You and the spouse moved in with your father-in-law to emotionally support him when your mother-in-law passed away, but it’s difficult to relax or work from home on a foldout bed in the dining room. How can you bring up the subject of bowing out to another (nearby) place — by yourself for the time being if necessary — without feeling insensitive? We’ll try to help you out with this and more here on Feedback Friday!
And in case you didn’t already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org. Now let’s dive in!
On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss:
- “A practical definition of opportunity cost: If you spend too much time working on good things, then you don’t have much time left to work on great things.” -James Clear
- You and the spouse moved in with your father-in-law to emotionally support him when your mother-in-law passed away, but it’s difficult to relax or work from home on a foldout bed in the dining room. How can you bring up the subject of finding another (nearby) place without feeling insensitive?
- When reconnecting with people you’ve lost touch with for ages, how can you diplomatically ask for exactly what you’re looking for without sounding like a user or opportunist?
- Is your reluctance to take on a new job that would pay you four times more than you’ve ever made before due to legitimate concerns over your own competence, or are you just suffering from pangs of imposter syndrome?
- You lent a friend $63k on your credit card, and it’s now clear you’ll never see that money again. Even worse, you’re stuck with the bill and can’t even cover minimum payments. You could consolidate your debt or file for bankruptcy — but are these really your only options?
- Working from home during quarantine made you realize you like being more present for your kids than commuting an hour each way to the office — which the boss wants you to start doing again now that the state has decreed things “safe.” Are you crazy for wanting to start your own business in these uncertain times?
- Have any questions, comments, or stories you’d like to share with us? Drop us a line at email@example.com!
- Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.
- Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.
- And if you want to keep in touch with former co-host and JHS family Jason, find him on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks.
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Please Scroll Down for Featured Resources and Transcript!
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Miss the show we did with Jonathan Haidt — the social psychologist who studies the American culture wars and is widely considered to be one of the world’s leading experts on the psychology of morality? Catch up with episode 90: Jonathan Haidt | The Danger of Good Intentions and Safe Spaces!
Resources from This Episode:
- Blake Mycoskie | Made for Entrepreneurship | TJHS 380
- Neal Brennan | Comedy’s Triple Threat | TJHS 381
- 3-2-1: Opportunity Cost, Power of Listening, and the Stories We Tell Ourselves | James Clear
- Dr. Shasta | Not Quite What the Doctor Ordered
- Barenaked Ladies | Twitter
- Dig Your Well Before You’re Thirsty by Harvey Mackay
- Ray Dalio | Twitter
- How to Overcome Imposter Syndrome | Deep Dive | TJHS 127
- How to Stop Feeling Like An Imposter | Jordan Harbinger
- How to Fire Someone You Care About | Feedback Friday | TJHS 376
- Stop Financially Supporting Deadbeat Friends | Feedback Friday | TJHS 110
- Borrowing and Loaning Money Without Losing Friends | Feedback Friday | TJHS 29
- Debt Consolidation vs. Bankruptcy | Credit.com
- What to Know About Potential COVID-19 Treatment Remdesivir | Healthline
Transcript for Should I Move In with My Father-in-Law? | Feedback Friday (Episode 382)
Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today, I'm here with Gabriel Mizrahi, as usual. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most brilliant people. And we turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a deeper understanding of how the world works, make sense of what's really happening sometimes even inside of your own brain.
[00:00:33] If you're new to the show on Fridays, we give you advice and answer listener questions. Now, not unsolicited advice, it's stuff you have asked for if you're new to the show. It's not just me pontificating. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes to authors, to thinkers and performers.
[00:00:52] And this week, we had Blake Mycoskie, founder of TOMS shoes, super successful entrepreneur, super successful business venture, coming on to discuss serial entrepreneurship, social entrepreneurship which has essentially those guys invented over there at TOMS. We also had Neal Brennan. Do you remember him, Gabriel for 3 Mics on Netflix?.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:01:11] Oh yeah, of course. Neal Brennan is one of the greatest writers working right now.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:15] Yeah, I think so. He was the co-creator of the Chappelle’s Show if you know who Dave Chappelle is, maybe, and Neal is genius, I think, probably or comedic genius in any case.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:01:25] I love that special. He combined storytelling, standup comedy, and — I don't know what you would call it — confessional sort of storytelling/anecdote. It was so interesting. I love him. He's a great writer.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:37] We get behind that. We get a little bit in the weeds on that, as far as I can get in the weeds with comedy writing, but that was a great one with Neal. I had a great time.
