would be different if you're a doctor and someone says, “I can't afford cataract surgery,” and you're like, “Oh my gosh, this person's blind.” These people are coming to you for an optional spiritual consult. They will be fine if they don't get it. Okay. Next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:34:09] Hi all. I'm curious how people transition from getting experience to getting paid. I've been a freelance creative focused on composition, sound design, and audio production for theater, film, TV, and commercial projects for the past four years. I started with a 100-project planned focus to say yes to anything so I could gain experience, find my community and push through the imposter syndrome. It took me twice as long as I planned to hit that target and thankfully, I'm very close to hitting that magic number. On the positive side, it's brought me to stages I thought were out of my reach, 2,500 seat auditoriums, international film festivals, award nominations for and composing music for nationally aired commercials. Things are moving in the right direction and on the surface, it sounds sexy and makes great material for my bio. The reality is I have an opportunity to take on more projects with a larger scope, but as I take on more, I perceive there is less room for failure as the stakes are higher and that failure was once my zone for learning or growth opportunities for the last 100 projects. I still have many fun and free projects, but I'm finding they're getting less attention or not happening because I prioritize the ones that get me paid. Well, I would like to bring on someone part-time. The projects can be unpredictable and sometimes come in waves. Financially I'm coming close to hitting a break-even point and also catching up financially for the past few years of learning. I'm curious to see how other creative entrepreneurs determine what projects to say yes to be at time, money, fulfillment, et cetera, how to juggle multiple projects with variable schedules and I know growth comes when you're getting in over your head, but how do you avoid burnout when there's nobody to delegate to. Thanks for your time. Looking to Go Pro.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:48] Okay, great strategy to get experience. It sounds like you've paid your dues or you're coming close to your goal. I think you've paid your dues here. Mixing free and paid work is very tough. Kind of goes to our earlier question here. You can do free work and you can do paid work, but mixing free and paid is a little bit tricky. It can get tricky. I'd suggest in your situation doing only paid work or mostly paid work for the next, let's say a few years, maybe pick one pro bono project per quarter or whatever works for your time, perhaps it's a set number of hours. If you take on too much pro bono work, it will naturally take a backseat to what gets you paid. And that's not fair to the pro bono projects. It's not fair to you because you're going to end up working yourself to the bone, disappointing your pro bono people. It's just going to be miserable all around. Trust me, you're not doing anyone any favors by overstretching what you can do. For me, I only take on projects that are both fulfilling and that I can prioritize, and get me paid in that order. So, fulfilling, things I have time for—prioritize, and they get me paid in that order. If you optimize for fulfillment, which is what I'm doing, nothing, almost nothing you do feels like work. If after that you optimize what you have time for, you won't feel overworked. And if after those two boxes are ticked, you optimize for finances. You won't have to worry about money. Now, of course, you have to balance these three things, right? If what's fulfilling and what you decide to make time for is not paid, then you have to limit that stuff so that you can pay the bills. But I would only make enough to pay the bills and focus on that pro bono stuff. Now, if you can figure out what gets you paid, what you can make time for, and what is fulfilling to you, that's the sweet spot. That's that Venn diagram that we see all the time online. I see a lot of freelancers and business owners struggle when they optimize for money because they end up feeling unfulfilled. They end up burning out, they dropped the ball on things they were doing. They lose clients. This is a failure of the organization, not a fact of doing business.
