796: Pervert-in-Law Scammer Belongs in the Slammer | Feedback Friday

796: Pervert-in-Law Scammer Belongs in the Slammer | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Special thanks to Peloton for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[00:00:07] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer Gabriel Mizrahi, a guy who is apparently stuck in the closet, literally. I'm looking at Gabe in his new home studio that he built in the closet. Pretty ironic, Gabe, given how many listeners—

[00:00:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:00:23] Jordan Harbinger: —we've helped come out of the closet and I don't know, just some of the comments over the years about your dulcitones.

[00:00:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Pretty hypocritical of me, I know, but it was the only place — I've wanted to do this since I moved in. I have this closet I don't use.

[00:00:36] Jordan Harbinger: Go into the closet, yeah.

[00:00:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: So I'm like, let me put a desk in here. Let me put up some soundproofing equipment. Also, being in this closet is the greatest place to work. It's like the walls are really close and I'm just very like dialed in. I like it.

[00:00:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you're more comfortable in the closet. I get it, man. You know, you got to walk the walk.

[00:00:52] On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave, and our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker so you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening even inside your own mind.

[00:01:16] Now, if you're new to the show on Friday, as we give advice, we answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with the variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week, we had Alastair Smith on the logic of dictators and authoritarians. So if you've ever wondered why strong men and dictators do certain things that just look crazy to outsiders, this episode is for you. This episode will change the way that you look at government leaders and especially seemingly kooky crazy dictators all around the world from Kim Jong-un to Vladimir Putin. This is a two-parter. I had a lot of questions about the Ukraine War and Putin, and how these sorts of governing figures make their decisions and calculations. So definitely check this episode out if you're interested in that sort of thing.

[00:02:01] Now, before we dive in, I wanted to talk about a DM that I got from a listener recently, and the DM said, "Hey, Jordan, I normally enjoy your show, and I've listened to almost all the episodes. Lately, there's a trend where you're talking a lot more than asking meaningful questions. Sometimes your long-winded comments end in a question like right, and I bring this up because your interview style has improved over the years, but I feel is now digressing." And I think he meant regressing. That's fine. And then, he wanted on to say some nice things about the show, and I just wanted to talk about that because I hear that from time to time. And it's interesting, and I never bothered to reply to it, but I will now.

[00:02:34] A little inside baseball, many/most of the things that I do and say on the show are pretty well practiced. So I've got coaches for this. I took out all the filler words that I used to say, and I've re-added them in manually, like that one in the right place to add pauses and affect and things like that. So me saying "right" at the end of a question is often a way for me to say something that I want or need to get out of the guest and lead them in a direction. I'm literally asking them to confirm something that I already know because I'm guiding the conversation. It's not some weird verbal tick that I can't get rid of. It's not a lack of confidence in my statement. It's the opposite of that actually. It's also, therefore, a reason because a lot of times I'm trying to lead the guest to say something and they're not getting it, or they're not giving me what I want and I want that bit of information in the show. So I say something and then I ask them to confirm it or to argue against it in some cases, because they'll say, "Well, actually it's this other way."

[00:03:32] Also, sometimes I add these questions in later. If the guest is saying something but it's really long-winded or it's muddled, I will often make it more concise. So I will synthesize what they said in four minutes. I'll frame it like a question in 45 seconds that they can just agree with, and then we edit out the word salad that they had beforehand. And the reason I do that is because I don't want a two or three-hour-long show when I can have an hour-long show. I've talked about that philosophy before. A lot of people say, "Why don't you do longer episodes?" Because we don't need to. We can do in 45 to 75 minutes what other guys do in three hours because I've actually prepped the episode and I know what is going to come out. And I don't get stoned and start talking about aliens. I don't want to digress too much here, but I noticed that a few of the people saying like this and are giving me, let's put in air quotes, "advice" on how to conduct the show because they don't understand interviewing, et cetera.

[00:04:24] So I wanted to clarify that and explain why sometimes I go on a bit. It's not because I'm a top-shelf narcissist, that's only one of the reasons, it's because sometimes I think it helps the interview, it saves you time as a listener. It saves you from going, "Wait, what the hell is he talking about?" And then, to have that rephrased by the guest, but different strokes for different folks. If you don't like me saying right, well, you're in the wrong place. But I do appreciate it when you all send me feedback and I do take it seriously. And it's always interesting to hear what people do and don't respond to or what comes across as me not knowing which end is up because maybe I can do this in a different way.

[00:04:59] I should actually collect some of the bad advice that I've received at some point. I've had people tell me some pretty wild stuff like, "Hey, stop talking so much on the show. Your job is to ask simple questions and then be quiet. Don't turn the show into a conversation." I've literally gotten advice to not be conversational on this podcast, which by the way is called The Jordan Harbinger Show, so it might be kind of a tall order to step back completely. But basically, the advice was, stop doing all the things that set this podcast apart from a random talking head news show. No, thanks. I'm going to pass on that. I feel like many of you are here for a reason, namely that the show is structured in a certain way and that I talk an appropriate amount in the show and/or get really good information out of guests that they don't get elsewhere.

[00:05:41] In fact, when I have interviews with certain guests that are on other big shows, one of the most common bits of feedback is, "Wow, you did in half the time what podcaster X did and twice the amount of time and it was more interesting." And the reason is because of prep and because almost everything I do and say has a strategy behind it. Rarely am I just working through something in real time. I've already sort of done the processing because I've already read the books.

[00:06:07] Anyway, we've got some fun ones and some doozies and I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of this mailbag?

[00:06:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, six months ago, I received a text message from an unknown number with an explicit photo of me along with a warning that they, quote-unquote, "have more." I've never taken a picture like that, so I ignored it and wrote it off as a scam. A month later, I came home to find a flash drive wrapped in a Post-it Note with the same phone number and warning this time in my underwear drawer.

[00:06:36] Jordan Harbinger: Whoa.

[00:06:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: I told my boyfriend and we called the cops. The police took the flash drive and screenshots of the conversation my boyfriend had with the unknown number pretending to be me. The scammer sent more explicit pictures of me and warned that he still has more. He also blackmailed me, threatening to show my colleagues at both of my jobs, the pictures and videos if I don't sleep with him.

[00:06:57] Jordan Harbinger: Whoa.

[00:06:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: The police have those too. I did a phone dump for evidence. Well, it turns out that the scammer is actually my brother-in-law.

[00:07:11] Jordan Harbinger: For real though. This is super, super messed up.

[00:07:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is insane.

[00:07:15] On a recorded phone call I had with him, he admitted to hiding a nanny cam in my room eight years ago.

[00:07:20] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

[00:07:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: When he had just started dating my sister because he, quote-unquote, "had a crush on me." I told my sister who said she was actually getting suspicious that I was having an affair with her husband. She would often look through his phone to find his Instagram open to my account as if he would spend hours looking at my pictures. She also found two more flash drives hidden in his car and a half-naked photo of a woman we don't know. My sister ended up taking his laptop and we turned it over to the police for evidence. I asked the police for a timeline on his arrest as I am pressing charges, and the detective said, "We're hoping for this week, but things may come up." That was three months ago. My brother-in-law was asking my sister about his laptop, so she called—

[00:08:01] That's weird, right? Like he's asking her about the laptop. What does that mean?

[00:08:04] Jordan Harbinger: "Hey, where's my laptop that you took to the cops?" "Oh, hold on. Let me call the detective—"

[00:08:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Odd.

[00:08:08] Jordan Harbinger: "—who's pursuing you to see if I can get it back." That almost doesn't add up, but I think maybe she was just trying to be concise and the guy's probably like, "Where's my laptop? Have you seen it?" And she's like, "Oh crap, he's going to know."

[00:08:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Yes. I think that's probably, yeah, that's actually must be what it is. Okay.

[00:08:21] So my brother-in-law was asking my sister about his laptop, so she asked the police to see if she could get it back soon. They were very rude to her and admitted that the password she gave them to the device was wrong and no one had bothered to call her about it. Outside of that, they never returned our calls and I've yet to hear from them. Meanwhile, this sick individual is still on the loose. As you can imagine, this has all been very traumatic for me and my family, and the lack of service from the police department is very disheartening. But now, there's a new wrinkle. My sister was divorcing her husband, but my family and I now suspect she's getting back with him. She's out late most nights and is being very secretive. She generally talks about her thoughts and problems all the time, but she's been quiet lately and doesn't tell us where she's going. This is incredibly painful. He emotionally abused her, cheats on her, and doesn't respect her, and it's infuriating that she would tolerate that. This guy is dangerous. I'm extremely concerned for my sister's safety. My heart breaks for her knowing that she's accepting less than she deserves. Is there anything else I could be doing here? What can I do to move this along and put this behind me and should I confront my sister about getting back with him? Signed, In Awe of the Flaws in the Law Designed to Stop My Brother-in-law.

