Your boyfriend faces serious allegations from his past. You want to trust him, but doubts linger. How do you uncover the truth? Welcome to Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- You’re dating a man whose ex-girlfriend accused him of molesting her son and his own children. He claims innocence, but you’re torn between trusting him and your gut feelings. What steps can you take to uncover the truth while maintaining your integrity and safety?
- Your father, recently single and grieving, is asking to move into your new home. You and your partner want your own space, but you feel guilty given all your father has done for you. How do you balance family obligations with your own needs?
- You were recruited into what seemed like a promising business opportunity, only to discover it was an MLM scheme. The tactics used were manipulative and cult-like. What red flags did you encounter, and how did you respond?
- Your father is nearing the end of his life, leaving behind an inheritance. Your mother suggests giving up your share for your struggling siblings. You’re torn between fairness and helping family. How do you decide what’s right?
- Recommendation of the Week: Anker Prime Power Bank
- You’re interested in starting therapy but unsure about what “processing emotions” actually entails. You’re also concerned about the cost. How can you make the most of therapy and find affordable options? [Thanks to clinical psychologist Dr. Erin Margolis for helping us with this one!]
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi.
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
Please Scroll Down for Featured Resources and Transcript!
Please note that some of the links on this page (books, movies, music, etc.) lead to affiliate programs for which The Jordan Harbinger Show receives compensation. It’s just one of the ways we keep the lights on around here. Thank you for your support!
Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!
Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom!
Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger!
This Episode Is Sponsored By:
- Brooks Running Shoes: Head over to brooksrunning.com to grab your pair
- BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/jordan
- Transcend: 15% off your first order at transcendcompany.com/jordan
Miss the show we did with Tip “T.I.” Harris — award-winning rapper, actor, entrepreneur, family man, philanthropist, author, activist, and host of the expediTIously podcast? Catch up with episode 262: Tip “T.I.” Harris | ExpediTIously Expressive!
Resources from This Episode:
- Andrew Bustamante | The Psychology of Espionage Part One | Jordan Harbinger
- Andrew Bustamante | The Psychology of Espionage Part Two | Jordan Harbinger
- Taking My First Hot Barre Class…Any Tips/Recommendations? | r/PureBarre
- “Quiet Cabin Policy” | r/AmericanAirlines
- Stop People Listening to Things on Phone Speakers in Public Places | r/UnethicalLifeProTips
- Confirmation Bias | The Decision Lab
- Best Background Check Sites for October 2024 | Investopedia
- NASA’s Perseverance Rover Launches to Mars | NASA Science
- How to Set Boundaries with Family After a Death or Loss | Refinery 29
- ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’s’ Robert Kiyosaki Says He’s $1.2 Billion in Debt Because ‘If I Go Bust, the Bank Goes Bust. Not My Problem’ | Yahoo! Finance
- Rich Dad Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money — That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not! by Robert T. Kiyosaki | Amazon
- Why Do People Get Scammed? | Freakonomics
- My Experience of Being in a Pyramid Scheme (Amway) by Darren Mudd | LinkedIn
- How to Rescue Your Loved One from an MLM Scam | Feedback Friday
- Why are “Pyramid Schemes” illegal? | r/ExplainLikeImfFive
- 90% of the Time, Parents Aren’t Toxic Every Time | Feedback Friday | Jordan Harbinger
- How to Save Yourself and Loved Ones from Scams | Jordan Harbinger
- How to Avoid Scams | Deep Dive | Jordan Harbinger
- Facing Father Figure’s Fatality and Faults | Feedback Friday | Jordan Harbinger
- Would a Girlboss Wife Ruin Your Boyboss Life? | Feedback Friday | Jordan Harbinger
- When Your Employee Defrauds the Government | Feedback Friday | Jordan Harbinger
- Sexsomnia Guilt-Free After PTSD? | Feedback Friday | Jordan Harbinger
- I Wish It Were Cheaper to Be My Sister’s Keeper | Feedback Friday | Jordan Harbinger
- How to Fire Someone You Care About | Feedback Friday
- Am I Wrong for Not Wanting to Share My Inheritance with My Brother? | r/AmIWrong
- Patrimony: A True Story by Philip Roth | Amazon
- Anker Prime 27,650mAh Power Bank (250W) | Amazon
- Dr. Erin Margolis | Website
1066: Is Ex on the Level for Calling Him The Devil? | Feedback Friday
This transcript is yet untouched by human hands. Please proceed with caution as we sort through what the robots have given us. We appreciate your patience!
[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Special thanks to Brooks running shoes for sponsoring this episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show.
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with feedback Friday producer, my Barbara, helping me carry this existential cargo, Gabriel Rahi.
[00:00:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's right. Just twerking our way through these life conundrum.
[00:00:20] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, have fun with it. 5, 6, 7, 8, 7, 8.
Yeah, that's such a good moment. We did hot bar. Let that sweaty image invade your consciousness on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, former jihadi, undercover agents, gold smugglers astronauts, tech luminaries. This week we had Andrew Busante, friend of mine, a former CIA operative, and we talked a lot about CIA training, screening, geopolitical events, current events.
Great. If you're thinking about joining the agency, interested in current events, geopolitics, maybe you're a Kremlin or Iranian intelligence agent looking for some insight, you'll find it in this week's episodes. On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and regrettably admit that Gabe might have turned me into a hot yoga aficionado in training.
Yes.
[00:01:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. I love that.
[00:01:24] Jordan Harbinger: I'm not wearing the hat. That was a one time only thing, though.
[00:01:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: One step at a time, man. It's
[00:01:29] Jordan Harbinger: all right. We'll get there. There's something about sweating that much that, I don't know if it's an endorphin thing or what, but you just come out and you just feel like lighter. Mm-Hmm. I mean, you're literally lighter because the water, but I mean, sort of existentially lighter.
Probably because you can't worry about anything when your body is fighting to survive. Mm-Hmm. Rapid dehydration. Don't question it too much. Yeah. Just enjoy it. Mm-Hmm. Before we dive in today, I was thinking about all the letters we get from people who are trying to make big changes in their lives and how hard it can be sometimes.
And I think a lot of people, myself included, of course, delay taking action on something or starting something new because they hope to avoid pain, discomfort, suffering, whatever it is. And many people are trying to find a way to achieve their goals that somehow doesn't have these costs, maybe even have any costs.
But the problem here is as time goes on, we usually end up with more responsibility, not less, which only incurs more pain, discomfort, and trade-offs. For example, if you're busy right now because you just started your career and you think like, oh, I'll get that certification later, or I'll, I'll work on that side hustle or that foreign language down the line, then you end up getting promoted or you get married or you have kids.
Then it's a lot harder. It's very hard, maybe even impossible to do something new because you've got so much more responsibility. So projecting ourselves into a false future, putting things off sidestepping, discomfort, it just, it doesn't work. And some form of discomfort and trade off is always inevitable.
The process of taking action now is really taking the initiative of choosing your pain today instead of letting it kind of sneak up on you in some other form in the future instead. And that's something I've been thinking about, something worth keeping in mind when you feel like hitting the old proverbial snooze button on your goals and dreams.
'cause it doesn't ever get easier later
[00:03:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: really. No, it really doesn't. That's a good reminder. I'm doing that on a couple things right now, so I feel called out and I appreciate it. By the way, before we dive into the letters, Jordan, I have something funny I need to tell you. I forgot to tell you about my trip to Peru a few weeks, weeks ago.
Uh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Tell me. All right, so, you know, anyone listening right now knows that we are. So annoyed when people listen to things on speaker phone in public, like a FaceTime call or a YouTube video, any of that. Watching TikTok in an airport terminal or, yeah, listening to the news at a cafe super loud on their phone without headphones drives me up the wall.
By the way, a few of you guys have written me emails in solidarity, and I really appreciate that. 'cause I thought I was just hypersensitive to noise, which I am. But it turns out so many people are annoyed about this, and yet there are so many people out there who just think that wherever they go, it's like their living room and they can just do whatever they want.
Anyway, I was on this American Airlines flight. I think this was on the return, so I was flying back from Lima. I went for my cousin's wedding. And there was a guy watching TikTok videos while we were waiting for the plane to take off. And the flight attendant passed by a seat and said, sir, I need you to put headphones in.
Nice. And I was like, what? And everyone turned their head and looked at it like, thank you. And then 10 minutes later she did it with another person. She was like, sir, you gotta turn it off. You gotta put headphones in. And I was like, this is incredible. Is this a movement? Is something happening here? Mm-Hmm.
Are we finally taking our quiet back? And she said to the second guy, we have a quiet cabin policy on flight. I love it. And I was like, the quiet cabin policy. Yes. Can we make this a thing? Everywhere. Not just on planes like the QCP, wherever we go. That's the new rule.
[00:04:46] Jordan Harbinger: We used to have that and not, not to all be all like back in my day, what we didn't have smartphones.
But the thing is, if you have any sense of manners at all, you already keep a quiet cabin policy wherever you, you know that you shouldn't do that. Yes. Meanwhile though, people are like, I'm gonna have a full volume FaceTime conversation with my son and my grandson at the airport terminal, and everyone around can hear you and you're just like, how do you lack the self-awareness to know that this is not
[00:05:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: polite?
How is that possible? I don't get it. The other one that drives me crazy is when someone's riding a bicycle and they have a huge speaker on the back. Mm-Hmm. And they're like bumping the loudest music while they ride around. Like, bro, just get AirPods. Why do you think that you're doing us some public service by Yeah.
Playing this terrible music while you fly by. Like, I don't get it. People who listen
[00:05:34] Jordan Harbinger: to a loud volume thing on, I have the theory about this and, and then we'll start. People are like, God, how many times that to hit fast forward. But I have a theory about this. People who listen to do like a full volume FaceTime call, they have low social intelligence.
They lack social awareness. They lack self-awareness. They, or they're entitled, something like that. The people that carry the big speaker, those people, they want attention. Like you ever go to New York and somebody's blasting that crap on the subway? Mm-Hmm. They're like, I hope somebody says something to me so that I can be like, screw you.
I'm not turning it down. Like they're looking for conflict. They want attention. It's a broke bastard equivalent of doing that with your windows down in a car. Except these losers don't have cars. Hmm. So they're like, I'm gonna be on a bike and blast this super loud music. People do it at ski hills too.