[00:01:43] Of course, our primary mission here on The Jordan Harbinger Show, we want to pass along insight from our guests, from our own experiences along to you. So the real purpose of the show is to have conversations at least on Fridays, directly with the listener. And that's what we're going to do today and every Friday here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please do keep those emails concise. Try as best as you can. We'll ask you for more info if we need it. How's that? A lot of people go, "I just want to include everything." We don't need everything, but we do need some, so include a descriptive subject line. Was that the latest peeve, Gabriel? Every subject is Feedback Friday and we're like, "We know!" We know that it's for that.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:22] It would be super helpful to have a little descriptive subject line. It just helps us go through the inbox a little bit more easily and find your question faster.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:29] Yes.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:29] That'd be awesome.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:30] Yeah. And look, if we can get your question faster — is it safe to say that people who follow the rules get your eye quicker. So if you want an answer, be concise, and do a good subject line. Otherwise, you fall to the back of the line, maybe
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:02:41] We just got so many great emails from so many people and, you know, we can only do so many and some of them have to be the right topic for the episode, for the week that we're doing them. But if you have a good subject line and you keep it concise, yeah, it definitely increases your chances of getting your letter read. So we super appreciate it.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:56] I wanted to go over this practical definition of opportunity cost. I heard this the other day from James Clear and it's quite brilliant. In fact, I don't know where he got it. "If you spend too much time working on good things, then you don't have much time left to work on great things." So understanding opportunity cost means eliminating good uses of time. So I'll repeat that understanding opportunity cost means eliminating good uses of time. And that's what makes it hard. So if you just have things that are a waste of your time and things that are working really well for you, that are a great use of your time or a good use of your time, the choice is easy. Don't do things that are a waste of your time, but that's not really what opportunity cost is in your business or in your life. Usually, you're deciding between do I go the extra, extra mile in my career or do I pick up my kids and spend some extra time with them? And usually, it's not even that clear cut. It's usually like, "Do I go over my social media inbox?" or "Do I answer these other customer service requests?" and it's actually a calculation that has to be done. Most of us, whether it's in our career, our family life, or in our business, we don't actually sit down and make those calculations. So understanding opportunity cost means eliminating uses of our time that are merely good and then prioritizing great uses of our time instead. So there's a phrase, "The good is the enemy of the great," and I think this comes out of that. If something is good and you're spending all your time on it. Okay, good but it's not going to be great. You're going to spend too much time doing good things, not enough time doing great things. So meditate on that grasshopper. In the meantime, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:04:28] Dear Jordan and Gabriel, my fiance's mother passed away about three months ago after contracting COVID-19. As a result, we are temporarily living in his family's home about an hour away from our place to keep his father company. His father has literally no friends and alienated all of his relatives. Losing his wife is extremely hard for him as they were together almost 24/7. And she was the only one he truly had. My fiance has a younger brother. He's 28, who also lives with his father, but he's very distant. He doesn't really interact with people and usually just hangs out in his room and plays video games all day. I can only imagine what they're all going through, and this might sound very selfish, but I don't feel at home in their house. We're sleeping on a foldable bed in the dining room, which is also my office now. And I have to wear earplugs every night so I don't wake up from the noise from the kitchen or the boiler or a noisy neighbor. My fiance says that he definitely wants to move back to our flat with me. He just doesn't know when, as he can't leave his father. At the same time, he also wants to move near him. He also said that he'd understand if I want to move out of the house as he does not want to burden me with all of this. His father is highly functional and fully capable of continuing with his daily routines although I know he will feel very lonely if we leave his house. I wanted to discuss the matter with my fiance again and I just don't know-how. I'm worried that I would come off as insensitive given the circumstances, but I want to have an idea of what he wants to do and be part of his plan as well. Should I approach him about this ASAP or just wait until he comes around eventually? If you agree that I should talk to him, how do I do this and still be considerate of his feelings, but get what I need from him too? Am I being inconsiderate to want us to leave his father and have our own place again? Or should I just accept his offer to move out? Thank you for taking the time to read my email and stay safe. Signed, Stuck Between a Flat and a Sad Place.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:12] Yikes, man. This is a sad one because obviously, you're dealing with a death in the family, but you're also sort of sacrificing yourself in order to make someone else happy, but I'm not even sure that that's what's really happening, Gabriel. It doesn't sound like anyone is happy. It sounds like everyone is miserable, but that they're kind of doing it as a team, but I'm not sure that doing it as a team is actually helping anyone. Get better anytime.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:06:37] Yeah. It sounds like they sort of have cramped in around the dad's loneliness.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:41] Yeah.
Neal Brennan: [00:06:42] Like the dad has whatever issues he has, which sound very old and deep-rooted and they've rushed in to try to fix that but in the process, have sort of created several other problems for everybody in this situation out of good intentions for the father.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:54] Yeah. It seems a little bit like — look, I understand why they want to stay there. I understand why they do that.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:07:00] Same, yes, me too.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:01] But the brother's clearly depressed. Nobody sits in the room and plays video games and comes out at 3:00 a.m. for a, you know, Shasta and wings or whatever, and then goes back in there if they're not doing pretty poorly.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:07:12] You think, he's a Shasta guy?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:13] You know, I'm not sure.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:07:15] I got a strong Dr Pepper vibe.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:16] You got a strong Dr Pepper vibe.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:07:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:19] All jokes aside, I mean, the kid is obviously dealing with some stuff. There's something going on. Dad's loneliness seems chronic. I mean, there's an obvious pattern here. There's a reason she said, "Alienated all the friends and family." That means he's probably kind of a —
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:07:33] Not an easy guy.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:33] — miserable guy. Yeah, not an easy guy. So I understand her husband's feelings of obligation. His mom died, his dad's miserable. He's like, "Okay. My dad needs me because he has no one now." And so he's worried, but you are not really under an obligation to stay there. You might feel like you have an obligation via your husband. I think it might actually take tension off the relationship if she does leave because right now, you all are miserable. Everyone is miserable. Ask your husband if he needs you there because you want to be able to take care of him during this time and let him grieve, but you also need to be able to sleep, get back to work, get a good night's rest. Yes, it's a tough time for your husband. Yes, it's a tough time for the family, but you're just not — I don't see the obligation here to also be miserable because of that. It depends on the rules of your relationship. You know, in my relationship, if somebody is miserable, we don't always have to be miserable together. You can express sympathy and you can help out, but you don't also have to just be like, well, I guess my life's going to suck for the next month. You don't have to do that in my family.