[00:09:37] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. This is insane.

[00:09:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Insane.

[00:09:40] Jordan Harbinger: And pretty freaking dark, man.

[00:09:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:42] Jordan Harbinger: My God, what a story, nightmare fuel, truly. The nanny cam thing is just so freaking creepy. It's like out of a horror movie.

[00:09:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Creepy.

[00:09:50] Jordan Harbinger: I'm so sorry this is happening to you or has happened to you. This is disturbing on so many levels, and obviously just to be targeted in this way for so long by somebody so close to you eight years ago is just horrific. But then, for the police to take their sweet-ass time investigating this and then not tell you that the passwords, I mean, it's just peak incompetence really. And find out that your sister might still be carrying on with this. It's just adding multiple insults to a very real injury but let's come back to that in a moment.

[00:10:19] First, let's talk about why this is happening and what you can do about it. We wanted to run all of this by an expert, of course. So we reached out to defense attorney and friend of the show, Corbin Payne. And the first thing Corbin said was that, unfortunately, he's not surprised at all by your experience here. I was kind of hoping to hear the opposite. But in his view, police around the country are failing to investigate crimes like these, partly because it's far more profitable to pursue drug cases unless you're that neighborhood from last week where they don't want to pursue drug cases because there's a meth camp in front of the apartment building and they just don't feel like dealing with it. Makes you wonder what the cops are doing at all, right? If they're not going to go after drug crime and not go after this, what are they doing? Where do you live? Syria?

[00:11:02] Corbin's opinion is that the police are either not going to act on this at all, or they'll get around to it in their own good time, which is no comfort to you. So Corbin wanted to talk first and foremost about a few ways that you can protect yourself here. His take is that you need to pursue an order of protection, also known as a restraining order. This gets called different things in different jurisdictions, but it's the same thing. In general, you can get an order of protection for either violent behavior or for stalking, harassment, whatever, or for both. And Corbin wanted to flag that because sometimes victims will file for an order of protection and be told erroneously that it only applies to victims of real or threatened violence. And that is not true. Now, this depends on what state you live in, but Corbin said he'd be shocked if you weren't able to file for an order where you've been stalked and harassed. That's kind of one of the main purposes of these things, and most states have radically simplified the process in order to empower victims with limited means to get protection without having to shell out for an expensive attorney.

[00:12:02] I mean, the dude came into your house. So you'd think that would be enough here. Not only is he blackmailing you and he took explicit photos, but he entered your house without your permission, went into your underwear drawer to plant the threat. I mean, that is way more serious than somebody randomly emailing you and you're not sure if they have anything. So Corbin, generally, recommends hiring an attorney and I would as well. But this is one of those few instances where he believes you'll be okay doing this yourself, especially given how in command of the facts you seem to be here and how well you're able to capture what happened to you. Plus, you have a ton of evidence, don't you? You've got the threats and the photos and everything.

[00:12:37] So to get started, Google filing an order of protection or restraining order in your county and your state. You should find the process very quickly. You might even be able to download some forms, or you can go to the court clerk in your area and fill them out right there. Now, there are a few things you need to keep in mind when filing. First, you need to be specific in your allegations saying that you need an order of protection because your brother-in-law sent you harassing messages attempting to blackmail you. That's fine. But if you can provide specific dates, the frequency, the nature of the messages, that's a whole lot better. Second, bring in screenshots, videos if you have any, and a copy of the phone call that you recorded with your brother-in-law. That documentation, that is going to be key. We've said it on the show before of document, document, document. That's always the key here. In a "he said, she said" situation, of course, the dude's going to deny it, right? He's going to say, "It's not me." Corbin's experience is at the party with the evidence, they almost always win.

[00:13:34] Third, you need to Google your state's laws around recording phone calls. These are called wiretapping statutes. If you live in a one-party consent state, that means only one party needs to consent to being recorded and that party can be you, which means you could introduce the audio of the phone call as evidence. Now, if you live in a two-party consent state, you should still be able to hand the call over to the police, but it wouldn't necessarily be usable in court. Now, that said, if a judge listens to it and doesn't admit it into evidence, that still counts for something. So don't feel like even though you got a confession from this dude, maybe you can't use it. It's still better than nothing. Still, Corbin recommends looking into your state laws to make sure that it's not a crime to record a conversation without the consent of all involved.

[00:14:18] Fourth, and most important, you need to ask that the intimate photographs you introduce into evidence be kept out of the public record. And this is something a lot of victims go through this, right? The default for evidence is that it's in the public record, and that can make people scared to report, scared to process things. They end up putting up with stuff they shouldn't because they're worried that there's going to be topless or worse photos of them in an evidence record that people can Google or find later or request copies of. But Corbin said there are certain instances where some filings may be kept private. This is sometimes called under seal, meaning they'll be in the court file, but they're not going to be accessible to the general public. In Corbin's view, somebody being harassed with non-consensual, intimate pictures, they're entitled to these protections and it shouldn't be too hard to get that to work for you.

[00:15:08] Here's the big advantage to filing an order of protection. Once the judge grants you one, you can have your brother-in-law arrested if he so much has texts you, "I'm sorry." The cops can be as lazy and incompetent as they want, but what they can't do is ignore somebody violating a court order. Then, they're going to have to answer to a judge if they try to do that. It's not just you leaving a message on their voicemail for the 87th time. So that's a bright spot there. Judges don't like it when police are lazy and don't enforce court orders and judges sign warrants, so the police kind of need them to, they need to be on their good side in order to get things done.

[00:15:45] Now, let's talk about how to motivate the police. Corbin had a few other ideas here too. First of all, he recommends calling your local prosecutor's office. Depending on the size of the office, they probably have somebody designated as a victim coordinator who interfaces among the prosecutors, the police and the victims. In Corbin's experience, sometimes some gentle prodding from this office can motivate the police to get off of their butts and investigate, especially since there seems to be evidence that your brother-in-law has done this to multiple women. Now, I may be jumping to a conclusion here, but if there's explicit photo of a woman that neither of you know, that was found, what was it? On the laptop or in the car, that is evidence that he's doing this to other people. And also whenever somebody does super creepy sh*t like this, I don't know about you, Gabe, but I kind of assume—

[00:16:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: There's something else going on.

[00:16:31] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this isn't the first and only time that he's done this thing and he's been doing it with the same person for eight years. I think he's just a—

[00:16:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:16:37] Jordan Harbinger: —serial creep.

[00:16:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Probably right.

[00:16:39] Jordan Harbinger: Most likely.

[00:16:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:16:40] Jordan Harbinger: Anyway, in a prosecutor's office, they don't have to prove that. They just have to think that that's a possibility and maybe go for it. Another option—

[00:16:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:16:47] Jordan Harbinger: —reach out to advocacy groups for victims of harassment or domestic violence and see if they have any ideas or resources to share with you. My guess is that if this is happening to you in your state, it's happening to other women. And if nothing else, Corbin said, these folks might have the inside track to get the right people on the case. Maybe the cops you're talking to don't care, but maybe there's a couple of other detectives that really have, I was going to say hard on for cases like this, not exactly inappropriate way to describe it, maybe there are detectives that are more interested in helping with these cases. Maybe, it's a female detective who's gone through this and realizes how harmful this really is. Who knows?

[00:17:24] Finally, Corbin said, you have one other option, which is to go public with your story. Now, this is not going to be the most fun, but as we've talked about on the show before, quite frankly nothing lights a fire under lazy-ass law enforcement asses quite like negative publicity. So if you're willing to tell your story, and I'm not saying all cops are lazy, calm down, emailers, if you're willing to tell your story, Corbin's advice is to find a passionate local reporter and tell them what you've been going through, the harassment for sure, but also the police indifference, and you can call any news station. You can also find almost every correspondent from your local area on Twitter, and you can send them a message. They often have their DMs open specifically for story tips and things like that.

[00:18:08] As Corbin put it, law enforcement as a whole is extremely sensitive to criticism, especially right now, and allowing a member of their community to be continually harassed, especially it's a horrific way, that's going to freak out a lot of people and it'll probably spark some very well-deserved outrage in your community. However, and Corbin said he cannot stress this enough, and I agree, it is key that you get an order of protection before you go public. You're going to need that extra layer of protection in case going public really sets your brother-in-law off, which it might, and which you have to be prepared for as frightening as that is. Or who knows, maybe he'll freak out and back off for good, which would be a great outcome. But I would just, I would cover all your bases before going wide with your story.

[00:18:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Very smart advice. Jordan, it infuriates me that she has to take things into her own hands like this—

[00:18:59] Jordan Harbinger: I agree.