They'll like take a Bluetooth speaker and they're blasting their stuff on the lift. Lefties who are good will be like, turn that off. That's not allowed. And it's like, thank you. I don't wanna hear your music selection wear AirPods. But they, they're like, yeah, man. People love it. When I come by, it's like, I'm a dj.
It's like, no, you're just annoying. You're just annoying. You want the attention. You're not smart enough to understand negative attention versus positive attention. Like you just, your social intelligence is not at that level.
[00:06:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: I understand. Wanting to create a vibe for yourself. Yes. I do not understand inflicting that vibe on everyone else.
You come in contact with.
[00:06:51] Jordan Harbinger: The term social blindness probably exists for something else, but this is like, it's a black hole. This is a gap in someone's social intelligence and awareness. It's a more extreme version of someone who opens the door and then just lets it close behind them and then it hits somebody else in the face.
They don't hold the door. Like those people lack a little bit of awareness. It happens to all of us. Sometimes. This is like, I'm going to deliberately do this thing because I have no concept that other people exist in the world and might not like that. It's an EQ thing where they're just like at the below average level
[00:07:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: of emotional intelligence.
That said, anybody listening to this podcast right now, I hope you are blasting it on speakerphone in public so that everybody can enjoy.
[00:07:28] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I hope you're listening to this at full volume using your JBL Bluetooth speaker on mass transit somewhere. Mm-Hmm. Alright. What's the first thing outta the mail bag?
[00:07:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I am dating a man I've been with for around nine months. We live in a small community in Canada and it's public knowledge that his ex-girlfriend accused him a couple years ago of molesting her son before we started dating. When their child was between the ages of three and five.
She also spread a rumor that he molested his own kids and that's why they live on the other side of the country. Oh man. Okay. According to my boyfriend, the claim regarding his ex-girlfriend's child was investigated and found to be false, but I haven't seen the official documents. He still has a relationship with his own kids, as far as I know, as well as a relationship with her mother.
I see him talking to his kids on the phone or via video chat on occasion. I know that he visited them last year. He claims that his ex-girlfriend was mentally ill and off her medication at the time of the accusations. He's insisted on his innocence with me many times, so from all outward appearances, the allegations that he abused his own kids are not true.
This doesn't really lend much credence to his ex's claim, but I do find the story about his ex-wife running away with the kids. Alarming. To my knowledge, my boyfriend has not been accused of this before or since he worked at a school when these accusations started to fly and he lost his job. He claims he quit.
I believe he's also been turned down for a job he recently applied for. Because of all of this, our small community is divided on the subject. Some people stay loyal to my boyfriend. Some people stay loyal to his accuser and some remain neutral. Sometimes I think there's no way he could have possibly done this.
He can be the most patient, generous, kind, understanding, and supportive person I have ever met. I have some issues in the relationship, like his constant people pleasing apathy towards his physical and mental health, inability to take responsibility for his own actions and a few white lies. I've seen him tell, but we all have our flaws, and these issues seem manageable, but then sometimes I think that he could have done this.
Sometimes I swear I've seen him checking out young boys, but I cannot be sure it might be confirmation bias. This whole situation makes me feel like I'm going insane. I feel nauseous lately, and I feel like I can't trust myself or my reality. I've even lost a few friendships over this. I love this person, but I don't feel in love with him because of this dark cloud hanging over us.
Recently, my boyfriend asked me to move to another town with him because of a job opportunity there. Now I don't know what to do. Is there any way for me to find out the results of that investigation? Is there any way for me to find out if there have been prior accusations against him? Should I just call it quits because it's causing me so much grief?
How can I ever know the truth? Do I really want to tie my life to this person? What am I to do? Signed afraid of, made a mistake and stuck with feelings I can't shake when there is so much at stake.
[00:10:24] Jordan Harbinger: Huh? Wow. Yeah. What? What a conundrum. This is a really tough one because you can't just dismiss these claims outta hand for obvious reasons.
If this is true, it's extremely concerning and dangerous, but then you don't have solid evidence that the claims are true. The claims don't fit with other facts and qualities that you see in your boyfriend, and we all know, in fact, we've heard this on the show in just the last few months, that people can easily fabricate awful claims against their exes, to retaliate against them, to damage their reputations.
So you're in a really, really tough spot. You're having to choose between two narratives here, and you don't have all the information you need to make sure you're making the right decision. So if I were in your shoes, my strategy would be to gather as much information as possible. The problem is with the investigation they did into your boyfriend, the one that didn't find any abuse.
I'm just not sure that if that was a child welfare agency thing or a law enforcement thing. But either way I, I think you're gonna have a hard time getting your hands on those documents. Generally speaking, from what we've learned about these investigations, the agencies, they can't share much, especially with kind of random third parties who are not part of the investigation.
I'm not sure how it works in Canada. You can always call the agency and question and ask, but I'm guessing it's gonna be the same. What you can do, and what I would 100% encourage you to do as a starting point is just do a basic background check on your boyfriend. There are tons of these services online.
Most of them are for employers that they're not expensive, probably like 30 bucks a month or something like that. They might even give you a free trial. I don't know. These services will look someone up, generate a report that includes past employment, credit reports, driving records, identity verification, all that, and most importantly, criminal history.
Now, this background report on your boyfriend, it might come back totally normal. That obviously doesn't guarantee that he didn't do what his ex says he did. And it wouldn't reflect other allegations of abuse that didn't lead to formal charges. But if your boyfriend did have any criminal history you don't know about, it would almost certainly show up and that would be very valuable information for you right now.
Other things you can do to fill in some gaps here. Talk to his ex-girlfriend, talk to his ex-wife. Obviously you have to be very delicate about this because A, it might freak them out and B, your boyfriend might not appreciate you going behind his back and being in contact with them about this. But you know, I also wonder is there a world where you say to your boyfriend.
Listen, I'm really struggling with these accusations. I don't wanna believe them. I don't see you as a person who's capable of this, but as I'm sure you can understand, it's really hard to dismiss them entirely. And I just don't have enough information to decide what to do about all this, and I wanna feel secure in my position on all this.
So how would you feel about me talking to your ex-wife, his co-parent? I mean. And asking her about her experience with you, with the kids, would you be open to that? Look, maybe I'm being naive. Maybe he'd find that intrusive or insulting somehow.
[00:13:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. But if he did, I'm not sure. That would really be fair.
[00:13:09] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, me neither. 'cause this guy, he needs to understand how tough this is for our friend
[00:13:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: here. Right. And if he truly has nothing to hide, then he shouldn't be concerned about her talking to his ex. Right?
[00:13:18] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Also, they've been together what, nine months? Nine months. That's a long time. Mm-hmm. So I don't think it's totally crazy for a girlfriend of nine months to be in touch with your co-parent.
Right. To have some kind of relationship with your kids, even if they do live across the country.
[00:13:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: So actually, I'm starting to think that this request to chat with his ex might actually be a very useful strategy because if he shuts it down or gets super cagey and defensive, it kind of begs the question like, what are you hiding?
[00:13:42] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Sunlight's the best disinfectant. Yeah. And look, he could be like, she's crazy. She makes up lies about me. But it's like, okay, that's more data for you, you know? Mm-Hmm. If I were this guy and there were false allegations swirling around about me, I'd be like, talk to my ex-wife, talk to my kids. See for yourself how questionable my ex-girlfriend is.
I wouldn't be like, how dare you want to ask my ex about what I might or might not have done. I, this is unconscionable. It's like I want you to talk to everybody who's not insane so that you know that my ex-girlfriend is the one who's nuts.
[00:14:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: And if you do talk to his ex with or without his permission, at some point I would try to ask her why they moved across the country, because that is one very curious data point in all of this.
[00:14:19] Jordan Harbinger: That is a little suss. But again, people move away for all kinds of reasons. Sure, she might have gotten a really good job there. Maybe her family lives there. Her relationship with this guy was problematic for other reasons, and she just wanted a fresh start. But if you ask her and she clints up and gets uncomfortable, man, that'd be really good information for you too.
So I do hope you can chat with her at some point. Other things you can do, keep talking to people in your town. Ask 'em what they know, how they know it, why they feel so secure. Taking your boyfriend's side or distancing themselves from your boyfriend, make it safe for them to be totally honest with you.
Tell them your conversation is confidential and that they'd be doing you a huge favor by being totally honest with you. See what you can learn and keep observing your boyfriend. His words is behavior. I know this is kind of stressful, right? It's like read into everything he does. But if he does anything that feels dodgy or evasive, or tense, just don't ignore those signs.
Dig into them with him. Be respectful, but be direct. Hold his feet to the fire a little bit. If you're not getting the answers that satisfy you, even if you never learn the capital T truth, that's important data too, because that evasiveness, it might be all you need to know,
[00:15:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: or it might be another quality of your boyfriend's that makes it hard to get the information that you need.
That frankly, I think he owes you given the circumstances, and that might be an obstacle to this relationship in and of itself. The other party I think you need to observe closely is his children. And I know that might be hard because you don't have a direct relationship with them, but you did say you see him talking to 'em on FaceTime.
Maybe you talk to them sometimes. I'm curious to know how they behave around him, how they carry themselves if they seem to be exhibiting any signs of trauma, discomfort. Now, obviously this is an imperfect science. We know this. If a three-year-old doesn't make good eye contact on FaceTime or whatever, that's not a textbook sign of abuse.
You know, if a kid is not like particularly excited to talk to dad who lives across the country who he sees three times a year or something like that, that doesn't automatically mean that he hurt them. But it might be interesting in context if you see any of those signs and if you ever have the chance to observe how they interact in person, I think that would be even better.
[00:16:21] Jordan Harbinger: The other interesting detail was that she can swear she sometimes sees them checking out young boys. Yeah. But then she's not sure if she just is maybe being hypersensitive to it and connecting dots that aren't there. That's weird.
[00:16:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Again, hard to know what that means, right? Yeah. If these allegations didn't exist, she might not even notice him doing that.
Or if she did, she might just be like, oh look, he's just noticing children out in the world. That's sweet. She's going out of her mind right now, and she might be looking for any data that would help her decide how to feel.