[00:08:36] It's actually in everyone's best interest. If you are taking care of your own sanity, not just in my family, but I think in any family. I don't see any reason to make everyone more miserable. I also don't see the big deal about moving back home. Your husband can rejoin you later. You can even pop by on weekends. You can bring food, you can bring some joy to the house with your well-rested self being in good spirits again. You're not going to be able to bring joy into the house if you are also like, "Yeah, I slept four hours, four nights in a row. My back hurts from working on a kitchen stool all day. You know, shoot me."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:09:08] I have to wear Bose headphones just to get a nap in because I can't sleep at night because the neighbors are playing Barenaked Ladies until three in the morning —
Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:16] Right, exactly.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:09:16] — which is my worst nightmare.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:19] Insufferable, so the idea that you have to join in the pity party — pity party is a strong word. Look, there's a death in the family. It's real, but you don't have to punish yourself because everybody else isn't feeling good. Gabriel, what do you think?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:09:31] She doesn't have to punish herself, but she also doesn't need to take on her fiance's relationship with his father.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:36] Ah, interesting.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:09:36] It sounds like he has a complicated relationship with his dad for obvious reasons. He probably feels responsible for him, but I think he also feels guilty and he's sad. He's also grieving for his mom which is, of course, really, really hard. I mean, harden under normal circumstances, probably devastating under COVID circumstances. So I get it, but your father can live on his own — I should say your father-in-law can live on his own and he's driven everyone else away. And that in a sense was his choice. So it's hard to tell you what to do. It's harder to tell your fiance what to do, but he might not be helping in the long run, the dad's cope-and-live on his own by sticking around for this long. I mean, it's not his job to take care of his dad forever either. It's not like he's frail and can't function. It's not like he can't live in the house by himself. I think you said that he's totally fine and self-sufficient. He's just lonely and sad. It has been three months, which is very fresh, yes. But I think a reasonable amount of time to start asking the question, when do we return to normal life?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:31] It's hard to tell other people how to feel and how to grieve —
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:10:3] Yes.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:34] — because it's not my situation. So I want to be very clear here. I'm not like, "Ugh, this whole thing is overblown." That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just trying to sort of give you permission to create a boundary where maybe you feel like you do not have permission to create a boundary. And again, you've got to check in with your husband and see what the rules are — the unwritten rules of your relationship. Maybe he's like, "I feel so good Avenue here because you're the only person who's not a miserable wretch around me," or maybe he's like, "Oh, I'm so glad you want to go home because my brother's miserable. My dad's miserable and I'm miserable and I'm making you miserable and it's making me feel even worse."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:11:07] But she won't know that until she talks to him.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:09] Exactly.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:11:10] And the problem is that she feels like this is a taboo topic. Like she's saying, "I'm worried I would come off as insensitive by even broaching the subject." But I think that breakdown in communication is probably 80 percent of the problem. In this conversation, you can go out of your way to express how strongly you feel for your fiance, how much you sympathize and empathize with what he's going through. Make him feel understood before you ask him, "Hey, can I go home?" or whatever. And I think if you do that and you're genuine about it, then this conversation won't be as scary as maybe you think it will. But bottom line, I think you do need to talk to your fiance. Then he'll be more receptive to thinking about the situation in a new way. And he might actually need you right now to see what he can't see about the situation you guys are in.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:11:48] Let us know how it goes. I think you're going to see — I think you're going to feel some steam led out of the valve when you get a chance to go home. And I think everyone, not just you, is going to be better off for this.
[00:12:00] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back.
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[00:13:06] This episode is also sponsored by Better Help — Better Help online counseling. This is one of those products, and I've said this before that I was like, "That doesn't exist already. There's no therapy you can do for him at home. I don't understand why." Better Help counselors specialize in many areas, including relationship, conflict, anxiety, depression, loss, trauma. They are there to listen and help, and you can connect with your counselor in a safe and private online environment. Everything you share is confidential. Simply fill out a questionnaire, a couple of days later, they match you with a counselor. Easily schedule a secure video or phone sessions with your therapist, exchange unlimited messages. You can always get a new one if you don't click get professional help when you want, wherever you are.
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[00:14:01] And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
[00:14:06] All right, what's next.
[00:14:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:07] Hi team. I started listening to your podcast recently and I love it. I wish I had found it years ago. Also, I loved your courses. I especially liked your point about creating the habit of reaching out to people you haven't talked to in a while. My question is about connecting with people you lost touch with for months, maybe years, but now find a reason to reconnect with. For example, I know a person who could refer me to a good doctor or job opportunity or a good deal for a product or service. I understand that the initial hello, long time no talk, text, or email, but how do I slip in the real reason I'm contacting them? How can I diplomatically and nicely ask for what I'm looking for without sounding like a user or an opportunist? Signed, Navigating The Networking Knot.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:46] This is an interesting question. Gabe, I want to see what you think first, actually.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:49] You're the networking guru.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:51] Yeah, that's why I'm dumping it off on you first.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:14:53] Okay, that's fair. Okay, so here's my take on this. The point of great relationship building as I have learned from Jordan primarily is to be doing it in such a way that making the kinds of requests that you're asking about making isn't weird or opportunistic. That's the whole idea of digging the well before you're thirsty, which Jordan talks about all the time. That said, I actually think it's okay sometimes to just ask people for things if you need them. Not always, but sometimes. Sometimes the request can be the excuse to reach out to the person in the first place. Especially if it's a relatively easy request. If it's not like a big deal if it's like getting a referral for a good accountant or whatever, like, "Hey, hook me up with your guy at an H&R block." You know, like that's not the worst thing in the world to ask somebody if you haven't talked to them in a minute, but again, that said you are right. It is a little bit opportunistic to only talk to people when you need something, which is why you have to be networking on a regular basis long before you actually need something from the other person. Make that a habit with the help of Six-Minute Networking.
[00:15:50] This course is off the charts good. Like it works, it's so simple, it's so efficient. There's a reason that we get emails, frankly, every single week from people saying this thing works. So I would take an interest in other people and help them first on an ongoing basis. Always be looking for ways to be of assistance to people. And then when you do need something, you don't have to do this awkward dance or math in your head about like," Oh, have I — did I help them? Was that back in January? Can I ask them now? Is it weird to ask them to hook me up with a discount on the shorts that I love from their husband's fashion company?" or whatever. Like in your head, you're worried about being usury because you haven't invested in the relationship in advance. But if it's a real relationship, then you're just sharing value back and forth, which is the best.
[00:16:30] So my take, Jordan, tell me if I've veered too far from the networking path, but I think your question is correct, but it's a sign that you need to work on your relationships. So I would get started on that.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:39] Yeah, I think you nailed it. So the truth here is that when you are approaching somebody to say — first of all, we say, dig the well before you get thirsty. The reason for that is because if I say, "Well, it's awkward reaching out when I need something." You haven't invested enough in the relationship? I would never think. "Ooh, I don't know. Can I text Gabriel and ask him to do this quick favor for me or this? Not so quick favor for me. That's weird." Because you and I talk all the time and anyone in my family, I would feel comfortable reaching out to them. Anyone in my circle, I would feel comfortable reaching out to them. If I need something from somebody and I'm not comfortable reaching out to them, it's because I haven't done the work, to dig the well before you get thirsty.