[00:19:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: —when there's a system that's supposed to protect her. But yes, these are excellent options. So now that we've covered the legal stuff, let's talk about your sister. So I do think it's important to talk to her about this because, first of all, you need to know for sure whether she is seeing her husband again in the absence of confirmation about that, your mind and your family's minds might be running with this story, very plausible story by the way, but still a story that your sister is getting back together with your abuser, and I am sure that is causing you a ton of distress. But who knows? She might be out late every night drowning in her sorrows because knowing what her husband did is so terrible. Or dating somebody new, she doesn't want to talk about or just staying out late to avoid her husband or avoid interacting with you and your family because it's just too painful. All of these things could be true.

[00:19:51] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, we don't really know what she's doing. She might be working at a freaking strip club to earn extra money or something like that because she's going to leave her husband. She just doesn't want to talk about it. I mean, who knows? It could be anything. We're just speculating at this point.

[00:20:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or she really is still seeing her husband, in which case your anger and your heartbreak are completely warranted. But you need to find out for sure and then you can decide what to do.

[00:20:11] Jordan Harbinger: So what does she do? She has to get her to stop, right?

[00:20:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ideally, yes. If she confirms that she's still seeing this guy, then I would tell her very directly that what she's doing is, I mean, look, it's insane. It's reckless, it's dangerous to both of you, and basically unconscionable and not only hurtful, given the things that her husband has done to you, but also very sad for you to watch as her sister, and I would say what you said to us, which is basically, "This guy emotionally abused you. He cheats on you. He doesn't respect you. He literally spied on me and blackmailed me to get me to sleep with him. This dude is a dangerous predator," and it's deeply concerning to you that she's tolerating that. And I loved how you put it to us in your letter when you said that your heart breaks for her, knowing that she's accepting less than she deserves. I mean, that is a very compassionate thing for you to say to your sibling and also just says so much about you.

[00:21:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I agree that she can step outside of her experience, which is the real headline here, and appreciate why her sister should not be with this guy. I don't know if I'd be as compassionate. I'd be like, "Are you a freaking moron? What is wrong with you? Don't talk to me until you get rid of this POS." But you know, she's a better person than I am, what can I say?

[00:21:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: It would absolutely be fair for her to say, this dude is a bonafide monster breakup with him right now, but here she is empathizing with her sister and believing she deserves better too, which is just very sweet.

[00:21:35] Jordan Harbinger: It really is. This woman is definitely a real one. And that is probably another phrase that I am too old to say. I think it probably almost certainly is.

[00:21:47] Soundbite: How do you do fellow kids? What? [30 Rock]

[00:21:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: That clip does not get old. It is so good. Honestly, I think you're good there. I think real one is fair game in your 40s. Like there's no expiration date on that. And you're right, she is a real one. I mean, look at how she's handled this nightmare. She's a trooper. So I would have that conversation with your sister and then the ball is in her court. If she has a shred of intelligence and respect for you, she will drop this guy immediately. But if she doesn't, I mean, I hate to imagine that possibility, but you'll have to decide how to handle that. I don't think there's one right answer, but if her carrying on with him is a real wound for you to say nothing of the fact that it puts you in even more danger, you're well within your right to say, "If you stay in contact with this guy, I need to step back from our relationship for a little while and protect myself," and that will be very painful in a whole other way, but it would be entirely appropriate and maybe even necessary.

[00:22:42] Jordan Harbinger: Of course. What does she suppose to do? Grab frigging frappuccinos with a sibling who won't drop her deranged sex crime and blackmailing husband who treated her like garbage and then targeted her own sister. There's no way. I just don't see how you can have a relationship with somebody who would stick with this guy after what he's done. There's no gray area here for me. It's not like he said some inappropriate stuff, drunk at a Christmas party eight years ago. He broke into the house and planted a camera that he used to get photos of you naked so that he could use it to try to get you to sleep with him. I mean, this is absolutely—

[00:23:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Unambiguous.

[00:23:16] Jordan Harbinger: —premeditated, psychopath behavior.

[00:23:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:23:18] Jordan Harbinger: Just absolutely non-negotiable. Obviously, I hope your sister can hear what you say and she wakes up. And look, I don't want to speculate too much, but I get the sense that your sister, she might not be the strongest, most decisive person for whatever reason, let's just put it that way.

[00:23:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, she also sounds pretty avoidant. I mean, she found her husband creeping on her sister's Instagram account multiple times, didn't bring it up with her, or presumably with her husband until her sister came to her and said, "Guess what he's been doing?" So it's very possible that her MO is to just bury her head in this sand or to explain away this insane stuff.

[00:23:54] Jordan Harbinger: Or, you know, she actually does know how awful he is and she wants to leave, but she's too afraid because she's caught up in her own cycle with this maniac. Or who knows? She has low self-esteem and is afraid she's going to die alone. So she's going to put up with—

[00:24:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:24:06] Jordan Harbinger: —literally anything, which is what this guy is. You'd be surprised people will stay with absolutely horrendous people because it's better than the alternative of coming to the conclusion that you're unlovable for some reason.

[00:24:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also very possible. And I'm glad you brought up the other element that she might be caught up in this guy's abuses as well. I mean, look, he is abusive, he is manipulative, he is terrifying. We know how difficult that can be. We've heard this story on Feedback Friday—

[00:24:28] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: —many times, and if that's the case, then you and your sister definitely need to talk. You might have to give her the support and the confidence she needs to leave and to leave safely.

[00:24:38] Jordan Harbinger: Although it's kind of absurd that she now might have to help her sister given that she's the victim.

[00:24:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:24:44] Jordan Harbinger: But if they're both victims, then yeah, they can help each other, they need each other, and that's important.

[00:24:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's important and they're lucky to have each other, but this is why they need to talk , right? Like they need to get super clear with each other on where they stand with this guy. If they're not on the same page, yeah, then there's a bigger problem.

[00:25:00] Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely right. So I hope this gives you a way forward here. Again, I am so sorry that this is happening to you and I'm very sorry. And honestly, quite outraged that the police are bling your case like this, or at least just sleeping on it. It's just ah, so incompetent and so lazy. It must be an awful feeling and it doesn't inspire much confidence in the people who are sworn to protect and serve supposedly. But we have to work with the system that we have. So at a minimum, I would definitely get that order of protection and then do everything you can to get justice on your own.

[00:25:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: And listen, in time, you will be able to put this behind you. I don't know if that'll be when this guy ends up in prison or when your sister divorces him for good or when the order of protection comes through, or just when enough time passes that the wound is healed and you're free of this whole ordeal. But it will happen and that will be an amazing feeling. But unfortunately, that will happen on its own timeline, and part of your job now is to move through this very weird, very intense chapter with as much patience and as much grace as you can for yourself, for the system as annoying as that is, even for your sister, I know that's infuriating. I know it's unsettling, but it's a practice and it's really your only option while this crazy thing plays out.

[00:26:18] Jordan Harbinger: Totally agree. I would also check out episode 135 with Joe Navarro and episode 329 with Gavin de Becker to learn more about predators, actual predators and how they operate. We'll link to those in the show notes for you. Boundaries and violations of boundaries were mentioned very specifically by Gavin and Joe when they talked about the predator mindset. It's a really good primer and kind of mandatory for anyone listening in my opinion. A lot of times predators will deliberately violate personal boundaries in little ways before they violate in bigger ways. This guy seems to have gone straight to really, really big ways, but that's scary because somebody who breaks into your house to plant evidence like this, to get you to have sex with them, might find other more violent ways to get that same result or outcome. And I'm not trying to scare you, but I'm also trying to be very real with you here. So please take care of yourself. Keep us posted. We're sending you our best thoughts and a big hug from California.

[00:27:13] Phew, Gabriel, man, literal monsters out there. I hope the cops nab this guy and throw him in a cell as soon as possible. This guy's just an unmitigated creep and a menace.

[00:27:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:23] Jordan Harbinger: It's just really disgusting. This guy is going to commit a violent sex crime if he hasn't already.

[00:27:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:30] Jordan Harbinger: That's my non-professional opinion, just based on this guy's behavior. Our friend here, her sister, everyone in their community really just deserves better.

[00:27:38] You know who won't use an objectively traumatic tale of predation and manipulation to make a few bucks, and so you don't have to email them for the 13th time saying they're heartless capitalists who make light of other people's wounds to line their own pockets? Because that's literally the opposite of what they do in the situation calls for it, because they're definitely not monsters, just a couple of guys on a podcast who like to keep things light from time to time, because 99.9 percent of you understand and appreciate these guys. We'll be right back.