[00:37:55] When people go, how do I avoid burnout? I don't know if I'm just a weirdo, I don't burn out. I love what I'm doing. Yeah, I could use a vacation here and there, but I think about work a lot on that vacation or I'm reading books and going, “Oh, I want to interview this person when I'm done.” That's how I relax. If you're going, “Ugh, today I got to do this.” You're burning out and it's because you are not prioritizing properly for things that are going to fulfill you. You’re focused too much on one of these pillars, one of these three pillars. As far as juggling projects with variable schedules though this is both a communication issue with people on your project team and an issue of prioritizing certain projects over others. You need to learn how to do this and you over time, but in the meantime, I highly suggest keeping a public calendar. Something that other people can see. Something like Google calendar, it can show when you're busy and when you're free. It doesn't have to say, you know, I'll have a Chinese lesson at 9:00 AM, you can just say busy. Keep your calendar religiously. Put everything in there that you're going to do. You're going to the gym, put it in the calendar. You got an email block, put it in the calendar. You're free for an hour and you want people to be able to reach you, put it in the calendar. Use something like Schedule Once –we'll link to that in the show notes— for people to book time with you. They can click and book half an hour of your time if they want to talk about something, if they want to book a meeting, whatever. This way if someone says, “All right, we're filming Tuesday.” You can say, “Oh, did you book that on my calendar,” and they can admit that they didn't and then they can go, “Oh, it looks like you're booked that whole day.” As much as you can let others work around you. I know you don't always have that luxury but explain that you're working on multiple projects and need to know in advance when they might need you.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:30] I realize this is tricky, but this is mandatory for success in your industry and in any industry as we're avoiding burnout. I kind of touched on that earlier, but this one is easy other than what I mentioned before. Make sure you're taking time off at least a day a week. Make sure you're hitting the gym. That's been most important for me. And if you prioritize what fulfills you like I said earlier, you probably won't burnout. I haven't burned out. I've been at it like crazy for a while now. This is because I optimize for what is fulfilling, what I can prioritize, and then what pays the bills in that order. It's tempting to go for the money first, but unless you are desperate and, in the hole, don't take the bait.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:40:11] We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this.
[00:40:14] Support for The Jordan Harbinger Show comes from our friends at Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans. Home is so much more than a house. It's your own little slice of heaven. That's why when you find the perfect place for you and your family getting a mortgage shouldn't get in the way. Finding the right house isn't easy but finding the right mortgage can be. Rocket Mortgage is doing more to help you understand the home buying process so you can get exactly what you need because it's not just a mortgage, it's your mortgage and they found a better way. Their team of mortgage experts is obsessed with finding a better way, which means that their number one goal is to make the home buying process smoother for you. Take the home buying process work for you. In fact, Rocket Mortgage is there with award-winning client service and support every step of the way. Quicken Loans has helped millions of Americans achieve their dream of homeownership. And when you're ready to purchase the home of your dreams, they can help you too. When you work with them, you get more than just a loan because Rocket Mortgage is more than just a lender. Visit RocketMortgage.com/JORDAN and take the first step towards the home of your dreams. Equal Housing Lender. Licensed in all 50 states. NMLSConsumerAccess.Org #3030. Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans. Push the button, get mortgage.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:22] This episode is also sponsored in part by Ship. So Jen and I had been together for seven years. We just had a baby so I never thought I'd be able to credibly advertise a dating app. When I started dating Jen, dating apps were new, now websites but apps themselves. Now there's a new app called the ship that we actually both have been sort of guilty pleasure using because it lets you swipe for your friends. So, we've been using it to set up my brother-in-law. He dates a ton and he's on every app and we're like, “Oh wouldn't it be fun? Instead of you just sending screenshots of who you're looking at, we actually get to pick for you,” and you basically get to recommend. So, here's how it works. If you're single, you invite a group of friends to join your crew. Those friends can help you find matches. And the best part, if you're not single like me, you can still join. You help your friends out. You don't need to make a profile or anything like that. You literally just joined your friends' crew and start swiping. So, you get to swipe, but you don't have to go on bad dates. You can set your friend up with those. And one of the fun things about Ship is there's a group chat so you can share profiles and be like, what do you think of this? Go back and forth. It's really funny to see who Jen is picking for her brother versus who I picked for him. She is much judgier in certain departments than I am and she reads the profile and everything. I'm just, I'm just swiping, so it's actually quite fun. It turns other people's dating lives into a game which how did they not have this before. Jason.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:42:43] Finding data is more fun if you do it with friends. Download Ship the dating app that lets you swipe with friends. That's S-H-I-P. Search for Ship dating in the app store and start swiping today.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:55] This episode is also sponsored in part by Progressive.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:42:58] Saving money on your car insurance is easy with Progressive. It's an average savings of $699 a year for customers who switch and save. In fact, customers can qualify for an average of six discounts on their auto policy when they switch to Progressive. Discounts for just starting a quote online or owning multiple vehicles. Get your quote online at progressive.com and see how much you could be saving. Discounts not available in all states and situations.