[00:17:20] So I think you definitely killed this answer. Definitely got it right. The idea here is that things are not awkward, nor do they have to be slipped in if you have laid the groundwork. It's awkward at all. That's why we have layoff lifelines where you make the list. That's one of the first exercises is in Six-Minute Networking. That's why we have a regular sort of easy to do engagement in that course. So I can text people and say like, "Hey, do you know Ray Dalio? Can you introduce me to his people?" If I feel cringe or awkward doing that it's because I know somewhere in my head that I don't have the right to do that. I haven't earned enough referral currency. So I'm asking for something that I shouldn't really be entitled to at all.
[00:18:00] There's a lot of transactional internet marketers. Here's a real example. I'm not going to blow up anybody by name, but there's this very transactional internet marketer, dude. And ironically he's one who always goes, "I never asked for anything without adding value to the interaction." And I'm like, okay, that's one of those things that sounds good. But what you're saying is, "Don't ask me for anything, unless you're going to give me something in return." Because I don't think, "Ooh, I better add value to the interaction." I'm always adding value to the relationship. I'm not adding value five minutes before I need something. But I remember asking this guy for an intro thinking we were friends and he's like — he didn't respond. And then I was like, "Hey, I'm circling back on this." And then he didn't respond. And then the third time I go, "Hey, you're usually pretty responsive. What's up?" And he goes, "I usually just never asked for anything until I add value to the interaction." And I was like, "Oh, you're a kind of a jerk face that only is going to help me if I help you." And of course, then he was like, "Yeah, just the way I operate is I always want to add value first." And I was like, "Okay, what do you want? And then he came up with this laundry list of crap that I could do for him." And I was like, "Yeah, you know, this is not really how I roll. Like, I'm happy to help you, but it's weird.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:19:11] That whole story has just made me want to take a shower.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:13] Yeah. And what's weird is these internet marketer guys. They always — transactional people, they always frame it as, "No, we're just giving each other value," and it's like, "No, that's what transactional is." If you can't help me with something in, maybe not be expecting directly in return, you're being transactional.
[00:19:30] Now on the other hand, if somebody is asking me for something all the time and they never helped me with anything and they ghost me, if I need something, then it's fair to draw a boundary. But if somebody calls me out of the blue and we've been friends for a while — I guess it's not as much as out of the blue. If somebody calls me and they ask me for something, I'm not going to go, "Well, what are you going to do for me? Because I want to trade value in the relationship, I'm just going to freaking help the person and not think about it again. It's exhausting to keep track. It's exhausting to keep score. And it's one of the things I say is a relationship ruiner. Honestly, it can be a good audit to your own behavior if no one will help you because they feel like you've never added anything.
[00:20:09] But this person to me sounds like their heart's in the right place, but they haven't done the groundwork to actually shore up their relationships. So take that as a hint that you need to audit your own behavior. If you start to feel like you can never ask for anything, it's either because you haven't done the work or you need practice asking for things. But if you're able to ask for things from some people and never from others, it's usually 95 percent of the time, a good signal that you just haven't strengthened the relationship to where you feel comfortable making the ask, and that's rightly so. Like you shouldn't make the ask because you haven't done the work.
[00:20:44] All right. What's next?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:20:45] Dear Jordan, I'm a successful professional with a great family, awesome kids, and a loving wife. I've consistently moved up in my career and I'm now next in line to lead a small division of my company when my boss retires. I'm great at this job, enjoy working here, and have a lot of flexibility and freedom. My only problem is compensation. This is a mid-sized company and I'm paid decently, but I feel like I'm worth a lot more. This year, I'm projecting to finish at 500 percent of my goals and will earn the company over a million bucks in revenue. But I'll only get a tiny, tiny fraction of that as a bonus. I recently applied to another company that is 20 times bigger than my current employer. I'd be a VP starting a new division to pursue a market in which I have nearly 20 years of experience, but the job would pay four times what I'm currently making. I'm a perfect fit for the role. In all my research, it feels like this job was created specifically for someone like me, but I'm a little bit worried about the interview. I'm confident that I impress people when we meet, but I'm concerned that I'm getting it over my head. I've managed teams before, but this would be on a whole different level with directors and managers reporting to me. Am I suffering from imposter syndrome? I've struggled with that my whole life, but I've always been good at the fake-it-till-you-make-it way of doing things, which has worked out for me so far. I guess I'm worried that jumping from a mid-level job at one company to something so high profile at a big company will expose me as a fraud and I'll be sent packing. Do you have any advice for getting my mindset right so that when I walk into the interview, I can show them that I'm the right person for the job? And to take it a little bit further, if when I got the job, how can I come across as a seasoned executive instead of a scared little kid? which is how I feel when I really think about it. Thanks for all your help. Leapfrogging Up the Corporate Ladder.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:24] So this is great, huge, congrats Leapfrogging. But your hunch is correct, it's classic imposter syndrome. And I should say congratulations on that too because imposter syndrome is while not super easy to overcome, it's usually a good sign of high performers. Everybody I know that is a total butt-kicker — pretty much everyone I should say has imposter syndrome. There are a few people who say they don't, but when I dig deep with them, like these all-star sales guys, they'll be like, "Yeah, I don't really get that. No, I'm confident." When I ask them enough questions, usually they're just thinking about it in a different way. "Oh yeah. I was a little nervous that maybe I wouldn't be able to hit my goals in this market, but you know, I know I got it this," and I'm thinking, "Okay, so you can pep talk your way out of it. That doesn't mean it never happened to you."