[00:16:46] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, look, this guy, I'm hoping that this doesn't co come across as me making an excuse for a random dude who might be a peto, but like, look, this guy might be missing his kids a bunch, and when he sees other children, it reminds him of his kids.
Mm-Hmm. And that's what's happening when I'm traveling and I'm missing my kids. I find my eyes drawn to random families. Not the kids only, but the parents too. Mm-Hmm. Wishing I was at home playing with my kids. Instead, I'm, I'm sitting in a Delta terminal without them and I'm like, oh, right. When they're that age, I can bring them on trips like this and then we can go to Legoland too, like this family clearly did.
[00:17:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: And I can teach them all about the Quiet cabin policy.
[00:17:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. I can teach them about the Quiet cabin policy on, on Peru, you know, Copa Airlines. So it might be unfair to draw too many conclusions from this, but if he's like, I don't know, openly staring at young boys for solid minutes at a time while licking his lips or whatever, that's a different thing.
That's
[00:17:34] Crosstalk: totally different.
[00:17:35] Jordan Harbinger: That, that is weird. If he's hanging out at the kitty pool and it's like, sir, you here with your son? Nah, I'm just relaxing. Right. That's something to pay attention to. There are signs in San Francisco where it says that you'll go to a playground or something and it's like all adults must be accompanied by a child under the age of like t like whatever.
And it's like, oh, awkward. And you have to read that sign to 'cause you're like. Oh, it must mean, they must mean all children must be accompanied by an adult. It's like, no, all adults must be accompanied by a child. Oh. And it's like, oh, it's that kind of sign. Wow. Like, yikes.
[00:18:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: And you know, they put that sign up for a reason too.
[00:18:08] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Because there's dudes fricking just sitting on a bench, like with a camera out Which one's yours? Oh no, I'm just making some entertainment for myself. Like later. It's like, ugh.
[00:18:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right next to the sign that says, please do not feed the children. Yeah.
[00:18:21] Jordan Harbinger: It's so gross. Yeah. Like it's just,
[00:18:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: ugh. Again, she's going to have to observe her boyfriend closely, and she's gonna have to look at the totality of these data points, not just one or two here or there to see how they fit together.
Speaking of how well she observes him, I do think we need to talk about some of the other issues that she sees in their relationship. Look, his constant people pleasing, his not taking very good care of his body, his mind, those are challenges, but in the context of possible child abuse, probably not fatal ones.
But then she said that he has an inability to take responsibility for his own actions, and she's noticed him telling some white lies. Now, we don't know how serious those are. I mean, she's saying they're white lies, so I assume they're not very serious. But those two qualities, a lack of accountability and a willingness to deceive.
Those do seem extremely relevant in context. To your point, Jordan, if this guy did nothing wrong, he should want to be an open book. And if he's dodging ownership for things that he did wrong, if he's telling little lies here and there, that might be a larger way of operating for him and he might be doing the same when it comes to something more serious like how he treated his children.
[00:19:25] Jordan Harbinger: Good point. And to be fair to this guy who let's remember, has not been charged with anything, he's also quote the most patient, generous, kind, understanding, and supportive persons she's ever met. Right?
[00:19:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Confusing.
[00:19:37] Jordan Harbinger: But can a child molester present as kind, understanding, and supportive? Yeah, they can,
[00:19:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: of course.
[00:19:41] Jordan Harbinger: But to your point, Gabe, she needs to look at the totality of the facts here. And while listening to your intuition is an imperfect science, it's not actually a science at all. It's not irrelevant. Taking stock of how he treats her and noticing how she feels with them on a gut level. That's meaningful data too.
Not the only data, but it's important data. So I'm not sure we can tell you whether to call it quits yet. I don't think you have enough information to really make that call yet. But if you learn more concerning facts or if you fail to get the facts you want, facts I feel you deserve, as the partner of somebody who's been accused of this stuff, then I would continue to ask yourself if this is a truly safe, responsible, sustainable relationship.
Unfortunately, there might be a world where you will never know the truth, but you can do everything in your power to learn the truth as best you can before you make the call. So don't settle for the facts available to you. Don't buy into easy narratives on either side. Do your homework. Be a little nosy if you have to.
I think you're allowed to be within reason. Talk to your boyfriend about all this, even if it's uncomfortable, ask him to help you get the information you need to feel comfortable staying in this relationship.
[00:20:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: And most importantly, keep checking in with yourself how you are feeling with him, because whether your boyfriend did these things or not, how you feel when you're around him is extremely relevant here, and it might tell you all you need to know about this relationship, even if you never get to the bottom of these claims
[00:21:00] Jordan Harbinger: agreed.
If you do that, then you'll know if you really want to tie your life to this guy and good luck. You know what else is gonna make you lick your chops, Gabriel, while sitting on a park bench near a playground. The deals on the products and services that support this show, we'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Brooks.
So my friends at Brooks just sent me a new pair of their glycerin Max. I've gotta say these shoes are something else. They're the first of their kind for Brooks, and they're all about making your run feel as smooth and effortless as possible. What stands out is the DNA Tuned Cushioning. This is next gen nitrogen infused foam that's tuned specifically for different parts of your foot.
So the heel has larger cells for those super soft landings. The forefoot has smaller cells to give you that responsive push off. It's like your foot just rolls through each step. And speaking of rolling the Glide Roll rocker they've built into the shoe makes transitioning from heel to toe feel almost effortless.
It's all designed to keep your legs feeling fresh, even after long runs. Honestly, with how soft and responsive these shoes are, you feel like you could just keep on going forever. I've been a fan of Brooks Shoes for a long time. I first got introduced to the brand at a great local running shoe store where they analyzed my gate and recommended Brooks to me based on a lot of things that sat out was gonna have a bad back, bad knees, bad ankles if I didn't start wearing shoes like Brooks.
So if you're looking to elevate your running game, the glycerin Max is definitely we're checking out. Head over to Brooks running.com to learn more or grab your pair. Now, this episode is also sponsored by Better Help. You know, the other day I was thinking about how often we feel like we're not being our true selves.
Maybe it's at work, maybe with family, even just out with friends. We put on a little bit of a mask, right? And I'm not talking about the Halloween kind. We hide certain parts of ourselves trying to be who we think we should be instead of who we really are. And I've been there. I'm sure you felt that too.
It's a lot of pressure. It's not not a good feeling. That's where therapy comes in. It really helps you peel back those layers, accept all parts of yourself, take off that emotional mask. If you've ever thought about starting therapy, better Help is worth a try. It's all online, super convenient and flexible.
You can make it fit around your schedule. You just fill out a quick questionnaire, they'll match you with a licensed therapist. Jen and I both use better help. It's been so great that Jen's even requested to do more than one session a week, which turns out to be a great deal actually. And Pro Tip, do not hesitate to switch.
Therapists to the first one. Doesn't feel like the right fit. I've switched multiple times before finding somebody that I connected with. Better Help makes the process really easy. It's just a few clicks, so seriously, if you're thinking about it, give better help or regain for couples therapy a try. You will not regret it.
[00:23:13] Jen Harbinger: Take off the Mask. With Better Help. Visit better help.com/jordan today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. hlp.com/jordan.
[00:23:22] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening to and supporting this podcast, your support of our advertisers. Just keep the lights on around here to learn more and get, and it keeps our, keeps our van filled with candy.
[00:23:32] Crosstalk: Oh, why? To,
[00:23:34] Jordan Harbinger: to learn more. All the, I don't know where I'm going now. All the deals, discount codes, and waste to support this show are available at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Guilty.
[00:23:43] Crosstalk: Oh. Please consider supporting
[00:23:46] Jordan Harbinger: those who support the show. Now back to feedback Friday. Okay. What's next?
[00:23:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, my partner of seven years, and I recently moved into our own home, which we are absolutely over the moon about.
We saved up so hard to buy our dream home and we couldn't be happier.
[00:24:06] Jordan Harbinger: Amazing. Congratulations. That's kind of a big deal.
[00:24:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Unfortunately, my father recently split from his partner and is now looking for a place to live. On top of that, he also just lost his mother in the last week, so he's at his lowest point.
Oh, that sucks.
[00:24:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Poor guy.
[00:24:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's currently staying with my sister, his stepdaughter, while looking for a place to live, but her mental health is not a hundred percent, and my dad is getting to the end of his rope. It's getting cold there and she won't put the heating on because she's nearly broke. But my dad has continued to send her money.
Obviously grateful that she's letting him stay with her. Then recently he asked me if he could quote unquote, move into your spare room if shit hit the fan. While I was showing him potential houses I was considering, he would say things like, this would make a nice man cave for me, or this could be my part of the house.
Stuff like that. I made it clear to him from the start that my partner and I wanted the house to be our own as. It's our first house and we wanna make it a home, and that if my dad's relationship was getting rough, he should save up some money for when he needs to leave. I'm unsure of my dad's finances, but I know he'd struggle living in a one bedroom flat as flat prices near his work are astronomical.
My partner has also said that she'd feel uncomfortable with him staying with us, but my dad has done so much for me and my brother. When he split up with our mom many years ago, he fought so hard to get custody of us and worked endless hours to save up for us to do things like go to America to see the Mars Rover launch from Florida and so much more that I can't fit into this email.
I know how hurt he is right now, and our relationship is unbreakable. He also suffers from small amount of anxiety and depression, and I'm always worried about his mental health. How do I tell my dad that he wouldn't be able to stay at ours in the nicest way possible? Should I give him money to stay in a hotel for a while or should I put my foot down and possibly ruin my relationship with my dad?
Signed, share my pad with my struggling dad, or hold to the plan and risk making him
[00:26:07] Jordan Harbinger: mad. Oh man, this is another really tough one. Your dad's really going through it. You know, he needs support. He deserves some support given the kind of dad he was. But you're also starting your life with your partner and it's not entirely fair for him to hamstring your plans to whatever, take over your house, kind of.
So candidly, I'm not sure there's one right answer here. The facts are a little complicated, and I think it kind of comes down to what you and your partner and your dad are willing to do. I don't think it would be unfair for you to say, Hey, I am so sorry, dad, but we're starting our new lives together. We told you from the beginning that we wanted this to be our home.