[00:43:23] Thank you for listening and supporting our show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air and to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard so you can check out our amazing sponsors, visit jordanharbinger.com/deals. Now back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:43:42] Okay, next up.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:43:44] Hey Jordan, Jason, and Jen. My girlfriend wants me to list off all the names of the people that I've dated and slept with in the past. Then she wants me to go through and delete all of them of social media. Her mental health hasn't been great lately and she's lacking self-confidence. She constantly compares herself to other women, both in person and on social media. I personally don't think I should have to list off all the names. I also believe that she'll go through social media to find all of these people, compare herself to them, and then completely avoid them if we ever run into them in person. I don't want this to be the case. I do have a couple of ex-partners that I completely avoid because of bad experiences. However, I have no problem with most of my previous partners. I don't have regular contact with them, but I'll gladly say hello and catch up if I see them in person, I would even be completely okay with her becoming friends with these. I also told her that I would inform her after she meets them because I would prefer that she form her own opinions first. At the beginning of our relationship, she asked me this same question and requested that I delete them all. I told her that I would give her a rough estimate of how many people have dated and slept with. I told her that I dated around 20 people and slept with around 15 after that she asked if I had been tested for STDs. I had not, so the next week, I went off and got tested all clear. This has come up multiple times over the past six months. I always give her reassurance. I tell her how much I love her and tell her that I would like to work with her to build some more self-confidence, something she admits that she's lacking. I've told her that it makes me feel like she doesn't trust me, which she claims is not the case. She then persists that I named them all and delete them from social media again. Do you have any advice on how to handle this? I love my girlfriend and would hate for this to continue to cause tension between us. Do I list the names for? do I request that she see a therapist about this? I just don't know what to do. Keep up the great work and thanks again. Signed, Due to Trying to Do His Best.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:45:38] Wow. Yeah. This is so out of line. I know you love your girlfriend and so take this with love. She is deeply, deeply insecure and it is not your fault. There's no reason you need to list off those names. This is actually none of her business. You're all clear on STDs and thus nothing you've done in your past in terms of your relationships is really any of her concern, at least not in the way that she seems to think. She needs therapy here, man. I highly suggest in-person therapy or barring that, use something like BetterHelp, betterhelp.com/jordan. They’re a sponsor for the show. They'll give you a little discount. You can do it that way to dip your toes in the water. I also recommend taking a session or two of the therapy with her so she feels you're on her team and you're not just sort of outsourcing your relationship woes to a therapist or that you're like, “Yeah, this is your problem, not mine.” You know, go with it together. The thing is, even if you listed off all the names, you deleted all of those people, my theory, my gut says she's going to creep their profile. She's going to endlessly compare herself to them and then find some other thing that you have to do in order to regain her approval, regain her trust, like, ”Oh, I saw that you're going to this thing and there's going to be other girls that look like some of the girls that you dated there, so you can't go to this thing now,” or “Oh, are you working with this person? Well, they kind of look like Angela from 20 years ago and so I don't want you to go near her because I know you're attracted to women like that.” This is, this is a bottomless pit. People with self-worth issues in these relationships, this can become a bottomless pit. I'm not saying that she's a bottomless pit of energy or a vampire or anything. I'm just saying there's nothing you're going to be able to do to fill this. She has to fill this hole herself. I know that you're worried about this causing tension in your relationship. Guess what I'd argue it already has. It's not going to solve itself. This will get worse. You need to set boundaries and get her on the path to fixing this or you're going to drive yourself crazy in the process. The sooner you get this handled, the better. Moving right along. What else we got?