[00:23:09] People who don't have imposter syndrome, high schoolers come to mind. They know everything. They can do everything they'd ever feel even the slightest bit that there's, there's a little bit of confidence. That there's a little bit of — of course, I'm saying tongue-in-cheek — a lot of those young people that I speak to that don't feel imposter syndrome and don't raise their hand when I ask them these questions. They've never done anything. They've never accomplished much of anything. But then I go to Harvard, LinkedIn, Apple, Facebook, and every hand in the room is up for people who feel like they're the one that slipped through the cracks and shouldn't be in the room. So I think the more you earn and the higher rungs on the ladder that you attain, the more you feel like you probably shouldn't be there. So I would say this is almost a good sign that you're going to be in the right place because everyone should have it.
[00:23:51] If you were to tell me, "Hey Jordan, we're going to select you as vice president of the United States. Or are you going to run?" I would be like, "You're insane. That's ridiculous." That's not imposter syndrome. That's me going, "Well, I'm wholly unqualified for this." Me having a little bit of nerves — let's say you say, "All right, we're going to give you a drive time, satellite radio show. You're going to be opposite Howard Stern." I would feel extremely nervous about that. Maybe I'm not the right guy for the job, but I would feel like I have a shot in hell of maybe making it and doing something with that. That is different. You know that is a completely different beast. So you're thinking, "I'm not sure if I got this," is probably a good sign that you're just outside your comfort zone or slightly outside your comfort zone in a good way. You may even be slightly in over your head. No problem. You can rise to the occasion. You said it yourself. This job was tailor-made for you. You have 20 years of experience. You're not fresh out of college or something like that. You didn't look into this, your dad's not hiring you for some role that you're not qualified for while everybody else looks on in disgust.
[00:24:55] Learning to manage people is something you've done before and now you're being promoted. This is great. Yes, it's outside of your comfort zone, companies are in the business of hiring people that they can really bet on. This company is betting on you. You didn't sell them a bill of goods. They examined your resume, your experience, what you've done for your current company. And they decided that you are going to crush this for them. They're not just taking your word for it, reading your LinkedIn profile, and risking a ton of time and money on you because of that. They probably have a pretty damn good idea of what you are capable of, even if you are feeling unsure right now. Gabe, what do you think?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:30] Isn't it funny that when you have imposter syndrome, you sort of view the world as if everybody is judge, jury, and executioner and they somehow mess up or they know better than you. And like all the reasons that you are absolutely in the right place in your life are not enough to make you feel like you earned that place.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:48] Right.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:25:48] It's so bizarre. It's part of the mechanics of this really strange syndrome.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:52] Yeah. Like, "Oh, I've been killing it here for 20 years. I'm far exceeding my goals. I can't be promoted any further, but what will these random people I've never met think about my performance if I make a mistake at some point, maybe."
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:26:04] People who, as you pointed out, are desperately trying to find the right person and have asked you to come in to talk to them. I mean, it's just from the outside, it's so obvious, but to the person who's in it, it feels so real. I will say this. The fake-it-till-you-make-it approach which I feel like that's almost that idea is almost a product of our generation. I don't know if that's because imposter syndrome is endemic to our time or our generation where we're sort of self-branding and positioning ourselves as people we might not be or chasing more opportunities because more of them are available to us. Or we're competing with one another more intensely, whatever the reasons that fake-it-till-you-make-it thing, it's so of our time. And I happen to think, I don't know if you guys agree. Jordan, tell me what you think. I feel like that is one huge reason that imposter syndrome perpetuates itself. Because the more you pretend, the more you feel like you have to pretend like you always know what you're doing and hide the fact that you might not always know what you're doing or that you have room to grow, the more you feel you need to double down on that false persona. The person who does know everything, the person who is perfect, the person who wants to walk into that interview room, and be absolutely flawless and it makes sense to fake it till you make it if that's the only option you have, it's sometimes it's a smart strategy.
[00:27:17] And I will say that I think in small doses, it can be very helpful, but be aware of how often you're relying on that. Because of the fact that you are saying in your email, that you're so confident, you impress people when you meet them. I think that's part of this. Like part of you feels like you are in control of what makes you really good. And at the same time, you're sort of doubting whether that imposter-ish identity is actually successful because you know the truth about yourself. So if you don't have a place — and I'm speaking a little bit from personal experience, but if you don't have a place that you can be authentic, say with trusted colleagues or your spouse or a therapist, or just with yourself, then this will eventually become an issue. That's why I'm so glad you wrote in because I think everybody can relate to this. You will always struggle to internalize your accomplishments and feel like you didn't really achieve all of the amazing things that you have clearly achieved. Unless you have a place to say, "You know what? Here are the things I don't know how to do. I don't know how to manage managers and directors yet. I don't know every nook and cranny of this new job, but I could learn it, but here's what I'm going to have to do to get there." So that is how imposterism actually gets worse over time. And I think that's why it's so wonderful that you're just calling it out.
[00:28:23] Jordan, he asked very specifically, how does he show them that he's the right person for the job? Do you have any thoughts about that?
Jordan Harbinger: [00:28:29] Yeah. First of all, I love the idea that fake it till you make it is perpetuating this problem. It's the old comparing your blooper reel to other people's highlight reel cliche, where we're looking at everything else and we're thinking, "But if only they knew that sometimes I get mustard on my tire, forget to return a sales call." It's like, you know, we're thinking of that and when we look at the person who's ideal for this job, and they're just a better version of — they're us at our A-game. Yeah, that's why they're hiring you. They want you to be there like 60 percent, 70 percent of the time. That's what they're hoping for. They're not hoping for perfection.
[00:29:02] How do you show that you're the right person for the job? First of all, try not to hide the parts of you that you are working on because nothing says I am going to lie to my employer and blow it. Like somebody who hides their shortcomings, that's for sure.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:29:18] So true.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:18] You know, I hate being a cheerleader only. I think going for it and realizing that you still have something to learn is actually probably the best thing you can show. I love when people come in with humility but are also confident enough in what they can do. Don't try and sugarcoat or smooth over your flaws, but give it your best and show what you are able to do. That's really all your employers asking for you. I probably could detail a little bit more. I don't know. What do you think, Gabe?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:29:46] Yeah. I mean, I think he needs to own his experience and his expertise and not apologize for it, but he doesn't have to hide the parts of him that do need some work. He also doesn't necessarily need to go way out of his way to highlight them if it isn't appropriate for the interview. But I think he feels the need to work very hard to protect them, which is exactly why the imposter mindset has set in. So look, if you were on the other side of that table, I think you would want to be meeting somebody who is right for the job, who knows what he's talking about, who has the experience, which you clearly have. But who's also self-aware, who's vulnerable in the right amounts, who's open and collaborative and cool. And like all of those in a colleague that you would hope to have. So I think if you go in there hoping to be bulletproof, then you're going to end up coming across as not the guy you are. Like, you're going to come across as somebody who is working very hard to protect against the vulnerability that exists underneath the impostor mentality.