We don't feel it's super healthy or appropriate for you to live with us full time, but I'm happy to help you come up with some solutions. And those solutions might include financial support, like paying for a hotel for him for a little while, or given him some extra money each month. It could be helping him look for apartments in a part of the city that's cheaper, or researching affordable housing options or finding a roommate for God's sake, or working with your stepsister on supporting him, although it sounds like she might not be able to help all that much, or encouraging your dad to reach out to other friends and family who might be able to support him right now.
That said, I do think you and your wife need to take a beat and really talk about what your dad deserves, how to best be there for him, what you guys can reasonably offer him without going too crazy. Because there might be a middle ground here that's fair to him given that he's your dad, apparently a pretty great dad, and that he's really going through a painful time and that's sustainable to you.
And I'll let you guys decide what that looks like. Of course, what parameters you'll need to feel comfortable, but maybe you get to a point where you tell your dad, Hey, look, is, I'm sure you can understand, we want this home to be our own. We wanna have our space and our privacy, but we know how hard things have been for you lately.
So how about you stay here for two months, three months, six months, whatever it is, get back on your feet, save some money, go through this morning process for grandma, and in the meantime, we'd like you to actively look for a new apartment. And we wanna be clear that this arrangement is temporary. We love you, we're gonna help you get through this period, but this cannot turn into you living with us forever.
And that's for both our benefits and the the benefit of our relationship that which is now good currently. And it is totally fair to offer your love and support with very clear boundaries. That's totally legit.
[00:28:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: I completely agree. That might be what makes this doable for you guys and actually more meaningful for your dad, for him to see that his son and his daughter-in-Law are doing him a huge kindness, but that it does come with some sacrifices that he needs to be thoughtful about.
And on that note, I do think we have to talk about how your dad is asking for this help and how he's engaging with your help. Look, your dad sounds like a wonderful guy. He fought hard to get custody of you when you needed it. He worked his ass off to support you guys. He took you on these awesome trips to another country, the Mars Rover launch, which is so sweet.
[00:28:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That detail really got me as a dad. I just know how much these experiences mean to a parent and a child. Like how do you tell that dad stay in this crappy motel where drug dealers and whatever, right. People operate when you have a spare room right after his mom dies.
[00:29:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's really hard. Yeah. What a sweet guy, like our friend said, their relationship is unbreakable, and it's also true that his dad might not be taking care of himself in all the ways that he needs to.
[00:29:16] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's fair.
[00:29:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: His mental health is not perfect. I'm not sure what he's doing to address that, if anything. It sounds like he doesn't really listen to his son when he said, dad, I'm just telling you right now, this is gonna be our house. So if things are getting rough between you and your partner, you need to start saving some money now because you can't put that on us.
[00:29:33] Jordan Harbinger: Right? And then when they were touring houses, he's like, Ooh, nice garage. That would make for a mighty fun man cave for your old man. Like, okay, way to crowbar your way into your son's new life, homie.
[00:29:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's kind of sweet in a certain way, and it's also kind of presumptuous
[00:29:47] Jordan Harbinger: in a way. Yeah, it's presumptuous, but it's also a little manipulative, a little bit in my opinion.
He didn't say like, oh, I would love that. It's more like he's throwing it out there like, Hey, just hint, hint. I could totally live in a garage like that. You know what I mean? As long as I had access to the kin shit in the pantry.
[00:30:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: And that's my point. He's saying, can I move into your spare room if shit hits the fan?
But he's not going, okay, how do I take care of myself in a way that shit won't hit the fan?
[00:30:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He's kind of like saying, Hey, shit's gonna hit the fan soon and I'm gonna move in with you. Right, right. Uh, I like that house with the big garage. 'cause I can put my flat screen in there like, no dad, he's also not saying, or if shit does hit the fan, it won't be as bad and I'll be as easy to help as possible.
He's just kind of like, my plan is to move in with you.
[00:30:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. So from what we're hearing, he's just kind of sitting back, letting things play out, and hoping that his family will save him, which look. That might be informed by the anxiety and the depression, and I have compassion for that. But that does not let him off the hook for being a responsible person and a thoughtful parent, even as he goes through an objectively tough time.
And I think that's part of the reason that our friend here is going, how do I tell my dad no? Do I possibly ruin my relationship with my dad? Because there is not an obvious fair middle way here. He and his partner are gonna have to create that middle way. Because dad probably isn't very good at doing that, but they can gently set the terms of their help and then he can decide whether he wants to accept those terms, which given the circumstances, I think he probably will, and that will give him the gift of not only appreciating their support, but also stepping up and being more proactive in capitalizing on that support.
[00:31:15] Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. I totally agree here. And part of that would be connecting your dad with people in places that could really help him right now, for example, I think it'd be great if he went to a grief support group right now. Maybe you guys could even go together. That might be a really powerful place for him to mourn his mom and find some much needed community right now.
I also think it's worth encouraging your dad to see a therapist and or a psychiatrist. I know money is tight right now. It might not be immediately possible, but actually at the end of this episode, I'm gonna share a great opportunity with you guys therapy wise, so stay tuned for that. But yeah, if your dad could benefit from medication, which totally up to him, and maybe it's just a temporary thing to get through this period, you could schedule an appointment for him, you could see the doctor with him.
That's another way to help. The point is there are lots of ways to support a struggling parent, and the best ones, in my opinion, are the ones that help them ultimately support themselves. Your dad is really lucky to have you and your stepsister looking out for him. I know you're not gonna let him end up on the street, but don't be afraid to empower him to be the partner you need in taking care of him while he goes through this tough period.
And don't be afraid to also protect you and your partner's needs at the same time. I really do think there's a way to do both. Sending you and your dad a big hug and wishing you all the best you can. Reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise, use descriptive subject lines. That does make our job a whole lot easier.
If you're finding dead squirrels in the mailbox, your stepdad's got your nude photos. Your neighbors are eaves dropping on your therapy sessions through the wall. Or your agro father-in-Law is sending you on a work trip to a literal war zone. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com.
We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, by the way, if you haven't signed up yet, check out our newsletter Wee bit wiser. It is a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered right to your inbox once a week. If you wanna keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come and check it out.
Jordan harbinger.com/news is where you can find it. It is a great companion to the show. Okay, what's next?
[00:33:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. Sometime back on episode nine 10, you took a letter from a young guy who had been recruited into a quote unquote mentorship circle. That was almost certainly a funnel for a shady, multi-level marketing scam.
Something about it struck a chord with me and I wanted to share my own experience with one because I believe my perspective might offer another angle for your listeners.
[00:33:31] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, grabbing my popcorn. Putting on my smug. All MLMs are trash hoodie on.
[00:33:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, so you won't wear the Kebo hat, but you will wear all MLMs are trash hoodie.
[00:33:40] Jordan Harbinger: I would love a hat that said all MLMs are trash and like rainbow sparkles or whatever. Just, okay. That's a Hollywood fve
[00:33:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: adding to my Christmas gift inspo list. Okay. Right now, how much do you think that custom, okay, well, we'll deal with that later. Can't be that much. So he goes on a few years back, as I was nearing the completion of my master's degree and seeking job opportunities, a friend of mine, let's call him Tim, posted something intriguing on social media about attending a networking seminar.
Being in my early twenties and naturally curious, I reached out to learn more. Tim's response was somewhat vague, but he hinted at exciting opportunities. Mentioned meeting a millionaire and said he'd be happy to introduce me to him.
[00:34:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yep. This is how it starts.
[00:34:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: We decided to meet at a McDonald's.
[00:34:22] Jordan Harbinger: Ah yes.
McDonald's. Where all millionaires take their business meetings.
[00:34:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know the networking's gonna slap when it takes place over a filet O fish. Exactly.
[00:34:32] Jordan Harbinger: Can I supersize this total horse shit pitch you're about to spew in my direction. Thanks.
[00:34:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: We decided to meet at a McDonald's where I found Tim and his mentor, who appeared to be in his late forties or early fifties, already engaged in a discussion with someone else around my age.
I joined them and they began with a series of carefully crafted questions that hinted at the potential of making money through their system. They emphasize the idea of earning commissions on online purchases and having ample time outside of an eight hour workday to focus on wealth accumulation.
Despite my questions, they remained rather vague about the specifics emphasizing the potential for a financial gain. In our subsequent meeting, they handed me a copy of Rich Dad. Poor Dad asked me to read a few pages and probed my thoughts to see if I agreed with its concepts. It became evident that they were filtering out dissenters seeking individuals who aligned closely with their ideology
[00:35:23] Jordan Harbinger: a hundred percent.
They also love these vague, aspirational books about making a ton of money. But yeah, this is a great point. It's also a way to see if someone's clever enough or old enough to see through, I guess, old enough, experienced enough in life to see through how overly simplistic and silly this material is fascinating 'cause Rich Dad poured it.
It, a lot of this was sort of mindset stuff when you're not a, a dumbass, sorry. You go. Yeah. There's a lot more to it than that. They, they want people who are like, oh my gosh, all I have to do is believe in myself. Mm. Also, the guy who wrote that book last I read, he's literally over a billion dollars in debt and he's failed to predict the market just countless times.
I mean, good on him for writing a bestselling book, but they, he's not a, any sort of guru. He is a personality who is a total clown to people that know things about money and business.
[00:36:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: They then invited me to one of their networking events slash seminars. This was at a Marriott, and I was asked to wear a suit, so I was impressed.
[00:36:17] Jordan Harbinger: So that worked on you, right? Wear a suit. Oh, it must be a big deal. That is one of those things where it's like, wear a suit. Why it's in a Marriott. I don't need to wear
[00:36:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: a suit. Oh, I didn't even, I didn't even connect those dots. Like there's something psychological about having to put on the clothes. Yes, a hundred
[00:36:31] Jordan Harbinger: percent.
Oh, it's a black tie event. No, it's not. You just want me to give you gravitas. This is a flip flop event. You're selling me something.
[00:36:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: So I was impressed to say the least, and keenly interested. A couple got on the stage and talked about how they made quite a bit of money through this process. I was introduced to a physician who had been a part of this thing for a while, and he mentioned that as a physician, he can't leave his practice to his kids, but he can develop a business to leave to them.