[00:28:02] A lot of people ask me how I'm able to stick to my fitness routine, especially since I have such a bananas schedule. For me, it's really creating a routine that is sustainable and can be duplicated on an ongoing basis. Consistency is the key, right? And Peloton helps me have a sustainable fitness routine because there are thousands of classes to choose from. It's also 24/7. I've always got time for it. I might only have 15 minutes in between calls, but I can still fit in a Peloton class. Peloton is really famous for their bikes, but they also make a top-notch rowing machine that stores upright, which you think no big deal. But when you try to have a rower on the floor, you'll be so glad this thing goes upright. If you're a newbie to rowing, the Peloton Row has sensors that can track your movements, that shows you how your form is doing, and it warns you if you're doing something wrong that could injure you or whatever. And right now is the perfect time to get rowing. With Peloton Row, we can promise you've never rowed like this before. Peloton Row offers a variety of classes for all levels and game-changing features that help you get rowing or advance what you can already do. Explore Peloton Row and financing options at onepeloton.com/row.

[00:29:03] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. If you're going through a tough time, there's no shame in getting help. I highly recommend it. You need not suffer any longer. Better Help is a great option for this. The Better Help platform makes receiving therapy so much more realistic for people who are busy, can't get around, don't want to get around. I just, I love how convenient it is to communicate. You can choose from chat phone, video sessions. You can text your therapist at any time. Share journal entries with your therapist, all within the Better Help app, which by the way, I checked my iPhone, has over 94,000 reviews at a five-star rating. Better Help will match you to a therapist that is tailored to your needs. Finding the right therapist, I think is, it's like finding a shoe that fits. The first one you match with might just not be it. And it's important that you're comfortable, but you have access to over 25,000 licensed professional therapists on Better Help. They're all verified, vetted by Better Help, so you can try and mix and match all you want. I can't tell you the excuses I came up to with why I didn't need to go to therapy when I finally broke down and did it really just only wished that I'd started sooner. So I encourage anyone looking for mental health help, even a little bit, maybe kind of to give it a try.

[00:30:06] Jen Harbinger: If you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan to get 10 percent off your first month. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:30:17] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening and supporting the show. It is your support of our sponsors that keeps everything going. All the deals, all the discount codes at jordanharbinger.com/deals. And hey, try the AI chatbot on the website. Ask that for the promo codes. It should spit them out in a clickable format. Consider supporting those who support the show.

[00:30:35] Now, back to Feedback Friday.

[00:30:38] All right, Gabe, what's next?

[00:30:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 32 years old and I'm just starting my final semester in community college before transferring to university in the fall to finish my BA. My education has been sporadic over the years due to my increasing alcoholism throughout my 20s and my struggle with depression and suicidal ideation. I've now been sober for two years, and I'm physically and mentally in the best shape I've ever been.

[00:31:04] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That's amazing, man. Just stop here and take stock of what you've shared. You had an addiction, you were depressed, you had suicidal thoughts for like a decade and now you're sober, taking care of your mind, taking care of your body, and you're finishing college. I think that's amazing.

[00:31:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is amazing.

[00:31:20] Jordan Harbinger: I feel like we talk so much on the show about second chances. We hear a lot from people who think, "Ah, it's too late to change." This is kind of a recurring theme in a lot of stories. And then you hear a story like this and it's like, wow, you did it. You changed your mind, you changed your body, you changed your prospect. It's just never too late to decide to be a different person. It might be hard as hell, but it's never too late. And I just find that insanely inspiring. So, sorry, go on. I'm just kvelling over here.

[00:31:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Kvell away. This dude is incredible. So he goes on.

[00:31:50] I'm finally making great progress towards a degree in psychology. Something, I never thought I'd live to see. I'm even considering graduate school. Also something I never once in a million years could have imagined.

[00:32:01] Oh dude, this—

[00:32:02] Jordan Harbinger: Man—

[00:32:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: —this is a big deal. Yeah.

[00:32:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:32:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I feel a great deal of pressure. Time is ticking away, but I also realize that part of college is exploring different majors, so I'm trying to be patient and gentle with myself as I traverse this strange new terrain as an older student. As I enter my final two years, how do you recommend I fully take advantage of the opportunities available to me, especially within the realm of psychology? If you were approaching university as a 32-year-old, what would you do to maximize the experience and navigate the uncertainty inherent to the process? Signed, An Older Sophomore in a Game of Tug-of-War to Make the Most of School Forevermore.

[00:32:41] Jordan Harbinger: Great question. So look, I know this question feels very complicated because you had a long and winding road to get here. You feel this pressure to make up for lost time, which I definitely understand and I actually don't think that's entirely a bad thing, but I feel the answer is actually pretty simple. Your job from here on out is to play and explore as much as possible. Soak up as much as you can. Open yourself up to as many relationships and opportunities as possible, and keep chasing the ideas and fields and problems you find meaningful. That's it. If you're passionate about psychology, which you clearly are, go find the best psych professors at your school and take all their classes. Go to their office hours. Ask them good questions. Ask them for reading recommendations. Tell them your story if they seem interested. Get their advice. Proposed papers or research projects you'd love to do, things that would make you competitive for your masters. Be passionate. Work your ass off. Show them you care. Connect with the handful of other students you meet who share your passion. Study together, collaborate, help them, let them help. Explore your major through those relationships and form those relationships by exploring your major. It honestly isn't rocket science. It's a mindset and a lot of it comes down to focus, which it sounds like you have in spades.

[00:33:55] I mean, when I was in college, there were other distractions at the time. What I wouldn't spend time worrying about is this uncertainty piece because sure, the whole process is uncertain. And by that, I assume you mean that starting at university is an open ocean and you're not quite sure what the experience will be like, which is fair, but everything you do in life is uncertain. So my advice, as cheesy as this sounds, is to just jump into the water, man, embrace the uncertainty. It's exciting, it's inspiring. It's full of possibilities. You don't have to have every move on the chessboard mapped out. I know it feels that way sometimes, but you really don't. What you do need is a north star or two to follow.

[00:34:34] So maybe that's psychology as a field in general, or getting into grad school. Or learning as much as you can about a certain discipline or theory within the world of psychology, and that'll give your goals and your schedule some shape. It'll tell you what's important, what's not important, and hey, that north star, that can also change. You might get to campus and take a random class with a professor who blows your mind, and suddenly you're like, "I don't want to be a therapist. I want to be a research psychologist doing studies on the brain," or whatever. Or you'll meet somebody who drags you to an event on campus where you meet a guest speaker who gives you an internship in HR at their company, and suddenly you're like, "I want to do organizational psychology for Fortune 500 companies." I mean, the options are endless.

[00:35:15] So yeah, have a plan, have a goal, have a loose agenda. I love that. But stay open, stay curious. The best stuff in life, this is my experience anyway, the best stuff in life usually happens when you chase a goal you really care about, and then you stay open enough to life surprising you. Because what usually happens is you chase that goal into situations and relationships you never expected, and those situations and relationships serve you something you could never have predicted. And bam, that's your path now. And that's exciting. It's absolutely uncertain and it's exciting.

[00:35:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: I love that advice, Jordan. That is so true. It's also been my experience. My only other thought for you is keep having some grace for yourself as an older student. And you're already doing that, which I love, but I get the sense that you have a little bit of a narrative in your head that goes something like, "Oh, I'm 32, I'm just getting around to finishing college. That's kind of weird/embarrassing a little bit. So I have to be very deliberate about how I use my time and how I position myself and how people think of—" Like, that's all perfectly understandable, but the reality is you're 32 no matter what. And you're going to be finishing college whether you think it's embarrassing that you're an older student or whether you think it's awesome.

[00:36:29] So as much as you can try to stay open-minded about that story because the truth is you actually bring a ton of life experience to your psychology career, right? You've overcome an addiction, you've worked through depression, you've danced with these dark thoughts. I bet that gives you a lot of empathy for people who are going through something similar. A ton of insight into how the mind works, how life works, and if you do end up becoming a therapist, or you work in the profession in some way, your history, which I think maybe feels a little bit like a liability right now, that is going to be your superpower. I promise you. But you have to own it. You have to accept yourself where you are right now and find the advantages to doing your degree as an adult and there are a lot of them. I promise you, very few, if any of the 20-year-olds on campus will have that wisdom and experience that you're bringing. And I'm not saying that that makes you better than they are. It just makes you different and it gives you something very special to work with.

[00:37:26] So embrace that, man. That's the more accurate story. Not that you're behind, but that you've been through all this stuff and you're here now and you're bringing even more to the table as a result.

[00:37:37] Jordan Harbinger: Man, such a great point, Gabe. Because that story isn't just a fiction he has to tell himself to get through. That is what's happening.

[00:37:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:45] Jordan Harbinger: He just has to decide which story to put his energy into.

[00:37:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:37:48] Jordan Harbinger: And that one will get him so far. And by the way, to Gabe's point, I know tons of people who finish their degrees later in life. I know people who went back and got their MFTs at age 50, 60, 70 even. And they're seeing patients, they're writing, they're building their careers in the last 20, 30, 40 years of their life. it's amazing. And they all went through the same experience. They all had to decide, "Am I going to spend my time being ashamed and apologizing for doing this later in life, or am I going to own who I am and what I bring to the table and make that my value proposition? And when you think of it like that, there's only one reasonable option.

