508: Shaking an Unsuitable Stalking Suitor | Feedback Friday

Shaking an Unsuitable Stalking Suitor | Feedback Friday (Episode 508)

Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan harbinger. Today, I'm here with my Feedback Friday producer, my accomplice in solace, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening even inside your own mind. 

[00:00:35] If you're new to the show on Fridays, we give advice. We answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. And if you're joining us for the first time, check out jordanharbinger.com/start. We've got some starter packs which are collections of favorite episodes, organized by popular topics to help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. jordanharbinger.com/start. 

[00:01:04] This week on the show we had Tim Grover. This guy is next level. He was a trainer or is a trainer to the great Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant. I mean, this is the guy that they call when no other trainer will get them to the next level and keep them there. So the intensity is really something else. You get a peek inside at what these guys have to do to stay at the top level, very popular episode. He's been on the show before, which is just great amounts of feedback from all y'all. So we had him back with his new book. 

[00:01:33] We also had Robert Cialdini this week, another absolute powerhouse. This guy is the OG, he wrote the original book on influence. So this is anything you've heard, like law of reciprocity or persuasion, Pre-Suasion. This is the guy who originated the concepts, wrote about the concept. So all this stuff we kind of take for granted now in the social psychology space that we think like, "Oh, I've heard of this." This is the guy who pioneered all of that. He's got a new edition of his book. We go over a lot of it here on the show this week. So really great stuff for you this week. Go back and check those out if you haven't yet.

[00:02:04] I also write every so often on our blog and the latest post is called the right way to get your foot in the door. I really enjoyed writing this one. In this piece, I talk about the most common mistakes that employees, freelancers, vendors, really anybody trying to pitch themselves, the most common mistakes that they make when they talk to prospective employers, how to approach these conversations in a way that dramatically increases your chances of actually securing a job or a piece of business. It's all about how to figure out what somebody needs before you try to sell them on what you want. And this is gold for anyone trying to create a job for themselves, or make it as a freelancer, or just increase their earnings in general. As you can imagine, I get pitched every day, multiple times for multiple things. Some emails get deleted immediately. Other stuff gets entertained and other people get hired. So that's a post you're going to want to read. If you're interested in any of that. That's at jordanharbinger.com/articles.

[00:02:59] Make sure you've had a look and to listen to everything we created for you here this week. By the way, if you want to get some advice from us here on the show, you can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. And if you can include the state and country that you live in, that helps us give you even more detailed advice. So if there's something you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or you just need a new perspective on stuff, life love, work, how to move on if you've seriously hurt people in the past. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. 

[00:03:36] All right, Gabe. What's the first thing out of the mailbag? 

[00:03:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan and Gabe, my sister recently caught her boyfriend cheating on her. In response to her catching him, he beat her up, thankfully, not too severely. She called the police and filed the proper paperwork to ensure that he cannot come near her legally again. But in typical psychopath fashion, this guy has made threats to her saying that he will "make sure your car will never run again" and that she will "regret fucking with me." 

[00:04:00] Jordan Harbinger: Scary dude.

[00:04:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: And how he is going to use his current medical problems as false evidence to make her seem like the bad guy. He even told the police that she attacked him first, which was a total lie. She came to me asking for advice to A, ensure that he does not do anything to her property. And if he does that, there's a way he can be held responsible. And B, to make sure that he does not do anything to her ever again. Do you guys have any options for her to better protect herself? My sister has always been there to protect me and I'd really like to be able to help her now. Thanks, Team. Nothing but love. Signed, The Sentinel Sibling. 

[00:04:32] Jordan Harbinger: This is terrifying, man. It scares me that people like this are just out there and you think like, "Oh, they're going to be fun to date." And then they just turn out to be nightmares people that try and make your life a living hell. So it's really scary. I'm so sorry. You're dealing with this. I'm really sorry that your sister's in this situation. I can only imagine how traumatizing having an ex like this must be, but I am glad that she took out a restraining order. That's actually a really important step that a lot of people, they don't do, they don't want to bother with it. They think it's too complicated or that it's going to be expensive. I think it's great. She has you watching her back right now. You sound like a solid brother, man. Good for you. 

[00:05:09] So look, if we've learned anything about psychopaths here on the show, through our numerous episodes about this topic, the best thing that you can do is just get as far away from these people as possible. You don't fight back. You don't try to placate or appease them. You don't try to reason with them. You just put as much freaking distance between you and them as humanly possible. So if your sister hasn't already done this, I would cut off all contact with this guy immediately. Block him everywhere. And I know you're probably thinking, "Oh, well, if he can't text her or call her, he's just going to show up." Look, maybe he will, but he might not/probably won't. In most cases, it's these interactions, just the tacit validation of responding to a dangerous personality, that's what gives these people fuel. Deprive them of oxygen and you deprive them of a major source of gratification and opportunity to continue their harassment.

[00:06:03] My second piece of advice for your sister — surprise, surprise, — document everything. I think we should just rename the show document, document, document, because I say that in every freaking Feedback Friday, but it's true. 

[00:06:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Catchy title, yeah. 

[00:06:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it really rolls right off the tongue. Tell your sister to write down all of her interactions with this guy, including his attempts to reach out. Like called me, blocked his number, calling me again, got missed calls, got texts from anonymous number that are probably him because he mentions this. You know, write all of that stuff down. Take screenshots. Write down the phone numbers, the dates, the times the content of the messages. Like I said, screenshots of the texts, any DMs, any posts, especially if they're threatening, but even if they're not. A lot of people make the mistake of only documenting things where the guy says, "I'm going to screw up your car," and then they don't document the other texts. And the problem is that might then look like you're hiding you talking with him. But if you can show, you're not talking with him and he, every day 15 times, is sending you some crazy crap. It really paints a picture of how insane/dangerous this guy is. 

[00:07:04] And if it's possible, and if it's legal in her state, she'll have to check, you check the wiretapping laws. I would also try to record any conversations that she has with this guy outside of what she manages to block. So if she has tape of this guy threatening her on the phone or in front of her house, yelling and screaming, kind of the — what's that? Kind of like the evil version of High Fidelity. Is that the movie where Cusack is outside with the boombox?

[00:07:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, that's Say Anything, but yeah, it's the same actor. 

[00:07:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, same actor or whatever. I can't remember. But yeah, the boombox — like that kind of recording video or audio, that can be enough for law enforcement to A, take her reports more seriously. B, discount any claim he makes that she's the aggressor here. Because it's going to be real hard for him to go, "Yeah, she attacked me." "What were you doing? Standing on a lawn." I wasn't." "Oh, cool, well, we have audio of you doing that exact thing and it's GPS tagged." Because she recorded a GPS tagged video on her phone, whatever it is. 

[00:07:59] In terms of physical security, I would definitely get some cameras, install them around her property. You can get those cheap Wi-Fi cameras. Those are fine. Obviously, wired are better, but they're more expensive and more of to-do to install. He might tear them down, but then that's caught on camera too. If they're recording to the cloud. And as a backup, here's something that I personally thought was kind of clever as a backup. I might also ask her neighbors. If you can add cameras to their houses facing your sister's house. Now, that's a weird request, but I think if neighbors kind of know what's going on, they might be more apt to do that. A lot of criminals, they think they're pretty clever cutting off camera feeds or they bring a Wi-Fi blocker that they got off eBay, but they almost never think about whether a neighbor has cameras facing the other house. Right? Mostly you're monitoring your own house. Rarely does your neighbor have cameras pointing across the street at your house. 