[00:30:39] So I think you're just not used to that because you've been very busy covering it up because so many of us, including me, have to do that because we feel like we live in a world where we need to be perfect. But if you do that authentically in this interview, you will not need to fake it because you already have the goods, like you already have the goods. There will be nothing to fake. If you just go in there as yourself and own all of the parts of you in the right amounts in equal measure. And that in a nutshell, by the way, is how you escape imposter syndrome is just you make it a practice to stop pretending and start opening up. I'm not saying you need to be this gaping wound of like confession all the time.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:14] Here's everything that's wrong with me. Yeah.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:31:16] Here's everything that's wrong with me. I messed that up. I don't know. I get scared when people walk into my office with a question. You know, you don't have to say all that, but we do walk around with the idea that we need to be perfect in order to be taken seriously and it's just not true. I highly recommend checking out the article and the Deep Dive we did on this exact topic. They're both really handy. I think they'll help you out a lot. I think they were extremely helpful for us to write because it helped us understand ourselves. We'll link to those in the show notes.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:41] One thing I want to add before we move on is you — and you touched on this — we waste a lot of bandwidth when you try to hide things, you waste a ton of cognitive bandwidth that actually ironically causes you to make more mistakes. So if you aren't — I'm trying to think of an analogy here. If I'm learning a new language — I think I've touched on this in other episodes — if I'm learning a new language, I want to make my mistakes as loud as possible. Did I talk about this a few weeks ago? I'm getting deja vu here.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:32:09] Yeah. We talked about it in the, I think, learning a new language thing, but it totally applies here.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:14] I'm not making my mistakes loud. I can't get corrected. So if I'm trying to sweep things under the rug, be non-committal with things that I say, not report metrics, because I'm not sure what's going on this, that and the other. I've got a whole sub-process running on my computer — of my, you know, the brain that's like, "Ooh, this has to look good. That has to look good. Let's make this intentionally vague so that nobody can correct me here." You're going to make more mistakes because you're going to be wasting time, money, cognitive bandwidth, resources, whatever it is, trying to smooth things over. And then your employer's just going to get annoyed. Like, "Why are these numbers vague? Tell me what's going on here? Why isn't this happening? Why are you under communicating? Why are you over-communicating about some other thing that I don't care about? What the hell is going on?" That to me as an employer is extremely annoying.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:33:00] Yes.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:00] So I'd rather have somebody make their mistakes out loud and go, "Okay. So I was supposed to bring lights to the film set, right?" "Yes, you were. You didn't. Okay. You should definitely know that, but it's all right. Good. Let's fix the problem. That was definitely your bad. Let's fix it and move on." But if you're like, "I've got it back full of equipment, maybe there are lights in there and maybe there's not." And then we get to filming and I go, "Where are the lights?" And you go, "That was the thing that was missing surprise." I'm going to be super pissed. And your mistakes might not be that obvious if you're in sales and things like that, but it's going to look like that. And that's a really good analogy because if you can't film without lights, so don't try and hide the ball. That's one piece of concrete advice I can absolutely say with confidence is going to piss off your employer is trying to hide the ball is a great way to get fired. I would absolutely fire somebody, who's doing an okay job, but continually sweep things under the rug and lies to me, but I would never fire somebody, who's doing an okay job, but it's telling me the truth that I know that I can train and improve and is actually listening. I don't want to have to figure out what kind of mood you're in or whether or not you're telling me the truth. I just want to find out how to solve problems. So make sure that you're wearing that stuff more or less on your sleeve when you're communicating, especially in a new role, if you feel outside your comfort zone. So we'll link to some of that in the show notes as well. Congrats on the job upgrade. That's huge. That's huge, man. Super proud of you.
[00:34:25] This is the Jordan harbinger show and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back.
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[00:36:41] After the show we've got a preview trailer of our interview with Professor Jonathan Haidt discussing the dangers of free speech limitations here in America, especially on college campuses. So stay tuned for that after the close of the show.
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[00:36:56] And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday.