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:47:46] Hey, Jay's. I just managed to stick my foot right in my mouth and could really use your help. Last week I received a text from someone, let's call them Sam. The tech said, “Long time, no see.” I've only recently worked with one Sam, a male Sam, so naturally, I assumed it was the same Sam. The person texting me, sent a business proposition and I agreed to have a phone meeting with this Sam and their boss, let's call him Joe. I get into the conference call and one other person is there a male voice. Because I assumed both Sam and Joe are male. I asked, “Is this Sam or Joe?” The voice on the other end gets audibly annoyed and says, “This is Joe.” Right then Sam enters the call and it's a woman. Clearly, I met some other Sam at a conference or networking event, but I have no recollection of this female Sam because I assumed it was the male Sam I've worked with in the past. I've been engaging in this new Sam as if we're old pals. I have no idea how to track back and confirm how we actually met, plus I just insulted her boss in her first business meeting by insinuating that he sounds like a woman. So how do I respond when someone texts me a long time, no see and I'm not certain who they are? That kind of text sounds like something you send to an old buddy, so I feel bad admitting that. I don't actually know for sure who I'm talking to. Also, how do I move forward with a relationship right now? Is there some sneaky way for me to find out where I met this person? I've looked through my emails and texts and the only other Sam I can find is the male Sam. Any ideas on how I can work backward and clear this up? As always, thank you so much for what you do. You guys are great. Signed, Foot Firmly in Mouth.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:49:20] Oh wow. Yeah. This is quite a funny miscommunication for me. Whenever people sign with only their first name, sign a text, whatever, I just reply, “What's your full name? I don't have your number saved.” Yeah, it's a little awkward in the beginning. I don't really care. For me, it's a lot better than, “What's your last name, dummy I meet like 300 new people every month and half of them are named Sam. Give me a freaking break.” I mean it's a little unrealistic that she should expect you to know who she is. Say I don't do that, ask them for their full name, and you can say, “I want to make sure that I saved your number of this time.” And I often ask for email. If I'm again, not sure who they are ago, I'm saving your number. What's the best email for you? Then I can search my email inbox. I can search LinkedIn and I can search the internet. Sometimes I find that they're random people who got my number from someone else or we met three years ago and they were selling something then and they're probably selling something now. Not cool. I'd say, here, you should come clean now that you're already this far along, don't let it go any further. Tell Sam, “I don't remember where we met and it's been driving me nuts.” Also explained you thought she might've been another Sam, a guy that you used to work with. This should clear up any miscommunication. It might make her think less weird. As for her boss getting offended and thinking you're an idiot. You can bring it up if you're ever with him in person and that'll get a laugh. Otherwise, just forget about it. Who cares? It's a conference line. Maybe you couldn't hear that. Well, if someone thought I was a woman on the phone, it wouldn't bother me at all. I'd forget about it in 30 seconds. If he's still annoyed, whatever that's on him. Who cares? I mean, it doesn't sound like a big deal. That should solve the issue. Next time make darn sure anyone who's number isn't in your phone can be identified visually by plugging their info into LinkedIn first before you agree to the next steps. As my cousin used to say, smooth move X lacks. All right. Last but not least.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:51:05] Hey Jay-4. How do you form meaningful relationships with your superiors? I'm a 24-year-old software developer who will be joining the industry workforce soon and I found that I've always been on the reserved side when it comes to interacting with my bosses, preferring to remain friendly but professional at all times. This has worked for me in creating solid network contacts in the past, but I've noticed that my past bosses will usually prefer to crack jokes and talk about more personal topics with my other coworkers. I'm normally a great conversationalist, but when it comes to a superior, I find myself worrying too much about accidentally saying the wrong thing in the conversation ends up stagnating well. My employment so far has been limited to part-time work unrelated to my field. I'm worried that this will become a problem later on. Any help with this would be appreciated. Best regards, Keeping It Professional.