The word Amway had not yet been mentioned in any of my meetings, but then at some point they finally brought up Amway and explained how it operates. They were like, just think about it. You don't need your own product because they already offer a wide range that people are interested in. In other words, I wouldn't have to create anything from scratch.
I'd earn a commission for every person I recruit and for every person they recruit and so on. Tim emphasized that they wouldn't just throw me in the deep end. They'd be there to support me and train me every step of the way, which I appreciated. I didn't know anything about pyramid schemes, so this was all new to me.
I remember Tim's mentor saying, I know you wanna learn more about the company, but this is how we approach getting people to join us. That's when I started seeing red flags. Why was information being revealed in such a structured manner? It felt like they had meticulously crafted this experience to reveal information very slowly.
Yes. Only on a need to know basis.
[00:37:50] Jordan Harbinger: That's exactly what they did. They meticulously crafted the experience to reveal information very slowly. A hundred percent.
[00:37:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: It seemed like they'd done this countless times, and I suspect it's their way of not disclosing their true intentions unless they're absolutely sure someone is about to join.
Very culty.
[00:38:05] Jordan Harbinger: This is 100% accurate. This is their strategy to a T. There's a really interesting episode of the Freakonomics podcast where they talk about this, how when scammers come up with their funnels and their pitches, they wanna make sure that only the dumbest, most gullible people get to the point where they're actually talking with a real person from the scam organization.
It's like those scam emails, the ones we read last week, for example, where you go, who in the world is clicking on this stuff? That is part of the strategy. These scammers, they don't wanna waste a bunch of time on people who are too smart to fall for this stuff. They wanna get the people who just can't see through it to save their lives.
Recommending Rich Dad, poor Dad. That's part of the strategy because based on what I've read online, I've read this book. Okay. And I've found, I've read it and I remember thinking, this is really dumb. And I found a bunch of stories just like that. A hundred pages of vague, aspirational stories and nonsense and terrible financial advice.
There's a section with actual recommendations, and one of the recommendations is to invest in multi-level marketing scale organizations. Really, the book was written for that purpose.
[00:39:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I did not know that. Yeah. I've never read this book. I So in the book, he literally proposes getting involved in an MLM.
[00:39:11] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, and it's, and and like other people have said things like, Donald Trump recommended network marketing, and I'm like, yeah, he was paid to recommend network marketing. It's not like business advice based on his experience, they pay people to do this.
[00:39:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: So, interesting. Yeah. So if somebody makes it that far into the book without realizing that it's garbage, or if they finish the book and they go, oh wow, MLMs, that must be the move, right?
[00:39:35] Jordan Harbinger: Then Amway or whatever scam organization has immediately filtered out all the wrong targets and filtered in the perfect victims. Bingo. Right? Those emails like the, I'm a Nigerian prince and it's got a bunch of spelling errors. If you're dumb enough to fall for that, you are exactly the type of person that they wanna talk to in person because you are dumb enough to go through the rest of the rigmarole without seeing all of the obvious flags that everybody else sees.
[00:39:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or to be fair, ignorant enough because some people just are not educated about how some of these scams work. Yeah, of course. It's so creepy. So he goes on. So I researched Amway, learned about it, and noticed the online reviews were quite limited. Another red flag. The few reviews I did find were not always positive.
Some were quite critical. By this point, Tim and his mentor knew that I would have questions about MLMs, so in our next meeting, they addressed them. They insisted this wasn't a pyramid scheme because you could potentially earn more money than the person who recruited you.
[00:40:28] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that has nothing to do with it, but, okay.
[00:40:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: They even showed me some math from their handout, but it was also overwhelming and fast paced. I couldn't quite grasp it by design. Tim's mentor then introduced me to his mentor who had made millions through the process and was treated almost like a deity. Yeah. There was this whole vibe of extreme respect for your mentor and a clear hierarchy.
They made it clear that their time was precious, and I should be grateful for even a few seconds of their attention.
[00:40:56] Jordan Harbinger: LOL
[00:40:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: once another mentor gave me a ride back from an event and said, you should have a reason to let Tim's mentor know why you would be interested in joining them. I naively replied, yes.
I'm thinking about, it seems like I might join a little later as well. He said, this isn't an offer for a lifetime. That was when I saw their rough side for the first time,
[00:41:14] Jordan Harbinger: like we talked about last week, building urgency, manufacturing, scarcity. It's just, it's all just clear nonsense. And also like I'm very important.
Really? Why are you chauffeuring my broke ass around then pal, you're so important.
[00:41:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: In the end, I didn't pursue it. Something about the weird secrecy didn't sit well with me. Yeah. And it just didn't feel right. Excellent. Yes. Good on you, man. Way to listen to your gut and pay attention to the signs. It's hard for a lot of people to do.
However, a couple of months later, Tim followed up asking if I was still interested and I said I'd be happy to talk.
[00:41:47] Jordan Harbinger: Oh really? So it wasn't an offer that expired anytime soon and that was total bullshit. Okay. Got it. Thanks Tim.
[00:41:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Cool. Urgency, bro. Yeah, he goes on Tim, his mentor and I got on a call and Tim's mentor asked me what has changed since last time.
I didn't know what to say. Nothing had changed. I just agreed to chat again because Tim suggested it. I probably stumbled over my words, but I didn't pretend to be overly interested. I could sense in his voice that he was upset that I wasn't pandering to him. He said, I have spoken to many, many people.
While I wasn't sure what he was trying to imply, I gathered that he meant he's quite adept at reading people. Their organizations seemed highly sophisticated, luring people in then setting up the bait once again, I decided not to proceed, and I'm glad I trusted my gut on it. As I reflected on my experience, I realized several things I.
These organizations seem to target individuals in their twenties and early thirties with limited experience who are probably susceptible.
[00:42:44] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, absolutely.
[00:42:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: They create a community or family-like atmosphere, but become upset if you choose to leave. It feels, again, uncomfortably cult-like,
[00:42:54] Jordan Harbinger: yes, a, this is a textbook business cult.
We're your family unless you decide that you don't like us anymore, in which case we're gonna cut you off from all of the rest of the family because that's how we roll.
[00:43:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: The mention of Amway only comes at the very end of their pitch, leaving those who don't proceed unaware of what they're really involved in.
[00:43:09] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, very clever and very gross.
[00:43:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: In the initial meetings, they straightforwardly inquire about your income generating plans. If you have anything going on beyond a typical nine to five. They don't proceed if you don't. They argue in favor of their model, emphasizing the ease of becoming a independent business owner.
Initially, they start off very friendly, offering rides to seminars and conferences, leveraging psychological tactics like reciprocity. They present their MLM products and talk about how great they are, but this excitement seemed very forced. This was commitment and consistency. The more you do it, the more you believe it, and the deeper you get sucked in.
Finally, I believe I was a Guinea pig to teach Tim if I joined, terrific. They made money. If I didn't, it would be a learning experience for Tim. The more he did this, the more he learned about human psychology, gotta hand it to them,
[00:43:59] Jordan Harbinger: which means he was not your friend. Mm-Hmm. You are just a target to him.
Which is sad.
[00:44:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is tragic. Yes. Everyone's so disposable in these systems. It sucks.
[00:44:08] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.
[00:44:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hope this is helpful to anyone who comes into contact with these groups signed, hoping you don't get dispirited or have too much fear amid I. All these ridiculous pyramids.
[00:44:18] Jordan Harbinger: I don't have a ton to add here. This awesome letter really speaks for itself, but man, you know this guy who's writing in, he mentioned their organization is really sophisticated.
I would actually say it's quite unsophisticated. They're counting on you to be even less sophisticated, because that's what they want. They don't want someone who is like, huh, this doesn't really make sense, or, I didn't really understand the math, but oh well, I don't need to. It's like, no, no, no. You should understand the math because when it comes to MLMs, you eventually run out of people on planet Earth before it becomes profitable for anybody in the middle.
That's how the math actually works. It's not a pyramid scheme because you can make more than the person who recruited you. That's not what a peer, let's just change the definition of pyramid scheme. A pyramid scheme is when you have to kick money upwards from what you earn. That's it. That's the definition.
Someone recruited you and you recruit more people under you. That's what a pyramid scheme is. It had nothing to do with the imaginary and totally fake income earning potential that they tell you you have that is meaningless. So paying attention to the red flags, especially the fake friendship, the fake urgency, them trying to get you to do something for them.
The reciprocity stuff. It's just really like a bunch of nonsense layered on top of each other. They're looking for people who are socially isolated, ideally, or at least kind of in desperate straits. And it sucks, man. I talked to Uber drivers. A lot of those guys are like, oh, I'm really into this thing. My friend, like he took me to the grocery store and then he was like, I don't even need these groceries.
And then he gave them all to me and it's like, whoa, wait. That's not a normal thing to do. You don't go grocery shopping, decide you don't need any of the things you bought, and then give it to a person who needs groceries. He took you grocery shopping and paid for your stuff. That is different. Why do you think he did that?
Like, I don't know. And then there was a all kinds of nonsense. Like, oh, he lives in this big house. He's a millionaire. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he, his rent's like $20,000 a month. Wait, you said he owned the house. Now you're saying he rents it. Did he tell you he owned it when he rents it? Uh, yeah. Now I can't remember, you know, I hear this stuff all the time because they don't even care if the story has holes.
They're looking for somebody who doesn't notice or doesn't care about the holes. Mm-Hmm. Right. That's what they want. That is what they are screening for. It's not sophisticated. It's actually quite ham fisted, but it works because you're, you're looking for the lowest common denominator. All you have to do is run the numbers and keep going.
So good for you for paying attention to all those flags and not sweeping them under the rug and with, because of the promise of making some money later down the line, which is what they're counting on.
[00:46:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, I just remembered something that happened to me years ago that I must have blocked until this moment.
I used to do martial arts when I was a kid, and there was a guy at my dojo who came up to me one day. I must have been around 16 or so, maybe 17, and he was like. He was involved in some financial MLM, which is even creepier than this Amway stuff. Like they were selling insurance and asset management services, which just, I can't even imagine giving your money to one of these organizations to manage.