[00:37:00] [00:37:00] All right, what's next?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:37:01] Hey Jordan, I've been listening nonstop to your show for about two months now and I love it. About a year ago, I lent to a close friend a lot of money, about $63,000 to be exact. Neither my family nor I are well off so all of this came from my credit cards. Of course, I never heard from him again and now the burden is all on me. I'm a delivery driver for a major freight company and live at home with my parents with no other bills, but I still can't even make the minimum payments. I started a debt consolidation program through a financial service, and I'm worried I might be wasting my time or getting taken advantage of. I've been with the program for about six months now and really starting to question if it would be best for me to get myself out of the program and file for chapter seven. I know my credit is gone and there's no hope for that in the future. So I'm fine waiting 10 or so years for it to come back. I'm so lost and ready to put this huge burden behind me. Any advice will help. Sincerely, A Chop Chewing Over Chapter Seven.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:54] I'm so glad you're good at naming these things. That's a huge relief. So I spoke to my attorney who's also a bankruptcy lawyer in part of his other practice. He said, "You can sue your friend and file for bankruptcy." First, though, I would try suing your friend first to recover the money. If that doesn't work then, and only then is bankruptcy the next best option, absent a low-interest balance transfer loan. So what that is, is essentially, you call a debt consolidation company. It sounds like this is what you've done. And you say, "Look, I got 14 credit cards with this balance on it and it's 14% APR. I'm drowning here." First, you call the cards, tell them to freeze, and lower the interest and see if you can manage that. If not, you take a balanced transfer loan and you try and pay that back or a consolidation loan. By filing for bankruptcy, you can also reorganize all of your other outstanding debt if there is any. So not just what you've lent your friend if you've got a bunch of other debt from something else, you know, a car loan, whatever it is, you can reorganize that. But bankruptcy is pretty serious. I'm really sorry to hear that your friend screwed you over. Actually, this happened to somebody I know when they were younger as well, and their parents flipped the lid — it was actually my brother-in-law. I didn't want to out him on this, but Jen said, "Oh my God, brother did that." And my dad was furious and it happens to nice people all the time. They get taken advantage of. It also happens to not nice people all the time. So don't think that being nice is a prerequisite for getting screwed over. It does suck though when it happens by the hand of one of your friends. I mean, that hurts.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:39:24] Yeah, it hurts. It's also a huge burden to carry around because he hasn't — I think in his original email, he said that he hasn't really been talking to anybody. Nobody knows. This is a secret. So he's just carrying this around without much advice or commiseration or just somebody to vent with. I wish I knew what this friend borrowed the money for. Like, I'm just curious.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:40] Yeah me too. I'm wondering.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:39:41] Was he building an extension to his house or did he blow it on a weekend and Atlantic City or like, was he trying to buy stock in the company that makes remdesivir, or like, what was he doing? Like, I'm just curious.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:51] What is remdesivir?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:39:53] It's that drug that they're hoping has some applications to COVID-19. I don't know. I don't know what the status is right now.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:59] Oh gosh.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:40:00] Remdesivir. I think it's like probably one of the most viable candidates, but it's not a hundred percent yet but anyway, I imagine that that would be a decent bet right now. I don't know. In addition to the bankruptcy stuff, Jordan mentioned you might want to consider talking to somebody about this. It's a lot to deal with on your own. I get the sense that you carry some shame about this decision, which is perfectly understandable. Talking about it won't make the debt go away, but it will ease some of the loneliness and help you process the stuff that led you to make this decision in the first place. There's a quote — I can't remember who said it, but I love it. And it goes, "Experience doesn't teach. It disfigures," and I feel like that really applies here. Like it's so hard to understand. If someone came along and told you — one day, somebody you trust will come along, ask you to borrow 60 grand, and then ghost you. You wouldn't believe that. But now that it's happened, I bet it will never happen to you again. I'm so sorry that it did but it sucks that that's how we have to learn, but sometimes that's life. I hope you get out of this with as little damage as possible, and that you take this lesson with you into everything you do from here on out.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:58] Gabe, I really liked that idea. I never even thought about addressing the psychological consequences of getting screwed over by a friend. Because the last thing you want to do is turn into a guy that's like, "Everyone's just going to screw me." That's going to make your life miserable.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:41:09] Right.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:10] And it might sound like an overreaction that you're not going to have. But I can totally see lending someone close to you, money getting screwed over and being like, "I can never trust anyone," and having problems in every relationship from there out due to this seed, that's been planted that everyone's just going to mess with you. That's just not a good foundation for friendships, romantic relationships, familial relationships. You got to rip out that weed in your psyche, man, definitely. Good call.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:41:35] Yeah. Yeah. He needs to come out of this smart, not bitter.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:37] Yeah. Good call. All right, what's next?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:41:40] Hi, Jordan and Gabriel. I became a lawyer after being a paralegal for a small litigation firm for 10 years. I've been an associate for that firm for two years now. Over time, I've realized that I don't really like litigation. I prefer transactional business law, estate planning, and alternative dispute resolution. Also, I'm an entrepreneur at heart, and working for the firm has stifled my creativity. I'm a mom of two young boys and my office is an hour's drive away from my home. Working from home during the pandemic helped me realize that I really like being more present for my kids, but my firm will no longer allow us to work from home now that our state has opened up. I'm seriously considering leaving the firm to go solo. I know that I will be made partner in about five to seven more years if I stay, but I'll be around 45 years old then until then I'm making less than six figures, but it's a steady salary, which can be nice. Am I crazy for wanting to go solar right now in this economy? What is the best way to quit the firm I've worked at for 12 years? Thank you. Going Solo Without Going Oh No.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:36] Okay. Some are better than others.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:42:40] You hate the fun. I gotcha.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:41] I mean it's all right.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:42:42] I'm making it up.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:42] It’s not your finest work, especially in this episode where you've really been killing it, but Going Solo Without Going Oh No. All right. I'll take it, I'll accept it.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:42:49] That's fair. No, I'll take a note and I'll just keep that.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:53] What I'm trying to say is do better, do better.
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:42:56] I'll do better.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:42:57] Look, you are not crazy. You are clearly wired as an entrepreneur. Well, seemingly wired as an entrepreneur. I'm not even sure what that means. I think a lot of people have this and then, but sounds like you have the technology. Make sure though — and I tell this to everybody, who's trying to get out of a day job and into a business — make sure you're running to a business and to an idea and not away from a company or away from a boss. And what I mean by this is a lot of people, they go, "Oh man, I want to start my own business. I'm going all in. I'm quitting my job." And then I'll ask a series of questions. One of which is, "What do you like about your current job?" And if they're like, "Nothing. My boss sucks and the company sucks and everyone's an idiot." I'm like, "Oh, are you starting a business because you don't want to be around them and you don't want to boss and you hate getting up early?" Because that is a set of the absolute worst reasons to start a business, possible, like at all. And I see this from people young and old, it's not just like, you know, iGen or Gen Z or Millennials who say this. This is — I've routinely get Boomers who are, "I 'm going to retire, but I hate this place. And I love to see the place burned down. I'm going to go all-in on my own business." And I'm like, "Just retire, just work the extra three years and retire." You don't need the stress of doing this mediocre at best garage crafting idea that you have and quitting your job. You're going to be in trouble. So make sure you're running to a business, not away from a boss or away from something else.