[00:08:48] And alerting your neighbors that she has a dangerous ex. This is important too. I've realized, man, the conversations it's embarrassing. "So I dated a psycho. He beat me up, I've got a restraining order. He says he's going to come back and hurt me. Can you keep an eye out?" You know, that's not something anybody wants to do, but it's more awkward to be dead or seriously injured or have other problems because you have a psycho on your tail. I'm not trying to scare you but just being real. If she were ever in a dangerous position and couldn't get to a phone or she didn't notice this guy sneaking onto her property in the first place — I hope that never happens but you really do have to plan for these crazy things. The neighbors could be on the lookout and call the police for her. And that's key. It could save her life. 

[00:09:28] Look, if I saw somebody climbing the fence of my neighbor's house, I might think, "Huh? That's weird. But you know, they have kids. It's probably no big deal." But if that neighbor said, "By the way, some crazy person has been bothering us." And I saw someone climbing the fence, I would immediately dial 911. Or if someone's looking at the car in the driveway, I'd probably think, "Oh, that's kind of weird. I don't recognize that person," but I wouldn't do anything. But if they said, "Look, someone's been threatening us. And then I see somebody checking out their car in the driveway." I'm calling the cops. So this is key. This could save her life. 

[00:09:57] Another solution, I highly recommend looking at getting SimpliSafe for your sister. I know this is a shameless plug on my part, but they really are a top-notch home security company. I'm a huge fan of their glass break sensors and cameras. Plus, what I like about it is they use a cellular connection to call the police. So if your Wi-Fi goes down, not the end of the world, your landline goes down. I think that the monitoring, it just includes the cell phone. You don't have to get like a cell phone plan. It's clutched. Go to simplisafe.com/jordan for the discount. Again, I feel awkward plugging that it's going to be linked in the show notes. But if there's ever an appropriate time to link psychopath stalker exes with one of our show sponsors, this is definitely it. 

[00:10:36] Also, you could just tase his ass to taser.com promo code Jordan for 15 percent off. I mean, honestly, I started that as a joke, but now not that we're trying to capitalize on your unfortunate situation here, I guess now I'm just realizing how many anti-stalker sponsors we have here on the show. 

[00:10:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: We have on the show, totally. 

[00:10:54] Jordan Harbinger: taser.com promo code Jordan for 15 percent off. By the way, I take all of these measures in my own life as well, including with my social media. Not just because I have a stalker. Well, I'm not even famous enough for a stalker. But because one time, I used Foursquare, one time a decade ago, and somebody showed up to where I was and it was so creepy. I think I've told—

[00:11:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh no way. What happened? 

[00:11:16] Jordan Harbinger: Maybe I haven't told him on the show. I installed the app and I was like, "Oh, cool. You check in. And you can get like discounts." And I was in New York. I think New York was kind of a hotspot for Foursquare. And I was in like a tech circle. So I installed it. I checked into some bar. I can't remember what it was and a guy showed up and he wasn't weird at all. Like he was a pretty normal guy, a guy that I'd met before as well. And I go, "How did you know that we're here?" And he goes, "Oh, Foursquare." And I was like, "You know, you can join us. Of course, you know, no problem." But then I thought, wow, I got like a very solid first education as to not having any privacy. And it's like, "Okay, that guy found out where we were. No problem. Join us for a drink." But if you have a stalker psycho ex or if you are any sort of public figure or a single female, you just might not want to tell people where you're going to be for the next three hours beforehand. It's just not a good look. 

[00:12:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good call, good call.

[00:12:08] Jordan Harbinger: So that's my high level advice we wanted to get deeper here. So we consulted with George Grant. He's an executive security manager at a Fortune 40 company that you've all heard of. He's also a friend of the show. George has run personal protection for high-net-worth families. So he really knows his stuff when it comes to security. And when I say this, I mean, he's protected people that you and I read about in the news, like every day, minimum once a week.

[00:12:31] So George offered a few other amazing pieces of advice. First, he recommends that your sister vary her routine as much as possible, especially from what her ex-boyfriend knows about her. Her goal right now is to evade his ability or destroy or damage his ability to know where she will be and when, hence the Foursquare thing. So George calls that your time and place predictability. What she'll avoid is unwanted contact when she's out around town or his ability to go to her home when she is not there. George also recommends limiting social media posts for a little while, posting about the events hours after the fact, kind of like we talked about. Don't post before, post after. You don't want him to be able to track her in real time, like the Foursquare incidents.

[00:13:16] Also, maybe don't let people know that you go to yoga every Friday, even if you're doing so kind of on social media by accident, I would probably even delete all those apps a little while. Just make your accounts totally private. Make sure you don't location sharing on Google. Make sure he didn't turn that stuff on, on different apps while you weren't looking at your phone, you know, three, six months ago. Make sure she's not accepting any random friend requests. All that stuff is always helpful. Because a lot of stalkers will just make a fake profile and be like, "Yeah, I'm friends with your cousin." "Oh, cool, whatever." And it's them, you know, just trying to monitor your stuff. 

[00:13:49] On the physical security front, double check that all of her windows can't be easily opened, especially and obviously from the outside, lock them. Put a slider block in them. Gabriel, did you have to do this? In Michigan, we used to have to put like a broomstick that we sought off inside some of these slider windows. 

[00:14:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep, totally. 

[00:14:06] Jordan Harbinger: So George also recommends getting a system like simplest safe. So he brought them up too. It's not just being in such as me being a shameless self-promoter here. He would definitely include that glass sensor feature because if he can't slide the window open, he's just going to break it. 

[00:14:20] Now, if this guy ever does make contact and you and your sister need to call the police, George recommends doing so without a warning or threatening him. Warnings, they cost valuable time. That's all they do, really. In the event that he calls or shows up, tell your sister to be clear and concise. Let him know that she does not want him to contact her again and then end the call. Don't hang up abruptly or, you know, F you and drop the handle down that could just antagonize him. Definitely though, do not invite any additional conversation. 

[00:14:53] And George also recommends trying not to be alone too much unnecessarily. I know that's hard, but if she ever needs to, your sister should walk home or to her car with a friend or a colleague, she should also try to work midday shifts, not open shifts early in the morning, or closed shifts late at night. The reason being that you are the most vulnerable when you first arrive at a place or just before you depart. And that's good advice for everyone here, whether you've got a stalker or not. 

[00:15:18] Another smart policy George recommended, establish a check-in window with a close friend. So let's say maybe you and your sister have a system where your text will be returned or thumbs up or whatever within 30 minutes, just so you know she's okay. All things considered. George told us that most abusive partners, they tend to attack the lowest hanging fruit. They'll use the spare key under the mat that you think he doesn't know about, or they'll meet you at the daycare pickup when you're going to get your kid because he knows that's where you're going to be and when you're going to be there. Or he'll run into you at the froyo shop, you just checked into on freaking Facebook or Yelp. 