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:54] Well, I can certainly empathize with this situation. I'm also a little bit quiet in the beginning. I know this sounds surprises everyone, but in many situations, especially employment, I will often be quiet in the beginning because I'm sort of trying to play things long term. And also, sometimes we're just not feeling outgoing. So, I feel your pain here. It is better in my opinion, to be quiet than to say the wrong thing. Let me tell you when I first started my job, my first job on Wall Street, I thought, “Oh, I've got to reinvent myself and be outgoing because all these New Yorkers are so outgoing and I got to be funny.” Well, one of my bosses, his initials were S-O-B and he had them embroidered on the cuff of his shirt. And I said, “Oh, your initials are S-O-B.” And then he's like, ”Yep.” And I just went, “Oh, huh.” And then I was like, “Oh my god, I'm going to get fired.” And then he just sort of looked the other way. And I heard about it from HR, like, don't try to be funny with partners. And I was like, yeah, that turned out to be a really crap law firm. I hated working there. The other firm I went to after was full of like Brooklyn, Italian guys. And I'd be like, you would, you'd hear them go, “Hey, what's up? S-O-B, what are you doing? What are you doing this weekend? What are you jerks doing?” You know, like that's how they would talk. And it was awesome.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:53:08] Yeah, I was going to say, that sounds like a much better place to work. You don't want to work with people who don't have a sense of humor.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:53:13] No, no Linklaters. It's a British law firm where I worked, even the Americans there. I was like, “Wow.” You guys should be in the diamond business, shove a piece of coal up your wazoo and in a week it'll come out. You guys are forgetting billable hours, you know? And then I went to work at Thacher Proffitt & Wood and it was so laid back and cool. And I remember the guys there were cool. The women there were cool, everybody got along and it was just like the perfect balance of cool workspace. And of course, then it went out of business because we were overleveraged and financial derivatives, but oops, you know. Look, the workplace thing, it takes some getting used to. Don't beat yourself up about it. You can use the plunging stone, the FEW. We did this last week on Feedback Fridays. So I'm going to tell you now, it's actually in Six-Minute Networking. So instead of going over it again here, it's a conversation formula for generating rapport and it is in Six-Minute Networking, which is at jordanharbinger.com/course. It's in the bonus section. We just put it up there. I made a video for all of you because I find myself giving this answer a lot and it's like a three-minute sort of explanation.
[00:54:19] Feel free though to join conversations if they're happening around you. If people are joking around, join in whatever, it doesn't matter, don't sweat it. It takes me a while to open up with some people as well like I said, and it takes other people more time to open up around me too and once it happens, everyone's pretty much on equal footing. I don't feel like anyone is ahead of you or anything. Some people are just better at networking than others, but it's seldom the office jokester as I found out the hard way. You can find those networking skills at jordanharbinger.com/course. Again, it is free and the FEW principle is up there along with some other stuff as well.
[00:54:55] Life Pro Tip of the Week. If you're looking to cut the cord, you know, getting ready to get rid of cable and all that, you know they're going to badger you, they're going to badger you and badger you into not leaving. What you do tell them you're moving out of state to a state where they don't offer services. Your cancellation call will take a fraction of the time. It works for mobile phone service as well. Jason, you had a little hack tool for this?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:55:17] Yeah, I mean nowadays you can just say you're moving back in with your parents or in with your fiancée and they've already got surface. Once you have that on the line, then it's a quick call.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:25] Oh, right. Because they're like, “Great, we're not really losing a customer. We're just consolidating. All right, whatever.” Then they're going to go, “Do you want to upgrade to the HBO package when you're there,” and you're like, “Oh, she already has that. What's her name?” “Uh, never mind. Bye.” Yeah, I mean, they're not going to ask you that. That's a little personal. I think you could get away before that.
[00:55:40] Recommendation of the week. Jason, I don't know if you've checked this out. Happy Jail on Netflix
Jason DeFillippo: [00:55:44] Have not seen this one yet.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:55:46] So I started watching this randomly and Netflix is really good at getting you to just like turn it on and then you're indecisive, so something starts playing. At least it does on my Xbox Media Center. It just will start. And this is a Philippine jail known for these viral Michael Jackson thriller dance video. Do you remember that?