[00:38:24] So I hope that gives you a few new ideas about how to approach your degree. Man, you should be so proud about getting to this point. And the awesome thing is you're only just beginning. So keep accepting all these parts of yourself, put in the work and there will be a lot of work, but it'll be meaningful work and I know it'll take you somewhere great. Good luck.

[00:38:44] You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. Makes our job a lot easier. If there's something you're going through, a big decision you're wrestling with, or you need a new perspective on stuff, life, love, work. How to spot the red flags of a toxic narcissistic therapist? Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:39:08] All right, next up.

[00:39:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. In the middle of the pandemic, I started working for my cousin's company. The employee whose position I took over had decided to stop showing up for work, and when he was fired, he stole his work truck and the laptop that had all of the company's financial information on it. Though I went to school for marketing and social media, I was suddenly knee-deep in finances and QuickBooks. I was able to catch on quickly over the next couple of months and was grateful for the opportunity to learn. Then after working for the company for about three months, an online casino and betting app started to appear on the bank statements. I asked my cousin if this was a charge he had made. He said the company owed him money, but QuickBooks wouldn't show it because the former employee had stolen the laptop with the previous QuickBooks file.

[00:40:03] Jordan Harbinger: That is — what a genius, just putting it on the company card like, oh yeah, I have somebody doing the books. They're definitely going to think that this is part of our company expenses. He's not even trying to hide it.

[00:40:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not a criminal mastermind, this guy.

[00:40:14] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:40:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Since then, my cousin has taken almost $30,000 out of the company for gambling, and I believe his gambling is only getting worse. There was barely enough money to cover payroll last week. He left early from the office last week and withdrew $300 from an at m at the casino, which made several checks bounce. The company is in major debt at this point. That 30,000 would've gone a long way to pay off some bills. My cousin's business partner has found out bits and pieces about the gambling, but he doesn't know the full extent. When the business partner confronted him about what he knew, my cousin threatened to close the company and fire everyone.

[00:40:51] Jordan Harbinger: Geez.

[00:40:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Separately, I'm making a third of what the former employee was making. He also had a work truck whose maintenance, fuel, and insurance were all paid for. Meanwhile, I have to drive my personal vehicle, and even when I run errands for the company, I don't get reimbursed. Do I jump ship and find another job? Do I confront my cousin? Do I find a job and then confront my cousin before quitting? Is there a way out of this that will keep my relationship with my cousin Intact? Signed, A Financial Analyst Managing a Shady Abacus, Debating Whether to Be magnanimous Toward This Calamitous Avaris.

[00:41:27] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay, Gabe, going a little nuts over there in the closet.

[00:41:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm telling you, this closet is amazing. Like really, lets me click in on the rhyming.

[00:41:35] Jordan Harbinger: Big closet energy over there. So this is a bomb waiting to go off. Your cousin, where do we begin? First of all, do we believe the guy stole the work truck or do I do we secretly think the cousin sold the damn work truck and got rid of the laptop with the financial records on it?

[00:41:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh wow. I did not even think of that. I just thought that this place is such a—

[00:41:54] Jordan Harbinger: Like, don't you call the cops when somebody steals a vehicle from your business?

[00:41:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, of course, you do. That makes so much more — or he owed that guy money and he is like, "Keep the truck. Then, now, we're even, or something like that.

[00:42:04] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah. Like, "Oh, okay. Oh, he stole the truck and the laptop."

[00:42:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or he stole the laptop conveniently with the financial information. What? Probably, there's evidence on the laptop about what he's been doing, dude. Yes.

[00:42:14] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Or the guy's like, "Oh, I know you've been stealing money." "Fine. Keep the laptop in the truck and we're—"

[00:42:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: We'll call it even.

[00:42:21] Jordan Harbinger: "Don't say anything," yeah.

[00:42:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Don't say anything. Right.

[00:42:22] Jordan Harbinger: There's so many different options here.

[00:42:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ah, this place is a mess.

[00:42:26] Jordan Harbinger: What a cluster. So okay, the cousin is a gambling addict. That much is clear. He's probably misappropriating funds from his own company, aka embezzling, which even if it ends up not being a crime in this particular instance that's up in the air right now, he could get into a huge headache with the IRS for that. And on top of that, he sounds like a hot mess as a person and a boss, and he's not paying you a fair salary, especially given the role that you've inherited.

[00:42:51] So here is my strong advice to you. Get out of this company as soon as you can, seriously. Life is too short to stick around in a dumpster fire like this. But also, since you're in charge of accounting and finance, I'm worried about what your personal liability might be if you stick around. If the IRS ends up auditing your cousin, or if the police investigated the embezzlement angle, they're going to look at you and they might go, "Okay, well, she's the one handling the book. She obviously knew what was going on, or at least she rubber-stamped it or looked the other way. So she's now part of the investigation too, at least for now. And you just do not want that to happen. Plus, you're being paid one-third of what the last person made, which is BS. So you're hardly being compensated for the extra headache, kind of the other way around.

[00:43:36] So I think it's time to leave, find a new job, one you care about. Maybe you take your new QuickBooks skills to a place that's on the up and up, whatever you want to do now, and find a position you actually care about. But whatever you do, ditch this sinking ship before it goes down and takes you with it.

[00:43:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: I could not agree more, Jordan. Every day she sticks around—

[00:43:55] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:43:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: —this becomes riskier and riskier. My only question is, does she try to help her cousin?

[00:44:00] Jordan Harbinger: I don't know. So, okay, he obviously needs help, right? He's an addict.

[00:44:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:44:05] Jordan Harbinger: We just heard from an addict who turned his life around in an amazing way. So I do have some compassion here. But when you look at how he's behaving, ditching work early to gamble, dragging the company into debt, lying about where the money is going, causing checks to bounce. Then, when his partner confronts him, he just threatens to close the company and fire everyone. It's just such an immature, emotional reaction. It just paints a very dark and desperate picture. I don't know how you get through to that guy. He seems pretty determined to dig himself into a hole. It's not that addicts are bad people, but I think we all know they behave like crap when they're in the middle of this thing. And this guy's in the middle of it right now. I don't think anybody's going to be able to make him see what's going on. He obviously doesn't care about the consequences currently.

[00:44:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, okay, so here's what I would do. First of all, quit. If you can find another job first, great, but I wouldn't wait around for that. You got to get out. Then, I would probably sit down with your cousin, or if it's easier, write your cousin an email. And in this email, I would say, in fact, I'm leaning towards email and I'll explain why in a moment. In this email, I would say, as simply and as clearly as you can that you've recently come to learn that he's misappropriating funds from the company, that you will not be a part of anything unethical or illegal, and that you are resigning immediately. Then I would say that you believe he has a gambling addiction, and that as his cousin, you're happy to help him find the support and the treatment that he needs if he's ready to do that, and that if he doesn't, your opinion is that he will bankrupt this company and severely ruin his life. And that as his family member and as his employee, you're deeply concerned and you just, you can't stick around for that. And that you say all of that from a place of total love and a commitment to running a business that is healthy and legal and above board.

[00:45:50] And that email can be your one big attempt to get through to him and give him a chance to get the help that he needs. But it might also be your defense if it comes to something like this, if the IRS or the police or I don't know, a plaintiff's attorney, if the company ever got sued or something. If any of those people ever came sniffing around and wanted to know what your involvement was, having that in writing with a timestamp, that could be the thing that saves you if sh*t ever really hits the fan although I hope none of that ever happens. That is a good insurance policy. And then, yes, move on with your life and sure, be a lifeline to your cousin when he wakes up one day and his company is $200,000 in debt and he has creditors calling him every second of the day and he realizes, "Oh crap, I need help." But until then, I would keep your distance at least professionally. And if he refuses your help or he's not totally serious about getting better, then that will be very sad and very chaotic to watch. But you'll be able to sleep at night knowing that you did your part. And after that, your relationship with your cousin, that'll be entirely up to him and how he chooses to respond to this intervention, his problem, not yours.

[00:46:59] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Gabe, I think you nailed it. The only thing I would add here is, one, if you write an email like that, bounce it off an attorney first.

[00:47:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hmm.

[00:47:08] Jordan Harbinger: You're going to want to keep a copy. But also just make sure, because what you don't want to have happened is you say something that makes it look like you know exactly what's going on, but you're not reporting anything because he's your cousin. You want to give the indication to him that you'd think something is amiss and you've got some idea, but you don't want a smoking gun that says, "I have all this evidence, but I'm going to ignore it because we're family members, but I'm also going to quit."

[00:47:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a good point.

[00:47:32] Jordan Harbinger: That you don't want to be sort of—

[00:47:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Incriminate yourself.