[00:15:51] If you're a harder target, their fixation typically dies off pretty fast, which is really encouraging news. And I know we've seen a lot of movies where you just can't shake someone. Psychopaths, really aggressive stalkers and dangerous personalities, they get excitement from the chase. And if you make that really hard. They actually don't really want to do a lot of work. They want to scare you. They don't really want to bust their ass to do it. 

[00:16:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: It just gets too difficult. Great advice from George all around. We also want it to get a legal perspective on your sister's situation. So we chatted with — you know, who it is, Corbin Payne, top-notch defense attorney and friend of the show. And Corbin, he seconded everything Jordan just said. He also pointed out that if your sister has a restraining order against this guy or if she actually brought criminal charges of domestic assault against him already, then he'll have a bond condition that says that he cannot contact her. He cannot be around her. So if either of those two things is in place, he's already probably violated them. And that right there, that is grounds for immediate arrest and maybe even new charges. So Corbin's advice, unsurprisingly is this, if your sister's ex ever makes any contact whatsoever call the police ASAP. Obviously, that's the best thing to do. It's best if these interactions are documented, but they don't have to be when she calls them, she should just tell them about any restraining orders or any bond conditions. And she should specifically, and of course, truthfully, I mean, she shouldn't make this up, but if this is the case, she should say that she is scared and that she believes this guy's threats.

[00:17:17] Corbin's last piece of advice, get a physical copy of that restraining order or that bond conditioned paperwork. Your sister can get that either from the clerk's office for that court or from the prosecutor's office if it's a bond condition. Leave a copy with all the law enforcement agencies in your sister's town or county. Corbin also recommends leaving a copy with the county 911 dispatch center. I thought that was very clever. That way if there's any reason to call the police on this guy in the future, you would be dealing with an officer who can very quickly realize that this guy is in clear violation of court order and subject to arrest pretty much on the spot. Doing that would also show the police that your sister is more on the ball about this than probably 98 percent of people who file assault charges. And it will underscore to them how serious she is about this guy's threat to her safety. 

[00:18:00] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That all makes sense. I know it's a lot of legwork, but in a situation like this, it's a hundred percent worthwhile and I'm really sorry to hear your sister's going through this man. It's disturbing, you know, for both of you, I'm sure, but you sound like a really great siblings. You're lucky to have each other. Take care of her. Take care of yourself. Follow all this advice if you can. And I think your sister's going to sleep a little more soundly at night. We hope that just in another month, this guy just gets frustrated and annoyed or gets himself into even deeper trouble and that he just goes away, crossing our fingers here for that. Good luck.

[00:18:33] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. 

[00:18:38] This episode is sponsored by Better Help online therapy. And May is mental health awareness month. And throughout June, The Jordan Harbinger Show is proud to join the cause of destigmatizing therapy. I'm really a fan of therapy. If you're struggling with relationships, you haven't difficulty sleeping, difficulty meeting your goals, you feel anxious, stressed, or you just want to make sure you're not going crazy because it is that kind of year. Better Help counselors can listen and help. They'll assess your needs, match you with a professional. You start communicating in a couple of days. Therapists have a broad range of experience. It's available worldwide. So it doesn't matter if you're in Taiwan or Tecumseh, you can get it. Log into your account anytime. Send a message to your counselor. You can schedule a weekly video phone or even live chat sessions if you're more of a typer than a sucker. Better Help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches. So they make it easy and free to change counselors if needed. It's certainly more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available. 

[00:19:32] Jen Harbinger: Our listeners get 10 percent off your first month of online therapy at betterhelp.com/jordan. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan. 

[00:19:40] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by LifeLock. A recent survey showed couples share a variety of passwords within the first six months of dating, which is a terrible idea. Sharing passwords with a significant other may put you at risk if the relationship ends or frankly, if it doesn't. Your ex may still have access to your login information, be tracking your location, or access more than you intended if you use the same password for multiple accounts. That's a little scary. It's important to understand how cybercrime and identity threats are affecting our lives. And everyday we put our information at risk on the Internet or in the head of your significant other. In an instant, a cybercriminal or crazy ex could harm what's yours, your finances, your credit, your reputation. LifeLock helps detect a wide range of identity threats, like your social security number for sale on the dark web, or maybe your browser history, just saying. If they detect your information has potentially been compromised, they'll send you an alert. You have access to a dedicated restoration specialist if you do become a victim. 

[00:20:36] Jen Harbinger: No one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But you can keep what's yours with LifeLock by Norton. Join now and save up to 25 percent off your first year at lifelock.com/jordan, that's lifelock.com/jordan for 25 percent off.

[00:20:53] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Manscaped. Manscaped offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels. Manscaped just launched their Fourth Generation Trimmer. They just keep improving this thing, the Lawn Mower 4.0. You heard that right? The 4.0. Imagine shaving with a sleek well-designed and optimized trimmer that makes shaving time your favorite in the bathroom. That's a tough competition going on in there. I'm one of the first people to try the new 4.0. I am really blown away by the performance. The craftsmanship, the details are truly next level for any gonad trimmer. Manscaped engineered the ultimate groin and body trimmer by focusing on intelligent functionality and an incredibly comfortable grooming experience. Fourth-generation tremor of course includes the cutting edge ceramic blade — see what I did there — to reduce grooming accidents, thanks to their advanced SkinSafe technology. The last thing you want is to dull blade, because dull blades pull and I'm just going to leave that right there. So you want the ceramic sharpness. The lawn Mower 4.0 even allows you to customize your trim through an additional guard length with sizes one through four. Just in case you want to— what is it called when you like shave the trees and the bushes into shapes like dinosaurs and stuff like that? You could do that. And if you do. I kind of want to know about it, but I don't really want to see it. Anyway, now is a great time to check that out by going to manscaped.com/jordan 20 percent off and free worldwide shipping, manscaped.com/jordan. 

[00:22:14] Jen Harbinger: Unlock your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with Manscaped. 

[00:22:18] Jordan Harbinger: And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:22:23] All right, what's next. 

[00:22:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I've been an artist for 10 years now, and my fiance's now quitting her job to be a full-time artist, too. I'm introducing her to galleries, helping her avoid mistakes that I made, and generally helping to optimize her learning curve. However, many of my friends, both married and divorced are advising me not to work with her saying that it will destroy the romance. We'll always talk about work instead of being in the moment together, stuff like that. I'm optimistic as we spent a lot of time building our business model and have strong communication, but I'd like to be prepared for any challenges. Seeing Jordan works with Jen, I thought you might have some advice on how to work together while protecting our spark. I love my fiance very much, and I don't want to be caught between our relationship and her dream. Signed, Surviving The Weather of Working Together.

[00:23:06] Jordan Harbinger: Great question. When Jen and I started working together years ago, a lot of people told us the same thing. "Oh, working together as a huge mistake. It's going to ruin your relationship," but it actually turned out not to be the case at all. In fact, it was very much the opposite. But it is true working from home with your partner in close quarters, I think it can get a little tricky sometimes. I think a lot of times also if you hire somebody in your family that isn't your significant other, it can cause a lot of problems. And so people tend to impute those same difficulties onto working with your significant other like, "Oh, I hired my sister-in-law and she was a nightmare. And I couldn't fire her because she's family." That's not necessarily going to be the same case with your significant other, with whom you have better communication. The other good news here is that it's not like you're working directly together or in a situation where one of you was the boss, the superior, you're just two freelance artists working side-by-side at home. And there might be some hiccups here and there, but I doubt this setup is going to create any sort of minefield of issues for you guys. 