Ugh. But he was apparently very successful in this super weird pyramid scheme. And I knew even back then that there was something off about it. And I heard other people at the school talking about it. So I think I was somewhat prepared. But he came up to me and I guess he was like, you know, he saw something in me and was like, Hey, you know, we do this thing and I think you could be really great at it and I would love to talk to you about it.
And I was like, well, thank you so much. But I already have a job. Actually, I was in high school obviously, but I had at least one job. I usually, I worked at a store, I tutored students. I did a bunch of stuff and I was like, I already have a job. I actually have two jobs. And he said something that I just remember and he goes, I'm not offering you a job.
I'm offering you a career. I had to very delicately tell this older guy who was like, kind of a big deal in the studio, uh, I'm not interested. And it was so uncomfortable and I just, I guess I'm just appreciating how hard it is to stand up to these guys because part of what they're doing is exerting this social pressure.
It is so uncomfortable to tell somebody I'm not buying what you're selling, and I actually find it weird. No, thank you.
[00:47:59] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But you know what? That was wildly inappropriate of him to recruit at the martial arts studio. Look, it's been a long time since I've trained anywhere, but one of the things you don't do in your dojo or your, you know, whatever is go like, Hey, I've got my crappy MLM scam and I want you to join it.
Inviting somebody to your birthday party. Cool. Asking somebody to go for a jog or, or lift weights afterwards. Cool. Asking somebody to join your shady business venture. Not cool, man,
[00:48:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: but they'll do it anywhere.
[00:48:28] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. They don't care. That's why we get letters from people who are like, I was at Barnes and Noble and somebody came up to me and asked me.
Exactly. It's like exactly. When you're recruiting from a bookstore, while you're pretending you're fake shopping and avoiding the manager who kicked you out last week for the same thing, you're being an a-hole. That is all you're doing and you're doing it professionally, which is pathetic.
[00:48:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Always be recruiting.
That's their
[00:48:48] Jordan Harbinger: motto. A BR got a nice ring to it. Yeah, we did a deep dive and an article about how not to fall for scams. This is great for somebody who's like in the middle of this or if you know somebody who's in the middle of being recruited for some crap like this. I think that was episode 3 95. But again, there's also an article about it if you can't get them to listen to an actual podcast, deep dive on it.
We're also gonna link to a ton of feedback Friday questions and answers about scams, where we talk about all of this in a lot more detail. So if you know somebody who needs to hear that, those would be the ones to point him to. You know, who else will leverage social pressure and psychological tactics to get you to open your wallets?
Yours truly, when he tells you about the amazing sponsors that support this show. But hey, at least I'm not gonna make you read some dumb ass airport literature first. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Transcend. Alright, so I love this company. This is like a life hack, biohacker, whatever.
That's, I'm not one of those guys. But this has had a huge, huge impact on my physical health. I've hired trainers before. You heard me talk about that for years. Transcend has been kind of the next layer on top of that. It has been so great for me. I actually reached out to Transcend to sponsor the show because I wanted to share it.
This is not somebody who is just like, Hey, will you shield this? And I was like, okay. It was the other way around. I want, I'm asking them if I can shill it. So here we are. Transcend is the real deal when it comes to telehealth. So that's like seeing a doctor remotely. They operate in all 50 states. They've got the expertise to back it up.
If you're wondering what the hell telehealth even is like I was essentially, you have top-notch doctors that maybe just don't live in your area available to you without ever leaving home for things like hormone replacement, fertility treatments, whatever. What I really love is that every medication they provide is also made right here in the us.
There's no like mystery pills from overseas situation. I'm obviously pretty picky about what goes into my body, so that was a big deal for me. I worked with Transcend for well over a year before ever mentioning them on the show. I wanted to make sure everything was solid. I didn't, you know, die of a weird ailment from the stuff that I'm putting in my body anyway.
I can't say enough good things. It all starts with a really straightforward health assessment and some blood work. I just had my 10 week blood work done this morning, actually, and from there, a double board certified neurosurgeon. So you can tell they're not screwing around. And a team of regenerative medicine specialists put together a personalized health plan for me.
Their focus is on prevention and longevity, getting ahead of potential issues before they become problems. You have text access to the doctor, you get Zoom access to your doctor. You do blood work on the regular. It's very much supervised stuff. It's not just like, here's a bunch of drugs. Good luck, bro.
Everyone's getting into biohacking and proactive healthcare these days. Transcend is right at this nice intersection between safety and also the forefront of science-backed solutions that actually work. So you probably heard about the rise in treatments like ozempic for weight loss or testosterone levels in men.
Transcend also provides natural innovative options to address these issues without just throwing a bunch of meds at you. 'cause I didn't wanna inject testosterone because once you pop, you can't stop with that stuff. And you know, I just didn't want to have all those side effects. So I tried a bunch of other things to get my body to make testosterone and that stuff actually worked.
So I'm not on testosterone, but my testosterone levels still tripled, which is awesome. And again, I do blood work regularly so that I don't end up with a prostate that says of a grapefruit. And here's the thing, even if you're feeling fine, getting a blood panel done, it can reveal some underlying stuff you might not even know is there.
I found out earlier that my testosterone was on the lower side for a 44-year-old. And I just made a few adjustments, like I said, and the results have been amazing, better workouts, healthier joints, other improvements that I will leave to your imagination. So if you're ready to take your health seriously, you start with an intake form Transcend company.com/jordan.
You'll get 15% off your first order. I have partnered with Transcend for the Long Haul. I'm actually happy to help wherever I can. So if you wanna email me, you've got questions, just shoot me a message, jordan@jordanharbinger.com. This has been as crucial for me as working out with a trainer. So again, if you're on the fence, just shoot me an email.
I'm happy to answer questions where I can refer you to people there and you can find out more@trendssendcompany.com slash Jordan. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our sponsors.
All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Also, if you can't find something you're not sure if a code still works or exist at all, email meJordan@jordanharbinger.com. I will dig up that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show.
Alright, back to feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?
[00:53:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I'm the eldest of four siblings, spread out over 10 years and our father is nearing the end of his life. He'll be leaving behind a moderate amount of money. My parents have been divorced for 25 years, but remain friends. A couple months ago, my mother called me and told me she thought I should tell my dad not to leave me any money because my siblings all need it more than I do.
I was pretty angry about it at the time, but now I wonder if she's right. I'm the only one of his four children who graduated from high school and college. With my partner, we make upwards of $200,000 a year, own a couple of properties, and are helping our children through college. Meanwhile, my siblings have all struggled with money.
Mental illness runs in the family and it comes from my dad's side. One of my siblings is bipolar. While the other two have depression, that's made holding a job difficult for the two youngest and their lack of advanced education has held them back, I. My youngest brother was also diagnosed with a chronic illness about eight years ago.
He's still relatively healthy, but could face significant challenges throughout his life. My dad was not involved in my life when I lived at home, relying on my mom to fill him in on what his kids were doing while he spent all of his hours after work as a special ed teacher hold up in his bedroom reading books.
Our relationship now consists of a few awkward phone calls each year where we mostly talk about the weather. Raising my children with my incredibly loving and involved partner has been amazing, but it's also made me think about what I missed out on. I realized that inheriting money from my dad will do absolutely nothing to fix our lack of relationship all my life, but part of me feels like if I were able to do something nice with the money, it would almost be like my dad did something nice for me.
The amount of money he set to leave each of us would not be life-changing for me, probably less than $50,000 to each of his children, but it could be for my siblings. Do they deserve it more than me? Should I ask my dad to split it among the three of them signed? Hold the line and accept what's mine. Or be an ally and say goodbye to my piece of the pie.
[00:55:12] Jordan Harbinger: Man, another fascinating question, Gabe. I think the theme of today's episode might be highly ambiguous Situations with no Clear right answer.
[00:55:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, strong feedback. Friday vibes today. I think
[00:55:23] Jordan Harbinger: that's true, but I, I don't know. The letters today just seem extra. No right answer. Re So first of all, I'm very sorry to hear that your father is nearing the end of his life.
I imagine this is a very intense transition for all of you. You, your siblings, your mom. The question of this money aside, the death of a parent, even a very flawed parent, it's a major event. It brings up so many feelings, and I hope you're holding up okay through all this. So you're asking a really interesting question.
Do my siblings deserve this money more than me? And I guess my question is, what does deserve mean to you? How are you defining this concept of who deserves what? If it's just based on financial need, then yeah, okay. In a certain way, you could argue that your siblings deserve this money more than you.
They're struggling with finances. You and your partner aren't. They have more profound needs than you do. Well, at least your youngest brother does the one with the chronic illness. I'm not totally clear on how much your other siblings mental health challenges have shaped their outcomes, but that's one way to look at it.
The other way to look at it is you were all your father's children, so you all deserve equal shares of this money, whatever your individual circumstances are. Is that fair in the cosmic sense? Okay. Maybe not. Your siblings inherited some very difficult stuff from your dad. It sounds like maybe you didn't, although you didn't really specify, which is interesting.
Your brother ended up with this chronic illness, which is obviously not his fault. All of that sucks, but is it fair in terms of sharing equally and family resources? Yeah, I think so. And your dad obviously thought so too, if that's what he's doing, is leaving it to all to you equally, and I think you still have to make room for individual responsibility here.
How your siblings have taken care of themselves or not taking care of themselves, how those choices might have played out. And I'm talking primarily about your other siblings here, not your brother with a chronic illness. I'm not saying that everything could have been easy for them if they just worked harder or that they'd have a ton of money if they just went to therapy or whatever.
I'm sure that it's complicated. What I am saying is when it comes to the question of do they deserve this money more because life is harder for them, I think it's fair to ask how their decisions and values have shaped those outcomes that are making you go, huh, maybe I should give up my share, or at least to say there's some part of this that is under their control and I'm just not sure.
I should have to give up my share to make up for their circumstances. Not because they don't deserve your compassion, but because doing so might then be unfair to you. All that said, if you and your partner talk about this and decide, you know what, we make plenty of money. We have properties, we're lucky enough to be able to put our kids through college.
Siblings don't have these things. Let 'em keep the 50 grand. They need it more. That would be a kind thing to do. Sure. I don't think you're a bad person whatsoever though. If you don't do that. Okay. But if you did do it, you'd be doing a nice thing for them and based on what you said, maybe they could use the help.