[00:44:20] The question you need to ask yourself as a lawyer, is can you generate clients on the side, or do you have some sort of non-compete? You should probably read your own employment contract. A non-compete may only prohibit you from doing litigation work on the outside. Not just any legal work, but you're going to want to make damn sure. That you're allowed to generate clients on the side because you don't want to violate your employment contract. You don't want to get sued by your law firm for soliciting your own clients. But what you also don't want to do is leave your law firm and then go, "Oh, okay. Getting clients is really hard. Never had to do that before. It's been six months. I don't have any work to do. I'm going broke. This is a nightmare." You want to make sure that you land on your feet? I'll tell you the same thing. I tell everybody who wants to leave a job and go all in, which is you need to make sure that you are going all-in only when you have to. What I mean by that is scale as much as you can without leaving your day job. Build clients, build the systems, get the website up, get the software going, outsource whatever you can, your appointment booking, whatever it is, get your paralegal hired and trained up. Only leave the security of your job when you absolutely have to in order to focus on your own business or to scale it.
[00:45:31] So if you are the bottleneck in the business, your time and you can't outsource anything else because you've already done that and you can't automate anything else because you've already done that, you're the only factory that's keeping things where they are, then and only then do you go all in. What I see a lot of people doing, which is a huge mistake is they're like, "I'm quitting. I'm going all in." And then half the day, they're like on Twitter, trying to figure out how to get clients. And then they're setting up payment software and they're running their own books and it's like, "What are you doing? This is someone else's job." Ideally, you are doing so little in your business, you're just doing the fair amount of work. And then when it's like, "Yo, you're keeping yourself on the ground because you have two jobs," and they're both full time then, and only then do you leave your job. Don't leave until you have as good or more of an income than you need to survive. No, it doesn't have to be as good or more of an income than you're earning now. It just has to be good enough to survive. Don't think that you can't leave until you're done with a partner-level salary on your side hustle. That's unlikely.
[00:46:33] Less than six figures at a law firm, not great money for the industry as you know. Seven years, yeah, it might make you a partner with more money, but you're also missing your kids growing up. It's not like you're going to work half as much when you are a partner, you might work twice as much. So do you want to spend seven years — which by the way is a super long time and a job that you might not love? Do you want to wait seven years and then hope things get better? Or do you want to start building things now? What kind of life do you want to have in a decade? What kind of relationship do you want to have with your kids in a decade? What kind of income do you need — not do you want — what kind of income do you need for this? Most people do this backwards. They ask what kind of income they want and then they take whatever relationships, family, kids, whatever, come as a result of the lifestyle that they happen to have at the income level they want. This is a terrible idea.
[00:47:26] Find me, somebody who goes, "You know, I'm making just enough money and I don't want anymore, more money would be bad." Very few people are like that. Most people who would even think of saying anything like that have made a lot of very conscious decisions about where they are in their life and in their business and in their career. You need to decide what kind of income you need for you and your kids. Make that a goal, set your side hustle up to get to that goal, and then and only then should you leave your day job. Don't worry about making a partner, but also I wouldn't toss it to the side. It sounds like you're in a great place to start something. You're not in any place to leave your job currently.
[00:48:02] I don't know. Gabe, am I missing anything?
Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:48:04] No, honestly, I don't even want to chime in because I think you killed it.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:48:07] Hope you all enjoy that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Go back and check out the guests, Blake Mycoskie and Neal Brennan, if you haven't yet. If you want to know how we managed to book all these great guests for the show, it's all about the networking and it's always what we're teaching in Six-Minute Networking. That's a free course over on the Thinkific platform. We talked about it earlier in the show. jordanharbinger.com/course. Dig the well before you get thirsty. You ignore this, you ignore it at your own peril. I mean, I wish I knew this stuff. 20 years ago, jordanharbinger.com/course. A link to the show notes for the episode, with all the links you need. jordanharbinger.com is where that's at. Transcripts also in the show notes. Videos of this show on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. If you want to know what kind of, I don't know, fall-themed shirts, I'm wearing it over the summer here, you can find out on YouTube. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can hit me on LinkedIn.
[00:48:58] This show is created in association with PodcastOne and my amazing team, including Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Sal Cotching, and you, Gabriel Mizrahi. Keep sending in those questions to firstname.lastname@example.org. Our advice and opinions, and those of our guests are their own. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.
[00:49:35] As promised, here's a preview trailer of our interview with Jonathan Haidt.
Jonathan Haidt: [00:49:39] There is a new economy of prestige and in the new economy of prestige enabled by social media on college campuses, the more you call someone out for racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, transphobia, you get a point. Every time you do it, you get a point. So every time you accuse some — it doesn't matter if it's true, it doesn't matter if you destroy them. It doesn't matter. If you call someone out, you get a point. And so you have sub-communities in some universities that are playing this game with horrible, external results for everyone else. But if the leadership stands up against it, they will be accused of all kinds of bigotry and insensitivity, so they almost never do. In a victimhood culture, you get prestige either by being a victim — so you emphasize how much you've been victimized — or by standing up for victims and attacking their oppressors. So when you get those movements who are, especially if they're a lot of white people in those movements, they tend to be doing that vindictive protectiveness thing.
[00:50:36] You're on camera all the time and even if you're not literally on camera, the current generation because they were raised in an age of social media, they self-censor as though they were on camera. And so why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye but you do not notice the log in your own? I mean, come on. You know the ancients and here's Buddhist saying the same thing. It's easy to see, see the faults of others but difficult to see one's own faults. And on campus, we're telling kids, forget thousands of years of wisdom, look at life through the lens of oppression and domination and violence. Everything is against you.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:08] Right. Do the opposite. But you can't teach that book, it might trigger someone.
Jonathan Haidt: [00:51:12] What kind of world would you rather live in? One in which everyone is polite because they're afraid of offending or one in which people will sometimes say things that they think are true, even if they're offensive.
Jordan Harbinger: [00:51:25] For more with Professor Haidt, including how the concepts of safe spaces and trigger warnings are making our society less safe and less prepared for the real world and what we should be doing instead to prepare ourselves and our kids for reality, check out episode 90 right here on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
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