Jason DeFillippo: [00:56:04] I totally remember that. Yeah, that was, that was a classic.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:56:07] So my buddy sailor Joe, who's I've talked about on the show, he has been there. He lived in the Philippines for a while. He went and danced with them. I don't know how they run prisons in the Philippines. Happy Jail is a reality show about how an ex-convict comes under…he starts managing the prison and he sparks controversy and criticism, but prison in the Philippines, at least at this place, you're just hanging out most of the time. And it's like complete chaos. Overcrowding. People are just roaming around. They basically run the place; they just can't leave. And I've heard, I've heard about that in South America. Central American prisons too. It's just crazy. Sailor Joe actually told me, and this is not in Happy Jail, that the warden uses certain prisoners as assassins because think about it. They're in there for violent crime. A lot of them are gang-affiliated. Their payment is a day to go and visit and get some freedom. But think about this while we think it was that guy, he's in prison. He couldn't have done it. End of investigation. So, it's a brilliant alibi. It'll let somebody out of jail and then let them back in especially when the jail's not that bad and they just live nicely. Probably get their own cell or something, you know? It's just crazy. Anyway, so Happy Jail is a reality show about this prison. It's pretty interesting. It's ridiculous. But it's pretty interesting.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:57:22] So that took a strange turn at the end. I know, I was expecting some like you know some jail where the guy comes in and he knows how crappy it is. So, he turned it into a super like happy place prison where people are reformed. Nope, you're just going to go kill people for us.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:57:37] Well it's about, it's about the dancing. The assassin thing is not in the series though. I told Sailor Joe and I was like, “Hey, have you seen Happy Jail?” He's like, ”No.” Funny story about that place. The warden who was the warden when I lived near Cebu city, actually the rep was if you wanted somebody off, you went to go see him and a prisoner would do it.
Jason DeFillippo: [00:57:54] Wow. Okay. Ooh, doggy. Well yeah, I've got a recommendation that's a little ha. Well, maybe not that much happier. If you like the Rob Reid episode, I highly, highly recommend 12 monkeys if you haven't seen it yet. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. It is the dystopian future of what would happen if somebody does create a superbug in wipes out most of civilization, but it does have time travel and Bruce Willis, so it’s a fine, fine movie directed by Terry Gilliam.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:58:23] I remember it was a big impact when I was in high school. A lot of people love that. I hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. By the way, a little note, She Podcast is an event my friend is running, She Podcasts Live. It's a literal who's who of talented and wildly successful women, podcasters giving their all to make sure you have everything you need to make your podcast soar to the next level. You can get tickets at shepodcastslive.com. That’s Thursday, October 10th through Sunday, October 13th, 2019 October 10 through 13. 2019 shepodcastslive.com it's at the Atlanta Marriott Marquis and should be a great event. I would go but I have a tiny baby so I can't go, and Atlanta is an awesome town. So, if you want to go to Atlanta and you want to get podcasting knowledge, go to the shepodcastslive.com especially if you are a woman.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:59:17] A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Quick shout out to Justin Phillips. He gave us a nice compliment. Thanks for being able to handle political topics without being obviously one-sided or pandering to the left or the right. And he said he's been using Six-Minute Networking techniques for a few weeks now and blown away by the responses that he's been getting to the point where his wife is jealous. I'll take it. Thank you very much, Justin. I appreciate you listening and actually applying what you hear. Amazing. I love that.
[00:59:46] Go back and check out the Frank Abagnale and Rob Reid episodes that we created for you this week. If you haven't yet, and if you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships using systems and tiny habits, checkout Six-Minute Networking. It's a free course, Jordan harbinger.com/course. The problem is that people think I'm going to work on this networking stuff when I need the network. You can't do that. You got to dig the well before you're thirsty. Once you need relationships, you're way too late. The drills take a few minutes a day. Ignore it at your own peril. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. You can find all of it for free at Jordan harbinger.com/course. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at @JordanHarbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show videos of our interviews at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. Jason.
Jason DeFillippo: [01:00:32] My personal website is over at jpd.me and you can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks at gog.show or your podcast player of choice.
Jordan Harbinger: [01:00:40] The show is produced in association with PodcastOne and this episode was co-produced by Jen Harbinger. Show notes for the episode by Robert Fogarty. Music by Evan Viola. Keeps sending in those questions to firstname.lastname@example.org. Our advice and opinions and those of our guests are their own. And yes, I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others, so share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got lots more in the pipeline. We're excited to bring it to you. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so that you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.
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