[00:47:34] Jordan Harbinger: —accessory to this. Yeah. Yeah. So just be—

[00:47:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:47:36] Jordan Harbinger: —careful there. Bounce it off a lawyer. You know, I think our friend here has to tell the business partner what's going on too if the cousin refuses to come clean and tell him.

[00:47:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good point.

[00:47:44] Jordan Harbinger: It's really hard though, man. You could incur legal liability. The business partner might want you to testify against your cousin to tell the police, but also you kind of have a moral obligation to tell this guy that your cousin is stealing money from his business because all the employees' jobs are in jeopardy too.

[00:48:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree. And also this business partner already knows that there's something wrong, right? He already knows that there's something amiss, but he doesn't know the full extent of it.

[00:48:10] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:48:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: So really our friend here is just going to be filling him in and being like, "So you already know that this is happening? Let me tell you how bad it is and I just need to tell you because if I were in your shoes, I would want someone to tell me how bad it is so I can get out in front of it.

[00:48:22] Jordan Harbinger: There you go.

[00:48:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think that's fair.

[00:48:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Well, I'm sorry he roped you into this. It definitely sucks. But you have enough information now to know that it's time to get out. Good luck. I hope you find an awesome new job soon and one that doesn't dragoon you into committing any freaking felonies.

[00:48:36] You know what's a great use of your misappropriated funds though? The products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:48:46] This episode is sponsored in part by Peloton. I take my health seriously and invest time into making sure I stay active. I always try to get 10,000 steps a day, okay, maybe 8,000. But I needed a better way to build muscle and improve cardiovascular health, and I wanted to switch things up a little. Plus, it's tricky for my schedule. I'm off and on back-to-back calls. I'm reading, I'm researching. I'm preparing for my next interviews. I don't want to get in the car and get dressed and changed and look for parking, and then get athlete's foot in some communal shower. Plus, with two kids, I can't just wake up and get out of the house. That train has sailed. Working out at home before they're awake or during their naps has just been a key to staying active, staying healthy. Many people understandably fall off the wagon when they have these responsibilities, but you don't have to now with Peloton. There's many reasons why I love Peloton. First of all, one membership is good for the whole family. They're not under this delusion that every person should be charged in the house. I think that's just insulting somehow when companies do that. Peloton makes top-notch machines. The classes are taught by world-class instructors. Peloton bikes and treadmills also are great, but they've got the rower, which I honestly prefer out of all three. As typical with Peloton, the Row is a well-made piece of equipment. You can tell a lot of thought went into the design. The handle is comfortable grip. The seat is plush. My butt doesn't hurt when I'm on there for a while. Rowing is great for a full-body workout and good for improving your cardiovascular endurance. Gives you a little bit of a burn, right in all the right places. Doesn't mess up your joints when you're growing correctly. And I love that I can get my heart pumping in the morning before the kids wake up. I can get in a quick class if somebody cancels a zoom meeting or whatever. And what's unique about the Row is it gives you real-time form feedback. I mentioned earlier, if you're doing it right, it doesn't have impact on your joints. The seat and handle contained sensors. And during setup, you go through this sort of five-minute calibration process that enables a feature called Form Assist, which I fell in love with kind of right away. It's a little collapsible window on the left-hand side of the screen where you can monitor your technique in real time and it kind of gives you a grade and shows you highlights of areas that are bending or aren't bending correctly. Correct rowing form, it's not as intuitive as I thought it was going to be. And doing it correctly is actually harder than it sounds, especially once you start getting tired. Form Assist shows you a figure of yourself as you row. And when you screw up, like I said, it highlights you and shows you, hey, you got to avoid doing this and you're going to get super injured. If you do this, you're going to tweak something if you do that. You don't want that because then you can't work out which stops a lot of people who, you know, dive in for the first time or getting back into it after a long time. You don't want to fall off the wagon because of an avoidable injury. At the end of the workout, you get a readout of how well you did and a breakdown of your most common mistakes, which is cool cause then you're kind of competing against yourself. A little bit of self-grading never hurt anyone. The classes are also top notch. There's also scenic row workouts as well. I loved this on the bike. You could bike through, you know, Taipei, Taiwan, or whatever. Definitely go try it out. Right now is a great time to get Row. With Peloton Row, you've definitely never experienced — I've used many rowers. You haven't seen one like this before. At least, I haven't. Peloton Row offers a variety of classes for all levels and game-changing features that help you get rowing or advance what you can already do. Explore Peloton Row and financing options at onepeloton.com/row.

[00:51:51] If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, please do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors with stolen funds from your cousin's business. All of the deals and discount codes are at jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also always search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Thank you so much for supporting those who support us.

[00:52:15] All right. Back to Feedback Friday.

[00:52:18] Gabe, what's next?

[00:52:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a guy and I've just gone through a very tumultuous breakup. One day when my ex was supposed to be getting off of work, I checked his location to see if he was on his way home. To my surprise, I saw he was at a hotel next door to his work.

[00:52:36] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, God, it's—

[00:52:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, drama.

[00:52:43] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:52:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: That is a bold move checking into a Best Western right next to your office. I mean, that is brazen.

[00:52:50] Jordan Harbinger: It's funny that he noticed and didn't just think, "Oh, it's weird. The dot looks like he's at the hotel because he's not at work." Right? Yeah. I just assume the GPS is wrong. You know how sometimes it thinks you're across the street?

[00:52:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. No, those things are sensitive now. The GPS, it's like gets you exactly in the right, yeah.

[00:53:04] Jordan Harbinger: Dang.

[00:53:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: But that is a bold move.

[00:53:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's sloppy work. But those Best Westerns do be having the best cookies at check in though.

[00:53:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: They do? I think you're thinking of the Hilton Garden Inn. They're the ones with the cookies.

[00:53:15] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, you might be right, Hilton Garden Inn.

[00:53:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, Hilton Garden Inn.

[00:53:18] Jordan Harbinger: It's been a minute since I stayed one of those. Okay. So not only is this ex of his sloppy, he has terrible taste in hotel amenities. Good riddance.

[00:53:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Correct.

[00:53:26] Jordan Harbinger: Go on.

[00:53:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Leave this guy. Done. He goes on.

[00:53:31] Internet detective that I am, I logged into his Google Drive and discovered months of correspondence between him and my mortal enemy in life.

[00:53:39] Jordan Harbinger: Oof.

[00:53:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: He capitalized mortal enemy in life, M-E-I-L. I love that. Who has those?

[00:53:44] Jordan Harbinger: Not the M-E-I-L.

[00:53:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not the M, not the MEILs. Oh, okay. So you have a mortal enemy in life. That's very quaint. I love that. Okay.

[00:53:54] The only thing they have in common is talking negatively about me. Well, that and physical attraction.

[00:53:59] Jordan Harbinger: Oh God.

[00:54:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sometimes that's enough.

[00:54:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yeah. So that and banging it out at the Best Western.

[00:54:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:54:06] When I confronted him, he blamed his actions on being bipolar.

[00:54:10] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.

[00:54:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: For some reason, I stayed a while, but when he refused to get help or stop interacting with this person, I had to separate after four years together. We lived together, shared finances, bills, vehicles, and our dog. We were completely enmeshed in each other's lives and not in a good way. Fast forward to today, eight months later, and we're almost completely separated except neither of us wants to give up the dog. I am 100 percent financially responsible for the dog, and I have been since he was born. I have him half the week and I'm forced to still see my ex during pickups and dropoffs. Recently, we actually hooked up again during a dropoff and the sex was so passionate.

[00:54:54] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is there any way this arrangement can be successful long-term or am I just setting myself up for disaster? Am I crazy? Signed, Feeling Sketch About Still Playing Fetch With My Retch of a Convection Ex.

[00:55:08] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Yeah. Okay. This is messy, but it's messy in the way a lot of breakups are messy. There's always that period where you're disentangling yourself from the other person. Emotions are running high. You miss them. You backslide a few times. I get it. The problem here is that you guys share the dog, which not only sounds like a euphemism for something else, of course, but also means you don't have the advantage of not seeing each other for a while.

[00:55:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:55:33] Jordan Harbinger: So you can make that clean break and get your bearings, which I think is really important in a breakup. So yes, I do think there's a way that this co-dog-parenting arrangement can be successful long term, but it's going to take a lot of clarity, discipline, and strong boundaries on your part, which you know, I'll leave it up to you if you have it in you.

[00:55:52] Just to be very direct here. You need to decide what you want with this guy, what you want for yourself, and what hooking up with your ex now and again means to you, how it makes you feel, whether it gets you closer to or further away from the person you want to be right now. If you're hooking up every now and again, and it's fun and it's meaningless, and you're both on the same page about what that means, it could be okay, no judgment. But if hooking up comes with a lot of confusion and anxiety and regret or whatever, which it sounds like it does, since you're asking us whether you're setting yourself up for a disaster, whether this makes you crazy, then I would say you should probably take a step back and reconsider whether this is really healthy.