Although now that I think about it, not to turn this into dollars and cents, but so if you take your share, you get 50 grand, right? If you give up your share, then that 50 grand will be shared between three siblings, right? Which is like 17 grand per person. Not even, which isn't nothing. I'm sure they'd love to have the money, but it's just not life changing.
So it's an interesting question. Does giving up 50 grand for your siblings actually benefit them more than keeping that money for yourself and, I don't know, paying for a year of college tuition or investing the money or saving up for another rental property? I'm just not sure that it does. Maybe that's another way of looking at it.
Not in terms of who deserves it, but in terms of the impact the money's gonna have, given the way that it would be divided. I personally, I'm leaning towards keeping it to be honest, even though that kind of makes me feel like the monopoly man with the little top hat right now. I dunno. Gabe, what do you think?
[00:58:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think you're spot on and I, I'm with you. I'm leaning toward keeping it as well, especially given the math that you just laid out. Yeah. Although, to be fair, $17,000 is still quite a bit of money, and if that pays for a couple years of therapy or it covers somebody's medication, or it could be the start of a nest egg, that could still be enormously useful to these siblings.
[00:59:08] Jordan Harbinger: A fair point is just very different from 50 grand,
[00:59:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: very different obviously, but that's what's so hard about this. What's impactful to our friend here is different from what's impactful to our siblings, and I don't actually know whether that should be the variable that decides all this. What I would also take into account here is what is her relationship with her siblings like?
We didn't get much color on that. She told us how they've struggled. She hasn't told us whether they're kind people, whether they're close, whether they get along well. I think that matters here too
[00:59:35] Jordan Harbinger: for sure. If her siblings are total a-holes or even if they're just kind of neutral, I think that's another reason to keep her share of the inheritance
[00:59:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: probably.
Right? Whereas if her siblings are these really wonderful, kind, generous people, if they've really been there for her in the past and they're struggling now, that's kind of a different story. I also think this comes down to what meaning you make out of this inheritance On one level, yes. It's just money.
On another level, it's a piece of your family's legacy. It's a piece of your father, a father who was not the most present or loving parent, and who might sort of, in a certain way be making up for it with this money. Not that 50 grand even comes close to a dad who takes an interest in you and tucks you in every night, but it's something, and maybe more to the point, what you do with this money, how it makes you feel, and you know what other experiences it makes possible.
That's part of the meaning you get to make out of this inheritance too. By the same token, if you give this inheritance up, what meaning will you make out of that? Will you feel like you sacrificed something that you really shouldn't have? Will you feel like you missed a chance to be connected to your dad in some way?
Will you feel noble on one level, but maybe quietly resent your siblings on another level? Jordan, have you ever read any Philip Roth, the author?
[01:00:43] Jordan Harbinger: I don't think so, maybe, but I doubt it.
[01:00:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: He wrote this book, one of my favorite books ever is called Patrimony, and it's a memoir about the death of his father.
And there's a part of this book where he talks about his father leaving him and his brother some stocks or something that were in some account. And uh, Philip Roth at that point was a really famous author and he probably had a good amount of money. And at first he told his brother, just take that money.
I don't, I don't need it. You enjoy it. Dad gave it to both of us, but I want you to have it. And then later he goes through this whole process where he suddenly gets kind of like protective of this money. I. Not in a greedy kind of way, but in a dad left it to both of us. And now I'm realizing that it was this thread between me and dad and, and this is part of how he lives on in my life, and this is like my share of the family's stuff and I don't want to give it up to my brother.
And he writes beautifully about this anger that he feels this like righteousness, that he feels like, I don't wanna screw my brother, but I don't want to give up this piece of my dad. It's a really interesting thing that he wrestles with in that book, and it totally reminds me of this story. Anyway, all that to say, take a moment and really consider what this inheritance means to you, what you can make it mean to you.
In the end, I have a feeling that that's what's actually gonna matter the most.
[01:01:56] Jordan Harbinger: It's a good point, Gabe. There's dollars and cents, and then there's feelings and meanings. And because this money is tied to a parent, a complicated parent. Well, a set of complicated siblings as well. Those feelings and meanings are probably very rich, if you'll pardon the pun.
[01:02:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, actually, you make a good point. We have to talk about the fact that it was her mom who suggested she give up the money. Right?
[01:02:16] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I thought that was interesting.
[01:02:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't exactly know what to make out of that. I, I guess we would need to know more, but it does make me wonder whether mom has always kind of prioritized the siblings over our friend here, or always expected her to give things up to give them a leg up.
[01:02:29] Jordan Harbinger: Good reminder. That occurred to me too, like you're the successful one. You're the high functioning one. They deserve more help. Has this been a lifelong. Pattern.
[01:02:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, she said she was quite angry when her mom brought this up at first, which tells me that this is probably an old pattern in their family.
And is that why our friend here is so quick to go? Hmm. Well, hmm. Maybe they do deserve it more.
[01:02:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And just play that out for the rest of your life. If you agree to this inheritance thing, I can see a world where your mom comes to you every few years, like, you should lend Sharon money for therapy. Mm.
You should let Darren stay in your rental property for free. Billy got fired from his job because he was too depressed to meet his deadlines. Can you lend him $10,000 for a security deposit? 'cause he lost his place. Right. I know that I'm speculating, maybe I'm being a little harsh, but again, the casualness with which this was delivered, at least in the letter, I just doubt it was the first time their mom has done stuff like this.
Mm-Hmm. And you know, the more we talk about this, the more I find it weird and inappropriate for mom who's divorced from dad. So it's not her money to be telling one of her children to give up their inheritance. It's not her freaking business. It's not her money. And our friend here is well within her right to say, oh, I hear you, mom, but Dad left us all this money, and I'd like to take my share.
Thanks for your input, and if you do well, I would be prepared for your mom to potentially react in a very intense way to you standing up for yourself and actually setting a boundary here, especially if you're doing that for the first time in your life. And if she does react that way, that doesn't make you a monster.
Quite the opposite. So take some time to sit with all this, talk to your partner about it, really explore all the angles, the practical ones, and these more philosophical ones. And I know you'll make the right call. Again, I'm so sorry. You have to say goodbye to your dad. It is an inevitable but painful part of life.
We're sending you, your dad, your siblings, and your mom, a big old hug.
My recommendation this week, a big rechargeable battery. I know people are like, what a battery. That's so unexciting. The brand I recommend is Anchor. It's A-N-K-E-R. I got one for Christmas from my brother-in-Law, and I was like, this is a waste. I'm never using this. Can I take this thing back? And Jen's like, oh my God, we're never gonna use these.
It turned out to be one of the things I've used most in my entire life. I used it until it wore out. This isn't last Christmas, they last longer than a year. Now we have this massive one that sits on a charging station in the kitchen, and it has become the charging HQ for all of the devices in the family.
So my nanny will be charging her phone on there and two iPads for the kids, and then I'll charge my phone on there. Jen's charging her computer on there. I'm just like, how do we survive without this? And when I travel, I take the big battery that Dets from the charging station. I take it with me every single time and I can't tell you how many times it's like Uhoh, this outlet, the hotel with the charger next to the bed doesn't work well.
Good thing I have this battery or this flight's delayed and everything ran out. Or the electricity on the plane in the plug suddenly doesn't work for anybody and I'm the only person you know, I'm charging my phone, I'm fine, my laptop's still going. I'll send you the one that we use here at home in the show notes, and if you click that link, it'll go through our Amazon affiliate account.
So you'll be helping to support the show as well. I know this is a weird sort of unsexy recommendation, but man is this utilitarian, I mean, is absolutely the most useful thing that we have. By the way, just so you guys know, none of the products that we share in recommendation of the week, this segment we're doing here, none of them are sponsors of the show.
These are just things we love. Sometimes we'll include that Amazon affiliate link. So if you buy it, we get like, I don't know, five bucks or whatever it is, I just wanna make that clear. Nobody's paying us to say, I really like this. That's not what this segment is about. Also, in case you didn't know, there's a subreddit for our show.
If you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, if there was an episode you really liked, an episode you really didn't like, or you wanna share some additional thoughts or learn more from other people in our show, fam, definitely check it out. There's some cool conversations happening over there about pretty much every episode.
You can find that over on Reddit in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.
[01:06:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright, next up. Hey guys. You talk a lot about going to therapy on the show, which I really appreciate and which has inspired me to finally start going to therapy myself. You also talk a lot about processing emotions in therapy, especially when you guys take letters about trauma, difficult experiences, tough memories, et cetera.
I understand what talking about your experiences means in therapy, but what does processing actually look like? What should it look like? Is that different from talking or is it part of talking? Also? I've started to look for therapists in my area and I'm kind of shocked by how expensive decent therapy is.
I've had to put off going for a while because of the cost, and when I do begin, I'm gonna have to be very frugal to afford it. I also might not be able to go for a long time, which kind of sucks. Any thoughts on finding good affordable therapy I can stick with for a while signed, want to hear your piece on how to release for ideally a reasonable fee?
[01:07:03] Jordan Harbinger: Well, first of all, I am so happy that you were inspired to begin therapy because of the show. That's great news. It means a lot to me because, well, especially because I still get the occasional message from people going like, why do you always recommend therapy? That's all you guys do on feedback Friday.
Wha And I wanna say, well, because we can't fix everything about someone's life in eight minutes. And also look, people start going and it is a absolute game changer. So good on you for going, for prioritizing it in your budget. That is fantastic. I'm super excited for you to begin and see the results from this.
So you're asking a great question, what does processing emotions actually mean? And actually we talk about that a lot, but I could be even clearer about it too. So I'm happy for the opportunity to dig into it. We wanted to ask an expert what this means. So we reached out to Dr. Aaron Margolis, clinical psychologist and friend of the show.
I'm also known to the people who know me the best as the duck, and the first thing Dr. Margolis said was processing emotions. And therapy is not just talking about your emotions, although that can certainly be a part of it. The short answer to your question in her view is processing your emotions is about learning to relate to your emotions in the most effective way possible, the healthiest way possible, given the circumstances.