[00:24:03] So, first of all, you're right, good communication is everything because there's going to be times when you guys disagree or you get on each other's nerves or you stumble into some conflict. And if you have the tools to talk it out, listen, understand where the other person is coming from, resolve whatever's going on, then you guys are going to be fine, maybe stronger even. The goal here isn't to never fight. The goal is to fight consciously and productively. And maybe that's something you guys can talk about together in advance. What steps to follow if either of you gets worked up or hits a wall. But honestly, I'm not too worried about this piece. It sounds like you guys are pretty in sync. 

[00:24:39] On a more practical level, Jen and I have definitely learned some great lessons by working together. For one thing, I certainly think it's important for each of you to have good boundaries around your work. And that could show up in a few ways. For example, if your wife is the kind of artist who works around the clock, and you're more of a nine to five guy, and you just work with view breaks in between that could create some friction. So I would pay attention to the way your schedules affect each other. And you might want to be able to say, "Hey honey, I'm putting down the brush now going to make dinner, reset my brain, no more painting for me today. I don't want to think about it anymore." And then not feel guilty or lazy if you don't keep working, or if you don't pitch in while your wife keeps going. 

[00:25:17] And that is super important when one person in a couple is a workaholic or keeps different hours. It's also important for both of you to protect the time you need to protect. If you want to carve out time for yourself in the morning to exercise or block out time in the evening to just watch TV or whatever, Netflix or whatever, know that it's okay to do that. And it's okay for your wife to do the same. Just because you're both artists working from home doesn't mean you have to work in the exact same way. 

[00:25:42] Now for me, I work all day often into the evening. Jen knows not to bug me with random tasks at 8:00 p.m. just because she happens to have time after Jaden is asleep ever. I get irrationally frustrated if I finished work at 7:30 or 8:00 p.m., I turned on the TV and then at 9:30, Jen's like, "Hey, can you look at the spreadsheet and see—" I just get crazy annoyed because I've got like one to two hours per day where I can watch a documentary or something. And somebody takes me out of relaxed mode to ask me something work-related that could have been asked in the previous 14 freaking hours. That just adds up and those grievances can really take a toll. So you have to be clear about this type of stuff before somebody gets stabbed for leaving the cap off the toothpaste or whatever. You got to handle these little things because they will add up. 

[00:26:32] Normally, if you have little issues at work, you leave the office, you come home, they're gone. If you're working from home and everybody that you work with is in your apartment and they're also your significant other, it's harder to leave stuff behind. 

[00:26:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. 

[00:26:45] Jordan Harbinger: You have to compartmentalize better, you know?

[00:26:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, man, I'm taking notes here for when there's somebody else in my apartment while I'm sitting at my computer, mumbling dialogue to myself. It's so much easier when you work alone, you don't have to think about any of this stuff. 

[00:26:57] Jordan Harbinger: True. 

[00:26:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, look, my only other advice is this, since both of you guys are now full-time artists, I would be prepared for the emotional aspect of this career because as I'm sure you guys know, being an artist, super volatile. Some months, you're in flow and you're crushing it and you're on top of the world. And other months, you're just totally lost and you're struggling and you're hating it. And you're wondering why you didn't go to business school. Sorry, getting a little personal here. 

[00:27:20] Jordan Harbinger: Okey dokey.

[00:27:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: The cycles, they can last for years. In some cases, you know, maybe your wife's career takes off and yours limps along for a little while, or maybe you have a great run and hers tanks for a few months. That happens. You and your wife's wins, they might not always line up perfectly. In fact, in all likelihood, they probably won't always line up perfectly and that can put a strain on even the best relationships. So I would just be aware of that going in. Maybe you guys can talk about how you plan to write out those inevitable ups and downs, how you want to take care of each other when one or both of you starts to struggle a little bit. And that's another boundary, that'll be really important for you guys to keep an eye on. You know, not taking on too much of each other's stress or anxiety or depression when one of you hits a rough patch or letting the other person's success, infect your feelings about your own work. That can happen too. It goes both ways. 

[00:28:08] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, good one. Gabe, I have to think this applies to entrepreneurial couples too, or couples who work in the same industry or the same job, really anyone who's doing something similar to their partner, especially during the pandemic, when everyone's on top of each other. That's when you really start comparing yourself to the person who's sitting next to you all day. And that can get really, really tricky. 

[00:28:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, yeah, definitely, because art, entrepreneurship, owning your own business, these careers can be brutal sometimes. And then you see somebody crush their sales for a month and you go, "What's wrong with me? Like, what am I missing? Like, am I doing something wrong?" Just because the person happens to be having an up month. 

[00:28:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yeah. Like "I was happy with me being slightly above you in terms of success and productivity. Like, what are you doing? You're upending the natural order of things."

[00:28:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, how we feel about our work that can shift on a dime if you're looking around and trying to compare yourself to the nearest person, but it's even more turbulent when the person we're comparing ourselves to is sitting right there in the same room. Plus we live with them. Plus we love them. Plus their opinion really matters to us. So yeah, complicated. 

[00:29:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, super complicated. That's why the communication aspect is so crucial because if this guy's wife starts killing it on Etsy or whatever, and he starts, "By the way, did you see? They had like a $10 billion year," but anyway, that's neither here nor there. She starts killing it on Etsy and he starts feeling envious or competitive or insecure. Fine. That is normal. That is okay. But they then have to be able to talk about it. And that goes for the small stuff too, the petty stuff. You know, like the music they listen to while they work. Her annoying ass ringtone that goes off all the time or the phone is not on silent or the way he talks to himself while he works. All these weird things you discover about somebody when you start working with them. You almost have to go overboard and communicating, so no resentment builds up. Maybe you guys block out 20 minutes at the end of every day for the first couple months. Give that stuff some airtime, make sure nothing gets swept under the rug. 

[00:29:53] And you guys will then figure out what level of communication you need. You might fall into a naturally, really good rhythm and only need to have a meeting about home office stuff over dinner once a week. Who knows? Also, honest, suggestion, get yourself some AirPods, get each other some AirPods, the pro ones so can't hear her hum to her music. And she can, I can't hear your annoying ass mouth noises. I'm serious. Those noise-canceling headphones will pay for themselves just with that. 

[00:30:21] But honestly, I think you guys got this, you sound like a very supportive husband. She sounds like a very open person. I love that you're looking out for her and the health of your relationship, your marriage. I think you guys are going to be great. Just know that there will be bumps in the road and it's all good as long as you have a way to work them out together before somebody gets stabbed for leaving the cap off the toothpaste. 

[00:30:40] All right, what's next? 

[00:30:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabe. My friend works as a waitress for a major hotel chain in Florida. And recently she's become a victim of sexual harassment in the workplace. She's new at this bar and a senior male bartender has made multiple advances on her, including gross suggestive comments and unwanted touching. The other employees, they see this behavior, but nobody does anything about it. When she raised her concerns to management, she was quickly dismissed for being disruptive and "causing trouble". She was even threatened by a fellow coworker who said, "This won't end well for her," if she continues to complain. Her managers don't want to admit that there's any inappropriate behavior going on. So she went to HR, but they just told her that investigation is taking place in the background and that they can't tell her anything more. Meanwhile, nothing's being done about this guy who harassed her. Worse, she's now being retaliated against, by the managers. She has been taken off bartending shifts where she made good money and reallocated to server shifts on the floor. Well, she will make less money. And her fellow coworkers, they continue to bully her, refusing to work with her during busy shifts, catcalling her and taunting her about snitching. There's at least one other female bartender who's made a similar complaint about the same guy and all the manager did was put her on a different shift. Several other female employees admit that they don't like this particular guy's touching and flirting, but they won't say anything to management for fear of getting taken off of the good shifts too. My friend is super distraught. She's worked for this hotel chain for over seven years with an impeccable record. She really needs the money. And now, I'm afraid for her mental and physical health. She did speak to one lawyer who told her that this kind of retaliation is difficult to prove. And unless the sexual harassment continues on a daily basis, she doesn't have a case. So what should she do? Signed, Taken Down The Creep, Making That Sex on the Beach. 

[00:32:24] Jordan Harbinger: You know, whenever I get questions like this, I just can't believe that this stuff actually happens. Don't get me wrong. I 100-percent believe it, but it's so corny, Gabriel. It's so freaking corny. Like I thought by now, people were wise to the fact that you can get your ass sued into oblivion for this sort of thing. And also that it's just gross and pathetic, but I guess some folks are just slow on the uptake. They haven't been watching the news or something. I'm a little shocked. 

[00:32:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or Florida, maybe— 

[00:32:51] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:32:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: —that explains it. 

[00:32:53] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, maybe, I don't know. Sorry, Florida. I wasn't going to say anything. You know, we got plenty of listeners in Florida that are nice normal people. Let's not be too rude about it, but I am a little shocked that a major hotel chain in this day and age is being so cavalier about a complaint like this. And I get when a small business doesn't take a harassment claim seriously. There's no chain of command. There's no HR. People can get away with a lot more bullshit, but this is happening at like a damn Hyatt or whatever. Ridiculous! I hope this is taking a long time because they're a big bureaucratic company and they move slowly, but still the retaliation, the lack of support, the indifference, it's just unconscionable in my opinion. And by the way, I do not know that it's Hyatt. I just picked a random hotel chain. I probably should not have done that. Sorry, Hyatt. Sorry to Hyatt who will never be sponsoring this show probably ever. That's all right. I'm more of a Hilton guy. 

[00:33:42] So you guys already know what I'm about to say. This is a legal question. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So once again, we consulted with the one and only Corbin Payne, criminal defense lawyer, extraordinaire. Corbin's high-level opinion is that yes, a case like this is in fact hard to prove, but that doesn't mean your friend doesn't have any hope. At this point Corbin's advice is to go over the local HR people's heads and take it straight to corporate. Based on what you've shared, it really does sound like nothing is being done here. And yes, that absolutely carries potential consequences as your friend is finding out. The question is, are consequences worse than the consequences of not taking further action? I know it's kind of traumatizing to show up to a workplace with people who either actively hurt you or just low-key resent you, but that's happening anyway. That ship has sailed.

[00:34:29] So I'm with Corbin here, time to escalate. So how do you do that? Well, first, Corbin recommends trying to gather some hard evidence, check your state's recording laws. If she isn't, what's called a one-party state. And again, these are sort of like wiretapping laws and recording laws that either one party or both parties need to be notified. One-party state, it's good as long as somebody in the conversation knows they're being recorded, she could consider carrying a recorder, even a phone app, just record this gross bartender or coming onto her. And then when she reports it to the manager, her manager's rebuffing her request to protect her, and then maybe even her coworkers bullying her, depending on how noisy the bar is and how close you can get to these people and all that. Yeah, maybe that's not possible, but maybe you do it before open or at close. It's definitely worth considering then you got some solid evidence. 

[00:35:17] Something else your friend and do is contact the equal employment opportunity commission, the EEOC. File a complaint. Now, they might not be able to prove misconduct on the part of your friend's harasser, but they can go after her employer for failing to investigate her complaints and protect her. We'll include links to the EEOC, sexual harassment page and discrimination charge process in the show notes. And I recommend that your friend move quickly on this because she only has 180 days after an incident to file a charge. That might sound like a long time, but you know, time flies when you're dealing with crap like this, and maybe you just don't want to do anything for the first few weeks or months. The limitation on this can be extended by state laws in some cases, but why deal with that? Just get it done. 

[00:35:59] When she files, she should absolutely specify how her complaints resulted in her being moved to a worse shift, and that caused economic damage to her. She's making less money. That should get their attention. The EEOC doesn't expect employers to fire someone merely upon the accusation of misconduct and good, right? I mean, otherwise you could get anybody fired just by making a claim, but it does expect employers to investigate credible accusations and it damn sure expects employers not to engage in retaliatory behavior against the victims of harassment.

[00:36:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Great advice, Jordan, if she's really not getting any traction here, she should be considering all of these other options. They all sound super promising in her case. Corbin also pointed out that your friend has another avenue here, which is to enlist the help of all of these other colleagues. You mentioned in your letter. I mean, how much easier would this be, Jordan, if her coworkers backed her up on these allegations and maybe even told their own stories about this creepy bartender, right? And their fear of management, getting retaliated against all of that. I'm not saying that you should go full Jerry Maguire here and jump up on the bar at the Hyatt resort and spa or wherever this is happening and make a big speech about right and wrong and the nature of evil or anything like that. We understand that these people have to feed themselves at the end of the day. I get it. But a difficult power dynamic too, right? Where their managers are abusive and won't do anything to stop this bartender, but I'm wondering if there's some way that your friend could talk to her coworkers privately maybe, tell them what's been going on with her. Maybe invite them to talk about their experiences, encourage them to stand up to these managers as well. So you can all take away their power together. 

[00:37:30] I know that's intimidating. I get it. But there's real power in numbers. If we've learned anything over the last few years, it's that right? And if you guys can all confront these managers and shame them a little bit about the way that they're behaving, they might be so humiliated/terrified/called out that they'll have to change their tune. And, you know, Jordan, this actually reminds me of your interview with Srdja Popovic, where he talked about the psychology of activism of non-violent activism and how revolutions and businesses. They actually have a lot in common. Your friend might actually want to give that episode a listen, that was episode 448. Srdja's book Blueprint for Revolution, such a great book. I know that what your friend is going through isn't as oppressive as an authoritarian dictatorship, but it's definitely some kind of unjust system and she might find some great methods in there for taking it down in a clever way, in a peaceful way.

[00:38:14] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that book is interesting. Srdja was on the show, as you mentioned, episode 448, and he talked about like, they couldn't really do anything against Slobodan Milošević because he had all the military and police. So they basically just clowned him until people started to realize that they could do something and they get empowered through that. Now, I don't know how you apply that to a sexual harassment sort of case, but it does show you that people in power have vulnerabilities that you can exploit if you are not powerful in the same way. And I think that's a good connection. I definitely recommend that one, especially for people who don't have a ton of resources to fight back. 

[00:38:46] But Gabe, you know, I wonder if everyone at this bar is just like, "Ugh, the last three servers, they just bang the bartender and they got it over with, why can't you just do that? He's the boss's favorite. He makes a lot of money or whatever." Also there's a chance that an employment attorney would take this type of case on contingency. She should consider that if she ends up leaving. They'll file a suit and they'll likely settle, they'll take 30, 40 percent of the settlement. That's one of those you don't pay unless you win situations. If nothing else works, I'd seriously consider talking to an attorney, a contingency attorney. The facts here are pretty stark. And if none of these other options work, this is what litigation is for. 

[00:39:24] And if she goes to an attorney, an employment lawyer and says I'm being sexually harassed at work. And then I got moved to the worst shift is retaliation. He's going to go, "Well, the trick is always to prove that it happened," and you go, "Bam! I've got tape of him hitting on me. I've got tape of me reporting it to my manager and him not giving a crap. And then I've got tape of my coworkers saying you're just causing trouble." That's good stuff. That doesn't mean it's going to hold up in court. It doesn't have to be the boss, the employer, the chain's just going to go, "Here's a few grand for your lost wages. And the fact that you got put on the worst shift, just go away and don't tell anyone." That's what they like to do with this kind of thing. They have policies all about this. This is not their first rodeo if they're a major hotel chain. 

[00:40:06] In a few months, if they're still not doing anything about this, then I would seriously consider finding a job at a different hotel. She doesn't have to stay in a toxic abusive environment just to prove something. And she can always keep pushing for justice even after she leaves. She can still sue even if she gets a new job. She's entitled to recoup the money she lost by getting taken off Friday evening and put on Tuesday breakfast or whatever. At a certain point, though, you have to protect your mental and physical health. So good luck. We're rooting for her, a really unfair crappy situation. 

[00:40:37] This is The Jordan Harbinger Show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. 

[00:40:42] This episode is sponsored in part by MasterClass. With MasterClass, you can learn from the world's best minds, many that were also guests on The Jordan Harbinger Show, anytime, anywhere at your own pace. I like to watch mine at 2X speed because, well, I already talk about 2X speed. You can learn how to improve your negotiating techniques from former FBI hostage negotiator, Chris Voss, who's been on the show. You'll learn how to mirror behavior and how that helps him negotiate. Or even learn comedy from Steve Martin, who has not yet been on the show. Steve, what are you doing? It's about developing jokes, crafting a comedic persona, and nailing your delivery. It's like you're sitting in on an exclusive workshop with Steve Martin himself. There's a 74-page workbook with assignments and further reading. So it's not just like him chit chatting about comedy and then you're done. There's also two of Martin's original scripts in there. MasterClass has over a hundred different classes with a wide range of world-class instructors. The thing you always wanted to do is close with anything. 

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[00:41:50] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Nuun. What would you do if you had more energy, unlock your potential with Nuun energy, a refreshing new alternative to the average energy drink. Nuun energy is the future of energy drinks. A carefully formulated blend of invigorating ingredients to jumpstart your day. What makes Nuun energy different from every other energy drink out there is the details. Only two grams of sugar, four grams of carbs, clean ingredients, non-GMO, vegan, gluten-free, all that fancy stuff, high potency B vitamins and organic ginseng. Caffeine from organic green tea, not a freaking laboratory. So you feel energized and not jittery. Plus it's packed with electrolytes to keep you hydrated while you do your thing. It's also in tablet form. This is the part that I actually really dig. It's a fizzy tablet system, right? You just take the dry tablet, throw it in any water. It turns your water and does a quick pick-me-up. So it's good for airplanes and stuff like that instead of drinking like styrofoam cup coffee. Convenient, easy to grab tubes, is what it comes packed in. And four delicious flavors, watermelon burst, berry blast, tropical punch, and ginger lime zing. 

[00:42:50] Jen Harbinger: To discover what Nuun energy can do for you, visit N-U-U-N.life/jordan and use code Jordan for 20 percent off your first order. 

[00:42:59] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also brought to you in part by Hyundai. They questioned everything in order to create the best Tucson ever. Every inch of the all-new Tucson has been completely re-imagined resulting in an SUV loaded with available innovations, both inside and out. From design to technology to safety, every aspect of the new Tucson has been improved upon. Hyundai's digital key allows you to transform your smartphone into a spare key. I would use this constantly because I don't want to have to carry extra keys. Half the time, I can't even find my wallet. It's just one less thing to remember. LED daytime running lights are stylishly hidden within the cascading front grill, making them invisible when not in use, which is a pretty cool set. Multiple user profiles. My wife is five feet tall. If I wear the right shoes, I'm close to six feet. And as long as I wake up in the morning and I'm taller, right? You're taller in the morning. I love that I can hop in and have the seat, mirrors, climate control, radio presets, all personalized for me. The SUV has been completely redesigned inside and out to create the best Tucson ever. Learn more at hyundai.com. 

[00:43:58] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and/or services? You can always visit jordanharbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.

[00:44:16] All right, what's next?

[00:44:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, my rental property has neighbors who are a nuisance to my tenants. I'm losing money because my tenants don't want the hassle of their weekend parties. I feel like this would be fairly simple to deal with via a local authority complaint, but the tenants don't want the bother. And with me not living on the property, I can't document the incidents as required. I cannot be the only person dealing with this problem. As my first rental property, it's really knocked my confidence in building a portfolio. What bothers me even more is that wherever I buy a property, this could happen again. It could happen to anyone really. So how do I deal with us? Signed. An Aspiring Mogul Feeling, pretty Woeful. 

[00:44:54] Jordan Harbinger: What a bummer, annoying neighbors, got to be up there with the worst kind of most annoying things that you can't do much about. Annoying neighbors getting in the way of your business even worse, super uncool might have to go a little gangster on them. Since I'm still a relatively new homeowner in this area, figuring out the whole real estate thing. I mean, I've owned my own home for a while, but I don't rent out properties. So I wanted to reach out to an expert. I reached out to Brandon Turner, VP of creative content over at BiggerPockets, host of the BiggerPockets podcast, bestselling author. I wanted to get his take here. Brandon is an active real estate investor. He's been investing in real estate for a decade and a half. So he knows what he's talking about. 

[00:45:31] Brandon's take was basically that there isn't a ton you can do here. People obviously have a right to party at their own house. But you do have some other options at your disposal as well. So first off, if you're all a part of the same HOA, this is actually pretty easy. You can just complain to them, but I'm guessing that's not the case. Of course, you could always call the cops every time the neighbors throw a party and try and get them a noise complaint or two. And that might shut them up. I know it's kind of a Karen move, but sometimes it really is appropriate. And if you do that enough times, maybe they'll learn to keep it quiet just to keep the police off their back. If the neighbor's house is a rental, you could contact their landlord and complain directly. Maybe just talk to them casually, you know, real estate owner to real estate owner. "Hey, look, I don't mean to be difficult, but your tenants are becoming a real problem for me. They're messing with my business now. I'm guessing they're no picnic for you either. They're probably damaging the property if they're having these loud rangers. How can we work together to fix this?" 

[00:46:28] And then you can lean on them to lean on their tenants. Maybe you can even encourage the owner to kick them out when the lease expires or something like that. If that fails, Brandon had another idea. And I got to say, I kind of liked this one. What if you tried to buy the neighbor's property, you could talk to the owner, see if they're interested in selling or get them interested in selling and then just make an offer. And then you would be the landlord and you can kick these crappy neighbors out and expand your real estate portfolio in one fell swoop. And then you'd be managing two properties right next to each other, which is always easier than having houses all over the place, which was kind of an exciting idea.

[00:47:05] Brandon also pointed out right now in most areas, there isn't enough housing. So tenants are having a hard time trying to find a place. So you could always just let your current tenants leave and find new ones. Now, that kind of sucks for them and for you, but you'll probably have no trouble finding somebody new. You could also disclose the neighbor issue to them, to the new tenant in advance, but give them a slight discount on the rent for their trouble. You'd be surprised how much people can put up with, especially in a competitive market like we have today. So for what it's worth, Brandon said, this is what he would probably do.

[00:47:36] And honestly, if it's that tough of a market and your current tenants are really pissed off, and they're saying, "We're going to leave." You can say, "You know what, I've tried everything. I understand if you leave," and they might go, "Uh, we're not really going to leave because we can't and the market sucks. We just wanted you to try to get them to stop." And you could say, "Well, look, I tried and there's nothing I can do. I talked to the landlord. Maybe you should go over there and knock on the door when they have parties or call the cops. Manage it, handle it. You live there." 

[00:48:00] If none of this works and you just want out, you're in luck, the real estate market is now at the highest point in human history, you could always sell, take the money, put it into something else, a new property, another asset class entirely. Grab you some Bitcoin, grab you some dogecoin. Depending on when you're listening to this, that's either a terrible idea or a good one. I take no responsibility for that. Yeah, man, what a mess though? It sucks. 

[00:48:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ugh, that neighbors, the worst solid advice all around. I love the idea of buying the neighbor's house. That is such a boss move.

[00:48:29]Jordan Harbinger:  Yeah, that's some real slumlord sh*t right there though. Like I'm just daydreaming about buying the house of somebody who annoys me and then knocking down their door and they're like, "What did he want?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I own the house. So you're all going to have to leave. I'm going to be doing some upgrades around here and the rent's going to go up. So ta-ta." And I'm pretty sure that that is illegal and not that simple, right? Probably some renter's rights. Like you can't just have them send them packing upon signature, but I can dream.

[00:48:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, you can dream totally. As for the issue of fear, I hear you, I get it. But I wouldn't let this one experience shake your confidence or put you off of real estate completely. Brandon pointed out that this situation is actually not that common. It's not very normal. Most people, they're pretty quiet, but there are problems with every rental, no matter what. That's why Brandon's company actually makes so much money because they solve problems for people in real estate. So as much as you can, I would try to look at this as a learning experience. The next time you buy a property now you'll know to look around at the neighbors, maybe knock on the door and say, "Hi. How's the neighborhood? How you guys are doing?" You know, innocently, just poking around to see if they're going to become a liability down the road and see what other issues they might cause and get out ahead of that problem.

[00:49:32] Brandon, he told us that he once had a property where the neighbors had dogs that barked constantly, and he just couldn't sell this house because of it. He said it really sucked. But he learned a great lesson and now he always checks for barking dogs before buying. And from Brandon's perspective, that's actually the beauty of building a real estate portfolio. Every single time you do it, you get a little bit better. You learn, it gets easier. 10 years from now when you have eight million bucks in net worth and 25 different properties, you're probably not going to be thinking about your first rental with the bad neighbors and the party every weekend. You're going to be glad that the struggle made you better as you sit back on a beach somewhere, accounting all your stocks. 

[00:50:05] Jordan Harbinger: So try to look at it that way. Stay focused on the long game. I think that'll really work out well for you. Good luck. You know, I think I was talking to Brandon, although now I can't remember who it was. And he says that before he buys properties, he rents a conversion van in the area or something and he parks it on the road and he will literally go there in the evening. And just sleep there Friday night, Thursday night, maybe a Saturday night and just see like, is this street full of rangers and drunks and people coming and going and yelling and screaming at two, 3:00 a.m. And if not, it's a good purchase. But he said, he said gave himself some serious trouble. Again, I can't remember if this was Brandon or somebody else. He's caught some streets where the landlord, you know, the person selling the house. It's like, "Oh, it's great. It's all families here. And then he'll park there on a Friday night. And it's just like wall to wall kids, you know, throwing 40 ounces in the middle of the road and smashing them and freaking jumping out of their second story window into the pool, the kiddie pool that they've inflated on the front lawn." And that would be a nightmare scenario to end up getting stuck with a property like that. So a little bit of diligence goes a long way when it comes to these things. Sorry, you're in this situation. 

[00:51:12] All right, last but not least. 

[00:51:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, after procrastinating for a while. I started doing your networking course right before COVID-19 appeared. I put it on pause though. Not expecting the situation to escalate the way it has. And I haven't picked it up since. The truth is I feel lost and a bit awkward about reaching out to people during the pandemic. What changes? What doesn't? I've had a few professional contacts reach out to me to check in and formally during the pandemic. And it has impressed me, but I feel like I struggle to do the same. How do I network during COVID? Signed, Tormented About My Lines in These Unprecedented Times. 

[00:51:45] Jordan Harbinger: You know, we've gotten this question a lot this past year. I can't tell you how many people have written to me being like, "I know I need to be on top of my relationships, but there's something about networking during the pandemic. That just feels so cringe." And I know I get it. There's less shared experience to bond over these days. You can't ask someone about their racquetball game or invite them to mimosas or talk to them about your trip to Barcelona or whatever. So for the last year we've basically been left with super basic communication. How are you feeling? How are you coping? What are you doing to stay safe? That type of thing. And I think we can all agree that this past year it's probably been the loneliest year of our lives for a lot of us. It's sad. It's creepy. It's boring. For some of us it's been full of loss, the pandemic has been rough.

[00:52:27] So on one hand, I totally get why it feels awkward to drop into somebody's DMs and be like, "Hey buddy, how are you doing? How's your dystopian virtual career going? Haven't left the house in 10 months. Cool. I look like Tom Hanks in Castaway. Doing great." But on the other hand, knowing how starved we are for human connection right now, these kinds of check-ins, they're actually more important and more warranted than ever before. It's never been a better time to drop someone a line and say, "Hey, I know this message is a little random, but I'm sitting here in my apartment doing my third Yoga with Adriene class of the day, trying to get through my eighth Zoom meeting. And you just popped into my mind, how are you doing bud? How are you holding up?" By the way, Gabriel, do you know, do you know Yoga with  Adriene?

[00:53:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I actually did one class with somebody recently. 

[00:53:11] Jordan Harbinger: Of course, you do. You know, this is like such a thing. 

[00:53:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's huge. She's like massive now, right? 

[00:53:17] Jordan Harbinger: She must be absolutely raking it in. 

[00:53:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Raking it in, yeah, definitely. It's funny because I actually went back and I think I did two classes and in one of them she was doing just, you know, she's on a mat in front of like a window in some apartment, wherever. I don't know where she records. And then I watched one from like three years later, towards the end of the pendant. And she's like set up in front of this like beautiful pool in this floor to ceiling window. I was like, yeah, this lady is raking it on a YouTube. YouTube is treating her very well right now.

[00:53:44] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Just wait until the end of next year. It's going to be like, "All right, everybody, let's just step out onto our private beach or you know, your balcony wherever you happen to be." She's going to be on like a stretch of open ocean. And there's going to be like a yacht moored in the background, just lazy bobbing up and down as she does downward dog.

[00:53:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Yoga with succession or like this gratitude mantras are really paying off. 

[00:54:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's definitely the gratitude mantras. 

[00:54:07] So the message these days, the how you're doing, the check-in, it means a hell of a lot more than it did a year and a half ago. And that's really the lifeblood of good relationships. So given all that, I actually don't think that networking during COVID is all that different. Yeah, you might open with a different greeting or hop on FaceTime instead of grabbing a macchiato, you pretentious hipsters, but that's just a superficial difference. You're still taking an interest in the other person. You're still finding ways to be held. I don't even know what a macchiato is, but I don't even care. You're still sharing your experience with them. You're developing a relationship. You're just doing it under unusual circumstances. 

[00:54:41] And I would argue that those circumstances, they actually help because before maybe you spent an hour and a half bullsh*tting with somebody about your hobbies or gossiping about your coworkers or getting plastered over brunch. But now, we don't have all of those distractions and all of those pretexts, all we really have is our experiences. What we're going through what we care about, what we want to do with our lives now that the world is starting to open up, depending on what country you're in, you know, the real stuff. And the real stuff is what you actually want to be talking about when you're reaching out to people. The real stuff is what differentiates networking from relationship building.

[00:55:18] And maybe that's part of why it feels a little awkward to you that these conversations are actually so real, but that's because many of them of our interactions are superficial or they're mediated by all this other stuff that isn't actually all that important. And we're just not used to the intimacy of talking to people when we're all stuck at home, riding this thing out. Although I do understand, not wanting to be like, "Hey man, how's it going?" And they're like, "Well, here's the list of all the death and destruction around me." And you're like, "Oh, okay. Kind of bored, but my stock portfolio is crushing it and I'm caught up on Game of Thrones, finally. You know, like you'd have to kind of make sure that everybody's willing to do that deep dive with you. So obviously, yeah, you have to be sensitive about what people are going through. 

[00:55:58] But rather than shy away from that, I say lean into it. Remember that if you meet someone where they are, no matter what they're going through, you cannot go wrong and know that if you appreciate it, when people do that for you, other people are definitely going to appreciate it when you do that for them. And if you need some help making this a routine, get back into Six-Minute Networking. That's why we created this course. It just removes the friction around all the networking and relationship development. jordanharbinger.com/course. Create those systems. Create those tiny habits. They will solve itself because if there's ever a time that we need great relationships it's right now in the middle of a freaking global pandemic.

[00:56:36] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week and everybody else for listening. Thank you very much. I love all of you. Go back and check out the episodes with Tim Grover and Robert Cialdini if you haven't yet. Really good must listen stuff this week. And you know, I never say that especially about my own show, but this stuff really turned out well, even if I do say so myself, so make sure you have a listen to that.

[00:56:56] Don't forget. Six-Minute Networking is at jordanharbinger.com/course. Hope to see you in there. A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts in the show notes. We're recording videos for Feedback Friday, but we're not really putting them up on the YouTube channel. We're sort of experimenting with clips and different guest things right now, but eventually these may end up there, but videos of the interviews are all at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can hit me on LinkedIn. You could find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi. 

[00:57:30] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is amazing and includes Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Keep sending in those questions to friday@jordanharbinger.com. Our advice and opinions, those are our own, I'm a lawyer, not your lawyer though. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others, share the show with those you love. And even maybe those you don't. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice that we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. 

[00:58:11] Here's a preview with a former undercover FBI agent who infiltrated the Gambino Crime family in New York for nearly three years resulting in the arrest and conviction of 35 mobsters. And get this, he's not even Italian. Here's a bite. 

[00:58:26] Jack Garcia: Jordan, I've done everything. I mean, I have posed as a money launderer. I've worked as a drug dealer. I have worked as a transporter for drug dealers. I worked as a warehouse guy, the whole gamut. My career was 24 out of 26 years was solely dedicated working undercover. If I wasn't working for the FBI, I would have been investigated by the FBI. 

[00:58:49] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:58:50] Jack Garcia: I walked in, I'm in the bar. Now, there's a bar mate there, good-looking young lady. She served me. "What would you like?" Usually, my drink was, "Give me a Ketel One Martini with three olives, a glass of water on the side." I've finished the drink. The guys come in. I'm going to go. Go in my pocket, take out the big wad of money, that knot with the rubber band on it. Bam! I'll give her a hundred dollars. You're not a guy who takes out a little leather wallet and he's going to change or he's doing that. 

[00:59:19] Can you imagine four gangsters sitting around going, "Let's split it up. I had the soup. You had the sandwich and french fries." "Well, what about the tip?" Sometimes we get into bidding wars. A guy goes, "Hey, your money's no good here." "What are you doing? You're embarrassing me over here." "What do you mean you paid a lot?" "Let me get this. Forget about it." "You pay for it." 

[00:59:33]I would have gone in there and become a guy who had never a penny, never went into his wallet and never picked up a tab, never had a dime, never kicked up money, never gave tribute payment, I'd be on my ass. They throw me out. If you're with the mob, I say, "Hey Jordan, you're on record with us." That means we protect you. Nobody could shake you down. We can shake you down but you're on record with us. 

[00:59:56] Jordan Harbinger: For more including tricks wise guys use to know who's legit and who's not mob culture and the rules that govern the always upward flow of money and how Jack became so trusted by the highest levels of the organization that they offered him the chance to become a made man check out episode 392 of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Jack Garcia.

[01:00:19] Hey, by the way, since you're a listener to this podcast, you're obviously the curious, smart type with discerning taste. So I would like to make a recommendation for another podcast for you to try that will also satisfy your curiosity. It's appropriately named Something You Should Know with my friend, Mike Carruthers. Great guy, great host, really experienced. Mike's whole thing is to provide you with fascinating information you will use in your life. Sound familiar? Or that you're likely to share, because it's just so interesting. So as you can see, he's a man after my own heart here. Each episode has two guests, as well as they're useful, content is presented in such a way to keep you wanting more. Fortunately, three episodes a week. I feel like I'm looking in the mirror when I do this kind of promo, but I listened to the show though. I dig it. Recently, one of his guests was Michael Heller, a leading authority on ownership rights, who explained why HBO, Netflix, and even Disney Plus want you to illegally share your password. Money expert, Jacob Goldstein revealed why there are more hundred dollar bills in circulation than ones, which I didn't know. It's mostly because the criminals. So thanks to criminals, we have weird setups of bills. I'm not even sure how that works. I'm going to go listen to that episode because you've piqued my curiosity, Mike. Again, if you like The Jordan Harbinger Show, I know you're going to like Something You Should Know. It's fun, entertaining, well-produced, a joy to listen to. Mike's a great guy. Something You Should Know is available on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Just look for the blue artwork with the big yellow light bulb, Something You Should Know. 

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