[00:56:31] Basically, you need to decide what your relationship with your ex is and what you want out of it. There's a world where you go over there to pick up the dog or drop them off. You see your ex, he looks really good and you want to do the no-pants dance with him, and he does too, and those feelings are strong, but you just let them be and you say, "Look, I'm still into you. I just don't think it's a good idea for us to fool around. It's just too confusing right now. I'll be back on Thursday to drop off the dog. Wear a shirt when you answer the door." And then, you go to the dog park. You go on a few dates with other guys. You see if you feel better or worse for keeping those feelings in check, that'll tell you a lot about whether this was the right move. If you don't do that and this relationship really isn't working, which it sounds like it is not, then yes, I do think you're setting yourself up for disaster or at least a lot of confusion and heartache because let's not forget. This dude cheated on you, lied about it, carried on with somebody you dislike. Refused to take accountability for what he'd done, blamed it on his disorder, which, okay, that might have played a part, and I get it, but that doesn't sound like a very respectful way to own what he had done and apologize. Your ex is a precarious dude.

[00:57:41] So my question to you is this the guy you really want to be carrying on with? Is maintaining a sexual relationship with him, honoring your values and enriching your life? Or is it just creating stress and holding you back? I obviously have my own suspicions about this, but I want you to answer those questions for yourself. If you do, I think you'll know what to do here. My only other idea here is to see if you can convince him to let you keep the dog, since it sounds like you've been his primary parent the whole time. You might even have legal rights depending on, I mean, you said you pay for everything. It's hard to say. That's a totally different question. Who knows? Maybe if you explain to him why you want to keep him and why you need to keep your distance, he would actually understand.

[00:58:20] I also know it's really hard to let go of a pet. This is a super common problem with exes. You guys might have to be in each other's lives as long as the dog is around, and if that's the case, then these boundaries will be even more important as you guys navigate this new chapter together. So good luck.

[00:58:38] All right, Gabe, what's next?

[00:58:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys. Three years ago, I moved from the US to the UK to be with my German partner. I like to think of myself as an adventurous person, and I travel a lot before our move. So I was extremely excited to live a life abroad, but the reality is not so easy. I gave up my career to go through immigration, then started over from scratch. Since then, I've worked my way up to a career in an industry I'm good in, but I feel a sense of confusion as to where I want to go from here. I'm also extremely close to my parents and my mom took this move, especially hard. She asks me when I'm coming home and says that I've abandoned her.

[00:59:19] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sometimes to the point of being a bit manipulative. I worry about my parents getting older and fear I'm not close enough if something happens. The emotional toll it has taken has been very painful. Then, recently we moved to a new city in the UK and now I'm back to square one trying to make new friends. Since then, my sense of self seems to be MIA. I try to hold things together by taking great care of myself, going to the gym, eating well, journaling, trying to make friends, and my relationship with my parents is much better now, but I still find myself depressed more often than not. I care for my partner deeply, but I don't feel connected to him a lot of the time. I hold back on intimacy or don't even bother pursuing closeness with him half the time. We have very good communication and I've told them about all of my feelings, but they still remain. He can't resolve them for me, even if it's comforting for me to know that he understands. I feel sad as I care about them a lot, but I just feel this deep lack inside of me. I yearn for the US and I constantly wonder what life would've been like if I had never left. At the same time though, if it weren't for my parents, I wouldn't want to live there at all. It's the draw of my family and my memories that tug in my heart so much. What should I do? Am I struggling because of the pandemic and my mom's reaction to the move, or because my intuition is telling me that I don't belong here? Do I stay or do I leave? Signed, An Expat Adrift Confronting This Rift Amidst the Gift of a Continental Shift.

[01:00:54] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh. Yeah. This is a very intense experience you're describing. You're really going through it, and I can hear that in your letter. I just, I know how tough these transitions can be, but I really love your question. You're trying to understand what these feelings are telling you. You're very curious about where they're coming from. I think that's terrific. So here's the bad news, just to get it out of the way. No one can answer these questions definitively except for you. But what we can do is parse your situation a little bit because what's so confusing right now is that all this stuff is merging into one big cloud of doubt and disillusionment and sadness, and it's hard to know exactly what's causing what.

[01:01:33] So first of all, moving to another country, that is no small thing, even for an adventurous traveler like you. You uprooted your life, you hit the reset button personally and professionally and socially. You're stuck between your parents in the States and your partner in the UK. That is intense. It takes tremendous courage to move to a new country, and it takes a lot of patience and resilience to build a new life. So everything you're describing is very normal.

[01:01:58] In fact, I remember having a lot of moments like this in my 20s when I was moving around a lot. Living in all these foreign places, the highs were super high, the lows were super low. The sadness, the longing you feel, I felt all of those things too. So you're not alone. I think all expats go through this at one point or another.

[01:02:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:14] Jordan Harbinger: But here is the great news. You're doing so many things right? You're exercising, you're eating well, you're socializing, you're journaling. I think that's all fantastic. Those things really keep you grounded when your life is in flux. They make it much easier to handle all the other challenges that crop up.

[01:02:30] So my first piece of advice is try to give yourself a little permission, a little grace, to be confused right now. I'm not saying you need to resign yourself to these feelings forever, but you might just be going through a period of adjustment and separation, and even mourning. Mourning the life you had back home, mourning your proximity to your parents, maybe even mourning the security of living at home, even if you didn't want to be there. Sometimes you just have to let yourself be kind of miserable to stop resisting the misery quite so much in order to find out if this situation isn't right or if you're just going through a transition that's bringing up some intense feelings. But a big piece of this is obviously your parents. So let's talk about them.

[01:03:11] It's interesting. I do feel for your mom and dad on some level, having your child move across the world, that ain't easy. I'm sure they really miss you. I'm sure they're going through it too, but it does sound like there's something else happening here, especially with your mom. Look, I love that you guys are close. That's very sweet. Don't get me wrong but to tell you that you abandon her. I don't know. It's a heavy thing to tell your child.

[01:03:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[01:03:33] Jordan Harbinger: It seems to reflect an assumption on her part that it's what your job, your job and your life is to stay close to her, to subjugate your goals, your desires, your relationship to her comfort. I disagree. And look, I might be biased because I grew up in the States. We tend to be more individualistic here, but in my view, that is manipulative and it's rather self-centered. I mean, I get that she misses you. She seems to be making your life primarily about her, which is just weird. It's a little weird.

[01:04:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. She's not saying, "You know, it's been really hard for me to not have you close by. I just, I feel like I need to talk to you about that."

[01:04:07] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: "But if the UK is really where you want to be, I understand." She's not saying that, right? She's saying, "You abandon me to live in the UK. I'm really struggling without you. Your dad and I are getting older. Something could happen to us, you know? When are you coming home?

[01:04:20] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. No wonder you feel this tremendous conflict.

[01:04:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:23] Jordan Harbinger: It sounds to me like your mom has created a real sense of guilt, of betrayal, even, and that's extremely hard to shake. I imagine that that makes it hard to really invest in your new life, to really enjoy it, because part of you might still feel beholden to your parents.

[01:04:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[01:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: Because if you forge your own identity and you put yourself first, which is what you're supposed to do as a grown-ass person, mom and dad are going to pay a steep price, and then your mom's going to rub it in your face a bunch and make you feel guilty about it, which is very unfair in my opinion.

[01:04:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is unfair. And it also makes me wonder how having a mom like that might—

[01:04:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

[01:04:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: —also be shaping her experience in general.

[01:04:59] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly.

[01:05:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Because look, her mom didn't just get like this—

[01:05:03] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[01:05:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: —when she moved to the UK, right?

[01:05:05] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm sure she was always like this and maybe this quality was a little subtler when she was younger, but I'm guessing in a lot of ways it was kind of the mom show growing up. The message being, my needs come first, your needs are secondary. Or maybe they don't even really matter and you have to live your life in a way that ultimately satisfies me.

[01:05:25] Jordan Harbinger: I could definitely see that message being transmitted from a young age.

[01:05:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: And look, I might be speculating a little bit here, but if she has a mom like that, then I wouldn't be surprised if she finds it hard to stay connected to what she wants to know that it's okay to want something that's different from her parents, to be able to open up to her partner and her friends, and trust that they will take her seriously and to have goals for the future. Maybe even to have a consistent relationship with herself.

[01:05:51] Jordan Harbinger: Well, I mean, isn't that exactly what she's describing?

[01:05:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Kind of.

[01:05:55] Jordan Harbinger: My sense of self seems to be MIA.

[01:05:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[01:05:57] Jordan Harbinger: For those of you who are abroad, haven't heard that. MIA is a military term means missing in action, so it just means gone. She's also said, "I still find myself depressed more often than not. I care for my partner deeply, but I don't feel connected to him a lot of the time. I hold back on intimacy. I don't even bother pursuing closeness with him half the time." I mean, there's a lot of just verbatim takes from here that indicate this.

[01:06:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: "I care about him a lot, but I just feel this deep lack inside of me."

[01:06:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, that sentence really jumped out at me in her letter as well. That's a very intense thing that she shared here.

[01:06:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't mean to make the math too neat here, but I see a straight line between that feeling or that lack of feeling and having a mother like this.

[01:06:37] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.

[01:06:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Because if you don't have a parent who can acknowledge your feelings with you and help you hold them, and just encourage you really to be your own person, and if you don't have a parent who can take you seriously and not just treat you like a, I don't know, like kind of a low-key caretaker or an extension or a reflection of them, like the kind of parent who by the way later in life would say, "You abandoned me for going—"

[01:07:00] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: "—and living your life somewhere," that is fertile ground for the kind of depression she's describing, which is the feeling of no feeling, of being cut off from parts of yourself that were perhaps too dangerous or inconvenient or unpleasant growing up.

[01:07:14] Jordan Harbinger: Which I imagine probably makes it even harder as an adult to build intimate relationships — to feel connected, to feel clear.

[01:07:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Yeah. To feel whole, which is hard enough on its own, but you can imagine how uprooting your life and moving to a whole new country would suddenly bring all of that to the fore.

[01:07:31] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yeah. That really adds up because our parents are the original template, right? That's the framework we tend to experience the world through, and that's the model for so many of our relationships as adults.

[01:07:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Including the one we have with ourselves. Yeah, exactly.

[01:07:44] Jordan Harbinger: So this tricky relationship she has with her parents, with her mom specifically, I'm with you. I'm sure it's showing up in all these other aspects of the problem, including with her partner.

[01:07:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which we got to talk about him for a minute, right?

[01:07:55] Jordan Harbinger: I'm very tempted to dig into that part of the story, but she hasn't really given us a ton of information about him. All we know. Is that she cares for him deeply. They communicate well, which is wonderful. I'm thrilled to hear that, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of intimacy there.

[01:08:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[01:08:09] Jordan Harbinger: And it's not clear to me whether that's because she's hiding from him, perhaps for the reasons you just laid out, Gabe, or because he's not really capable of understanding and helping her process all of this intense stuff. Like she said, he listens, he gets it, but he just can't resolve this stuff for her. Which is true, but which also might say something about their relationship. I mean, the dude is German, so I don't know. But again, to Gabe's point and not to be too Freud in here, we do tend to seek out partners who mimic and reenact our earliest experiences. And if your parents weren't really connected to you, they weren't available to you. I'm making a few assumptions here, but I do wonder if your partner might share a few of their qualities. And I don't say that to diminish or question your relationship. Not at all. Just to appreciate how a similar dynamic might be showing up with him.

[01:08:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which by the way would be something you both create.

[01:08:58] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like you said, you are the one who often holds back with him. You are not seeking out that intimacy either. So it's not like you're with the wrong person and he's neglecting you and he's exactly like your parents. That's not exactly what we're saying but at a minimum there might be some parallel with mom here.

[01:09:14] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. And hey look, we could be wrong. You'll have to decide if any of this fits. Unfortunately, we got to wrap this up, although I could talk about this for hours. I do think it's worth considering how those two halves of the equation are operating together.

[01:09:26] So I told you at the top that we can't tell you whether to stay in the UK or go back to the States, but here's what I can tell you for sure. Until you really get a handle on this dynamic with your parents, until you separate their wishes for you from your legitimate needs, until you get in touch with those thoughts and feelings that haven't been given much airtime, and until you bring all of that into your close relationships, including the one with your partner, you're probably going to continue to feel depressed and isolated and lost. And you'll continue to be confused about whether you're living the right life. In fact, I can almost guarantee that you'd be having the same questions if you move back to the states tomorrow. In fact, they might even be stronger knowing that you gave up on this guy and this life to appease your mother.

[01:10:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[01:10:06] Because yes, you obviously want to decide whether the US or the UK or any other country is the right home for you. But what really matters is, and insert sort of The More You Know soundtrack here, it's the home you make in yourself.

[01:10:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Nice. That does sound a little bit like a decorated wall sign at Bed, Bath, and Beyond.

[01:10:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

[01:10:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: But you're right. You're right.

[01:10:25] Jordan Harbinger: I know. It's unfortunately true. And making a home in yourself means being in touch with all this stuff, getting clearer on what you want. And this will come as a surprise to absolutely no one but if you need some help there, I absolutely recommend — wait for it — getting into therapy. That would be a great experience for you right now. I think it would be a real source of support and insight while you sort through this stuff. Find a good one. Start talking especially about mom and dad, which is where most of this stuff starts. This closeness is interesting and I wonder if you need to negotiate it a little, and I know it'll help you find the path you're looking for.

[01:10:58] And if you need some help finding someone, you all know, I always recommend Better Help. Tons of our listeners are having just a really great experience with them. Betterhelp.com/jordan to get started. Hang in there. Things might be bumpy, but it doesn't mean you're making a mistake. It just means you're growing. We're sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best.

[01:11:16] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much, especially Benjamin Gibbs. Thanks for sticking with us for so long. Means a lot. Super pumped to have you in the show, fam. Go back and check out Alastair Smith, two-parter if you haven't yet.

[01:11:29] If you want to know how I managed to book all these guests for the show. It's about my network. It's a gross word, but it's a great habit to get into our set of habits to get into. Our Six-Minute Networking course is free on the Thinkific platform, jordanharbinger.com/course. Build relationships before you need them. Dig the well before you get thirsty, folks. jordanharbinger.com/course, it's changed my personal life and my business. I'm definitely happy to share all of it with you. It takes just a few minutes a day. And it's great for introverts, you don't have to go do extrovert stuff. You can just sit at home and do it all online.

[01:12:00] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, discounts, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please go try the chatbot at jordanharbinger.com/ai and see if you can break it. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram, @GabrielMizrahi, or Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.

[01:12:24] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we've rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[01:12:57] Are you a part of the 45 percent of the US population that's totally winging it with no savings? Well, check out this preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Brad Klontz, author of Money Mammoth.

[01:13:07] Brad Klontz: People are making six figures, and then before you know it, they've got a Rolex. They're leasing a Mercedes. They're trying to show the world they've made it. And what's fascinating is people had about 11 million in net worth and we compared them to a group of people that had about $500,000 in net worth. And what we found is that those people with 11 million in net worth, they only spent twice as much on their watch, their house, their car, and their last vacation. They had about 18 times more money. They only spent about twice as much. What's so interesting too, is when times are great in the United States, when things are flush, everybody's optimistic, we save even less. So during COVID, our savings rates shot up into the 20 percent range, which is some of the highest we've ever had in history. Meanwhile, before the great recession, when things were better than they've ever been, our savings rates were a negative half a percent. There's a mismatch there.

[01:14:02] I started day trading out of grad school. I was trying to make a hundred thousand bucks to pay off my student loans. I lost all my money in the tech bubble and I was like, I would a reasonably intelligent person do something so stupid with his money. That was the question I asked myself as a psychologist. I immediately went home and I interviewed my mother and I'm like, "What was it like to be growing up around money?" I'm realizing, oh my gosh, this is me. Like I'm playing out whatever's happened in my family, we are all clueless, playing out a script that may have been developed by your great grandparents, and here you are thinking that you're in the situation because of your own self. No, no, no. You're playing out a pattern in your family.

[01:14:35] If you're struggling with money, look into your past, become an anthropologist. Study your family. Ask family members for stories, what it was like for them growing up, because that's how we're going to end up playing it out in our own lives.

[01:14:46] Jordan Harbinger: If you want to undo some bad programming around money, check out episode 712 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[01:14:55] Special thanks to Peloton for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[01:14:59] This episode is also sponsored by the Young and Profiting podcast with Hala Taha. Looking for a new, riveting, and informative podcast. Look no further. Check out Young and Profiting. This is a frequently ranked number-one entrepreneurship podcast. We're duking it out over there. Young and Profiting is all about listening, learning, inspiring, and of course profiting. Each week, Hala investigates a new self-improvement topic and interviews some of the brightest minds in the world who are experts in that topic. A good life comes from good choices, but good choices come from experience, good or bad. Go ahead and subscribe to Young and Profiting if you want to benefit from the motivational insights and powerful experiences their guests have had. Hala interviews many entrepreneurs and experts in their field, and she does sort of homework. She learned it from me. Actually, I'm going to take a little bit of credit for that. She does a lot of research. She asks in-depth questions and YAP provides resources and tools that can be applied to everyone. Hala really is a little hustler. I've been friends with her for a long time. Subscribe to YAP, Young and Profiting podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.