The longer answer is that learning to do this can be a challenging, nuanced, sometimes multi-step process that looks different depending on the person, the emotion, the trigger, the situation in which a given emotion gets activated, all that. So when we talk about relating to your feelings differently or discovering a healthier way of engaging with your emotions, Dr.
Margolis feels that we're talking about either being able to feel that emotion without the same intensity or magnitude of distress, or if we do feel the same amount of distress, learning to manage it and move through it with relative ease. So, yes, for sure talking about feelings that can be part of processing, but how you talk about it, that's what's more important.
'cause obviously there's a difference between, say, exploring the different contours of the feelings you have and just you know, venting about them. So part of processing and therapy might include being able to accurately label an emotion, particularly at a really granular level. Dr. Margolis gave us an example.
Let's say somebody comes into session and says that they're sad. Sad is a pretty broad term. It also doesn't necessarily feel the same to everyone. So she might ask them questions about their sadness so that when they say to her, I'm feeling sad today, she knows exactly what that means in their mind, their heart, their body, their soul, whatever.
So really getting into the details of the feeling, that's one part of it. Because these things don't feel as overwhelming to manage when they're more granular, when they exist in bite-sized chunks rather than big, broad, amorphous, maybe even kind of unpalatable terms. But Dr. Margolis also said that another part of emotional processing might be really understanding that feeling, making sense of the feeling, knowing where it came from, why it's there, why it's connected to a particular experience or trigger, why it shows up for you when it does, how it shows up in the way that it does.
And part of understanding an emotion might also include understanding the function of that emotion, for example, is that emotion there to protect you from some deeper, more vulnerable feeling? Is that the feeling that actually needs her attention? Because it can sometimes be challenging to fully process an emotion if we don't understand what's beneath it, what role it might be playing, which also includes looking at how you are with your emotions when they come up.
For example, do you shame or judge yourself for feeling your feelings or maybe only some feelings? Sometimes processing experiences means learning to meet those emotions with more curiosity, more self-compassion, and then it might become a conversation about why it's difficult to meet a particular emotion with compassion.
What would meeting it with compassion look like? How might it shift the emotion?
[01:10:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. Which gets into another common element of emotional processing in Dr. Margolis view, which is meaning making, which is really funny because this is literally what we were just talking about in the previous question with the inheritance.
[01:10:53] Crosstalk: Mm-Hmm.
[01:10:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: We all attach meaning to our feelings. If you have a partner who doesn't respond to your needs in a way that feels good to you, for example, maybe you make the meaning, well, if I really mattered, they would respond better, so I must not matter. Or let's say you have a friend who I don't know, doesn't check in on you.
When you're in the middle of a hard time and you make the assumption, you start telling the story, well, they don't care about me because if they really cared, they would check on me and you can see how, you know, the thought leads to another thought, blah, blah, blah. But the meanings we make, they don't always reflect what is actually happening in reality.
So Dr. Margolis thinks that it's really important to know what meanings we're attributing to certain things, why we're attributing those meanings to a certain experience, and if those meanings are inaccurate or incomplete or unhelpful, to see if she and a patient can start to open them up. Which I happen to find super helpful, and that's a lot of what we end up doing here on the show.
You know, trying to answer a question sometimes not by finding the solution or debating the facts, but by inviting a listener to explore the different meanings that they get to make out of their situation.
[01:11:55] Jordan Harbinger: Totally. So there are a few elements that make up what we broadly call emotional processing. Dr.
Margolis wanted to be clear about this. This isn't a comprehensive list. There's no checklist or rubric for how to successfully process things. There are definitely other elements of therapy that might be involved in processing a given emotion. To quote her here, I don't know that there is a single should when it comes to processing your emotions.
The idea she came back to again and again was the way you talk about something and the specific things you talk about with regard to that emotion. That's what makes emotional processing successful,
[01:12:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: and what I thought was super interesting. She said most of the time these are experiences that a person never has when the original emotion was created.
In other words, if you had a traumatic experience when you were young, you might not have had anyone to help you understand the experiences that you associated with it. Maybe there was no one to recognize the meaning you were making out of those experiences at the time that they happened, and then intervene before they lead to emotional distress or difficulty.
So when you give yourself the opportunity to have new experiences with these emotions, with the help of a trusted clinician, that's also an important part of what leads to successful emotional processing. The ultimate question that she's always thinking about is, is this person having a new experience of their emotion in some way?
Are they thinking about it differently? Are they understanding it differently? Are they responding to it differently? Are those productive stops on the road to relating to old feelings in a new and more helpful way? So as a client, you might ask yourself those same questions as you begin therapy, and Dr.
Marla said that if you aren't sure or you aren't feeling that yet, that is totally okay. It can take time and you can absolutely discuss this with your own therapist and maybe get their sense of what processing is and ask them what they're looking for and what you might wanna start paying attention to, to make sure that you're on the right track, that you're making the progress you wanna make in therapy processing wise.
But all in all in her view, the fact that you're even open and willing to engage in this process, that you're showing so much curiosity about it, that is a great start.
[01:13:57] Jordan Harbinger: I second that. I say this all the time. It takes great courage and commitment to begin therapy to make it a priority, and I love that our friend here wants to make the most of it.
Okay, now about how expensive therapy can be. I hear you. You're right. It is quite expensive. Most healthcare systems, at least here in America, they do not prioritize mental health very well, which sucks. And that often prevents people from being able to access good therapy, which is a real shame. I mean, I've gotten quotes from therapists.
I was like, oh, I'm gonna go do it in person. It's like we're $365 an hour, and I was like, sorry, what did you say? $65 an hour or no, $365. Just, it can be insane. So totally separately from Dr. Margolis and her consult, this is Uncle Jordan talking here. Now I'm very happy to share that we'll be offering three months of free better health therapy to two of our listeners every month through the end of this year.
So if you need the gift of therapy but you cannot afford it right now, drop Gabe an email friday@jordanharbinger.com. He'll hook you up. But there are a few caveats to keep in mind. After the three months are up, you'd start paying for the sessions at Better Help's famously competitive rates, but you'd still have those 12 weeks on the house and you, and if you're like, nah, then you can cancel it.
It's fine. You're not just gonna, you're not on the hook for the whole year or whatever. You know, you just pay attention to that because they'll eventually start getting charged again. We can only give out two of these vouchers a month. So if we've already given them out before you write in, please don't be angry.
Please don't be disappointed. We're just working within Better Helps guidelines. I wish I could give hundreds of these away, but, uh, alas, they're not into that. When you write to Gabe, please include just a couple of sentences about why you need the support right now that'll help us make sure we're extending this offer to folks who really need it.
Basically make yourself sound as pathetic as possible. No, I kidding. But we, we really do need to know a little bit about you and we apologize in advance if you need to wait or it doesn't work out this year. Depending on how much demand for this there actually is. On that note, I think this goes without saying, but I'm gonna say it anyway.
We kindly ask that you only reach out if you truly need assistance in getting therapy. Better help is not that expensive, but some people really have no room in the budget. Please don't be shy about asking for help. We're truly excited to give these vouchers out, but if we get dozens and dozens of requests or hundreds, we wanna make sure that we're hearing from folks who truly need the financial support right now.
It's a really cool opportunity. We're really happy to be offering it, and we hope you take us up on it. And our friend who wrote in, whether you use better help or not, I hope you have a productive, interesting, fruitful journey in therapy. And again, I'm so proud of you for taking the first step. I have a feeling that you're gonna do great work there and to everyone else, we're happy to help you do the same.
So we'll look for your emails. Happy processing. Y'all. Go back and check out the episodes with Andrew Busante if you haven't done so yet, especially if you're into the geopolitics kind of stuff. I think it was just a real fun one. The best things that have happened in my life in business have come through my network.
The circle of people I know, like and trust. And I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself. Actually, we talked a lot about networking with Andrew Busante 'cause it's CIA. Agents basically live and eat and breathe this stuff. The six minute Networking course is something I've taught two intelligence officers from various agencies around the world.
It's free. It's on the Thinkific platform@sixminutenetworking.com. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Build relationships before you need 'em. And if you're in the intelligence services, I probably don't need to sell you on that. You can find it all for free@sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts@jordanharbinger.com.
Advertisers discounts and ways to support the show all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram, and you can also connect with me on LinkedIn Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created an association with Podcast one.
My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Foggerty, and of course, Gabriel Rahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Dr. Margolis input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience.
It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate and establish clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. She doesn't even know you. That's what we're trying to say here. Remember, we've rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.
And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. I. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show to check out, here's a trailer of our interview with hip hop legend Ti Harris on Holly went from committing crimes to committing rhymes.
If you like a good comeback story, stay tuned for that. To give you a little inspiration,
[01:18:24] Clip: let's expedite this ice. That's right now where I'm from, we do what we call pouring our own troubles. All
[01:18:31] Jordan Harbinger: right, cheers. Cheers. All right. You dropped outta high school. When you were that age, were you thinking, oh, I'm just gonna sell drugs for a while, then I'm gonna become a famous musician?
[01:18:40] Clip: Well, to be perfectly candid with you, that's exactly what I was thinking. Really. I was going to sell drugs until I earned myself the opportunity to become a musician or an artist. I found out my girlfriend at the time was pregnant with my oldest son, quit my job at the airport, completely starred headfirst into the street.
That probably lasted about three or four months, but my probation officer still thought I worked at the airport. We had been working on a demo to shop around. It was phenomenal stuff. I said, if you could take me somewhere right now where I could have an opportunity to present myself to somebody, then I'll stop.
Jason said, I know somewhere. And I say, see, that's why we on the team together. Mm-Hmm. So we pull up, Jason walked me in the room, and then immediately I meet Reese and Meow. Three months after that, I was signed. A month before my son was born, I was straight.
[01:19:29] Jordan Harbinger: Your parole officer must have been like, oh great.
He's got a record deal. All right. He's gonna be back at the airport in like a month and a half, but you are
[01:19:36] Clip: on thin ice, man. I mean, to be honest with you, he didn't find out I wasn't at the airport until I told him he still thinks he
[01:19:44] Jordan Harbinger: for more with ti, including some tips on how he runs his business here.
Check out episode 2 62 with Tip TI Harris right here on the Jordan Harbinger show.
Sign up to receive email updates
Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast.